March 6, 2025 • 41 mins
On a camping trip to celebrate their one-year wedding anniversary, Joseph Ferlazzo, 42, and his wife, Emily Jean Schwartz, 22, get into an argument. This much is understood.
Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss the case and the evidence that will reveal who is telling the truth—the prosecution or the defense. The defense claims the couple argued, and Emily stormed out of the converted bus, never to be seen again.
Prosecutors allege that Ferlazzo shot his wife twice in the head and dismembered her on the bus.
Transcribe highlights
00:00.00 Introduction
03:29.92 Sharing camping stories
08:00.53 Husband twice as old as wife
14:20.33 Returns home without wife
19:16.42 Relax by getting away
24:26.58 Wife is supposedly in the woods, alone for days
28:35.69 Husband claims he is the victim
33:06.37 Dismembering the body
37:49.67 Father's wife died, never charged
41:25.68 Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Quody dogs with Joseph's gotten more. Since my kids were little.
My wife has been insistent upon camping, and I could,
you know, regal you with all manner of stories about
(00:22):
our camping trips, and generally they involve rain. I've never
been one for tent camping. I'm an old soldier, so
I had to bivohac and that sort of thing over
the years, and it was more of a necessary evil
for me. Now I don't mind going renting a cabin
in an isolated area, you know. I don't even mind
(00:46):
necessarily going out in a camper perhaps tent camping though
it's just work. It's so much work. Some people live
for it. Not my thing. But today we're going to
talk about someone, a couple that did apparently enjoy camping
(01:09):
with a camper. And it's not like a regular camper
that you would go to some large, you know, sales
lot to purchase. This is a camper that was customized.
As a matter of fact, the camper looks much like
the transportation buses that we have on campus, kind of
(01:33):
short going from a stop to stop along the circle
at Jacksonville State dropping off students. But they had converted
it into an actual camper, sleeping area, kitchen, bathroom, with
(01:53):
all of the appointments that you would expect for comfort
on the road. The only problem is is that the
trip that they were taking would end up with one
of them dead and dismembered. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and
(02:14):
this is Bodybags. Dave Mac. Have you ever had your
kids come to you and say, Dad, I want to
go tent camping. I want to go ten camping. I
want to I want to lay on the dirt and
we're going to cook out by the fire and we're
(02:35):
going to sing songs. And they never they never bought
into it at all.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
July fourth, nineteen ninety eight. Yeah, really, and it was
Hannah was still a baby. Yeah, but Ladanna's father had
just passed away on May fifth of ninety eight, and
so we decide, you guys want to go camping. We're
going to go camping. And we were tent camping. Okay,
(03:01):
we had the big tent. We went out there, did
the fishing and everything else, and had it fire. And
it's about nine o'clock at night. And the area we
were camping in it was not rural, it was not
rough in camp it was the campsites and things, but
also it did have a communal air in area where
you could go and bathe. You know, it was a
walking distance where our tent was pitched, and so I
went up there to do that because I was filthy
(03:21):
from setting up the tin. Because all my kids were
young then, you know. Oh yeah, four kids and one
that was only six months old. Okay, And so here
we are, Daddy, Dave and I came back from the shower,
and I'm like, I feel like a new man. My
whole family out here in the woods. How cool is this?
And I get there and I see the kids running
from the van. We had my truck and we have
(03:42):
my wife's minivan. I see them running from the tent
to the van. I won the world. And I get there.
I said, it's nine o'clock at night. Gotta love Alabama summer.
And I said, what is wrong with you guys? Why
are you? I look inside and Loadonna's got the baby,
and the air's running. The van is on, windows are repping,
the air's running, and like it's too hot in that
(04:03):
ten Dad is just too hot. I'm like, no way,
this is ridiculous. Come on, I'm not kidding. So I
opened up the flap. I said, well, you got to
make sure those flaps are open and the wind, you know.
I get in there and I'm not kidding. It was
an oven. It was so bad. I poked my head
in there and went we're out. We went home. I'm
not kidding. We drove home and we're filthy and sweaty
because the kids that it was just it was crazy.
(04:23):
And the thing is on the way home because the
holiday weekend, we get stopped pulling off the highway to
come towards our home. They've got one of these police
identification stops on the UI checkpoint and so I pull
up there, my kids are. We all look like we'd
have been, you know, because I loaded them up. I
mean I had just walked out of the shower from there.
I'm like, get in the van, let's go. I left
my truck and everything's sitting up there. We're riding now.
(04:45):
I mean, we looked like we had been. Oh, it
was bad. It was so bad.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, you never know what's going to happen on one
of these trips because many times the environment does, in fact,
yeah dictate you know the behaviors of everybody there if
you're not all on the same sheet of music, it
can be the worst experience in your life. But then again,
you can have those moments that flash in and it's
pure joy. There you go and you know we've.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Taken it on wheels. That the end of the day
another story. But at least I didn't get mad shoot
him in the head and cut him up, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
And the craziest thing I've ever heard of. Joe. Yeah,
it is anniversary. This is anniversary camping, Joe, this is
this is anniversary camping. They've been married one year.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, you would think that this would be uh, embroidered
with joy upon every step along the way, but this,
this really did turn into an absolute nightmare with this
young couple that again celebrating a one year anniversary and
arguably Dave. They live in a region of the country
(05:55):
that I have always wanted to visit, and that is
Upper New England. Uh, I've never had a chance of
being to Boston many times. I love Boston, one of
the few big cities in America I would actually say
that about but I've never gotten up to see the
beauty that is, you know, up toward the Canadian border
(06:16):
in either Vermont or New Hampshire, and in this particular case,
they're from Vermont, I believe, if that's if that's accurate,
and they were heading out on the road to celebrate,
and there's so much around you it. You know. I
was talking to Kim that we were going to cover
this case and she said, wow, this sounds like Gabby
(06:40):
Patito and I was like, kind of, But it wasn't
like a cross country trip. This is an area that
they're they're you know, they're domiciled in. It's not like
they're they're they've set out on the road, you know,
on the road with Charles carral remember, uh, They're they're
not out on the road to discover America. This is
(07:00):
kind of their home country, you know, the area up there,
and I've always heard about how beautiful it is, but
to visit such horror and truly, Dave, I guess, out
of all the cases we've covered this past month, this
might be one of the most horrific because I couldn't
I couldn't fathom what had taken place in this converted van.
(07:22):
And it's a converted bus. Actually, to be more accurate,
it's a converted bus and I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Pictures I've seen look pretty good.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
They do look good, and it looks like it's squared away.
But Dave, can you kind of fill into blanks relative
to some of the information about the couple, because that's
one of the things that's the age I think plays
into this. For me, I'm hearing about the age, and
so I'm kind of thinking, are we coming from two
different worlds here or what's going on? I'm trying to
(07:51):
figure this out.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Okay, first things first, you know what, there is an
age gap here for a lot. Joseph for Loozzo is
forty one at the time, his wife twenty two, so
she's half his age. That's part one. The problem with it, though,
isn't so much the age difference as it is the
domestic violence issues that existed in their couplehood. Okay, I'm
(08:15):
not going to say that it began the minute they
got married. I'm not going to say that at all,
because it doesn't happen like that. If you we tend
to give a bit of a disclaimer because this does
deal with domestic violence, and there is just a domestic
violence hotline that we will give to you at the
end of the show. But This was something that those
(08:36):
close to the relationship could see coming. They knew that
this couple fought a lot. You know, she seems like
a wonderful person, just everybody loves her. Her dream was
to become a cosmetologist to make people feel good about themselves.
It was something she had dealt with in her life
where she didn't always feel the best about herself. And
here comes Joseph for lootso and I think he played
(08:59):
upon that he was able to wrangle her any You
know a lot of domestic violence men who commit domestic violence,
they control every situation and gaslight their partner to the
point where the other person thinks they're always wrong. Whatever
they've done is wrong, and they deserve whatever bad comes
their way. And in this particular case, they've been married
(09:20):
for one year and they go on their camping thing.
But Joseph Farlozzo comes home and her parents say, well, well,
what's up with Emily? Where's Emily? You know, you guys
went on a camping trip to celebrate your one year
anniversary of being married, and you come home without her?
What happened? He tells his mother in law, or is
(09:43):
Emily's stepmother, and her name is Prudy Schwartz because I
wanted to share this with you. Prudy Schwartz says he
came in and just said that they got into an
argument and she ran off. So you're out camping your wife,
you get into an argument so bad with your wife
that she just takes off away and you come home
without her. That's what he actually came home with by himself.
(10:07):
She ran off deaf for an argument. Who thinks that's
going to work?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I have no idea. And let me say something in
addition to this, she may have had a low self image,
but she's a lovely young woman. Ye absolutely beautiful and
a smile, you know, one of these thousand watt smiles.
It looks like and I think that you're right about.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
He looks horrible. He looks like somebody they should have
married a blind person, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, or someone that lives under a bridge and eats
billy goats. He's horrible, and he probably he probably is
an individual that perhaps, as you had mentioned, gas lighting,
she's revealed this to him about herself. And I can
(10:59):
just of the conversation. Well, I'm the best you'll ever get.
You better be counting your lucky stars. And I think
that a lot of these people that perpetrate, you know,
domestic violence on their partners like this, they have that
ability and they can diminish people, that can demean people.
There are folks right now that are within the sound
(11:21):
of my voice that are either going through that right
now or perhaps have encountered that in the past, where
you're you feel completely diminished and worthless, and then you
have an ogre like this that enters your life, you know,
and just further exacerbates these you know, these images, these
self image issues that you have, and you know, he
(11:44):
he's certainly the ugly one in this case, ugly for
a number of reasons, not just physical appearance, but what
he wants up perpetrating, Dave. The thought is, and here's
another thing, kind of going back to camping, if you
want to control somebody, you get them in a camper.
(12:06):
If you have sinister plans that you're looking to perpetrate,
get them in a camper. Maybe it's something you've worked
hard on. You're a control freak, you're a gas lighter.
No one's going to hear anything. You're there. It's not
like you're on a plane flying somewhere It's not like
you're going to some fancy resort to celebrate your first anniversary. No,
(12:30):
you've planned this because in this I believe, as will reveal,
there is planning that goes in to this horrific crime.
He has the ability to control her movements where they're
destined to and I think, probably in the end where
he would take her life. You know, I know that
(13:05):
there are outward signs I think probably through behavior perhaps
of people that have been abused and mistreated in their behaviors.
You know, they don't do well with large groups of people.
If they're in the presence of their abuser, they will
(13:28):
put on a show or act for that person so
that they're behaving in a manner that they think is
acceptable to the person that's in control of them. But
then there are the other things, you know, they're in
this particular case, Dave, there is a record of domestic abuse,
(13:49):
and from what I understand, Emily actually presented in the
past with injuries on her body.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Is that accurate? The family actually talked about this that
when Joseph lots so they go camping in Vermont, he
returns home to New Hampshire without his wife and tells
the family that she stormed off and that's why they
called police. They didn't find out right away either. I
don't know if I mentioned that. It was like forty
eight hours before he even told them that she started.
(14:16):
You know, he's been home two days and doesn't even
bother to tell anybody. When mom or stepmom starts checking up,
he then says, yeah, she stormed off, We got no fight,
and she calls the police.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Well, that's one of the things. That's one of the
things that my wife had mentioned about this case, and
with similarity to the Potito case. You know, because of
this the dead air, if you will, you know, no
one knows what's going on, and isn't that Isn't that fascinating?
I often wonder you what, how does that actually happen?
(14:48):
I think actually it goes to this idea of they're
trying to figure out what they're going to do next, right,
and so they'll stammer and they'll stumble on their words
and that sort of thing. But yeah, I mean, I
don't know that anybody could have anticipated the storm that
was coming.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
But that's where Prudy Schwartz, the stepmom, says, who waits
two and a half days to even tell anybody their
significant other is missing, even if you have to wait
forty eight hours to call the cop. You tell family something.
And you know what, that actually was probably the most
honest thing I've ever heard anybody say. What she is
saying is, look, you killed somebody, all right, You at
(15:23):
least tell your family what's going on. You know, you
don't lie to everybody close to you while you figure
out what you're going to tell is your story. But
in this case, he doesn't tell anybody that she's gone. Okay,
if you believe his story, I mean, to believe his story,
one has to believe that they were camping for their
one year anniversary, having a romantic time, and for whatever reason,
(15:44):
they got into an argument. And even though you're still
in the honeymoon phase in your first year of marriage,
I mean, if you're not, you married the wrong person.
And in this case, he comes home and doesn't tell
anybody that she left, that he doesn't know where she is.
It's the most ridiculous thing. But you know, he's probably
pulled off so many other lies in his life. And
(16:06):
the worst part is to find out that the family
you mentioned she presented the family mentioned that while police
had been called. And by the way, police are oftentimes
called to loud arguments that are not physical. They haven't
turned physical yet. In this case, the family said they
saw the cuts and bruises, they saw the marks, they
saw the things that they knew they believed were from
(16:29):
her husband. You know, first, it is so weird to
have two different Lodonna things in the first in this show.
When we first got married Laddanna had been a career
person and had always you know, had a career, and
so we decided to raise our children with her at home.
It's something she wanted to do back that's so weird,
single fan household. But she was so used to doing
(16:50):
things during the day that she would move furniture all
day long, moving it from one point. I mean, I'd
come home and trip over something. It was like Dick
van Dyke in the Hassock because it was never in
the same way two days in a row. But the
thing is she also bruised very easy. So we're at church,
been married about three months and the ladies group at
church pulled it on aside when we got to church
one day and they sat her down and said, you're
(17:12):
going to tell us, what's going on? We see the bruises.
What is he doing to you? They were not tolerating.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
It, totally smokes.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, and it was like I didn't find this out
till after the church service, but yeah, I freaked out.
I'm like, what, you know, stop moving furniture, you know.
But you know, the thing is like, why don't people
do that?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
You know?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
In our case, it was very innocent and explainable, and
thank god, her mother was like, no, it's that's the
way she's always been. But if you care about somebody,
step in the gap. Somebody needed to be there for
If you're going to tell me that after she's dead,
that you saw this coming and you did nothing.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Come on, yeah, we uh. We had a case recently.
I think we covered it last week where the grandparents
or the grand father had seen something, remember, and didn't
report it, and of course the child wound up deceased.
I'm amazed by this, you know that, because look, you know,
(18:14):
it's one of these circumstances. You get one shot at
protecting somebody and you might not want to be embarrassed,
but it would be better to be embarrassed and be
sure that nothing had happened. As opposed to well them
going on a vacation and never coming back, and so yeah,
(18:36):
you think about the price that has to be paid,
and yeah, it's a tough bit of business, you know,
to even have this discussion. I think for many people
there in the midst of these sorts of things. Here's
another bit to this with for lots of story, which
is so super bizarre. You know how I told you
I wanted to go and visit Vermont in New Hampshire.
(18:57):
People out there that are listening, don't take this the
wrong way. I don't want to be around people. I
really don't. It's not that I dislike everybody that I
come across, but if I'm going to go and get away,
I want to get away and I don't want to
be bothered. You know. I think ideally it would either
(19:19):
be a small little shack on the beach or maybe
up in the north Woods quiet, you know, my dog there,
having a fire, reading a book, nice, getting a nice
bottle of wine.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Y'all have to understand the reason for that is because
in your professional life, you're constantly on. You have to
always when you're doing an appearance on network television, doing
the podcast, doing the other shows that you do. And
by the way, being a professor at a college and
being a teaching professor, you've got to constantly be on
your game in front of other people and engaging, and
(19:53):
after giving so much of yourself for a while, you
do need that time to be alone and recharge your batteries.
So I understand it hundred percent. I've been around Joe
and his wife enough to know he loves people. But
you got to get away too.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Well. I find I find that when I do finally
get a bit of quiet, tom, I choose to sit
in my chair and I go to sleep, and then
I forget it, so that i've we.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Would do that battle. One time I told Lodna I
would live in the bat cave. I really would like
to have a million I'd like to have a mile
long driveway that just drops off into the woods where
you don't even know where it went, and you'll dave
the next day when I show up at work.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You know, well, I wonder about this relative to for Lasso.
He's saying that this young woman who you know, by
the way, you know when it comes to marriage, and
I view myself and you know, I don't care if
I offend anybody by saying this. I view myself as
my wife's protector. I'm a fierce protector of my wife.
(20:52):
And so you're telling me that this young woman suddenly
out of nowhere, literally walks off into the wilderness. Inarguably
not in the entirety of America, but I would say
probably east of the Mississippi River, one of the single
(21:12):
most isolated areas. And we're talking seriously rural east of
the Mississippi River. You're saying, just so that I get
this straight, mister philosophy, you're saying that she is up
after an argument, decided to wander off and leaving everything behind.
(21:33):
I can't That's hard to fathom from me. When if
I'm sitting there and I'm listening to this individual and
I'm interviewing him from an investigative standpoint, and he's telling
me the story, it just doesn't add up because either
you know that something horrific has happened to her, or
(21:54):
you're one of the biggest beasts on the face of
the planet absent any kind of compassion and love, which
this is all about. Remember they're going on there the
celebration of their first anniversary. You're telling me that you
are going to go home abandoning the person that you have,
you know, stated that you love more than anybody in
(22:15):
the world. You're supposed to love more than yourself, by
the way, and you're going to leave her up there
in this wilderness. It just doesn't make sense, Dave No.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And the part about it that when he says that
she ran off, you know that, you're saying she ran
off into the woods. You know that, and I think
you're accurate in that assessment. That's what he claims to believe,
but he actually spends it around okay, when nobody believes
this story of her just getting lost, because you know,
she's not an idiot, smart person, early twenties, in good health,
(22:45):
she would have been able to find civilization. Right. She's
been gone two days by the time he even reports
her two and a half days, but well before her
family reports are missing. He never did, and so the
idea that she's out there wandering around amless sleep doesn't
hold water either. So they're like, what happened? Now, That's
when they start turning the screws. That's when they bring
(23:05):
him in and say, excuse me, Joseph, Forlotzo, you're forty
one years old, you married a girl half your age.
Come on and talk to us. Now, Now you're going
to actually and this is what I always picture happening, Joe,
and you correct me if I'm wrong. I always picture
people like this. Men that are like this towards are
so weak. They are not the kind of guy that
has friends, because they're horrible people. They're all about controlling
(23:27):
another person who they deem weaker, and that's how they
get their jollies or whatever in life. Now this type
of individual is going to have to sit down with
some real men. And if a woman is investigating this
as a detective as well, she's going to be able
to stand right in his face. They're going to get
the best and worst out of this guy in no time.
(23:48):
Is that a fair assessment of how that interview is
going to take place.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yes, it's very very true. And they you know the
old adage about good cop back cop, And if you've
got a group of investigators sort of work working this,
this thing is scripted. Before they ever begin to talk
to him, they'll say, Okay, I'm going to observe. I'm
going to ask the questions, and the person that is
asking the questions will pretty much stand on task unless
(24:12):
they have pre arranged for them to suddenly interrupt because
you're trying to elicit a response because you know, you
don't initially you don't know where the young woman is. Okay,
she's out in the wilderness for all you know. You
just want to know where she is, and you try to.
I think in many of these quote unquote missing persons cases,
(24:35):
you try to appeal to their humanity. But here's the problem.
If you're absent humanity and compassion, what the hell are
you appealing to. Well, we hit a jackpot here, Dave,
(25:04):
with this particular case. I am proud to say that
once again we have another person, an accused perpetrator, who
is trying to use the famous I blacked out defense.
And you know, I love the fact that you talked
about putting the screws to him, this idea of you know,
(25:29):
we're going to get some answers from you, and if
we have to stay here all day, you're going to
stand up and answer for what has happened to Emily.
And here's the thing. When Emily, or all that remained
of Emily is finally discovered, I'm just amazed that first off,
(25:57):
the police could contain themselves to the point where they
didn't feel like their heads were going to explode or
that they were going to great bodily harm, because what
they wound up finding relative to Emily would shock the
most stalwart among us to your absolute core. He finally
(26:18):
admits that he did in fact kill her. However, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Got to ask you something because yeah, yeah, in that
interview room, you and I have watched these and you've
seen the end results of these. But when they start
talking and they listen to him, you know, they get
the story. Okay, you guys got into an argument and
she left. They're talking to him about his story, and
it obviously doesn't hold water for what you just explained
a minute ago. I mean, what kind of man is
(26:45):
going to let, and this particular case, a much younger
woman leave and beyond her own in the woods. I mean,
are you a real man to do that? And I
would imagine that alone would cause him to go. Look,
we got into a fight, but it's not my fault
because that's what he did. It's not my fault. She
was the aggressor. We hadn't we don't know what the
argument was about. By the way. I don't think he
(27:06):
ever copped to make it up anything. But she was
the aggressor. He was the punching bag. He's the victim. Joe,
have you.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Seen these two? Have you seen the image? This guy
towers over her like bigfoot, this guy, I mean, she's
the minutive, you know, long, pretty blonde hair, and he
stands over her. I don't know, he's two feet taller
than her. He almost looks like and Okay, so let
me get this straight. And I'm not saying that somebody
(27:34):
that is short of sature cannot be an aggressor. All right,
we all know that that's not the case. However, Okay,
you're a grown man, and you're saying she's the aggressor. Yeah,
he talks. He talks about she initiated the physical violence
relative to I think, throwing candles at him, hurling insults
at him, all these sorts of things. And she lays
(27:58):
down on the sofa, apparent at some point in tom
and if I remember correctly, she says something like Okay,
that's it. He claims Dave that she reached beneath the
throat pillar on the sofa, emerged with a handgun, points
(28:19):
it at him, and mysteriously he winds up. He discovers
that he is holding a glock pistol with a suppressor
screwed onto the end of it, and as it gets
into the throes of uber violence, he dispatches her and
kills her. That's the story you're going with, Well, that's
(28:42):
the one that he ran with. That's his defense story.
And it gets better after that, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Well, yeah, well, I'm trying to get to that point
with him where he's actually saying this, you know, and
he's able to make this up. And it goes back
to that gaslighting thing where no matter what happens, he's
pretty ejecting everything onto her. And so you have to
assume that he had planted the glock, because who has
a glock with the silencer that's not planning on killing somebody.
Think about that for a minute. I have plenty of
(29:10):
people that I know that have guns. I don't know
any that have a silencer.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Well, they're easy, they are easy to get. It requires
if you're going to get one, you have to get
a particular there's a special form that you have to
fill out, and there's a waiting period to get one.
But if you have a weapon. First off, you have
to have a weapon that has a suppressor adapter on
the end of it. In other words, the end of
(29:37):
the barrel has to be threaded in order to accommodate
screwing on the suppressor, and it has to the suppressor
has to actually fit the weapon. Well. He has all
of these components, Dave, all right, and it's that weapon
that actually ended Emily's life. The other part this is
(30:00):
that he remains with her body in this van, this
camper that they've created out of a bus, sleeps with her,
remains in the bus for many hours, gets up the
next morning, goes and has breakfast with his sister, all
(30:25):
the while Emily's body is in the van. It's at
some point in time that he acquires or has already
I believe, has already a saw. And it's the saw
and the knives out of the knife block in their
little kitchenette that are used in order to huh cut
(30:50):
Emily's body into eight separate pieces. And he was prepared
with he was prepared with black garbage bags as well
to place her body in. And it's not like this
guy took her body after he had dismembered it. And
then went out into the woods and decided to place
(31:12):
each individual bag in an unseen location. Maybe he buried it,
maybe he took it to a body or no, no, no, no.
He takes all of her remains and then goes into
the bathroom of their van slash camper and retains them.
Then he gets bleach and tries to clean up the scene.
(31:32):
You know, it's when you begin to take the toll
of what this guy did. It's really amazing. And Dave,
there's one piece of evidence that they found. There were
eight bags. Actually, there was one piece of evidence that
they found in one of these bags that completely changed
the story. Do you remember the pillow that I was
(31:54):
talking about she was laying on. Yeah, yeah, she had
her head resting on this pillar.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Rade.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Well, he claims that she that it is something like
out of a spy movie or something. She you know,
sticks her hand under the pillow and produces a weapon
and then threatens him, and then you know, she says
something like this is it, you know, or you're dead
or whatever it is. Yeah, that pillow comes into play.
You know why it comes into play because he took
(32:20):
that pillow. He put it over this beautiful young woman's
head and then takes that glock pistol equipped with a
suppressor and fires through the pillow into her skull and
kills her dead right there while she was apparently laying
on the sofa on her phone.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
This is that's a big time thread, Joe yea, it
is a big time thread. They can kill you, Oh boy, I'll.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Tell you what. It's amazing, isn't it. This might be
one of the most gutless things that I have heard of.
And sometime it's it's bad enough that he did this
to her after having you know, mal treated her for
so long with domestic abuse. It's not enough just to
(33:09):
kill her. Now he's got to dismember her remains and
ride around with him in a bus and then lie
about it to the people that loved her. This is
like the ultimate insult, Dave.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
If it's a defense thing where you're you know, you're
afraid for your life and you're having to shoot somebody,
and again your your wife in this case, why would
you shoot them twice in the head? I mean, wouldn't
one time be enough if you were if you were
afraid for your life. With her laying on the couch
and playing on her phone where it's scaring you to
death and you're shooting just to try to back her off,
you know, and fear that she's going to I guess
(33:46):
psychically kill you. And he shoots her twice in the head.
Then do you think that maybe he because we know
that he chopped her up. But unless you have planned
on this, unless you know a good bit about the
human anatomy, it's not an easy task to cut up
a body. We've covered this many times. Yes, we have
her easy.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
And it's not clean either. And you know he had
laid out, you know, plastic bags on the floor of
this thing in order to facilitate that hints he had
to go back and bleach. But you know there's one
big piece that I forgot to tell you about Dave.
We know that he dispatched her with this glock pistol,
(34:26):
but after having laid around in this converted bus with
her remains, I mean, after hours, he decides with these
knives from the knife block, he takes one, Dave and
he stabs her body. I think it was like upwards
(34:49):
of fifteen times in a post mortem state. This is
before he ever begins his dismemberment. Now you go and
you tell me, can we take the measure of how
polluted this guy's mind would be? And you know those
stab wounds because you're you know, I'm kind of stating
the obvious here. You're stabbing a corpse when you were
(35:11):
when you would examine those wounds, and I can only
can you imagine being the pathologist in you're you're there
and you're you've got bags. There were six bags containing
human remains. So you're opening gently, opening each back and
you're taking out And what we do with dismembered remains
(35:33):
is that we will try it. We don't. You can't
rearticulate a body, but you lay it out on a table.
We do the same thing with skeletal remains as well.
And the board you lay you lay the body out
as best you can in its correct anatomical orientation, and
that way you can kind of appreciate where everything is.
(35:54):
And as simplistic as it sounds, one of the things
you're also trying to do is see if you're missing anything,
because there are you know, there are dismemberment cases where
people will take trophies, you know, and it's kind of
absurd more No, it's not. There's really nothing off limits
in the world of death investigation. There is no absurdity
that's too absurd. You have to consider all of this.
(36:17):
But can you imagine being that pathologist and you're looking
at this body. You have the head, and probably the
heads the first thing you're going to go to, and
you see that she's been tapped twice in the head. Okay,
I've seen that before. But then you go to look
at these other injuries and I'm not talking about the
areas of dismemberment where you're disarticulating the body. I'm talking
(36:39):
about knife wounds. And you're sitting there and say, God,
every one of these knife wounds is post mortem. There's
no hemorrhage in them whatsoever. It's you know, you look
at this and you try to drink all of this
in everything that he tried to do with her body,
but he couldn't seal the deal at the end as
(37:00):
far as just trying to, I don't know, in some
way discard her body or place her body, get as
much distance from him and the body the mortal remains
as he possibly can. I have a real hard time
understanding that. And you know, we've we've had cases like
this where people will kill individuals and then bury them
(37:20):
in their own backyard.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Dave, You know, I was thinking about something along the
lines of for Loozzo Junior and his father, you know,
they when he come up with the crazy story like
he did, and later confessing, and it did come up
in court, by the way, the defense did not want
his confession to police to be entered in. But again,
remember he claimed self defense. You know, it was in
(37:44):
two thousand and nine. Okay, Now this happened in twenty
twenty one, so we're talking it's four years ago. But
in twenty nine, twelve years before, Joseph Forlozzo Junior is
accused of shooting his wife twice in the head on
a camping train and cutting her body up. Joseph for
Loozzo Senior, Joseph Junior's dad, Well, he owned massage parlors
(38:06):
in Reading, Reading, Pennsylvania, and his wife managed. Her name
is jong he Lim for Lootzo. Well, his salon had
been raided earlier by cops, you know, because of prostitution
going on at the salon, and he comes home from
the grocery store in the midst of all this criminal
(38:28):
activity and his wife, young he Lim Falazzo has been
killed with a knife. She's been stabbed to death, and
he was the only you know, because happened when nobody's home.
He comes home from the grocery store late at night
and finds his wife dad, and they never convicted him
for it. Joseph for Loozzo Senior. So twelve years later,
(38:50):
his own son, his wife ends up dead and I'm
wondering he shut her twice in the head? Did he
stab her in? Is some kind of tribute to what
his father did allegedly to his stepmother?
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Just a thought, Wow, And that's an amazing piece to this.
Isn't it interesting? How if an individual, maybe even someone
much younger, had born witness to that level of violence,
do they become numb to it? I have no idea.
You know, we've talked a lot about control relative to
(39:26):
this case, control and gas lighting and those sorts of things.
When you look at you look at a case like
this and you have a subject that would go to
all of this trouble relative to obviously the murder and
then the dismemberment and not want to get rid of
(39:47):
the body, you have to think that there's something else
going on here. That's why I believe that many people
that hang on to remains, bearing them in the backyard,
putting them in the basement, put them in a cross space,
putting them up in the attic, which does happen. They
want to.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Still put those murder victims under the house, under the house.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, John Wayne Gacy did that with I don't know
it was what thirty thirty or approximately thirty young men.
I think that that control element continues on after death.
They still have the desire to control the circumstances in
their life, to control those that they've always had control over,
(40:28):
even in death. And yeah, you could say, well, Morgan,
it's part of not wanting to get caught that you
can kind of dictate the comings and goings. But I
think it's something much deeper. It's a matter of individuals
that want to say in their own way that I
am in control of the world around me, and I
(40:49):
defy anybody to find me guilty or maybe just accuse me.
But in this case, Joseph for Lazzo in fact found
guilty and now he'll spend probably the rest of his
days in jail. Please hear me, right, If you are
(41:10):
anyone that you know is suffering in a relationship involving
domestic abuse. I urge you, with everything that is within
me to reach out for help, and there is help.
You can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at one
eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three. That's one
(41:34):
eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three, or
go to the hotline all one word dot org. That's
the hot line dot org. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and
this is Bodybacks
Quody dogs with Joseph's gotten more. Since my kids were little.
My wife has been insistent upon camping, and I could,
you know, regal you with all manner of stories about
(00:22):
our camping trips, and generally they involve rain. I've never
been one for tent camping. I'm an old soldier, so
I had to bivohac and that sort of thing over
the years, and it was more of a necessary evil
for me. Now I don't mind going renting a cabin
in an isolated area, you know. I don't even mind
(00:46):
necessarily going out in a camper perhaps tent camping though
it's just work. It's so much work. Some people live
for it. Not my thing. But today we're going to
talk about someone, a couple that did apparently enjoy camping
(01:09):
with a camper. And it's not like a regular camper
that you would go to some large, you know, sales
lot to purchase. This is a camper that was customized.
As a matter of fact, the camper looks much like
the transportation buses that we have on campus, kind of
(01:33):
short going from a stop to stop along the circle
at Jacksonville State dropping off students. But they had converted
it into an actual camper, sleeping area, kitchen, bathroom, with
(01:53):
all of the appointments that you would expect for comfort
on the road. The only problem is is that the
trip that they were taking would end up with one
of them dead and dismembered. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and
(02:14):
this is Bodybags. Dave Mac. Have you ever had your
kids come to you and say, Dad, I want to
go tent camping. I want to go ten camping. I
want to I want to lay on the dirt and
we're going to cook out by the fire and we're
(02:35):
going to sing songs. And they never they never bought
into it at all.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
July fourth, nineteen ninety eight. Yeah, really, and it was
Hannah was still a baby. Yeah, but Ladanna's father had
just passed away on May fifth of ninety eight, and
so we decide, you guys want to go camping. We're
going to go camping. And we were tent camping. Okay,
(03:01):
we had the big tent. We went out there, did
the fishing and everything else, and had it fire. And
it's about nine o'clock at night. And the area we
were camping in it was not rural, it was not
rough in camp it was the campsites and things, but
also it did have a communal air in area where
you could go and bathe. You know, it was a
walking distance where our tent was pitched, and so I
went up there to do that because I was filthy
(03:21):
from setting up the tin. Because all my kids were
young then, you know. Oh yeah, four kids and one
that was only six months old. Okay, And so here
we are, Daddy, Dave and I came back from the shower,
and I'm like, I feel like a new man. My
whole family out here in the woods. How cool is this?
And I get there and I see the kids running
from the van. We had my truck and we have
(03:42):
my wife's minivan. I see them running from the tent
to the van. I won the world. And I get there.
I said, it's nine o'clock at night. Gotta love Alabama summer.
And I said, what is wrong with you guys? Why
are you? I look inside and Loadonna's got the baby,
and the air's running. The van is on, windows are repping,
the air's running, and like it's too hot in that
(04:03):
ten Dad is just too hot. I'm like, no way,
this is ridiculous. Come on, I'm not kidding. So I
opened up the flap. I said, well, you got to
make sure those flaps are open and the wind, you know.
I get in there and I'm not kidding. It was
an oven. It was so bad. I poked my head
in there and went we're out. We went home. I'm
not kidding. We drove home and we're filthy and sweaty
because the kids that it was just it was crazy.
(04:23):
And the thing is on the way home because the
holiday weekend, we get stopped pulling off the highway to
come towards our home. They've got one of these police
identification stops on the UI checkpoint and so I pull
up there, my kids are. We all look like we'd
have been, you know, because I loaded them up. I
mean I had just walked out of the shower from there.
I'm like, get in the van, let's go. I left
my truck and everything's sitting up there. We're riding now.
(04:45):
I mean, we looked like we had been. Oh, it
was bad. It was so bad.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, you never know what's going to happen on one
of these trips because many times the environment does, in fact,
yeah dictate you know the behaviors of everybody there if
you're not all on the same sheet of music, it
can be the worst experience in your life. But then again,
you can have those moments that flash in and it's
pure joy. There you go and you know we've.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Taken it on wheels. That the end of the day
another story. But at least I didn't get mad shoot
him in the head and cut him up, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
And the craziest thing I've ever heard of. Joe. Yeah,
it is anniversary. This is anniversary camping, Joe, this is
this is anniversary camping. They've been married one year.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, you would think that this would be uh, embroidered
with joy upon every step along the way, but this,
this really did turn into an absolute nightmare with this
young couple that again celebrating a one year anniversary and
arguably Dave. They live in a region of the country
(05:55):
that I have always wanted to visit, and that is
Upper New England. Uh, I've never had a chance of
being to Boston many times. I love Boston, one of
the few big cities in America I would actually say
that about but I've never gotten up to see the
beauty that is, you know, up toward the Canadian border
(06:16):
in either Vermont or New Hampshire, and in this particular case,
they're from Vermont, I believe, if that's if that's accurate,
and they were heading out on the road to celebrate,
and there's so much around you it. You know. I
was talking to Kim that we were going to cover
this case and she said, wow, this sounds like Gabby
(06:40):
Patito and I was like, kind of, But it wasn't
like a cross country trip. This is an area that
they're they're you know, they're domiciled in. It's not like
they're they're they've set out on the road, you know,
on the road with Charles carral remember, uh, They're they're
not out on the road to discover America. This is
(07:00):
kind of their home country, you know, the area up there,
and I've always heard about how beautiful it is, but
to visit such horror and truly, Dave, I guess, out
of all the cases we've covered this past month, this
might be one of the most horrific because I couldn't
I couldn't fathom what had taken place in this converted van.
(07:22):
And it's a converted bus. Actually, to be more accurate,
it's a converted bus and I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Pictures I've seen look pretty good.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
They do look good, and it looks like it's squared away.
But Dave, can you kind of fill into blanks relative
to some of the information about the couple, because that's
one of the things that's the age I think plays
into this. For me, I'm hearing about the age, and
so I'm kind of thinking, are we coming from two
different worlds here or what's going on? I'm trying to
(07:51):
figure this out.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Okay, first things first, you know what, there is an
age gap here for a lot. Joseph for Loozzo is
forty one at the time, his wife twenty two, so
she's half his age. That's part one. The problem with it, though,
isn't so much the age difference as it is the
domestic violence issues that existed in their couplehood. Okay, I'm
(08:15):
not going to say that it began the minute they
got married. I'm not going to say that at all,
because it doesn't happen like that. If you we tend
to give a bit of a disclaimer because this does
deal with domestic violence, and there is just a domestic
violence hotline that we will give to you at the
end of the show. But This was something that those
(08:36):
close to the relationship could see coming. They knew that
this couple fought a lot. You know, she seems like
a wonderful person, just everybody loves her. Her dream was
to become a cosmetologist to make people feel good about themselves.
It was something she had dealt with in her life
where she didn't always feel the best about herself. And
here comes Joseph for lootso and I think he played
(08:59):
upon that he was able to wrangle her any You
know a lot of domestic violence men who commit domestic violence,
they control every situation and gaslight their partner to the
point where the other person thinks they're always wrong. Whatever
they've done is wrong, and they deserve whatever bad comes
their way. And in this particular case, they've been married
(09:20):
for one year and they go on their camping thing.
But Joseph Farlozzo comes home and her parents say, well, well,
what's up with Emily? Where's Emily? You know, you guys
went on a camping trip to celebrate your one year
anniversary of being married, and you come home without her?
What happened? He tells his mother in law, or is
(09:43):
Emily's stepmother, and her name is Prudy Schwartz because I
wanted to share this with you. Prudy Schwartz says he
came in and just said that they got into an
argument and she ran off. So you're out camping your wife,
you get into an argument so bad with your wife
that she just takes off away and you come home
without her. That's what he actually came home with by himself.
(10:07):
She ran off deaf for an argument. Who thinks that's
going to work?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I have no idea. And let me say something in
addition to this, she may have had a low self image,
but she's a lovely young woman. Ye absolutely beautiful and
a smile, you know, one of these thousand watt smiles.
It looks like and I think that you're right about.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
He looks horrible. He looks like somebody they should have
married a blind person, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, or someone that lives under a bridge and eats
billy goats. He's horrible, and he probably he probably is
an individual that perhaps, as you had mentioned, gas lighting,
she's revealed this to him about herself. And I can
(10:59):
just of the conversation. Well, I'm the best you'll ever get.
You better be counting your lucky stars. And I think
that a lot of these people that perpetrate, you know,
domestic violence on their partners like this, they have that
ability and they can diminish people, that can demean people.
There are folks right now that are within the sound
(11:21):
of my voice that are either going through that right
now or perhaps have encountered that in the past, where
you're you feel completely diminished and worthless, and then you
have an ogre like this that enters your life, you know,
and just further exacerbates these you know, these images, these
self image issues that you have, and you know, he
(11:44):
he's certainly the ugly one in this case, ugly for
a number of reasons, not just physical appearance, but what
he wants up perpetrating, Dave. The thought is, and here's
another thing, kind of going back to camping, if you
want to control somebody, you get them in a camper.
(12:06):
If you have sinister plans that you're looking to perpetrate,
get them in a camper. Maybe it's something you've worked
hard on. You're a control freak, you're a gas lighter.
No one's going to hear anything. You're there. It's not
like you're on a plane flying somewhere It's not like
you're going to some fancy resort to celebrate your first anniversary. No,
(12:30):
you've planned this because in this I believe, as will reveal,
there is planning that goes in to this horrific crime.
He has the ability to control her movements where they're
destined to and I think, probably in the end where
he would take her life. You know, I know that
(13:05):
there are outward signs I think probably through behavior perhaps
of people that have been abused and mistreated in their behaviors.
You know, they don't do well with large groups of people.
If they're in the presence of their abuser, they will
(13:28):
put on a show or act for that person so
that they're behaving in a manner that they think is
acceptable to the person that's in control of them. But
then there are the other things, you know, they're in
this particular case, Dave, there is a record of domestic abuse,
(13:49):
and from what I understand, Emily actually presented in the
past with injuries on her body.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Is that accurate? The family actually talked about this that
when Joseph lots so they go camping in Vermont, he
returns home to New Hampshire without his wife and tells
the family that she stormed off and that's why they
called police. They didn't find out right away either. I
don't know if I mentioned that. It was like forty
eight hours before he even told them that she started.
(14:16):
You know, he's been home two days and doesn't even
bother to tell anybody. When mom or stepmom starts checking up,
he then says, yeah, she stormed off, We got no fight,
and she calls the police.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Well, that's one of the things. That's one of the
things that my wife had mentioned about this case, and
with similarity to the Potito case. You know, because of
this the dead air, if you will, you know, no
one knows what's going on, and isn't that Isn't that fascinating?
I often wonder you what, how does that actually happen?
(14:48):
I think actually it goes to this idea of they're
trying to figure out what they're going to do next, right,
and so they'll stammer and they'll stumble on their words
and that sort of thing. But yeah, I mean, I
don't know that anybody could have anticipated the storm that
was coming.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
But that's where Prudy Schwartz, the stepmom, says, who waits
two and a half days to even tell anybody their
significant other is missing, even if you have to wait
forty eight hours to call the cop. You tell family something.
And you know what, that actually was probably the most
honest thing I've ever heard anybody say. What she is
saying is, look, you killed somebody, all right, You at
(15:23):
least tell your family what's going on. You know, you
don't lie to everybody close to you while you figure
out what you're going to tell is your story. But
in this case, he doesn't tell anybody that she's gone. Okay,
if you believe his story, I mean, to believe his story,
one has to believe that they were camping for their
one year anniversary, having a romantic time, and for whatever reason,
(15:44):
they got into an argument. And even though you're still
in the honeymoon phase in your first year of marriage,
I mean, if you're not, you married the wrong person.
And in this case, he comes home and doesn't tell
anybody that she left, that he doesn't know where she is.
It's the most ridiculous thing. But you know, he's probably
pulled off so many other lies in his life. And
(16:06):
the worst part is to find out that the family
you mentioned she presented the family mentioned that while police
had been called. And by the way, police are oftentimes
called to loud arguments that are not physical. They haven't
turned physical yet. In this case, the family said they
saw the cuts and bruises, they saw the marks, they
saw the things that they knew they believed were from
(16:29):
her husband. You know, first, it is so weird to
have two different Lodonna things in the first in this show.
When we first got married Laddanna had been a career
person and had always you know, had a career, and
so we decided to raise our children with her at home.
It's something she wanted to do back that's so weird,
single fan household. But she was so used to doing
(16:50):
things during the day that she would move furniture all
day long, moving it from one point. I mean, I'd
come home and trip over something. It was like Dick
van Dyke in the Hassock because it was never in
the same way two days in a row. But the
thing is she also bruised very easy. So we're at church,
been married about three months and the ladies group at
church pulled it on aside when we got to church
one day and they sat her down and said, you're
(17:12):
going to tell us, what's going on? We see the bruises.
What is he doing to you? They were not tolerating.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
It, totally smokes.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, and it was like I didn't find this out
till after the church service, but yeah, I freaked out.
I'm like, what, you know, stop moving furniture, you know.
But you know, the thing is like, why don't people
do that?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
You know?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
In our case, it was very innocent and explainable, and
thank god, her mother was like, no, it's that's the
way she's always been. But if you care about somebody,
step in the gap. Somebody needed to be there for
If you're going to tell me that after she's dead,
that you saw this coming and you did nothing.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Come on, yeah, we uh. We had a case recently.
I think we covered it last week where the grandparents
or the grand father had seen something, remember, and didn't
report it, and of course the child wound up deceased.
I'm amazed by this, you know that, because look, you know,
(18:14):
it's one of these circumstances. You get one shot at
protecting somebody and you might not want to be embarrassed,
but it would be better to be embarrassed and be
sure that nothing had happened. As opposed to well them
going on a vacation and never coming back, and so yeah,
(18:36):
you think about the price that has to be paid,
and yeah, it's a tough bit of business, you know,
to even have this discussion. I think for many people
there in the midst of these sorts of things. Here's
another bit to this with for lots of story, which
is so super bizarre. You know how I told you
I wanted to go and visit Vermont in New Hampshire.
(18:57):
People out there that are listening, don't take this the
wrong way. I don't want to be around people. I
really don't. It's not that I dislike everybody that I
come across, but if I'm going to go and get away,
I want to get away and I don't want to
be bothered. You know. I think ideally it would either
(19:19):
be a small little shack on the beach or maybe
up in the north Woods quiet, you know, my dog there,
having a fire, reading a book, nice, getting a nice
bottle of wine.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Y'all have to understand the reason for that is because
in your professional life, you're constantly on. You have to
always when you're doing an appearance on network television, doing
the podcast, doing the other shows that you do. And
by the way, being a professor at a college and
being a teaching professor, you've got to constantly be on
your game in front of other people and engaging, and
(19:53):
after giving so much of yourself for a while, you
do need that time to be alone and recharge your batteries.
So I understand it hundred percent. I've been around Joe
and his wife enough to know he loves people. But
you got to get away too.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Well. I find I find that when I do finally
get a bit of quiet, tom, I choose to sit
in my chair and I go to sleep, and then
I forget it, so that i've we.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Would do that battle. One time I told Lodna I
would live in the bat cave. I really would like
to have a million I'd like to have a mile
long driveway that just drops off into the woods where
you don't even know where it went, and you'll dave
the next day when I show up at work.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You know, well, I wonder about this relative to for Lasso.
He's saying that this young woman who you know, by
the way, you know when it comes to marriage, and
I view myself and you know, I don't care if
I offend anybody by saying this. I view myself as
my wife's protector. I'm a fierce protector of my wife.
(20:52):
And so you're telling me that this young woman suddenly
out of nowhere, literally walks off into the wilderness. Inarguably
not in the entirety of America, but I would say
probably east of the Mississippi River, one of the single
(21:12):
most isolated areas. And we're talking seriously rural east of
the Mississippi River. You're saying, just so that I get
this straight, mister philosophy, you're saying that she is up
after an argument, decided to wander off and leaving everything behind.
(21:33):
I can't That's hard to fathom from me. When if
I'm sitting there and I'm listening to this individual and
I'm interviewing him from an investigative standpoint, and he's telling
me the story, it just doesn't add up because either
you know that something horrific has happened to her, or
(21:54):
you're one of the biggest beasts on the face of
the planet absent any kind of compassion and love, which
this is all about. Remember they're going on there the
celebration of their first anniversary. You're telling me that you
are going to go home abandoning the person that you have,
you know, stated that you love more than anybody in
(22:15):
the world. You're supposed to love more than yourself, by
the way, and you're going to leave her up there
in this wilderness. It just doesn't make sense, Dave No.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And the part about it that when he says that
she ran off, you know that, you're saying she ran
off into the woods. You know that, and I think
you're accurate in that assessment. That's what he claims to believe,
but he actually spends it around okay, when nobody believes
this story of her just getting lost, because you know,
she's not an idiot, smart person, early twenties, in good health,
(22:45):
she would have been able to find civilization. Right. She's
been gone two days by the time he even reports
her two and a half days, but well before her
family reports are missing. He never did, and so the
idea that she's out there wandering around amless sleep doesn't
hold water either. So they're like, what happened? Now, That's
when they start turning the screws. That's when they bring
(23:05):
him in and say, excuse me, Joseph, Forlotzo, you're forty
one years old, you married a girl half your age.
Come on and talk to us. Now, Now you're going
to actually and this is what I always picture happening, Joe,
and you correct me if I'm wrong. I always picture
people like this. Men that are like this towards are
so weak. They are not the kind of guy that
has friends, because they're horrible people. They're all about controlling
(23:27):
another person who they deem weaker, and that's how they
get their jollies or whatever in life. Now this type
of individual is going to have to sit down with
some real men. And if a woman is investigating this
as a detective as well, she's going to be able
to stand right in his face. They're going to get
the best and worst out of this guy in no time.
(23:48):
Is that a fair assessment of how that interview is
going to take place.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yes, it's very very true. And they you know the
old adage about good cop back cop, And if you've
got a group of investigators sort of work working this,
this thing is scripted. Before they ever begin to talk
to him, they'll say, Okay, I'm going to observe. I'm
going to ask the questions, and the person that is
asking the questions will pretty much stand on task unless
(24:12):
they have pre arranged for them to suddenly interrupt because
you're trying to elicit a response because you know, you
don't initially you don't know where the young woman is. Okay,
she's out in the wilderness for all you know. You
just want to know where she is, and you try to.
I think in many of these quote unquote missing persons cases,
(24:35):
you try to appeal to their humanity. But here's the problem.
If you're absent humanity and compassion, what the hell are
you appealing to. Well, we hit a jackpot here, Dave,
(25:04):
with this particular case. I am proud to say that
once again we have another person, an accused perpetrator, who
is trying to use the famous I blacked out defense.
And you know, I love the fact that you talked
about putting the screws to him, this idea of you know,
(25:29):
we're going to get some answers from you, and if
we have to stay here all day, you're going to
stand up and answer for what has happened to Emily.
And here's the thing. When Emily, or all that remained
of Emily is finally discovered, I'm just amazed that first off,
(25:57):
the police could contain themselves to the point where they
didn't feel like their heads were going to explode or
that they were going to great bodily harm, because what
they wound up finding relative to Emily would shock the
most stalwart among us to your absolute core. He finally
(26:18):
admits that he did in fact kill her. However, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Got to ask you something because yeah, yeah, in that
interview room, you and I have watched these and you've
seen the end results of these. But when they start
talking and they listen to him, you know, they get
the story. Okay, you guys got into an argument and
she left. They're talking to him about his story, and
it obviously doesn't hold water for what you just explained
a minute ago. I mean, what kind of man is
(26:45):
going to let, and this particular case, a much younger
woman leave and beyond her own in the woods. I mean,
are you a real man to do that? And I
would imagine that alone would cause him to go. Look,
we got into a fight, but it's not my fault
because that's what he did. It's not my fault. She
was the aggressor. We hadn't we don't know what the
argument was about. By the way. I don't think he
(27:06):
ever copped to make it up anything. But she was
the aggressor. He was the punching bag. He's the victim. Joe,
have you.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Seen these two? Have you seen the image? This guy
towers over her like bigfoot, this guy, I mean, she's
the minutive, you know, long, pretty blonde hair, and he
stands over her. I don't know, he's two feet taller
than her. He almost looks like and Okay, so let
me get this straight. And I'm not saying that somebody
(27:34):
that is short of sature cannot be an aggressor. All right,
we all know that that's not the case. However, Okay,
you're a grown man, and you're saying she's the aggressor. Yeah,
he talks. He talks about she initiated the physical violence
relative to I think, throwing candles at him, hurling insults
at him, all these sorts of things. And she lays
(27:58):
down on the sofa, apparent at some point in tom
and if I remember correctly, she says something like Okay,
that's it. He claims Dave that she reached beneath the
throat pillar on the sofa, emerged with a handgun, points
(28:19):
it at him, and mysteriously he winds up. He discovers
that he is holding a glock pistol with a suppressor
screwed onto the end of it, and as it gets
into the throes of uber violence, he dispatches her and
kills her. That's the story you're going with, Well, that's
(28:42):
the one that he ran with. That's his defense story.
And it gets better after that, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Well, yeah, well, I'm trying to get to that point
with him where he's actually saying this, you know, and
he's able to make this up. And it goes back
to that gaslighting thing where no matter what happens, he's
pretty ejecting everything onto her. And so you have to
assume that he had planted the glock, because who has
a glock with the silencer that's not planning on killing somebody.
Think about that for a minute. I have plenty of
(29:10):
people that I know that have guns. I don't know
any that have a silencer.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Well, they're easy, they are easy to get. It requires
if you're going to get one, you have to get
a particular there's a special form that you have to
fill out, and there's a waiting period to get one.
But if you have a weapon. First off, you have
to have a weapon that has a suppressor adapter on
the end of it. In other words, the end of
(29:37):
the barrel has to be threaded in order to accommodate
screwing on the suppressor, and it has to the suppressor
has to actually fit the weapon. Well. He has all
of these components, Dave, all right, and it's that weapon
that actually ended Emily's life. The other part this is
(30:00):
that he remains with her body in this van, this
camper that they've created out of a bus, sleeps with her,
remains in the bus for many hours, gets up the
next morning, goes and has breakfast with his sister, all
(30:25):
the while Emily's body is in the van. It's at
some point in time that he acquires or has already
I believe, has already a saw. And it's the saw
and the knives out of the knife block in their
little kitchenette that are used in order to huh cut
(30:50):
Emily's body into eight separate pieces. And he was prepared
with he was prepared with black garbage bags as well
to place her body in. And it's not like this
guy took her body after he had dismembered it. And
then went out into the woods and decided to place
(31:12):
each individual bag in an unseen location. Maybe he buried it,
maybe he took it to a body or no, no, no, no.
He takes all of her remains and then goes into
the bathroom of their van slash camper and retains them.
Then he gets bleach and tries to clean up the scene.
(31:32):
You know, it's when you begin to take the toll
of what this guy did. It's really amazing. And Dave,
there's one piece of evidence that they found. There were
eight bags. Actually, there was one piece of evidence that
they found in one of these bags that completely changed
the story. Do you remember the pillow that I was
(31:54):
talking about she was laying on. Yeah, yeah, she had
her head resting on this pillar.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Rade.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Well, he claims that she that it is something like
out of a spy movie or something. She you know,
sticks her hand under the pillow and produces a weapon
and then threatens him, and then you know, she says
something like this is it, you know, or you're dead
or whatever it is. Yeah, that pillow comes into play.
You know why it comes into play because he took
(32:20):
that pillow. He put it over this beautiful young woman's
head and then takes that glock pistol equipped with a
suppressor and fires through the pillow into her skull and
kills her dead right there while she was apparently laying
on the sofa on her phone.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
This is that's a big time thread, Joe yea, it
is a big time thread. They can kill you, Oh boy, I'll.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Tell you what. It's amazing, isn't it. This might be
one of the most gutless things that I have heard of.
And sometime it's it's bad enough that he did this
to her after having you know, mal treated her for
so long with domestic abuse. It's not enough just to
(33:09):
kill her. Now he's got to dismember her remains and
ride around with him in a bus and then lie
about it to the people that loved her. This is
like the ultimate insult, Dave.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
If it's a defense thing where you're you know, you're
afraid for your life and you're having to shoot somebody,
and again your your wife in this case, why would
you shoot them twice in the head? I mean, wouldn't
one time be enough if you were if you were
afraid for your life. With her laying on the couch
and playing on her phone where it's scaring you to
death and you're shooting just to try to back her off,
you know, and fear that she's going to I guess
(33:46):
psychically kill you. And he shoots her twice in the head.
Then do you think that maybe he because we know
that he chopped her up. But unless you have planned
on this, unless you know a good bit about the
human anatomy, it's not an easy task to cut up
a body. We've covered this many times. Yes, we have
her easy.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
And it's not clean either. And you know he had
laid out, you know, plastic bags on the floor of
this thing in order to facilitate that hints he had
to go back and bleach. But you know there's one
big piece that I forgot to tell you about Dave.
We know that he dispatched her with this glock pistol,
(34:26):
but after having laid around in this converted bus with
her remains, I mean, after hours, he decides with these
knives from the knife block, he takes one, Dave and
he stabs her body. I think it was like upwards
(34:49):
of fifteen times in a post mortem state. This is
before he ever begins his dismemberment. Now you go and
you tell me, can we take the measure of how
polluted this guy's mind would be? And you know those
stab wounds because you're you know, I'm kind of stating
the obvious here. You're stabbing a corpse when you were
(35:11):
when you would examine those wounds, and I can only
can you imagine being the pathologist in you're you're there
and you're you've got bags. There were six bags containing
human remains. So you're opening gently, opening each back and
you're taking out And what we do with dismembered remains
(35:33):
is that we will try it. We don't. You can't
rearticulate a body, but you lay it out on a table.
We do the same thing with skeletal remains as well.
And the board you lay you lay the body out
as best you can in its correct anatomical orientation, and
that way you can kind of appreciate where everything is.
(35:54):
And as simplistic as it sounds, one of the things
you're also trying to do is see if you're missing anything,
because there are you know, there are dismemberment cases where
people will take trophies, you know, and it's kind of
absurd more No, it's not. There's really nothing off limits
in the world of death investigation. There is no absurdity
that's too absurd. You have to consider all of this.
(36:17):
But can you imagine being that pathologist and you're looking
at this body. You have the head, and probably the
heads the first thing you're going to go to, and
you see that she's been tapped twice in the head. Okay,
I've seen that before. But then you go to look
at these other injuries and I'm not talking about the
areas of dismemberment where you're disarticulating the body. I'm talking
(36:39):
about knife wounds. And you're sitting there and say, God,
every one of these knife wounds is post mortem. There's
no hemorrhage in them whatsoever. It's you know, you look
at this and you try to drink all of this
in everything that he tried to do with her body,
but he couldn't seal the deal at the end as
(37:00):
far as just trying to, I don't know, in some
way discard her body or place her body, get as
much distance from him and the body the mortal remains
as he possibly can. I have a real hard time
understanding that. And you know, we've we've had cases like
this where people will kill individuals and then bury them
(37:20):
in their own backyard.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Dave, You know, I was thinking about something along the
lines of for Loozzo Junior and his father, you know,
they when he come up with the crazy story like
he did, and later confessing, and it did come up
in court, by the way, the defense did not want
his confession to police to be entered in. But again,
remember he claimed self defense. You know, it was in
(37:44):
two thousand and nine. Okay, Now this happened in twenty
twenty one, so we're talking it's four years ago. But
in twenty nine, twelve years before, Joseph Forlozzo Junior is
accused of shooting his wife twice in the head on
a camping train and cutting her body up. Joseph for
Loozzo Senior, Joseph Junior's dad, Well, he owned massage parlors
(38:06):
in Reading, Reading, Pennsylvania, and his wife managed. Her name
is jong he Lim for Lootzo. Well, his salon had
been raided earlier by cops, you know, because of prostitution
going on at the salon, and he comes home from
the grocery store in the midst of all this criminal
(38:28):
activity and his wife, young he Lim Falazzo has been
killed with a knife. She's been stabbed to death, and
he was the only you know, because happened when nobody's home.
He comes home from the grocery store late at night
and finds his wife dad, and they never convicted him
for it. Joseph for Loozzo Senior. So twelve years later,
(38:50):
his own son, his wife ends up dead and I'm
wondering he shut her twice in the head? Did he
stab her in? Is some kind of tribute to what
his father did allegedly to his stepmother?
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Just a thought, Wow, And that's an amazing piece to this.
Isn't it interesting? How if an individual, maybe even someone
much younger, had born witness to that level of violence,
do they become numb to it? I have no idea.
You know, we've talked a lot about control relative to
(39:26):
this case, control and gas lighting and those sorts of things.
When you look at you look at a case like
this and you have a subject that would go to
all of this trouble relative to obviously the murder and
then the dismemberment and not want to get rid of
(39:47):
the body, you have to think that there's something else
going on here. That's why I believe that many people
that hang on to remains, bearing them in the backyard,
putting them in the basement, put them in a cross space,
putting them up in the attic, which does happen. They
want to.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Still put those murder victims under the house, under the house.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, John Wayne Gacy did that with I don't know
it was what thirty thirty or approximately thirty young men.
I think that that control element continues on after death.
They still have the desire to control the circumstances in
their life, to control those that they've always had control over,
(40:28):
even in death. And yeah, you could say, well, Morgan,
it's part of not wanting to get caught that you
can kind of dictate the comings and goings. But I
think it's something much deeper. It's a matter of individuals
that want to say in their own way that I
am in control of the world around me, and I
(40:49):
defy anybody to find me guilty or maybe just accuse me.
But in this case, Joseph for Lazzo in fact found
guilty and now he'll spend probably the rest of his
days in jail. Please hear me, right, If you are
(41:10):
anyone that you know is suffering in a relationship involving
domestic abuse. I urge you, with everything that is within
me to reach out for help, and there is help.
You can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at one
eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three. That's one
(41:34):
eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three, or
go to the hotline all one word dot org. That's
the hot line dot org. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and
this is Bodybacks
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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