November 18, 2025 • 42 mins
A ‘death by blender’ scene has the ladies all stirred up.
They talk murder, motives and the character who was killed off TOO SOON! Plus, did we just watch the best scene of the entire series? Hear who gave an award-worthy performance.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, welcome to Desperately Devoted, the Ultimate Desperate Housewives rewatch,
hosted by me, Terry Hatcher, my on screen daughter Andrea Bowen,
and my real life daughter Emerson Tanna.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, Hi, welcome back here.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We are discussing episode eight, Guilty, and I just have
to say Fred Gerber directed the shit out of this
episode well.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
And maybe no surprise then.
Speaker 5 (00:26):
According to Wikipedia, this was our highest rated episode of
this season thus far.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
It was my highest rated episode in my heart thus far.
Speaker 6 (00:35):
Well, I wonder if that's because of the insanely well edited,
exciting end of the episode, which was where we were
cutting back and forth between Missus Hooper being killed with
the blender that she stole from Mary Alice by Paul
and Mike and Susan having sex for the first time.
(00:55):
I mean, that was hot, hot, hot, But I don't know.
There were a lot of big things that happened in
this episode, and there were big themes like shame and
guilt and religion, and I feel like the question of
you know, does being happy make you selfish? Also, I
think people are looking at like your gut instinct, does
(01:18):
it lead you wrong or right?
Speaker 4 (01:20):
So what stood out to you guys, where should we start?
I love just to dive right in.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
I also love the general theme of this episode. We
have so many characters turning to religion specifically in this episode,
and I was thinking about that a lot, and I
was wondering, like, I think it's human nature to sort
of crave a blueprint in life, you know, we want
to be guided, We want someone to answer these big questions,
(01:47):
like Gabrielle turning to Father Crowley kind of trying to
decipher what is right and wrong. And Susan and Mike
in this episode with trust issues coming up, you know,
with su and kind of snooping a little bit in
Mike's house and kind of what does it? Someone tell
me how and when I can really start to trust someone.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Also have Bri and Rex really grappling with Andrew's lack
of guilt over the car crash and the fact that
he's put Wanita into a coma and kind of saying like,
how have we raised a right sun or how have
we raised our son? Have we done something wrong? I
also love that the opening, the very opening. Mary Alice
(02:29):
says in the beginning of this episode, there is a
widely read book that tells us everyone is a sinner,
and we see that Bible that Brie has. And I
don't think, you know, this show being an American TV
show airing in America, I do not think that it
is a coincidence that the highest rated episode started with
(02:51):
a Bible and ended with sex and murder. That really
feels like it pretty perfectly encapsulates our country, for better
or for worse.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
I don't know what else is there to cover. Those
are the things.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
Yeah, I love that opening scene, and I.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Also loved Okay.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
So it opens with the the Brie and Rex and
the family discussing what are we going to do about
the fact that Andrew, uh, you know, we hit and
possibly killed this woman. And they're all sort of hemming
and hanging about whose fault it is and who has
the better idea, and finally Brie just comes up and
(03:31):
she's the one with the solution. She's We're going to
get rid of the car. This is how we're going
to do it. Bum bum bum bump bum. And it
actually reminded me Reese Witherspoon. I saw her like doing
a lecture at sort of a women's event, and she
was talking about how sometimes in movies the dialogue for
(03:51):
women is so silly, Like they'll be a scenario where
something goes wrong and the woman's dialogue will be like
what should we do? What do you think we should do?
Like the woman never has the solution. And Reese Witherspoon's
at this event and she says to the audience, like,
when have you ever seen a woman in an actual
drama not be the person who knows what to do?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Like the women are always.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
The people that stand up and like have a plan
and get it done and never stop and go go,
go go. I mean I feel like that in my life,
Like I'm I'm never looking to anyone to help me
solve the problem, maybe to my own detriment, But that
kind of cracked me up that that Bree was the
one that was like, of course, you know it's going
(04:37):
to be the woman that's going to solve this, Smara.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Of course, the solution will be to drive the car
to a shady neighborhood and leave the keys in it.
Turning our back to the morally reprehensible implications if someone
steals this car and then ends up getting framed for
murder potential when Needa dies in her coma, Yeah, I think,
(05:01):
of course Brie is the one who had the plan.
And I think it's interesting, Mom that you say that
you always have a plan and that you never ask
for help, because I think that is another big theme
in this episode a lot of different characters. I'm specifically
thinking about Lynette as her add medication addiction that she
(05:22):
really spirals out of her control, her kind of inability,
and then ultimate breakdown fueled by her vision of Mary
Mary Alice in such a kind of haunting and beautiful
and incredibly poetic way, Mary Alice coming to her in
this vision and handing her the gun that she used
in the pilot episode through the windows, this kind of
(05:44):
last I guess to stick with our religion metaphor hail
Mary for what to do to get out of this
spiral that Lynette can't imagine how to get out of.
And ultimately, of course it is when she realizes that
she has to be honest with her friends and ask
for her.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
We just have to linger on this scene because you know,
as as we like to point out, this was two
thousand and four Network television. What a brave and bold
scene to show Lynette completely full crash out mode standing
in the kitchen. She's sleep dep you know, completely sleep deprived.
(06:23):
She's now maybe she's taken something. She went to the
acupuncturist who gave her these you know, holistic, mushroomy things.
She's taken that, which is aiding in this hallucination state
that she's in. But she is completely at her wits end,
totally falling apart. And it's overlaid with that amazing music,
(06:45):
which I know was just like cinematic brilliance to.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Have Len Groovy, so ivon Ellen.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Groovy playing over that.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
Right, The dichotomy of those two things just making this
this moment of TV feel like a pause worthy moment.
I just I just really I think it's the it's
maybe my favorite episode of the season.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
So far, that makes sense.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
I mean, that was just a brilliant scene, and I
loved that Felicity did this little, tiny moment. I'm sure
she did it on purpose, because that's the kind of
actor she is. But she was when she was sitting
at the table initially before she went into what gets
revealed as a dream, she kind of did this thing
of like where she puts her head down. So I
(07:31):
think if you went back and you watched it again,
you would see like, oh, she's asleep, you know. But
I think when you watch it for the first time,
you're a little confused, like is this really happening? Did
she really throw the peanut butter through the through the
window and break it like it's It was edited so well.
(07:51):
This episode was so strongly about guilt and shame that
I asked chat GPT what the difference between guilt and
shame was, Do you guys want to hear what?
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yes, GPT told me.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
I will just coveat this though with chat GPT is
programmed to give you an answer no matter what you
ask it, so sometimes if you ask chat GPT something,
it will give you an incorrect answer, as opposed to
saying I don't know. I'm not saying that this isn't
the case of guilt or shame, but I was just
talking about this the other day with a friend and
I was like, I have to remember that I shouldn't
(08:25):
always be turning to chat GPT for answers about complex
questions because sometimes it just makes shit up.
Speaker 6 (08:31):
Wow, I'm not sure this is one of those times,
but you be judge for yourself. Okay, So what it
said was it said that guilt was focused on behavior,
like I did something bad, I lied, and I regret it,
And guilt tends to motivate a person to have reparations,
like an apology or making amends. But shame is I
(08:57):
am bad, and it focuses on self, like I lied
and I'm a terrible person. And I just thought that
was fascinating. The difference between owning like this deep seated
I'm a terrible person as opposed to I did something bad,
I should fix it. And do you know, I think
(09:19):
of myself as somebody who.
Speaker 7 (09:23):
I try not to.
Speaker 6 (09:26):
Let guilt drive my life because I do feel in general,
like guilt is a waste of time, you know, like
like it's almost you know, you're just ruminating on something,
but you're and you're punishing yourself, but you're not really
fixing anything. You're not really solving anything. It just and
(09:46):
so it feels like a waste of time. But I
like I was the biggest example I had recently, Like
in the last three years, I did take care over
the care of my parents, and initially I was just
giving them one hundred and fifty percent time everything they
needed all the time because I felt guilty I felt
(10:09):
guilty not doing it. I felt guilty saying no. I
felt like everything was sort of like this could be
their last Thanksgiving, this could be the last birthday, this
could be the last day they were alive, like, and
up against that pressure, I just felt like I could
never say no because I thought I would feel guilty,
(10:30):
And ultimately I realized that that was totally not sustainable
and that I had to come around to giving myself
some grace of that was silly for me to feel guilty,
because what I should be feeling is the flip side
of the positive of like, look at what I am
able to do for these two people, look at how
(10:52):
I am able to help. And it's interesting that we
do kind of get caught up in our shortcomings, which
I think happens to Len, which I think is what
leads her down the road of addiction in the first place,
is that she's not looking at what she has done,
which is I've given up my job. I'm taking care
of these four kids and the best way I can.
(11:12):
You know, She's instead going like, I'm not having the
perfect dinner, I'm not having the perfect behaved kids. I'm
not and so that leads her to her addiction problem.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Yeah, and I think it serves in this in this
episode two as a driver for what it can be
when you do acknowledge it or when you just hit
the point where you can no longer hide it. And
that leads us to this the scene in the park
with Susan and Brie where Lynnette says, like, why don't
we tell each other these things?
Speaker 4 (11:44):
You know, which is such a.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
Moving moment for those friendships, but also just as something
in my life going into you know, motherhood or any
sort of struggle that we have in life. It's like, gosh,
when you tap into your community and you.
Speaker 7 (12:00):
And someone says, oh, I've been there.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Oh what it can make you feel.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
The relief that you're you're not carrying this shame around
alone is so is so powerful And how it's interesting
to hear you talk about that Initially a part of
your taking on this chapter of your life of taking
care of your parents was maybe driven by guilt, so
it served as sort of an action item for you
(12:27):
in a way I feel like, and then it evolved
into much more. But the idea that shame, I think
shame is a stealer of action, right, like shame makes
you just stop in a really serious.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
And certain kind of way and isolate and isolate, and
then you're just stuck in that place, which is you know,
for our listeners, like I mean, if you look at
my Instagram and you look at me just as a
normal person, I'm always saying out, get out of your house,
get out into nature, talk to strangers, go be social,
(13:06):
because all of us do feel shame to one level
or another for something in our lives, and that shame
can really keep you closed off, and the lifting of
that is getting out connecting with other people because you
are not alone.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Well, I was going to say, I think guilt, like regret,
can be like you are saying, Andrea, an action item
to do something different. I think guilt that we sit
in turns into shame, which I agree becomes depressive and
actually inhibits action and can become really dangerous because you
(13:46):
start to identify with that complex. I think about something
that my therapist has said in relation to depression. She said,
you know what, actually it's okay to feel depressed, like
when you physically think about what it means to be depressed. Okay,
you were in a setback state where you were slightly
removed from your life, and that can actually really have
(14:06):
its advantages. You can see things more clearly, you can
come up with a plan for how you want to
move into the future. The place where being depressed becomes
dangerous is when you start to identify with depression as
part of your pathology, and then that becomes a complex
that actually prevents you from taking a new action course
(14:30):
and moving back out proactively into your life and into
the world. And so I think it is amazing and
it's such a relief to see Lynette have this scene
with Susan and Brie where you feel the tension of
this secret that she's been keeping and this fact that
she's been struggling dissipate in the ability to just put
(14:54):
it into words and share it with other people. And
I think we can never underestimate the relief you feel
when you share a burden. And I really like encourage
all of us to share those things that we might
feel guilty about before they fester and turn into shame.
Speaker 6 (15:10):
Yeah. Well, something that I don't think is depressing is
Susan and Julie and Mike in this episode.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
There's so much fun counterbalancing the more serious themes in
this episode.
Speaker 6 (15:24):
I think one of my favorite lines I've ever heard,
and I just I'm just going to keep saying it.
Andrew Bowen brilliant child actors like that. I'm just gonna
say it. One of my favorite scenes is so so Sue.
Susan is packing for this overnight We're going to have
sex for the first time trip with Mike, and Julie
(15:46):
is in the bedroom with her, and Julie says, I
want you to go on you know she wants her
to go on this date because she says, no man
has seen you naked in years, and you have to
get out of the house. And she says, because one
day I'm going to have a husband of my own
and I don't want you living with me.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I have to say I was going to say.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
The other line from this same scene that I loved
so much is when Julie says, no man has seen
you naked in yours except your doctor, and then Susan goes, yeah,
and he retired.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
And I have another favorite line from this scene, which
justs me so excited that we all loved this scene
so much, but which is when Susan mentions that she
just doesn't know enough about Mike and that he could
be a hit man for the mob, and Julie responds
with if you really think that, why are you going
on a trip with him?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
And I was a good point, Julie.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Good point is sex in a very long time, so
you know all the reason next well, hit man sex,
you know.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I do think the investigating of what are Mike's motives
we do see Susan snoop around a lot more and
get into some amazing Susan esque physical comedy, such as
finding the money and hiding it from the repairman in
the sink and then falling through the floor of Mike's
unrepaired bathroom, which is just brilliant. I was laughing out
(17:11):
loud with your little legs kicking through.
Speaker 7 (17:13):
The flooring, dangling between the levels.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
But it did bring up for me a kind of
larger question around trust and what does it mean to
trust the people that you're dating.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I think sometimes I fall on the side of I
don't know that.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I think the assumption needs to be that couples always
need to tell each other everything.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I think.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Absolute honesty is not always like not I don't equate
that necessarily with having deep and meaningful trust. And I
think it's interesting how this comes back when Mike eventually
does show up on Susan's doorstep and says, you know,
ask me anything that you want and I'll tell you
whatever it is that you want to know. And Susan says, well,
(18:01):
that's my answer, And of course then that leads to
their beautiful climactic scene of finally sleeping together, which we
can get to. But I'm curious what you think about
this in terms of our relationship. Do you feel like
couple should tell each other everything? Where do you feel
like that line is?
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
We all have a strong right to a personal inner
life that is private. I think that it's only become
more of a debate in relationships because of technology, right,
like having access to each other's phones, or having access
to each other's social media, or even just location sharing.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
You know, where is the line with.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
What access we allow others to have? And I, personally
I would agree Emerson, I kind of fall more or
towards the side of total honesty and access isn't necessarily.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
The healthiest option.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
I think we, like I said, I think we deserve
personal inner lives. But I also think if you have
an instinct in a relationship. I'm speaking romantic relationships, but
I guess in other ones as well. If you have
an instinct that you're wanting to read someone's texts or
you're wanting to snoop through their house, like, pay attention
to that instinct more than doing the thing itself.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
The instinct might be onto something.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I feel like.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I always say that, like I am so and I
have never in a relationship and I never would ask
or ask to go through someone's phone or tolerate anyone
asking to go through my phone, because I have said
to my friends who have had this in that relationship
where they've been like, oh, I just went through his phone.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I've gone to me.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I think the minute you're going through someone's phone, the
relationship's dead. The trust is gone, and what set you
on the path to arrive at that place. It requires
more investigation, I think than whatever may or may not
be on someone's life.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
I was going to say a little bit different was that,
Like I do think it's it's it's an interesting that
you'll hear about, like as people begin to get into relationships,
and which is what Susan Mike are doing, Like as
they're dating. I think you have to hold two things
at once. You have to hold that you are present
(20:29):
and you are moving forward, and you are being vulnerable
and you are trusting that the scenario is going to
unfold in a good way. But you have to also
know that you are strong enough to withstand other information
when it's revealed and do something about it. So not
(20:52):
project the negative, not be afraid of the negative, Like
be positive, be optimistic, but know that that can come
from a sort of resonating strength that is within you.
And I think holding both of those things at once
(21:13):
gives you the best opportunity to find and curate a
positive relationship. You know, I think Susan, if I'm looking
at Susan, I don't know that she is so strong.
I think that she, you know, is quite braill and
fragile and probably leans on Julie too much. And you know,
(21:33):
I feel like one more relationship goes wrong and she's
going to end up, you know, like falling to pieces
and and that's not a good place to begin a
relationship from. If I were Susan's therapist, That's what I
would say.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
And speaking of like we're again, we're kind of talking
about therapy and religions as places to turn to for
when we were having these big questions. So I think
we have to talk about another. He asked the moment
in this episode, which is when Gabrielle and Father Crowley
are in the hospital room and she says, what I
(22:08):
want is to be happy, and he says, that's the
answer of a selfish child.
Speaker 7 (22:14):
And I imagine we all kind of gasped at that.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, I did, I did.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I mean I had two moments I gasped that with
Gabby in this episode. One was her saying we're not
negotiating my uterus to Carlos, who.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Has starting timely.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Oh my god, so timely, which is crazy that twenty
years later, this twenty one years later, this is arguably
more timely than ever. But jumping to the father Crowley conversation,
I really was taken aback by this as well, because
I felt vehemently in my body. I was like, I disagree,
(22:51):
I disagree with this. I do not think that being
happy is selfish, And I actually think it's the story
that we tell ourselves that doing things that make us
happy in our life makes us selfish.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
That can lead to a lot of shame. I think
that we are on this.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
I mean, it's interesting because we could get into religion,
and if either of you are religious, or if you
believe in more traditional ideas of religion, I personally don't.
I fall on much more of a generally spiritual side
of things, where I believe that it is a miracle
to be in a human body and to have the
(23:34):
universe align that we get to be alive in this
moment and experience the world in this tangible way. And
I think a part of the great gift of being
alive is that you are entitled to enjoy your life,
like you are titled to be happy in your life.
And I think so much of the suffering in the
(23:57):
world comes from figures of authority like Father Crowley telling
people that it is selfish to be happy, and I
kind of think, frankly, that's bullshit.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
I agree that moment really struck me as a as
not a good message, you know, coming from somebody in authority. Yeah,
I agree with everything you said. It is so interesting,
isn't it. Like it's so much of our suffering comes
from our own stories, our own self like we do
(24:30):
it to ourselves, we do it to each other, and
I guess it probably leads back to power, people in power,
people who want control, people making rules. I mean, and
these are all things that are.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Oh yeah, you can totally see how a priest telling
a young beautiful woman that being happy makes her selfish
and instead she should do whatever he's going to say
she should do is like, uh, hello.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I see the control happening here.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
Yeah, which, and I guess, like, I think the other
line you brought up in this episode, Emerson, where Carlos
has said in front of Brion Rex that they are
going to start trying to have children, and Gabrielle's like, no,
we're not, and we had already talked about this prior
to getting married, like you knew that I don't feel
(25:19):
that way, And that leads to the button of her saying, well,
my you know, my uterus is not up for negotiation, man. Yeah,
I mean, here we are in twenty twenty five, where
our uteruses are very much up for negotiation evidently. And yeah,
it struck me that this show remains timely unfortunately sometimes
(25:43):
and fortunately in others, you know what, But again, like, wow,
what a bold and brave episode this was. I really
think it's a really cool one just to hone in
on specifically as we're rewatching, I feel like this is
going to stand out as a really specifically the important episode.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I think another thing another storyline that I loved in
this episode that I just do think is obviously worth
talking about because then it coalesces with the storyline of
Mike and Susan finally sleeping together.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Which I do want to hear about, Mom, if you
have any memories, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Okay, But is obviously is Paul realizing that the stationary
is not actually Edie's stationary. And I love the kind
of odd couple dynamic between Edie and Martha Hooper where
she's like, oh, yeah, we steal each other's stuff, and
you come to realize that the note was actually Martha's
and not and.
Speaker 7 (26:38):
She refers to her in this episode as her best friend.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I know, which is is very complex and dad. And
then we have Paul going over to I don't think
he necessarily goes over with the intent of killing Martha Hobber.
I think he is over to get answers and then
gets angry and in a and I'm kind of curious
what you think if there really is such a thing
(27:02):
as a crime of passion and if that is an
excuse for committing a heinous act, because I don't think
it is an excuse, but I do think it can happen,
and we see it happen here, and you already pointed
this out, Mom, But the poetic irony of him killing
her with a very blender that she takes from Mary
Alice in the pilot when she realizes that Mary Alice
(27:24):
is dead and she takes her name off of that blender.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Is fantastic.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
But I feel like, I it was just very interesting
to me how there was the real lot of this episode,
like ramping up alongside all of these more emotional themes and.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
What were you gonna say?
Speaker 6 (27:42):
I feel I was gonna say, there are consequences to
every action, and you know, if Martha hadn't stolen the blender,
it wouldn't have been there for her to be killed with.
And it just wow, right, and it just makes me
also think, you know, like the consequences. I think Bree's
(28:03):
son Andrew is very disappointingly behaving with his consequences of
having run over one Ita, Like he seems to be like, oh,
I'm bummed out. I have to ride my bike now,
like driving the car.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Driving the car by the way that Rex got him
as a kind of like bribe apology for the marital
problems with brit.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
Right by trying to buy his loyalty and his love.
Speaker 6 (28:33):
I want to go back a little bit, just personally,
like for anybody who's ever had their child drive like it,
driving people underestimate. I mean, it's just a very serious responsibility.
Like it's kind of crazy that we let sixteen year
olds do it, like like like right, it actually is
(28:55):
kind of crazy. I understand it. But when you think
about the cognitive ability that somebody at sixteen has and
more importantly doesn't have, and that we're giving them this
weapon really for all intentsive purposes, that to use at
(29:15):
their discretion, it's actually kind of crazy to me. But
when Emerson was first learning to drive, and I I
guess no idea, there's more about me than it does
about you. But so she went to school quite far
from our house, and for all of her school life,
her father and I you know, would would drive her
(29:38):
there and.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
All three freeway tracks.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
There was like an episode of the Californians on Saturday
Night Live. It was like you got to take the
five to the one seventy to the two ten to
the one eighteen, you know.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
What a valley girl.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
So when she was.
Speaker 6 (29:56):
Finally doing that on her own, I chose to follow
her to school on the freeway.
Speaker 7 (30:04):
So like you tail tailed, I tailed her the whole way.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
And then I and then she would give me.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
A report of how well or badly I done the drive.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I mean, granted, I think you all needed this, like
I did.
Speaker 6 (30:18):
I just did a handful of times, and I'm sure
it was more for me, but you know it, the
first couple of times, I was like, I think you
could have turned your blinker on sooner. I think you
could have made that lane change a little sooner so
that you weren't quite so close to the exit, you know.
Speaker 7 (30:33):
I just and I actually thought, like, I don't know
that this is.
Speaker 6 (30:36):
A bad idea because you don't really know how you're
driving from sitting in the car and like having somebody
observe your driving and try to give you like constructive
criticism on what you did well and what you didn't
do well. But anyway, yeah, I was I've never heard
of any other whack adoodle mother doing that that I did.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Emerson.
Speaker 5 (30:57):
Now you have your mom to thank for all of
the discounts you're going to from your insurance company forever,
because you're going to get that good driver discount.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
It's true, Mom's in real time. How's my driving feedback?
Speaker 3 (31:08):
I really do think I pride myself on being a
pretty good driver, but you're right, it is. It is
a huge responsibility thinking about Andrew driving this car, and
of course he's driving the car inebriated, but driving in
any type of emotional state, even if you haven't been
drinking or doing any types of drugs, it is a
huge responsibility to get behind the wheel that I think
(31:30):
we become just totally numb too, because we do it
every day. And I often think when I'm on the
freeway even now, still to this day, I think of
this thing that my dad said to me, which if
anyone is teaching their kids how to drive and they're
following them the way that my mom was, you can
take this piece of parenting driving advice as well. My
(31:51):
dad said to me when I was driving on the freeway,
he was like, you just need to think if your
car is going sixty five miles an hour, seventy miles
an hour down the freeway. All of the organs in
your body are hurdling through space at that velocity.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Too, and it's my mom is like cracking up, dying No.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
But I gotta say, there's something incredibly arresting about thinking
about like your fragile heart and brain, brain and lungs
like hurdling through space at seventy miles an hour and
makes I sometimes do think about it, and I get
a little tripped out, and I'm like, oh, I gotta
be careful. I don't want to abruptly stop all of
my organs hurdling.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
But I have too funny. I have two funny memories
coming to.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
Me that I had experienced on Desperate Housewives, because of
course I learned to drive at some point.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
During my journey on the show.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
And one is I remember driving a golf cart before
ever driving a real car, because we would have to
drive the golf cart, you know, we didn't usually drive
the golf cart to go from our base camper.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Feel empowered?
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Were you like?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Was it fun?
Speaker 7 (33:04):
I think I was so white knuckling that steering.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
Wheel that I don't know if I got to enjoy
it at all.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
But another one is that In a later season, I
Julie goes through a.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Car wash, and there's this scene where she goes through
a car wash.
Speaker 7 (33:17):
And I remember having to drive the car.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
It was one of those car washes where you have
to hook your.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Wheels into and I was a new driver and I
would struggle with that now sometimes lining that up correctly
and getting pulled through.
Speaker 7 (33:32):
Yeah, And I was terrified.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
And I think I embarrassed myself in front of the
entire crew trying to get that thing in those wheels
in the right way.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
I loved you.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
You did not embarrass yourself. The crew loved you. I'm
sure everyone was on your side.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
That's I'm sure they were already.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
You learned to.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Drive during that show.
Speaker 6 (33:48):
God, that you grew up during this is just insane,
you know, circling back to how you started the whole
thing about, you know, wanting to have a plan, and
that's when people looking towards religion for that. It is
(34:13):
really I think that is really true that people struggle
with not having the answers to big things, and I
think hard I think it would be. It's so good
to work on in yourself your comfort with the not knowing,
because the truth is you are never in control, and
(34:35):
you will never know even when you think you do,
you know, like you still don't.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
We're all on this planet with our organs just hurtling
through me.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
Why to keep my little organs tucked away in my
little ripage?
Speaker 5 (34:52):
And I know I keep baking about thinking my child
and my body. I'm like, well, you're going to stay
in there a little bit long, younger than because the
idea of really listening to you talk about driving behind
Emerson to school, Like, I totally understand how that would
make you feel a little bit more sense of control,
even though it's maybe false, but it gives you some
(35:15):
It's so scary and vulnerable to be, like, hey, go
out into the world and be and be vulnerable to others,
you know, others actions. And so now I just think
that I'm going to stay pregnant forever.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Oh wait, jumping back to what you were saying, Mom.
In terms of people turn to religion, they turn to
these widely read books such as the Bible or you
know what, to try to have an idea of this.
There could be a blueprint in the absence of that,
I feel like the three of us are kind of
agreeing that we are not necessarily like religious people in
(35:49):
that sense of our life getting meaning from an organized religion.
What tools do you feel like you, both of you,
either of you carry with you to help you have
the world feel like less of a random and chaotic place.
Speaker 6 (36:06):
Now that's I'm not sure that I do think that
the world is less random and chaotic like I think
part of the giving over to having a sense of
peace with it all is that I lean into understanding
(36:29):
that I don't have control and trying to find my
own comfort in that, and then just being really present
with gratitude for what is, and also responsibility for what
I can do, you know, for the things that I
(36:51):
can control and can do. And I think that's what
helps me. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I'm going to have to keep thinking about that.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
I think for me, I am trying to be better
at paying attention to my body cues than.
Speaker 7 (37:09):
My brain cues always, because.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
I do think there's a lot of truth in the
instincts we feel in life, and my brain will sometimes
work over time to convince me of something when my
body's kind of already told me what I need to know,
But I don't necessarily pay attention.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
To that the same way, and so.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
I think that's a tool I could continue to work
on that I'm certainly experiencing more of in pregnancy, is
listening to my body and trusting what it's trying to
tell me or signal to me, and quieting my brain
a little bit.
Speaker 6 (37:45):
I think also, you know, I'm not interested in ruminating
on questions that can't be answered, you know, And this
is my thing about religion, Like Ricky Gervais has a
couple of great comedic lines that he's said.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Over the years about this, but like.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
I can't know that there isn't a god, and you
can't know that there is one, Like I'm not more
right or less right, and I just feel like it
makes it a non starter. Like I feel like there's
so many non starters that people kind of get hung
up fighting about. Like, if it serves you to create
(38:26):
beliefs that are working for you to have a happy,
positive life, then that's great. Like our behaviors do come
from our beliefs, but our beliefs aren't necessarily the truth.
They aren't necessarily facts, they are beliefs. And so if
(38:47):
you recognize that beliefs you have aren't leading you towards
a happy, productive life, then maybe change your beliefs, you know,
And so I think that's really well Son, Well it
felt a little spongy, I know by the way that
(39:07):
I'm going to miss Missus Hooper. I think that was
maybe a mistake in hindsight, I don't I wonder. I
can't wait till we get to talk to a writer
on this show, because I wonder who made that decision
and why.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
But it felt early.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
It felt it was just too good to cut between
the smashing in the head and the banging against the
wall sexually.
Speaker 6 (39:31):
It was just Susan getting banged and missus Uber getten
banged at the same time.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Wow, yeah, exactly totally though, rip Missus Huber.
Speaker 7 (39:43):
Really yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
Just loved I wanted to know more about her, Like
I don't think I was ready for her to be gone.
Speaker 5 (39:53):
Maybe will continue, Yeah, maybe we'll continue to learn more
and more through through the brilliant use.
Speaker 7 (39:59):
Of flashback, which desperhasfe likes to do.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
And to end on sex.
Speaker 6 (40:03):
You asked Emerson what I remembered about the making out
stuff with Mike and Susan towards the end, and the
truth is not a lot. You know, I feel like,
oh come on, no, okay, Like Jamie and I really
like each other. There is some innate chemistry there for sure,
(40:26):
also a ton of respect.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
It's so weird to shoot.
Speaker 6 (40:29):
Those kinds of scenes because there's uh, you know, crew
and lighting and you know, it's it's it's the opposite
of sexy, if that's what you think. And and for me,
I look at it, it was hard for me to
think that I seemed sexy. Like I don't know, I feel.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Like, well you do, well, all right.
Speaker 6 (40:52):
I love that I have both of you echoing in
that I that I am I am sexy or that
I was. I don't know. It's just it's something that's
so shut down in me. I just it's hard for me.
It's hard for me to perceive it that way.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
But I think, I mean, as a storyteller, I also
just think the scenario whenever there's long built tension and
a character lets themselves have what they want, that's the
sexiest thing ever.
Speaker 5 (41:24):
And no, Father Prowley, that is not selfish.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Oh yeah, that's the point of being alive on this random.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Planet is to have it you want and enjoy it.
Speaker 6 (41:34):
Okay, So those are great parting words, have what you
want and enjoy it and don't feel selfish about it.
So with that, go have what you want, and then
come back next week and tell us all about it,
and share it with your friends and.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Be honest with them.
Speaker 6 (41:50):
Well, I'm desperately desperately devoted to hearing how everybody takes
care of themselves this week, and we will be here
next week.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
So join it because, as always, we are desperately devoted
to you.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
M m hm
Hi, welcome to Desperately Devoted, the Ultimate Desperate Housewives rewatch,
hosted by me, Terry Hatcher, my on screen daughter Andrea Bowen,
and my real life daughter Emerson Tanna.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, Hi, welcome back here.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We are discussing episode eight, Guilty, and I just have
to say Fred Gerber directed the shit out of this
episode well.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
And maybe no surprise then.
Speaker 5 (00:26):
According to Wikipedia, this was our highest rated episode of
this season thus far.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
It was my highest rated episode in my heart thus far.
Speaker 6 (00:35):
Well, I wonder if that's because of the insanely well edited,
exciting end of the episode, which was where we were
cutting back and forth between Missus Hooper being killed with
the blender that she stole from Mary Alice by Paul
and Mike and Susan having sex for the first time.
(00:55):
I mean, that was hot, hot, hot, But I don't know.
There were a lot of big things that happened in
this episode, and there were big themes like shame and
guilt and religion, and I feel like the question of
you know, does being happy make you selfish? Also, I
think people are looking at like your gut instinct, does
(01:18):
it lead you wrong or right?
Speaker 4 (01:20):
So what stood out to you guys, where should we start?
I love just to dive right in.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
I also love the general theme of this episode. We
have so many characters turning to religion specifically in this episode,
and I was thinking about that a lot, and I
was wondering, like, I think it's human nature to sort
of crave a blueprint in life, you know, we want
to be guided, We want someone to answer these big questions,
(01:47):
like Gabrielle turning to Father Crowley kind of trying to
decipher what is right and wrong. And Susan and Mike
in this episode with trust issues coming up, you know,
with su and kind of snooping a little bit in
Mike's house and kind of what does it? Someone tell
me how and when I can really start to trust someone.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Also have Bri and Rex really grappling with Andrew's lack
of guilt over the car crash and the fact that
he's put Wanita into a coma and kind of saying like,
how have we raised a right sun or how have
we raised our son? Have we done something wrong? I
also love that the opening, the very opening. Mary Alice
(02:29):
says in the beginning of this episode, there is a
widely read book that tells us everyone is a sinner,
and we see that Bible that Brie has. And I
don't think, you know, this show being an American TV
show airing in America, I do not think that it
is a coincidence that the highest rated episode started with
(02:51):
a Bible and ended with sex and murder. That really
feels like it pretty perfectly encapsulates our country, for better
or for worse.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
I don't know what else is there to cover. Those
are the things.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
Yeah, I love that opening scene, and I.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Also loved Okay.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
So it opens with the the Brie and Rex and
the family discussing what are we going to do about
the fact that Andrew, uh, you know, we hit and
possibly killed this woman. And they're all sort of hemming
and hanging about whose fault it is and who has
the better idea, and finally Brie just comes up and
(03:31):
she's the one with the solution. She's We're going to
get rid of the car. This is how we're going
to do it. Bum bum bum bump bum. And it
actually reminded me Reese Witherspoon. I saw her like doing
a lecture at sort of a women's event, and she
was talking about how sometimes in movies the dialogue for
(03:51):
women is so silly, Like they'll be a scenario where
something goes wrong and the woman's dialogue will be like
what should we do? What do you think we should do?
Like the woman never has the solution. And Reese Witherspoon's
at this event and she says to the audience, like,
when have you ever seen a woman in an actual
drama not be the person who knows what to do?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Like the women are always.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
The people that stand up and like have a plan
and get it done and never stop and go go,
go go. I mean I feel like that in my life,
Like I'm I'm never looking to anyone to help me
solve the problem, maybe to my own detriment, But that
kind of cracked me up that that Bree was the
one that was like, of course, you know it's going
(04:37):
to be the woman that's going to solve this, Smara.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Of course, the solution will be to drive the car
to a shady neighborhood and leave the keys in it.
Turning our back to the morally reprehensible implications if someone
steals this car and then ends up getting framed for
murder potential when Needa dies in her coma, Yeah, I think,
(05:01):
of course Brie is the one who had the plan.
And I think it's interesting, Mom that you say that
you always have a plan and that you never ask
for help, because I think that is another big theme
in this episode a lot of different characters. I'm specifically
thinking about Lynette as her add medication addiction that she
(05:22):
really spirals out of her control, her kind of inability,
and then ultimate breakdown fueled by her vision of Mary
Mary Alice in such a kind of haunting and beautiful
and incredibly poetic way, Mary Alice coming to her in
this vision and handing her the gun that she used
in the pilot episode through the windows, this kind of
(05:44):
last I guess to stick with our religion metaphor hail
Mary for what to do to get out of this
spiral that Lynette can't imagine how to get out of.
And ultimately, of course it is when she realizes that
she has to be honest with her friends and ask
for her.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
We just have to linger on this scene because you know,
as as we like to point out, this was two
thousand and four Network television. What a brave and bold
scene to show Lynette completely full crash out mode standing
in the kitchen. She's sleep dep you know, completely sleep deprived.
(06:23):
She's now maybe she's taken something. She went to the
acupuncturist who gave her these you know, holistic, mushroomy things.
She's taken that, which is aiding in this hallucination state
that she's in. But she is completely at her wits end,
totally falling apart. And it's overlaid with that amazing music,
(06:45):
which I know was just like cinematic brilliance to.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Have Len Groovy, so ivon Ellen.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Groovy playing over that.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
Right, The dichotomy of those two things just making this
this moment of TV feel like a pause worthy moment.
I just I just really I think it's the it's
maybe my favorite episode of the season.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
So far, that makes sense.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
I mean, that was just a brilliant scene, and I
loved that Felicity did this little, tiny moment. I'm sure
she did it on purpose, because that's the kind of
actor she is. But she was when she was sitting
at the table initially before she went into what gets
revealed as a dream, she kind of did this thing
of like where she puts her head down. So I
(07:31):
think if you went back and you watched it again,
you would see like, oh, she's asleep, you know. But
I think when you watch it for the first time,
you're a little confused, like is this really happening? Did
she really throw the peanut butter through the through the
window and break it like it's It was edited so well.
(07:51):
This episode was so strongly about guilt and shame that
I asked chat GPT what the difference between guilt and
shame was, Do you guys want to hear what?
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yes, GPT told me.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
I will just coveat this though with chat GPT is
programmed to give you an answer no matter what you
ask it, so sometimes if you ask chat GPT something,
it will give you an incorrect answer, as opposed to
saying I don't know. I'm not saying that this isn't
the case of guilt or shame, but I was just
talking about this the other day with a friend and
I was like, I have to remember that I shouldn't
(08:25):
always be turning to chat GPT for answers about complex
questions because sometimes it just makes shit up.
Speaker 6 (08:31):
Wow, I'm not sure this is one of those times,
but you be judge for yourself. Okay, So what it
said was it said that guilt was focused on behavior,
like I did something bad, I lied, and I regret it,
And guilt tends to motivate a person to have reparations,
like an apology or making amends. But shame is I
(08:57):
am bad, and it focuses on self, like I lied
and I'm a terrible person. And I just thought that
was fascinating. The difference between owning like this deep seated
I'm a terrible person as opposed to I did something bad,
I should fix it. And do you know, I think
(09:19):
of myself as somebody who.
Speaker 7 (09:23):
I try not to.
Speaker 6 (09:26):
Let guilt drive my life because I do feel in general,
like guilt is a waste of time, you know, like
like it's almost you know, you're just ruminating on something,
but you're and you're punishing yourself, but you're not really
fixing anything. You're not really solving anything. It just and
(09:46):
so it feels like a waste of time. But I
like I was the biggest example I had recently, Like
in the last three years, I did take care over
the care of my parents, and initially I was just
giving them one hundred and fifty percent time everything they
needed all the time because I felt guilty I felt
(10:09):
guilty not doing it. I felt guilty saying no. I
felt like everything was sort of like this could be
their last Thanksgiving, this could be the last birthday, this
could be the last day they were alive, like, and
up against that pressure, I just felt like I could
never say no because I thought I would feel guilty,
(10:30):
And ultimately I realized that that was totally not sustainable
and that I had to come around to giving myself
some grace of that was silly for me to feel guilty,
because what I should be feeling is the flip side
of the positive of like, look at what I am
able to do for these two people, look at how
(10:52):
I am able to help. And it's interesting that we
do kind of get caught up in our shortcomings, which
I think happens to Len, which I think is what
leads her down the road of addiction in the first place,
is that she's not looking at what she has done,
which is I've given up my job. I'm taking care
of these four kids and the best way I can.
(11:12):
You know, She's instead going like, I'm not having the
perfect dinner, I'm not having the perfect behaved kids. I'm
not and so that leads her to her addiction problem.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Yeah, and I think it serves in this in this
episode two as a driver for what it can be
when you do acknowledge it or when you just hit
the point where you can no longer hide it. And
that leads us to this the scene in the park
with Susan and Brie where Lynnette says, like, why don't
we tell each other these things?
Speaker 4 (11:44):
You know, which is such a.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
Moving moment for those friendships, but also just as something
in my life going into you know, motherhood or any
sort of struggle that we have in life. It's like, gosh,
when you tap into your community and you.
Speaker 7 (12:00):
And someone says, oh, I've been there.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Oh what it can make you feel.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
The relief that you're you're not carrying this shame around
alone is so is so powerful And how it's interesting
to hear you talk about that Initially a part of
your taking on this chapter of your life of taking
care of your parents was maybe driven by guilt, so
it served as sort of an action item for you
(12:27):
in a way I feel like, and then it evolved
into much more. But the idea that shame, I think
shame is a stealer of action, right, like shame makes
you just stop in a really serious.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
And certain kind of way and isolate and isolate, and
then you're just stuck in that place, which is you know,
for our listeners, like I mean, if you look at
my Instagram and you look at me just as a
normal person, I'm always saying out, get out of your house,
get out into nature, talk to strangers, go be social,
(13:06):
because all of us do feel shame to one level
or another for something in our lives, and that shame
can really keep you closed off, and the lifting of
that is getting out connecting with other people because you
are not alone.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Well, I was going to say, I think guilt, like regret,
can be like you are saying, Andrea, an action item
to do something different. I think guilt that we sit
in turns into shame, which I agree becomes depressive and
actually inhibits action and can become really dangerous because you
(13:46):
start to identify with that complex. I think about something
that my therapist has said in relation to depression. She said,
you know what, actually it's okay to feel depressed, like
when you physically think about what it means to be depressed. Okay,
you were in a setback state where you were slightly
removed from your life, and that can actually really have
(14:06):
its advantages. You can see things more clearly, you can
come up with a plan for how you want to
move into the future. The place where being depressed becomes
dangerous is when you start to identify with depression as
part of your pathology, and then that becomes a complex
that actually prevents you from taking a new action course
(14:30):
and moving back out proactively into your life and into
the world. And so I think it is amazing and
it's such a relief to see Lynette have this scene
with Susan and Brie where you feel the tension of
this secret that she's been keeping and this fact that
she's been struggling dissipate in the ability to just put
(14:54):
it into words and share it with other people. And
I think we can never underestimate the relief you feel
when you share a burden. And I really like encourage
all of us to share those things that we might
feel guilty about before they fester and turn into shame.
Speaker 6 (15:10):
Yeah. Well, something that I don't think is depressing is
Susan and Julie and Mike in this episode.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
There's so much fun counterbalancing the more serious themes in
this episode.
Speaker 6 (15:24):
I think one of my favorite lines I've ever heard,
and I just I'm just going to keep saying it.
Andrew Bowen brilliant child actors like that. I'm just gonna
say it. One of my favorite scenes is so so Sue.
Susan is packing for this overnight We're going to have
sex for the first time trip with Mike, and Julie
(15:46):
is in the bedroom with her, and Julie says, I
want you to go on you know she wants her
to go on this date because she says, no man
has seen you naked in years, and you have to
get out of the house. And she says, because one
day I'm going to have a husband of my own
and I don't want you living with me.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I have to say I was going to say.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
The other line from this same scene that I loved
so much is when Julie says, no man has seen
you naked in yours except your doctor, and then Susan goes, yeah,
and he retired.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
And I have another favorite line from this scene, which
justs me so excited that we all loved this scene
so much, but which is when Susan mentions that she
just doesn't know enough about Mike and that he could
be a hit man for the mob, and Julie responds
with if you really think that, why are you going
on a trip with him?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
And I was a good point, Julie.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Good point is sex in a very long time, so
you know all the reason next well, hit man sex,
you know.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I do think the investigating of what are Mike's motives
we do see Susan snoop around a lot more and
get into some amazing Susan esque physical comedy, such as
finding the money and hiding it from the repairman in
the sink and then falling through the floor of Mike's
unrepaired bathroom, which is just brilliant. I was laughing out
(17:11):
loud with your little legs kicking through.
Speaker 7 (17:13):
The flooring, dangling between the levels.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
But it did bring up for me a kind of
larger question around trust and what does it mean to
trust the people that you're dating.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I think sometimes I fall on the side of I
don't know that.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I think the assumption needs to be that couples always
need to tell each other everything.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I think.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Absolute honesty is not always like not I don't equate
that necessarily with having deep and meaningful trust. And I
think it's interesting how this comes back when Mike eventually
does show up on Susan's doorstep and says, you know,
ask me anything that you want and I'll tell you
whatever it is that you want to know. And Susan says, well,
(18:01):
that's my answer, And of course then that leads to
their beautiful climactic scene of finally sleeping together, which we
can get to. But I'm curious what you think about
this in terms of our relationship. Do you feel like
couple should tell each other everything? Where do you feel
like that line is?
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
We all have a strong right to a personal inner
life that is private. I think that it's only become
more of a debate in relationships because of technology, right,
like having access to each other's phones, or having access
to each other's social media, or even just location sharing.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
You know, where is the line with.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
What access we allow others to have? And I, personally
I would agree Emerson, I kind of fall more or
towards the side of total honesty and access isn't necessarily.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
The healthiest option.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
I think we, like I said, I think we deserve
personal inner lives. But I also think if you have
an instinct in a relationship. I'm speaking romantic relationships, but
I guess in other ones as well. If you have
an instinct that you're wanting to read someone's texts or
you're wanting to snoop through their house, like, pay attention
to that instinct more than doing the thing itself.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
The instinct might be onto something.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I feel like.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I always say that, like I am so and I
have never in a relationship and I never would ask
or ask to go through someone's phone or tolerate anyone
asking to go through my phone, because I have said
to my friends who have had this in that relationship
where they've been like, oh, I just went through his phone.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I've gone to me.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I think the minute you're going through someone's phone, the
relationship's dead. The trust is gone, and what set you
on the path to arrive at that place. It requires
more investigation, I think than whatever may or may not
be on someone's life.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
I was going to say a little bit different was that,
Like I do think it's it's it's an interesting that
you'll hear about, like as people begin to get into relationships,
and which is what Susan Mike are doing, Like as
they're dating. I think you have to hold two things
at once. You have to hold that you are present
(20:29):
and you are moving forward, and you are being vulnerable
and you are trusting that the scenario is going to
unfold in a good way. But you have to also
know that you are strong enough to withstand other information
when it's revealed and do something about it. So not
(20:52):
project the negative, not be afraid of the negative, Like
be positive, be optimistic, but know that that can come
from a sort of resonating strength that is within you.
And I think holding both of those things at once
(21:13):
gives you the best opportunity to find and curate a
positive relationship. You know, I think Susan, if I'm looking
at Susan, I don't know that she is so strong.
I think that she, you know, is quite braill and
fragile and probably leans on Julie too much. And you know,
(21:33):
I feel like one more relationship goes wrong and she's
going to end up, you know, like falling to pieces
and and that's not a good place to begin a
relationship from. If I were Susan's therapist, That's what I
would say.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
And speaking of like we're again, we're kind of talking
about therapy and religions as places to turn to for
when we were having these big questions. So I think
we have to talk about another. He asked the moment
in this episode, which is when Gabrielle and Father Crowley
are in the hospital room and she says, what I
(22:08):
want is to be happy, and he says, that's the
answer of a selfish child.
Speaker 7 (22:14):
And I imagine we all kind of gasped at that.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, I did, I did.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I mean I had two moments I gasped that with
Gabby in this episode. One was her saying we're not
negotiating my uterus to Carlos, who.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Has starting timely.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Oh my god, so timely, which is crazy that twenty
years later, this twenty one years later, this is arguably
more timely than ever. But jumping to the father Crowley conversation,
I really was taken aback by this as well, because
I felt vehemently in my body. I was like, I disagree,
(22:51):
I disagree with this. I do not think that being
happy is selfish, And I actually think it's the story
that we tell ourselves that doing things that make us
happy in our life makes us selfish.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
That can lead to a lot of shame. I think
that we are on this.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
I mean, it's interesting because we could get into religion,
and if either of you are religious, or if you
believe in more traditional ideas of religion, I personally don't.
I fall on much more of a generally spiritual side
of things, where I believe that it is a miracle
to be in a human body and to have the
(23:34):
universe align that we get to be alive in this
moment and experience the world in this tangible way. And
I think a part of the great gift of being
alive is that you are entitled to enjoy your life,
like you are titled to be happy in your life.
And I think so much of the suffering in the
(23:57):
world comes from figures of authority like Father Crowley telling
people that it is selfish to be happy, and I
kind of think, frankly, that's bullshit.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
I agree that moment really struck me as a as
not a good message, you know, coming from somebody in authority. Yeah,
I agree with everything you said. It is so interesting,
isn't it. Like it's so much of our suffering comes
from our own stories, our own self like we do
(24:30):
it to ourselves, we do it to each other, and
I guess it probably leads back to power, people in power,
people who want control, people making rules. I mean, and
these are all things that are.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Oh yeah, you can totally see how a priest telling
a young beautiful woman that being happy makes her selfish
and instead she should do whatever he's going to say
she should do is like, uh, hello.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I see the control happening here.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
Yeah, which, and I guess, like, I think the other
line you brought up in this episode, Emerson, where Carlos
has said in front of Brion Rex that they are
going to start trying to have children, and Gabrielle's like, no,
we're not, and we had already talked about this prior
to getting married, like you knew that I don't feel
(25:19):
that way, And that leads to the button of her saying, well,
my you know, my uterus is not up for negotiation, man. Yeah,
I mean, here we are in twenty twenty five, where
our uteruses are very much up for negotiation evidently. And yeah,
it struck me that this show remains timely unfortunately sometimes
(25:43):
and fortunately in others, you know what, But again, like, wow,
what a bold and brave episode this was. I really
think it's a really cool one just to hone in
on specifically as we're rewatching, I feel like this is
going to stand out as a really specifically the important episode.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I think another thing another storyline that I loved in
this episode that I just do think is obviously worth
talking about because then it coalesces with the storyline of
Mike and Susan finally sleeping together.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Which I do want to hear about, Mom, if you
have any memories, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Okay, But is obviously is Paul realizing that the stationary
is not actually Edie's stationary. And I love the kind
of odd couple dynamic between Edie and Martha Hooper where
she's like, oh, yeah, we steal each other's stuff, and
you come to realize that the note was actually Martha's
and not and.
Speaker 7 (26:38):
She refers to her in this episode as her best friend.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I know, which is is very complex and dad. And
then we have Paul going over to I don't think
he necessarily goes over with the intent of killing Martha Hobber.
I think he is over to get answers and then
gets angry and in a and I'm kind of curious
what you think if there really is such a thing
(27:02):
as a crime of passion and if that is an
excuse for committing a heinous act, because I don't think
it is an excuse, but I do think it can happen,
and we see it happen here, and you already pointed
this out, Mom, But the poetic irony of him killing
her with a very blender that she takes from Mary
Alice in the pilot when she realizes that Mary Alice
(27:24):
is dead and she takes her name off of that blender.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Is fantastic.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
But I feel like, I it was just very interesting
to me how there was the real lot of this episode,
like ramping up alongside all of these more emotional themes and.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
What were you gonna say?
Speaker 6 (27:42):
I feel I was gonna say, there are consequences to
every action, and you know, if Martha hadn't stolen the blender,
it wouldn't have been there for her to be killed with.
And it just wow, right, and it just makes me
also think, you know, like the consequences. I think Bree's
(28:03):
son Andrew is very disappointingly behaving with his consequences of
having run over one Ita, Like he seems to be like, oh,
I'm bummed out. I have to ride my bike now,
like driving the car.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Driving the car by the way that Rex got him
as a kind of like bribe apology for the marital
problems with brit.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
Right by trying to buy his loyalty and his love.
Speaker 6 (28:33):
I want to go back a little bit, just personally,
like for anybody who's ever had their child drive like it,
driving people underestimate. I mean, it's just a very serious responsibility.
Like it's kind of crazy that we let sixteen year
olds do it, like like like right, it actually is
(28:55):
kind of crazy. I understand it. But when you think
about the cognitive ability that somebody at sixteen has and
more importantly doesn't have, and that we're giving them this
weapon really for all intentsive purposes, that to use at
(29:15):
their discretion, it's actually kind of crazy to me. But
when Emerson was first learning to drive, and I I
guess no idea, there's more about me than it does
about you. But so she went to school quite far
from our house, and for all of her school life,
her father and I you know, would would drive her
(29:38):
there and.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
All three freeway tracks.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
There was like an episode of the Californians on Saturday
Night Live. It was like you got to take the
five to the one seventy to the two ten to
the one eighteen, you know.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
What a valley girl.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
So when she was.
Speaker 6 (29:56):
Finally doing that on her own, I chose to follow
her to school on the freeway.
Speaker 7 (30:04):
So like you tail tailed, I tailed her the whole way.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
And then I and then she would give me.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
A report of how well or badly I done the drive.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I mean, granted, I think you all needed this, like
I did.
Speaker 6 (30:18):
I just did a handful of times, and I'm sure
it was more for me, but you know it, the
first couple of times, I was like, I think you
could have turned your blinker on sooner. I think you
could have made that lane change a little sooner so
that you weren't quite so close to the exit, you know.
Speaker 7 (30:33):
I just and I actually thought, like, I don't know
that this is.
Speaker 6 (30:36):
A bad idea because you don't really know how you're
driving from sitting in the car and like having somebody
observe your driving and try to give you like constructive
criticism on what you did well and what you didn't
do well. But anyway, yeah, I was I've never heard
of any other whack adoodle mother doing that that I did.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Emerson.
Speaker 5 (30:57):
Now you have your mom to thank for all of
the discounts you're going to from your insurance company forever,
because you're going to get that good driver discount.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
It's true, Mom's in real time. How's my driving feedback?
Speaker 3 (31:08):
I really do think I pride myself on being a
pretty good driver, but you're right, it is. It is
a huge responsibility thinking about Andrew driving this car, and
of course he's driving the car inebriated, but driving in
any type of emotional state, even if you haven't been
drinking or doing any types of drugs, it is a
huge responsibility to get behind the wheel that I think
(31:30):
we become just totally numb too, because we do it
every day. And I often think when I'm on the
freeway even now, still to this day, I think of
this thing that my dad said to me, which if
anyone is teaching their kids how to drive and they're
following them the way that my mom was, you can
take this piece of parenting driving advice as well. My
(31:51):
dad said to me when I was driving on the freeway,
he was like, you just need to think if your
car is going sixty five miles an hour, seventy miles
an hour down the freeway. All of the organs in
your body are hurdling through space at that velocity.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Too, and it's my mom is like cracking up, dying No.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
But I gotta say, there's something incredibly arresting about thinking
about like your fragile heart and brain, brain and lungs
like hurdling through space at seventy miles an hour and
makes I sometimes do think about it, and I get
a little tripped out, and I'm like, oh, I gotta
be careful. I don't want to abruptly stop all of
my organs hurdling.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
But I have too funny. I have two funny memories
coming to.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
Me that I had experienced on Desperate Housewives, because of
course I learned to drive at some point.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
During my journey on the show.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
And one is I remember driving a golf cart before
ever driving a real car, because we would have to
drive the golf cart, you know, we didn't usually drive
the golf cart to go from our base camper.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Feel empowered?
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Were you like?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Was it fun?
Speaker 7 (33:04):
I think I was so white knuckling that steering.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
Wheel that I don't know if I got to enjoy
it at all.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
But another one is that In a later season, I
Julie goes through a.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Car wash, and there's this scene where she goes through
a car wash.
Speaker 7 (33:17):
And I remember having to drive the car.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
It was one of those car washes where you have
to hook your.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Wheels into and I was a new driver and I
would struggle with that now sometimes lining that up correctly
and getting pulled through.
Speaker 7 (33:32):
Yeah, And I was terrified.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
And I think I embarrassed myself in front of the
entire crew trying to get that thing in those wheels
in the right way.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
I loved you.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
You did not embarrass yourself. The crew loved you. I'm
sure everyone was on your side.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
That's I'm sure they were already.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
You learned to.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Drive during that show.
Speaker 6 (33:48):
God, that you grew up during this is just insane,
you know, circling back to how you started the whole
thing about, you know, wanting to have a plan, and
that's when people looking towards religion for that. It is
(34:13):
really I think that is really true that people struggle
with not having the answers to big things, and I
think hard I think it would be. It's so good
to work on in yourself your comfort with the not knowing,
because the truth is you are never in control, and
(34:35):
you will never know even when you think you do,
you know, like you still don't.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
We're all on this planet with our organs just hurtling
through me.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
Why to keep my little organs tucked away in my
little ripage?
Speaker 5 (34:52):
And I know I keep baking about thinking my child
and my body. I'm like, well, you're going to stay
in there a little bit long, younger than because the
idea of really listening to you talk about driving behind
Emerson to school, Like, I totally understand how that would
make you feel a little bit more sense of control,
even though it's maybe false, but it gives you some
(35:15):
It's so scary and vulnerable to be, like, hey, go
out into the world and be and be vulnerable to others,
you know, others actions. And so now I just think
that I'm going to stay pregnant forever.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Oh wait, jumping back to what you were saying, Mom.
In terms of people turn to religion, they turn to
these widely read books such as the Bible or you
know what, to try to have an idea of this.
There could be a blueprint in the absence of that,
I feel like the three of us are kind of
agreeing that we are not necessarily like religious people in
(35:49):
that sense of our life getting meaning from an organized religion.
What tools do you feel like you, both of you,
either of you carry with you to help you have
the world feel like less of a random and chaotic place.
Speaker 6 (36:06):
Now that's I'm not sure that I do think that
the world is less random and chaotic like I think
part of the giving over to having a sense of
peace with it all is that I lean into understanding
(36:29):
that I don't have control and trying to find my
own comfort in that, and then just being really present
with gratitude for what is, and also responsibility for what
I can do, you know, for the things that I
(36:51):
can control and can do. And I think that's what
helps me. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I'm going to have to keep thinking about that.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
I think for me, I am trying to be better
at paying attention to my body cues than.
Speaker 7 (37:09):
My brain cues always, because.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
I do think there's a lot of truth in the
instincts we feel in life, and my brain will sometimes
work over time to convince me of something when my
body's kind of already told me what I need to know,
But I don't necessarily pay attention.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
To that the same way, and so.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
I think that's a tool I could continue to work
on that I'm certainly experiencing more of in pregnancy, is
listening to my body and trusting what it's trying to
tell me or signal to me, and quieting my brain
a little bit.
Speaker 6 (37:45):
I think also, you know, I'm not interested in ruminating
on questions that can't be answered, you know, And this
is my thing about religion, Like Ricky Gervais has a
couple of great comedic lines that he's said.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Over the years about this, but like.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
I can't know that there isn't a god, and you
can't know that there is one, Like I'm not more
right or less right, and I just feel like it
makes it a non starter. Like I feel like there's
so many non starters that people kind of get hung
up fighting about. Like, if it serves you to create
(38:26):
beliefs that are working for you to have a happy,
positive life, then that's great. Like our behaviors do come
from our beliefs, but our beliefs aren't necessarily the truth.
They aren't necessarily facts, they are beliefs. And so if
(38:47):
you recognize that beliefs you have aren't leading you towards
a happy, productive life, then maybe change your beliefs, you know,
And so I think that's really well Son, Well it
felt a little spongy, I know by the way that
(39:07):
I'm going to miss Missus Hooper. I think that was
maybe a mistake in hindsight, I don't I wonder. I
can't wait till we get to talk to a writer
on this show, because I wonder who made that decision
and why.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
But it felt early.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
It felt it was just too good to cut between
the smashing in the head and the banging against the
wall sexually.
Speaker 6 (39:31):
It was just Susan getting banged and missus Uber getten
banged at the same time.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Wow, yeah, exactly totally though, rip Missus Huber.
Speaker 7 (39:43):
Really yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
Just loved I wanted to know more about her, Like
I don't think I was ready for her to be gone.
Speaker 5 (39:53):
Maybe will continue, Yeah, maybe we'll continue to learn more
and more through through the brilliant use.
Speaker 7 (39:59):
Of flashback, which desperhasfe likes to do.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
And to end on sex.
Speaker 6 (40:03):
You asked Emerson what I remembered about the making out
stuff with Mike and Susan towards the end, and the
truth is not a lot. You know, I feel like,
oh come on, no, okay, Like Jamie and I really
like each other. There is some innate chemistry there for sure,
(40:26):
also a ton of respect.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
It's so weird to shoot.
Speaker 6 (40:29):
Those kinds of scenes because there's uh, you know, crew
and lighting and you know, it's it's it's the opposite
of sexy, if that's what you think. And and for me,
I look at it, it was hard for me to
think that I seemed sexy. Like I don't know, I feel.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Like, well you do, well, all right.
Speaker 6 (40:52):
I love that I have both of you echoing in
that I that I am I am sexy or that
I was. I don't know. It's just it's something that's
so shut down in me. I just it's hard for me.
It's hard for me to perceive it that way.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
But I think, I mean, as a storyteller, I also
just think the scenario whenever there's long built tension and
a character lets themselves have what they want, that's the
sexiest thing ever.
Speaker 5 (41:24):
And no, Father Prowley, that is not selfish.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Oh yeah, that's the point of being alive on this random.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Planet is to have it you want and enjoy it.
Speaker 6 (41:34):
Okay, So those are great parting words, have what you
want and enjoy it and don't feel selfish about it.
So with that, go have what you want, and then
come back next week and tell us all about it,
and share it with your friends and.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Be honest with them.
Speaker 6 (41:50):
Well, I'm desperately desperately devoted to hearing how everybody takes
care of themselves this week, and we will be here
next week.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
So join it because, as always, we are desperately devoted
to you.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
M m hm
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