May 21, 2026 • 38 mins
Noel Rodriguez Alvarez was last seen in October 2022. Nobody reported him missing. Family members got concerned after his mother, Cindy Rodriguez-Singh made comments about Noel being possessed and a possible danger to her newborn twins. Police were asked to do a welfare check on March 10, 2023. Within 12 days Cindy Rodriguez-Singh, her husband, and six children ages 5 months to 11 years were on their way to India. Noel was not with them. Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss the case of Noel Rodriguez Alvarez, 6-years-old when he vanished. Three years later, we have the answers.
Host Joseph Scott Morgan
Co-Host Dave Mack
Transcribe Highlights
00:00.07 Introduction - Tax refund
02:00.66 Boy missing several years
05:19.42 Noel is special needs
10:03.19 Police welfare check
14:57.34 Being hungry
20:05.53 Arshdeep Singh deposits stolen money
25:01.46 When did Noel fall through the cracks
30:00.86 Dogs smelling decay
35:15.25 The cement will be taken away
38:24.89 Conclusion
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Quality balance with Joseph's gotten more. I probably, like most people,
tax season is not something that I look forward to.
As a matter of fact, I think I'd probably rather
go get my gum scraped. But it is a reality
(00:21):
that we are faced with and have been faced with
all of our adult lives. Right, It's just part and
parcel of living. But you know, there are those moments
in time when tax season does roll around and you
get a so called refund, you know, the time where
the government actually gives you back some of your money,
(00:43):
and many of us are overjoyed. And I think one
of the big questions that many people ask themselves, those
that view that refund as disposable income, how are you
going to spend it? Are you going to use it
for home improvement? Perhaps? Are you going to take naked
and build a flower bed, or maybe that backyard swing
(01:05):
you've always wanted, or the sandbox for the kids? Right?
What if? What if you were to use your tax
refund in order to pour a thick slab of concrete
for your patio, you know, kind of improving things. But
(01:26):
let me add one little caveat to that. What if
something that is more precious than gold, silver, or jewels
is beneath that slab. Maybe it's a missing six year
old boy. Maybe you're the parent of that child, and
(01:46):
that's how you decided to use your tax refund. Today
on body Bags, we're going to tell the story of
a little boy that has been missing for several years,
and it would seem he has now been found. Unfortunately,
(02:06):
he didn't go too far from home. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is Bodybags. Yeah, fan of tax season, Dave.
I know that's a loaded question.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
You know, Joe, if you really wanted to have some
fun with me, I can give you the lesson of
the sixteenth Amendment when I saw the evilness of what
was used here. We did this story on Nancy Grace, Joe,
when this little boy went missing. That's the first time
I heard about Noel Rodriguez Alvarez, because it was one
(02:43):
of those stories that when it comes to us and
you've got a missing six year old who has some
special needs, and you start putting it together, you going,
why did somebody not report him missing months ago? You know,
by the time we got this story, it was March,
and the last time anybody saw him was an October
and as we're getting our stuff together for the story, boom,
(03:06):
an amber alert goes out, and what happens. His mom
is on her way to India by way of Turkey,
along with six children and her husband. The only one
not included on that plane flight after they left the
country was Noel Rodriguez Alvarez, six years old.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Six years old, Dave, I am absolutely positively getting sick
to my back teeth.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, of these stories.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
But I got to tell you, Dave, the reason I'm
sick to my back teeth is this. This is my
underlying thesis here relative to that question, are more or
more parents doing harm to their children than in the past.
I don't know if it's a if they actually are,
(03:55):
or if we're just aware of it more because of
social media. But I do know this. I do know
that human life, and unfortunately the lives of children, are
being devalued. Okay. And if you can look at a child,
(04:17):
a precious little child, and that child has no value
to you whatsoever, Okay, it's very very easy to destroy them.
It's very very easy to just kind of cast them
aside as if they never meant anything. And this little
(04:38):
baby that we're talking about Dave, I'm call him baby
six years old, but even more so with him because he,
this little angel, had physical problems, okay, and he had
a number of them. And what makes it all more
all the more it resonates even more, is that even
(05:01):
more so than your average six year old, he's totally
completely dependent upon those that have that have the privilege
of loving this child. Okay, and here he is, he's missing.
And repeat back to me what you said. The mother
bounced out of the country with her current husband.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I think, yeah, Okay, she the woman we're talking about,
Cindy Rodriguez sing Now, her husband is an Indian from India,
Nardisch sing and they have six children. Now they have
(05:42):
the children at the time has happened. Let's just bring
a focus just on October of twenty twenty two, okay,
because that was the last time family members remembered seeing
Noel Rodriguez Alvarez. Nardisch Singh is not the biological father
of Noel. He's the stepfather. Cindy Rodriguez Singh is the
(06:04):
biological mother of Noel. Cindy Rodriguez Singh was giving birth
to twins in October of twenty twenty two and Noel
was there at the hospital when she was giving birth
to these babies. He's six years old, got my little
twin brothers or sisters coming and he was excited.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, how exciting?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, yeah it is. And so the thing is is
that that's the last time anybody remember seeing him. Because
after that, this is what gets me, this is what
really you want to grind my gears here. In July
of twenty twenty two, Joe, you mentioned that this little
boy has a number of physical he has a number
of things. He's on the spectrum with autism, he has
(06:46):
some physical issues. One of the things he did go
to was speech therapy for a prexia. You know, that's
an important thing for me, right and I followed along
with this disability because that was the last time he
was seen by a doctor, was at a speech therapist. Now,
because of his different disabilities and things and being of
school age, they're all the Believe me, I will tell
(07:08):
you this show. Our government, our people set up some
really good things for children who are in families that
can't afford healthcare at that level, where you've got speech therapy,
physical therapy, all types of therapy, it's all available. It's
all right, there for no charge. Man, it's there, and
he was getting that. Noel was getting that. But he
(07:30):
didn't show up for all of his appointments. Mom stopped
taking him. So last time the attracked him was July
twenty twenty two at a speech therapist. He didn't make
it to any other of his organizational doctor appointments. They
were called government benefits appointments. Okay, And because he wasn't
making it, they're calling and saying, hey, telling Cindy the mom.
(07:55):
They're physically on the phone with her, they're writing letters.
You have to have him at these treet These treatments
are for his benefit. In order for you to keep
getting these benefits, you have to take him. She couldn't
take him for some reason. Joe. It got so bad
that at a regular doctor visit that she had to
go to, they told her, if you don't show up
with that boy at this doctor's office, your benefits are gone.
(08:18):
She offered a friend, Hey, can I borrow your son?
Told a friend, let me borrow your son to take
him to this doctor's appointment. Now, if people know this
is going on and they don't pick up the phone
and say hey, man, social services get over here. You know,
it took a family member to finally call and say
something's going on. This was after family members heard her
say about he heard Cindy talk about Noel, that he's
(08:42):
got a demon inside of him, he's got evil inside
of him. I'm afraid he's going to hurt the babies.
He's going to hurt the twins. He was too much
to care for Joe. And family members knew it, you know. Else,
they knew that Noah was malnourished, that he always had bruises,
kids skinny and Bruce. The other six kids are all
healthy and thriving. Not Noel. So when finally police did
(09:07):
a welfare check, and how many stories have we done
to start with a welfare check? They show up and
they show up to do this welfare check, and you've
got six children in the house. Joe, you've got a
mother and father shar deep or the husband did work,
you had a job. Okay, they're just having you know,
I got a lot of kids. And the home was
(09:27):
a mess. I think it was called abject squalor is
what they were living in. But when they looked for Noel,
they had all these six children, but not Noel. There
should have been seven children. There wasn't And Cindy told police, oh, well,
he's with his father in Mexico. His biological father has
(09:49):
him in Mexico. He's had him since November. So see,
she knew the last time he was seen was October.
What does that tell you based on what we know now,
it tells you everything. But anyway that they didn't just
take her word for it, Okay, they looked around, they
saw the squalor, They made their notes, and they started interviewing.
As soon as police got involved, Joe, that's when everything
(10:12):
got really crazy in a hurry. And I'm going to
tell you what I don't know. I have. I've had
a number of children and they all had friends. Do
you know how difficult it is to marshall up seven
or eight kids and yourself to go anywhere. Yeah, Cindy
and Chardy's actually were able to get all six of
those children loaded up ready to go, buying plane tickets
(10:35):
and getting them out of the country within ten days
of that police at.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
The door way around the world. Yeah, you know, And
you said, I think that they had passed through Turkey
in order to make it to India, and you know,
and that's and look, I've got to talk about this
baby just for a second, Noel. You know, I think
about the time that they invested bouncing out of the
(11:04):
country and taking him away. If they had invested that
time in all of these kids, okay, instead of instead
of using their resources in what they have not been
formally tried or charged charged maybe, but.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Not to be clear, Cindy has been charged with murder, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Not convicted of anything. Wouldn't it be lovely if they
had taken all of those resources and put it toward
an edifying trip with the entire family? You know, if
you really cared for this child who's greatly debilitated, diminished,
you never know what kind of world could have opened
(11:53):
up to him. Instead, it would appear at least that
he's been cast aside as if, like I said, he
had no value whatsoever. And that's the big question. How
can you have a child in your life for this
protracted period of time and then begin to diminish him
(12:15):
to the point where you're going to leave and he's
nowhere around. You're going to leave, go halfway around the world.
And even let's just say, for instance, even if he
was with biodad down in Mexico. Do you think for
two seconds that I, as a dad or a grandfather,
am going to bounce out of the country and leave
(12:37):
my child in Mexico and go to India. No, I'm
going to want to know what the status of that
child is. Where are they I'm going to be out
there moving heaven and hell to try to find him.
And of course the reason they can't find him is
that you know, and I know he wasn't in Mexico.
(13:00):
He was literally under everybody's noses, Dave. I've had to
examine over the course of my career a lot of
(13:21):
kids that were subjected to abuse. And I always talk
about maltreatment of children in terms of and this is
my own vernacular. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's rooted
in what a social worker might say, but always look
at it from a proactive and a passive form of
(13:45):
neglect or abuse. Rather listen, not say neglect. So in
the proactive and proactive implies something positive, and that's not
necessarily always true, but for me, it's more of an
active event where an individual is striking a child, They're
harming a child with physical abuse, and we can go
(14:08):
down a litany of lists, you know that that occur
along the way and will have injuries that we can
document over a protracted period of time that kind of
define these things. But you know, Dave, I got to
tell you, one of the things that that really is
quite striking to me has always been cases of neglect.
(14:30):
Even more so, I think for me, it's always had
a It's always had more of a punch to me
than injuries many times, because the reason it does is
that you see this wasting that has gone on and wasting.
This is why. It's the time frame. I know that
this is what makes it click in my brain. It's
(14:50):
the time frame that it's not something that happens immediately.
It's the dwindles, you know, over a period of time.
And I think that most everybody can think about, just
for a moment, what it's like to have your tummy rumble, right,
And I don't know about you, I know that years
(15:12):
and years ago, for it can be taking care of
me all the time. I'd go there are many times,
you know, I'd look in the cabinet, didn't have anything
to eat, and I just wouldn't eat, you know, And
when you have kids around you always have to feed them.
That might not be the greatest meal that you've ever
had in your life, but it's going to be something
that is sustaining. Right. Can you imagine what it would
(15:36):
be like to be in that environment? Your body is screaming,
and I'm talking about from a growth standpoint. I need nutrition.
It needs nutrition. It needs nutrition. It's not being fed.
And it's not just the rumbling in the stomach. It's
the atrophid muscles, you know, where the child has no strength.
(15:58):
As a matter of fact, when they stand up because
there is such a lack of protein in the brain
that they're disoriented. Their equilibrium is off. Many times they're dehydrated.
You'll see their skin will look almost like parchment, and
they will fall and they'll have bruises on them perhaps,
and those bruises won't come about directly as a result
(16:22):
of being struck by something. They can actually come about
as a result of being having such bad equilibrium due
to lack of nutrition and also muscle tone and those
physiological responses that you and I just kind of take
for granted. They can be bouncing off of furniture, they
(16:44):
can fall off you know, they can fall off the
bed you know, any number of things, so you'll see
all of that associated. It's not just the immediate Dave.
That's what I'm hearing, you know. That's what I'm hearing
with this case, that this had been kind of a
slow march, you know, toward towards this end game. I
hate to call it a game because it's not, but
(17:04):
this end result. And Dave, here's another thing that I
don't understand. How often did they go out in public
with this child because there would have been people bearing
witness to them.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
You know, think when you've got a number of children
like they had, Joe, I mean, I don't know, but
I know this. You made a comment during the last
segment about had they put their efforts into instead of escaping,
you know, going through Turkey to India with six children
and actually did that for something good. The people we're
(17:37):
dealing with here do not think like you and me.
The adults in the situation do not function at the
level of you and I do. Their borderline doctor evil. Okay,
because do you know how they got the when the
welfare check happened, based on family calling and saying we're
concerned about this little boy. The six year old police
(18:01):
show up. He's not there. He's in Mexico. Police take
a look around, they're making notes, a lot of Squalor.
Let's verify this. Can't find him in Mexico. Talk to
dad down there. But no, Noel's not with me. It
takes twelve days from beginning to end for them to
marshal to everything to do the investigation. Whereas this child,
(18:21):
when was the last time he was seen? That's how
we know he was last seen by his therapist in July.
That's why we know he was seen in October twenty
twenty two when the twins were born. But nothing after that, Joe,
nothing after October. So he's the zeroed in October twenty
twenty two. But now go a little bit further here
with me, because police are there. They go back. The
(18:45):
welfare check was March tenth. Yeah, it was twelve days
later when Cindy and her husband got all six of
those children on a plane, bought plane tickets in twenty
(19:07):
four hours and took off twelve days after that welfare check,
not even two weeks time. Joe. They're living in Squalor.
They don't have two nickels to put together, but they're
able to get the money together to get out of town.
Here's how they did it, Shardiche. I know I'm pronouncing
his name wrong, Okay, I want his last name is
(19:29):
sing Si n g h. I'm not intentionally mispronouncing his name.
It's just kind of tough for me to keep up
with all these Sometimes. He was one of these guys
who like travel around a different store, stocking on the shelves,
you know, and the crackers or the whatever on the shelf. Okay,
he was one of those guys. And so he takes
off and he's filling his racks, and he takes this
(19:52):
money and instead of depositing it into his company thing,
he takes eight grand and deposit. He takes ten grand,
deposits two grand to his account, and eight thousand dollars
somewhere else. He buys the tickets. That way, they've got
cash on the run, a couple of grand in the bank,
all from his last run of this thing. They timed
(20:12):
it down. We're going to have to make the thieving
and get out of town within a twenty four hour
period before I get caught. They planned it like that, Joe,
And during that twelve day period, Cindy went to work.
You mentioned the federal income tax refund check they spent.
Cindy spent almost all of it to have that back
(20:34):
patio poured of cement, almost an entire check to put
in a back patio cement. And she even walked around
and told them in areas where she wanted.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
It to be thicker, thicker. Yeah, and Joe.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Got that done front again between March tenth and March
twenty second, got all that done, got it poured out
of town. Think about that for just a minute, what
they pulled off in terms of motivation and getting out
of him. By the way, we don't have any other
comments about any of the other children being malnourished, being beaten,
might be might be poor, you know, they might live
(21:12):
in squalor, But that doesn't mean, you know, we don't
have any of that. We got it all about Noel,
just him, just the one child, the one child that
we've got that we now can't find. So they take
off gone. Three days later, three days after Cindy levels
(21:33):
or kids and husband out of out of that country.
Police show up an issue a umber alert on March
twenty fifth, seventy two hours late.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, and if you know, and again Monday Morning quarterback.
But you know, I've got to tell you we need
the Monday morning quarterback cases like this because over and
over again we hear about you know, well we just
missed them, you know, or somebody was not minding the store.
And I'm saying that from a department of family and children,
(22:05):
you know standpoint. They're not watching where they should be watching.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
And by the way, yeah, I was gonna say, I've
been calling the guy shardy. It's Arge Deep, not Shardy.
Arge Deep is the guy's I know, it doesn't make
a lot of difference. It does to me because I
hate saying somebody's name wrong, especially when they're a criminal.
But yeah, Joe, I still haven't quite got grasped the
idea that they went from zero to sixty and twelve days.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah they did. And this is this is the other
thing I'm really curious about who actually had a hand
in this, because you know, the mother has been charged
right in this particular instance when it comes to Noel's death,
and I'm thinking, pray, tell this man who went out
(22:58):
and committed a row or theft in order to facilitate this,
what was it that was so incredible about her that
you would want to throw away your good name and
your life on this person that, apparently, according to what
(23:20):
the investigators are saying, had a real hand in particularly
taking the life of her child, and not just taking
the life of the child, but discarding the child, burying
this child underneath, you know, hundreds of pounds of cement,
and then bouncing the eye of the country. I'm thinking
(23:44):
about what they you know, how they would have approached
this from an investigative standpoint, because you know, once once
the barn door is left open, and you know there
has not been a gatekeeper where you have a family
that is living in a questionable manner. Because there were
(24:05):
people that were concerned obviously about this case. And this child,
he's only six, he's debilitated. It would be very easy
for him to be hidden back. But let's go back
just for a second about these these appointments that this
child had. The child was known to therapists and to
(24:29):
people that were supposed to be providing care. They were
being supplemented as a result of monies that were coming
in because by their on it mission. They told her
directly that if you fail to bring this child in
these moneies which are meant for support, and they're you know,
(24:49):
you know, for food and clothing and housing. Where were they?
Because if this is not you know, I'm wondering how
how long since he had last physically been examined by
one of these therapists, did Noel start to slip off
the cliff? You know? Was it long term? Was it
(25:11):
was it something that had been going on for a
protracted period of time, or did somebody turn a blind
die to it, you know, because he's just another one
of the number they're going to pass through our doors,
and there's really nothing, you know, we can do about it,
because you know, I know that there's people out there
every single day that see kids, I know, teachers in
(25:33):
public schools personally, that have reported child abuse in public schools,
and the administration does nothing about it. The kid just
keeps on keeping on and keeps on living in that life.
And there are a lot of our public educators out
there that very frustrated over that, you know, because no
one will interdict on the behalf of the child. But
(25:56):
already we're already seeing an excuse pop up because when
it comes to Noel's mother, how are they explaining it,
How are they explaining the behaviors associated with that. Are
they saying that perhaps she had something wrong with her
(26:17):
that would compel her to neglect her child, bury him
beneath concrete after apparently taking his life, and then flee
to the other side of the wall. Well, you know,
(26:46):
when all else fails and you're trying to find a body,
you call out the dogs, right, And we've had so
many cases over the years where we find that investigators
have been heavily reliant upon the use of canines. And
(27:07):
what a beautiful thing, what a beautiful tool they are
for this exact purpose, because even though we can't smell
human decay, even though you know, our senses fail us,
doesn't seem like they ever fail our canine friends, do they.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Dave Joe, There's something that came up during the investigation.
You mentioned it a few minutes ago about how once
the once Cindy and the family all headed out of town,
ed left the barn doors wide open and police were
able to get in there. And even though they were
living in squalor and trash and everything else. The one
thing police noticed is that when they were researching doing
(27:46):
their investigation, they found that ourge Deep Singh, the stepdad
to Noel and the father of the six children of Sydney.
They saw him dumping this indoor outdoor carpeting in a
dumpster the night before they all left town. Now as
police were bringing dogs out because well there's this freshly
(28:09):
poured slab of concrete. The one thing they pointed out
Joe is that they've got ours deep taking this indoor
outdoor carpeting right, one piece of it, and he's putting
that in a dumpster. But they mentioned living in squalor,
and that translates to trash as well. They left trash
everywhere in that house, everywhere in the house, out in
(28:31):
the backyard and in the back shed, trash everywhere. They
didn't take any of that, but he took this one
roll of into outdoor carpeting, he threw it away, So
that was a little tip. But the next thing was
they brought the dogs out. Now, the dogs hit on
the dumpster, They hit on, you know, right where that
carpeting had been thrown. Yes, and there's this one dog
they bring out to that cement and I can't, for
(28:53):
the life of me understand how it's possible that a dog,
a canine can be trained in such a way that
this dog will go out and walk all over the yard,
all over everywhere. He's looking for or she is looking
for one thing and one thing only. And in the
middle of this slab of cement poured in haste, he says,
(29:17):
He says, I'm here, Yep, You've got to tell me
about what dogs have and do, because I don't quite
understand what they're picking up on.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Well, there's two, two organic compounds that they're actually smelling.
And listen, you're going to understand the root of these first,
first and foremost one is puture scene okay, and future
scene just like puture faction or something like wow that's putrefied.
How many times have you heard that term?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And then you have you're ready for this one. Cadaverine
all right, just like couldaver and it's very specific and
so it's it is fascinating. These animals are fascinating most
of the time. However, they're going to be able to
They're going to be able to. Like you talk about
(30:11):
the squalid conditions, right, and I've been in squalid conditions
before working cases. You know, things that would you know,
make a billy got throw up right when you walk in.
But it's the normal course of living. That doesn't mean
they're surrounded by dead bodies in there. So the smell
of like trash that is just lying about, or trash
doesn't have that hasn't gone out, that sort of thing
(30:34):
is different than the smell of an animal decomposing. All right.
And when I find it interesting though, that the the
canine also hit on the dumpster as well, So that
gives me an indication that perhaps you might have had
some kind of organic on there that's associated with human
(30:55):
deco or animal decomposition yet like blood.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
All right, Okay, they had multiple dogs. Do different dogs
do different things?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, but you have dogs that are
specifically trained for cadaver searches. As a matter of fact,
I remember being at the Medical Examiner's office and we
had a couple that would a couple of handlers that
would come by and we would know, this is really disgusting,
but we would they would go back into we had
a room called the decomp Room is actually decomp building,
(31:24):
which is where we kept decomposing bodies separated from the
fresh dead. And we actually had a separate autopsy suite
back there, and we could control all kinds of things
like insect activity and smells. It had special air handlers,
and so the trainers would go in there and they
would have what look like, I don't know how to
(31:46):
describe it. It almost looked like a sock with a
tennis ball in it. It was absorbent, and they would
go into the tray where a body was and a
body that is decomposing actually has decompetitional fluid, and they
would roll the ball around in that tray and they
didn't have to get a lot on there, and they
would take it and seal it in a separate bag.
(32:06):
And they do multiple of these balls or these you know,
these little conveyances, and they would go out to, you know,
far from long locations. They put them on tops of trees,
they'd bury them under trees, they put them behind walls
and all. And so the dogs we used to walking
around and sniffing and getting a hit on these things.
And they would do this beforehand, all right, And then
(32:28):
they had other exercises where they would go out and
they would actually drag things across surfaces, you know, that
had the stuff on it. It's a fascinating study and
how they're trained. So when when they would have shown
up in Noel's case, Yeah, the dog would have hit.
These dogs are very well trained and so just the sitting,
(32:50):
the sitting saying okay, X marks the spot. Now, from
a forensic standpoint, you have to go into that space
and be very careful. That's where particularly concrete I've used
both with concrete and and with dirt covered surfaces where
we use ground penetrating radar. Now I never used it.
(33:12):
I mean I would aid with it, but it's it's
something that somebody that is certified and trained in the
use of it. I'm fascinated, you know, as kind of
a geeky guy that wants to see how it does.
And then you go over and they have a monitor
and you can see where actually the ground changes. And
so just think about if you have a body that
(33:34):
is say curled like in a fetal position initially, and
that concrete goes over that body, well, there's going to
be pockets in there of air. You might not think
that there are, but there are, particularly as a body
begins to decompose, and you'll see this kind of space.
And let just imagine that you've got a body that
(33:57):
is in a fetal position, you might have have a
spot that pops up on the screen that you know,
when you're looking at it might look like a I
don't know how to describe it, like a gigantic black
eyed pea. It's kind of our kidney bean kind of
curled like this, kind of got a hollow shape in
the middle. Just think of a kidney bean lying on
the side. And you have to have a real keen
(34:18):
eye for it. I never really did, because I would
look at the screen and one of these professional people look, oh,
look there it is, you see it, And I'm like, yeah,
sure if you say so, but sure enough, you know,
you get out the jackhammers again. You got to be careful, right, That's.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Why you have to Why do you go about that,
because you know you're dealing with You have to.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Do it se surface and you do it layer by layer.
That's why you have to have a forensic anthropologist with you.
I cannot sing their praises high enough to come out
and excavate because there are certain strata and that just
means layers that you get down to and you're just
kind of you're peeling the onion at this point in time.
Now the top layer, Yeah, you might find things there.
There might be evidence that's bed. You're not just going
(34:58):
to toss aside those chunk. The chunks will be taken
somewhere else and further pulverized, and you kind of shake
through them and see, you know, you might find a tooth,
you might find a round, a spent round. But as
you go deeper and deeper, the more delicate you have
to be until you get down in there and then
you find remains and it's one of those moments. I
(35:21):
can't describe it to people that have never really been there.
It's kind of a it's a sad moment, but it's
very revelatory, you know, because you suspected that it was there,
and then all of a sudden you get scientific confirmation
that there is something there and you're staring down at
it and it could be a bony protuberance, you know,
like I've brushed away dirt before and there was the
(35:44):
end of a femur, you know, where it can joins,
you know, to create the knee, and it's just kind
of poking up. I remember brushing away dirt and seeing
the top of a skull and that was the first
part that we found because the body was buried at
kind of a severe angle with the head up and
it was just dumb luck, you know, But we were
trying to be very very careful, and in Noel's case,
(36:07):
even more so because it's so easy to do harm
to a small, defenseless child, because the question is going
to be, now that she's charged with a homicide, well,
how did you get here? How did it happen? Well,
that's that's going to be a lot to go through it.
He's been down for a protracted period of time. Day
is there going to I would be highly suspect unless
(36:30):
the body was cocooned. I love using that term in
plastic that you would have any remnant of soft tissue remaining. Okay,
if there are clothes, there could be blood on this clothes.
There's a higher probability if you have some kind of
synthetic like a synthetic shirt. You know, people think I
always use this term. My son laughs at me. You
(36:51):
know one of those under Armour shirts that you have,
because under Armour was the first people to make those
kind of synthetic kind of T shirt looking things. They
can be rather resilient. Anything that is that is synthetic material,
you know, things like polyesters and no sorts of things
as opposed to something that maybe is like pure one
(37:12):
percent cotton, and there could be trace evidence on there.
You're going to be looking at the bone specifically to
see if they're like a depressed skull fracture, there's a
defect in the skull where someone has shot this child
the neck is going to be really hard to figure
out if it was an asphixia case, if it was
a suffocation case. But here's here's the one thing I'll say,
(37:37):
Noel will tell the tale as far as his cause
of death. They have a manner because let me tell
you what rest inside the bones of Noel. It's a
message that's being sent. And it's not the message about
my mama abandoning me beneath a patio. It's the message
(38:00):
of I have bruises all over my body. The message
is this nobody cared enough to feed me and fortify
me and provide me with any base nutrition. And I
think that from that we can say perhaps he was
(38:23):
never loved. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body
bats
Quality balance with Joseph's gotten more. I probably, like most people,
tax season is not something that I look forward to.
As a matter of fact, I think I'd probably rather
go get my gum scraped. But it is a reality
(00:21):
that we are faced with and have been faced with
all of our adult lives. Right, It's just part and
parcel of living. But you know, there are those moments
in time when tax season does roll around and you
get a so called refund, you know, the time where
the government actually gives you back some of your money,
(00:43):
and many of us are overjoyed. And I think one
of the big questions that many people ask themselves, those
that view that refund as disposable income, how are you
going to spend it? Are you going to use it
for home improvement? Perhaps? Are you going to take naked
and build a flower bed, or maybe that backyard swing
(01:05):
you've always wanted, or the sandbox for the kids? Right?
What if? What if you were to use your tax
refund in order to pour a thick slab of concrete
for your patio, you know, kind of improving things. But
(01:26):
let me add one little caveat to that. What if
something that is more precious than gold, silver, or jewels
is beneath that slab. Maybe it's a missing six year
old boy. Maybe you're the parent of that child, and
(01:46):
that's how you decided to use your tax refund. Today
on body Bags, we're going to tell the story of
a little boy that has been missing for several years,
and it would seem he has now been found. Unfortunately,
(02:06):
he didn't go too far from home. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is Bodybags. Yeah, fan of tax season, Dave.
I know that's a loaded question.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
You know, Joe, if you really wanted to have some
fun with me, I can give you the lesson of
the sixteenth Amendment when I saw the evilness of what
was used here. We did this story on Nancy Grace, Joe,
when this little boy went missing. That's the first time
I heard about Noel Rodriguez Alvarez, because it was one
(02:43):
of those stories that when it comes to us and
you've got a missing six year old who has some
special needs, and you start putting it together, you going,
why did somebody not report him missing months ago? You know,
by the time we got this story, it was March,
and the last time anybody saw him was an October
and as we're getting our stuff together for the story, boom,
(03:06):
an amber alert goes out, and what happens. His mom
is on her way to India by way of Turkey,
along with six children and her husband. The only one
not included on that plane flight after they left the
country was Noel Rodriguez Alvarez, six years old.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Six years old, Dave, I am absolutely positively getting sick
to my back teeth.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, of these stories.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
But I got to tell you, Dave, the reason I'm
sick to my back teeth is this. This is my
underlying thesis here relative to that question, are more or
more parents doing harm to their children than in the past.
I don't know if it's a if they actually are,
(03:55):
or if we're just aware of it more because of
social media. But I do know this. I do know
that human life, and unfortunately the lives of children, are
being devalued. Okay. And if you can look at a child,
(04:17):
a precious little child, and that child has no value
to you whatsoever, Okay, it's very very easy to destroy them.
It's very very easy to just kind of cast them
aside as if they never meant anything. And this little
(04:38):
baby that we're talking about Dave, I'm call him baby
six years old, but even more so with him because he,
this little angel, had physical problems, okay, and he had
a number of them. And what makes it all more
all the more it resonates even more, is that even
(05:01):
more so than your average six year old, he's totally
completely dependent upon those that have that have the privilege
of loving this child. Okay, and here he is, he's missing.
And repeat back to me what you said. The mother
bounced out of the country with her current husband.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I think, yeah, Okay, she the woman we're talking about,
Cindy Rodriguez sing Now, her husband is an Indian from India,
Nardisch sing and they have six children. Now they have
(05:42):
the children at the time has happened. Let's just bring
a focus just on October of twenty twenty two, okay,
because that was the last time family members remembered seeing
Noel Rodriguez Alvarez. Nardisch Singh is not the biological father
of Noel. He's the stepfather. Cindy Rodriguez Singh is the
(06:04):
biological mother of Noel. Cindy Rodriguez Singh was giving birth
to twins in October of twenty twenty two and Noel
was there at the hospital when she was giving birth
to these babies. He's six years old, got my little
twin brothers or sisters coming and he was excited.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, how exciting?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, yeah it is. And so the thing is is
that that's the last time anybody remember seeing him. Because
after that, this is what gets me, this is what
really you want to grind my gears here. In July
of twenty twenty two, Joe, you mentioned that this little
boy has a number of physical he has a number
of things. He's on the spectrum with autism, he has
(06:46):
some physical issues. One of the things he did go
to was speech therapy for a prexia. You know, that's
an important thing for me, right and I followed along
with this disability because that was the last time he
was seen by a doctor, was at a speech therapist. Now,
because of his different disabilities and things and being of
school age, they're all the Believe me, I will tell
(07:08):
you this show. Our government, our people set up some
really good things for children who are in families that
can't afford healthcare at that level, where you've got speech therapy,
physical therapy, all types of therapy, it's all available. It's
all right, there for no charge. Man, it's there, and
he was getting that. Noel was getting that. But he
(07:30):
didn't show up for all of his appointments. Mom stopped
taking him. So last time the attracked him was July
twenty twenty two at a speech therapist. He didn't make
it to any other of his organizational doctor appointments. They
were called government benefits appointments. Okay, And because he wasn't
making it, they're calling and saying, hey, telling Cindy the mom.
(07:55):
They're physically on the phone with her, they're writing letters.
You have to have him at these treet These treatments
are for his benefit. In order for you to keep
getting these benefits, you have to take him. She couldn't
take him for some reason. Joe. It got so bad
that at a regular doctor visit that she had to
go to, they told her, if you don't show up
with that boy at this doctor's office, your benefits are gone.
(08:18):
She offered a friend, Hey, can I borrow your son?
Told a friend, let me borrow your son to take
him to this doctor's appointment. Now, if people know this
is going on and they don't pick up the phone
and say hey, man, social services get over here. You know,
it took a family member to finally call and say
something's going on. This was after family members heard her
say about he heard Cindy talk about Noel, that he's
(08:42):
got a demon inside of him, he's got evil inside
of him. I'm afraid he's going to hurt the babies.
He's going to hurt the twins. He was too much
to care for Joe. And family members knew it, you know. Else,
they knew that Noah was malnourished, that he always had bruises,
kids skinny and Bruce. The other six kids are all
healthy and thriving. Not Noel. So when finally police did
(09:07):
a welfare check, and how many stories have we done
to start with a welfare check? They show up and
they show up to do this welfare check, and you've
got six children in the house. Joe, you've got a
mother and father shar deep or the husband did work,
you had a job. Okay, they're just having you know,
I got a lot of kids. And the home was
(09:27):
a mess. I think it was called abject squalor is
what they were living in. But when they looked for Noel,
they had all these six children, but not Noel. There
should have been seven children. There wasn't And Cindy told police, oh, well,
he's with his father in Mexico. His biological father has
(09:49):
him in Mexico. He's had him since November. So see,
she knew the last time he was seen was October.
What does that tell you based on what we know now,
it tells you everything. But anyway that they didn't just
take her word for it, Okay, they looked around, they
saw the squalor, They made their notes, and they started interviewing.
As soon as police got involved, Joe, that's when everything
(10:12):
got really crazy in a hurry. And I'm going to
tell you what I don't know. I have. I've had
a number of children and they all had friends. Do
you know how difficult it is to marshall up seven
or eight kids and yourself to go anywhere. Yeah, Cindy
and Chardy's actually were able to get all six of
those children loaded up ready to go, buying plane tickets
(10:35):
and getting them out of the country within ten days
of that police at.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
The door way around the world. Yeah, you know, And
you said, I think that they had passed through Turkey
in order to make it to India, and you know,
and that's and look, I've got to talk about this
baby just for a second, Noel. You know, I think
about the time that they invested bouncing out of the
(11:04):
country and taking him away. If they had invested that
time in all of these kids, okay, instead of instead
of using their resources in what they have not been
formally tried or charged charged maybe, but.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Not to be clear, Cindy has been charged with murder, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Not convicted of anything. Wouldn't it be lovely if they
had taken all of those resources and put it toward
an edifying trip with the entire family? You know, if
you really cared for this child who's greatly debilitated, diminished,
you never know what kind of world could have opened
(11:53):
up to him. Instead, it would appear at least that
he's been cast aside as if, like I said, he
had no value whatsoever. And that's the big question. How
can you have a child in your life for this
protracted period of time and then begin to diminish him
(12:15):
to the point where you're going to leave and he's
nowhere around. You're going to leave, go halfway around the world.
And even let's just say, for instance, even if he
was with biodad down in Mexico. Do you think for
two seconds that I, as a dad or a grandfather,
am going to bounce out of the country and leave
(12:37):
my child in Mexico and go to India. No, I'm
going to want to know what the status of that
child is. Where are they I'm going to be out
there moving heaven and hell to try to find him.
And of course the reason they can't find him is
that you know, and I know he wasn't in Mexico.
(13:00):
He was literally under everybody's noses, Dave. I've had to
examine over the course of my career a lot of
(13:21):
kids that were subjected to abuse. And I always talk
about maltreatment of children in terms of and this is
my own vernacular. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's rooted
in what a social worker might say, but always look
at it from a proactive and a passive form of
(13:45):
neglect or abuse. Rather listen, not say neglect. So in
the proactive and proactive implies something positive, and that's not
necessarily always true, but for me, it's more of an
active event where an individual is striking a child, They're
harming a child with physical abuse, and we can go
(14:08):
down a litany of lists, you know that that occur
along the way and will have injuries that we can
document over a protracted period of time that kind of
define these things. But you know, Dave, I got to
tell you, one of the things that that really is
quite striking to me has always been cases of neglect.
(14:30):
Even more so, I think for me, it's always had
a It's always had more of a punch to me
than injuries many times, because the reason it does is
that you see this wasting that has gone on and wasting.
This is why. It's the time frame. I know that
this is what makes it click in my brain. It's
(14:50):
the time frame that it's not something that happens immediately.
It's the dwindles, you know, over a period of time.
And I think that most everybody can think about, just
for a moment, what it's like to have your tummy rumble, right,
And I don't know about you, I know that years
(15:12):
and years ago, for it can be taking care of
me all the time. I'd go there are many times,
you know, I'd look in the cabinet, didn't have anything
to eat, and I just wouldn't eat, you know, And
when you have kids around you always have to feed them.
That might not be the greatest meal that you've ever
had in your life, but it's going to be something
that is sustaining. Right. Can you imagine what it would
(15:36):
be like to be in that environment? Your body is screaming,
and I'm talking about from a growth standpoint. I need nutrition.
It needs nutrition. It needs nutrition. It's not being fed.
And it's not just the rumbling in the stomach. It's
the atrophid muscles, you know, where the child has no strength.
(15:58):
As a matter of fact, when they stand up because
there is such a lack of protein in the brain
that they're disoriented. Their equilibrium is off. Many times they're dehydrated.
You'll see their skin will look almost like parchment, and
they will fall and they'll have bruises on them perhaps,
and those bruises won't come about directly as a result
(16:22):
of being struck by something. They can actually come about
as a result of being having such bad equilibrium due
to lack of nutrition and also muscle tone and those
physiological responses that you and I just kind of take
for granted. They can be bouncing off of furniture, they
(16:44):
can fall off you know, they can fall off the
bed you know, any number of things, so you'll see
all of that associated. It's not just the immediate Dave.
That's what I'm hearing, you know. That's what I'm hearing
with this case, that this had been kind of a
slow march, you know, toward towards this end game. I
hate to call it a game because it's not, but
(17:04):
this end result. And Dave, here's another thing that I
don't understand. How often did they go out in public
with this child because there would have been people bearing
witness to them.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
You know, think when you've got a number of children
like they had, Joe, I mean, I don't know, but
I know this. You made a comment during the last
segment about had they put their efforts into instead of escaping,
you know, going through Turkey to India with six children
and actually did that for something good. The people we're
(17:37):
dealing with here do not think like you and me.
The adults in the situation do not function at the
level of you and I do. Their borderline doctor evil. Okay,
because do you know how they got the when the
welfare check happened, based on family calling and saying we're
concerned about this little boy. The six year old police
(18:01):
show up. He's not there. He's in Mexico. Police take
a look around, they're making notes, a lot of Squalor.
Let's verify this. Can't find him in Mexico. Talk to
dad down there. But no, Noel's not with me. It
takes twelve days from beginning to end for them to
marshal to everything to do the investigation. Whereas this child,
(18:21):
when was the last time he was seen? That's how
we know he was last seen by his therapist in July.
That's why we know he was seen in October twenty
twenty two when the twins were born. But nothing after that, Joe,
nothing after October. So he's the zeroed in October twenty
twenty two. But now go a little bit further here
with me, because police are there. They go back. The
(18:45):
welfare check was March tenth. Yeah, it was twelve days
later when Cindy and her husband got all six of
those children on a plane, bought plane tickets in twenty
(19:07):
four hours and took off twelve days after that welfare check,
not even two weeks time. Joe. They're living in Squalor.
They don't have two nickels to put together, but they're
able to get the money together to get out of town.
Here's how they did it, Shardiche. I know I'm pronouncing
his name wrong, Okay, I want his last name is
(19:29):
sing Si n g h. I'm not intentionally mispronouncing his name.
It's just kind of tough for me to keep up
with all these Sometimes. He was one of these guys
who like travel around a different store, stocking on the shelves,
you know, and the crackers or the whatever on the shelf. Okay,
he was one of those guys. And so he takes
off and he's filling his racks, and he takes this
(19:52):
money and instead of depositing it into his company thing,
he takes eight grand and deposit. He takes ten grand,
deposits two grand to his account, and eight thousand dollars
somewhere else. He buys the tickets. That way, they've got
cash on the run, a couple of grand in the bank,
all from his last run of this thing. They timed
(20:12):
it down. We're going to have to make the thieving
and get out of town within a twenty four hour
period before I get caught. They planned it like that, Joe,
And during that twelve day period, Cindy went to work.
You mentioned the federal income tax refund check they spent.
Cindy spent almost all of it to have that back
(20:34):
patio poured of cement, almost an entire check to put
in a back patio cement. And she even walked around
and told them in areas where she wanted.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
It to be thicker, thicker. Yeah, and Joe.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Got that done front again between March tenth and March
twenty second, got all that done, got it poured out
of town. Think about that for just a minute, what
they pulled off in terms of motivation and getting out
of him. By the way, we don't have any other
comments about any of the other children being malnourished, being beaten,
might be might be poor, you know, they might live
(21:12):
in squalor, But that doesn't mean, you know, we don't
have any of that. We got it all about Noel,
just him, just the one child, the one child that
we've got that we now can't find. So they take
off gone. Three days later, three days after Cindy levels
(21:33):
or kids and husband out of out of that country.
Police show up an issue a umber alert on March
twenty fifth, seventy two hours late.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, and if you know, and again Monday Morning quarterback.
But you know, I've got to tell you we need
the Monday morning quarterback cases like this because over and
over again we hear about you know, well we just
missed them, you know, or somebody was not minding the store.
And I'm saying that from a department of family and children,
(22:05):
you know standpoint. They're not watching where they should be watching.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
And by the way, yeah, I was gonna say, I've
been calling the guy shardy. It's Arge Deep, not Shardy.
Arge Deep is the guy's I know, it doesn't make
a lot of difference. It does to me because I
hate saying somebody's name wrong, especially when they're a criminal.
But yeah, Joe, I still haven't quite got grasped the
idea that they went from zero to sixty and twelve days.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah they did. And this is this is the other
thing I'm really curious about who actually had a hand
in this, because you know, the mother has been charged
right in this particular instance when it comes to Noel's death,
and I'm thinking, pray, tell this man who went out
(22:58):
and committed a row or theft in order to facilitate this,
what was it that was so incredible about her that
you would want to throw away your good name and
your life on this person that, apparently, according to what
(23:20):
the investigators are saying, had a real hand in particularly
taking the life of her child, and not just taking
the life of the child, but discarding the child, burying
this child underneath, you know, hundreds of pounds of cement,
and then bouncing the eye of the country. I'm thinking
(23:44):
about what they you know, how they would have approached
this from an investigative standpoint, because you know, once once
the barn door is left open, and you know there
has not been a gatekeeper where you have a family
that is living in a questionable manner. Because there were
(24:05):
people that were concerned obviously about this case. And this child,
he's only six, he's debilitated. It would be very easy
for him to be hidden back. But let's go back
just for a second about these these appointments that this
child had. The child was known to therapists and to
(24:29):
people that were supposed to be providing care. They were
being supplemented as a result of monies that were coming
in because by their on it mission. They told her
directly that if you fail to bring this child in
these moneies which are meant for support, and they're you know,
(24:49):
you know, for food and clothing and housing. Where were they?
Because if this is not you know, I'm wondering how
how long since he had last physically been examined by
one of these therapists, did Noel start to slip off
the cliff? You know? Was it long term? Was it
(25:11):
was it something that had been going on for a
protracted period of time, or did somebody turn a blind
die to it, you know, because he's just another one
of the number they're going to pass through our doors,
and there's really nothing, you know, we can do about it,
because you know, I know that there's people out there
every single day that see kids, I know, teachers in
(25:33):
public schools personally, that have reported child abuse in public schools,
and the administration does nothing about it. The kid just
keeps on keeping on and keeps on living in that life.
And there are a lot of our public educators out
there that very frustrated over that, you know, because no
one will interdict on the behalf of the child. But
(25:56):
already we're already seeing an excuse pop up because when
it comes to Noel's mother, how are they explaining it,
How are they explaining the behaviors associated with that. Are
they saying that perhaps she had something wrong with her
(26:17):
that would compel her to neglect her child, bury him
beneath concrete after apparently taking his life, and then flee
to the other side of the wall. Well, you know,
(26:46):
when all else fails and you're trying to find a body,
you call out the dogs, right, And we've had so
many cases over the years where we find that investigators
have been heavily reliant upon the use of canines. And
(27:07):
what a beautiful thing, what a beautiful tool they are
for this exact purpose, because even though we can't smell
human decay, even though you know, our senses fail us,
doesn't seem like they ever fail our canine friends, do they.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Dave Joe, There's something that came up during the investigation.
You mentioned it a few minutes ago about how once
the once Cindy and the family all headed out of town,
ed left the barn doors wide open and police were
able to get in there. And even though they were
living in squalor and trash and everything else. The one
thing police noticed is that when they were researching doing
(27:46):
their investigation, they found that ourge Deep Singh, the stepdad
to Noel and the father of the six children of Sydney.
They saw him dumping this indoor outdoor carpeting in a
dumpster the night before they all left town. Now as
police were bringing dogs out because well there's this freshly
(28:09):
poured slab of concrete. The one thing they pointed out
Joe is that they've got ours deep taking this indoor
outdoor carpeting right, one piece of it, and he's putting
that in a dumpster. But they mentioned living in squalor,
and that translates to trash as well. They left trash
everywhere in that house, everywhere in the house, out in
(28:31):
the backyard and in the back shed, trash everywhere. They
didn't take any of that, but he took this one
roll of into outdoor carpeting, he threw it away, So
that was a little tip. But the next thing was
they brought the dogs out. Now, the dogs hit on
the dumpster, They hit on, you know, right where that
carpeting had been thrown. Yes, and there's this one dog
they bring out to that cement and I can't, for
(28:53):
the life of me understand how it's possible that a dog,
a canine can be trained in such a way that
this dog will go out and walk all over the yard,
all over everywhere. He's looking for or she is looking
for one thing and one thing only. And in the
middle of this slab of cement poured in haste, he says,
(29:17):
He says, I'm here, Yep, You've got to tell me
about what dogs have and do, because I don't quite
understand what they're picking up on.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Well, there's two, two organic compounds that they're actually smelling.
And listen, you're going to understand the root of these first,
first and foremost one is puture scene okay, and future
scene just like puture faction or something like wow that's putrefied.
How many times have you heard that term?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And then you have you're ready for this one. Cadaverine
all right, just like couldaver and it's very specific and
so it's it is fascinating. These animals are fascinating most
of the time. However, they're going to be able to
They're going to be able to. Like you talk about
(30:11):
the squalid conditions, right, and I've been in squalid conditions
before working cases. You know, things that would you know,
make a billy got throw up right when you walk in.
But it's the normal course of living. That doesn't mean
they're surrounded by dead bodies in there. So the smell
of like trash that is just lying about, or trash
doesn't have that hasn't gone out, that sort of thing
(30:34):
is different than the smell of an animal decomposing. All right.
And when I find it interesting though, that the the
canine also hit on the dumpster as well, So that
gives me an indication that perhaps you might have had
some kind of organic on there that's associated with human
(30:55):
deco or animal decomposition yet like blood.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
All right, Okay, they had multiple dogs. Do different dogs
do different things?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, but you have dogs that are
specifically trained for cadaver searches. As a matter of fact,
I remember being at the Medical Examiner's office and we
had a couple that would a couple of handlers that
would come by and we would know, this is really disgusting,
but we would they would go back into we had
a room called the decomp Room is actually decomp building,
(31:24):
which is where we kept decomposing bodies separated from the
fresh dead. And we actually had a separate autopsy suite
back there, and we could control all kinds of things
like insect activity and smells. It had special air handlers,
and so the trainers would go in there and they
would have what look like, I don't know how to
(31:46):
describe it. It almost looked like a sock with a
tennis ball in it. It was absorbent, and they would
go into the tray where a body was and a
body that is decomposing actually has decompetitional fluid, and they
would roll the ball around in that tray and they
didn't have to get a lot on there, and they
would take it and seal it in a separate bag.
(32:06):
And they do multiple of these balls or these you know,
these little conveyances, and they would go out to, you know,
far from long locations. They put them on tops of trees,
they'd bury them under trees, they put them behind walls
and all. And so the dogs we used to walking
around and sniffing and getting a hit on these things.
And they would do this beforehand, all right, And then
(32:28):
they had other exercises where they would go out and
they would actually drag things across surfaces, you know, that
had the stuff on it. It's a fascinating study and
how they're trained. So when when they would have shown
up in Noel's case, Yeah, the dog would have hit.
These dogs are very well trained and so just the sitting,
(32:50):
the sitting saying okay, X marks the spot. Now, from
a forensic standpoint, you have to go into that space
and be very careful. That's where particularly concrete I've used
both with concrete and and with dirt covered surfaces where
we use ground penetrating radar. Now I never used it.
(33:12):
I mean I would aid with it, but it's it's
something that somebody that is certified and trained in the
use of it. I'm fascinated, you know, as kind of
a geeky guy that wants to see how it does.
And then you go over and they have a monitor
and you can see where actually the ground changes. And
so just think about if you have a body that
(33:34):
is say curled like in a fetal position initially, and
that concrete goes over that body, well, there's going to
be pockets in there of air. You might not think
that there are, but there are, particularly as a body
begins to decompose, and you'll see this kind of space.
And let just imagine that you've got a body that
(33:57):
is in a fetal position, you might have have a
spot that pops up on the screen that you know,
when you're looking at it might look like a I
don't know how to describe it, like a gigantic black
eyed pea. It's kind of our kidney bean kind of
curled like this, kind of got a hollow shape in
the middle. Just think of a kidney bean lying on
the side. And you have to have a real keen
(34:18):
eye for it. I never really did, because I would
look at the screen and one of these professional people look, oh,
look there it is, you see it, And I'm like, yeah,
sure if you say so, but sure enough, you know,
you get out the jackhammers again. You got to be careful, right, That's.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Why you have to Why do you go about that,
because you know you're dealing with You have to.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Do it se surface and you do it layer by layer.
That's why you have to have a forensic anthropologist with you.
I cannot sing their praises high enough to come out
and excavate because there are certain strata and that just
means layers that you get down to and you're just
kind of you're peeling the onion at this point in time.
Now the top layer, Yeah, you might find things there.
There might be evidence that's bed. You're not just going
(34:58):
to toss aside those chunk. The chunks will be taken
somewhere else and further pulverized, and you kind of shake
through them and see, you know, you might find a tooth,
you might find a round, a spent round. But as
you go deeper and deeper, the more delicate you have
to be until you get down in there and then
you find remains and it's one of those moments. I
(35:21):
can't describe it to people that have never really been there.
It's kind of a it's a sad moment, but it's
very revelatory, you know, because you suspected that it was there,
and then all of a sudden you get scientific confirmation
that there is something there and you're staring down at
it and it could be a bony protuberance, you know,
like I've brushed away dirt before and there was the
(35:44):
end of a femur, you know, where it can joins,
you know, to create the knee, and it's just kind
of poking up. I remember brushing away dirt and seeing
the top of a skull and that was the first
part that we found because the body was buried at
kind of a severe angle with the head up and
it was just dumb luck, you know, But we were
trying to be very very careful, and in Noel's case,
(36:07):
even more so because it's so easy to do harm
to a small, defenseless child, because the question is going
to be, now that she's charged with a homicide, well,
how did you get here? How did it happen? Well,
that's that's going to be a lot to go through it.
He's been down for a protracted period of time. Day
is there going to I would be highly suspect unless
(36:30):
the body was cocooned. I love using that term in
plastic that you would have any remnant of soft tissue remaining. Okay,
if there are clothes, there could be blood on this clothes.
There's a higher probability if you have some kind of
synthetic like a synthetic shirt. You know, people think I
always use this term. My son laughs at me. You
(36:51):
know one of those under Armour shirts that you have,
because under Armour was the first people to make those
kind of synthetic kind of T shirt looking things. They
can be rather resilient. Anything that is that is synthetic material,
you know, things like polyesters and no sorts of things
as opposed to something that maybe is like pure one
(37:12):
percent cotton, and there could be trace evidence on there.
You're going to be looking at the bone specifically to
see if they're like a depressed skull fracture, there's a
defect in the skull where someone has shot this child
the neck is going to be really hard to figure
out if it was an asphixia case, if it was
a suffocation case. But here's here's the one thing I'll say,
(37:37):
Noel will tell the tale as far as his cause
of death. They have a manner because let me tell
you what rest inside the bones of Noel. It's a
message that's being sent. And it's not the message about
my mama abandoning me beneath a patio. It's the message
(38:00):
of I have bruises all over my body. The message
is this nobody cared enough to feed me and fortify
me and provide me with any base nutrition. And I
think that from that we can say perhaps he was
(38:23):
never loved. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body
bats
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com