June 27, 2026 • 28 mins
Uranium mining on Navajo Nation land began in 1944 to supply the U.S. government with the radioactive ore used in nuclear bombs. About 30 million tons of uranium were extracted by the time operations on the reservation ceased in 1986. The environmental contamination from this effort left much of the Navajo Reservation uninhabitable and has had severe health consequences on residents to this day. The reservation is the largest by area in the United States, spanning Arizona, New Mexico and Utah, and about 170,000 of the approximately 400,000 enrolled members of the Navajo Nation reside within its borders. Many of the rest live in nearby communities whose drinking water has been poisoned by uranium contamination. Now several companies including Dick Cheney’s former mining operation are amongst those trying to revive uranium extraction in the area…Joining us today to discuss this issue is Anna Rondon. Anna is a Tribal member of the Navajo Nation and the Executive Director of the Gallup based New Mexico Social Justice Equity Institute.
In the second half of the show, we discuss the fallout of the toxicity and how it is manifested in the native populations. We discuss reparations and the lack of government intervention. We also discuss how listeners can offer support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, welcome back, ramses Jay, your host still in
this saddle. Anna Rondon is still with us, and we
are still discussing these uranium minds on Navajo lands around
the country and other indigenous lands around the country, and
the push to revive these minds and kind of the
fallout of the historic minds on these lands. For those
(00:23):
who don't know, Anna as a tribal member of the
Navajo Nation and the executive director of the Gallop based
New Mexico Social Justice Equity Institute. She was the co
principal investigator for the Navajo Department of Health for four
years in the ongoing Navajo Birth Cohort Study, part of
a federal study of fifty five thousand children nationwide which
(00:44):
has found heavy metals in newborn dne or Navajo babies systems,
and a whole host of other things that you have studied.
Obviously we've been talking. You're well established in terms of
advocating for your people, and I salute that we just
left off talking about birth effects in animals and in
(01:07):
people and on tribal lands where the infrastructure leaves a
bit to be desired when compared to like big cities Philadelphia, Chicago,
Los Angeles. Places like that, hospitals, resources, et cetera might
be tougher to get to. And on top of that,
the response seems to be nothing to see here from
(01:29):
the government. So, as a person who's worked in this
space for a long time, talk to us about that
government response or lack thereof over the different eras you know,
in which you've worked to kind of advocate for your people,
you know, when it comes to this mining operation.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yes, I do want to also mention that there are some.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Couple of uranium mines proposed for on our sacred mountain,
Mount Taylor and Grants, Mexico. So we're doing public comments
on that too as well. So Mount Taylors are one
of our sacred mountains. Other tribes to share that, but
(02:17):
these old uranium minds are being proposed around that sacred
mountain too as well. But I think that the fight
for justice it has to continue. But with the generations
not really having the strong institutional knowledge of this fight,
(02:42):
human rights is one of the key elements that we
have to keep striving for. I also think reparations for
people is in line because of the genocide that's still
happening today with our children being impacted by radioactive poisoning.
(03:05):
To me, when you have a President Trump listen to
our concerns and he says, well, Native Americans and can
eat yellow cake.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, so that's our federal government.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
So yellow cake, I'm very familiar with that. That's yeah, uranium. Yeah,
but so break that down why yellow cake? What is.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Well, we say yellow cake industry uses it too. But
President Trump didn't care that we want to stop uranium mining.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
He goes, well, they can eat yellow cake.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
That's something that the President said.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yes, that's awful. So it's to do a legal fight.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
The time is not now, it'll be I believe that
once we get enough really strong lawyers and the political
climate in Washington with Congress, I think we do have
a chance to get reparations for our people. We need
(04:25):
to create an ongoing trust fund for our people on
what they are experiencing. Thirty percent of our people don't
have running water. We still don't have in our Indian
healthcare service, we are just funded at least fifty percent.
(04:45):
This is genocide. They call it a termination, termination by appropriation.
So I just want to make this little comment here,
or does African American men, Oh, my god. It just
stayed with me. A few months ago, talking at the
(05:07):
data centers, he goes, We've been in this situation for
hundreds of years and you're still and you still won't
let us live.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
All we want to do is live. If we can't live,
you might as well shoot us. Now that's how I feel.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, because I want to keep us as honest as
I can. I went ahead and tried to grab that
quote from Donald Trump, and what it was was effectively,
uh and I think this is a writers, you know,
kind of borrowing from history, because Donald Trump's attitude was
(05:51):
let them eat cake, or let them eat yellow cake,
let the meat cake. Yeah, let them eat cake. Is
I believe it's a Marie Antoinette or I'm not sure
or but uh, that's a famous like French quote if
I'm not mistaken. And so there was a liberty taken there.
But Donald Trump's attitude was one of apathy, and that's
(06:12):
where the the the quote was conflated. I just don't
want anybody picking apart our conversation and saying, oh, that
the whole conversation is invalid because of that one point,
because that's typically what the opposition does. But Donald Trump's
position has absolutely been one of apathy insofar as you
know this uranium mining poisoning native populations is concerned. So
(06:35):
based on you know.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
My preliminters, I can find you the quote.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, if you if you find that for me, then
I'll say it. But what I found right now, I
just want to make sure that I get in front
of that just because people will they definitely will do that.
So so, uh, you know you mentioned you know this
this administration. Have you found any administration particularly helpful? Bill
(07:00):
Clinton really? Okay?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Bill Clinton did the uh. He created a commission to
study the uranium impacts. He was a huge advocate for US.
He even came out to shipwreck New Mexico. Yeah, so
he was one of the I would say, one of
(07:24):
the main champions for US.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And let's see what other.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Is it. Harvey Waxman, he was a congression Henry Waxman.
He wrote that's why journalism is so important. Because Henry
Waxman was flying from La to d C. He wrote,
he was reading La La Times article about Navajo uh
(07:56):
and uranium mines. There was a photo of an old
Novajo woman on the front page, and he was reading
it and when he got to DC, he started talking
to people. He said, we have to have a hearing.
So I believe it was two thousand and seven, two
thousand and eight that hearing happened. Out of that hearing,
(08:18):
the radiation exposure compensation APP conversation was revitalized and also
creating the novel Birthkohart study just because of the article.
So journalism is huge, life changing.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I would say, I.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Love that you mentioned reparations a bit earlier. How do
you feel that conversation might go with this current administration?
I know that recently enough there was a challenge to
(09:01):
a push for reparations for the descendants of slaves by
the government, by the federal government. If I'm not mistaken,
and I worry that the word reparations it attracts a
lot of opposition from people who have a zero empathy
(09:28):
and don't really understand the concept of accountability, but people
who are empowered by this government. Nonetheless, how do you
feel that that reparation's conversation? First off, I want to
be very clear, I recognize the importance of reparations, certainly
for people who have had you know, health issues, who've
(09:49):
developed cancers, who've had lost children, lost livestock and other property.
So I'm with you, But how do you feel that
that conversation goes a S and B. Is there let's
revisit the conversation. Is there something that people can do
if they want to support.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I think the reparations advocacy needs to continue in this administration.
Of course it's not going to happen, but they're all
going to be dying out, you know, And so we
got to plan and collectively plan. Even with the slavery component,
(10:33):
what was it, forty acres and a mule, that's still valid.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
It's almost like a treaty.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
So I think going back to the roots of the
original uh like for us to be treaties. But we
got to keep asking for reparations because at some point
in time we are going to be in power. It's
just a matter of time that they're dying off, and
(11:04):
we got to be prepared. We got to prepare our
generation now and have a blueprint, have a path because
we can't continue to have these billionaires, and the billionaires
are rip of indigenous lands and the blood of our people,
(11:25):
So we can't forget. I think generations today they don't
remember what our ancestors went through.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And they don't even appreciate. And if they don't know,
they need to find out.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
They don't have the institutional knowledge, the cultural knowledge.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And so if you don't have the roots of your.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Peoples in your heart, are in your mind, then you're
not going to be that grounded and you'll just fall
for anything in terms of you know, working for the man.
And so I really feel that we have a good
chance of reparations. It's getting the right people in power. Okay,
(12:23):
because we invest we can build it. We can't build
a society. It's just as we all know, putting the
Smiths into our communities.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So let's let's take another opportunity to let people know
where they can go and you know, sign up, get
more information, get more involved. So one more time, plug
the Facebook page and anything else.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Okay, you can go to doda.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
D o O d A Doda means no, and then
Deessa is the company d I A the deesca on Facebook.
And you can also go to our website to New
Mexico and AM Social Justice dot org and amsocial Justice
dot org and sign up for our newsletters as well,
(13:16):
so we have information on this.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Move to stop this uranium mining proposal.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Uh Anna Rondon is with us if you're just checking
in and we're talking about uranium mining on tribal lands,
Navajo lands in particular, and the effects that it has
had on the population and the push to revive these mines,
and of course and are representing the opposition to that push.
(13:49):
So you know, before we get out of here, I
want to make sure that we cover this fully. So
right now the mining is not taking place and they
want to revive it is.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yeah, that's on the New Mexico side as well around
Mount Taylor area in Grants, New Mexico. But the.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
There is an active uranium mine company now.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
In the western part of the Navajo Reservation near Flagstaff,
and so the Pinon Plane uranium mine is operated by
Energy Fuels, and Energy Fuels is already trucking uranium up
to up north. And it was called White Mesa Mill
(14:46):
uranium mill. It's the only uranium mill in the country.
And it sits next to a Ute White mesa Ute Reservation,
which the water is contaminated already, and what's downstream from
that Mesa from the mill is the navajoaper And so
(15:10):
our walk is being threatened and that's what's going on
now with energy fuels. There was that an accident about
two weeks ago with the uranium truck and so even
those trucks are not being measured it with the right instruments.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So that's going on now.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Uranium is being trucked and it's going through our reservation,
but we can't stop it.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I remember you saying that part of the tree was
that they could not transport it on the reservation. And
you mentioned the instruments too, and I remember.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Well, that's not the treaty doesn't say we have a
law called the gave. Yeah, the name fundament, the name
Natural Resources Protection app Yeah, that's the one.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Okay, that's what we call it. But yeah, and then
again that reminded me when you said they're not using
the right instruments. Again, it reminds me of that film
and kind of the breakdown of the you know, USSR,
where they were using the instruments to try to gauge
how much radiation was in the air and in the water,
and the instruments only went so high. So that's the
(16:28):
number that they reported, but the true amount was much
higher than the instruments could record, and so everyone was
getting sick. So yeah, it feels like our very own
Chernobyl disaster. The thing is is that it's not I
believe it's not well known because it's happening on tribal lands,
and the fact that this government historically speaking, has treated
(16:53):
native populations as disposable and still does to this day
apparently is entirely just it's devastating and heartbreaking. I'm glad
that you left some infrastructure in place so people can
get engaged. Before you go, though, talk to us about
the status of the abandoned uranium mines on the Navajo reservations.
(17:18):
Are those still wreaking havoc or what is the status
of them in general, just so that people kind of
know where they're jumping in here.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Well, there's been attempts in the past to do uranium
mind waste reclamation, but what does that mean? And so
in the eighties they did cover up a lot of
the mine ways with at that time was like eighteen
inch of top soil. But now looking at those sites,
(17:48):
even like Geez in the nineties we did site visits,
the erosion is already happening. The water is already created
cracks in the world and so it's being exposed also
with the wind, so over time they erode. There's really
no monitoring of it. Right now, there is movement to
(18:13):
move uranium ways a community called Lukachukai community.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So right now there's uranium mine.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
It's not really clean up, it's really containment, a limited
amount of containment and monitoring.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Cleanup is.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Misclassification, but it's really a limited amount of containment of
the uranium min noise. That's the proper term, because there's
no such thing as clean up.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
So it's if it's if it's once it's exposed, it's there.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Basically, Yes, it's a violation of it's a violation of creation.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
But of course the people from Europe, you know, they're Christians.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
They don't remember their indigenous they were indigenous people, but
I remember that. You know, they were Christianized for two
thousand years before us, and so they've been dehumanized and
then they come here and they don't know who they are.
And so that's why you know, their blood and the
(19:24):
bones of their people are not here as long as ours.
So our spiritual connection is so strong, our knowledge, it's powerful. Yeah,
and that's why we're still here. We're supposed to be exterminated.
Remember that we're not supposed to be here, but we're
(19:47):
here and we're going to take it back.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I love that. I think that, you know, I don't
know if I've ever encountered anyone from any tribe, any
native tribe, that has struck me as anything other than
just an amazing person. I've always been very kind to me.
And I guess deeper than that, the cultural elements I
(20:16):
think that bring they bring these like these feelings of
like joy and like they're really well founded. I think,
you know, I've been very fortunate to grow up but
kind of in the southwestern United States, where you know
a lot of you know, I guess cultural elements from
(20:40):
the tribal lands are still reflected here and there throughout society,
certainly not as much as they could be. But you know,
that always felt special, It felt pure, It felt dare
I say, magical, And to know that there are people
like you that are fighting to protect not just the
human beings, but you know, the culture and that are
(21:02):
espousing these philosophies of like protecting the land, protecting mother Earth,
that sort of thing. Fundamentally speaking, it is, in my estimation,
the way we all should be, and their ideas, such
as capitalism, that are diametrically opposed to the way that
people should be living. And you know, capitalism is indeed
(21:25):
the pursuit of money and the idea that by pursuing
rather the most money, that you know, people will end
up with the best lives. And then there are different
philosophies that say money is simply a tool, but you
should pursue happiness, you should pursue health, you should pursue comfort,
you should pursue time with your family, and that's what
(21:48):
people that get money really want. And so it's sort
of this backwards approach. And Q and I we have
these conversations quite a bit, but I've always kind of loved,
again the way that the way that many of the
native tribes have approached life in general and protecting life
(22:08):
and you know, recognizing they're simply stewards of the land,
not owners of it in the way that you know,
capitalists think, you know, own the land rented to people
that sort of.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah, yeah, and I just want to I just want
to interject and say that you know, not all natives
are that way.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Oh yeah, that's that's fair.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Now, all of us are in that now all of.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Us are protectors. You know, like I mentioned earlier, there's sellouts.
There's apples. Sure, we don't need apples at all, and
so there's that, there's that generalization of us as indigenous
people that were like that. But there's sellouts. There are
big time sellouts, and they're just capitalized and they're not
(22:53):
traditionally grounded. So a lot of them probably lived in
the cities and not connected. But you know, we're extremely
educated and sold on the capitalism culture.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
So I was like that too, you know, And I'm
sitting here.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Within my house and it's like, I don't even want
to have this, you know, I've been I'd rather know.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I was just thinking about my grandma. She lived in
a hogn.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I lived with her in the summers and she get
up dirt floor hogun and she have sheep start to
fire day in and day out, hurting sheep and making
navajo rugs. That was her life, simple, simple, and where
she lived, there's no trash. There's nothing even from my ancestors,
(23:48):
my great great grandmothers.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
They left the land it like it was yeah, without trash.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
And now I'm sitting here like, oh my god, it's
not I swear to live with less is more in
your mind and heart.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I've learned, and I wish I
don't want to get rid of all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, no, I get it. I understand, and I recognize
that I don't want to be unfair unkind because capitalism,
for what it has done, has brought a lot of
innovation into the world. It's this unfettered late stage capitalism
that should conceivably switch over to socialism. This is a
(24:31):
different conversation, of course, it's kind of where I personally
believe we should go and move back toward more of
the kind of living in harmony with the land and
pursuing the things that are really more consistent with our
human nature. We've been humans for a two hundred thousand years.
We've been working with money for I don't know, maybe
(24:51):
two percent of that time, and so the idea that
we would be simply be connected with the lands is
really more consistent with our nature and our evolution, and
I think that that's reflected in much of the culture,
at least that I see presented to me by tribal
communities and so forth. So one more time before we
(25:12):
let you go, and Rondon, do us a favor. Plug
the Facebook page again, plug the website again, and make
sure that people know how to get involved if they
want to make a difference when it comes to these
tribal lands and these companies attempting to reinvigorate uranium mining
on tribal lands.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yes, thank you, MC, i'mus.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
The webs the Facebook pages dosa d oo, d A
d I s A and that's on Facebook. And our
website is n M social justice dot org. Okay, acosocial
(26:03):
justice dot org.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Well yeah, go ahead and get involved, find out more information,
and then Anna Rondon, you do me a favor as
you continue to fight this fight, this good fight, keep
us in mind here, come back and you know, talk
to us if you need additional support, additional advocacy, if
there are other issues that need amplification. We're here for you,
(26:29):
Q and myself, we are your brothers. We want to
see we want to see this support be full circle.
And I certainly I'll never forget you know that your
people came out and supported my people. And I know
I've always known that your people historically have supported my people.
(26:50):
So far, be it for me to ever keep a
door closed if you're knocking on it. In fact, indeed,
I wouldn't even be here for one for Native people
because I have Native ancestry in my family tree and
so your your people have literally loved my people and
vice versa, and so I absolutely intend to continue in
that in that spirit. And you know, it was just
(27:14):
a joy to have this conversation with you. I wish
it was under better circumstances and we were celebrating something
rather than advocating for something. But again, I absolutely applaud
your efforts. And you know, I'm a radio guy, so
this is what I do. But you know, always feel
like you have a place to come back to, a
place to you know, share your stories and that you're
(27:36):
gonna have some brothers here that are going to be
willing to you know, turn turn the music off for
a second, turn the mics off for a second. Let
you have the floor and say you're people. So once again,
Anna Rondon, a tribal member of the Navajo Nation and
the executive director of the Gallop based New Mexico Social
Justice Equity Institute. Today's episode produced by Dan Poblish and
(28:02):
once again wanting to shout out the Akemel Odam peoples,
the peoples who this land that we broadcast from historically
speaking belongs to. When we acknowledge their stewardship of this
land and move in the spirit of brotherhood, that's going
to do it for us on today's episode. You can
(28:23):
find me on all social media platforms at Civic Cipher
that C I V I C C I P H
E R that's me and Q. You can find me
individually at Rams's Job. That's our A M S E
S J A Q. You can find at I M
Q ward on all platforms and be sure to hit
us up and send us your questions and comments and
anything like that that you want us to talk about.
(28:44):
We're happy to do it, especially if we feel like
it makes the world a better place.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
And that's going to do it for us today. So
until next time, y'all, peace,
All right, welcome back, ramses Jay, your host still in
this saddle. Anna Rondon is still with us, and we
are still discussing these uranium minds on Navajo lands around
the country and other indigenous lands around the country, and
the push to revive these minds and kind of the
fallout of the historic minds on these lands. For those
(00:23):
who don't know, Anna as a tribal member of the
Navajo Nation and the executive director of the Gallop based
New Mexico Social Justice Equity Institute. She was the co
principal investigator for the Navajo Department of Health for four
years in the ongoing Navajo Birth Cohort Study, part of
a federal study of fifty five thousand children nationwide which
(00:44):
has found heavy metals in newborn dne or Navajo babies systems,
and a whole host of other things that you have studied.
Obviously we've been talking. You're well established in terms of
advocating for your people, and I salute that we just
left off talking about birth effects in animals and in
(01:07):
people and on tribal lands where the infrastructure leaves a
bit to be desired when compared to like big cities Philadelphia, Chicago,
Los Angeles. Places like that, hospitals, resources, et cetera might
be tougher to get to. And on top of that,
the response seems to be nothing to see here from
(01:29):
the government. So, as a person who's worked in this
space for a long time, talk to us about that
government response or lack thereof over the different eras you know,
in which you've worked to kind of advocate for your people,
you know, when it comes to this mining operation.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yes, I do want to also mention that there are some.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Couple of uranium mines proposed for on our sacred mountain,
Mount Taylor and Grants, Mexico. So we're doing public comments
on that too as well. So Mount Taylors are one
of our sacred mountains. Other tribes to share that, but
(02:17):
these old uranium minds are being proposed around that sacred
mountain too as well. But I think that the fight
for justice it has to continue. But with the generations
not really having the strong institutional knowledge of this fight,
(02:42):
human rights is one of the key elements that we
have to keep striving for. I also think reparations for
people is in line because of the genocide that's still
happening today with our children being impacted by radioactive poisoning.
(03:05):
To me, when you have a President Trump listen to
our concerns and he says, well, Native Americans and can
eat yellow cake.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, so that's our federal government.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
So yellow cake, I'm very familiar with that. That's yeah, uranium. Yeah,
but so break that down why yellow cake? What is.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Well, we say yellow cake industry uses it too. But
President Trump didn't care that we want to stop uranium mining.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
He goes, well, they can eat yellow cake.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
That's something that the President said.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yes, that's awful. So it's to do a legal fight.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
The time is not now, it'll be I believe that
once we get enough really strong lawyers and the political
climate in Washington with Congress, I think we do have
a chance to get reparations for our people. We need
(04:25):
to create an ongoing trust fund for our people on
what they are experiencing. Thirty percent of our people don't
have running water. We still don't have in our Indian
healthcare service, we are just funded at least fifty percent.
(04:45):
This is genocide. They call it a termination, termination by appropriation.
So I just want to make this little comment here,
or does African American men, Oh, my god. It just
stayed with me. A few months ago, talking at the
(05:07):
data centers, he goes, We've been in this situation for
hundreds of years and you're still and you still won't
let us live.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
All we want to do is live. If we can't live,
you might as well shoot us. Now that's how I feel.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, because I want to keep us as honest as
I can. I went ahead and tried to grab that
quote from Donald Trump, and what it was was effectively,
uh and I think this is a writers, you know,
kind of borrowing from history, because Donald Trump's attitude was
(05:51):
let them eat cake, or let them eat yellow cake,
let the meat cake. Yeah, let them eat cake. Is
I believe it's a Marie Antoinette or I'm not sure
or but uh, that's a famous like French quote if
I'm not mistaken. And so there was a liberty taken there.
But Donald Trump's attitude was one of apathy, and that's
(06:12):
where the the the quote was conflated. I just don't
want anybody picking apart our conversation and saying, oh, that
the whole conversation is invalid because of that one point,
because that's typically what the opposition does. But Donald Trump's
position has absolutely been one of apathy insofar as you
know this uranium mining poisoning native populations is concerned. So
(06:35):
based on you know.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
My preliminters, I can find you the quote.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, if you if you find that for me, then
I'll say it. But what I found right now, I
just want to make sure that I get in front
of that just because people will they definitely will do that.
So so, uh, you know you mentioned you know this
this administration. Have you found any administration particularly helpful? Bill
(07:00):
Clinton really? Okay?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Bill Clinton did the uh. He created a commission to
study the uranium impacts. He was a huge advocate for US.
He even came out to shipwreck New Mexico. Yeah, so
he was one of the I would say, one of
(07:24):
the main champions for US.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And let's see what other.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Is it. Harvey Waxman, he was a congression Henry Waxman.
He wrote that's why journalism is so important. Because Henry
Waxman was flying from La to d C. He wrote,
he was reading La La Times article about Navajo uh
(07:56):
and uranium mines. There was a photo of an old
Novajo woman on the front page, and he was reading
it and when he got to DC, he started talking
to people. He said, we have to have a hearing.
So I believe it was two thousand and seven, two
thousand and eight that hearing happened. Out of that hearing,
(08:18):
the radiation exposure compensation APP conversation was revitalized and also
creating the novel Birthkohart study just because of the article.
So journalism is huge, life changing.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I would say, I.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Love that you mentioned reparations a bit earlier. How do
you feel that conversation might go with this current administration?
I know that recently enough there was a challenge to
(09:01):
a push for reparations for the descendants of slaves by
the government, by the federal government. If I'm not mistaken,
and I worry that the word reparations it attracts a
lot of opposition from people who have a zero empathy
(09:28):
and don't really understand the concept of accountability, but people
who are empowered by this government. Nonetheless, how do you
feel that that reparation's conversation? First off, I want to
be very clear, I recognize the importance of reparations, certainly
for people who have had you know, health issues, who've
(09:49):
developed cancers, who've had lost children, lost livestock and other property.
So I'm with you, But how do you feel that
that conversation goes a S and B. Is there let's
revisit the conversation. Is there something that people can do
if they want to support.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I think the reparations advocacy needs to continue in this administration.
Of course it's not going to happen, but they're all
going to be dying out, you know, And so we
got to plan and collectively plan. Even with the slavery component,
(10:33):
what was it, forty acres and a mule, that's still valid.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
It's almost like a treaty.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
So I think going back to the roots of the
original uh like for us to be treaties. But we
got to keep asking for reparations because at some point
in time we are going to be in power. It's
just a matter of time that they're dying off, and
(11:04):
we got to be prepared. We got to prepare our
generation now and have a blueprint, have a path because
we can't continue to have these billionaires, and the billionaires
are rip of indigenous lands and the blood of our people,
(11:25):
So we can't forget. I think generations today they don't
remember what our ancestors went through.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And they don't even appreciate. And if they don't know,
they need to find out.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
They don't have the institutional knowledge, the cultural knowledge.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And so if you don't have the roots of your.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Peoples in your heart, are in your mind, then you're
not going to be that grounded and you'll just fall
for anything in terms of you know, working for the man.
And so I really feel that we have a good
chance of reparations. It's getting the right people in power. Okay,
(12:23):
because we invest we can build it. We can't build
a society. It's just as we all know, putting the
Smiths into our communities.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So let's let's take another opportunity to let people know
where they can go and you know, sign up, get
more information, get more involved. So one more time, plug
the Facebook page and anything else.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Okay, you can go to doda.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
D o O d A Doda means no, and then
Deessa is the company d I A the deesca on Facebook.
And you can also go to our website to New
Mexico and AM Social Justice dot org and amsocial Justice
dot org and sign up for our newsletters as well,
(13:16):
so we have information on this.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Move to stop this uranium mining proposal.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Uh Anna Rondon is with us if you're just checking
in and we're talking about uranium mining on tribal lands,
Navajo lands in particular, and the effects that it has
had on the population and the push to revive these mines,
and of course and are representing the opposition to that push.
(13:49):
So you know, before we get out of here, I
want to make sure that we cover this fully. So
right now the mining is not taking place and they
want to revive it is.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yeah, that's on the New Mexico side as well around
Mount Taylor area in Grants, New Mexico. But the.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
There is an active uranium mine company now.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
In the western part of the Navajo Reservation near Flagstaff,
and so the Pinon Plane uranium mine is operated by
Energy Fuels, and Energy Fuels is already trucking uranium up
to up north. And it was called White Mesa Mill
(14:46):
uranium mill. It's the only uranium mill in the country.
And it sits next to a Ute White mesa Ute Reservation,
which the water is contaminated already, and what's downstream from
that Mesa from the mill is the navajoaper And so
(15:10):
our walk is being threatened and that's what's going on
now with energy fuels. There was that an accident about
two weeks ago with the uranium truck and so even
those trucks are not being measured it with the right instruments.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So that's going on now.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Uranium is being trucked and it's going through our reservation,
but we can't stop it.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I remember you saying that part of the tree was
that they could not transport it on the reservation. And
you mentioned the instruments too, and I remember.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Well, that's not the treaty doesn't say we have a
law called the gave. Yeah, the name fundament, the name
Natural Resources Protection app Yeah, that's the one.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Okay, that's what we call it. But yeah, and then
again that reminded me when you said they're not using
the right instruments. Again, it reminds me of that film
and kind of the breakdown of the you know, USSR,
where they were using the instruments to try to gauge
how much radiation was in the air and in the water,
and the instruments only went so high. So that's the
(16:28):
number that they reported, but the true amount was much
higher than the instruments could record, and so everyone was
getting sick. So yeah, it feels like our very own
Chernobyl disaster. The thing is is that it's not I
believe it's not well known because it's happening on tribal lands,
and the fact that this government historically speaking, has treated
(16:53):
native populations as disposable and still does to this day
apparently is entirely just it's devastating and heartbreaking. I'm glad
that you left some infrastructure in place so people can
get engaged. Before you go, though, talk to us about
the status of the abandoned uranium mines on the Navajo reservations.
(17:18):
Are those still wreaking havoc or what is the status
of them in general, just so that people kind of
know where they're jumping in here.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Well, there's been attempts in the past to do uranium
mind waste reclamation, but what does that mean? And so
in the eighties they did cover up a lot of
the mine ways with at that time was like eighteen
inch of top soil. But now looking at those sites,
(17:48):
even like Geez in the nineties we did site visits,
the erosion is already happening. The water is already created
cracks in the world and so it's being exposed also
with the wind, so over time they erode. There's really
no monitoring of it. Right now, there is movement to
(18:13):
move uranium ways a community called Lukachukai community.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So right now there's uranium mine.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
It's not really clean up, it's really containment, a limited
amount of containment and monitoring.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Cleanup is.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Misclassification, but it's really a limited amount of containment of
the uranium min noise. That's the proper term, because there's
no such thing as clean up.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
So it's if it's if it's once it's exposed, it's there.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Basically, Yes, it's a violation of it's a violation of creation.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
But of course the people from Europe, you know, they're Christians.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
They don't remember their indigenous they were indigenous people, but
I remember that. You know, they were Christianized for two
thousand years before us, and so they've been dehumanized and
then they come here and they don't know who they are.
And so that's why you know, their blood and the
(19:24):
bones of their people are not here as long as ours.
So our spiritual connection is so strong, our knowledge, it's powerful. Yeah,
and that's why we're still here. We're supposed to be exterminated.
Remember that we're not supposed to be here, but we're
(19:47):
here and we're going to take it back.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I love that. I think that, you know, I don't
know if I've ever encountered anyone from any tribe, any
native tribe, that has struck me as anything other than
just an amazing person. I've always been very kind to me.
And I guess deeper than that, the cultural elements I
(20:16):
think that bring they bring these like these feelings of
like joy and like they're really well founded. I think,
you know, I've been very fortunate to grow up but
kind of in the southwestern United States, where you know
a lot of you know, I guess cultural elements from
(20:40):
the tribal lands are still reflected here and there throughout society,
certainly not as much as they could be. But you know,
that always felt special, It felt pure, It felt dare
I say, magical, And to know that there are people
like you that are fighting to protect not just the
human beings, but you know, the culture and that are
(21:02):
espousing these philosophies of like protecting the land, protecting mother Earth,
that sort of thing. Fundamentally speaking, it is, in my estimation,
the way we all should be, and their ideas, such
as capitalism, that are diametrically opposed to the way that
people should be living. And you know, capitalism is indeed
(21:25):
the pursuit of money and the idea that by pursuing
rather the most money, that you know, people will end
up with the best lives. And then there are different
philosophies that say money is simply a tool, but you
should pursue happiness, you should pursue health, you should pursue comfort,
you should pursue time with your family, and that's what
(21:48):
people that get money really want. And so it's sort
of this backwards approach. And Q and I we have
these conversations quite a bit, but I've always kind of loved,
again the way that the way that many of the
native tribes have approached life in general and protecting life
(22:08):
and you know, recognizing they're simply stewards of the land,
not owners of it in the way that you know,
capitalists think, you know, own the land rented to people
that sort of.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah, yeah, and I just want to I just want
to interject and say that you know, not all natives
are that way.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Oh yeah, that's that's fair.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Now, all of us are in that now all of.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Us are protectors. You know, like I mentioned earlier, there's sellouts.
There's apples. Sure, we don't need apples at all, and
so there's that, there's that generalization of us as indigenous
people that were like that. But there's sellouts. There are
big time sellouts, and they're just capitalized and they're not
(22:53):
traditionally grounded. So a lot of them probably lived in
the cities and not connected. But you know, we're extremely
educated and sold on the capitalism culture.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
So I was like that too, you know, And I'm
sitting here.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Within my house and it's like, I don't even want
to have this, you know, I've been I'd rather know.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I was just thinking about my grandma. She lived in
a hogn.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I lived with her in the summers and she get
up dirt floor hogun and she have sheep start to
fire day in and day out, hurting sheep and making
navajo rugs. That was her life, simple, simple, and where
she lived, there's no trash. There's nothing even from my ancestors,
(23:48):
my great great grandmothers.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
They left the land it like it was yeah, without trash.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
And now I'm sitting here like, oh my god, it's
not I swear to live with less is more in
your mind and heart.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I've learned, and I wish I
don't want to get rid of all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, no, I get it. I understand, and I recognize
that I don't want to be unfair unkind because capitalism,
for what it has done, has brought a lot of
innovation into the world. It's this unfettered late stage capitalism
that should conceivably switch over to socialism. This is a
(24:31):
different conversation, of course, it's kind of where I personally
believe we should go and move back toward more of
the kind of living in harmony with the land and
pursuing the things that are really more consistent with our
human nature. We've been humans for a two hundred thousand years.
We've been working with money for I don't know, maybe
(24:51):
two percent of that time, and so the idea that
we would be simply be connected with the lands is
really more consistent with our nature and our evolution, and
I think that that's reflected in much of the culture,
at least that I see presented to me by tribal
communities and so forth. So one more time before we
(25:12):
let you go, and Rondon, do us a favor. Plug
the Facebook page again, plug the website again, and make
sure that people know how to get involved if they
want to make a difference when it comes to these
tribal lands and these companies attempting to reinvigorate uranium mining
on tribal lands.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yes, thank you, MC, i'mus.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
The webs the Facebook pages dosa d oo, d A
d I s A and that's on Facebook. And our
website is n M social justice dot org. Okay, acosocial
(26:03):
justice dot org.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Well yeah, go ahead and get involved, find out more information,
and then Anna Rondon, you do me a favor as
you continue to fight this fight, this good fight, keep
us in mind here, come back and you know, talk
to us if you need additional support, additional advocacy, if
there are other issues that need amplification. We're here for you,
(26:29):
Q and myself, we are your brothers. We want to
see we want to see this support be full circle.
And I certainly I'll never forget you know that your
people came out and supported my people. And I know
I've always known that your people historically have supported my people.
(26:50):
So far, be it for me to ever keep a
door closed if you're knocking on it. In fact, indeed,
I wouldn't even be here for one for Native people
because I have Native ancestry in my family tree and
so your your people have literally loved my people and
vice versa, and so I absolutely intend to continue in
that in that spirit. And you know, it was just
(27:14):
a joy to have this conversation with you. I wish
it was under better circumstances and we were celebrating something
rather than advocating for something. But again, I absolutely applaud
your efforts. And you know, I'm a radio guy, so
this is what I do. But you know, always feel
like you have a place to come back to, a
place to you know, share your stories and that you're
(27:36):
gonna have some brothers here that are going to be
willing to you know, turn turn the music off for
a second, turn the mics off for a second. Let
you have the floor and say you're people. So once again,
Anna Rondon, a tribal member of the Navajo Nation and
the executive director of the Gallop based New Mexico Social
Justice Equity Institute. Today's episode produced by Dan Poblish and
(28:02):
once again wanting to shout out the Akemel Odam peoples,
the peoples who this land that we broadcast from historically
speaking belongs to. When we acknowledge their stewardship of this
land and move in the spirit of brotherhood, that's going
to do it for us on today's episode. You can
(28:23):
find me on all social media platforms at Civic Cipher
that C I V I C C I P H
E R that's me and Q. You can find me
individually at Rams's Job. That's our A M S E
S J A Q. You can find at I M
Q ward on all platforms and be sure to hit
us up and send us your questions and comments and
anything like that that you want us to talk about.
(28:44):
We're happy to do it, especially if we feel like
it makes the world a better place.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
And that's going to do it for us today. So
until next time, y'all, peace,
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