January 16, 2026 • 42 mins
One of the doctors who pleaded guilty to supplying ketamine to actor Matthew Perry, leading to his overdose death, avoids jail time, being sentenced to eight months of home confinement.
Judge Sherilyn Peace Garnett also sentenced Dr. Mark Chavez to three years of supervised release. Chavez is the second of the five defendants to be sentenced in connection with Perry’s death.
In his 2022 memoir, "Friends, Lovers, and the Big, Terrible Thing," Matthew Perry claimed to have been to rehab 15 times, detoxed 65 times, and spent about $7 to $9 million trying to get sober.
Two years after his near-death experience, Matthew Perry went to a rehab facility in Switzerland. He admitted to faking pain symptoms to get OxyContin during COVID.
He was also getting daily Ketamine infusions. Ultimately, it was Ketamine that killed him.
On October 28, Matthew Perry went to his country club to play a game of Pickleball with friends. Perry returned to his home after the game and was seen by his assistant, who was leaving the house to run errands.
At 4 p.m., the assistant returned home and found Perry floating face down in the heated end of the pool.
Paramedics pulled Perry out of the pool and pronounced him dead at the scene.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, it never ends with Hollywood justice.
Matthew Perry, the star of the iconic Friends series, dead
in his hot tub because of doctors and enablers.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
That allowed him to die.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yes, he bears some responsibility to we know that, but
what about the others that let it happen, that made
it happen?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
They are skating justice?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Is it because they're rich, high profile or just part
of the Hollywood MAYLEEU. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
I want to thank you for being with us. That's right.
In the Last Days, Matthew Perry's Ketemen doctor skates escapes
jail and a shock ruling as the court hears how
(00:55):
he is driving Uber for a living.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So good.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That is a blessing to him to drive Uber for
a living. He should be mopping floors in the penitentiary.
Matthew Perry is dead because of him, and I wonder
how many other people he prescribed. Kettymine two, one of
the doctors caught up in the criminal fallout surrounding the
(01:22):
Friends legend. Matthew Perry's Kennymine death some would call it
a murder, has avoided a jail time. What actually happened
to Matthew Perry. Let me start with the nine to
one one call.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Listen three give.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Us signs and radio in part of the drowning across
a few twey three give us sign.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
You can't tell a lot, but I learned something significant.
Let's hear that one more time.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Said twenty three give us signal and radio in front
of the drowning across the.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Tweeny three give us sign.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Now, some of those numbers are universal. Sometimes you hear
numbers across a police ban or on an ems.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That are specific to that region.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But what I'm hearing that really jumps out at me
as response to the drowning. So at the beginning, it
was believed that the friends start died of drowning because
that's what was reported to them. But what do we
really know? Take to listen to our friends at crime Online.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
The Los Angeles Medical Examiner determined that fifty four year
old Matthew Perry died from the acute effects of ketamine.
Other contributing factors listed were drowning, coronary artery disease, and
the effects of buprenorphine. Buprenorphine is used to treat opioid
use disorder, the manner of death has been ruled an accident.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Okay, see, I'm a trial lawyer, and that is why
the medical examiners and everybody at the crime lab would
go hide under their desk when they saw my beat
up Honda pulling up, because they knew I was going
to go through it line by line literally to make
sense of what they wrote down in their scientific findings.
(03:31):
What acute effects of ketamine, Other contributing factors were drowning,
coronary artery disease, prefer blue blue used to treat opioid disorder,
manner of death, accident. There's so much there. I could
do a whole flow chart on that to try to
explain all that to a jury. Luckily we have experts
(03:54):
with us. But first I'm going to go to a
special guest joining us, Miguel Melendez, joining us, senior writer
for Entertainment tonight.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Miguel, what a pleasure to have you on. Man.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
This sent shock waves through not only Hollywood but.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Across our country.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Because I'm going to follow this up with our shrink,
Karen Stark. We think we know Matthew Perry. Why because
we've seen him on the big screen. We've seen him
on the little screen. We follow him in the tabloids.
We think we know him and about his life. We've
been following his struggle with addiction, and a lot of
people can identify with that. If you haven't had that
(04:31):
struggle in somebody, you know somebody close to you.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Has had that struggle.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So Matthew Perry was kind of like every man that
was struggling with a lot. But to you, Miguel Melendez,
I want to go before I get into Matthew Perry
himself and how it ended up this way, I want
to talk to you about what happened, what surrounded the
discovery of Matthew Perry dead in a hot tub leading
(05:00):
up to that. Tell me about the discovery and what
came out at the time that he was first discovered
dead in the hot tub.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
Right, So, what we know of the timeline is that
at eleven am, Matthew had played pickleball. At one thirty
seven PM is when Matthew was last known to be
alive by his personal living assistant to live with him
in the Pacific Policy Home. He was off to run errands.
At one thirty seven pm. The living assistant returned home
and found Matthew floating face down in the jacuzzi. The
(05:29):
assistant jumped into the pool, moved Matthew into the sitting
position on the steps of the pool, and found him
by the way on the heated.
Speaker 7 (05:37):
Side of the pool.
Speaker 8 (05:38):
Called nine one one.
Speaker 6 (05:39):
Paramedics arrived and they moved and they pulled Matthew out
of the pus.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay, hold on, Miguel, You're giving me so much information
so quickly. I'm drinking from the fire hydrate because Miguel,
you know I like to dissect every single sentence, and
I loved everything you just said as far as factually
what I'm learning.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Could you say it again a very slowly? Okay? Did
you say the living assistant found him?
Speaker 9 (06:03):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Okay. Why did Matthew Perry have a live in assistant?
Speaker 8 (06:07):
That I can answer you, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (06:09):
I don't know the exact circumstances of what led to that.
I do know that the living assistant, based on this report,
is that he administered the detox drugs on Matthew twice
a day.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
That's important, Miguel Melendez, Hold on, Miguel, hold the thought
guys with me. He's a senior writer for entertainment tonight.
You all know him, Miguel Melendez, giving us everything we
need to know to analyze this drug ketamine that claimed
the life of Matthew Perry. Karen el start joining me,
(06:43):
renowned TV radio trauma expert at Karenstark dot com. Karen
with the c if you're trying to find her, Karen, So,
is it like a minder.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
You have with AA that.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I don't think they call it a minder. They call
it something else, someone that takes in on you. It's
like your partner, your buddy, that kind of that's who
you call when you have a problem or you're going
to relapse. Is that what you think is happening here?
He had somebody to help him.
Speaker 10 (07:12):
It's called a sponsor. And his assistant she was his sponsor.
She was his minder, as you said, Nancy, So she
was there. She could not stop him from taking something,
but certainly was trying. That was her role to make
sure that he was on the straight and narrow and
(07:33):
sticking to his determination to stop. And he was very
open about it. But he really did want to stop
taking drugs recreationally.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
He really did, and he made no secret about it.
What led up to that moment Miguel Melndez is describing.
But first again, Miguel, could you tell me the assistant
comes in, You.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Said he was the heater end of the hot tub.
Speaker 8 (08:02):
Correct.
Speaker 6 (08:02):
So at four pm, the living as system walks in
from running errands finds Matthew Perry floating space down in
the jacuzi in the heated end.
Speaker 11 (08:12):
Of the pool.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
The assistant jumped into the pool, moved Matthew into the
sitting position on the steps of.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
The pool, and called nine one one.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
Paramedics soon arrived, pulled Matthew out of the pool onto
the grass, where he was pronounced that at the scene,
you know, I think I had.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
It bass Akwar's Migam Melndez I was saying hot tub
because I've read jacuzie. But was the jacuzi or the hot.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Tub part of the pool? Was he in a pool
or was he in a hot tub or jacuzi?
Speaker 6 (08:43):
It looked like it was a long pool that has
a jacuzi, and then if they're not two separate Okay, that.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Makes perfect sense. Okay, guys, what led up to this moment?
Take a listen to our friend Nicole Parton.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Matthew Perry went to his country club to play a
game of pickleball with friends around eleven am. Perry returned
to his home after the game and was seen by
his assistant, who was leaving the house to run errands
at one thirty seven pm. At four o'clock PM, the
assistant returned to the home. Investigator Jennifer Hertzog says the
assistant found Perry floating face down in the heated end
(09:20):
of the pool. The assistant jumped into the pool and
moved him into a sitting position on the steps and
called nine to one one. Paramedics responded, pulled Perry out
of the pool and onto the grass, and pronounced him
dead on the scene at four seventeen PM. His stepfather,
Keith Morrison is listed as the informant, which means the
(09:41):
dateline host is who identified Perry to authorities.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Oh my goodness that mus is so horrible on the
stepfather to have to do that after the struggle he
Matthew Perry went through so publicly against substance abuse. Mike
McCormick joining me out of LA owner lead investing at
her MCM investigations.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Mike McCormick, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I'm very curious Matthew Perry had been so open and
public about his battle with addiction. Who I mean, even
I know about that two thousand miles away, who would
be supplying him drugs, ketamine and all the other things
in his system.
Speaker 7 (10:26):
It was either prescribed to him that Kennedy was prescribed,
or he's getting it off the street. There's only several
ways of doing it. My understanding is that the from
he's a assistant or past girlfriend miss Edwards that she's
been involved with him off and on from about two
(10:48):
thousand and six, and she used to purchase his drugs
off the street for him. So the kennamine and other
drugs he may have been taken to come from e
their short.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
When I say he skated of jail, boy, did he?
Mark Chavez, the second of two doctors who are convicted
with in connection to Matthew Perry's death, was sentenced to
just eight months of home confinement, even though he faced
the likelihood of at least ten years behind bars. He
(11:42):
played guilty. There's no question he did it. He played
guilty to one count conspiracy to distribute ketamine. He admits
he fraudulently sold and obtained ketamine to a fellow doctor,
Salvador Placincia.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I mean, what does it take.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
The man admitted he might as well have held a
gun to Matthew Perry's head and pull the trigger. What
happened that night and Matthew Perry's hot up?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Is that true? I don't know that. Is that true?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
And can that be corroborated that an ex girlfriend would
score drugs for him?
Speaker 6 (12:18):
Well, I don't know that the girlfriend and the assistant
are the same people. I do know that there was
a girlfriend who was his assistant at one time, and
she has gone on the record and asked that, you know,
the doctors be investigated.
Speaker 7 (12:31):
If they were the ones who supplied the ketamine.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
Now she's gone on record and said that if that happened,
and then this investigation needs to happen. But whether the
assistant and this ex girlfriend are the same people, it
doesn't seem to indicate that that's what happened based on
the investigation and the details that are in the medical
examiner's report.
Speaker 7 (12:52):
The assistant, this is Wendy Patrick.
Speaker 12 (12:56):
It looks like the assistant it was living with Matthew
Perry at the time of his death is a man
named Kenny Alamsa right, not the prior, not a prior
girlfriend or a female assistant.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
You're right, Wendy Patrick.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Guys, you're hearing California prosecutor and author of Why Bad
Looks Good Wendy Patrick at wendypatrickphd dot com, The Star
of Today with Dr Wendy on KCBQ. I was just
coming to you, Wendy on another point, a legal point,
and that is I saw the trial go down.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I don't know if you remember Archie Bunker of All
in the family. Yeah, when his son.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Died of an overdose, he went after the supplier in
the Fulton County courthouse. And I was just wondering, Wendy
about people knowing about his public struggle against addiction.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I mean, he wrote about it, he talked about it,
very open about it.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Who would supply someone battling addiction with It's a great
question when you have.
Speaker 12 (14:02):
When you're talking about somebody that's supposed to be a confidant,
a sponsor, a helper, a minder. We have all these terminology,
these terms that we use. It's very different than a
Michael Jackson situation where you actually have somebody medically administering
a drug, who would do it? I would have to say, Nancy,
as you and I and our listeners know the same
people that are selling drugs to begin with, maybe somebody
(14:25):
that doesn't know him well enough, or because it was
prescribed lawfully for a medicinal purpose, somebody that honestly, although mistakenly,
thought that he needed it or could handle it in
different doses. You know, ketamine, if it's being as supervised,
is used certainly not very not as often as many
other drugs. But you have to believe whether or not
(14:46):
somebody thought they might be doing him a favor, if
he was depressed, if he was.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Suicidal, they could not have been more wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
And if it comes out that we can find a
supplier or someone who aided or a bet at am oh,
wait to just think about this, Wendy Patrick about criminal
charges joining me right now?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Is the expert in this field as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
The pre eminent expert, Doctor William Maroney, medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist,
opioid treatment expert, author of American Narcan, which is on Amazon.
Doctor Moroney, take a listen to what we've learned about
the autopsy.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Matthew Perry's autopsy report doesn't say how or when Perry
used ketamine prior to his death, but the coroner ruled
out the ketamine treatments he had a week and a
half before his death because ketamine has a half life
of three to four hours or less. The report notes,
at the high levels of ketamine found in his post
mortem blood specimens, the main lethal effects would be from
(15:54):
both cardiovascular overstimulation and respiratory depression. Drowning contributes due to
the likelihood of submersion into the pool as he lapsed
into unconsciousness.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And that's not all, doctor Moroni, wait for it. I
would never have imagined this goes into the cocktail.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
The autopsy report noted Matthew Perry's history of chronic obstructive
pulmonary disease inmphysema and diabetes. The report mentions Perry's past
drug use, but notes Perry had reportedly been cleaned for
nineteen months. The New York Post reports that in the
autopsy report, a comment is made about Perry undergoing ketamine
infusion therapy, most recently one and a half weeks before
(16:37):
his death. The report states ketamine treatments are for anxiety
and depression, but ketamine in the system couldn't be from
the infusion therapy. Doctor Bankole Johnson, one of the leading
neuroscientists and physicians in the field, tells The New York
Post that ketamine in Perry's system is more likely from
recreational use.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Male hormone testosterone and jack. And there's one more ingredient.
Why was Matthew Perry getting injections of the male hormone
testosterone listen.
Speaker 11 (17:13):
According to Matthew Perry, he had been cleaned for nineteen months,
but The Daily Mail reports the actor died from an
overdose of the party drug ketamine. According to the autopsy report,
a detective who attended the scene of Perry's death said, quote,
during my investigation, no alcohol, elicit drugs or drug paraphernalia
were found unquote. The Daily Mail also claims the fifty
(17:34):
four year old was getting injections of the male hormone testosterone,
and an unnamed female associate claimed the injections were causing
him to be angry and mean for the last couple
of weeks.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
From my point of view, doctor Maroney as a lay
person and not a doctor an MD like you, if
something calls causes you to be angry and mean, it
makes me wonder if it also didn't jack up his
heart rate, this male testosterone injection.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I mean, I don't know what to make of it,
doctor Moroney.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Because you've got ketamine, you've got testosterone, you've got the
opioid treatment drug.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
There's so much going on there.
Speaker 9 (18:14):
What you have is a cocktail of disaster because you
probably are dealing with multiple doctors that are not communicating,
nobody's coordinating his care. And if he's getting ketamine.
Speaker 8 (18:32):
As it's said in the autopsy, there's.
Speaker 9 (18:36):
Ketamine contents in the stomach that would be ketamine pills.
That's a rogue doctor, somebody outside of good practice guidelines.
Speaker 8 (18:47):
Giving pills they have no business giving. In addition to
ketamine treatment, I.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Mean, is a ketamine used by vets so animals don't
have pain during operations.
Speaker 8 (18:58):
Yeah, it helps anesthesia for your cats and dogs. But
at low doses. It's been shown to be beneficial in
a massively unstable major depressive disorder. But guess what that
acceptable therapy is Nasal? It's a nasal spray with your psychiatrist.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Right, what you're saying, Ketamine, which many people believe is
just used by veterinarians. Now people are using it, and
you're saying that the only approved way for it to
be used by people is by a nasal spray.
Speaker 9 (19:39):
The acceptable SDA approved supervised ketamine treatment is to go
see your psychiatrists, have an appointment, get a nasal spray,
and stay until you're stable, and have a counseling session.
What you have here is somebody keeps saying, well, he's
in treatment, he's in recover, he's not getting enough psychosocial
(20:02):
therapy because he's impaired, he's impulsive, he's processing poor decisions
because he doesn't have that counseling part linked to all
this medicine, what is ketamine? Ketamine is a class of
medicine that works on transmitters called glutamate.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, speak English man, What speak English?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Is this something I've got to worry about? They're going
to have in the halls of my twins high school?
I mean, I hear about ecstasy, co marijuana, blah blah
blah blah.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
But ketamine.
Speaker 9 (20:40):
Ketamine's been abused for twenty years in drug culture and
drug use.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
But is it traded freely on the street.
Speaker 8 (20:47):
It is on the street.
Speaker 9 (20:48):
You can buy it if you can ask for from
your dealer, they'll get you some. But it's FDA approved
as a nasal spray, and he's not getting the FDA
approved version.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Okay, I heard somebody jumping in. Is it when your
Karen Stark?
Speaker 10 (21:01):
Karen. It's used as a club drug. It started years ago, Nancy,
but it's continuing. People do useage recreationally, but it's there
are a lot of trials going on where they are
psychedelics to stop addiction, just the opposite of what we
have here, and for depression, and that has to be
(21:24):
a trial because.
Speaker 6 (21:25):
It's not FDA approved.
Speaker 8 (21:27):
These are rogue doctors in rogue clinics.
Speaker 9 (21:32):
The only doctor that's probably legitimate here is the one
giving the bupin orphine. That's the hardest word to say,
but in order to do that you have to have training.
The rest of these people doing ketamine rogue.
Speaker 8 (21:44):
They're outside the law, they're outside good practice.
Speaker 9 (21:48):
We saw this with Anna, Nicole Smith, Michael Jackson, Prince,
all these rogue doctors treating all these celebrities and you
don't know who's around them.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Ketamine has been around it being abused for a long time.
We just don't know that much about it, and we
don't see it as much. We don't it's not soaked
into our national understanding as well. But as far as
I can remember that it's been called baby food, bump,
cat killer, cat valum, fort, dodge, green, green, k K land,
(22:22):
k hole.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
There's a million slang words for ketamine.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And the first time I ever saw that was when
I was prosecuting and somebody had it as an aside drug.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
They were dealing heroin, and they also had vitamin K.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And you're gonna laugh at this, Mike McCormick, I said, so,
what's wrong with vitamin K? Because I didn't know what
that vitamin K was?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Ketamine? And that was, oh gosh. I was prosecuting a.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Dope lord and he had a stash of vitamin K.
That's the first time I heard about Kennymine and Matthew.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
Garry was not the celebrity to be open about the
Keademy therapy sessions. I mean, the week before he died
on December first, Christy Keagan was very open about the
fact that she underwent Academy therapy session to celebrate her birthday.
And she said on Instagram how she saw Spaece and
time and her late so late son Jack is someone
(23:22):
she saw during this therapy session. So Kedemy has kind
of like sort of has come into the conscious as
of late and now more because of Matthew Perry's death.
You're seeing the horrible side eff that it can have.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
So Miguel Alndez from at Joining Us, you're saying that
it's common use among celebrities to what fight depression.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
To fight depression, to figure themselves, to use them to
use it as a form of therapy. Christy Keagan is
far from the only celebrity who has been open about
taking or undergoing Academy therapy sessions. The lights of Sharon
Osbourne and Pete Davidson.
Speaker 7 (24:03):
Who have been open about this.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
But again, Academy therapy session is not dangerous if it's
done under supervision, as our doctor seen doctor Sareff said,
when you go rogue, and in this case, it seems
to indicate that that's what Matthew Perry did. You're going
to see the fatal consequences, consequences, and that's just that's
exactly what happened here.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
You're hearing Miguel Melendez, senior writer at and I've got
to get everything he.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Said, which is all correct.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
By the way, explain to me medically, doctor William Maroney,
renowned expert in this field.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So when you have ketamine treatment with.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
A doctor, you're saying, keny maine is ingested nasally like
through dristand the spray into your nose, and if it's
used any other way than it's rogue.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Do I have that right, Maroney?
Speaker 9 (24:57):
The reason why it's rogue is the FDA approved spray
comes with specific conditions, that you're observed, that they follow instructions,
and that your safety comes first, and you really can't
even drive to and from your session.
Speaker 8 (25:14):
You're supposed to have somebody take care of you.
Speaker 9 (25:16):
As soon as you let somebody take ketamine pills, well,
it's unobserved, it's uncontrolled, and it's clear there was ketamine
in his stomach and his level in his blood was
exactly halfway between low anesthesia and high anesthesia. You don't
have those levels when you're supervised. And the whole idea
(25:40):
that ketamine therapy is matched to a psycho social treatment
of behavioral counseling session. That's where you make the changes
you have better insight, you have better processing and stress, and.
Speaker 8 (25:54):
You're not impulsive.
Speaker 9 (25:55):
The last thing you want with impulsive behaviors with somebody
in addiction is the.
Speaker 8 (26:00):
Them on postosterone. That's insane. Well, everybody knows it makes
you feel really good as a man.
Speaker 9 (26:10):
You're sixty years old, suddenly you feel thirty six, okay,
but it comes at the price of frustration and anger
and really short tempers. Add that to the impulsivity of
substance use disorder and you could have, you know, a
dark rabbit hole, a hidden monster in the shadows, and
(26:32):
somebody who's not going to listen to somebody when they say, oh,
you know, it's taken a few too many ketamine pills.
Ketamine spray is not something you do every day. It's
once or twice a month with counseling sessions.
Speaker 13 (26:44):
And because he had the pills in his stomach still
at the time the autopsy, we know it was rogue
aketamine and not the type used for infusion treatment.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And of course you've got the other factor weighing.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Into Matthew Perry's death, and that is with all these
drugs in the system, he gets into the pool, the
hot tub and it's not the first time.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Take a listen to our cut thirteen.
Speaker 12 (27:12):
Now on Amergency.
Speaker 14 (27:13):
How you doing?
Speaker 9 (27:14):
This is security from Beverly Hilton.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
All right with going on?
Speaker 14 (27:16):
I need a paramedic family. I got a forty six
year old female found in the bathroom. But a fall
up guy right now, but they're requesting paramedic triw Okay,
para fell a bathroom. I'll love Rumorscannel. I'm not sure
she fell. She was in the bathroom with the water
fourth fourth sixty four four three four.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 14 (27:29):
There's room four three fourth yeah, okay, and there's not
eat twist or anything else. There's room four three four
three four yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Okay.
Speaker 14 (27:35):
You don't know see your country.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Of breathing at all.
Speaker 14 (27:37):
Apparently she wasn't breathing and she's twenty six year old.
Speaker 9 (27:39):
She was not breathing.
Speaker 14 (27:40):
Yeah, okay, but she is a breathing I aw, I
don't know. Okay, that's the first thing that called me,
was guy rad And i'kay.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
Much out of it.
Speaker 14 (27:48):
Okay, you know, got r card to go in there now, Okay,
we'll come to breathe for fire over there was that
a person not breathing.
Speaker 6 (27:52):
There's kind of like the first one.
Speaker 12 (27:53):
Still not breathing.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Yeah, that's correct. Okay, we'll get in there.
Speaker 14 (27:55):
For not bringing everybody, give me to the real plans?
Can I get to pr Yeah, we're going there. Now
are you getting into the realms?
Speaker 12 (28:00):
Like I've got to get keep cart truck.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 14 (28:02):
You kept hanging up on us, kept hanging up on you.
Speaker 7 (28:05):
Okay, right, we're good.
Speaker 12 (28:05):
Now you go it.
Speaker 7 (28:06):
Okay, okay, back, thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
And there was water in Whitney Houston's lungs, indicating she
was alive when she was submerged underwater. But according to
what we learn, the level of cocaine in Whitney Houston's
body was not lethal, but it was enough to make
her unaware of the fact she was going underwater, and
(28:31):
in an eerie twist, the same thing happens to her daughter.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
To listen to our cut sixteen, The.
Speaker 11 (28:39):
Only child of Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown, Bobby Christina
Brown wanted to follow her mother's footsteps as a singer
and actress. Tyler Perry cast Bobby Christina Brown in his
television series For Better or Worse and had high praise
for her work. In her personal life, she became engaged
in Nick Gordon, a friend of the family who lived
with them from the age of twelve. Never officially adopted
(29:01):
by Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown, Bobby Christina Brown referred
to him as her big Bra online. Their engagement shocked many.
On January thirty one, twenty fifteen, Nick Gordon found Bobby
Christina face down, unconscious in a bathtub in her home
in Alfaretta, Georgia.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And then, just recently, we lose another celebrity, Aaron Carter
in our cut twenty one.
Speaker 11 (29:22):
As the younger brother of Nick Carter of the Bank
Street Boys, Aaron Carter had a connection to the big time.
He could sing, he could dance, and he had the
look as with most teen idols when they're fifteen minutes
is up. Aaron Carter struggled. His first stint in a
treatment facility was announced by his manager when the singer
was just twenty three. Then a year later it was
announced that he completed a twenty eight day rehab stint
(29:43):
at the Betty Ford Center. On November fourth, twenty twenty two,
Aaron Carter's housekeeper found his body in the bathtub at
his home. The Los Angeles County Department of Medical Examiner
Corner ruled cause of death was attributed to drowning after
inhaling die flora ethane and taking the generic of the
brand name Xanax. The report also indicated the Carter was
(30:03):
incapacitated while in the bathtub due to the effects of
the drugs he took, which contributed to his death by drowning.
Aaron Carter was thirty four.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
You know, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor and author. So many people,
not just celebrities, die in pools and hot tubs after
too many drugs or too much alcohol.
Speaker 12 (30:25):
Yeah, it's so unfortunate. You know, we only hear about
some of these famous people because they're famous. Think about
how many men and women, friends, neighbors, family members die
in the same way. But maybe don't just grab headlines.
It's one of the reasons we always want to reach
out sooner rather than later for people that are struggling.
And I like the way in that last clip they
(30:46):
talked a little bit about what happens after the fame.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
You know.
Speaker 12 (30:49):
One of the things that Matthew Perry said, he said,
taking k is like being hit in the head with
a giant happy shovel, but the hangover outweighed the benefits.
And that's part of what I think celebrities are getting
better at explaining and that yes, perhaps they're self medicating,
but it's not worth it in the end. And that's
one of the messages that Matthew Perry wanted to.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Leave us with Karen start joining us a renowned psychologist. Karen,
we know that Matthew Perry told everyone he had been
clean going on two years? Is that common for addicts
to insist their cleim.
Speaker 10 (31:26):
Is tremendous amounts of denial, Nancy, because they really are struggling,
in most cases to be clean. They don't want to
be addicted, but they're very, very susceptible. And when you
think about somebody who's famous like that, there are always
people around who were willing to oblige them with drugs
(31:47):
and tempt them with drugs because they want to make
them happy, they want to be around the celebrity. It's
something that happens all the time. So I am sure
he was trying but obviously not succeeding, or that ketamine
would not have been there he.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Had really been through a battle. I want you to
take a listen to our cut four our friends from
crime online. Something I didn't know until after Matthew Perry
passed away.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
After years of addiction.
Speaker 15 (32:17):
Matthew Perry spent five months in the hospital after his
colon burst from prolonged opioid abuse. Perry says he was
in surgery for seven hours, in a coma for two weeks,
and doctors told his family he had a two percent
chance of survival.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Stripped of his medical license when his reputation who cares
everybody else that.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Causes a death goes to jail?
Speaker 9 (32:53):
Why not him?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Now? He claims he's scraping by as a ride chair driver.
You know what, take more jobs. He also begged the
court to credit him with time served.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So wait his sentences. He drives an uber that's his sentence.
What happened to Matthew Perry? Doctor William Moroney joining us
the pre eminent expert in this field.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Doctor Moroney, I believe that if my colon had burst.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
From prolonged drug use, I would go through hell in
high water not to get addicted again. But see that's
me on the outside looking in because I'm not addicted.
Addicts tell me that they can't stop themselves.
Speaker 9 (33:40):
What it is is there is an insight issue that
comes with substance use disorder, and the only way you
can rewire the brain. It's like rewiring a vacuum cleaner,
rewiring a radio, or you know, rewiring a power strip.
Speaker 8 (34:00):
You rewire the brain, not.
Speaker 9 (34:03):
By feeding the body drugs just as a substitute, but
in depth therapy, making selections, looking at the trauma in
your life, choosing not to be impulsive, choosing to process
your stress. You have to do that with another person,
(34:23):
face the face. It's not always about the drugs. He
may have been clean from heroin for two years, but
his brain was not done processing that. Impulsivity and impulsivity,
poor processing, and lack of insight. Those are the three
(34:45):
things that substance use disorder people suffer with every single
for alcohol, heroin. Okay, those are the three things. And
the only way through that rewiring is with another person
in a chair, face the face, and that's just not
being done today. Everybody wants a pill, they want to
quick fix, and these rogue doctors are not getting people
(35:07):
the therapy they need. In the end, the same thing
is going to happen somebody's going to be investigated by
the medical board. There'll be another trial any year. Somebody's
going to lose their license. And it's so sad that
Matthew Perry had to die this way.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Same thing with Michael Jackson, Conrad Murray, there was a trial,
he gets convicted. In the end he walks free, and
Michael Jackson still did. Same thing with Matthew Perry. A
bright light has been extinguished because of ketamine. And I
want to follow up with Miguel Melndez, a senior reporter
(35:48):
Entertainment Tonight. Miguel, I had no idea that Matthew Perry
had been through so much in his battle, even having
his colon burst from prolonged opioid abuse.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
But there's more, Miguel. Let's now cut five.
Speaker 15 (36:06):
Two years after his near death experience, Matthew Perry goes
to a rehab facility in Switzerland. He wrote that he
faked pains and dumbs to get oxy conton during COVID.
He was also getting daily ketamine infusions. While at the facility,
Perry needed to have surgery and was given propofol. When
he woke up eleven hours later, he found out his
heart had stopped for five minutes, and during the long
(36:28):
CPR process, eight of his ribs were broken. The doctor
then refused more METS.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
So this guy, Matthew Perry, I mean, we look at him, Miguel,
and we think, Wow, he's famous, he's a star, he's
got all this money in this beautiful home. This guy
was in a living hell that nobody knew about. I mean,
he had his com burst from opioid use.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Then he dies essentially during a surgery, and all eight
of his ribs are oken during CPR.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
And yet he went back to his own hellhole. He
couldn't stop himself. Miguil.
Speaker 8 (37:08):
Yeah, I mean it's tragic.
Speaker 6 (37:09):
All these near death experiences rooted from his need of
these substances. And he wrote in his book that he
thought that the only reason why he was revived and
given CPR in such aggressive manner was because the first
in performing the CPR said, I can't let the guy
from Friends die on my table. That can't happen on
(37:32):
my watch. So in retrospect, Perry asked himself, had I
not been on Friends, would they have stopped giving me
CPR after three minutes? And said they went five minutes? Wow,
five them, Wow, and you talk about these drugs in
his system. And even when he was detoxing in the
(37:53):
final episode of Friends in two thousand and four, when
the episode ended and it all came to a close
and everyone felt emotional, not just the cast and the crew,
but everyone who was tuned in too that show. Parry
himself said in his book that he felt nothing because
the detox drug that was in his system at the
time made him feel numb. So even in the happiest moments,
(38:16):
or what should have been the happiest moments of his life,
he felt nothing. And again, it all rooted because of
the subtance issue that he's had for so long.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Miguel, you are bringing up a whole other issue, not
only the battle against addiction, but how it affects your
life day to day. He couldn't even feel regular emotions.
I mean, you know, this morning when I was driving
the twins to school, I was so happy just being
with them. What a loss in your life not to
(38:50):
be able to feel all those wonderful things. And guys,
we're finding out now how his Kennemine addiction began. Take
your listen to Our cut six Our Friend Investigative reporter Nicole.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
Parton Matthew Perry wrote about the ketamine infusions he received
at the Swiss clinic. He explained in his memoir that
ketamine quote has my name written all over it. They
might as well have called it Maddie. The New York
Post reports that Perry described the drug as a giant
exhale and said he would be blindfolded and listening to
(39:26):
music when he got his injections. Perry also said he
would disassociate during the infusions and often felt as if
he were dying. Perry said he kept signing up for
it because it was something different, and quote, anything different
is good. Taking kay is like being hit in the
head with a giant, happy shovel, But the hangover was
(39:47):
rough and outweighed the shovel.
Speaker 11 (39:49):
Still.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
In his memoir, Perry says ketamine was not for.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Me, you know, doctor Maroney, Ketamine is my new nightmare.
My new nightmare because I've never knowne of it actually
killing anyone until now.
Speaker 9 (40:04):
Well, I think the ketamine awareness has went from zero
to a hundred on our National barometer. But the whole
idea is effective, evidence based FDA proved ketamine treatment comes
with counseling, and where we have rogue doctors and really
(40:25):
dark rabbit holes, is people are going to look for
this stuff and not match it to the counseling.
Speaker 8 (40:32):
The lack of feeling that.
Speaker 9 (40:34):
He had meant that he was just altered by drugs
seeing people having emotions. You know, you talked about your kids.
I got kids the same age. Where's the celebrities with
taking their kids to school?
Speaker 8 (40:51):
They miss all that stuff.
Speaker 9 (40:52):
They're in clinics, they're in rehab, their homes are in
the hills, and nobody had families out there.
Speaker 8 (41:01):
Let's get back to simple things. If you're going to
do katamine, you're going to seek it out.
Speaker 9 (41:06):
Seek out the FDA improved katomene, the counseling, the psychiatrist
of behavioral health clinics, not the rogue.
Speaker 8 (41:15):
Rogue leads to death.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
You know one thing that Matthew Perry said, he said
that when I ever die, I'm probably going to be
remembered from my role in friends. But what I want
to be remembered for is how I helped people and
maybe helped them get out of or avoid addiction.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
And he has done that.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
His lawyer's wanting to the judge that he lost his career,
his reputation, financial stability. Yeah, everybody that gets convicted in
connection with a death goes to jail as well. They
don't just quote lose their reputation. According to Matthew Perry's parents,
(42:02):
this doctor is quote among the most culpable of all
in their son's death.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
How do you think they feel to night?
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Sometimes I swear I feel there just ain't no justice.
Nancy Grace signing off good bye for it.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, it never ends with Hollywood justice.
Matthew Perry, the star of the iconic Friends series, dead
in his hot tub because of doctors and enablers.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
That allowed him to die.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yes, he bears some responsibility to we know that, but
what about the others that let it happen, that made
it happen?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
They are skating justice?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Is it because they're rich, high profile or just part
of the Hollywood MAYLEEU. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
I want to thank you for being with us. That's right.
In the Last Days, Matthew Perry's Ketemen doctor skates escapes
jail and a shock ruling as the court hears how
(00:55):
he is driving Uber for a living.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So good.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That is a blessing to him to drive Uber for
a living. He should be mopping floors in the penitentiary.
Matthew Perry is dead because of him, and I wonder
how many other people he prescribed. Kettymine two, one of
the doctors caught up in the criminal fallout surrounding the
(01:22):
Friends legend. Matthew Perry's Kennymine death some would call it
a murder, has avoided a jail time. What actually happened
to Matthew Perry. Let me start with the nine to
one one call.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Listen three give.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Us signs and radio in part of the drowning across
a few twey three give us sign.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
You can't tell a lot, but I learned something significant.
Let's hear that one more time.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Said twenty three give us signal and radio in front
of the drowning across the.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Tweeny three give us sign.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Now, some of those numbers are universal. Sometimes you hear
numbers across a police ban or on an ems.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That are specific to that region.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But what I'm hearing that really jumps out at me
as response to the drowning. So at the beginning, it
was believed that the friends start died of drowning because
that's what was reported to them. But what do we
really know? Take to listen to our friends at crime Online.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
The Los Angeles Medical Examiner determined that fifty four year
old Matthew Perry died from the acute effects of ketamine.
Other contributing factors listed were drowning, coronary artery disease, and
the effects of buprenorphine. Buprenorphine is used to treat opioid
use disorder, the manner of death has been ruled an accident.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Okay, see, I'm a trial lawyer, and that is why
the medical examiners and everybody at the crime lab would
go hide under their desk when they saw my beat
up Honda pulling up, because they knew I was going
to go through it line by line literally to make
sense of what they wrote down in their scientific findings.
(03:31):
What acute effects of ketamine, Other contributing factors were drowning,
coronary artery disease, prefer blue blue used to treat opioid disorder,
manner of death, accident. There's so much there. I could
do a whole flow chart on that to try to
explain all that to a jury. Luckily we have experts
(03:54):
with us. But first I'm going to go to a
special guest joining us, Miguel Melendez, joining us, senior writer
for Entertainment tonight.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Miguel, what a pleasure to have you on. Man.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
This sent shock waves through not only Hollywood but.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Across our country.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Because I'm going to follow this up with our shrink,
Karen Stark. We think we know Matthew Perry. Why because
we've seen him on the big screen. We've seen him
on the little screen. We follow him in the tabloids.
We think we know him and about his life. We've
been following his struggle with addiction, and a lot of
people can identify with that. If you haven't had that
(04:31):
struggle in somebody, you know somebody close to you.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Has had that struggle.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So Matthew Perry was kind of like every man that
was struggling with a lot. But to you, Miguel Melendez,
I want to go before I get into Matthew Perry
himself and how it ended up this way, I want
to talk to you about what happened, what surrounded the
discovery of Matthew Perry dead in a hot tub leading
(05:00):
up to that. Tell me about the discovery and what
came out at the time that he was first discovered
dead in the hot tub.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
Right, So, what we know of the timeline is that
at eleven am, Matthew had played pickleball. At one thirty
seven PM is when Matthew was last known to be
alive by his personal living assistant to live with him
in the Pacific Policy Home. He was off to run errands.
At one thirty seven pm. The living assistant returned home
and found Matthew floating face down in the jacuzzi. The
(05:29):
assistant jumped into the pool, moved Matthew into the sitting
position on the steps of the pool, and found him
by the way on the heated.
Speaker 7 (05:37):
Side of the pool.
Speaker 8 (05:38):
Called nine one one.
Speaker 6 (05:39):
Paramedics arrived and they moved and they pulled Matthew out
of the pus.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay, hold on, Miguel, You're giving me so much information
so quickly. I'm drinking from the fire hydrate because Miguel,
you know I like to dissect every single sentence, and
I loved everything you just said as far as factually
what I'm learning.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Could you say it again a very slowly? Okay? Did
you say the living assistant found him?
Speaker 9 (06:03):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Okay. Why did Matthew Perry have a live in assistant?
Speaker 8 (06:07):
That I can answer you, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (06:09):
I don't know the exact circumstances of what led to that.
I do know that the living assistant, based on this report,
is that he administered the detox drugs on Matthew twice
a day.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
That's important, Miguel Melendez, Hold on, Miguel, hold the thought
guys with me. He's a senior writer for entertainment tonight.
You all know him, Miguel Melendez, giving us everything we
need to know to analyze this drug ketamine that claimed
the life of Matthew Perry. Karen el start joining me,
(06:43):
renowned TV radio trauma expert at Karenstark dot com. Karen
with the c if you're trying to find her, Karen, So,
is it like a minder.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
You have with AA that.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I don't think they call it a minder. They call
it something else, someone that takes in on you. It's
like your partner, your buddy, that kind of that's who
you call when you have a problem or you're going
to relapse. Is that what you think is happening here?
He had somebody to help him.
Speaker 10 (07:12):
It's called a sponsor. And his assistant she was his sponsor.
She was his minder, as you said, Nancy, So she
was there. She could not stop him from taking something,
but certainly was trying. That was her role to make
sure that he was on the straight and narrow and
(07:33):
sticking to his determination to stop. And he was very
open about it. But he really did want to stop
taking drugs recreationally.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
He really did, and he made no secret about it.
What led up to that moment Miguel Melndez is describing.
But first again, Miguel, could you tell me the assistant
comes in, You.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Said he was the heater end of the hot tub.
Speaker 8 (08:02):
Correct.
Speaker 6 (08:02):
So at four pm, the living as system walks in
from running errands finds Matthew Perry floating space down in
the jacuzi in the heated end.
Speaker 11 (08:12):
Of the pool.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
The assistant jumped into the pool, moved Matthew into the
sitting position on the steps of.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
The pool, and called nine one one.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
Paramedics soon arrived, pulled Matthew out of the pool onto
the grass, where he was pronounced that at the scene,
you know, I think I had.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
It bass Akwar's Migam Melndez I was saying hot tub
because I've read jacuzie. But was the jacuzi or the hot.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Tub part of the pool? Was he in a pool
or was he in a hot tub or jacuzi?
Speaker 6 (08:43):
It looked like it was a long pool that has
a jacuzi, and then if they're not two separate Okay, that.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Makes perfect sense. Okay, guys, what led up to this moment?
Take a listen to our friend Nicole Parton.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Matthew Perry went to his country club to play a
game of pickleball with friends around eleven am. Perry returned
to his home after the game and was seen by
his assistant, who was leaving the house to run errands
at one thirty seven pm. At four o'clock PM, the
assistant returned to the home. Investigator Jennifer Hertzog says the
assistant found Perry floating face down in the heated end
(09:20):
of the pool. The assistant jumped into the pool and
moved him into a sitting position on the steps and
called nine to one one. Paramedics responded, pulled Perry out
of the pool and onto the grass, and pronounced him
dead on the scene at four seventeen PM. His stepfather,
Keith Morrison is listed as the informant, which means the
(09:41):
dateline host is who identified Perry to authorities.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Oh my goodness that mus is so horrible on the
stepfather to have to do that after the struggle he
Matthew Perry went through so publicly against substance abuse. Mike
McCormick joining me out of LA owner lead investing at
her MCM investigations.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Mike McCormick, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I'm very curious Matthew Perry had been so open and
public about his battle with addiction. Who I mean, even
I know about that two thousand miles away, who would
be supplying him drugs, ketamine and all the other things
in his system.
Speaker 7 (10:26):
It was either prescribed to him that Kennedy was prescribed,
or he's getting it off the street. There's only several
ways of doing it. My understanding is that the from
he's a assistant or past girlfriend miss Edwards that she's
been involved with him off and on from about two
(10:48):
thousand and six, and she used to purchase his drugs
off the street for him. So the kennamine and other
drugs he may have been taken to come from e
their short.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
When I say he skated of jail, boy, did he?
Mark Chavez, the second of two doctors who are convicted
with in connection to Matthew Perry's death, was sentenced to
just eight months of home confinement, even though he faced
the likelihood of at least ten years behind bars. He
(11:42):
played guilty. There's no question he did it. He played
guilty to one count conspiracy to distribute ketamine. He admits
he fraudulently sold and obtained ketamine to a fellow doctor,
Salvador Placincia.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I mean, what does it take.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
The man admitted he might as well have held a
gun to Matthew Perry's head and pull the trigger. What
happened that night and Matthew Perry's hot up?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Is that true? I don't know that. Is that true?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
And can that be corroborated that an ex girlfriend would
score drugs for him?
Speaker 6 (12:18):
Well, I don't know that the girlfriend and the assistant
are the same people. I do know that there was
a girlfriend who was his assistant at one time, and
she has gone on the record and asked that, you know,
the doctors be investigated.
Speaker 7 (12:31):
If they were the ones who supplied the ketamine.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
Now she's gone on record and said that if that happened,
and then this investigation needs to happen. But whether the
assistant and this ex girlfriend are the same people, it
doesn't seem to indicate that that's what happened based on
the investigation and the details that are in the medical
examiner's report.
Speaker 7 (12:52):
The assistant, this is Wendy Patrick.
Speaker 12 (12:56):
It looks like the assistant it was living with Matthew
Perry at the time of his death is a man
named Kenny Alamsa right, not the prior, not a prior
girlfriend or a female assistant.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
You're right, Wendy Patrick.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Guys, you're hearing California prosecutor and author of Why Bad
Looks Good Wendy Patrick at wendypatrickphd dot com, The Star
of Today with Dr Wendy on KCBQ. I was just
coming to you, Wendy on another point, a legal point,
and that is I saw the trial go down.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I don't know if you remember Archie Bunker of All
in the family. Yeah, when his son.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Died of an overdose, he went after the supplier in
the Fulton County courthouse. And I was just wondering, Wendy
about people knowing about his public struggle against addiction.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I mean, he wrote about it, he talked about it,
very open about it.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Who would supply someone battling addiction with It's a great
question when you have.
Speaker 12 (14:02):
When you're talking about somebody that's supposed to be a confidant,
a sponsor, a helper, a minder. We have all these terminology,
these terms that we use. It's very different than a
Michael Jackson situation where you actually have somebody medically administering
a drug, who would do it? I would have to say, Nancy,
as you and I and our listeners know the same
people that are selling drugs to begin with, maybe somebody
(14:25):
that doesn't know him well enough, or because it was
prescribed lawfully for a medicinal purpose, somebody that honestly, although mistakenly,
thought that he needed it or could handle it in
different doses. You know, ketamine, if it's being as supervised,
is used certainly not very not as often as many
other drugs. But you have to believe whether or not
(14:46):
somebody thought they might be doing him a favor, if
he was depressed, if he was.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Suicidal, they could not have been more wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
And if it comes out that we can find a
supplier or someone who aided or a bet at am oh,
wait to just think about this, Wendy Patrick about criminal
charges joining me right now?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Is the expert in this field as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
The pre eminent expert, Doctor William Maroney, medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist,
opioid treatment expert, author of American Narcan, which is on Amazon.
Doctor Moroney, take a listen to what we've learned about
the autopsy.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Matthew Perry's autopsy report doesn't say how or when Perry
used ketamine prior to his death, but the coroner ruled
out the ketamine treatments he had a week and a
half before his death because ketamine has a half life
of three to four hours or less. The report notes,
at the high levels of ketamine found in his post
mortem blood specimens, the main lethal effects would be from
(15:54):
both cardiovascular overstimulation and respiratory depression. Drowning contributes due to
the likelihood of submersion into the pool as he lapsed
into unconsciousness.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And that's not all, doctor Moroni, wait for it. I
would never have imagined this goes into the cocktail.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
The autopsy report noted Matthew Perry's history of chronic obstructive
pulmonary disease inmphysema and diabetes. The report mentions Perry's past
drug use, but notes Perry had reportedly been cleaned for
nineteen months. The New York Post reports that in the
autopsy report, a comment is made about Perry undergoing ketamine
infusion therapy, most recently one and a half weeks before
(16:37):
his death. The report states ketamine treatments are for anxiety
and depression, but ketamine in the system couldn't be from
the infusion therapy. Doctor Bankole Johnson, one of the leading
neuroscientists and physicians in the field, tells The New York
Post that ketamine in Perry's system is more likely from
recreational use.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Male hormone testosterone and jack. And there's one more ingredient.
Why was Matthew Perry getting injections of the male hormone
testosterone listen.
Speaker 11 (17:13):
According to Matthew Perry, he had been cleaned for nineteen months,
but The Daily Mail reports the actor died from an
overdose of the party drug ketamine. According to the autopsy report,
a detective who attended the scene of Perry's death said, quote,
during my investigation, no alcohol, elicit drugs or drug paraphernalia
were found unquote. The Daily Mail also claims the fifty
(17:34):
four year old was getting injections of the male hormone testosterone,
and an unnamed female associate claimed the injections were causing
him to be angry and mean for the last couple
of weeks.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
From my point of view, doctor Maroney as a lay
person and not a doctor an MD like you, if
something calls causes you to be angry and mean, it
makes me wonder if it also didn't jack up his
heart rate, this male testosterone injection.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I mean, I don't know what to make of it,
doctor Moroney.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Because you've got ketamine, you've got testosterone, you've got the
opioid treatment drug.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
There's so much going on there.
Speaker 9 (18:14):
What you have is a cocktail of disaster because you
probably are dealing with multiple doctors that are not communicating,
nobody's coordinating his care. And if he's getting ketamine.
Speaker 8 (18:32):
As it's said in the autopsy, there's.
Speaker 9 (18:36):
Ketamine contents in the stomach that would be ketamine pills.
That's a rogue doctor, somebody outside of good practice guidelines.
Speaker 8 (18:47):
Giving pills they have no business giving. In addition to
ketamine treatment, I.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Mean, is a ketamine used by vets so animals don't
have pain during operations.
Speaker 8 (18:58):
Yeah, it helps anesthesia for your cats and dogs. But
at low doses. It's been shown to be beneficial in
a massively unstable major depressive disorder. But guess what that
acceptable therapy is Nasal? It's a nasal spray with your psychiatrist.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Right, what you're saying, Ketamine, which many people believe is
just used by veterinarians. Now people are using it, and
you're saying that the only approved way for it to
be used by people is by a nasal spray.
Speaker 9 (19:39):
The acceptable SDA approved supervised ketamine treatment is to go
see your psychiatrists, have an appointment, get a nasal spray,
and stay until you're stable, and have a counseling session.
What you have here is somebody keeps saying, well, he's
in treatment, he's in recover, he's not getting enough psychosocial
(20:02):
therapy because he's impaired, he's impulsive, he's processing poor decisions
because he doesn't have that counseling part linked to all
this medicine, what is ketamine? Ketamine is a class of
medicine that works on transmitters called glutamate.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, speak English man, What speak English?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Is this something I've got to worry about? They're going
to have in the halls of my twins high school?
I mean, I hear about ecstasy, co marijuana, blah blah
blah blah.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
But ketamine.
Speaker 9 (20:40):
Ketamine's been abused for twenty years in drug culture and
drug use.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
But is it traded freely on the street.
Speaker 8 (20:47):
It is on the street.
Speaker 9 (20:48):
You can buy it if you can ask for from
your dealer, they'll get you some. But it's FDA approved
as a nasal spray, and he's not getting the FDA
approved version.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Okay, I heard somebody jumping in. Is it when your
Karen Stark?
Speaker 10 (21:01):
Karen. It's used as a club drug. It started years ago, Nancy,
but it's continuing. People do useage recreationally, but it's there
are a lot of trials going on where they are
psychedelics to stop addiction, just the opposite of what we
have here, and for depression, and that has to be
(21:24):
a trial because.
Speaker 6 (21:25):
It's not FDA approved.
Speaker 8 (21:27):
These are rogue doctors in rogue clinics.
Speaker 9 (21:32):
The only doctor that's probably legitimate here is the one
giving the bupin orphine. That's the hardest word to say,
but in order to do that you have to have training.
The rest of these people doing ketamine rogue.
Speaker 8 (21:44):
They're outside the law, they're outside good practice.
Speaker 9 (21:48):
We saw this with Anna, Nicole Smith, Michael Jackson, Prince,
all these rogue doctors treating all these celebrities and you
don't know who's around them.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Ketamine has been around it being abused for a long time.
We just don't know that much about it, and we
don't see it as much. We don't it's not soaked
into our national understanding as well. But as far as
I can remember that it's been called baby food, bump,
cat killer, cat valum, fort, dodge, green, green, k K land,
(22:22):
k hole.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
There's a million slang words for ketamine.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And the first time I ever saw that was when
I was prosecuting and somebody had it as an aside drug.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
They were dealing heroin, and they also had vitamin K.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And you're gonna laugh at this, Mike McCormick, I said, so,
what's wrong with vitamin K? Because I didn't know what
that vitamin K was?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Ketamine? And that was, oh gosh. I was prosecuting a.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Dope lord and he had a stash of vitamin K.
That's the first time I heard about Kennymine and Matthew.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
Garry was not the celebrity to be open about the
Keademy therapy sessions. I mean, the week before he died
on December first, Christy Keagan was very open about the
fact that she underwent Academy therapy session to celebrate her birthday.
And she said on Instagram how she saw Spaece and
time and her late so late son Jack is someone
(23:22):
she saw during this therapy session. So Kedemy has kind
of like sort of has come into the conscious as
of late and now more because of Matthew Perry's death.
You're seeing the horrible side eff that it can have.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
So Miguel Alndez from at Joining Us, you're saying that
it's common use among celebrities to what fight depression.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
To fight depression, to figure themselves, to use them to
use it as a form of therapy. Christy Keagan is
far from the only celebrity who has been open about
taking or undergoing Academy therapy sessions. The lights of Sharon
Osbourne and Pete Davidson.
Speaker 7 (24:03):
Who have been open about this.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
But again, Academy therapy session is not dangerous if it's
done under supervision, as our doctor seen doctor Sareff said,
when you go rogue, and in this case, it seems
to indicate that that's what Matthew Perry did. You're going
to see the fatal consequences, consequences, and that's just that's
exactly what happened here.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
You're hearing Miguel Melendez, senior writer at and I've got
to get everything he.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Said, which is all correct.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
By the way, explain to me medically, doctor William Maroney,
renowned expert in this field.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So when you have ketamine treatment with.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
A doctor, you're saying, keny maine is ingested nasally like
through dristand the spray into your nose, and if it's
used any other way than it's rogue.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Do I have that right, Maroney?
Speaker 9 (24:57):
The reason why it's rogue is the FDA approved spray
comes with specific conditions, that you're observed, that they follow instructions,
and that your safety comes first, and you really can't
even drive to and from your session.
Speaker 8 (25:14):
You're supposed to have somebody take care of you.
Speaker 9 (25:16):
As soon as you let somebody take ketamine pills, well,
it's unobserved, it's uncontrolled, and it's clear there was ketamine
in his stomach and his level in his blood was
exactly halfway between low anesthesia and high anesthesia. You don't
have those levels when you're supervised. And the whole idea
(25:40):
that ketamine therapy is matched to a psycho social treatment
of behavioral counseling session. That's where you make the changes
you have better insight, you have better processing and stress, and.
Speaker 8 (25:54):
You're not impulsive.
Speaker 9 (25:55):
The last thing you want with impulsive behaviors with somebody
in addiction is the.
Speaker 8 (26:00):
Them on postosterone. That's insane. Well, everybody knows it makes
you feel really good as a man.
Speaker 9 (26:10):
You're sixty years old, suddenly you feel thirty six, okay,
but it comes at the price of frustration and anger
and really short tempers. Add that to the impulsivity of
substance use disorder and you could have, you know, a
dark rabbit hole, a hidden monster in the shadows, and
(26:32):
somebody who's not going to listen to somebody when they say, oh,
you know, it's taken a few too many ketamine pills.
Ketamine spray is not something you do every day. It's
once or twice a month with counseling sessions.
Speaker 13 (26:44):
And because he had the pills in his stomach still
at the time the autopsy, we know it was rogue
aketamine and not the type used for infusion treatment.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And of course you've got the other factor weighing.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Into Matthew Perry's death, and that is with all these
drugs in the system, he gets into the pool, the
hot tub and it's not the first time.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Take a listen to our cut thirteen.
Speaker 12 (27:12):
Now on Amergency.
Speaker 14 (27:13):
How you doing?
Speaker 9 (27:14):
This is security from Beverly Hilton.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
All right with going on?
Speaker 14 (27:16):
I need a paramedic family. I got a forty six
year old female found in the bathroom. But a fall
up guy right now, but they're requesting paramedic triw Okay,
para fell a bathroom. I'll love Rumorscannel. I'm not sure
she fell. She was in the bathroom with the water
fourth fourth sixty four four three four.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 14 (27:29):
There's room four three fourth yeah, okay, and there's not
eat twist or anything else. There's room four three four
three four yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Okay.
Speaker 14 (27:35):
You don't know see your country.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Of breathing at all.
Speaker 14 (27:37):
Apparently she wasn't breathing and she's twenty six year old.
Speaker 9 (27:39):
She was not breathing.
Speaker 14 (27:40):
Yeah, okay, but she is a breathing I aw, I
don't know. Okay, that's the first thing that called me,
was guy rad And i'kay.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
Much out of it.
Speaker 14 (27:48):
Okay, you know, got r card to go in there now, Okay,
we'll come to breathe for fire over there was that
a person not breathing.
Speaker 6 (27:52):
There's kind of like the first one.
Speaker 12 (27:53):
Still not breathing.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Yeah, that's correct. Okay, we'll get in there.
Speaker 14 (27:55):
For not bringing everybody, give me to the real plans?
Can I get to pr Yeah, we're going there. Now
are you getting into the realms?
Speaker 12 (28:00):
Like I've got to get keep cart truck.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 14 (28:02):
You kept hanging up on us, kept hanging up on you.
Speaker 7 (28:05):
Okay, right, we're good.
Speaker 12 (28:05):
Now you go it.
Speaker 7 (28:06):
Okay, okay, back, thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
And there was water in Whitney Houston's lungs, indicating she
was alive when she was submerged underwater. But according to
what we learn, the level of cocaine in Whitney Houston's
body was not lethal, but it was enough to make
her unaware of the fact she was going underwater, and
(28:31):
in an eerie twist, the same thing happens to her daughter.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
To listen to our cut sixteen, The.
Speaker 11 (28:39):
Only child of Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown, Bobby Christina
Brown wanted to follow her mother's footsteps as a singer
and actress. Tyler Perry cast Bobby Christina Brown in his
television series For Better or Worse and had high praise
for her work. In her personal life, she became engaged
in Nick Gordon, a friend of the family who lived
with them from the age of twelve. Never officially adopted
(29:01):
by Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown, Bobby Christina Brown referred
to him as her big Bra online. Their engagement shocked many.
On January thirty one, twenty fifteen, Nick Gordon found Bobby
Christina face down, unconscious in a bathtub in her home
in Alfaretta, Georgia.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And then, just recently, we lose another celebrity, Aaron Carter
in our cut twenty one.
Speaker 11 (29:22):
As the younger brother of Nick Carter of the Bank
Street Boys, Aaron Carter had a connection to the big time.
He could sing, he could dance, and he had the
look as with most teen idols when they're fifteen minutes
is up. Aaron Carter struggled. His first stint in a
treatment facility was announced by his manager when the singer
was just twenty three. Then a year later it was
announced that he completed a twenty eight day rehab stint
(29:43):
at the Betty Ford Center. On November fourth, twenty twenty two,
Aaron Carter's housekeeper found his body in the bathtub at
his home. The Los Angeles County Department of Medical Examiner
Corner ruled cause of death was attributed to drowning after
inhaling die flora ethane and taking the generic of the
brand name Xanax. The report also indicated the Carter was
(30:03):
incapacitated while in the bathtub due to the effects of
the drugs he took, which contributed to his death by drowning.
Aaron Carter was thirty four.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
You know, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor and author. So many people,
not just celebrities, die in pools and hot tubs after
too many drugs or too much alcohol.
Speaker 12 (30:25):
Yeah, it's so unfortunate. You know, we only hear about
some of these famous people because they're famous. Think about
how many men and women, friends, neighbors, family members die
in the same way. But maybe don't just grab headlines.
It's one of the reasons we always want to reach
out sooner rather than later for people that are struggling.
And I like the way in that last clip they
(30:46):
talked a little bit about what happens after the fame.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
You know.
Speaker 12 (30:49):
One of the things that Matthew Perry said, he said,
taking k is like being hit in the head with
a giant happy shovel, but the hangover outweighed the benefits.
And that's part of what I think celebrities are getting
better at explaining and that yes, perhaps they're self medicating,
but it's not worth it in the end. And that's
one of the messages that Matthew Perry wanted to.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Leave us with Karen start joining us a renowned psychologist. Karen,
we know that Matthew Perry told everyone he had been
clean going on two years? Is that common for addicts
to insist their cleim.
Speaker 10 (31:26):
Is tremendous amounts of denial, Nancy, because they really are struggling,
in most cases to be clean. They don't want to
be addicted, but they're very, very susceptible. And when you
think about somebody who's famous like that, there are always
people around who were willing to oblige them with drugs
(31:47):
and tempt them with drugs because they want to make
them happy, they want to be around the celebrity. It's
something that happens all the time. So I am sure
he was trying but obviously not succeeding, or that ketamine
would not have been there he.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Had really been through a battle. I want you to
take a listen to our cut four our friends from
crime online. Something I didn't know until after Matthew Perry
passed away.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
After years of addiction.
Speaker 15 (32:17):
Matthew Perry spent five months in the hospital after his
colon burst from prolonged opioid abuse. Perry says he was
in surgery for seven hours, in a coma for two weeks,
and doctors told his family he had a two percent
chance of survival.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Stripped of his medical license when his reputation who cares
everybody else that.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Causes a death goes to jail?
Speaker 9 (32:53):
Why not him?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Now? He claims he's scraping by as a ride chair driver.
You know what, take more jobs. He also begged the
court to credit him with time served.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So wait his sentences. He drives an uber that's his sentence.
What happened to Matthew Perry? Doctor William Moroney joining us
the pre eminent expert in this field.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Doctor Moroney, I believe that if my colon had burst.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
From prolonged drug use, I would go through hell in
high water not to get addicted again. But see that's
me on the outside looking in because I'm not addicted.
Addicts tell me that they can't stop themselves.
Speaker 9 (33:40):
What it is is there is an insight issue that
comes with substance use disorder, and the only way you
can rewire the brain. It's like rewiring a vacuum cleaner,
rewiring a radio, or you know, rewiring a power strip.
Speaker 8 (34:00):
You rewire the brain, not.
Speaker 9 (34:03):
By feeding the body drugs just as a substitute, but
in depth therapy, making selections, looking at the trauma in
your life, choosing not to be impulsive, choosing to process
your stress. You have to do that with another person,
(34:23):
face the face. It's not always about the drugs. He
may have been clean from heroin for two years, but
his brain was not done processing that. Impulsivity and impulsivity,
poor processing, and lack of insight. Those are the three
(34:45):
things that substance use disorder people suffer with every single
for alcohol, heroin. Okay, those are the three things. And
the only way through that rewiring is with another person
in a chair, face the face, and that's just not
being done today. Everybody wants a pill, they want to
quick fix, and these rogue doctors are not getting people
(35:07):
the therapy they need. In the end, the same thing
is going to happen somebody's going to be investigated by
the medical board. There'll be another trial any year. Somebody's
going to lose their license. And it's so sad that
Matthew Perry had to die this way.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Same thing with Michael Jackson, Conrad Murray, there was a trial,
he gets convicted. In the end he walks free, and
Michael Jackson still did. Same thing with Matthew Perry. A
bright light has been extinguished because of ketamine. And I
want to follow up with Miguel Melndez, a senior reporter
(35:48):
Entertainment Tonight. Miguel, I had no idea that Matthew Perry
had been through so much in his battle, even having
his colon burst from prolonged opioid abuse.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
But there's more, Miguel. Let's now cut five.
Speaker 15 (36:06):
Two years after his near death experience, Matthew Perry goes
to a rehab facility in Switzerland. He wrote that he
faked pains and dumbs to get oxy conton during COVID.
He was also getting daily ketamine infusions. While at the facility,
Perry needed to have surgery and was given propofol. When
he woke up eleven hours later, he found out his
heart had stopped for five minutes, and during the long
(36:28):
CPR process, eight of his ribs were broken. The doctor
then refused more METS.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
So this guy, Matthew Perry, I mean, we look at him, Miguel,
and we think, Wow, he's famous, he's a star, he's
got all this money in this beautiful home. This guy
was in a living hell that nobody knew about. I mean,
he had his com burst from opioid use.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Then he dies essentially during a surgery, and all eight
of his ribs are oken during CPR.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
And yet he went back to his own hellhole. He
couldn't stop himself. Miguil.
Speaker 8 (37:08):
Yeah, I mean it's tragic.
Speaker 6 (37:09):
All these near death experiences rooted from his need of
these substances. And he wrote in his book that he
thought that the only reason why he was revived and
given CPR in such aggressive manner was because the first
in performing the CPR said, I can't let the guy
from Friends die on my table. That can't happen on
(37:32):
my watch. So in retrospect, Perry asked himself, had I
not been on Friends, would they have stopped giving me
CPR after three minutes? And said they went five minutes? Wow,
five them, Wow, and you talk about these drugs in
his system. And even when he was detoxing in the
(37:53):
final episode of Friends in two thousand and four, when
the episode ended and it all came to a close
and everyone felt emotional, not just the cast and the crew,
but everyone who was tuned in too that show. Parry
himself said in his book that he felt nothing because
the detox drug that was in his system at the
time made him feel numb. So even in the happiest moments,
(38:16):
or what should have been the happiest moments of his life,
he felt nothing. And again, it all rooted because of
the subtance issue that he's had for so long.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Miguel, you are bringing up a whole other issue, not
only the battle against addiction, but how it affects your
life day to day. He couldn't even feel regular emotions.
I mean, you know, this morning when I was driving
the twins to school, I was so happy just being
with them. What a loss in your life not to
(38:50):
be able to feel all those wonderful things. And guys,
we're finding out now how his Kennemine addiction began. Take
your listen to Our cut six Our Friend Investigative reporter Nicole.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
Parton Matthew Perry wrote about the ketamine infusions he received
at the Swiss clinic. He explained in his memoir that
ketamine quote has my name written all over it. They
might as well have called it Maddie. The New York
Post reports that Perry described the drug as a giant
exhale and said he would be blindfolded and listening to
(39:26):
music when he got his injections. Perry also said he
would disassociate during the infusions and often felt as if
he were dying. Perry said he kept signing up for
it because it was something different, and quote, anything different
is good. Taking kay is like being hit in the
head with a giant, happy shovel, But the hangover was
(39:47):
rough and outweighed the shovel.
Speaker 11 (39:49):
Still.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
In his memoir, Perry says ketamine was not for.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Me, you know, doctor Maroney, Ketamine is my new nightmare.
My new nightmare because I've never knowne of it actually
killing anyone until now.
Speaker 9 (40:04):
Well, I think the ketamine awareness has went from zero
to a hundred on our National barometer. But the whole
idea is effective, evidence based FDA proved ketamine treatment comes
with counseling, and where we have rogue doctors and really
(40:25):
dark rabbit holes, is people are going to look for
this stuff and not match it to the counseling.
Speaker 8 (40:32):
The lack of feeling that.
Speaker 9 (40:34):
He had meant that he was just altered by drugs
seeing people having emotions. You know, you talked about your kids.
I got kids the same age. Where's the celebrities with
taking their kids to school?
Speaker 8 (40:51):
They miss all that stuff.
Speaker 9 (40:52):
They're in clinics, they're in rehab, their homes are in
the hills, and nobody had families out there.
Speaker 8 (41:01):
Let's get back to simple things. If you're going to
do katamine, you're going to seek it out.
Speaker 9 (41:06):
Seek out the FDA improved katomene, the counseling, the psychiatrist
of behavioral health clinics, not the rogue.
Speaker 8 (41:15):
Rogue leads to death.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
You know one thing that Matthew Perry said, he said
that when I ever die, I'm probably going to be
remembered from my role in friends. But what I want
to be remembered for is how I helped people and
maybe helped them get out of or avoid addiction.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
And he has done that.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
His lawyer's wanting to the judge that he lost his career,
his reputation, financial stability. Yeah, everybody that gets convicted in
connection with a death goes to jail as well. They
don't just quote lose their reputation. According to Matthew Perry's parents,
(42:02):
this doctor is quote among the most culpable of all
in their son's death.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
How do you think they feel to night?
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Sometimes I swear I feel there just ain't no justice.
Nancy Grace signing off good bye for it.
Host
Nancy Grace
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