Why Do We Fight So Much? (with Randy Scott Slavin)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm hester Prynn, DJ and licensed therapist. This is Music
is Therapy. Your session starts now. I interviewed my husband
about our relationship for this podcast. Am I insane? Probably?
But we've been married for twelve years and I had questions.
This month, we're talking about relationships from dating to long

(00:23):
term love with amazing guests like Demona Hoffman, Mark Groves
and living legend Dan Savage. Oh my god, and I'm
starting with my own marriage because honestly, we fight all
the time, and until recently, I didn't really know why. Look,
I'm a couple's therapist. I see couples every week. I
know the theories, I know the language, I know what
I'm supposed to say, and yet in my own relationship,

(00:46):
I don't have this one figured out. So I invited
my husband, Randy to the iHeart Studio. We've been married
twelve years, and I wanted to ask him on camera,
why do we fight so much? What are we actually
building together? And do you still want to choose this?
You still want to choose me? Also real talk. I
never get his undivided attention and I always want it.

(01:06):
So I invited him here because I knew he would
have to pay attention to me. Is that embarrassing? Yes?
Is it true? Also? Yes, So we did couple's therapy
on tape. If you're my patient and you're running screaming
right now, well that's good. Just stay with me, because
here's what I discovered. We don't actually have a shared

(01:29):
vision for this marriage. We have careers and we have
a kid. We know we're moving back to the city,
but when it came to what we're building emotionally, we
had no idea, which explains a lot. I ask him
if he loves me. The answer is complicated, and that's
the work staying present when you ask the hard questions,
not running when it gets uncomfortable. If you've ever loved

(01:51):
someone and thought, why is this still so hard? This
episode is for you. But before we get there, let
me tell you about the song that keeps me present
when I want to check out. It's Magic Man by Heart.
I play this song in my head when I need
to shift my state with my husband. Like life is hard, right,
living with another person is hard, And most of these

(02:12):
there's a million things to do and he's there and
I don't know. Maybe I'm annoyed about something stupid and
in that moment, I have a choice. I can be
reactive and you know, kind of snappy, or I can
shift my state. So I play magic Man like in
my head and something changes. I remember and feel that
he's still the person that I fell in love with.

(02:34):
I feel how we have good chemistry. I remember I
actually think he's really hot, which I do. The song
gives me access to a different version of myself, and
then I show up differently. That's the whole point of
the show. Music changes your state chemically, and when you
change your state, you change what you can create. I
like that that rhymes. In January, we talked about money,

(02:55):
and this month it's love, same principal, different playlist. Randy
and I met through music. In twenty ten. I wrote
a song called can We Go Wrong? It was about
breaking up with my then boyfriend. I wrote this whole
song about ending it, and around the same time, I
got twenty ten tattooed right here in Roman numerals on
my wrist. It was at south By Southwest twenty ten.
I remember I thought it was going to be a

(03:17):
big year for my career, and then a few weeks
later I'm on tour Retigan and Sarah and I'm sitting
in the front seat of this van and I turned
to my friend Erin and I say, I need a
really next level music video for this song, but like,
how am I going to get that? And then before
she can answer me, my phone beeps and I get
a text from this guy, Randy. I knew he was
like a music video director, you know, and he writes,

(03:40):
I heard your song. I have an idea for a
music video. I turned to Erin, I'm like, should I
go meet this guy? She's like, yes, but don't go
to Williamsburg to meet him. We like assumed he lived
in Williamsburg and I'm like, okay, fine, I can meet you,
but I'll meet you in Midtown. It turns out we
lived a block away from each other, and his apartment
looked into mine. So the song I wrote about leaving

(04:04):
someone else is what brought me to the person that
I'd spent my life with. When people ask me about
the Tutoo now, I always say twenty ten, That's the
year I met my husband. Randy. Scott Slavin is an
award winning director, an Emmy nominated aerial cinematographer, and the
founder of the New York City Drone Film Festival. He's
worked with Olivia Rodrigo, Post Malone, the Foo Fighters, and me.

(04:28):
Here's my conversation with my husband Randy. How's it going?
Speak into the mic.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
How's our marriage going on? How am I doing?

Speaker 1 (04:36):
How's our marriage going?

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well? Probably both because they're very tightly interest twice.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
How's our marriage going?

Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think it's going well. I've never been married before,
so I'm not sure, but this one seems to be
going fine. And that we're still together, and yeah, I
don't know. Everything's good.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Okay, Right, Well, we're gonna get into it. Why don't we?
Why don't we start with how we met? We met
around music. This is music is therapy. So we met
around music. Di I did a music video for me
for a song called can We Go Wrong? And what's
special about that music video besides the fact that it
won some awards and it helped my career a lot,
is that you took how many photos of me?

Speaker 2 (05:11):
I think like north of twelve thousand.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, I think it was about thirteen thousand. Why did
you take so many photos of me?

Speaker 2 (05:17):
As a director, I'm like always trying to, I guess
create work. That's kind of interesting and new and different,
and at that point I was super into live action
stop motion and when I heard your song, I was
actually on a scout for another music video with a
friend of mine, and I thought the song was like

(05:38):
super interesting and really cool and very awesome, and that's
when I reached out. And part of the reason why
I was interested in you romantically is because our creative
collaboration was so fun and you were just so down
like live action stop motion. For those that don't know,
is you know many many pictures one after another to

(05:58):
simulate action, and you were just down to do this
crazy creative idea and it's like that was really fun.
It was really fun. It took a lot of time
to make happen. You were like on the ground in
Central Park. You know. Check out the video. I'm sure
she can.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
I'm gonna link it to the show notes. So I
did get Ringworm on that music video shoot, and then
what's his name? The director who do we like? From Boston?
Eli Roth loved the video and you told him that
I got Ringworm making that video and he was very impressed.
So I chose the song Pictures of You by the
Cure to be our wedding song inspired by that music video?

(06:38):
Did you know that I did that?

Speaker 2 (06:40):
I know that I'm not crazy about that song, but
I mean it's for you. I mean really, it's like
if that's what makes you think of me and you
like that. I mean, I don't hate the song, but
it just doesn't really like float my boat and musically.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yes. Okay, So what's let's talk about our relationship?

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Okay, so funny.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
I've interviewed so many people and this it feels so awkward. Okay,
what has surprised you the most about long term love
with me?

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Like?

Speaker 1 (07:10):
What did you not expect? And by the way, I
want you to be really honest in this interview.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Cool, that's what I'm planning on doing.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
I think the biggest and was shocking part about I
guess a real long term, committed relationship is just the
amount of responsibility and I guess the reality of it.
I had spent the majority of my life before meeting
you in relationships and living my life as a creative

(07:40):
and whatever else I was doing, and it just never
really seemed that serious overall, you know, knock Wood. I mean, like, thankfully,
I just never had to deal with anything that was
like just that serious. And I think, you know, when
you really commit yourself to another person, the specter of

(08:02):
responsibility is real and all of a sudden, like real
life kind of like hits in a way. That's that
is you know. I mean you have to show up
for the challenge or not, and then you're not a
part of it anymore, or you're just a delinquent. But
I mean, like I guess, just the weight of responsibility
to want to to another person, to the choices that

(08:24):
you make a lah you know aka children, yeah, or
child in our case, what do you what.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Does it means to have a responsibility to another person?
Like what does that mean to you? Specifically?

Speaker 2 (08:35):
You can't sweep anything under the carpet. It's this is
just it's like it's it. It will just fester and grow.
There's no leaving that, you know. It's like I feel
like when you're dealing by yourself, you can delude yourself,
you can run away from things, but it's like there's
an element of accountability. I feel like that when you
are dealing with another person where it's like all of

(08:57):
a sudden, it's like you're attached and it's like that's
challenging period full stop.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Do you mean like your words and your actions.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, your words and your actions and your desires for
this lifetime. I mean, I don't know whether it's interesting.
It's like pointing out some things about me that I
kind of don't really think about too often. But it's
like I'm not like the most serious person ever. It's like,
in some ways I'm quite serious, in other places I'm not.
And I never really took life that seriously or that hard.

(09:31):
I've just kind of been like floating around and enjoying
myself and trying to make cool things and trying to
be present with people and have good experiences and things
like that. And I think that the responsibility of a
relationship and the family and things like that are just
kind of like very interesting, very real, grounded challenges that

(09:54):
I've had to do my best to kind of like
suss out and then live up to.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
It sounds not that fun.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's not that it's not much not fun, but it's
just real, and it's like, you know, it's easier, I think,
to dance around and to just do whatever you want
and to not have any attachments and to not have
any real responsibilities. So in that way, it's not more fun.
But that being said, you know, the things that I
think about in my life that really move me to

(10:21):
tears are more about those things. It's about like our
family and about our daughter, and you know, it's like
I wouldn't necessarily say that about most other things in
my life. So in that capacity it is very meaningful.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
I am a couple of therapists, as people know on
the show and as you know, and I talk to
my patients my couples about us like all the time
because I'm a postmodern therapist and people can find me
and they know, you know, I'm DJ has to print
and I'm on all the radio and all these things.
And so because of that, I really try to question
how I show up in this marriage, which I didn't

(10:59):
really do a couple of years ago. I was I
was just showing up and hoping for the best, not
always on my best behavior, and I try to really
walk the walk. And what that means to me is
that I asked this question all the time. I asked
this question, why do we fight so much? Okay, I
asked that question myself, why do we fucking fight so much?

(11:19):
Because we fight so much? Why do we fight so much.
Obviously we have a great chemistry and that's really important.
But when I was preparing for this interview, I was like,
I'm going to put in a sentence why I think
we fight so much, and I want to read it
to you after what you just said. Ready, So the
tension between who you want to be and like who

(11:40):
you have to be to keep the life the life running.
So like, we just spent all weekend at fred again, right,
which was amazing, dancing and losing ourselves in the music
and all this, and then Monday morning it's school drop
off and it's meal planning and it's all the regular shit.
So like the part of you that wants to be
at the rave versus a part of you that has

(12:01):
to be a responsible adult. Not you, me, both of us.
That's why we fight so much. That's what I think.
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (12:14):
I agree that I think the real life stuff is
not the most fun stuff. I think that it's important.
And in listening to one of your interviews with David
Gallis recently, you know you kind of were talking about
like the idea of like missing certain things in life
because you were just like running for some like larger thing,

(12:37):
and I think that I do feel a certain solace
in the kind of like the every day and that,
like I feel like showing up in your everyday life
is really important when it comes down to real meaning.
You know. It's like I see that all the time
when it comes to Zoe, our daughter, where it's like,
you know, I'm with her, and it's like i'd sometimes

(12:59):
I would rather somewhere in my brain be doing some
kind of work, working on some kind of project that
I'm working on, but it's like it's a very quick
jump to no, this is actually meaningful and awesome, and
it's like, even though I have stuff that I need
to get done, it's important. That was a little bit

(13:20):
divergent that your question about why we fight so much,
I think is because we're both very big personalities who
require a lot of I wouldn't say attention, but a
lot of time to do the various things that we
need to do. And you know, dealing with other people
is a subtle kind of hell and the idea of
dealing with responsibility with another person is even more hellish.

(13:44):
You know. It's like it's much easier to not have
that responsibility or frankly, in a very human way to
have somebody else around that you can blame all that
shit on.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
So is that why we fight? Because like it doesn't
sound like we're agreeing about this, because I feel like
why do we fight? Because like I want to be
having fun and I feel like there's so much like
stupid bullshit that we have to do and somehow I
I and I hear this like with my couples too,
like somebody has to be like the designated driver kind
of okay, And I feel like in some ways I'm

(14:18):
the designated driver in our life and then in some
ways I'm completely like a hot mess and that balance
is really hard for me to manage all the time,
Like I forget shit all the time. I'm like leaving
stuff all the time, but yet I make all these
really big important decisions. And like I think having someone
else be witnessed to how much of like a mess
I am a lot of the time versus how like

(14:39):
responsible I am a lot of the time. Like I
don't want you to see that, Like I hate that
you get to like see the whole thing and judge me,
and maybe I'm projecting my own judgment onto you. Why
do you it doesn't sound like we're It doesn't sound
like that's why you think we fight, Like, why do
you think we fight all the time?

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Because we're two big personalities who have to deal with
the bunch of shit we don't want to deal with
and that's annoying.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
So then why would that make us fight? Because like
it makes you angry and annoyed and resentful.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, because I don't want to do certain shit anyway,
and you're there and it's like we look. I think
responsibility is really a relationship killer in a lot of ways.
I'm sure that there's some stage wisdom that tells you
that you know responsibility and the ability to deal with

(15:29):
that is probably an involved human is probably the crux
and most important part of a relationship. So I totally
reserve the possibility of being completely and utterly wrong on this,
but I think that like part of what it means
to be an artist is to be liitting around like
a like a butterfly and seeing things and enjoying things

(15:53):
and dealing with things, and a lot of the annoying
parts of life, like dealing with your taxes or paying
your bills or paying your health insurance on time, is
just a chafe. And you know, as much as I
love our daughter, she's totally amazing, and you know she's great,

(16:16):
it's a chaf to deal with all the bullshit that
you know. I don't want to wake up at six
pot fifty in the morning so I can cook eggs
for her. But you know what, I'd rather do that
than stay in bed, because I want to spend time
with her cooking eggs, even if she's not stoked to
be there with me first thing in the morning, because
she doesn't want to do that either. She would rather
sleep late and go to school late.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
And why does that equal? We fight so much.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Because this is annoying and it's like you're it's like
that stuff is annoying to me, so I'm not in
a good mood, and then you come in and you're
annoyed in another way. And then as soon as that happens,
we're both chafed on that front, and we're both super
wound up all the time. Also because we're big personalities,
and it's like, I think both of us would prefer
to wake up in the morning and have somebody there

(16:59):
who has prepared breakfast for us. We'll clean all that
stuff up and everything is totally fine and whatever, but
that's just not how life is. As a pipe dream, well.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
That's not a pipe dream. We could do that. I
don't want it. People in Mahasa.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well, for most people, that's a pipe dream. For reality,
that's a pipe dream. I mean, look, if you have
a massive amount of money and you can pay staff
to do all that stuff, then you don't have to
deal with that chafe. But that being said, and this
is where I was kind of coming from before with
like the kind of stage wisdom aspect of it. It's like,

(17:33):
these kind of things, these are the real things. And
it's like if you pay somebody else to deal with
the real things, in the same way that if you
have enough money to pay for a nanny for your
child's entire life, then you don't get to do that
stuff with them, and it's somebody else's kid, really, because
that's the deal, you know. And probably when we reach
a point in our lives where it's like we've been

(17:56):
together enough where we don't fight anymore, which is probably
just like uh, you know what, Julie, she'd or hesta
for those of you Julie, that's her bullshit and it
doesn't rub me the wrong way anymore. It's like we'll
be in a new place and then that annoyance will
converted into sage wisdom, and our story about each other

(18:16):
will be more about the idea of you know, It's like,
this is what happens. People come together, they decide to
build a life together. It's a total chaf and then
all of a sudden they get used to it, and
then that becomes the real foundation of the relationship.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Okay, here's let me let me let me change this
a little. If you if this is why you think
we fight, I'm with it because basically, like you didn't say,
we fight because I hate you, or because you suck
or because you're a bad communicator, which is what every
couple who comes to me says. When I do couple's therapy. Right,
here's some here's some info. I do a session with

(18:52):
the couple together and everybody plays find the bad Guy,
and then I do one with this member and one
with the other member, and that it's the alone session
is where I find out if we have any of
the really big problems, like is somebody cheating? Is really
what I'm looking for? And then they come together for
the fourth session, and we make a plan. So I'm
sort of doing that with us, So I'm like, okay,
why do we fight so much? And then we had

(19:14):
the one on one session. You didn't say any big things.
You're basically like, I don't like that I have to
be a responsible adult and you're there and I'm in
a bad mood, and I said basically the same thing.
I'm like, I don't like that I can't just like
do whatever I want and you have to watch me
be a hot mess and so that annoys me. So
these are not huge problems right when you imagine us
at our best, like your vision for our relationship, because

(19:38):
this show is about state change, and the first thing
in state change is you got to make a dream.
You gotta have a vision, and then you change or
chemistry to match a vision you walk into it. So
this is a really important question. So please like, what's
like your dream for our marriage? What is your dream
for our relationship? And it's not We get through this
and then at the end we look at each other
and we're like, yeah, hi five, we did it. Like
what is your dream?

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Like?

Speaker 1 (19:57):
How could we what would be like the best way
we could do this? Our life is not that stressful.
It's like totally normal level stress. What's your dream for
our best or your vision for our best marriage?

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Well, first of all, I have to say I don't
dream about that, so I need to kind of think
about what that means. But I mean I feel like,
hold the majority.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Hold. That's very profound because as I was asking you
the question, I was thinking about the question and I thought, wow,
I don't have an I don't have an answer for
this either. So here I am on this show, and
there I am in therapy sessions, and there I am
in my musical, magical musical dance party that I do,
and I ask everybody, name a dream for your life.

(20:47):
Name a money dream. What's your money dream? What's the number?
Name a dream for your career. Name the dream. I
want to get married, I want to have a baby,
I want to build a house, I want to be
a star. Whatever, name a dream, We get the dream.
We clarify the dream, and then we put the songs
to it, We create the chemistry, and then we manifest
the dream and the neuroscience and the woo woo and
all the things. And that's my beat. And yet here
we are. We've been married, for twelve years. I fucking

(21:09):
love you. I love you. I'm gonna stay married to you. Okay,
there's only one way out of this marriage.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
I murder you.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
No one's getting murdered. I'm like, cut that up. I
fucking love you. I want us to have the best life.
I had the best time of fred again with you.
I have no idea what my dream is for this marriage,
and it sounds like you don't either. And here I
am saying, why do we fucking fight so much? And
it sucks? And yet we have no vision for what
our best marriage would be. That is why we fight

(21:40):
so much.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
I don't know that I agree with that's why we
fight so much.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Okay, but we have no vision for what our best
marriage is. So why don't we create a dream for
our relationship on this show? Since that's what February is about.
It's about dating and meeting the person you want to date.
It's about being with the person and making that person
the one. It's about redefining your relationship. Like, what is
your dream for our marriage? What would it feel like
if it was the best fucking marriage ever?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
What would it mean? Uh? The closest thing I can
tell you to that is actually what inspired me to
get married. To begin with. We had great chemistry, great
sexual chemistry. We had you know, I wanted to be
around you all the time and hang out and like
it was like a combination of like, you know, be
what it means to be like best friends with people

(22:27):
with somebody, and then also the sexual component, which you
know is not exactly you know, I feel like the
idea to me, the question that I always have about
the idea of marriage is like, for some reason, as humans,
or I can say it's like a male human is
we have this tendency and I want to like hold

(22:47):
on to things. And I think that, like, you know,
in a way, it's kind of like that impulse to
want to hold onto something is what, in essence almost
strangles it. And I say that kind of like across
the board, because there's like nothing in life that you
can ever hold on to. You really you can like

(23:08):
and its best, you can admire it, and you know
kind of like like appreciate it, but the idea of
like wanting to hold on to it is nonsense, you know.
And it's like I see that with like our cat.
We recently got a cat, and I totally love the cat,
but it's like every time I bring her close to me,
she just wants to scratch my eyes out and leave.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
How do you mean that about this marriage? Because I
think I know what you mean. We were Is this
what you mean? We were sitting at the hot tub
at the Post ranchion in twenty eleven and now remember
you were like you, I'm going to marry you. I'm
going to marry you whatever, and I was like, I
had married someone for a year and I was divorced.
I was like going to move to La be a songwriter, remember,
And I was like that's not me. I'm not going

(23:49):
to get married and like have kids with you and
like if I can move to Long Island, okay, So
direct quote, I was like, I'm not going to do that.
That's not what I'm doing. And you were like that's
not what I want. And I was like, you can't
like clip my wings and put me in a you know,
I was single and like probably half drunk, and I
was like speaking like a poet, right, and I said,
you can't clip my wings and put me in a cage.

(24:09):
You want to like put me in a cage and
make me yours And then like I won't be me anymore,
but you were like you're mine. Yeah, I'm gonna do that.
I'm gonna fucking do that. And what you're talking about
about like holding something and making it like it's not
gonna be the thing if you hold it anymore, I Kim,
I'm like crying, but like that's how I feel, and

(24:29):
I feel like you like captured me. And then it's
like I wasn't me anymore. And now we have a
kid and we live on Long Island, and that's like
the whole reason that you loved me in the first
place was because I wanted to go like make an
art project with you in Central Park, and like we
don't do that anymore. That's what we're doing here on
the show. It's like I wanted to bring you into

(24:51):
this space because I just want to make like our
projects with you all the time. And I think my vision,
my dream for this relationship is like I felt like
that at the show this weekend. I was like, this
is who we really are, on the other side of
maybe having a little kid, on the other side of
an epilepsy diagnosis which is now going away, right, Can
this be who we are as like just having fun again.

(25:13):
Where did I lose you?

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Well, I mean I'm not sure is that a question?
Can that be who we are?

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Like? What do you think of what I'm saying? Where
did I lose you? I just lost you? No?

Speaker 2 (25:21):
No, no, I mean I think what you're saying has validity.
But it's like, you know, it's like, isn't just there's
an element of that's kind of the way that things happen,
you know what I'm saying. And I mean, like quitting
to you, why is that? It doesn't have to happen.
It's just like it's the impulse. It's a that's what

(25:43):
I was saying before. I don't know where that is from.
It's a biological impulse to want to pair off and
propagate the species. I mean, like this's just the science
behind that must be somewhere deep in there. It's part
of our training. Oh sorry, our wiring wiry. Yeah, And
you know, it's like the intent was never to want

(26:06):
to hold on to it and extinguish that. And I
don't think we have. I think we just moved into
a different place in our lives, you know. And I
think interestingly enough, because we have one child and now
she's turning eleven and she's becoming an adult on her own.
We're kind of like moving into a new place. I mean,
I feel like me even personally. Yeah, I put a
lot of my creative development on hold to be at home,

(26:28):
of course, to be there with her, to be there
with you, to like raise this child who was totally
taking our attention. Like, my creative focus on making all
these things went to my creative focus on our interaction,
me and you and our relationship. And then my creative
focus turned into paying attention to this little you know,
this little tiny human who captured us both, yes, our

(26:49):
love and attention absolutely, and now I feel excited about
the idea of that on the other side being like okay, cool,
you know. And I actually said to Zoe the other day,
I was like, look, I'm still gonna be your dad
and I'm still here for you, but just to let
you know, like I'm now like going off to make movies,
and she said, you know, are you going to be around?
And I'm like, I'm going to be around. Of course,
I'm going to be around. I'm like, you know, but

(27:10):
I have to for me as a person, because you
want me soh you want me whether you know it
or not, to be me. And that's as a creative
person who's going to like be making things and moving
on and progressing. And you trust me, you want that,
you know, and I would say to you the same thing.
Trust me, you want that whether I'm going to be
away for a month straight because I'm making a movie

(27:30):
or not, you want that regardless, because you don't want
me to be the depressed as I do want that
who's crushed and is not.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Making fair No, I know, I know that. I know that.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yes, so you know, I guess the long, long story short,
I think I don't think the impulse to pair off,
have offspring and do that kind of like move to
Long Island thing, which we never plan on anyway, that
was a weird divergence. We always city people and we
plan on being city people once again. That was just
like there was a.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Pandemic a year and a half.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
It was a pandemic. It's a weird thing. I think
the idea is like you can't necessarily really go against
biology copy and that programming. And I don't think we
did wrong. And by the way, we got a child
out of it, and she's amazing and she adds to
our lives in profound ways, which on our deathbeds will
not be like, Oh, I wish we would have spent

(28:20):
more time making music, you know, music, videos and movies
during that time, because there's plenty of time to do
that shit. And we're not the kind of people who
are going to lose our way. Right We're sitting here
in iHeart Studios recording a podcast. This is you doing
your thing, and here we are planning very actively to
kind of like move back into that. And I think
the better question, Sorry, I don't even remember the question,

(28:41):
but I think a better question is how do we
maintain truth to ourselves and to each other as a
paradoff relationship with the concept of saying, hey, we're gonna
stay together and make this thing work. And I think
to me, and thankfully you know I'm here and answering

(29:02):
this question. I have not spent this much time thinking
about it, which is kind of ridiculous. In general, is
to do our best to respect ourselves as creative humans
or any humans for those of you out there that
are not creative and don't have that. But what do
I need in order to make myself happy as an individual? Also,
what do I have to do in order to be

(29:23):
the best partner I can be in terms of the
responsibilities that you signed up for. Whether you regret that
or not, you are in those responsibilities. So either duck
out of them and endure the fallout from that, or
stay in them and figure out how to grow as
a human who has made those decisions and is showing
up for their responsibility. I think that you know, to me,

(29:45):
that means continuing to show up with presence for you
to hear the things you need me to hear, for
us to have fun together doing the different things that
we like doing together, and also to be respectful of
myself when it comes to the ambitions that I have
and the things that I want to build.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
I think that for a long time I was like
chasing you around, like emotionally or whatever, when we were
really in like the kids stuff, you know. I think
I was even though I was working and traveling and
all this, I was chasing you around because I wanted
you to give me back the feeling from like the
post Ranchin. We have that picture album we have like
a photo album of our first year together, right and

(30:24):
we like fell in love. We traveled all of the
world was amazing, and I wanted you to like make
me feel that magic again. And I think part of
that is because when you started shooting the EDM shows.
I remember, well, I played Bonnaroo and you came in
twenty eleven when I opened for Q Tip and I
got that picture in the Times and we went right
to Vegas from Bonnaroo, and that was when like the

(30:45):
bottle service thing was happening, and I remember driving in
Vegas and seeing like a Vichy on the poster and
like get a and Aoki or whatever. And Dave Gottlieb,
who was my manager at the time, was like, you
could do this. You could be like a girl in
this mix. And we had many talks about it, and
we decided we were going to like have a life
and maybe have a kid, and I was gonna get married.
And that wasn't a you decision, that was a NUS decision.
I think I wanted an off ramp. But when you

(31:08):
started shooting all these DM shows a few years ago,
I saw these guys who were younger than me, who
spent all that time selling tickets, and I was on
stage with them, and I was like, motherfucker, like I
should have fucking done that. I should have fucking I
should have fucking done that, and I still like can
feel that pain of that, and I'm grateful I'm doing
all of this now. I think this is more meaningful

(31:28):
for me, and this is probably better suited to my talents.
But I think we had a really bad couple of
years because I can take responsibility on my side. I
think that I was looking for you to prove to
me that, like I still was this magical, incredible person
even though I didn't do that, And I wanted you
to make me feel the way that I felt at
the postrenchin and I was really resentful that I felt

(31:49):
that you like pulled me out of that life. Okay,
I'm being super relevatory here now. I don't think that
that's true. I think I had to make peace with
that on my own. But what I hear you saying
now is you're basically like, I need space to be
myself as an artist, and this is the time when
I'm gonna take it. And I am very much always

(32:11):
have been since you put the photo thing in our
vows and that our vows, Randy said, like she'll never
stop me from move ducking out of whatever we're doing
to go take photos. I'm basically like, go take your space.
I got this. I understand. I understand more than anyone
you would ever be married to, the need for you
to go be the artist that you are. I completely
believe in you. I totally back your play and I'll

(32:31):
do whatever it takes to make that happen in the
logistics side, and I hope you believe me.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
I do.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
And I think that, like what I my dream is
for this marriage is that like you can go do
the things that make you that, and I can go
do the things that make me that, which I'm doing
now in a different way, and we can like meet
and be happy and excited about each other. And the
drudgery of like the day to day is almost like

(32:57):
we don't even see it, like we don't even show
it to each doesn't even have to do with you.
It's like not in the movie of me being in
love with you.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
What doesn't also have to be that much of a
chaf Can I say two things? You know, I think
that it's a very interesting idea to look at the
at your relationship with somebody in the beginning and to
say I want to stay there because it's like nobody
ever stays anywhere. Everybody's always moving. So the idea of

(33:24):
wanting to recapture the kind of like the magic of
what it was like when you first met somebody and
what you're first, you know, exploring them their mind and
sexually and all that.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
And I feel that when we are like together, we
still have that is.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
I don't think a reality. I think it's the question
that I think the task at hand is really more
like how do we grow together and continually keep it interesting?
You know? And I think that you can see that
because we both know people that are, you know, forever
single and they're always meeting new people, and it's like
there's a chaf in that too, and it's it's it's
a different type of chaf that seems maybe exciting to

(33:59):
those of us that have been in you know, long
term relationships. You're like, oh, the idea of like going
out there and dating and like finding new partners and
shit like that is seems exciting.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
But that seem exciting to you.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Let's do that in another podcast, right. And then the
second thing I have to say is that I think
that you know, to me, I never understood the idea
of you know, we're two halves that come together and
create one like wu tang right or voltron or whatever.

(34:31):
But I don't I don't believe that. I think that
the idea is like, you know, to me, that feels
like weird, kind of like codependence, you know, I think that.
To me, the idea is like I'm a whole human
and you're a whole human and together we come and
ideally we come and there's like a synergy enough where
one plus one equals three and in our case we

(34:53):
have Zoe and it's like, so we are one on.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
One place, and I want you to want to be
with me, and I want you to say, like, oh,
I want to do these great things and come back
and tell her that's like my other half or.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Whatever, right, But I don't believe in the other half.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
You're just not that kind of guy.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
I'm just not that kind of guy. I feel like
I'm me and you're you, and we come together and
ideally we are a great mix and we elevate each
other in a way that's really exciting and really fun.
And that's what we really had in the beginning, and
we've had many times since then. You know, in a

(35:25):
very dynamic way. And I feel like the idea of
like coming together and just being one to me does
not feel like it does a relationship justice.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Okay, when we were first together, did you feel like that, yeah,
like we were coming together as one? Or you've still
felt like this?

Speaker 2 (35:36):
No, no, no, I never felt like we were coming together
as one. I was like, we're together, and this is awesome,
and we're two people that are coming together.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
That's like when we were that did diahuasca that time?
And I turned to and I said, we are living
parallel lives together. Remember that you love that living parallel
okay together? Do you need me? Do you need me?
And I don't mean to fucking do the dishes? Do
you need me? Do you need me to fulfill your
greatest artistic dreams and to inspire you?

Speaker 2 (35:58):
That's such a that's a very loaded question, I know,
and that's why the questions loaded. And I don't think
that that's fair. I will sit here right here and
think about it as long as it takes in order
to answer that question do I need you that? I
don't think the question is like, Man, there's a band
called Death Room Above nineteen seventy nine, and like one

(36:19):
of the songs called Romantic Rights, the chorus is or
is the chorus of verse she says, I don't need you,
I want you. And I think that there's a very
big difference between needing you, because that to me is like, oh,
there's some bullshit that I need to like heave on you,
some hole that I need you to fill. And I
don't feel that way. Okay. If I had never met you,

(36:42):
I would still be alive and I would still be
doing something on this planet. Okay. And if you died,
I hope you don't, but you will. And that's a
scary thought that I will have to deal with at
some point or not if I diverse, which statistically I will,
so if you died, I will be able to live

(37:03):
without you. Okay. The real mark I think of a
real like not you know, flawed relationship is not whether
I need you to live. It's it's whether I want
to live with you or not. That's really important. And I,
you know, it's like that's I feel like that's that's

(37:25):
the most important. I agree, And the answer to that
is yes, I do, Yes, I do.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Is there a butt coming, Well.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
There's a butt. It's not the butt is it depends
on the nature of our relationship. If you want me
to be truthful. It's like, there have been many moments
where we've been fighting where I'm like, fuck this bullshit
because it makes things not fun and knock wood while
we're While I'm here spending time on this planet, I
want to have as much fun as I can. I

(37:55):
want to be as president as I can. I want
to create as many awesome things as I possibly can.
I want to have a positive impact on those around
me as much as I possibly can. And when we're fighting,
when we're not in a good place, that shit sucks.
I want to run. Okay, So the long and short
of it is that you know, I want to be
with you. I feel like when we're at our best,

(38:17):
we bring great things out of each other. We can
really support each other in a beautiful way, and that's
what I want for us.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
You know, You're not You're you know. It's funny because
like I'm super relevatory, which was I think how you
say that we're like revealing on this show, and I
talked about money filling up the whole and if ever
I were talking about relationships as you're saying all this,
all I can hear is like, does it sound like
he's breaking up with me? Do people hear this and
think this man doesn't love me?

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Like?

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Why does it feel so empty to hear you say that?

Speaker 2 (38:45):
I would like to say, I don't give a shit
how it sounds to other people. Okay, Okay, let me
finish what I'm saying. Okay, but like some of my people,
doesn't matter if they are judging you based on that.
Everybody out there is listening with their own giant bag
of bullshit. Right You're listening to what I'm saying with
your bullshit, He's listening to his bullshit. Everybody is listening
with their own bullshit. And what I have to say

(39:07):
is that all of your bullshit everybody out there that's
listening to this, has no impact whatsoever on me and
my I'm trying to be as truthful as I possibly
can about that. I love that, and I would hope
that everybody is kind of bringing that same energy I bring.
I'm trying to bring the most truth that I possibly
can with the idea purely in a creative spirit, and
just how I am of trying to bring some light

(39:29):
to anybody else that is having this. It's like, if
they're judging me over this, sorry, that's you, that's not me.
I'm a different person. I shouldn't. I don't have the
same life as you. If my life is all about
what I was saying before, about like having fun and
that I took things lightly and all that kind of stuff,
and you're like, well, wow, you have the luxury of
doing that, then you know what, You're right. I did
have the luxury of doing that, and I'm appreciative of that.

(39:52):
And if you are coming at this and you have
a really hard life, I am sorry. I hope that
what I'm saying, I hope that every everybody can have
it easier and enjoys life as much as possible. I
really do. My intention is not that at all, So
I would say to you, try to you in your
best self, at least understand where you're coming from with

(40:14):
that and push that bullshit aside.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
You're right, it's my lower self who has a big, empty,
painful space and said that I had before I met you.
And when I met you and you seduced me, I
was like, Oh, he's going to fill this up so
much so that I'm going to not become the female
John Summit. But the truth is, if I really wanted
to become the female John Summon and that was my destiny,
I would have done that anyway. And I was looking
for the off ramp because I was fucking tired of

(40:38):
being on the road and I wanted something real. I
wanted to try something else, and it led me here.
And that's really great.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
By the way. When we first got together whatever, you know,
they always say, I can't remember who it is. They
always talk about it, how like the representative shows up. Yes,
you know, it's like I am not a stranger to
that no matter how you know, kind of like I
can play, you know, somebody that's as honest as possible,
you know what I'm saying, Like I do. We'll see
myself sometimes dealing with people and I'm like, Wow, who
the fuck are you showing up like that? That's not

(41:05):
really you. We both did that.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
I didn't do that. It was a hot mess.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
No, you were not a hot ass mat No, you
were not. Because I am not somebody that goes in
and is like, hey, I want to try to fix
this crazy chick. You showed up as a confident artist
who showed up to make this music video with me today.
You were there the whole time, and there was not like,
hey I'm Julie. I'm like I have this big gaping
hole about XYZ, like you can are dirty laundry on

(41:31):
your own. But it's like you didn't show up to
me and start crying to me about like whatever bullshit.
In the past. You showed up as a confident creative
artist who and by the way, you did that on
stage a ton you do that all the time. So
it's like, you know, there's a point where, by the way,
the representative kind of like fades away and all of
a sudden you're stuck with the person and all of
a sudden they show you who they really are, so

(41:54):
you know that is what it is. And then you're
like in this situation where you're like, okay, now I'm
in this and what let's.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
Let's let's bring to a positive note.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
I don't see you there's negative.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
No, It's fine. I'm just in like I'm in a
full sweat. I feel like this has got veryed. This gout,
I my all my own negative voices like came to light.
And when that happens, like I no longer like get
angry because I gotta walk the walk. I have to
like get and get. I have to go with it
and be like what are who? Where are you? So
where I am right now? Like where I went to
while you were saying all of this, like literally five

(42:24):
seconds ago, I was crying and being like, I love you,
Let's go tour with Fred again. And then the next
minute I'm like, oh my god, I reject this man.
I'm gonna leave him, like because I felt like you
were telling me that, like you didn't love me as
much as I loved you. That's not what you said.
That's me. That's my baby Julie story from like, you know, feeling,
you know, like my dad didn't love me enough, like

(42:44):
all that stuff that I'm sure I will reveal over
the course of this year. Here's the Here's the beginning.
Here's the beginning of it. Okay, I'm gonna ask you
some two sweet questions.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Wait can I answer it? Can I answer that? For
one second? I honestly think it's more beautiful to say
I don't need you, I want you.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Right, but that's you because everybody loves.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
You when you are come from everybody loves me.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Brandy, We can talk about this till the end of time.
You think that's more beautiful because that is it depends
how you were raised, It depends how you it depends
how you feel on the inside.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Right. But it's it's a choice. Then, It's not just
because I'm I need help. It's like, you know, it's
like it's like when people love their therapist, It's like
it's that's it's not because they love the therapist as
a person. It's because they're projecting on them. You know that.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
It's like it's better to not have a hole and
choose to love than it is to have a hole
and be like somebody fixed me.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Exactly, got it? Okay, I'm not coming to you from
from a place of being broken and oh my god,
I need you. I got it to put my arm
around you because I'm missing a leg and I need
you to help me walk. And it's like I'm saying, hey,
I want to walk alongside you, and that's a beautiful thing.
I think.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Do you want to walk alongside me? Yes or no?

Speaker 2 (43:52):
She says with the same yes or no.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
I just want to know I said yes, sir. Right, Okay, fine,
I'm going to ask you another question. And we're gonna
wrap this up. Okay, what do you see in me
that I don't don't see in myself?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
I am not going to answer that question. I feel
like that's a setup and I am not with setups. Okay,
So can you take a picture of you first? Because
I think you look beautiful? Right now?

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Sure? Are we going to link that to the show notes?
So you're shooting film? Yeah, that's cute. Okay, listen to me.
We identified a bit of a vision for our marriage.
I think we could do a better job. I think
we could do a better job. I don't want to
do that either. I don't feel like it either. But
if you want to know why we fight, it is

(44:33):
my clinical opinion. Because only one of us here is
licensed by the State of New York. Well, actually, you
are licensed to be a like a pilot, right, aren't
you like a licensed to I'm Aronia, have a license
from the FAI or something.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
I'm a licensed drongil.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
You're a licens drum pilot.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Where you going with this?

Speaker 1 (44:49):
I'm a licensed clinician and I'm telling you with certain things.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Oh so you're right, Yes, that's what you're talking Listen.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
That the reason we fight so much is because we
do not have a shared vision of what we are building.
We have a shared we have. You have a vision
for your career. I have a vision for my career.
I think we have a vision for our family and
our kid. I think we know we're done with the
burbs and we're coming back all those things. We need
a shared vision for our dream of how we feel together.
And I think we do that during, like you know,
intimate moments, but I think we need to do that

(45:15):
during non intimate moments, and so I think that that's
something we should spend some time doing that. I also
don't feel like doing, which is lazy. So if I
want to know why we fight, it's because I'm lazy.
I'm going to ask us each is the wrap up?
If we imagine ourselves at our best right?

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Better not be setting me up for some kind of question, behater.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
If we if you could change one thing about yourself
to get us closer to that dream, what would it be?
And what's one thing I could change? Okay, but I
don't know what the vision is yet.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
What's the question? Again?

Speaker 1 (45:42):
To get us closer to the vision of our best marriage?
Is something we could actually change? Together, Like I asked
people to make a promise, you know, I say, you
want to be a you know, you want to make
this money, or you want to get this job, or
you want to find your man. Like We're going to
talk next week to a dating expert, a big dating expert,
and I'm going to say, how do we get, you know,
from texting to going on a date. And she's going
to say, here's how you do it. Step one, step two,

(46:04):
step three. So I'm saying, how can we we want
this to be nice and tight and wrapped up. What's
one thing, like a baby step that we could do?
We don't need help having like date nights and sexy time.
I don't think we need help like going out and partying.
I think we need help in our house. Like one
thing we could do, let's just like dream as big

(46:26):
as we fucking can, like as as separate from ourselves
and our stupid stories of bullshit as we can, like
look at me with like the post wrench and hatabys.
What's like one thing we could do to get back
to get closer to our dream?

Speaker 2 (46:41):
I think we were doing well. I think the hard
part of our relationships is that it's hard.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
To have.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
A real understanding of kind of like what everybody else
is going through and what the what it's supposed to be.
Like we talk about this all the time when it
comes to our daughter. It's like we haven't parented any
other kids, nor do we have a second so it's
difficult for us to really understand and kind of like
what the barometer is in terms of like where she
is on all these different fronts. And I think it's
that same way with the relationship. I think for me
personally at this point in my life, what would put

(47:11):
me in a better mood more often all the time
is more actualization on the things that I have put
on the back burner. That just makes me a happier
person across the board when it comes to like my career.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Okay, so what you're asking for, which is something that
I do that I will double down on giving is
space to be an artist.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
And you're good at that by the way. You're you know,
it's like when I was writing my script last year,
like you were really good about taking giving me a
time to sit down and really kind of be in
that place.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Okay, you see how good this listening is. So now,
what are you going to give me. What do you
think knowing me and not being silly and knowing really
about all my fucking bullshit and all of my many
needs for like attention and impact, and you know, I
really need to make a big legacy on the world
and help a lot of people. That's the truth. And
I love hip hop, so it's like that's me. I

(48:03):
love records. I want to help people. The end music
is therapy. You know me better than anyone. We've been
together for sixteen years, we've been married for twelve. I
bared my soul. I'm doing my best all the time.
But really, now to respect who you are. You're not exact.
I wish you were mushier and warmer and would go
there with me and cry like I wish all this,
but like I love you. What can you give to

(48:25):
me in the most generous moment, because we're wrapping up
this episode of my show.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
I think what you need for me most is I
think presence, especially when you are out of sorts. You know,
when you're not together, you need me to be there too,

(48:50):
you know, just hold the space for you and bring
you back when you're spiraling out about you know, whatever
it is at the moment, and I think after years
of having to do that, because that's not really my
best skill is doing that. I mean, in some ways
it is for for for people that I'm not so

(49:12):
close with. For people that I'm very close with, like you,
it's hard to be like, oh man, I have to
deal with this now, like I need to do something else.
But I think, you know, I've I've kind of realized that,
you know, that's that's what I could bring to you
into our relationship to kind of like make things the
most stable and steady as they can be and something

(49:34):
that you need and frankly something that I can't actually
do quite well and easier for you. And that's what
I try to do.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Well, you do that more and I'll give you more space.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Yeah, absolutely, I love you.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Happy Valentine's Day, America. Just kidding. So that was my husband.
If you listen to that and thought, holy shit, they
sound like me and my partner, you have two options.
Option number one send this episod to them, or option
number two, absolutely do not send this episode to them,
But only you know which one is the right move.
Although if you have a friend who's fighting with their

(50:09):
partner and they have no idea why. Maybe you want
to send it to them or the same rules apply.
I don't know real talk though. If this episode hit
for you, I'd really love to hear about it. Send
me a DM on Instagram at hester Prin Music you
can send me an email. Music is Therapy pod at
gmail dot com. We read them all, or yes, you
know what, leave a review that really matters to me.

(50:30):
We got so many great reviews of the show in
January and it was so meaningful And if you want
to try my magic man strategy yourself, the February playlist
is linked in the show notes. Every song this month
is there for a reason. It's to help you shift
your state wherever you are in love. Next week, I
am joined by dating expert Demona Hoffman, who is a

(50:51):
specialist from The Drew Barrymore Show, and we're going to
talk about dating, how to know what you actually want,
why your dates are probably too long, and how to
stop and text conversations that go nowhere. If you're single,
swiping or wondering why you keep attracting the same person
in a different body, that episode is for you. I
am DJ hester Prinn. This is Music is Therapy. I'll

(51:13):
see you next week. Dj hester Print's music is Therapy
is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm Your Host dj
hester print. Our executive producers are Marissa Bramwell and Jonathan Strickland.
Our associate producer is Jonathan Klopp. Our marketing lead is
Alison Canter Gradler. That's it.

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