December 5, 2024 • 31 mins
Call it the best podcast crossover ever because the ladies are welcoming Sophia Bush to the show and they’re spilling the tea on why they’re so envious of her.
Camilla reveals how she tried to make it on ‘One Tree Hill’ and they have an open discussion about females dominating the entertainment industry.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camil Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello Call It crew.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
And welcome to another episode of Call It What It Is,
But this this time it's a crossover. We're in the
second start. We started with work in Progress with Sophia Bush.
I'm staring at her gorgeous face right now. Hi, hialating,
And and the second half of this podcast is with us.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
She got to You're gonna need to go over to
hers to get the first half because a lot got said,
a lot got said to get said here too, So
we have to start by saying Sophia.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
When we started the podcast, we were looking for names
you under, you know, to find the name is a
big deal, right, And we just kept going back to
how annoying it was so annoyed that you guys had
taken drama Queens because it was just so good.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
It is so good.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Do you member coming up with it?
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Did the three of you come up with it together?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah? And it's it just sort of hit us. We
were talking about all these things and and it also
felt fun, you know, when you do a version of
a primetime soap, and especially in the early aughts when
we were all getting made fun of for it. We
were like, we're going to own this.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, do you feel like you got made fun of
because I remember wanting to be on your show so
badly as one of the actresses coming in.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yes, I thought it was.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
One Tree Hill. Yeah yeah, yeah, of course because you
auditioned for right.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, if you listen to how well that went in the.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I am yeah, we got made fun of a ton
it was. It was very like ooh teen dramas wah
waht like we got we got ripped apart on the
soup every week. For whatever reason. Joel McHale loved to
talk about how ridiculous honestly, like sometimes he was right.
I mean, we had a dog that ate a heart
on our show, Like you guys do a medical show,
(02:14):
and I don't think you've ever had an animal eat
an organ.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
It doesn't sound not crazy, But these shows.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Was so sexy. I remember, like the Billboards, I remember
being very sexy.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
You guys on the cover of magazine.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I feel like it was a smoke show. Yeah, her
percent and you so okay. So one of the people,
one of the queens is speaking of smoke shows, no
one who I made out with a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Anatomy Hillary Burton.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
If you don't already know, this is one of the
loveliest humans on the planet. She came over to Grays
and she knew she was she was playing. She was
playing someone who's gonna like upset the apple cart, and
most I think I in my mind, I was imagining
most people would come in a little sort of like
on tender hooks and be like, Ooh, I'm going to
(03:05):
come in and play this part. She was not. She
was like bold and smart and sassy, and she just
took over and character chemistry.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
But you know what, Sophia's kind of Does she give
you any tips? Because you can't.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
You've just if you.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Guys haven't caught up on grades not and you really
have to because Sophia came in to mix some up
I love. Does she give you any tips or did
she give you a heads up? We?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I mean god, I remember us talking about it then
because we were so excited for her to be on
the show, because it was a show we'd loved. While
we were making hours and I texted her and was like, girl,
what what kind of like fun voodoo. Do we have
going that? Like, now I get to go and kill
a pretty woman on grays Also, Yeah, and it feels right.
(03:57):
It's like it's very adjacent and energy for us, and
that feels great.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
What is something that you felt was unexpected when you
started the show?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Your show?
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Oh my gosh, god on graze, Like, what is something
that surprised you? So? You know what.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
One of the things I really appreciate as a fan,
not only of the show, but of Shonda as a
writer and a world maker, is that I've interacted with
her a bit in sort of you know, groups of
women like advocating for us to you know, be whole people.
Shocker that we want that, And I know how brilliant
(04:36):
she is and how lovely she is. What was very
cool to me was to hear about the world y'all
have built over these years and how you know, professional
and well oiled and respectful and smart and bold it is.
And I walked onto set and was like, damn, twenty
one seasons in. Everyone is on time, everyone is exc
(05:00):
everybody cares about everybody. People are trading pictures of kids
and making sure people have what they need, and everyone
shows up to the table read and gives it. They're
absolute all. I was like, Oh, sets that are like
run by women are just different in the best way.
And I'm having the most fun. So thank you for
(05:21):
having me.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Oh stay, they stay.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, it's lovely. I love it.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And of course Joy was on the show too, I
know that's right. So all three of you three yes, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
So how did you guys decide to come up with
the pod together? The drama queens one?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So you know, we talked about this on my show
a bit with the two of you. But sets are complicated.
They're amazing, and they're complicated. And for all the sort
of wonderful stuff we got to have in our years together,
our friendships I think got even more expansive and even
more special in the years because there wasn't the kind
(06:02):
of like put your life on the back burner to
keep the ship of the set always moving at however
many knots in the right direction, Like we actually got
to be more whole people, which meant our friendships were
more you know, whole friendships. And it was early days
of COVID hitting and we were all stuck at home
(06:25):
and we were on a FaceTime and the girls Hillary
and Joy and I were out on the West Coast
and Hillary was back in New York and we were
joking like is it too early to open a bottle
of wine? And she was like, well, not in New
York and we were like, well, neither is it in California.
And we all like opened a bottle of wine together,
and then we were just kind of chatting and then
(06:47):
suddenly like an hour had gone by and we started
making dinner and we were just like hanging out on
a FaceTime but it wasn't, you know, a short catchup
or like a phone call in the car. We were
on video because we had nowhere to go, and it
kind of hit me and I was like, wait a second.
I do this podcast I do, which I love, and
(07:08):
I get to ask fascinating people all the questions that
I want to ask them. But this is kind of
fun what we're doing. And none of us are going
to leave the house. Everyone keeps saying two weeks. We
were like, that's not happening, Like we're not going to
leave the house for.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
A long time.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Two weeks, the infamous two weeks. And so I had
a call with one of my agents and I was like,
is this a crazy idea and she was like, I
think it's actually a really, really great idea. And then
I called Hillary back and said, you know, because she'd
left the show earlier, and I said, if you hate
(07:42):
this idea, I'll never say I had it. But if
you don't hate this idea, like, should we call Joy back?
And she was like, let's call Joy. And that was it.
We just decided to build a world and like it's
been so healing and confronting and special, and I.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Was so, So that's the piece I'm interested in because
you know, we're this is a very nascent phase for
us because we're only six months in.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Okay, I mean, it's just like the baby's little babies.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
And I'm curious about your experience with you know, actors
are sort of we're we're we're meant to say the
words of other people and do the things on the set,
and of course we have opinions and of course we
have ideas, and it's a collaborative process, you know, absolutely.
Then you go do this other thing where it's from
(08:33):
the beginning to the end, you and the origins of
all things are your ideas. Then they're your thoughts, then
they're your words, then you're editing them, and then what
you put out into the world really is yours. But again,
as actors were sort of trained to when we go
out to have our own words, speak in a certain
way and sort of like not not protect, but be
(08:56):
be judicious about how we speak about things or or
represent to project in a way that the project would
like to be represented. And then all of a sudden,
you find yourself in a podcasting space and you're you're
the project that you're representing now, and you my experience
is that you've learned. I'm learning how to speak about
myself in different ways, figure out where my boundaries are
(09:19):
with regards to like, what it is that I talk about,
what is that I don't talk about? What was that
like for you all in the beginning?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, I mean it's all of that.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And do you see a big difference between when you
started and now, like when you first picked up the
microphone where you like and.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, I think when we first started, we all got
together to be together in person and watch a couple
of episodes and record and we got to the end
of our first block of watching together and we all
just burst into tears, and none of us were expecting
to have that reaction, but we were sort of being
(09:56):
confronted with our youngest and most in sinceselves who had
you know, bonded and loved each other and not yet
been through the complexity, and not yet been through the
terrible behind the scenes stuff, and not yet you know,
learned we could each open up about our boss and
weird dynamics at work that women go through, and it
(10:19):
was it was like being on the precipice of something
that looked perfect, but you knew how hard it was
going to be, and you never get to have that experience,
and it was really unexpected and it was really special.
And through the years it has been all the things,
it has been really confronting. It has been really hard.
(10:42):
It requires that you go through things together, and you know,
as you know, winding up on a show together is
kind of like experiencing not one arranged marriage, but like
thirty or one hundred. Like suddenly you're just with all
these people all the time, and they're strangers, but you're
supposed to know how to perfectly intimately communicate and make
space for each other and whatever. It's hard, and it's amazing,
(11:05):
and it's been a revisiting of those things, but it's
also been a revisiting of those things as more adult
versions of ourselves, as wiser versions of ourselves. I think,
you know, we've been able to make more space for
each other. We've been able to make more space for ourselves.
Sometimes we do episodes and it's like we're transported to
a place. And there are some weeks where I know,
(11:28):
I'll come in so tired and think I am so
sick of talking, I have nothing left to say, the
world is insane. I don't know what I'm going to
do this week, And then something amazing happens, and yeah,
it has this life of its own.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, did you know that in the beginning, in that
moment where you know, you went back to that place
together and then you all ended in tears, did you
(12:09):
did you get the inkling that you were going to
go forth and be doing some hard things like doing
doing the confronting. Did you know then, like, oh my god,
I think that we're going to confront this tough boss,
this situation that was not what people thought it was like,
did you know that?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I don't know. I think what we knew is that
it felt important. What we knew is that when the
show first ended and we all ran as far away
from it as we could and we never wanted to
speak about it, it kept coming back and there was
no getting away from it, and we had to figure
out why sort of spiritually energetically, as a as a
(12:49):
version of a family, we were in this. And then
it really has been so special, and there were certain
things that just evolved, you know, as as we started
to talk about what was going on behind the scenes,
we would check in with each other and be like, no,
this really matters because nobody gave us advice, so what
if we could give women advice? And then there was
(13:10):
a day we realized we'd been sort of going through
the sequence of events at one point with our boss,
and one of us said his name, and it was like,
absolutely not. We will never speak his name. So we
talk about our boss, but we do not speak his
name because I will not honor him in that way,
and neither will anyone else who comes on our show.
We're like, you are a man who is a creep
(13:31):
like so many other men, and bye. And that was
like a thing we didn't know we were going to
do that. We had no idea that no one would
use his name, and we just don't. And it's been
this kind of cool thing where you're like, oh, we can,
we can make decisions for ourselves big and small. You know,
there are there are things there are you know, family
(13:54):
bust ups we'll never talk about. Every once in a while,
I'm like, not everything needs to be on a thing.
I do even just mean that for us, I mean
that for other friends who have their own shows. I'm like,
some things just keep. But I think the overarching lessons
I think not being afraid to be vulnerable and say
these are the most cherished relationships, and they're also really
(14:16):
complicated at times, like we're human, this isn't actually a
TV show. There's a whole bigger life with three dimensional people,
you know, not two dimensional characters on a screen. And
so I think it's been really special and it's been
cool in our friendships outside of it, and in the
(14:37):
ways our families are growing, and in the places we
all live and the things we all do together. Even
the conversations we have now with the fans who grew
up with the show are rewatching the show. I have
this like deeper experience with everyone who ever loved one
Tree Hill than I ever knew I could before we
started this, and I already knew it was really special,
(14:58):
and now it's like we're all in on something together
and I can't explain it. It's like it has reconnected
me to why I love doing my job. It's reconnected
me to strangers in ways that for a while, like
I was really turned off and scared out in the
world because of some things that were happening, and now
I'm like, I think most people are pretty awesome want
(15:21):
to hang out.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Like do you feel like in re talking about it
you're able to or what is your relationship with being like,
oh man, I would have I could do that differently
or yes, yeah, do.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You mean as a person or an actor or both?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I guess both.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I just I think that our history is obviously such
an incredible place to learn from. At the same time
that again, it can sort of, you know, weigh you down,
and so it's like, what's the part that I you know,
I'm grateful for that moment that was really hard because
I'm here now and I know I can handle that.
I talk about all the time, But I just I
(16:01):
love I love coach Cara, which is like is it
gonna get easier. It's not gonna get easier. You're just
gonna get better at doing the hard exactly. I think that,
Like that's how I I It makes a lot of
sense to me. So the doing the hard, it's like
the hard thing can happen, and you're you're the tiny baby,
right you just you don't even I mean I go
into fight, fight, fight or freeze, I freeze. I'm like, hmm,
(16:22):
what's happening? Yeah, and then I look, when I was younger,
I would just look for the grown ups in the room.
I remember saying that time and time again when people
would misbehave and I would be like, where are.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
The grown ups?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
We're taught.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
But what's interesting is she's talking about the set being
a family, a family dynamic.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
There are moments where, in all the years we've worked
in all the different shows and stuff, if someone they're
the adults are not in the room, you're looking to
adults that don't exist.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Oh wait, I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
When you guys decided that you were going to do
the show and you were just gonna speak your truth?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Was there?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Because we have this a lot of industry, did anyone
advise you guys to sort of play it nice. Was
there a push ever to be like, you guys, don't
talk about the drama behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I love that. I think everybody knows us well enough
and is like, if you tell those girls not to
do something, they're going to be like watch this. Yeah,
everybody knew probably not to do that. I will say
what was really interesting to me, and this was prior
to us obviously starting the show, but we all experienced
(17:31):
what we experienced on our show, and we were actually
the first cast to as a group author a statement
about use of power, because it was a way for
us to stand as a unified front and to not
have any one person's story be like exposed and re
traumatizing for them, but sort of run the gamut. And
(17:56):
when we were putting that together, which was then echo
and increased in number by the cast on our Old
Boss's show, at the time, I had had a job
in between, that was for me, as an individual, by far,
the worst thing I'd ever experienced. And I was told
at the time, you're going to have to pick what
(18:18):
story you're going to tell.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Because then you look difficult potentially like, oh, you've had
an issue with one show, and now you have an
issue with another.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Exactly. It was like men that are old enough to
be your father who break the law or the problem.
But you've had two men old enough to be your
father do this to you, and you run the risk
of looking like you're asking for it. And I was like,
I was like, anybody who knows me knows I'm like
(18:50):
a fire breathing dragon. So that's not it. But that
was a really interesting experience and it still is. And
I was very clear. I was like, I'm not just
not going to say anything about it, but I'll say
I'll say as little as I can and be clear
about this circumstance because what I won't do is not
(19:13):
stand with my family. Yeah, right, Like, I'm not going
to bow out of this conversation, even though my experience
in Wilmington was actually one of the earliest and the
fastest and then never happened to me again. It was like, no,
I'm standing with my family, of course, And that's an
(19:35):
interesting thing. And I think that's a I think that's
kind of a symptom of the disease of power that
in twenty seventeen we were only just taking the lid
off in our industry, and nobody really knew what the
ramifications were going to be, so it was like, well,
you're going to get out, You're essentially going to go
stand on the highway and hope not to get run over.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I hate that, like the feedback that you've got, and
it's something that I think that we've all sort of
wrestled with that if you've had a bad experience, and
most likely had more than one, you're allowed to talk
at some point about just one. Pick your ball right,
Otherwise it's not their reputation. You're You can't say I've
worked with a bunch of people that have it's been tough.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I've had terrible experiences.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
You're only then that makes you look bad, like, well
the problem to you, and I hate that we are
just given the one allowance to maybe talk about it.
I'm curious also if if anyone's apologized to you your boss,
has there ever been a moment or no, okay, no apologies.
Not that you guys need it, but I'm just curious.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Or would you like it? Would you would it? Would
it do something if you heard from that person.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
The gamma of experience I've had is total silence and
denial to this is how I'm going to get away
with it. And it's like, wow, y'all are wild. But
what I find is helpful because every woman I know
has a story, whether you're in our industry or not.
By the way, like.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Talking about everybody.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, like every friend of mine who went to nursing
school has a story, Every friend of mine in academia
has a story, Like every friend of mine in real estate,
like you know. So, what I think has been really
helpful for me, and I think for all of us
is like when you've been through something horrible, especially at work.
(21:45):
For me, it's been helpful to be like mathematical because
math helps me process emotion. So I'm like, yeah, I
had two people who were absolutely grotesque to me. And
I've been a working actor for twenty years and every
set I've been on has been populated by like a
minimum of two hundred people. So I actually think my
ratio is pretty good. It's just really unfortunate when the
(22:06):
two people are the ones most in control of your life,
Like that's not great, And how are we going to
shift those things? And how are the behaviors around those
things going to change? And you know, how are the
reporting procedures going to be made safer for women and
all these things because we did it all right and
(22:27):
it didn't matter.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
The reporting is maybe even the most complex because yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, I mean again, when I was asking, like what
you would do differently, I mean, when I think about it,
there's so many things right where I'm like, oh my gosh,
I would have done that. But I mean, I remember
being in a situation where what someone was doing was
so bad that someone else called HR.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yep, I had that too.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I remember, I remember getting I remember getting someone came
on set and said, Jessica, someone needs to talk to you,
being like like what I do? What I do, And
then when the HR needs to talk to you, and
I got taken to a room, and I remember my
heart like beating out of my chest and I remember
all the sweat, the sweat and the heart beat, and
(23:16):
I was at work, by the way, It's not like
it was like, you know, I don't respectfully like I'll
grab you on a day off, right, like I'm going
to do another scene after this, And the HR person
asked all the like perfunctory HR questions about this person.
And I remember playing such a chess game in my
head because it was I think my thinking then, which
(23:36):
was not brave and not courageous and not supported or
held by my own self. Firstly, what can I say
that will like be the wink to you're not wrong? Yeah,
and please don't do anything or still.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
My job.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I still want to be liked and I still want
to be thought of as someone that's easy to work with.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Absolutely because I am, because I fucking out.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Women, we're not.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
We're made to feel like if we say this, I
still we're not. And then guess what, it's us who
get written It's not that you get fired, it's that
you get written off.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And you can't argue that's the reason why that you
know deep down that's why you're gone.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
I know, yes, yes, and I crafted that answer in
my head. I think enough to be to then you know,
all right, thank you very much, and I left, and
I remember going into my trailer and weeping, yeah, and
then calling someone who I trusted. This was pre to
(24:52):
This was pre people saying and still have your job.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, pre July twenty seventeen was the out West.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I really was yeah yeah,
but I called and I said, this just happened, and
this was my answer, and what do you think? And
they absolutely said that was this They condoned my avoidance.
It was you know, you said what you needed to
say to keep your job and keep going on and
affirmed yes.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
You would be.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And by the way, it wasn't dishonest what this person said.
They weren't saying. They weren't they were they were furthering
the shit like they were furthering what we all thought
was what we were supposed to do. But they and
they thought they were being protective. But they at the
messaging was absolutely you should say nothing and handle it
(25:39):
yourself and do what you need to do.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Sophia, we have to We only have a few minutes left,
but we have a I have a question for you.
So we got asked in an interview what we would
love to ask Taylor Swift, and I thought about, what
is some sort of misconception about her that she would
like to clear up? So I want to offer you
the same question.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I don't know because I try not to pay attention
to what I think are misconceptions. What I will say is,
I think what's really unfortunate is when the most base
parts of our industry make a lot of money really
being reductive about women. And then no matter who you become,
(26:21):
or the complexity that you are or the service you
live in, anytime they can reduce you to like a
cartoon version of yourself or a trope or stereotype. They'll
do that because they make money on it, not even
because it's true. And that's something I find really hard
to watch. And I think there's a version of that.
(26:44):
I talk to some of my girlfriends about this recently.
I think there's especially a version of that with anyone
who's come from a teen drama, like they want to
keep you in high school drama forever. And I thought
about that a lot because I spent a long weekend
with a girlfriend of mine from my first show, and
we're family. We don't always agree, but like we're family,
(27:07):
and we really sat and just like unpacked. I mean
we spent six and a half hours, like on the couch,
drinking coffees on Sunday, just like digging into some stuff.
And she was like, God, we've been family for twenty
years and even I if we're just texting, can forget
the way you talk to me? And the space you
make for me, rather than the way I hear the
(27:30):
things I read because I read them as my insecure,
twenty one year old self, and I forget the women
we are when we're not in the room together. And
I was like, this can be with your closest people,
like of course, like we were joking earlier, of course,
the internet is a cesspool. Like what we're expecting people
(27:53):
to be like their best themselves from therapy with strangers online.
I wish we were, but we're not. And it's like,
I just wish, particularly for us, we were given a
little more space. We were given space to be brilliant
and imperfect and yeah, we didn't feel like we always
had to get it right just to exist at zero,
(28:14):
like when you were asking me about things. When I
look back at the show, I think about scenes I
wish i'd played differently, been like, oh, I love that
we disrupted this, and I love that we screwed up
the blocking and I remember, and we did this really
cool thing and it's great, And then I'll watch another
scene and be like, oh my god, I wish I'd
played it exactly against how it was written, so that
it communicated like what was coming next, But I didn't
(28:36):
have the wherewithal at twenty two to do that. And now,
you know, there's episodes where I watch it and I'm like,
who told me I could wear my hair like that? Oh?
You know, look at the girls and be like friends
and hair. There's these big lessons about artistry, and there's
big lessons about how how much courage you have, Like
(29:01):
you said, to say the hard thing even though you're
terrified it might disrupt the ship. You know, what does
it mean to ask for help even when you feel
like you've been somewhere long enough that you're not supposed
to need it. Like, I feel like I've learned so
much about myself in terms of my intellect, in terms
(29:22):
of my humor, in terms of being a really good human,
in terms of being absolutely ridiculous. Like I wish we
got to be more of our full selves out in
the world. Yeah, yeah, but that's probably like a hard
I feel.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Like the podcast allows us a little bit to be
more us because we're not on a talk show promote
you know. Yeah, I feel like this allows us to
be a little bit more loose and messy and vulnerable.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
But I agree with you, it's it's it's difficult.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I hear you.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, I feel I feel completely myself in these moments,
you know, even just like you know it's over zoom,
but we're looking at your beautiful face and just the
heart that you bring to you know, the stories that
you tell. And I mean again I have I mean
I've seen you on screen. I have eyeballs and ears
into telephone, right so I telephone is what I just said.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
You know, it rings.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Sometimes and I'm like a little banana phone.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I'm a smartphone.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
The landline.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I see headlines and yeah, no, it's just it is.
That thing is a replacement for being in these kinds
of conversations. So thank you for bringing soia and and.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
For calling it what it is over and over and over.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yes, well to many more, and hopefully I see maybe
I'll see you in the halls of.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Of Graco Memorial.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yes, please come play.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Okay, stay away from the what is it supply closets
or go in I mean I don't know, in guys in.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
The supply closet or was it a call room? I'd
like to know.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Please answer the question all right now we have to Okay,
thank you, Thank you, and let's call it the end
of the episode.
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camil Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello Call It crew.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
And welcome to another episode of Call It What It Is,
But this this time it's a crossover. We're in the
second start. We started with work in Progress with Sophia Bush.
I'm staring at her gorgeous face right now. Hi, hialating,
And and the second half of this podcast is with us.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
She got to You're gonna need to go over to
hers to get the first half because a lot got said,
a lot got said to get said here too, So
we have to start by saying Sophia.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
When we started the podcast, we were looking for names
you under, you know, to find the name is a
big deal, right, And we just kept going back to
how annoying it was so annoyed that you guys had
taken drama Queens because it was just so good.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
It is so good.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Do you member coming up with it?
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Did the three of you come up with it together?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah? And it's it just sort of hit us. We
were talking about all these things and and it also
felt fun, you know, when you do a version of
a primetime soap, and especially in the early aughts when
we were all getting made fun of for it. We
were like, we're going to own this.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, do you feel like you got made fun of
because I remember wanting to be on your show so
badly as one of the actresses coming in.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yes, I thought it was.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
One Tree Hill. Yeah yeah, yeah, of course because you
auditioned for right.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, if you listen to how well that went in the.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I am yeah, we got made fun of a ton
it was. It was very like ooh teen dramas wah
waht like we got we got ripped apart on the
soup every week. For whatever reason. Joel McHale loved to
talk about how ridiculous honestly, like sometimes he was right.
I mean, we had a dog that ate a heart
on our show, Like you guys do a medical show,
(02:14):
and I don't think you've ever had an animal eat
an organ.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
It doesn't sound not crazy, But these shows.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Was so sexy. I remember, like the Billboards, I remember
being very sexy.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
You guys on the cover of magazine.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I feel like it was a smoke show. Yeah, her
percent and you so okay. So one of the people,
one of the queens is speaking of smoke shows, no
one who I made out with a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Anatomy Hillary Burton.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
If you don't already know, this is one of the
loveliest humans on the planet. She came over to Grays
and she knew she was she was playing. She was
playing someone who's gonna like upset the apple cart, and
most I think I in my mind, I was imagining
most people would come in a little sort of like
on tender hooks and be like, Ooh, I'm going to
(03:05):
come in and play this part. She was not. She
was like bold and smart and sassy, and she just
took over and character chemistry.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
But you know what, Sophia's kind of Does she give
you any tips? Because you can't.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
You've just if you.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Guys haven't caught up on grades not and you really
have to because Sophia came in to mix some up
I love. Does she give you any tips or did
she give you a heads up? We?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I mean god, I remember us talking about it then
because we were so excited for her to be on
the show, because it was a show we'd loved. While
we were making hours and I texted her and was like, girl,
what what kind of like fun voodoo. Do we have
going that? Like, now I get to go and kill
a pretty woman on grays Also, Yeah, and it feels right.
(03:57):
It's like it's very adjacent and energy for us, and
that feels great.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
What is something that you felt was unexpected when you
started the show?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Your show?
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Oh my gosh, god on graze, Like, what is something
that surprised you? So? You know what.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
One of the things I really appreciate as a fan,
not only of the show, but of Shonda as a
writer and a world maker, is that I've interacted with
her a bit in sort of you know, groups of
women like advocating for us to you know, be whole people.
Shocker that we want that, And I know how brilliant
(04:36):
she is and how lovely she is. What was very
cool to me was to hear about the world y'all
have built over these years and how you know, professional
and well oiled and respectful and smart and bold it is.
And I walked onto set and was like, damn, twenty
one seasons in. Everyone is on time, everyone is exc
(05:00):
everybody cares about everybody. People are trading pictures of kids
and making sure people have what they need, and everyone
shows up to the table read and gives it. They're
absolute all. I was like, Oh, sets that are like
run by women are just different in the best way.
And I'm having the most fun. So thank you for
(05:21):
having me.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Oh stay, they stay.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, it's lovely. I love it.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And of course Joy was on the show too, I
know that's right. So all three of you three yes, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
So how did you guys decide to come up with
the pod together? The drama queens one?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So you know, we talked about this on my show
a bit with the two of you. But sets are complicated.
They're amazing, and they're complicated. And for all the sort
of wonderful stuff we got to have in our years together,
our friendships I think got even more expansive and even
more special in the years because there wasn't the kind
(06:02):
of like put your life on the back burner to
keep the ship of the set always moving at however
many knots in the right direction, Like we actually got
to be more whole people, which meant our friendships were
more you know, whole friendships. And it was early days
of COVID hitting and we were all stuck at home
(06:25):
and we were on a FaceTime and the girls Hillary
and Joy and I were out on the West Coast
and Hillary was back in New York and we were
joking like is it too early to open a bottle
of wine? And she was like, well, not in New
York and we were like, well, neither is it in California.
And we all like opened a bottle of wine together,
and then we were just kind of chatting and then
(06:47):
suddenly like an hour had gone by and we started
making dinner and we were just like hanging out on
a FaceTime but it wasn't, you know, a short catchup
or like a phone call in the car. We were
on video because we had nowhere to go, and it
kind of hit me and I was like, wait a second.
I do this podcast I do, which I love, and
(07:08):
I get to ask fascinating people all the questions that
I want to ask them. But this is kind of
fun what we're doing. And none of us are going
to leave the house. Everyone keeps saying two weeks. We
were like, that's not happening, Like we're not going to
leave the house for.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
A long time.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Two weeks, the infamous two weeks. And so I had
a call with one of my agents and I was like,
is this a crazy idea and she was like, I
think it's actually a really, really great idea. And then
I called Hillary back and said, you know, because she'd
left the show earlier, and I said, if you hate
(07:42):
this idea, I'll never say I had it. But if
you don't hate this idea, like, should we call Joy back?
And she was like, let's call Joy. And that was it.
We just decided to build a world and like it's
been so healing and confronting and special, and I.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Was so, So that's the piece I'm interested in because
you know, we're this is a very nascent phase for
us because we're only six months in.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Okay, I mean, it's just like the baby's little babies.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
And I'm curious about your experience with you know, actors
are sort of we're we're we're meant to say the
words of other people and do the things on the set,
and of course we have opinions and of course we
have ideas, and it's a collaborative process, you know, absolutely.
Then you go do this other thing where it's from
(08:33):
the beginning to the end, you and the origins of
all things are your ideas. Then they're your thoughts, then
they're your words, then you're editing them, and then what
you put out into the world really is yours. But again,
as actors were sort of trained to when we go
out to have our own words, speak in a certain
way and sort of like not not protect, but be
(08:56):
be judicious about how we speak about things or or
represent to project in a way that the project would
like to be represented. And then all of a sudden,
you find yourself in a podcasting space and you're you're
the project that you're representing now, and you my experience
is that you've learned. I'm learning how to speak about
myself in different ways, figure out where my boundaries are
(09:19):
with regards to like, what it is that I talk about,
what is that I don't talk about? What was that
like for you all in the beginning?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, I mean it's all of that.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And do you see a big difference between when you
started and now, like when you first picked up the
microphone where you like and.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, I think when we first started, we all got
together to be together in person and watch a couple
of episodes and record and we got to the end
of our first block of watching together and we all
just burst into tears, and none of us were expecting
to have that reaction, but we were sort of being
(09:56):
confronted with our youngest and most in sinceselves who had
you know, bonded and loved each other and not yet
been through the complexity, and not yet been through the
terrible behind the scenes stuff, and not yet you know,
learned we could each open up about our boss and
weird dynamics at work that women go through, and it
(10:19):
was it was like being on the precipice of something
that looked perfect, but you knew how hard it was
going to be, and you never get to have that experience,
and it was really unexpected and it was really special.
And through the years it has been all the things,
it has been really confronting. It has been really hard.
(10:42):
It requires that you go through things together, and you know,
as you know, winding up on a show together is
kind of like experiencing not one arranged marriage, but like
thirty or one hundred. Like suddenly you're just with all
these people all the time, and they're strangers, but you're
supposed to know how to perfectly intimately communicate and make
space for each other and whatever. It's hard, and it's amazing,
(11:05):
and it's been a revisiting of those things, but it's
also been a revisiting of those things as more adult
versions of ourselves, as wiser versions of ourselves. I think,
you know, we've been able to make more space for
each other. We've been able to make more space for ourselves.
Sometimes we do episodes and it's like we're transported to
a place. And there are some weeks where I know,
(11:28):
I'll come in so tired and think I am so
sick of talking, I have nothing left to say, the
world is insane. I don't know what I'm going to
do this week, And then something amazing happens, and yeah,
it has this life of its own.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, did you know that in the beginning, in that
moment where you know, you went back to that place
together and then you all ended in tears, did you
(12:09):
did you get the inkling that you were going to
go forth and be doing some hard things like doing
doing the confronting. Did you know then, like, oh my god,
I think that we're going to confront this tough boss,
this situation that was not what people thought it was like,
did you know that?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I don't know. I think what we knew is that
it felt important. What we knew is that when the
show first ended and we all ran as far away
from it as we could and we never wanted to
speak about it, it kept coming back and there was
no getting away from it, and we had to figure
out why sort of spiritually energetically, as a as a
(12:49):
version of a family, we were in this. And then
it really has been so special, and there were certain
things that just evolved, you know, as as we started
to talk about what was going on behind the scenes,
we would check in with each other and be like, no,
this really matters because nobody gave us advice, so what
if we could give women advice? And then there was
(13:10):
a day we realized we'd been sort of going through
the sequence of events at one point with our boss,
and one of us said his name, and it was like,
absolutely not. We will never speak his name. So we
talk about our boss, but we do not speak his
name because I will not honor him in that way,
and neither will anyone else who comes on our show.
We're like, you are a man who is a creep
(13:31):
like so many other men, and bye. And that was
like a thing we didn't know we were going to
do that. We had no idea that no one would
use his name, and we just don't. And it's been
this kind of cool thing where you're like, oh, we can,
we can make decisions for ourselves big and small. You know,
there are there are things there are you know, family
(13:54):
bust ups we'll never talk about. Every once in a while,
I'm like, not everything needs to be on a thing.
I do even just mean that for us, I mean
that for other friends who have their own shows. I'm like,
some things just keep. But I think the overarching lessons
I think not being afraid to be vulnerable and say
these are the most cherished relationships, and they're also really
(14:16):
complicated at times, like we're human, this isn't actually a
TV show. There's a whole bigger life with three dimensional people,
you know, not two dimensional characters on a screen. And
so I think it's been really special and it's been
cool in our friendships outside of it, and in the
(14:37):
ways our families are growing, and in the places we
all live and the things we all do together. Even
the conversations we have now with the fans who grew
up with the show are rewatching the show. I have
this like deeper experience with everyone who ever loved one
Tree Hill than I ever knew I could before we
started this, and I already knew it was really special,
(14:58):
and now it's like we're all in on something together
and I can't explain it. It's like it has reconnected
me to why I love doing my job. It's reconnected
me to strangers in ways that for a while, like
I was really turned off and scared out in the
world because of some things that were happening, and now
I'm like, I think most people are pretty awesome want
(15:21):
to hang out.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Like do you feel like in re talking about it
you're able to or what is your relationship with being like,
oh man, I would have I could do that differently
or yes, yeah, do.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You mean as a person or an actor or both?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I guess both.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I just I think that our history is obviously such
an incredible place to learn from. At the same time
that again, it can sort of, you know, weigh you down,
and so it's like, what's the part that I you know,
I'm grateful for that moment that was really hard because
I'm here now and I know I can handle that.
I talk about all the time, But I just I
(16:01):
love I love coach Cara, which is like is it
gonna get easier. It's not gonna get easier. You're just
gonna get better at doing the hard exactly. I think that,
Like that's how I I It makes a lot of
sense to me. So the doing the hard, it's like
the hard thing can happen, and you're you're the tiny baby,
right you just you don't even I mean I go
into fight, fight, fight or freeze, I freeze. I'm like, hmm,
(16:22):
what's happening? Yeah, and then I look, when I was younger,
I would just look for the grown ups in the room.
I remember saying that time and time again when people
would misbehave and I would be like, where are.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
The grown ups?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
We're taught.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
But what's interesting is she's talking about the set being
a family, a family dynamic.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
There are moments where, in all the years we've worked
in all the different shows and stuff, if someone they're
the adults are not in the room, you're looking to
adults that don't exist.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Oh wait, I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
When you guys decided that you were going to do
the show and you were just gonna speak your truth?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Was there?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Because we have this a lot of industry, did anyone
advise you guys to sort of play it nice. Was
there a push ever to be like, you guys, don't
talk about the drama behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I love that. I think everybody knows us well enough
and is like, if you tell those girls not to
do something, they're going to be like watch this. Yeah,
everybody knew probably not to do that. I will say
what was really interesting to me, and this was prior
to us obviously starting the show, but we all experienced
(17:31):
what we experienced on our show, and we were actually
the first cast to as a group author a statement
about use of power, because it was a way for
us to stand as a unified front and to not
have any one person's story be like exposed and re
traumatizing for them, but sort of run the gamut. And
(17:56):
when we were putting that together, which was then echo
and increased in number by the cast on our Old
Boss's show, at the time, I had had a job
in between, that was for me, as an individual, by far,
the worst thing I'd ever experienced. And I was told
at the time, you're going to have to pick what
(18:18):
story you're going to tell.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Because then you look difficult potentially like, oh, you've had
an issue with one show, and now you have an
issue with another.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Exactly. It was like men that are old enough to
be your father who break the law or the problem.
But you've had two men old enough to be your
father do this to you, and you run the risk
of looking like you're asking for it. And I was like,
I was like, anybody who knows me knows I'm like
(18:50):
a fire breathing dragon. So that's not it. But that
was a really interesting experience and it still is. And
I was very clear. I was like, I'm not just
not going to say anything about it, but I'll say
I'll say as little as I can and be clear
about this circumstance because what I won't do is not
(19:13):
stand with my family. Yeah, right, Like, I'm not going
to bow out of this conversation, even though my experience
in Wilmington was actually one of the earliest and the
fastest and then never happened to me again. It was like, no,
I'm standing with my family, of course, And that's an
(19:35):
interesting thing. And I think that's a I think that's
kind of a symptom of the disease of power that
in twenty seventeen we were only just taking the lid
off in our industry, and nobody really knew what the
ramifications were going to be, so it was like, well,
you're going to get out, You're essentially going to go
stand on the highway and hope not to get run over.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I hate that, like the feedback that you've got, and
it's something that I think that we've all sort of
wrestled with that if you've had a bad experience, and
most likely had more than one, you're allowed to talk
at some point about just one. Pick your ball right,
Otherwise it's not their reputation. You're You can't say I've
worked with a bunch of people that have it's been tough.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I've had terrible experiences.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
You're only then that makes you look bad, like, well
the problem to you, and I hate that we are
just given the one allowance to maybe talk about it.
I'm curious also if if anyone's apologized to you your boss,
has there ever been a moment or no, okay, no apologies.
Not that you guys need it, but I'm just curious.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Or would you like it? Would you would it? Would
it do something if you heard from that person.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
The gamma of experience I've had is total silence and
denial to this is how I'm going to get away
with it. And it's like, wow, y'all are wild. But
what I find is helpful because every woman I know
has a story, whether you're in our industry or not.
By the way, like.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Talking about everybody.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, like every friend of mine who went to nursing
school has a story, Every friend of mine in academia
has a story, Like every friend of mine in real estate,
like you know. So, what I think has been really
helpful for me, and I think for all of us
is like when you've been through something horrible, especially at work.
(21:45):
For me, it's been helpful to be like mathematical because
math helps me process emotion. So I'm like, yeah, I
had two people who were absolutely grotesque to me. And
I've been a working actor for twenty years and every
set I've been on has been populated by like a
minimum of two hundred people. So I actually think my
ratio is pretty good. It's just really unfortunate when the
(22:06):
two people are the ones most in control of your life,
Like that's not great, And how are we going to
shift those things? And how are the behaviors around those
things going to change? And you know, how are the
reporting procedures going to be made safer for women and
all these things because we did it all right and
(22:27):
it didn't matter.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
The reporting is maybe even the most complex because yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, I mean again, when I was asking, like what
you would do differently, I mean, when I think about it,
there's so many things right where I'm like, oh my gosh,
I would have done that. But I mean, I remember
being in a situation where what someone was doing was
so bad that someone else called HR.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yep, I had that too.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I remember, I remember getting I remember getting someone came
on set and said, Jessica, someone needs to talk to you,
being like like what I do? What I do, And
then when the HR needs to talk to you, and
I got taken to a room, and I remember my
heart like beating out of my chest and I remember
all the sweat, the sweat and the heart beat, and
(23:16):
I was at work, by the way, It's not like
it was like, you know, I don't respectfully like I'll
grab you on a day off, right, like I'm going
to do another scene after this, And the HR person
asked all the like perfunctory HR questions about this person.
And I remember playing such a chess game in my
head because it was I think my thinking then, which
(23:36):
was not brave and not courageous and not supported or
held by my own self. Firstly, what can I say
that will like be the wink to you're not wrong? Yeah,
and please don't do anything or still.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
My job.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I still want to be liked and I still want
to be thought of as someone that's easy to work with.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Absolutely because I am, because I fucking out.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Women, we're not.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
We're made to feel like if we say this, I
still we're not. And then guess what, it's us who
get written It's not that you get fired, it's that
you get written off.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And you can't argue that's the reason why that you
know deep down that's why you're gone.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
I know, yes, yes, and I crafted that answer in
my head. I think enough to be to then you know,
all right, thank you very much, and I left, and
I remember going into my trailer and weeping, yeah, and
then calling someone who I trusted. This was pre to
(24:52):
This was pre people saying and still have your job.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, pre July twenty seventeen was the out West.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I really was yeah yeah,
but I called and I said, this just happened, and
this was my answer, and what do you think? And
they absolutely said that was this They condoned my avoidance.
It was you know, you said what you needed to
say to keep your job and keep going on and
affirmed yes.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
You would be.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And by the way, it wasn't dishonest what this person said.
They weren't saying. They weren't they were they were furthering
the shit like they were furthering what we all thought
was what we were supposed to do. But they and
they thought they were being protective. But they at the
messaging was absolutely you should say nothing and handle it
(25:39):
yourself and do what you need to do.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Sophia, we have to We only have a few minutes left,
but we have a I have a question for you.
So we got asked in an interview what we would
love to ask Taylor Swift, and I thought about, what
is some sort of misconception about her that she would
like to clear up? So I want to offer you
the same question.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I don't know because I try not to pay attention
to what I think are misconceptions. What I will say is,
I think what's really unfortunate is when the most base
parts of our industry make a lot of money really
being reductive about women. And then no matter who you become,
(26:21):
or the complexity that you are or the service you
live in, anytime they can reduce you to like a
cartoon version of yourself or a trope or stereotype. They'll
do that because they make money on it, not even
because it's true. And that's something I find really hard
to watch. And I think there's a version of that.
(26:44):
I talk to some of my girlfriends about this recently.
I think there's especially a version of that with anyone
who's come from a teen drama, like they want to
keep you in high school drama forever. And I thought
about that a lot because I spent a long weekend
with a girlfriend of mine from my first show, and
we're family. We don't always agree, but like we're family,
(27:07):
and we really sat and just like unpacked. I mean
we spent six and a half hours, like on the couch,
drinking coffees on Sunday, just like digging into some stuff.
And she was like, God, we've been family for twenty
years and even I if we're just texting, can forget
the way you talk to me? And the space you
make for me, rather than the way I hear the
(27:30):
things I read because I read them as my insecure,
twenty one year old self, and I forget the women
we are when we're not in the room together. And
I was like, this can be with your closest people,
like of course, like we were joking earlier, of course,
the internet is a cesspool. Like what we're expecting people
(27:53):
to be like their best themselves from therapy with strangers online.
I wish we were, but we're not. And it's like,
I just wish, particularly for us, we were given a
little more space. We were given space to be brilliant
and imperfect and yeah, we didn't feel like we always
had to get it right just to exist at zero,
(28:14):
like when you were asking me about things. When I
look back at the show, I think about scenes I
wish i'd played differently, been like, oh, I love that
we disrupted this, and I love that we screwed up
the blocking and I remember, and we did this really
cool thing and it's great, And then I'll watch another
scene and be like, oh my god, I wish I'd
played it exactly against how it was written, so that
it communicated like what was coming next, But I didn't
(28:36):
have the wherewithal at twenty two to do that. And now,
you know, there's episodes where I watch it and I'm like,
who told me I could wear my hair like that? Oh?
You know, look at the girls and be like friends
and hair. There's these big lessons about artistry, and there's
big lessons about how how much courage you have, Like
(29:01):
you said, to say the hard thing even though you're
terrified it might disrupt the ship. You know, what does
it mean to ask for help even when you feel
like you've been somewhere long enough that you're not supposed
to need it. Like, I feel like I've learned so
much about myself in terms of my intellect, in terms
(29:22):
of my humor, in terms of being a really good human,
in terms of being absolutely ridiculous. Like I wish we
got to be more of our full selves out in
the world. Yeah, yeah, but that's probably like a hard
I feel.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Like the podcast allows us a little bit to be
more us because we're not on a talk show promote
you know. Yeah, I feel like this allows us to
be a little bit more loose and messy and vulnerable.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
But I agree with you, it's it's it's difficult.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I hear you.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, I feel I feel completely myself in these moments,
you know, even just like you know it's over zoom,
but we're looking at your beautiful face and just the
heart that you bring to you know, the stories that
you tell. And I mean again I have I mean
I've seen you on screen. I have eyeballs and ears
into telephone, right so I telephone is what I just said.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
You know, it rings.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Sometimes and I'm like a little banana phone.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I'm a smartphone.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
The landline.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I see headlines and yeah, no, it's just it is.
That thing is a replacement for being in these kinds
of conversations. So thank you for bringing soia and and.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
For calling it what it is over and over and over.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yes, well to many more, and hopefully I see maybe
I'll see you in the halls of.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Of Graco Memorial.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yes, please come play.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Okay, stay away from the what is it supply closets
or go in I mean I don't know, in guys in.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
The supply closet or was it a call room? I'd
like to know.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Please answer the question all right now we have to Okay,
thank you, Thank you, and let's call it the end
of the episode.
Hosts And Creators
Jessica Capshaw
Camilla Luddington
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Monster: BTK
'Monster: BTK', the newest installment in the 'Monster' franchise, reveals the true story of the Wichita, Kansas serial killer who murdered at least 10 people between 1974 and 1991. Known by the moniker, BTK – Bind Torture Kill, his notoriety was bolstered by the taunting letters he sent to police, and the chilling phone calls he made to media outlets. BTK's identity was finally revealed in 2005 to the shock of his family, his community, and the world. He was the serial killer next door. From Tenderfoot TV & iHeartPodcasts, this is 'Monster: BTK'.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.