January 21, 2026 • 43 mins
"Little House on the Prairie" alum, Melissa Gilbert, sobs in court during hubby Timothy Busfield's pretrial detention hearing in Bernalillo County, New Mexico.
Emmy Award winner Timothy Busfield is now released from the New Mexico jail, pending trial for child sex abuse charges. Busfield is accused of inappropriately touching two 11-year-old twin boys while directing episodes of the hit TV show, "The Cleaning Lady."
When Busfield joins the cast as an actor and director, he tells the boys to call him "Uncle Tim." The alleged inappropriate action happens on multiple occasions, and parents of the boys say Busfield masks the inappropriate touching as "play."
One of the boys, "SL," states that he was touched on his intimate parts over his clothing. The parents say SL wakes up scared from nightmares and is diagnosed with Post-Traumatic-Stress Disorder (PTSD), due to about Busfield touching him.
Allegations surface that one of the boys withdrew from the set and didn't want to go as much as before. The child actors accused Timothy Busfield of touching them inappropriately while working on the TV show, "The Cleaning Lady," told a totally different story when they first talked to investigators.
Asked directly and specifically if they knew about private areas on their body that no one can touch, and both boys say "yes." When asked if Timothy Busfield ever touches their "privates," both boys answer "no."
Lawyers for Busfield say he passed an independent polygraph and is innocent of all charges.
Joining Nancy Grace:
- Chris Melcher - Celebrity Lawyer and Partner at Walzer Melcher & Yoda with deep experience in complex family law litigation, website: WalzerMelcher.com
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away," and featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive
- Jessica Finn - Senior Investigative Reporter at The U.S. Sun; jessicafinnnyc (X/ IG) @jessicafinn.bsky.social (Bluesky)
- Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Little House on the Prairie
star sobs in court over sex charges. I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Timothy Busfield, a well known actor, director, and producer, now
finds himself not behind the lens, but directly in front
of it, facing disturbing allegations that threatened to redefine his
public image.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
We all know who Melissa Gilbert is, the star of
Little House.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
On the Prairie that ran for years and years and years.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
People watched her grow up and here she is now.
But many people didn't recognize the name Timothy Busfield. But
I beck you recognize this quiz show, Field of Dreams,
Revenge of the Nerds, Wow Bloods, Striking Distance, Lizzie McGuire, Entourage,
(01:05):
Sleepy Hollow, Matt Locke, the Client List, West Wing, Lois
and Clark, Joan of Arcadia, Stripes. It goes on and
on and on. This is Us, Graceland, FBI Most Wanted.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I've got rings of titles.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Timothy Busfil connected to all of these hits there he
is now a famous, famous actor director, now brought in
court in shackles after.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
This at least ten heavily armed US marshals from the
New York Regional Task Force gather at the upstate home
of award winning actor director Timothy Busfield. The agent's wearing
helmets and protective gear, use a battering ram to reach
the door, gaining access to the home, not knowing what
they will find as the property is searched for evidence.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
That from our friends at Daily Mail, and you see
the use of a battering ram, which is very, very unusual.
To Chris Melcher joining US high profile celebrity lawyer partner
Wolveser Melcher.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Question to you, Melcher, how often.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Have you seen a battering ram used to get to
a defendant.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
The battering ram seems excessive, but I have definitely seen
it in my practice when law enforcement enters a home,
which is an inherently dangerous thing to do.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Guys, you're seeing a shot from our friends at the
Daily Mail. This is when in full tactical gear LA
law enforcement descends on the upstate New York home of
Little House on the Prairie star Melissa Gilbert and husband
actor director Timothy Bussfield. As you heard earlier, not knowing
what would be inside, they batter the door down that
(03:04):
from our friends at Daily Mail, which leads us to
now tonight, in the last hours, Busfeld in a court
in New Mexico, answering up to charges of child sex abuse.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Now in court, the argument in.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Court that this whole child sex abuse claim is fabricated
over revenge. Okay, joining me and all star panels straight
out to Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter at the US
Sun on the story from the very beginning, Jessica, thank
you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
What is she talking about? Revenge?
Speaker 6 (03:46):
So the boys were basically taking off the show sometime
in early twenty twenty four, and apparently the parents were
very upset about this. It sounds like from the description
of what the defense attorney Amber was saying, is that
the boys had basically aged out, Like the role was
only over the course of a couple of years, and
(04:07):
the boys had suddenly between COVID and other like delays
in filming, the boys had basically aged out, and so
they decided to replace them with younger actors, and so
it was, you know, they were off the show and
then all the way in November of twenty twenty four
is the first time we hear an allegation that Timothy
(04:27):
had allegedly done something untowards towards the boys.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Dave mac uh, maybe I need to check my if
they hear Dave mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter.
But does a witness state that the boy's mother said,
upon learning the boys the twin boys, were not going
to be brought back to the set, I'm going to
get his ass.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Did she say that? According to a witness.
Speaker 7 (04:52):
Nancy, the lead actress of this series is the one
who is they say actually overheard that the mother of
the twins said we're going to get rid of that.
We are going to get his ass.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Okay, we're going to get to the claims in just
a moment. The actual claims in an indictment that looks
bad and apparently the judge bought into it, you know,
to veteran defense attorney Chris Melcher joining US, Chris, going
into a case where you do not have forensic evidence,
(05:30):
you don't have DNA, you don't have a fingerprint, you
don't have a confession, and you don't.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Have an eyewitness. What you do have is a victim.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And if your victim can be attacked, and remember these
were little boys, and the mother allegedly said, I'm going
to get his ass for not bringing my children back.
That could be a mortal blow to the state's case.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Absolutely, Nancy, I'm really surprised that this case was even
filed just based on the Affidavid that was that was
presented to the court and the information that's come out
now is devastating, and it just seems to me that
he's innocent and that I don't really believe this case
(06:15):
is long for the world. I'm not based on what
we're seeing.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Well, isn't it true, Chris Melcher, that that's what you're
paid to think. You're a defense attorney and you are
paid to state my client citizen, Just yes, No, isn't
that what you're paid to do.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Well, it's the harsh true.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
As a defense attorney. Yeah, but as a citizen here
just reviewing this information, there is no reasonable prospect that
the prosecutor can secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt in.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
My mind, all on this moment.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
You do know, Melcher about similar transactions claims of abuse
on teens and young people dating back to nineteen ninety five,
For you think all that.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Those aren't that didn't happen either.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Those aren't really similar, There's no way.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So it always happens to younger individuals sixteen years old,
seventeen years old. It often happens in relation to a
TV or movie set. There is always a position, like
(07:28):
a fiduciary position. For instance, he is in charge and
the other person is coming to audition or to try
out or to be mentored. So I see a lot
of similarities, but I do agree a case in chief
(07:49):
must stand on its own. The similar transactions are to
corroborate or bolster your case in chief.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
So who are we going to believe? Could all be true?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Could the mother be held bent on revenge and the
boys be telling the truth. There's problems with that too.
This case is riddled with problems. That doesn't mean it
didn't happen. But straight back out to Jessica Finn joining us.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
What is Fayerburgh saying.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
She's saying that what one of the boy's parents was
a lawyer that had been disbarred and that they were
running out of money. Explained to me what she's arguing
to the judge.
Speaker 6 (08:29):
So she is essentially saying that these boys parents are
scam artists. She is telling the judge that they have
a history of a nefarious behavior, both the father and
the mother, and she's arguing that essentially these parents have
put these boys up to making these allegations against Tim Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Okay, Dave mac Crime Stories, what can you tell us
about claims that one of the parents is a disbarred lawyer.
Speaker 7 (08:56):
That would be the father. Nancy. His name's Ronald Rhodis
defends the herny that actually played guilty in twenty seventeen
to a federal charge of conspiracy to commit wire fraud.
He was accused in a multi million dollar scheme depriding
over fifteen hundred homeowners. That's just the dad. Mom's not
(09:17):
and it's an either.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
She ain't smelling like a rose. Tonight, Crime Stories with
Nancy Grace to dtor Bethany Marshall joining us renownedd psychoanalyst
joining us out of LA, author of deal Breaker. You
(09:40):
can see her now on Peacock and you can find
her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Dr Bethany, I've had
to argue to a jury that a prostitute can be raped,
a prostitute can be ag assaulted, a prostitute can be armed, robbed.
(10:01):
I have had to argue that a dopeaddict can be murdered,
that it's still a murder no matter who.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
The victim is.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
All the victims that I represented in inner city Atlanta
for a decade, I can promise you they were not
nuns and priests and virgins.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Can we just put that out there right now? And
I would have to tell the.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Jury up front, you're gonna hear this, this, and this,
but that does not mean a crime didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
But I got to tell you something. These parents, that's sadoozi.
You got the Did you hear what Dave mac just said?
He's right? Yes. When I hear lawyer disbarred, I'm like,
what what?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Because Bethany and Melcher, I'm sure you're gonna agree.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I don't know if you'll admit it or not. But
to get thrown out of the bar.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
You have to do a lot to get thrown out
of the bar.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I mean a lot. He's disbarred.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I mean and it was a fraud case, which is
critical here because when you don't know a horse, Bethany,
you look at the track record. Dad thrown out of
the bar for fraud and now the device is claiming
this is a fraud for money. It doesn't smell good.
It doesn't smell good at all. And I don't expect
(11:24):
victims to be angels.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I never get an angel victim. No, but this is bad.
Speaker 8 (11:31):
Or you can be a sex predator but also not
be guilty of predating on two victims you're accused of,
you know, Nancy. Instead of thinking about who's right and
who's wrong, Timothy Bustfield or the parents, how about thinking
about it as a group of people who acted something
out together. So again, this is made up. I don't
(11:51):
know Timothy bust Build. But let's say the parents are
very angry that the boys are no longer hired for
the show. They get wind that Timothy Busfield is potentially predatory,
and because of that, it entices them to set him
up as having molested the boys. And in that case,
(12:14):
you can see that all the adults in this scenario
acted something out together. Or if Timothy Busfield did indeed
molest these boys, he may have come up with formidable
opponents who are actually looking for an opportunity for a shakedown.
So I don't think this is going to be an
(12:34):
one's an angel and one's a devil. I think this
is going to be adults colluding with each other in
a very terrible way, with two little boys victimized, being
used as ponds by probably all parties involved.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
But at what juncture. First of all, I'm trying to
imagine a mom and a dad not destitute. I mean,
one's got a law degree. It can go work, well,
we can. He's disbarred, he can be a mediator.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Right, Melcher.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Even lawyers that have been disbarred and go perform mediations,
right and make a good living at it too.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Yes, No, yes, And he was making a lot more
money off of their kids.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Good point.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
So what I'm saying is, Bethany, I've got to imagine
a scenario of two parents, a mother and a father,
going along with using their children as pawns and fabricating
a sex molestation.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Now, this was not a full on rape of a child.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
This was allegations that children were fondled over their clothes
all right in their private parts.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Which the reason I bring that up.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Molestation is molestation is molestation. But it's harder to prove
a fondling because you have no physical evidence.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
When you have a full on.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Attack, you will probably get physical evidence from the child's body.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
We don't have that here.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
But I'm trying to imagine a scenario, bethany where a
mom and a dad would put their children up to
pretend that.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
They're sex victims. That is dark.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
That is able because the rest of their lives are
going to remember, Hey, my mom and dad, they told
me to say this so we could get some money.
Speaker 8 (14:23):
I mean, Nancy, I have a lot of adults in
my practice who were once child actors, and a good
number of them were used as ponds by their parents
and their money was taken. You know, Nancy, if the
parents are already monetizing their children in one way as actors,
it would be interesting to know if they're willing to
(14:43):
cross that line and monetize their children in other ways.
Parents use their children all the time. We call it exploitation,
interpersonal offending, and yes, it is very very dark. They
could not accept the reality that their boys had aged out.
They wouldn't not have this role forever. But then if
(15:04):
you get a predator on the set who has poor boundaries.
I don't know if Timothy Bussfield is, of course, but
you have a predator, then you have yet another dark
scenario where you have a predator whose parents was eventually
asleep at the wheel.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Bethany, Bethany, before I lose this thought, and I'm going
to go back in the courtroom and I'm going.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
To play audio of the boys.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Okay, But when you said no boundaries, there is evidence
from several witnesses that state that Busfield would come on
the set and he would hug the boys and actually
would like PLoP a kiss on their head. And that's
against protocol.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
And I know that because.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I had to train to go on these scout campouts
with the children and.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
You're not supposed to touch the children ever.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And I was out in the middle of nowhere camping
and a little like ten year old boy came walking
down by himself.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Just crying and nodding and will I'm like, what is wrong, baby?
Come here? And I hugged him.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Another scout Mastercumount went just stop right now, I'm like,
and I unhugged and then remember, you're not supposed touch
no matter what. The little boy was upset, it was
his first night and he wanted to go home.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
That's what happened.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
But you know, when I'm thinking about Busfield walking on
the set and kissing a kid on the face, like
I think, on the forehead. So I don't know how
that will play into this when you're talking about boundaries.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Was that part of a wicked scheme?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Was it just a tiny taste of further exploitation or
is it a natural response to.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Seeing a child you've been working with for a year.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
But when you just imagine how parents could use their
children in some kind of money scheme.
Speaker 8 (16:54):
Well, you know, when you have wealth, power, privilege, you
should know the rules. Timothy Bustfield has been on so
many sets, as you pointed out, so by now he's
well acquainted with the fact that he could potentially be
a target right for people who are disgruntled or angry,
so he knows to watch his p's and q's. There
was one interview with a makeup artist who said that
(17:15):
everybody kind of watched out for Timothy Bussfield because he
had poor boundaries, and she used the word creep. So
I find that interesting that somebody on the else on
the set said.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That Bethany, Bethany, Bethany Bethany, you just raise the hair
on the back of my neck. My intent went because
in every case that I, well, not every but almost
every rape or molestation case that I prosecuted, universally somewhere
in the defendants past. And when I said he was
always so creepy, he was always a weirdo, he was
(17:49):
always a perf whatever adjective they would put in right there.
Just hearing somebody say that, it's like a sixth sense. Okay, Bethany,
are you sitting down?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
You look like you're sitting.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Okay, you may need to lay down. I'm going to
play something for you. Guys, embrace yourself. The defense is
having a field day with this audio of the little
boys when they were little boys.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Listen, you know what's right and wrong?
Speaker 7 (18:16):
Right?
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (18:17):
You know, no when could touch your private areas?
Speaker 8 (18:20):
Yeah, but buddy didn't touch doesn't touch.
Speaker 9 (18:23):
Your private parts? Okay, yeah, and you know what's right
and wrong, right, you know where people can't touch, where
people can't be Yeah, you know that, right? Does Tim
ever do that?
Speaker 8 (18:37):
No, he's never touched me.
Speaker 9 (18:39):
Never touched you, Yeah, in the in like you know,
your private areas, right, never did that?
Speaker 8 (18:49):
Never?
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
You just heard audio police audio that we got from
our friends at TMZ interviewing the two twin boys we're
not saying their names. We're referring to them as the
victory L Love and s Sally ll Love, VL and SL.
(19:13):
That is the original police interview with accusers, and it
sounds like that is a forensic interviewer that establishes with
the child they understand right from wrong and not to
tell stories. Okay, that's just part of the interview where
both boys deny anything happened.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Emmy Award winner Timothy Busfield joins cast as an actor
and director who tells boys to call him Uncle Tim.
Inappropriate action happens on multiple occasions, and parents of the
boys say Busfield masks the inappropriate touching as play. One
boy says he was touched on his intimate parts over
his clothing. The boys are referred to as SL and VL.
The parents say SL wakes up scared from nightmares about
(19:57):
Busfield touching him and is diagnosed PTSD.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Busfield and his wife, actress Melissa Gilbert, live a quiet,
secluded life in their Cat Skills mountainside home until accusations
pull them into public scrutiny.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Even that quiet, secluded life in the cat Skills did
not protect Timothy Busfield from a battering ram just crashing
through his door when he did not come to the door.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
He has now been in court. Take a look at
this video.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
This is what went down and their cat skills refuge.
Take a look everybody in full tac gear. This is
from our friends at Daily Mail. And in the end,
Timothy Busfield is in court now another field day, another
touchdown for the defense. It's when they obtained an audio
(20:50):
recording from the time these claims were first brought they
were originally dismissed. I want you to hear again the
police recording. Listen, we're we've transcribed it for you so
you can see and hear exactly what the boys said
at the time.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
You know what's right and wrong, right, Yeah?
Speaker 9 (21:10):
You know no one could touch your private areas. Yeah.
Speaker 10 (21:14):
Well but buddy didn't touch you, doesn't touch.
Speaker 9 (21:16):
Your private parts, okay, yeah, And you know what's right
and wrong, right. You know where people can't touch, where
people can be Yeah, you know that, right. Does Tim
ever do that?
Speaker 10 (21:30):
No, he's never touched me.
Speaker 9 (21:32):
Never touched you. Yeah, in the in like you know,
your private areas, right, never did that?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Never?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Okay, Okay, that's bad for the state.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I'm just telling you and I'm prone to believe the victims,
but that is going to be extremely damaging on cross examination.
If these boys do take the stand that they're longer boys,
that's my friends at TAMC.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
So how did this whole thing happen? Now?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Years later, after Busfield joins the show as director, the
parents discover there have been allegations against Busfield of sexual
assault against women and miners. The mother asks the boys
if anyone has ever touched them in a manner that
made them feel uncomfortable. The children reply, you mean, like
Uncle Tim. Hearing this, the parents contact a law firm
that recommends taking the children to unmh.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Okay, right there, Doctor Bethany Marshall, It's hard to ask
your children, but I found a way to ask the
children when they were little, starting as young as two
and three, if anybody had ever touched their private parts ever,
front end or back end. And I had learned a
(22:48):
lot from learning about interviewing children forensically.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Which I had to do as a prosecutor.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
And there's a problem here because if the twins, either
one of them, had ever said yeah, I would have
immediately called the hospital and the police. My first thought
would not be to call a lawyer.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
What do you think that is right?
Speaker 8 (23:15):
Here's what I think it could be that the little
boy who's having PTSD and dreams about being touched by
Uncle Tim, actually, in fact, his parents are coaching him
and talking to him about sex and what it's like
when somebody touches your private parts, and that they are
so excited over the prospect of a shakedown, that this
(23:39):
is the biggest topic in the household at this point,
and that it's that conversation that's actually traumatizing this little boy.
I had a family who brought a sixteen year old
to me who had been raped by her best male friend,
who was also sixteen. But they they would invade the
session excitedly talking about the nature of the rape, and
(24:03):
I became aware that actually they were setting up the
other family by continually planting stories in the sixteen year
old's head. She wasn't traumatized by whatever happened with the
other sixteen year old. It's her parents who were traumatizing
her because they just saw a big paycheck at the
(24:24):
end of the day. Now, I don't know for sure
if that's what's happening here, but I would certainly consider
that as a possibility.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
The parents have not been accused of any fraud in
this case at all. For all we know, these claims
could be true, and the parents are doing what they
can for their children.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
That said, they call lawyer and this happens.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Next examining the children, hospital staff advised the parents it
appears their children were groomed and in reference to a
CART exam, an interview of a child by a specialized
forensic interviewer as part of a child Abuse Response Team
KRT protocol. In interviews with both boys, neither child discloses
any sexual contact, but both say Uncle Tim would tickle
(25:12):
them on the stomach and legs and they didn't like it.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Oh, my stars, Chris Melcher, I guess you're.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Just dancing up and down the halls with glee right now,
because here they are in another interview at the hospital
and they're doing a full on cart a CART which
is a specialized exam you do with potential child abuse victims.
Both times, neither child discloses sex contact. They do say quote,
(25:41):
Uncle Tim would tickle them on the stomach and legs
and they didn't like it. Okay, boom bum but um
boom but bum bum bum boom.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
It's lining up for the state. It pays me to
say it. But here is another blow to potential victims.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I
know here's another point of cross exam. I mean, I'm
just looking at it analytically, Melcher, because if I'm preparing
these boys for direct I got to prepare them for
the fact that this hospital staff is going to come.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
In and say he said it didn't happen. You got
to be ready for that.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
If you believe the boys or don't believe the boys,
there's another nail in the coffin.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
Absolutely all this evidence points towards his innocence, and it's exculpatory.
There's there's again, it's it's it's maddening to think that
the prosecutor filed this case to begin with, as you
know they have they have a.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Wait a minute, Melcher, Wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
What if the prosecutor assume has spoken to the boys,
it believes the boys. So what you don't bring a
case just because somebody like Chris Melcher says, I can't
believe they did that. If you believe the victim, then
put the victim up on the stand and give it all.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
You got to go in guns and blazon man.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
No, it's not about believing anyone. It's whether you can
secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. That's an ethical
obligation of the prosecutor that I don't think is being
honored here based on this evidence. Because mal sure, if
you ask a child, a young child, over and over again,
in highly suggestive interviews, potentially by their parents, have you
(27:20):
been abused? Eventually you will get the answer that you're
looking for.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
And it's well, they haven't gotten it yet.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Well, I know the prosecution hasn't spoken to the child
victims now adults, young adults, and they convinced the prosecution
has happened, and the prosecution believes them and believes that
they will carry the day regarding credibility, and they will
win the case. I mean, what you say is reasonably
expect a conviction. They may reasonably expect a conviction based
(27:50):
on the interviews of the alleged victims.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
You don't know that.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
What I'm saying is you got to prep them for
what's going to happen on cross and it ain't pretty
what happens. Then they go to the hospital, they do
the cart interview, hospital staff says, all he did was
tickle them, all right, how does that turn into this?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Listen.
Speaker 11 (28:12):
Police began investigating Busfield in November twenty twenty four, when
an investigator responds to a call from a doctor at
University New Mexico Hospital calling for investigation. The parents take
their boys to the hospital and the mother contacts Child
Protective Services, accusing Busfield of abusing the children. One of
the boys tells police Busfield first touched him inappropriately when
(28:33):
he was just seven, and again when he was eight.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
So Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter the US Sun on
the case from the very beginning. Jessica, So at this juncture,
when a police officer speaks to the boys, they do
say at least one of them says, Timothy Busfield did
touch them either their front end or their back end. Right.
Speaker 6 (28:58):
So there was actually a year between me and the
kids going being brought into the hospital and the hospital
reporting to police that they had believed that the child
the children were being groomed by Timothy, And then a
year later they said he had just tickled us, but
he didn't touch our privates at that point, and so
the police declined to prosecute anything on that, and so
a full year later, now we're talking October of twenty
(29:20):
twenty five, the boys, one of the boys reported to
his counselor at the time allegedly that Timothy had touched
him in the front on his privates and in the
background his privates, and so the counselor, who's a mandated reporter,
called the cops, and that's how the cops came to
this point where we're at, where Timothy has been arrested
because there was an allegation of actual touching maid. Now,
(29:43):
even though it's a full year later, that's yeah, that is.
The prosecution argues that basically, you know, it takes time
for kids to come forward with allegations like this, and
that they were intimidated by Timothy, and they were intimidated
by you know, the police and the art conversations with
police where they denied any kind of touching like this.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Detectives find the children didn't say anything to anyone on
the set even though they didn't like it, because Busfield
was the director and the children are afraid of making
the director angry or getting in trouble. The investigation reveals,
even though Busfield should not have been alone with the children.
Measures preventing such one on one contact were ignored, and
there were times when Buzzfield could have been alone with
(30:24):
the children, in particular SL on the set.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Interviews with personnel on the show reveal how the children
changed after Busfield joined the show. The boys were equally
happy to be in front of the cameras, but after
Busfield joined the show, SL became withdrawn, did not want
to be on set, and VL ended up being used
more than SL. The investigation determines Busfield did not have
the opportunity to be alone with the boys, particularly sl Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
To doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany, that means
something one of the boys became withdrawn and didn't want
to go on the set anymore. There are classic textbook
symptoms of molestation you look for, such as does a
child start wetting the bed? Do their grades drop? Do
they become quiet withdrawn? Sometimes they don't want to eat.
(31:15):
There are many classic symptoms of child molestation.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yes, if you know what to look for.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Not wanting to go to the set anymore when they
previously loved going to the set.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
That's an indicator.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
It's not enough to build a case, and I can
tell you that right now, but it is an indicator.
Speaker 8 (31:32):
Well, the reason that's an indicator, Nancy, is that avoidance
is a primary symptom of trauma. So when little boys
who love to be in front of the camera all
of a sudden don't want to go to set, that's
something you have to pay attention to, you know, Nancy.
Some predators, sex predators or pedophiles are what we call
(31:53):
interpersonal offenders. That means they don't go as far as
fondling the child's gen tolls or groping or molesting, but
they exploit the child emotionally. They have, as I said earlier,
poor boundaries, and they make the child feel like the
child is under their control, and that could be that
(32:15):
could be traumatic as well.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Okay, to the control room.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
You keep showing shots, and Melissa Gilbert, I know what
you're doing.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
She's married to Busfield, and I know what you're doing.
Everyone that works on crime stories knows that.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
As my cases became more and more complex and more
and more upsetting. When I specialized in almost universally homicide, rape,
child molestation, I would watch the Little House in the prairie,
little house on the prairie in the morning, to brace.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Myself to go to court.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
And finally in the end, when it was Serial Killers,
Serial Rapist, Serial Child Molisters, I had to watch two
episodes every morning before I could go to work.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
That said, I'm attached to a little house on the prairie.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So this case is not about Melissa Gilbert, even if
you want to make it about Melissa Gilbert.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
And yes, she was in court, front row, crying, crying,
and while her.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Husband was in custody for some reason, she gives a
tour of her fridge.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
At modern prairie, we always say life is too short
to eat dessert first, take your pick.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Doctor Bethany Marshall neither here nor there when it comes
into the case in chief whether this is going to
actually be a case, But why is she giving a
tour of her fridge while her husband is being charged
with yold lat's station multiple counts.
Speaker 8 (33:58):
She may be trying to normal their household, Nancy. She
may be trying to indicate that she's a nurturing person,
that she believes her husband that this is a warm
and cozy home. It's not a place where a sex
predator lives. But you know, Nancy, something I always tell
my patients when they're about to marry somebody where this
questionable alliance. I say, when you marry a person, you
(34:21):
marry their crimes. Okay, So that's just wisdom I would
impart to everybody. Also, the letter that she wrote to
the court is very loving. She calls her husband a sweet,
sweet husband. But I would say that idealization is necessary
for a good marriage. You have to idealize your partner
(34:42):
a little bit, and when the idealization is gone, the
love is gone. So if he did commit these crimes,
that idealization is going to come crashing down and we're
going to see Okay, we're not going to see a
whole refrigerator anymore.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
I don't care if they have fresh cut flow in
a vase. I don't care if there's real butter in
the fridge, because I have had chime molesters that range from.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Literally the creepy dude in the raincoat to pastors. So
appearances mean nothing to me.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Maybe it means something to this judge because he let
busfill or release on recognizants. Now, this is something that
means something to me a guy off of the set
where the children worked.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Listen to this guy.
Speaker 10 (35:36):
At any given time, if the child was on set,
there was a minimum of ten people there on the
set with them. It's just how it works. There's two cameras,
two camera oppers, two focus ploorers, two boom guys, a
prop person, a hair and makeup person, the studio person
would usually be there, the first assistant director, two dolly grips.
(35:57):
And that's for every take, for every shot, always, especially
with the children, because we had such limited amount of
time with the children.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
That from our friends at TMZ welcome back. We have
heard a lot about what is wrong with the two
little boys now grown and their testimony, their claims of
being abust victims. We've heard a lot about that, But
what about other alleged victims of Busfields.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
It cannot be ignored. Listen.
Speaker 11 (36:27):
Years ago, Sacramento, California, Busfield accused of abuse against a
sixteen year old auditioning for Busfield at Sacramento's B Street Theater.
The teen reports Busfield kissed her, put his hands down
her pants, and touched her privates. Busfield begged the family
not to report to law enforcement if he received therapy,
and the father, who was a therapist himself, thought at
(36:48):
the time that this was the best thing to do.
The father now says the incident changed the trajectory of
his daughter's life and he regrets not having gone to
the police at the time.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Out to Dave Mac, that was a sixteen year old girl.
What else is lurking in Busville's background, you.
Speaker 7 (37:10):
Know, Nancy, We've got the first one we actually know
about was from the set of the movie Little Big League,
where a seventeen year old accused him a bus Field
of taking her back to his trailer, giving her alcohol
and then trying to kiss her and eventually groped her
(37:31):
and tried to rape her in the trailer just off
the set. That actually came front. They ended up settling
it out of court. And that was just like a taste.
She was seventeen. And when you go to the Sacramento
event again, a girl about the same age, and in
that instance they decided they bet stop.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Right there, Dave Mac, let's not call alleged victims.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Event don't say that.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Okay, now, you told me the one about the sixteen
year old girl on Little Big Field.
Speaker 7 (38:07):
Okay, go ahead, Next we've got the one in ninety four,
and then we've got another one in twenty twelve. In
that particular case, a woman said that she went on
a date with Buzzfield and while in the theater he
groped her and assaulted her. That actually went to the police, Nancy.
They sat down and interviewed everything and decided they didn't
(38:29):
have enough evidence to move forward from the attack in
the dark in theater. But that was in twenty twelve.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Now, wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
The nineteen ninety six case involving allegations of a child
sex assault, he paid one hundred and fifty thousand dollars
to settle it. That's a lot of money, Okay, So
Chris Melcher, that gives credence to the current case. We
(38:58):
have a string prior allegations, and on at least one
of those, he settled for one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (39:07):
Well, I don't think that's ever going to see the
light of day in any criminal case, because that's would
be character.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
That that's not character evidence. He entered a settlement to
make the case go away. I don't even know what
you're saying. We're not.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
It's character evidence because they would.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Be trying to transaction.
Speaker 5 (39:28):
That's what it is, Yeah, to try to establish that
he acted in conformity with that alleged a prior incident,
with this prior this current incident. No way that's getting
in c. Harvey Weinstein case where that was reversed, where
they had uncharged.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Okay, you know what I can say. You know what
I am speaking from a place of investigation. I'm trying
to find out what really happened. So one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars settlement on a prior and to Dave Matt,
can I talk to you about Jim Wicka, a former
(40:06):
lawyer who represented a seventeen year old girl who accused
Bussfield of sex harassment in ninety four. What can you
tell me about a judge ordering Busfield to pay up to.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Wicka?
Speaker 7 (40:23):
Well, you know, Wicka actually was the attorney in that case,
the ninety four case with the woman from Little Big
League and Timothy. Buzzfield counter sued his WICCA and the
law firm, saying they damaged him and damaged his character.
(40:43):
So he filed one hundred and fifty thousand dollars lawsuit
against Wicca and his partners, and the judge was just
beside himself and this is ridiculous and tossed everything and
it went back to Timothy Busfield having to pay for
the attorney's fees and everything associated with that case with
that woman, that young lady who actually you know, was
(41:04):
the actual victim in this case.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Okay, So that's where the figure one hundred and fifty
thousand dollars comes from.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
As after the lawyer sued and for defamation to Dave.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Mac how many alleged priors are there against Bussfeld?
Speaker 7 (41:21):
Eight? I believe documented, Nancy, I've seen that number. I
haven't seen every one of those, just a lot of
the ones that we've talked about.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
And Jessica Finn, what can you tell me about Busfield
passing a polygraph a lie detector? Was it a private
le detector set up by his lawyers or is it
a police light detector test?
Speaker 6 (41:42):
So Timothy took a private light detector test in a
really unusual move, while there was a warrned out for
his arrest, and as he was driving two thousand miles
from upstate New York to New Mexico to finally turn
himself in, which again took five full days along the way,
he decided he was going to a lied detective test
about this to I guess help exonerate him or try
(42:04):
and keep him out of jail. And he was of
course held for several days behind bars until the detention
hearing that happened earlier this week. But he did take
a lie detective test that supposedly tells, you know, is
supposed to prove that he did not molest this little boy.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Allegedly, the judge seemingly agrees with the defense.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
He releases Muzzfield are released on own recognisance.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
What is true? What is just? In this case?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
You just heard this judge speaking from the bench, and
our friends at TMZ recorded that, thank you, Harvey Levin.
The search for justice goes on. Are the boys telling
the truth? What about the other alleged victims? What happened
to their cases? And what if anything, does that have
to do with the here and now. If you know
(42:59):
or think you know anything regarding this case, please call
Albuquerque PD. Five zero five eight four three seven eight
six seven five zero five eight four three seven eight
six seven. We remember an American hero, Assistant Chief Johnny Patterson, Verona,
(43:20):
p D. Mississippi, killed in the line of duty after
twenty eight years, leaving behind a distraught and grieving wife
and two sons. American Hero Assistant Chief Johnny Patterson Nancy
Gray signing off goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Little House on the Prairie
star sobs in court over sex charges. I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Timothy Busfield, a well known actor, director, and producer, now
finds himself not behind the lens, but directly in front
of it, facing disturbing allegations that threatened to redefine his
public image.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
We all know who Melissa Gilbert is, the star of
Little House.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
On the Prairie that ran for years and years and years.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
People watched her grow up and here she is now.
But many people didn't recognize the name Timothy Busfield. But
I beck you recognize this quiz show, Field of Dreams,
Revenge of the Nerds, Wow Bloods, Striking Distance, Lizzie McGuire, Entourage,
(01:05):
Sleepy Hollow, Matt Locke, the Client List, West Wing, Lois
and Clark, Joan of Arcadia, Stripes. It goes on and
on and on. This is Us, Graceland, FBI Most Wanted.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I've got rings of titles.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Timothy Busfil connected to all of these hits there he
is now a famous, famous actor director, now brought in
court in shackles after.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
This at least ten heavily armed US marshals from the
New York Regional Task Force gather at the upstate home
of award winning actor director Timothy Busfield. The agent's wearing
helmets and protective gear, use a battering ram to reach
the door, gaining access to the home, not knowing what
they will find as the property is searched for evidence.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
That from our friends at Daily Mail, and you see
the use of a battering ram, which is very, very unusual.
To Chris Melcher joining US high profile celebrity lawyer partner
Wolveser Melcher.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Question to you, Melcher, how often.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Have you seen a battering ram used to get to
a defendant.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
The battering ram seems excessive, but I have definitely seen
it in my practice when law enforcement enters a home,
which is an inherently dangerous thing to do.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Guys, you're seeing a shot from our friends at the
Daily Mail. This is when in full tactical gear LA
law enforcement descends on the upstate New York home of
Little House on the Prairie star Melissa Gilbert and husband
actor director Timothy Bussfield. As you heard earlier, not knowing
what would be inside, they batter the door down that
(03:04):
from our friends at Daily Mail, which leads us to
now tonight, in the last hours, Busfeld in a court
in New Mexico, answering up to charges of child sex abuse.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Now in court, the argument in.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Court that this whole child sex abuse claim is fabricated
over revenge. Okay, joining me and all star panels straight
out to Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter at the US
Sun on the story from the very beginning, Jessica, thank
you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
What is she talking about? Revenge?
Speaker 6 (03:46):
So the boys were basically taking off the show sometime
in early twenty twenty four, and apparently the parents were
very upset about this. It sounds like from the description
of what the defense attorney Amber was saying, is that
the boys had basically aged out, Like the role was
only over the course of a couple of years, and
(04:07):
the boys had suddenly between COVID and other like delays
in filming, the boys had basically aged out, and so
they decided to replace them with younger actors, and so
it was, you know, they were off the show and
then all the way in November of twenty twenty four
is the first time we hear an allegation that Timothy
(04:27):
had allegedly done something untowards towards the boys.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Dave mac uh, maybe I need to check my if
they hear Dave mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter.
But does a witness state that the boy's mother said,
upon learning the boys the twin boys, were not going
to be brought back to the set, I'm going to
get his ass.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Did she say that? According to a witness.
Speaker 7 (04:52):
Nancy, the lead actress of this series is the one
who is they say actually overheard that the mother of
the twins said we're going to get rid of that.
We are going to get his ass.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Okay, we're going to get to the claims in just
a moment. The actual claims in an indictment that looks
bad and apparently the judge bought into it, you know,
to veteran defense attorney Chris Melcher joining US, Chris, going
into a case where you do not have forensic evidence,
(05:30):
you don't have DNA, you don't have a fingerprint, you
don't have a confession, and you don't.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Have an eyewitness. What you do have is a victim.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And if your victim can be attacked, and remember these
were little boys, and the mother allegedly said, I'm going
to get his ass for not bringing my children back.
That could be a mortal blow to the state's case.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Absolutely, Nancy, I'm really surprised that this case was even
filed just based on the Affidavid that was that was
presented to the court and the information that's come out
now is devastating, and it just seems to me that
he's innocent and that I don't really believe this case
(06:15):
is long for the world. I'm not based on what
we're seeing.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Well, isn't it true, Chris Melcher, that that's what you're
paid to think. You're a defense attorney and you are
paid to state my client citizen, Just yes, No, isn't
that what you're paid to do.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Well, it's the harsh true.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
As a defense attorney. Yeah, but as a citizen here
just reviewing this information, there is no reasonable prospect that
the prosecutor can secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt in.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
My mind, all on this moment.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
You do know, Melcher about similar transactions claims of abuse
on teens and young people dating back to nineteen ninety five,
For you think all that.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Those aren't that didn't happen either.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Those aren't really similar, There's no way.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So it always happens to younger individuals sixteen years old,
seventeen years old. It often happens in relation to a
TV or movie set. There is always a position, like
(07:28):
a fiduciary position. For instance, he is in charge and
the other person is coming to audition or to try
out or to be mentored. So I see a lot
of similarities, but I do agree a case in chief
(07:49):
must stand on its own. The similar transactions are to
corroborate or bolster your case in chief.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
So who are we going to believe? Could all be true?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Could the mother be held bent on revenge and the
boys be telling the truth. There's problems with that too.
This case is riddled with problems. That doesn't mean it
didn't happen. But straight back out to Jessica Finn joining us.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
What is Fayerburgh saying.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
She's saying that what one of the boy's parents was
a lawyer that had been disbarred and that they were
running out of money. Explained to me what she's arguing
to the judge.
Speaker 6 (08:29):
So she is essentially saying that these boys parents are
scam artists. She is telling the judge that they have
a history of a nefarious behavior, both the father and
the mother, and she's arguing that essentially these parents have
put these boys up to making these allegations against Tim Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Okay, Dave mac Crime Stories, what can you tell us
about claims that one of the parents is a disbarred lawyer.
Speaker 7 (08:56):
That would be the father. Nancy. His name's Ronald Rhodis
defends the herny that actually played guilty in twenty seventeen
to a federal charge of conspiracy to commit wire fraud.
He was accused in a multi million dollar scheme depriding
over fifteen hundred homeowners. That's just the dad. Mom's not
(09:17):
and it's an either.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
She ain't smelling like a rose. Tonight, Crime Stories with
Nancy Grace to dtor Bethany Marshall joining us renownedd psychoanalyst
joining us out of LA, author of deal Breaker. You
(09:40):
can see her now on Peacock and you can find
her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Dr Bethany, I've had
to argue to a jury that a prostitute can be raped,
a prostitute can be ag assaulted, a prostitute can be armed, robbed.
(10:01):
I have had to argue that a dopeaddict can be murdered,
that it's still a murder no matter who.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
The victim is.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
All the victims that I represented in inner city Atlanta
for a decade, I can promise you they were not
nuns and priests and virgins.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Can we just put that out there right now? And
I would have to tell the.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Jury up front, you're gonna hear this, this, and this,
but that does not mean a crime didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
But I got to tell you something. These parents, that's sadoozi.
You got the Did you hear what Dave mac just said?
He's right? Yes. When I hear lawyer disbarred, I'm like,
what what?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Because Bethany and Melcher, I'm sure you're gonna agree.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I don't know if you'll admit it or not. But
to get thrown out of the bar.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
You have to do a lot to get thrown out
of the bar.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I mean a lot. He's disbarred.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I mean and it was a fraud case, which is
critical here because when you don't know a horse, Bethany,
you look at the track record. Dad thrown out of
the bar for fraud and now the device is claiming
this is a fraud for money. It doesn't smell good.
It doesn't smell good at all. And I don't expect
(11:24):
victims to be angels.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I never get an angel victim. No, but this is bad.
Speaker 8 (11:31):
Or you can be a sex predator but also not
be guilty of predating on two victims you're accused of,
you know, Nancy. Instead of thinking about who's right and
who's wrong, Timothy Bustfield or the parents, how about thinking
about it as a group of people who acted something
out together. So again, this is made up. I don't
(11:51):
know Timothy bust Build. But let's say the parents are
very angry that the boys are no longer hired for
the show. They get wind that Timothy Busfield is potentially predatory,
and because of that, it entices them to set him
up as having molested the boys. And in that case,
(12:14):
you can see that all the adults in this scenario
acted something out together. Or if Timothy Busfield did indeed
molest these boys, he may have come up with formidable
opponents who are actually looking for an opportunity for a shakedown.
So I don't think this is going to be an
(12:34):
one's an angel and one's a devil. I think this
is going to be adults colluding with each other in
a very terrible way, with two little boys victimized, being
used as ponds by probably all parties involved.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
But at what juncture. First of all, I'm trying to
imagine a mom and a dad not destitute. I mean,
one's got a law degree. It can go work, well,
we can. He's disbarred, he can be a mediator.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Right, Melcher.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Even lawyers that have been disbarred and go perform mediations,
right and make a good living at it too.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Yes, No, yes, And he was making a lot more
money off of their kids.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Good point.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
So what I'm saying is, Bethany, I've got to imagine
a scenario of two parents, a mother and a father,
going along with using their children as pawns and fabricating
a sex molestation.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Now, this was not a full on rape of a child.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
This was allegations that children were fondled over their clothes
all right in their private parts.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Which the reason I bring that up.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Molestation is molestation is molestation. But it's harder to prove
a fondling because you have no physical evidence.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
When you have a full on.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Attack, you will probably get physical evidence from the child's body.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
We don't have that here.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
But I'm trying to imagine a scenario, bethany where a
mom and a dad would put their children up to
pretend that.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
They're sex victims. That is dark.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
That is able because the rest of their lives are
going to remember, Hey, my mom and dad, they told
me to say this so we could get some money.
Speaker 8 (14:23):
I mean, Nancy, I have a lot of adults in
my practice who were once child actors, and a good
number of them were used as ponds by their parents
and their money was taken. You know, Nancy, if the
parents are already monetizing their children in one way as actors,
it would be interesting to know if they're willing to
(14:43):
cross that line and monetize their children in other ways.
Parents use their children all the time. We call it exploitation,
interpersonal offending, and yes, it is very very dark. They
could not accept the reality that their boys had aged out.
They wouldn't not have this role forever. But then if
(15:04):
you get a predator on the set who has poor boundaries.
I don't know if Timothy Bussfield is, of course, but
you have a predator, then you have yet another dark
scenario where you have a predator whose parents was eventually
asleep at the wheel.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Bethany, Bethany, before I lose this thought, and I'm going
to go back in the courtroom and I'm going.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
To play audio of the boys.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Okay, But when you said no boundaries, there is evidence
from several witnesses that state that Busfield would come on
the set and he would hug the boys and actually
would like PLoP a kiss on their head. And that's
against protocol.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
And I know that because.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I had to train to go on these scout campouts
with the children and.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
You're not supposed to touch the children ever.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And I was out in the middle of nowhere camping
and a little like ten year old boy came walking
down by himself.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Just crying and nodding and will I'm like, what is wrong, baby?
Come here? And I hugged him.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Another scout Mastercumount went just stop right now, I'm like,
and I unhugged and then remember, you're not supposed touch
no matter what. The little boy was upset, it was
his first night and he wanted to go home.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
That's what happened.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
But you know, when I'm thinking about Busfield walking on
the set and kissing a kid on the face, like
I think, on the forehead. So I don't know how
that will play into this when you're talking about boundaries.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Was that part of a wicked scheme?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Was it just a tiny taste of further exploitation or
is it a natural response to.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Seeing a child you've been working with for a year.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
But when you just imagine how parents could use their
children in some kind of money scheme.
Speaker 8 (16:54):
Well, you know, when you have wealth, power, privilege, you
should know the rules. Timothy Bustfield has been on so
many sets, as you pointed out, so by now he's
well acquainted with the fact that he could potentially be
a target right for people who are disgruntled or angry,
so he knows to watch his p's and q's. There
was one interview with a makeup artist who said that
(17:15):
everybody kind of watched out for Timothy Bussfield because he
had poor boundaries, and she used the word creep. So
I find that interesting that somebody on the else on
the set said.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That Bethany, Bethany, Bethany Bethany, you just raise the hair
on the back of my neck. My intent went because
in every case that I, well, not every but almost
every rape or molestation case that I prosecuted, universally somewhere
in the defendants past. And when I said he was
always so creepy, he was always a weirdo, he was
(17:49):
always a perf whatever adjective they would put in right there.
Just hearing somebody say that, it's like a sixth sense. Okay, Bethany,
are you sitting down?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
You look like you're sitting.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Okay, you may need to lay down. I'm going to
play something for you. Guys, embrace yourself. The defense is
having a field day with this audio of the little
boys when they were little boys.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Listen, you know what's right and wrong?
Speaker 7 (18:16):
Right?
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (18:17):
You know, no when could touch your private areas?
Speaker 8 (18:20):
Yeah, but buddy didn't touch doesn't touch.
Speaker 9 (18:23):
Your private parts? Okay, yeah, and you know what's right
and wrong, right, you know where people can't touch, where
people can't be Yeah, you know that, right? Does Tim
ever do that?
Speaker 8 (18:37):
No, he's never touched me.
Speaker 9 (18:39):
Never touched you, Yeah, in the in like you know,
your private areas, right, never did that?
Speaker 8 (18:49):
Never?
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
You just heard audio police audio that we got from
our friends at TMZ interviewing the two twin boys we're
not saying their names. We're referring to them as the
victory L Love and s Sally ll Love, VL and SL.
(19:13):
That is the original police interview with accusers, and it
sounds like that is a forensic interviewer that establishes with
the child they understand right from wrong and not to
tell stories. Okay, that's just part of the interview where
both boys deny anything happened.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Emmy Award winner Timothy Busfield joins cast as an actor
and director who tells boys to call him Uncle Tim.
Inappropriate action happens on multiple occasions, and parents of the
boys say Busfield masks the inappropriate touching as play. One
boy says he was touched on his intimate parts over
his clothing. The boys are referred to as SL and VL.
The parents say SL wakes up scared from nightmares about
(19:57):
Busfield touching him and is diagnosed PTSD.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Busfield and his wife, actress Melissa Gilbert, live a quiet,
secluded life in their Cat Skills mountainside home until accusations
pull them into public scrutiny.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Even that quiet, secluded life in the cat Skills did
not protect Timothy Busfield from a battering ram just crashing
through his door when he did not come to the door.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
He has now been in court. Take a look at
this video.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
This is what went down and their cat skills refuge.
Take a look everybody in full tac gear. This is
from our friends at Daily Mail. And in the end,
Timothy Busfield is in court now another field day, another
touchdown for the defense. It's when they obtained an audio
(20:50):
recording from the time these claims were first brought they
were originally dismissed. I want you to hear again the
police recording. Listen, we're we've transcribed it for you so
you can see and hear exactly what the boys said
at the time.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
You know what's right and wrong, right, Yeah?
Speaker 9 (21:10):
You know no one could touch your private areas. Yeah.
Speaker 10 (21:14):
Well but buddy didn't touch you, doesn't touch.
Speaker 9 (21:16):
Your private parts, okay, yeah, And you know what's right
and wrong, right. You know where people can't touch, where
people can be Yeah, you know that, right. Does Tim
ever do that?
Speaker 10 (21:30):
No, he's never touched me.
Speaker 9 (21:32):
Never touched you. Yeah, in the in like you know,
your private areas, right, never did that?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Never?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Okay, Okay, that's bad for the state.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I'm just telling you and I'm prone to believe the victims,
but that is going to be extremely damaging on cross examination.
If these boys do take the stand that they're longer boys,
that's my friends at TAMC.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
So how did this whole thing happen? Now?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Years later, after Busfield joins the show as director, the
parents discover there have been allegations against Busfield of sexual
assault against women and miners. The mother asks the boys
if anyone has ever touched them in a manner that
made them feel uncomfortable. The children reply, you mean, like
Uncle Tim. Hearing this, the parents contact a law firm
that recommends taking the children to unmh.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Okay, right there, Doctor Bethany Marshall, It's hard to ask
your children, but I found a way to ask the
children when they were little, starting as young as two
and three, if anybody had ever touched their private parts ever,
front end or back end. And I had learned a
(22:48):
lot from learning about interviewing children forensically.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Which I had to do as a prosecutor.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
And there's a problem here because if the twins, either
one of them, had ever said yeah, I would have
immediately called the hospital and the police. My first thought
would not be to call a lawyer.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
What do you think that is right?
Speaker 8 (23:15):
Here's what I think it could be that the little
boy who's having PTSD and dreams about being touched by
Uncle Tim, actually, in fact, his parents are coaching him
and talking to him about sex and what it's like
when somebody touches your private parts, and that they are
so excited over the prospect of a shakedown, that this
(23:39):
is the biggest topic in the household at this point,
and that it's that conversation that's actually traumatizing this little boy.
I had a family who brought a sixteen year old
to me who had been raped by her best male friend,
who was also sixteen. But they they would invade the
session excitedly talking about the nature of the rape, and
(24:03):
I became aware that actually they were setting up the
other family by continually planting stories in the sixteen year
old's head. She wasn't traumatized by whatever happened with the
other sixteen year old. It's her parents who were traumatizing
her because they just saw a big paycheck at the
(24:24):
end of the day. Now, I don't know for sure
if that's what's happening here, but I would certainly consider
that as a possibility.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
The parents have not been accused of any fraud in
this case at all. For all we know, these claims
could be true, and the parents are doing what they
can for their children.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
That said, they call lawyer and this happens.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Next examining the children, hospital staff advised the parents it
appears their children were groomed and in reference to a
CART exam, an interview of a child by a specialized
forensic interviewer as part of a child Abuse Response Team
KRT protocol. In interviews with both boys, neither child discloses
any sexual contact, but both say Uncle Tim would tickle
(25:12):
them on the stomach and legs and they didn't like it.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Oh, my stars, Chris Melcher, I guess you're.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Just dancing up and down the halls with glee right now,
because here they are in another interview at the hospital
and they're doing a full on cart a CART which
is a specialized exam you do with potential child abuse victims.
Both times, neither child discloses sex contact. They do say quote,
(25:41):
Uncle Tim would tickle them on the stomach and legs
and they didn't like it. Okay, boom bum but um
boom but bum bum bum boom.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
It's lining up for the state. It pays me to
say it. But here is another blow to potential victims.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I
know here's another point of cross exam. I mean, I'm
just looking at it analytically, Melcher, because if I'm preparing
these boys for direct I got to prepare them for
the fact that this hospital staff is going to come.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
In and say he said it didn't happen. You got
to be ready for that.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
If you believe the boys or don't believe the boys,
there's another nail in the coffin.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
Absolutely all this evidence points towards his innocence, and it's exculpatory.
There's there's again, it's it's it's maddening to think that
the prosecutor filed this case to begin with, as you
know they have they have a.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Wait a minute, Melcher, Wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
What if the prosecutor assume has spoken to the boys,
it believes the boys. So what you don't bring a
case just because somebody like Chris Melcher says, I can't
believe they did that. If you believe the victim, then
put the victim up on the stand and give it all.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
You got to go in guns and blazon man.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
No, it's not about believing anyone. It's whether you can
secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. That's an ethical
obligation of the prosecutor that I don't think is being
honored here based on this evidence. Because mal sure, if
you ask a child, a young child, over and over again,
in highly suggestive interviews, potentially by their parents, have you
(27:20):
been abused? Eventually you will get the answer that you're
looking for.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
And it's well, they haven't gotten it yet.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Well, I know the prosecution hasn't spoken to the child
victims now adults, young adults, and they convinced the prosecution
has happened, and the prosecution believes them and believes that
they will carry the day regarding credibility, and they will
win the case. I mean, what you say is reasonably
expect a conviction. They may reasonably expect a conviction based
(27:50):
on the interviews of the alleged victims.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
You don't know that.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
What I'm saying is you got to prep them for
what's going to happen on cross and it ain't pretty
what happens. Then they go to the hospital, they do
the cart interview, hospital staff says, all he did was
tickle them, all right, how does that turn into this?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Listen.
Speaker 11 (28:12):
Police began investigating Busfield in November twenty twenty four, when
an investigator responds to a call from a doctor at
University New Mexico Hospital calling for investigation. The parents take
their boys to the hospital and the mother contacts Child
Protective Services, accusing Busfield of abusing the children. One of
the boys tells police Busfield first touched him inappropriately when
(28:33):
he was just seven, and again when he was eight.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
So Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter the US Sun on
the case from the very beginning. Jessica, So at this juncture,
when a police officer speaks to the boys, they do
say at least one of them says, Timothy Busfield did
touch them either their front end or their back end. Right.
Speaker 6 (28:58):
So there was actually a year between me and the
kids going being brought into the hospital and the hospital
reporting to police that they had believed that the child
the children were being groomed by Timothy, And then a
year later they said he had just tickled us, but
he didn't touch our privates at that point, and so
the police declined to prosecute anything on that, and so
a full year later, now we're talking October of twenty
(29:20):
twenty five, the boys, one of the boys reported to
his counselor at the time allegedly that Timothy had touched
him in the front on his privates and in the
background his privates, and so the counselor, who's a mandated reporter,
called the cops, and that's how the cops came to
this point where we're at, where Timothy has been arrested
because there was an allegation of actual touching maid. Now,
(29:43):
even though it's a full year later, that's yeah, that is.
The prosecution argues that basically, you know, it takes time
for kids to come forward with allegations like this, and
that they were intimidated by Timothy, and they were intimidated
by you know, the police and the art conversations with
police where they denied any kind of touching like this.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Detectives find the children didn't say anything to anyone on
the set even though they didn't like it, because Busfield
was the director and the children are afraid of making
the director angry or getting in trouble. The investigation reveals,
even though Busfield should not have been alone with the children.
Measures preventing such one on one contact were ignored, and
there were times when Buzzfield could have been alone with
(30:24):
the children, in particular SL on the set.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Interviews with personnel on the show reveal how the children
changed after Busfield joined the show. The boys were equally
happy to be in front of the cameras, but after
Busfield joined the show, SL became withdrawn, did not want
to be on set, and VL ended up being used
more than SL. The investigation determines Busfield did not have
the opportunity to be alone with the boys, particularly sl Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
To doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany, that means
something one of the boys became withdrawn and didn't want
to go on the set anymore. There are classic textbook
symptoms of molestation you look for, such as does a
child start wetting the bed? Do their grades drop? Do
they become quiet withdrawn? Sometimes they don't want to eat.
(31:15):
There are many classic symptoms of child molestation.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yes, if you know what to look for.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Not wanting to go to the set anymore when they
previously loved going to the set.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
That's an indicator.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
It's not enough to build a case, and I can
tell you that right now, but it is an indicator.
Speaker 8 (31:32):
Well, the reason that's an indicator, Nancy, is that avoidance
is a primary symptom of trauma. So when little boys
who love to be in front of the camera all
of a sudden don't want to go to set, that's
something you have to pay attention to, you know, Nancy.
Some predators, sex predators or pedophiles are what we call
(31:53):
interpersonal offenders. That means they don't go as far as
fondling the child's gen tolls or groping or molesting, but
they exploit the child emotionally. They have, as I said earlier,
poor boundaries, and they make the child feel like the
child is under their control, and that could be that
(32:15):
could be traumatic as well.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Okay, to the control room.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
You keep showing shots, and Melissa Gilbert, I know what
you're doing.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
She's married to Busfield, and I know what you're doing.
Everyone that works on crime stories knows that.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
As my cases became more and more complex and more
and more upsetting. When I specialized in almost universally homicide, rape,
child molestation, I would watch the Little House in the prairie,
little house on the prairie in the morning, to brace.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Myself to go to court.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
And finally in the end, when it was Serial Killers,
Serial Rapist, Serial Child Molisters, I had to watch two
episodes every morning before I could go to work.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
That said, I'm attached to a little house on the prairie.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So this case is not about Melissa Gilbert, even if
you want to make it about Melissa Gilbert.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
And yes, she was in court, front row, crying, crying,
and while her.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Husband was in custody for some reason, she gives a
tour of her fridge.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
At modern prairie, we always say life is too short
to eat dessert first, take your pick.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Doctor Bethany Marshall neither here nor there when it comes
into the case in chief whether this is going to
actually be a case, But why is she giving a
tour of her fridge while her husband is being charged
with yold lat's station multiple counts.
Speaker 8 (33:58):
She may be trying to normal their household, Nancy. She
may be trying to indicate that she's a nurturing person,
that she believes her husband that this is a warm
and cozy home. It's not a place where a sex
predator lives. But you know, Nancy, something I always tell
my patients when they're about to marry somebody where this
questionable alliance. I say, when you marry a person, you
(34:21):
marry their crimes. Okay, So that's just wisdom I would
impart to everybody. Also, the letter that she wrote to
the court is very loving. She calls her husband a sweet,
sweet husband. But I would say that idealization is necessary
for a good marriage. You have to idealize your partner
(34:42):
a little bit, and when the idealization is gone, the
love is gone. So if he did commit these crimes,
that idealization is going to come crashing down and we're
going to see Okay, we're not going to see a
whole refrigerator anymore.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
I don't care if they have fresh cut flow in
a vase. I don't care if there's real butter in
the fridge, because I have had chime molesters that range from.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Literally the creepy dude in the raincoat to pastors. So
appearances mean nothing to me.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Maybe it means something to this judge because he let
busfill or release on recognizants. Now, this is something that
means something to me a guy off of the set
where the children worked.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Listen to this guy.
Speaker 10 (35:36):
At any given time, if the child was on set,
there was a minimum of ten people there on the
set with them. It's just how it works. There's two cameras,
two camera oppers, two focus ploorers, two boom guys, a
prop person, a hair and makeup person, the studio person
would usually be there, the first assistant director, two dolly grips.
(35:57):
And that's for every take, for every shot, always, especially
with the children, because we had such limited amount of
time with the children.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
That from our friends at TMZ welcome back. We have
heard a lot about what is wrong with the two
little boys now grown and their testimony, their claims of
being abust victims. We've heard a lot about that, But
what about other alleged victims of Busfields.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
It cannot be ignored. Listen.
Speaker 11 (36:27):
Years ago, Sacramento, California, Busfield accused of abuse against a
sixteen year old auditioning for Busfield at Sacramento's B Street Theater.
The teen reports Busfield kissed her, put his hands down
her pants, and touched her privates. Busfield begged the family
not to report to law enforcement if he received therapy,
and the father, who was a therapist himself, thought at
(36:48):
the time that this was the best thing to do.
The father now says the incident changed the trajectory of
his daughter's life and he regrets not having gone to
the police at the time.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Out to Dave Mac, that was a sixteen year old girl.
What else is lurking in Busville's background, you.
Speaker 7 (37:10):
Know, Nancy, We've got the first one we actually know
about was from the set of the movie Little Big League,
where a seventeen year old accused him a bus Field
of taking her back to his trailer, giving her alcohol
and then trying to kiss her and eventually groped her
(37:31):
and tried to rape her in the trailer just off
the set. That actually came front. They ended up settling
it out of court. And that was just like a taste.
She was seventeen. And when you go to the Sacramento
event again, a girl about the same age, and in
that instance they decided they bet stop.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Right there, Dave Mac, let's not call alleged victims.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Event don't say that.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Okay, now, you told me the one about the sixteen
year old girl on Little Big Field.
Speaker 7 (38:07):
Okay, go ahead, Next we've got the one in ninety four,
and then we've got another one in twenty twelve. In
that particular case, a woman said that she went on
a date with Buzzfield and while in the theater he
groped her and assaulted her. That actually went to the police, Nancy.
They sat down and interviewed everything and decided they didn't
(38:29):
have enough evidence to move forward from the attack in
the dark in theater. But that was in twenty twelve.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Now, wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
The nineteen ninety six case involving allegations of a child
sex assault, he paid one hundred and fifty thousand dollars
to settle it. That's a lot of money, Okay, So
Chris Melcher, that gives credence to the current case. We
(38:58):
have a string prior allegations, and on at least one
of those, he settled for one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (39:07):
Well, I don't think that's ever going to see the
light of day in any criminal case, because that's would
be character.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
That that's not character evidence. He entered a settlement to
make the case go away. I don't even know what
you're saying. We're not.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
It's character evidence because they would.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Be trying to transaction.
Speaker 5 (39:28):
That's what it is, Yeah, to try to establish that
he acted in conformity with that alleged a prior incident,
with this prior this current incident. No way that's getting
in c. Harvey Weinstein case where that was reversed, where
they had uncharged.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Okay, you know what I can say. You know what
I am speaking from a place of investigation. I'm trying
to find out what really happened. So one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars settlement on a prior and to Dave Matt,
can I talk to you about Jim Wicka, a former
(40:06):
lawyer who represented a seventeen year old girl who accused
Bussfield of sex harassment in ninety four. What can you
tell me about a judge ordering Busfield to pay up to.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Wicka?
Speaker 7 (40:23):
Well, you know, Wicka actually was the attorney in that case,
the ninety four case with the woman from Little Big
League and Timothy. Buzzfield counter sued his WICCA and the
law firm, saying they damaged him and damaged his character.
(40:43):
So he filed one hundred and fifty thousand dollars lawsuit
against Wicca and his partners, and the judge was just
beside himself and this is ridiculous and tossed everything and
it went back to Timothy Busfield having to pay for
the attorney's fees and everything associated with that case with
that woman, that young lady who actually you know, was
(41:04):
the actual victim in this case.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Okay, So that's where the figure one hundred and fifty
thousand dollars comes from.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
As after the lawyer sued and for defamation to Dave.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Mac how many alleged priors are there against Bussfeld?
Speaker 7 (41:21):
Eight? I believe documented, Nancy, I've seen that number. I
haven't seen every one of those, just a lot of
the ones that we've talked about.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
And Jessica Finn, what can you tell me about Busfield
passing a polygraph a lie detector? Was it a private
le detector set up by his lawyers or is it
a police light detector test?
Speaker 6 (41:42):
So Timothy took a private light detector test in a
really unusual move, while there was a warrned out for
his arrest, and as he was driving two thousand miles
from upstate New York to New Mexico to finally turn
himself in, which again took five full days along the way,
he decided he was going to a lied detective test
about this to I guess help exonerate him or try
(42:04):
and keep him out of jail. And he was of
course held for several days behind bars until the detention
hearing that happened earlier this week. But he did take
a lie detective test that supposedly tells, you know, is
supposed to prove that he did not molest this little boy.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Allegedly, the judge seemingly agrees with the defense.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
He releases Muzzfield are released on own recognisance.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
What is true? What is just? In this case?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
You just heard this judge speaking from the bench, and
our friends at TMZ recorded that, thank you, Harvey Levin.
The search for justice goes on. Are the boys telling
the truth? What about the other alleged victims? What happened
to their cases? And what if anything, does that have
to do with the here and now. If you know
(42:59):
or think you know anything regarding this case, please call
Albuquerque PD. Five zero five eight four three seven eight
six seven five zero five eight four three seven eight
six seven. We remember an American hero, Assistant Chief Johnny Patterson, Verona,
(43:20):
p D. Mississippi, killed in the line of duty after
twenty eight years, leaving behind a distraught and grieving wife
and two sons. American Hero Assistant Chief Johnny Patterson Nancy
Gray signing off goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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