January 19, 2026 • 49 mins
Keith Zlomsowitch, a former boyfriend of Nicole Brown Simpson, has written a new book titled "STALKED: 'It could have been me."
Zlomsowitch's book is his firsthand account of his relationship with O.J. Simpson's ex-wife, Simpson's stalking, the murders of Brown and Ron Goldman, and the trial.
Keith Zlomsowitch, a restaurateur dated Nicole Brown Simpson for about a month, shortly after she separated from O.J. Simpson. Their relationship was characterized by intense stalking from O.J. Simpson.
Zlomsowitch told a grand jury that Simpson stalked and spied on them, including a time he watched them through a window while they were on the couch during sex.
In the new book, Zlomsowitch shares details never before released, and today he joins Nancy Grace.
The night of Nicole's murder, after daughter Sydney’s dance recital, Nicole, the children, and her family leave O.J. Simpson behind at the school for dinner with friends at Mezzaluna, an Italian restaurant in Brentwood.
When Nicole's mother accidentally leaves her glasses behind, friend Ron Goldman, who works at the restaurant, volunteers to drop them off at Nicole's house. Goldman leaves Mezzaluna at 9:45 p.m.
Later that night, a neighbor sees Nicole's dog, a white Akita named Kato, wandering the neighborhood alone, barking. The neighbor assumes Kato got out of the yard, but the dog seems agitated, and on closer inspection, they notice he has bloody paws.
The neighbor follows Kato to investigate, discovering Nicole and Ron’s bodies at 12:10 a.m.
Detectives Mark Furhman and Philip Vannatter go to Simpson's home, which is nearby, and notify him of his wife's death. Furhman sees what appears to be bloodstains on Simpson's Ford Bronco decides to jump the fence to gain access to Simpson's property.
Vannatter declares Simpson’s home to be a crime scene and goes to secure a search warrant for the house around 7 a.m.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Chris Melcher - Celebrity Lawyer and Partner at Walzer Melcher & Yoda
- Dr. Cheryl Arutt - Licensed Clinical and Forensic Psychologist specializing in Trauma Recovery, PTSD and EMDR, website: askdrcheryl.com; IG: @askdrcheryl
- Jon Buehler - Former Detective for Modesto Police Department, California, detective in Scott Peterson Investigation
- Shannon Henry - President & Founder of SASS Go (Surviving Assault Standing Strong: a nonprofit on a mission to eradicate abuse, trafficking and violence against women and girls globally) Case Consultant, and Adjunct Professor at the University of South Carolina in the Department of Education; @sassgoglobal on FB, Instagram, X, and TikTok
- Alexis Tereszcuk - "Crime Stories" Investigative Reporter; X @swimmie2009
- Dave Mack - 'Crime Stories' Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
He says double killer OJ Simpson spied on him during
his sofa sex session with O. J. Simpson's wife, Nicole Brown. Well,
that's just the tip of the iceberg. This guy has
a brand new book, and he's right when he says
that could have been me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I mean, is he Grace? This is Crime Stories.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I want to thank you for being with us here.
Can you send some one to my house or my
ex husband or my husband?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
He broke into my house and he's ranting and raving.
Now he's just walked out the front yard and.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Nobody's crazy.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
You know what always strikes me about that portion of
one of Nicole Brown's many, many nine one one calls
is that she was just like, yeah, he's breaking into
my house again. By this time, it had happened so
many times, and she had been beaten so many times.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
That photo that was put up in the courtroom during
Simpson's murder.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Trial of her with her face just totally beaten and bruised.
I mean, how that jury, Oh gosh, that's one of them.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Look at her arm for Pete's sake. Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It happened over and over and over, joining me right now.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Two incredible guests.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
First, I want to introduce to you Keith Zulomsowitch. He
is Nicole Brown's former boyfriend, and he is the author
of a brand new book, Stalked, And I've got it
right now, but I really think we should give the
whole title it stalked. It could have been me, And
(01:51):
I think what you mean by that, Keith, is that
you could have been the one lying out in the
driveway that night with your head nearly severed off your body.
Nicole Brown's head was attached to her body by a
thin a thin bit of flesh in the back of
(02:17):
her neck. She had been almost totally decapitated. The killer
had that immense strength. I wonder what he would have
done with you if he had gotten a hold of you, Keith,
knowing that you had been dating Nicole, actually spying.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
On you through the window. Freak.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Freak is right, And you're absolutely right when you say that.
In real time, maybe it didn't cross my mind as much,
But after I saw what he was capable of in
the murders I've had to live with for thirty years,
I think that it could have.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Been merry shots Nicole in life. Some of the happiest
time of her life outside of being a mom, were
with Keith Zulamsowitch. It's not just what he's saying, it's
what other people said. Of course, their relationship was marred,
(03:16):
ruined by this.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
It's three o'clock in the morning and Keith and Nicole
made love on the couch, but they weren't alone. There
was somebody watching. There was someone watching through the window.
It was a defendant.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Nicole hires a babysitter to watch the children while she
and Keith go out to a comedy club. Arriving home,
the children are asleep. It's about three am when Keith
and Nicole become amorous on the couch. Unbeknownst to either
of them, OJ Simpson is hiding in the bushes outside
the house, stalking, watching the couple love on the couch.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Did you have any idea that OJ Simpson was staring?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
He's about three feet away from you.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It sounds like addy threesome watching you have sex with
Nicole Brown with his shoulder asleep upstairs. I mean, did
you have any idea the extent to which he was
stalking you and her?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
We knew about the stalking because it had happened several
times prior to this particular incident, but that evening we
were out several places before we went home, one of
which was Roxbury where Nicole saw Oj across the dance
floor and brought it to my attention immediately that he
was there, and we just sort of at that point
(04:45):
had had enough of his stalking and following us. So
she looked at me and she said, what do you
want to do. Let's just get out of here. So
we headed back to the house, not knowing he was
going to follow us. In hindsight, maybe should have had
an idea that that was going to happen. But you know,
we got home and we were in the house thinking
we were alone, and things happened. That was the first
(05:05):
time we made love, so it was a special It
was very special. Come to find out.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You know, I need a strength and I named one
really quickly.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Doctor Bethany Marshall is joining us renowned psychoanalyst.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Out of la this jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
You can see her now on Peacock and you can
find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall,
I'm just a trial lawyer, you're the shrink. But this,
there's got to be a name for this, for what
Simpson did before the double murders.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
Yes, well, obviously it's voyeurism, but Nancy, it is stalking,
like the title of Keith's book, and the psychology of
stalking is that the perpetrator, the stalker, lives in a
state of rejection all the time, even when that other person,
maybe in a wouldn't pick up a phone call or
wouldn't spend time with him, and everything got interpreted as rejections.
(06:06):
So he stalked her to punish her for rejecting him.
He also believed that she belonged to him like property.
So I imagine when he's standing outside the window watching them
have sex, take each other's clothes off, make out. I mean,
I'm imagining the whole thing, with his face pressed up
against the mirror. Nancy, he was probably enraged and even
(06:30):
at that point, possibly having homicidal fantasies. I'm not surprised
that Keith waited so long to come out with this
book because OJ Simpson is gone now. He can't do
anything from the grapes, so it's a safe time to
talk about it and It's a very important message this book.
I think it's so wonderful Keith that you wrote it
and that people can read it about it.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I forget what you just said, doctor Bethany, Because Simpson,
even during his marriage was women threw themselves at him.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
How can you say OJ Simpson was in his state
of rejection. The world loved him. He was an icon.
Don't you remember those I believe it was.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Was it Avas or hurt I think it was AVOs
rental cars where he would be running through the airport
and jumping over things, is very athletic, carrying like a
bag with him or something.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
He was a star.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
He was in movies, he was in commercials. Everybody loved him.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
What do you mean a state of rejection but no dancy.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
This is what we see Bucker's and I believe was
going on psychologically for Oj is that he probably had
sexual relationships with other women, responded to women, flirted with women.
But at the same time he was obsessed and preoccupied
with Nicole. He only wanted her. And so we see
(07:51):
with these guys often they're pathologically jealous. They feel betrayed
all the time, even if the girl, the woman goes
out having lunch with her friends or something like that.
He would feel betrayed and rejected and then to get
back at her, go have sex with other women. That's
a really common thing for sociopaths, and he seems to just.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Don't get it.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Let me go back to Keith Zlamzowitch, the author of
a brand new book Climbing the Charts on Amazon, stalked,
but I like the rest of the title because it
says so much more it could have been me. And
he's right because in a blind rage, Simpson not only
murdered decapitated his wife Nicole, but a completely innocent guy
(08:36):
that had returned a pair of glasses to her home
that night.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
You know, there he is Ron Goleman. And what a.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Horrific phone call had to be made to Golman's family
to tell them, just out of the blue, their boy
is dead, murdered.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
They probably first thought, oh, it must have been a
car crash.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
No, no, then they find out the awful truth.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Guys, the stalking just so bizarre.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But that night, the first time that Keith had sex
with Nicole Brown they had been dating a while. He
had no idea oj Simpson was peeking peeping tom through
the window just a few feet away, staring at them
the whole time. I'm really surprised he didn't break down
(09:28):
the window and come in and strangle you right then
and there. When did you find out he had been
spying on you that whole night?
Speaker 4 (09:38):
The very next day, OJ burst into us. We were
in the back bedroom of one of Nicole of Nicholl's house,
in one of the bedrooms, and he came bursting in
right on top of us and started declaring that he
had watched us the night before, and he wanted to
be left alone with Nicole. I wanted. I didn't want
to leave her alone. I was scared for her safety.
(09:59):
So I stood my ground, stood in between the two
of them, and refused to leave. He was getting angrier
and angrier, until finally Nicole realized the only way to
get him out of there was to have me wait
outside the bedroom door, so I did. She asked me
to stay close enough so I could hear if anything happened,
which I did, and then he continued to go after
(10:20):
her and read her the Riot Act.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
What was he saying to you or let me guess,
bitch or blah.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Blah, Oh, how filthy she was, how disgrace she is.
I watched you. I saw everything you did. You know
it was as bad. I couldn't hear every word he
was saying. But when she came out of the bedroom,
when they came out together after about ten minutes, and
he tried the old shake my hand thing, you know
(10:46):
that wasn't wasn't.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Oh okay, and he stretches out. He breaks in.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
He bursts into the bedroom when you were in a color,
still in there, I think you said, still in bed?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Me woke you up, and starts harassing Well what now?
Speaker 4 (11:03):
I was giving her a I was giving her a
back massage, non sexual, and he came in through the
back door, which also told us that he knew exactly
where we at. We were at in the house. He
didn't try to come through the front door, he didn't
come through the screen door in the back. He came
right through the bedroom French doors that we were in,
so he knew where we were at in the house,
(11:25):
and he came right through, stood right in my face
as I'm looking up from sitting on Nicole's back. I
was obviously mortified. I didn't know what to do. I
got up slowly, and then he started in on both
of us and wanted to be left alone with Nicole.
So he repeatedly said, I want to talk to you alone.
I want to talk to you alone. And I said,
I'm not going to leave you alone with her. I
(11:45):
don't trust you. Until eventually Nicole convinced me to go outside.
I stood outside in the kitchen close enough that I
could hear if something was going to go down, but
I couldn't hear every word they were saying. Five ten
minutes later, when they came out of the together, he
approached me in the kitchen and gave me this half
hearted sort of shook my hand. I'm a proud man,
(12:07):
was his statement. I didn't reply. I just sort of
stuck my hand out, and then he disappeared to.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Say, she's a proud man, A proud man that hunkered
down behind a bush the whole night to see.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
What you were doing with the wife that he had
broken up with him over the beatings, That proud man.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Can you just see him squatted down behind the bush.
It's probably the hides the kite, and we.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Know it's my opinion that he tried to enter the
house that night, whether through the front door, whether through
the back door, but I'm convinced one percent that he
didn't just watch us through the window and walk away
and go home. I'm convinced he tried to get into
the house. We didn't hear him. We had some music
on and we were involved, obviously, but you know, to
(12:56):
find out the next day how personal that was. And
when Nicole came out of the bedroom behind him and
he shook my hand and left, she was mortified. You
could see it. She was white as a ghost, and
she just looked me in the eye and said, he
watched us. Oh my god, he watched everything we did
last night. And then we just looked at each other
and went, oh my god, what's safe. We didn't know
(13:19):
what was SKay.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
You do know he probably camped outside her house the
entire night.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
There's no way Simpson goes home and comes back. No, no, no,
And this is why the children were home asleep upstairs.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Yes, correct. And the eerie part of that whole thing
is Nancy. And it goes back to the title of
the book. Is you have to draw a direct correlation
between that evening and the evening of the murders in
June twelfth and ninety four, because the geography is so
eerily similar, and you read about it in the book
where I describe how I left about maybe four or
(13:59):
fourth in the morning because I would never stay the
night at Nichole's house because we were leary of the
children waking up and finding another man in the house.
That was just how we thought about it. So I
left very early in the morning, and it was dead
silent in Brettwood. I just remember that it was spooky
silent as I walked out of the house to my car,
which was parked on the street, so I was accessible,
(14:23):
so I know he wasn't there. Then he must have
gone home at some point. But if you look at
the geography of how there's a long courtyard and a
gate and another sidewalk that leads to the living room window,
it's exactly what he did on June twelfth. He came
through a gate, down along sidewalk around a corner through
her front window where she had to come out the
(14:43):
front door where he eventually murdered her and Ron. So
there's a direct correlation if you look at it, and
I write about it, to both those evenings, and that's
what sparked in my mind the whole. It could have
been me part of it, because I felt like had
he been there that night, it would have been me.
Or if he could have gotten into the house that
(15:04):
evening through an unlocked boarder, which none of them were,
that it could have happened right there in the living room.
So I've had ninemars about that for in the last
thirty years, and something that was an overbearing say.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Such a Bethey Marshall, what does that mean. I mean,
It's one thing to have an argument with your ex.
I would expect that, especially when you've got children together,
but to call your ex a whoror a bitch and
everything else that he called her, told her he was
trash and filthy and dirty and had shamed him. Really
(15:40):
with the children, you know, they could hear me. He
was screaming like a crazy man.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
Nancy is part of the pattern of abuse right devalue
the woman, shame her for her sexuality, humiliate her, embarrass her,
try to take down her credibility in front of the children.
These are classic abuse signs. Also trying to isolate the
victim from sources of support. So here she starts dating Keith.
(16:08):
They're having this romantic evening, he bursts through the bedroom
because what he's trying to do is assert dominance over
Nicole and over Keith, and he thinks that by separating them,
he's going to be able to separate them permanently. Now
that really odd thing where he says, I'm a proud man.
He turns reality on its head. He's actually humiliating himself
(16:32):
as well as her. And then when he shakes hands
with Keith, that's I think another dominance moves. He thinks
that he's he's been successful in separating the two, getting
them into different rooms, shakes hands and leaves, and I
think he feels like he got his way.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
And what he won? What do you mean he won.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
That?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
He won that.
Speaker 6 (16:54):
He has now taken Nicole apart, psychologically abused her, beat
her down emotionally, and now she will come back and
depend on him instead of continuing to date Keith. He
probably thought that.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
So basically, he's like a dog that comes in and
TETs on everything that he thinks is his.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
Exactly that's exactly what he did. That's how he asserted
the dominant. He lifted his leg and then he was
happy and he left because her house was his Territory. Nancy.
I used to live in Brentwood between Nicole was just
to the south of me and O. J. Simpson on
Rockingham was just to the north. So I know that
area very very well. It is super quiet at four
(17:38):
in the morning. Brentwood is such kind of like a
sleepy community, but it's a very wealthy enclave. So her
house where it was located, it was almost like walking
distance between the house and Metsaluna where Rob where Ron
Goldman worked, and so it was it was a place
(17:58):
where there was a lot of visits ability. She and
I went to the same hair salon and the same
nail salon, and the girls in there will talk about
the fact that she would come in with bruises on
her face and on her arms. She lived her life
being stalked and being beaten.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
That that was just her life. Very disturbing.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
And even though I prosecuted, by the time I got
domestic violence cases as they are called euphemistically, somebody was
dead or had had an aggravated assault or aggravated battery
like lost.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
An eye, lost use of an arm, lost use of
a limb.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
But when I worked at the Battered Women's Center as
a volunteer at night.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
That was for nine years.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
And to hear these women because again by the time
I usually got their cases, they were dead and I
never got to speak to them. But as working the hotline,
I did speak to them and they would be just
totally numb.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It would be just a way of life for them.
You know, that's curious.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Back to you, Keith Zlamzowitch new book stalked it could
have been me. It's interesting the way you described and
I didn't want to interrupt you when you first said
it that you guys were at the Roxbury and you
were having a great time.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Everybody's dancing. Look there's Simpson. Oh what a coinciding there
he is. He's probably been following you the whole night.
And she was like, there he is. See I would
have been shot, like why is he or what? What?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
But she it was just typical another day in Brentwood
for her. There's Ojay stalking her again, Simpson Orenthal, James
Simpson turning up again wherever she was.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It was just routine for her at that point. She
was numb to it.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I mean, by the way you described it, she wasn't
shocked or afraid.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
There he is like a bad penny.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
And we were getting used to it, to be honest
with you, because this was the third or fourth time
that he approached Does in public. And they had had
an agreement that if they both showed up at the
same place, the first one there was allowed to stay,
the second one there if they saw the other person
would leave. He never abided by that, obviously, but he
(20:10):
knew where we were going because the times that he
would show up would be just too uncanny. So we
knew that we were either being followed or were being
ratted out by someone as to where our destination would be.
So he knew exactly where to go, where to find us,
and that includes that night we had gone to a
comedy show first before we went to Roxbury to go dancing.
(20:32):
We get into Roxbury and there he is, We leave
Roxbury and what you do follows us home. So there
was a pattern.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
This is about it. I mean they even had an
agreement in place.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Hey, when we both show up at the same place
at the same time, the one who got their first
gets to stay. So obviously this had happened so many
times they had to come up with some type of
an agreement A truce of sorts.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Another thing that you just mentioned that you think other
people could have been riting you out. I started to say,
hold on, Slammy, wait a minute, don't make this a
big conspiracy that didn't happen. But you know, when it
comes to Simpson, he had so many followers and so
many hangers on and so many friends, it's entirely possible
(21:32):
that they would call me and go, hey, your wife's here,
although they were completely separated at that point.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Guys, it didn't end there. Listen.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Keith meets Nicole Aspen, Colorado. Zlimzowitch is director of operations
for Metsaluna Restaurant chains California locations and Aspen. Keith returns
to Los Angeles and he and Nicole begin dating. Keith
and Nicole constantly under attack as Simpson stocks and harrasses
the couple. During a dinner out in Metsalona and Brentwood,
Keith and Nicole mortified to see Simpson pull up in
(22:08):
front of the restaurant.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
Nicole was there, Keith was there. The defendant suddenly showed up,
drove up in front of the restaurant, got out of
the car, walked up to the table where there was
seated and put his hands on and said, I'm O. J. Simpson,
and she's still my wife when she filed for divorce
and moved out of his house.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
That was intimidate.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
No one over here now and the three two, five,
GrITT and a green.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
He's back, Timplon, I.
Speaker 8 (22:38):
Think you know his records be over here, throwing him over.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
What kind of cardie? He's in a white cronkle, always looking.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
To her here.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
The nine on one calls escalate, escalate, escalate.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Nothing was ever done, and now she's dead joining us
tonight a man that truly loved her and that she loved.
In return, Keith Slums, which new book stalked it could
have been me, and he's totally right.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I want to look very quickly at what we were
just viewing.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And that's Darden's argument to the jury because I want
to watch Simpson. This is Darden describing another incident where
Simpson shows up where Nicole and Keith are.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Let's watch.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
That's a messalone.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
Nicole was there, Keith was there. The defendant suddenly showed up,
drove up in front of the restaurant, got out of
the car, walked up to the table where there was
seated that put his hands on and said, I'm OJ Simpson,
and she's still my wife when she filed for divorce
and moved out of his house.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
That's what I wanted to say. That's what I want
to see.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
When Darden says she filed for divorce and moved out
of the house, He's like, did you see that? I mean?
And another thing I've noticed when I was watching him
during the trial and Keith, you were called as a
witness for both the state and the defense, so I'm
going to get into but I notice every time it
got sticky for Simpson, he would.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Like suddenly start writing notes. I would have loved to
see those notes. I did it come in get me.
But he would look away from the journey start writing notes.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So I would always know when I was watching the
trial at the time that whatever was happening that would
make Simpsons act like he was taking legal notes was
something that was damaging to the defense.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I want to move forward. Guys, listen to this.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
After the incident at Metzaluna, when Keith refuses to back
down to Simpson, Nicole opens up and shares her life
of abuse with Simpson. As the couple continues to date,
Simpson stalks Keith and Nicole wherever they go, showing up
at every restaurant in the nightclub, hiding in bushes and
watching through windows, making it impossible for Nicole to have
(24:58):
a romantic relationships.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Keith Zlamzowitch, author of a brand new book, Stalked It
could have been me?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Keith, when did she first tell you that Simpson had
been beating her for years?
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Very early on? Actually, when I got to Los Angeles
and we started the dating thing, we became and as
these incidents of stalking started to present themselves, we were
living it in real time, so we had this sort
of bond. She understood I was going through the same
thing she had gone through in the past, So she
(25:34):
started to tell me about certain incidents between them, beatings,
you know, control, all his possessiveness, personal stuff that I
think she felt at that time because we had a
bond from what we were going through together, so she
opened up about everything, and I think she opened up
more to me than she did to a lot of people,
(25:55):
maybe even some of her family. You know, she wasn't
very proud of of some of the stuff that had
happened to her in the past. So some of the
stuff she kept inside she shared with me because we
were living it in real time. She also was visiting
a psychologist at the time. We used to almost laugh
about it because the psychologist gave her a book entitled
(26:16):
something to the effect Women Who Love Men who Hate Them.
And I remember she used to have that book at
the house and she'd read from it and talk to
me about it a little bit, and she was trying
to figure out what it was that kept her with
him all those years.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
At the hands of it did that Nicole Brown was
not proud of things that had happened to her.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
Like what.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Like beatings. I described some of them in the book.
There are times when they'd be on a trip together,
a business trip, and he'd leave the room and he'd
come back and she'd know that he was with another woman,
and she would confront him and she'd be beaten and
locked in a closet. That happened more than once, and
she told me about those. So obviously she wasn't very
(27:04):
proud that she was still around after some of those incidents.
But it was her family, it was the children, it
was the thought of having that family unit together that
kept her around all those years and ultimately led to
the reconciliation. The failed reconciliation that cost her her life.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Leads me to another ship got back with. Did her
family encourage her to stay with Simpson.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
No, I don't believe that. I know that they liked OJ. Initially.
OJ was very charming. There were two Ojs and this
is something she told me directly. There's two OJ Simpson's Keith.
There's the public one that everybody sees, and there's a
private one that only I see. And you don't never
want to be left alone with the private one because
(27:52):
you don't know what he's capable of. I mean, we
had that conversation. So I think the family thought OJ
was a nicer guy than he really was. I mean,
they were aware a few incidents. Obviously, Denise testified to
several domestic violence incidents that Nicole told her about. But
I can't get in the middle of the family dynamic
(28:13):
and tell you exactly what they were thinking. But I
know Denise, you know, was witnessed to from Nicole telling
her several incidents.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Did they take money from Simpson her family?
Speaker 4 (28:28):
I don't know that they took money. I know that
it's widely reported that they helped Nicole's father with I
believe it was a hurtz rent a car franchise that
you know, he ultimately made some money. What from so
I think that happened. I never heard anything like he
you know, provided them with cash for a house or
(28:49):
anything like that. And I don't think that was the case.
I mean, lou and Judy were salt of the earth
people they met well.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, you know what, I think they stood.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
For the door that people make those claims against her
family to somehow, I mean I see it all the time.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Somehow blame the victims. It's their fault.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
They were leeches, they took money, they encouraged it, and ooh, he.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Lost his temper and killed her.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
It's just total crap, Doctor Bethany Marshall, this brings up
another issue, if you could touch on it very quickly.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Why is it the woman feels ashamed of what quote.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Happened to her. It's like ooh, a trip that happened
to me. No, it didn't happen to her. Someone physically
assaulted her, beat her to a pulp, and would lock
her in the closet, which is a new to us.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
That's something I didn't know would lock her in a closet.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Now, look again, that's a trial lawyer, but that means
something to lock somebody in a closet.
Speaker 6 (29:56):
Well, he again, he wanted total control and dominance over her,
So to locker in a closet is to have her
all for himself and also to terrify her and discourage
her from interacting with other people. Nancy, this self blame
that victims do. I think of it as a crisis
of boundaries, meaning the victim knows that something is severely
(30:18):
wrong with the perpetrator. The perpetrator is disregulated, obsessed, self preoccupied,
relating to the victim through power instead of love and affection.
But the victim feels that it's her job to fix it,
and if she can't fix it, then she has failed
in some way. In some ways, these men pull the
(30:39):
women in kind of a mothering role. That becomes the
woman's job to keep the man's world safe and predictable,
to make him okay. So when she can't do it,
when that task breaks down, she then falls into self blame. Also,
there's so much humiliation going on, Nancy, it's almost like
(30:59):
a form of brain where she begins to feel that
she's a failure, because you hear.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
What she said to Keith that there were two ojs
when everybody sees in public and the one that she
sees in private. I have seen that in court. Of course,
by the time I get it, it's a domestic homicide.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
But no one would ever think this guy was the devil.
The devil when he's alone with the woman at home.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
He's so charming and charismatic, some people even think attractive physically.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
It could not be more of a dichotomy, you.
Speaker 6 (31:40):
Know, Nancy, I thought of sociopathy, right, the personality disorder
of being a sociopath when Keith was talking about this,
because one of the criterias is that the sociopath has
a thin veneer of affability. They're charming, they're outgoing because
of how people really tend to like them. At the
(32:00):
minute they get their feelings hurt or they feel diminished,
minimized in some way, that veneer cracks, and what you
see underneath is a very cold, calculated interior. So he
was calculating, probably for a long long time, how he
was going to put a stop to all of this,
(32:22):
and we know especially.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
You get what we're doing tonight, right.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I'm not only talking about your new book Stalked, but
I'm trying to tell and I want you to help
me tell it along with Bethany to other women.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
They think nobody's gonna believe me. This is somehow my fault.
I screwed up. I don't want my family to know.
I'm gonna wear a high neck and long sleeves and
long pants. I don't want anybody to see the bruises.
I don't want my children to know. I don't want
to mess up, mess up my family. I don't want
to do that. It's all technical, legal term crap bs.
(33:00):
They will be beaten. It statistically will not get better.
It won't. It will get worse. I don't like being
the harbinger of doom, but.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
I know what the statistics tell me, and the woman
will live through it for the rest of her life
if she stays, and even worse, the children will see it,
hear it.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Mommy's a whoreror, mommy's a bitch, and they will grow
up numb to that and think it's okay.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
The girl growing up will end up with a man
that beats her Statistically and the boy growing up. He
starts off like a little angel will grow up to
beat someone.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Statistically, this is true. You've got to tell this story, Keith.
Do you hear me?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
You hear you? And that's part of the reason I
wrote the book. Over the years, certainly since the advent
of social media, I've been reached out to by numerous
women around the country and some overseas that followed the story,
followed Nicole in my plight and appreciated what I did
to try to defend her and pick up for her.
(34:10):
Made a lot of I've helped a lot of women
out of circumstances where they've come to me and said,
you know, you gave me the strength to get out
of this relationship when I didn't think I had that,
and I'm still friends with some of them to this day.
So I wanted this to be a sort of wake
up call for some women who are going through this
right now as we speak, who may be watching this,
(34:30):
to know that it doesn't change. Guys like that are
going to be like that. They do not change. When
OJ tried his reconciliation with Nicole fifteen months after I
had met her and we had been so close during
that time, he took her away to Mexico. She was
at her parents' house for Easter weekend, I believe it was,
(34:52):
and he knew she would be there, so he showed
up unannounced, uninvited, and tried to convince her he had
been to therap, he had changed, he was a new man,
and he swept her away to Mexico to spend some
time together to try to get her back. She fell
into it, and you know, sadly, all Nick really wanted
was her family. She wanted that family unit together, and
(35:15):
we talked about this many times, and she fell back
into his trap of I've changed, let me show you
how good I can be. And she called me and
we had long talks about it, and she decided she
was going to give it a try. And that's when
our incredible friendship that we had developed came to an
end because he never got over me. And then fast
(35:36):
forward to October that year when the nine to one
one tape occurs. Something else you have to remember is
he did all this in front of the children. He
belittled Nicole over the year and a half about making
love to me with the children in the house. That
was his big thing. Look what you did. The kids
are here, Look what you did. You're trash, You're dirty,
(35:57):
You're filthy. All the things he said to make her
feel that way. But look at the facts. He kicked
in the door and threatened to beat her when the
children were there. He killed her and Ron Goldman when
the children were there and the door was open and
they were sleeping right upstairs. And if they hadn't found
those bodies, the children would have woken up. Tommy was
(36:22):
Keith your father?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
And women out there are looking at Nicole Brown, you know,
before she was murdered by Simpson, thinking oh, she's so beautiful,
she's so glamorous, she's so perfect.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
She's got this perfect life, this beautiful home, gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Home children Simpson, and they think, you know, why can't
I have a life like that?
Speaker 1 (36:46):
And the reality is abuse, And that seems to be
sugarcoating it. I mean, downright beatings.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Breaking arms, noses, blood gushing out of your mouth, losing teeth.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
That's the reality.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
And if it could happen to someone like Nicole Brown,
it can happen to anybody.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Speaking of the other O. J. Simpson, take a lesson
someone over here now three two five.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Britton agree, he's that?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Please?
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (37:18):
What does okay, Jimpson?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
I think you know his record?
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Over here?
Speaker 3 (37:23):
What is he doing here?
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Over?
Speaker 1 (37:29):
He's in a white bronc Broke.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
Wait a minute.
Speaker 6 (37:34):
What's your name?
Speaker 4 (37:36):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (37:36):
Is either sports Canter or whatever?
Speaker 6 (37:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (37:39):
Okay, wait a minute?
Speaker 4 (37:41):
What is he? Is?
Speaker 9 (37:48):
Mister Simpson kissing Denise Brown? Because mister Dtha Brown, it
is mister Lewis. Brown's talking to a friend Rex his
son Justin let me kisses.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
After Sydney's dance recital, Nicole, the children, and her family
leaves Simpson behind at the school and go to dinner
with friends at Metzaluna in Brentwood. Nichole's mother accidentally leaves
her glasses behind, and Ron Goldman, a friend of Nicole
who works at the restaurant, volunteers to drop the glasses
off at Nichole's house. Goldman leaves Metsaluna at nine forty
five pm.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
Non invited to family dinner at Mezzaluna, Simpson grabs McDonald's
with his house guest, Kayln Cato. The pair returned to
Simpson's home around nine forty pm. Around ten forty pm, Kayln,
here's several thumps outside his room and goes to investigate,
but gets distracted by the limo waiting outside Simpson's gate,
hired to take him for the airport.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Closing arguments by my former co anchor Johnny Cochran's from
our friends at Court TV. And you know what they're
doing right there at Keith's Lumsawitch, author of a brand
new book, stalked Cochrane, brilliant, great trial lawyer. You'd have
a jury eating out his hand. He's portraying Simpson as
being charming and in with the family. That Simpson kissed Denise,
(39:08):
he kissed JUDITHA, he kissed mister Brown, picks up his
son Justin, his son with Nicole and kisses him.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Oh what a great family guy. They all love him.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I know exactly what Johnny Cochrane, god rest Is Soul
is doing.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
This guy would never look at him. The whole family
loves him. He wasn't beating Nicole Bs, Yes he was.
That's from Court TV, Keith. That's what Cochrane is doing
right there. He's a puppet master.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Absolutely, But that goes back to what I was saying earlier.
There's two O. J.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Simpsons.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
He's in public. There he's around the kids, he's around
the family. So you're gonna see that O. J. Simpson,
You're not going to see the private one. That was
the one who beat Nicole and the one who stalked
us and followed us and made our life possible to
be together and miserable. So it just goes right into
what I was saying about the ches.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Is all of this is happening the night Nicole and
Ron are murdered. There was the piano recitaled, and the
family goes to Messaluna after he's not invited, and his
rage begins to build, and this is where it ends.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Listen a neighbor's seas Nicolls white Akita Cato wandering the
neighborhood alone, barking, agitated, and on closer inspection they notice
he has bloody pause.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Crime Stories with Nancy Gray.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
A neighbors seas Nicolls, white Akita Cato wandering the neighborhood alone, barking, agitated,
and on closer inspection they notice he has bloody Pause.
The neighbor follows Cato to investigate, discovering Nicole and Ron's
bodies at twelve ten am.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Wondering the neighborhood covered in blood.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Nichole's blood, her head practically cut off her body in
the front yard, but no one believes Simpson could have
done it.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
We know he hides in the bushes and stalks her home.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
He sees Ron Goldman. He thinks, Oh, they're the whores
with another man. I'm sure that's what he was thinking.
Nothing could have been further from the truth, so Lapd
heads to Simpson's home.
Speaker 7 (41:34):
Detectives, Furman, and Fanatter go to simpsons nearby home to
notify him of his wife's death. Furman sees what appears
to be bloodstains on Simpson's Ford Bronco and decides to
jump the fence to gain access to Simpson's property. Fanatter
declares Simpson's home a crime scene and goes to secure
a search warrant for the house around seven am.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Simpson leaves home at eleven ten PM to catch an
eleven forty five flight to Chicago, lands by thirty am,
backing into the O'Hare Plaza hotel. At six fifteen. Seven am,
detectives inform Simpson of the murders over the phone and
ask him to return to La Simpson flies back June
thirteenth and his handcuffed. On arrival, Simson his question for hours,
an investigator's photograph.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
On his bronco cut on his hand. How did this
guy walk free?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
And then there's the NFMUS slow speed chase for Simpson
basically holds himself hostage.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Remember that, because I'll never forget it.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
What are you reporting?
Speaker 1 (42:35):
One?
Speaker 3 (42:36):
I have in the car?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Okay, where are you free? I'm coming up to five freeways.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Okay, right now, we all we allkay, but.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
You gotta sell a brass back off. He still laughs.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
He's got to go through his hair.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Okay, hold on a minute, Micah, let me hold on
a moment.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
There's everything else, Okay, everything right now, go everything.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
That's all.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
That's all. We have got.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Something, all right.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
I cannot believe the arrogance of these two. You know
who I am?
Speaker 7 (43:21):
What?
Speaker 1 (43:22):
No, the dispatcher does not know who you are.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Callings for your first two initials, and he says he's
going to his mother's.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
This guy murder two people?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Why is he even out walking around on bonds holding
himself hostage?
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (43:38):
No, anybody else they would have police would have overtaken,
gotten them out of that car and put them face
down on the ground.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
But no, not Simpson. And it all culminates in this.
Speaker 7 (43:54):
Matter people versus Orienthal James Simpson. You plead to count
one and two.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
Absolutely what Simson is.
Speaker 10 (44:07):
This is oj Simpson's one day in court by your decision,
control of his very life in your hands. Treat you carefully,
treated fairly, be fair, don't be part of this continuing
cover up. Do the right thing, remembering that if it
(44:29):
doesn't fit, you must acquit.
Speaker 8 (44:31):
In the matter of the People of the State of
California versus Orenthal James Simpson, Case number b A zero
ninety seven two one one, we the jury and the
ambolved and title action find the defendant or Orenthal James Simpson,
not guilty of a crime of murder in violation of
penal cult Section one eighty seven a A felony upon
Nicole Brown Simpson our.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Forends a Court TV. Were you surprised at the verdict?
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Keith, Yes, Now I was concerned that the jury was
going to buy into Johnny Cochrane's both for the lack
of a better word, but I wasn't over it.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
You were actually a pall bearer. You carried Nichole's coffin.
What was going through your mind? You knew he murdered her.
Speaker 4 (45:28):
This is almost a surreal, out of body experience. You
got to remember the murders took place on a Sunday night,
Monday morning. The funeral was on a Thursday. It was
so lightning speed. I flew out there immediately. The family
asked me if i'd be a ballbearer. I didn't see
them because I flew into Los Angeles the night before.
So the first interaction I had face to face with
(45:51):
the Brown family was as holding the basket at the funeral.
And that's when one of the sisters came up to
me and said, do you realize what we were talking
about that night? And I said, no, I don't, She
said you she was talking about Surprise and Aspen. So
imagine my heartbreak. I hadn't spoken in Nicole for six
(46:14):
months or so, since that infamous nine one one call
where we weren't allowed to speak anymore because of OJ
still loving her, still thinking about her every day. She's dead,
she's gone. I'm holding her casket. I'm standing two feet
away from the guy I know in my heart and
mine murdered her. And I'm told that she was thinking
(46:35):
about me the night she was murdered. I was. I
can't even tell you the emotions that went through me
at that point. So it was crazy. And then as
we went down to the burial site, I actually had
to stand next to oj Simpson almost elbow to elbow
for an hour or whatever time it took to read
(46:56):
the rites of Passage and everything that took place down there,
knowing what had happened, and having to stand next to him.
So just imagine my emotions during that whole thing.
Speaker 7 (47:07):
It was.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
It's hard to describe. I try to do that in
the book. I do my best job of trying to
walk the reader through exactly what I was feeling in
my emotions. But it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Case you never married after all these.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Years, ever married, never had children. I don't know if
that's strictly because of my relationship with Nicole, but I
never got over it. My life turned into a circus, obviously,
with what was going on. It took me years to
get over that, and I always kept a place for
(47:44):
in my heart and I just never could get that
attached to anyone else from that point on. So I'm
pushing sixty five now, I'm still single, and I have
a lot of great memories, but this tragic event shaped
my life, my entire adult or not.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I know exactly how you feel.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
I know you do it.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
This book is amazing.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
I'm so honored that you joined us, Keith, this book
Stalked it could have been me, And there's just so
much more to say beyond what we've talked about tonight,
even beyond.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
What's in your book.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Just I'm very grateful for you shining a light on
this plague in our world of women being abused so
horribly and ending up dead and their children destined to
repeat the pattern. Stalked it could have been me. Tonight,
(48:52):
we remember all the women who proceeded and followed Nicole Brown,
victims to domestic violence. Not just them, but they're children
victims as well. And we honor the women that find
(49:14):
the strength to speak out. They are all our American heroes.
Nancy Gray signing off, Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
He says double killer OJ Simpson spied on him during
his sofa sex session with O. J. Simpson's wife, Nicole Brown. Well,
that's just the tip of the iceberg. This guy has
a brand new book, and he's right when he says
that could have been me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I mean, is he Grace? This is Crime Stories.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I want to thank you for being with us here.
Can you send some one to my house or my
ex husband or my husband?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
He broke into my house and he's ranting and raving.
Now he's just walked out the front yard and.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Nobody's crazy.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
You know what always strikes me about that portion of
one of Nicole Brown's many, many nine one one calls
is that she was just like, yeah, he's breaking into
my house again. By this time, it had happened so
many times, and she had been beaten so many times.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
That photo that was put up in the courtroom during
Simpson's murder.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Trial of her with her face just totally beaten and bruised.
I mean, how that jury, Oh gosh, that's one of them.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Look at her arm for Pete's sake. Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It happened over and over and over, joining me right now.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Two incredible guests.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
First, I want to introduce to you Keith Zulomsowitch. He
is Nicole Brown's former boyfriend, and he is the author
of a brand new book, Stalked, And I've got it
right now, but I really think we should give the
whole title it stalked. It could have been me, And
(01:51):
I think what you mean by that, Keith, is that
you could have been the one lying out in the
driveway that night with your head nearly severed off your body.
Nicole Brown's head was attached to her body by a
thin a thin bit of flesh in the back of
(02:17):
her neck. She had been almost totally decapitated. The killer
had that immense strength. I wonder what he would have
done with you if he had gotten a hold of you, Keith,
knowing that you had been dating Nicole, actually spying.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
On you through the window. Freak.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Freak is right, And you're absolutely right when you say that.
In real time, maybe it didn't cross my mind as much,
But after I saw what he was capable of in
the murders I've had to live with for thirty years,
I think that it could have.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Been merry shots Nicole in life. Some of the happiest
time of her life outside of being a mom, were
with Keith Zulamsowitch. It's not just what he's saying, it's
what other people said. Of course, their relationship was marred,
(03:16):
ruined by this.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
It's three o'clock in the morning and Keith and Nicole
made love on the couch, but they weren't alone. There
was somebody watching. There was someone watching through the window.
It was a defendant.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Nicole hires a babysitter to watch the children while she
and Keith go out to a comedy club. Arriving home,
the children are asleep. It's about three am when Keith
and Nicole become amorous on the couch. Unbeknownst to either
of them, OJ Simpson is hiding in the bushes outside
the house, stalking, watching the couple love on the couch.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Did you have any idea that OJ Simpson was staring?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
He's about three feet away from you.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It sounds like addy threesome watching you have sex with
Nicole Brown with his shoulder asleep upstairs. I mean, did
you have any idea the extent to which he was
stalking you and her?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
We knew about the stalking because it had happened several
times prior to this particular incident, but that evening we
were out several places before we went home, one of
which was Roxbury where Nicole saw Oj across the dance
floor and brought it to my attention immediately that he
was there, and we just sort of at that point
(04:45):
had had enough of his stalking and following us. So
she looked at me and she said, what do you
want to do. Let's just get out of here. So
we headed back to the house, not knowing he was
going to follow us. In hindsight, maybe should have had
an idea that that was going to happen. But you know,
we got home and we were in the house thinking
we were alone, and things happened. That was the first
(05:05):
time we made love, so it was a special It
was very special. Come to find out.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You know, I need a strength and I named one
really quickly.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Doctor Bethany Marshall is joining us renowned psychoanalyst.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Out of la this jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
You can see her now on Peacock and you can
find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall,
I'm just a trial lawyer, you're the shrink. But this,
there's got to be a name for this, for what
Simpson did before the double murders.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
Yes, well, obviously it's voyeurism, but Nancy, it is stalking,
like the title of Keith's book, and the psychology of
stalking is that the perpetrator, the stalker, lives in a
state of rejection all the time, even when that other person,
maybe in a wouldn't pick up a phone call or
wouldn't spend time with him, and everything got interpreted as rejections.
(06:06):
So he stalked her to punish her for rejecting him.
He also believed that she belonged to him like property.
So I imagine when he's standing outside the window watching them
have sex, take each other's clothes off, make out. I mean,
I'm imagining the whole thing, with his face pressed up
against the mirror. Nancy, he was probably enraged and even
(06:30):
at that point, possibly having homicidal fantasies. I'm not surprised
that Keith waited so long to come out with this
book because OJ Simpson is gone now. He can't do
anything from the grapes, so it's a safe time to
talk about it and It's a very important message this book.
I think it's so wonderful Keith that you wrote it
and that people can read it about it.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I forget what you just said, doctor Bethany, Because Simpson,
even during his marriage was women threw themselves at him.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
How can you say OJ Simpson was in his state
of rejection. The world loved him. He was an icon.
Don't you remember those I believe it was.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Was it Avas or hurt I think it was AVOs
rental cars where he would be running through the airport
and jumping over things, is very athletic, carrying like a
bag with him or something.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
He was a star.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
He was in movies, he was in commercials. Everybody loved him.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
What do you mean a state of rejection but no dancy.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
This is what we see Bucker's and I believe was
going on psychologically for Oj is that he probably had
sexual relationships with other women, responded to women, flirted with women.
But at the same time he was obsessed and preoccupied
with Nicole. He only wanted her. And so we see
(07:51):
with these guys often they're pathologically jealous. They feel betrayed
all the time, even if the girl, the woman goes
out having lunch with her friends or something like that.
He would feel betrayed and rejected and then to get
back at her, go have sex with other women. That's
a really common thing for sociopaths, and he seems to just.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Don't get it.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Let me go back to Keith Zlamzowitch, the author of
a brand new book Climbing the Charts on Amazon, stalked,
but I like the rest of the title because it
says so much more it could have been me. And
he's right because in a blind rage, Simpson not only
murdered decapitated his wife Nicole, but a completely innocent guy
(08:36):
that had returned a pair of glasses to her home
that night.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
You know, there he is Ron Goleman. And what a.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Horrific phone call had to be made to Golman's family
to tell them, just out of the blue, their boy
is dead, murdered.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
They probably first thought, oh, it must have been a
car crash.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
No, no, then they find out the awful truth.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Guys, the stalking just so bizarre.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But that night, the first time that Keith had sex
with Nicole Brown they had been dating a while. He
had no idea oj Simpson was peeking peeping tom through
the window just a few feet away, staring at them
the whole time. I'm really surprised he didn't break down
(09:28):
the window and come in and strangle you right then
and there. When did you find out he had been
spying on you that whole night?
Speaker 4 (09:38):
The very next day, OJ burst into us. We were
in the back bedroom of one of Nicole of Nicholl's house,
in one of the bedrooms, and he came bursting in
right on top of us and started declaring that he
had watched us the night before, and he wanted to
be left alone with Nicole. I wanted. I didn't want
to leave her alone. I was scared for her safety.
(09:59):
So I stood my ground, stood in between the two
of them, and refused to leave. He was getting angrier
and angrier, until finally Nicole realized the only way to
get him out of there was to have me wait
outside the bedroom door, so I did. She asked me
to stay close enough so I could hear if anything happened,
which I did, and then he continued to go after
(10:20):
her and read her the Riot Act.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
What was he saying to you or let me guess,
bitch or blah.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Blah, Oh, how filthy she was, how disgrace she is.
I watched you. I saw everything you did. You know
it was as bad. I couldn't hear every word he
was saying. But when she came out of the bedroom,
when they came out together after about ten minutes, and
he tried the old shake my hand thing, you know
(10:46):
that wasn't wasn't.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Oh okay, and he stretches out. He breaks in.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
He bursts into the bedroom when you were in a color,
still in there, I think you said, still in bed?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Me woke you up, and starts harassing Well what now?
Speaker 4 (11:03):
I was giving her a I was giving her a
back massage, non sexual, and he came in through the
back door, which also told us that he knew exactly
where we at. We were at in the house. He
didn't try to come through the front door, he didn't
come through the screen door in the back. He came
right through the bedroom French doors that we were in,
so he knew where we were at in the house,
(11:25):
and he came right through, stood right in my face
as I'm looking up from sitting on Nicole's back. I
was obviously mortified. I didn't know what to do. I
got up slowly, and then he started in on both
of us and wanted to be left alone with Nicole.
So he repeatedly said, I want to talk to you alone.
I want to talk to you alone. And I said,
I'm not going to leave you alone with her. I
(11:45):
don't trust you. Until eventually Nicole convinced me to go outside.
I stood outside in the kitchen close enough that I
could hear if something was going to go down, but
I couldn't hear every word they were saying. Five ten
minutes later, when they came out of the together, he
approached me in the kitchen and gave me this half
hearted sort of shook my hand. I'm a proud man,
(12:07):
was his statement. I didn't reply. I just sort of
stuck my hand out, and then he disappeared to.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Say, she's a proud man, A proud man that hunkered
down behind a bush the whole night to see.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
What you were doing with the wife that he had
broken up with him over the beatings, That proud man.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Can you just see him squatted down behind the bush.
It's probably the hides the kite, and we.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Know it's my opinion that he tried to enter the
house that night, whether through the front door, whether through
the back door, but I'm convinced one percent that he
didn't just watch us through the window and walk away
and go home. I'm convinced he tried to get into
the house. We didn't hear him. We had some music
on and we were involved, obviously, but you know, to
(12:56):
find out the next day how personal that was. And
when Nicole came out of the bedroom behind him and
he shook my hand and left, she was mortified. You
could see it. She was white as a ghost, and
she just looked me in the eye and said, he
watched us. Oh my god, he watched everything we did
last night. And then we just looked at each other
and went, oh my god, what's safe. We didn't know
(13:19):
what was SKay.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
You do know he probably camped outside her house the
entire night.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
There's no way Simpson goes home and comes back. No, no, no,
And this is why the children were home asleep upstairs.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Yes, correct. And the eerie part of that whole thing
is Nancy. And it goes back to the title of
the book. Is you have to draw a direct correlation
between that evening and the evening of the murders in
June twelfth and ninety four, because the geography is so
eerily similar, and you read about it in the book
where I describe how I left about maybe four or
(13:59):
fourth in the morning because I would never stay the
night at Nichole's house because we were leary of the
children waking up and finding another man in the house.
That was just how we thought about it. So I
left very early in the morning, and it was dead
silent in Brettwood. I just remember that it was spooky
silent as I walked out of the house to my car,
which was parked on the street, so I was accessible,
(14:23):
so I know he wasn't there. Then he must have
gone home at some point. But if you look at
the geography of how there's a long courtyard and a
gate and another sidewalk that leads to the living room window,
it's exactly what he did on June twelfth. He came
through a gate, down along sidewalk around a corner through
her front window where she had to come out the
(14:43):
front door where he eventually murdered her and Ron. So
there's a direct correlation if you look at it, and
I write about it, to both those evenings, and that's
what sparked in my mind the whole. It could have
been me part of it, because I felt like had
he been there that night, it would have been me.
Or if he could have gotten into the house that
(15:04):
evening through an unlocked boarder, which none of them were,
that it could have happened right there in the living room.
So I've had ninemars about that for in the last
thirty years, and something that was an overbearing say.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Such a Bethey Marshall, what does that mean. I mean,
It's one thing to have an argument with your ex.
I would expect that, especially when you've got children together,
but to call your ex a whoror a bitch and
everything else that he called her, told her he was
trash and filthy and dirty and had shamed him. Really
(15:40):
with the children, you know, they could hear me. He
was screaming like a crazy man.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
Nancy is part of the pattern of abuse right devalue
the woman, shame her for her sexuality, humiliate her, embarrass her,
try to take down her credibility in front of the children.
These are classic abuse signs. Also trying to isolate the
victim from sources of support. So here she starts dating Keith.
(16:08):
They're having this romantic evening, he bursts through the bedroom
because what he's trying to do is assert dominance over
Nicole and over Keith, and he thinks that by separating them,
he's going to be able to separate them permanently. Now
that really odd thing where he says, I'm a proud man.
He turns reality on its head. He's actually humiliating himself
(16:32):
as well as her. And then when he shakes hands
with Keith, that's I think another dominance moves. He thinks
that he's he's been successful in separating the two, getting
them into different rooms, shakes hands and leaves, and I
think he feels like he got his way.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
And what he won? What do you mean he won.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
That?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
He won that.
Speaker 6 (16:54):
He has now taken Nicole apart, psychologically abused her, beat
her down emotionally, and now she will come back and
depend on him instead of continuing to date Keith. He
probably thought that.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
So basically, he's like a dog that comes in and
TETs on everything that he thinks is his.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
Exactly that's exactly what he did. That's how he asserted
the dominant. He lifted his leg and then he was
happy and he left because her house was his Territory. Nancy.
I used to live in Brentwood between Nicole was just
to the south of me and O. J. Simpson on
Rockingham was just to the north. So I know that
area very very well. It is super quiet at four
(17:38):
in the morning. Brentwood is such kind of like a
sleepy community, but it's a very wealthy enclave. So her
house where it was located, it was almost like walking
distance between the house and Metsaluna where Rob where Ron
Goldman worked, and so it was it was a place
(17:58):
where there was a lot of visits ability. She and
I went to the same hair salon and the same
nail salon, and the girls in there will talk about
the fact that she would come in with bruises on
her face and on her arms. She lived her life
being stalked and being beaten.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
That that was just her life. Very disturbing.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
And even though I prosecuted, by the time I got
domestic violence cases as they are called euphemistically, somebody was
dead or had had an aggravated assault or aggravated battery
like lost.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
An eye, lost use of an arm, lost use of
a limb.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
But when I worked at the Battered Women's Center as
a volunteer at night.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
That was for nine years.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
And to hear these women because again by the time
I usually got their cases, they were dead and I
never got to speak to them. But as working the hotline,
I did speak to them and they would be just
totally numb.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It would be just a way of life for them.
You know, that's curious.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Back to you, Keith Zlamzowitch new book stalked it could
have been me. It's interesting the way you described and
I didn't want to interrupt you when you first said
it that you guys were at the Roxbury and you
were having a great time.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Everybody's dancing. Look there's Simpson. Oh what a coinciding there
he is. He's probably been following you the whole night.
And she was like, there he is. See I would
have been shot, like why is he or what? What?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
But she it was just typical another day in Brentwood
for her. There's Ojay stalking her again, Simpson Orenthal, James
Simpson turning up again wherever she was.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It was just routine for her at that point. She
was numb to it.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I mean, by the way you described it, she wasn't
shocked or afraid.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
There he is like a bad penny.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
And we were getting used to it, to be honest
with you, because this was the third or fourth time
that he approached Does in public. And they had had
an agreement that if they both showed up at the
same place, the first one there was allowed to stay,
the second one there if they saw the other person
would leave. He never abided by that, obviously, but he
(20:10):
knew where we were going because the times that he
would show up would be just too uncanny. So we
knew that we were either being followed or were being
ratted out by someone as to where our destination would be.
So he knew exactly where to go, where to find us,
and that includes that night we had gone to a
comedy show first before we went to Roxbury to go dancing.
(20:32):
We get into Roxbury and there he is, We leave
Roxbury and what you do follows us home. So there
was a pattern.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
This is about it. I mean they even had an
agreement in place.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Hey, when we both show up at the same place
at the same time, the one who got their first
gets to stay. So obviously this had happened so many
times they had to come up with some type of
an agreement A truce of sorts.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Another thing that you just mentioned that you think other
people could have been riting you out. I started to say,
hold on, Slammy, wait a minute, don't make this a
big conspiracy that didn't happen. But you know, when it
comes to Simpson, he had so many followers and so
many hangers on and so many friends, it's entirely possible
(21:32):
that they would call me and go, hey, your wife's here,
although they were completely separated at that point.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Guys, it didn't end there. Listen.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Keith meets Nicole Aspen, Colorado. Zlimzowitch is director of operations
for Metsaluna Restaurant chains California locations and Aspen. Keith returns
to Los Angeles and he and Nicole begin dating. Keith
and Nicole constantly under attack as Simpson stocks and harrasses
the couple. During a dinner out in Metsalona and Brentwood,
Keith and Nicole mortified to see Simpson pull up in
(22:08):
front of the restaurant.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
Nicole was there, Keith was there. The defendant suddenly showed up,
drove up in front of the restaurant, got out of
the car, walked up to the table where there was
seated and put his hands on and said, I'm O. J. Simpson,
and she's still my wife when she filed for divorce
and moved out of his house.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
That was intimidate.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
No one over here now and the three two, five,
GrITT and a green.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
He's back, Timplon, I.
Speaker 8 (22:38):
Think you know his records be over here, throwing him over.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
What kind of cardie? He's in a white cronkle, always looking.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
To her here.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
The nine on one calls escalate, escalate, escalate.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Nothing was ever done, and now she's dead joining us
tonight a man that truly loved her and that she loved.
In return, Keith Slums, which new book stalked it could
have been me, and he's totally right.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I want to look very quickly at what we were
just viewing.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And that's Darden's argument to the jury because I want
to watch Simpson. This is Darden describing another incident where
Simpson shows up where Nicole and Keith are.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Let's watch.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
That's a messalone.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
Nicole was there, Keith was there. The defendant suddenly showed up,
drove up in front of the restaurant, got out of
the car, walked up to the table where there was
seated that put his hands on and said, I'm OJ Simpson,
and she's still my wife when she filed for divorce
and moved out of his house.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
That's what I wanted to say. That's what I want
to see.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
When Darden says she filed for divorce and moved out
of the house, He's like, did you see that? I mean?
And another thing I've noticed when I was watching him
during the trial and Keith, you were called as a
witness for both the state and the defense, so I'm
going to get into but I notice every time it
got sticky for Simpson, he would.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Like suddenly start writing notes. I would have loved to
see those notes. I did it come in get me.
But he would look away from the journey start writing notes.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So I would always know when I was watching the
trial at the time that whatever was happening that would
make Simpsons act like he was taking legal notes was
something that was damaging to the defense.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I want to move forward. Guys, listen to this.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
After the incident at Metzaluna, when Keith refuses to back
down to Simpson, Nicole opens up and shares her life
of abuse with Simpson. As the couple continues to date,
Simpson stalks Keith and Nicole wherever they go, showing up
at every restaurant in the nightclub, hiding in bushes and
watching through windows, making it impossible for Nicole to have
(24:58):
a romantic relationships.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Keith Zlamzowitch, author of a brand new book, Stalked It
could have been me?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Keith, when did she first tell you that Simpson had
been beating her for years?
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Very early on? Actually, when I got to Los Angeles
and we started the dating thing, we became and as
these incidents of stalking started to present themselves, we were
living it in real time, so we had this sort
of bond. She understood I was going through the same
thing she had gone through in the past, So she
(25:34):
started to tell me about certain incidents between them, beatings,
you know, control, all his possessiveness, personal stuff that I
think she felt at that time because we had a
bond from what we were going through together, so she
opened up about everything, and I think she opened up
more to me than she did to a lot of people,
(25:55):
maybe even some of her family. You know, she wasn't
very proud of of some of the stuff that had
happened to her in the past. So some of the
stuff she kept inside she shared with me because we
were living it in real time. She also was visiting
a psychologist at the time. We used to almost laugh
about it because the psychologist gave her a book entitled
(26:16):
something to the effect Women Who Love Men who Hate Them.
And I remember she used to have that book at
the house and she'd read from it and talk to
me about it a little bit, and she was trying
to figure out what it was that kept her with
him all those years.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
At the hands of it did that Nicole Brown was
not proud of things that had happened to her.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
Like what.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Like beatings. I described some of them in the book.
There are times when they'd be on a trip together,
a business trip, and he'd leave the room and he'd
come back and she'd know that he was with another woman,
and she would confront him and she'd be beaten and
locked in a closet. That happened more than once, and
she told me about those. So obviously she wasn't very
(27:04):
proud that she was still around after some of those incidents.
But it was her family, it was the children, it
was the thought of having that family unit together that
kept her around all those years and ultimately led to
the reconciliation. The failed reconciliation that cost her her life.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Leads me to another ship got back with. Did her
family encourage her to stay with Simpson.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
No, I don't believe that. I know that they liked OJ. Initially.
OJ was very charming. There were two Ojs and this
is something she told me directly. There's two OJ Simpson's Keith.
There's the public one that everybody sees, and there's a
private one that only I see. And you don't never
want to be left alone with the private one because
(27:52):
you don't know what he's capable of. I mean, we
had that conversation. So I think the family thought OJ
was a nicer guy than he really was. I mean,
they were aware a few incidents. Obviously, Denise testified to
several domestic violence incidents that Nicole told her about. But
I can't get in the middle of the family dynamic
(28:13):
and tell you exactly what they were thinking. But I
know Denise, you know, was witnessed to from Nicole telling
her several incidents.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Did they take money from Simpson her family?
Speaker 4 (28:28):
I don't know that they took money. I know that
it's widely reported that they helped Nicole's father with I
believe it was a hurtz rent a car franchise that
you know, he ultimately made some money. What from so
I think that happened. I never heard anything like he
you know, provided them with cash for a house or
(28:49):
anything like that. And I don't think that was the case.
I mean, lou and Judy were salt of the earth
people they met well.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, you know what, I think they stood.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
For the door that people make those claims against her
family to somehow, I mean I see it all the time.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Somehow blame the victims. It's their fault.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
They were leeches, they took money, they encouraged it, and ooh, he.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Lost his temper and killed her.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
It's just total crap, Doctor Bethany Marshall, this brings up
another issue, if you could touch on it very quickly.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Why is it the woman feels ashamed of what quote.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Happened to her. It's like ooh, a trip that happened
to me. No, it didn't happen to her. Someone physically
assaulted her, beat her to a pulp, and would lock
her in the closet, which is a new to us.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
That's something I didn't know would lock her in a closet.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Now, look again, that's a trial lawyer, but that means
something to lock somebody in a closet.
Speaker 6 (29:56):
Well, he again, he wanted total control and dominance over her,
So to locker in a closet is to have her
all for himself and also to terrify her and discourage
her from interacting with other people. Nancy, this self blame
that victims do. I think of it as a crisis
of boundaries, meaning the victim knows that something is severely
(30:18):
wrong with the perpetrator. The perpetrator is disregulated, obsessed, self preoccupied,
relating to the victim through power instead of love and affection.
But the victim feels that it's her job to fix it,
and if she can't fix it, then she has failed
in some way. In some ways, these men pull the
(30:39):
women in kind of a mothering role. That becomes the
woman's job to keep the man's world safe and predictable,
to make him okay. So when she can't do it,
when that task breaks down, she then falls into self blame. Also,
there's so much humiliation going on, Nancy, it's almost like
(30:59):
a form of brain where she begins to feel that
she's a failure, because you hear.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
What she said to Keith that there were two ojs
when everybody sees in public and the one that she
sees in private. I have seen that in court. Of course,
by the time I get it, it's a domestic homicide.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
But no one would ever think this guy was the devil.
The devil when he's alone with the woman at home.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
He's so charming and charismatic, some people even think attractive physically.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
It could not be more of a dichotomy, you.
Speaker 6 (31:40):
Know, Nancy, I thought of sociopathy, right, the personality disorder
of being a sociopath when Keith was talking about this,
because one of the criterias is that the sociopath has
a thin veneer of affability. They're charming, they're outgoing because
of how people really tend to like them. At the
(32:00):
minute they get their feelings hurt or they feel diminished,
minimized in some way, that veneer cracks, and what you
see underneath is a very cold, calculated interior. So he
was calculating, probably for a long long time, how he
was going to put a stop to all of this,
(32:22):
and we know especially.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
You get what we're doing tonight, right.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I'm not only talking about your new book Stalked, but
I'm trying to tell and I want you to help
me tell it along with Bethany to other women.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
They think nobody's gonna believe me. This is somehow my fault.
I screwed up. I don't want my family to know.
I'm gonna wear a high neck and long sleeves and
long pants. I don't want anybody to see the bruises.
I don't want my children to know. I don't want
to mess up, mess up my family. I don't want
to do that. It's all technical, legal term crap bs.
(33:00):
They will be beaten. It statistically will not get better.
It won't. It will get worse. I don't like being
the harbinger of doom, but.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
I know what the statistics tell me, and the woman
will live through it for the rest of her life
if she stays, and even worse, the children will see it,
hear it.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Mommy's a whoreror, mommy's a bitch, and they will grow
up numb to that and think it's okay.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
The girl growing up will end up with a man
that beats her Statistically and the boy growing up. He
starts off like a little angel will grow up to
beat someone.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Statistically, this is true. You've got to tell this story, Keith.
Do you hear me?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
You hear you? And that's part of the reason I
wrote the book. Over the years, certainly since the advent
of social media, I've been reached out to by numerous
women around the country and some overseas that followed the story,
followed Nicole in my plight and appreciated what I did
to try to defend her and pick up for her.
(34:10):
Made a lot of I've helped a lot of women
out of circumstances where they've come to me and said,
you know, you gave me the strength to get out
of this relationship when I didn't think I had that,
and I'm still friends with some of them to this day.
So I wanted this to be a sort of wake
up call for some women who are going through this
right now as we speak, who may be watching this,
(34:30):
to know that it doesn't change. Guys like that are
going to be like that. They do not change. When
OJ tried his reconciliation with Nicole fifteen months after I
had met her and we had been so close during
that time, he took her away to Mexico. She was
at her parents' house for Easter weekend, I believe it was,
(34:52):
and he knew she would be there, so he showed
up unannounced, uninvited, and tried to convince her he had
been to therap, he had changed, he was a new man,
and he swept her away to Mexico to spend some
time together to try to get her back. She fell
into it, and you know, sadly, all Nick really wanted
was her family. She wanted that family unit together, and
(35:15):
we talked about this many times, and she fell back
into his trap of I've changed, let me show you
how good I can be. And she called me and
we had long talks about it, and she decided she
was going to give it a try. And that's when
our incredible friendship that we had developed came to an
end because he never got over me. And then fast
(35:36):
forward to October that year when the nine to one
one tape occurs. Something else you have to remember is
he did all this in front of the children. He
belittled Nicole over the year and a half about making
love to me with the children in the house. That
was his big thing. Look what you did. The kids
are here, Look what you did. You're trash, You're dirty,
(35:57):
You're filthy. All the things he said to make her
feel that way. But look at the facts. He kicked
in the door and threatened to beat her when the
children were there. He killed her and Ron Goldman when
the children were there and the door was open and
they were sleeping right upstairs. And if they hadn't found
those bodies, the children would have woken up. Tommy was
(36:22):
Keith your father?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
And women out there are looking at Nicole Brown, you know,
before she was murdered by Simpson, thinking oh, she's so beautiful,
she's so glamorous, she's so perfect.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
She's got this perfect life, this beautiful home, gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Home children Simpson, and they think, you know, why can't
I have a life like that?
Speaker 1 (36:46):
And the reality is abuse, And that seems to be
sugarcoating it. I mean, downright beatings.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Breaking arms, noses, blood gushing out of your mouth, losing teeth.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
That's the reality.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
And if it could happen to someone like Nicole Brown,
it can happen to anybody.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Speaking of the other O. J. Simpson, take a lesson
someone over here now three two five.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Britton agree, he's that?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Please?
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (37:18):
What does okay, Jimpson?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
I think you know his record?
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Over here?
Speaker 3 (37:23):
What is he doing here?
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Over?
Speaker 1 (37:29):
He's in a white bronc Broke.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
Wait a minute.
Speaker 6 (37:34):
What's your name?
Speaker 4 (37:36):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (37:36):
Is either sports Canter or whatever?
Speaker 6 (37:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (37:39):
Okay, wait a minute?
Speaker 4 (37:41):
What is he? Is?
Speaker 9 (37:48):
Mister Simpson kissing Denise Brown? Because mister Dtha Brown, it
is mister Lewis. Brown's talking to a friend Rex his
son Justin let me kisses.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
After Sydney's dance recital, Nicole, the children, and her family
leaves Simpson behind at the school and go to dinner
with friends at Metzaluna in Brentwood. Nichole's mother accidentally leaves
her glasses behind, and Ron Goldman, a friend of Nicole
who works at the restaurant, volunteers to drop the glasses
off at Nichole's house. Goldman leaves Metsaluna at nine forty
five pm.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
Non invited to family dinner at Mezzaluna, Simpson grabs McDonald's
with his house guest, Kayln Cato. The pair returned to
Simpson's home around nine forty pm. Around ten forty pm, Kayln,
here's several thumps outside his room and goes to investigate,
but gets distracted by the limo waiting outside Simpson's gate,
hired to take him for the airport.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Closing arguments by my former co anchor Johnny Cochran's from
our friends at Court TV. And you know what they're
doing right there at Keith's Lumsawitch, author of a brand
new book, stalked Cochrane, brilliant, great trial lawyer. You'd have
a jury eating out his hand. He's portraying Simpson as
being charming and in with the family. That Simpson kissed Denise,
(39:08):
he kissed JUDITHA, he kissed mister Brown, picks up his
son Justin, his son with Nicole and kisses him.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Oh what a great family guy. They all love him.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I know exactly what Johnny Cochrane, god rest Is Soul
is doing.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
This guy would never look at him. The whole family
loves him. He wasn't beating Nicole Bs, Yes he was.
That's from Court TV, Keith. That's what Cochrane is doing
right there. He's a puppet master.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Absolutely, But that goes back to what I was saying earlier.
There's two O. J.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Simpsons.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
He's in public. There he's around the kids, he's around
the family. So you're gonna see that O. J. Simpson,
You're not going to see the private one. That was
the one who beat Nicole and the one who stalked
us and followed us and made our life possible to
be together and miserable. So it just goes right into
what I was saying about the ches.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Is all of this is happening the night Nicole and
Ron are murdered. There was the piano recitaled, and the
family goes to Messaluna after he's not invited, and his
rage begins to build, and this is where it ends.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Listen a neighbor's seas Nicolls white Akita Cato wandering the
neighborhood alone, barking, agitated, and on closer inspection they notice
he has bloody pause.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Crime Stories with Nancy Gray.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
A neighbors seas Nicolls, white Akita Cato wandering the neighborhood alone, barking, agitated,
and on closer inspection they notice he has bloody Pause.
The neighbor follows Cato to investigate, discovering Nicole and Ron's
bodies at twelve ten am.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Wondering the neighborhood covered in blood.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Nichole's blood, her head practically cut off her body in
the front yard, but no one believes Simpson could have
done it.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
We know he hides in the bushes and stalks her home.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
He sees Ron Goldman. He thinks, Oh, they're the whores
with another man. I'm sure that's what he was thinking.
Nothing could have been further from the truth, so Lapd
heads to Simpson's home.
Speaker 7 (41:34):
Detectives, Furman, and Fanatter go to simpsons nearby home to
notify him of his wife's death. Furman sees what appears
to be bloodstains on Simpson's Ford Bronco and decides to
jump the fence to gain access to Simpson's property. Fanatter
declares Simpson's home a crime scene and goes to secure
a search warrant for the house around seven am.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Simpson leaves home at eleven ten PM to catch an
eleven forty five flight to Chicago, lands by thirty am,
backing into the O'Hare Plaza hotel. At six fifteen. Seven am,
detectives inform Simpson of the murders over the phone and
ask him to return to La Simpson flies back June
thirteenth and his handcuffed. On arrival, Simson his question for hours,
an investigator's photograph.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
On his bronco cut on his hand. How did this
guy walk free?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
And then there's the NFMUS slow speed chase for Simpson
basically holds himself hostage.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Remember that, because I'll never forget it.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
What are you reporting?
Speaker 1 (42:35):
One?
Speaker 3 (42:36):
I have in the car?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Okay, where are you free? I'm coming up to five freeways.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Okay, right now, we all we allkay, but.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
You gotta sell a brass back off. He still laughs.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
He's got to go through his hair.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Okay, hold on a minute, Micah, let me hold on
a moment.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
There's everything else, Okay, everything right now, go everything.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
That's all.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
That's all. We have got.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Something, all right.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
I cannot believe the arrogance of these two. You know
who I am?
Speaker 7 (43:21):
What?
Speaker 1 (43:22):
No, the dispatcher does not know who you are.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Callings for your first two initials, and he says he's
going to his mother's.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
This guy murder two people?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Why is he even out walking around on bonds holding
himself hostage?
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (43:38):
No, anybody else they would have police would have overtaken,
gotten them out of that car and put them face
down on the ground.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
But no, not Simpson. And it all culminates in this.
Speaker 7 (43:54):
Matter people versus Orienthal James Simpson. You plead to count
one and two.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
Absolutely what Simson is.
Speaker 10 (44:07):
This is oj Simpson's one day in court by your decision,
control of his very life in your hands. Treat you carefully,
treated fairly, be fair, don't be part of this continuing
cover up. Do the right thing, remembering that if it
(44:29):
doesn't fit, you must acquit.
Speaker 8 (44:31):
In the matter of the People of the State of
California versus Orenthal James Simpson, Case number b A zero
ninety seven two one one, we the jury and the
ambolved and title action find the defendant or Orenthal James Simpson,
not guilty of a crime of murder in violation of
penal cult Section one eighty seven a A felony upon
Nicole Brown Simpson our.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Forends a Court TV. Were you surprised at the verdict?
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Keith, Yes, Now I was concerned that the jury was
going to buy into Johnny Cochrane's both for the lack
of a better word, but I wasn't over it.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
You were actually a pall bearer. You carried Nichole's coffin.
What was going through your mind? You knew he murdered her.
Speaker 4 (45:28):
This is almost a surreal, out of body experience. You
got to remember the murders took place on a Sunday night,
Monday morning. The funeral was on a Thursday. It was
so lightning speed. I flew out there immediately. The family
asked me if i'd be a ballbearer. I didn't see
them because I flew into Los Angeles the night before.
So the first interaction I had face to face with
(45:51):
the Brown family was as holding the basket at the funeral.
And that's when one of the sisters came up to
me and said, do you realize what we were talking
about that night? And I said, no, I don't, She
said you she was talking about Surprise and Aspen. So
imagine my heartbreak. I hadn't spoken in Nicole for six
(46:14):
months or so, since that infamous nine one one call
where we weren't allowed to speak anymore because of OJ
still loving her, still thinking about her every day. She's dead,
she's gone. I'm holding her casket. I'm standing two feet
away from the guy I know in my heart and
mine murdered her. And I'm told that she was thinking
(46:35):
about me the night she was murdered. I was. I
can't even tell you the emotions that went through me
at that point. So it was crazy. And then as
we went down to the burial site, I actually had
to stand next to oj Simpson almost elbow to elbow
for an hour or whatever time it took to read
(46:56):
the rites of Passage and everything that took place down there,
knowing what had happened, and having to stand next to him.
So just imagine my emotions during that whole thing.
Speaker 7 (47:07):
It was.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
It's hard to describe. I try to do that in
the book. I do my best job of trying to
walk the reader through exactly what I was feeling in
my emotions. But it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Case you never married after all these.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Years, ever married, never had children. I don't know if
that's strictly because of my relationship with Nicole, but I
never got over it. My life turned into a circus, obviously,
with what was going on. It took me years to
get over that, and I always kept a place for
(47:44):
in my heart and I just never could get that
attached to anyone else from that point on. So I'm
pushing sixty five now, I'm still single, and I have
a lot of great memories, but this tragic event shaped
my life, my entire adult or not.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I know exactly how you feel.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
I know you do it.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
This book is amazing.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
I'm so honored that you joined us, Keith, this book
Stalked it could have been me, And there's just so
much more to say beyond what we've talked about tonight,
even beyond.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
What's in your book.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Just I'm very grateful for you shining a light on
this plague in our world of women being abused so
horribly and ending up dead and their children destined to
repeat the pattern. Stalked it could have been me. Tonight,
(48:52):
we remember all the women who proceeded and followed Nicole Brown,
victims to domestic violence. Not just them, but they're children
victims as well. And we honor the women that find
(49:14):
the strength to speak out. They are all our American heroes.
Nancy Gray signing off, Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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