December 9, 2025 • 35 mins
On this episode, we explore the collision of sports culture, high-stakes finance, and the digital frontier. We move past the scoreboard to look at the business of being an athlete in the modern era—from the "identity economy" where virtual skins hold as much weight as vintage sneakers, to the brutal reality of the "Jock Tax" and the pressure to save everyone back home. This conversation redefines what it means to build a legacy, shifting the focus from simply making money to mastering the systems that preserve it.
Features: Kai Bond (Courtside VC) explains the billion-dollar shift in how Gen Z defines ownership; NFL linebacker Jaylon Smith and business manager Michael Edo get real about financial literacy and overcoming the "Savior Complex"; Tyrre Burks (Player's Health) shares how he leveraged athletic resilience to disrupt the insurance industry; and NBA star Terance Mann joins Julian Aikens (W3 Sports) to discuss navigating the volatility of Web3. Tune in for a masterclass on how the discipline of sport translates into the language of equity and innovation.
Follow Will Lucas on Instagram at @willlucas
Learn more at AfroTech.com https://instagram.com/afro.tech
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So particular to let the things you talked about with
thy rowblocks and Fortnite. You know, I have little kids
and for them, you know, they think nothing about spending
real dollars to have dollars in the game, right, And
I wonder what your perspective is on how they will
grow up, you know, being let's say sub twelve, sub
(00:22):
twelve years old. And I don't know if you have
kids or not, but like you study this, so how
how will they grow up in a world? How will
their thinking be structured around value? So is me having.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
A whole twelve foot wall.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Ten foot high full of sneakers and boxes of you know,
old Jordan's. They will have a virtual world of you know,
digital chotch keys, like you know gems that they got
in twenty twenty. You know, it's like, how how will
they think about these things?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
It's a great question. And so we're investors in stock
X out of fun one.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
And if you're a sneakerhead and you've got gicks, you've
been on Goat, you've been on stock X, you don't
see your sneakers as a utility, right, you see them
as a luxury item.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
In what we.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Saw in this last ten years of innovation Internet space,
particularly around a gig economy, in ownership, like the fact
that you would say, yeah, I'm just gonna put my
crip on Airbnb, Like people were.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Crazy when Airbnb came out. People are like, are you insane?
You're gonna stay at strangers? You're gonna let somebody stay
in your crib? Like, Nah, that's not possible, that's not
gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Right, And now it's like, I'd rather stay at Airbnb
in a hotel, right. And so the idea of ownership
is changing rapidly in our society. And again I go back,
is generational change. What was cool for my parents' generation
was a Ford Mustang, a muscle car. Like that was
who you or that representative piece of your identity. This
(02:02):
generation grew up and was like, who cares about a car?
Can take a Uber anywhere. It's gonna cost me less.
I don't have to worry about maintenance and parking and
alternate side. I'll just take Ubers everywhere and it's gonna
cost me less on a monthly basis. So this leads
us to a game native generation. So Fortnite generates two
point one two point three billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
A year selling skins.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
That's their business model.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Why because if you buy an NFL jersey or you
buy a Marvel character jersey to skin your character in
the game, that's the representation to your peer group, no
different than owning that Mustang or having a pair of
Yezis or having a skin in Fortnite.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
So when people talk about.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Oh, I don't believe in NFTs, this stuff is fleeting,
I'm like, you're not in touch with reality. You don't
understand how you view digital assets. You might have no
artwork on your wall. Well guess what I got an
NFT in my virtual world. It's no different. It's the
exact same thing. It represents who you are. It's part
of your identity. And so you know, we're very bullish
(03:11):
on the NFT space, and I think even more so.
Digital has this unique opportunity that we're going to see
a merge in fractional ownership. So in the same way
we had a gig economy, the same way you treated
an asset and you're willing to sell it or lease it,
digital opens up completely new opportunities. And so when you
talk about NFTs, oh, I created an original piece of art.
(03:32):
As an artist, I'm not going to say I did,
and I sell that and now it gets resold for
ten x because there's a smart contract associated with it,
I get a portion of that use that secondary transaction
or the third flip of that item as it goes
up over time. So it unlocks additional value the same
way stock x unlocks value, which is you can buy
(03:53):
a pair of kicks, hold them, flip them, and you're
gonna get the proceeds. Now the artist, the creator, whoever
it is, can actually you know, accrue that value. And
I think that's going to be something lasting in the
ecosystem that really changes the way, you know, art and
assets are monetized over time, and so we're very bullish
on you know, digital art. You know what NFTs mean,
(04:16):
digital ownership over time because again it is just an
item you own that represents your identity. Just because it's
in a virtual world, it doesn't mean it's any less
or more so than the artwork or the kicks.
Speaker 6 (04:29):
That you wear.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
When you you specifically, KAI are looking to invest in gaming,
is it game developers you're particularly looking for? Is it
esports platforms? Is it leagues that you're interested in, like
what's interesting to you that's happening in the space.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, we have a very diversified approach to gaming because
I think you know, people tend to lump gaming into
here's the studio creating a game, right, and we do that.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
We we've certainly invested in you know, a handful of studios.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
We love the idea that you know, to me, gaming
is not that different than somebody who's creating an album
or a movie. Right, You're creating a new piece of work.
You're putting your heart and soul in it, and you
hope somebody loves it, right, And it's a creative endeavor.
And so you know, from our perspective, that's where most
of the money in the ecosystem flows today. So we'll
(05:22):
continue to make investments in that space. We tend to
put the second bucket as what are we investing in
terms of social and community. Esports is part of that.
Right when you look at one of our early investments,
we were early investors in one hundred Thieves. They're an
esports team, but they're really a lifestyle brand, right. You see,
(05:43):
they're making money not only from competing, but they're making
money from march right from content, it's an entertainment in
a brand business and so you know, we'll invest in esports.
We invest in a lot of real money gaming. So
you know, there's a lot of regulatory change going on
in the ecosystem across the US to allow legalized gambling.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
You know, we play at that.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
It's the intersection of sports in gaming, right, It's what
keeps people engaged in the game. Where you might be
watching a three and a half hour game, there's actually
thirty minutes of action. What are you doing during that time?
So we think, you know, prop bets and you know
in game wagering and real time social around sports is
a fascinating area. And then we invest in infrastructure, So
(06:27):
what are the core tech and tools needed in a
new generation of gaming? You know, gaming gets big and
you see outsized returns on investments at the intersection of
a new form of distribution, in a new form of monetization.
See going from a sixty dollars console game, going to
free to play Facebook games where you making micro transactions,
(06:48):
to mobile distribution within that purchases. And now that we're
in a cloud computing era and we're moving into this
you know, monetization framework of.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Play to earn in crypto as part of the.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Currency of the games. This is the moment in time
where you'll see really outsized returns for investments in gaming.
And so we're looking at all aspects of the game
ecosystem and we look for, you know, founders with unique
insights into why the IP they're creating at this moment
in time can leverage the cloud mobile global distribution with
(07:21):
new fundamental economics that not only are allowing users to
spend money in.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
The game, but earn money in those games as well.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
And so that's kind of the broad strokes of how
we look at investing in the gaming ecosystem.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I want you to go a step further, because I
think we see these humongous contracts and we really we think,
you know, hey, you know jayln got this X number deal,
so and so, Russ Russell Wilson got this X number deal.
And we ignorantly and not not not just you know, downplaying,
but we sometimes confuse that to be to assume that
(07:53):
they take that home and so and that, and that's
not true obviously, And I just I just I realized
this a couple of years ago. When you play in
a different state, that state wants to tax you while
you're there, and so can you talk about how the
money gets broken down and you can use simple math.
Do let's just say it's you know, your your salaries.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
A million dollars?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Can you talk about all the things that get taken
out before you see any of that.
Speaker 7 (08:16):
So you you get paid a million dollars on a salary,
you immediately.
Speaker 8 (08:22):
Got to cut that. It has just off from pure taxes.
Speaker 7 (08:26):
And then in the National Football League meet playing in
Dallas for a long time, that was a guarantee eight
games that were taxed exempt. When it comes to no state,
no state income taxes. So based on the teams that
you play for the city, the states that you play in,
like if you play in Nevada, or if you play
(08:47):
at Tennessee, you play in Florida, all these teams have
professional teams. Well, if you play in those states during
that specific week, there's no state income tax.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Now you got games.
Speaker 7 (08:59):
Where you play in Los Angeles and New York. I
played in New York for two years with the Giants,
and you know those are a lot those that percentage
in that tax is increased tremendously. So it's it's unique
with how they do it, but you just got to
understand that whatever you make, you pretty much got to
cut that in half. And then you have to make
(09:20):
sure that your CPAs and your account and your financial
plan is set up correctly, because a lot of guys
get hit on the back end because they didn't pay
their taxes properly. And now you're old even more money,
so it can create It's either you're gonna pay for
it now. Mike talks about it a lot. You're gonna
pay for it now, or you're gonna pay for it later.
(09:41):
It's just about how you want to go about it,
and you know, we encourage going about it the right way.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Can you talk about this, Mike, I want you just
chiming anything that you want to add to Yeah.
Speaker 9 (09:51):
I think the number one reason why athletes go broke
is because of because of the fear of money.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Same same more about that.
Speaker 9 (10:01):
Well, I think it's the same reason that I think
it's the same reason why police police kill black people.
Speaker 10 (10:08):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
You feel you fear what you don't understand.
Speaker 9 (10:12):
Yeah, and so I think that we we we feel
I talk to my clients all the time, I present
opportunities to my guys that it could be a five
x multiple over a four year old.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
It could be whatever.
Speaker 9 (10:26):
And I give it to one of my clients and
they so damn fearful of it and afraid of it
because they don't understand it. It goes back to what
Jalen said about education. The only way you're gonna get
police to stop killing black people is to help them
understand black people, and educating it's the same thing with money.
You gotta be able to educate them so they understand
(10:47):
it so they no longer fear it. So when you
fear it, it's like, well, damn, I fear it. I
don't understand it. I'm just gonna go spend it. I'm
just gonna go waste it and go do this because
I'm fearful. I'm a I'm a I'm a stasher year.
I'm gonna spend it because I don't know how to
multiply it. I don't know how to invest it.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (11:06):
This stuff is so foreign to me. I don't understand
the language. I don't understand any of it. I've never
been taught on it. It's so foreign. So I'm just
going to do the adverse effect of just go spend it.
I know how to do that.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, I want you to because you bring up.
Speaker 8 (11:23):
An interesting a lot a lot of times.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Good.
Speaker 8 (11:26):
Oh sorry, Will. I wanted to add one thing.
Speaker 7 (11:29):
So a lot of us have been playing the game
of football or whatever sport that we're in that we're
that we're in that make it and we make it
to the professional level.
Speaker 8 (11:38):
We've been playing since we were seven years old. So
that's a.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
Minimum of thirteen year experience in diicting myself into learning
about this sport and perfecting my craft in this sport.
Speaker 8 (11:54):
Now become now be I acquire.
Speaker 7 (11:56):
Some money at twenty years old, twenty one years old
with zero knowledge on how to manage, grow and preserve it.
I didn't grow up in my household with a budget,
you know. So that's another It's another layer of dynamic
that we have to think about as well on why
you know, my peers are growing are going broke and.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I want to add more on more because you just
made me think of something. You got a community people
waiting for you to make it so that because you're
the hope.
Speaker 9 (12:31):
But but but the thing about it is in that situation,
this is what wealthy people who are successful investors and
entrepreneurs master formulas and systems, and they know how to
repeat what they do.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 9 (12:48):
They know how to repeat it. So you're earning money,
you're off a plane a game that has an expiration
date on it, so when you got those people waiting
on it. It'd be different if I earn the twenty
million ten million after taxes, after my living expenses, and
after I pay my professional fees, that ten million that
(13:11):
got cut in half by taxes is now eight million
or seven million.
Speaker 11 (13:17):
And now how do I get.
Speaker 9 (13:19):
That money to compound and grow and multiply so that
I just can't take care of my family for a
short bit of time, but I can take care of
them forever. A lot of athletes treat their career earnings
in their career.
Speaker 11 (13:37):
Days like a long vacation.
Speaker 9 (13:40):
It's like a really really good long vacation, but that
vacation gonna come to an end because they haven't learned
how to repeat it and formulate it to where it
just keeps on going.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And Michael, I want you to take this one first,
you know, because I hear stories and you know, I'm
sure you guys may have heard of similar stories where
there's as soon as you get that first check, Jay Lien,
you get that first check in people, your community has
been waiting on you to get it. Everybody's got a
business idea around you. Everybody wants you to become their investor.
Now everybody wants you know, a piece of that check
(14:13):
that you got. How do you, Michael, as an advisor,
both help them vet those opportunities and protect them from
those opportunities because sometimes they may be in such a
relationship with this person who's bringing this idea that it's
hard for them to say no.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Yeah, it's a it's a challenge. It's not easy.
Speaker 9 (14:34):
Because the reprogramming and the the reprogramming and the education
takes a long time, and it varies based on the individual,
you know, based on where they are and what they
come from. And so we don't try to control brothers.
We just try to educate them. We try to protect them,
and we try to help them profit.
Speaker 11 (14:55):
But we're going to try to challenge them, explain things
to them.
Speaker 9 (14:58):
And I think when you're investing the people, fifty percent
of your investment is not the idea for the product,
if it's the individual that's leading it.
Speaker 11 (15:09):
It's the jockey, not the horse.
Speaker 9 (15:11):
So if you have a jockey that you are your
day one and you want to support them, I wouldn't
recommend supporting them by helping them start a business out
the gate the.
Speaker 11 (15:21):
Thing and train for. When you hear the stories of
you know Lebron James and.
Speaker 9 (15:27):
Maverick Carter, the first part of that is that you
heard of Maverick Carter went to go get educated and
did an internship.
Speaker 11 (15:35):
When you hear about David Muger Letter is a great
agent and you know.
Speaker 9 (15:39):
His boys wanted him to go be an agent, he
wouldn't get an internship.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
With a one you got.
Speaker 9 (15:44):
You got to require for the people that you want
to support that they get qualified and what they want
to do. Don't invest in And at what I would
say is this, those kind of plays are passion players.
That's about passion. Is this move about es? This move
about profit? And if it's about profit, we need to
(16:04):
take a different angle. One of the things that Jalen
did so intelligently when he launt his MAI, his Minority
Entrepreneurship Institute, he did that from an impact investing standpoint
where he was able to invest in people for impact,
but he did it through his non for profit, so
those were charitable dollars that he was getting a tax
(16:25):
right off that can still produce a profit, but to
his charitable contribution.
Speaker 11 (16:31):
You got to understand him.
Speaker 9 (16:32):
I doing this for charity or profit, and if you're
doing it solely for profit, you got to look at
it straight like that as business and a lot of
the times for the athletes to have this community waiting
on them, it's an emotional tie have. I got to
be solid, I gotta be loyal. I got to help
people out, which I'm all about. I'm all about elevating
(16:52):
the community and group economics for our people. But we
got to put a system in place to do that appropriately.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
That's yeah, I'm gonna get it to you Jaylin too.
But I want to again put another spin on this
is how do you decide who's a part of your
business circle versus you got to be in You can
be in my personal circle, but you're not touching the
business circle.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
I think.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
You have to.
Speaker 7 (17:20):
You gotta look in the mirror. You got to be
real with yourself, especially with loved ones. You can identify
those A lot of a lot of us athletes suffer
from saviors complex, which is rooted in I do not
want to I do not like being the only one
(17:43):
that made it out of my situation of where I'm
from from my hood, you know, and I had an
older brother.
Speaker 8 (17:49):
I have an older brother who we played in Dallas
for three years together.
Speaker 7 (17:53):
Same mom, same dad, so a little different dynamic, but
still that savior's complex complex exist where I don't like
being the only one out of my out of my
friend group that has a mask over a million dollars,
you know, and a lot of.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
My a lot of my.
Speaker 7 (18:13):
Driving forces of trying to help different individuals that I love.
Speaker 8 (18:21):
Succeed and excel. It's just about finding, Okay, what's.
Speaker 7 (18:25):
The what's this person's talent, what is this person's passion,
and how can I help support them.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
In growing to that.
Speaker 7 (18:34):
Now, some of some of your loved ones just may
not be ready, some of them may not have the desire,
and you just kind of kind of gotta kind of
love them for for who they are and where they
are and keep them in this box. But for those
very few of your loved ones who does desire to
be great in the entrepreneurial space or whatever may have it,
(18:57):
you gotta surround them around people who can educate them
that that grows their mind, grows their mental gives them
the knowledge to where then they can they may be
able to add value in your enterprise. But you gotta
Lebron James. His whole thing with Rich Paul was, I
(19:18):
just want you around me.
Speaker 8 (19:20):
You can.
Speaker 7 (19:20):
We're gonna find what the space is. We're gonna find
what the lane is for you. It's about having the
right people in the right seat, uh, And that's what matter.
But when it comes to family, you gotta have somebody.
You gotta have somebody in your corner who can who
can say no if you don't, if you aren't comfortable
saying no yet, which you'll grow out of that and
you'll you'll learn how to how to say no through time.
(19:41):
But people that you love, you're naturally gonna want to
see them do great things. You just don't want to
jeopardize yourself or your financial freedom or the relationship for
that possible gain until someone has notified you were showed
(20:01):
or proven that okay, they're ready to add value in that.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So your company player's health came in at a time
you started to grow at a time where you know,
safety protocols. Changes in safety protocols and rising insurance costs
is a big conversation and discourse. What gaps in the
market did you see that allowed space for this company?
Speaker 10 (20:29):
So I was actually at the time, I was actually
volunteering on a youth and amateur sports organization here in Minnesota,
and our insurance premiums double. Now, youth organizations, as you
probably know, they don't have a ton of money. You know,
these are nonprofit organizations. And there are a couple of
factors that led to the increase of those costs. One,
(20:52):
the insurance companies were paying out tons in liability lawsuits,
specifically around concussions and abuse. Most of it was abuse,
So your boy Scouts that was a six hundred million
dollar lawsuits. You know, USA Gymnastics a billion dollar lawsuit.
So just those two incidents, loans over one point five
(21:13):
one point six billion dollars was paid out, and the
carriers are sharing that cost. We all have to share
that cost as a risk, and so they're doing some
actuarial analysis that says we now have to charge X
to offset you know what we're paying out. And we
just saw that there were some huge gaps in being
proactive about the risk because prior to those incidents, those
(21:36):
organizations were considered good risk. And the way that insurance
companies used to look at sports organizations where as long
as you haven't had any claims, you're a good risk.
But they had no internal visibility around what was happening
day in and day out to reduce the likelihood that
a USA Gymnastis could happen or Boy Scouts could happen.
(21:57):
And that's the that's the gap that we saw thought
there was a huge need for risk management and visibility
of what was actually happening on the boots on the ground.
And then we want to wincentivize organizations to do the
right thing, and the best way to incentivize them is
to give them discounts on what is their largest expense,
which happens to be insurance. And so when our insurance
(22:18):
premium is doubled, I'm asking our broker, hey, why are
we paying all of this? And he's telling me that
this is happening in the marketplace, and I had this
aha moment around, well, we need to bridge the gap,
provide visibility of risk to our clients, give them tools
to manage it, and then give them affordable insurance when
they do the right things.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
You know, you use the visibility there A couple of
times I think about transparency, which is another way to
say that. And is it more that the insurance companies
don't really know what's happening at practice, at the games etcenta,
or is it that the transparency from what goes into
the insurance premium is not clear to the consumer.
Speaker 10 (23:00):
That's a really good question. Well, the bigger issue specifically
around that is that the carrier is so removed from
the athlete the insurance there's there's there's a broker which
sells the product, and then there's the insurance carrier that
really just access the bank paying the claims. They're there,
they have the contract and they're managing the insurance coverage.
(23:23):
The broker actually has boots on the ground, they're interacting
with the sports organization. They're there as the risk advisor.
But what we've identified is there are a number of
brokers that are just the pedal policies. They're there to
sell an insurance policy, and then when the incidents happen
because brokers they're not they're not penalized if there is
(23:45):
a claim. They only get paid when they sell a policy,
so they're not incentivized to ensure that organizations are implementing
these policies and protocols. And I think that's the different
business model that we have and that we've take making
a more comprehensive approach around how we sell the insurance
because we are a broker, but we are also a market.
(24:08):
We underwrite and price our own risk, and we have
our own insurance capacity that we have to protect, so
we have the same responsibility as a carrier to make
sure that we're not pan out a lot of claims.
And we also are broker and we have boots on
the ground to work with these organizations day in and
day out.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
What unique value did your background as an athlete give
you when you started this business.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Honestly, it got me in the room.
Speaker 10 (24:34):
Like when I first started the company, I really I
didn't know anything about business.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
Honestly.
Speaker 10 (24:41):
I came fresh from playing football and I was just
all passion. I had this idea to create safe spaces
for kids to play sports. It was really simple and
injuries because I had so many injuries. I'm like, you
know what, we need to create a documentation system and
a policy and protocol about how we manage injury youth athletes.
(25:01):
That was the simple version of what we were thinking
about doing. And I was able to get into rooms
that you wouldn't normally be able to get into. You know,
I was talking with you know, the chief Medical officer
or the NFL. You know, I got a chance to
get a ton of insight from executives in sports and
athletic directors at universities and high schools and other organizations
(25:24):
because I was a professional athlete and because I can
talk to Lango and all of those other pieces. So
it got me. It gave me a huge opportunity to
get in the door. But it also gave me the
resilience on the thousands of know's that I would get,
you know, to you know, to keep fighting and keep
making this thing happen when it got tough.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Also, I mean ask a different question with that same foundation,
is like when you started talking to investors, you know,
they saw an athlete who's like ready, all passion, you know,
pit Bull, China Shop, I'm just ready to go, let's go.
Like what makes them write the check when they see
just the passion? But to your point, not a whole
lot of professional experience.
Speaker 10 (26:05):
Yeah, that's a super Honestly, in the beginning, I can't
tell you. I think people just saw my commitment in
the beginning. I've always been a hustler. I wear my
heart on my sleeves. So when I do something, I'm committed,
and I think people feel that when they come in
contact with me. And so my first introduct, my first
(26:26):
investor was my agent. He was my sports agent. So
these are people that knew me. They knew how committed
I was. He knew that, you know, I wasn't a
big name athlete. I used to pay to go to tryouts,
you know where there's three four hundred guys and I'm
the last guy there, you know, making the team.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
And so he believed in me.
Speaker 10 (26:46):
And he was my first investor, you know, and the
first other call it big investors that I had.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Really, I think a lot of them just I didn't
take the first no personal.
Speaker 10 (26:57):
Most of the time I talk with investor that the
first time, it was like, yeah, we'll talk in six months.
But I always followed up. My follow up game was strong.
And then every time I followed up everything I told
him I was going to do. At the time I
met him I had done, and so I think that
that helped me, you know, get get in the door,
so to speak, because I was consistent with my message
(27:20):
and I held myself accountable to to be who I said.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
I was going to be.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
You know, I like what you just said about Terrence
learning in public and Terrence. I'm asked you because I
read something that where you were quoted as saying hearing
that Staples turned into crypto arena like definitely opened my
eyes to what's going on in this space, is that
it's going to be huge eventually, and it definitely helped
me realize that I have to get involved and get
people who look like me on the wave. And so
(27:47):
it sounds like you didn't just dip your toe into
the water of crypto and Web three, but like.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
You went all in.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
So if you can tell me about it's like some
of the ways you began to educate yourself with regardings
what regarding Web three.
Speaker 12 (28:02):
I think just through you know, Julian and his team
and my team just collaborating, having a whole bunch of
conversations around the space before even getting all the way
into it. And then obviously, you know, when I went
to the NFT NFTs events in New York.
Speaker 13 (28:18):
That really opened my eyes to where I got to
see how.
Speaker 12 (28:21):
Big, you know a space it is and it's gonna be,
how many people are involved, and you know, all the
different things going on. So you know, just jumping right
into it and just seeing it for myself going to
New York and everything really helped me out and and
it brought me here.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Do you which part of the web three conversation particularly
interested you? If you're talking about tokens on one end,
you're talking about the metaverse one another hand, you talking
about NFTs, like, which what particularly interested you?
Speaker 13 (28:48):
I think for me? I think for me it's a
metaverse as a whole.
Speaker 12 (28:52):
Just you know, growing up playing video games as much
as I did, it really gave me that that type
of feel you know that almost that have a granted
flatto field, you know, where people are creating their own stuff,
having their own type of vibe on their playing.
Speaker 13 (29:06):
Different sorts of games.
Speaker 12 (29:07):
When in tokens, whening, you know, exchanging real you know,
crypto money on there, just the whole whole vibely you know,
tracting me just from me being a gamer growing up,
and this is this is.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
One for both of you, guys. I'm super interested in
the benefits of having an athletic background. So I think about,
you know, when you're coming up as an athlete, you've
got a couple and one maybe you've got a coach
who's there for your development, and then you have, you know,
the camaraderie, you have a team environment, and those all
(29:39):
help to build character even outside of.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
The field, off of the court.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Like, what would you say are some of the things
that sports equipped you with outside of you know, the
ones I just mentioned to helping you find business success?
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Myself, I would say understanding the grind.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
And when I say the grind, when you're playing and
you're achieving in any any skill or any type of
job and you reach that one percent, which obviously the
NBA is. But even if you play Division two like
I did, you're gonna go through tough times. You know,
as as we see now with the economy, almost every
business out there is cognizant of what's going on in
regards to the economic downturn that we're looking at here.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Same things are going to happen in business.
Speaker 6 (30:25):
You're gonna have your ebbs and flows, You're gonna have
great moments, You're also are going to have your very
low moments. But I think playing sports and also being
a leader, specifically in basketball, you're very used to, hey,
we might be down fifteen, but there's twenty minutes left
on the you know, obviously on the clock.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Here.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
That being said, you're able to identify what you need
to do personally to win, and if you're a leader,
you're also able to identify what you need from everyone
around you and how to bring it out of them.
Same thing in business, obviously, the motivation is a little
bit different. People have families, people are working for financial gain,
things of that nature. But within sports you learn how
through you know, obviously they kind of like going through
(30:59):
hell that the only ways through. And that's something that
I've seen in business that's been really really helpful for me.
And then obviously starting a career, any industry, any any
any skill that you you want to continue to learn.
At first, you know you're going to go out there,
you can barely make a layup, but you might look
back twenty years later planning for the Clippers.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
So you know, you're also very very aware that you
have to start somewhere.
Speaker 13 (31:21):
What would you say too, yeah, I think for me,
you know, other than the grind. You know, that's a
great one. I can relate to that for sure, But
I think just everybody.
Speaker 12 (31:30):
Kind of knowing their role and knowing what they bring
to the table, and just being on so many different
teams that I've been on, you know, being in college
for four years now going into my fourth year in
the NBA, just all the different teammates I had, just learning,
you know, learning about your team.
Speaker 13 (31:45):
And learning about what everybody can bring.
Speaker 12 (31:48):
Kind of have an understanding of your team and what
you can bring, who's who can lead, you know, who
needs to follow, different type of sorts of things like
that definitely go directly hand in hand with business. And
that's while we've been able to, you know, kind of
do what we've been doing because we understand that everybody's
been grinding.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
And yeah, so Julian, like I think about this because
as you mentioned a couple of things that actually both
of you guys talked about this. So any either one
if you can chime in, But I'll ask Julian to first,
is you know Crypto's not performing well right now. The
tokens is we're down in the moment. How do you
both and Julian and go first on this. How do
you manage when you're building something based on blockchain technology
(32:31):
and so you're betting on long the long term here
and so when you have these wild swings like we
have right now, how are you managing the ups and
downs of crypto mentally and in your business?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
You just got to be cognizant of of of the
waves that are to common. Obviously prepare for them.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
That being said, you know, with crypto going up and down,
one thing I always like to spread, especially you know
with people that look like us, is you need to
have leverage. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
That being said, you need to make sure you're diversified
where your money is. So crypto being down, I'm also
invested on the things that benefit by that, But looking
at it from a holistic perspective.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
It really makes it boil down.
Speaker 13 (33:14):
So what are you here for?
Speaker 6 (33:16):
You know, specifically with myself and Terrence and Mellow our
other partner, we haven't asked a dollar from anyone in
regards to any NFTs in the crypto space. You know,
we haven't done anything to say, hey, this is Terrence man,
this is a celebrity. This is why we want you
to go and buy this project. That's not really what
we're looking to do here. We're looking to draw on awareness.
And I think something that you had mentioned I watched
(33:37):
a couple of year podcasts was really talking about the
black experience and culture being at the foundation of all
of these apps. And I work in tech and I'm
around NBA players a lot, and I always try to
bring that awareness that, hey, everything that we're utilizing, no
matter what appened, is somebody created this. And I take
a look at the NBA guys, I know THEA, the
NFL guys, I know the w NBA players, and I
(33:57):
take a look back at how many people I know
and just how many slots are in those leagues. And
I want to kind of put that attention to say, hey,
even in crypto, when it's down, things aren't going well,
things are not, you know, soaring in terms of evaluations,
We're still continuing to build because our mission doesn't change
whether Ethereum is fifteen hundred dollars or four thousand dollars.
We're still going to continue to do the same things.
(34:19):
And we started doing that when it was high. When
it's low.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
We're not going to change, so the mission remains the same.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
What did you say, Terrence, how are you managing these waves?
Speaker 5 (34:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 12 (34:30):
I mean, like he said, it's going to be ups
and downs, and you know, I think, I think just
the conversation around it, you know, I think we need
to keep the conversation going, you know, keep having people
talk about it, you know, just so people can see
that it's a thing and it's there that people are
because I think, you know, that's the thing about it.
Speaker 13 (34:48):
Right now, a lot of people are like, no, I
don't see nothing happening. It's going down. They just hear say,
you know, he says, she say, so.
Speaker 12 (34:55):
I think just asking questions and learning more about it,
educate yourself on it, and just keep the common stations going,
So particular to let the things you talked about with
thy rowblocks and Fortnite. You know, I have little kids
and for them, you know, they think nothing about spending
real dollars to have dollars in the game, right, And
I wonder what your perspective is on how they will
grow up, you know, being let's say sub twelve, sub
(00:22):
twelve years old. And I don't know if you have
kids or not, but like you study this, so how
how will they grow up in a world? How will
their thinking be structured around value? So is me having.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
A whole twelve foot wall.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Ten foot high full of sneakers and boxes of you know,
old Jordan's. They will have a virtual world of you know,
digital chotch keys, like you know gems that they got
in twenty twenty. You know, it's like, how how will
they think about these things?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
It's a great question. And so we're investors in stock
X out of fun one.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
And if you're a sneakerhead and you've got gicks, you've
been on Goat, you've been on stock X, you don't
see your sneakers as a utility, right, you see them
as a luxury item.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
In what we.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Saw in this last ten years of innovation Internet space,
particularly around a gig economy, in ownership, like the fact
that you would say, yeah, I'm just gonna put my
crip on Airbnb, Like people were.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Crazy when Airbnb came out. People are like, are you insane?
You're gonna stay at strangers? You're gonna let somebody stay
in your crib? Like, Nah, that's not possible, that's not
gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Right, And now it's like, I'd rather stay at Airbnb
in a hotel, right. And so the idea of ownership
is changing rapidly in our society. And again I go back,
is generational change. What was cool for my parents' generation
was a Ford Mustang, a muscle car. Like that was
who you or that representative piece of your identity. This
(02:02):
generation grew up and was like, who cares about a car?
Can take a Uber anywhere. It's gonna cost me less.
I don't have to worry about maintenance and parking and
alternate side. I'll just take Ubers everywhere and it's gonna
cost me less on a monthly basis. So this leads
us to a game native generation. So Fortnite generates two
point one two point three billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
A year selling skins.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
That's their business model.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Why because if you buy an NFL jersey or you
buy a Marvel character jersey to skin your character in
the game, that's the representation to your peer group, no
different than owning that Mustang or having a pair of
Yezis or having a skin in Fortnite.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
So when people talk about.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Oh, I don't believe in NFTs, this stuff is fleeting,
I'm like, you're not in touch with reality. You don't
understand how you view digital assets. You might have no
artwork on your wall. Well guess what I got an
NFT in my virtual world. It's no different. It's the
exact same thing. It represents who you are. It's part
of your identity. And so you know, we're very bullish
(03:11):
on the NFT space, and I think even more so.
Digital has this unique opportunity that we're going to see
a merge in fractional ownership. So in the same way
we had a gig economy, the same way you treated
an asset and you're willing to sell it or lease it,
digital opens up completely new opportunities. And so when you
talk about NFTs, oh, I created an original piece of art.
(03:32):
As an artist, I'm not going to say I did,
and I sell that and now it gets resold for
ten x because there's a smart contract associated with it,
I get a portion of that use that secondary transaction
or the third flip of that item as it goes
up over time. So it unlocks additional value the same
way stock x unlocks value, which is you can buy
(03:53):
a pair of kicks, hold them, flip them, and you're
gonna get the proceeds. Now the artist, the creator, whoever
it is, can actually you know, accrue that value. And
I think that's going to be something lasting in the
ecosystem that really changes the way, you know, art and
assets are monetized over time, and so we're very bullish
on you know, digital art. You know what NFTs mean,
(04:16):
digital ownership over time because again it is just an
item you own that represents your identity. Just because it's
in a virtual world, it doesn't mean it's any less
or more so than the artwork or the kicks.
Speaker 6 (04:29):
That you wear.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
When you you specifically, KAI are looking to invest in gaming,
is it game developers you're particularly looking for? Is it
esports platforms? Is it leagues that you're interested in, like
what's interesting to you that's happening in the space.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, we have a very diversified approach to gaming because
I think you know, people tend to lump gaming into
here's the studio creating a game, right, and we do that.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
We we've certainly invested in you know, a handful of studios.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
We love the idea that you know, to me, gaming
is not that different than somebody who's creating an album
or a movie. Right, You're creating a new piece of work.
You're putting your heart and soul in it, and you
hope somebody loves it, right, And it's a creative endeavor.
And so you know, from our perspective, that's where most
of the money in the ecosystem flows today. So we'll
(05:22):
continue to make investments in that space. We tend to
put the second bucket as what are we investing in
terms of social and community. Esports is part of that.
Right when you look at one of our early investments,
we were early investors in one hundred Thieves. They're an
esports team, but they're really a lifestyle brand, right. You see,
(05:43):
they're making money not only from competing, but they're making
money from march right from content, it's an entertainment in
a brand business and so you know, we'll invest in esports.
We invest in a lot of real money gaming. So
you know, there's a lot of regulatory change going on
in the ecosystem across the US to allow legalized gambling.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
You know, we play at that.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
It's the intersection of sports in gaming, right, It's what
keeps people engaged in the game. Where you might be
watching a three and a half hour game, there's actually
thirty minutes of action. What are you doing during that time?
So we think, you know, prop bets and you know
in game wagering and real time social around sports is
a fascinating area. And then we invest in infrastructure, So
(06:27):
what are the core tech and tools needed in a
new generation of gaming? You know, gaming gets big and
you see outsized returns on investments at the intersection of
a new form of distribution, in a new form of monetization.
See going from a sixty dollars console game, going to
free to play Facebook games where you making micro transactions,
(06:48):
to mobile distribution within that purchases. And now that we're
in a cloud computing era and we're moving into this
you know, monetization framework of.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Play to earn in crypto as part of the.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Currency of the games. This is the moment in time
where you'll see really outsized returns for investments in gaming.
And so we're looking at all aspects of the game
ecosystem and we look for, you know, founders with unique
insights into why the IP they're creating at this moment
in time can leverage the cloud mobile global distribution with
(07:21):
new fundamental economics that not only are allowing users to
spend money in.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
The game, but earn money in those games as well.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
And so that's kind of the broad strokes of how
we look at investing in the gaming ecosystem.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I want you to go a step further, because I
think we see these humongous contracts and we really we think,
you know, hey, you know jayln got this X number deal,
so and so, Russ Russell Wilson got this X number deal.
And we ignorantly and not not not just you know, downplaying,
but we sometimes confuse that to be to assume that
(07:53):
they take that home and so and that, and that's
not true obviously, And I just I just I realized
this a couple of years ago. When you play in
a different state, that state wants to tax you while
you're there, and so can you talk about how the
money gets broken down and you can use simple math.
Do let's just say it's you know, your your salaries.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
A million dollars?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Can you talk about all the things that get taken
out before you see any of that.
Speaker 7 (08:16):
So you you get paid a million dollars on a salary,
you immediately.
Speaker 8 (08:22):
Got to cut that. It has just off from pure taxes.
Speaker 7 (08:26):
And then in the National Football League meet playing in
Dallas for a long time, that was a guarantee eight
games that were taxed exempt. When it comes to no state,
no state income taxes. So based on the teams that
you play for the city, the states that you play in,
like if you play in Nevada, or if you play
(08:47):
at Tennessee, you play in Florida, all these teams have
professional teams. Well, if you play in those states during
that specific week, there's no state income tax.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Now you got games.
Speaker 7 (08:59):
Where you play in Los Angeles and New York. I
played in New York for two years with the Giants,
and you know those are a lot those that percentage
in that tax is increased tremendously. So it's it's unique
with how they do it, but you just got to
understand that whatever you make, you pretty much got to
cut that in half. And then you have to make
(09:20):
sure that your CPAs and your account and your financial
plan is set up correctly, because a lot of guys
get hit on the back end because they didn't pay
their taxes properly. And now you're old even more money,
so it can create It's either you're gonna pay for
it now. Mike talks about it a lot. You're gonna
pay for it now, or you're gonna pay for it later.
(09:41):
It's just about how you want to go about it,
and you know, we encourage going about it the right way.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Can you talk about this, Mike, I want you just
chiming anything that you want to add to Yeah.
Speaker 9 (09:51):
I think the number one reason why athletes go broke
is because of because of the fear of money.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Same same more about that.
Speaker 9 (10:01):
Well, I think it's the same reason that I think
it's the same reason why police police kill black people.
Speaker 10 (10:08):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
You feel you fear what you don't understand.
Speaker 9 (10:12):
Yeah, and so I think that we we we feel
I talk to my clients all the time, I present
opportunities to my guys that it could be a five
x multiple over a four year old.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
It could be whatever.
Speaker 9 (10:26):
And I give it to one of my clients and
they so damn fearful of it and afraid of it
because they don't understand it. It goes back to what
Jalen said about education. The only way you're gonna get
police to stop killing black people is to help them
understand black people, and educating it's the same thing with money.
You gotta be able to educate them so they understand
(10:47):
it so they no longer fear it. So when you
fear it, it's like, well, damn, I fear it. I
don't understand it. I'm just gonna go spend it. I'm
just gonna go waste it and go do this because
I'm fearful. I'm a I'm a I'm a stasher year.
I'm gonna spend it because I don't know how to
multiply it. I don't know how to invest it.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (11:06):
This stuff is so foreign to me. I don't understand
the language. I don't understand any of it. I've never
been taught on it. It's so foreign. So I'm just
going to do the adverse effect of just go spend it.
I know how to do that.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, I want you to because you bring up.
Speaker 8 (11:23):
An interesting a lot a lot of times.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Good.
Speaker 8 (11:26):
Oh sorry, Will. I wanted to add one thing.
Speaker 7 (11:29):
So a lot of us have been playing the game
of football or whatever sport that we're in that we're
that we're in that make it and we make it
to the professional level.
Speaker 8 (11:38):
We've been playing since we were seven years old. So
that's a.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
Minimum of thirteen year experience in diicting myself into learning
about this sport and perfecting my craft in this sport.
Speaker 8 (11:54):
Now become now be I acquire.
Speaker 7 (11:56):
Some money at twenty years old, twenty one years old
with zero knowledge on how to manage, grow and preserve it.
I didn't grow up in my household with a budget,
you know. So that's another It's another layer of dynamic
that we have to think about as well on why
you know, my peers are growing are going broke and.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I want to add more on more because you just
made me think of something. You got a community people
waiting for you to make it so that because you're
the hope.
Speaker 9 (12:31):
But but but the thing about it is in that situation,
this is what wealthy people who are successful investors and
entrepreneurs master formulas and systems, and they know how to
repeat what they do.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 9 (12:48):
They know how to repeat it. So you're earning money,
you're off a plane a game that has an expiration
date on it, so when you got those people waiting
on it. It'd be different if I earn the twenty
million ten million after taxes, after my living expenses, and
after I pay my professional fees, that ten million that
(13:11):
got cut in half by taxes is now eight million
or seven million.
Speaker 11 (13:17):
And now how do I get.
Speaker 9 (13:19):
That money to compound and grow and multiply so that
I just can't take care of my family for a
short bit of time, but I can take care of
them forever. A lot of athletes treat their career earnings
in their career.
Speaker 11 (13:37):
Days like a long vacation.
Speaker 9 (13:40):
It's like a really really good long vacation, but that
vacation gonna come to an end because they haven't learned
how to repeat it and formulate it to where it
just keeps on going.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And Michael, I want you to take this one first,
you know, because I hear stories and you know, I'm
sure you guys may have heard of similar stories where
there's as soon as you get that first check, Jay Lien,
you get that first check in people, your community has
been waiting on you to get it. Everybody's got a
business idea around you. Everybody wants you to become their investor.
Now everybody wants you know, a piece of that check
(14:13):
that you got. How do you, Michael, as an advisor,
both help them vet those opportunities and protect them from
those opportunities because sometimes they may be in such a
relationship with this person who's bringing this idea that it's
hard for them to say no.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Yeah, it's a it's a challenge. It's not easy.
Speaker 9 (14:34):
Because the reprogramming and the the reprogramming and the education
takes a long time, and it varies based on the individual,
you know, based on where they are and what they
come from. And so we don't try to control brothers.
We just try to educate them. We try to protect them,
and we try to help them profit.
Speaker 11 (14:55):
But we're going to try to challenge them, explain things
to them.
Speaker 9 (14:58):
And I think when you're investing the people, fifty percent
of your investment is not the idea for the product,
if it's the individual that's leading it.
Speaker 11 (15:09):
It's the jockey, not the horse.
Speaker 9 (15:11):
So if you have a jockey that you are your
day one and you want to support them, I wouldn't
recommend supporting them by helping them start a business out
the gate the.
Speaker 11 (15:21):
Thing and train for. When you hear the stories of
you know Lebron James and.
Speaker 9 (15:27):
Maverick Carter, the first part of that is that you
heard of Maverick Carter went to go get educated and
did an internship.
Speaker 11 (15:35):
When you hear about David Muger Letter is a great
agent and you know.
Speaker 9 (15:39):
His boys wanted him to go be an agent, he
wouldn't get an internship.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
With a one you got.
Speaker 9 (15:44):
You got to require for the people that you want
to support that they get qualified and what they want
to do. Don't invest in And at what I would
say is this, those kind of plays are passion players.
That's about passion. Is this move about es? This move
about profit? And if it's about profit, we need to
(16:04):
take a different angle. One of the things that Jalen
did so intelligently when he launt his MAI, his Minority
Entrepreneurship Institute, he did that from an impact investing standpoint
where he was able to invest in people for impact,
but he did it through his non for profit, so
those were charitable dollars that he was getting a tax
(16:25):
right off that can still produce a profit, but to
his charitable contribution.
Speaker 11 (16:31):
You got to understand him.
Speaker 9 (16:32):
I doing this for charity or profit, and if you're
doing it solely for profit, you got to look at
it straight like that as business and a lot of
the times for the athletes to have this community waiting
on them, it's an emotional tie have. I got to
be solid, I gotta be loyal. I got to help
people out, which I'm all about. I'm all about elevating
(16:52):
the community and group economics for our people. But we
got to put a system in place to do that appropriately.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
That's yeah, I'm gonna get it to you Jaylin too.
But I want to again put another spin on this
is how do you decide who's a part of your
business circle versus you got to be in You can
be in my personal circle, but you're not touching the
business circle.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
I think.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
You have to.
Speaker 7 (17:20):
You gotta look in the mirror. You got to be
real with yourself, especially with loved ones. You can identify
those A lot of a lot of us athletes suffer
from saviors complex, which is rooted in I do not
want to I do not like being the only one
(17:43):
that made it out of my situation of where I'm
from from my hood, you know, and I had an
older brother.
Speaker 8 (17:49):
I have an older brother who we played in Dallas
for three years together.
Speaker 7 (17:53):
Same mom, same dad, so a little different dynamic, but
still that savior's complex complex exist where I don't like
being the only one out of my out of my
friend group that has a mask over a million dollars,
you know, and a lot of.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
My a lot of my.
Speaker 7 (18:13):
Driving forces of trying to help different individuals that I love.
Speaker 8 (18:21):
Succeed and excel. It's just about finding, Okay, what's.
Speaker 7 (18:25):
The what's this person's talent, what is this person's passion,
and how can I help support them.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
In growing to that.
Speaker 7 (18:34):
Now, some of some of your loved ones just may
not be ready, some of them may not have the desire,
and you just kind of kind of gotta kind of
love them for for who they are and where they
are and keep them in this box. But for those
very few of your loved ones who does desire to
be great in the entrepreneurial space or whatever may have it,
(18:57):
you gotta surround them around people who can educate them
that that grows their mind, grows their mental gives them
the knowledge to where then they can they may be
able to add value in your enterprise. But you gotta
Lebron James. His whole thing with Rich Paul was, I
(19:18):
just want you around me.
Speaker 8 (19:20):
You can.
Speaker 7 (19:20):
We're gonna find what the space is. We're gonna find
what the lane is for you. It's about having the
right people in the right seat, uh, And that's what matter.
But when it comes to family, you gotta have somebody.
You gotta have somebody in your corner who can who
can say no if you don't, if you aren't comfortable
saying no yet, which you'll grow out of that and
you'll you'll learn how to how to say no through time.
(19:41):
But people that you love, you're naturally gonna want to
see them do great things. You just don't want to
jeopardize yourself or your financial freedom or the relationship for
that possible gain until someone has notified you were showed
(20:01):
or proven that okay, they're ready to add value in that.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So your company player's health came in at a time
you started to grow at a time where you know,
safety protocols. Changes in safety protocols and rising insurance costs
is a big conversation and discourse. What gaps in the
market did you see that allowed space for this company?
Speaker 10 (20:29):
So I was actually at the time, I was actually
volunteering on a youth and amateur sports organization here in Minnesota,
and our insurance premiums double. Now, youth organizations, as you
probably know, they don't have a ton of money. You know,
these are nonprofit organizations. And there are a couple of
factors that led to the increase of those costs. One,
(20:52):
the insurance companies were paying out tons in liability lawsuits,
specifically around concussions and abuse. Most of it was abuse,
So your boy Scouts that was a six hundred million
dollar lawsuits. You know, USA Gymnastics a billion dollar lawsuit.
So just those two incidents, loans over one point five
(21:13):
one point six billion dollars was paid out, and the
carriers are sharing that cost. We all have to share
that cost as a risk, and so they're doing some
actuarial analysis that says we now have to charge X
to offset you know what we're paying out. And we
just saw that there were some huge gaps in being
proactive about the risk because prior to those incidents, those
(21:36):
organizations were considered good risk. And the way that insurance
companies used to look at sports organizations where as long
as you haven't had any claims, you're a good risk.
But they had no internal visibility around what was happening
day in and day out to reduce the likelihood that
a USA Gymnastis could happen or Boy Scouts could happen.
(21:57):
And that's the that's the gap that we saw thought
there was a huge need for risk management and visibility
of what was actually happening on the boots on the ground.
And then we want to wincentivize organizations to do the
right thing, and the best way to incentivize them is
to give them discounts on what is their largest expense,
which happens to be insurance. And so when our insurance
(22:18):
premium is doubled, I'm asking our broker, hey, why are
we paying all of this? And he's telling me that
this is happening in the marketplace, and I had this
aha moment around, well, we need to bridge the gap,
provide visibility of risk to our clients, give them tools
to manage it, and then give them affordable insurance when
they do the right things.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
You know, you use the visibility there A couple of
times I think about transparency, which is another way to
say that. And is it more that the insurance companies
don't really know what's happening at practice, at the games etcenta,
or is it that the transparency from what goes into
the insurance premium is not clear to the consumer.
Speaker 10 (23:00):
That's a really good question. Well, the bigger issue specifically
around that is that the carrier is so removed from
the athlete the insurance there's there's there's a broker which
sells the product, and then there's the insurance carrier that
really just access the bank paying the claims. They're there,
they have the contract and they're managing the insurance coverage.
(23:23):
The broker actually has boots on the ground, they're interacting
with the sports organization. They're there as the risk advisor.
But what we've identified is there are a number of
brokers that are just the pedal policies. They're there to
sell an insurance policy, and then when the incidents happen
because brokers they're not they're not penalized if there is
(23:45):
a claim. They only get paid when they sell a policy,
so they're not incentivized to ensure that organizations are implementing
these policies and protocols. And I think that's the different
business model that we have and that we've take making
a more comprehensive approach around how we sell the insurance
because we are a broker, but we are also a market.
(24:08):
We underwrite and price our own risk, and we have
our own insurance capacity that we have to protect, so
we have the same responsibility as a carrier to make
sure that we're not pan out a lot of claims.
And we also are broker and we have boots on
the ground to work with these organizations day in and
day out.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
What unique value did your background as an athlete give
you when you started this business.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Honestly, it got me in the room.
Speaker 10 (24:34):
Like when I first started the company, I really I
didn't know anything about business.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
Honestly.
Speaker 10 (24:41):
I came fresh from playing football and I was just
all passion. I had this idea to create safe spaces
for kids to play sports. It was really simple and
injuries because I had so many injuries. I'm like, you
know what, we need to create a documentation system and
a policy and protocol about how we manage injury youth athletes.
(25:01):
That was the simple version of what we were thinking
about doing. And I was able to get into rooms
that you wouldn't normally be able to get into. You know,
I was talking with you know, the chief Medical officer
or the NFL. You know, I got a chance to
get a ton of insight from executives in sports and
athletic directors at universities and high schools and other organizations
(25:24):
because I was a professional athlete and because I can
talk to Lango and all of those other pieces. So
it got me. It gave me a huge opportunity to
get in the door. But it also gave me the
resilience on the thousands of know's that I would get,
you know, to you know, to keep fighting and keep
making this thing happen when it got tough.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Also, I mean ask a different question with that same foundation,
is like when you started talking to investors, you know,
they saw an athlete who's like ready, all passion, you know,
pit Bull, China Shop, I'm just ready to go, let's go.
Like what makes them write the check when they see
just the passion? But to your point, not a whole
lot of professional experience.
Speaker 10 (26:05):
Yeah, that's a super Honestly, in the beginning, I can't
tell you. I think people just saw my commitment in
the beginning. I've always been a hustler. I wear my
heart on my sleeves. So when I do something, I'm committed,
and I think people feel that when they come in
contact with me. And so my first introduct, my first
(26:26):
investor was my agent. He was my sports agent. So
these are people that knew me. They knew how committed
I was. He knew that, you know, I wasn't a
big name athlete. I used to pay to go to tryouts,
you know where there's three four hundred guys and I'm
the last guy there, you know, making the team.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
And so he believed in me.
Speaker 10 (26:46):
And he was my first investor, you know, and the
first other call it big investors that I had.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Really, I think a lot of them just I didn't
take the first no personal.
Speaker 10 (26:57):
Most of the time I talk with investor that the
first time, it was like, yeah, we'll talk in six months.
But I always followed up. My follow up game was strong.
And then every time I followed up everything I told
him I was going to do. At the time I
met him I had done, and so I think that
that helped me, you know, get get in the door,
so to speak, because I was consistent with my message
(27:20):
and I held myself accountable to to be who I said.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
I was going to be.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
You know, I like what you just said about Terrence
learning in public and Terrence. I'm asked you because I
read something that where you were quoted as saying hearing
that Staples turned into crypto arena like definitely opened my
eyes to what's going on in this space, is that
it's going to be huge eventually, and it definitely helped
me realize that I have to get involved and get
people who look like me on the wave. And so
(27:47):
it sounds like you didn't just dip your toe into
the water of crypto and Web three, but like.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
You went all in.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
So if you can tell me about it's like some
of the ways you began to educate yourself with regardings
what regarding Web three.
Speaker 12 (28:02):
I think just through you know, Julian and his team
and my team just collaborating, having a whole bunch of
conversations around the space before even getting all the way
into it. And then obviously, you know, when I went
to the NFT NFTs events in New York.
Speaker 13 (28:18):
That really opened my eyes to where I got to
see how.
Speaker 12 (28:21):
Big, you know a space it is and it's gonna be,
how many people are involved, and you know, all the
different things going on. So you know, just jumping right
into it and just seeing it for myself going to
New York and everything really helped me out and and
it brought me here.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Do you which part of the web three conversation particularly
interested you? If you're talking about tokens on one end,
you're talking about the metaverse one another hand, you talking
about NFTs, like, which what particularly interested you?
Speaker 13 (28:48):
I think for me? I think for me it's a
metaverse as a whole.
Speaker 12 (28:52):
Just you know, growing up playing video games as much
as I did, it really gave me that that type
of feel you know that almost that have a granted
flatto field, you know, where people are creating their own stuff,
having their own type of vibe on their playing.
Speaker 13 (29:06):
Different sorts of games.
Speaker 12 (29:07):
When in tokens, whening, you know, exchanging real you know,
crypto money on there, just the whole whole vibely you know,
tracting me just from me being a gamer growing up,
and this is this is.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
One for both of you, guys. I'm super interested in
the benefits of having an athletic background. So I think about,
you know, when you're coming up as an athlete, you've
got a couple and one maybe you've got a coach
who's there for your development, and then you have, you know,
the camaraderie, you have a team environment, and those all
(29:39):
help to build character even outside of.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
The field, off of the court.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Like, what would you say are some of the things
that sports equipped you with outside of you know, the
ones I just mentioned to helping you find business success?
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Myself, I would say understanding the grind.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
And when I say the grind, when you're playing and
you're achieving in any any skill or any type of
job and you reach that one percent, which obviously the
NBA is. But even if you play Division two like
I did, you're gonna go through tough times. You know,
as as we see now with the economy, almost every
business out there is cognizant of what's going on in
regards to the economic downturn that we're looking at here.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Same things are going to happen in business.
Speaker 6 (30:25):
You're gonna have your ebbs and flows, You're gonna have
great moments, You're also are going to have your very
low moments. But I think playing sports and also being
a leader, specifically in basketball, you're very used to, hey,
we might be down fifteen, but there's twenty minutes left
on the you know, obviously on the clock.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Here.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
That being said, you're able to identify what you need
to do personally to win, and if you're a leader,
you're also able to identify what you need from everyone
around you and how to bring it out of them.
Same thing in business, obviously, the motivation is a little
bit different. People have families, people are working for financial gain,
things of that nature. But within sports you learn how
through you know, obviously they kind of like going through
(30:59):
hell that the only ways through. And that's something that
I've seen in business that's been really really helpful for me.
And then obviously starting a career, any industry, any any
any skill that you you want to continue to learn.
At first, you know you're going to go out there,
you can barely make a layup, but you might look
back twenty years later planning for the Clippers.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
So you know, you're also very very aware that you
have to start somewhere.
Speaker 13 (31:21):
What would you say too, yeah, I think for me,
you know, other than the grind. You know, that's a
great one. I can relate to that for sure, But
I think just everybody.
Speaker 12 (31:30):
Kind of knowing their role and knowing what they bring
to the table, and just being on so many different
teams that I've been on, you know, being in college
for four years now going into my fourth year in
the NBA, just all the different teammates I had, just learning,
you know, learning about your team.
Speaker 13 (31:45):
And learning about what everybody can bring.
Speaker 12 (31:48):
Kind of have an understanding of your team and what
you can bring, who's who can lead, you know, who
needs to follow, different type of sorts of things like
that definitely go directly hand in hand with business. And
that's while we've been able to, you know, kind of
do what we've been doing because we understand that everybody's
been grinding.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
And yeah, so Julian, like I think about this because
as you mentioned a couple of things that actually both
of you guys talked about this. So any either one
if you can chime in, But I'll ask Julian to first,
is you know Crypto's not performing well right now. The
tokens is we're down in the moment. How do you
both and Julian and go first on this. How do
you manage when you're building something based on blockchain technology
(32:31):
and so you're betting on long the long term here
and so when you have these wild swings like we
have right now, how are you managing the ups and
downs of crypto mentally and in your business?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
You just got to be cognizant of of of the
waves that are to common. Obviously prepare for them.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
That being said, you know, with crypto going up and down,
one thing I always like to spread, especially you know
with people that look like us, is you need to
have leverage. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
That being said, you need to make sure you're diversified
where your money is. So crypto being down, I'm also
invested on the things that benefit by that, But looking
at it from a holistic perspective.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
It really makes it boil down.
Speaker 13 (33:14):
So what are you here for?
Speaker 6 (33:16):
You know, specifically with myself and Terrence and Mellow our
other partner, we haven't asked a dollar from anyone in
regards to any NFTs in the crypto space. You know,
we haven't done anything to say, hey, this is Terrence man,
this is a celebrity. This is why we want you
to go and buy this project. That's not really what
we're looking to do here. We're looking to draw on awareness.
And I think something that you had mentioned I watched
(33:37):
a couple of year podcasts was really talking about the
black experience and culture being at the foundation of all
of these apps. And I work in tech and I'm
around NBA players a lot, and I always try to
bring that awareness that, hey, everything that we're utilizing, no
matter what appened, is somebody created this. And I take
a look at the NBA guys, I know THEA, the
NFL guys, I know the w NBA players, and I
(33:57):
take a look back at how many people I know
and just how many slots are in those leagues. And
I want to kind of put that attention to say, hey,
even in crypto, when it's down, things aren't going well,
things are not, you know, soaring in terms of evaluations,
We're still continuing to build because our mission doesn't change
whether Ethereum is fifteen hundred dollars or four thousand dollars.
We're still going to continue to do the same things.
(34:19):
And we started doing that when it was high. When
it's low.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
We're not going to change, so the mission remains the same.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
What did you say, Terrence, how are you managing these waves?
Speaker 5 (34:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 12 (34:30):
I mean, like he said, it's going to be ups
and downs, and you know, I think, I think just
the conversation around it, you know, I think we need
to keep the conversation going, you know, keep having people
talk about it, you know, just so people can see
that it's a thing and it's there that people are
because I think, you know, that's the thing about it.
Speaker 13 (34:48):
Right now, a lot of people are like, no, I
don't see nothing happening. It's going down. They just hear say,
you know, he says, she say, so.
Speaker 12 (34:55):
I think just asking questions and learning more about it,
educate yourself on it, and just keep the common stations going,
Host
Will Lucas
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