November 9, 2025 • 41 mins
Jussie Smollett, hate crime hoaxer, chosen for Special Forces: World's Toughest Test Season 4.
It's a reality competition show on Fox where stars undergo military-style training and extreme challenges. This appearance marks Smollett's return to the network and public life following the fallout from his 2019 hate crime allegations.
Now, Smollett has had to withdraw from the reality competition on medical grounds.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Oh My Stars, does it
never end with this poser? This felon? Oh My Stars.
Jesse Smollett, remember him, the race hoaxer who claimed he
(00:27):
was attacked because he is black and gay and when
police arrived at his luxury apartment, he still had a
rope around his neck. It was all a lie. Oh
My Stars, He's getting rewarded. Special Forces the World's Toughest
Test unveils its celebrity contestants competing in the fourth season
(00:53):
of the Quasie military training reality show Oh My Stars,
with Smolette wisecracking on Instagram. It was at this moment
I said I should have just done the masked singer Nancy.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Jesse's Molett became the fourth celebrity to drop out of
season four of Special Forces World's Toughest Test. The stars
were dropped into a simulated war zone for a challenge
and charged with finding and extracting fallen comrades. When the
team reported back to base camp, Jesse's Malette suffered a
painful cough and had to be medically discharged.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Well, okay, Iike say quite often I've seen it all,
but now I really have seen it all. I'mancy Grace,
this is crime Stories. I want to thank you for
being with us. The disgraced race hoaxer swore he was
attacked by two MAGA supporters who actually turned out to
(01:57):
be his personal trainer, the Osendaro brothers. They swear under
oath he hired them to pour bleach on him and
put a noose around his neck to bolster his celebrity
profile and get a raise. Remember, he was a star
of the hit series Empire that came crashing down after
(02:21):
he pulled off this stunt. Let me jog your recollection.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Listen to this. You know it's two o'clock in the morning.
You're going to subway. Subsperia is open twenty four hours.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Like people kill you when they say things like that,
because it's like the subway is open twenty four hours
for a reason, so that when you're hungry at night
and you ain't got no food, you go to subway
the camera and be facing north.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
How is that my issue? It feels like if I
had said it was a Muslim or a Mexican.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Or someone black, I feel like the Dowters would have
supported me a lot, much, a lot more. And that
says a lot about the place that we are in
our country right now, the fact.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
That we have these fear mongols, these people that.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Are trying to separate us, and.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
It's just not okay. It's just not okay.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
And for all of the people, the next time that
you see someone report something, maybe well after the fact
that it happened, and you say to them, well, why
are you waiting until now? Just remember that mine was
reported right away and look what has happened.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
You are hearing TV star Jesse Smillette talking to superstar
Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who
have doubted his story that he was attacked by I
believe it started as two white males. It changed at
some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is how
(04:02):
the story started. That also has changed to am in
the morning, coming out of a subway sandwich shop. According
to Jesse Similette, everyone knows him big star on Empire.
He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put
a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called
(04:23):
his manager and not nine one one. When he walked
back home. He then called nine one one. When police arrived,
they found him sitting there and roughed up and the
rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If
this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not
(04:45):
the truth. When he talks about his detractors dividing people,
is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this
is not about politics. I think all editions lie, every
single one of them. This is about a potential hoax
(05:07):
on police or a horrible hate crime. With me an
all star panel forensics expert, and boy do we need
her now, Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction, renowned
criminal attorney, DARRYLD Cohen, former prosecutor, joining me from Atlanta,
join me, joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall,
(05:30):
and joining me right now, crime online dot COM's Ellenclaurin
E K. Let's just start at the beginning. Now, Typically,
when I'm hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything,
usually the wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it,
and go back to sleep. All right. Usually I don't
feel like getting up and even going to the fridge
(05:50):
because I'm exhausted. But let's just start with a two
am subway sandwich call.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Go well, It does appear that johnsy Small at High
arrived to the airport in Chicago late. So I don't
think this was a matter of him waking up in
the middle of that and going out to the spreading
cold in the subway. It was a very cold day though,
and he's he tells police that he's on his way
home with his subway sandwich.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
W whit whit right, whit whit? Wait? This is in Chicago, correct,
that's right? Yea, So how cold is it it?
Speaker 5 (06:24):
We were pretty sure it was below freedom temperatures. This
this was during a very very very cold spell in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I don't know the exact doctor Bethney. He must have
been very hungry, very hungry.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in
the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor,
So if it's twenty degrees out regular temperature, the wind
starts blowing forty fifty degree below wind chill. I did
my undergraduate work there. Nobody goes out at two.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing
his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he
thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.
But that's why I always like to start, Darryl, not
with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is
he wakes up, according to his story, at two am,
(07:18):
and instead of getting left over piece out of the
fridge or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter
may be, he goes out in forty below to get
a Subway sandwich. See I start right there, That's where
I start the story. And I think that's crazy. I'm
not saying it didn't happen. I just think that's Craig
(07:38):
cray Well.
Speaker 7 (07:39):
I'm wondering if Subway was actually open at two in
the morning.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yep, they're twenty four hour. Yeah. I love Subway. Although
I did have a mini boycott for a week after
Jared was, you know, busted on child porn. I guess
it was their spokesperson. But long story short, Darryl Cohen,
I mean, a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely
nothing to do with it.
Speaker 7 (08:04):
I don't think it has anything to do with it.
I think what has to do with it is did
it or did it not happen? And as far as
I can see, from all the evidence that's been presented
to me. This guy is looking for more publicity for
whatever the reason, and he is about to get it.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Well, he's getting it all right, Okay, e K. Let's
just go with the premise that it's true because the official,
the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being
treated as a victim because he is a victim book
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. As you will recall, soon
(08:46):
after Smilette takes to the airwaves describing how he was
the victim of a hate crime, Chicago PD released surveillance
images of the perpetrators and the two as also being black.
They are Nigerian American brothers. So we see the attackers
(09:10):
performing a quote hate crime on Smolette, who is black,
and the purpse are black. Okay, just let that soak
in for a moment. To claim a hate crime and
wrap a rope around your neck as if you were
threatened with lynching, nothing could be more incendiary in our
(09:36):
American consciousness. A horrible, horrible era that our country endured,
all brought to the forefront by Smolette's hoax. Then evidence
came out Smolet orchestrated his own attack and paid the
(09:58):
brothers nearly four thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Idiot wrote a check.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, idiot wrote a check for his hate crime attack.
What more do we know?
Speaker 8 (10:12):
When did you because as you said, it was an
accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you
make that information available to the police.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
We gave, we had to give the phone records, which
they didn't originally ask for my phone records.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
They asked for my phone.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
They wanted me to give my phone to the tech
for three to four hours.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Why Because I have private pictures and videos and numbers,
my partner's number, my family's number, my castmate's number, my
friend's numbers, my private emails, my private songs, my private
voice memos.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I don't know what that's going to be to hand
over my phone for.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been
put out there.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You are hearing our friend superstar Robin Robert said ABC's GMA,
She's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smolette, the
Empire star Everybody Loves Empire, the Empire star who claims
that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he
decided he was hungry, goes out to subway sandwich, gets
(11:30):
a sandwich and is attacked by two guys that throw
acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around
his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He
manages to get home and call police. He says, he
calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that
is why they wanted the phone, to confirm that he
(11:53):
called his manager and not nine to one one. They
are being clear why they want the phone, But they
want the phone. Karen Smith, journing me forensics expert out
of Florida. Why do they want Jesse Smollett's phone.
Speaker 9 (12:06):
Listen, when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators,
the best way now in the world of social media
and texting is to get the phone of the victim.
You can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook
and Twitter and all those things, and text messages especially
Listen if nothing happened. And I understand, you know the
(12:26):
privacy thing, and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever
that he want released. But the police are They're not
going to go into that. That's not their interest. Their
interest is looking at communications between Jesse Smollett and these
other alleged perpetrators, if there was any, if there was any,
the phone call that he made to his manager, what
(12:47):
time did he make it, where did he make it from?
All of those questions have to be answered, and they
have to have the device. They can't just take somebody's
word for it. That's not how life works anymore.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta, criminal to defense attorney, former prosecutor,
felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted. I
just missed him, Darryl. At the time when we were
when I first started prosecuting, we did not have DNA,
we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it
old school, okay, and we did it now with the
(13:19):
advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is
saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is
a problem to me. I don't have a problem with
anything else he's saying. But when he says find you
know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry
at two am or goes out in sub zero that
(13:41):
below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't
hand your phone over to cops. That is a big
red flag to hay with your private communications. If you
have had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a
rope tied around your neck out on the street, you're
handing your phone over because you want those people caught, right,
(14:05):
I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing, Darryl.
Speaker 7 (14:08):
Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with finding
out why he would call his manager. So the last
time I checked, was not a law enforcement person, was
not a bodyguard. Why would you not call the police
any of us. Any of us, whether we're an actor,
whether we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief, whatever we
may be, we are going to call the police if
(14:30):
something bad happens. So yeah, I've got a real problem
with him not turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse,
but he thinks he's Jesse James. He is having you
work now, he's having a real problem.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
You probably see that all night, law Thank you having
it coming up with that. He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay,
you know what, I'm going to just pass over that one.
You know, it's a big deal to me, Darryl, And
I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but in
my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor because
(15:04):
you could get a jury eating out of your hand.
You're always prepared. You need the law, you need the facts.
You knew it all when you went in front of
a jury. And in this case, when you have a
victim that does not cooperate with police, that is a problem.
I don't care who he is. I don't care who
he sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care.
(15:28):
But if you don't cooperate with police, then that is
a problem with me. What's your problem?
Speaker 7 (15:36):
It's a problem with me as well. I've got another
problem with that. How in the world in the middle
of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees.
It's about the same frozen do you get mugged by
two people who know you're obviously black but you're homosexual?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Really and you well because he's a famous place on
this TV star. So here's the thing, this is another
wrinkle in this. To Ellenklauren Crime online dot Com, hold on,
I'm going to write this down. Here's the thing. So,
if they were targeting Jesse Smollette, Okay, hold on, if
(16:15):
they were targeting him and this was a hate crime.
How did they know to be outside the subway at
two am with bleach and rope? Or are they just
hanging around to get a sandwich and they happen to
have bleach and rope with them? If they were targeting
(16:35):
Jesse Smolette, e kay, were they casing out his apartment?
Why were they there at two am? And I haven't
even touched on these two guys, these two Nigerian guys
that work out in his apartment building gym that know him,
(16:56):
that have been extras on the set of Empire, or
at least one of them has that have been questioned
and released and allegedly are now saying they were paid
to do the attack. But first of all, I'm going
to get to the theory, Ellen to Laurence. So the
perps were what waiting outside the subway sandwich shop for him?
(17:18):
I mean, what's the theory here? How did they know
he was going to be getting a sandwich at two am?
If he was the one targeted for a hate crime.
Speaker 9 (17:27):
Well, Nancy, they.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
May have not known that he was going to get
a sandwich at two am, But Jesse has an un
Instagram account.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
And he's a very active social media user.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
And we learned over the weekend that he had been
in New York during the previous days and he was
on He had slowed back to Chicago that night, but
his flight was the lead and he came in much
later than expected, and he posted a couple of Instagram
stories on his Instagram account talking about how.
Speaker 9 (17:58):
His flight was the leaded.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Someone who had to have had a little bit of
information about what was going on with him that day.
If they wanted to track his movements, they could to
a certain degree through his social media activity.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Jesse Smilett, the infamous race hoaxer, the former star of Empire.
He brought that Crashing Down is going to star on
Special Forces World's Toughest Test.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
The teams had to navigate tough terrain, obstacles and fake
explosions for the reality series in the hot Moroccan desert. Reportedly,
Jesse was determined to power through the difficult reality competition,
but in addition to nearly throwing up mid exercise, he
developed a nasty cough that became worse, ultimately leading to
(18:46):
him being declared medically ineligible.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Guys, what more do we know?
Speaker 4 (18:51):
I think that what people need to hear is just
the truth. It's just the truth, because everybody has their
own idea. Some are healing and some are hurtful. But
I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community,
(19:12):
young black children, to know how strong that they are,
to know the power that they hold in their little pinky.
Speaker 10 (19:21):
It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse
Smolett bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the
raw motions.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram
and dms and things like that.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
It's like, but you know, I'm a public figure.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
I'm very outspoken. Sometimes maybe too outspoken, but it's who
I am, you know, So I get the idea of
pissing people off, that you're gonna rub people.
Speaker 10 (20:00):
In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a
letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago with
threatening language, at least with powdery substance likely Taylanol, do
you think there's a link between the letter and the attack?
And you did mention it to the police right away out.
Speaker 11 (20:18):
Of the letter, absolutely, just because on the letter it
had a stick figure hanging from a tree with a
gun pointing towards it, with the words that said small
at Jesse, you will die black.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
There was no address, but the return address.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
It in big red, you know, like caps, maga Did
I make that up too?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
You are hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking
with Empire star Jesse Smillett, And right now we know
that the police investigation is going on. Police chief has
confirmed the two guys that allegedly are identified in the
video that police believe committed the act the attack on
Jesse Smollett has been apprehended, questioned, and released with no charges.
(21:06):
What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters
that he claims he got leading up to this attack?
Threatening letters?
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Yes, one, exactly one week before the night of the
alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where
he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it contained
direct death threats, homophobic.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
And racist language.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
There's two things about the letter that are coming up
more recently in the discussion around this case. One of
those is that some unidentified forces who have access to
the set and may even work with Jesse, have told
CBS News that he was unhappy about the response to
the letter and the threat that he got, that he
(21:55):
felt that there wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and
that he was angry, and that they're questioning did he
set up this orchestrate this purported hate crime as retaliation
for that. The other thing that we're learning, and again
these are not official law enforcement statements. These are unidentified sources.
(22:16):
You are talking to new Thoughtless. But we're learning that
the letter was made out of and you can see
it in the photos.
Speaker 9 (22:22):
The letter was written sort of.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
Like a ransom type of letter with cutout letters from
a magazine. And we're hearing that when investigators went and
raided the apartment of these two brothers who have been
identified as possibly involved in this attack, they took away
a magazine.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Wait a minute, Wait a minute, dodgor Bethany Marshall. Are
these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha
Christi and Erquille Poirot, like in the movies where you
cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them
on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.
(23:01):
And also we are learning for sure that in a
follow up visit by investigators, Malette says the attackers mentioned
something about this is Maga country, which relates back to
the Trump campaign. So the whole situation is fluid, but
I can tell you this. Remember the runaway Bride when
(23:22):
she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut grass
and do community service out in the public. I forgot
how long other people have done jail time, hard jail
time for bringing police in on a hoax of an investigation,
because who knows what crimes were really happening at the
time of a hoax, and instead of dealing with the
(23:45):
real crime, cops are out spending thousands and thousands of
dollars and man hours trying to solve a fake call.
And this one, if it is fake, is a whopper.
Now what do you make Dr bethany More? Marshall the studio,
the Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've been told,
(24:06):
but according to sources, he was unhappy with the reaction
to the letters. Does that mean what they didn't get
enough attention? What does that mean to you, doctor bethany.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
Well, you were mentioning the runaway Bride and these crimes
where we find out it's a hoax in the end.
And I don't know if this was a hoax or not.
But in forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained
to do with crime victims is to find out if
they're doing something called malingering. MA Lingering is when you
(24:35):
make up medical symptoms or you exaggerate medical symptoms for
some external reward. It's that simple. Now, in twenty percent
of criminal cases, lingering is involved in some way, twenty
percent of PI cases, as you can imagine MA lingering,
thirty percent of disability cases. The sicker I am, the
(24:57):
more I'm going to get some kind of reward or attention,
or I'm going to get out of some consequence, like
You're not going to send me to jail, I'm not
going to have to go to the military. So what's
so interesting to me about this story is the exaggerate
two aspects, the exaggerated nature of his symptoms. He's sitting
(25:18):
on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the rope around
his neck. Wouldn't you pull a rope off? No, he's
sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that he's
been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ. Anything
that could paint him in a sympathetic light he keeps
putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy nature
(25:39):
of the timeline. When somebody lingers, they usually obstruct the
investigation process. They do not want the investigators to know
clearly what happens. So if I have a patient and
my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall, I was,
I don't know. My boss keeps.
Speaker 9 (25:55):
Yelling at me.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
I want to bring a lawsuit. You know, I say, well,
what did your boss say? Well, I don't know. I
just can't remember. So lingering is associated with very fuzzy
dcare Now.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Is it true? Ek ellencalorin Crime online dot Com investigative
reporter that Smold had been in New York to audition
for a role in the play that is very oddly
similar to his alleged attack. What do we know about
the play for which he was auditioning.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
He was at a reading.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
Actually it was an audition.
Speaker 9 (26:29):
I believe he's already.
Speaker 5 (26:31):
Part of the cast. But that's what he was doing
in New York. He was flying back to he was
flying back to Chicago from New York, and he was
in New York because he was doing a reading of
the script of this play. And the character in the
play is a person of color, it's a gay, it's
a celebrity, a sports star in the cave in the
case of the fictional character. But he is someone who
(26:53):
the character is someone who has been the victim of
hate crimes that according to the reports that we're reading
that have some similarities in the crime that was allegedly
committed against him, just that within hours of him arriving.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Back to Chicago for the same wording, the same slurs,
awful slurs. If this is true, it is a hate crime.
I'm learning also Daryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former
prosecutor in felony court that he Smolette did not call police.
It was a close associate about forty minutes after the attack,
(27:30):
according to the New York Times, and I think that
was his manager. He did not call police. And when
Cox got to his place, he still was wearing the
rope around his neck.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Helped me, well, I can help you, Nancy, because it
sounds to me like a setup. Did you also pay
attention to his voice. This is a guy that's reading
a script. This is not someone who's upset. This is
not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not
going to be and gentle. Add that to the cocktail.
(28:03):
Add the fact that he's not giving his phone to
the police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all
he can do is say, oh my gosh, I was
attacked and this is terrible. But he has a noose
around his neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a
guy who was Look many times, Nancy, people equate stars
(28:27):
on television or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry,
not the same. Some are, some are not. This guy
is reading a script. He saw a way to get even.
Perhaps he saw a way to make more money. Perhaps,
But what he didn't see is that he's not as
bright as he believes himself to be. So he's not shakesap.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Take a listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar brothers
Ola and abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told
detectives their.
Speaker 12 (28:57):
Role in the reported January twenty ninth to ten on
actor Jesse Smollette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say
Smolett pay the brothers thousands to carry out a staged attack.
Somolette had this to say about the scuffle with his attackers.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
He said, this.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Maga country punches me right in the face.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I've punster ass back.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
I noticed the rope around my neck and I started screaming.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
People that make false claims to police, much less to
this extent usually land behind bars. If they're regular mortals
like all of us. If your Hollywood star, maybe you
get different treatment. Jesse Smollette, superstar on the cast of Empire,
to Ellenclaurencrimeline dot com, investigative reporter where we have all
(29:46):
breaking crime and justice news. Ellen, what can you tell
me about these two guys. Everyone refers to them as Nigerian.
They're American. That's right, Nancy.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
They were bored and raised in Chicago. The reason I
believe that people are calling them that you're this because they,
for reasons that have not been explained and I do
not understand, apparently flew to Nigeria the day after the
attack and came back to Chicago last week where they
were met with investigators at the airport. That has not
been explained why that happened or if it had anything
(30:17):
to do at all with the alleged assaults. And I
also wanted to point something else out since we're talking
about the.
Speaker 6 (30:26):
Rope and the phone.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
A lot of the things that have come up in
recent days really don't look look good like they look
very suspicious, and things are starting to really maybe fall
apart here in this story. But a couple of things
I think are not suspicious that happened here. I don't
think it's suspicious that he did not want to hand
over his entire phone immediately. He's a public figure, he's
(30:51):
a celebrity.
Speaker 9 (30:52):
You who had allen received.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Before allan, have you ever been attacked at two am,
had a rope tied around your neck and bleach port on?
Because if you have, I'd like to have you know
about that, okay, because if that happens to you and
your life is in danger, and cops say we need
your phone, you go here whatever I mean, when the
cop pulls me over, which has happened, I like say,
(31:15):
whatever here, take it all, okay, just please leave my
children behind whatever. I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay.
Nobody should be above the law. And if they want
your phone, give your phone. But you know what, that's
you and this is me, so go ahead with your analysis, okay.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
But what I wanted to also say is that I
believe he did agree a hand over the full on
record about the rope. What we heard in the in
the beginning of this narrative was that he kept the
rope around his neck because he didn't want to sort
of disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers
to see what had been done. That was the explanation
(31:59):
for the rope of you left.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
You know what, I hear you, And he could have
claimed that he did not want his DNA his I
don't think you get prints off rope, but any of
his fibers or DNA on the rope or to ruin
any evidence on the rope, So I can understand that.
Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,
(32:25):
but that they were heavily redacted crime stories with Nancy
Grace X his on fire one user says, yikes, someone
giving Jesse Smilette a platform after all the let me
(32:47):
just say crap he pulled is a little scary. Another says,
I thought he was in jail, Well, you're right, that's
where he should be. Another says on X, why is
Jesse Smilllette not in jail. Another I say, Jesse Smollette
still trying to reinvent himself, like we forgot he staged
(33:07):
a fake hate crime to become famous. Another says this
is bleak. Another says the return of Juicy Smollett. Is
he going to convince us he's a quote tough guy?
Jesse Smollette getting rewarded Special Forces The World's Toughest Test.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Nancy Smollette became the fourth celebrity to drop out of
season four of Special Forces World's Toughest Test. When his
co stars realized that Smollette had developed a nasty cough,
his co stars encouraged him to go to the medic
Special Forces doctor Andy Brown, the chief medical officer, listened
to Jesse's lungs and declared he had inflammation throughout his
(33:55):
chest and Jesse had to admit it hurt every time
he coughed. Doctor Andy determined that Smolette had developed an
allergy to something in the dust, medically withdrawing Smolett from
the show. In his confessional, Smollette said, quote, there have
been too many opportunities in my life to quit on
things on myself, and I don't quit easily.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Everybody joining in on X is right. Anither gets real
and says Jesse Smolette is such a gross and unnecessary
casting choice. Why is everyone up in arms? This is why?
According to TMZ our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records
were handed over and the cops rejected them. The cops
(34:39):
rejected them, Darryl Coen, are you sitting down? The cops
rejected them, saying that they were so heavily redacted that
they were basically of no use. What about handing over
your phone records to cop if and you redact them?
Speaker 7 (34:57):
Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have
a victim of a crime, First of all, I want
to go back to the to the news. If I've
got a noose around my neck, oh my god, I'm
going to rip that off as quickly as I possibly can,
because I am freaked out. This guy was not hurt.
This guy was not attacked. He is looking for publicity.
(35:18):
He may have won an Emmy for Empire, but the
news outlets in Chicago are going to win a news
Emmy for their coverage of this guy who doesn't recognize
the truth from a lie. He is scripted, and he's
gotten himself into a problem. He's a walking living soap opera.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
The whole reason they got interested in the phone records
to start with is that Smollette said to Comps he
was on the phone with his manager at the time
of the attack, and that the manager says he heard
the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown, and they want
to authenticate that that call was in fact made. They
(35:58):
as slalent for the records about two weeks before they
got a PDF file. Now, police also say their cameras
everywhere in the area, but there is a sixty second
gap in the video where you don't see the Empire Star,
so there's no video of the actual attack. I've looked
at shots of the video and you see two persons
(36:19):
of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is what is
telling to me. Dr Bethany Marshall. These two guys that
everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very clear on that.
Who take off to Nigeria the day after the attack.
They work out in his building. At least one of
them does in the gym in Spolett's building, his apartment building.
(36:42):
One of them has been an extra on the set.
They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders. I've seen
their photos and I never see them wearing a shirt.
I mean not judging, but they are totally buff. So
you can see they work out all the time. They
take off for Nigeria. The day after the attack, they
come back, the buy the cops. They are questioned, they
(37:03):
are released Dtor Bethany no charges, and after meeting with them,
cops say they want to reinterview Jesse Smollett. What does
that say to you, doctor Bethany.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now
thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid
for the attack, right, And some people do not think
ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into
a crime. So they thought, I may have fought, no
big deal. We'll rough them up, we'll put a rope
around his neck, we'll take vacation, we'll come back. This
(37:35):
will have all blown over. But you know what, they
talk to the police, and as I was saying about malingering,
the whole story does not shake out. The timeline is
not consistent, and so the police are going to look
to Jesse. And I would wonder what is Jesse's reward
in all of this When people malinger symptoms. You know,
I was roughed up, I was a victim. They do
(37:57):
it for a reward. Is he trying to up his
Twitter following? Is he negotiating a contract right now and
he wants to prove to the EP of the show
that he is the center of a national news situation.
Is he wanting to take somebody else's role in empire?
(38:19):
You know, I think that there's a reward there somewhere,
And if you follow that trail, the whole thing begins.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Well, I've been looking in researching and following and asking questions.
According to CBS Chicago, who is there on the scene,
Cotts want to speak to Smollette again based on quote
new evidence they learn from the two friends the two
guys now, According to CBS, two sources told them that
(38:47):
Smolette pay the two guys thirty five hundred dollars to
stage the attack. This is CBS This Morning Anchor John Dickerson.
Take a listen to what they see on the video.
Speaker 13 (38:58):
Please are looking for two potential persons of interest in
a possible hate crime against actor Jesse Smollett. Police say
a surveillance camera took these images of the two men
on the night Smollette says he was beaten. The star
of the TV drama Empire said his masked at attackers
yelled racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is tracking the investigation.
Speaker 14 (39:21):
The investigators are hoping the FBI can enhance those images
to provide some distinguishing details. Now the men are not
considered suspects, but the police do want to know who
they are and what they were doing when Smollett says
he was attacked.
Speaker 15 (39:36):
Sources tell CBS News the two figures seen in these
dark surveillance images were also spotted sitting on a bench
when Jesse Smolette walked past them across the street. They
then appear to get up and follow him, although the
three of them are never seen on camera together. About
a minute later, investigators say another security camera captured Smolette
(39:57):
returning to his apartment with a news tied around his neck.
The rope was untied but still on his neck when
police arrived, forty five minutes after he says he was attacked.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
The truth about Jesse Smollette.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
I think I already know the.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Truth joining the infamous race hoaxer, stirring up racial animosity
like nobody else. Jesse Smlette set to star in a
reality show along with the Real Housewives of New Jersey
cast member Teresa Judice, whose own brush with the law
(40:33):
involved an eleven month prison sentence for fraud. Ooh, she's
going to compete along with her daughter Jia.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Okay, I guess some Smollett's in good company. Other contestants
for season four include Kristin Cavalieri's ex boyfriend Mark Estes.
I may not know who all these contestants are, but
I know who Jesse's Melennias. As fans respond, quote, I
thought he was in jail. Well he should be. We
(41:07):
wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Oh My Stars, does it
never end with this poser? This felon? Oh My Stars.
Jesse Smollett, remember him, the race hoaxer who claimed he
(00:27):
was attacked because he is black and gay and when
police arrived at his luxury apartment, he still had a
rope around his neck. It was all a lie. Oh
My Stars, He's getting rewarded. Special Forces the World's Toughest
Test unveils its celebrity contestants competing in the fourth season
(00:53):
of the Quasie military training reality show Oh My Stars,
with Smolette wisecracking on Instagram. It was at this moment
I said I should have just done the masked singer Nancy.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Jesse's Molett became the fourth celebrity to drop out of
season four of Special Forces World's Toughest Test. The stars
were dropped into a simulated war zone for a challenge
and charged with finding and extracting fallen comrades. When the
team reported back to base camp, Jesse's Malette suffered a
painful cough and had to be medically discharged.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Well, okay, Iike say quite often I've seen it all,
but now I really have seen it all. I'mancy Grace,
this is crime Stories. I want to thank you for
being with us. The disgraced race hoaxer swore he was
attacked by two MAGA supporters who actually turned out to
(01:57):
be his personal trainer, the Osendaro brothers. They swear under
oath he hired them to pour bleach on him and
put a noose around his neck to bolster his celebrity
profile and get a raise. Remember, he was a star
of the hit series Empire that came crashing down after
(02:21):
he pulled off this stunt. Let me jog your recollection.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Listen to this. You know it's two o'clock in the morning.
You're going to subway. Subsperia is open twenty four hours.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Like people kill you when they say things like that,
because it's like the subway is open twenty four hours
for a reason, so that when you're hungry at night
and you ain't got no food, you go to subway
the camera and be facing north.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
How is that my issue? It feels like if I
had said it was a Muslim or a Mexican.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Or someone black, I feel like the Dowters would have
supported me a lot, much, a lot more. And that
says a lot about the place that we are in
our country right now, the fact.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
That we have these fear mongols, these people that.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Are trying to separate us, and.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
It's just not okay. It's just not okay.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
And for all of the people, the next time that
you see someone report something, maybe well after the fact
that it happened, and you say to them, well, why
are you waiting until now? Just remember that mine was
reported right away and look what has happened.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
You are hearing TV star Jesse Smillette talking to superstar
Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who
have doubted his story that he was attacked by I
believe it started as two white males. It changed at
some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is how
(04:02):
the story started. That also has changed to am in
the morning, coming out of a subway sandwich shop. According
to Jesse Similette, everyone knows him big star on Empire.
He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put
a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called
(04:23):
his manager and not nine one one. When he walked
back home. He then called nine one one. When police arrived,
they found him sitting there and roughed up and the
rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If
this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not
(04:45):
the truth. When he talks about his detractors dividing people,
is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this
is not about politics. I think all editions lie, every
single one of them. This is about a potential hoax
(05:07):
on police or a horrible hate crime. With me an
all star panel forensics expert, and boy do we need
her now, Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction, renowned
criminal attorney, DARRYLD Cohen, former prosecutor, joining me from Atlanta,
join me, joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall,
(05:30):
and joining me right now, crime online dot COM's Ellenclaurin
E K. Let's just start at the beginning. Now, Typically,
when I'm hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything,
usually the wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it,
and go back to sleep. All right. Usually I don't
feel like getting up and even going to the fridge
(05:50):
because I'm exhausted. But let's just start with a two
am subway sandwich call.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Go well, It does appear that johnsy Small at High
arrived to the airport in Chicago late. So I don't
think this was a matter of him waking up in
the middle of that and going out to the spreading
cold in the subway. It was a very cold day though,
and he's he tells police that he's on his way
home with his subway sandwich.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
W whit whit right, whit whit? Wait? This is in Chicago, correct,
that's right? Yea, So how cold is it it?
Speaker 5 (06:24):
We were pretty sure it was below freedom temperatures. This
this was during a very very very cold spell in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I don't know the exact doctor Bethney. He must have
been very hungry, very hungry.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in
the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor,
So if it's twenty degrees out regular temperature, the wind
starts blowing forty fifty degree below wind chill. I did
my undergraduate work there. Nobody goes out at two.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing
his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he
thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.
But that's why I always like to start, Darryl, not
with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is
he wakes up, according to his story, at two am,
(07:18):
and instead of getting left over piece out of the
fridge or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter
may be, he goes out in forty below to get
a Subway sandwich. See I start right there, That's where
I start the story. And I think that's crazy. I'm
not saying it didn't happen. I just think that's Craig
(07:38):
cray Well.
Speaker 7 (07:39):
I'm wondering if Subway was actually open at two in
the morning.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yep, they're twenty four hour. Yeah. I love Subway. Although
I did have a mini boycott for a week after
Jared was, you know, busted on child porn. I guess
it was their spokesperson. But long story short, Darryl Cohen,
I mean, a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely
nothing to do with it.
Speaker 7 (08:04):
I don't think it has anything to do with it.
I think what has to do with it is did
it or did it not happen? And as far as
I can see, from all the evidence that's been presented
to me. This guy is looking for more publicity for
whatever the reason, and he is about to get it.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Well, he's getting it all right, Okay, e K. Let's
just go with the premise that it's true because the official,
the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being
treated as a victim because he is a victim book
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. As you will recall, soon
(08:46):
after Smilette takes to the airwaves describing how he was
the victim of a hate crime, Chicago PD released surveillance
images of the perpetrators and the two as also being black.
They are Nigerian American brothers. So we see the attackers
(09:10):
performing a quote hate crime on Smolette, who is black,
and the purpse are black. Okay, just let that soak
in for a moment. To claim a hate crime and
wrap a rope around your neck as if you were
threatened with lynching, nothing could be more incendiary in our
(09:36):
American consciousness. A horrible, horrible era that our country endured,
all brought to the forefront by Smolette's hoax. Then evidence
came out Smolet orchestrated his own attack and paid the
(09:58):
brothers nearly four thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Idiot wrote a check.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, idiot wrote a check for his hate crime attack.
What more do we know?
Speaker 8 (10:12):
When did you because as you said, it was an
accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you
make that information available to the police.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
We gave, we had to give the phone records, which
they didn't originally ask for my phone records.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
They asked for my phone.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
They wanted me to give my phone to the tech
for three to four hours.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Why Because I have private pictures and videos and numbers,
my partner's number, my family's number, my castmate's number, my
friend's numbers, my private emails, my private songs, my private
voice memos.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I don't know what that's going to be to hand
over my phone for.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been
put out there.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You are hearing our friend superstar Robin Robert said ABC's GMA,
She's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smolette, the
Empire star Everybody Loves Empire, the Empire star who claims
that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he
decided he was hungry, goes out to subway sandwich, gets
(11:30):
a sandwich and is attacked by two guys that throw
acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around
his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He
manages to get home and call police. He says, he
calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that
is why they wanted the phone, to confirm that he
(11:53):
called his manager and not nine to one one. They
are being clear why they want the phone, But they
want the phone. Karen Smith, journing me forensics expert out
of Florida. Why do they want Jesse Smollett's phone.
Speaker 9 (12:06):
Listen, when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators,
the best way now in the world of social media
and texting is to get the phone of the victim.
You can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook
and Twitter and all those things, and text messages especially
Listen if nothing happened. And I understand, you know the
(12:26):
privacy thing, and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever
that he want released. But the police are They're not
going to go into that. That's not their interest. Their
interest is looking at communications between Jesse Smollett and these
other alleged perpetrators, if there was any, if there was any,
the phone call that he made to his manager, what
(12:47):
time did he make it, where did he make it from?
All of those questions have to be answered, and they
have to have the device. They can't just take somebody's
word for it. That's not how life works anymore.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta, criminal to defense attorney, former prosecutor,
felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted. I
just missed him, Darryl. At the time when we were
when I first started prosecuting, we did not have DNA,
we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it
old school, okay, and we did it now with the
(13:19):
advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is
saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is
a problem to me. I don't have a problem with
anything else he's saying. But when he says find you
know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry
at two am or goes out in sub zero that
(13:41):
below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't
hand your phone over to cops. That is a big
red flag to hay with your private communications. If you
have had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a
rope tied around your neck out on the street, you're
handing your phone over because you want those people caught, right,
(14:05):
I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing, Darryl.
Speaker 7 (14:08):
Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with finding
out why he would call his manager. So the last
time I checked, was not a law enforcement person, was
not a bodyguard. Why would you not call the police
any of us. Any of us, whether we're an actor,
whether we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief, whatever we
may be, we are going to call the police if
(14:30):
something bad happens. So yeah, I've got a real problem
with him not turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse,
but he thinks he's Jesse James. He is having you
work now, he's having a real problem.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
You probably see that all night, law Thank you having
it coming up with that. He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay,
you know what, I'm going to just pass over that one.
You know, it's a big deal to me, Darryl, And
I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but in
my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor because
(15:04):
you could get a jury eating out of your hand.
You're always prepared. You need the law, you need the facts.
You knew it all when you went in front of
a jury. And in this case, when you have a
victim that does not cooperate with police, that is a problem.
I don't care who he is. I don't care who
he sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care.
(15:28):
But if you don't cooperate with police, then that is
a problem with me. What's your problem?
Speaker 7 (15:36):
It's a problem with me as well. I've got another
problem with that. How in the world in the middle
of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees.
It's about the same frozen do you get mugged by
two people who know you're obviously black but you're homosexual?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Really and you well because he's a famous place on
this TV star. So here's the thing, this is another
wrinkle in this. To Ellenklauren Crime online dot Com, hold on,
I'm going to write this down. Here's the thing. So,
if they were targeting Jesse Smollette, Okay, hold on, if
(16:15):
they were targeting him and this was a hate crime.
How did they know to be outside the subway at
two am with bleach and rope? Or are they just
hanging around to get a sandwich and they happen to
have bleach and rope with them? If they were targeting
(16:35):
Jesse Smolette, e kay, were they casing out his apartment?
Why were they there at two am? And I haven't
even touched on these two guys, these two Nigerian guys
that work out in his apartment building gym that know him,
(16:56):
that have been extras on the set of Empire, or
at least one of them has that have been questioned
and released and allegedly are now saying they were paid
to do the attack. But first of all, I'm going
to get to the theory, Ellen to Laurence. So the
perps were what waiting outside the subway sandwich shop for him?
(17:18):
I mean, what's the theory here? How did they know
he was going to be getting a sandwich at two am?
If he was the one targeted for a hate crime.
Speaker 9 (17:27):
Well, Nancy, they.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
May have not known that he was going to get
a sandwich at two am, But Jesse has an un
Instagram account.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
And he's a very active social media user.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
And we learned over the weekend that he had been
in New York during the previous days and he was
on He had slowed back to Chicago that night, but
his flight was the lead and he came in much
later than expected, and he posted a couple of Instagram
stories on his Instagram account talking about how.
Speaker 9 (17:58):
His flight was the leaded.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Someone who had to have had a little bit of
information about what was going on with him that day.
If they wanted to track his movements, they could to
a certain degree through his social media activity.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Jesse Smilett, the infamous race hoaxer, the former star of Empire.
He brought that Crashing Down is going to star on
Special Forces World's Toughest Test.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
The teams had to navigate tough terrain, obstacles and fake
explosions for the reality series in the hot Moroccan desert. Reportedly,
Jesse was determined to power through the difficult reality competition,
but in addition to nearly throwing up mid exercise, he
developed a nasty cough that became worse, ultimately leading to
(18:46):
him being declared medically ineligible.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Guys, what more do we know?
Speaker 4 (18:51):
I think that what people need to hear is just
the truth. It's just the truth, because everybody has their
own idea. Some are healing and some are hurtful. But
I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community,
(19:12):
young black children, to know how strong that they are,
to know the power that they hold in their little pinky.
Speaker 10 (19:21):
It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse
Smolett bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the
raw motions.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram
and dms and things like that.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
It's like, but you know, I'm a public figure.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
I'm very outspoken. Sometimes maybe too outspoken, but it's who
I am, you know, So I get the idea of
pissing people off, that you're gonna rub people.
Speaker 10 (20:00):
In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a
letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago with
threatening language, at least with powdery substance likely Taylanol, do
you think there's a link between the letter and the attack?
And you did mention it to the police right away out.
Speaker 11 (20:18):
Of the letter, absolutely, just because on the letter it
had a stick figure hanging from a tree with a
gun pointing towards it, with the words that said small
at Jesse, you will die black.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
There was no address, but the return address.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
It in big red, you know, like caps, maga Did
I make that up too?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
You are hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking
with Empire star Jesse Smillett, And right now we know
that the police investigation is going on. Police chief has
confirmed the two guys that allegedly are identified in the
video that police believe committed the act the attack on
Jesse Smollett has been apprehended, questioned, and released with no charges.
(21:06):
What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters
that he claims he got leading up to this attack?
Threatening letters?
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Yes, one, exactly one week before the night of the
alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where
he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it contained
direct death threats, homophobic.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
And racist language.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
There's two things about the letter that are coming up
more recently in the discussion around this case. One of
those is that some unidentified forces who have access to
the set and may even work with Jesse, have told
CBS News that he was unhappy about the response to
the letter and the threat that he got, that he
(21:55):
felt that there wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and
that he was angry, and that they're questioning did he
set up this orchestrate this purported hate crime as retaliation
for that. The other thing that we're learning, and again
these are not official law enforcement statements. These are unidentified sources.
(22:16):
You are talking to new Thoughtless. But we're learning that
the letter was made out of and you can see
it in the photos.
Speaker 9 (22:22):
The letter was written sort of.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
Like a ransom type of letter with cutout letters from
a magazine. And we're hearing that when investigators went and
raided the apartment of these two brothers who have been
identified as possibly involved in this attack, they took away
a magazine.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Wait a minute, Wait a minute, dodgor Bethany Marshall. Are
these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha
Christi and Erquille Poirot, like in the movies where you
cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them
on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.
(23:01):
And also we are learning for sure that in a
follow up visit by investigators, Malette says the attackers mentioned
something about this is Maga country, which relates back to
the Trump campaign. So the whole situation is fluid, but
I can tell you this. Remember the runaway Bride when
(23:22):
she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut grass
and do community service out in the public. I forgot
how long other people have done jail time, hard jail
time for bringing police in on a hoax of an investigation,
because who knows what crimes were really happening at the
time of a hoax, and instead of dealing with the
(23:45):
real crime, cops are out spending thousands and thousands of
dollars and man hours trying to solve a fake call.
And this one, if it is fake, is a whopper.
Now what do you make Dr bethany More? Marshall the studio,
the Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've been told,
(24:06):
but according to sources, he was unhappy with the reaction
to the letters. Does that mean what they didn't get
enough attention? What does that mean to you, doctor bethany.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
Well, you were mentioning the runaway Bride and these crimes
where we find out it's a hoax in the end.
And I don't know if this was a hoax or not.
But in forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained
to do with crime victims is to find out if
they're doing something called malingering. MA Lingering is when you
(24:35):
make up medical symptoms or you exaggerate medical symptoms for
some external reward. It's that simple. Now, in twenty percent
of criminal cases, lingering is involved in some way, twenty
percent of PI cases, as you can imagine MA lingering,
thirty percent of disability cases. The sicker I am, the
(24:57):
more I'm going to get some kind of reward or attention,
or I'm going to get out of some consequence, like
You're not going to send me to jail, I'm not
going to have to go to the military. So what's
so interesting to me about this story is the exaggerate
two aspects, the exaggerated nature of his symptoms. He's sitting
(25:18):
on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the rope around
his neck. Wouldn't you pull a rope off? No, he's
sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that he's
been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ. Anything
that could paint him in a sympathetic light he keeps
putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy nature
(25:39):
of the timeline. When somebody lingers, they usually obstruct the
investigation process. They do not want the investigators to know
clearly what happens. So if I have a patient and
my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall, I was,
I don't know. My boss keeps.
Speaker 9 (25:55):
Yelling at me.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
I want to bring a lawsuit. You know, I say, well,
what did your boss say? Well, I don't know. I
just can't remember. So lingering is associated with very fuzzy
dcare Now.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Is it true? Ek ellencalorin Crime online dot Com investigative
reporter that Smold had been in New York to audition
for a role in the play that is very oddly
similar to his alleged attack. What do we know about
the play for which he was auditioning.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
He was at a reading.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
Actually it was an audition.
Speaker 9 (26:29):
I believe he's already.
Speaker 5 (26:31):
Part of the cast. But that's what he was doing
in New York. He was flying back to he was
flying back to Chicago from New York, and he was
in New York because he was doing a reading of
the script of this play. And the character in the
play is a person of color, it's a gay, it's
a celebrity, a sports star in the cave in the
case of the fictional character. But he is someone who
(26:53):
the character is someone who has been the victim of
hate crimes that according to the reports that we're reading
that have some similarities in the crime that was allegedly
committed against him, just that within hours of him arriving.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Back to Chicago for the same wording, the same slurs,
awful slurs. If this is true, it is a hate crime.
I'm learning also Daryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former
prosecutor in felony court that he Smolette did not call police.
It was a close associate about forty minutes after the attack,
(27:30):
according to the New York Times, and I think that
was his manager. He did not call police. And when
Cox got to his place, he still was wearing the
rope around his neck.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Helped me, well, I can help you, Nancy, because it
sounds to me like a setup. Did you also pay
attention to his voice. This is a guy that's reading
a script. This is not someone who's upset. This is
not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not
going to be and gentle. Add that to the cocktail.
(28:03):
Add the fact that he's not giving his phone to
the police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all
he can do is say, oh my gosh, I was
attacked and this is terrible. But he has a noose
around his neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a
guy who was Look many times, Nancy, people equate stars
(28:27):
on television or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry,
not the same. Some are, some are not. This guy
is reading a script. He saw a way to get even.
Perhaps he saw a way to make more money. Perhaps,
But what he didn't see is that he's not as
bright as he believes himself to be. So he's not shakesap.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Take a listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar brothers
Ola and abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told
detectives their.
Speaker 12 (28:57):
Role in the reported January twenty ninth to ten on
actor Jesse Smollette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say
Smolett pay the brothers thousands to carry out a staged attack.
Somolette had this to say about the scuffle with his attackers.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
He said, this.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Maga country punches me right in the face.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I've punster ass back.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
I noticed the rope around my neck and I started screaming.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
People that make false claims to police, much less to
this extent usually land behind bars. If they're regular mortals
like all of us. If your Hollywood star, maybe you
get different treatment. Jesse Smollette, superstar on the cast of Empire,
to Ellenclaurencrimeline dot com, investigative reporter where we have all
(29:46):
breaking crime and justice news. Ellen, what can you tell
me about these two guys. Everyone refers to them as Nigerian.
They're American. That's right, Nancy.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
They were bored and raised in Chicago. The reason I
believe that people are calling them that you're this because they,
for reasons that have not been explained and I do
not understand, apparently flew to Nigeria the day after the
attack and came back to Chicago last week where they
were met with investigators at the airport. That has not
been explained why that happened or if it had anything
(30:17):
to do at all with the alleged assaults. And I
also wanted to point something else out since we're talking
about the.
Speaker 6 (30:26):
Rope and the phone.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
A lot of the things that have come up in
recent days really don't look look good like they look
very suspicious, and things are starting to really maybe fall
apart here in this story. But a couple of things
I think are not suspicious that happened here. I don't
think it's suspicious that he did not want to hand
over his entire phone immediately. He's a public figure, he's
(30:51):
a celebrity.
Speaker 9 (30:52):
You who had allen received.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Before allan, have you ever been attacked at two am,
had a rope tied around your neck and bleach port on?
Because if you have, I'd like to have you know
about that, okay, because if that happens to you and
your life is in danger, and cops say we need
your phone, you go here whatever I mean, when the
cop pulls me over, which has happened, I like say,
(31:15):
whatever here, take it all, okay, just please leave my
children behind whatever. I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay.
Nobody should be above the law. And if they want
your phone, give your phone. But you know what, that's
you and this is me, so go ahead with your analysis, okay.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
But what I wanted to also say is that I
believe he did agree a hand over the full on
record about the rope. What we heard in the in
the beginning of this narrative was that he kept the
rope around his neck because he didn't want to sort
of disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers
to see what had been done. That was the explanation
(31:59):
for the rope of you left.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
You know what, I hear you, And he could have
claimed that he did not want his DNA his I
don't think you get prints off rope, but any of
his fibers or DNA on the rope or to ruin
any evidence on the rope, So I can understand that.
Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,
(32:25):
but that they were heavily redacted crime stories with Nancy
Grace X his on fire one user says, yikes, someone
giving Jesse Smilette a platform after all the let me
(32:47):
just say crap he pulled is a little scary. Another says,
I thought he was in jail, Well, you're right, that's
where he should be. Another says on X, why is
Jesse Smilllette not in jail. Another I say, Jesse Smollette
still trying to reinvent himself, like we forgot he staged
(33:07):
a fake hate crime to become famous. Another says this
is bleak. Another says the return of Juicy Smollett. Is
he going to convince us he's a quote tough guy?
Jesse Smollette getting rewarded Special Forces The World's Toughest Test.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Nancy Smollette became the fourth celebrity to drop out of
season four of Special Forces World's Toughest Test. When his
co stars realized that Smollette had developed a nasty cough,
his co stars encouraged him to go to the medic
Special Forces doctor Andy Brown, the chief medical officer, listened
to Jesse's lungs and declared he had inflammation throughout his
(33:55):
chest and Jesse had to admit it hurt every time
he coughed. Doctor Andy determined that Smolette had developed an
allergy to something in the dust, medically withdrawing Smolett from
the show. In his confessional, Smollette said, quote, there have
been too many opportunities in my life to quit on
things on myself, and I don't quit easily.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Everybody joining in on X is right. Anither gets real
and says Jesse Smolette is such a gross and unnecessary
casting choice. Why is everyone up in arms? This is why?
According to TMZ our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records
were handed over and the cops rejected them. The cops
(34:39):
rejected them, Darryl Coen, are you sitting down? The cops
rejected them, saying that they were so heavily redacted that
they were basically of no use. What about handing over
your phone records to cop if and you redact them?
Speaker 7 (34:57):
Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have
a victim of a crime, First of all, I want
to go back to the to the news. If I've
got a noose around my neck, oh my god, I'm
going to rip that off as quickly as I possibly can,
because I am freaked out. This guy was not hurt.
This guy was not attacked. He is looking for publicity.
(35:18):
He may have won an Emmy for Empire, but the
news outlets in Chicago are going to win a news
Emmy for their coverage of this guy who doesn't recognize
the truth from a lie. He is scripted, and he's
gotten himself into a problem. He's a walking living soap opera.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
The whole reason they got interested in the phone records
to start with is that Smollette said to Comps he
was on the phone with his manager at the time
of the attack, and that the manager says he heard
the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown, and they want
to authenticate that that call was in fact made. They
(35:58):
as slalent for the records about two weeks before they
got a PDF file. Now, police also say their cameras
everywhere in the area, but there is a sixty second
gap in the video where you don't see the Empire Star,
so there's no video of the actual attack. I've looked
at shots of the video and you see two persons
(36:19):
of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is what is
telling to me. Dr Bethany Marshall. These two guys that
everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very clear on that.
Who take off to Nigeria the day after the attack.
They work out in his building. At least one of
them does in the gym in Spolett's building, his apartment building.
(36:42):
One of them has been an extra on the set.
They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders. I've seen
their photos and I never see them wearing a shirt.
I mean not judging, but they are totally buff. So
you can see they work out all the time. They
take off for Nigeria. The day after the attack, they
come back, the buy the cops. They are questioned, they
(37:03):
are released Dtor Bethany no charges, and after meeting with them,
cops say they want to reinterview Jesse Smollett. What does
that say to you, doctor Bethany.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now
thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid
for the attack, right, And some people do not think
ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into
a crime. So they thought, I may have fought, no
big deal. We'll rough them up, we'll put a rope
around his neck, we'll take vacation, we'll come back. This
(37:35):
will have all blown over. But you know what, they
talk to the police, and as I was saying about malingering,
the whole story does not shake out. The timeline is
not consistent, and so the police are going to look
to Jesse. And I would wonder what is Jesse's reward
in all of this When people malinger symptoms. You know,
I was roughed up, I was a victim. They do
(37:57):
it for a reward. Is he trying to up his
Twitter following? Is he negotiating a contract right now and
he wants to prove to the EP of the show
that he is the center of a national news situation.
Is he wanting to take somebody else's role in empire?
(38:19):
You know, I think that there's a reward there somewhere,
And if you follow that trail, the whole thing begins.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Well, I've been looking in researching and following and asking questions.
According to CBS Chicago, who is there on the scene,
Cotts want to speak to Smollette again based on quote
new evidence they learn from the two friends the two
guys now, According to CBS, two sources told them that
(38:47):
Smolette pay the two guys thirty five hundred dollars to
stage the attack. This is CBS This Morning Anchor John Dickerson.
Take a listen to what they see on the video.
Speaker 13 (38:58):
Please are looking for two potential persons of interest in
a possible hate crime against actor Jesse Smollett. Police say
a surveillance camera took these images of the two men
on the night Smollette says he was beaten. The star
of the TV drama Empire said his masked at attackers
yelled racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is tracking the investigation.
Speaker 14 (39:21):
The investigators are hoping the FBI can enhance those images
to provide some distinguishing details. Now the men are not
considered suspects, but the police do want to know who
they are and what they were doing when Smollett says
he was attacked.
Speaker 15 (39:36):
Sources tell CBS News the two figures seen in these
dark surveillance images were also spotted sitting on a bench
when Jesse Smolette walked past them across the street. They
then appear to get up and follow him, although the
three of them are never seen on camera together. About
a minute later, investigators say another security camera captured Smolette
(39:57):
returning to his apartment with a news tied around his neck.
The rope was untied but still on his neck when
police arrived, forty five minutes after he says he was attacked.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
The truth about Jesse Smollette.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
I think I already know the.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Truth joining the infamous race hoaxer, stirring up racial animosity
like nobody else. Jesse Smlette set to star in a
reality show along with the Real Housewives of New Jersey
cast member Teresa Judice, whose own brush with the law
(40:33):
involved an eleven month prison sentence for fraud. Ooh, she's
going to compete along with her daughter Jia.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Okay, I guess some Smollett's in good company. Other contestants
for season four include Kristin Cavalieri's ex boyfriend Mark Estes.
I may not know who all these contestants are, but
I know who Jesse's Melennias. As fans respond, quote, I
thought he was in jail. Well he should be. We
(41:07):
wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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