July 18, 2025 • 66 mins
Six years after his death, convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein is back in the news, and despite the FBI maintaining that the millionaire financer committed suicide in prison, doubts linger. The existence of Epstein documents and whether they will be released on many minds. Despite clams by Government officials they there are thousand of videos and pictures to review, officials confirmed there is no “Epstein client list, ” meaning wealthy and powerful men who were provided with underage girls for sex. Attorney General Pam Bondi Bondi released what she called the "first phase" of the declassified Epstein files in February. flight logs, an evidence list and a redacted list of contacts. The AG said at the time the Justice Department would release more case files after redacting victims’ names. When asked Bondi said a list of Epstein’s clients, was on her for review." but in this month’s memo, the Justice Department said there was "no incriminating ‘client list.’" and when pressed about it Bondi side stepped the issue. The memo stated quote “There was also no credible evidence found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions. We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties."
With the political furor growing, President Donald Trump, said on Thursday he has asked Attorney General Pam Bondi to release grand jury testimony related to Epstein's criminal prosecution. Bondi replied in a social media post, “President Trump — we are ready to move the court tomorrow to unseal the grand jury transcripts.”
Attorney General Pam Bondi has been in office just two weeks when she announced the release of documents related to the late financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.
The Justice Department issued a statement alongside "Phase 1," clarifying that the declassified files largely contained previously leaked documents that had never been formally released by the U.S. government. While many expected Epstein’s client list to reveal explosive details, most of the roughly 200-page release consisted of previously circulated information, including Epstein’s contact list and flight logs from his private jet.
Amid public disappointment, Bondi sent a letter to FBI Director Kash Patel, claiming a source at the New York FBI Field Office informed her that thousands of pages of Epstein-related documents remained in the agency’s possession. She demanded the remaining files be delivered to her office by 8:00 a.m. the next day and ordered Patel to investigate why her directives had not been followed.
Bondi has since stated that her office received a "truckload of evidence," which she says includes the remaining Epstein documents the FBI had withheld. She claims Director Patel is investigating the reason for the delay while other agents work to redact the remaining files. Bondi promised,
“If something’s redacted, you will know the line and you will know why it’s redacted.” Many anticipate new indictments based on the documents’ contents.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Good evening, everybody. I'm Nancy Grace,
and this is the Friday Night special Crime Stories, and
tonight does it never end? With Jeffrey Epstein, even from
(00:22):
the grave, the man is causing chaos amongst crime victims.
This after four people connected to the case have died
allegedly by suicide, including the most recent sex attack victim,
sex attack child victim, Virginia Giffrey. Mystery surrounding the Jeffrey
(00:43):
Epstein files after the United States ag Bondi claims quote
tens of thousands of videos. I'm Nancy Grace, this is
Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
Very surprising statement from the US Attorney General, Pam Bondie.
(01:05):
The White House promises to release more files from its
sex trafficking investigation of jeff Epstein. The FBI, according to Bondy,
is reviewing quote tens of thousands of videos of Epstein
quote with children or child porn. Okay, what a sicco
(01:31):
Uh what do we know? The comment made by Bondi
was made after a similar remark made to a stranger
with a hidden camera, and it raises stakes for Bondy
to prove she has in her possession unseen and compelling evidence.
Now recall this is after Bondi promised a document dump,
(01:56):
she talked about it and angered many elements of the
government when the documents were not delivered Yet now weeks
after the AG's remarks, it still remains unclear to what
she was referring and when the documents would be released.
(02:17):
What's the hold up? Who is in those videos? Who
is named in the documents? On the heels of yet
another suicide linked to these documents and this case talking
about Virginia's Gufray. What's happening?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Six years after his death, convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein
is back in the news, and despite the FBI maintaining
that the millionaire financier committed suicide in prison, doubts. Lingerer
added to that phray is the fact that the FBI
released prison video of Epstein had nearly three minutes cut
(02:58):
out of it before it was made public. The video
is from the only camera near Epstein's cell the night
before he was found dead, and it had been described
as the full raw video. The roughly eleven hour video
was released in an effort to stave off the continued
rumors that foul play was involved in Epstein's death, news
(03:20):
of three missing minutes is just fanning the flames. Attorney
General Pambondy has attributed the three minute discrepancy to a
nightly system reset. It's unclear if the missing footage could
show anything relevant. The existence of Epstein documents is also
garnering headlines. Government officials confirmed there is no Epstein client list,
(03:42):
meaning wealthy and powerful men who were provided with underaged
girls for sex. Attorney General Pambondy released what she called
the first phase of the declassified Epstein files in February,
flight logs, an evidence list, and a redacted list of
content acts. The AG said at the time the Justice
(04:03):
Department will release more files after redacting victims' names. When asked,
Bondi said a list of Epstein's clients was on her
desk for review, but in this month's memo, the Justice
Department said there was no incriminating client list, and when
pressed about it at a press conference, Bondy sidestepped.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
The issue today is about fentanyl overdoses throughout our country
and people who have lost loved ones to fentanyl. That's
the message that we're here to send today. Nothing about Epstein.
I'm not going to talk about Epstein.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
The July memo stated, quote, there was no credible evidence
found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions.
We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation
against uncharged third parties with the political for growing. President
Donald Trump said on Thursday that he asked Attorney General
(04:58):
Bondy to release grand jury test Stimoni related to Epstein's
criminal prosecution. Bondy replied in a social media post, President Trump,
we are ready to move the court tomorrow to unseal
the grand jury transcripts.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
What do we believe is in the documents? Let's start
with that.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
New Epstein files are teased to be released as Attorney
General Pam Bundy promises many more files to come.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Presidential counselor Alena Haba says that prosecutions will absolutely go
forward based on what is discovered in the Epstein files.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
But who, what, where, when? Why?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Listen to Haba, do you think by releasing information from
these files we are likely to see criminal actions being taken? Absolutely?
There is Hava speaking to our friend Piers Morgan on
Piers Morgan Uncensored and she's joined with the US Attorney General,
Pam Bondy.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
A source had told me where the documents were being kept,
Southern District of New York.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Shock.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So we got them all by, hopefully all of them
Friday at eight am, thousands of pages of documents that.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
From our friends at Fox News. That is the US
Attorney General, the top cop for our entire country. Now
they are saying that documents have been stored. I don't
know what that means in the Southern District of New
York now, she said, shocker. I'm not sure what she
means by that. I can only suppose, so I'll move forward. Stored.
(06:38):
Why are they being stored? I don't understand that, because
let me go straight out to Angrea Lewis joining me
now partner at Sercy Law form in Palm Beach, Florida.
But for my purposes former felony prosecutor in Palm Beach County.
When Epstein's sweetheart deal, it makes me sick gag when
(06:59):
I think about that deal. I should probably hold you
personally responsible, but since you weren't there at a time
at the time, I guess I can't. But why would
these documents be stored? Why wouldn't they be evaluated, analyzed
to determine if there are other code defendits other than
Epstein and his pamp Julaine Maxwell.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
Well, Nancy, you just hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
And to be clear, I was not at the office
when this case was prosecuted, thankfully, because I do believe
that this was a serious miscarriage of justice. He should
have never gotten the sentence that he got. It was ludicrous.
That said to your question about these this evidence being stored, Well, naturally,
(07:45):
anytime there's a case like this, you would expect that
the evidence is being held somewhere, but it's also generally
available on electronic format. We can see that in the
evidence log that we've received. All that they have given
us so far is this evidence log detailing that there
are in fact, photos, videos, witness statements, a laundry list
(08:09):
of other evidence out there that has never been disclosed
to this day.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Let's just cut through it. Who do you think that
Epstein and Julianne Maxwell his hinch person are hanging out
with nuns and priests and virgins. They're rich, they're child molesters,
they're trafficking young girls. So who do rich people hang
out with Andrea, Other rich people who do you think,
(08:36):
I mean deduction, who is going to be in the
Epstein files? Other rich and influential people just like him.
That's why they're sitting on it.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
That's why, well, that's exactly why someone needs to go
through them, and they need to stop talking about it,
and they need to stop saying they're going to be
prosecuting people and then actually do it.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Guys, you just heard Alena Hubba speaking to our friend
Piers Morgan, and you heard the AGPM BONDI saying we're
on it, We're on it. The files have been stored
in the Southern District of New York. What else does
she have to say?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Director Patel is going to get us a detailed report
as to why the FBI withheld all of those documents.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
That from our friends at Fox News. So they're going
through it all right now, let me understand City Summer
joining me Crime Online dot Com. Epstein died years ago
at MBC Metropolitan Detention Center. How long have they had
(09:43):
since Epstein died to go through these files?
Speaker 7 (09:46):
Nancy?
Speaker 8 (09:46):
Now we're going on six years that they've had the
opportunity to go through these files.
Speaker 9 (09:52):
Release them to the.
Speaker 8 (09:53):
American public and prosecute people who are involved in this
horrific sex trafficking ring.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
So years have passed, you know, I'm gonna circle back
in just a moment to doctor Dwayne Hendricks, former associate
warden at MDC. A lot, a lot of murky water
surrounding the death of Epstein. Just think about it, think
about it. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all,
all right, I don't think people can keep there yet
(10:21):
shut long enough to maintain a conspiracy like OJA was framed.
Didn't happen. However, in this case, what could be the
delay in making these files public? What could possibly be
the delay and us finding out who were the cohorts
(10:42):
and possible codefendants of Jeffrey Epstein and is very wide
ranging child sex trafficking ring, Well we know a little
bit more. Listen.
Speaker 10 (10:53):
After just two weeks in office, Attorney General Pam Bondi
announces the release of documents related to the late Fine
nancier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Bondi says that
the delay in releasing the documents is due to efforts
to redact sensitive information to protect the over two hundred
victims privacy. The so called Phase one release is expected
(11:16):
to include flight logs and names of individuals associated with Epstein.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Okay, Joining me is doctor Kimberly Melman, Erosco, executive director
of Freedom Light, human trafficking expert witness, author of Hidden
and Plane Sight, America, Slaves of the New Millennium. You
have uncovered so much regarding sex trafficking and child sex trafficking.
(11:43):
I've got a pretty good feeling at this point. Epstein's
been dead for years, many say, murdered in MDC because
they they the elusive. They did not want their names
dragged through the mud. So I've got a pretty good
feeling doctor that at this point the victims really don't
(12:04):
care if their names are out there as long as
they can get justice. Who do you think is being
protected by not releasing these documents the victims, because I'm
not buying that.
Speaker 11 (12:13):
Well, Nancy, First, I do disagree with you. I do
think that the victims still do want some anonymity, They
do want their names protected.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
At least some of them.
Speaker 11 (12:21):
The issue here is, and this is something that is
very very key, some of these victims recruited others. Admittedly
this is in the media. They recruited others for payment.
Some of them were able to rebuff his sexual advances
and instead recruited their friends. So where do you draw
the line between victim and co conspirator? And that's an
issue that they're going to have, and they're going to
(12:41):
face the issue that I to.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Get an idea where to draw the line, doctor, doctor
Kimberly melim or Osco. And that would be anyone that
was ever forced into sex or lured into sex with
Jeffrey Epstein, I would consider a victim. Doctor Bethany Marshall,
with me, psychoanalyst. You have analyzed the victims of child
(13:06):
sex trafficking many many times, and these are children as
young as fourteen, and I believe younger. If Epstein or
Julanne Maxwell got one of these little girls to go
speak to her little girlfriends, I still consider the original
girl to be a victim.
Speaker 12 (13:22):
I do too, because Jeffrey Epstein groomed them, and when
a victim is groomed, they lose perspective. And also the
grooming takes place in the context of an interpersonal relationship
where they maybe felt that Epstein was going to be
mad at them. Disappointed in them, maybe withdraw financial reward,
punish them in some way, so that strong, strong attachment
(13:45):
system and confusion over whether they're to blame or he's
to blame is going to drive them towards behaviors that
they would not normally engage in.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Doctor Bethany, I feel sick right now. I think I
just saw a picture of Epstein and Juline Maxwell. When
I think about these two rolling in money, multi millionaires,
homes all over the world, mansions all over the world.
And who do they pick out, Doctor Kimberly melman Erosco.
(14:21):
They pick out runaways. They pick out children, girls from
single parent homes where the mom's working, Like I would
come home from school and nobody be there. Both my
parents were working. But these girls only had one parent
at home, coming from a broken family, feeling bad about themselves,
blaming themselves possibly for the breakup or don't. They targeted
(14:43):
girls with problems and those were their victims. These two
multi millionaires that were born with silver spoons up their
wear ends target these little girls. There they are their
private plane. You know what bite me? Why do they
target little girls like this, Doctor Nancy.
Speaker 11 (15:06):
This is a common tactics that is used by anyone
looking to victimize another. They look for a child or
a person who has a void in their life. If
they look at Maslow's higher give needs. What do they need?
Are they housing insecure, food insecure? Do they have low
self esteem? Do they have the desire for self actualization?
They're making false promises. The reality is though he also
(15:28):
bribed them with money, and it wasn't just little girls
and children, it was adults who were recruiting others. And
those adults also self proclaim to be victims. So that's
the issue here when we're looking through these records. Yes,
I agree with you one hundred percent. Any child who
is manipulated by a grown adult is a victim either
of statutory rape or sexual assault, absolutely bar none. But
(15:51):
the problem here is what happens when adults are being
victimized but also recruiting others. And so this is a
more complex case than I think the public has led
to believe. And the other issue is there are documents
redacted that we should be able to see. For example,
the records related to Jeffrey Epstein's first suicide attempts. Supposedly
(16:15):
it's being redacted for B seven A that redaction is
because of an ongoing investigation, and this is suggestive, suggestive
that it was possible assault and he was reporting that.
And also there are other things that are very suspicious.
His roommate, his cellmate is no longer alive. These are
issues that do need to be further explored, and we
(16:37):
need people like you to dig into and hold these
governmental employees accountable for releasing this information.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace. Mystery surrounding the Epstein files,
as the US Attorney General claims, quote, tens of thousands
of videos, sex videos, child porn. Tens of thousands of
videos are amongst the documents BONDI promised to release months
(17:18):
and months ago. What's the hold up this after a
fourth suicide connected to the Epstein case and alleged suicide,
I might add, I'm talking about Virginia's Guphrey What happened
to Virginia?
Speaker 13 (17:36):
Virginia Geupfree is a sixteen year old locker room attendant
in mar A, Lago when she is approached by socialite
Gallaine Maxwell to work as a traveling messuse for her associate,
American financer Jeffrey Epstein, over the promise of a two
hundred dollars rate permissage. Virginia eagerly accepts her massage.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
My rear end.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
This is just a little girl, like so many of
the other little girls that were lured in by Epstein,
whom many insists did not commit suicide behind bars, lured
in by Epstein and his hitch person bills above from
hell Jelaane Maxwell. Now she at this moment is trying
(18:21):
to seek a presidential pardon. She was convicted for her
role in this. Wow, do you think Virginia's testimony could
have thrown a wrench in that presidential pardon? Think about it?
Joining me an all star panel. But first, two crime stories.
Investigative reporter Dave Mac. You're telling me, Dave Mac, that
(18:45):
Virginia Jeffrey dies of suicide. What's the cause of death,
how did she die? Who was with her? Where was she?
Wasn't she just released from the hospital. You're telling me
that she was released while suicidal? And where did this
happen exactly? Wasn't it near Gabby? Near Gabby, Australia, population
(19:09):
two hundred and sixty eight on the last instance, one
hundred and fifty six males, one hundred and twelve females
median age forty one. Dave Mac, you're telling me that
in near Gabby, Australia, they have a top notch forensics
team that knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that
she committed suicide with a backdrop of three other witnesses,
(19:33):
potential witnesses, and a federal sex ring case. They all
die of suicide, you know, Dave Mac. In Russia, they
push you out of a window. So Dave Mack, tell
me about Virginia's suicide.
Speaker 14 (19:46):
Well, what we know about virginia suicide Nancy actually comes
from her family saying she took her own life. We
don't know anything more than that. Except for this Nancy,
she was actually staying at her She was separated from
her husband and staying at their farmhouse, a one point
three million dollar farmhouse in area as you mentioned, that
(20:07):
is very lightly populated. Her brothers were staying with her
in this farmhouse. She's four weeks removed from leaving the hospital,
as you mentioned, and she is there apparently, if we
are to believe what we're being told, that she committed
suicide in the middle of a million dollar plus farm
(20:30):
mansion and she is the moment.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Dave Mac, I don't recall asking you to put the
farm mansion up on real estate size. Okay, we'll get
back to the as you say, million dollar mansion in
just a moment asking you about the cod Now, we
don't have a cause of death that has not been released.
We don't know if there's been an autopsy here in
the US. Of course, there would be an autopsy immediately
(20:57):
whenever there's a question, was then autopsy? Was there a
toxicology screening? You just stated, Dave Mac, that her family
said it's a suicide. Well, let me differ with you,
because her father, her own father, is calling for an investigation,
as is her sister in law and others. They say
(21:20):
that she specifically stated, if I die, believe me. I
did not commit suicide.
Speaker 14 (21:27):
Listen to this family of Virginia Jeffrey, led by her
father Sky Roberts, are asking her death be investigated. Roberts
tells TMZ Virginia said if she ever died by suicide,
not to believe it. Virginia herself shares comments about suicide
in response to something said on social media, writing, I'm
making it publicly known that in no way, shape or
form in my suicidal. If something happens to me in
(21:49):
the sake of my family, do not let this go
away and help me to protect them. Too many evil
people want to see me quieted.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
So Dave mac, I'm not quite sure where you're getting
your information, but you just heard the father and a
sister in law who is speaking on behalf of the
brother is demanding an investigation. Joining me. Doctor Kendall Crown's
renowned chief medical examiner out of Terrent County That's fort Worth.
(22:18):
Never a lack of business. He has performed literally thousands
of autopsies. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
School of Medicine at TCU and star of a hit
series podcast, Mayhem in the Morgue, set to hit the airwaves,
Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us. Doctor Kendall Crowns,
(22:38):
win at least in the US is an autopsy SOP
standard operating procedure.
Speaker 15 (22:45):
Anytime there's something that's concerning you always have an autopsy.
So if there's a concern for a suicide, an accident,
or a homicide, that individual will be autopsy by a
medical examiner or a forensic pathologist. In cases with natural
deaths where it's unwitnessed or unsuperfied, that they don't have
a medical history, died outside of a hospital or died
(23:07):
within twenty four hours of reaching the hospital, those will
also be autosis. And then of course any child under
the age of six, it's autopsy automatically.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
So in this case, doctor Kendall Crowns, at least in
the US, wouldn't there have been no question at autosic.
Speaker 15 (23:24):
Correct, There's no question there'd be an autopsy on this.
With the history of with the history with Epstein, with
the recent history of a possible car accident, and then
the history of domestic violence, there's all kinds of factors
in play here that could be something that's going on
that makes it not a suicide and can be a homicide.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
We are talking about the suicide of Virginia Gifrey and
this is one of my many, many questions. Where's the
death certificate? What is a ceod? Has there been a funeral?
Where is her body? Don't tell me, She's already been
cremated for Pete's sat destroying any forensic evidence. Who investigated
(24:09):
this The Crack Detectives in near Gabby, Australia, where there
are two hundred and sixty eight people population licenses? Who
found her? How did they find her? Did she hang herself?
Did she take pills? What pills? We're photos taken, we're
(24:32):
measurements taken. And again, what are the odds? What's the likelihood?
And of course that can never be argued to a
jury statistics, But what you roll the dice? What are
the statistics that four witnesses connected to a sex ring,
a proven sex ring of the very rich and powerful,
(24:57):
just as the Fez claim they're going to really all
the documents, including a list of massage therapists. Epstein paid
for her, Virginia Giffrey, to have massage lessons? Is she
on the list? Was she about to be called as
(25:18):
a witness? How did she get tangled up with a perv?
A billionaire, but a perv? Nonetheless like Epstein? This is how.
Speaker 16 (25:29):
Sometimes he would just jerk off in front of them
and rub his nipples. Sometimes he would have intercourse with them.
Sometimes he'd make them, you know, give him blowjobs. It
kind of works like a pyramid scheme. Gaelan brought me in,
I brought other girls in. Those girls brought other girls in.
Speaker 17 (25:45):
Gaelan tells me that.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
I have to do.
Speaker 16 (25:50):
For Andrew what I do for Jeffrey, and that made
me sick.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I just didn't expect.
Speaker 16 (25:59):
It from Royal.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
That is Virginia Giffrey speaking about how she was lured
by Jelane Maxwell as a little girl, told she could
make two hundred dollars an hour if she learned to
be a messus a massage therapist. Well, what that actually
entailed was something very very different and illegal. You know,
(26:21):
when children are molested, they are never the same. They
may look the same to me and you, but on
the inside they never recover. They may learn to go
about their business, hold down a job, try to have
a marriage or a family, They're never the same. Now,
what you were hearing is from our friends at the
(26:41):
Miami Herald and BBC Panorama. That's a Virginia Jeffrey who
vowed to never give up the fight, but she committed
to suicide. Just on the eve of the federal release
of those documents. I'm going to go to a very
special guest. You may not know her name now, but
(27:04):
you will. She, like Virginia was lured in by Epstein,
she actually went to Epstein Island. You know what, I
will let her tell her story. Lisa Phillips is joining
me now.
Speaker 14 (27:23):
She is the.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Star and the host of a podcast from now on,
and it's a real honor to speak with you, Miss Phillips.
How did you meet, if that's the right word, Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 17 (27:39):
So, I was on a.
Speaker 18 (27:40):
Photo shoot in early two thousand at the island of
Tortola in the British West Indies, very close to his island,
and we had a free day, and another young blonde
Polish model who looks like Virginia said, you know, I
have a friend who owns island. He's been so wonderful
(28:01):
to me. He got me my visa to live in
the United States, and so she was just said, you know,
let's go for the day, and so I just said, okay, sure,
I'll go with you.
Speaker 17 (28:11):
And so I went over to the island and.
Speaker 18 (28:15):
I saw two young blonde girls swimming in the pool
with the older gentleman, dark haired gentleman. And then later
on we all had dinner together, hung out for the day,
and later on that evening, a young blonde girl knocked
on my door and told myself and the other blonde
girl that Jeffrey needed a massage or Jeffrey. Actually she
(28:39):
said Jeffrey's ready for his massage, and so I just
was like, what are you talking about? What massage? And
so the other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes you know, massages.
You just you have to do it. So, you know,
I was trapped on the island. I didn't know where
to go. I just you know, followed the girl into
his room to do the masage with this other young girl,
(29:02):
and I ended up being abused on that island.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Lisa, When you say you were abused, what happened?
Speaker 18 (29:07):
Well, like Virginia was explaining the massages, so the massages
turned into you know, touching and into assault.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Were you sex molested Lisa by Jeffrey Epstein?
Speaker 17 (29:21):
Yes, I was.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
You know Lynn Shaw joining me? Does it ever end? Lynn?
Does it ever end? Lynn is the founder director Lyn's Warriors,
committed to ending human trafficking and exploitation of girls, host
of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube? Does it ever end? When
(29:45):
I hear Lisa and I look at her, She's so beautiful,
so articulate, so poised. I mean, Lisa, has your life
ever been the same? I mean mine has has been
the same since I was a victim of violent crime.
It's never been the same. What did that do to you?
Speaker 18 (30:07):
You can see I still get emotional, but I kept
it silent for fifteen years. It wasn't until Jeffrey died
in twenty nineteen and I saw Virginia speak out.
Speaker 17 (30:16):
I thought, Wow, this is a courageous woman.
Speaker 18 (30:19):
Wow, she has like this bravery to speak out about
you know what happened to her with Jeffrey. But it
was her story about Prince Andrew was the reason why
I spoke out. Because I had a young friend, also
a blonde similar to Virginia's look, who was told by
Jeffrey to.
Speaker 17 (30:35):
Go into a room to have sex with the Prince.
Speaker 18 (30:38):
And that memory I always remembered because when I met
Jeffrey for the very first time on the island, I
remembered seeing that man there. So my story connected me
that way Andrew. Yes, yes, Jeffrey introduced me to Prince Andrew.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Disgusting and he's like a tick, sucking the public's money,
living in a mansion. And I'm telling you this girl's
battle now, woman Virginia, Jeffrey's battle with Epstein and Prince Andrew.
She vowed not to give up ever, and I'm supposed
(31:21):
to believe that. She said, Oh yet, you know what,
I won the battle against Andrew Epstein's dance, So now
I'll kill myself. I find that really hard to believe, Lynshaw,
Will it ever end? When I see Andrew trotting around
val Morale or Windsor Castle on eighty thousand dollars horse,
(31:43):
my stomach clinches. He should be in jail. Did you
hear what Lisa just said? Same thing that Virginia said.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Listen, we at the Warriors have spoken with have interviewed
many victims of Jeffrey Epstein. I want us all to
first applaud Lisa for appearing and bravely speaking out. This
takes a lot of strength to keep talking about what happened,
so we must all commend her. Second of all, Virginia Guffrey,
I will never believe killed herself. She bravely came out
(32:16):
as a warrior. And when she did that several years ago,
all of the other victims came forward and said, finally,
finally we have some support, resolution me attention. We're going
to get somewhere. Three facts.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Right away.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
Law enforcement said, no foul play, nothing to see here.
That was number one, Number two. Virginia was in the
process of renovating her house number three. She was standing
for all the other victims. She would not do anything
to harm herself. She wanted to be that warrior for them.
And I have to add a fourth point. I don't
believe she would leave her children. Something happened here. We're
(32:53):
not getting the facts and will it ever d Nancy,
I'm afraid to say, and I don't like saying this. No,
this Epstein's story is never going to end. We're never
going to hear the truth and the facts about all
of this. Too many complicit, powerful people involved.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
And another thing you heard Lynn Shaw say she was
in the middle of her renovation. She was fighting to
see her children. She would never leave them. But what
about this note what she said she was getting ready
to do battle.
Speaker 19 (33:24):
Listen Virginia. Jeffrey's sister in law, Amanda Roberts, wants to
release a quote written by Virginia found in a journal
at her Australian farmhouse. In her own hand, Virginia wrote, mothers, fathers,
sisters and brothers need to show the battle lines are
drawn and we stand together to fight for the future
of victims. Is protesting the answer, I don't know, but
(33:44):
we've got to start somewhere. Jeffrey's brother, Sky Roberts, believes
the note was intended for organizers of the Washington DC
rally of sexual assault Survivors.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
In a section of the note, she writes, we are
not going to go away.
Speaker 13 (33:57):
Sixteen year old Virginia Jeffrey has started work working as
a traveling massuse for financier Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
But not all is as it seems.
Speaker 14 (34:06):
Virginia, just a teen.
Speaker 13 (34:07):
Is being asked to complete tasks that are far outside
of her responsibilities, and soon the tasks turn into sexual
abuse tasks.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
It makes it sound why Epstein's asking her to file documents.
He's asking this teen girl to perform sex acts, oral sex,
raping her, massaging him. It goes on and on, and
she is not the only girl involved. According to a
(34:36):
wide ranging investigation by the federal government, Epstein and his
hintch person basically his pimp, Jelaine Maxwell, another millionaire, had
created somewhat of a Ponzi scheme, a type of structure
(34:58):
where these girls, these young girls would go out and
recruit other young girls to take part in sex acts
with older, wealthy and prestigious. Let me say clients. I
would call them child rapists. But that's just me. And
now we are expected to believe that Virginia Giffrey, just
(35:20):
after all of the battle against Epstein, all of the
battle against Prince Andrew bringing him down on the cusp
of the FEDS releasing more names, she says, Yeah, you
know what, I give up. I'm committing suicide. No cod
no autopsy report, no toxicology report, nothing. I went to
(35:43):
a high school soccer game last night and the other
moms were saying, Virginia Giffrey is probably in the witness
protection program. Yes, that's where it's going. The rumor meal
in high gear and why not without any transparency or clarity.
She is not the first person connected to this investigation
(36:05):
to die off suicide. What about Carolyn Andreano?
Speaker 14 (36:10):
When she was just fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing
Caroly and Andreano and continued to abuse her for the
next four years, testifying against Gilaine Maxwell in her trial
for sex trafficking minors. Carol and Andreano found dead in
a West Palm Beach, Florida hotel room at the age
of thirty six, leaving behind a husband and five children.
West Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose.
(36:33):
Carol and Andreano is the second Epstein survivor to have
died of a fatal drug overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida.
The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose, Lee
sky Patrick, was found dead in a West Palm Beach
hotel from an accidental drug overdose.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
After four alleged suicides connected to the Epstein case. And
whatever is in these documents, isn't it time we know
the truth? Remember when Attorney General William Barr insisted there
will be justice.
Speaker 20 (37:04):
Listen, this case will continue on against anyone who was
complicit with Epstein. Any co conspirators should not rest easy.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Or they're sleeping light logs right now. That's where our
friends at CBS. That was Attorney then Attorney General William
Barr insisting there's going to be justice. All of you
co defendants. You better not sleep easy tonight. Well they
are because years have passed and the FEDS have done nothing.
(37:39):
Why Because Epstein's rich, All of his friends were rich
and influential. He was flying around presidents, megalomaniacs, huge huge
business tycoons names we all know very well. We're in
his quote little black book. It's disgusting. And here is
(38:03):
former US attorney jumping on the bandwagon, Attorney alex Acosta.
Speaker 21 (38:10):
We did what we did because we wanted to see
Epstein go to jail, so he needed to go to jail.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Alexander Acosta became US Attorney for the Southern District of
Florida in two thousand and five. That's the same year
that Palm Beach police began a thirteen month undercover investigation
of Jeffrey Epstein after allegations of sex trafficking miners. Epstein
was indicted, but Acosta arranged a plea deal without informing
the victims, that allowed Epstein to plead guilty to a
(38:41):
single state charge of solicitation and procuring a miner for prostitution.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
The FBI delivers truckloads of files to be declassified in
the Jeffrey Epstein case.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
According to the top cop of this country, Pamela Bondi,
that's happening right now. I will believe it when I
see it, because this dates back all the way to
a secret deal by the prosecutor down and Palm Beach
where Epstein got basically a camp. He could leave whenever
(39:13):
he wanted to, with a valet, a driver, and nobody
said a word. After one mom comes forward and says,
he raped my little girl, and we still don't have justice.
Has everybody forgotten what happened? Because I haven't, you know,
(39:33):
let me jog the federal government's memory. Listen.
Speaker 16 (39:38):
Sometimes he would just get in front of them and
rub his nipples. Sometimes he would have intercourse with them.
Sometimes he'd make them, you know, give him. It kind
of worked like a pyramid scheme. Geland brought me in,
I brought other girls in. Those girls brought other girls in.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
That's where my friends at Miami Harold and you were
seeing Virginia Roberts Jeffrey speaking about what happened to her.
Would you she was a little girl, a little girl
about age fourteen. Yeah, rubbing his nipples in front of
a little girl, and we find out just who the
(40:16):
victim is.
Speaker 16 (40:18):
I had been a runaway and I had been abused before.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
So to have this ability to get educated.
Speaker 17 (40:25):
And do something with my life.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
I thought I was turning around. That from our friends
at Miami Harold, but that turning point turned into this
she is instructed to just robe as Maxwell and Epstein
are both naked. She describes maxwellen Epstein touching her and
that she went along with it. Virginia says, I let
them abuse me, and I did what they told me
to do. Doctor Bethy Marshall, she's an adult now, but
(40:49):
it still sounds to me like she's blaming herself. I
let them abuse me. That's not the dynamic.
Speaker 12 (40:58):
No, no, no, no, it was a poweredential. It was
two on one.
Speaker 5 (41:02):
She was just a little girl.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
You know, children notoriously they don't.
Speaker 12 (41:06):
Know when they're abused if the act is coming from
themselves or from the other person. So this confusion is
persisting into adult life. Victims don't just recover miraculously. They
blame themselves throughout the lifespan. They are subject to disturbed
relationship patterns, sometimes drug abuse, PTSD flashbacks.
Speaker 11 (41:28):
So you know the fact that she's.
Speaker 12 (41:30):
Coming forward amidst all these symptoms that are persisting for
her is pretty remarkable, you.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Know, Notton Bethany when you mentioned flashbacks. A lot of
people don't believe in suppress memories. They're real, And I'll
give you an example. One of my best friends within
the District Attorney's office. Just a brilliant, brilliant legal mind.
I had known her for three or four years. She
started having flashbacks being molested by family member. It destroyed
(41:59):
her man. She ended up getting a divorce the child.
They had a child that was in shuttle back and
forth between the parents, and her life was turned upside
down when she remembered the molestation. And even now you
hear JR. Fraid talking about I let them molest me,
as if somehow it was her fault. Okay, So you've
(42:20):
got a secret deal with the cost to down a
palm beach. Then you've got bar saying we will see justice.
Well that never happened. Now you've got Bondie saying we're
releasing the files. Well when when will there be justice?
You know, I'm just very curious to doctor Kimberly Melman
(42:42):
Erosco executive director of Freedom Like Human Trafficking expert witness,
author of Hidden in Plane Sight, America Slaves of the
New Millennium. Do you recall the case that you analyzed
of Spider aka doctor James Joseph.
Speaker 11 (43:00):
So James Joseph was on America's Most Wanted investigation Discovery brutally,
brutally trafficked multiple women. He also got a sweetheart deal
the first time he was prosecuted. I think he got
eighteen months despite violently violently trafficking women. It wasn't until
years later, as he continued to commit his crimes where
(43:21):
he was prosecuted in California. I served as an expert
witness both to the grand journey for his indictment and
at trial where he was sentenced to life in prison.
So when they talk about this sweet sweetheart deal for Epstein,
it wasn't really out of the norm for that time. Unfortunately, unfortunately,
there are numerous alleged traffickers and persons committing crimes against
(43:43):
children who are getting away with slap on the hand
sentences because it's being perceived as difficult to prosecute.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
And one key point here, Nancy.
Speaker 11 (43:52):
Is that Epstein was a typical of a trafficker. He
was paying his victims, typically in trafficking situations. You have
talked about in your show numerous times following the money,
and I agree with that wholeheartedly, especially in trafficking situations.
Most of the time, for trafficking, the money is flowing
from the victim to the trafficker.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
It was the complete.
Speaker 11 (44:14):
Opposite in this situation, and therefore it might have been
perceived as difficult to prosecute. The thing that is extremely
important here, though, was the concealing this from the alleged victims,
concealing this from the girls that he did abuse in
waiting until afterwards. I think that is the key problem here.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Unless Bondi comes through on this, this will be another
case of the rich and powerful prevailing on those weaker,
less cunning than they are, specifically these girls that were
raped and sex trafficked by Epstein and as wealthy and
(44:54):
influential friends. When will the documents be released? You real
think they're sitting on them to protect the victims, because
I don't. This goes so far back. In fact, I
remember when renowned attorney David Boyce, who is Virginia Geffray's lawyer,
(45:15):
spoke out.
Speaker 22 (45:16):
It doesn't matter how many contacts you have, doesn't matter
who your family is, doesn't matter how much wealth do
you have. You're not a buffalow.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
That's where our friends at ITV News. That was David
boys when you represented Virginia Geffrey. He says, it doesn't
matter how rich you are. How powerful you are, but
apparently it may.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
Despite a long awaited document release, many files remain secret
and Jeffrey Epstein's contentious sex trafficking scandal.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Why why why are the files secret? Trump promised the
files would be released, but they haven't been. Why why
Bondie now listen to Presidential Counselor Alina Haba with our
friend Piers Morgan.
Speaker 23 (46:06):
I don't see how it's not shocking that there were
so many individuals that were hidden and kept secret and
not been held accountable.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I don't like it, but I'm not shocked because this
has been going on since the get go with Epstein.
That's from our friend Piers Morgan Uncensored and more from Haba.
Speaker 23 (46:27):
You have to hold individuals who are indeed rapists accountable.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
We have to have them tried. In my opinion, yes, okay,
of course they have to be tried, but the files
have to be released first so we can determine who,
if anyone, is going to be tried. And we're not
getting out of Epstein because he either committed suicide or
was killed at MDC. That from our friend at Piers Morgan.
Piers Morgan Uncensored and Bondie the new US Attorney General
(46:59):
speaks out, You're.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Looking at these documents, going, these aren't all the Epstein files.
You know, there were flight logs, there were names and victims' names,
and we're going, where's the rest of the.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Stuff, BONDI with our friends over at Fox and you
speaking out, Yeah, where is the rest of the stuff? Well,
apparently sitting in boxes at the Southern District of New
York's US Attorney's office. That's a mystery right there. But
it goes on and on and on, seemingly a never
ending quest to keep these names secret. Sidney Summer joining
(47:28):
me crime online dot com, Sydney. What are the files?
What do we think is in the files that have
been so carefully hidden from US fancy.
Speaker 9 (47:39):
We've seen flight logs, a contact list, a new evidence list,
and what prosecutors are calling a masseuse list that contained
two hundred and fifty four named victims. But what we
expect to see.
Speaker 8 (47:54):
Is a client list.
Speaker 11 (47:56):
That's what everybody wants to know.
Speaker 8 (47:57):
We have his contacts, but this is just somebody's phone contacts.
It doesn't necessarily incriminate any of the people that are
named in that contact list. What we do want is
the client list people who actively participated in the sex
trafficking ring, knowing that the women there providing massages were underage.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
It is known that on Epstein's private plane, he would
ferry underage girls, along with high profile US citizens and others,
to his private island for what to play a game
with checkers. No, that's not why. Speaking of this so
called client list listen well.
Speaker 14 (48:40):
Many were expecting Epstein's client list, hoping it would contain
bombshell implications. The majority of the roughly two hundred page
document dump is made up of previously disseminated information, like
Epstein's contact list.
Speaker 24 (48:51):
Among famous names in Epstein's contact lists are rockers McJagger
and Courtney Love, Michael Jackson, actors Alec Baldwin, Dust Hoffman
and Ralph Fiennis, and supermodels Naomi Campbell and Liz Hurley.
Others include Harvey Weinstein's brother Bob Weinstein, David Coach, Alan Dershowitz,
and both Evanna and Evanka Trump. Several political figures are
(49:14):
also named, former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, John Kerry,
John Huntsman, Senator Ted Kennedy, his sister in law Ethel Kennedy,
and her daughter Carrie Kennedy.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Okay, I doubt Ethel Kennedy or Carrie Kennedy were involved
in child sex trafficking. I doubt that Alan Dershowitz, my colleague,
is involved in sex trafficking. Maybe none of these people.
But isn't it true, Doctor Bethany Marshall, People like Epstein
(49:48):
insinuated himself into circles of power and privilege. That does
not mean everybody on his client list has done anything wrong.
I mean, do you I really think Carrie Kennedy and
Ethel Kennedy had anything to do with this? Hell no,
but no. In all of these documents, you know, there's
(50:08):
probative evidence, So I'm not surprised that these rich and
powerful people are in his list.
Speaker 12 (50:13):
But you know, Nancy, from another perspective, we know that
pedophiles congregate together, they congregate online, they disseminate photos, they
exchange information. So I don't understand why law enforcement would
go online to track pedophiles through their contact lists. But
Jeffrey Epstein's contact list is exempt from the public.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
That doesn't make sense.
Speaker 12 (50:36):
I may I agree with you that Ethel Kennedy and
some of these people obviously did not know what was
going on. But there are many wolves among the sheep,
and if you do not expose this contact list, then
we don't know who those people are. And I just
want to say, all those smiley photos of Epstein and
Gilan Maxwell, they're not smiling because they're a couple. They're
(50:59):
smiling because they're recruiting people with money and all the
resources are flowing up and they're in there with all
these high net worth individuals and that is making them
so so so.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Happy, you know. To Angie Lewis joining US partner Sirce
law from in Palm Beach, excellent trial lawyer, former felony
prosecutor in Palm Beach. There were grand jury tapes that
have just recently been revealed, grand jury tapes that the
(51:32):
evidence was heard in front of the grand jury that
were recorded as is customary. Are you surprised, based on
what you've learned from those grand jury tapes that these
documents today, these years later, are being kept secret.
Speaker 6 (51:49):
The victims who testified were asked a series of questions
about being essentially being prostitutes and really almost in an
accusatory manner, almost incriminating them in terms of some criminal
activity and so what cave of that, of course, and
what everyone has seen in these transcripts was that the
(52:11):
prosecutors knew, the police knew even back then what Epstein
was up to and how terrible what he was involved in.
Speaker 17 (52:21):
Yet we know what ended up happening.
Speaker 6 (52:22):
So no, I mean, at this point, obviously that should
be a clear indicator that further investigation is warranted and
that there are other people out there who need to
be imprisoned.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
And of course what she just said, what angel Lewis
just said, is critical because when you force a little
girl to be a prostitute, when Epstein Angeline Maxwell forced
them to be prostitutes, there had to be a john.
There had to be a John.
Speaker 4 (52:50):
Who are the Johns?
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Why aren't the files being released? Crime Stories? With Nancy
Grace Speaking of Jeffrey Epstein, his name has been thrown
around quite a bit lately in the Shawn Combs trial
(53:16):
because Shawn Comb's chief of staff, Christina Korum, never testified
at trial, and she was widely compared to Jeffrey Epstein's
chief hitch person, Julane Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Epstein's over the top seventy seven million dollar Manhattan mansion
has eight stories nineteen thousand square feet, forty rooms, and
a heated sidewalk. When the FBI raided the home, they
found a lead lined panic room beneath the stairs and
a life sized female doll hanging from a chandelier. Inside
a hidden safe, agent's found seventy thousand dollars in cash,
(53:51):
forty eight loose diamonds, another jewelry, a bit of hard drives,
and a passport from a foreign country with a picture
of Epstein under another name. There were binders upon binders
of CDs filled with loot photos of young girls.
Speaker 4 (54:06):
The Department of Justice releases phase one of declassified Epstein
files as more documents are expected.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
According to the top cop in this country, Pam Bondi
and her counselor Alena Habbaugh, counselor to the President, their quote,
absolutely will be prosecutions question. When all the documents haven't
been released, they've been in storage. That's a nice way
to put it. In the Southern District of New York
US Attorney's Office, now I want you to hear from
(54:37):
the horse's mouth, the US Attorney General, Pamel Bondi.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
Director Patel is going to get us a detailed report
as to why the FBI withheld all of those documents.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
That's why our friend's over at Fox News and I
can't wait. Do you think that detailed explanation about why
the documents were withheld will ever see the light day?
You know what, I don't care why. I just want
to know that justice is being pursued. Let's get back
to the fact that we're missing one main witness, and
(55:10):
that would be Jeffrey Epstein. Why why is he dead?
Doctor Dwayne Hendricks, former associate warden at m d C, author,
who are you see it? Say it? Seize it now?
President of a new Daylight Foundation. You know, many experts,
not just me, question whether it was a suicide. Why
(55:34):
did that happen? Doctor Hendrix?
Speaker 21 (55:36):
Based on the factors of what we what we know,
it was a colossal failure unfortunately by the agency that
I worked for for a number of years, with the staff,
you know, not tending to counting and being accountable for mister.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Uh okay speak English, Speak English, who did what?
Speaker 21 (55:56):
Apparently he committed suicide and it was over three hours
before they actually went and checked the cell. They're supposed
to do thirty minute round.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Parent committed suicide, you know, Doctor Dwayne Hendrix. I really
respect you, but aren't you just a little embarrassed right now?
Apparently he committed suicide like we don't really know, Pays.
The guards that were supposed to watch him every thirty
minutes were shopping online and.
Speaker 21 (56:24):
Asleep, yes, and they should have treated him like they
eventually treated Dulane Maxwell when she was at the NBC,
not MCC And they should have had staff sitting in
front of his cell monitoring his all of his actions
and his behaviors. When I was a correction officer back
in the late nineties, you know, had the I was.
(56:44):
I was with tech Zinski there at FDC Dublin, and
they put too they put cameras in his cell, and
they probably should have did that with Epstein. The other
failure out in mind.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Now Again, I deply respect you and what you're doing now,
but could it would have should have? Ain't helping me tonight.
I'm trying to figure out was he murdered or did
he commit suicide? Because a lot of renowned experts, not
lawyers like myself, but medical examiners say he did not
commit suicide, which leads me to concerns about Julaine Maxwell.
(57:20):
The only other potential witness in this case. Oh, here
we have the Attorney General, William Barr, weighing in.
Speaker 25 (57:28):
I was appalled, and indeed the whole department was and
frankly angry to learn of the MCC's failure to adequately
secure this prisoner.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
Appalled, shocked, angry. That's where our friends at CBS. But
yet the main witness against potential co defendants in those
files is now dead. Darn what a coinkydink the way
that worked out? Joining me, Doctor Kendall Crown's renowned chief
(58:03):
medical examiner Terran County. That's fort Worth. He is esteemed
lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Launching
a new podcast, Doctor Kendall crowns. I know there is
evidence supporting both sides of this, but what tends to
suggest this was not a suicide.
Speaker 7 (58:23):
So there's a couple of problems with it. The injuries
he has the next structures, the thyroid cartilage which is
right about here, and the hyoid bone which is about here.
He has fractures, two fractures on the thyroid cartilage, one
in the highoid bone, and it's odd for him to
have so many fractures with just a simple hanging. Usually
(58:44):
with a simple hanging, the ligature kind of pulls up
on the neck, compresses the structure and causes them to die,
especially with a large sheep type hanging. And what we're
seeing is with these fractures is he potentially has got
this ligature wrapped around his neck, pulling back and causing
these fractures, and then if he moves, it can cause
(59:06):
another fracture. So it's odd that he has these two fractures.
And then you throw in the fact that he has
contusions on his wrists. Was he restrained? You have a
couple of a couple of findings that make it very
strange that it could be a suicide, but it also
could be a homicide. And it's just not very clear.
Speaker 1 (59:25):
When you say there were factors that were strange, I
could not agree more. But what are to what are
you referring.
Speaker 7 (59:32):
The contusions on the wrists. I don't feel that there
are the bruises on the wrists. I don't feel they're
being very clear about what those look like or how
they are. Because his hands could have been tied together
with another restraint or another piece of sheet.
Speaker 1 (59:46):
Hey dirigental crowns we're looking at the scene right there,
and the only way he could have committed suicide is
to tie the binding that he created to the bunk man.
He obviously didn't have any platf from high enough for
a traditional hanging, he would have to have tie that
and they just leaned forward and let the pressure asphyxiate him.
(01:00:09):
How likely is that correct?
Speaker 7 (01:00:12):
I mean, that's a type of the way it is.
He can't suspend himself or anything of that nature. He's
going to have to lean into it, and again that's
going to be a slow kind of pressure on his neck.
So these fractures that we have are very, very odd
that he has so many fractures.
Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
From just dolector Kendall crowns. They don't fit, do they
with suicide?
Speaker 7 (01:00:32):
It is odd. It doesn't really fit. So I'd have
to have more explanation, more information to even make a
decision on that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
I'm not a Republican and I'm not a Democrat, but
I beg you Trump, do not pardon Julane Maxwell. Don't
do it. Huge miscarriage of justice. Joining me now, special
guest Bill Daily, former FBI investigator, security expert Bill Daily.
You know the ins and outs of the fares like
(01:01:03):
the back of your hand. What is happening? When can
we get the names in these documents?
Speaker 26 (01:01:08):
Well, Nancy, certainly, there's been basically a truckload of documents
now brought down to the Attorney General's office and they're
going through them. There will be some time to kind
of pull this all together because they're going to be
various investigative elements. There's going to be interviews, there's going
to be injury statements. There's going to be other information
out there, whether it's hard drives, whether it's videos, whatever.
Documentation also was found, whether in one of the homes
(01:01:32):
or the homes. So it's going to take a while
to pull it together.
Speaker 14 (01:01:34):
You know.
Speaker 26 (01:01:35):
One of the things that always has troubled me about
this case many things. Certainly it was the circumstances around
mister Epstein's death in the correctional facility in Lower Manhattan,
but it was also around other people who either material
witnesses or those people who ate it and bedded. There
are many people who are involved in this case where
it happens to be people who attending at the Epstein homes,
(01:01:55):
whether it's pilots or crew on the aircraft who both
probably knew or were aware of what was happening, saw
these young women being brought on, saw some of the perpetrators,
some of the victimizers also being transported around those people
who am not too sure why we never heard either
statements about them or whether they themselves were complicit in
(01:02:18):
some ways if not given a pardon.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Bill Daly, former FBI investigator, Phensic photography expert, security expert.
Do you ever just get sick to your stomach to
see how wealthy and powerful people are protected they never
face justice.
Speaker 26 (01:02:40):
Nancy, and I think the American people also feel the
same way. The new administration is run in transparency. The
new FBI director has come forth saying he would be
very transparent, so has the Attorney General.
Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
I believe them. I want that to happen.
Speaker 26 (01:02:55):
I want the top of the American people because so
many of us have seen some of these cases go
and come, and we say, why is it always just
the kind of the regular folks that you find yourselves
being put in jail, and it's the other people who's
very obviously have committed some of these these acts, are
certainly never held their feet to the fire from a
prosecution standpoint. So in this case, I really hope that
(01:03:16):
this will result in some of these victims, these people
with victimize that there be some justice for them. At
the same time, I also am concerned about missus Maxwell
and our safety because as more of this comes about,
as more information comes to light, is that her life
could be at risk, whether in or outside the confines
(01:03:37):
of a penitentiary.
Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
You know, I'm glad you brought that up Bill Daily
to doctor Dwayne Hendricks, former Associate warden MDC Dodger Hendricks.
Right now, Daine Maxwell is in the FCI formal Florida
Correctional Institute in Tallahassee, and it is low security. If
(01:04:01):
someone can murder Epstein and high security, what about low security,
doctor Hendrix, Well, one.
Speaker 21 (01:04:09):
Thing, anybody can be killed anywhere, whether it's in the
correctional facility, whether it's maximum or minimum or anywhere. But
I will say if there were any threats, So if
there were any credible threats to her life. You know,
the agency does have an excellent intel office. They do
a lot of work with other agencies to include the FBI.
(01:04:31):
The staff are members of the Joint Task for Wait
a minute, Wait a.
Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Minute, Henri. Did you just hear doctor Kimberly melmont or
Rossco state that Epstein was in fear for his life
at the time he died. So who is going Nobody
protected him? Who is going to protect Jawayne Maxwell.
Speaker 21 (01:04:52):
It'll be the same people, different staff, It'll be the
same agency and staff and other law enforcement personnelit if
there's any credible threats, they will place her in special
housing and if they would need to move her to
a different facility, they would do so at that time.
But again, anyone could be touched at any time, unfortunately,
(01:05:14):
and if she feels she's in fear of her life,
she needs to at any time, she needs to report
that to staff, and she needs to check try to
get herself checked into special housing or remove from that facility.
And that's just how that works.
Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
The last one heard of is Layne Maxwell. She was
finding about her Thanksgiving dinner. What about it Sydney summer? Yeah, Nancy.
Speaker 8 (01:05:35):
So Maxwell is apparently claiming that she has limited funds
and her commissary is empty, meaning she went hungry on
Thanksgiving Day.
Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
I find that very hard to believe. It may not
be a private chef like she's used to with Epstein,
but I find it very difficult to believe that the
inmates wouldn't get fed at the FCI.
Speaker 17 (01:05:54):
You know what, maybe.
Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
She'd like a little bump up to a better jail
in exchange for her testimony. Think about it, Maxwell. We
wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Good evening, everybody. I'm Nancy Grace,
and this is the Friday Night special Crime Stories, and
tonight does it never end? With Jeffrey Epstein, even from
(00:22):
the grave, the man is causing chaos amongst crime victims.
This after four people connected to the case have died
allegedly by suicide, including the most recent sex attack victim,
sex attack child victim, Virginia Giffrey. Mystery surrounding the Jeffrey
(00:43):
Epstein files after the United States ag Bondi claims quote
tens of thousands of videos. I'm Nancy Grace, this is
Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
Very surprising statement from the US Attorney General, Pam Bondie.
(01:05):
The White House promises to release more files from its
sex trafficking investigation of jeff Epstein. The FBI, according to Bondy,
is reviewing quote tens of thousands of videos of Epstein
quote with children or child porn. Okay, what a sicco
(01:31):
Uh what do we know? The comment made by Bondi
was made after a similar remark made to a stranger
with a hidden camera, and it raises stakes for Bondy
to prove she has in her possession unseen and compelling evidence.
Now recall this is after Bondi promised a document dump,
(01:56):
she talked about it and angered many elements of the
government when the documents were not delivered Yet now weeks
after the AG's remarks, it still remains unclear to what
she was referring and when the documents would be released.
(02:17):
What's the hold up? Who is in those videos? Who
is named in the documents? On the heels of yet
another suicide linked to these documents and this case talking
about Virginia's Gufray. What's happening?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Six years after his death, convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein
is back in the news, and despite the FBI maintaining
that the millionaire financier committed suicide in prison, doubts. Lingerer
added to that phray is the fact that the FBI
released prison video of Epstein had nearly three minutes cut
(02:58):
out of it before it was made public. The video
is from the only camera near Epstein's cell the night
before he was found dead, and it had been described
as the full raw video. The roughly eleven hour video
was released in an effort to stave off the continued
rumors that foul play was involved in Epstein's death, news
(03:20):
of three missing minutes is just fanning the flames. Attorney
General Pambondy has attributed the three minute discrepancy to a
nightly system reset. It's unclear if the missing footage could
show anything relevant. The existence of Epstein documents is also
garnering headlines. Government officials confirmed there is no Epstein client list,
(03:42):
meaning wealthy and powerful men who were provided with underaged
girls for sex. Attorney General Pambondy released what she called
the first phase of the declassified Epstein files in February,
flight logs, an evidence list, and a redacted list of
content acts. The AG said at the time the Justice
(04:03):
Department will release more files after redacting victims' names. When asked,
Bondi said a list of Epstein's clients was on her
desk for review, but in this month's memo, the Justice
Department said there was no incriminating client list, and when
pressed about it at a press conference, Bondy sidestepped.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
The issue today is about fentanyl overdoses throughout our country
and people who have lost loved ones to fentanyl. That's
the message that we're here to send today. Nothing about Epstein.
I'm not going to talk about Epstein.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
The July memo stated, quote, there was no credible evidence
found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions.
We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation
against uncharged third parties with the political for growing. President
Donald Trump said on Thursday that he asked Attorney General
(04:58):
Bondy to release grand jury test Stimoni related to Epstein's
criminal prosecution. Bondy replied in a social media post, President Trump,
we are ready to move the court tomorrow to unseal
the grand jury transcripts.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
What do we believe is in the documents? Let's start
with that.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
New Epstein files are teased to be released as Attorney
General Pam Bundy promises many more files to come.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Presidential counselor Alena Haba says that prosecutions will absolutely go
forward based on what is discovered in the Epstein files.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
But who, what, where, when? Why?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Listen to Haba, do you think by releasing information from
these files we are likely to see criminal actions being taken? Absolutely?
There is Hava speaking to our friend Piers Morgan on
Piers Morgan Uncensored and she's joined with the US Attorney General,
Pam Bondy.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
A source had told me where the documents were being kept,
Southern District of New York.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Shock.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So we got them all by, hopefully all of them
Friday at eight am, thousands of pages of documents that.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
From our friends at Fox News. That is the US
Attorney General, the top cop for our entire country. Now
they are saying that documents have been stored. I don't
know what that means in the Southern District of New
York now, she said, shocker. I'm not sure what she
means by that. I can only suppose, so I'll move forward. Stored.
(06:38):
Why are they being stored? I don't understand that, because
let me go straight out to Angrea Lewis joining me
now partner at Sercy Law form in Palm Beach, Florida.
But for my purposes former felony prosecutor in Palm Beach County.
When Epstein's sweetheart deal, it makes me sick gag when
(06:59):
I think about that deal. I should probably hold you
personally responsible, but since you weren't there at a time
at the time, I guess I can't. But why would
these documents be stored? Why wouldn't they be evaluated, analyzed
to determine if there are other code defendits other than
Epstein and his pamp Julaine Maxwell.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
Well, Nancy, you just hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
And to be clear, I was not at the office
when this case was prosecuted, thankfully, because I do believe
that this was a serious miscarriage of justice. He should
have never gotten the sentence that he got. It was ludicrous.
That said to your question about these this evidence being stored, Well, naturally,
(07:45):
anytime there's a case like this, you would expect that
the evidence is being held somewhere, but it's also generally
available on electronic format. We can see that in the
evidence log that we've received. All that they have given
us so far is this evidence log detailing that there
are in fact, photos, videos, witness statements, a laundry list
(08:09):
of other evidence out there that has never been disclosed
to this day.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Let's just cut through it. Who do you think that
Epstein and Julianne Maxwell his hinch person are hanging out
with nuns and priests and virgins. They're rich, they're child molesters,
they're trafficking young girls. So who do rich people hang
out with Andrea, Other rich people who do you think,
(08:36):
I mean deduction, who is going to be in the
Epstein files? Other rich and influential people just like him.
That's why they're sitting on it.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
That's why, well, that's exactly why someone needs to go
through them, and they need to stop talking about it,
and they need to stop saying they're going to be
prosecuting people and then actually do it.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Guys, you just heard Alena Hubba speaking to our friend
Piers Morgan, and you heard the AGPM BONDI saying we're
on it, We're on it. The files have been stored
in the Southern District of New York. What else does
she have to say?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Director Patel is going to get us a detailed report
as to why the FBI withheld all of those documents.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
That from our friends at Fox News. So they're going
through it all right now, let me understand City Summer
joining me Crime Online dot Com. Epstein died years ago
at MBC Metropolitan Detention Center. How long have they had
(09:43):
since Epstein died to go through these files?
Speaker 7 (09:46):
Nancy?
Speaker 8 (09:46):
Now we're going on six years that they've had the
opportunity to go through these files.
Speaker 9 (09:52):
Release them to the.
Speaker 8 (09:53):
American public and prosecute people who are involved in this
horrific sex trafficking ring.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
So years have passed, you know, I'm gonna circle back
in just a moment to doctor Dwayne Hendricks, former associate
warden at MDC. A lot, a lot of murky water
surrounding the death of Epstein. Just think about it, think
about it. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all,
all right, I don't think people can keep there yet
(10:21):
shut long enough to maintain a conspiracy like OJA was framed.
Didn't happen. However, in this case, what could be the
delay in making these files public? What could possibly be
the delay and us finding out who were the cohorts
(10:42):
and possible codefendants of Jeffrey Epstein and is very wide
ranging child sex trafficking ring, Well we know a little
bit more. Listen.
Speaker 10 (10:53):
After just two weeks in office, Attorney General Pam Bondi
announces the release of documents related to the late Fine
nancier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Bondi says that
the delay in releasing the documents is due to efforts
to redact sensitive information to protect the over two hundred
victims privacy. The so called Phase one release is expected
(11:16):
to include flight logs and names of individuals associated with Epstein.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Okay, Joining me is doctor Kimberly Melman, Erosco, executive director
of Freedom Light, human trafficking expert witness, author of Hidden
and Plane Sight, America, Slaves of the New Millennium. You
have uncovered so much regarding sex trafficking and child sex trafficking.
(11:43):
I've got a pretty good feeling at this point. Epstein's
been dead for years, many say, murdered in MDC because
they they the elusive. They did not want their names
dragged through the mud. So I've got a pretty good
feeling doctor that at this point the victims really don't
(12:04):
care if their names are out there as long as
they can get justice. Who do you think is being
protected by not releasing these documents the victims, because I'm
not buying that.
Speaker 11 (12:13):
Well, Nancy, First, I do disagree with you. I do
think that the victims still do want some anonymity, They
do want their names protected.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
At least some of them.
Speaker 11 (12:21):
The issue here is, and this is something that is
very very key, some of these victims recruited others. Admittedly
this is in the media. They recruited others for payment.
Some of them were able to rebuff his sexual advances
and instead recruited their friends. So where do you draw
the line between victim and co conspirator? And that's an
issue that they're going to have, and they're going to
(12:41):
face the issue that I to.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Get an idea where to draw the line, doctor, doctor
Kimberly melim or Osco. And that would be anyone that
was ever forced into sex or lured into sex with
Jeffrey Epstein, I would consider a victim. Doctor Bethany Marshall,
with me, psychoanalyst. You have analyzed the victims of child
(13:06):
sex trafficking many many times, and these are children as
young as fourteen, and I believe younger. If Epstein or
Julanne Maxwell got one of these little girls to go
speak to her little girlfriends, I still consider the original
girl to be a victim.
Speaker 12 (13:22):
I do too, because Jeffrey Epstein groomed them, and when
a victim is groomed, they lose perspective. And also the
grooming takes place in the context of an interpersonal relationship
where they maybe felt that Epstein was going to be
mad at them. Disappointed in them, maybe withdraw financial reward,
punish them in some way, so that strong, strong attachment
(13:45):
system and confusion over whether they're to blame or he's
to blame is going to drive them towards behaviors that
they would not normally engage in.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Doctor Bethany, I feel sick right now. I think I
just saw a picture of Epstein and Juline Maxwell. When
I think about these two rolling in money, multi millionaires,
homes all over the world, mansions all over the world.
And who do they pick out, Doctor Kimberly melman Erosco.
(14:21):
They pick out runaways. They pick out children, girls from
single parent homes where the mom's working, Like I would
come home from school and nobody be there. Both my
parents were working. But these girls only had one parent
at home, coming from a broken family, feeling bad about themselves,
blaming themselves possibly for the breakup or don't. They targeted
(14:43):
girls with problems and those were their victims. These two
multi millionaires that were born with silver spoons up their
wear ends target these little girls. There they are their
private plane. You know what bite me? Why do they
target little girls like this, Doctor Nancy.
Speaker 11 (15:06):
This is a common tactics that is used by anyone
looking to victimize another. They look for a child or
a person who has a void in their life. If
they look at Maslow's higher give needs. What do they need?
Are they housing insecure, food insecure? Do they have low
self esteem? Do they have the desire for self actualization?
They're making false promises. The reality is though he also
(15:28):
bribed them with money, and it wasn't just little girls
and children, it was adults who were recruiting others. And
those adults also self proclaim to be victims. So that's
the issue here when we're looking through these records. Yes,
I agree with you one hundred percent. Any child who
is manipulated by a grown adult is a victim either
of statutory rape or sexual assault, absolutely bar none. But
(15:51):
the problem here is what happens when adults are being
victimized but also recruiting others. And so this is a
more complex case than I think the public has led
to believe. And the other issue is there are documents
redacted that we should be able to see. For example,
the records related to Jeffrey Epstein's first suicide attempts. Supposedly
(16:15):
it's being redacted for B seven A that redaction is
because of an ongoing investigation, and this is suggestive, suggestive
that it was possible assault and he was reporting that.
And also there are other things that are very suspicious.
His roommate, his cellmate is no longer alive. These are
issues that do need to be further explored, and we
(16:37):
need people like you to dig into and hold these
governmental employees accountable for releasing this information.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace. Mystery surrounding the Epstein files,
as the US Attorney General claims, quote, tens of thousands
of videos, sex videos, child porn. Tens of thousands of
videos are amongst the documents BONDI promised to release months
(17:18):
and months ago. What's the hold up this after a
fourth suicide connected to the Epstein case and alleged suicide,
I might add, I'm talking about Virginia's Guphrey What happened
to Virginia?
Speaker 13 (17:36):
Virginia Geupfree is a sixteen year old locker room attendant
in mar A, Lago when she is approached by socialite
Gallaine Maxwell to work as a traveling messuse for her associate,
American financer Jeffrey Epstein, over the promise of a two
hundred dollars rate permissage. Virginia eagerly accepts her massage.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
My rear end.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
This is just a little girl, like so many of
the other little girls that were lured in by Epstein,
whom many insists did not commit suicide behind bars, lured
in by Epstein and his hitch person bills above from
hell Jelaane Maxwell. Now she at this moment is trying
(18:21):
to seek a presidential pardon. She was convicted for her
role in this. Wow, do you think Virginia's testimony could
have thrown a wrench in that presidential pardon? Think about it?
Joining me an all star panel. But first, two crime stories.
Investigative reporter Dave Mac. You're telling me, Dave Mac, that
(18:45):
Virginia Jeffrey dies of suicide. What's the cause of death,
how did she die? Who was with her? Where was she?
Wasn't she just released from the hospital. You're telling me
that she was released while suicidal? And where did this
happen exactly? Wasn't it near Gabby? Near Gabby, Australia, population
(19:09):
two hundred and sixty eight on the last instance, one
hundred and fifty six males, one hundred and twelve females
median age forty one. Dave Mac, you're telling me that
in near Gabby, Australia, they have a top notch forensics
team that knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that
she committed suicide with a backdrop of three other witnesses,
(19:33):
potential witnesses, and a federal sex ring case. They all
die of suicide, you know, Dave Mac. In Russia, they
push you out of a window. So Dave Mack, tell
me about Virginia's suicide.
Speaker 14 (19:46):
Well, what we know about virginia suicide Nancy actually comes
from her family saying she took her own life. We
don't know anything more than that. Except for this Nancy,
she was actually staying at her She was separated from
her husband and staying at their farmhouse, a one point
three million dollar farmhouse in area as you mentioned, that
(20:07):
is very lightly populated. Her brothers were staying with her
in this farmhouse. She's four weeks removed from leaving the hospital,
as you mentioned, and she is there apparently, if we
are to believe what we're being told, that she committed
suicide in the middle of a million dollar plus farm
(20:30):
mansion and she is the moment.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Dave Mac, I don't recall asking you to put the
farm mansion up on real estate size. Okay, we'll get
back to the as you say, million dollar mansion in
just a moment asking you about the cod Now, we
don't have a cause of death that has not been released.
We don't know if there's been an autopsy here in
the US. Of course, there would be an autopsy immediately
(20:57):
whenever there's a question, was then autopsy? Was there a
toxicology screening? You just stated, Dave Mac, that her family
said it's a suicide. Well, let me differ with you,
because her father, her own father, is calling for an investigation,
as is her sister in law and others. They say
(21:20):
that she specifically stated, if I die, believe me. I
did not commit suicide.
Speaker 14 (21:27):
Listen to this family of Virginia Jeffrey, led by her
father Sky Roberts, are asking her death be investigated. Roberts
tells TMZ Virginia said if she ever died by suicide,
not to believe it. Virginia herself shares comments about suicide
in response to something said on social media, writing, I'm
making it publicly known that in no way, shape or
form in my suicidal. If something happens to me in
(21:49):
the sake of my family, do not let this go
away and help me to protect them. Too many evil
people want to see me quieted.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
So Dave mac, I'm not quite sure where you're getting
your information, but you just heard the father and a
sister in law who is speaking on behalf of the
brother is demanding an investigation. Joining me. Doctor Kendall Crown's
renowned chief medical examiner out of Terrent County That's fort Worth.
(22:18):
Never a lack of business. He has performed literally thousands
of autopsies. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
School of Medicine at TCU and star of a hit
series podcast, Mayhem in the Morgue, set to hit the airwaves,
Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us. Doctor Kendall Crowns,
(22:38):
win at least in the US is an autopsy SOP
standard operating procedure.
Speaker 15 (22:45):
Anytime there's something that's concerning you always have an autopsy.
So if there's a concern for a suicide, an accident,
or a homicide, that individual will be autopsy by a
medical examiner or a forensic pathologist. In cases with natural
deaths where it's unwitnessed or unsuperfied, that they don't have
a medical history, died outside of a hospital or died
(23:07):
within twenty four hours of reaching the hospital, those will
also be autosis. And then of course any child under
the age of six, it's autopsy automatically.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
So in this case, doctor Kendall Crowns, at least in
the US, wouldn't there have been no question at autosic.
Speaker 15 (23:24):
Correct, There's no question there'd be an autopsy on this.
With the history of with the history with Epstein, with
the recent history of a possible car accident, and then
the history of domestic violence, there's all kinds of factors
in play here that could be something that's going on
that makes it not a suicide and can be a homicide.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
We are talking about the suicide of Virginia Gifrey and
this is one of my many, many questions. Where's the
death certificate? What is a ceod? Has there been a funeral?
Where is her body? Don't tell me, She's already been
cremated for Pete's sat destroying any forensic evidence. Who investigated
(24:09):
this The Crack Detectives in near Gabby, Australia, where there
are two hundred and sixty eight people population licenses? Who
found her? How did they find her? Did she hang herself?
Did she take pills? What pills? We're photos taken, we're
(24:32):
measurements taken. And again, what are the odds? What's the likelihood?
And of course that can never be argued to a
jury statistics, But what you roll the dice? What are
the statistics that four witnesses connected to a sex ring,
a proven sex ring of the very rich and powerful,
(24:57):
just as the Fez claim they're going to really all
the documents, including a list of massage therapists. Epstein paid
for her, Virginia Giffrey, to have massage lessons? Is she
on the list? Was she about to be called as
(25:18):
a witness? How did she get tangled up with a perv?
A billionaire, but a perv? Nonetheless like Epstein? This is how.
Speaker 16 (25:29):
Sometimes he would just jerk off in front of them
and rub his nipples. Sometimes he would have intercourse with them.
Sometimes he'd make them, you know, give him blowjobs. It
kind of works like a pyramid scheme. Gaelan brought me in,
I brought other girls in. Those girls brought other girls in.
Speaker 17 (25:45):
Gaelan tells me that.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
I have to do.
Speaker 16 (25:50):
For Andrew what I do for Jeffrey, and that made
me sick.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I just didn't expect.
Speaker 16 (25:59):
It from Royal.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
That is Virginia Giffrey speaking about how she was lured
by Jelane Maxwell as a little girl, told she could
make two hundred dollars an hour if she learned to
be a messus a massage therapist. Well, what that actually
entailed was something very very different and illegal. You know,
(26:21):
when children are molested, they are never the same. They
may look the same to me and you, but on
the inside they never recover. They may learn to go
about their business, hold down a job, try to have
a marriage or a family, They're never the same. Now,
what you were hearing is from our friends at the
(26:41):
Miami Herald and BBC Panorama. That's a Virginia Jeffrey who
vowed to never give up the fight, but she committed
to suicide. Just on the eve of the federal release
of those documents. I'm going to go to a very
special guest. You may not know her name now, but
(27:04):
you will. She, like Virginia was lured in by Epstein,
she actually went to Epstein Island. You know what, I
will let her tell her story. Lisa Phillips is joining
me now.
Speaker 14 (27:23):
She is the.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Star and the host of a podcast from now on,
and it's a real honor to speak with you, Miss Phillips.
How did you meet, if that's the right word, Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 17 (27:39):
So, I was on a.
Speaker 18 (27:40):
Photo shoot in early two thousand at the island of
Tortola in the British West Indies, very close to his island,
and we had a free day, and another young blonde
Polish model who looks like Virginia said, you know, I
have a friend who owns island. He's been so wonderful
(28:01):
to me. He got me my visa to live in
the United States, and so she was just said, you know,
let's go for the day, and so I just said, okay, sure,
I'll go with you.
Speaker 17 (28:11):
And so I went over to the island and.
Speaker 18 (28:15):
I saw two young blonde girls swimming in the pool
with the older gentleman, dark haired gentleman. And then later
on we all had dinner together, hung out for the day,
and later on that evening, a young blonde girl knocked
on my door and told myself and the other blonde
girl that Jeffrey needed a massage or Jeffrey. Actually she
(28:39):
said Jeffrey's ready for his massage, and so I just
was like, what are you talking about? What massage? And
so the other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes you know, massages.
You just you have to do it. So, you know,
I was trapped on the island. I didn't know where
to go. I just you know, followed the girl into
his room to do the masage with this other young girl,
(29:02):
and I ended up being abused on that island.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Lisa, When you say you were abused, what happened?
Speaker 18 (29:07):
Well, like Virginia was explaining the massages, so the massages
turned into you know, touching and into assault.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Were you sex molested Lisa by Jeffrey Epstein?
Speaker 17 (29:21):
Yes, I was.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
You know Lynn Shaw joining me? Does it ever end? Lynn?
Does it ever end? Lynn is the founder director Lyn's Warriors,
committed to ending human trafficking and exploitation of girls, host
of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube? Does it ever end? When
(29:45):
I hear Lisa and I look at her, She's so beautiful,
so articulate, so poised. I mean, Lisa, has your life
ever been the same? I mean mine has has been
the same since I was a victim of violent crime.
It's never been the same. What did that do to you?
Speaker 18 (30:07):
You can see I still get emotional, but I kept
it silent for fifteen years. It wasn't until Jeffrey died
in twenty nineteen and I saw Virginia speak out.
Speaker 17 (30:16):
I thought, Wow, this is a courageous woman.
Speaker 18 (30:19):
Wow, she has like this bravery to speak out about
you know what happened to her with Jeffrey. But it
was her story about Prince Andrew was the reason why
I spoke out. Because I had a young friend, also
a blonde similar to Virginia's look, who was told by
Jeffrey to.
Speaker 17 (30:35):
Go into a room to have sex with the Prince.
Speaker 18 (30:38):
And that memory I always remembered because when I met
Jeffrey for the very first time on the island, I
remembered seeing that man there. So my story connected me
that way Andrew. Yes, yes, Jeffrey introduced me to Prince Andrew.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Disgusting and he's like a tick, sucking the public's money,
living in a mansion. And I'm telling you this girl's
battle now, woman Virginia, Jeffrey's battle with Epstein and Prince Andrew.
She vowed not to give up ever, and I'm supposed
(31:21):
to believe that. She said, Oh yet, you know what,
I won the battle against Andrew Epstein's dance, So now
I'll kill myself. I find that really hard to believe, Lynshaw,
Will it ever end? When I see Andrew trotting around
val Morale or Windsor Castle on eighty thousand dollars horse,
(31:43):
my stomach clinches. He should be in jail. Did you
hear what Lisa just said? Same thing that Virginia said.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Listen, we at the Warriors have spoken with have interviewed
many victims of Jeffrey Epstein. I want us all to
first applaud Lisa for appearing and bravely speaking out. This
takes a lot of strength to keep talking about what happened,
so we must all commend her. Second of all, Virginia Guffrey,
I will never believe killed herself. She bravely came out
(32:16):
as a warrior. And when she did that several years ago,
all of the other victims came forward and said, finally,
finally we have some support, resolution me attention. We're going
to get somewhere. Three facts.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Right away.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
Law enforcement said, no foul play, nothing to see here.
That was number one, Number two. Virginia was in the
process of renovating her house number three. She was standing
for all the other victims. She would not do anything
to harm herself. She wanted to be that warrior for them.
And I have to add a fourth point. I don't
believe she would leave her children. Something happened here. We're
(32:53):
not getting the facts and will it ever d Nancy,
I'm afraid to say, and I don't like saying this. No,
this Epstein's story is never going to end. We're never
going to hear the truth and the facts about all
of this. Too many complicit, powerful people involved.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
And another thing you heard Lynn Shaw say she was
in the middle of her renovation. She was fighting to
see her children. She would never leave them. But what
about this note what she said she was getting ready
to do battle.
Speaker 19 (33:24):
Listen Virginia. Jeffrey's sister in law, Amanda Roberts, wants to
release a quote written by Virginia found in a journal
at her Australian farmhouse. In her own hand, Virginia wrote, mothers, fathers,
sisters and brothers need to show the battle lines are
drawn and we stand together to fight for the future
of victims. Is protesting the answer, I don't know, but
(33:44):
we've got to start somewhere. Jeffrey's brother, Sky Roberts, believes
the note was intended for organizers of the Washington DC
rally of sexual assault Survivors.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
In a section of the note, she writes, we are
not going to go away.
Speaker 13 (33:57):
Sixteen year old Virginia Jeffrey has started work working as
a traveling massuse for financier Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
But not all is as it seems.
Speaker 14 (34:06):
Virginia, just a teen.
Speaker 13 (34:07):
Is being asked to complete tasks that are far outside
of her responsibilities, and soon the tasks turn into sexual
abuse tasks.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
It makes it sound why Epstein's asking her to file documents.
He's asking this teen girl to perform sex acts, oral sex,
raping her, massaging him. It goes on and on, and
she is not the only girl involved. According to a
(34:36):
wide ranging investigation by the federal government, Epstein and his
hintch person basically his pimp, Jelaine Maxwell, another millionaire, had
created somewhat of a Ponzi scheme, a type of structure
(34:58):
where these girls, these young girls would go out and
recruit other young girls to take part in sex acts
with older, wealthy and prestigious. Let me say clients. I
would call them child rapists. But that's just me. And
now we are expected to believe that Virginia Giffrey, just
(35:20):
after all of the battle against Epstein, all of the
battle against Prince Andrew bringing him down on the cusp
of the FEDS releasing more names, she says, Yeah, you
know what, I give up. I'm committing suicide. No cod
no autopsy report, no toxicology report, nothing. I went to
(35:43):
a high school soccer game last night and the other
moms were saying, Virginia Giffrey is probably in the witness
protection program. Yes, that's where it's going. The rumor meal
in high gear and why not without any transparency or clarity.
She is not the first person connected to this investigation
(36:05):
to die off suicide. What about Carolyn Andreano?
Speaker 14 (36:10):
When she was just fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing
Caroly and Andreano and continued to abuse her for the
next four years, testifying against Gilaine Maxwell in her trial
for sex trafficking minors. Carol and Andreano found dead in
a West Palm Beach, Florida hotel room at the age
of thirty six, leaving behind a husband and five children.
West Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose.
(36:33):
Carol and Andreano is the second Epstein survivor to have
died of a fatal drug overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida.
The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose, Lee
sky Patrick, was found dead in a West Palm Beach
hotel from an accidental drug overdose.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
After four alleged suicides connected to the Epstein case. And
whatever is in these documents, isn't it time we know
the truth? Remember when Attorney General William Barr insisted there
will be justice.
Speaker 20 (37:04):
Listen, this case will continue on against anyone who was
complicit with Epstein. Any co conspirators should not rest easy.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Or they're sleeping light logs right now. That's where our
friends at CBS. That was Attorney then Attorney General William
Barr insisting there's going to be justice. All of you
co defendants. You better not sleep easy tonight. Well they
are because years have passed and the FEDS have done nothing.
(37:39):
Why Because Epstein's rich, All of his friends were rich
and influential. He was flying around presidents, megalomaniacs, huge huge
business tycoons names we all know very well. We're in
his quote little black book. It's disgusting. And here is
(38:03):
former US attorney jumping on the bandwagon, Attorney alex Acosta.
Speaker 21 (38:10):
We did what we did because we wanted to see
Epstein go to jail, so he needed to go to jail.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Alexander Acosta became US Attorney for the Southern District of
Florida in two thousand and five. That's the same year
that Palm Beach police began a thirteen month undercover investigation
of Jeffrey Epstein after allegations of sex trafficking miners. Epstein
was indicted, but Acosta arranged a plea deal without informing
the victims, that allowed Epstein to plead guilty to a
(38:41):
single state charge of solicitation and procuring a miner for prostitution.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
The FBI delivers truckloads of files to be declassified in
the Jeffrey Epstein case.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
According to the top cop of this country, Pamela Bondi,
that's happening right now. I will believe it when I
see it, because this dates back all the way to
a secret deal by the prosecutor down and Palm Beach
where Epstein got basically a camp. He could leave whenever
(39:13):
he wanted to, with a valet, a driver, and nobody
said a word. After one mom comes forward and says,
he raped my little girl, and we still don't have justice.
Has everybody forgotten what happened? Because I haven't, you know,
(39:33):
let me jog the federal government's memory. Listen.
Speaker 16 (39:38):
Sometimes he would just get in front of them and
rub his nipples. Sometimes he would have intercourse with them.
Sometimes he'd make them, you know, give him. It kind
of worked like a pyramid scheme. Geland brought me in,
I brought other girls in. Those girls brought other girls in.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
That's where my friends at Miami Harold and you were
seeing Virginia Roberts Jeffrey speaking about what happened to her.
Would you she was a little girl, a little girl
about age fourteen. Yeah, rubbing his nipples in front of
a little girl, and we find out just who the
(40:16):
victim is.
Speaker 16 (40:18):
I had been a runaway and I had been abused before.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
So to have this ability to get educated.
Speaker 17 (40:25):
And do something with my life.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
I thought I was turning around. That from our friends
at Miami Harold, but that turning point turned into this
she is instructed to just robe as Maxwell and Epstein
are both naked. She describes maxwellen Epstein touching her and
that she went along with it. Virginia says, I let
them abuse me, and I did what they told me
to do. Doctor Bethy Marshall, she's an adult now, but
(40:49):
it still sounds to me like she's blaming herself. I
let them abuse me. That's not the dynamic.
Speaker 12 (40:58):
No, no, no, no, it was a poweredential. It was
two on one.
Speaker 5 (41:02):
She was just a little girl.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
You know, children notoriously they don't.
Speaker 12 (41:06):
Know when they're abused if the act is coming from
themselves or from the other person. So this confusion is
persisting into adult life. Victims don't just recover miraculously. They
blame themselves throughout the lifespan. They are subject to disturbed
relationship patterns, sometimes drug abuse, PTSD flashbacks.
Speaker 11 (41:28):
So you know the fact that she's.
Speaker 12 (41:30):
Coming forward amidst all these symptoms that are persisting for
her is pretty remarkable, you.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Know, Notton Bethany when you mentioned flashbacks. A lot of
people don't believe in suppress memories. They're real, And I'll
give you an example. One of my best friends within
the District Attorney's office. Just a brilliant, brilliant legal mind.
I had known her for three or four years. She
started having flashbacks being molested by family member. It destroyed
(41:59):
her man. She ended up getting a divorce the child.
They had a child that was in shuttle back and
forth between the parents, and her life was turned upside
down when she remembered the molestation. And even now you
hear JR. Fraid talking about I let them molest me,
as if somehow it was her fault. Okay, So you've
(42:20):
got a secret deal with the cost to down a
palm beach. Then you've got bar saying we will see justice.
Well that never happened. Now you've got Bondie saying we're
releasing the files. Well when when will there be justice?
You know, I'm just very curious to doctor Kimberly Melman
(42:42):
Erosco executive director of Freedom Like Human Trafficking expert witness,
author of Hidden in Plane Sight, America Slaves of the
New Millennium. Do you recall the case that you analyzed
of Spider aka doctor James Joseph.
Speaker 11 (43:00):
So James Joseph was on America's Most Wanted investigation Discovery brutally,
brutally trafficked multiple women. He also got a sweetheart deal
the first time he was prosecuted. I think he got
eighteen months despite violently violently trafficking women. It wasn't until
years later, as he continued to commit his crimes where
(43:21):
he was prosecuted in California. I served as an expert
witness both to the grand journey for his indictment and
at trial where he was sentenced to life in prison.
So when they talk about this sweet sweetheart deal for Epstein,
it wasn't really out of the norm for that time. Unfortunately, unfortunately,
there are numerous alleged traffickers and persons committing crimes against
(43:43):
children who are getting away with slap on the hand
sentences because it's being perceived as difficult to prosecute.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
And one key point here, Nancy.
Speaker 11 (43:52):
Is that Epstein was a typical of a trafficker. He
was paying his victims, typically in trafficking situations. You have
talked about in your show numerous times following the money,
and I agree with that wholeheartedly, especially in trafficking situations.
Most of the time, for trafficking, the money is flowing
from the victim to the trafficker.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
It was the complete.
Speaker 11 (44:14):
Opposite in this situation, and therefore it might have been
perceived as difficult to prosecute. The thing that is extremely
important here, though, was the concealing this from the alleged victims,
concealing this from the girls that he did abuse in
waiting until afterwards. I think that is the key problem here.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Unless Bondi comes through on this, this will be another
case of the rich and powerful prevailing on those weaker,
less cunning than they are, specifically these girls that were
raped and sex trafficked by Epstein and as wealthy and
(44:54):
influential friends. When will the documents be released? You real
think they're sitting on them to protect the victims, because
I don't. This goes so far back. In fact, I
remember when renowned attorney David Boyce, who is Virginia Geffray's lawyer,
(45:15):
spoke out.
Speaker 22 (45:16):
It doesn't matter how many contacts you have, doesn't matter
who your family is, doesn't matter how much wealth do
you have. You're not a buffalow.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
That's where our friends at ITV News. That was David
boys when you represented Virginia Geffrey. He says, it doesn't
matter how rich you are. How powerful you are, but
apparently it may.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
Despite a long awaited document release, many files remain secret
and Jeffrey Epstein's contentious sex trafficking scandal.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Why why why are the files secret? Trump promised the
files would be released, but they haven't been. Why why
Bondie now listen to Presidential Counselor Alina Haba with our
friend Piers Morgan.
Speaker 23 (46:06):
I don't see how it's not shocking that there were
so many individuals that were hidden and kept secret and
not been held accountable.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I don't like it, but I'm not shocked because this
has been going on since the get go with Epstein.
That's from our friend Piers Morgan Uncensored and more from Haba.
Speaker 23 (46:27):
You have to hold individuals who are indeed rapists accountable.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
We have to have them tried. In my opinion, yes, okay,
of course they have to be tried, but the files
have to be released first so we can determine who,
if anyone, is going to be tried. And we're not
getting out of Epstein because he either committed suicide or
was killed at MDC. That from our friend at Piers Morgan.
Piers Morgan Uncensored and Bondie the new US Attorney General
(46:59):
speaks out, You're.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Looking at these documents, going, these aren't all the Epstein files.
You know, there were flight logs, there were names and victims' names,
and we're going, where's the rest of the.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Stuff, BONDI with our friends over at Fox and you
speaking out, Yeah, where is the rest of the stuff? Well,
apparently sitting in boxes at the Southern District of New
York's US Attorney's office. That's a mystery right there. But
it goes on and on and on, seemingly a never
ending quest to keep these names secret. Sidney Summer joining
(47:28):
me crime online dot com, Sydney. What are the files?
What do we think is in the files that have
been so carefully hidden from US fancy.
Speaker 9 (47:39):
We've seen flight logs, a contact list, a new evidence list,
and what prosecutors are calling a masseuse list that contained
two hundred and fifty four named victims. But what we
expect to see.
Speaker 8 (47:54):
Is a client list.
Speaker 11 (47:56):
That's what everybody wants to know.
Speaker 8 (47:57):
We have his contacts, but this is just somebody's phone contacts.
It doesn't necessarily incriminate any of the people that are
named in that contact list. What we do want is
the client list people who actively participated in the sex
trafficking ring, knowing that the women there providing massages were underage.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
It is known that on Epstein's private plane, he would
ferry underage girls, along with high profile US citizens and others,
to his private island for what to play a game
with checkers. No, that's not why. Speaking of this so
called client list listen well.
Speaker 14 (48:40):
Many were expecting Epstein's client list, hoping it would contain
bombshell implications. The majority of the roughly two hundred page
document dump is made up of previously disseminated information, like
Epstein's contact list.
Speaker 24 (48:51):
Among famous names in Epstein's contact lists are rockers McJagger
and Courtney Love, Michael Jackson, actors Alec Baldwin, Dust Hoffman
and Ralph Fiennis, and supermodels Naomi Campbell and Liz Hurley.
Others include Harvey Weinstein's brother Bob Weinstein, David Coach, Alan Dershowitz,
and both Evanna and Evanka Trump. Several political figures are
(49:14):
also named, former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, John Kerry,
John Huntsman, Senator Ted Kennedy, his sister in law Ethel Kennedy,
and her daughter Carrie Kennedy.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Okay, I doubt Ethel Kennedy or Carrie Kennedy were involved
in child sex trafficking. I doubt that Alan Dershowitz, my colleague,
is involved in sex trafficking. Maybe none of these people.
But isn't it true, Doctor Bethany Marshall, People like Epstein
(49:48):
insinuated himself into circles of power and privilege. That does
not mean everybody on his client list has done anything wrong.
I mean, do you I really think Carrie Kennedy and
Ethel Kennedy had anything to do with this? Hell no,
but no. In all of these documents, you know, there's
(50:08):
probative evidence, So I'm not surprised that these rich and
powerful people are in his list.
Speaker 12 (50:13):
But you know, Nancy, from another perspective, we know that
pedophiles congregate together, they congregate online, they disseminate photos, they
exchange information. So I don't understand why law enforcement would
go online to track pedophiles through their contact lists. But
Jeffrey Epstein's contact list is exempt from the public.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
That doesn't make sense.
Speaker 12 (50:36):
I may I agree with you that Ethel Kennedy and
some of these people obviously did not know what was
going on. But there are many wolves among the sheep,
and if you do not expose this contact list, then
we don't know who those people are. And I just
want to say, all those smiley photos of Epstein and
Gilan Maxwell, they're not smiling because they're a couple. They're
(50:59):
smiling because they're recruiting people with money and all the
resources are flowing up and they're in there with all
these high net worth individuals and that is making them
so so so.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Happy, you know. To Angie Lewis joining US partner Sirce
law from in Palm Beach, excellent trial lawyer, former felony
prosecutor in Palm Beach. There were grand jury tapes that
have just recently been revealed, grand jury tapes that the
(51:32):
evidence was heard in front of the grand jury that
were recorded as is customary. Are you surprised, based on
what you've learned from those grand jury tapes that these
documents today, these years later, are being kept secret.
Speaker 6 (51:49):
The victims who testified were asked a series of questions
about being essentially being prostitutes and really almost in an
accusatory manner, almost incriminating them in terms of some criminal
activity and so what cave of that, of course, and
what everyone has seen in these transcripts was that the
(52:11):
prosecutors knew, the police knew even back then what Epstein
was up to and how terrible what he was involved in.
Speaker 17 (52:21):
Yet we know what ended up happening.
Speaker 6 (52:22):
So no, I mean, at this point, obviously that should
be a clear indicator that further investigation is warranted and
that there are other people out there who need to
be imprisoned.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
And of course what she just said, what angel Lewis
just said, is critical because when you force a little
girl to be a prostitute, when Epstein Angeline Maxwell forced
them to be prostitutes, there had to be a john.
There had to be a John.
Speaker 4 (52:50):
Who are the Johns?
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Why aren't the files being released? Crime Stories? With Nancy
Grace Speaking of Jeffrey Epstein, his name has been thrown
around quite a bit lately in the Shawn Combs trial
(53:16):
because Shawn Comb's chief of staff, Christina Korum, never testified
at trial, and she was widely compared to Jeffrey Epstein's
chief hitch person, Julane Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Epstein's over the top seventy seven million dollar Manhattan mansion
has eight stories nineteen thousand square feet, forty rooms, and
a heated sidewalk. When the FBI raided the home, they
found a lead lined panic room beneath the stairs and
a life sized female doll hanging from a chandelier. Inside
a hidden safe, agent's found seventy thousand dollars in cash,
(53:51):
forty eight loose diamonds, another jewelry, a bit of hard drives,
and a passport from a foreign country with a picture
of Epstein under another name. There were binders upon binders
of CDs filled with loot photos of young girls.
Speaker 4 (54:06):
The Department of Justice releases phase one of declassified Epstein
files as more documents are expected.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
According to the top cop in this country, Pam Bondi
and her counselor Alena Habbaugh, counselor to the President, their quote,
absolutely will be prosecutions question. When all the documents haven't
been released, they've been in storage. That's a nice way
to put it. In the Southern District of New York
US Attorney's Office, now I want you to hear from
(54:37):
the horse's mouth, the US Attorney General, Pamel Bondi.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
Director Patel is going to get us a detailed report
as to why the FBI withheld all of those documents.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
That's why our friend's over at Fox News and I
can't wait. Do you think that detailed explanation about why
the documents were withheld will ever see the light day?
You know what, I don't care why. I just want
to know that justice is being pursued. Let's get back
to the fact that we're missing one main witness, and
(55:10):
that would be Jeffrey Epstein. Why why is he dead?
Doctor Dwayne Hendricks, former associate warden at m d C, author,
who are you see it? Say it? Seize it now?
President of a new Daylight Foundation. You know, many experts,
not just me, question whether it was a suicide. Why
(55:34):
did that happen? Doctor Hendrix?
Speaker 21 (55:36):
Based on the factors of what we what we know,
it was a colossal failure unfortunately by the agency that
I worked for for a number of years, with the staff,
you know, not tending to counting and being accountable for mister.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Uh okay speak English, Speak English, who did what?
Speaker 21 (55:56):
Apparently he committed suicide and it was over three hours
before they actually went and checked the cell. They're supposed
to do thirty minute round.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Parent committed suicide, you know, Doctor Dwayne Hendrix. I really
respect you, but aren't you just a little embarrassed right now?
Apparently he committed suicide like we don't really know, Pays.
The guards that were supposed to watch him every thirty
minutes were shopping online and.
Speaker 21 (56:24):
Asleep, yes, and they should have treated him like they
eventually treated Dulane Maxwell when she was at the NBC,
not MCC And they should have had staff sitting in
front of his cell monitoring his all of his actions
and his behaviors. When I was a correction officer back
in the late nineties, you know, had the I was.
(56:44):
I was with tech Zinski there at FDC Dublin, and
they put too they put cameras in his cell, and
they probably should have did that with Epstein. The other
failure out in mind.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Now Again, I deply respect you and what you're doing now,
but could it would have should have? Ain't helping me tonight.
I'm trying to figure out was he murdered or did
he commit suicide? Because a lot of renowned experts, not
lawyers like myself, but medical examiners say he did not
commit suicide, which leads me to concerns about Julaine Maxwell.
(57:20):
The only other potential witness in this case. Oh, here
we have the Attorney General, William Barr, weighing in.
Speaker 25 (57:28):
I was appalled, and indeed the whole department was and
frankly angry to learn of the MCC's failure to adequately
secure this prisoner.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
Appalled, shocked, angry. That's where our friends at CBS. But
yet the main witness against potential co defendants in those
files is now dead. Darn what a coinkydink the way
that worked out? Joining me, Doctor Kendall Crown's renowned chief
(58:03):
medical examiner Terran County. That's fort Worth. He is esteemed
lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Launching
a new podcast, Doctor Kendall crowns. I know there is
evidence supporting both sides of this, but what tends to
suggest this was not a suicide.
Speaker 7 (58:23):
So there's a couple of problems with it. The injuries
he has the next structures, the thyroid cartilage which is
right about here, and the hyoid bone which is about here.
He has fractures, two fractures on the thyroid cartilage, one
in the highoid bone, and it's odd for him to
have so many fractures with just a simple hanging. Usually
(58:44):
with a simple hanging, the ligature kind of pulls up
on the neck, compresses the structure and causes them to die,
especially with a large sheep type hanging. And what we're
seeing is with these fractures is he potentially has got
this ligature wrapped around his neck, pulling back and causing
these fractures, and then if he moves, it can cause
(59:06):
another fracture. So it's odd that he has these two fractures.
And then you throw in the fact that he has
contusions on his wrists. Was he restrained? You have a
couple of a couple of findings that make it very
strange that it could be a suicide, but it also
could be a homicide. And it's just not very clear.
Speaker 1 (59:25):
When you say there were factors that were strange, I
could not agree more. But what are to what are
you referring.
Speaker 7 (59:32):
The contusions on the wrists. I don't feel that there
are the bruises on the wrists. I don't feel they're
being very clear about what those look like or how
they are. Because his hands could have been tied together
with another restraint or another piece of sheet.
Speaker 1 (59:46):
Hey dirigental crowns we're looking at the scene right there,
and the only way he could have committed suicide is
to tie the binding that he created to the bunk man.
He obviously didn't have any platf from high enough for
a traditional hanging, he would have to have tie that
and they just leaned forward and let the pressure asphyxiate him.
(01:00:09):
How likely is that correct?
Speaker 7 (01:00:12):
I mean, that's a type of the way it is.
He can't suspend himself or anything of that nature. He's
going to have to lean into it, and again that's
going to be a slow kind of pressure on his neck.
So these fractures that we have are very, very odd
that he has so many fractures.
Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
From just dolector Kendall crowns. They don't fit, do they
with suicide?
Speaker 7 (01:00:32):
It is odd. It doesn't really fit. So I'd have
to have more explanation, more information to even make a
decision on that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
I'm not a Republican and I'm not a Democrat, but
I beg you Trump, do not pardon Julane Maxwell. Don't
do it. Huge miscarriage of justice. Joining me now, special
guest Bill Daily, former FBI investigator, security expert Bill Daily.
You know the ins and outs of the fares like
(01:01:03):
the back of your hand. What is happening? When can
we get the names in these documents?
Speaker 26 (01:01:08):
Well, Nancy, certainly, there's been basically a truckload of documents
now brought down to the Attorney General's office and they're
going through them. There will be some time to kind
of pull this all together because they're going to be
various investigative elements. There's going to be interviews, there's going
to be injury statements. There's going to be other information
out there, whether it's hard drives, whether it's videos, whatever.
Documentation also was found, whether in one of the homes
(01:01:32):
or the homes. So it's going to take a while
to pull it together.
Speaker 14 (01:01:34):
You know.
Speaker 26 (01:01:35):
One of the things that always has troubled me about
this case many things. Certainly it was the circumstances around
mister Epstein's death in the correctional facility in Lower Manhattan,
but it was also around other people who either material
witnesses or those people who ate it and bedded. There
are many people who are involved in this case where
it happens to be people who attending at the Epstein homes,
(01:01:55):
whether it's pilots or crew on the aircraft who both
probably knew or were aware of what was happening, saw
these young women being brought on, saw some of the perpetrators,
some of the victimizers also being transported around those people
who am not too sure why we never heard either
statements about them or whether they themselves were complicit in
(01:02:18):
some ways if not given a pardon.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Bill Daly, former FBI investigator, Phensic photography expert, security expert.
Do you ever just get sick to your stomach to
see how wealthy and powerful people are protected they never
face justice.
Speaker 26 (01:02:40):
Nancy, and I think the American people also feel the
same way. The new administration is run in transparency. The
new FBI director has come forth saying he would be
very transparent, so has the Attorney General.
Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
I believe them. I want that to happen.
Speaker 26 (01:02:55):
I want the top of the American people because so
many of us have seen some of these cases go
and come, and we say, why is it always just
the kind of the regular folks that you find yourselves
being put in jail, and it's the other people who's
very obviously have committed some of these these acts, are
certainly never held their feet to the fire from a
prosecution standpoint. So in this case, I really hope that
(01:03:16):
this will result in some of these victims, these people
with victimize that there be some justice for them. At
the same time, I also am concerned about missus Maxwell
and our safety because as more of this comes about,
as more information comes to light, is that her life
could be at risk, whether in or outside the confines
(01:03:37):
of a penitentiary.
Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
You know, I'm glad you brought that up Bill Daily
to doctor Dwayne Hendricks, former Associate warden MDC Dodger Hendricks.
Right now, Daine Maxwell is in the FCI formal Florida
Correctional Institute in Tallahassee, and it is low security. If
(01:04:01):
someone can murder Epstein and high security, what about low security,
doctor Hendrix, Well, one.
Speaker 21 (01:04:09):
Thing, anybody can be killed anywhere, whether it's in the
correctional facility, whether it's maximum or minimum or anywhere. But
I will say if there were any threats, So if
there were any credible threats to her life. You know,
the agency does have an excellent intel office. They do
a lot of work with other agencies to include the FBI.
(01:04:31):
The staff are members of the Joint Task for Wait
a minute, Wait a.
Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Minute, Henri. Did you just hear doctor Kimberly melmont or
Rossco state that Epstein was in fear for his life
at the time he died. So who is going Nobody
protected him? Who is going to protect Jawayne Maxwell.
Speaker 21 (01:04:52):
It'll be the same people, different staff, It'll be the
same agency and staff and other law enforcement personnelit if
there's any credible threats, they will place her in special
housing and if they would need to move her to
a different facility, they would do so at that time.
But again, anyone could be touched at any time, unfortunately,
(01:05:14):
and if she feels she's in fear of her life,
she needs to at any time, she needs to report
that to staff, and she needs to check try to
get herself checked into special housing or remove from that facility.
And that's just how that works.
Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
The last one heard of is Layne Maxwell. She was
finding about her Thanksgiving dinner. What about it Sydney summer? Yeah, Nancy.
Speaker 8 (01:05:35):
So Maxwell is apparently claiming that she has limited funds
and her commissary is empty, meaning she went hungry on
Thanksgiving Day.
Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
I find that very hard to believe. It may not
be a private chef like she's used to with Epstein,
but I find it very difficult to believe that the
inmates wouldn't get fed at the FCI.
Speaker 17 (01:05:54):
You know what, maybe.
Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
She'd like a little bump up to a better jail
in exchange for her testimony. Think about it, Maxwell. We
wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend.
Host
Nancy Grace
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