June 8, 2026 • 41 mins
From Anne with an E to stage three breast cancer at 19, Miranda McKeon holds nothing back. She opens up about the isolation of treatment, why a mastectomy is not a boob job, sensation-preserving surgery, and what it really takes to rebuild your life and confidence after cancer.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, and welcome back to another episode of Casual Chaos.
This week, we have a very exciting guest, and I'm
a m can and welcome Casual caass. Thank you for
having me. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so
excited to have you here. I can't wait to dive
deep into your story.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Love it. How are you good? A little train trouble
getting here. I also just have been realizing that I'm
certainly addicted to coffee, so I'm like headed to get
one right after. That's where I am in my day.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh yeah, you need a little.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
A little caffe, little booth. I'm like having withdraws. I'm like, oh,
I didn't realize this stuff is actually addictive. So good
to know.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I am honestly not that big of a coffee drinker.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah I wish I was like that. You just have
like natural energy.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
No, I don't have natural energy. I'm actually exhausted right now.
I've been up since five for because I'm to say.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Okay, did you do the glamor did someone else know
someone else did? Okay? Amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
My cousin Olivia is a makeup artist. She's amazing.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Wait that comes in handy.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Comes in handy, big family. Okay, we have someone in
a little bit of everything in the family right which
is I like that.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
But the makeup ARTI ist dephitely good to have in
the back pocket.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Oh, good to have. She's always on deck. You've had
such a unique few years balancing acting, college, health stuff, advocacy,
and now life post treatment. What does life feel like
for you right now?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Oh my gosh, I feel like I'm in a totally
new face from like all of those big elements of
like doing acting, growing up in front of the camera,
being on screen all the time in like a very
professional manner, has now translated into like such a casual
in front of the screen all the time, like literally
(01:43):
my job is talking to my phone. And then as
far as like the cancer health stuff, I feel so
like I feel a lot of lightness in my life,
whereas like before it was heavy and dark and there
was like a ton to work through and there still is.
(02:05):
But I think I've gotten to a point where, like,
I feel so happy, and I didn't think that I
would find that again. So life right now is like
joy and love and light.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I love that. I'm so happy to hear that you
could see it all over your face too. Do you
feel like you're finally free in your twenties?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I think yes, And adulting is a lot of work,
Like I don't have in unit laundry and that I'm like, yes,
I feel free, but I'm also like tethered to the laundromat.
So definitely just like dealing with those everyday adult things
where you're like, wait, this isn't as free as being
a kid anymore. But yeah, I feel like in terms
(02:49):
of living in the city, like being in West Village,
having this whole group of like influencer friends and friends
from high school and college, and like going out all
the time, certainly in like a rogue party era of
my life, and that feels definitely great. Little too free,
So that doesn't like me some grounding, no, but it's
so fun.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Where did you grow up in What led you to
New York City?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
So I grew up in Jersey. I'm from Bergen County
and my parents are now in Burg County. And then
have a spot in Asbury Park as well, so.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Shore and have your Jersey shore summer.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Oh we exactly, I'll be in Asbury all summer long.
We're doing uh see here now, festival Parker House all summer,
just like I can't wait for all the things. But
I always knew that I would probably come to New York,
like I feel like everyone in Jerseys like does the
post grad New York twenties situation. So I knew I
wanted that to happen, which is kind of why I
(03:47):
went out to LA for a bit during college. I
was like, where could I go to college that I
wouldn't probably live. And of course, now having spent so
much time in LA, I met a boy friend in LA,
and like, I do the La to New York thing now,
so I didn't expect to still be there. It's extended
(04:09):
from four years. But ultimately I just knew I wanted
to come and do my twenties in New York. I
feel like it's so iconic from like sex and the
city and all of it.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So you do long distance with your boyfriend back and
forth from LA.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yes, So we met just as I was graduating college,
and like I guess I have kind of manifested it
because I didn't really want to leave LA and I
didn't want to be by coastal. But when I was
looking at like, okay, actually paying two rents. I was like, what,
this makes no sense and no sense at all. We
manifested him into thin air. And then we've been dating
(04:43):
for two years, we've never lived in the same city.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Wow. Yeah, that's amazing and that's awesome that you guys
make it work that you're also living your life in
New York. So you have your own life, your own identity,
not feeling too attached to him, and you could still
manage both.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, I'm definitely like hyper independent.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
That's not a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
But you also have your partners, so you're clearly, you know,
managing both both things.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Well, yeah, what's.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Been bringing you the most joy lately?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Oh my gosh, I like don't have any routine in
my life right now, and I feel like I'm traveling,
Like I feel like I live out of a suitcase.
It's so much traveling, so much just bopping around doing
different things that I would honestly say my friendships bring
me the most joy, because that's like the one consistency
I have right now is the people in my life.
(05:35):
Thank goodness, because we all know when you have friendship troubles,
like all hell breaks loose and I don't know that's
when I'm like my life is over. But I've had
such great friends for so many years now that like
that is my consistent source of joy.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I love that when you have good people around you
that lift you up. I feel like that's the best thing.
You have to just surround yourself around the people who
all so bring you up in life and not bring
you down, and absolutely that'll keep you going.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And it's also like a practice, Like I feel like
I've been in this like influencer scene, like meeting so
many different people in New York for two years now,
and it's definitely taken trial and error of like trying
out different friendships and like dipping my toe in here.
And I think throughout high school and college I got
(06:25):
really good at like surrounding myself with those people. And
then being in New York and like meeting so many
different big personalities and especially people who do this thing
for a living. I'm like, wait, it definitely is a
little tricky and like for sure to navigate, Yeah, and
sometimes you can, like I've been drawn to people who
like don't lift me up, and then I've learned my lesson, Like, Okay,
(06:49):
a couple of things have happened. I'm like, that makes
me feel like moving on.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, No, I feel like, especially in this influencer space,
going to events meeting people, it really is a trial
and error and you have to find the people that
you truly mesh with. Yeah, because some people I always
say this, and I say this to friends, I say
this to anybody. Sometimes you have the people who you
(07:13):
go out with and that's fine, and then you have
friendships that you really value and those are your people. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I think one of the biggest things I learned in
my early twenties was that different friendships have different purposes exactly,
and like, you can't expect your friends to be all
of the things a few of them will be, but.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Like, but count them on one hand, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Count them on one hand. And the more you can
become okay with accepting like maybe my party friends are
just my party friends and not expecting more out of them,
then you find peace in all the different buckets. But like,
it sucks when you, like, are trying to rely on
someone who might not be in that same role.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
You know, so many people know you from and with
an e looking back, what was that experience like for you?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It was literally the best time of my life. I
loved growing up acting, and the set of Anthony was
like kind of a simulation of childhood and of high school.
And because I was out of high school filming this show,
me and all of the castmates, like the guys and
(08:23):
the girls, were all growing up together. There were crushes,
people were dating, people were having first kisses. Like it
was just what it is like to be in high school,
but on set and in an environment where like, yes,
we were working kids and we were working actors, but
like we were also just kids, and I miss it
(08:44):
so much, Like it was truly amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Did you realize at that time how much the show
would impact people?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
No, literally not at all. I auditioned for Anthony in
my basement on a self tape, and first of all,
never thought I would get the job, because the way
the acting goes, it's like you submit an audition and
then don't hear anything for months, and then all of
a sudden, it like pops up out of nowhere, and
then we filmed the first season. I didn't think anything
(09:13):
of it. I didn't even like know this world or
the TV world to like even hope that it would
be successful. I was just like I was really cool,
like great, unindusted, and then the first season came out
and it blew up, and then when it kept on
getting renewed and like my socials started to grow, I
(09:33):
was like, oh wow, like people actually most really liked
this thing. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Do people still come up to you about Josie?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Oh yeah. If you've ever seen like any of my
comments sections, it's literally like half of them were like,
what's that hair tool you're using? Oh my gosh, need
that lip gloss? Wreck? And then it's like Josie Pie,
Josie Pie. Like when it's season four of an Withthony
coming and I always say, babe, there's no plane like there,
people keep on holding out this hope there's gonna be
another season. Meanwhile, what seven years have passed, Like it's
(10:05):
been a really long time. There is absolutely no season four? Yeah, yeah, okay,
sorry to crush anyone's Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I was gonna say. You were diagnosed with stage three
breast cancer at the age of nineteen while you were
in college at USC. Did it feel surreal watching everyone
else live out their college experience and then you had
to undergo treatment?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Oh? Yeah, I was like, what even the hell is this? Well,
I'm losing my hair and feeling like being in cancer
treatment all the time, and my friends are like going
out on the way.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
All your hair by the way, Yeah, oh my god,
it's incredible, thank you, incredible.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I love it. I'm like so thick. So I feel
like everyone in New York has extensions and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Oh, yeah, that's me.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Should I I know, but they look so good. I'm
like I kind of want some now that I like
have long hair. I'm like, I feel like we could
do the whole thing. Yeah, no, but your hair is
so it's not like maintenance, have to do the research,
but just like going the natural route for now. Yeah.
It was like, so I felt so lonely and I
felt really isolated and super alone. And I think that's
(11:17):
where the mental health component comes in, and like I
was really suffering despite being such a happy person. Naturally,
I just felt like I was on my own little island. Meanwhile,
I was at like one of the biggest party schools
in the entire world, had the most vibrant, beautiful, smart
friends and it was totally out of body.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
But I mean, nobody else was experiencing what you were
experiencing at that time, so it as much as everything
was great around you, you didn't feel great. So it
was a very just isolating. It was definitely a very
isolating feeling.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I could only imagine and it was hard to like
even try and explain to my peers. I feel like
I did a lot of work in active communication of
being like trying to explain what I was going through
and like how I was feeling, and as much as
people could empathize, it's like you can't really you don't
really now.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, yeah, you've talked about how important it was to
truly trust your end things. What was that moment like
when you felt that lump.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I mean, honestly, my gut said everything I needed it
to know, Like my stomach fully dropped and I just
knew it was such like it felt almost like a
jelly bean under the skin and I had never felt
that before. Something about it was like screaming in my
body in my head, like this is not normal, this
(12:46):
is irregular. And I immediately started crying. And I don't
even know that that was like, I mean, it wasn't
an overreaction because it turned out to be something, but
I know a lot of young women find lumps and
there's no need for like craziness around it, but definitely
like if your god says something like, well, what is this,
(13:09):
I always advise to get it checked out.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Did you feel dismissed at first because of your age?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Honestly, I feel like my care team was fine, but
they no one thought it was anything. Also, just because
of the stats, like me, the chances of me being
diagnosed with breast cancer at nineteen with no family history
or literally one in a million, like shocking. So I
can't even blame them for not It's not that they
(13:39):
didn't take it seriously from a screening perspective, but everyone
was kind of like, you're fine, like chill out, take
it easy, like, don't make a big stink about it.
They told me it was nothing, and then obviously the
scientific results came back otherwise. But I know so many
young women who have been told like, home, if it
(14:00):
keeps you know, if it keeps growing or whatever, come
back in six months. And that's why we see a
lot of young women who are diagnosed with late stage
cancer because they aren't taking seriously.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, you've been so open online about things people don't
usually like to talk about like medically induced metopause, reconstruction
and body image. Why did you decide to be so transparent?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I think I honestly, it comes a lot from my mom.
She grew up with like super openness in the household
about all different things. She was also a nurse, so
like I was very comfortable with the body. She would
like walk around the house naked growing up. So I
was just have been like a body's body. So when
we're talking about these things like medically induced menopause, or
(14:48):
sexual symptoms from being medically induced menopause, or like going
through different treatments, I think I feel comfortable talking about
it because it's like everyone goes through these things, and
I don't think it's embarrassing, Like all humans have bodies,
so it's kind of like whatever, Like why are you
being weird being all nervous about it? I'm fine, And
(15:11):
I feel like if I set the stage of being comfortable,
other people feel more comfortable as well.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I mean, someone has to talk about it, No, people
have to.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Be talking about this. So much of what I'm talking about,
everyone says like thank you so much, like you're so brave.
I'm like, why am I brave for talking about this,
like these are things that I'm so frustrated by. It
also comes from passion, like I've specifically dealt with all
of these issues myself, so when I feel like some
way about it, I'm willing to get online and talk
(15:41):
about it so the other women don't have to go through.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
It as social media made you feel more connected to
sharing your experience.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I love social media and I love the feedback aspect
of it. Like I won't even lie I ran a
half marathon last year. I would not have done that
if I wasn't able to post about it on social media. Yeah,
I'm so fine with that.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
It's like it's just motivating, honestly, I say it all
the time. A couple of weeks ago, I had to
deep clean my apartment and I was like, I propped
my phone up, got my tripod ready, and I go, hey, guys,
I'm about to deep clean, and you're coming along with me.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Because I'm not going to do that if we're doing
it together exactly. So I think that's where like I
love documenting the process because it is like more fun
to share with an audience. And I've met such an
amazing community of women who support me in all of
my career endeavors, and there's like tips and tricks being
(16:48):
swapped in the comment section, and like real progress being
made by the feedback loop of women being able to
give each other suggestions and forums for outlets.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
You recently talked about why you don't consider your implants
a boob job. I mean, they do really replicate you
surviving cancer. What was your feedback to that and why
did you really want to make that clear on social media?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I mean I had a lot of friends who said
to me before so well intended like, well, at least
you get a free boob job out of this, And
I'm like, it's literally not the same thing. Like my
breasts and everything under them is literally being amputated in
a way where like I have numbness all over my chest.
(17:34):
It's also a much riskier procedure, such a long procedure,
and there's complications down the line that can arise with
having a double mastectomy as opposed to a boob job. Also,
the results just like literally aren't the same. I have
an amazing surgeon, and like I really do love my implants,
(17:55):
and you'll see on my social media, like I'm always
wearing cleavage. I love it and I love showing them off,
but there's a lot of like a symmetry and scarring
that's a lot more intense than what a traditional boob
job is, which I think are like amazing, And honestly,
(18:16):
who's to say I wouldn't have had a boob job
if I didn't have this, But it's just totally different,
and it's like harmful rhetoric to be saying a mass
text me is a boob job when it's not, because
like a lot of people who go through cancer don't
want a boob job. They didn't want to do anything.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
They loved their breast before. They also don't want to
go through another surgery. I mean, my aunt, she's one year.
She had breast cancer last year, so she's one year
cancer free, and it was a scary time for our
entire family. You know, just hearing the word, you know, cancer,
(18:53):
it's just you. Yeah, it's terrifying. You don't know how
to feel or how to act. But I also remember
when she got her double misctomy, like she just felt
like her feminineness was just taken away from her, Like
she just felt so I don't even want to say
(19:14):
the word ugly, but yeah, she just felt so ugly
and insecure, like within her body because like your boobs,
like your boobs make you, you know, feel confident and
you know, just complete as a woman. And I just
feel like having that taken away from you is something
(19:34):
that you can't even imagine.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, and there's so many I think going through cancer
treatment brought up so many body image challenges that I
had too. And just like there were certain weight fluctuations
going through treatment that almost I didn't notice in the moment,
but afterwards like realize them, and that totally changed the
(19:56):
way that I think about my body and have like
related to my own body image. So it's certainly hard,
and I know so many women who are going through
it really struggle with that aspect.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I know it's not easy. Yeah, you've also talked about
choosing a sensation preserving misseectomy. Please tell me more about this.
I'm so intrigued. How empowering was it for you to
learn that there were options that you didn't even know
existed at first?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I mean incredible, And I had no idea what a
sensation preserving mass sectomy was. I didn't even know what
a mass sectomy was, but I was originally scheduled with
the surgeon in LA who did Angelina Jolie's boobs and
he's like the super famous old guy who's known in
Hollywood blah blah blah. When I got in that doctor's office,
(20:47):
I felt so unsafe, so like creeped out and just
like weird vibes. Oh no, weird, weird, weird vibes. And
immediately I was just like, like, I didn't feel good
about surgery going into it.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, And I mean I think, and you can obviously
advocate for this, but I think I've gotten my nose
done before. I mean, going into surgery regardless, like when
you're going under the knife, you want to feel comfortable
with your surgeon and that you're safe.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, a thousand percent. And like not all surgeons have
incredible bedside manner, but like ideally you just want to
feel like kind of good about them really yeah, yeah,
you like them a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I think. Also the vibe of the office says a lot.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, no, totally. I also just like get along with
women better in general. But when we did more research,
we discovered this thing called a sensation preserving mass s tect.
To me, so with a normal uh mass sect. To me,
when women have breast cancer, you're normally numb from like
your mid belly button to your top of your chest.
(21:50):
So like things like feeling a hug or someone touching you,
like you have no concept of any.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Of that even after put the mplant in.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Oh yeah, Like they have to cut through all of
the nerves and none of them are spared in a
traditional mass s tectomy, So that creates a lot of
body image problems and just like you can't even tell
if like your nipples out at a bathing suit, you
know what I'm saying. So with a sensation preserving mass tect,
to me, they try and preserve more of the nerves
that are running through your.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Tissue, which can that also be risky though.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
It doesn't it doesn't increase risk actually, and it doesn't
increase risk of reoccurrence. It's totally just as safe as
having a traditional mass s tect. To me, it just
increases your quality of life. So I flew out to
San Francisco had surgery done by this doctor, doctor Pellead,
and it's not perfect. You don't get one hundred percent
(22:48):
of sensation back, and it's a wide range but essentially,
I'd say probably like sixty percent of my sensation came
back over the course of three years, which it's really
amazing and something that I didn't even think I had,
and I don't even know like what my life would
be like if I didn't have it. There's still like
I have nip slips all the time. You can't feel that,
(23:11):
so my friends have to help me out on the
beach when I'm taking photos and like trying to pull
the girls up. But yeah, it's a really amazing option
that hopefully is becoming more widespread.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Oh, I hope. So I mean even just thinking in general,
even for yourself, I mean not just sound weird, but
I mean you want to feel when you're in the
shower or just anything totally. You want to be able
to feel your body exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's just like a normal human thing, like you should
be able to. Also. The breastplay such a large part
in intimacy too, Like that's a big role that people
don't like to talk about because it's uncomfortable. But I
had my surgeon on my podcast and she talked a
lot about sexual stimulation and nipple stimulation and like all
this stuff where I was like.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
I don't even think about that, Like when you really
put it into personspective, I mean it's huge. Yeah, You've
been vocal recently about your frustrations with parts of the
wellness industry. What started to shift your perspective of wellness
after going through cancer?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I think I just like relate to my body differently now,
Like I used to think that you in order to
be well, you had to be like recovering from something,
or like something had to happen for you to like
want to get a certain way, or like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Like you thought that something had to happen for you
to want to like get on your wellness journey.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah exactly, Okay, But now I've realized, like, if you
have a body, you're already on a wellness journey, and
it's more of like a fluid thing. I think I
used to be, like I don't know, when I was
young and impressionable, and in high school and college, I
would read about out or receive videos about all of
these fad diets and like you need this kind of
(24:55):
exercise to have this kind of waste, and like all
of this propaganda that literally like pushed upon us, And
I think I've now have such a more of a
well rounded perspective in terms of like eating and diet
and exercise, and I think it can actually be a
lot more like fun than restrictive.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Do you feel like social media kind of presents this
more of an anxious feeling around wellness.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, it's never like fun. I think it's always like, don't
eat this food if you don't want cancer, or like
do this to not get cancer, and like exercise this
certain way. Meanwhile, like what we should really be talking
about is like I think the easiest way to change
something is actually to add things into your life, like
keep the plate the way it is, but like why
(25:45):
don't we work on adding some more greens or keep
your exercise the way it is? But like, yeah, exactly
instead of like all this restrictive mindset.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It's so and I think people have come around more
to that, and you see creators now more or so
on TikTok and Instagram talking about how you can't restrict
yourself because if you tell yourself, okay completely XL carbs,
you're gonna want the carbs ten times more and they're
gonna be calling your name. Where it's implement a little
(26:15):
bit of carbs into your diet, but then substitute it
with more protein totally, or add more protein into your diet.
Like there's a way of doing it where it's not okay,
let me completely restrict myself of everything, yep, because then
it's just not sustainable. None of these diets, none of
these they're not sustainable. You have to make sure you
find a regiment that works for you. Otherwise there's no
(26:38):
way you could say, let me eat salad for the
rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
And it's also like looking at overall health, it's a
lifelong journey. It's not like the month long, the thirty
days that you do of a salad cleanse. It's going
to impact your overall health, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
No, might make you just lose a couple of bounds temporarily.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, you've said healthcare is deeply personal and there's no
perfect way to heal. Was it important for you to
move away from the pressure of doing wellness correctly?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
M Yeah. I think, like I'm still trying to figure
it out because there are so many things that I
do in my life, especially I said, like I'm in
my party era, like that's not technically under wellness except
that it is because it's part of my life and
it's part of finding joy. And I think a lot.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Of people of your social wellness, it's.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Part of my social wellness. People don't talk about that.
That's extremely valid.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
So I think like just getting outside, getting fresh air,
going to meet your friends, grabbing a drink.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Getting a spreads.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yes, it's it is all a part of making you
happy and boosting your serotonin levels, like staying inside and
just waking up, going to work, working out, going home. Like, no,
you need to interact with people, you need to get out.
It's all a part of it.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
But yeah, so I think, like I go back and
forth because I know, like based on science, like alcohol
is just not good for us.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
We can tell by the way we feel when we exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I'm like, yeah, so this is actually destroying my body.
And at the same time, if I try to be
perfect in everything, I would go crazy. So it's an
everyday practice. I still am. Like something I actively struggle with, honestly,
is like trying to find the balance between doing everything
right and reducing my risk of reoccurrence and also like
(28:31):
having fun and being balanced.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
What was the hardest part about treatment that somebody wouldn't
understand unless they went through it.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
I think, honestly, it's similar with like a lot of
different cases of grief when you lose someone or you
lose yourself. I equate the cancer journey with like having
a lot of personal grief around, like losing who I was,
and like losing what my life was before I came
(29:01):
to terms with my own mortality. I think a lot
of people don't realize how hard it is after that occurrence.
And yes, active treatment was hard, and physically I really
didn't feel well, and that affects your mental health and
all of that. But honestly, for the months afterward, I
(29:22):
struggled a lot mentally, and I think people thought my
cancer journey was over, but I still held on to
a lot of that emotion and grief and anxiety in
ways that I wish people knew that we should still
be checking in on people long after they've lost someone,
or long after the services, or long after cancer journey ends,
(29:43):
like we still need support.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
You've said cancer change your relationship with time and gratitude.
In what ways did it change that for you?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I don't know, Like I think I've always been a
very grateful person. I think I need gratitude as a
tool now more than ever, honestly, because my life really
has gone back to normal. Like I think people think
you get cancer and then you're like, I just like
live every day differently now, and some people who have
(30:25):
had cancer say that, and I think I totally respect that.
I respect howeveryone moves on from it. I was like,
I want to have to go back to normal, and
it did. So now I stress out about myself tan
and if I should get hair extensions and am I
doing the right kind of brain partnerships and am I
growing my career in the right way? And did I
drink too much alcohol last weekend? And like that's what
(30:46):
my brain swirls are on with. So I always need
to come back to my gratitude practice, and honestly, like
haven't been in it in a while. I feel like
to root back down. Like whenever I'm really struggling, I
literally in my journal like I'm grateful for my mom,
I'm grateful for my dad, And it's so basic helps
every single time.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Do you ever get tired of people seeing you through
the lens of a survivor?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, all the time. I'm like that is like, of
course interesting because everyone wants to know what it's like
to think they're going to die and then come back,
and like, I get it super interesting.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I think everyone is interested in the story. But kind
of like what you were saying, how you were just
talking about how you wanted your life to go back
to normal. Yeah, I feel like most people do want that. Yeah,
they want their life to go back to normal, and
they don't want to be known as, oh, this is
the only thing that I went through. From that, do
(31:45):
you have a lot of knowledge and experience, one hundred percent,
But from that now you are living your life in
a different lens. Not yes, you are a survivor in
the back of your head. Of course, that is with
you every single day. But I think moving forward in
the story that you tell every day on this is
now your life is also what is even more inspiring,
(32:07):
Like don't let this journey hold you back, move on
and make those steps forward.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
That's so sweet. Yeah, absolutely, because.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I feel like, you know, just in general, it doesn't
have to even be you know, your cancer journey. Everybody
goes through something in their life. Nobody's life is perfect,
and I think that's been proven in many different situations.
I'll use my family as an example because I know
that this bothers my mother to no end. My family
went through legal stuff, and when people refer to my
(32:38):
mom as a criminal, that is something that really irritates
my mom. Yeah, because the situation was not it was
you know, it was done without her really knowing what
was going on, and it's you know, she didn't create
these criminal acts and they were not malicious or intentional,
(33:04):
and same with my father, but things just got out
of hand. And you know that things happen in life,
but them as people and their personalities and who they
are as a person and who they have grown in
the public eye and as TV personalities and just human beings.
(33:25):
I think everybody goes through something in their life and
then it's okay, now we're moving on. Now we don't
need to bring up things that were you know, from
so long.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, And it's like tough when you get labeled as
something that you don't resonate with or you don't align with.
And so I think, like for me in terms of
the cancer survivor stuff and like that being brought up
all the time, I know for myself, like I contain multitudes,
I am such I have so many different like people
(33:57):
within me, and I know that I'm so much outside
of that that if that is what is labeled for
marketing career and as a story to like lead into
people discovering who I am outside of that, that's okay
with me. And I also know that by sharing my story,
(34:17):
I'm saving a lot of lives and inspiring a lot
of young women, and that is important. As annoyed as
I could be, like I would like, please any other
job than this one.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
You've talked about redefining what the college experience looked like
for you after cancer. What do you wish people understood
more about non traditional paths through college and young adulthood.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I mean I was just like always in and out
of school. So I would say, if you form a
good relationship with your teachers, like you can create whatever
path you want. And granted, I think I was lucky
in that like a lot of the school systems I
was in were in like we're more creative or like,
I don't know. My teachers loved me. So when I
(35:02):
would go to them and be like, hey, I want
to do this assignment this way, normally it was approved
under certain guidelines, but there's no one path. I have
friends who took gap years and like traveled to India. Like,
there's lots of different ways to do life, and people
are like terrified of the fact that you can do
it in different ways and you don't have to follow
(35:23):
the path. But if you have the courage to do it,
what would.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
You say to another young woman who's scared to advocate
for herself medically.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
That's a real thing. I've been in so many doctor's offices,
especially like the dynamic of being a young woman and
having an older male figure in the room. There's just
like a natural power dynamic there. I would say, literally
call someone on the phone, like call your friend on
the phone in the bathroom and be like, Hi, I
need you to like help me out in this situation.
(35:57):
If you can't do it yourself, get someone in the
room who can with you. And because that's like you
can't just tell someone like be brave, Okay, Like we
could tell you that all day long. If you know
you need a little bit of assistance.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Get that. I couldn't agree more because I feel like
it is a little intimidating when you're walking into a
doctor's office, regardless of who's in the room with you.
It just makes you a little on edge, especially even
just I think being fully honest with the doctor, like
even if they when they ask you those list of
questions in the beginning, when is the last.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Time you had sex?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Or like like I remember, do you know? Do you how?
Which alcohol do you drink? Like I remember going to
my them them asking about oral sex. I was like,
what the my mom's in the room.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I know.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I mean, you know you're denied, I deny can really.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, your dentist knows, are you kidding? Yea, I sirir,
I don't know how. I don't know what goes on
in your mouth after the first time you do it,
but yeah, your dentist knows.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
We need to like fact check this.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I swear I'm not lying, but yeah, no, but I
do mortified. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I'm just kidding. I've never done that.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
But yeah, but yeah, I know. I couldn't agree more.
I think those like list of questions are just really
like being honest with the doctor. I think it's the
possibility of the what if, Okay, so you drink X
amount of days a week or babe, or you or
you're sexually okay, what's coming next? Then? Yeah? If I'm
(37:39):
honest with you.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Like are you going to give me a test? Or
like what's the deal here?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah? Do you feel like this experience changed how you
approached dating and relationships?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Oh? Yeah, I thought I would never find love after
having cancer. Like I was actually certain I would never
find love after No. No, come on, you got new
new booths.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
They were scarre feeling they.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Were and I didn't at the time, and I was like,
still my hair was like this. Sure, I was like,
and I had so much rama and baggage. I was like, yeah,
shop is closed, buy everyone file out the door here.
And then it took time. Yeah, life got better.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
It also took time for you to really feel confident
again in your own skin. Also, their aspect is huge.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, I was not actually wait, I was gonna say, like,
I was not like seeing people. I totally was like
kissing people in a wig. I think I was like
still dating a little bit through that time.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
I just why not.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, I think it was just like scared of like intimacy.
But I I don't know, I've always like loved boys,
love flirting's.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I guess there could just be a lot of pressure
to it.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
And if I was like, you're own guide, Tobarls probably
thinking about things that obviously nobody else was thinking about
when they were looking at you. Right, But if it's
dark in the war, I'm like, they know I have
a way gone, and it's like no, they actually don't know,
and it doesn't even matter. But then I was like,
I'm not going home with anyone because then then you're
gonna know.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, then the wag's coming up and the wag's coming off.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
So that was, oh my god, like best of times,
worst of times, the worst of times. But yeah, now
having a partner he like wasn't there during that time
I think that's what I was scared of too. It's
like I would start dating someone and like they they
wouldn't have been there, so they wouldn't like understand understand,
But he does because I've like explained it all and
(39:42):
he listens and asks questions.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
So you've built such a strong community online through honesty.
What's been the most meaningful message someone has sent you?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Oh my gosh, I get so many like tear jerker
messages all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Sure, I'm so emotional. I feel like I would just
right of.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
I get so many people who are like, I followed
you for a while. My mom was diagnosed with breast
cancer and like she was really struggling with this. I
show her your videos and like she feels so much
more hope and like she's asking her doctor about this,
and like tangible stories of women feeling relieved because they
(40:25):
found my page that seriously just like washes over me,
Like it's everything I wanted at the time, you know,
So being able to give that to people now it's
like everything I wanted.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
So what's next for you?
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Oh my gosh, so many things. I am really just
chronically online at the moment. Like I feel like my
so much has changed in terms of like partnerships in
the past even two years since moving to New York,
and I'm really enjoying being in the social media space.
I also have my own podcast called Paying three six five,
(41:03):
and we talk a lot about women's health, women empowerment.
So we're renewing for a second season of that and
hopefully building the brand into like something that can exist
as a bigger space outside of having these meaningful conversations,
but as resources for young women.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming on casual
O Chaos. This is awesome. Love it.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Thank you for having me
Hey guys, and welcome back to another episode of Casual Chaos.
This week, we have a very exciting guest, and I'm
a m can and welcome Casual caass. Thank you for
having me. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so
excited to have you here. I can't wait to dive
deep into your story.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Love it. How are you good? A little train trouble
getting here. I also just have been realizing that I'm
certainly addicted to coffee, so I'm like headed to get
one right after. That's where I am in my day.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh yeah, you need a little.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
A little caffe, little booth. I'm like having withdraws. I'm like, oh,
I didn't realize this stuff is actually addictive. So good
to know.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I am honestly not that big of a coffee drinker.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah I wish I was like that. You just have
like natural energy.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
No, I don't have natural energy. I'm actually exhausted right now.
I've been up since five for because I'm to say.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Okay, did you do the glamor did someone else know
someone else did? Okay? Amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
My cousin Olivia is a makeup artist. She's amazing.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Wait that comes in handy.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Comes in handy, big family. Okay, we have someone in
a little bit of everything in the family right which
is I like that.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
But the makeup ARTI ist dephitely good to have in
the back pocket.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Oh, good to have. She's always on deck. You've had
such a unique few years balancing acting, college, health stuff, advocacy,
and now life post treatment. What does life feel like
for you right now?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Oh my gosh, I feel like I'm in a totally
new face from like all of those big elements of
like doing acting, growing up in front of the camera,
being on screen all the time in like a very
professional manner, has now translated into like such a casual
in front of the screen all the time, like literally
(01:43):
my job is talking to my phone. And then as
far as like the cancer health stuff, I feel so
like I feel a lot of lightness in my life,
whereas like before it was heavy and dark and there
was like a ton to work through and there still is.
(02:05):
But I think I've gotten to a point where, like,
I feel so happy, and I didn't think that I
would find that again. So life right now is like
joy and love and light.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I love that. I'm so happy to hear that you
could see it all over your face too. Do you
feel like you're finally free in your twenties?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I think yes, And adulting is a lot of work,
Like I don't have in unit laundry and that I'm like, yes,
I feel free, but I'm also like tethered to the laundromat.
So definitely just like dealing with those everyday adult things
where you're like, wait, this isn't as free as being
a kid anymore. But yeah, I feel like in terms
(02:49):
of living in the city, like being in West Village,
having this whole group of like influencer friends and friends
from high school and college, and like going out all
the time, certainly in like a rogue party era of
my life, and that feels definitely great. Little too free,
So that doesn't like me some grounding, no, but it's
so fun.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Where did you grow up in What led you to
New York City?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
So I grew up in Jersey. I'm from Bergen County
and my parents are now in Burg County. And then
have a spot in Asbury Park as well, so.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Shore and have your Jersey shore summer.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Oh we exactly, I'll be in Asbury all summer long.
We're doing uh see here now, festival Parker House all summer,
just like I can't wait for all the things. But
I always knew that I would probably come to New York,
like I feel like everyone in Jerseys like does the
post grad New York twenties situation. So I knew I
wanted that to happen, which is kind of why I
(03:47):
went out to LA for a bit during college. I
was like, where could I go to college that I
wouldn't probably live. And of course, now having spent so
much time in LA, I met a boy friend in LA,
and like, I do the La to New York thing now,
so I didn't expect to still be there. It's extended
(04:09):
from four years. But ultimately I just knew I wanted
to come and do my twenties in New York. I
feel like it's so iconic from like sex and the
city and all of it.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So you do long distance with your boyfriend back and
forth from LA.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yes, So we met just as I was graduating college,
and like I guess I have kind of manifested it
because I didn't really want to leave LA and I
didn't want to be by coastal. But when I was
looking at like, okay, actually paying two rents. I was like, what,
this makes no sense and no sense at all. We
manifested him into thin air. And then we've been dating
(04:43):
for two years, we've never lived in the same city.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Wow. Yeah, that's amazing and that's awesome that you guys
make it work that you're also living your life in
New York. So you have your own life, your own identity,
not feeling too attached to him, and you could still
manage both.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, I'm definitely like hyper independent.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
That's not a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
But you also have your partners, so you're clearly, you know,
managing both both things.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Well, yeah, what's.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Been bringing you the most joy lately?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Oh my gosh, I like don't have any routine in
my life right now, and I feel like I'm traveling,
Like I feel like I live out of a suitcase.
It's so much traveling, so much just bopping around doing
different things that I would honestly say my friendships bring
me the most joy, because that's like the one consistency
I have right now is the people in my life.
(05:35):
Thank goodness, because we all know when you have friendship troubles,
like all hell breaks loose and I don't know that's
when I'm like my life is over. But I've had
such great friends for so many years now that like
that is my consistent source of joy.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I love that when you have good people around you
that lift you up. I feel like that's the best thing.
You have to just surround yourself around the people who
all so bring you up in life and not bring
you down, and absolutely that'll keep you going.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And it's also like a practice, Like I feel like
I've been in this like influencer scene, like meeting so
many different people in New York for two years now,
and it's definitely taken trial and error of like trying
out different friendships and like dipping my toe in here.
And I think throughout high school and college I got
(06:25):
really good at like surrounding myself with those people. And
then being in New York and like meeting so many
different big personalities and especially people who do this thing
for a living. I'm like, wait, it definitely is a
little tricky and like for sure to navigate, Yeah, and
sometimes you can, like I've been drawn to people who
like don't lift me up, and then I've learned my lesson, Like, Okay,
(06:49):
a couple of things have happened. I'm like, that makes
me feel like moving on.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, No, I feel like, especially in this influencer space,
going to events meeting people, it really is a trial
and error and you have to find the people that
you truly mesh with. Yeah, because some people I always
say this, and I say this to friends, I say
this to anybody. Sometimes you have the people who you
(07:13):
go out with and that's fine, and then you have
friendships that you really value and those are your people. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I think one of the biggest things I learned in
my early twenties was that different friendships have different purposes exactly,
and like, you can't expect your friends to be all
of the things a few of them will be, but.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Like, but count them on one hand, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Count them on one hand. And the more you can
become okay with accepting like maybe my party friends are
just my party friends and not expecting more out of them,
then you find peace in all the different buckets. But like,
it sucks when you, like, are trying to rely on
someone who might not be in that same role.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
You know, so many people know you from and with
an e looking back, what was that experience like for you?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It was literally the best time of my life. I
loved growing up acting, and the set of Anthony was
like kind of a simulation of childhood and of high school.
And because I was out of high school filming this show,
me and all of the castmates, like the guys and
(08:23):
the girls, were all growing up together. There were crushes,
people were dating, people were having first kisses. Like it
was just what it is like to be in high school,
but on set and in an environment where like, yes,
we were working kids and we were working actors, but
like we were also just kids, and I miss it
(08:44):
so much, Like it was truly amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Did you realize at that time how much the show
would impact people?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
No, literally not at all. I auditioned for Anthony in
my basement on a self tape, and first of all,
never thought I would get the job, because the way
the acting goes, it's like you submit an audition and
then don't hear anything for months, and then all of
a sudden, it like pops up out of nowhere, and
then we filmed the first season. I didn't think anything
(09:13):
of it. I didn't even like know this world or
the TV world to like even hope that it would
be successful. I was just like I was really cool,
like great, unindusted, and then the first season came out
and it blew up, and then when it kept on
getting renewed and like my socials started to grow, I
(09:33):
was like, oh wow, like people actually most really liked
this thing. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Do people still come up to you about Josie?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Oh yeah. If you've ever seen like any of my
comments sections, it's literally like half of them were like,
what's that hair tool you're using? Oh my gosh, need
that lip gloss? Wreck? And then it's like Josie Pie,
Josie Pie. Like when it's season four of an Withthony
coming and I always say, babe, there's no plane like there,
people keep on holding out this hope there's gonna be
another season. Meanwhile, what seven years have passed, Like it's
(10:05):
been a really long time. There is absolutely no season four? Yeah, yeah, okay,
sorry to crush anyone's Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I was gonna say. You were diagnosed with stage three
breast cancer at the age of nineteen while you were
in college at USC. Did it feel surreal watching everyone
else live out their college experience and then you had
to undergo treatment?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Oh? Yeah, I was like, what even the hell is this? Well,
I'm losing my hair and feeling like being in cancer
treatment all the time, and my friends are like going
out on the way.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
All your hair by the way, Yeah, oh my god,
it's incredible, thank you, incredible.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I love it. I'm like so thick. So I feel
like everyone in New York has extensions and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Oh, yeah, that's me.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Should I I know, but they look so good. I'm
like I kind of want some now that I like
have long hair. I'm like, I feel like we could
do the whole thing. Yeah, no, but your hair is
so it's not like maintenance, have to do the research,
but just like going the natural route for now. Yeah.
It was like, so I felt so lonely and I
felt really isolated and super alone. And I think that's
(11:17):
where the mental health component comes in, and like I
was really suffering despite being such a happy person. Naturally,
I just felt like I was on my own little island. Meanwhile,
I was at like one of the biggest party schools
in the entire world, had the most vibrant, beautiful, smart
friends and it was totally out of body.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
But I mean, nobody else was experiencing what you were
experiencing at that time, so it as much as everything
was great around you, you didn't feel great. So it
was a very just isolating. It was definitely a very
isolating feeling.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I could only imagine and it was hard to like
even try and explain to my peers. I feel like
I did a lot of work in active communication of
being like trying to explain what I was going through
and like how I was feeling, and as much as
people could empathize, it's like you can't really you don't
really now.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, yeah, you've talked about how important it was to
truly trust your end things. What was that moment like
when you felt that lump.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I mean, honestly, my gut said everything I needed it
to know, Like my stomach fully dropped and I just
knew it was such like it felt almost like a
jelly bean under the skin and I had never felt
that before. Something about it was like screaming in my
body in my head, like this is not normal, this
(12:46):
is irregular. And I immediately started crying. And I don't
even know that that was like, I mean, it wasn't
an overreaction because it turned out to be something, but
I know a lot of young women find lumps and
there's no need for like craziness around it, but definitely
like if your god says something like, well, what is this,
(13:09):
I always advise to get it checked out.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Did you feel dismissed at first because of your age?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Honestly, I feel like my care team was fine, but
they no one thought it was anything. Also, just because
of the stats, like me, the chances of me being
diagnosed with breast cancer at nineteen with no family history
or literally one in a million, like shocking. So I
can't even blame them for not It's not that they
(13:39):
didn't take it seriously from a screening perspective, but everyone
was kind of like, you're fine, like chill out, take
it easy, like, don't make a big stink about it.
They told me it was nothing, and then obviously the
scientific results came back otherwise. But I know so many
young women who have been told like, home, if it
(14:00):
keeps you know, if it keeps growing or whatever, come
back in six months. And that's why we see a
lot of young women who are diagnosed with late stage
cancer because they aren't taking seriously.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, you've been so open online about things people don't
usually like to talk about like medically induced metopause, reconstruction
and body image. Why did you decide to be so transparent?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I think I honestly, it comes a lot from my mom.
She grew up with like super openness in the household
about all different things. She was also a nurse, so
like I was very comfortable with the body. She would
like walk around the house naked growing up. So I
was just have been like a body's body. So when
we're talking about these things like medically induced menopause, or
(14:48):
sexual symptoms from being medically induced menopause, or like going
through different treatments, I think I feel comfortable talking about
it because it's like everyone goes through these things, and
I don't think it's embarrassing, Like all humans have bodies,
so it's kind of like whatever, Like why are you
being weird being all nervous about it? I'm fine, And
(15:11):
I feel like if I set the stage of being comfortable,
other people feel more comfortable as well.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I mean, someone has to talk about it, No, people
have to.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Be talking about this. So much of what I'm talking about,
everyone says like thank you so much, like you're so brave.
I'm like, why am I brave for talking about this,
like these are things that I'm so frustrated by. It
also comes from passion, like I've specifically dealt with all
of these issues myself, so when I feel like some
way about it, I'm willing to get online and talk
(15:41):
about it so the other women don't have to go through.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
It as social media made you feel more connected to
sharing your experience.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I love social media and I love the feedback aspect
of it. Like I won't even lie I ran a
half marathon last year. I would not have done that
if I wasn't able to post about it on social media. Yeah,
I'm so fine with that.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
It's like it's just motivating, honestly, I say it all
the time. A couple of weeks ago, I had to
deep clean my apartment and I was like, I propped
my phone up, got my tripod ready, and I go, hey, guys,
I'm about to deep clean, and you're coming along with me.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Because I'm not going to do that if we're doing
it together exactly. So I think that's where like I
love documenting the process because it is like more fun
to share with an audience. And I've met such an
amazing community of women who support me in all of
my career endeavors, and there's like tips and tricks being
(16:48):
swapped in the comment section, and like real progress being
made by the feedback loop of women being able to
give each other suggestions and forums for outlets.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
You recently talked about why you don't consider your implants
a boob job. I mean, they do really replicate you
surviving cancer. What was your feedback to that and why
did you really want to make that clear on social media?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I mean I had a lot of friends who said
to me before so well intended like, well, at least
you get a free boob job out of this, And
I'm like, it's literally not the same thing. Like my
breasts and everything under them is literally being amputated in
a way where like I have numbness all over my chest.
(17:34):
It's also a much riskier procedure, such a long procedure,
and there's complications down the line that can arise with
having a double mastectomy as opposed to a boob job. Also,
the results just like literally aren't the same. I have
an amazing surgeon, and like I really do love my implants,
(17:55):
and you'll see on my social media, like I'm always
wearing cleavage. I love it and I love showing them off,
but there's a lot of like a symmetry and scarring
that's a lot more intense than what a traditional boob
job is, which I think are like amazing, And honestly,
(18:16):
who's to say I wouldn't have had a boob job
if I didn't have this, But it's just totally different,
and it's like harmful rhetoric to be saying a mass
text me is a boob job when it's not, because
like a lot of people who go through cancer don't
want a boob job. They didn't want to do anything.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
They loved their breast before. They also don't want to
go through another surgery. I mean, my aunt, she's one year.
She had breast cancer last year, so she's one year
cancer free, and it was a scary time for our
entire family. You know, just hearing the word, you know, cancer,
(18:53):
it's just you. Yeah, it's terrifying. You don't know how
to feel or how to act. But I also remember
when she got her double misctomy, like she just felt
like her feminineness was just taken away from her, Like
she just felt so I don't even want to say
(19:14):
the word ugly, but yeah, she just felt so ugly
and insecure, like within her body because like your boobs,
like your boobs make you, you know, feel confident and
you know, just complete as a woman. And I just
feel like having that taken away from you is something
(19:34):
that you can't even imagine.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, and there's so many I think going through cancer
treatment brought up so many body image challenges that I
had too. And just like there were certain weight fluctuations
going through treatment that almost I didn't notice in the moment,
but afterwards like realize them, and that totally changed the
(19:56):
way that I think about my body and have like
related to my own body image. So it's certainly hard,
and I know so many women who are going through
it really struggle with that aspect.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I know it's not easy. Yeah, you've also talked about
choosing a sensation preserving misseectomy. Please tell me more about this.
I'm so intrigued. How empowering was it for you to
learn that there were options that you didn't even know
existed at first?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I mean incredible, And I had no idea what a
sensation preserving mass sectomy was. I didn't even know what
a mass sectomy was, but I was originally scheduled with
the surgeon in LA who did Angelina Jolie's boobs and
he's like the super famous old guy who's known in
Hollywood blah blah blah. When I got in that doctor's office,
(20:47):
I felt so unsafe, so like creeped out and just
like weird vibes. Oh no, weird, weird, weird vibes. And
immediately I was just like, like, I didn't feel good
about surgery going into it.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, And I mean I think, and you can obviously
advocate for this, but I think I've gotten my nose
done before. I mean, going into surgery regardless, like when
you're going under the knife, you want to feel comfortable
with your surgeon and that you're safe.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, a thousand percent. And like not all surgeons have
incredible bedside manner, but like ideally you just want to
feel like kind of good about them really yeah, yeah,
you like them a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I think. Also the vibe of the office says a lot.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, no, totally. I also just like get along with
women better in general. But when we did more research,
we discovered this thing called a sensation preserving mass s tect.
To me, so with a normal uh mass sect. To me,
when women have breast cancer, you're normally numb from like
your mid belly button to your top of your chest.
(21:50):
So like things like feeling a hug or someone touching you,
like you have no concept of any.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Of that even after put the mplant in.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Oh yeah, Like they have to cut through all of
the nerves and none of them are spared in a
traditional mass s tectomy, So that creates a lot of
body image problems and just like you can't even tell
if like your nipples out at a bathing suit, you
know what I'm saying. So with a sensation preserving mass tect,
to me, they try and preserve more of the nerves
that are running through your.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Tissue, which can that also be risky though.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
It doesn't it doesn't increase risk actually, and it doesn't
increase risk of reoccurrence. It's totally just as safe as
having a traditional mass s tect. To me, it just
increases your quality of life. So I flew out to
San Francisco had surgery done by this doctor, doctor Pellead,
and it's not perfect. You don't get one hundred percent
(22:48):
of sensation back, and it's a wide range but essentially,
I'd say probably like sixty percent of my sensation came
back over the course of three years, which it's really
amazing and something that I didn't even think I had,
and I don't even know like what my life would
be like if I didn't have it. There's still like
I have nip slips all the time. You can't feel that,
(23:11):
so my friends have to help me out on the
beach when I'm taking photos and like trying to pull
the girls up. But yeah, it's a really amazing option
that hopefully is becoming more widespread.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Oh, I hope. So I mean even just thinking in general,
even for yourself, I mean not just sound weird, but
I mean you want to feel when you're in the
shower or just anything totally. You want to be able
to feel your body exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's just like a normal human thing, like you should
be able to. Also. The breastplay such a large part
in intimacy too, Like that's a big role that people
don't like to talk about because it's uncomfortable. But I
had my surgeon on my podcast and she talked a
lot about sexual stimulation and nipple stimulation and like all
this stuff where I was like.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
I don't even think about that, Like when you really
put it into personspective, I mean it's huge. Yeah, You've
been vocal recently about your frustrations with parts of the
wellness industry. What started to shift your perspective of wellness
after going through cancer?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I think I just like relate to my body differently now,
Like I used to think that you in order to
be well, you had to be like recovering from something,
or like something had to happen for you to like
want to get a certain way, or like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Like you thought that something had to happen for you
to want to like get on your wellness journey.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah exactly, Okay, But now I've realized, like, if you
have a body, you're already on a wellness journey, and
it's more of like a fluid thing. I think I
used to be, like I don't know, when I was
young and impressionable, and in high school and college, I
would read about out or receive videos about all of
these fad diets and like you need this kind of
(24:55):
exercise to have this kind of waste, and like all
of this propaganda that literally like pushed upon us, And
I think I've now have such a more of a
well rounded perspective in terms of like eating and diet
and exercise, and I think it can actually be a
lot more like fun than restrictive.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Do you feel like social media kind of presents this
more of an anxious feeling around wellness.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, it's never like fun. I think it's always like, don't
eat this food if you don't want cancer, or like
do this to not get cancer, and like exercise this
certain way. Meanwhile, like what we should really be talking
about is like I think the easiest way to change
something is actually to add things into your life, like
keep the plate the way it is, but like why
(25:45):
don't we work on adding some more greens or keep
your exercise the way it is? But like, yeah, exactly
instead of like all this restrictive mindset.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It's so and I think people have come around more
to that, and you see creators now more or so
on TikTok and Instagram talking about how you can't restrict
yourself because if you tell yourself, okay completely XL carbs,
you're gonna want the carbs ten times more and they're
gonna be calling your name. Where it's implement a little
(26:15):
bit of carbs into your diet, but then substitute it
with more protein totally, or add more protein into your diet.
Like there's a way of doing it where it's not okay,
let me completely restrict myself of everything, yep, because then
it's just not sustainable. None of these diets, none of
these they're not sustainable. You have to make sure you
find a regiment that works for you. Otherwise there's no
(26:38):
way you could say, let me eat salad for the
rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
And it's also like looking at overall health, it's a
lifelong journey. It's not like the month long, the thirty
days that you do of a salad cleanse. It's going
to impact your overall health, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
No, might make you just lose a couple of bounds temporarily.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, you've said healthcare is deeply personal and there's no
perfect way to heal. Was it important for you to
move away from the pressure of doing wellness correctly?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
M Yeah. I think, like I'm still trying to figure
it out because there are so many things that I
do in my life, especially I said, like I'm in
my party era, like that's not technically under wellness except
that it is because it's part of my life and
it's part of finding joy. And I think a lot.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Of people of your social wellness, it's.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Part of my social wellness. People don't talk about that.
That's extremely valid.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
So I think like just getting outside, getting fresh air,
going to meet your friends, grabbing a drink.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Getting a spreads.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yes, it's it is all a part of making you
happy and boosting your serotonin levels, like staying inside and
just waking up, going to work, working out, going home. Like, no,
you need to interact with people, you need to get out.
It's all a part of it.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
But yeah, so I think, like I go back and
forth because I know, like based on science, like alcohol
is just not good for us.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
We can tell by the way we feel when we exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I'm like, yeah, so this is actually destroying my body.
And at the same time, if I try to be
perfect in everything, I would go crazy. So it's an
everyday practice. I still am. Like something I actively struggle with, honestly,
is like trying to find the balance between doing everything
right and reducing my risk of reoccurrence and also like
(28:31):
having fun and being balanced.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
What was the hardest part about treatment that somebody wouldn't
understand unless they went through it.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
I think, honestly, it's similar with like a lot of
different cases of grief when you lose someone or you
lose yourself. I equate the cancer journey with like having
a lot of personal grief around, like losing who I was,
and like losing what my life was before I came
(29:01):
to terms with my own mortality. I think a lot
of people don't realize how hard it is after that occurrence.
And yes, active treatment was hard, and physically I really
didn't feel well, and that affects your mental health and
all of that. But honestly, for the months afterward, I
(29:22):
struggled a lot mentally, and I think people thought my
cancer journey was over, but I still held on to
a lot of that emotion and grief and anxiety in
ways that I wish people knew that we should still
be checking in on people long after they've lost someone,
or long after the services, or long after cancer journey ends,
(29:43):
like we still need support.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
You've said cancer change your relationship with time and gratitude.
In what ways did it change that for you?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I don't know, Like I think I've always been a
very grateful person. I think I need gratitude as a
tool now more than ever, honestly, because my life really
has gone back to normal. Like I think people think
you get cancer and then you're like, I just like
live every day differently now, and some people who have
(30:25):
had cancer say that, and I think I totally respect that.
I respect howeveryone moves on from it. I was like,
I want to have to go back to normal, and
it did. So now I stress out about myself tan
and if I should get hair extensions and am I
doing the right kind of brain partnerships and am I
growing my career in the right way? And did I
drink too much alcohol last weekend? And like that's what
(30:46):
my brain swirls are on with. So I always need
to come back to my gratitude practice, and honestly, like
haven't been in it in a while. I feel like
to root back down. Like whenever I'm really struggling, I
literally in my journal like I'm grateful for my mom,
I'm grateful for my dad, And it's so basic helps
every single time.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Do you ever get tired of people seeing you through
the lens of a survivor?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, all the time. I'm like that is like, of
course interesting because everyone wants to know what it's like
to think they're going to die and then come back,
and like, I get it super interesting.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I think everyone is interested in the story. But kind
of like what you were saying, how you were just
talking about how you wanted your life to go back
to normal. Yeah, I feel like most people do want that. Yeah,
they want their life to go back to normal, and
they don't want to be known as, oh, this is
the only thing that I went through. From that, do
(31:45):
you have a lot of knowledge and experience, one hundred percent,
But from that now you are living your life in
a different lens. Not yes, you are a survivor in
the back of your head. Of course, that is with
you every single day. But I think moving forward in
the story that you tell every day on this is
now your life is also what is even more inspiring,
(32:07):
Like don't let this journey hold you back, move on
and make those steps forward.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
That's so sweet. Yeah, absolutely, because.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I feel like, you know, just in general, it doesn't
have to even be you know, your cancer journey. Everybody
goes through something in their life. Nobody's life is perfect,
and I think that's been proven in many different situations.
I'll use my family as an example because I know
that this bothers my mother to no end. My family
went through legal stuff, and when people refer to my
(32:38):
mom as a criminal, that is something that really irritates
my mom. Yeah, because the situation was not it was
you know, it was done without her really knowing what
was going on, and it's you know, she didn't create
these criminal acts and they were not malicious or intentional,
(33:04):
and same with my father, but things just got out
of hand. And you know that things happen in life,
but them as people and their personalities and who they
are as a person and who they have grown in
the public eye and as TV personalities and just human beings.
(33:25):
I think everybody goes through something in their life and
then it's okay, now we're moving on. Now we don't
need to bring up things that were you know, from
so long.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, And it's like tough when you get labeled as
something that you don't resonate with or you don't align with.
And so I think, like for me in terms of
the cancer survivor stuff and like that being brought up
all the time, I know for myself, like I contain multitudes,
I am such I have so many different like people
(33:57):
within me, and I know that I'm so much outside
of that that if that is what is labeled for
marketing career and as a story to like lead into
people discovering who I am outside of that, that's okay
with me. And I also know that by sharing my story,
(34:17):
I'm saving a lot of lives and inspiring a lot
of young women, and that is important. As annoyed as
I could be, like I would like, please any other
job than this one.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
You've talked about redefining what the college experience looked like
for you after cancer. What do you wish people understood
more about non traditional paths through college and young adulthood.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I mean I was just like always in and out
of school. So I would say, if you form a
good relationship with your teachers, like you can create whatever
path you want. And granted, I think I was lucky
in that like a lot of the school systems I
was in were in like we're more creative or like,
I don't know. My teachers loved me. So when I
(35:02):
would go to them and be like, hey, I want
to do this assignment this way, normally it was approved
under certain guidelines, but there's no one path. I have
friends who took gap years and like traveled to India. Like,
there's lots of different ways to do life, and people
are like terrified of the fact that you can do
it in different ways and you don't have to follow
(35:23):
the path. But if you have the courage to do it,
what would.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
You say to another young woman who's scared to advocate
for herself medically.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
That's a real thing. I've been in so many doctor's offices,
especially like the dynamic of being a young woman and
having an older male figure in the room. There's just
like a natural power dynamic there. I would say, literally
call someone on the phone, like call your friend on
the phone in the bathroom and be like, Hi, I
need you to like help me out in this situation.
(35:57):
If you can't do it yourself, get someone in the
room who can with you. And because that's like you
can't just tell someone like be brave, Okay, Like we
could tell you that all day long. If you know
you need a little bit of assistance.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Get that. I couldn't agree more because I feel like
it is a little intimidating when you're walking into a
doctor's office, regardless of who's in the room with you.
It just makes you a little on edge, especially even
just I think being fully honest with the doctor, like
even if they when they ask you those list of
questions in the beginning, when is the last.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Time you had sex?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Or like like I remember, do you know? Do you how?
Which alcohol do you drink? Like I remember going to
my them them asking about oral sex. I was like,
what the my mom's in the room.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I know.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I mean, you know you're denied, I deny can really.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, your dentist knows, are you kidding? Yea, I sirir,
I don't know how. I don't know what goes on
in your mouth after the first time you do it,
but yeah, your dentist knows.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
We need to like fact check this.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I swear I'm not lying, but yeah, no, but I
do mortified. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I'm just kidding. I've never done that.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
But yeah, but yeah, I know. I couldn't agree more.
I think those like list of questions are just really
like being honest with the doctor. I think it's the
possibility of the what if, Okay, so you drink X
amount of days a week or babe, or you or
you're sexually okay, what's coming next? Then? Yeah? If I'm
(37:39):
honest with you.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Like are you going to give me a test? Or
like what's the deal here?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah? Do you feel like this experience changed how you
approached dating and relationships?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Oh? Yeah, I thought I would never find love after
having cancer. Like I was actually certain I would never
find love after No. No, come on, you got new
new booths.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
They were scarre feeling they.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Were and I didn't at the time, and I was like,
still my hair was like this. Sure, I was like,
and I had so much rama and baggage. I was like, yeah,
shop is closed, buy everyone file out the door here.
And then it took time. Yeah, life got better.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
It also took time for you to really feel confident
again in your own skin. Also, their aspect is huge.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, I was not actually wait, I was gonna say, like,
I was not like seeing people. I totally was like
kissing people in a wig. I think I was like
still dating a little bit through that time.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
I just why not.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, I think it was just like scared of like intimacy.
But I I don't know, I've always like loved boys,
love flirting's.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I guess there could just be a lot of pressure
to it.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
And if I was like, you're own guide, Tobarls probably
thinking about things that obviously nobody else was thinking about
when they were looking at you. Right, But if it's
dark in the war, I'm like, they know I have
a way gone, and it's like no, they actually don't know,
and it doesn't even matter. But then I was like,
I'm not going home with anyone because then then you're
gonna know.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, then the wag's coming up and the wag's coming off.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
So that was, oh my god, like best of times,
worst of times, the worst of times. But yeah, now
having a partner he like wasn't there during that time
I think that's what I was scared of too. It's
like I would start dating someone and like they they
wouldn't have been there, so they wouldn't like understand understand,
But he does because I've like explained it all and
(39:42):
he listens and asks questions.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
So you've built such a strong community online through honesty.
What's been the most meaningful message someone has sent you?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Oh my gosh, I get so many like tear jerker
messages all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Sure, I'm so emotional. I feel like I would just
right of.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
I get so many people who are like, I followed
you for a while. My mom was diagnosed with breast
cancer and like she was really struggling with this. I
show her your videos and like she feels so much
more hope and like she's asking her doctor about this,
and like tangible stories of women feeling relieved because they
(40:25):
found my page that seriously just like washes over me,
Like it's everything I wanted at the time, you know,
So being able to give that to people now it's
like everything I wanted.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
So what's next for you?
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Oh my gosh, so many things. I am really just
chronically online at the moment. Like I feel like my
so much has changed in terms of like partnerships in
the past even two years since moving to New York,
and I'm really enjoying being in the social media space.
I also have my own podcast called Paying three six five,
(41:03):
and we talk a lot about women's health, women empowerment.
So we're renewing for a second season of that and
hopefully building the brand into like something that can exist
as a bigger space outside of having these meaningful conversations,
but as resources for young women.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming on casual
O Chaos. This is awesome. Love it.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Thank you for having me
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