Everyone vs ICE: On the Ground In Minnesota, Pt. 2

In the second part of a two part series, Margaret and James reflect on their time in Minnesota, the incredible community response to the immigration raids, and what other communities can learn from the Twin Cities.

Links:

Rent Support for neighbors in Phillips

https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-phillips-families-in-urgent-need

Rent Support for neighbors in Central

https://www.gofundme.com/f/critical-rent-assistance-for-central-neighborhood-families

Rent Support for neighbors in Powderhorn

https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-powderhorn-families-in-crisis

Supplies for Political Art Making

https://givebutter.com/spno

Protective Gear for Legal Observers

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-equip-twin-cities-legal-observers-with-ppe

Diapers and Menstrual Supplies 

https://secure.everyaction.com/jLLKnfwWk0qdptMbYLoyPQ2

Abolish Ice Shirts

https://www.eaglescreenprint.com/printshop/p/defend-612-abolish-ic3-wnj6e

Northstar Front Line Street Medics

https://www.paypal.com/biz/profile/northstarhealth

Twin Cities Swoletariat Bail Fund

Venmo: @TCSwoletariat

Cashapp: $TCSwoletariat

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Call Zone Media. Hi friends, it's me James, and I
just wanted to explain as you're listening to this. We
recorded this around midnight on Friday, after having spent I
think three days four nights in Minneapolis, and the tone

(00:23):
of what we recorded here is hopeful. I remain hopeful
and inspired by the people we met in Minneapolis, and
I remained so proud of everything they've done. But about
nine hours after we sent this off to our editors,
Alex Pretty was killed by two Border Patrol agents, and
the tone of this would have been different if we

(00:46):
had recorded after that, And that's just the nature of
the work we do. But we don't want anything in
the hopeful tone here to suggest that we don't grieve
his passing, that we aren't thinking of the people who
loved him right now, because we understand that they're going
through a very difficult time. But we still want you
to learn from what's happening in Minneapolis and from what

(01:07):
people are doing there, and we hope that you remember
that as you did through this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
And I think that, honestly, those two things that we
have to balance just as we deal with the state
of the world is just you know, everyone we talked to.
This is so present on their minds. Is both an
awareness of the beauty of the things that they are
building and also an awareness of the darkness that has
caused them to need to build these things. But anyway,

(01:33):
we hope you enjoy these episodes and are following more
closely with more current news about what's happening, and are
talking to the people around you wherever you are about
how you will keep yourself and your neighbors safe and yep, thank.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
You, Hello, and welcome to cool People could happen here
it podcast, which is what happens when two podcasts love
each other and go to Minneapolis to go on a
trip to Minneapolis in the winter.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, where it is called.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
I am one of your hosts today. My name is
James Stout and I'm very lucky to be joined by
my friend Margaret Kiljoy.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Hello, welcome to the thing that we're doing. M should
we talking about today? We talked last time about some
rapid response to mutual a and there's more to be
said about that.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah. Today is the twenty third.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, it's the past for you.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
All, but it's present for us. Yeah, it's amazing how
podcasting work like that Today was.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
The second realish, real general strike I've been to in
my life. Yeah, first one was in Oakland during Occupy Okay,
so they pulled off a pretty serious general strike. Thousands
of US shut down the ports. It was really beautiful.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
But yeah, that was poss today, Lion, I had to
shut shit down really, with the exception of the Federal building,
which we will discuss. It's been remarkable. We've been here
since Tuesday, it's Friday. How just the momentum has grown.
Like seeing we went past someplace I think it was
like a place that repaired like electronics of some description.
They just had a little thing being like, attention, we're

(03:17):
not opening on Friday. Like yeah, it's these businesses which
have no reason, you know, like these outward facing reasons too.
You know, it's not even businesses which rely on the
community for business and have to signal the community that
they're with them, right, it's just people who are being
like yeah, nah, no, you know, like that seems shut. Yeah,
let's we got to do something. Let's all close down

(03:41):
and go protest. One thing that I was sent and
share this with you, Margaret, some unkind was a list
of businesses that were like, yo, we will not be
participating in like profit making today, but if you need X,
that's what we do. Come by. Yeah, Like if you know,
if you're hungry, if you're cold, if you need a
cup of coffee, what if you need to bicycle fix

(04:01):
whatever it is, Like if you want to screenprint abolish
ice on a shirt? Yeah, swing my, Like we'll just
be opened up for the community. Comes a high. Yeah,
Like we don't want your money, we just want your solidarity.
Like I thought that was cool And.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
On some level it's been happening for a while to
like to talk about how yesterday we went to power
our Grounds.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Right, there is a indigenous own coffee shop called power Ground.
They're actually worth donating directly too because of their mutual
aid projects. That will probably be in the list of
things that we include. And you go in and the
coffee is free now, and you know, we were like, well,
we want to pay you for tea, and they were like,
you can pay us for tea.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, And we were able to like put some money
behind in case someone else came in and needed.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Right, but the entire space has been taken over by
a mutual aid organization. Yeah, And it's you know, indigenous run.
We talked to someone from AIM American Indian Movement yea
about the work they've been doing there, and you know
which is that they've been you know, actually just turning
it into like making sure everyone has everything they need.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
By creating these places that are good to hang out in,
you make really good rapid response places. Yeah, we we
you know, this is the first person we heard from
about just like I was like, how does this work?
How does the rapid response work? And I was like, oh,
there's more of us than there are them.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, yeah, we can keep showing up, like.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
And uh yeah, so like you know, people are people
are hanging out there and so you know, and it's
it's right in a place where Ice likes to fuck
with people.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah. Well it's like for people who aren't familiar with
that block, right, Like I've read a lot about AIM.
It's yeah, I'm interesting like that Franklin Avenue. I believe
it's where AIM began. Right, Well, that's an understanding with
Community Watch, which is what's happening now exactly, was doing
patrols to keep their community safe. Yeah. So it's a
cool little full circle movement. Yeah, this is a space
which is obviously designed to like center and protect indigenous folks. Yeah,

(05:54):
but they were just like, yeah, anyone who's out there
doing the work, please come by. We got snack packs
for you because it's we may. We've got four different soups,
got a vegan soup, we got a gleam free soup.
Like like, they were more than happy for folks to
come by.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Get fed, Yeah, get get warm. Yeah, big a big
thing here, people, you know, sort of make light of.
You know, there's the whole quip that Orally works on me,
which is the like Ice made the classic Nazi mistake
they invaded a winter people in winter, And that's true.
But it is exceptionally cold right now.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, like we last night, I think, due to an
error on my part, were locked out of the place
we are staying. Yeah, I think it's fairly clear that
I fucked up there.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
That's fine.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
It becomes a risk to your well being pretty quickly. Yeah,
to put it in another way, how cold it is today.
I took the battery out of Margaret's vehicle and blue
hot air from a head ryer on it sometime so
we could try and start it.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
So a jump would work because yeah, a jump wouldn't
work without also heating up for the battery.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, the battery didn't have enough coal cranking.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yet to get Yeah, despite being a brand new battery.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, you need different times for your truck, You need
different oil field vehicle, You need your battery to be warm. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
People have engine block heaters for gas engines. I don't
even have a diesel. Okay. So this morning we knew
as the general strike, we went and got enough supplies
to have enough food without having to go shopping today.
And you know, we get up and we knew that
there was going to be a direct action this morning
at the Whipple building. And the Whipple Building is Oh

(07:31):
I wish once this whole thing is scripted, you will
understand all this better. But there is a building that
used to be a fort and it was a fort
in ye oldie even more murder of indigenous people times.
And it was the fort from which they would go
out and capture people. Yeah, and that is what it
is again. It is the center of the ice operations here.

(07:52):
It is where everyone has taken both citizen and non
citizen for processing. And there's like one way in and
one way way out. And there have been people I
keep talking about. We were talking about this hyper local
rap and response. Yeah, there's been people at the Whipple Building,
at this wrap of a place.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
With one way and then one way, these places a
fortress ass building. Yeah, right where it's really easy to
kidnap people because the kidnap place is right there. Yeah,
there have been people there are basically every day. Yeah,
and like just blatantly being like we are here to
track you all anti ice people have been there every day. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
So there was a call to go to it this morning,
and so we did and you know as press. Yeah,
and we did not get there on time because my
car absolutely that start.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, but multiple people came to rescue us.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, like multiple people showed up to help out of
towners who aren't even core of were We weren't there
to get stuff done. We're just here to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah. Like someone came to or for us to jump.
Someone else was like, hey, did you get a jump? Yes,
someone was like do you want to ride? Do you
need to borrow my vehicle? Yeah? And these weren't people
we known very long, but yeah, the longest we've known
these people was since Tuesday, it's Friday, and.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
So people come up, get the vehicle working, We drive there,
and the whole time both of us are moderately outdoorsy people, right,
put it mildly in your case and to be accurate
in my case. Yeah, Like, and we spent the whole
time be like do we have enough gear?

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Do we enough winter gear? You know we both have
these new insulated boots we got for this trip. Yeah,
and like I live in the mountains. You were a
literal sports person.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, I enjoyed to be in the mat Yeah. When
I have time, I will go into the mountains and
sleep outside.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, is cold.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
It was cold. You know there's a cold when your
noseheads freeze when you breathe in and then yeah, then
there's a cold when you're like my eyes are like
actually icing over. Yeah, like this is alarmingly cold.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Is the coldest day here since twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen,
is what we learned.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, And and you know, when I talked to my
friend before I came, I was like, it's going to
be horrendously cold. Are people still going to show up?
And you know, my friend who lives here is like, well,
we will Ice will be miserable. Yeah, and we saw
probably ten thousand people outside today. Yeah, between the two protests,
mostly the larger one.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah. Like, so we roll up right and there is
a small shield wall barricading one of the waves that
Ice gets into the Whipple building to incarcerated people who
they have snatched. Yeah, there are probably half a dozen
shields and then two big corrugated steel which.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Is the level of bravery of that.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, Like that is audacious, Yeah, because there will maybe
one hundred people in that whole formation, right, and the
shield walls facing two ways. We check it out. As
we arrive, we see what we later learn was an
Italian camera operator there had been maceed in the face.
I just want to like break down again, Like we
we've made light of the cold, and it's funny that

(10:56):
it's cold. You get maced, right, generally you want to
pour water on your face. Right. The clock is ticking
pretty quickly once you start pouring liquid on exposed skin.
In these temperatures, the clock is ticking on exposing skin
in these temperatures, any exposed skin is dangerous. I have
this like basically balaklava that I like, I don't wear

(11:19):
to protest.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
That's sketchy. Yeah, And then I'm like, oh no, I'm
gonna like die if I don't wear this thing that
covers every inch of my face.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, Like I have a helmet with goggles, and I
wasn't wearing the goggles for particularly, like I didn't think
I was going to get a pepper ball in the eye.
I needed the air not to touch my eyes. So
like this, this is amazing, is serious, right? And I
saw that and I saw them pouring water and I
was like, oh shit, actually that's quite grave. And they
actually did have a staged water truck the spray people.
They didn't spray people with water, but yeah, that's what

(11:49):
we heard where there was a water truck staged in
the in the parking lot. To be clear, like that
could have killed someone really easily. Yeah. So then that
was one entrance. We were like, let's go to go
back the other entrance. See what the whole scene is here.
As we're walking, first of all, we come past someone
with one of those like trolleys that people pull. They
have the better part of like a thousand tans and

(12:10):
foot toe warmers, and they are stoked to be given
them out right, So we put handwarmers inside our gloves.
Then we see someone who's pulled up in a mini van.
That is the warming car. People do get cold, they
get in there and they warm them up. We come around,
someone has snacks. Someone's playing public enemy. As we come
around further, we see this is the place that I

(12:33):
are coming in with people, right, And so there are
people who were there shouting at them. I saw a
couple of like snowballs thrown and like, yeah, there were
people who are throwing snowballs, right, But there were also
folks who just turned out to be like, you know,
I'm more of a that's not my vibe. But if
you would like a snack while you're throwing them, I'm
here for you. No one was like, hey, don't do that.

(12:55):
Everyone was showing up in their own way, and that
was really cool.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, it's like one of the things that you know,
I asked at one point, I was like, what's the
like discourse like about you know, the usual thing that
divides people about, like I'm going to use air quotes here.
You can't see but violence and non violence yeh, which
are like complicated age, right, you know, and you know,
and there's obviously people like we've met people who've been
like and we're non violent, and they're like really excited,

(13:21):
and that's an important party.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Who had yellow vests on being like peaceful observer, don't shoot.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right, And then there's also people who are like, we
didn't see any of it, but there's graffiti all over town.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, like fuck peace justice doesn't bring him back.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, And I was like, what's the discourse like between
these groups? And everyone we've talked to is like, there
isn't time for that.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, we go shit to be doing.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, and like you know, even when people are discussing things,
they'll try to start having a discussion and someone's like, hey,
Ice is on that corner. Yeah, and not that these
discussions aren't worth it. Well, I famously my pinned post
on Blue Sky's discourse is the mind Killer. But like,
and you can see se just like right here, right,
because there's people who are like, when you show up
with shields at a shield wall at blocking a federal

(14:06):
agents from being somewhere, you're clearly being mildly antagonistic, right,
it is as a rowdy thing to do. And you know,
and at the same time, right, like we didn't make
it to this because they were happening at the same
time more or less, but not very far away at
the airport. We're not the news in this particular case.
It could happen here is a news show, but this

(14:27):
is still not the news. We're reporting right now, like
one hundred and fifty clergy people were restless of all
disobedience because the airport's being used to transport people away.
Did real quick tangent about that. I think it's really
beautiful because there's so much you know that the national
presses of course, like these anti Christian people attack church,
and like, you know, the churches are on our side,

(14:48):
except like one or.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Two if we were staying next to our church. Yeah,
and like we get up in the morning that first day,
we heard the honking and we see like, yeah, the
church has got a sign being like yeah, I've knowniced ice.
It seems bad. Yeah, I think is not what Jesus
would have done.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah. So we're at the thing and you know, we're like, okay,
this is happening, and we start seeing the police getting
ready to use munitions.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Right, we come back from the first place to where
the shield wall was, right, right, shield wall is no
longer there, we think, huh, weird, no shield wall.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
And there's a line of police.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Oh look at that. It's Hennepin County Sheriff Department. Yeah,
and yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
No, no, I mean that's the thing is that it's
always really sad when you come back and expect to
see a shield wall and instead there's a line of police. Yeah,
and they are yelling dispersal orders at the at the
shield wall, which is already banked dispersed.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
They're like they're they've been they've been pushed away. We
can't hundred yards away. Yeah, like we we just like
straight up can't see them. And we are told and
no uncertain terms by some other folks who are standing.
This is not a large crowd. The crowd has been
moved and we're just kind of yeah, the crafts between
us in our car.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
One, two, three, four, five, six of us. Yeah, there's
six of us. And I was I was counting people
in my head. I can I can't stay sick.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
No, No, you're right, And two of the people were
standing next to are like, yeah, if you cross this
red line. They told us that if we crossed this
red line, the National Guard will shoot us dead. Yeah,
and it we did not test that.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, I'm not sure if they would A bit near
young over song about it.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Right, and we're not in Ohio would be fine.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
And minniesry to National Guard.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, and so they they are not letting us go.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah. To be clear, the red line would have signified
we were entering into like a military area.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Right, totally with no like barricades or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Just they had barricades further along, right, Yeah, to make
vehicles weave yet drive straight up.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
It's the side of a public road where the light
rail station. So there's the line of police and they're
mostly facing away from us. There's about two people facing
towards us. Are cars between them. We are marked press.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah, and wearing a bright red helmet with pressed to
us on it. Blue helmet with presto because really black.
The first the cops keep pushing the shield wall further
away from us, and we hear them on the l rad.
This has been declared an lawful assembly. I did hear
somebody shout by who? That is a very good question, honestly. Yeah. Unfortunately,

(17:20):
the Hennepin County Sheriff's Department were not very interested in
answering questions. Yeah, and the way that we learned this
is that a couple of people I would call them
older folks just from looking at them from a distance.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
They weren't the young rowdies holding shields.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
They were absolutely not know. It was an older gentleman
in a male presenting person in carharts right, who walked
up coveralls, yeah, yeah, with hands up right, very clearly
hands up and seemed to be asking or talking. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
It was like probably going up to being like, hey,
what's happening? Yeah, like whatever, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Can I go over there? That person was arrested. Yeah,
so was another person who was with them. Yeah, and
they were told they were arrested on the l rad.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
We could hear them. Yeah you are onto our.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Ros Yeah yeah, that was very strange.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Then a bus arrived, more cops got out, and those
two people were put on the bus. Yeah, three people,
there's three, three of them, three on the bus. Yeah, Okay,
the majority of the police in turn to face us, yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
All six by now, there's probably twelve of us. Yeah,
because because other people are like, hey, my car's over
there too, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
They're there in between us and where we parked our cars.
Right now. Yeah, And then they turn the l rad
around right, and then they tell us that they have
issued a dispersal order due to something about like a
legal conduct, which again, we are standing on the platform
with a light rail station at this point, and I've
seen no one do anything other than stand around. I've
seen someone through us noble up somewhere else we're in
a different location. And then they say we have five

(18:45):
minutes to disperse, and they they give us a cardinal direction.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
We have to disperse east onto a road that no
one with us knew what was.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah, we're all looking like we're in a kind of
weird amazing. I had previously tried to walk up to
this line and be like can we go through to
our car please?

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, we would like to disperse, Yeah, because at this
point we're like this is just going bad. Yeah, we're
pressed now.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
To be there, right. We're here to report and if
we get arrested, we can't report and there's nothing to
report on, yeah, because the cops have cattled us with
two other press.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, the rest of the Italian news crew who can't don't.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Have a camera, but they're still trying to do reporting.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
But brave as hell yeah, because they're just still standing
there and they're like, yeah, you know, fake Italian accents,
and they're just like our camera person got made.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, they'll be fine, but they got made.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
And so the cops had very clearly indicated that they
were not interested in that arrangement. So we went back
to standing there wondering which way was east. I was
trying to get under my last my watch, I could
pull up a company.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
I had figured out which way was east. I even
had a suspicion about how to go that, but I
am willing. I believe I'm talking to other people who
are elsewhere there that day, that day, today, this morning.
It's been a long day. I don't normally drink caffeine.
I am on caffeine. I believe that is where the
other line of police was starting to kettle people from it.

(20:16):
It seems like, so I actually believe they were not
actually offering us away out at all.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah. I, on the other hand, was readers. I couldn't
get to my watch it was I knew it was
before noon, so I was looking for where the sun
was and I knew some celestial navigation, and at that
point we saw well, actually at that point, we went
to the train platform and a light rail train was
going not towards our carpet away from it. Yeah, but
it didn't open the doors when it came to the platform. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
We were like, we want to call though, I said.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Margaret, We're fucked. Margaret said get ready to run. I
guess yeah. And then as they were advancing towards us, comrade,
light rail train arrived. Everyone got on.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
The train literally last minute.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, scootle straight past the police line.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
And then we got off and commenced walking around to
try and find a way back to our vehicle. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
So that was our morning. That was I mean, whatever,
it's weird, the party is least affected, but to be
like really just transparent about it. This is the coldest
day of my life. I've experienced negative temperatures before. Yeah,
I haven't experienced negative thirty something windchill.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Like we were seeing people getting off the light rail.
Everyone's eye lashes had frost in them.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Anyway, just to just to keep hitting that point, well,
like that was one.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Of my concerns with detainment, right with like corps ledgendarily
don't treat people in their custody very well, right, and
I was very worried about right two, they did seem
to be getting the people they arrested quickly on that bus. Yeah,
but like that was my worries, right. You get if
you lose a glove when you're being handcuffed, that's not
a that's you know, that's serious.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah, that's like maybe you lose your fingers now at
the end of that like, because it's like genuinely like
a I know, we keep harping on it, but it's
just it's a it's a present characteristic. Yeah, my car
is a mess right now because we can't clean it
because that involves standing outside in like negative eighteen or whatever.
The fuck.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
All of these numbers have become meaningless to me at
this point anyway. You know what keeps me warm, Margaret,
the handwarmers we purchase with the money that we get
from advertisements. Yeah. I was gonna say, thinking about thinking
about how the products and services support the show love
to support me and the work I do. But I
don't think they actually know what I do and look.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Listen to numbers to be honest, Yeah, I think they
don't hear our transitions shit, and they don't And here
they are.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Enter back.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
So we we go to this and then we go
to the clear highlight of the day, which is the
ice call crashed and yeah, yeah, that is when we
decided we got to we we received word that an
ice vehicle had t boned telephone.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, I was doing a blue sky thread and I
was like, Nope, that's a shorter thread.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Because we gotta go. Yeah. I'm not as good as
Margaret is at skating when I'm at things, so I'm
so used to being in places where it would be
a risky to everyone involved. Yeah, posted I was there. Yeah,
so we yeah, we go, right, we park a few
bucks away. Once we see flashing lights. Yeah, we start
booging up the street at fast walk pace, which is
about as fast as you're gonna go when it's an
inch of ice on everything. Yeah, and we see this

(23:35):
car that has faired. There's traffic coming roundabout that. Clearly
they were not expecting to be there. It looks like
they've they've been trying to go straight over to roundabout
and have.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, they're just like the front of their car is
just crashed in a fifteen mile per hour street.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah. Yeah, like a street where like you would expect
a trial to be riding a bicycle in the summer.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, and it's like it's one of those streets that's
like cars on both sides one one lane that two
cars have to pass each other by backing up. Yeah,
and they clearly just blew through it. They don't give
a fuck. And that's like a thing we've heard over
and over from the people who tail them is that
they they drive erradically, they drive, they drive recklessly because

(24:15):
they are they think they're immune to all consequences. Yeah,
and they are. They are until someone like the only
people giving them consequences are the people of the city,
not in the city itself or the state.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, this is the thing. Actually, I'll just I have
spent more time than nearly everyone at the southern border
of the United States, in more places right in California,
in Texas, in New Mexico, in Arizona, ave been up
and down the border. There is one thing that unites
the border experience, be it on torn or Tumb Reservation

(24:50):
in Arizona, be in San Diego being New Mexico, or
in the Rio Grand Valley of Texas, and it is
that border patrols driving is a risk to everyone, and
you can hear the most straight up right wing people.
I think. I love what they're doing. I don't want
the Margarets in my country, but I wish they wouldn't
drive like digs and like they've killed people on the
Autumn reservation, right, Like this is serious and that what

(25:14):
is happening once again is that the border is coming
to a city and people are seeing this is not new,
it's new here.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
The driving erratically is such a perfect though example of
like what power does to people, Like you have an
unaccountable force, and they will do horrible things. Yeah, they
will do major horrible things like kidnapping people, and they'll
do heady I don't care, I am just drunk on
power things.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Or they will leave the cars and drive when they
pull them out right, like the second topic the park,
or like yeah, in this case, they will case a
telephone pole.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Right anyway, So then we decide we're going to the
big march downtown. Yeah, you know, because the general strike
has a component that is a big march downtown. And
the single most important thing about that to me was
again to keep harping on it the cold because I
know a lot of people who go to these sorts
of marches, right, and these are the sorts of marches

(26:09):
that a lot of people go to who don't necessarily
do a ton of other political activity. Although here it
probably feels a little different because a lot of the
people go into that march who probably are the kind
of sign holding going to the big march kind of
people are also quite possibly at the very least showing
up on air whistles.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, you doing the work right, the buying the groceries
whatever it is. Yeah, like I think one thing I
was started. So we're walking towards march, and it is
one of the genies that you gets a lot when
you're going to a big action, right, You feel like
a salmon and everyone's just swimming up the swimming in
the stream together or you know whatever, tuna and you're
all going towards the same space. And that's cool. That's

(26:49):
always nice to feel the size. And then we get
there and it's big, like there's a lot of people,
and it's cold, Like, I know, we keep popping on
about the cold. It is cold as shit. Margaret's ear
was a little bit out. We were both worried about
Margaret's ear. Yeah, like it's you want to ensure it,
like skin coverage in these temperatures. Yeah, we get there

(27:12):
and like so they're meeting in like a big square
and then they're marching through the street, right, Yeah, and
there are also people on like there are internal walkways
between buildings above the street and all of them around
with people with signs or cheering and stuff. And the
thing I noticed as we got there was like immediately
we set foot in that square, we're once again being
offered hot cocoa handwarmers. There's a guy with like a

(27:34):
you know, there's orange insulated containers. They use it like sports,
like a gator. He's got soup in it. Yeah, he's
backpacking the supers. It's vegan and gluten free and he's
handing out soup. There are multiple people who have just
set up to care for people because it's cold and
people might need caring for, right, Like, there are all

(27:57):
kinds of facilities there to like look after folk. Yeah,
we received I have some hand warmers. I think you
and I both took some hand warmers. And there wasn't
at least where we were like a speaker, there was
some chanting. Yeah, at this point, like I would love
to include to be a role of chanting. Unfortunately it
was so cold that both my voice recorders refused to work.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Oh yeah, one by one, every electronic device that James
brought ate shit, and I like, you know, I'm much
you'll listen to my shit. I'm much more of a
ViBe's podcaster where I like just observe and then write
everything down. James is a proper podcaster and journalist and like, uh,
you know, as b roll of things, not.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
As much today yet, everybody, my voice recorder, which has
been through the Darien Gap as it tended this Syrian
civil war, it's been to the place where the US
dropped a nuclear bomb. It didn't make it out of Minneapolis.
It's gone to Valhalla now, yeah, which is sad. I
even tried to record on my phone, but my phone
just black screened.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
On me like this comedy.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, it was pretty funny when when the cell phone tied,
it was like previously I had been painting a picture
fuel using my nose to unlock the phone and then
like actuate apps because I didn't want to take my
glove off.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
We would we would take turns taking our hands out
of gloves to touch buttons on things.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah, or to like adjust you chose clothes, or like, yeah,
someone watched me doing the phone thing and they gave
me a nod like yeah doing the nose phone Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah totally, and like I don't know, I just I
keep talking about how the sense of togetherness it's inspiring. Like,
full disclosure, I'm not a big rally person. I'm much
personally more interested in mutual aid and direct action. I'm
disinterested in it when it seems like a way for
people to check off that they've done their resistance.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, definitely if that feels like you're warm, fuzzy and
that's all you want.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
But in this case, it was more I don't know
for certain, it was more of a warm fuzzy for
people who we were also just doing this hard thing
day in and day out.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
It felt like when you and your friends, like, you know,
when you're doing a hard, long, neutral aid thing, right,
you know, like or let's say you're engaged in a
project that feeds people every week and once a year
you get together and have a dinner together. Right, it
felt a bit like that, or like yeah, you know
a little bit like when we were feeding people in
the desert. We would sit down afterwards and talking about
this with someone Today, we would like eat vegan MRIs

(30:26):
out of the packets like people eat go goots, Yeah,
because we were too tired to walk off food while
we were hungry. But we would just spend a little
bit of time in community and celebrate what we've done.
What was cool though, was like sometimes after those big
actions you feel a little lonely, but like it felt
like that was just everyone going over there, but like
there was also everyone elsewhere as you kind of went

(30:46):
around the city, you know, right, Like it wasn't like
that was the end of it.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, And I was I was worried it would, you know,
draw people away from other things. But you know, even
this huge crowd was only a tiny portion of the
people doing things in the city. People are still doing things.
And at one point I was like, hey, it's maybe
it's Thursday. We were like, hey, we still less people
out today. Was that because the cold was starting to
dry people inside? And we talked to someone and they're like, no,

(31:13):
ice was less out today than it was yesterday. But
if ice had come out, all of those people would
have come out again. They were all staged and ready
to go. And one of the things, actually, the warm
fuzzy thing that feeling. One of the things that we
talked to is that people are very aware that they're
organizing for the long haul. Like yeah, you know, I again,
I'm I don't have the news in front of me.

(31:35):
But the word on the ground here is people being like,
we think ice might be here till June, right, and
so people are like, how do we do that?

Speaker 1 (31:42):
You know?

Speaker 2 (31:43):
And one of the things is that, like there are
people providing things to the people doing things, you know,
the people whose job is to provide things for other
people or having people provide things for them.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, And there's this moment I think about all the time.
I'll accidentally do like the you know. It was at
this protest in the Netherlands and the cops try to
grab my friend. Yeah, and they try to grab him
because he's screaming the Netherlands as a police state, which
they try to make their point by trying to grab him, right,
So everyone holds on to him, So the cops start
just beating the crap out of the people holding on

(32:17):
to him. So people start grabbing onto the people who
are holding on to the person they start trying to
beat the people who are holding on to the people
who a holding on to the people who are holding
on to the people. By the time he gets to
like four layers out, the cops are just like, yeah,
fucking yeah, fuck this all right. The center person is
never arrested, you know. And that's what solidarity is. But

(32:38):
that's also a lot of the mutual aid stuff, like
we're talking about to people who are like, yeah, we
work day in and day out on this stuff, and
other people are like massage therapists and regular therapists are
talking with us, you know, and like people are building
the infrastructure to try and make it sustainable and who knows,

(33:00):
I don't know whether you can truly sustain what's happening here, right,
but like they're going to fucking try.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah. The way I like to explain anarchism to people
who's there's sometimes the confusion, right that people think anarchism
is a predilection for chaos and violence, and that's not
what it is. I like to explain the anarchism at
its core is building ways of caring for one another
that don't reinforce ways of controlling one another. Yeah, And

(33:27):
that's what people are doing here, right.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, under any name.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, it doesn't mean the rest of it is really ephemeral.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
A lot of them are anarchists, but not not anywhere
near the majority of them.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, but I think that we can use what Gym's
got called the anarchist squint, right, and see, yes, people
building networks here that make the state unnecessary. Yeah, irrelevant
right now. Understand violence is still very much relevant, but others. Right,
the Feds are going to cut funding. Yeah, they can
cut foodstamps in Minnesota. Yeah, people are still going to
get food to their neighbors. Right. They can cut education funding.

(34:01):
We heard that there are schools which have a very
diverse background. And by the diverse here, I don't just
mean like people of different races, but also people of
different income brackets, right, And the wealthier parents are like,
which families aren't able to work? How do I help
them make their rent? Yeah? Oh god.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
It was funny when yeah people were like, oh, you
know the thing where like the rich parents are like
really excited to help everyone and feed everyone. I was like, no, that, Yeah,
that's how you realize that's not the stereotype like.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
It should be. Yeah, it should be. Well, I think
folks are really like, huh, what do the world without
these people look like worse? I don't want that? Yeah, Like,
what do I have that I can use to stop that?
I have my time, I have my body, I have
my money. Let me give them all of them? Yeah, yeah,
I thought that was very cool. I think the the
specific thing that has made people. I saw little signs

(34:58):
they have the name for one of the guys from
like Liam, the young, very very young kid, right, the
five year old kid with the Superman but when it
was yeah, grabbed the spider Man. Yeah, he was grabbed
the other day. I saw a lot of people with
science about.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
That, Like it made me want to cry. And just
seeing the signs.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, well, these little outrages continue to bring people out
of their safe, warm comfort bubbles and be like no,
like I am going to do whatever it takes, my money,
my time, whatever, right.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, you know William van s Bronson. Yes, for people
who are listening, there was a an IWW member named
William von s Bronson who was killed by ice a
number of years ago now because he decided that he
would go and try to set some ice stuff on
fire middle of the night.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, I think it was buses, right, unoccupied buses to
be clear.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, middle of the night, empty buses, the buses that
they're using to kidnap people, and the cops showed up
and killed them.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah right.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
And he was seen as kind of this, this lone
wing nut. Yeah, you know, and I'm watching it and
I'm like, this man is going to be written about
history books as like a guy actually started doing something
early about this. And it is his statement that he wrote.
I'm not telling people that this was a wise action
for him to have taken, whatever, you know, But in

(36:14):
his statement he wrote he wrote a line something like,
I am off to fulfill my childhood promise to myself
to be noble, and like he knew he was going
to die doing that actually, right. That certainly seems to
be the tone from the letter. But that line the
idea of fulfilling your promise to yourself to be noble,

(36:39):
And the thing that is beautiful here is that you
can now do that with people and effectively. And I
think that a lot of the things that stop people
from taking action is a belief that it would be
shot in the dark, it would be alone thing, it
wouldn't it wouldn't accomplish anything, right, because most actions you

(37:03):
can take yourself don't accomplish nearly as much. And to
be clear that the people who built rapid response networks
here they learn from other cities. They learn from Chicago,
who learned from la Right, that is the lineage that
I've heard presented, but they have developed and expanded because
this is actually a bigger thing than operation on ices,

(37:23):
part than either of those. But so people can do
We've been put on this earth to do, which is
be our best selves. And I think that there's even
as hard as it is for people, I think that
there's a dark beauty that they get to know who

(37:46):
they are, and they get to know that they are
people who will make sandwiches, you know, because that's the thing,
and they will risk everything to make sandwiches. They will
risk everything to follow ice vehicles. Imagine following a murderer
down the street. This man's a murderer, yeah, mad right

(38:06):
here shoots people.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Well, not just that, right, this person has the power
to kill me and not face consequences.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, that's what they're shouting at people. Yeah, and everyone
is shouting at at them. Yeah yeah, and it works.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, And it's people who you wouldn't expect the people
he would expect, both together alongside each other. Yeah. I
think a lot about how like how much things have
changed in this country in a year. Lots of it's bad, right,
But like, abolish ice was a pretty niche position in
twenty twenty. Let me tell you you didn't really hear it, right,

(38:42):
Abolish ice is a compromise position.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Now as the centrist position. Yeah, that is reform ice
center right.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, yeah, I reform ice is in some parts of
the Republican body right. Abolish ice is pretty much in
between the two. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
The political parties haven't caught up to this fact.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yeah, but they'd never do. They always take longer than
everyone else. But let me tell you, there was you know,
what would Ronald Reagan guy do when you've lost the
what would Ronald Reagan guy do? You're in fucking trouble? Yeah,
this country?

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah, And I love how it's like we talked to
a lot of people with a lot of different political ideas.
Most people didn't have. This is my political ideology expressed. Yeah,
but like you know, people are like just blunt, like, well,
it would be better if the politicians were doing it
and they're not.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, it's this lady who Again, the lady said, oh,
there's are local cops. You don't have to worry about them. Yeah.
A couple of days later it turned out. But she
was like, it would be great about politicians are with us,
but they're not. So we're gonna do it ourselves. Yeah,
that's all you need. The lady's done more anarchism than
your your average internet anarchist who's out there fed posting
every day. Yeah all right, Yeah that's really all you need.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, well we're gonna take one more ad break.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
That's all you really need is advertisements.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
And it goes a little something like this, and we're back.
I feel warmed in my belly by those advertisements.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, hopere do you buy something that you don't need?

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, I hopefully you skip past them.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
But yeah, you know, maybe double tap the old headphone button.
It normally goes twenty seconds.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
See the problem is that I like, I don't usually
I listen to a lot of podcasts, and I don't
have cooler zone media because I have Android.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah so I have to.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Yeah, I know, so I the ads come home.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Remember if you tag I write, Okay, if you have
any issues regarding the.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that'll that will definitely work.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
And so sometimes when I'm like, because I listen to
a lot of podcasts while I'm like doing like woodworking
or like yeah yeah doing some of my hands. Yeah,
and so I like am like, I don't want to
put down the saw in order.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeahs, So I do it with my with my left
earlone against my shoulder. It's how I skip them. Yeah,
because I didn't have coolest own media either, but maybe
you do, which you only a diversion about ship that
doesn't bother you, Lucky, Lucky.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
We will have a lot more reporting. This isn't the
end of the episode, but we'll have a lot more
reporting about Minneapolis and the structures that people are building,
and Minneapolis and Saint Paul and the outlying areas that
someone kind of correctly checked me on the fact that
I keep saying Minneapolis, it's just my day. Yeah, and
things are different, but things are different blocked by block,

(41:41):
but a lot of that we really want to kind
of do right and we're going to write scripted, but
we're just really kind of in it right now and
really want to talk about this and what part of
the reason we want to talk about this so soon
because things happen really fast, and just that everyone we've
talked to has told us that they they want people
to know. You know, the horrors are getting out on

(42:03):
some level, which is good. It is actually good that
people are learning all these horrible things, but a lot
of them, the scale of the resistance isn't getting out,
and the efficacy of the resistance isn't getting out, And
people want people to know because they want people to
know that they can do it too.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah. Like, so someone had like like a shocking these
Someone had a stupid opinion on the internet. Someone had
said that, like talking about this makes it dangerous cities people. No,
first of all, I.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Mean there are things that we don't know that we
shouldn't we wouldn't say, but like sure there are things
that yeah, yeah, there are things that we wouldn't ask
about or that people wouldn't give us interviews about if
you thought they were dangerous.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Right, But like, what makes it safe is that everyone
is doing it right. What makes us safe is that
there are more of us and what people asked us
to do with share this because they are safe for
review do it too. Yeah, right, there are hens of
millions of people who were just as outraged as that

(43:04):
older lady that we met on the first day. And
what keeps that lady safe and your neighbor safe and
her neighbor safe, and people who you've never met safe
and yourself? Yeah, and yourself is you doing it too? Right?
Like if it stops here, if you can't grab migrants
off the street here, then you can't grab dissidence off

(43:25):
the street somewhere else, right, And.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Like you know, we've seen all over graffiti and you know,
we saw a huge piece of graffiti at the ice
building base.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yeah, I read it into the mic. Actually it was
my mic was working.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
First it came to the undocumented, and I said nothing
because I wasn't undocumented. Then they came for the Somalis,
and I said nothing because I was not Somali. Then
they came for the activists, and I said nothing, for
I was not an activist.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Then they came for me.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
I am so grateful that we live in a generation
that has read that poem.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, you know, and seem to be taking it to harm.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, and more people have than I thought. And I
think I think all the time about solidarity shocked to
know this.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
You know.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Obviously, the moment that makes me cry on the most
regular basis is, of course, the charge of the Rohrom,
when the riders of Rohan ride to Gondor to face
the anyway, even though Gondor wasn't there for them. Where
was Gondor? But part of the reason that I love
solidarity so much is because, like I keep joking that
I'm going to write the Misanthropic Introvert Guide to Socialism

(44:34):
m hm, because like I misanthropic introvert at that heart, right,
I also love people, right, yeah, and I most I
love most people over there.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
And I grew up not proud to say, pretty self interested, right,
and I was like very lost in my own head
and kind of selfish. And and I very quickly esuponed
as meeting anarchists and meeting people who believed in responsibility
and freedom was like, oh, I am safer and more

(45:08):
free and more able to express my full self if
I am part of a community of solidarity.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
And so even though in the immediate moment it is
more dangerous, like there's the old joke about like you
don't have to be faster than the barrier. You just
have to be faster than your friend.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
That is the single worst idea in the world.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, because then bandstart eating people.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Right. So if there is a monster and you can
outrun someone, so you think you're safe, you now have
to be the fastest person.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah. Yeah, right, you're safe until you're not.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
To be part of a community that turns around and
fights the monster might be more dangerous for yourself in
the immediate sense. And being someone who stands up is that, Yeah,
it is that saying like, well, even though in the
short term is more dangerous for me to stand up,

(46:03):
by having been participated in a society where we stand
up for each other, I am safer.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
And so even if that means like my literal death,
like I will have been safer, even if you get
like weirdly utilitarian about.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
It, yeah, and aggregate, you are safer. Yeah, and so
is everyone else.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
And so it's not a it's not a charity, it's
a it's a solidarity.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah, No, like solidarity is in a sense it's in
your own self interest, because we want to live in
a world where people will take care of each other, right,
not just better, you know, like yeah, just in case
we need to be taken care of. Right, But because
I often think about that, I think it's John Stuart
mill Right asked not for him the bell tolls, The
bell tolls for thee. Like what he's saying there is

(46:48):
not what's that bell ringing. What he's saying is I
participate in humanity, and so when humanity is devalued in
his case talking about bell unary bell, right, when humanity
is devalued, my humanity is devalued. Yeah, And therefore, in
this case where the bell is ringing for me, I

(47:09):
am a human and when they undermine our common humanity,
therefore they undermine this thing that I have. And I
won't let them do that because I participate in humanity,
and so, as it happens, does a person who's been
subjected to inhuman violence. And so I will stand up
for humanity, and in doing so, I will stand up
for making a humanity that will stand up for me. Yeah,

(47:32):
And like I think about a lot because John McCain
wrote it in an obituary for the last American Yeah,
Lincoln Brigade volunteer. And I don't agree with John McCain
on anything really, yeah, right, but I do on that
and like I was thinking about that today when I
saw what would Ronald Reagan do?

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Guy. Yeah, because Joan mckaye is the man who believe something.
He believed things I don't agree with.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Yah, a lot of racist shit. Yeah. John McCain clearly
thought that the Lincoln Brigadios were on the right side
of history, right, right, And like Winston Churchill's nephew fort
in the International Brigades, right, folks with whom I share
very little in terms of politics. A lot of British
upper class people fought in the International Brigades. Yeah, they
probably weren't anarchists, but they were anti fascists. They were

(48:17):
better anti fascists than the people who stayed at home.
And yeah, you couldn't tweet in nineteen thirty six, but
they would have been if they could. Yeah, right, because
they were willing to put their bodies on the line. Yea.
And many of them died. Many of them are buried
in Smain, and Spanish people remember them fondly. Right. They
have annual ceremonies to remember the sacrifice they made before

(48:38):
any of the people who are attending those ceremonies are alive.
And if more people had said, yeah, I'll go right
like the bells ringing for me. Yeah, I'm not going
to stand for a world where this happens. I'm going
to fight for one where it doesn't. Then we might
not have had the Holocaust, right, we might not have
had the Second World War. We might not have had Stalingrad.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
And also all the people who found Stalingrad are the
reasons that didn't get worse. Yeah, yeah, right, World War
two could have been worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it would
have been worse if people hadn't fought.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Yeah right, yeah, we had stanning Gred, so the Holocaust
wasn't more so that Western Europe doesn't speak German. Yeah right,
Like every single one of those people who stood up
to stop that probably wished that they'd stood up earlier,
And every single one of those people who stood up
earlier probably wish that more people had joined them.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
I think about that a lot. It's not news to
anyone who listened to this that I wrote my PhD
understand a civil Warrant, think about it every day. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
If you wanted the non dramatic version of all this,
you're listening to the wrong too podcast.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, But I think a lot about like
what we should learn from that? Right. I translated a
piece for a zene as Strangers in the Tangled.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Will Oh Yeah, it's a publishing collective that I work with.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
And I translated a piece by a Belgian anarchist who's
referred to as a constellation of acronyms. Right, but Charles
Riddle was his birth name. Louis mill A Vega was
his name he lived with for most of his life.
And he wrote this piece called Refuting the Legend, where
he talks about like what he feels that he owes

(50:10):
the people who died, right, And I think about that lot,
Like the thing that he comes up with is that
he owes the people who died the truth so that
we can learn from it and do better. And he
shouldn't just make them into heroes. He should make them
into real people with flaws, so that people can understand
their flaws and they can know what we can do better.
And I think about that a lot. Right, so many
people have gone before us, so many brave people have

(50:33):
gone before us, and we owe it to them to learn, right,
and I think we have. Like when I was thinking
about this, when that older lady said to us, all,
my father was in the Second World War, Like, and
I think about it again when I saw the poem today,
like we have to learn from that experience, right, and
you'd have to stop it now, not when it comes
for you. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
And the fact that we talked to multiple people, some
of their families had survived the Holocaust.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yeah, the reason they were in America in many cases
say grandparents have come here to feed the.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Who are making comparisons to that? And you're like, they're
they're not doing that lightly. And I feel like almost,
you know, when we talk with the sort of grandiose things,
I'm like I almost feel like I'm like, oh, we're
talking about people with whistles. We're like, yeah, but we're not.
I mean we are. We're talking about people with whistles.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Let's hope it stops a whistles.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Right, And that is what is effective right now? And
it like is you know, it's spreading something and it
it's going to be so interesting to see what comes
of this. Everything will be changing, you know, there's no
reason to specifically set up everything that you all do
in whatever city or town you live in exactly the
same as they do it here, but there's like so
many things to learn from them, and more than anything else,

(51:44):
the thing to learn from them is like you just
show up. Yeah, it's not that every single person in
the city has quit their job to do this full time, right,
Obviously economies don't function like that. But you don't have
to quit your job to walk outside your house when
you hear someone yell help, which is what is happening

(52:04):
with whistles and honking, right, and just spreading a culture
of we take care of each other and neighborliness, right,
And that is like, weirdly, fundamentally it is an American
cultural idea. We're just bad at it. We've kind of
forgotten a lot of it. Yeah, you know, it's like

(52:24):
because obviously isolation is a big part of American individualism
is a big part of it. But like everyone's a
little bit happy when they get to like, oh, you
need a you need a lawnmower, or.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Yeah, when I get to fix my neighbor's truck, Yeah, yeah,
I love that. Yeah, get out and give some moment
a change.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
So and one of the things that we to to
maybe kind of end on, and the thing that I
want to end on, you know, we're asking people like
what they wish other people knew, what other people could know.
And there's a couple of things that people mentioned, and
we'll write more about this and pup podcasts more about this.
But one of the things that people mentioned is they
wish they had started earlier about knowing their neighbors. Obviously

(53:04):
it wasn't too late. It's the whole like like with
any kind of preparedness, right, You're like, you wish you
so heady, Yeah, but you know now is the best
you know, yesterday is the best time, and today is
the next best time. Yeah, right, And like just literally
knowing them, not necessarily becoming their friends, Like a lot
of people are like, no, I wasn't friends with them.
I just sort of knew them, you know. And then
also one of the other things that people just as

(53:27):
another thing people mentioned that they wanted people to know
is that when you build these networks, you need to
build autonomy into them at every level. You need to
build the idea that the person who is following Ice
is at the end of the day in charge of
how they do that. Yeah, Like even if you know,

(53:47):
you know, people are like, oh Ice is over here,
you can't say, everyone, go do this. You can someone
can suggest that, yeah, right, But having built autonomy into
these nets works makes them so much stronger, and in
an interesting way, partly because it makes them less predictable

(54:08):
to ice.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Right, because you never know what someone's going to, what
they're comfortable when they're not comfortable.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
With Yeah, So like that is basically a diversity of
tactics makes movements strong. If they don't know how we
are going to behave they can't you know, and not
just like if everyone's rowdy, no, like, are going to
be real combination and when the rowdy and non rowdy
support people support each other. Anyway, those are the kind

(54:35):
of last thoughts I have before I actually sit down
and look at all my notes and write something real.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Yeah, I think for me, it's everyone here said that
like that. It was funny when people were like, we
were like, how do you start organizing? They were like,
you know, last July we had a blog party and
a potluck. Yeah, and it just seemed to be just
a thing until it became the foundation of thing that
exists now. Right. Yeah, if there's one thing you can do,

(55:03):
it won't cost you any money. It will take you
a little bit of time and it will probably make
your life better. It is go out on your block
and meet your neighbors. And I know that can be
hard for people. Yeah, I know it can be scary.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
But we're talking like trans motherfuckers who are doing this too.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's people who who have more
at stake than I do. Yeah, right, Like I'm the
cisgender white man. For people listening, the best thing you
can do is start to form community, and it could
be in so many ways. One thing that I really
like to do is like I have, throughout my life
developed certain skills and certain hobbies, and I love to

(55:42):
share those with people. You know, if there is someone
in my neighborhood they've got a bike outside, they're trying
to fix a puncha, I'm going to go help them
because I've done that ten thousand times.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Right. Whatever it is that is your thing that you
like to talk about, that you're good at, that you
know about, think of a way you could share that
with people. Maybe you like to bake, maybe you like
to knit, maybe whatever, it doesn't matter, It doesn't.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Oh, there's people with like free hats and scarves at
these things.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you could just be the person who
knits the scarves. That's your way to contribute. If that's
your way to meet your neighbors, right, put on a
knitting circle, to put on a baking thing. I like
to grow plants, so I'm always growing plants, and I'm
stoked when my neighbors stop buy and say, hey, I
really like your basil plant and I want to make
which is how they pronounce it when they yes, they
do yeah when they say to me, because otherwise I

(56:29):
look at them and say, get out of my home,
you know. And if they want to make something, I
give them some, right, or if they say, hey, I
just need a couple of tomatoes, and I noticed, of
course I'm going to give them right. Whatever that is,
your neighbors away for a couple of weeks. Hey, do
you want me to look after the house? Your car
won't start? Let me jump it, right. I have one
of those little jumper packs. I love to use a

(56:50):
little jumper pack.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Oh yeah, if you have a tool and someone needs
to the tool, having a multi tool on you is
the best way to feel good all the time because
someone's like, oh I wish I had a rent, or
I wish yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah, and there you go like Superman. Yeah, do those
things now. I know we have Margaret and I both
hop on about this, but like, this is how you
build a better world. It starts on your block. It
starts by building a better neighborhood, building a better street,
building a better apartment complex. Live in an apartment complex.
It could be hard to see people in apartment complexes

(57:22):
because people sort of get in the lift and put
the look at the floor. But a little sign up
just be like, hey, we're going to have a pot. Look, Hey,
the little bit in between the pavement and the road's
kind of fucked up. Anyone else want to help me
put some plants in it this springtime? You know. Yeah,
whatever it is that is your thing, start using that
to build community, because it's community that's going to get

(57:43):
you through this.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Yeah, And that's like, you know, I don't always like
targeting people, but I just when I'm in a new place,
I'm just like, hey, I just moved here. Nice to
meet you. I'm so and so. Do you need my
phone number? And I can do the kind of like,
you know, I want you to have my phone number
because I want to call me instead of the cops.
I'm being too loud, right, But like you're going to

(58:05):
make a little bit of a faux pas in certain
communities by being like, hey, we should know each other. Yeah,
but usually just to hey we should know each other
isn't actually offending as many people as you think.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
Yeah, Like I know a lot of people don't live
in cities too, or some people were like I grew
up very very rural. Yeah, but actually like we had
to know each other because like there wasn't really anyone
else you could go, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
In my mind, I'm like when I live rural, and
I'm like, that's how you have to know people.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Like yeah, like I remember someone's horse fell in. Wealthy
people had a swimming pool, Like yeah, I lifted the
horse out by myself.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Oh yeah, my neighbors pick out the pools walking out
of my property. Yeah, it's not as big of a
deal as lowers falling in, but just constantly my neighbors
like my pig got out again.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
Yeah, like like we there there are a million reasons
why in rural areas, or I'd hope you were you
would know people anyway. But again, like hey I'm so
and so I just moved here. I just wanted to say, Hi,
maybe you bake something whatever, take something go, but most
people aren't going to be mad at you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
Well that's kind of our preliminary stuff and we're going
to be doing so much more with it, but we
just kind of wanted to get some ideas out while
we were both in the same place in this shockingly
beautiful city. Yeah, around people who are so fucking inspiring, Like, yeah,
everyone we talked to is so inspiring. And even if

(59:27):
the like the tragedy of it, you know, I feel
so weird being like, here's the hopeful stuff. When I'm
like we're describing it very horrible land of kidnappers, We're like,
it's just like literally kidnappers have descended upon the city
and like to kidnap people.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
That will fund the kidnappings.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Yeah, for cool people to cool stuff. That's the core
idea of the show is that when people, you know,
it's the intro, it's when people are trying to do
bad things, there's people trying to do good things. And
so that's why, uh, it's taking a break from history
content talk about something that's just fucking happening right now.
It is cool people doing cool stuff up here and
or maybe more than cool because it's freezing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Yeah, freezing people doing cool stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Yeah, feel free to workshop at home, Yeah, a better
way to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I'm coming back from a
place more hopeful than I left. I know, that's my
my thing that I do. But like, I really believe
that in the darkest times we can build beautiful things.
And I don't believe that any less after being here.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Yeah, that's great thing about being a Goth. I'm beauty
and the dark stuff. That's like. Anyway, we will talk
to you all just for me next week and for
James who knows, probably freaking tomorrow. Yeah, a couple of
days here, yeah yeah, yeah, that my job was hard anyway. Yeah,
good luck with everyone, and take care of your neighbors

(01:00:55):
and fuck ice.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Thanks everyone for listening to all of this. And if
at the end of this you are thinking that you
would like to help some of the people who are
on the ground, we ask people that we trusted on
the ground to provide us with links to different fundraisers
And basically I never share a fundraiser unless I can
support it with my whole heart, and I would support
it with my own wallet. The links themselves are going

(01:01:22):
to be in the show notes, but there's a couple
different ones. There's rent support for Neighbors and Phillips, which
is a neighborhood rent support for neighbors in Central Rent
support for Neighbors and Powderhorn Supplies for political art making,
Protective gear for legal observers, diapers and menstrual supplies is
another fundraiser. Abolish ice shirts including the shirt I am

(01:01:44):
wearing right now as I record this, North Star, Frontline
Street Medics and the Twin Cities swol A Tariot Aile
Fund and they'll be links to both Venmo and cash
app for that one. Anyway, Thank you to everyone and
take care of each other.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of
cool Zone Media.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website
foolzonmedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.