Best of the Bus: Jon Gruden On Coaching Football Again + Competitive Relationship With Andy Reid

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Bust with
was very special guest with us Today, we have a
legend of Clay High School, a legend of Dayton College quarterback.
We have a super Bowl winning coach, mister John Jrudin. Hey,
brother sir, we are excited to have you on. Man.

(00:20):
Obviously we just had you in the locker room. That
show's already come out. But your passion, your love for football,
and you never know what some of these personalities you see.
I remember watching you with like the draft experience, and
watching you get up with players and having quarterbacks talk
about it and you got that look in your eyes
like you do right now having them draw things up.
But truly, you truly love, eat, and breathe football. Where

(00:42):
did that passion start?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (00:43):
I do.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
That's why I love being here with you guys. My
dad was a coach. My dad coached at Indiana, he
coached at Notre Dame, he coached with the Buccaneers. So
I kind of grew up going to the locker rooms
idolizing players, wanting to be a coach. I played at Dayton.
I wasn't very good. My high school is no longer around.
They closed the doors, So I don't have any I
don't have any tapes to show you or approve what

(01:04):
kind of player I was. But you know, when you
grow up knowing what you want to do at a
young age, and then you have an opportunity to get
your foot in the door. It's just just been that
way from the beginning.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
How much of a learning curve was it? Like getting
around your old man and when you were getting integrated
into coaching, just understanding the work that goes into coaching football,
the sacrifice that goes into coaching football, because it's like
you sit there as players, and I've always had aspirations
of coaching, but coordinators, like coaches mine, would always say, hey,
if you find something else to do, you might want
to look into that because all the work you put

(01:36):
in to be a player, it's like, you know, it's
tenfold when you're coaching, because you're there from start to finish,
all around the clock.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
I mean, I was lucky because my dad knew people
and I was able to get started probably ahead of
some other guys would And I got started at Tennessee
the volunteers. They were in a sugar bowl. We beat
Vennie Testaverdi. So I got around Walt Harris, a great
offensive coach, and I was lucky man, because when you're
around people that know the game inside and out, that

(02:02):
can set the tone and put you on a routine
and you try to accumulate knowledge every day and challenge you.
That's just the environment I've always been in and one
I've tried to create. So uh, anyways, it goes by fast.
Look look at me now, I'm busting with the boys.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Man hit the big time. All your accomplishments has got
to be top five. When you coach for your graduate assistant,
right for the Tennessee Volunteers. Do you hold any love
for the volunteers now? Are you a fan of the balls?
All the places you coached at, do you like still
hold it near?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh God, I love Tennessee. I met my wife there.
My wife cheered at Tennessee. I was a cheerleader. My
wife was dating Johnny Major's son, Johnny Major's legendary coach
at Tennessee. She's dating Coach major son, and they broke
up and I went in for the kill man. But uh,
I absolutely love Knoxville, Tennessee, love the volunteers. We have

(02:56):
property up in the Smoky Mountains, Severeville near Dolly Would
and we go back a lot. We just love it.
Who are in the playoffs too?

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Who are your college teams in Tennessee and Indiana? Are
those of the well?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
My dad coach at Indiana Notre Dame. I coached at Tennessee,
University of Pacific who dropped football, and Southeast Missouri State,
University of Pittsburgh. You were at Simo Yeah one year?
No shit, Cape, Girardo Man, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Bro, I get a little nervous.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
I saw when I saw Dayton on the Wikipedia playing
college football there. I was sticking. I wonder if he
has any love for Ohio State. But it seems like
you just stayed in the Indiana category home.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, pretty much. I mean I loved my experience growing
up in Ohio. My dad coached at Dayton, made a
lot of connections there. What a staff he was on
at Dayton. John McVay, who became the forty nine ers
GM was the head coach. But most of my ties
are places i've coached. Those are the things I can
remember the most.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, what is your What do you think about this
barstool barstool media world? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Man, it's totally different. You know, I never had a
Twitter page, I never had anything. I don't know anything
about social media. I used to give everybody a hard
time about doing it. Now I'm taking selfies, you know,
with George Brett in the airport. I mean, it's it's
really awkward and different. It's a wild game.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Even even when we finish a locker room, you're like, hey,
put your helmet on, let me yell at you.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yeah, get this on cameras.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
It seems like you're diving in the game quickly.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
I'm trying. And I got some great guys, as you know,
the guys that run the place, Dave Portnoy. These guys
are interesting, man, They're really creative. To put it mildly,
I got to go on the golfing thing with Frankie
and Trent. We had some people come down to my
office last weekend and I'm I'm I'm anxious to see
what is going to unfold. But I just want to

(04:39):
do good. I want to be part of the team
and try to find my role. If you're not producing,
so I said, I said, give me, get me out
of here. I got my I got a couple of things.
I'm getting better at and this is all part of
the seasoning process. Hanging around with you two guys. You know,
I'll steal some ideas from you. This is a hell
of a setup, man. It's about, you know, telling the truth,

(05:02):
having some fun, making some people laugh, and making them
think outside the box a little bit.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah. Yeah, it's like getting to have this like you know,
we were talking about it, either on the locker room
or outside of it. What you miss the most is
the camaraderie. You missed the locker room. Yeah, Unfortunately, we
get to have people on like yourself, players that are
currently playing ex players to where you still kind of
get that feeling that ball busting and having fun having
some laughs because you do. You just you missed the
locker room so much. When it's over.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Oh it's what you what you can't duplicate, but you
guys are doing a pretty good job of it, you know,
just giving guys shit. That's what I tried to do
every day. I tried to stir the pot.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
Man.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
I'd come in there one day and try to make
you guys laugh, and I'd go to any extreme measure
I had to go to make you laugh too, because
sometimes you guys are grouchy bastards every day, no doubt.
You know, they need to laugh. Yeah, you gotta make
them laugh. And then the next day I might try
to fire you up, hey luans, you know, you know,
and then the next day you might really try to
piss them off, like I might really try to piss

(06:00):
will component.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
So you got seven shades of smoke. When you're coming
in going to get.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Well, you just don't want to just install twenty two,
Hank and here's you know, here's eighteen, Bob. After a while,
you know, you get a little bit bored. You got
to try to make it fun and you try to
stimulate your guys. And I think that's when they play
their best.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Who's the best pot string coach you've been around?

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Ray Rhodes. Ray Rhodes was the head coach of the
Eagles when I was the offensive coordinator. He was a
secondary coach of the forty nine ers when it all
started for me. He had Ronnie Lott. He had a
great group back there. He was a combination of Richard Pryor.
He was a comedian and he was a great technician,
a great technical football guy. But he would create analogies.

(06:46):
He would speak in analogies that were awesome, and he
used those analogies and his teaching methods. Ray Rhodes was phenomenal.
One of the great coaches I've ever been around.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
What about motivator?

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, motivation, motivation, I uh, i'd be a hard one.
I'd have to think about that for a minute. But
I've been around some good ones. About you. Who's the
best motivator You've been around?

Speaker 3 (07:11):
But I mean, Bo Polini was a hell of a motivator,
I bet dude, honestly, Like I've told Taylor this. I
don't know if I've said it on the bus, but
you are a hell of a motivator. I mean when
you're what was that When I came out there, it
was like my seventh year and you're a veteran. You're
coming out midyear, and usually, like when you're a vet
and you've you've had some years in the league, you've
heard everybody speak, you've heard all the speeches and everything else.

(07:33):
But I remember you just had us after a practice
one day and it was getting my piss hot, and
it was like one of those things You're like, Yo,
this is the fucking you hear all this stuff about
John Gruden and everything else. Now I get to play
for him, and uh, you walk away from just that
that post meeting motivational Talkie gave, and it is it's
one of those things because then coaches try to do
it and it's like you understand what they're trying to do,

(07:54):
but it's not like it's not getting you fired up
or it's not making you think. You're like, oh, I
wonder what, I wonder what Taylor thought about this speech?
You of go and laugh about it. But you were
somebody that always felt like you had the right words,
the right tone, the right time, And so I would say,
I would say yourself, coach Vrabel, he can get going.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Uh, your brother Rabel was more of a matter of
fact yeah, but very expressing to you, like the keys
to the game. But in a way they were like,
fuck af we just do these three four things were
going to.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
And the night before a game when he'd start running
a highlight table, like you tell us they're talking about
us this way, they're talking about us that way. Tell
me we can't block on the edge, tell me we
can't make plays in space, tell me we're not you know,
all those different things. They get that would get you
fired up. Your brother he was more of a he
was more of a comedian.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
He would take some like rap lyrics or song lyrics
and bring it out and we'd like have fun. Jay's awesome.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
You know a lot of times. Let's the assistant coaches.
I remember when I was in Tampa. We all know
Mike Tomlin now is the head coach. He's a great motivator.
You should hear him in the room with his secondary guys.
When I was coaching for the Bucks. He was a
great motive. But Rond Barber, John Lynch, he had those
guys frothing at the mouth. Rod Marinelli, our d line coach, Yeah,
was phenomenal. Some of my really you know, bad words

(09:08):
I learned I learned from Marinelli. Al Davis was a
great motivator and he used any method to get you
fired up.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
Masacia Casatia is good.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
I think you try to hire guys that can handle
their players. I hate assistant coaches that come into your Hey,
we Taylor Luwan was three minutes late. Hey, Will Compton
wasn't paying attention in the meeting room. Go get them
to pay attention. You know, that's your job. You know
what I mean, I like coaches that can run the
show and really get these guys charged up in their

(09:39):
in their own individual worlds.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, when it came to coaching and you're talking about
like one day you would try to make guys laugh,
then motivate, then piss them off. What like, how did
you learn that I need to go about these different
ways to motivate different players? Like was that something you
knew right away as a coach by watching your dad
or is that something you gained over time?

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well, pretty much, you're not when you're the head coach.
You're not just motivating the left tackle. You're not just
going into a team meeting to motivate the quarterback or
the wide receiver. You're trying to get everybody on a
common thread. Everybody's got to see this together. And you know,
I just think the more camaraderie you can generate, the

(10:18):
better chance you have. It's a long season, and I
think it's it's important to laugh at each other, you know,
get guys up there, have them talk for a minute
or two balls, bust each other's balls, including your own.
And that worked for me for a while, But I
think I pissed some people off and Unfortunately, that's the
way it goes.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
When now talk about talk about you pivoting throughout your
career because the game is a lot different now you're
busting our balls. You guys are much more sensitive these days.
We had we had Mike Alstott on the bus and
he's talking about how soft the league is now, Like,
how have you had to kind of adapt your philosophies
over time?

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, I mean I did Monday night football for nine
years and during those nine years I got away from
the Players' Association. How practices have changed. You know, you
can't hit the quarterback below the leg. A lot of
different rules have come in players safety big issue, but
the big thing is coming back and coaching. You have

(11:14):
to adapt to the rules, but you still have to
push the envelope. You got to create repetitions, repetitions the
mother are learning, whether it be walkedthroughs, whatever it is.
We have to develop players, and you guys will admit
these college kids coming out, they are not as far
along as people think they are. A lot of these
guys are transferring year to year. They're only one year starters.

(11:39):
They're really raw and you need time to spend with them.
But you got to push the envelope. You got to
adapt to the circumstances that are laid out for you.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Go ahead.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
We would know. We were talking about the transfer of
the NI on the last episode of Busting with the Boys,
how it's got to be so difficult as a college
coach to go up to a player and be like,
these are the things you need to work on and
be a little bit harder on them, a little more
tough them, because it's like, I'm just gonna go somewhere
else get paid the same amount. Do you think there's
going to be like a drop in the talent level
in the NFL the next five to seven years with

(12:09):
guys not kind of, because you have to be forging
fire a little bit. When it comes to college. You
have to go through the ship, the six am winter
conditioning type of situations, and a lot of guys when
it get too difficult now, they'll just leave and if
they're not pressed to move forward and grow, they're gonna
be a less than player. Do you think there's gonna
be a you'll see toughness, yeah, raw without mental tough We.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well, we just said the thing I think is the
key ingredient in being a pro football player. It's mental toughness.
I don't care where you go, what round, or who
you play for. You're gonna get your ass knocked off
in the NFL and the media is gonna jump on
you the That's just the reality of it. And if
you don't have mental toughness to lean on, you're out.
You're gonna be gone early. But I worry about the

(12:51):
state of college football, what we're doing. I mean, these
guys are pulling out of bowl games. Guys are in
the nil portal before the season is over. How would
you look at your teammate if you had a left
guard playing next year at Michigan. It's entering the portal
before you play in a bowl game. That would probably
piss you off.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
It's totally the playoff, Like the portal's open now. It's
like these teams are going to try and make a
push to win a national title, and you got guys
kind of flirting with the next girl. Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
It's got to be just because when Will and I
were in college, it was you pick a school, you're
at that school for four years. If you want to transfer,
you have to sit out for a year and lose
a year of eligibility, So there's a lot of risk
if you want to make it that dramatic of a change.
So you either, you know, buy in or get the
fuck out. And I could not imagine sitting next to
a left guard or a tight end and blocking with

(13:41):
them while they're like going gonna go to some other school,
whether it's in the SEC or another school in.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
The Big Ten.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
That's got to be difficult for players to deal with.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
The worst one would be just knowing a guy's bitch
about the situation and you're trying to go, like win
a football game.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, it's like, brother, we're trying to win this game.
That's all matters. And Will and I are a big
drink the kool aid. Guys like we when we were
playing our sport on our team, it was like we're
living and breathing and dying for that team.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
I really didn't want our scouts to bring in a
lot of players that were transferred players, guys that quit
at Michigan and went to Notre Dame and went from
the I wanted guys that were finishers that started and
finished the job, signed up and executed their mission. Now
you're going to have to adapt to that philosophy. You're
going to have to take some guys that are bouncing around.

(14:25):
But I've met with some of these kids that have
entered the portal and a lot of it has to
do with their situation. They don't have money, they don't
have two parents, they weren't raised with everything given to them,
they don't have any money, and all of a sudden,
you get somebody off you seven hundred thousand or six
hundred thousand dollars. You can't blame these guys for chasing
their dream and improving our family situation.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
And if you never had money before, it's hard to
look at seven hundred thousand dollars and say no, I'm
going to hold out and wait. Yeah, there's another train
of thought too. It's like, if you've been broke your
whole life, what's being broke a couple more years and
being a part of something special. Yeah, that's kind of
the selling point. If you're a Kenny Dealingham from ASU,
it's like, listen, we can't offer you all the money
in the world, but there's something special going on here
and eventually you're gonna make that money. It's it's just

(15:09):
hard man.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, they just need to find a way to not
make it free agency all year round.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, because the coach all recruit.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
You're already recruit your ass off to get the next
guys in, but you got to recruit your ass off
for the guys that are there. And then these portal
situations and opportunities open up, like while you're in the
middle of a season. So I just feel like something,
there's got to be a solution that's gonna come.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, you guys come from a big time. You guys
come from Nebraska, Michigan. I played at Dayton. You know
I got friends at coach in the Mid American Conference.
Just picture yourself at Toledo or Western Michigan or Kent State.
You're coaching your ass off. You find these players that
aren't five star players, that are maybe one star players.
You feed them, you develop them, and as they become

(15:47):
all conference players in the Mid American League, sophomores or juniors,
here comes Nebraska, here comes Michigan. You take all my players, man,
and you pay them, And what do I get? You
know what I get? I get nothing that pisses me off. Man.
So the smaller schools are the ones that are getting
punched in the mouth, and you know that's just part

(16:09):
of the program.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Right now. The friends and coaches that you know and
have are they is like some of their philosophy just
recruiting guys about hey you can be this could be
a steping zone. I'll get you to the next league.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, I mean recruiting now is it's a totally different deal.
You got some guy walking in your office that's managing. Hey,
I got Taylor Luwe and Will Compton. This guy's represent
you to guys and he's telling me, Hey, if you
want Luwan and Compton, you got to pay him this
and pay him that. And if you pay me, I'll
make sure you get these two guys. So now you're

(16:42):
dealing out. You're dealing with a lot of variables that
has nothing to do with football, and it's a problem.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
It's a problem. That's a good point.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Did you tweet something yesterday about agents seeking twenty percent?

Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, Look, there's there are agencies and I mean you
were with CAA, Like, there's a agencies where you get
like in the NFL, it's bigger contracts, bigger money to
where you're paying them one to three percent. And then
if you have like a marketing rep. There's there's like
a ten to twenty percent cut that they take if
they were to get your twist the tea or body armor,
you know what I mean to be like in a commercial.
So I understand that there are quality agencies that command

(17:18):
ten to twenty percent in total off of you know,
two three hundred thousand dollars. I understand that the problem
I have is knowing that you have and you learned
about in college, that these runners that take place, like
you could be represented by Coach Gruden. He's your agent,
he's your agency. I could be somebody that goes to Tennessee,
Nebraska and Michigan just doing my own thing and getting

(17:39):
your market understanding. Hey, if Taylor hit the portal, what
would he be worth? Four hundred thousand, five hundred thousand,
six hundred thousand dollars? And then I DM and message
you and start to poach and do all these things,
and I know nothing about your situation, your experience anything.
I'm just trying to make a quick buck off you
because I know I can get twenty percent if I
start dangling these carrots in front of you, like, hey,
I know you're with him making three hundred thousand, but

(17:59):
I'm telling you right now and feeling the temperature out there,
you can make up to seven hundred thousand if you
come with me. And so there's just so many muddy waters.
Nobody's out there, you know, telling all the truth of
it all because everybody it's just an open market. The
business has got to figure itself out. College football has
got to step in and put some parameters somewhere, and guys, unfortunately,
are gonna have to kids are gonna have to, unfortunately
learn the hard way at times. It's gonna have to

(18:20):
sort it self out. But that's like the issue I
have is knowing that I get it. It's a business,
it's an open market. We live in a free market.
We want players to get paid. College Foe makes millions
and billions of dollars off this stuff. I understand all that.
But we know at the same time too, like we
were those players. We were those guys in college, and
you understand how important development is, how important adversity is,

(18:40):
how important being forged in the fire is. And maybe
you are in a situation where, hey, you should transfer.
There's a lot of guys that just get the wrong
information and bad information and they're getting bad mentoring, or
they're getting no mentoring at all. They're just chasing money
when it's like, you know, I just hate to see
that happen with kids. I like to see that happen
with college football because it hurts the product and ultimately
leads into the NFL to where that's you know, that

(19:02):
becomes a bad product because the fundamentals and technique is off.
It's way worse just because of the quality. These kids
aren't going and choosing football because they want to be
great football players. They want to, they think they want to,
but then they get bedazzled by money and everything else.
And again I understand it. I just hate this wild
West that we're living in because it's hard to figure

(19:22):
out what this NIL world is because nobody really talks
about it whole lot. There's a lot of shit that
goes on.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
That was really fucking well. I mean, that was well
said right there.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
I mean think about it, like, you know, coach Norvale,
he's with Colorado State, he was kind of talking on it.
But coaches can't speak on it too much because you
don't know all the legality is going on. Right you're
in with the NIL collective, like they have their own
stories and drama. Coaches understand what their situation is. Players
understand what their situation. It's just it's fucking bizarre right now.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
And as a coach, as a college coach, your whole
thing with these young players is eighteen to twenty two
year olds is all about limiting distractions. And when we
were you know, oh, now I was nine to thirteen,
you were eight to twelve. Yeah, when you're there in college,
then it's it's a game of like limiting distractions with alcohol,
with assholes and women like that. Those are the those
are the big three pillars. Now you're throwing money in

(20:08):
the whole thing too, because as a as a player,
you're looking at that pot of gold at the end
of the of the dark tunnel. But now there's little
flickers of lights with a little bag here, a little
back there that can get you on the wrong path.
And then you don't get fours in the fire, you
lose a technique and you become a lesser football player.
That hurts you in the end that when you're twenty
five years old, a couple of years in the league,
that second contract might not be as good, which would

(20:29):
be way more money than you would have ever made
in college. So it's a it's a whole thing.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
I just I just hate the money hungry.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
It makes it interesting, though, because really interesting. Man is
sitting here looking at you two guys on this bus. Man,
I mean I've known you guys as players and I've
seen you guys on this bus. And to think that
you guys have turned this into I mean an unbelievable deal.
I mean, you guys are killing that. I just I

(20:55):
hate to interrupt you guys and change subjects, but this
nil kind of rubbs me wrong. But you know, success
on the field is one thing, but transitioning, Like I
just for all the young guys out there, can you
just tell me how you transitioned into this thing right
here and have created and reinvented yourselves here. This is
pretty freaking cool man.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, if you want to take the first part of that, yeah,
because it's a story We've told a lot on the bus.
But it is just cool.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
But a lot of players, you know, they get out
of football, they kind of search for their next game,
their next thing. How did you guys do this?

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yeah? I speaking for myself, I feel like I was
in I was in year six with the Tennessee Titans,
and you know, coach, like when I got to play
for you, like I cut my teeth into the league
with your brother at Washington. And in my situation, if
I'm a backup and a special teams guy, I don't
want anybody to get hurt. But if I'm gonna get
my opportunity, you know, you're gonna need the guy to

(21:49):
go down in front of you and then hey, I
get to show them what I'm about. I can show
them that I can rock the Green dot, do all
those things. And so when I didn't get that opportunity
in my sixth year, I'm kind of sitting there with myself.
You know, there's things I'm interesting it in. I know
I want to coach have interest in like the real estate.
You're trying to You're trying to figure out where your
curiosities go because at some point the game is going
to end. It's going to end sooner than you think.

(22:09):
It's probably not going to end on your terms like
most guys. And so just knowing that I loved podcasting,
I end up asking Taylor if he wanted to start
a podcast with me. He was all in, And I'm
kind of thinking to myself, like, people do make money
in this podcasting world. If we could, you know, if
we could you know, have the uh, if we're able
to spin it and transition and use this as a

(22:31):
transitional point, like how great would that be? And so
for me, it was like, all right, I'm going to
start a podcast. I could play myself out of the
league because nobody in the NFL world's really doing it.
McAfee retired to go into barstool Media and then the
media in general. But nobody's really doing it. And I
know how coaches and I know how front office and
people can feel about players being on a public platform,

(22:52):
especially when it's like I'm not. I wasn't in a
situation where I'm getting a big second contract like I
was going into that offseason knowing I was going to
be a ninety man guy having a fifty three roster
and who wants any of that luggage or extra drama.
So I'm like, if I play myself out of the league,
but it's you know, if we're able to transition and
create something, like you know, then that's just the risk
that I'll take. Fortunately, I got to continue doing it

(23:13):
and being on the podcast doing the podcast, being on
the bus, going to play for you, playing with the
Tites again and doing it for a few more years.
But ultimately for me it was like, hey, this game
is going to end at some point. I need to
understand where my interests are, where my curiosity lies, and
try to do whatever I can to have the autonomy
to do it myself before I have to go like
work for the man, and who knows if I'm working
for the man, if it's going to be in the

(23:34):
right situation. When you're done playing football, we get catered
to our entire lives. The structures there, You get a
motivational speech, you understand how tough it is, you want
to be forging the fire. You have all those skills
to transition. However, you don't get the highs of playing
at that elite level of the NFL, right going out
there on prime time, winning with the band of brothers.

(23:55):
And when that gets pulled away, a lot of guys
struggle because it's like, where's our next roller coaster, Where's
our next high We played on such a high level.
The logo even though they tell you, Coach Gruden, you
know you guys got to sacrifice for this logo. Everything
you guys pour into this. We're doing it for a team, team, team, team.

(24:15):
The minute the team is you're not on the team anymore.
That logo isn't calling you back to make sure you
get your next job. So it's all about how can
we control our situation. And I feel like we've been
able to create Busting with the Boys, and it's been
incredible because the big thing you miss when you leave
is the locker room, right, We've gotten to create something
off that. But that's like, that was like my train
of thought going into Busting with you.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, And it's it's interesting because you kind of see,
like Will and I's pass how different they were entering
the NFL, Because when I got a scholarship offer in Scottsdale,
Arizona for the first time, it's from Utah State. Right
then and there, I thought to myself, I'm going to
the NFL. Like that is now my my path of
life has now is very clear.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
And as a.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Football player who lives breeze and eats and loves the
game of football, you truly think the most audible death
is probably to die in between the hashes, Like that
is kind of the way you want to go. You like,
you look in the mirror before a game with tears
in your eyes and you think if today is the day.
I go like, it's a good fucking day and it's
time to go out there. So for me, I was
always a guy that's like I was never focused on

(25:15):
what's next. I was always focused on right now, and
it was, you know, playing well and getting to the NFL.
So I go to Michigan, I become a first round pick,
and when Will Compton comes to the Tennessee Titans, I
just signed the biggest deal in NFL history for an
offensive lineman. To me, everything is going according to plan,
where I'm not seeing the inevitable end of what every
player has to go through. Even if you're Tom Brady

(25:36):
who can beat Father Time, like you were always going
to the game's always going to walk away from you
before you walk away from it. So when Will approaches
me about doing a podcast, I'm thinking to myself, dude,
like I guess and I just in my head I
canmpartmentalize it as like well, people do real estate, people
do stocks, Like this is the same thing. It's just
an investment. I just happen to be in the public

(25:57):
eye and you mentioned it in the locker room. I'm
not like you're stereotypical offense lineman, a scene not heard
type of guy. I'm very much seen and very much heard.
So like it was an opportunity for me to kind
of like allow this personality to come out. And it
was like, you know, to me, I thought like, I
don't know what this is going to be. This might
be just a fun little game.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Guys, take a couple of video games in there at home.
It's like you're coming in.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, just coming coming, ripping a podcast. And it turned
into this and it couldn't have happened at a better time.
I remember I bought so the house I live in now.
I bought the land and I was building and Will
and I were walking around the property and it was right,
it was like right before the season or right after
the season, and it Will was like, this is my
last year. I don't want to do it again. I
played that game with him for three more years. Every
year it was this is my last year. I don't

(26:38):
want to do it again. And then it was like,
you know, maybe they could sneak in get rid of camp.
And then he started playing the game and so like
while we're both still playing in the NFL, Bustin's kind
of just like chugging along and grow getting more and
more followers and people are more we go into all
barstool early and often, which you're gonna come to find out,
is like the greatest teacher in this world. It's that

(27:00):
gives you the ability to be yourself unapologetically be yourself
the good and the bad, and be everyone be like,
that's all right, You're a part of Barslool. You can
do whatever you want here.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
And so it is.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
It's interesting how it all turned out, and you just
got to look back and you're like, it's kind of
fucking crazy. Like in my mind, I'm like I kind
of just lucked into this. I kind of just like
fell into meeting Will, and Will wanted to do this
and he didn't. He wanted the safety blanket of doing
with somebody else and I.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
Have I mean, we had safety chemistry too.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, it's beautiful.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
Like when you signed the big deal, there's a part
in my brain I'm like, well, the team won't be
able to touch him because he's the highest paid player
on their team. Hey, if I play myself out, I'm
just not going to get a phone call again. Yeah,
it's like, fuck it. Let's just knew we had three
years of guarantee to do what.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
We want to.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
End up working out, ended up working out for it,
ends up calling and I go out to I go
out to Oakland.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, but you've dealt a lot of transition too when
you were going from the NFL into commentating, Like a
lot of coaches try to do that. A lot of
coaches try to dip their toe into the media space.
But you came in and you murdered it.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
The ability to know.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
What every player's college they went to and their mascot,
and you just talk about guys as if you've known
them for twenty years. How did how was that transition
for you from going from coaching to media.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Well, I was a communications major in college. I always
wanted to do the news. I always wanted to be
a sportscaster. Really if I wasn't going to coach. Oh,
excuse me.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
If you want to answer that too, DD, whatever you
gotta do. Yet you kind of want to take that,
don't you.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
No, I'm sorry I didn't turn it off. But Mike
Tariko was the key for me. I mean, I got
I got fired. I was really humbled. I was really down,
and the NFL network called me and asked me to
come to the combine and do some segments covering the combine.
Steve mary Yucci's a friend of mine.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
I says, come on.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
So I got right up to the combine. I said,
I can't do it. I was just humiliated. I didn't
want to go to the combine and see all my
coaching friends after just being fired. I was embarrassed. So
Mooch says, come on, let's go. So I ended up
doing it, and I guess I did pretty good. And
some guys at Monday Night Football saw me and we
had a chance to interview. But when I met Turico,
long story show short, he helped me big time. He

(29:05):
threw me great fruits that I could hit. He would
hit me, you know, and probe me, and he really
helped me with my preparation and my confidence. But it
was a transition. It was pretty interesting. I really enjoyed
the three man booth when we had Jaworski up there,
because we would bust each other's balls and it was
almost like three guys at a bar watching a football game.

(29:26):
That's what I felt like, But it was a great transition,
a lot of fun, and it allowed me to get
the tapes, keep studying. We got our quarterback camp going
in the spring, which kind of kept me going with
the draft and ultimately led to my return to the Raiders.
Unfortunately I did last long.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
Yeah, to talk about how hard it was to transition,
you're talking about being embarrassed and humiliated, you are like
a you were like a super Bowl winning coach and
you were somebody who got traded.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, well that was hard too. But you know, when
you get fired, you guys know it is eventually. Even
you got cut, it's it. Maybe you decided yourself, but
maybe you saw the writing on the wall. At some
point somebody says you're fired, and it catches you. But
when I did go back, it was it was a

(30:14):
lot different. The world had completely changed. What's really hard
is hiring a coaching staff. When you're the head coach,
the most important thing you got to do is hire
the right coaches. I'm going to call the plays and
coach the quarterbacks. That's just how I did it. But
you better hire the right defensive staff. You know, you
better get the right personnel group around you that sees
the vision that you have for the team or vice versa.

(30:37):
We have to see it the same way. But that
was a big challenge is surrounding yourself with guys that
you grew up with. A lot of those guys had
their own jobs. They couldn't get out of their contracts.
It's a pain in the ass, man, getting your network
together on the same staff so you can go in
and do what you want to do.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
When you are picking out those coaches, you're talking about
your buddies. How hard is it to get a phone
call from a guy that you may have known for
a long time, that you know is not the right
person for the job. What's that conversation? Long?

Speaker 3 (31:05):
Man?

Speaker 2 (31:06):
It is hard, you know. You got to say I'm
going in another direction and you lose some friends. It's
hard to have a lot of friends, you know. Sometimes
you gotta turn a guy down. You can't do it.
You got a job open, Hey, I need the job.
I don't have a job. I need this job, and
you got to let him down and sometimes it costs you.
But there's a lot of hard lessons and mental toughness

(31:28):
that you gotta understand come with being the head coach.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, when you were in media for those nine years.
Was the goal always to get back in the NFL
and be a coach.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
It was initially I thought I'd be right back in
doing something right. But the more I got around Turrico
and Jaworski and the dun dun dundah. I mean, I
love that song, man, And there was a certain as
a kid growing up, I love Monday Night Football. My
mom and dad would let me stay up to watch
the highlights at halftime, Howard Cosell and Frank Gifford. I

(31:57):
felt honored to be on Monday Night Football, but I
ultimately knew I had to get back on the sidelines.
And I still miss it, man, I still would like
to take one more swing. But right now I'm busting
with the boys, and I'm with Barstool and I'm having fun.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Man, are you hoping to get back on the sideline?

Speaker 2 (32:17):
I mean, you know fantasy. I live in fantasy world
a little bit. I'm no different than I was when
I was eighteen years old. You know, I fantasize about stuff,
and I still fantasize about getting a can of whoop
ass and going out there with a bunch of guys
and just kicking a shit out of some people. I
just liked that competitive game day feeling. I just you know,
you can't get that anywhere else.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Man, the butterflies, the juice. We were a smelling salt guy.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
No, I never did that. I never had to do that.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
But the smelling salts were always It just adds that
level of anxiety to a whole new fun level. Yeah,
but dude, when the Jets fired for their head coach,
I think it was was it Booger came out and
he's like, one name you need to think about right
now is John Gruden. And for the last couple of years,
your name wasn't really thrown around the whole coaching realm,
and all of a sudden, your name is now starting

(33:05):
to find its way back into the NFL. When you
start to hear that, are you getting phone calls about anything?
Or are you just the media is starting to talk
and you're letting them do their thing, because that's how
everything works. All it takes is one person to say
your name and then it's slowly, like a snowball, just
starts getting bigger and bigg as it rolls down a hill.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Just a few conversations you know. I think the big
thing I'm trying to do right now is coach people
that I have. The FFCA have an office, I have
my own I have my video tapes, and I'm obsessed
with it. We have a lot of coaches, a lot
of players, just different coaching staffs that have come in
and we study football, and I really am getting my

(33:42):
fix doing that. I really don't need this nil stuff.
I would give me a heart attack.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Would you coach college?

Speaker 2 (33:49):
You know I might if it was a big program
with a lot of nil money, because I'd buy a
lot of players. Yeah, and I guarantee I could walk
across when we play Nebraska. You know what I'd do
after the game, I'd go find the two or three
guys that aren't playing a lot that I like. I'd say,
you know what, you got to get your ass out
of here, come play. I would do a good job
of that. Yeah, I can see my snaking. But now

(34:10):
I'm wired. I just I just am not wired like
they're doing business now in college. I can't deal with
a lot of this financial you know, paying you a
million dollars in the weak side, linebacker gets a hundred
for this guy here, This guy gets nothing. I just
have a hard time with the salary structure and the

(34:31):
whole overall operation. But that's just me.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
When you see a guy like Bill Belichick with the
resume that he has looking at UNC, is it confirmed now?
Is he now the Tar Hills head coach?

Speaker 3 (34:44):
He's willing to coach? At the time we're recording this,
the post that I saw was like the North Carolina
Tar Hills they would know their decision within twenty four hours.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
With Bill Belichick coaching now in college? Like, what's your
thought process seeing that?

Speaker 2 (34:58):
I'm not really shocked as many people are. I think
he's got a son who's a very good young coach.
The opportunity to maybe bring your son with you at
Chapel Hill. Chapel You guys have been.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
At Chapel Hill.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
There's a lot of good stuff there. Man to go
to Chapel Hill, you know, finish your coaching career with
your son, perhaps get the program back to where people say, wow,
we got to play North Carolina and maybe someday have
your son take over. Maybe that's something that's in the cards.
I don't know. But he's got a new girlfriend. I
see that all over the internet. Things don't ever stay

(35:31):
the same, you either get better or worse, and I
think Belichick might be looking for something a little different.
How would you like to live in New England for
fifteen years? You go to Chapel Hill, girlfriend, has some fun,
kick some ass and be with your son.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
You know.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
I think Belichick is capable of doing just about anything
in football. He's already done it, and good for him
if he chooses to get into the NCA. How would
you like that? Though? If you're coaching in the ACC,
you're at Wake Forest or you're at Duke, you're the
Miami Hurricanes, and you open up with Bill Belichick.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
I know.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, I was impressed how well he's done in the
media this year. I did not think you heard, like
Gronkowski and Edelman and Brady kind of like chirp about
to talk about how bland he is and how he's kind.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Of got to see it for fifteen years.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, got to see it, just kind of talking to
the media. Now he comes in, he's doing Manning cast,
he's on Pat McAfee show, and he does an incredible job.
Did you expect that?

Speaker 2 (36:26):
No? I really didn't. But as I said, I I
don't know Bill Belichick like a lot of guys do.
I don't hang around with the defensive guys. The offensive
guys get on this bus. The defensive guys have always
been on that bus. But I remember when I was
coaching the Raiders, I got a call from Bill and
he says, hey, I heard you like bon Jovi. My
wife loves we love bon Jovi. I go, yeah, we

(36:46):
really do. Like he's playing in San Jose Saturday night.
You want to meet him and get two tickets? I say, hell, yeah.
So I've always been indebted to Bill Belichick. He's a
cool guy, man. I mean, he is a really cool guy,
and I just think it's exciting at his age to
reinvent himself and come back, perhaps as a college coach

(37:07):
says a lot about him.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, you talk about you have this football facility in Tampa.
What does your week look like?

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Like?

Speaker 3 (37:14):
When do you wake up? How is your routine on
a day to day? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (37:17):
I got to have a routine, you know, Monday through Sunday.
I have to have a routine. I always did as
a coach. But Monday, I really like to go in
there and look for my grinders, studying and looking at
the Sunday the games, the statistics, the playtime percentages, who
did what? My tapes really come in Tuesday morning. So Monday,
I'm kind of, you know, getting my boards ready. You know,

(37:39):
who really played well in third down? Who had the
best scoring game? I want to see those games. How
did Russell Wilson throw for four hundred yards? I can't
wait till the tape comes in. But I kind of
set up my Tuesday film study based on what I
see Monday, and then Tuesdays like an all day. That's
why it's crazy. I'm here flying out on Tuesday. I
couldn't get to my tapes, man. But you know, then Wednesday,

(38:02):
I try to work on my presentation. I believe you
got to do the preparation. You gotta study the tapes
for me to say this guy's playing good. I want
to see that he's playing good. If this guy's playing bad,
you read about it. I gotta see he's struggling, you know.
But I do the preparation. Then on Wednesday, I start
the presentation, start to send out my boards. You know
who I like, and I draw all my stuff up,

(38:25):
and then Thursday I get into some behind the scenes things.
I like to study. Red Zone just different short yardage things,
different running backs, just different things. But I love to
study three hard days and then I do like to
get out on Friday if I can't hit the golf ball.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, I've been waking up throughout the week.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
I get up early, four thirty five o'clock, not like
I used to. But my office is right down the
street half a mile from my house.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
So let me just pause you for a second. You
said four to thirty five o'clock, and now I used
to what did you used to get up?

Speaker 2 (38:55):
I see up three o'clock three seventeen every day. Three
seventeen was my number?

Speaker 3 (38:59):
Really? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (39:00):
What time would you go to bed?

Speaker 2 (39:01):
I go to bed early. I go to bed a
nine thirty ten o'clock. I try to be in bed
by ten, ten, ten o'clock.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
The latest hit ten ten. That is that's wild? What
is that? What are the hours look like when you
are the head coach? Are you there till midnight and
waking up it?

Speaker 2 (39:14):
No? I could never do it at night. And I
didn't want my coaches to feel like they had to
come in at three o'clock or four o'clock. I didn't
want them to feel like that at all. But I
had to get in there early. Nobody bothering you, nobody's pitching,
nobody's phone's ringing. I had to focus my concentration on
the scripts, you know, the cards you got to draw
the cards, the tip sheets for the quarterbacks. And you know,

(39:38):
I try to get out when the work is done.
You know, I did not want to be in there
all night. Now. When I worked for the Raiders, Al
Davis was a night guy, so I would be a
morning guy and Al would come in at seven o'clock
at night. He almost killed me that first year. Finally
I said, hey, something's got to give, man. I just can't.
I can't stay in here till midnight. But that was
a tough year. My Al broke me in.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Pretty good man, we had and I want to talk
about I want to talk about the time you recruited
me to come back to the Raiders. Yeah, if you
can remember, I'll recall it a little bit. So I
was there the last five games for Oakland. We had fun,
like we weren't having the best season, went out on

(40:21):
a decent note defensively, and coach Grwen brings me in
for an exit meeting. You know, not like the n
I l Ex meetings where it's like, hey, you gotta
pay me this or I'm not coming back. But he
brings me on an exit meeting. Coach's like, I need
Will Compton back, Like you're not going to be a
Hall of Famer, You're not going to be a pro bowler.
I'm sitting there in my head like, I mean, I'm

(40:42):
still playing, Like, yeah, I understand I can't be a
I probably won't be a pro bowler, but I can
still aspire myself a little bit.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Of juice and still could be a pro bowler. Thought
that right.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
He's like, I want you around. We need more. Will
Compton's on the team, and I don't know what's going
to happen in free agents. Se YadA, YadA, YadA. Cause
I got to play and start like three games there
at the end, which I'm thinking in my head when
I went out there and I did my workout, I
was on the squad, I was in the backup, all
was special teams. I was starting in base that fucking
first week. Coach grew comes up. He's like, hey, just

(41:15):
don't even think out there, go out there and make
plays that fun. I love you, man, That's awesome. Who
would you play first week the Lions. Will played the
Lions the first week, and uh so I ended up
taking over the job finishing out those three games. And
so I'm thinking of my head, I thought I was
coming out there to kind of finish out my career, like,
let me go out there. I'll go out on a bang,
have some fun before the boys, bring some merchandise, promote busting,

(41:38):
and just have a good time because the stress is
off of like I felt like my career was kind
of done after I got injured with the Saints, and
so it's like, oh, okay, I get to go out
here and play like I'm just gonna go out fun
and play finish off playing the game that I started loving.
And so when I played those three games, I'm thinking
in my head like maybe I might get a little
maybe I might get a little something I knew. I
bought myself a year or two just because I got
to play again. I got to have some film. But

(42:00):
they're going to recruit me. They pay fifty million dollars
to like Littleton and Kwakowski, great linebackers, good linebackers. But
I'm thinking in my head, like, you know, I thought
I might get a little bit of I thought I
might get a little bit of coin two or three.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yeah, guaranteed money is what he wanted.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yeah, everyone does, every player does.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
What I'm gonna interest it in, though, is I have
this philosophy. It's called RCEE. You should get a hat
and put RCEE on it. Recognition, communication, execution. I think
you got to have it. At quarterback. The guy's got
to recognize the defense and then communicate the line, call,
the audible whatever, and that's going to lead to high
levels of execution. The thing I loved about Will is

(42:38):
he could recognize the offense, he could recognize the situation,
and he could communicate better than most guys I've seen
at linebacker. He was a sharp guy, and that would
lead to higher levels of execution. A lot of the
yards you see are bullshit yards, bad tackling, bad defensive
entry mistakes, a lack of recognition, a lack of communication.

(43:00):
And if we can have that piece and a secure piece,
that's what I was really after. But you were, let's
be honest here, you could come out with that smiley
face with that microphone. You wanted guaranteed money, and I
can't blame the guys go out to California and play football,
you know Vegas.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
Uh yeah, that was the first year of transferring, transitioning
to Vegas because they had offered I had a minimum
on the table with no signing bonus, which is like
the games the game. There was no market for me.
So they were in a spot to where it's like,
I mean, nothing else is out there for you. We'll
offer you this. And you know, I got PG calling me.
He's like explaining everything. He's like Coach Gruden's like, I
just want you around. I want to see you. I

(43:37):
want them to see you communicate all this stuff. You
don't have to practice, you don't have to do this.
And I'm thinking to myself, like I just came out
there as a minimum player and proved that I could
play like the week of the game, like I can
do the same exact thing, and I put where in
turn of my body for training camp, right, And I'm
telling this always training camp with you? It was always yeah,
it was always training camp. And PG was like, can

(43:58):
you call coach Gruden and telling the same stuff because
he's coming in. He's like, how are we signing Prince
of Mukamaru and Nelson Aguilar and Will won't come out
here to the Raiders. I'm like, yeah, I'll be happy
to talk to him. I call coach Coach Cruden and
I think he was just finishing a workout. It sounded
like he was sweating a little bit. He's like Will Compton,
He's like, you're harder to sign than Keyshawn Johnson. Man,

(44:19):
how do we get you out here to the Raiders?
And I'm thinking, yeah, I bet you over Keyshawn Johnson
more than a minimum and a Subway gift card. And
we're like bantering, laughing back and forth, and uh yeah.
I always loved that story. I couldn't wait to tell
my old man because he's always been a massive fan
of football and yourself. But that's my recruiting story with
Coach Cruden. You're harder to sign than Keyshawn Johnson man.

(44:40):
I'm like, well, fuck, he mean he's getting me. I'm
sure you paid him some money.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, you had some characters in that Raiders team. Was
what was your interactions like with Richie and Cognito love him,
great guy.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Incognitos out of football. He had the episode with Miami.
He's out of the league and we brought him in
for a workout and we have the cones set up.
We got Tom Cable, really good line coach, been with
Seattle a long time. And Incognito comes out and he's
listening to Tom Cable tell him what he wants him
to do. He wants him to hop basically the first

(45:12):
ten yards Karayoka do a couple other things just to
showcase his athleticism and his you know, his whatever. How
he can bend and twist. Incognito goes around the thing
one time half speed, and Cable goes, I've seen enough. Really,
he's a great apt Incognito is a really good at
People don't understand that he went to Nebraska. He's a

(45:33):
little full of shit like Compton, but you know, he
has the it factor that we needed. He had the nastiness,
he had the he has the Taylor Luwan personality. He's
very outgoing, He's not afraid to say something. He'll make
you laugh, he'll piss you off. He had everything we
needed at guard and he could pull on the power

(45:53):
plays and it just he has a great ability to
get out on screens. But I love being around him.
Comes to Tampa, we played golf a little bit. He
likes my wife. My wife's about this tall, and he's
been through a lot in his life, but he's he's
he's really a character. We had Vontez Perfect. We had
traded for Antonio Brown. They put us on hard knocks.

(46:16):
What a collection I was assembly you guys. Yes, I
was trying to bring back the old Raiders, eighty Raiders.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
You did it? How was it?

Speaker 1 (46:24):
What was it like having Perfect and Ab on the
same team, because obviously there's a whole thing about CTESPN
that AB's doing. And you see that hit that Perfect
put on Ab, Like, was there ever? Did you have
to make amends there?

Speaker 2 (46:38):
I never got around Antonio enough. You know, Antonio showed
up on a hot air balloon. He had his feet fried,
he had cryo therapy. I never even heard of crowd therapy,
and he had an issue with his helmet. He wasn't
happy the NFL wouldn't let him wear his helmet. So
we really never got him around the guys very much.
I didn't have very much interaction with him at all. Really,

(46:58):
one of the most frustrating things my coaching career was
not getting him to play for us. We had a
mini camp. I tell you, we had a Mini Camp
back in Oakland. He put on a display. He took
some of our routes that we like to call Looki's
I got all these words. He made the routes look
better than anybody I've ever seen. His conditioning was sick.
If we didn't have a fence around the field, he

(47:20):
might have got killed by a car. Because he finishes everything.
He'll run one hundred miles an hour.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
I thought.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
I went home and got hammered. One night after Mini Camp,
I told my wife and said, we're going to complete
every pass. That's how good this guy looked. He was phenomenal,
and unfortunately I never got him for one freaking game.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
What's the conversation with Mayok when they're like, hey, what's
the problem with ab And they're like, doesn't like his helmet? Oh,
his feet were fried from CROYFD therapy. What are those
upstairs conversations like when you're trying to deal with a
guy like that.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Well, Mike was a new GM too, so a lot
of this stuff is his first time and experience.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
It was.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
It was a rough deal and you're on hard knocks.
Then he got Vontez berfect. But the two of those guys,
they mixed pretty good. They kind of laughed with one another,
and Richie was kind of like the third part of
the party. Those conversations were great. Yeah, how you talk
about busting with the boys, you should see some of
the boys I bust with. But I always felt this,

(48:16):
if you have football character on your team, and we
felt our coaching staff. You know, we had Derek Carr,
we had some really good veteran players, good football character.
Let's bring in some characters. So we bring in Perfect.
You know, Perfect really is. He's a great guy, and
he's a smart guy. He just knocks the shit out
of you. And what's wrong with that? I mean that's

(48:38):
my feeling. And uh, I think if you do have
the character in place, you can bring in some characters
and have some fun. And Richie Incognito is a great guy.
Don't don't don't kid yourself on Perfect either. He's really
smart and he's really a hell of a guy. He's
misunderstood perhaps by some. And I really enjoyed Antonio Brown.
I mean, hell, he went out with my son. He

(49:00):
a song. They got a song out there. I'm not
even gonna tell you the name.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
We gotta find that.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Sum will definitely find that thing before day's end.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
And even on Incognito too, like he was he was
how old was he? He was like the oldest player
of four and he was a pro. I'm talking about
like whenever practiced any had the massage therapists. I'd be
coming in the needling. He'd beginting done like somebody who
like took care of his body around the clock and working.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Out with him in Arizona. He is a guy that
like doesn't necessarily look like an athlete, but is truly athletic.
Like he has all the pieces of an office line
you would want. He's stout too, Incognito.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah, I mean we remember the COVID where you can't
have meetings with the players in person, so we would
have zoom meetings, so you would see all the players
on their little corner. You'd be having an offensive line
meeting and you'd see the fifteen offensive line. He'd have
a team meeting and you could see a lot of
the faces. So I remember Incognito one time I took
all his clothes off, was walking around in his garage.

(49:58):
You know. He he just did things that were so
off the wall, hilarious. Uh, to keep everybody laughing. God,
bless that guy.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
Killer man.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Yeah, he has an aged a bit that face.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
You got to see him hit a golf ball.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
He can play. He's an athlete. Is he is an athlete?

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Man, He's the wrong person to get on the bad
side with the football field. He was one of those
dudes that was a menace on just field. Goal was
trying to finish you on field?

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, man, I wouldn't want to
wouldn't want to deal with that.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
You want to get him going to hopefully draw a penalty.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
I wish I was able to play with him. I
would I would have loved to play. I think that
he was with Buffalo for a minute. There was a
little bit of talk about him coming to the Titans,
and I was like, man, that'd be awesome to play
right next to him for a year.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
This you you played, You played one of the toughest positions.
There are, man, who are who are some of the
guys now that play left tackle that you look at
and say, he's he's really good?

Speaker 3 (50:54):
Are they? These days?

Speaker 2 (50:55):
It's easy to say Trent Williams, he's not playing right.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yeah. Well, Trent to me is I think is the
greatest of all time. I think he is from an
athletic standpoint, from a strength standpoint understanding, because with the
offensive line, like you're playing every single snap of the game,
and they say to go hard every single play. He
is a true understanding of like if you're the backside
on power and you're doing a hinge, like you have
a very easy job. You take care of the big gap,

(51:19):
you wing out, the end's coming down, you just block
him out real quick. So he he does a great
job of picking and chooses his times to attack in
the game. A guy that I like, I love his
feet is Lamry Tunzel. I know we talked about Houston
having some struggles, but I think his feet are maybe
the best feet of it I've ever seen. I think
Ronnie Stanley, he's got a poetic movement about him when

(51:41):
he's in his past set. He's very smooth and a
guy that who's who was injured and has now come
back and I played with him. Jack Conklin talk about
a guy that has zero technique, has zero fundamentals when
it comes to playing the position, but just always gets
the job done. I like those guys quite a bit.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
They got a guy in Tampa I really like this
Tristan and worse.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yeah, Tristan he's a power player.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Have you seen have you seen the video and he
was coming out for the draft that he's jumping out
of the pool.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Who can do that?

Speaker 1 (52:09):
That that type of power is just different. And then
we talked about him too, is Joe al I like
Joe Alt quite a bit too. Like a young guy
who's found his way on a run heavy offense that
I'm a big fan of.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
And embracing the move the right tackle. Yeah, because you're
talking about that, like you know, some guys that he
was telling you at the draft he didn't want to play.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Yeah, that is that's incredible. It's wild how Iowa gets
these offensive linemen, man, I know.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
And then white cornerbacks.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Yeah, the uh? And then Micah Beckton?

Speaker 3 (52:40):
Was it?

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Micah Beckton, That's what we were talking about.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Beckton left tackle. He's out of Louisville. He he you know,
he goes to New York and the media gets on
him and they let him go and he gets with
the right coach and reinvents him, puts him in there
right guard.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
It's it's it's really important for these the position groups
at all times. I'm sure it's important for everywhere, but
for an offensive line coach, especially because you got DB's
and they're all like, they're not playing as one unit.
They all have their own jobs. So might being zoned.
So might be a man you're playing two high, one high,
and then receivers. You have all your different routes. But
with an offensive line, it's like, truly all five guys

(53:15):
have to be on the same page with what everybody's doing.
That's just such a different job. You need a good
offensive line coach to be successful. You gotta have it.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Oh my god, that's that's probably the most important higher. Yeah,
if you're the head coach, your defensive coordinator, and your
line coach, you know you gotta get somebody that can
be the sixth man that can play both guards and
center a swing tackle. Those are tough jobs.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Man.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
What were those conversations like with the swing guys when
you're saying you have a guy like me, I was
a guy that only played left. I couldn't you put
me in a right hand stance. I'm as worth as
the football player as you'll ever see.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Well, I think the good line coach, well, you're the
left tackle. You're you're the highest paid left tack. We're
not going to talk about you for a minute. But
other guys on the practice field. Bill Callahan was my
line coach for a long time. Yeah he's with the Titans. Yeah,
Son's the head coach. But he would go out on
the practice field and we'd have Lewan playing right guard.
I'm like, Bill, what the hell are you doing? You know,

(54:10):
and then we got Luwan's playing right tackle two days later.
But my point is he would create your versatility. He
would force you to get in a right handed stance,
a left handed stance, a two point stance, a four
point stance. And I think you have to have a
line coach and a backup line coach who studies a
play side the backside. It's always on your ass every

(54:30):
second of the day. Those are what the great ones do,
you know? And I think, as you said, that's a
key part of being a great lineman as who's coaching
you With Rabel.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Rabel was always a guy that would just find his
way into the offensive line room and he would just
tell us how to block. I having no idea how
to block offensive line. He just like just getting away.
All you have to do. You don't just position block
this guy. Were you ever a guy that would just
wander into position groups and just hang out for a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Not really. I was pretty much always on the offensive side,
you know, but I would try to reach out to
the defensive guys later in the week. I always had
a lot of respect for our past rushers. You know,
we have to have a fourth quarter pass rush or
we got no chance. That's why I can't wait to
see these playoffs Warren sapp, Simme and Rice. You have
to have guys that can close you out. And that's

(55:17):
why I love the forty nine ers if Bosa plays.
But now without Bosa, without Armstead, they don't have that
fourth quarter pass rush. That's why the Chiefs can win
the Super Bowl every year because they do have a
great coach and a great quarterback. But they got a
fourth quarter pass rush, man, And if you have those three,
you have to have those three elements I think to
win it. But I was always interested in the game
plan of our past rushers. What are you gonna do

(55:40):
to Luan? You know, what are you gonna do to Luan?
But as you know, you don't want to be in
third and seven You don't want to have a lot
of third days, you know, and when you do get
the third and seven, you gotta be careful as a
play caller to make sure we have a chip over there.
We got somebody nudging the guy quick game screens. You
got to do some things to help these guys because
in a noise against some of these guys, it's a bit.

(56:03):
It's a hard job you got.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
You've either got to chip these guys, slide to the
most dangerousass rusher, or have a quarterback that can facilitate
and get the ball out quickly.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
That was one thing.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
We had Ken wizzen Hunt for twenty fourteen and fifteen,
and Ken was like, this is my offense, but he's
been dealing with Philip Rivers for the last ten years.
So we have Jake Locker and Zach Mettenberger. Eventually, after
Jake hurts his thumb and it's all key right and
key left, we're doing six man's protections. We're not doing
chips ever, and we don't have the quarterback that understands
the offense well enough to know where his hots are,
where to get the ball out, or where the man

(56:33):
side protection is. With von Miller, on that side, So
it was tough slend for a couple of years. You
need those chips, you got to have them. One play
that you're obsessed with Spider two, Why banana? What's the obsession?
It's a man, It's a max protection type of situation,
a low red type of situation. Why do you love

(56:53):
it so much?

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Andrew Luck? We had Andrew Luck on our show, Gruden's
QB Camp, and David Shaw, the head coach of Stanford,
was on my staff in Philly and in Oakland. Well,
Stanford runs a lot of Spider two white banana. And
I have never met a quarterback coming out of college
like Andrew Luck. I mean he had everything six four
two forty, he could run and probably the smartest guy

(57:16):
I've ever met play the position. So they're running Spider
two white Banana at Stanford unlike I've ever seen. And
I'm just studying getting ready for Andrew Luck, and I'm
seeing Spider two Wive and ass, Spider three Wive and
Ass fight. The guy's putting on a clinic, throwing, throwing,
but Spider two white banana. They must have thrown fifteen touchdowns.
I'm not shitting yet. So they're playing USC. Stanford is

(57:37):
playing USC. Big game college football game day, is there?
Spider two? Why Banana is very simple. You hit the
full back in the flat or at the tight end. Pops,
you might hit the tight end of the corner. You
never throw the ball backside on Spider two? Why Banana? Well,
Andrew luck on Spider two, Why Banana against USC throws
a pick six throwing to the backside. He called it

(57:59):
a light being route or something. So as soon as
I got to that play, his face got red as
a sheet and we busted his balls on that. Yeah,
and it just kind of went viral whatever the word
is you guys, use you know when something hits with fans.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
But it was.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
It was a cool moment and ever since the Spider
or two, whye Banana?

Speaker 1 (58:19):
But it is a hell of a play.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
If you're running power, if you're running a rock, if
you're running Mike alstot a ninety six power and your
linebackers are worried about tackling that big sum bitch, watch out.
We'll slip it full back into the flat.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Spider two or two. Who are some of the teams
right now that are kind of in the middle of
the pack, that you could see winning the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
I think Pittsburgh and Baltimore, I think someone's gonna come
out of the North, you know. I I still think
I still think Pittsburgh's dangerous. I mean, they're leading their division,
but when you look at their schedule, them in Baltimore,
I kind of consider them as the middle of the
pack in the AFC. That's a that's a tough question

(58:59):
for me. I I really think there's five or six
teams that have a chance to win it. I think
there's about twenty teams that are getting ready for next year.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Yeah, what is your view of the landscape of football
right now? The quality of the product.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
I just think continuity is a big part of winning.
When you look at Andy Reid, He's been there, he's
done that. He's been in Kansas City, Mike Tomlin and Pittsburgh,
John Harbaugh and Baltimore. Dan Campbell's been in Detroit, Shanahan.
You know. I like the teams that are in the
money every year. It just seems to me, like have
been together the Philadelphia Eagles, Syrian he's been there now

(59:35):
a few years. I just think there's a lot of
change over now. Teams change coaches, not just head coaches,
offensive coordinators, defensive coordinators, And I think it's a problem
with the development of players. You guys can speak on
this when you're a first year player, when you're a rookie,
it's an eye opening deal. Man, I don't care what round.

(59:55):
But when you came back as your second year in
the same system, that's when you probably showed your most improvement.
But when you keep pulling a rug out of you
players and here's a new snap count, here's a new system,
it's a it's a hard deal to get better, don't
you think?

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Yeah, absolutely, you're on that like level one learning curve
in that first year, and then again when you go
into years two, year three, you're looking at them details.
You're thinking outside the box. You're trying to think more
like a coordinator than just your own position. You're thinking
about everywhere, everybody else around you have everything moves around you.
But yeah, when it's a new system, it's like you
just want to understand what your job is.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
You understand, right, you understand the bigger picture going into
year two as opposed to just you your assignment for
your play calling. Was it always the same? Did you
always keep the same numbers, you say ninety six power
Spider two wiping in it. Do you always have the
same terminology and phrases going from year to year? Did
you ever try to switch it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Up a little bit?

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
I took a lot of pride in the verbiage I
learned under Bill Walsh with the forty nine ers, Mike Colmgrin.
We had a lot of words and we became very worthy.
But when I was out of football and I came back,
we realized that a lot of these players, you know,
we got we got to tighten up our communication so
we can pick up a player off the waiver wire,
make a trade whatever, and bring you in and fast

(01:01:08):
track you. You don't have time to learn all these crazy
words and what they mean. So we did streamline it
a little bit, but we still had a lot to
say because we had a lot of formations. We had
a lot of motions, a lot of personnel groupings. And
if you want to have a big airport you want
to take flights everywhere, you got to make sure you're
organized you have the ability to do that. I'm just

(01:01:29):
I never like these teams that line up in trips
right and clap their hands and put the ball in play.
You know, I like multiple looks. If the defense hasn't
seen it, they can't prepare for it. It's an illusion
of sophistication, but we're just simple and basic plays that
start off looking the same, that are different. You know,
there's some common threads in philosophy. I think that you

(01:01:50):
got to have if you're going to be any good
at it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
How much football do you feel like you forgot when
you were in media for nine years? Terminologies your playbook.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
I probably didn't much, just because I have my own
computer at home, and when I watch the first play
of the game, I type in the formation. A lot
of times. I even type in the front. So now
you save your work and I can come back and
be my own quality control guy. It's a sick, obsessed
world of football I live in, and that's why it's
kind of cool to get out of it. And it's

(01:02:20):
almost like I'm out of prison or something.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
I mean, I'm playing golf with these guys and there's
a drone flying around me and Trent you're playing. We're
playing golf. Frankie's on the other team. We're talking to
having a good time. I'm like, is this John Gruden.
You know, shouldn't I be in a fucking laboratory study
in a red zone offense or something. And now I'm
on the bus with you guys. It's really you know,
wish I'd have done this ten years ago. It's a

(01:02:44):
lot more fun.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Man. What can people expect with you at barstool? It
seems like you bring back the Gruden football camp.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
We're going to try to bring back Gruden's QB camp
and it won't be the same. It'll be it'll have
a little different spice to it. But this Dave Portnoy guy,
he's else. And this big Cat guy. I really like
this big Cat.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
I'm just getting to know them. And I got hired
really week eight of the season. So it's hard to
just create a show and come on, I mean, you're
gonna have to put a little time on task and
meet with some people. And you know, I'd like to
do something with you, man, like to do something with
you guys. I don't know, but I have a creative
mind myself and just starting to scratch the surface a

(01:03:27):
little bit. I've got some people out there that send
me nasty texts and messages, you know, help me get better,
and I encourage that. You know, I need to help
from people. But I I really am excited about what
could happen because I know the potential is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Yeah, the top of a rocket ship like barstool has
a way of making you more known than ever.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Yeah, how'd those conversations go? They've just hit you up like, Hey,
I'm gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
I got I got a message on one of those
Uh you know, I don't know Twitter, tiktoks or whatever. Yeah,
my son might who wrote the song Nicy, he's my
music man. He says, hey, Dad, they've portanally reached out
to you. So, to make a long story short, my
wife was in a ballroom dancing contest in Orlando and

(01:04:13):
Dave flew in to see me and we just had
dinner together and talked a little bit. Next thing I know, man,
we're I was in Chicago filming something up there, and
you know, you walk in you don't realize what's going on.
I mean, hell, I'm just a coach. I walk in
there and they're filming stuff. Hey what about John Daily?
Did you go golf with John Daly? You start talking
about it. Next thing you know, it's out there. Everybody

(01:04:34):
knows about the whole day, you know, but it's really
fascinating how it works. Yeah, you know, and the ability
that they have to reach so many people on so
many different platforms instantly, and they take a lot of
pride in it. You know, they want to be really good,
which is what I.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Like, right your Gruden Love's Football content. I mean since
day one, I like, I consume it. It's like, all right,
I'm trying to hope you you dropped stuff before we
do the locker room to hear everything you're breaking down.
Because I remember, I'm like, I'm not thinking it's probably
his son running the profile, but he's got the Gruden
Loves Football Twitter profile and I just DM and I'm like,
I need Gruden On busting with and I've already messaged

(01:05:12):
with them, but I'm just having fun with the profile,
like I need Gruden On busting with the boys like
I need air. And he responds to me like it's
him running the whole Twitter account. He's like, oh, you're
a Gruden grinder. Of course I'll come on and I'm thinking, oh, okay,
I'm just messing with coach Gruden again.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Yeah, but you know, when you break a game down,
what I wanted to do with that is try to
take fans into a little bit of the reality of
what we go through one hundred percent. Fit's the Chargers
in the Bucks. Let's start with top of line things
you might want to know. I'm here's the injury list right,
Here's where they rank statistically, Here's how they play on
the road. I mean, there's a lot of things that

(01:05:45):
you got to get your mind straight on before you
even get in to the Chargers offense. Let's talk nothing
but about Chargers offense. And I wanted the fans and
know who the offensive linemen were, who the receivers were,
who the running backs were, who the plate caller was.
Spent twenty minutes on a Chargers offense. Here's a couple
of schemes they like to run. This is the Chargers offense,
but they're going up against Tampa's defense. And then you

(01:06:07):
spend twenty minutes on Todd Bowles calls the plays. You know,
they got Winfield's hurt, they got Jamal Deane's hurt, and
you go into all the matchups and some of the
blitzes that Todd Bowles runs. Then you got to do
the Chargers defense against the bucks offense. Next thing, you know,
it's an hour and fifteen minutes on one game, and
people are like, man, fans aren't gonna want to watch
all that, but the hardcore fans, oh, bro nutty people

(01:06:29):
like me like it. Then at the end of the game,
they say, at the end of the presentation, they say, well,
we got to make a prediction. Who's gonna win. I said,
I don't know who's gonna win.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
I say, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Care who wins. Yeah, you know. But then I start
picking scores and some of my picks I'm like, you, guys,
I root for a team a little bit. I kind
of want this, so I kind of picked them to
win and it's not some of the gambling people. They
get pissed at. You screwed me, man, you gave me
all this information you pick.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
I remember coming to Taylor, I'm like, hey, have you
seen this gruenless football show? He runs it like he's
low key, like running a team meeting at the top
of a week.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
It's incredible the breakdown of everything. Have you noticed how
easy it is to overthink things because it's like, you
can break down all the film you want, but they'll
be like, all right, who's gonna win. You're like, well,
this team and they're like, well, know their defense is
this and that? Have you have you ran into that
where it's like you get into a point of overthinking
it a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
You can, you can easily overthink it. And I tell
you there are some games. Now I'm not a big
gambling guy. I'll be honest with you, there are some
games I've learned to stay away from. Got no idea
what's going to happen in this game? And there are
certain games. As I told you guys earlier, I'm going
in on this game.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
And I don't pick the spreads. I would never pick
the spreads. And I know you don't make as much
money when you pick the money line they call it,
but you pick a team to win. I'm pretty good
at picking winners. And I don't get involved in a spread.
And then my son says, we don't get anybody if
you pick the money line. Well, if you pick two
money lines.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
You know you got a little parley.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
Yeah, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Anyways, I'm I'm learning and I'm loving it. And this
is really cool, this operation. I would not have expected
anything less from you two guys and I tell you,
I don't know where you guys are going with the future.
There's a lot of rumors about where you two guys
are heading.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Hopefully, yeah, hopefully nice chatter.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
It is very nice.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
I got a couple of fun questions be for you
written up by our boys Sherman the back.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
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back the episode.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
Let's say you're running a fantasy football league, but the
teams are made up of only coaches. Which coach are
you drafting first?

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
First overall pick?

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
I take Andy Reid? Is Andy Reid. He can call
the plays and he can coach the quarterback.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
That's a good pick. Yes, everybody's gonna fault you there.
If you could only watch one NFL game on repeat
for the rest of your life, which game are you
one NFL game?

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
It would be the millennium game Raiders versus Chiefs. The
calendar just kicked over to two thousand. I was in
my second year coaching the Raiders. I was going to
get fired. We were seven and eight. We're playing at
the Chiefs. All the Chiefs need to do is win
this game, beat the Raiders, who they beaten one hundred
times in a row, and they win the division, get

(01:10:32):
a home playoff game. We're down seventeen zip after about
six minutes, and this place is rocking. Man, my boy
rich Gannon got pissed off and shredded him. We beat
him thirty eight thirty five in overtime. Check that game out.
Raiders at the Chiefs, two thousand.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
Last game of the year. Hey he knew off the
top too.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
We busted him, good man. I was dancing on the field.
Probably saved my job that day too.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Guy's gotta be a great feeling and go home, crack
up in a nice drink.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
What's your favorite memory on the grid iron? Just get one.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Twenty nineteen playoffs AFC Divisional Round against the Baltimore Ravens.
They were the one seed. We had to win five
of six just to make it into the playoffs. We
play against the New England Patriots and the Dynasty for
Tom Brady was his last game as a Patriot, and
we go in against the Ravens. It was Lamar Jackson's
first MVP in Baltimore. The Bank was as loud of

(01:11:31):
a stadium as I've ever heard of my entire life,
and we owned them, like I that is my favorite
game from a blocking standpoint ever. They had eight guys
in the box when ran Wanda, which is a open
side outside zone, and we blocked him and Derek ran
it for like forty yards. It just felt like everything
we did it was we were gonna get at least
four yards. It was awesome. We had a turnover. We

(01:11:55):
had a turnover in that game. I think Darree Casey
got a strip stripsack fumble that was picked up by
Harold Landry. That player on like the forty six yard
line going in and we call Lucy x pile on
y x pile on post and it's Kalif Raymond. He's
like four or five yards past the dB and we
score a touch on the next play and it's just
like that cool, We're gonna beat the no.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
That's the thanks see That's the one thing I've learned
about being in social media is I like to discover,
like great plays. I like to go back and show
you some of the memories of other players. I have
tape in my office of Lawrence Taylor. I got Eric
Dickerson ronning with that high form. But you can't show
you can't really show the video. You don't have rights

(01:12:37):
to the video to use all the time you see.
So you gotta, you know, you gotta creatively find ways
to make your point. But I would love to see
that game.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
It's awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:12:47):
There's yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
I can go on all day by that game. That
game was awesome. The blocking was incredible. We had five
guys doing everything right every single play. It was unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
It's hard to think about mine. I feel like it's
more you just get pissed that you lost, like when
we lost the Green Bay in the walladcard round when
we ended up winning the division. Probably the most fun
game and most fun memories when we clinched the division
at Philly right around Christmas, went out there. That was
the dad game, my only career sack on Sam Bradford.
But we beat their ass and we came back and

(01:13:17):
just the city. The town was packed in Ashbourne, Virginia,
like you were just going one two miles an hour
driving out of the facility because fans were so excited.
It was such a moment that you know, that was
like do you like that year Kirk Cousins kind of
making his run. We're kind of a bad football team,
and we'd win one, lose one, try to stream a
couple together, and we ended up winning the division that year.

(01:13:38):
In the NFC least they called it, but I would
say that game is probably the most memorable fun game
as far as moments go. Probably when I got I
got to start against the New Orleans Saints we played
the week before at New England. We got our ass kicked,
but I made a few good plays. I think I
had like eight tackles and they made the switch to
make me the mike, the mic backer, and I remember

(01:14:01):
kerk Olividadi. He pulled me right into the office before
we went into the defensive room to have a defensive
meeting to start breaking down the Saints. He pulled me
in and he whispered, you got the keys, make me
right and just dap me up. And I'm like, oh shit,
we're rolling like I'm active, Like I get to play now,
and so we end up beating the Saints' ass bro
and the paper, one of the papers is next week

(01:14:23):
was like, you know, RWA Redskins with attitude, and you know,
I was spotlighted in it. Had a really good game.
And that's probably the most memorable moment was when I
got to ultimately like take over the job in Washington,
because you know, you just you bust your ass to
getting all the situations that you're in. The year before that,
there was like, you know, that's when I got to
play against you guys the Delainey game and I had

(01:14:43):
a little run there because somebody had gotten hurt to
where I accumulated some tackles. But then you just start
to get noticed. The next year, it's like, hey, are
you gonna take this guy's job? You have a couple injuries,
you don't get the opportunity to take it. Then in
the middle of the year as it unfold, similar to
the Oakland year, where you just ended up getting an
opportunity and you just don't look back, like those are
those are more of like my memorable times in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
What was the least favorite game ever.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Question the tuck rule was bad.

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
Oh, I don't know. I forgot that. I forgot the yeah,
because he did walk through, you know, take it at
his facility and he goes in the bathroom on the
shitter and he's got the photo sitting up and it's
the tuck rule photo.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
You know, we played the AFC Championship game when I
was coaching the Raiders against Baltimore, and I don't know
if you remember, but Sarah Gousa killed our quarterback. We
don't get a personal file, we don't get anything. It
really pissed me off in that game too. But the
tuck rule, you know, instant replay is designed to only
overturn a play that's completely what obvious right to lose

(01:15:51):
a game like that. Think of Steve Wiznowski, He's nine
Pro Bowls, William Thomas, Eric Allen, these are great NFL players.
That's the last game they ever played. You know, we
got we got a chance to go to the Super Bowl.
That's what kind of team we had. And I can
see Belichick taking his headset off, their whole stab. Brady's

(01:16:11):
walking off the field. You can interview any of them.
They knew that game was over. Yeah, and the only
thing wrong with the tuck rule is they spelled it wrong.
It's really not a t it's another consonant it's supposed
to be.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
That's what.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
They don't even have the rule anymore. Yeah, that's how
bad it is.

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
God, the biggest rival coach out there, We're just like,
I want to get his ass. Whether you guys went
back and forth to or had to be Andy.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
You know, had to be Andy Reid, you know, because
we were on the same staff. We're on Mike Holmgran's
staff in Green Bay. You guys love this. So Andy
played for Mike Holmgren at BYU, so he's kind of
the teacher's pet, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
I love.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
So.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
We had this big board, me and Mary Ucci and
Andy Reid were young coaches at the time, and we
would put the plays on the board with the formations
and these are the plays that we think should be
in the game, and Homegrown would be doing his thing.
He'd come in, he'd sit there and look at the
board and in a different color would be a new play.
And Homegrown was always he was always like, whose play

(01:17:11):
is that, Andy goes, that's my play. That's sixty nine
handoff solid. You get on a board and draw it.
Mike would put it in and Andy would like look
at me and moods like, I'm smarter than you. Get Yeah,
So Andy would get a play in the game plan.
It would be called and he gains six yards through
a gain eight yards and Andy walk around the office
all week.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
I guess, bitch.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
So now we're not playing good. We just signed Reggie
White in free agency, we got we got Brett Fahr
playing again, we got Sterling Sharp, we got a hell
of the team, and we're not playing good. We're like
two and three and people are starting to get on
Holmegren's ass.

Speaker 3 (01:17:47):
A little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
What's wrong with you guys? So we go into the room.
There's all the plays and there's this play called Fox
three full back slide fifty eight. All go z search
Homegrin's like, what are those plays? I go, those are
my two plays? And I had to cut up and
I well, you don't like our place? Is that what
your problem is?

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
You don't want to run?

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
He was on my asye like yelling at me, my fuck.
So we go play the Bears on Halloween night. You
can go back and watch his game. It's pouring down rain,
the worst night in the history of football. Third and two,
early in the game, home Green calls red left, fake
fox three, naked right, full back slide. I swear to God,
Brett Farv kept it, runs it in longest touchdown run

(01:18:26):
of his career, thirty six yards on Monday night football.
I'm on the sidelines. I'm not saying anything, but I'm like, God, damn,
that's my play.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
So listen, late l.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
This is late in the game. We just need a
first down of games over and it's like third and fourteen.
And I had seen Dan Marino run an all go
with the little search route. The guy acted like he
was running a scene, but he would throw his shoulders
down and uncover. And I put that play in and
Sterling Sharp ran it better than Mark Clayton, and Mark
duper Ever ran it far off through it like a

(01:18:58):
twenty three yard game to icy game. That's my plate too.
So we get on the plane and back. Then they
give you a little bag with two beers in it.
And Holmer is sitting in the front with Ron Wolf
the GM and I'm in the back. I'll never forget this.
I got my beer and I'm drinking it. I'm thinking, God,
damn well, that was the greatest day of my life.
Holger turns around. He goes, Hey, Gruber calls me, Gruber, Hey, Gruber,

(01:19:19):
come down here. I walk down and think I sit
next to him. He goes, game ball, Hell of a job.
I turn around. I walk back to my seat. I
see Andy Reid, and I go I love competing with
Ady Read. And then when we competed against each other
and he was in Philly, I was in Oakland or

(01:19:41):
Kansas City. I mean, I just used to love seeing them.
And I love you. Ye, Christmas said God, bless you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
If I can ever do anything, if I ever come
back and coach, you'll be my left tackle.

Speaker 3 (01:19:58):
Let's fucking go.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
You have a bad You're not getting a guaranteed contract,
you're getting a ship. You're it, You're getting a minimum
salary benefit. And no one said it, but you coach
for you. I gotta have a left tackle.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
I love it. Before before you go, I do want
to play a game of crystal ball with you. Okay,
Of all the coaching positions that might be open this year,
it might be the Dallas Cowboys. We know the Jets.
We know the Bears. Where do you think you would
fit in best?

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Oh? I have no idea that puts me on the spot.

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
Yeah, you're right, that's a tough one. Well cut it.
Guess what cut Hey appreciate you coming on. Man.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
I do think the Bears with that young quarterback is interesting.
You know. I like their defense too. Man, have you
seen him play? I got some guys on it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
And TJ.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
Edwards. I mean, he's a hell of a player. They
got some linebackers that can run. When they lost Jakwan Brisker,
they lost a key member of that secondary, but they
got corners. They do have some pass rushers. They got
some receivers. Man, Yeah, they got a quarterback. I like
this kid. Man Y Minnesota might look out on Monday
night these guys. This quarterback is interesting, man, I love it.

(01:21:07):
It's got me feeling nicy.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
You were down a point two seconds left. It's fourth
and twenty from the thirty five yard line. But your
kicker broke his foot. What's the play call?

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
Shit?

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Thanks a lot. I'll go tandem right seventy six rebound pass.
I'll throw a hail Mary up there. I'll isolate my
best receiver. If they play one on one over there,
I'll throw it to him. If not, I'll take I'll
pop it up into the end zone touchdown.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Love it because you ever see.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Guys throw hail mary's in the ball lands off the
field of play. I want to make this point before
I leave. Have you ever seen this shit where the
I'm talking to hail Mary? Okay, and the ball lands
off of the field of play? Have you ever seen that? Yes,
you asked, yes, Why do you think that is?

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
They're scared?

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
Why do you think it is? It's a QB rating man,
They don't want to throw interceptions.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
Oh, you think it's an ego thing.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
I know it is. It has to be. These are
the greatest passers in the world. You mean to tell
me on a hail Mary, you can't put the ball
on the field to play. Seriously, you can throw the
ball in that tight window that big, You can sizzle
it in there off platform into a window that big,
But on the last play of the game, you can't
keep the ball on the playing field. Let me tell you.

(01:22:28):
When you see that, you know you're dealing with somebody
that's interested in his QB rating. I'll keep an eye
on that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):
I will, I will what last saying.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
I'll tell you I learned this from Reggie White. Do
you know tackles for loss and sack is a big
way these guys get paid, right, Yeah, So back in
the day, Reggie White told me this a long time ago.
They're playing for the Philadelphia Eagles and the quarterback takes
a knee. Reggie White, Clyde Simmons. He told me those
guys would go flying in there to touch the quarterback

(01:23:00):
to get credit for a TfL. And now that rule,
I guess has changed too. But I'm interested in You know,
two seconds left in the half, you're in a prevent
defense and somebody runs a draw play for sixteen yards.
You know those That's why statistics you gotta be really
careful when you look at them.

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:23:20):
I love that knowledge. Yeah, I love knowledge. I love
the take. Coach. We appreciate you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
Thank you for coming on. The show is unbelievable. Please
subscribe eight five stars.

Speaker 3 (01:23:29):
That was awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:23:31):
You guys aw you guys go

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