6,000 LETTERS, THOUSANDS IN DONATIONS, BILLBOARDS RENTED, LUIGI MANGIONE FANS WONT STOP

Luigi Mangione's legal team created a website for the accused killer, they say “due to the extraordinary volume of inquiries and outpouring of support.

His attorneys say the website — luigimangioneinfo.com — was created to ”share case updates, “dispel information” and publish letters from Mangione while he’s incarcerated.

He writes “I am overwhelmed by — and grateful for — everyone who has written me to share their stories and express their support.”  That support include thousands donations for his legal fees.

Luigi Mangione's defense team describes his "beautiful, promising life" as "derailed" by the murder charges against him.

This phrasing is not highlighted as a saying from Mangione's groupies, but as a phrase coming from Mangione's attorney as part of a legal motion filed to dismiss the federal case or get the death penalty tossed.

As part of an evidence suppression hearing in the upcoming trial of Luigi Mangione, prosecutors play a 911 call placed by the manager of a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania.

The McDonald's manager is not identified, and the hearing is the first time the 911 call is played in public.

The manager is apologetic as she tells the 911 operator she tried the non-emergency line first and continues taking orders as she tells the operator, "I have a customer here some other customers were suspicious of because he looks like the CEO shooter in New York.

"And they're just really upset and come to me, and I'm like, I can't approach him."

The 911 operator, Emily States, testifies and is heard asking for a description of the individual, with the manager replying,"The only thing you can see is the eyebrows."

Mangione's defense attorney, Marc Agnifilo, objects to the 911 call being played, but the judge says he is allowing the call for this hearing.

Mangione enters the courtroom in shackles, but the judge allows Mangione to sit unshackled and take notes at the defense table.

Long lines outside the courthouse filled with women and men supporters trying to enter the hearing, hoping to get a glimpse of the alleged CEO murderer.

Mangione's defense team is trying to prevent several key pieces of evidence from being allowed at trial, like the comment about the 3-D printed pistol.

Angifilo claims conversations with correction officers were illegally coerced and should not be allowed.

The defense claims Mangione is questioned for 20 minutes by Altoona Police Officer Joseph Detwiler without being read his Miranda rights.

Therefore, prosecutors should not be allowed to introduce any testimony about statements made by Mangione to police.

United States District Judge Margaret Garnett says she will rule on the defense’s request to drop death penalty charges and the exclusions at a later hearing.

If the murder charge remains, Garnett a trial could start in late December or early January 2027. If charges dropped, Mangione's trial might begin this October.

Mangione has pleaded not guilty to all charges. Mangione’s next hearing date for Jan. 30.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace spending thousands and thousands of
dollars for billboards along the street, tens of thousands of
dollars a donation, nearly ten thousand letters. I'm not talking

(00:21):
about a rock star or a movie star. I'm talking
about Luigi Mangioni. Fans They're crazy. I wonder how Brian
Thompson's widow and orphaned boys feel about the billboards, the
donations and the letters. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
I want to thank you for being with us as

(00:45):
the suspected killer of the United Healthcare CEO heads to court. Amazingly,
his support amongst mostly female fans has not died. When
Mangioni arrived at a Manhattan courthouse for hearings, a billboard
featuring a guy named Michael Kissling was mounted on a

(01:09):
truck driving around outside. Who is Kissling? He is a
thirty two year old amputee who blames United Healthcare for
denying treatments he said would have saved his leg. Now,
Kissling does not condone violence, but he does say the

(01:31):
shooting dead of the CEO Brian Thompson did draw attention
to the many obstacles he and many others have faced
getting insurance coverage. Kissling makes a point by saying, if
he Mingionie's Malcolm X, then I'm emulating MLK Martin Luther King.

(01:55):
Of course, United Healthcare disputed a. Kissling's account, and I'm
certainly not defending United Healthcare in this. What I am
supporting is the right to a trial. What happened that
early morning when Brian Thompson was gunned down on the street.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
A masked gunman shoots dead the United Healthcare CEO in
midtown Manhattan, and urgent search ensues for the suspect. Last
scene entering Central.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Park, marriage secrets being revealed as this health boss worth
millions of dollars is gunned down and open around the public.
What do we make of clues left behind? Cryptic and
odd clues? For instance, bullets found actually had been inscribed

(02:48):
with letters on them. A cell phone had been left behind.
Is there DNA on a water bottle? Was this a pro?
A silencer was used and in the middle of the assassination,
the gun jams and seemingly the pro shooter simply adjusted

(03:09):
and continued firing. Everyone. Thank you for being with us.
If this can happen in public. What are we to
think of it? Well, take a listen to what the
chief of Detectives has to say.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
This morning, at six forty six am, patrol offices from
Midtown North Preestinct responded to a nine to one one
call of a person shot in front of the Hilton
Hotel located at thirteen thirty five Avenue of the Americas.
This is between West fifty third Street and West fifty
fourth Street. At six forty eight am, officers arrive and
find the victim, Brian R.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Thompson, a fifty.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
Year old male, on the sidewalk in front of the Hilton,
with gunshot wounds to his back and leg.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
You know, the way the sheoter handled the weapon, the
use of a silencer, the mask, the lying in wait
all indicates a professional hit. But a pro wouldn't want
to be caught. A pro would do everything not to
get caught. So then why we're there, especially engraved bullets

(04:08):
with cryptic messages on them? Mm mmmm, it sounds like
a fifth grade girl riding a crime thriller. Something's way
off with this. Joining me and all Star panel to
make sense of what we know right now. But first
straight out to investigative reporter Lauren Conlin joining US co
host Primetime Crime on YouTube and you can find her

(04:30):
at Popcrime dot tv. Who has gone to the scene
and investigated Lauren, what can you tell us, Yes.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
Nancy, on the street, the entire street of West fifty
third Street was blocked off. There was plane clothes detectives
as well as uniformed officers basically not saying anything. I
asked questions.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
I asked witnesses if.

Speaker 4 (04:52):
They heard anything, and the parking lot attendants were actually
there earlier that morning, but they said, you know, due
to the silencer, they didn't hear anything.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Tell me your understanding, what you learned of what happened,
Starting at the beginning.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
Starting at the beginning, I learned that Brian Thompson arrived
in New York Monday. Now he was not staying at
the Hilton. He was staying at a hotel across the street.
He was set to speak at eight am at their
annual investors conference, and he was arriving early at six
forty five. So as he walked into the entrance of

(05:30):
the Hilton, it was revealed by NYPD that this gunman
was allegedly lying in wait before he shot him.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Take a listen to Chief Detective Joe Kenny.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Mister Thompson was removed by ems or Roosevelt Hospital, where
he was pronounced dead at seven to twelve am. Mister
Thompson is the CEO of United Healthcare and resides in Minnesota.
Detectives from Nightwatch, Midtown North Detective Squad, and Manhattan South
Homicad responded to the scene and began their investigation.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
We're learning a lot. I want to go straight out
to Bill Daily joining us from New York. Former FBI
investigator forends At photography international security expert. Bill, thank you
for being with us. You see the video steals we're showing.
I don't know that a pro would have done this
right in front of a surveillance video.

Speaker 5 (06:20):
Well, exactly right, Nancy. Is that you know people throw
on this thing about you know professional hitmen. I mean
those are those are out of the movies. I mean,
this could be somebody who trained, who thought it out. Well,
obviously he's done a lot of reconnaissance and research, but
we're talking about professional hit people. That's something made in
the movies. I would say, Nancy, A couple of things
I'm quite familiar with this area. Being a New Yorker

(06:40):
and having worked on the streets of New York for
what a number of years, is that this is actually
the side entrance the missus Thompson was apparently staying around
the corner. We believe that they marry a hotel, which
actually gave him a couple of avenues of approach to
the hotel. This is the side interest the managers on
sixth Avenue. So for this gunman to know that he
was going to be me down the side street at

(07:02):
this time suggested to me there was some other reconnaissance
inside information that he knew that he was at another hotel.
He wasn't saying at the Hilton that he could be
coming down this street. Tompson could have easy walked around
seventh Avenue to come down fifty fifth Street or another
street to grab a cup of coffee, but he didn't.
And so there are a couple of things out here
that kind of jump out to me that are really
concerning with your guard to how much information was known

(07:23):
about the specific movements of mister Thompson that morning.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Bill Daly, I know exactly what you mean about that location,
But wouldn't it have been easy for the perp the
killer to be waiting in the lobby waiting for the victim,
Brian Thompson, to walk out. He didn't have to be
lying in wait at that side entrance. He could have
simply followed him. He did come up behind him.

Speaker 5 (07:48):
Yeah, I mean, there are a couple of things here
in Nancy, that is true. And in fact, if he
knew if he was going to be speaking of the conference,
he didn't have to be waiting outside. He could have
done it just in the lobby, upstairs, in an elevator
or some other other place where he knew there was
kind of kind of cool chow point where he would
have had to travel through in order to get to
the conference. The other thing is that which kind of
points to perhaps something more someone from the area or

(08:09):
from the region, is the fact that mister Simpson lives
out in Minnesota. The day to day he comes to
and from work, he comes to and from his home,
he goes perhaps to see maybe his children's sporting events,
who knows what. But those are kind of open areas,
other areas where he could have been a target. But
yet this was done in New York City, where he
doesn't live, where he was visiting where this person would
have only had a couple of days opportunity for any

(08:31):
kind of reconnaissance and kind of staging this event. And
so it kind of leads me to suggest that this
person chose New York either because it's more difficult. You
can get lost in the city, you can do things
like this, it could disappear into Central Park and perhaps
try to hide your trails, you know, or it was
a matter of convenience that the person was in and
around the area and didn't have to travel to Minnesota.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
You're right. The victim in town to speak at an
investor conference.

Speaker 6 (08:54):
Listen, the victim was in New York City to speak
at an investor conference. It appears a suspect was lying
in wait for several minutes, and as the victim was
walking to the conference hotel, the suspect approached from behind
and fired several rounds, striking the victim at least once
in the back and at least once in the right calf.

(09:14):
Many people passed the suspect, but he appeared to wait
for his intended target.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Well, it's clearly targeted, Bill Daly. There is no robbery,
there is no car jacking, there is no sex attack,
so it's targeted. Can we look at the photo of
the suspect's face? Now, we keep hearing we don't know

(09:39):
much about him, but I can tell you right now
he's white. Number one. He knows enough to cover his face.
But I see that he is not wearing gloves. To
Lauren Colin, what can you tell me about a discarded
water bottle?

Speaker 4 (09:54):
The discarded water bottle, Nancy, was found in the alleyway,
which is between fifty and fifty fourth Street. It's the
zig Field Ballroom Alleyway.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
A pro would not leave behind a water bottle. A
pro wouldn't even be drinking anything right before you've murdered somebody.

Speaker 5 (10:13):
Exactly right, and Ncy, And go to my suggestion, this
person orchestrated this and pre planned it. I thought it out.
You speak about perhaps the weapon a little bit later on.
All these things tying to somebody who is knowledgeable about
only what they were doing, but certainly not a professional.
That's somebody we might see kind of portrayed in the movies.
These people would be much more sub rosa about their efforts,

(10:35):
would kind of not be seen beforehand. And I'm going
to suggest to you is that besides this video and
these images we have now as that police are looking
to kind of put together both the timeline and his trail,
there'll be some more coming out and we'll we'll have
some more facial images. Perhaps the DNA may help, but
as we all know, working these cases, because you need
to have something to compare it to, you need to

(10:55):
have some database to compared to, or using ancestral DNA,
perhaps hire this person back to someone else and work
through that angle. So even though we have all these things,
and it could be who knows, maybe fragmented fingerprints on
the bot casings or other evidence left behind, but again
you need something to compare it to.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
What we know is that the shooter arrived at the
location on foot about five minutes prior to the victim's arrival.
He stands alongside the building line as numerous other people
and pedestrians pass him by. From video, we see at
six forty four am, the victim is walking alone towards
the Hilton after exiting his hotel across the street. We
believe the victim was headed to the Hilton Hotel to

(11:36):
attend the United Health Group investors conference that was scheduled
to start at eight am.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Let me look at that stance one more time where
the shooter is pointing pointing the gun at the victim.
You know, everybody on the panel jump in, but Bill
Danley look at that. It looks like someone has been
watching too many movies and they think that's a profession
killer stance. You see that right there. I'm just telling you, Look,

(12:06):
he doesn't have on gloves. He's been hanging out, drinking
from a water bottle that he leaves behind. I also
understand a cell phone has been left behind. And then
he gets on a city bike. It reminds me of
a bank robbery I prosecuted where the purp had a
bike waiting around the corner. He was anything but a

(12:27):
pro and he pedaled off just like this guy is doing.
What do you make of that?

Speaker 5 (12:34):
Bial Yeah, all these things kind of add up to
the fact that this person, again gave some thought. But
yet it's about quote professional I mean, we really don't
have these kind of quote professional hitment throughout the country.
Maybe the mafia does, but we're not talking about people
knocking off executive So this doesn't happen in the United States.
Perhaps overseas, and perhaps a concern when people travel the
high risk locations, but certainly not in New York City.

(12:55):
But I probably tell you is that both that stance
is kind of a suggestion that the person thought they
knew what they were doing, but also the fact that
this gun jam the jam several times apparently rights at
each shot. According to police, they believe that it jammed
maybe because there was a silencer on the front, a
silencer that perhaps caused the jam to occur. But he
did clear it very quickly and efficiently, So he's somebody

(13:18):
who did do some practice training with that weapon beforehand.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, well, Lauren Colin, the gun jammed more than once.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
Apparently it jammed between shots, but you know that didn't
stop him, so he kept shooting after.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
He saw The answer is yes, Okay, that's telling me
a lot right there, daily, daily, daily, A pro is
going to take a gun that jams between every shot?

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Really?

Speaker 5 (13:43):
Yeah, Well, I'm going to some of the forensic guess
versus that by using that silencer, and again, silencers are
nothings that you were supposed to legally have, so if
it was homemade, it could have caused more of this
kind of malfunction of the weapon. But again, it did
seem as though calmly he cleared that weapon, he was
able to pull a slide on the.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Top daily did you say homemade? Look, this is whoo,
this is melan. This is not a pro I don't
even know where that came from. A homemade silence, homemade silencer,
but come on, man, a homemade silencer that doesn't work,

(14:25):
A pretend professional killer stance, drinking a water bottle and
leaving it behind and hopping on a bike without gloves
and taking off no no, uh uh, I gotta figure
this thing out, guys. Why was a health ceo worth
millions of dollars gunned down in public? Early early morning?

(14:51):
Many people saying it's a.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Pro killer to shoot it?

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Then flees on foot northbound into an alleyway between fifty
fourth Street and fifty fifth Street. Once at West fifty
fifth Street, the shooter continues to walk westbound on the
Avenue in Americas, where he gets onto an electric e
city bike and rides northbound on the Avenue Americas towards
Central Park. At six forty eight am, we have the
shooter riding this bike into Central Park at Center Drive.

(15:16):
We're still tracking video. The last we see with him
on that bike is in Central Park. At the scene,
we recover three live nine millimeters rounds and three discharged
nine milimeters shell casings. The motor for this murder currently
is unknown, but based on the evidence we have so far,
it does appear that the victim was specifically targeted. But
at this point we do not know why. This does

(15:38):
not appear to be a random act of violence.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Okay, I know that, I know it's not random. Joining
me high profile lawyer BERNARDA. Vielona, New York criminal defense attorney.
This is her beat. She is also a former prosecutor. Bernardo,
thank you for being with us. What do you make
of it so far? Because not only did the pro
assassin lead behind the discharged nine millimere shellcasings, they were

(16:03):
engraved with three cryptic words. I mean, it's straight out
of a crime novel and another saying, BERNARDA. Anybody that
knows how to type goog l E can find out
this guy was speaking where and at what time?

Speaker 7 (16:21):
Yeah, but I still think there's an inside job because
in a sense of they could have known where he
was speaking, but they wouldn't have known exactly what time
he would have been leaving out of his hotel because
remember this shooter had only been waiting about five minutes,
so he had to have had some kind of inside
information to know the exact time that Brian Thompson would
have been leaving his hotel. Look, all of this looks

(16:43):
very shady. I don't think it's a professional kill at all,
because number one, believing of the showcases and the bullets
there and then jumping on a bike. I think there's
a lot more to this. I don't see that there's
going to be an arrest anytime soon, though.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Hold on, just mom on that daily bill daily with
me former FBI investigator and joining us from New York,
intimately familiar with the ins and outs the alleyways where
this happened. The guy then goes to Central Park. That
was a pretty good move, and it's not that far
from where the shooting was by bike. But he goes

(17:20):
into Central Park, which is blanketed with surveillance videos, I mean,
and we can follow his drail. He had to ditch
the bike somewhere. I think that we're going to find
out where he leaves the bike. And again no gloves.
As you said earlier, of course you got to have
something to compare it to. If he's not in the

(17:40):
DNA or the APHIST database, we don't have anything to
match it too. But that said, can we just agree
this is not a pro Yeah, I surely agree it's
not a pro.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
I also think that there's a there are probably kind
of breadcrumbs left behind, is that you know if this
was connected with either the business because of see that
either of the had been a customer who was certainly
totally upset and obsessed with this individual, or perhaps a
former employee. That could have been a number of things.
But I think there you have to go back and

(18:14):
start looking at with their threats against the company. Apparently
according to the victim's wife there were, and if there were,
who was making those and what was the steps?

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Start up with what you're just saying, Bill Daily, Lauren Conlin. Now,
according to one person there have been threats on the
victim's line, and that is his wife. Were those threats
ever reported to la law enforcement? Nancy?

Speaker 4 (18:40):
Those threats were never reported to law enforcement?

Speaker 1 (18:43):
With me also is Scott Iiker founding member. I can't
say this enough of the FBI's Cellular Analysis Survey team.
Can I just say he didn't just fall off the
turnip truck people. Iiker, if I was going to pick
him off, I would go somewhere with a silencer and
wait out in the middle of nowhere, right let his

(19:06):
body lay there for three or four hours before anybody
figures anything out. So why intentionally find him in New
York City?

Speaker 8 (19:15):
I agree, there's a lot of other places that you
could have done this murder, but there's a lot of
benefits of doing it in a crowded city also. I mean,
if you think about it, you might be able to
mix in with the regular people walking to and from work,
cars and everything like that. He didn't think about all
the cameras in the area. He didn't think about all
the people that might see a different things. And obviously

(19:37):
I agree with the other gentleman that says I don't
think this guy is a professional. I do think he
has some training. I mean, I was on the FBI
SWAT team. I shot twice a week, and I can
see that type of stance that he had some training
for him to do that malfunction. Clear clear that gon
shoot again, clear it, clear it. That takes training time.

(20:00):
So I think, at least in my mind, he's made
a lot of mistakes, but I don't think he's a professional.
I totally agree with that. But he has had some drink.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
And we are learning more from Chief of Detectives Joe Kenney.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
From speaking to other employees that traveled with him to
New York. Doesn't seem that he had these security detail.
He left the hotel by himself, was walking, didn't seem
like he had any issues at all. So I don't
think he did not have his security detail.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Lauren Conlin correct me if I'm wrong. But wasn't there
just a firefighter's pension fund that sued the victim because
he dumped about thirty one percent of his stock made
fifteen million dollars just before everything went south, right, and
there's a complaint about that. Yeah, that's happening. The wife

(20:50):
says there's death threats. He's worth millions of dollars and
he doesn't have security detail.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
Yes, his net worth is forty three million dollars. And
not only that, I found a plethora of lawsuits. He
was accused of creating an algorithm to deny patients' coverage.
So I found quite a few lawsuits there. And then additionally,
there was a data breach A few I believe it
was February of twenty twenty four, where many many people

(21:21):
were at risk and not happy.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace at the very beginning after
the murder, Mangioni somehow managed to attract an amazing legion
of fans, fascinations, sympathy. They flooded social media with memes,
they sell t shirts. But even now, a full year later,

(21:53):
they're still hot and heavy on the trail supporting the
twenty seven year old A League grad amazingly. While Mangioni
claims he suffered from chronic back pain, although the photos
I see are him frolicking on the beach and actually
lifting up girls and tickling them. He did not have

(22:16):
United Healthcare insurance, so I'm not sure how he targeted
Brian Thompson. But this is what happened. Listen to this.
It's just like a fifth grade girl writes an action thriller,
or tries to listen.

Speaker 9 (22:29):
Police have released a new chilling detail in the assassination
style shooting. Three live rounds and three shellcasings recovered from
the crime scene, and cops are now saying there are
inscriptions on the shellcasings the words deny, defend, and depose
were engraved on the bullets.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
So the words deny, defend, and depose were engraved on
the bullets. By who the local jeweler joining me right
now is a ballistics expert. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
and star of a hit series Body Bags with Joe

(23:07):
Scott Morgan. Joe Scott Really, okay, I can't hammer this
enough a pro What did they write it in? Fancy cursivey, defend,
depos Seriously, that sounds like the ransom note left behind
in John Benay a small foreign faction once one hundred
and eighteen thousand dollars stop.

Speaker 10 (23:28):
What's really fascinating about this, Nancy, is the fact that
they've got three spent casings that are on the ground,
and then they have the three live rounds, and he's
having to try to clear this weapon because he's had
a malfunction, which actually does occur with some frequency when
you have a suppressed weapon. And the fact that he

(23:51):
had engraving and I keep hearing this term, this engraving
that was only casing the fact that he had a
jam in the weapon. I would think that it would
be engraved on all of the rounds, So how can
you plan for that, for instance, that these rounds are stacked,

(24:11):
which they would be in a magazine, and every time
he clears it, he's going to eject a live round
as opposed to those that were spent when he was firing.
If you watch the sequence on a video, he fires
once and then it looks like he clears, but he
may have actually cleared two rounds at that point time

(24:33):
that we're still live because the weapon is jamming on
him and he has to cycle through it, so he's
taken a lot of time. My suspicion is it might
be there might be engraving on all of the rounds,
and that he has taken a lot of time somewhere,
probably you know, at home or wherever it is. He
shows up prepared to a certain degree, although he didn't

(24:54):
wear gloves and he didn't fully mask his face. There's
a lot still to kind of untangle here, but that
point is certainly fascinating. I've never encountered this before in
my years in forensics to this degree. Now, Hollywood makes
a big deal out of this kind of thing, but
it's just not something you commonly run into. My question

(25:16):
is what's the skill level of the engraving, in addition
to attempting to define how this was engraved, what instrumentality
was used, and then maybe the folks will be able
to pick up on some form in his writing if
he's doing this freehand.

Speaker 9 (25:34):
Brian Thompson's wife Paulette tells NBC News that Brian has
been receiving death threats. She doesn't go into detail, saying
it was basically due to a lack of coverage. She
doesn't know exactly, but Brian said there were some people
that had been threatening him.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Straight back out to Joe Scott Morgan joining us. Jo Scott,
if I said earlier, if there was a death thout
on my husband a I would let him travel alone
to New York. I would at least go with him
at the very least. But that said, they have children
to take care of back at home. But no security detail,
no police reports, nothing, And she is the only one

(26:11):
coming forward with the alleged threats if they weren't reported
to police, can anyone within the company verify this ever happened?

Speaker 10 (26:19):
Well, he hasn't spoken of this to anybody that's around him,
But why would he not, you know, say something about this.
And let me tell you one more thing. A guy
that is in his atmosphere. You know, we see all
these so called celebrities that are out there that have
these you know, security details with it. This is a guy, Nancy,
that actually has a level of value and would heighten

(26:44):
anybody's a census relative to the danger he could potentially
be in. Why wouldn't you put a couple of people
on him to check the wout at least to be
body people that are going to score him around. Maybe
he didn't want that. I have no idea, but I
do know that he's a prime target. It's just fascinating
to me that they chose this particular location, this individual

(27:06):
went about it in this manner because I agree with
all of the other panelists. I think this guy has
some weapons familiarity, but he is in no way of
pro If he had been a pro, we would not
have seen the video last that long.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
If you're sitting down, you may need to lay down
for what you're about to hear. Take a listen.

Speaker 9 (27:27):
The suspect was reportedly spoted outside a public housing project
roughly three miles from the crime scene at five am,
caring would look like an e bike battery. He's then
seen again checking out at Starbucks not far from the Hilton,
in just minutes before the attack. It's unclear what exactly
the suspect purchase, but police believe a water bottle and
candy wrapper left at the crime scene may belong to
the shooter and are testing the items for latent fingerprints

(27:49):
and DNA.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
The next thing we're going to hear, Lauren Colin, is
that the shooter used a credit card. I mean, he
hung out at a Starbucks just before the shooting, and
of course places himself at a public housing project. Yeah,
that's right. Blame the people of the housing project somehow
drag that into it. I guarantee that was orchestrated three

(28:10):
miles from the scene with what looked to be carrying
an e bike battery. In cases e bike crapped out
on him. Now, at first, this is reported to be
a city bike, the kind that are easily accessed all
around New York City. Now we're hearing it may not
be a city bike. That said, then he's at Starbucks
just beside the Hilton minutes before the attack, staring straight

(28:33):
into the surveillance cameras, So there's not just a water
bottle he leaves behind a candy wrapper. Somebody needs a
bit of honey, somebody wants the starbars before a murder.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yes, And there also have been reports that NYPD believes
that he may have actually taken this subway from the
Upper west Side to Midtown and to that Starbucks.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Wait, then, if he was on the Upper west Side
and he's spotted at a housing project, there's not a
housing project on the Upper west Side, Okay, that's where
all the rich people live. To look down on Central Park,
there's not a housing project there. So does he leave
the Upper West to go to a housing project to
be spotted and then go to the Starbucks.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
Well, that's what police are trying to figure out.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
And I didn't.

Speaker 4 (29:21):
Well, I'm hoping that he did take the subway because
Mayor Eric Adams did implement more cameras earlier this year.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Okay, I got a lot of surveillance on this guy,
but you're right, subway would help me figure out where
he's coming from, where he's going, and how he knows
those paths. I'm still flummoxed by the fact that he
would leave a water bottle with his DNA on it,
a candy wrapper, take a bike, no gloves, has a

(29:51):
pretend pro shooter stance, and has engraved bullets. For Pete's sake,
why not just throw down your driver's license before you
when you leave? Okay, Now we hear about a potential
eyewitness that goes on the run.

Speaker 9 (30:07):
Police still have not identified the eyewitness who ran from
the scene as Thompson was gunned down. A woman dressed
in dark clothing and holding a coffee cup was standing
in a doorway just feet away from Thompson when the
shooter opened fire. She runs along the building toward the
shooter to avoid the gunfire, and disappears from frame. Authorities
are asking her to come forward, hoping she may be
able to provide new details on the shooter.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
As a cull phone recovered in the alleyway. We're working
through that cell phone. Obviously, we'll be processing it forensically
at as far as words being exchanged. We do not
have audio of the incident. We only have the regular videoing.
Nothing for well, there's one witness standing right next to
the victim when he was shot. We're still trying to
identify that victim. Excuse me, excuse me that witness.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
And we also learn that law enforcement has turned their
attention back home to Minnesota once again.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
We're looking at everything. We're looking at his social media,
we are interviewing employees, we are interviewing family members. We
will be speaking to law enforcement in Minnesota.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, billboards, thousands of dollars, thousands
of letters supporting the so called healthcare assassin. Will it
matter in court? Will public opinion matter? It certainly did
in the case of Sean Diddy Coombs. This is what

(31:29):
I know is true, these facts. This is what happened.

Speaker 11 (31:33):
No one, what is the address of your emergency?

Speaker 5 (31:36):
That's really an emergency.

Speaker 11 (31:37):
I have a customer here that.

Speaker 10 (31:41):
Some other customers were suspicious of that he looks like
the CEO shooter from New York.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Okay, straight out to Kila Brantley, joining US investigative reporter
at large dailymail dot com. Did they actually say in
court that their client, Luigi Angioni is the victim because
his quote beautiful, promising life has been derailed.

Speaker 12 (32:06):
Yeah, Nancy, As you mentioned, his team did paint him
as someone with a promising future. Now, one thing that
had been documented was that Luigi suffered from debilitating back pain.
This was something that he went through. He went through
back surgery. And one thing that they say here is
that the real enemy here is the medical system, and

(32:28):
that is one thing that you can definitely expect.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
His legal team argue, Kila, can I believe you are
my lieon eyes control room? Please show me him a
running along the beach in Hawaii. I've got videos of
him lifting up girls and tickling them. It's a video.
They're all giggling hysterically, including him. I've got photos of

(32:52):
him lounging by the beach. I'd love to see those
photos of him hiking and what looks to be a
jungle rainfall. Oh, he is feeling no pain there, Cali Brantley,
I hope you don't fall for that look like and seeker.
Doctor Judy Hoe, did you know that Luigimanngioni is apparently
the victim in this scenario? Doctor Judy Hoe is joining

(33:13):
US clinical forensic neuro psychologist, author of the New Rules
of Attachment and another bestseller, Stop Self Sabotage. You need
to write one, doctor Judy Hoe, about try to tell
the truth and then send it. You know, I'll pay
for it and we can send it to Luigi Mangioni.
He is not the victim here, but you know you

(33:34):
can't count out the defense attorney Agnefello. He got Sean
Combs off on the major accusations in that indictment. So
no matter how ridiculous I may think he sounds, he
essentially won that case. Yes, his defense team that claims
Luigi Mangioni is the victim. I want to read it,

(33:56):
doctor Judy Hope. Beautiful promising life drailed by those irritating
murder charges.

Speaker 13 (34:02):
Judy, Wow, beautiful promising life, Nancy, what a narrative. And
as you said, even though he's not the victim. I
think this is why there has been a fan base, though,
because there's these individuals who actually believe maybe he is
a victim, that he's some type of anti hero, that
he's misunderstood.

Speaker 14 (34:22):
And oftentimes we.

Speaker 13 (34:23):
See this in individuals who might act charismatically, they just
seem to pull people in. And it's weird because a
lot of these people who develop this sort of fan
fanhood around Luigi, they're kind of thinking, well, maybe I
can be a special person in his life, maybe he'll
pay attention to me, maybe I can even develop a

(34:45):
friendship with this person. This person might learn to trust me.
It's really interesting, but some of it actually has to
do with a self centeredness of people who might actually
talk to him, that they're hoping to get something special
out of it for themselves.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
I'm sorry, Gargie. I know you're the clinical and forensic neuropsychologist,
but I don't even know what you just said. How
can the defense stand up and say this is not
about the murder victim. Can we show, please, Brian Thompson
walking along and he's gunned down in cold blood, leaving

(35:21):
behind two sons and a wife. That's the victim. According
to prosecutors, it's Luigi Mangioni holding a three D weapon
that he made that it took dozens and dozens of
hours to make, so he can gun down a guy
walking to work in the back. You stated, I don't

(35:43):
know what that was, doctor Judy Hoo. I'm not saying
you're wrong. I'm just saying I'm just a trial lawyer
didn't understand it. But I think I know some of
the people that consider Luigi Mangioni to be the victim,
and here they are filing in to core. Okay, oh
what Luigi fights fascists. Okay, look at this line. Now,

(36:09):
wait till you see the cat walk parade of sad
sack women filing in to They won't even show their
face to get a glimpse of Luigi MANGIONI. Yes, keep
it going, keep it going, because I've got hours of people. Yeah,

(36:34):
that was totally walking the cat walk right there, clamoring
to get in to just bask in the glow of
Luigi MANGIONI. Oh, it keeps going. Yeah, on and on.
They had to turn women away, and it's not just women. Listen.

Speaker 15 (36:53):
So this is who police believe was responsible for the
United Healthcare CEO Pepe. His seems Klubigi. All I can
say is, Mama, Miyah, does he need a Mario? I
believe it was a great philosopher and poet once said, Mama,
I'm in love with a criminal, and this type of
love isn't rational, it's physical. That was Britney Spears, and

(37:15):
I believe we're all feeling that right now. I believe
if you're going to do superhero like shit, you better
look like one. Okay, this man clearly did that. Did
he train at the Marvel Studios with all the other
Chris's okay, because Luigi, that's a spicy meat the ball.

Speaker 5 (37:29):
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 15 (37:29):
I believe if we're going to claim to be a
Christian nation, that we need to act like one. And
part of acting like that is practicing forgiveness. And after
a lot of seconds of thinking, I have decided I'm
gonna forgive him. I'm ready to forgive him, right, but
not forget, because mean, my god, how could you forget
an angel like this. I'm not gonna lie for a while.
I thought, oh my god, we're never going to find him,

(37:51):
you know. And I was wrong, because somewhere along the way,
the ups and downs, the highs and lows, the masks
and no masks, this man he found a way into
our hearts.

Speaker 8 (38:04):
He did.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
I hardly even know where to start with that. That
is from mister Williams spreck on TikTok. I'm in love
with a criminal, and I forgive him after a few
seconds of consideration, Doctor Gudy hoe it. I can't say
it gets worse, but there's more. Listen, you can't take

(38:29):
my mind and say there's blood on his head when
you're the one.

Speaker 9 (38:41):
With the girl.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Who's taking lives for fun. You can't take my man.
That's from Scarlett park TikTok. So it's gone beyond calling
him a spicy meatball. These people actually consider Luigimi and
Gioni their man, and they are angry with the fans

(39:07):
for prosecuting. What have I gone down the rabbit hole?
Am I in some crazy bizarre alie in Wonderland? What
is happening, doctor gudi Hoe.

Speaker 13 (39:19):
I know it seems completely unbelievable, Nancy, but this does happen.
People start to idolize these potential I mean, clearly this
is a defendant, right, but they're thinking in their minds,
this person is innocent. Maybe I'm going to be their
special person, and they're lusting after them the way that
they would lust after a celebrity, especially when they see

(39:41):
photos and videos that they can start cutting into their
own social media. They're developing a fictionalized relationship with him,
a fantasy and essentially completely erasing all of the facts
that have been evident in this case. And clearly the
defendant's attorneys are trying to paint that picture.

Speaker 14 (39:57):
As well, leaning into it as hard as possible because
they're hoping to influence the public opinion even before a
jury is selected, so that they can hopefully get him
the outcome that he wants, which is apparently to.

Speaker 13 (40:10):
Escape a death sentence, escape prison. Maybe I'm not sure
exactly what they think is possible, but that's what's so
scary about all the positivity that has developed around his
persona in terms of all of these illustrations, the website
they set up about and it's really concerning.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
And you know, Cheryl McCollum is joining me. Cold Case
Investigative Research Institute, founder, author of a brand new book,
Swans Don't Swim in a Sewer, Solving the Cold Case
of the Flint River Killer's Daughter on Amazon. Cheryl, Okay,
do you remember the night that you and I were

(40:46):
out until two o'clock in the morning staking out a
location where we thought Luigi Mangioni was going to be apprehended.
Do you remember that night? Because I sure do I do.
How has this gotten so bass Ackwards, Chryl Ninthy.

Speaker 11 (41:02):
It is mind boggling that anybody is trying to paint
this killer as the victim. I mean, the victim's life
was not just promising, it was in full swing. He
had a wife and children, and a career at the
highest level. He had friends and extended family. He had

(41:26):
everything going for him. Mangione had none of that, but
he took everything from those children. And I'm going to
tell you something, when you look at the people that
are contacting him, I hope and pray that those six
thousand letters that he's gotten, that one hundred and fifteen

(41:48):
a day, that there's some good intel in there too,
because he is writing people back, so he's communicating, and
I hope they're listing.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Every piece of somehow this has gotten topsy turvy upside down.
I haven't even gotten into the legal implications of what
is happening in court. I'm just so concerned that one
of these nut jobs is going to end up on
the ultimate jury and acquit Luigi Manngioni under the misconception

(42:20):
that he is somehow the victim. Again in court, his
lawyers and un quoting claimed that his beautiful, promising life
has been derailed by murder charges. It's all about me, me, me, me,
me me. This is a millionaire's son, multimillionaire who grew

(42:45):
up with silver spoon stuck in his mouth and has
been living in a Hawaii high rise on the beach,
doing nothing, and yet he's the victim. Can you imagine,
Cheryl McCollum, how hard to Robson had to work to
get to become the CEO at United Healthcare. It wasn't

(43:06):
handed to him on a silver platter on top of
a Christmas tree like it was MANGIONI. He had to
work and sacrifice long, long hours to get to where
he got to to be gunned down like a dog
on the sidewalk.

Speaker 11 (43:20):
Cheryl Nancy, you cannot compare these two people. That's why
I agree with you. This whole thing is upside down.
Not only did the victim work and sacrifice, so did
his wife. You know what it takes. You know how
long David has gone during the day. It's not an
eight hour day, it's a sixteen seventeen hour game. He

(43:43):
was playing at the top of his game. There's no
doubt about it. Mangione was giving nothing to a family,
he was giving nothing to society. He was contributing zero.
And again, what he took cannot even be measured.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
If I hear one more person talk about his back pain,
that's you, Cali Brantley. I think my head's gonna blow
off because I have videos of him tickling these girls
and picking them up just before the shooting. I can't
show it because it has the girl's faces in it,
but he was feeling no pain. But it's all about me, Me, me, me, me,

(44:26):
why me? And he's certainly not the first. Let me
refresh your recollection, as we say in court with bride
killer Jamie Lee Komarowski. Listen to her, right, I just
don't know why it had to happen to.

Speaker 16 (44:40):
Me, because bad things happen to good people, honey, that's why.

Speaker 17 (44:46):
It's just it's just something that happened to you.

Speaker 18 (44:51):
And we are going to deal with the best week past.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
Okay, Dave Mack joining me. Crimestwaris investigator, reporter. You know
who the bride killer is, right, Ja Lee Komarowski. She's guilty.
She got totally stinking drunk and plowed into a beautiful
bride leaving her wedding reception with the groom and killed her.

(45:15):
And there she is behind bars, going why is this
happening to me?

Speaker 17 (45:22):
One look and listen to her father, Nancy. What does
he say, Well, bad things happen to good people. No,
they don't. You just killed somebody because of your own actions.
But see, we've got a whole group of people now
that never want to admit they did anything wrong. Everything
is on them. How can you possibly think man Joni

(45:45):
is sitting here saying his life is derailed, Well, he
destroyed another life and another family. Kambarowski sitting in jail,
Why is this happening to me?

Speaker 18 (45:53):
Well?

Speaker 14 (45:53):
Why not?

Speaker 11 (45:54):
What do you expect?

Speaker 17 (45:54):
What happened? Sick of this? Nancy is getting really tiresome.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
And there is her victims, Mattha Miller in her wedding
dress just before she's mowed down dead by Jamie Lee Komrowski.
And here's I guess this would have to be the
Miss Universe of Wyme Jody Arius. Check her out. She
is more concerned about her makeup as she is approaching

(46:19):
trial in the brutal stabbing and shooting death of her fiance,
Travis Alexander, who was stabbed at least twenty nine times.
Joe Scott Morgan and I have argued about that. I
say it was more than that. Check it out, Jody Arius,
you should have at least done your makeup before you
speak to police about murdering your fiance. When he broke

(46:41):
up and started seeing someone else. That earlier video from
forty eight hours Joe Scott, Morgan, Professor Forensics, do you
recall Travis Alexander's death? Hey, stay on that video because
as they're about to question her about what could have
happened to Travis Alexander, she starts singing and there you go,
does a headstand and bemoans the fact she doesn't have

(47:04):
on her lip gloss. Talk about me, me, me, Joe Scott,
what happened to Travis?

Speaker 19 (47:09):
Yeah, he was brutally murdered, Nancy. She had him stripped down, nude,
taking a shower, taking dirty pictures, if you will, And
while his back is turned, she takes a knife and
plunges it into his back over and over and over again.
When he turns around to defend himself to try to

(47:30):
parry her stabs at him, he gets stabbed in the
chest as well. And if it wasn't enough, after he
spits up blood onto his stink, onto his sink, he
crawls tries to crawl away from her down the hallway.
She straddles him and cuts his throat from ear to
ear and the Koudi gras she shoots him after he

(47:53):
is dead. That's the kind of human that you're looking
at right here. She's absolutely discovered and it's.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
All about me, me, me, Joscott Morgan, you've seen it all.
I'm gonna try to say, show you something you haven't
seen yet. Speaking of me, me, me, and criminal defendants
focusing only on themselves and not their victims. There is
the drunk, stinking drunk a d A Assistant district's attorney
Devin Flannag and listen to her. What the protocol is? Protocol?

Speaker 18 (48:27):
As you turn off the body, can you have to
turn it off?

Speaker 5 (48:30):
And that's your protocol, lawyer.

Speaker 11 (48:32):
So she knows, well, that's lawyer stuff.

Speaker 10 (48:35):
So that's not true.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
So we got to go, no it is, that's that's
the law.

Speaker 18 (48:38):
I'm an ag, i'm an aging.

Speaker 10 (48:40):
Good for you.

Speaker 19 (48:42):
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Those two were kicked out of I think it was
a bar for being drunk and belligerent. Then you've got
oh gosh, she's been called the screaming band. She and
do you hear going, I'm an a da, I'm an
a da. Every sent it starts with I. I I
listen to this woman, Jocott. He needs to not judge me.
He he wants to call a salt. We're gonna go

(49:05):
through that row. No, he wants to go through assault.

Speaker 5 (49:10):
No, we're not doing that.

Speaker 11 (49:11):
Then no, he he claims I assaulted him.

Speaker 5 (49:15):
No, we're not doing that.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
We're not doing that. And then, of course maybe this
one beats Jody Arius. No, no, no, I'm gonna have
to go with Luigi Mangioni and his beautiful life de reild.
I'm sure you recall Shana Hubers that gave her ex
boyfriend the quote nose jop he always wanted with a handgun. Listen,

(49:38):
Ary Vain.

Speaker 5 (49:40):
One of our last conversations we had that was good
was sitting wants my best friend of the dnist to
do with the near and wants to get a noob,
just that kind of person. And I'm right here. I
gave him his nose doob he wanted.

Speaker 18 (49:54):
I want to marry me?

Speaker 15 (49:55):
If they know that I kill one boyfriend and helped.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
I mean, I'm not you know, Joe Scott Morgan, Professor
Forensics and death Investigator. Your forte is dead, bodies and
causes of death and modes of death. Let me go
to special guests joining us now, Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist,

(50:23):
joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Doctor Angie Arnold,
what is that. I don't know if you saw this
for yourself, but me Andngioni's defensive team is actually arguing
his life was derailed by the murder charges.

Speaker 20 (50:37):
You know, Nancy, My thought is that's all they've got.
Who cares if his life was derailed. He is accused
of murdering someone. Maybe his life should be derailed. But
the way I feel about this is, Nancy, that's all they've.

Speaker 6 (50:54):
Got to say.

Speaker 20 (50:55):
That is the only thing they've got.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Let's talk about the facts and the law.

Speaker 9 (51:00):
Listen taking orders as she tells the operator, I have
a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of that.
He looks like the CEO shooter in New York, and
they're generally upset and come to me, and I'm like,
I can't approach him. The manager continues working and can
be heard talking about bagels, at one point shouting one
of them is no better The nine one one operator

(51:22):
Emily States, testifies about the call and is heard to
ask for a description, with the manager applying, the only
thing you can see is the eyebrows.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Joining us is Sky Lazarro. She's a veteran criminal defense attorney.
She's practiced in both She's practiced in both state and
federal court. She is with Ray Quinny and Nebeker. Sky.
Thank you for being with us. If the defense is
arguing that Luigimi and Gioni was illegally arrested, the nine

(51:52):
to one one call occurred before the arrest, So what
could be the possible grounds for supper that call by
the McDonald's manager.

Speaker 21 (52:03):
I think they're going to have a really hard time
keeping the nine one one call out.

Speaker 5 (52:06):
I can understand it from a defense perspective.

Speaker 21 (52:09):
You have to try, but when it comes to nine
one one calls, as long as you can lay the
foundation for it, it's probably coming in.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
I can tell you one thing I know, sky Lazarro,
that they hate about this nine to one one call.
We had the same thing happen in the Idaho Slighings
of four Beautiful Idaho University Students, where Dylan Mortenson described
Brian Coberger's freaky, bushy eyebrows.

Speaker 22 (52:39):
Listen, just remember seeing this figure that was like not fat, obviously,
but more of like the skinnier tongue build and some
mask on.

Speaker 5 (52:48):
I don't know what the mask.

Speaker 22 (52:49):
Exactly was, but when I thought about it, it was
just like covering here and here. I don't know if
it's covering his mouth his nose or below his mouth
and nose. I just remember knowing that he was white,
but I don't know how he was. I just knew
he was. And this knowing there's like I knew he
looked at me because of the bushy eye.

Speaker 10 (53:05):
That's all I remember.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Joining me is Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now,
star of the gold Shields podcast, and he covered the
very same streets where Brian Thompson was gunned down in
cold Blood. You know, I have had a killer identified.

(53:28):
He was a chef, by the way, identified by a
particular limp that he had. I've had a bank robber
identified because he walked sleugh footed in other words, like
it up. They're all sorts of ways to identify someone.
It can be by voice that, it could be any

(53:51):
number of things. In this case, the McDonald's manager said
bushy eyebrows, and there's no doubt that's Luigimi. They hate it.
They hate that identification, Tom.

Speaker 18 (54:05):
Yeah, they do, because you know it shows how important
Nancy and we did this when we first started talking
about this case, how important the videos and all the
photos were to get out to the public, even if
his face was covered, even if he was in a
cab or whatever it was, because those eyebrows jumped off
the page to everyone who looked at it. That was

(54:28):
the number one thing that everyone looked at as a
looking point and identification point when it came to him.
And it just showed that the quicker they got those
photos out, the better it was.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
In the end of this, you know, I'm very curious
about this, the fact that he is identified at McDonald's
by his eyebrows, among other things. Let's say the pictures
of the McDonald's. There you go, there he is at McDonald's.
But Skyle is all right. Don't you think that the
defense should be more concerned learned about the fact that

(55:01):
he can be identified. At the time of the killing,
he showed his face repeatedly.

Speaker 7 (55:08):
I agree with you.

Speaker 21 (55:09):
He probably should have been a little bit more careful
at that time and that should be the stuff they're
seeking to exclude, and maybe they will, I think as
it goes to the nine to one one call the
defenses probably only argument is that these are witnesses who
identified him, not from the shooting. They weren't there that night,
so they can't say I saw him do the shooting.

(55:30):
They just want to exclude it because he's at the McDonald's.
The problem is they get to the McDonald's and it
turns out.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
To be him speaking of getting to the McDonald's. The
defense is arguing that while he wasn't really under arrest,
he was kind of under arrest because so many police
started showing up and massing at the McDonald's. They were concerned,
if this is Luigi Mangioni, the healthcare assassin, he's probably armed.

(55:57):
As a matter of fact, he was. He was armed.
There was a weapon in his backpack sitting right there
with him, so they were right now. What the defense
is arguing is that having multipolice, multiple police officers show
up is tantamount equal to arresting him. Why do we
care because police engage in a conversation with him to

(56:19):
identify him, and he spilled a lot of information in
that conversation. The state says it was before his arrest.
Why does it matter because a statement taken while you
are in custody without miranda will be suppressed. So they
want the judge to believe that because several police officers

(56:42):
showed up at McDonald's, that me and Gioni was effectively
under arrest in any statements he made pre miranda should
be suppressed. That's not going to happen. When I walk
into let's just pretend a Chipotle and all the Atlantic
PD are in the getting a salad, I don't feel
like I'm under arrest. Think about it.

Speaker 9 (57:05):
Listen, Mangoni stares at monitors showing his arrest at McDonald's.
Mangoni sits to eat breakfast. At nine oh three. Eleven
minutes later, the nine one one call is made. Nine
twenty eight two police officers show up and begin talking
to Mangoni. The restaurant slowly begins to fill with police
until nine forty two, when at least eight officers are

(57:25):
visible on the recording. The defense claims packing the place
with police amounts to unlawful attention prior to Mangoni's arrest.
Agnifilo argues police surrounding Mangoni and the McDonald's this tantamount
to illegally detaining the alleged killer Agnifilo also takes exception
with the way officers treated Mangoni's backpack during the arrest,
claiming it was warrantlessly searched on the scene.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
In other words, they looked in his backpack. Cheryl McCollum
joining me. She is not only a crime scene investigator
and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, but she
is also the star of a hit podcast which I
actually put on a loop sometimes, Cheryl McCollum, Zone seven.
Cheryl McCollum, has it ever dawned on you when you

(58:07):
go into McDonald's for a cup of coffee, that you're
arresting somebody, that you're a mere presence equals an arrest,
because that's what they're arguing and what they're trying to do, Cheryl,
is get out from under what Manngione said to police
pre miranda and them finding evidence in his backpack.

Speaker 11 (58:30):
I think the body cam is going to be so
critical here because it's going to show all of his actions.
It's going to, you know, show the world that he
stood up and thought he was under arrest. Only a
guilty person would think that, Nancy. What the defense is
doing is there basically, look, you use manure to make
something grow, right, So they are planting and cultivating and

(58:53):
trying to grow this story that he's the victim, that
he didn't do anything, that he was under arrest and
now use anything, and it's just be it.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
While this legal warfare is taking place in a courtroom,
Manzione's attorneys continue to insist that he's the victim.

Speaker 23 (59:13):
He's a young man, and he is being treated like
a human pingpong ball between two warring jurisdictions here, and
they are literally treating him like he is like some
sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
He was on display for everyone.

Speaker 23 (59:31):
To see in the biggest staged purp walk I've ever
seen in my career. There was no reason for the
NYPD and everybody to have these big assault rifles that frankly,
I had no idea it was in their arsenal, and
to have all of these these the press there, the
media there, It was like perfectly choreographed. And what was
the New York City mayor doing at this press conference?

Speaker 14 (59:53):
He is a walking, talking contradiction.

Speaker 11 (59:55):
He supposedly is again this wealthy ceo, yet he comes
for money.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
This is a guy living in a high rise in Honolulu,
waking up to the beach every morning. Did she wake
up to a BH this morning?

Speaker 22 (01:00:08):
That I certainly not.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
The Luigi Mangioni defense is fighting tooth and nail to
keep out what happened in that McDonald's, and as Cheryl
McCombs pointing out, that bodycam is going to be so
significant because it doesn't matter what the state says. It
doesn't matter what the defense says or how much Luigim
Mangioni claims he's the victim. What matters is what really
happened inside that McDonald's. They're not going to get the

(01:00:32):
nine one one call suppressed, that's not happening. But what
happened in the McDonald's is the state going to lose
valuable evidence on allegal technicality? Why is it they want
that backpack suppressed? Straight out to investigator at large for

(01:00:53):
dailymail dot Com kill Leb Brantley. What was in the backpack? Nancy?

Speaker 12 (01:00:58):
There was a three D p gun. It's a handgun
which is believed to could possibly be the murder weapon.
There was a notebook with handwritten notes in it. Then
he also had a knife on him, which was discovered
about twenty minutes later. So he was armed, and at
that point he was considered very dangerous.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Okay, hold on, what did you say? Was written in
Mangione's spiral notebook that was in his backpack.

Speaker 12 (01:01:23):
That he wanted any use the word whack the healthcare
CEO whack meaning kill herd destroy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
No wonder they want it suppressed to Dave mac crime
Stori's investigative reporter, tell me about the three D gun
sometimes called a ghost gun.

Speaker 17 (01:01:42):
But Nancy, you know we've been we have not been
given the very specifics of what type of gun. We
know it's a pistol, but we don't know the exact
name of it. Three D printed firearms take a massive
amount of time and filament far more than any other.
Is the most common, and it's the easiest one to

(01:02:02):
print and takes the shortest amount of time. The Liberator
takes thirty hours of constant printing with non stop printing.
Nancy thirty hours to print the easiest of all the pistols.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Tom Smith, here's the thing with a ghost gun is
made on a three D printer. Tom, It's unserialized. That's
why they're so popular amongst criminals. You think Grandpa as
is long gun is shotgun under the bed. You think
it's a three D printed gun. No, it's got a

(01:02:35):
serial number. Why is it so serious that a ghost
gun is un serialized?

Speaker 18 (01:02:44):
Well, because you can't trace it. No matter what you
do with that weapon, it cannot be traced back to you.
And that is why so many criminals and Luigi Maggioni
of course went to the lengths that he did to
make that gun, because that is the pre term and
premeditation of it. Already, he's already thinking ahead of that

(01:03:05):
gun not being traced to him, and that is part
of this as well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Tom Smith, you're exactly correct. To Joseph Scott Morgan, let
me introduce him formally. He is a professor of forensics
at Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program.
He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
He is a death investigator that has handled thousands of
death scenes, and he's a star of hit podcast Body.

(01:03:31):
Back to Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, what is a
suppressor or commonly known as a silencer.

Speaker 19 (01:03:42):
Yeah, stay away from the term silencer, because no weapon
is silenced, it is suppressed. That means that the crack
of the sound. You're talking about a perhaps supersonic round.
It's traveling, you know, past the speed of sounds. So
what you want to do is reduce that sound that's
put forth from the muzzle. If you take a close look,

(01:04:03):
I'm glad that you have that image. You take a
close look at that weapon there. The end of that
muzzle is actually threaded. What that means is is that
it's adaptable. It's adaptable to contain a suppressor. The suppressor
is displayed here. It's that long black cylindrical object there.
It can be screwed on on the end. Well, you

(01:04:25):
want to knock down the sound. So it's not going
to draw attention to you when you fired this thing.
Because let's just say that it is a non suppressed weapon.
This thing's going to echo through the canyons down there
in Manhattan, through all of those buildings. You'll still hear
a sound, but it'll be a slight crack. It's not
like it's portrayed in movies, okay, But it will reduce

(01:04:46):
the sound, it doesn't completely eliminate it. And the purpose
of this is so that you're not going to draw
attention to anyone. It does reduce, say, some of the
capabilities of the weapon as far as the effec activeness
of it at a greater range. But this is this
is not a close range. As a matter of fact,
if we were to look at the body here, it

(01:05:08):
would be classified as indeterminate because you're not going to
have any kind of uh sut deposition gun unperned gunpowder.
It will have fallen away by that time. But this
is not too distant of a shot. You'll still have
that same muzzle velocity striking into Brian Thompson's body. It's
effectively lethal.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Joining me now, the star of Zone seven podcast, Cheryl McCollum,
is with us, Cheryl who has un serialized guns and silencers.

Speaker 11 (01:05:42):
Criminals and methy There's another thing. Even though this is
a three D printed weapon, it's still going to lead
marking on capons and they're going to be able to be,
you know, determined that this weapon fired the bullet that
murdered Brian Thompson. So forensically, it's not going to get
you out of trouble. They may not can trace it

(01:06:05):
to a manufacturer, to a bar that they can absolutely
determine that that bullet was fired by that weapon.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Cheryl McCollum, you're so right. And Tom Smith, this is
like a fish in water for you. Every day you
were getting off the streets of Manhattan guns to match
with bullets, bullets that were literally dug out of victims' bodies.
And Cheryl said it right. A bullet hurls down the

(01:06:39):
barrel of a gun, that gun may look like all
the other guns in the gun store showcase, but it's
not because inside the barrel, the metal has cooled in
a certain way and it leaves ridges and imperfections on
the inside of the barrel, and as that bullet shoots

(01:07:00):
down the barrel, it is forever marked by those imperfections.
So when you take the murder weapon to the crime
lab and you shoot a bullet through the murder weapon,
and you take the known bullet dug out of the
victim and you put it under a microscope next to
the one you just shot, it's like a fingerprint. No

(01:07:25):
other gun, be it a three D printed gun, a
Grandma's Bessie's out from under her her mattress, you can
track and identify like a fingerprint, that bullet came from
that gun. Isn't that true?

Speaker 18 (01:07:43):
And that's the best way to say it. It's it's
the gun's fingerprint and the ballistic check of that in
the twist marks and all of that is what you
match up. And it is a fingerprint that is unmatchable,
you know, to anyone else. It is strictly to that
weapon that you will catch up the weapon, take the
round taken out of the victim, and match it up.

(01:08:05):
And that is damaging when it comes to court.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
Oh yeah, and Tom Smith, that is why they are
fighting to the death in court to keep that jury
from every knowing of a ballistics match that his three
D pretty gun is the murder weapon. Listened to Alvin Bragg,
the Manhattan District Attorney.

Speaker 16 (01:08:28):
For nearly an hour. We alleged the defendant waited in
the area near the Hilton Hotel waiting for mister Thompson
to appear. From six thirty eight am to six forty
four am. The defendant stood across from the entrance of
the hotel on West fifty fourth Street. When he saw
mister Thompson, he crossed the street and approached him from behind.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Caleb Brantley, Daily Mail. The defense for Luigi Manngiani is
also trying to suppress statements he allegedly made to his guards.
He had special guard yards behind bars, so nothing would
happen to him like it did to Epstein. So let's
first talk about Thomas Rivers, the former British infantryman who

(01:09:12):
was minding Mangioni. What did Mangioni allegedly say to Rivers? Nancy.

Speaker 12 (01:09:19):
Luigi was held for ten days in Pennsylvania, and he
had spoken about being very disappointed that he was being
compared to the unibomber. He also said that mainstream media
was more focused on crime, and that when you looked
at social media, they were really more focused about the
healthcare industry, which, according to this officer, is what Luigi said.

(01:09:42):
This was really about Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Sounds like a confession to me. Sky, lazarro Oopsie.

Speaker 21 (01:09:47):
Nancy, I agree and disagree.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
Here's the problem.

Speaker 21 (01:09:50):
They put these guys in a situation like that, in
solitary where they can't talk to anybody else. And the
other thing is that we know these officers didn't document
any of this. They're supposed to be taking notes seven
times an hour about what he's doing and his well being,
and they don't write down anything like he just made.

Speaker 5 (01:10:09):
An a mission.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Sky Lazarro, did you say it's a problem he's being
held in solitary. You know who else is in solitary,
Brian Thompson, Except his is a casket. So you're telling
me again, I can't believe you're buying into this sky Lazarro,
that he's the one that's being tormented. You know what else?
He told Rivers that Rivers should really read Doors a

(01:10:36):
perception by all this Huxley, which is all about psychedelic
drug trips and mystical interpretations. Needless to say, Rivers did
not read the book. But there is another guard that
he talked to. This is the one I'm really interested in.

Speaker 9 (01:10:55):
Listen, Officer Matt Henry wasn't chatty with the alleged killer.
That doesn't stop man from telling Henry he was caught
with a three D printed firearm, the weapon used to
murder CEO Brian Thompson. Attorney Mark Agnifilo challenges Henry, saying,
so he just blurted out to you that he had
a three D printed pistol. Henry drily replies, yes too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Doctor Angela Arnold joining us. She's a renowned psychiatrist out
of the Atlanta Jurisdiction, at Angela Arnold dot com forim
Professor Psychiatry. It goes on and on. Former medical director
at the psychiatric Obgy Inklin at Grady, which never has
a lack of business. I found a lot of witnesses

(01:11:36):
and victims at Grady Hospital, Doctor Angela Arnold. Why is
this so hard? I bet a jury's not going to
have a hard time believing this that Luigi Mangioni, who
has had a lifetime of entitlement, would blab to his
guards why they're his new friends? They would never betray him?
Right yep?

Speaker 5 (01:11:57):
Oh sure?

Speaker 24 (01:11:58):
And you know, Nancy, he probably suffers from some sort
of personality disorder in which he thinks about himself an
awful lot. So he really doesn't He may not see
that he's done anything wrong, and he probably hasn't suffered
any consequences for any of his actions in the past,
and so that would make him more likely to almost

(01:12:21):
be bragging about what he's done and to let other
people know what he's done. This is typical for his
behavior in all likelihood throughout his existence.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
Tom Smith joining me, former NYPD detective thirty years now,
star co host of gold Shields podcast, Tom What is Wrong?
With rich people. Do they think they can just get
away with everything, anything and everything they can confess they

(01:12:52):
can stay. Yeah, they caught me with a three D
print and gun, which is the murder Weapon's wrong with them?
Have you noticed the same sense of entitlement sometimes does
them in because they think they can buy off everybody,
that everybody wants to be their friend, but these two
guards do not want to be his friend.

Speaker 18 (01:13:15):
Yeah, they've lived their whole life like this, Nancy. You know,
they've gotten what they wanted. They'd either pay for it
or the power that they have has influenced someone's decision
into what they're getting or what they're doing. And they
just think that holds true for every aspect of their life,
including killing someone. I mean, that's how deranged they are

(01:13:35):
when it comes to the entitlement that they believe they
are are owed when it comes to murder or you know,
killing a bride. We did that show. You know, it's
just constant and it just keeps coming up and it's
absolutely disgusting.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
Tom. I want you to look at a picture if
I can get the controller and to put it up
for me, dig through those files. I want to see
the picture allegedly Mangiani, who's presumed innocent, holding up the
three D with the silencer on it, pointing directly at
Brian Thompson's back. According to police, he waited an hour

(01:14:13):
for just the right moment. There's his backpack, which was
recovered at the McDonald's. There's his outfit which he had
with him. There's the three D weapon, and let's look
at Brian Thompson walking along early morning going to a
work conference. He shot in the back right there. And

(01:14:38):
I'm not going to play that when he actually gets shot,
because someday, somehow his boys might look this up online
and I don't want this to be stuck in their memory.
Calli Brantley. Were any of me g Only's family members

(01:15:00):
in court and were any of the victims' family members
in court this week?

Speaker 12 (01:15:06):
Not that we know of Nancy, but a lot of
Luigi's supporters And one thing, have you heard of pretty privilege?
Because it absolutely feels like Luigi is benefiting from that
by having hordes of fans, because he is a handsome man,
that he is benefiting from pretty privilege? And I'm sure
his defense team is happy that they have a relatively

(01:15:29):
attractive man as a client.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Kila, I don't find him attractive. Every time I look
at him, I see a tail swishing in the back
and two horns right here. That's what I see. What
is happening in court this week is critical. If this
evidence is suppressed, there may be no justice in this case.

(01:15:52):
A man shut down on the sidewalk on video and
no justice. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Christ signing off,
goodbye friend.

Speaker 14 (01:16:10):
M hmm