From Philly to Platinum with Shawn Stockman

Sometimes people see something in you before you see it yourself. This week, the guys sit down with Shawn Stockman of Boyz II Men - Philly kid, choir boy, one of the greatest voices of a generation - to talk about the moments life pulls you toward the thing you were actually put here to do.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, how you doing.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
This is Freddie Rodriguez.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
And I'm wilmer about the rama. Welcome to those amigos.
Today is gonna be.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
I want to say something about the stirred amigo before
we introduce him. He came today with the Beach Street
Pumas on man, take Lama man.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
If you know, you know, you know, you know.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
You know you're watching his video. He's got the Beat
Street Pumas. Who do we have here today with?

Speaker 4 (00:37):
I mean orange orange soda, you know, crazy girl than
the Block. Sorry, oh that's the different, that's Bronx, Right,
it's Jennifer Lopez.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
If you know, you know, that's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
You know you know.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Sean talk man man.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
First of all, let me just start by saying I
had the privilege of being on his podcast podcast that's
a beautiful love letter to you know, to friendship, to artistry,
to the beginnings and uh and tou theological theorelic, you know,
philosophical conversations about you know, where life is, what it
takes you, what do we have from the past we're

(01:17):
going to It's like I had such a beautiful conversation with.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
You and I was like, bro, can we.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Do that now on my show absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
Over here and he has a beautiful segment where you know,
he you know, he bustsu his guitar and he brings
the song from your past. You say, you know, well,
there was an episode of that seventies show that we're
doing musical.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
And I don't wanna.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
I don't want to spoil it because it should. You know,
you guys gotta go and watch the show. You got
to check out that video. It's really but let me
just say that we did a little homage to to
Fast on that seventy show show, and so it was
it was really really fun. But but Sean, I'm gonna
I'm gonna just read a sentence because that's what we're
gonna start.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yes, you got, I'm Sean Patrick Stackaman.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
Yes, was born September twenty sixth of nineteen seventy two.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
That's in Philadelphia, Pencil. Really, what was it like to
grow up in Philly?

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Like?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
What was why was that? What was that? What did
that feel like to you?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Philly's one of the greatest cities to grow up in?
Was that? Because it's a blend? If I had to
compare it just for conversations, purpose of people get it
kind of a visual It's like a tiny New York,
meaning there's all types of people there. There's black, white, Hispanic,

(02:45):
so you have this blend of cultures. And not to
mention it is the oldest city in the country, so
it has the history behind it. You can go downtown
and see all those historical monuments, the Liberty Bell and
Miss Jefferson's house and where Betty Ross made the flag
and all the other So it has that. But it

(03:06):
has a deep musical culture. It's the home of the
sound of Philadelphia. Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff who was
responsible for the o Jays, and Patty LaBelle and and
and Phillis Hymen and Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes
and you know all this other stuff. It's the home

(03:26):
of Jazzy jeff and Fresh Prince. Yes, it's like it's
the roots and and so. Uh. Growing up back then
was was beautiful. I grew up in the hood. My
family was poor, but it didn't matter because I I

(03:47):
felt like I grew up in in a enriched environment.
I had my friends, I had my brothers and my
sister a drama. I had my culture. Uh, being able
to go out and play and ride bikes and skateboards
and play tops on on the on the street and

(04:07):
middle of the street, and play basketball with the milk crate.
And I experienced all of that and and it was
a great place to to to grow up.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
How are the arts, because I'm reading here that you
started singing at eight years old, Like, how was the
arts integrated within your community at that time?

Speaker 2 (04:27):
It was life. Arts was life like down the street
or around the corner where I grew up in Myers,
they would have block parties and break dancers and what
we would call back in the day steppers, where they
would have like these guys and normally these wing tip shoes,

(04:48):
and they'd dress really nice and they would do these
little fancy little steps and all that, like like it
was you had rappers like Chicago. No, it was, yeah, yeah,
it was a little different where it was like it
would be like a group of guys and they would
just have these pops like they were like, do these

(05:10):
like really slick type of like steps and everything. And
I would be sitting at home, yes, yes, yes, And
and they would do it to music, but just rhythmically
they were doing their own percussive type of thing and
it was always so slick and cool, so like I
had all of that, like just the music and the

(05:32):
and the sounds and the dancing, and it was just
growing up in the hood. A lot of people tend
to talk about all the bad stuff and the negative
things that go on in the ghetto, and yeah, that
happens too, But for the most part, from what I've

(05:53):
seen in my childhood growing up, you saw a little
bit of that, but I saw more or just togetherness.
I saw a family, I saw friends, I saw like
like it was. It was a beautiful place, like I
loved where I grew up and around other people that
didn't have much, but it didn't matter. How were the

(06:15):
arts in your public school system. Well, when there was
actually an arts program in schools, it was rich. Like
we had that too, Like I was always in the
choirs and they had little any productions with little since
you were eight, since I was eight.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, So I have a question is that when you realized,
oh wow, I can hit a note, Like when when
was that moment you were like I can sing.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
I'm like I can. You know, I've always loved singing,
and as far as you remember, as far as I
can remember, I always enjoyed it and I loved it.
I remember my mother, God rest his soul, used to
gave me as a gift as a kid. Gave me
the Fisher Price microphone and tape recorder. Do you remember those?

(07:04):
I don't know it, but and the mic actually worked,
and I had like a cassette and I would like
film myself singing commercials and play it back. I'm like, oh,
that's cool.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Like the Jingles.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, I was singing the Giant it was. It was
for a toy called Giant lock Blocks. Like, that's one
thing I remember. And I remember playing it over and
over again, and my voice was and I would singing

(07:37):
just like the commercial. And but the moment where I
felt like, I guess this could be something was when
I was actually driving home from acting school because I
wanted to be an actor. It's this school called Weast
Barren that my mother put me in and I was

(07:59):
getting pretty good at it, just learning the virtues of
acting and all those things. And I was driving home
one day and well she was driving home one day
and I was in the pasture seat and the song
on the Wings of Love by Jeffrey Osbourne came on,
so I'm just singing it on the wings. I'm no,
I've been above the clowns. The only way to fly,

(08:21):
you know, just singing, and my mother slams on the brakes.
She looks at me and goes, how did you do that?
And I was like do what and she's like you're singing. Wow.
She's like you're singing.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Meaning you were stopping the acting and.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Then yeah, she said because she couldn't afford both. So
it was one of those things where she was like, no,
you're singing. So she took me out of We's barn,
which I was very sad about, but she put me
into the Philadelphia Boys Choir Wow, And at eight, I
sang for them till I was like eleven. And that

(09:06):
was like my first time experiencing being around like white
people and other people. And it was great because that
choir was run by doctor Hamilton. Took me overseas, like
we sang over in London. We flew over to London,

(09:28):
and I think about what my mother sacrificed, not just
financially but emotionally. But she saw something in me that
I didn't see in myself, Like she entrusted these people
to put her eight nine year old child onto a

(09:48):
plane to go to London and then we made our
way back on the Queen Elizabeth, like the luxury Like yeah,
so we were on that ship for a week. Like
as a parent, now, to think about what my mother
had to be going through in her head, like, oh

(10:10):
my god, did I make a mistake, Like it's not
like the phone, Yeah, there was no cell phones. There
was no there.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
You're not going to hear from her child for like a.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Four wee yeah, you know, and even then, like I was,
I was having the worst time because I missed my
mom and young I was like, oh my god, you know,
started crying and everything, like I was so far away
from home. So but to see my mother's or to
look back and to think about the sacrifice that my

(10:41):
mother made knowing something that I didn't know. She saw
it in me and she literally forced me to pursue it,
and I'm glad that she did.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
As you look back into that sacrifice, like now, as
you know someone who's lived life and created the dream
that she recognize that was in your heart, how does
that make you feel when you think about your mom
in those days, Like.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
It makes me realize how blessed that was to be
her son, like to be very honest, like again, and
I tried to implement that with my own children, just
put them in places because raising kids nowadays a little different.
We as parents have a different type of pressure for

(11:31):
our kids with social media and all this other stuff.
Did the kids have a little more a little more
to go through from a social standpoint, it's a little tough.
And when you have kids and teenagers and young men
as children, you know, you see it, You see them
go through it, and it's really hard. It's hard on them.

(11:52):
So we our approtests to be different. But I try
to implement, just to answer your question, the same philosophies
that my mother and my father you know, practiced on me,
which is to just put them in the environment. If
you see certain things in them, just place them there

(12:16):
and and don't coddle them too much, just kind of
let them kind of figure it out a struggle, right,
like all the anxiety, the anxiety that you deal with
because you see the the pangs of growing up for them,
and specifically my daughter, who goes through certain things. I
am not gonna say too much, Brooklyn, so I want

(12:37):
you to I want to embarrass her, but you know,
she goes through things and just seeing her do it, it
breaks my heart. But they gotta let them swim. And
and and we grew up in an era of like,
you know, your parents would leave you outside until like
the street lights came in.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
You know, there was a time to go home.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, there's a trust there. That's it.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
It doesn't exist anymore.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
I'm a gen xer. So we were we were latch
key kids basically, you know, we we were guys. We
were kids that'll come home, get into the the house,
do our own homework. In some cases, cook our own food,
make our own sandwiches and stuff because mom is at
work and we won't see mom until eight o'clock at
night or something like that. So you know, with that,

(13:22):
we had to take care of ourselves. And even when
our parents were there there, their philosophy was tough enough.
You have to you know, figure this out, yeah, figure
it out. So we had to learn how to do that.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
So you're in Europe, yeah, and you're like, okay, eight
years old. Now we're got to sing.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah yeah, yeah, And we sang at the church where
Princess Diana and Charles got married, like just like a
few places where that we went and a couple of
performances that we had. And yeah, again I look at
that and I go, wow, I traveled at eight. I

(14:04):
was in London at eight, So like, yeah, yeah, it's
a bug out. Like when I think about it, I
was like, I would never take my back, you know
what I'm saying. But but again, the world was a
little different too.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
And what was that you know you said something interesting earlier,
you said that when you first started singing, it was
the first time that you were around other cultures other
than your culture.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Right.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
I had a very similar experience that I started in
the arts really early on, and same for me. I
got into the arts and it was the first time
I was around other cultures.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Right.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
So not only did that happen to you at eight
when you started singing in this choir, but what was
that like then going to London and being in another
country because of singing. I mean that must have you
bugged out just being in the choir itself in Philly.
That must have been a real real bug out over
in London.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, but you know, I was such a kid. And
again this is a testament and pray for my mother
who allowed me to be a kid. So I looked
at everything like a child would look at it. I
didn't look at it with about race and colors and
cultures and stuff like that. Per se. It was just

(15:15):
more so wow cool. Yeah. So I took it. Yeah,
I took it all in that way, like I didn't
have the anxiety of having to deal with too much
racial issues and stuff like that. I mean, I knew
white people existed. I just never was around too many,

(15:38):
you know what I mean, unless they were my teacher to.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
Even understand, like the long standing history of the divide. Yeah,
I mean, it's it's also really worth noting that in
our generation there was this like this suspended space where
you're like, oh, it looked like it got fixed, but
then there'd be things in history that told you that
we were going back on that first promise, you know.

(16:04):
And I think the idea that kind of our generation
was able to to inspire our children, especially our kids
of color, to say, you know, oh you you got
a better situation. And then let's say our grandparents did, yes, right,
because now we got a better situation than Look, we
decided we want to you want to be a singer?

(16:26):
An actor and you we were both like, oh what
about acting? And somehow we thought that was possible for
it for in their generation, our grandparents generation, that is
not possible. You might sing in church, you might perform
in the local theater, you know, but you're not like
that's not for you, right, So it's like, what do
we hand over our children? I was like, you know,

(16:47):
what environment are we giving them? That is going to
be you know, more possible. But it's an interesting thing
that that is the one This was the one generation
where it was allowed to dream in a way. You know,
you talk about you know, late seventies or early eighties and
you think about how colorful music was, Like we got
handed over like an image to mainstream that most people

(17:10):
start typically didn't grow up with, you know. So it
was a very magical place where things could be possible.
And then you went on to be you know, not
just you know, an extraordinary artist, but an icon that's
going to live and music is going to be played,
I mean far long.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Then when we're gone.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
You know, that's that's like the most beautiful thing to say,
how much your artists is mortalized. Did you start out
also as a were you like a solo artist at first?

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Is that kind of how I was?

Speaker 2 (17:39):
I mean, I guess yeah, technically, yeah, I mean just
singing in choirs and stuff like that. I've never done
any solo performances as a kid. It was always with
a group of people because I also used to poplock
so you know a little breakdance crew and yeah, we kind.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Of you know the way Freddy Freddie had with the
cardboard box.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, yeah, we had to.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
We would still get it get we would steal the
tile from like local like stores.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
We would steal like a piece of it and bring
it back and we would do our you know, break
dance and all that stuff. So yeah, I mean yeah,
I started off, I guess you could say, and until
uh high school where I met my guys. Uh did
you go to an arts Yeah? I went to a
Creative and Performing Arts South Philadelphia course major. Yes, I

(18:32):
was a vocal major and drama major and a course minor. Okay,
there you go. Yeah, so yeah, we I was. I
was there and that's where I met the rest of
my group, and that's how we got together because they
were from different parts of Philadelphia.

Speaker 4 (18:47):
What was that moment like when you're like you're hanging
with the crew, you're in school, you're sharpening your tools,
and you're like h boys to.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Men about the name. But like the moment where you
all decided, I think we were really strung together.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, more like a synergy. Well that's that's kind of
a that's part of the story. But when I was
went to the school, I was there for a whole
year before any of the rest of the guys even
noticed me, because I was a geek, I was a nerd,
I was an introvert, and I hung around the other
degenerates in school. You know, the fat kids, the homosexuals,

(19:26):
the geeks, the people, the outcasts, right, So because I
didn't care, like you know, they loved me and I
loved them back. So it was one of those things
where for a whole year I was in school in
the same classes, the same choir classes is as Nate
and Mike and Mark, because we were at five at
one point and didn't even notice me until my sophomore year.

(19:54):
My music teacher at the time, mister Donald Dumpson, gave
me a so to sing after like in between classes.
So for some reason, again the theme Ladies and Gentlemen
of my story is people see things in me that
I don't see in myself. So he picked me out

(20:16):
of the bunch of the kids and say, hey, I
want you to sing this solo. I said, okay, So
there was this bb and CC wining song.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
Love said not, so, how did you feel in that
moment because I take tingcause you've been singing with everyone together. Yeah,
and You're like, okay, here just drive yeah, everyone quiet.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of weird. So we would
practice it and everything, but I don't really think much
of it. He's like, okay, you gave me a solo.
Don't know why, but whatever. So we're all in the
choir in class and mister Dumpson says, Sean, go up.
I was like.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
On the spot.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
I was like, this, dude is not doing this to me.
He's not doing this to He's not doing this all right.
Like being in front of the class was beating out
of my chest. So I was like, okay, So I
go up on stage. I sing the solo. It's funny
reaction because when I'm done again, no one knew I
even existed in the choir. I finished, and the whole

(21:19):
choir was like this, I guess I sang it good.
I didn't think that I could sing. So they were
all sitting like, who the fuck is this kid? You
know what I'm saying, you know that type of thing.
So right after that, I leave the class and people
giving me, you know, pats on the back and the
whole thing. I was like, okay, all right. So I

(21:40):
walk out and Nate meets me at the bottom of
the steps. It's like, yo, dude. You know, Nate was
the thug of the group. So he's like, hell, dude,
you know I got a group. You won't be in
it no way. Yeah, man, you got recruited, rooted on
the spot.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
So so he's like, hey, we're gonna be in Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
So yeah, Nate recruited me and at the time it
was five of us, and we jelled pretty quickly, actually
not knowing each other collectively, and months after we uh,
we're a group. Nate and I were on the phone
just talking and I had the radio plan and the

(22:20):
new edition song called Boys to Men was playing. Grow
Man can Be pain, right, So it's on and I said, yo,
that should be our name. He's like, what I said,
boys to Men, It's like that just sounds like something
like it sounds like a concept. I don't know why,

(22:42):
but it just, you know, it had just dawned on
me that should be our name. And Nate didn't like
it at first. Of course, Nate doesn't like anything, so.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
I didn't he like, what was his thing about it?

Speaker 2 (22:52):
He just he just didn't get it at first. I
think it was what was the name before.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Undeclared it was?

Speaker 2 (23:01):
It was we were called Unique Attraction. Oh you go,
you know what I'm saying. Huh yeah, you could see
the boat ties know a lot of sequence.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
The only issue with that name is this, like it's
too literal.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, yeah, doing the back in the day. Back in
the day, like those types of names were the thing,
you know, you had to have, like a you know, yeah,
you know that type of thing. So that was in
vogue at that time. So we kind of went with

(23:43):
that because there were other local groups that had similar monikers.
But yes, to put it plainly, it was bad. But
uh boys, the men came up and he's like, well
I would I said, I'll tell you what, Let's just
use the name and see if it sticks and if

(24:03):
we come up with something better or just change it.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
That's smart. That's smart.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
You give that a real shot and not laid on opinion.
It's actually based on you know, popular demands.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, it was like, it's a cool name, and I
thought and it worked out.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Did you see the difference immediately when you guys were performing.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
From the name itself. I don't know. I don't know
if the name had anything to do with it, but
I will I will tell you one particular story that
changed everything for me. It was February fourteenth. Me and
the guys call it the Magic Show because that's when
things changed completely. So we were doing a talent show

(24:51):
for our school, high school, and you know, we werehearsed
and you know, we got all our steps together and
we were about to see King standar rain By New
Edition or whatever. So we went to this store called
two first or you get two for one because we
were poor, so we had to get like these little
tuxedo jackets. And there's a picture out there with the

(25:12):
five of us, like out there, Yeah, yes, the five
of us, and we're in these actual suits and this
was before the actual performance, and with these black slacks
and these patent pleather shoes, and you know that hurt,
but whatever, it didn't matter. And we're behind the curtain.
And again I was a nobody, right, but a couple

(25:33):
of the guys in the group were pretty popular and
it was popular, you know whatever. And we're behind the
curtain and the curtain opens and we're in our little
poses and you would have thought the Jackson's were on
the stage.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
The girls were losing their minds, screaming like like we
were like already like recording artists. And I remember being
so nervous because we had like these this little routine
that when we do a step, we got these little
crystals in our hand and we would kind of do that,
and I remember distinctly I was freaked out so much

(26:12):
my hand got loose. I was like I was starting
to drop the crystal because I was like, what the fuck, Like,
so my hand I started.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
To get really oh wow, interesting.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, like my body started to give out. Yeah, yes,
it was like that. And I remember like my hand
doing this and some of the crystals. I had to
tighten it back up because I was like, what the
hell is going on? So much so where the vice
principal had to get on stage and say, calm down,
calm down, We're not going to do the show. It
was crazy. You would have really thought that we were

(26:41):
these this big act and it was weird. And again
let me let me say again, I was a nobody, right,
No one knew who I was. The next day after
that performance, I go to school, Hey Sean, Hey Sean,
Hey Sean, Hey Sean, what's up man? Sean, Sean, Hey
the girls, Hey Sean. You know I was like, yeah, yeah, bro,

(27:05):
what the hell just happened? I was the same dude.
I was a dude, the same guy that y'all seen
me around.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Ten minutes ago. I was that guy ten minutes after
I was something.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
I was something else. It was something else it was,
and it changed things in my head.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
It was like like, wow, why do you think that
specific performance changed things or people?

Speaker 1 (27:28):
It gave you the confidence to be like we ye
go all the way now.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah. Again, the theme of this conversation is people saw
things in me that I didn't see in myself, and
that's really what that was. Again, it was I think
he had.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
Something to do with the fact that when you were
on your flow and in in effortless and by the way,
like you know, at this point, you have no pressure
to become or be or do anything. You're flowing in
a way that's just like I'm doing what I can
do and what I love, and therefore you were free

(28:08):
for your artistry to take over in a way that
like if you had the pressures of being like, we're
doing this because we're gonna do this, and we're gonna
do that, and we do the aspirations of all those
things that you probably would have. I feel like maybe
that has something to do with white people noticed something
you wouldn't see in yourself in the sense that like,
sure you could have had that ambition to be a

(28:29):
real recording artist and all of that. But it feels
to me like when you're flowing in your art, you're
not thinking about anything for the exception of just telling
the story. I mean that's it feels to me like
knowing all of it, being a fanatic of yours and
and the group. I look at that as like there

(28:50):
is an effortless emotional thing that happens when you locked
in and you go, I'm now here to tell you
this story.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Now I'm gonna make you feel some things. I am
on it. That's right, right, So you're not performing the
brand you're.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
You're doing you and finding that sweet spot is so
beautiful because not only do you get the best from yourself,
the onlookers do too. They get the best version of
you and us. Being in the industry for so long,
we can somewhat get jaded by UH doing our job.

(29:31):
Sometimes it becomes it becomes what we do. And I've
for years going through those slumps. I always try to
reach back and remind myself why I do what I do, Like, yes,
it's become an occupation and it is a job component

(29:53):
to this. You know, I have to go out and
have to sing certain amount of minutes, and this is
that and the third and there are semantics mind it,
but ultimately I do this because I love it, and
we have to sometimes remind ourselves tap back in to
why we are who we are. Do you find that hard?

(30:18):
The more successful you got, it can be you.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Have the pressure to be like now it's an enterprise.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
It can be. It can be. But I think I
have the great advantage of being with a bunch of
guys opposed to say a solo artist, Like I feel
bad for soloists because a lot of times the people
around you aren't really on your level mentally on what
you have to, you know, go through to deal with that. Right,

(30:47):
they're just you're workers. And a lot of times and
a lot of cases, I'm sure you've seen, we've all
seen them. Those entourages can be a bunch of yes men, Oh,
you're fabulous, you're great, you're this, that and the third,
even when you may not feel that way. The advantage
I have with being in the group is, first I
tell you, motherfucker, you was flat. You know what I'm saying, Yo,

(31:12):
that was that was good idea? Yeah that's terrible. So
you realize how much how important that is to have
somebody check in. And now you're back into checking in
your own body and saying, yeah, I guess that was
kind of bad. So you the anxiety lessons when you

(31:34):
have an equal partner that's able to tell you, amen,
either that's a great idea, that's great, because that's it's
the opposite of that too. Sometimes you need to be told, yo,
that was a dope idea. You know what I'm saying,
Like all of those yeah becomes so I won't lie.

(31:54):
I have the advantage. I had the advantage for many
years of being around my group members because we were
the checks and balances, you.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Could protect each other. You can keep honest you.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Know, artists not so much because it's just them.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
Or you guys know each other so well, right, starting
so young together, like you just really can lean on
the fact, like you guys are beyond ego, right, Like,
there could be things that like you know, there'll be
friction over like a dressing room, or they could be
frictioning over like who got the suv?

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Who did it?

Speaker 4 (32:25):
And right like there's like really fundamental materialistic stuff like that.
But but if you're if ego doesn't exist, because the
familiarity of you guys as a family and as a
brotherhood's there.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
You know, all you guys are no longer friends, you're
a family.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
Right or even the complexities of fame, right yeah, right,
with fame comes a lot of complexities that that you
can't seek an average person and and and have a
conversation right about it.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
You know.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yeah, I think that's part of what makes our friendship
pretty good, you know, because I can I can text
you at two in the morning and go, man, I
finished the thing, man, and then we have.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
A conversation about.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Or when you call me.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
You know, I'm grateful for that because there's not a
lot of people that I can do that with or
will understand what I'm saying, or just like when you
share stuff with me, So I would imagine that that
that's probably what it must have been like for you
to be in a group.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Right, the simple things tend to be overlooked because those
are the first things to go and part of being
in the industry, the first thing you align with are
people that you can trust, that you think you can trust.
That's the most important element of being in the business

(33:49):
that we're in because again, the theme of the story
of this conversation is people see things that you don't
see in yourself that could be a negative too. There
are a lot of people that see certain things that
you don't see in yourself that they take advantage of. Yeah,
you understand so so, or things.

Speaker 4 (34:09):
That you could adjust in order to open up to
your full potential. Right, there's things that like you're holding
yourself back back this way, yeah, right, right, or like
you know, if you just lean more on that, like
you know, if you're open to that type of flow,
you know, there's a level of building that that can
really happen and piggybacking on the building side of things.

(34:32):
How many years have you all been a group?

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Thirty five?

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Thirty five years?

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yes? Right?

Speaker 4 (34:38):
And and and when you look at thirty five years
of poetry and you think about what life has meant
to you, every album, you're in a different place of adulthood.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yes, you know which album? Do you think it's the
one that's like, wow, this is me as an adult now?
Or you know? You know what I'm saying. The music
matures with you, right.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
I think hm hmm. Let me think about this for
a second. I would say the most profound moment of
me being confident and who I am and embracing me

(35:37):
being as an adult and being a successful adult and
having those those elements in my life coming from where
I came from. I would say the two album Boys
to Men Too, that was right after Coolie High Harmony

(35:59):
and which was our debut, and we just came off
of a very successful album run, a very successful tour,
and end of the road, Broke Records, and you know
all this other stuff. So now going back into the
studio with this record is when I really, I think,

(36:27):
came into my own. I wrote a lot of songs
on that record, more than the first one, because I
felt like, Okay, this is what I do.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
You were flying in your strength at that point.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yes, I found a level of confidence in myself that
I never had. So going into the studio it was
nothing to go in write a record, take control of
a studio session, and that type of thing. And we're
going to do the right to be the first guy

(37:05):
to put lyrics down for an idea of a song
and really just putting, you know, just being asserting myself
into the into the situation. I think that. And then
after that going on our most successful tour and all

(37:26):
of that stuff like it made us see things. Uh,
what made me see myself in a totally different way,
still being the shy introvert, but being confident in my introversion.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
You were leaning into what you who you were is
who I was. Yes, First of.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
All, you could tell them I appreciate and respect and
love this guy so much because I have like a
bazillion questions about what it feels like because I have
I've had experiences, Freddie, you know what I'm talking about.
In this part where you'll visit a country for the
first time, somebody on that ground has seen you before.

(38:12):
Somebody knows you there and you've never even been to
the country. Yeah, what did it feel like when you
were pouring and you go to the country, the country
you've never been to, and you enter a venue and.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
It's passed language you don't speak the.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
Language you don't speak, and you walk in You're like, what.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
What the hell is the internet?

Speaker 2 (38:33):
You know what I mean? Right?

Speaker 4 (38:34):
Like, it's like what that that feels to be? Like
that is a moment for an artist that is beyond magic.
It's beyond when you know that, like art has no passports, no,
it does, has no boundaries, has no no no uh
you know, no borders to cross. There's no one at
the gate not letting you in. Like art can go

(38:55):
beyond any jurisdiction, any administration, you know, any political preference.
Like it just goes beyond like that, it's such a superpower.
Is what did it feel like to you when you
went to this And maybe you have an example of
what country was that you were like, I've never been
to this country. It was the first time, and you know,
is there a memory that brings the comes to you?

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, I mean coincidentally it was an English speaking country,
but still it was a different culture. And I remember
when years ago, around that two album release, we went
to Australia for the first time and we would remember
when mall signings were like oh yeah, so we went

(39:39):
to the mall.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
I'm telling you more appearance is sobering.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
It was. It was insane to the point where we
made national news, like it was so loud in that
mall with girls screaming, and like we couldn't even stay.
They had the whiskers out because it was causing such
a problem in this particular mall that they had to

(40:06):
carry us away and we couldn't do the signing or
performance or whatever we were gonna do.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Were you guys just like laughing where you're like what that?

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah, it was like it was so loud. There's a
there's a frequency, and it was at this that same
it was the same way at the show that that night.
There's a frequency sonically that you hit that the noise
sounds like a hiss hm. So it could become so

(40:36):
loud in a in a particular room that it goes, oh, sure,
that's all you hear. And it was like that's that's
when it comes human white noise where it's like it's

(40:58):
so loud in in in the facility, and that's where
it was in the mall. And we did a show
in Australia at the Arena at that time and it
was the same thing. As soon as we stepped out,
it was like his the whole show, and I know
I sounded like ship because because I was just gonna ask.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
You, oh, you gotta have those.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Ear Back then, there were no ear monitors. You just
had wedges.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Oh that's right.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeah. Legs, ladies and gentlemen are the speakers that face
the artists and that's where we get our sound from. Nowadays,
we have these things called in ears where we can
wear them and it sounds a little bit better. But
back then we didn't have those, so that's all we had,
and they were useless.

Speaker 4 (41:45):
Because because that hissing sound is coming in the same
direction that.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Speakers projected, it's a it's blended in and I swear,
I know I sound like trash.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
There are certain y a certain point in that where
you were like, Okay, here, I am a kid from Philly.
I'm in Australia on the other side of the world.
I'm at a concert at.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
A mall where where all I hear is a hiss.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
I mean, what was that moment like for you. You know,
this might make me sound a little pretentious, but we
never had you ever hear a band having those sob
stories of we were together ten years without any deals
and you know, we finally made it. We were together

(42:37):
for six months and this when we got discovered by
Mike Bivens, and then a year after that we got signed.
And then after that, like our first single went platinum,
and then like we were on a tour with Hammer
after that and all this other stuff. So I just
felt like, this is what it's supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
You also got to think about I mean to kind
of come.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
I guess that's a great question. I think about the
fact that you enter a moment in pop cultural history
where that box could really feed you forh you right,
and euphoria. There's not I don't think that kids reached

(43:20):
that level of before anymore for any musician. Like maybe
there is like one that there's maybe maybe Taylor Swift,
you know, but that's a mature that's even that it's
a mature tour. You know, girls are singing along whatever.
When you were touring, they can't even sing along because
they're too busy screaming, you know, and every time you

(43:41):
hit a note, it's like a thing. And so that
was a moment in generation where people had no phones
out right, they went taking pictures, they went recording, they
were receiving music at his purists, which is they're taking
me on a ride. And the music was scientifically built
to take you in this story, to then take you

(44:03):
to that bridge where it's this climatic resolution to the
story I'm telling you, and then and then soft landing
in you into what that song was meant was supposed
to mean for you or your interpretation what that song
connected to you with right yes, And so to me,
it's like that was a moment where music was and

(44:23):
music is still one of the most you know, one
of the most beautiful superpowers of the planet. Fact that
we can tap into a universal frequency, we all can
dance to the same be together. It's magic. It's absolutely magic.
But you think about that moment in history when you're
in Australia and you're experiencing this thing, and you're you know,
a kid from Philly and you're in this you enter

(44:45):
a point where like if you were as undeniable as
the people that were noticing that you were not noticing yourself.
You were destined to be at a proximity of opportunity,
and it is a perfect st right with things like
this lined up. But then you cannot deny that you
also have thirty plus years of consistency. You know, although

(45:08):
up to the point we're coming out for a circle
sean to the fact that you have a residency now, yes,
where people can come, you know, to Las Vegas and
experience that again and it's still holding up and you're
still killing and you're three years in and that.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, well, we had a residency in the Mirage, which
is no more. Actually the Mirage has been raised and
now it's going to become i think playing Hollywood a
hard rock or something like that. But we do have
a short residency that we've been doing for the past
couple of years at the Cosmo. The it's really just

(45:44):
like four shows a weekend. I think they added two
more shows or whatever. But yeah, that was a great experience.
And what you what you realize is our careers are
a lot like our lives. Like I'm not the same
kid I was in high school, you know what I'm saying,

(46:06):
Like their pockets where you transition from being that kid
to the young man, to the older man to the
mature man. So like in life, gently or not so
gently guides you there. And because of that, you have

(46:27):
to adapt, and you have to take on the you
have to take on the landscape that's in front of
you at that moment in time. And what I've noticed
with a lot of artists is that they get stuck.
Just like I said, you know, I thought success like

(46:48):
this was just how it's supposed to be until it
wasn't anymore. I had to change now. I had to
not get so upset about the fact that, oh it's
not nineteen ninety anymore, it's two thousand. Yeah, exactly right right,
Mother're like, it's not to change, So you had. I
had to change my perspective, my mind state, my understanding

(47:10):
of what the industry was and what life was and
what life is now. And for some it's really hard.
And because it's really hard, a lot of times we
hear a lot of tragic ends because there are some
people that aren't able to transition, so they get stuck.
And I won't lie, it's hard to really look in

(47:35):
the mirror and say, man, you're not as popular as
you used to be. So how old were you when
you had your first hit? I was like eighteen, so
you were like still in high school? Yeah, I mean,
well I was out, I was out, I was I graduated.
Let me say nineteen, like nineteen when I was out.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
So I mean, being a world superstar at not eighteen,
nineteen years old, when your brain hasn't fully developed yet,
it must do something to your psyche at that age,
and so that that may be why it's that much
harder to transition at this point.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Right, Yeah, I mean, and also the fact that you
just don't understand what that means because you never experienced it.
You never experienced a transition, so it's like, what does
that mean? Like there were people that were telling us, hey,
it's not always going to be like this, So there
were people that said this to us, But it's still

(48:35):
hits you like a ton of Yeah, it still hits
you like a ton of bricks when it happens because
you're never prepared for it. No matter how to tell
how much.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
It was your youth going like what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (48:46):
It?

Speaker 2 (48:46):
It's not even you don't know what you're talking about.
It was more or less like, Okay, I look out
for it when it happens, and then when it happened again,
it's never how you want it. It just happens. And
then it's still bitter that when it does transition and
you start seeing people. The industry is very strange, and

(49:09):
I don't know how it is with acting, but the
music industry has a very coarse way of being done
with you.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
It's very cold Turkey.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
It's very cold turkey, like you could be hot, hot, hot, and.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Then they're done.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
You're done. People just don't want to listen to your
music anymore. People moved on, moved on to this, moved
on to that, and they just kind of thwart you.
And you're like, wait a minute, but I remember this,
and they were like yeah, yeah, yeah, we don't care anymore.
We've moved on. So you're sitting there and you're wondering, Okay, well,

(49:52):
what I'm supposed to do with this body? What am
I supposed to do with myself? So those years of
dealing with that can take its toll. And I won't
say I had it hasn't with me, like just mentally

(50:13):
what it does and how you have to find your
way out of it because no one teaches you how.
That's another thing about the music industry. The music industry
is one of those businesses where people say, hey, you're good,
here's a contract, here's you sign it here, and then
now you got to deal with this bunch of money.
You gotta go here, you gotta go. There's no school
for this ship. You're just thrown in and you're just

(50:38):
meant to deal with it however however you you you
can and hope.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
So you have a strong fight, family foundation.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Again, the trust thing, going back and again that that
was that was the great thing about me and my
guys is because when the chips were down and if
things didn't feel right, we had each other and we
were able to say or somebody ornate or want or
myself will say, yo, something about this ain't right, and

(51:07):
the too the rest of us will go yeah, I agree.
So we can all stand in solidary O cars yeah
and say I don't like this opposed to a solo artist.
And again, I think that's one of the reasons why

(51:27):
we get mixed opinions about who we were as people,
because contrary to what people might think, we are nice guys,
but there are certain times where we didn't have to
be where it wasn't we had to be something else.
And I've noticed that with a lot of people in

(51:50):
positions of power, when you don't comply to the system,
the friction then that when they also have the wherewithal
to go, hey they're assholes, spread the word oh yeah,
and then does the stories start coming out, Yeah, they

(52:11):
were arrogant. So when you hear that, you instantly go, okay,
that's how we play it set up. Yeah, so we
then create a hedge around ourselves. So if I didn't
know you and you come up to me, hey, man,
you know we got that yo, Man, who the fuck
are you? So I might come off like you know that?

(52:33):
But it's my defense mechanism, right, because yeah, because there
have been so many people that violated those boundaries and
again taking things and usurping power over you and all
of those elements, people that things that people don't see.
All they see is oh, Sean or this guy was

(52:53):
an asshole because he did this and he said that
and all this other stuff when you don't even know
half the story as to why. No context, but yeah,
there's no context behind why I became the way I've
become like, again, I'm a totally different guy from when
I was eighteen nineteen years so I've seen some shit
and I've experienced some shit and lived through some and

(53:14):
lived through some stuff. So because of that, yeah, I
may not be so nice to some people if I
don't know you well.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
Now you see life differently, right, and you see them
for what they are, right, Because when we're young, we're
trying to become what we know we are, and when
you meet people, you take a face value for the
most part. When you get older, you can see beyond
the face valu exactly, you know. And I think that's
an interesting thing that you bring up, which leads me

(53:43):
to this question.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
As a realization that what you are word and how
it all began is shifting.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
You've always been an entrepreneur, You've been an advocate for
a lot of different things too, Yeah, your advocacy with autism. Right,
for the last twenty years, you've you know, you've been
able to find purpose in so many different places. You know,
how when did you start kind of pivoting into these
things that were really important to you? Also, like in

(54:17):
entrepreneurship too, because I know you've started different businesses and
you're you know you stay active, You're not you know
you're not You're never just been waiting for the next album.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Well that's I think that goes with everybody. We're more
than who we think we are. And and for years
I've been trying to understand personally like why me, Like
why are all these great things happened to me? And

(54:45):
then I had a son that was diagnosed with autism
at too and that hit hard because now I have
the challenges with a child who I love with all
of my heart with a condition I never knew about

(55:05):
that I have to learn about and understand and not
that just support the woman that I'm with and making
sure that she feels protected. I'm dealing with all this
and you start to wonder like, oh, this is why
I'm famous. Interesting. I get it now. So it was

(55:33):
deeper than the songs and being popular and being in
a group and having people's scream in Australia. Now I
have the ability to actually change things or bring things,
certain things to light, so I do my best to
use that the popularity, the fame, whatever to bring awareness

(55:58):
to something that that's bigger than me. It actually gave
my career purpose as to what it is I'm really
here to do, and the singing is just the pye
product of me hopefully. And it's hard. It's difficult because

(56:26):
there's a lot of there's a lot of humble pie
you gotta eat to make people see things the way
that you see them and hopefully acquire some level of
empathy to want to assist and help. But again, I

(56:53):
believe this is why I have my son, to help
people like him to live and have a certain quality
of life that they deserve. So I have a lot
of plans. I have a lot of ideas and things

(57:13):
that I hope to bring the fruition before I'm out
of here. But you know, it's it's a autism has
become a very personal thing to me and and it
also made me look at the world different. It gave
me a little more empathy for people that are going

(57:36):
through things, not necessarily autism, it could be anything, but
just to take a beat and to pause and give
some people some time of letting them know I understand,
even if you don't like. I think that's what's part

(57:56):
partly missing in this world, like our lack of wanting
to just take a moment and give people grace. You
know that that That's what my son has done for me.
His name's Micah by the way, and he just turned
twenty three, not too long.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
What's that.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Yeah, so you know he's changed things in my head.
He made me really and just seeing him it keeps
me focused because he is the definition and maybe don't
meet him one day. He is the definition of purity. Yeah,
he's pure, like one hundred percent pure. He doesn't care

(58:40):
about race. He doesn't care, he doesn't has no ability
to hate someone. He only knows love. That's it. He
loves his family, he loves his iPad, he loves his
eggs in the morning. And he's good.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
What a great reminder, right, the one.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Sense of life. He reminds me that that is what
life is about. All the things that we're doing, that
we do is and the truth is we do all
of these things so that we can have these conversations.
I enjoy talking to people like yourselves because I always

(59:24):
leave with learning something, always same, like, there's always something
I can get out of it. A conversation like this
that can help me become a better person.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
And Sean, you know what that what that comes from
and I love to hear your perspective on this for
it as we kind of wrap up. But you mentioned
something that led me to this thought, which is, you know,
how do you leverage your gift and how much father
is that gift supposed to be?

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Like how much Father is supposed to go?

Speaker 4 (59:52):
And I think it's it's in these lessons, It's in
these moments when you go, oh, that's why this gift
is meant to be your license to go beyond your
expectation and all of us I've been put you know,
I sometimes we talked about it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Sometimes your family is either.

Speaker 4 (01:00:11):
You know, your worst influence at the beginning, and sometimes
your family is the best inspiration. You know, and I'm
talking about the same members of the family. There's like
half and half.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
Some people thought you do it, some people thought no way,
you know anyway, but I think the job, Yes, get
a job, because the truth is how many people really
make it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
But the point I'm making and it is you're a
quick reminder and I'm trying to kind of really get
to this moral of the story, which is everyone has
a gift that's either has been cultivated or has not.
And when you harness that ability to see beyond yourself.
Whether somebody saw it for you or not, you get

(01:00:53):
an opportunity to beat your own expectations. And therefore this
magical moment of one, how much more can I do
with this?

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Now?

Speaker 4 (01:01:03):
When that takes over is when you realize, oh, my
superpower is in amplifying the most important things about life
for you might be you know, getting back to the
simplistic things of life and enjoying that every day, the eggs,
the iPad, you know, and the beyond that, Like, oh,
what I can do with the fact that if I

(01:01:24):
put together a dinner, I can raise a little capital
with all my friends and just reinvest into the well
being and the sanity of all the families. Right and
honestly I command you for that because we can go
our whole careers and understanding that our higher purpose with
the gift that we were given and the opportunity to
touch these many lives around the world, also comes with

(01:01:45):
a responsibility to say do or leave something behind that
makes that humanity better. Because with that kind of power
of amplifying or connection, you know, we all should.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Do something with it.

Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
It's not about just you know, buying this and experiencing
the that and like and having the plaques on the
wall is about what each plaque reminds you in the
moment you left behind. And I think that you have
lived your life for such purpose, and you have lived
your art to the fullest, you know. And the fact
that you not only has your car still looks like

(01:02:20):
a Ferrari.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Man like, you're literally looking like.

Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
You're still ready for another thirty five years of life
and artistry. And it might be at a different pace,
if we all can agree with that, yeah, a different pace.
But it is just it's just such an honor to
meet such a you know, such a gray man like you,
who I know will be a friend and and beyond that,

(01:02:43):
you know, to learn from someone who has done just
a global, extraordinary achievement. But at the end, you have
not lost the thing that connects you with every fan
you touch for all these years and all these three decades,
which is the humanity. It's very obvious humanity is still
alive in you. And it's just such an honor. Man,

(01:03:04):
It's just so beautiful to hear you talk about all
these things.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Absolutely, And I want to I want to share something
with you before we before we sign off here.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
You know, before I left the house, my wife Elsie
was like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Are you going to tell him the story?

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
And I was like, yes, maybe I'll tell him the story.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
So I've been.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
I've been married thirty years and thank you, man, and
i've been. I've been dating my wife since we were
in high school. And the moment we started dating, the
moment I planted my first kiss on her and we
decided we're going to date, was to your song oh
and we and we had that your first album song
and uh, I think I'll make love to you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Your first album.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Was the song I Just Lives.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
No, it wasn't song, but it was, but it was
the album that I had that I was like, I'm
gonna go to her house and play this album.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
So it wasn't a particular okay, so the story.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
So I put the album on and we were chilling
and we were I mean, I was like sixteen years old.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
I was like a sophomore in high school. And it
was that that started my relationship with my wife.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
That's beautiful and we're starting together now and we got
two kids and thirty years later, so thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
That's why we do what we do. Man, Yeah, it's
about connection. But the biggest misconception about our music, which
is kind of half right, is we sing for the ladies,
which is true, but we also sing for the fellas. Yeah,
Like we tried to be the when you're at a

(01:04:46):
loss for words and you don't know what to say
or how to say it. We're the audio Hallmark card.
You kind of literally just you could play it and
it says it all and all you got to do.
Just sit on the couch and just do this, you
know what I'm saying. I just kind of get the

(01:05:07):
arms out like this, and man like he.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Said, like what he said, That's what I was trying
to do my sophomore year.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
And I was like, you know, you also said.

Speaker 4 (01:05:18):
What you also tell the fellas is that, hey, fellas,
it's okay to be romantic.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
You don't got to be the alpha. Yeah, we get it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
You got the car, you get it that you can
lift weights, like you know what I'm saying, Like, I
got you. You're in alpha, but this is your romance
part of it. That's kind of keep your flame and
relationship alive. And I think that's that was the ammunition.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
Yeah, I think, oh man, I don't want to get
too deep into it, cause I know you got to go.
But I'll say this, it's it's uh. I see a
lot of cosplaying of men mm hmm. Like they have
all the surface things just like you said, they lift weights,
they got cars, that got money, and all those other things,

(01:06:02):
but they really haven't really dealt with being a man
too much. So they hide themselves behind all of these
material things because that's what they were taught via social
media that that's what women like. Yes, guys, women like
nice things, right, That's that's true, But that's not all

(01:06:26):
that they like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
And that's the way. That's not all that they want.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
And that's not all that they want, and that's not
all that they need. Like we we have a disconnect
with male and female these these days, man and women
that in those cycles and in this ecosystem of relationships,

(01:06:50):
like everybody meets each other with their fistsballed up, you know,
everybody's defensive, and everybody has this laundry list of things
that she needs to do and all the things that
he needs to do and all this other stuff, and
it's like you lost it, you lost you. You have
all of this music, you have all of these stories.
You have all of these examples of men and women,

(01:07:12):
and however, you know, whatever your orientation is, but how
you deal with things and relationships and you base it
off of surface material items, you lost the message. You
completely lost it. Guys, y'all don't know what you're witnessing.

(01:07:34):
You don't know truly what love entails. It takes time
because everybody wants their love affair and happily ever after now,
and I want it now, like you know, I want
the Instagram photos now that all that bullshit like it's
a lie. Real relationships develop.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
And time, and it takes humility.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
It takes humility. Honest love, as Chris Rock said, is
a service industry. You have to be humble. You have
to you have to serve not just women, but men too.
When you have that mentality of wanting to serve the
person that you love, then the cortisol decreases, like everything

(01:08:22):
goes down, because that partner knows that he or she
has my back. I can depend on that person and
you only develop that with that type of mentality humility,
as you stated, and time. Good relationships has to go
through a period of all those ups and downs and

(01:08:46):
mistakes and fuck ups and I shouldn't have said that,
or I should all of those things, Like it just
doesn't happen like this, and we're in such a manic
state of self gratification and I want it now and
I need it now and I want the money now
and I want to love now, and like it's it's insane. Yeah,

(01:09:07):
it's really is insanity.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
It's box is checked, you know, not suppose.

Speaker 4 (01:09:10):
And there's this there's like endless mating dance, Like it's it's.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
Not a it's it's beyond. It's beyond connection now.

Speaker 4 (01:09:20):
It's like it's it's it's just like you said, it's
about to check the boxes for that Instagram frame, you know,
that TikTok video and like, and that's become the exchange,
the mutual contribution to each other's you know, vision boards,
you know, and you know the best prescription to fix

(01:09:42):
that is, you know, your first and second album very
very important that we prescribe that to you see it
because I tell you that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Take it from Fred.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Yeah, Hey, guys, don't sleep on coffee dates. Mm hmm,
don't sleep on those. Don't listen. If you want to
avoid a lifetime of pain and anguish, go get yourself
some coffee. Don't do the fancy dinner because that's not
what you look like. Sweetheart, does that? Yeah, sorry, that's

(01:10:19):
not what you look like. That's not what you look like.
The makeup, the hair down your ass, and the dress
and the thing that's pushing you. No. Ten in the morning,
when you just slay your dragon and you put on
some yoga pants. You meet your future husband at a

(01:10:43):
Starbucks or some sort of barista place.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
You gotta talk simple, Can we talk? Can we talk?

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
Talk it out? Because that is the most one of
the most vulnerable moments in your life. When you just
wake up and your brain isn't alway already work, you
get the real motherfucker. Like you know what I'm saying,
Like you want to just you can take it to
leave it. But if you want to do all the
dress up stuff and act like something that you're not

(01:11:12):
and he's gonna act like something he's not and all
this other stuff, go right ahead, have fun, but you're
not gonna get into the real person until you have
that coffee day.

Speaker 4 (01:11:20):
Imagine how great it is to go on a coffee
dad and have a great like hour and a half
two hour conversation with somebody, and then you're like, I'm
gonna pick up for dinner tonight, cub blam.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
I'm telling you what.

Speaker 4 (01:11:31):
I'm gonna spend at least fifteen twenty minutes trying to
pick what am I gonna wear it tonight?

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
Then then when they come looking like that, you're like.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Oh, sit versatility, now you appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Verse Yeah, it fellas. You get what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
They've got the aloe away.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Listen, I'm trying to put you on a little game.
You know what I'm saying. Don't go Yeah, don't go
for the whole production yet that ain't real. Like, hey,
I like you whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
Like you too.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
Let's go on a date, Let's get some breakfast, Let's
sit down. When the sun is out, where the light
is shining right on her face you can see everything,
and on his face where you can see everything, see.

Speaker 4 (01:12:12):
The freckles, see those getting that man.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
Yeah, no filter, no filter, you get to see the
real human. Like, we got to get back to being
humans again. We are becoming these plastic versions of ourselves
that we synthesize, and that society has felt like it's

(01:12:37):
okay to be this way. No I'm gonna tell you no,
if it's not authentic, if it's not who you really are,
if you're not able to express yourselves the way you're
really able to express yourselves, then you won't learn much
about yourself. Because guess what, ladies and guys, when we

(01:12:57):
really express ourselves and say who we are and someone
claps back and say, oh, that shit sucks, that's a
good thing for you to sit and think about. Well,
wait a minute, that's probably why I'm single, because there
are people that cater to me and just you know,
coddle me because they want to either have sex with

(01:13:20):
me or have my money or whatever the case is,
depending on the circumstances, and you never really get to
the real you. We just talked an hour about finding
our purpose in life, and you only find that by
going through trials, by going through things that really expose
your ability to fight.

Speaker 4 (01:13:37):
And you're gotta be honest with your patterns, and yeah,
because your patterns are the ones that like killed your time. Yeah,
you know, they're the ones who like, Okay, I have
this cycle. I have this pattern.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
The moment you.

Speaker 4 (01:13:49):
Allow yourself to break that cycle, to break that pattern,
you discover new universes that actually are more you than
you expected from the image you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
Create of yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
So we gotta be real with ourselves first before we
can be real with anybody else. And that's hard to do.
I understand looking in the mirror sucks, but it's it's
for yourself. Well yeah, except for you, you hands some devil.
But but but you know it's it's hard to do,
but you have it has to be done. Go on

(01:14:24):
a coffee date.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Coffee dates. That's like a beautiful way. I wish.

Speaker 4 (01:14:28):
By the way, we're gonna have to make this to
two episodes because because I got next time.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Yes, yes, you know, we gotta do it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:36):
We gotta do like we gotta look at all of
our guests and we gotta you know, we gotta like
hand select this cigar round, like we got to have
a cigar around with another to.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
There's some big body betties and uh you can it
might be too early depending on when we shoot.

Speaker 1 (01:14:56):
Well we'll have to be six you know what else.
You know the suggestion I've had, I don't know. If
you look over there, he has a stage, he has
a piano, he has some congo congos.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Wo.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
Yeah, maybe we get a little music going over there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
I mean, hey, you know, bring a couple of friends, whatever, people,
you know, make it a whole, make it festival.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
That should be our season finale. Make it guys.

Speaker 4 (01:15:20):
When I like that, I's coming back before we go.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
I want to also want to bring awareness to something else.

Speaker 4 (01:15:27):
If if you all love this conversation, if you discover
how much Sean is like like you and and and aspired,
you know, to see the teachers in the in the
wisdom that he's brought to the table. You have an
amazing podcast that you know that I happen to be
a guest on. Uh it's called on that Note, And

(01:15:50):
you know you have a beautiful format. You're going to
see him perform a uh, you know, meaningful song that
kind of brings everyone together. But most importantly, the conversations
are really special and I think you should get a
lot of love for that, and thank you right now
you can you can find the podcast where you find
the podcast on yoututube.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
I'm also on Apple Spotify, you can, you know, if
you want to hear just the audio and yeah, I'm
everywhere man like all DSPs and all that good stuff
that Yeah, so yes, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:16:22):
Also no, no, no worries, no worries, and uh, I'm
Wilmrim about Durama.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
I'm Freddie Rodriguez and.

Speaker 4 (01:16:27):
This is what's our thorough Mago Shans Dogman and thank
you so much for listening until the next episode.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Pay