June 21, 2017 • 27 mins
Natalie Wood was one of Hollywood's biggest stars when her body washed up on a beach Thanksgiving weekend, 1981. Robert Wagner, also a huge star, has acknowledged that he and his wife argued before she disappeared off their yacht, which was anchored in a Catalina Island, California, harbor. Crime Stories re-examines the cause of death, which the Los Angeles coroner recently reclassified from "accidental" to "undetermined." The first episode in our series is with Sheryl McCollum, head of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Natalie Wood was one of the most popular sought after
actresses in Hollywood. This is America, sweeth talk. This story
is huge. It was Thanksgiving weekend when Would and her
actor husband Robert Wagner went sailing on their yacht, The Splendor.
They were joined by actor and friend Christopher walkin This
(00:25):
is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Wagner notified Captain Dennis
Davern that Would was not on board. Wagner, let's turn
on the searchlight to see if we can see her,
and he said, no, we don't want to do that
right now. Do you believe that maybe Robert Wagner has
been hiding the real truth of what happened that night
all these years? I fully believe that we ever seen
(00:47):
information which we felt was substantial enough to make us
take another look at this case. It's old information that
was never looked at, that should have been looked at.
She's a beautiful brunette, a mother. Once you look into
those brown eyes, you'll never forget them. And oh, yes,
(01:11):
she's dead. I'm talking about Natalie Would. Can you believe
the saga of her watery death goes on. It's still
not settled what happened to Natalie would was she murdered?
(01:33):
With me right now? The director of the Cold Case Institute,
Cheryl McCollum, I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories, you know, Cheryl.
I have never felt any degree of um. You know,
when we would try case, when we were both duking
it out in the courtroom. You finish the case, you
(01:55):
get a verdict, and you feel a sense of not
not really peace, but like you have achieved something. You
did it, it's done. Next. I've never felt that way
about Natalie Wood. I've never felt Okay, now I can
go onto the next case. Something right. Several things are
(02:15):
not right, but yeah, you just give that feeling that
it's unsettled. Um. Robert Wagner changing his story, The ship's
captain changing his story. The evidence that you know, there
was some type of struggle on board, there was some
type of fight. Um. The fact that they did not
search for her, even though he says he did on board,
(02:37):
there was evidence that he did not completely search that
boat for her. Well, what concerns me is they did
not completely search the boat for her. For the ship
and that night, according to reliable sources, Robert Wagner insisted
they not use the searchlight to try and find his
(02:58):
wife out in the water. I mean, that is just
the tip of the iceberg. Let's let's start at the
get go um with many special guest Cheryl McCullum, the
director and founder of the Cold Case Institute. Natalie Wood, superstar,
was found drowned near her yacht, repeat her yacht during
(03:21):
celebration Thanksgiving. The cause of death seemed to be apparent
that she drowned. But why was she out in the
middle of the ocean all by herself? Why was she
was she trying to escape something that had happened on
the boat. This is a woman, by all accounts, that
(03:42):
had a dread fear, a dread fear of water. In fact,
a so called fortune teller had foretold her death by
water many years before, and she had been afraid ever since.
She would even have night terrors about drowning, nightmares about it.
(04:03):
She would not put one little toe out in the ocean.
That just no, that was not gonna happen. And I'm
supposed to believe, Cheryl McCollum, that she and the husband,
now remember he was a TV star, she was the
movie star, and he made comments about it all the time.
(04:23):
Like the sources say that. For instance, when they were
going out to dinner, he gave, well, you're the star, Natalie,
you pick where we're going. You know what, I'd want
to slap my husband's sideways if he says something like that.
I mean, I'd be thrilled to get to pick where
we were going. But you know, you know it's my daughter.
She runs the house because she won't eat all right,
(04:45):
I have to make everything, Cheryl. You know this about Lucy.
I have to make when I cook, it's got to
be a veggie. I know she will eat blah blah.
So you know why we just cut the chase and
go straight to her. What do you want tonight? Okay,
that'll save me a lot of bubble. So I'd be
thrilled if I got to pick, but not like that,
like some side handed, backhanded insult. But so at the time,
(05:09):
that was a big, big differentiation. I guess it still is,
but whether you're a TV or a movie star. So
he was all like hung up with that, so that
I'm supposed to believe that that night they have a
fight over her co star Christopher Walkin, who I love
(05:30):
who happens to be with them? On the yacht and
they have a fight because Ragner is jealous that he
Mets admits that, he admits they have a knockdown drag out.
He admits he breaks a bottle of wine, some glasses
or something like that in his anger, and that She
decides that night Cheryl like, correct me if I'm wrong,
(05:50):
because you know the facts a lot better than me.
She decides she's gonna crawl off the yacht in the
in the dark, unread up a huge dinghy on the
side of the yacht and then crawled down in it
in the dark, out on the ocean, on the waves,
(06:11):
and row herself to shore or motor And and Nancy,
she decided to do this in a slannel nightgown in
woolfs hop and no underwear. And now I am not
saying you can't go to commando when you feel like,
you know fine. Every time I turn around, I find
(06:34):
out John David's running around without underwear, you know, I
just find out by accident. Okay, I'm like, what are
you doing running around without underwear? And he just starts
laughing and runs away. But she was you and I
Cheryl McCullum have poured through photos of Natalie Wood. Tell
(06:54):
me your observation. There's not one photograph where she's not flawless.
Her hair, her makeup, her outfit, her jewelry. She is
a movie star in every single photograph you can find,
picture perfect. So for me to believe that this woman
in a flannel nightgown with her makeup ball, with half
(07:17):
of her jewelry off, with a down jacket wolf socks
is spixing a goat to shore in the middle night
and night? How many times do I get irritated with
my husband, you know, after supper, and I mean it's
still cleaning out the kitchen, he's sitting there reading his iPad.
I just want to go snap his little nose off
his face. But and I think, you know what, I
(07:39):
just got stomp out. I like, and go where in
the middle right in my gym shorts and socks? Where
am I going? What to target? You know, I'm just
gonna just stay here. I might as well just stay
here and sock. I mean, And it was cold, and
it was dark. And again, not only did she have
(08:00):
a fear of water, dark water was debilitating. She would
not even go near her own swimming pool in Beverly Hills,
in the dark. She wouldn't do it. Did she know
how to swim in heaven? You're not getting me out
on a dinghy in the middle of a night and
I can swim and it with wool socks on. And
(08:24):
and that's another thing. Natalie would, as you said, was
always dressed to the not to the tea, her hair
was done. She would not even go to the grocery
store without being made up. Now you know me, I'll
just put on a hat and some sunglasses and and
and ride. Okay. But that was not That's not the
(08:50):
way she rolled. That did not happen with Natalie Wood. Absolutely.
I remember one time and I was called into a
crumb scene after leaving your show. Well, I had all
the studio makeup owe and my hair was perfect. And
when I got to the scene where the detective said,
are you in drags? Okay? I mean the favorite thing
(09:11):
of Lucy's is to peel off my false eyelashes. I
mean it's like, okay, so they don't they don't like
all that. But Natalie, it was a whole different That's
that's a whole different thing. She knew her public, or
she thought her public wanted to see her that way.
(09:31):
They did. They wanted, She believed they wanted the allure
of Natalie. Would you know in those doors Day movies,
how Doorsday always wears the cute little outfits to bed.
I'm sure Natalie would would not want the world to
know she slept in flannel socks up to her knees
and a flannel gown. Okay, that is not glamorous. Okay,
(09:56):
I'm just telling you. So see we're getting bogged down
in the d tell us. But you know what, what's funny, Cheryl?
Do you remember all the times, all the cases I prosecuted,
I would sit there and talk and talk and study
and study exactly this, all the little details. Oh yeah,
(10:18):
and you have often said the devil's in the details
this woman. And you know Natalie Wood was not going
anywhere without her underwear on. No no judging you, Cheryl
for going around without your underwear on. But what I'm
saying this woman would not do that. So okay, off
(10:39):
her flannel nightgown. What else do we know about that night, Cheryl?
We know that they had a fight, and we know
that Robert Wagner changed his story the broken wine bottle. Specifically,
he said, oh it must have been because the boat,
you know, was rocking time and it must have just
fallen over. Well, that yacht wasn't moving in that water.
(11:00):
And then he later changed the story and even wrote
in a book, but he smashed it over jealousy of
Christopher Walking. So again, in my world, want you change
your story. I'm focused on you completely, you know, That's
what I always say, Cheryl. Embellish your story, add to
your story as much as you want to. But when
(11:22):
you change your story, you've got a problem. Because I
always learned working with witnesses that when I would sit
down with them, which of course I would do before
I put them on the stand. Um, if you sit
down and take time to talk to them and ask
them question after question after question, he learned so much
(11:45):
more than it's in a police report. And they will
embellish a lot of facts and details and descriptions as
best they can. But when they start changing the story,
then there's a problem. Now let's talk about how if
he did, did Robert Wagner change his story about that night?
(12:05):
What is his story about the secreence of events? His
story was that she went off to bed, he went
down later, she wasn't there, he looked for her. He
went to the ship's captain um, they looked through the
whole yacht. They could not find her, and then they
became panicked. But he still waits and waits and waits
(12:28):
before he calls for help. He waits and waits and
waits before he calls for other people to come help
and search and find her. He never turns the lights on.
He never goes to Christopher Walking's room. So again, if
I'm quote looking everywhere for her, the person that I
was jealous of, the person that I thought she was
learning with, I would have at least gone to his stateroom.
(12:50):
And that never happened. Right. The big blow up that
night was he Wagner was jealous that Natalie was paying
at tension to Christopher Walking and they were having fun
and talking. They've been working on a movie, as I recall,
it was some kind of thriller, Brainstorm, that was the
name of it. Her co star was Christopher Walking, So
(13:13):
Walking comes along. Bad weather was predicted that night in November.
There was a cold rain over Isthmus Bay. It was
pummeling the faces of anybody going ashore for dinner. The
sea wasn't that rough. However, although it was a horrible night.
(13:36):
Um let me understand. So they are all three on
that's called the Splendor was Natalie's yacht. They're celebrating it's Thanksgiving,
and then the fight breaks out. You know, once you
add alcohol into a scenario like this, it's just like
putting gas on a fire. So r J. Robert Wagner
(14:00):
gets mad and starts a fight and actually says, what
do you want to f my wife? He says that
to Walk and I guess that ended the party. Okay,
Walking stops off to bed and slams the door, and
then the two of them continue to fight, also on
board the ship's captain. Then what happens. The ship's captain
(14:22):
is panicked, and he said, we've got to call for help.
We've got to turn the lights on, and he said, no,
leave her there. He said leave her there, So that
would make me think he knew where she was. So Ben, finally,
after four hours, do you know she's said he Robert
Wagner said leave her there. That's what the ship's captain said.
(14:44):
That he told him and I met with him personally.
So then they decided to call for help. So Robert
Wagner calls for help and he tells over the radio,
we have someone overboard in a Rubberdeen. We so he
includes other people in this and then says someone. He
(15:07):
doesn't say my wife, he doesn't say Natalie, he doesn't
identify her at all. So back to me is very
important if you remember, like with John Bade Ramsey, when
Patsy referred to that child, trying to distant yourself at
all is a clue to me. You know it wasn't someone.
I know, it sounds like a small clue, Cheryl, but
(15:29):
it is a clue and that has been repeated over
and over in criminal cases when you refer to the
victim or someone else not by their name, but as
for instance, that child or someone. Now, remember it was
about seven pm that evening that they had all been
seated for dinner, and they ordered more and more champagne.
(15:52):
And this was on I believe, on shore, and the
manager of the restaurant was so worried he was afraid
they were also intoxicated. They couldn't get back to the yacht,
but they did and they drinking continued. The fight breaks out,
Walking storms away, slams his door. The fight continues and
(16:13):
then suddenly, how is everybody alerted that Natalie is missing?
And Robert Wagner went and told then they supposedly searched,
and then that's when they called for help. And what
help arrived? Um, they had helicopters and everything. Um. The
dinghy was actually found a mile away from the yacht,
(16:34):
and Natalie was found in the other direction, almost a
mile away. Almost. Now, was there a witness on a
nearby craft that believed there was an ear witness? Yea,
she heard a lady screaming help me. Wow. Okay, what
(17:02):
else do we know? We know that she had the
wool fox own when they recovered her, and that's key
because if she would have been flailing around trying to
save herself from drowning, those thoughts very likely would have
come off. We know that she had three d of
during in her ladder, which again makes you think she
(17:26):
may not have been conscious when she went into the water,
because normally, if someone is grounding, they void, and that's
very typical. In fact, it would be abnormal for her
not to urinate if you drowned exactly exactly. I mean,
that's one of the things that leaked off the page
to me. When I read the autoxics, which means you
(17:50):
the alternative to that is that she was knocked out
before she was thrown in and therefore she didn't void
in the water. Correct. Now, that does not jive with
a fellow craft hearing her yelling help correct, which is
one of the things law enforcements should have keyed in
(18:11):
on at the time. So again, the stocks, the urine,
those things do not appear that she was actively drowning,
but could have gone into water unconscious and drowned, so
that would equate for the urine and the water in
her loans. Repeat, she had water in her loan, so
(18:32):
she did take in water, but with the urine. That
would explain she went into the water, possibly unconscious but
still drowned, but was not playing a round. The night
manager of the restaurant where they had eaten that evening
was that reading a book in the cavern of the
boat where he lived year round. He heard the radio,
(18:55):
the CB radio, crackling, and he heard the conversation in
between Wagner and Miller. He radio to a friend, then
a night manager, Don Whiting, on the Isthmus to go
to the Wagner yacht Pronto and report back in thirty
minutes after that. Finally, thirty minutes after he did that,
(19:18):
light beams from the harbor patrol boats, private boats from Baywatch,
Coastguard helicopters began to criss cross the ocean. They shine
down on the waves, swept over yachts, ships. Nothing was
found in the sea. It was seven thirty the following morning.
A sheriff's helicopter headed towards Catalina. Suddenly a crew member
(19:43):
just saw a spot of red in the ocean waves
and they go down and it is faced down in
a red jacket. Natalie Wood, her hair splaying out around her,
face down in the water. The dinghy was discovered on
(20:05):
shore even further south, the key still in the ignition,
turned in the off position, the gear neutral, the oars
still tied down. What does that mean? Sure's what it
(20:25):
means to me. The down jacket is what allowed them
to find her so again down float. So when they
talk in the autopic report that, oh, the jacket would
have weighed forty pounds, it would have just you know,
drawn her all the way down into the ocean. That
jacket didn't weigh forty pounds in the water. The jacket
is the reason. Again they found her because down float,
(20:49):
So that jacket did not kill her. That makes the shot, yes,
because the boat obviously had not been used at all.
But here's another key thing. They said she fell getting
into the boat. They just accepted that she fell getting in.
Nobody untied the dingy and then gets in it. That
(21:13):
dingy being rubber on that water with that wind. As
soon as you untie it, it's going to start moving
like a balloon in the wind. It's moving. So if
she untied it first, there ain't no getting in it.
That boat's gone. She wouldn't have done that, we already know.
Here's here's the contrast. It was clear she was not
dressed to go on a boat ride, but police believe
(21:35):
she had to untie the dinghy. Why is she untie
it if she didn't intend to go out in the boat.
And again, you get in the boat, you get it already,
you get the oars, you turn it on, then you
untie it. Correct, that's how that works. And she knew
that much. And Nancy, look at it pre and post behavior.
(21:56):
Look at post behavior. Even when this horrible thing happens,
Robert Wagner doesn't even go and identify her body. Once again,
he goes to the ship captain and makes him do it.
Dennis the Verne identified Natalie Wood at the moors. You
know another thing is who told their children? Correct? Nascarsha
(22:24):
learned about it on the radio with a friend's house.
What Nascarsha learned about her mother's death breaking news over
the radio while she was at a friend's house. He
didn't call her, he didn't go over there, he didn't
go pick her up. Now, you and I both have
(22:45):
recently lost loved ones. My immediate concern became my children,
how to explain it to them, how to help them
through it. I wanted to get to them as fast
as I could not. Robert Wagner, did we learn anything
(23:06):
from the search of the boat of the yacht? Yes,
their state room was in disarray, the wine bottle, and
again the fact that he did not completely search it,
the fact that he did not turn on searchlights, the
fact that he did not offer help immediately but allowed
great time to pass, the fact that there was some
(23:27):
jewelry in the room. Part of her jewelry was off,
so it looked like something disrupted her nightly routine. So
her sister will explain to you. She took her jewelry off,
she took her makeup off, she put her night down,
and then she went to bed. So that's how she
did it. So at some point she decides she's going
(23:49):
to put a jacket on because they're going outside. So
they're either going outside to finish arguing, which the captain
can hear um, or he makes her put the jacket
on and says, come with me. We don't you know,
We don't know for sure. Obviously we weren't there. But
at some point she stops her nightly routine and puts
on a jacket and goes outside with Robert Wagner. So
(24:10):
Robert Wagner is the last person to see her. He
was arguing with her at the time. The ship's captain
that you know, Dennis to Burn, will tell you he
saw her like shove her away, shove her away or
shove her towards the water. We also know that, according
to the autopsy, a widespread bruise diffuse. It was about
(24:33):
four inches by one inch spread over her right arm
above the wrist. On the left wrist was a superficial
fresh bruise about a half inch in diameter. There were
small superficial skin bruises scattered over her right and left
(24:55):
lower legs, fresh the area on the left recent bruising,
the right ankle recent bruise, and superficial bruises on the posterior,
the back of both lower legs covered covering her legs
(25:15):
were covered in bruises. A vertical upwards brush type abrasion
was on her cheek, her left cheek, as I recall,
that was her only head wound. What are you correct?
What do you think? I think that's a hell of
(25:36):
a fall. If you can manage to hit the front
of your legs and the back of your legs and
both the wrists and your face the front and that's
not that's not a fall. You don't fall, that's not
get bruised front and back, not at all. It reminds
me of the Kathleen Savio in the dry bathtub, and
she had bruising everywhere. It looks to me like she
(26:01):
might have had some type of physical fight and then
hit maybe the swim step going in, or maybe the
swim step and part of the deemi like she fell
in between. But again, that doesn't appear completely accidental. Some
of those bruises were fresh, so possibly before she hit
the water. What's happening right now in the investigation? What
(26:26):
why have there are there never been an arrest, well
right now to take because they're actively work in the case.
They have reinterviewed Christopher Walking, they have reinterviewed Um, some
other principal people, and the death certificate have been changed
from accidental drowning to undetermined. So that's very significant to
(26:50):
me that they would make that move. The case goes
on with me, the director of the Cold Case Institute,
Cheryl McCullum, I'm Nancy Grace, Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace presents another episode in our
continuing focus on the Natalie Wood death mystery tomorrow
Natalie Wood was one of the most popular sought after
actresses in Hollywood. This is America, sweeth talk. This story
is huge. It was Thanksgiving weekend when Would and her
actor husband Robert Wagner went sailing on their yacht, The Splendor.
They were joined by actor and friend Christopher walkin This
(00:25):
is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Wagner notified Captain Dennis
Davern that Would was not on board. Wagner, let's turn
on the searchlight to see if we can see her,
and he said, no, we don't want to do that
right now. Do you believe that maybe Robert Wagner has
been hiding the real truth of what happened that night
all these years? I fully believe that we ever seen
(00:47):
information which we felt was substantial enough to make us
take another look at this case. It's old information that
was never looked at, that should have been looked at.
She's a beautiful brunette, a mother. Once you look into
those brown eyes, you'll never forget them. And oh, yes,
(01:11):
she's dead. I'm talking about Natalie Would. Can you believe
the saga of her watery death goes on. It's still
not settled what happened to Natalie would was she murdered?
(01:33):
With me right now? The director of the Cold Case Institute,
Cheryl McCollum, I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories, you know, Cheryl.
I have never felt any degree of um. You know,
when we would try case, when we were both duking
it out in the courtroom. You finish the case, you
(01:55):
get a verdict, and you feel a sense of not
not really peace, but like you have achieved something. You
did it, it's done. Next. I've never felt that way
about Natalie Wood. I've never felt Okay, now I can
go onto the next case. Something right. Several things are
(02:15):
not right, but yeah, you just give that feeling that
it's unsettled. Um. Robert Wagner changing his story, The ship's
captain changing his story. The evidence that you know, there
was some type of struggle on board, there was some
type of fight. Um. The fact that they did not
search for her, even though he says he did on board,
(02:37):
there was evidence that he did not completely search that
boat for her. Well, what concerns me is they did
not completely search the boat for her. For the ship
and that night, according to reliable sources, Robert Wagner insisted
they not use the searchlight to try and find his
(02:58):
wife out in the water. I mean, that is just
the tip of the iceberg. Let's let's start at the
get go um with many special guest Cheryl McCullum, the
director and founder of the Cold Case Institute. Natalie Wood, superstar,
was found drowned near her yacht, repeat her yacht during
(03:21):
celebration Thanksgiving. The cause of death seemed to be apparent
that she drowned. But why was she out in the
middle of the ocean all by herself? Why was she
was she trying to escape something that had happened on
the boat. This is a woman, by all accounts, that
(03:42):
had a dread fear, a dread fear of water. In fact,
a so called fortune teller had foretold her death by
water many years before, and she had been afraid ever since.
She would even have night terrors about drowning, nightmares about it.
(04:03):
She would not put one little toe out in the ocean.
That just no, that was not gonna happen. And I'm
supposed to believe, Cheryl McCollum, that she and the husband,
now remember he was a TV star, she was the
movie star, and he made comments about it all the time.
(04:23):
Like the sources say that. For instance, when they were
going out to dinner, he gave, well, you're the star, Natalie,
you pick where we're going. You know what, I'd want
to slap my husband's sideways if he says something like that.
I mean, I'd be thrilled to get to pick where
we were going. But you know, you know it's my daughter.
She runs the house because she won't eat all right,
(04:45):
I have to make everything, Cheryl. You know this about Lucy.
I have to make when I cook, it's got to
be a veggie. I know she will eat blah blah.
So you know why we just cut the chase and
go straight to her. What do you want tonight? Okay,
that'll save me a lot of bubble. So I'd be
thrilled if I got to pick, but not like that,
like some side handed, backhanded insult. But so at the time,
(05:09):
that was a big, big differentiation. I guess it still is,
but whether you're a TV or a movie star. So
he was all like hung up with that, so that
I'm supposed to believe that that night they have a
fight over her co star Christopher Walkin, who I love
(05:30):
who happens to be with them? On the yacht and
they have a fight because Ragner is jealous that he
Mets admits that, he admits they have a knockdown drag out.
He admits he breaks a bottle of wine, some glasses
or something like that in his anger, and that She
decides that night Cheryl like, correct me if I'm wrong,
(05:50):
because you know the facts a lot better than me.
She decides she's gonna crawl off the yacht in the
in the dark, unread up a huge dinghy on the
side of the yacht and then crawled down in it
in the dark, out on the ocean, on the waves,
(06:11):
and row herself to shore or motor And and Nancy,
she decided to do this in a slannel nightgown in
woolfs hop and no underwear. And now I am not
saying you can't go to commando when you feel like,
you know fine. Every time I turn around, I find
(06:34):
out John David's running around without underwear, you know, I
just find out by accident. Okay, I'm like, what are
you doing running around without underwear? And he just starts
laughing and runs away. But she was you and I
Cheryl McCullum have poured through photos of Natalie Wood. Tell
(06:54):
me your observation. There's not one photograph where she's not flawless.
Her hair, her makeup, her outfit, her jewelry. She is
a movie star in every single photograph you can find,
picture perfect. So for me to believe that this woman
in a flannel nightgown with her makeup ball, with half
(07:17):
of her jewelry off, with a down jacket wolf socks
is spixing a goat to shore in the middle night
and night? How many times do I get irritated with
my husband, you know, after supper, and I mean it's
still cleaning out the kitchen, he's sitting there reading his iPad.
I just want to go snap his little nose off
his face. But and I think, you know what, I
(07:39):
just got stomp out. I like, and go where in
the middle right in my gym shorts and socks? Where
am I going? What to target? You know, I'm just
gonna just stay here. I might as well just stay
here and sock. I mean, And it was cold, and
it was dark. And again, not only did she have
(08:00):
a fear of water, dark water was debilitating. She would
not even go near her own swimming pool in Beverly Hills,
in the dark. She wouldn't do it. Did she know
how to swim in heaven? You're not getting me out
on a dinghy in the middle of a night and
I can swim and it with wool socks on. And
(08:24):
and that's another thing. Natalie would, as you said, was
always dressed to the not to the tea, her hair
was done. She would not even go to the grocery
store without being made up. Now you know me, I'll
just put on a hat and some sunglasses and and
and ride. Okay. But that was not That's not the
(08:50):
way she rolled. That did not happen with Natalie Wood. Absolutely.
I remember one time and I was called into a
crumb scene after leaving your show. Well, I had all
the studio makeup owe and my hair was perfect. And
when I got to the scene where the detective said,
are you in drags? Okay? I mean the favorite thing
(09:11):
of Lucy's is to peel off my false eyelashes. I
mean it's like, okay, so they don't they don't like
all that. But Natalie, it was a whole different That's
that's a whole different thing. She knew her public, or
she thought her public wanted to see her that way.
(09:31):
They did. They wanted, She believed they wanted the allure
of Natalie. Would you know in those doors Day movies,
how Doorsday always wears the cute little outfits to bed.
I'm sure Natalie would would not want the world to
know she slept in flannel socks up to her knees
and a flannel gown. Okay, that is not glamorous. Okay,
(09:56):
I'm just telling you. So see we're getting bogged down
in the d tell us. But you know what, what's funny, Cheryl?
Do you remember all the times, all the cases I prosecuted,
I would sit there and talk and talk and study
and study exactly this, all the little details. Oh yeah,
(10:18):
and you have often said the devil's in the details
this woman. And you know Natalie Wood was not going
anywhere without her underwear on. No no judging you, Cheryl
for going around without your underwear on. But what I'm
saying this woman would not do that. So okay, off
(10:39):
her flannel nightgown. What else do we know about that night, Cheryl?
We know that they had a fight, and we know
that Robert Wagner changed his story the broken wine bottle. Specifically,
he said, oh it must have been because the boat,
you know, was rocking time and it must have just
fallen over. Well, that yacht wasn't moving in that water.
(11:00):
And then he later changed the story and even wrote
in a book, but he smashed it over jealousy of
Christopher Walking. So again, in my world, want you change
your story. I'm focused on you completely, you know, That's
what I always say, Cheryl. Embellish your story, add to
your story as much as you want to. But when
(11:22):
you change your story, you've got a problem. Because I
always learned working with witnesses that when I would sit
down with them, which of course I would do before
I put them on the stand. Um, if you sit
down and take time to talk to them and ask
them question after question after question, he learned so much
(11:45):
more than it's in a police report. And they will
embellish a lot of facts and details and descriptions as
best they can. But when they start changing the story,
then there's a problem. Now let's talk about how if
he did, did Robert Wagner change his story about that night?
(12:05):
What is his story about the secreence of events? His
story was that she went off to bed, he went
down later, she wasn't there, he looked for her. He
went to the ship's captain um, they looked through the
whole yacht. They could not find her, and then they
became panicked. But he still waits and waits and waits
(12:28):
before he calls for help. He waits and waits and
waits before he calls for other people to come help
and search and find her. He never turns the lights on.
He never goes to Christopher Walking's room. So again, if
I'm quote looking everywhere for her, the person that I
was jealous of, the person that I thought she was
learning with, I would have at least gone to his stateroom.
(12:50):
And that never happened. Right. The big blow up that
night was he Wagner was jealous that Natalie was paying
at tension to Christopher Walking and they were having fun
and talking. They've been working on a movie, as I recall,
it was some kind of thriller, Brainstorm, that was the
name of it. Her co star was Christopher Walking, So
(13:13):
Walking comes along. Bad weather was predicted that night in November.
There was a cold rain over Isthmus Bay. It was
pummeling the faces of anybody going ashore for dinner. The
sea wasn't that rough. However, although it was a horrible night.
(13:36):
Um let me understand. So they are all three on
that's called the Splendor was Natalie's yacht. They're celebrating it's Thanksgiving,
and then the fight breaks out. You know, once you
add alcohol into a scenario like this, it's just like
putting gas on a fire. So r J. Robert Wagner
(14:00):
gets mad and starts a fight and actually says, what
do you want to f my wife? He says that
to Walk and I guess that ended the party. Okay,
Walking stops off to bed and slams the door, and
then the two of them continue to fight, also on
board the ship's captain. Then what happens. The ship's captain
(14:22):
is panicked, and he said, we've got to call for help.
We've got to turn the lights on, and he said, no,
leave her there. He said leave her there, So that
would make me think he knew where she was. So Ben, finally,
after four hours, do you know she's said he Robert
Wagner said leave her there. That's what the ship's captain said.
(14:44):
That he told him and I met with him personally.
So then they decided to call for help. So Robert
Wagner calls for help and he tells over the radio,
we have someone overboard in a Rubberdeen. We so he
includes other people in this and then says someone. He
(15:07):
doesn't say my wife, he doesn't say Natalie, he doesn't
identify her at all. So back to me is very
important if you remember, like with John Bade Ramsey, when
Patsy referred to that child, trying to distant yourself at
all is a clue to me. You know it wasn't someone.
I know, it sounds like a small clue, Cheryl, but
(15:29):
it is a clue and that has been repeated over
and over in criminal cases when you refer to the
victim or someone else not by their name, but as
for instance, that child or someone. Now, remember it was
about seven pm that evening that they had all been
seated for dinner, and they ordered more and more champagne.
(15:52):
And this was on I believe, on shore, and the
manager of the restaurant was so worried he was afraid
they were also intoxicated. They couldn't get back to the yacht,
but they did and they drinking continued. The fight breaks out,
Walking storms away, slams his door. The fight continues and
(16:13):
then suddenly, how is everybody alerted that Natalie is missing?
And Robert Wagner went and told then they supposedly searched,
and then that's when they called for help. And what
help arrived? Um, they had helicopters and everything. Um. The
dinghy was actually found a mile away from the yacht,
(16:34):
and Natalie was found in the other direction, almost a
mile away. Almost. Now, was there a witness on a
nearby craft that believed there was an ear witness? Yea,
she heard a lady screaming help me. Wow. Okay, what
(17:02):
else do we know? We know that she had the
wool fox own when they recovered her, and that's key
because if she would have been flailing around trying to
save herself from drowning, those thoughts very likely would have
come off. We know that she had three d of
during in her ladder, which again makes you think she
(17:26):
may not have been conscious when she went into the water,
because normally, if someone is grounding, they void, and that's
very typical. In fact, it would be abnormal for her
not to urinate if you drowned exactly exactly. I mean,
that's one of the things that leaked off the page
to me. When I read the autoxics, which means you
(17:50):
the alternative to that is that she was knocked out
before she was thrown in and therefore she didn't void
in the water. Correct. Now, that does not jive with
a fellow craft hearing her yelling help correct, which is
one of the things law enforcements should have keyed in
(18:11):
on at the time. So again, the stocks, the urine,
those things do not appear that she was actively drowning,
but could have gone into water unconscious and drowned, so
that would equate for the urine and the water in
her loans. Repeat, she had water in her loan, so
(18:32):
she did take in water, but with the urine. That
would explain she went into the water, possibly unconscious but
still drowned, but was not playing a round. The night
manager of the restaurant where they had eaten that evening
was that reading a book in the cavern of the
boat where he lived year round. He heard the radio,
(18:55):
the CB radio, crackling, and he heard the conversation in
between Wagner and Miller. He radio to a friend, then
a night manager, Don Whiting, on the Isthmus to go
to the Wagner yacht Pronto and report back in thirty
minutes after that. Finally, thirty minutes after he did that,
(19:18):
light beams from the harbor patrol boats, private boats from Baywatch,
Coastguard helicopters began to criss cross the ocean. They shine
down on the waves, swept over yachts, ships. Nothing was
found in the sea. It was seven thirty the following morning.
A sheriff's helicopter headed towards Catalina. Suddenly a crew member
(19:43):
just saw a spot of red in the ocean waves
and they go down and it is faced down in
a red jacket. Natalie Wood, her hair splaying out around her,
face down in the water. The dinghy was discovered on
(20:05):
shore even further south, the key still in the ignition,
turned in the off position, the gear neutral, the oars
still tied down. What does that mean? Sure's what it
(20:25):
means to me. The down jacket is what allowed them
to find her so again down float. So when they
talk in the autopic report that, oh, the jacket would
have weighed forty pounds, it would have just you know,
drawn her all the way down into the ocean. That
jacket didn't weigh forty pounds in the water. The jacket
is the reason. Again they found her because down float,
(20:49):
So that jacket did not kill her. That makes the shot, yes,
because the boat obviously had not been used at all.
But here's another key thing. They said she fell getting
into the boat. They just accepted that she fell getting in.
Nobody untied the dingy and then gets in it. That
(21:13):
dingy being rubber on that water with that wind. As
soon as you untie it, it's going to start moving
like a balloon in the wind. It's moving. So if
she untied it first, there ain't no getting in it.
That boat's gone. She wouldn't have done that, we already know.
Here's here's the contrast. It was clear she was not
dressed to go on a boat ride, but police believe
(21:35):
she had to untie the dinghy. Why is she untie
it if she didn't intend to go out in the boat.
And again, you get in the boat, you get it already,
you get the oars, you turn it on, then you
untie it. Correct, that's how that works. And she knew
that much. And Nancy, look at it pre and post behavior.
(21:56):
Look at post behavior. Even when this horrible thing happens,
Robert Wagner doesn't even go and identify her body. Once again,
he goes to the ship captain and makes him do it.
Dennis the Verne identified Natalie Wood at the moors. You
know another thing is who told their children? Correct? Nascarsha
(22:24):
learned about it on the radio with a friend's house.
What Nascarsha learned about her mother's death breaking news over
the radio while she was at a friend's house. He
didn't call her, he didn't go over there, he didn't
go pick her up. Now, you and I both have
(22:45):
recently lost loved ones. My immediate concern became my children,
how to explain it to them, how to help them
through it. I wanted to get to them as fast
as I could not. Robert Wagner, did we learn anything
(23:06):
from the search of the boat of the yacht? Yes,
their state room was in disarray, the wine bottle, and
again the fact that he did not completely search it,
the fact that he did not turn on searchlights, the
fact that he did not offer help immediately but allowed
great time to pass, the fact that there was some
(23:27):
jewelry in the room. Part of her jewelry was off,
so it looked like something disrupted her nightly routine. So
her sister will explain to you. She took her jewelry off,
she took her makeup off, she put her night down,
and then she went to bed. So that's how she
did it. So at some point she decides she's going
(23:49):
to put a jacket on because they're going outside. So
they're either going outside to finish arguing, which the captain
can hear um, or he makes her put the jacket
on and says, come with me. We don't you know,
We don't know for sure. Obviously we weren't there. But
at some point she stops her nightly routine and puts
on a jacket and goes outside with Robert Wagner. So
(24:10):
Robert Wagner is the last person to see her. He
was arguing with her at the time. The ship's captain
that you know, Dennis to Burn, will tell you he
saw her like shove her away, shove her away or
shove her towards the water. We also know that, according
to the autopsy, a widespread bruise diffuse. It was about
(24:33):
four inches by one inch spread over her right arm
above the wrist. On the left wrist was a superficial
fresh bruise about a half inch in diameter. There were
small superficial skin bruises scattered over her right and left
(24:55):
lower legs, fresh the area on the left recent bruising,
the right ankle recent bruise, and superficial bruises on the posterior,
the back of both lower legs covered covering her legs
(25:15):
were covered in bruises. A vertical upwards brush type abrasion
was on her cheek, her left cheek, as I recall,
that was her only head wound. What are you correct?
What do you think? I think that's a hell of
(25:36):
a fall. If you can manage to hit the front
of your legs and the back of your legs and
both the wrists and your face the front and that's
not that's not a fall. You don't fall, that's not
get bruised front and back, not at all. It reminds
me of the Kathleen Savio in the dry bathtub, and
she had bruising everywhere. It looks to me like she
(26:01):
might have had some type of physical fight and then
hit maybe the swim step going in, or maybe the
swim step and part of the deemi like she fell
in between. But again, that doesn't appear completely accidental. Some
of those bruises were fresh, so possibly before she hit
the water. What's happening right now in the investigation? What
(26:26):
why have there are there never been an arrest, well
right now to take because they're actively work in the case.
They have reinterviewed Christopher Walking, they have reinterviewed Um, some
other principal people, and the death certificate have been changed
from accidental drowning to undetermined. So that's very significant to
(26:50):
me that they would make that move. The case goes
on with me, the director of the Cold Case Institute,
Cheryl McCullum, I'm Nancy Grace, Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace presents another episode in our
continuing focus on the Natalie Wood death mystery tomorrow
Host
Nancy Grace
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