Bobby Nichols is Tempe, Arizona's first Democratic Socialist City Councilmember and one of a slate of candidates endorsed by Bernie Sanders. Bobby is the former Phoenix Democratic Socialist of America's chapter chair and current member. He is the founder of Arizona Works Together, a pro-union political action committee operating at the state level. Additionally, Bobby Nichols works for the Office of the Arizona Attorney General as a state attorney representing Arizona's Departments of Child Safety and Economic Security in Superior and Administrative Court cases involving the abuse, neglect, and exploitation of minor children and vulnerable adults. We speak with Bobby Nichols for the second half of the show.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Bobby Nichols is Tempe, Arizona's first Democratic Socialist city council
member and one of a slate of candidates endorsed by
Bernie Sanders. Bobby is the former Phoenix Democratic Socialist of
America's Chapter chair and current member. He is the founder
of the Arizona Works Together, a pro union political action
committee operating at the state level. Additionally, Bobby Nichols works
(00:22):
for the Office of the Arizona Attorney General as a
state attorney, representing Arizona's Departments of Child Safety and Economic
Security in superior and administrative court cases involving the abuse, neglect,
and exploitation of minor children and vulnerable adults. And he's
back in the studio with us today, So welcome back, Bobby.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Congratulation. I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, man, And you know, for the folks that don't
know talk about your recent win and everything that went
into that.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah. So, I just got elected to Tempee City Council,
like you said, first Democratic Socialist elected to city council
and Tempe, and I think in Maricopa County, actually there's
one Democratic Socialist in Tucson City Council. Her name is
Miranda Schubert. She's great, definitely an inspiring force in local
Arizona politics. But I mean, I'd like to take personal
(01:13):
credit for the win, but it is a team effort.
Over three hundred people showed up to knockdors for us,
more than a thousand people donated. We were able to
raise like sixty five thousand dollars from small dollar donations.
Didn't take a cent from corporate developers, land use attorneys,
monopoly utilities, or any of the big moneyed interests that
typically run Arizona's political scene. And I'm really really grateful
(01:37):
for all the incredible support we've received. It's humbling, it's encouraging,
it's inspiring. Gives me a lot of hope for the future.
And not just in Arizona, but around the country. As
you know, there's a lot of democratic socialists making big waves,
getting big wins, and yeah, it feels great.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I want to talk about that first while we're here
in Timpi. There is a maybe, well I don't know
this to be certain, maybe you know a little bit better,
but I'm sure that our listeners around the country might
be interested. There might be a more progressive element in
(02:17):
Tempe that might have led to your election to city council.
There is that true. Yeah, so there is a just
describe for folks that have never been so.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Tempe is a college town. ASU has been in Tempe
since before Tempei was even officially established. Being Arizona City University,
it's a massive force, so a lot of students come in.
We have a lot of highly educated people who are
doing incredible work around building businesses in Arizona, around developing
our state for working people. Just across the board. They
(02:53):
like to say number one in innovation. That doesn't necessarily
mean anything, but they are a big four in keeping
the city young and plugged in, and that leads to
a lot of progressive action in the political scenes. So
we are actually I was mentioned on a I don't
(03:15):
remember which news station did it, but somebody referred to
Tempe as the People's Republic of Tempe, which I think
is great, but you know, ultimately it did have a
lot of the same issues at other cities in Arizona
face where there's corporate capture. Our politicians are oftentimes responding
more to the desires of landlords and developers, and they
are to tenants and people who want to get into
(03:36):
home ownership, and it just led to a situation that
was out of control in terms of the actual liveability
and affordability of the city. Our housing costs were about
forty percent higher than the national average, so if you
wanted to buy a home in Tempe, you'd be spending
some two hundred thousand dollars more than the average home
cost around the country. Rents were about two hundred to
(04:00):
five hundred dollars more per month than around the rest
of the country on average, of course, but it made
it more difficult for students to build lives there, for
young people to develop families there, and so our schools
have seen massive drop offs enrollments, which has led to
big budget cuts that come from the state level make
(04:20):
it much more difficult for our schools to stay open.
A bunch of them recently had to close, which is
hugely problematic for a city that is catering to young
people through the university and is not able to maintain
or keep people in the city who are then graduating
with degrees and trying to go on to be really
valuable productive members of society, but are having to leave
(04:41):
because they just can't afford to live in Tempe.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Well fantastic, is there? You know, we haven't talked about
the other victories Democratic Socialist victories in the country yet,
so I'm skipping a head just a bit. But is
there maybe some commonality or maybe there's no commonality of
the electorate the base of people that are electing these
Democratic Socialists around the country. Is there any pattern that
(05:08):
we might recognize? And there's no wrong answer here, of course,
I'm not looking for anything, which just helps to know
who are electing the Democratic Socialists around the country.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I actually would say based on what we've seen, So
let's think about it. Not just DSA endorsed, but Bernie
Sanders endorsed ARM I'm Downey indors people who are fighting
for the affordability agenda, for lack of a better term,
trying to make it easier for people to own homes
or pay their rents, or get to work, or whatever
the case may be. I actually feel like the base
(05:43):
is significantly broader than the then most news outlets have
been trying to make it seem post the New York victories.
And what makes me say that is how successful Graham
Platner in Maine has been on a Senate level. That's
a statewide race in a city or in a state
that has had a Republican in the Senate for a
(06:06):
significant amount of time now. But this progressive who has
showed up as a working person who wants to make
it easier for working people to build families, live lives,
go on vacation, enjoy the time that they have in
the community, has been incredibly successful, absolutely dominated the corporate
(06:27):
candidate who came out late, of course, but also received
a ton of backing from people like Chuck Schumer and
Hakeem Jefferies who were more on the establishment, corporate funded
side of the Democratic Party. Of course, I think the big,
the ones that are most visible are going to be
the New York's of the world. They're going to be
(06:47):
the Darieliza of Vila, Chevalier, Clare Valdez, brad Lander to
a certain extent as well. It's all a repudiation of
the corporate capture politics usually in politics as usual. But
I think while in some of those cases you have,
you know, another a young or a highly educated electorate,
(07:09):
you also have other places where just working class people
are wanting to see that their representators are going to
show up and fight for their lives to be better
instead of making excuses about why nothing can ever be done. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I like that because there's still this air of boogeyman
associated with Democratic socialists on the right right, and it
would be too easy for especially those that oppose you,
to dismiss your victory as simply due to the fact
(07:44):
that it is in Timpe, and timp from what I understand,
is more diverse than just college students. A lot of
the college students don't live in Timpe, of course, they
can't afford a home in Timpe.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
And the ones who do live there often don't vote sure.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Sure, and I would imagine that a lot of the
people that work at the universities, as you mentioned, these
are educated people. These are people that aren't given to
simply the optics that the right wing has. A right
wing media, I should say, has attempted to chronicle, and
(08:22):
so a lot of the ideas I think that are
espoused by democratic socialists. I think they find fertile soil
in a place like that, but also, as you mentioned,
they find fertile soil in places like Maine, of course,
New York and other places around the country. But I
think there's something else here. Too, which is that Q
(08:45):
and I we had this conversation the other day and
speaking about Republicans, the Republicans at present control all three
branches of government because of Project twenty twenty five and
the ripple effects of that. They are loyalists, not even
just Republicans, but Trump loyalists are installed at every single facet, nook,
(09:12):
cranny of the federal government to execute on his will
and his will alone. We've certainly seen that here because
we broadcast so SCC Federal Communications Commission. And yet and
still the elected Republicans are concerned about voter fraud. In fact,
(09:36):
it's one of the primary fights that they are fighting
right now. And they're pushing back against voter fraud when
they've won all the elections, so they're creating like it
doesn't make any sense. If there was voter fraud, you
wouldn't have won the elections. In addition to that, Donald
Trump has led us into a war that nobody asked for.
(09:57):
Donald Trump has upset the global balance of pretty much
everything everything that we hold dinner in this country, And
all the promises that Donald Trump made on the campaign trail,
he's failed to deliver on the meaningful ones at minimum,
I would argue even more than that. And so it's
(10:19):
not just progressive minded people in college towns. Indeed, I
would imagine there's a not insignificant amount of what would
traditionally be Republican voters that are looking at this administration saying, Okay,
we've given Republicans all of the keys to the government
to see what they'll do. They have no excuse, and
(10:39):
life is not better, and so a person like you
comes along and says, hey, this could work, it has worked,
and this is what we want to do. And I
think there's a there's a Venn diagram, there's a cross
section of things that I think Republicans and Democrats both
want sincerely for the country. It's not rooted and hatred
or divisiveness, right that I think Democratic socialists are kind
(11:03):
of propping up so to speak to that. Maybe I
see that.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Maybe it's that reminds me of something that the current
Senate Democrat candidate for Texas, James tell Erico, has said.
And I don't necessarily fully agree with everything he's put out,
but what I do like is how he says this
is less a battle of left versus right than top
versus bottom Yeah, sure, And I think it's really important
(11:27):
to remember that in a capitalist country, we have two
capitalist parties, and while we are seeing incredible success by
socialist organizers within the more left wing of those capitalist parties,
it is important to remember that the pushback they're going
to see it's not a fluke. It is a feature
(11:48):
of the system and how we're seeing. There's now a
moderate manifesto that a couple of the more centrist Democratic
Congress people put out together, which is hilarious. It's intended
to push back against the Democratic socialists by showing that,
but it's pandering to the wealthy people who are funding
(12:11):
their campaigns. And what I would say about about Trump,
I'm going to back this up a little bit. So
in my campaign and in a lot of the campaigns
that we've seen, we've had incredible conversations with Republicans. There
are a ton of people who are just feeling the
burden of a world that does not work for them,
(12:31):
that's too expenses for them, where people don't seem to
care about whether they have the money to own a home,
or raise a family or do any of that, and
their government certainly is not making any effort to make
things better, and Democrats have spent a long time, corporate
Democrats especially, I should say, have spent a really long
time telling people to stop hoping for change. Despite what
(12:53):
the campaign promises of twenty eight and twenty twelve were
hope and change, we're fighting for a better future. As
soon as those things began, or that group sort of
took power, it immediately became well, we're going to do incrementalism.
We're going to try and make little changes, and by
not taking big enough steps, they gave room to the
right to come in and bring the fascism that we're
(13:15):
seeing today. The neoliberal bent of the Democratic Party establishment
has paved the way for the fascism of Donald Trump,
which is something that constantly requires crisis, so fascism cannot exist.
And this goes to what you were saying about the
(13:36):
voter restrictions that the Republicans are still fighting for even
though they keep winning elections. One of the core tenants
of fascism is our enemy is weak but also strong.
We are all powerful but also in crisis, and you
have to be able to square that circle with your
base in order to continue to push these policies that
(13:57):
don't help anyone because ultimately what fascism is a reaction
of the ruling class to keep themselves in power when
they notice that a social or political movement is rising
to threaten them. And in this moment, democratic socialism is
rising to threaten the ruling class in America, which is
why we're seeing fascism pushback so aggressively, and why we're
(14:17):
seeing the ruling class pushback so aggressively. So Donald Trump,
the Republicans, and even the corporate Democrats who are feeding
into the same machine, who are taking money from APAC
and the same donors who have propped up Donald Trump
and his fascism, are going to do everything they can
to belittle the success of democratic socialists, to make it
seem like we are only succeeding in strong blue areas,
(14:41):
and to make it feel like where we do succeed
it was a fluke. It's not something that's replicable. We
shouldn't try to do it again. And in fact, we're
harming the democratic process by running and winning these seats,
which is ironic because for so long the refrain of
the corporate establishment Democrats has been well, don't create another party,
(15:03):
just run within the Democratic Party and push the party
to the left. But now that people are pushing the
party to the left, they're having this very visceral reaction,
which I think speaks to what they ultimately wanted, which
was progressives and people who are fighting for a better
world to shut up and go away, which we're just
not going to do. I love that.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I'm going to add this to what it is you
were saying. This is Stephen A. Smith's voice here.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
If the Democratic Party becomes the likes of Zoramumdani, who,
by the way, I like, if the Democratic Party becomes him,
you have no chance. You have no chance on a
nashvial basis of terms of the presidency and Senate seats,
seats in.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
The House, you have no chance.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
You might have a democratic socialist sprinkled hand here, but
that ain't what America is.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
America is about capitalism.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
America's about dollars and says, you know what, it's not
about free stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Somebody gotta say it's uncle. See Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
So we played that audio on air, and your words
rang in my mind as I was having a conversation
with you, and in effect what I said was capitalism
(16:19):
should not be and was as far as I understand
not intended to be the end game for any country,
certainly not this one. Capitalism is a way for a
country to innovate, to grow, to develop economically on the
world stage, to get power to build its military. It's muscles, right,
(16:40):
and once capitalism has served its purpose for a country,
it can now shift towards socialism. This is something that
I learned from you. It is brilliant way of explaining it.
And I think that prior to that conversation, I like
many people thought of capitalism as just kind of what
(17:02):
it is. I mean, who would think to change it?
You don't, really, it's so big, and it's so ingrained
and was here before I got here, and we'll be
here after I'm gone. What it's like changing the sky
or changing the clouds. It's just too big for me.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
It turns out that's not true, right, And you and
I we had a conversation about it. Might have been
Finland or one of those places where they do have
a capitalist foundation. These are places that innovate. They they
believe in businesses, and you know, businesses have their role
in society. But it's not just business. It's not just
(17:37):
chasing a dollar. Indeed, the metrics of those society and
the health the barometer of those societies, not measured in
dollars and cents like we do here, because if you
were to try to measure the health of this society
and dollars and cents, you would only get a very
small snapshot of a few people and how well they're doing.
And that's because we pay attention to S and P.
Five hundred, the Dow and the Wall Street and all
(17:58):
that sort of stuff. These other countries they have these
their capitalist frameworks, but they have strong, incredibly robust socialist programs, right,
and so this push, I believe it is time for
this push because what we're dealing with, and I said
this on the show as well, is late stage capitalist.
(18:23):
What we're dealing with is unfettered capitalism. We're not just
dealing with capitalism. We're not an emerging country, we're not
third world and trying to get our footing on the stage.
So when a person like Stephen A. Smith screams into
this microphone saying that there is no future for the
Democratic Party when it comes to democratic socialists, it's effectively
(18:45):
what he's trying to say, how do you respond to that?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Well, first, I would point out that Stephen A's record
for picking winners, at least in terms of the NBA finals, Like,
I don't know how much we can take that as
as the arbiter of what's going to come down the pipe,
But I think his reaction is the natural reaction of
(19:07):
the outgoing capitalist ruling class to a world that is
leaving the system that benefited them so greatly behind. And
I think that's a human reaction. So I don't even
have I have no ill will towards anybody who looks
at the future that doesn't look like what we have
today and feels afraid. I think that's a very human reaction.
(19:29):
And I think Grahamcy, he's a communist from Italy during
the war, during the World War two and Mussolini's domination
and fascist domination of Italy, said this very effectively that
this is the time the old world is dying and
the new world is struggling to be born. So this
is the time of monsters. And what that means is
(19:52):
the world that existed before is afraid. It's in a corner.
It's trying to grasp onto whatever straw as it can
to maintain its authority and to maintain the benefits for
the people who have propped it up for so long
and the rest of us. The new world that benefits
everyone beyond just affordability, but where workers have control of
(20:14):
their lives. When we've expanded democracy from just the ballot
box to the workplace, to the home, to wherever we
have the opportunity to democratize human existence, we are also
becoming fighters. We're going to have to continue fighting for
this world because they're not going to just give it
to us. We have to go and take it.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I love it. One of the things that, to be fair,
I've never given Donald Trump too much in the way
of credit, but one of the things that I was
forced to give Donald Trump credit for is being effective
at delivering at least the optics that his base wanted
to see. Yeah, he got in there, his people installed,
(20:59):
and he got to work and DEI and black women
three hundred thousand black women lost their j like it
was crazy. And the immigration, sweet people getting shot in
the street, all kinds of stuff, right, And he showed
us what was possible. You mentioned democrats, you know in
twentsand and eight and twenty twelve. That's Obama, Yeah, you know,
(21:19):
and then we played the increment game. And I've always
kind of provided a lot of cover for Democrats and
for the country. This country is kind of a foul
country from the perspective of my people, right, but you know,
I'm kind of the optimist between me and Q, I think,
and so I've always kind of suggested to our listeners, Hey,
(21:40):
you know what, progress is very slow on the scale
of a country, on the timeline of a country.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But in the lifetime.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
You know, you might not see all that much, but
you know, relative to a country, you know you could.
This country has done some growing it's gone through some
growing pains in the last two hundred and fifty years. Well,
where we are might indicate where we could go when
it comes to Democrats and Republicans. That incremental stuff is
(22:10):
something that James Baldman spoke to. He asked the appointed question,
how much time does it take? Because it's taken my time,
it's taken my grandfather's time, it's taken my great grandfather's time.
Q could quote that a lot better than I could.
But his point is is that these things you could
change them right now if you so chose. Donald Trump
proved it, and you know who else proved it. Zoron,
Mom Donne, absolutely, and so I love the fact that
(22:35):
these people are not only getting elected, but they're delivering
on their promises. And I think that with Zoron Mom Donnie,
and I'll turn it over to you to jump in
and Jerry thoughts. But another thing you said on a
recent episode was that when Bernie was running both times, Bernie,
in my estimation, really had the support of the people.
(22:58):
He wasn't bought and paid for by anybody. People supported
Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton and the Democratic establishment did
their thing and they got bernieib out of there. And
then of course the second time that happened with him
when he was running against Joe Biden. It's hard to
forgive Democrats for that. However, Q mentioned that Bernie Sanders
(23:24):
was older. He looked older, and so for people that
weren't in love with Bernie Sanders, he looked frail relative
to the other candidates that were running. Zoron, Mam Donnie
did not look frail. He brought the panache, he brought
the charisma, and obviously the ideas you're another person that
(23:50):
you're like my personals are on man, Donna, and you know,
the ideas that Bernie was able to kind of like
the seeds, he was able to kind of plant and
water here and there in uh in speaking and you know,
being a surrogate speaker for different politicians over the years,
(24:12):
you know, watering those and having them take root. I
think that those ideas have turned into a population that
is ready to lean into this this era of this country.
That was a long roundabout way of me bringing Bernie
Sanders into the conversation. But I wanted you to speak
(24:33):
to how effective democratic democratic socialists have been, with Zoram
Mamdani obviously being one that you can speak to right
now because a lot of you guys are just getting
started here. But also I wanted you to talk about
how important it was to get that endorsement, like what
that felt like for you from Bernie himself.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I'll start with that, because it was absolutely serious. It was.
It was that way for me too. I was so
proud of you, and I knew that I had submitted
the application correctly, I knew they'd received it. I had
no idea that it was going to happen until three
days before it happened. Oh wow, And so we got
that update. We were not allowed to tell anybody until
(25:10):
the day they actually posted about it, and so it
was all I could do to bite my tongue for
those three days. But honestly, what you mentioned about a
lot of people now being primed for change because of
what Bernie Sanders did really played out in our campaign
because what we decided to do with that, we weren't
going to be able to like fundraise off of it.
We weren't going to be able to get a big
(25:31):
media splash off of it. But we were able to
do was use that brief moment of legitimacy within the
progressive movement as a whole to boost all of our volunteers,
to get everybody who was already plugged into this campaign
because they knew we were fighting for a world that
was affordable for everyone, even more jazzed up for the
(25:54):
last few days of canvassing. And if you look at
the numbers of what we did on election day, which
means people who were talked to once it was not
possible to mail ballots back, which is when we had
the ability to go out and use that Bernie Sanders endorsement.
We dominated came exactly real.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
While you're here, because I was kind of watching it
very closely. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but
you know, you were among the top candidates, but it
didn't look like you were in first place. And then this,
you know, the comeback kid. Yeah, I mean so that
I think that's what I saw.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
And we won the election day votes in the primary,
but not by the degree that we won them in
the general. And I really do attribute that to not
just the Bernie Sanders endorsement, because obviously it's not just
about this one person, but about how my volunteers, how
the community that had showed up for our campaign saw
(26:51):
that as proof that we were doing the right thing,
that we were fighting the good fight, and that we
could all go out and do it just a little
bit more to make sure we were able to win
what we were trying to fight for. Good stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Well, the truth is that you know, for me, you've
proven that a person with a good idea, you have
quite a few good ideas, but a person with a
good idea who is fueled by some conviction can get
involved and make something happen, can make the changes that
(27:27):
they want to see in the world. Your a living
testament to because I remember the first time we came
up on the show with that good idea, and here
you are a council member government and I'm excited to
see what you know the rest of your tenure holds.
I would imagine that this will go as far as
(27:47):
you'd like it to go. You know, count me among
one of your supporters. I'm really proud of you. And
then for folks that are just now hearing this conversation,
make sure that they can plug in, pay attention, maybe
get some inspiration and do and repeat your success in
their own city.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
If you want to know more about me and my campaign,
go to bobbyfourtemp dot com. You can go to our
social media pages at Bobby four Temp. That's the number
four where we are continuing to talk about what we're
doing on the political scene in Arizona. We're posting endorsements
of people who are running in the state house. Shout
out to Alberta Flores, Lizabeth A Scordanaga, Emily so Ortiz,
(28:22):
Lauren Kooby, people who are fighting for working people in
Arizona and get involved with DSA. Go join DSA right
now because this is where the organizing is happening. It's
a big ten organization for people who are left of
what the Democratic Party has established as acceptable, and we're
fighting to make the changes we need to make to
this system in order to keep the working class alive
(28:45):
and put us on top of the political structures.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Okay, once again, ladies and gentlemen, Bobby Nichols, temp Arizona's
first Democratic Socialist City council member. Once again, congratulations, Thank
you some time.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
It is an oscoby here. I love coming back and
I will be back. Okay, we love it.
Bobby Nichols is Tempe, Arizona's first Democratic Socialist city council
member and one of a slate of candidates endorsed by
Bernie Sanders. Bobby is the former Phoenix Democratic Socialist of
America's Chapter chair and current member. He is the founder
of the Arizona Works Together, a pro union political action
committee operating at the state level. Additionally, Bobby Nichols works
(00:22):
for the Office of the Arizona Attorney General as a
state attorney, representing Arizona's Departments of Child Safety and Economic
Security in superior and administrative court cases involving the abuse, neglect,
and exploitation of minor children and vulnerable adults. And he's
back in the studio with us today, So welcome back, Bobby.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Congratulation. I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, man, And you know, for the folks that don't
know talk about your recent win and everything that went
into that.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah. So, I just got elected to Tempee City Council,
like you said, first Democratic Socialist elected to city council
and Tempe, and I think in Maricopa County, actually there's
one Democratic Socialist in Tucson City Council. Her name is
Miranda Schubert. She's great, definitely an inspiring force in local
Arizona politics. But I mean, I'd like to take personal
(01:13):
credit for the win, but it is a team effort.
Over three hundred people showed up to knockdors for us,
more than a thousand people donated. We were able to
raise like sixty five thousand dollars from small dollar donations.
Didn't take a cent from corporate developers, land use attorneys,
monopoly utilities, or any of the big moneyed interests that
typically run Arizona's political scene. And I'm really really grateful
(01:37):
for all the incredible support we've received. It's humbling, it's encouraging,
it's inspiring. Gives me a lot of hope for the future.
And not just in Arizona, but around the country. As
you know, there's a lot of democratic socialists making big waves,
getting big wins, and yeah, it feels great.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I want to talk about that first while we're here
in Timpi. There is a maybe, well I don't know
this to be certain, maybe you know a little bit better,
but I'm sure that our listeners around the country might
be interested. There might be a more progressive element in
(02:17):
Tempe that might have led to your election to city council.
There is that true. Yeah, so there is a just
describe for folks that have never been so.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Tempe is a college town. ASU has been in Tempe
since before Tempei was even officially established. Being Arizona City University,
it's a massive force, so a lot of students come in.
We have a lot of highly educated people who are
doing incredible work around building businesses in Arizona, around developing
our state for working people. Just across the board. They
(02:53):
like to say number one in innovation. That doesn't necessarily
mean anything, but they are a big four in keeping
the city young and plugged in, and that leads to
a lot of progressive action in the political scenes. So
we are actually I was mentioned on a I don't
(03:15):
remember which news station did it, but somebody referred to
Tempe as the People's Republic of Tempe, which I think
is great, but you know, ultimately it did have a
lot of the same issues at other cities in Arizona
face where there's corporate capture. Our politicians are oftentimes responding
more to the desires of landlords and developers, and they
are to tenants and people who want to get into
(03:36):
home ownership, and it just led to a situation that
was out of control in terms of the actual liveability
and affordability of the city. Our housing costs were about
forty percent higher than the national average, so if you
wanted to buy a home in Tempe, you'd be spending
some two hundred thousand dollars more than the average home
cost around the country. Rents were about two hundred to
(04:00):
five hundred dollars more per month than around the rest
of the country on average, of course, but it made
it more difficult for students to build lives there, for
young people to develop families there, and so our schools
have seen massive drop offs enrollments, which has led to
big budget cuts that come from the state level make
(04:20):
it much more difficult for our schools to stay open.
A bunch of them recently had to close, which is
hugely problematic for a city that is catering to young
people through the university and is not able to maintain
or keep people in the city who are then graduating
with degrees and trying to go on to be really
valuable productive members of society, but are having to leave
(04:41):
because they just can't afford to live in Tempe.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Well fantastic, is there? You know, we haven't talked about
the other victories Democratic Socialist victories in the country yet,
so I'm skipping a head just a bit. But is
there maybe some commonality or maybe there's no commonality of
the electorate the base of people that are electing these
Democratic Socialists around the country. Is there any pattern that
(05:08):
we might recognize? And there's no wrong answer here, of course,
I'm not looking for anything, which just helps to know
who are electing the Democratic Socialists around the country.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I actually would say based on what we've seen, So
let's think about it. Not just DSA endorsed, but Bernie
Sanders endorsed ARM I'm Downey indors people who are fighting
for the affordability agenda, for lack of a better term,
trying to make it easier for people to own homes
or pay their rents, or get to work, or whatever
the case may be. I actually feel like the base
(05:43):
is significantly broader than the then most news outlets have
been trying to make it seem post the New York victories.
And what makes me say that is how successful Graham
Platner in Maine has been on a Senate level. That's
a statewide race in a city or in a state
that has had a Republican in the Senate for a
(06:06):
significant amount of time now. But this progressive who has
showed up as a working person who wants to make
it easier for working people to build families, live lives,
go on vacation, enjoy the time that they have in
the community, has been incredibly successful, absolutely dominated the corporate
(06:27):
candidate who came out late, of course, but also received
a ton of backing from people like Chuck Schumer and
Hakeem Jefferies who were more on the establishment, corporate funded
side of the Democratic Party. Of course, I think the big,
the ones that are most visible are going to be
the New York's of the world. They're going to be
(06:47):
the Darieliza of Vila, Chevalier, Clare Valdez, brad Lander to
a certain extent as well. It's all a repudiation of
the corporate capture politics usually in politics as usual. But
I think while in some of those cases you have,
you know, another a young or a highly educated electorate,
(07:09):
you also have other places where just working class people
are wanting to see that their representators are going to
show up and fight for their lives to be better
instead of making excuses about why nothing can ever be done. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I like that because there's still this air of boogeyman
associated with Democratic socialists on the right right, and it
would be too easy for especially those that oppose you,
to dismiss your victory as simply due to the fact
(07:44):
that it is in Timpe, and timp from what I understand,
is more diverse than just college students. A lot of
the college students don't live in Timpe, of course, they
can't afford a home in Timpe.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
And the ones who do live there often don't vote sure.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Sure, and I would imagine that a lot of the
people that work at the universities, as you mentioned, these
are educated people. These are people that aren't given to
simply the optics that the right wing has. A right
wing media, I should say, has attempted to chronicle, and
(08:22):
so a lot of the ideas I think that are
espoused by democratic socialists. I think they find fertile soil
in a place like that, but also, as you mentioned,
they find fertile soil in places like Maine, of course,
New York and other places around the country. But I
think there's something else here. Too, which is that Q
(08:45):
and I we had this conversation the other day and
speaking about Republicans, the Republicans at present control all three
branches of government because of Project twenty twenty five and
the ripple effects of that. They are loyalists, not even
just Republicans, but Trump loyalists are installed at every single facet, nook,
(09:12):
cranny of the federal government to execute on his will
and his will alone. We've certainly seen that here because
we broadcast so SCC Federal Communications Commission. And yet and
still the elected Republicans are concerned about voter fraud. In fact,
(09:36):
it's one of the primary fights that they are fighting
right now. And they're pushing back against voter fraud when
they've won all the elections, so they're creating like it
doesn't make any sense. If there was voter fraud, you
wouldn't have won the elections. In addition to that, Donald
Trump has led us into a war that nobody asked for.
(09:57):
Donald Trump has upset the global balance of pretty much
everything everything that we hold dinner in this country, And
all the promises that Donald Trump made on the campaign trail,
he's failed to deliver on the meaningful ones at minimum,
I would argue even more than that. And so it's
(10:19):
not just progressive minded people in college towns. Indeed, I
would imagine there's a not insignificant amount of what would
traditionally be Republican voters that are looking at this administration saying, Okay,
we've given Republicans all of the keys to the government
to see what they'll do. They have no excuse, and
(10:39):
life is not better, and so a person like you
comes along and says, hey, this could work, it has worked,
and this is what we want to do. And I
think there's a there's a Venn diagram, there's a cross
section of things that I think Republicans and Democrats both
want sincerely for the country. It's not rooted and hatred
or divisiveness, right that I think Democratic socialists are kind
(11:03):
of propping up so to speak to that. Maybe I
see that.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Maybe it's that reminds me of something that the current
Senate Democrat candidate for Texas, James tell Erico, has said.
And I don't necessarily fully agree with everything he's put out,
but what I do like is how he says this
is less a battle of left versus right than top
versus bottom Yeah, sure, And I think it's really important
(11:27):
to remember that in a capitalist country, we have two
capitalist parties, and while we are seeing incredible success by
socialist organizers within the more left wing of those capitalist parties,
it is important to remember that the pushback they're going
to see it's not a fluke. It is a feature
(11:48):
of the system and how we're seeing. There's now a
moderate manifesto that a couple of the more centrist Democratic
Congress people put out together, which is hilarious. It's intended
to push back against the Democratic socialists by showing that,
but it's pandering to the wealthy people who are funding
(12:11):
their campaigns. And what I would say about about Trump,
I'm going to back this up a little bit. So
in my campaign and in a lot of the campaigns
that we've seen, we've had incredible conversations with Republicans. There
are a ton of people who are just feeling the
burden of a world that does not work for them,
(12:31):
that's too expenses for them, where people don't seem to
care about whether they have the money to own a home,
or raise a family or do any of that, and
their government certainly is not making any effort to make
things better, and Democrats have spent a long time, corporate
Democrats especially, I should say, have spent a really long
time telling people to stop hoping for change. Despite what
(12:53):
the campaign promises of twenty eight and twenty twelve were
hope and change, we're fighting for a better future. As
soon as those things began, or that group sort of
took power, it immediately became well, we're going to do incrementalism.
We're going to try and make little changes, and by
not taking big enough steps, they gave room to the
right to come in and bring the fascism that we're
(13:15):
seeing today. The neoliberal bent of the Democratic Party establishment
has paved the way for the fascism of Donald Trump,
which is something that constantly requires crisis, so fascism cannot exist.
And this goes to what you were saying about the
(13:36):
voter restrictions that the Republicans are still fighting for even
though they keep winning elections. One of the core tenants
of fascism is our enemy is weak but also strong.
We are all powerful but also in crisis, and you
have to be able to square that circle with your
base in order to continue to push these policies that
(13:57):
don't help anyone because ultimately what fascism is a reaction
of the ruling class to keep themselves in power when
they notice that a social or political movement is rising
to threaten them. And in this moment, democratic socialism is
rising to threaten the ruling class in America, which is
why we're seeing fascism pushback so aggressively, and why we're
(14:17):
seeing the ruling class pushback so aggressively. So Donald Trump,
the Republicans, and even the corporate Democrats who are feeding
into the same machine, who are taking money from APAC
and the same donors who have propped up Donald Trump
and his fascism, are going to do everything they can
to belittle the success of democratic socialists, to make it
seem like we are only succeeding in strong blue areas,
(14:41):
and to make it feel like where we do succeed
it was a fluke. It's not something that's replicable. We
shouldn't try to do it again. And in fact, we're
harming the democratic process by running and winning these seats,
which is ironic because for so long the refrain of
the corporate establishment Democrats has been well, don't create another party,
(15:03):
just run within the Democratic Party and push the party
to the left. But now that people are pushing the
party to the left, they're having this very visceral reaction,
which I think speaks to what they ultimately wanted, which
was progressives and people who are fighting for a better
world to shut up and go away, which we're just
not going to do. I love that.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I'm going to add this to what it is you
were saying. This is Stephen A. Smith's voice here.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
If the Democratic Party becomes the likes of Zoramumdani, who,
by the way, I like, if the Democratic Party becomes him,
you have no chance. You have no chance on a
nashvial basis of terms of the presidency and Senate seats,
seats in.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
The House, you have no chance.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
You might have a democratic socialist sprinkled hand here, but
that ain't what America is.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
America is about capitalism.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
America's about dollars and says, you know what, it's not
about free stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Somebody gotta say it's uncle. See Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
So we played that audio on air, and your words
rang in my mind as I was having a conversation
with you, and in effect what I said was capitalism
(16:19):
should not be and was as far as I understand
not intended to be the end game for any country,
certainly not this one. Capitalism is a way for a
country to innovate, to grow, to develop economically on the
world stage, to get power to build its military. It's muscles, right,
(16:40):
and once capitalism has served its purpose for a country,
it can now shift towards socialism. This is something that
I learned from you. It is brilliant way of explaining it.
And I think that prior to that conversation, I like
many people thought of capitalism as just kind of what
(17:02):
it is. I mean, who would think to change it?
You don't, really, it's so big, and it's so ingrained
and was here before I got here, and we'll be
here after I'm gone. What it's like changing the sky
or changing the clouds. It's just too big for me.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
It turns out that's not true, right, And you and
I we had a conversation about it. Might have been
Finland or one of those places where they do have
a capitalist foundation. These are places that innovate. They they
believe in businesses, and you know, businesses have their role
in society. But it's not just business. It's not just
(17:37):
chasing a dollar. Indeed, the metrics of those society and
the health the barometer of those societies, not measured in
dollars and cents like we do here, because if you
were to try to measure the health of this society
and dollars and cents, you would only get a very
small snapshot of a few people and how well they're doing.
And that's because we pay attention to S and P.
Five hundred, the Dow and the Wall Street and all
(17:58):
that sort of stuff. These other countries they have these
their capitalist frameworks, but they have strong, incredibly robust socialist programs, right,
and so this push, I believe it is time for
this push because what we're dealing with, and I said
this on the show as well, is late stage capitalist.
(18:23):
What we're dealing with is unfettered capitalism. We're not just
dealing with capitalism. We're not an emerging country, we're not
third world and trying to get our footing on the stage.
So when a person like Stephen A. Smith screams into
this microphone saying that there is no future for the
Democratic Party when it comes to democratic socialists, it's effectively
(18:45):
what he's trying to say, how do you respond to that?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Well, first, I would point out that Stephen A's record
for picking winners, at least in terms of the NBA finals, Like,
I don't know how much we can take that as
as the arbiter of what's going to come down the pipe,
But I think his reaction is the natural reaction of
(19:07):
the outgoing capitalist ruling class to a world that is
leaving the system that benefited them so greatly behind. And
I think that's a human reaction. So I don't even
have I have no ill will towards anybody who looks
at the future that doesn't look like what we have
today and feels afraid. I think that's a very human reaction.
(19:29):
And I think Grahamcy, he's a communist from Italy during
the war, during the World War two and Mussolini's domination
and fascist domination of Italy, said this very effectively that
this is the time the old world is dying and
the new world is struggling to be born. So this
is the time of monsters. And what that means is
(19:52):
the world that existed before is afraid. It's in a corner.
It's trying to grasp onto whatever straw as it can
to maintain its authority and to maintain the benefits for
the people who have propped it up for so long
and the rest of us. The new world that benefits
everyone beyond just affordability, but where workers have control of
(20:14):
their lives. When we've expanded democracy from just the ballot
box to the workplace, to the home, to wherever we
have the opportunity to democratize human existence, we are also
becoming fighters. We're going to have to continue fighting for
this world because they're not going to just give it
to us. We have to go and take it.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I love it. One of the things that, to be fair,
I've never given Donald Trump too much in the way
of credit, but one of the things that I was
forced to give Donald Trump credit for is being effective
at delivering at least the optics that his base wanted
to see. Yeah, he got in there, his people installed,
(20:59):
and he got to work and DEI and black women
three hundred thousand black women lost their j like it
was crazy. And the immigration, sweet people getting shot in
the street, all kinds of stuff, right, And he showed
us what was possible. You mentioned democrats, you know in
twentsand and eight and twenty twelve. That's Obama, Yeah, you know,
(21:19):
and then we played the increment game. And I've always
kind of provided a lot of cover for Democrats and
for the country. This country is kind of a foul
country from the perspective of my people, right, but you know,
I'm kind of the optimist between me and Q, I think,
and so I've always kind of suggested to our listeners, Hey,
(21:40):
you know what, progress is very slow on the scale
of a country, on the timeline of a country.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But in the lifetime.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
You know, you might not see all that much, but
you know, relative to a country, you know you could.
This country has done some growing it's gone through some
growing pains in the last two hundred and fifty years. Well,
where we are might indicate where we could go when
it comes to Democrats and Republicans. That incremental stuff is
(22:10):
something that James Baldman spoke to. He asked the appointed question,
how much time does it take? Because it's taken my time,
it's taken my grandfather's time, it's taken my great grandfather's time.
Q could quote that a lot better than I could.
But his point is is that these things you could
change them right now if you so chose. Donald Trump
proved it, and you know who else proved it. Zoron,
Mom Donne, absolutely, and so I love the fact that
(22:35):
these people are not only getting elected, but they're delivering
on their promises. And I think that with Zoron Mom Donnie,
and I'll turn it over to you to jump in
and Jerry thoughts. But another thing you said on a
recent episode was that when Bernie was running both times, Bernie,
in my estimation, really had the support of the people.
(22:58):
He wasn't bought and paid for by anybody. People supported
Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton and the Democratic establishment did
their thing and they got bernieib out of there. And
then of course the second time that happened with him
when he was running against Joe Biden. It's hard to
forgive Democrats for that. However, Q mentioned that Bernie Sanders
(23:24):
was older. He looked older, and so for people that
weren't in love with Bernie Sanders, he looked frail relative
to the other candidates that were running. Zoron, Mam Donnie
did not look frail. He brought the panache, he brought
the charisma, and obviously the ideas you're another person that
(23:50):
you're like my personals are on man, Donna, and you know,
the ideas that Bernie was able to kind of like
the seeds, he was able to kind of plant and
water here and there in uh in speaking and you know,
being a surrogate speaker for different politicians over the years,
(24:12):
you know, watering those and having them take root. I
think that those ideas have turned into a population that
is ready to lean into this this era of this country.
That was a long roundabout way of me bringing Bernie
Sanders into the conversation. But I wanted you to speak
(24:33):
to how effective democratic democratic socialists have been, with Zoram
Mamdani obviously being one that you can speak to right
now because a lot of you guys are just getting
started here. But also I wanted you to talk about
how important it was to get that endorsement, like what
that felt like for you from Bernie himself.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I'll start with that, because it was absolutely serious. It was.
It was that way for me too. I was so
proud of you, and I knew that I had submitted
the application correctly, I knew they'd received it. I had
no idea that it was going to happen until three
days before it happened. Oh wow, And so we got
that update. We were not allowed to tell anybody until
(25:10):
the day they actually posted about it, and so it
was all I could do to bite my tongue for
those three days. But honestly, what you mentioned about a
lot of people now being primed for change because of
what Bernie Sanders did really played out in our campaign
because what we decided to do with that, we weren't
going to be able to like fundraise off of it.
We weren't going to be able to get a big
(25:31):
media splash off of it. But we were able to
do was use that brief moment of legitimacy within the
progressive movement as a whole to boost all of our volunteers,
to get everybody who was already plugged into this campaign
because they knew we were fighting for a world that
was affordable for everyone, even more jazzed up for the
(25:54):
last few days of canvassing. And if you look at
the numbers of what we did on election day, which
means people who were talked to once it was not
possible to mail ballots back, which is when we had
the ability to go out and use that Bernie Sanders endorsement.
We dominated came exactly real.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
While you're here, because I was kind of watching it
very closely. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but
you know, you were among the top candidates, but it
didn't look like you were in first place. And then this,
you know, the comeback kid. Yeah, I mean so that
I think that's what I saw.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
And we won the election day votes in the primary,
but not by the degree that we won them in
the general. And I really do attribute that to not
just the Bernie Sanders endorsement, because obviously it's not just
about this one person, but about how my volunteers, how
the community that had showed up for our campaign saw
(26:51):
that as proof that we were doing the right thing,
that we were fighting the good fight, and that we
could all go out and do it just a little
bit more to make sure we were able to win
what we were trying to fight for. Good stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Well, the truth is that you know, for me, you've
proven that a person with a good idea, you have
quite a few good ideas, but a person with a
good idea who is fueled by some conviction can get
involved and make something happen, can make the changes that
(27:27):
they want to see in the world. Your a living
testament to because I remember the first time we came
up on the show with that good idea, and here
you are a council member government and I'm excited to
see what you know the rest of your tenure holds.
I would imagine that this will go as far as
(27:47):
you'd like it to go. You know, count me among
one of your supporters. I'm really proud of you. And
then for folks that are just now hearing this conversation,
make sure that they can plug in, pay attention, maybe
get some inspiration and do and repeat your success in
their own city.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
If you want to know more about me and my campaign,
go to bobbyfourtemp dot com. You can go to our
social media pages at Bobby four Temp. That's the number
four where we are continuing to talk about what we're
doing on the political scene in Arizona. We're posting endorsements
of people who are running in the state house. Shout
out to Alberta Flores, Lizabeth A Scordanaga, Emily so Ortiz,
(28:22):
Lauren Kooby, people who are fighting for working people in
Arizona and get involved with DSA. Go join DSA right
now because this is where the organizing is happening. It's
a big ten organization for people who are left of
what the Democratic Party has established as acceptable, and we're
fighting to make the changes we need to make to
this system in order to keep the working class alive
(28:45):
and put us on top of the political structures.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Okay, once again, ladies and gentlemen, Bobby Nichols, temp Arizona's
first Democratic Socialist City council member. Once again, congratulations, Thank
you some time.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
It is an oscoby here. I love coming back and
I will be back. Okay, we love it.
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