The Art of the Pivot with Matthew Lillard

He's Shaggy. He's Stu Macher. He's about to be in the next Superman. The guys sit down with Matthew Lillard for a real one; the highs you've seen, the lows you haven't, and the surprising path back. Matthew digs into craft, humility, and what gets you through the in-between.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, more about the wrong. Hey, I'm Freddie Rodriguez. Welcome
to the podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yes, yes, yes, we're very excited, but I'm a little
more excited. But you're also quickquially as excited about I'm
very excited to Uh.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
When have grown up? Grown up? Grown up?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Let's I'm trying to keep a professional here, but I'm
not because I.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Don't.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
I haven't had many opportunities, uh to tell you the
things I want to tell you on this podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Oh yeah, tell the long story. Ladies and gentlemen, who
do we got here today?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
But but I think but let me introduce our amazing today.
Who is We have a lot of research.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
My name? You forgot my name?

Speaker 2 (01:07):
No, I just want to drop I just want to
drop your your wrestlement because I think it's important. We
want to welcome Matthew Lillard Togo's podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Thank You.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Matthew is an old friend of mine, but we'll get
into that later.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
So we'll name a few things here that I think
are are relevant to bring up SLC Punk Major, Major
Colt classic.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
She's all that she really.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Was in a bag of chips summer catch, which is
how this man and.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
I locked eyes and fell Madly, Come on.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Fell Madly.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Thirteen Ghosts iconically brought Shaggy to life in the Scooby
Doo movie the sentence which were your absolutely incredible let's
see I mean their devil currently right, yes, and and
then you know, I mean there's a gang about the things,
but also one thing, like just a humble, humble drop

(02:05):
over here, you're going to be.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
In the next Superman movie.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
We have so many questions, scream we forgot oh, but
you know, and obviously everybody know it's like such an
obvious okay, and obviously the screen franchise, which is.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Kind of incredible. So so mad let's begin.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, yeah, tell us a little bitout where you're from.

Speaker 4 (02:35):
Where were you born?

Speaker 5 (02:36):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
I was born?

Speaker 3 (02:39):
I think it's super important question. Actually, I was born
outside of Detroit, Michigan. I was born in Lansing, Midwest,
mid very Midwest. I identified deeply with being from Michigan. Yeah,
same thing, right. I don't think that ever leaves you.
It's in my people's how I was raised, It's who
I am as a man.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
It's that's why you're yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's a blue collar.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Thing to the work that we do that I think
people don't understand or appreciate. You're like, oh, you're an actor,
You're fancy. I'm like, well, I am fancy. When we
go through that list, that sounds really fancy. But you
don't talk about the years when you don't know if
you're working. You don't talk about like the ebbs and
flows of work and where that leaves you and how

(03:24):
that makes you feel like just trying to get work
feels like a real thing.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Anyways. But born and raised Michigan.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
My mom and dad moved out with my sister and
I when I was ten to Orange County, California, so Tustin.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
And then when from there to New York to study acting.

Speaker 6 (03:43):
How old were you when you went to New York
twenty one? So had you acted before you went to
New York?

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Well?

Speaker 3 (03:50):
I had, yeah, I mean not professionally, but at like thirteen,
in eighth grade, I found something that I was good at.
I always say this because I think it's important to identify.
I was an obese teenager. My mom and dad are
both obese. I was a transplant from Michigan. I had

(04:15):
a severe learning disability in which I could couldn't learn
anything from a board but if I couldn't, I couldn't
hear something and process it, but if I could read it,
like history was great for me. I could read a
really high level, but I couldn't like spell to save
my life. And math was a disaster, so I did
learning disability. So all those things sort of shaped me

(04:37):
as a young man. I found acting. I found the
one thing that I was good at, and that's all
I ever did since from that moment forward, I just
kept acting.

Speaker 6 (04:47):
It's funny you say that the thing that you were
good at, and that was the thing when our first
episode here, when we interviewed me, that's exactly what I
had said. I went through my childhood without being good
at anything. And there's something about that age, right, It's
like you're defined by what you're good at, right, right, Sure,
Like your friend is good at baseball, he's the baseball guy, right,

(05:07):
or or so and so is good at mathematics, and
they're that person. And then you feel lost because you're
not good at anything at all until you find the
thing you're good at.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
And it's sort of.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Especially if you're bad at things, or especially if you
feel like an outsider anyway, right, I mean, I had
so many things that sort of like just put me
other than right.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
And so.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
When you found something that clicked and you felt like, oh,
I'm exceptional, not only was that.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Rewarding because it gave.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
You a sense of identity that go, I'm good, but
then you also found your fellowship, You found your people.
I mean drama people. Theater people are my favorite people
in the world. We can have a dinner party in
my house if I invite five actors. We'll sit there
all night. Oh yeah, and we end up.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
Telling stories about theater.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Like we just end to my people like gregarious and
together and there's like.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
A love, there's a bonding love.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Amongst actors that I think permeates the crafts and the profession.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
And also you share a reality, right, Like you also
share a reality of like how do you keep the.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Light on what you do what you love?

Speaker 2 (06:12):
You know what when you do what you love that
doesn't necessarily as consistent or it was actually sure of
a shot, but it's but it's exciting that you say
that because when people think about the performing arts, right,
they see, you know, the audiences see red carpets, see flashlights,
and they see, you know, all the action behind the scenes.

(06:33):
There is so much humbleness that happens. You know, you
get really humbled in between jobs all the way up
to the op all the way up to the one
job that lasts you a certain amount of years, and
you're like, okay, now it's ending.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Oh I didn't even think about what happens now?

Speaker 2 (06:49):
You know, there's just a lot of uncertainty that that
you now have to build some type of I'd say, like,
you know, not just chaosist, but you have to have
a state of mind that keeps you plan to so
you could keep searching.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
So what's your state of mind? So how do you
how do you process that?

Speaker 1 (07:09):
What being?

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, just like how do you so this idea which
I think is interesting, this callousness, like how do I
how do you develop a toughlon sort of how do
you how do you get how do you get through
the down times to get to the other side? Because
it's not I always say that acting is never what
kills an actress career?

Speaker 1 (07:31):
What kills an actress careers? What's between the kingdom? Right?

Speaker 3 (07:34):
And that's the thing that I need to you know,
questions like how do you how do you like what
what do you actually do?

Speaker 1 (07:42):
To get to the other side.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
You know, I would say, I mean, I would love
to hear what you guys think about this, because for me,
it's about keeping the engine warm. As long as you
keep doing it in some ship or form, get on stage,
two scenes, do classes like keep the engine warm, it
keeps you, I think, at arm's length in your mind
because because if you're like, oh, man, I haven't performed

(08:05):
in like eighteen months, or like I haven't gotten a
job in six months or whatever, you know, that cold
time might make you think maybe this is not for me,
maybe like I'm doing. But if you stay in class,
and if you're keeping your engine warm and and let's
say you have an audition once every two weeks, but
in between you're just hitting the stage, doing a scene

(08:26):
with your friend or like, you know, I think that's
the stuff that keeps you out arms length, because when
you are these auditions and they come so scattered throughout
the years, sometimes you.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Gotta be two auditions.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
If you're getna auditions every two weeks, you're the only
man because you're not you're.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Auditioning for like for me, it was like the Pacific
Best Module of Pages.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Okay, it was a regional commercial. So what do you
hear your answer for this? Yeah, but what I feel
like everyone.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
Watching is like, what are you talking about struggling? You
have been famous and have worked your entire.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Life, but you also have to You have to remember
I played fast for all these years, right, Nobody thought
I could ever do anything but that. And if you
rap a page on everything from the nineties, the eighties
and the nineties, anybody who play a character like that?

Speaker 1 (09:14):
That was what she wrote. That was it. So there
was a crazy uncertainty when I finished.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
So but then you finish, and then how long before
you work together?

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Then I made you six days six days?

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Right, But the point was like I went back to, like, okay,
what happens when this ends? So three years before seventy
Show ended, I started looking for all these independent films,
these little parts that nobody wanted.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
To give me in studio movies.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
So I would just say, Okay, these movies are going
to be watched by the industry, and they're the ones
who I need to convince that I can do something
more than this. So it was like an underground heist too,
so I would have a shot of being in the
room when the time seventy Show was done because nobody
wanted to meet me because they're like, oh, he probably
speaks like that, he.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Probably looks like that. Whatever.

Speaker 5 (09:57):
You know.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
That So long story short, when I did three years
before seventy Show ended was I did generals where every
casting director, whatever, producer, what, everybody. And I was already like,
oh fast on the seventy Show for like however many episodes.
The point I'm making is that by the time I exited,
I was at least allowed in the room again, unlike

(10:18):
I was being called in me because I was being
offered like, you know, the American pies, like you're the
foreign exchange student again.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Like whatever, and I'm like, uh, you know, I don't.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Know, I want to play this shit again, right, So
so I think that that my answer is that there
was a level of uncertainty that happened there, and I
just I was very lucky because if you remember, on
Summer Catch, which was my first film, it was my
first film ever, I got cast kind of a similar
character to remember, you know again, innocent guy Lien's virginity

(10:48):
to Beverly D'Angelo.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
You know, like it's amazing, it's a legacy moment. Roll
the clip, Please roll the clip.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
But but so anyway, so I'm saying that then you
have to take a break from TV because you just
went from that and like where do you go to
the next thing or whatever. So there was a couple
of years where I was taking a break so like
I could have a shot at coming back right, right,
Because so.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
In those couple of years, what do you do?

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Did you go to class?

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Like there's an actor out here watching, yeah, and they're like,
oh yeah, okay, that's what they My whole thing is
like we talk about these esoteric things we have a
hold on. We have to keep within arms and we
have to keep the motor running. Hunt No, but no, shit,
what do do you actually do? Like what are the
things you did to stay connected? Yeah, so that when
the time came, you're like you had a shot to

(11:38):
come back, Like when we.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Use struggling, Oh, that's a good question.

Speaker 6 (11:43):
I you know, in between I would just produce and
write and I just always I always felt like if
I kept my brain creative, right, Like, it was the
moment that we.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Had this opportunity to be like there's a little light on,
right the light is on in Hollywood for us for
a second, What else can I do around that? So
I called MTV and I watched an MTV show, right
because like, I got to do something, and I knew
the cable never had network guys, so when a network
guy called the cable like MTV, they'd be like, oh shit,

(12:13):
like Auston Cutcher wants to do punk on MTV, Yes
to a series, right, Like, So I was trying to
hack the game to get myself in it.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
But to your point, what you do it in between?
You know, I was.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Delusional to thing that, Oh I'm a producer too. Oh
i'll direct as well, I'll do voiceover, you know. So
I had to pivot right like, and I did handy
Manny on the right. So like all this stuff was
just like I gotta figure out how to make this
look like I've been working this whole time before I
get my next vehicle. But it was a lot of
like a pilot that didn't go or a series that

(12:46):
went one season, right, Like I had that ugly phrase
before I got into the later years.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
But again you're going back to like what you're in between.

Speaker 6 (12:55):
You try to stay creative, Yeah, I just you were booking, No, listen,
I have the same thing. Man ups and downs too, man,
and I just felt like the times that I wasn't working,
I just found that as long as I kept my
brain creative, I was in good shape.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Right.

Speaker 6 (13:12):
It was the times when I wasn't. I wasn't you know,
when I was focusing really on family and being at
home and like not being creative, is.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
When I started to feel rusty.

Speaker 6 (13:21):
So it wasn't necessarily me having to pick up a
script and like say it, you know right, I just
had to keep the wheels turning in my head.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
What about you? You guys sound very secure. I would
lose my mind. I was losing my mind. I would
lose my mind. Yeah, I don't do well when I'm
not working. For the longest time, I would. I would
define myself by work. So I would be like, oh,
I'm doing a movie. I'm doing another movie. I'm doing
I'm like then I was comfortable whether. Yes, it also
brought in money, which was a thing. But I had

(13:51):
a narrative. I could tell myself and other people, Oh.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
I'm doing a movie.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
I did it, indeed, but you know, at some point,
you know, I've told the story a bunch times, but
it's worth repeating as we're talking about the same thing.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
You know, at this moment where I didn't know if
I would ever.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Come back like I had done Scooby Doo too, I
thought I was the shit.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
I'm like, well, I'll always make movies. I was at CIA.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
I got bumped up CIA because when I got to CIA,
I'm like, oh, now I'm at CIA. If you guys
don't know, CIA is like the biggest agency at the time.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
It still is, I'm sure, but it's the death Star.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
It is like literally it's like the you know, and
everyone was there and I'm like, well, now that I'm
at CIAH, I'm now going to walk in and compete
against all the guys at CIA. And that's a joke.
That's not how this town works. The town does not
work like because you're the same agency, you can't get
the same opportunities.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
You know.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
And at some point, you know, I was a boy
for long stretch of my career. Shaggy was a teenager
and I was thirty two years.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Old, thirty three years and you're at Defense. So was
everybody in the cab fair.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
I mean, the same thing, but you know, and at
some point I was like, it just dried up, just
dried up.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
It wasn't working. And so, well, why do you think
that happened?

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Because I think that I think the industry needed me
to become because nobody was interested in me playing a boy.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
I don't know. I mean, I just had to grow
up and I but not young enough.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
Yeah, And I had a lot of I had a
long run of like Summer Catch and then you know,
whatever we did, Like I did a bunch of big
movies at the time, and I just always assumed I
would get big movies, and then I didn't get any movies,
you know, and I didn't get any And then at
the time, I was like, well, I'll just go to
a TV pilot, like three pilot seasons after that's when

(15:44):
they still had pilot seasons, right, And I did the
biggest pilot that had ever been done at Fox, A
Treasure Hunter. I'm gonna forget. I forgot National It's not
National Treasure, it's I'll find it. Put it Homeland, put
it under the scroll on the bottom, and it didn't

(16:05):
get picked up. And then I was like, oh, we
have to adjust because my mortgage because I was like, oh,
I'm just going to keep making money so my mortgage
was out of control, we had two fancy cars out
of control, my wife didn't work, and private schools was
killing us. And I was like, oh, if I looked down,
the Scooby Doo Too was an incredible payday for me.

(16:27):
If we didn't have that, I'd be teaching acting back
in Michigan.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Wow, it was. It was that drastic after that, yeah,
I mean yeah, because it kept me going.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
I mean for two years or so, I would get
like something small, but I was I was eating all
those reserves. I don't think anyone's interested in this story.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Let me explain why it's important. Let me explain what
it's important. Because we often sit here and we have
the people that we invite to be in this thing
are people that have really been instrumental important images in
our lives, right, and so our guests are not like
someone's promoting something like, we don't do that.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
And the reason why this is important.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Is because the perception to a general public of all
of us recognizable faces is that, oh, well, I mean,
you're an a tax bracket, you're like that, you're sustainable.
And what people don't realize is that it really is
what they say it's only one percent that works all
year round, and then everybody else is dooking it out
of what's available.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Right, it's one percent that lives above the poverty line,
which is right different and I think poverty line right
now is like thirty seven thousand dollars a year, right,
So one percent lives above the poverty line.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Right.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
And so you do the math on availability, and you're like, well,
look at all these streaming platforms, look at all these
networks whatever, look at there's there's got to be a
million jobs for actors.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
And the truth is, somehow it just not enough.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Well, the interesting is that, Look, if you have a
streaming job every day every year for five years, you're
doing great, right.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
The reality is that a lot of us if you
have eight.

Speaker 3 (18:11):
Episodes on your favorite streaming show, A lot of times
you get four or five episodes.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
That's a lot. That's great.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
You make a lot of money in those four or
five episodes. You may not work again for another sixteen months.
So if you extrapolate that payday plus your agent takes
ten percent off the top, right, plus your manager's ten
percent off the.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Top, your attorney five Well, not everyone has attorney, but yes,
TV shows technically, and then.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
The government takes forty percent because you are then taxed
at the highest test bracket. So the reality is what
you pull down to feed your family over the course
of the year, amortized out, it's actually not that much
money if you don't have the.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Ability to keep working and you're living in LA and
you're living in LA. And the funny thing is that,
I I think that there were ways.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
That this is I think interesting for people to understand
that as an actor, you would get a residual, which
means if your show appears again on television, you would
get paid. When you got paid the first time you
did the show, that's an incredible payday, and that's the
second time. And or you'll do like a national commercial,
or like you'll do a couple guest stars, and that
would allow people to, you know, to have a blue

(19:24):
collar lifestyle. But our industry, like every other industry in America,
is being decimated by people trying to turn a profit
on every single dollar, right, and they are cutting corners
everywhere they can, so we no longer get residuals.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
That's out. We don't get.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
Those streaming right, streaming all.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Streaming signs just most of the content played right now.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yes, and even when you like I did Good Girls
at NBC, they replay it streaming on peacock and you
don't get a residual off of them.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
So they are like every industry, squeezing every out of
it to show corporate profits instead of letting blue collar
items make their way through this industry.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
So in those moments and that in that journey.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
To return to full time, have you how have you
been able to not just necessarily sustain but keeping the
dream away.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
So the thing I think I started here and I
got off course which I talked too much.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
This is gonna turn into dark licors. Listen.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
I at some point I realized earlier in my career,
like I was, Oh, I was defining myself by the
jobs I was having, and then stopped working. I'm like, oh,
And I looked at my life. I was like, Oh,
if you had told me my life would be what
it was when I was having this crisis, I would
tell you that I'm one hundred percent station. I think

(21:03):
I'd done like thirty movies and I had done Scream
and Scooby Doo and made lots of money, and I
would have told you as I had started my acting career,
my journey to be the actor, I was that that
would be satiated. I would be I would be happy,
I would be full, and my life would be set
and I could like sort of walk away peacefully. And
the reality is that the more I got, the more money,

(21:26):
the more sort of opportunities, that the less I felt
I was empty.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Right, And then I realized, Okay, well if we can.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
If that's the case, right, if no amount of money
is saved, if I get no joy from the amount
of money I'm getting, right.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
And there's.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
No joy, Oh you're an Academy Award film with the descendants.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Like none of that was satiating.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
So the reality is like, well, what makes you happy
has nothing to do with the job, they say it again,
nothing to do with the job, has everything to do
with the fellowship of the people around you. I think
we're just talking about the Sitting at a table with
actors is my favorite thing in the world.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Teaching acting.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
I love teaching acting, right, And so I was like, oh, okay,
I re configured what is important to me in this
business isn't about winning an Academy award or making money
it's really about, Oh, I like the people. I like
working because I like being on set. I like being
around actors because I like that energy. I like those people.

(22:28):
And so in this moment where we sold our house,
so I was like, we're out of control.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
My wife and I were like, we're out of control.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
And my father in law very famously said to me,
you could sell pharmaceuticals and make a lot of money
or super charming. I'm like, I'm shaggy, dude, I'm not walking.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Thank you appreciate it. That a doctor's office. Yeah, he's
like selling biagraph.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, take this man, Take this man.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
It'll be hard today.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
But the idea of like doing that right and taking
that like way out, I'm like, I can't raise my
three kids, like I can't look at my kids to
be like that's not that's not who I was. So
then my answer was, oh, we're gonna buy a house.
And we still have the house. It's an incredible house.
That is twenty two hundred dollars a month in mortgage.

(23:24):
My wife went back to work, we got rid of
our fancy cars. I leased a Prius for nine years
and great car. And I was like I went back
to like, Okay, if I can't make money acting, that's fine.
If Hollywood's done with me. If they're like, yeah, dude,
we don't, we're not interesting because there's so many actors
that never come back, and we can name a.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Million of our from our generation.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
I mean, I think we're probably like you know, talk, Yeah,
we know a lot.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
So if that's the case, then that's fine. That's not
my decision. But what am I gonna do? My answer
for that was, I'm gonna start teaching. So I started
teaching acting. Teaching acting, I developed a deep sense of
like pride and craft and my own art, my own
beliefs around acting. What great acting is?

Speaker 1 (24:15):
How do I get?

Speaker 3 (24:16):
Like I had to take as an acting teacher, you
have to take what you believe in your core and
apply it in a loud room situation which is not
a scene, study class, and see if it works, and
see if it holds up?

Speaker 4 (24:28):
And is it? Do you teach out a school?

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Do you have school?

Speaker 3 (24:32):
I went back, So I taught. I walked. I was
shooting a movie in Vancouver, and I walked in. He's
gonna be so excited because I'm gonna say his name.
I walked into this. I walked into Vancouver Film School
and I ran into the sky, or I said to
somebody at the thing. And I do this all the time.
Whenever I'm on location, I'll call university. I'm like, hey,
I was in scream. I'd love to come in and

(24:52):
talk to the really cool So I do that all
the time. I'll drop into a class and sort of
like let them ask me questions. And I think that
that's a super valuable taking our wisdom and impartying our
kids coming up. But I said to this woman, I
was like, I'd like to come and teach. And the
guy that runs the school at the time, his name

(25:13):
is Bill Marchant.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
He called me up.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
He's like, are you're not going to tell my kids
not to take school, are you. I'm like, no, dude,
I think university is the best. He's like, okay, so
I wouldn't. The most actors are like, yeah, you don't know,
walk away, just go to Hollywood make money. And my
whole thing is like college school. Class is about making mistakes,
and it's about stretching for greatness and being brilliant and

(25:36):
failing miserably, like every chance you get. And so I
did my presentation to the school. The whole school is
like you know, two three the kids and I took
questions and I was like, I like that. I'm good
in that space. I like that space. And at the
end of it, he asked me to join the advisory board.
And then I went back and forth and taught there
for years. I taught in la I taught a theater

(25:59):
company in New York.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
So amazing.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, it's great, it's great, and it's really.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
It's probably rejuvenating to it.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
I mean, assuming, like you know, to kind of see
that sparking their eyes and seeing that there's a possibility
that there's a proximity as someone who's done it, you know.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, well even more so.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
I mean I always say, look, I'm here to steal
from the beauty and vigor of youth. This like there's
like a naive energy that's like hurling to be seen,
and like watching people try to be brilliant when they're
just learning, you know, to sort of like there, you know,

(26:37):
day one in the craft.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
How did you, beautiful?

Speaker 1 (26:40):
How did you develop your your teaching? Did you ever
teach before? No? God, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
I think listen, I mean, how hard can it be
right right, But that's it's really about play right.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
It's like, you know, can encourage. I totally disagree.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
I mean, listen, no, I wonder nothing so simple. I
can't wait to see your class next week.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
I will bring my students because I.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Know how hard it is.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
To people structure.

Speaker 6 (27:11):
You know.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
The funny thing is that I thought I was teaching
what I struggled with the most, which is emotional like
sort of every time you're reading a script and there's
like that breakdown crying moment when you know your artistic
intelligence is telling you, oh, this is this is where
a huge moment, this is what needs to happen. And
SLC Punk is that example where I was there's a

(27:33):
moment in this movie. I did Glass the Sea Punk
where he finds his best friend dad, and I started
the scene and nothing happened, and I had to go
through all these.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
Like, oh, you couldn't get there.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
I couldn't get.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
There at at all at all, And I finally did.
But I how to brutalize myself into it.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Do you think some of that must have been how
many years you have actually lived as as a person.
I feel like we as actors mimic the memories and
the echoes of the things we've been through.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
And I think you were very young and when you
were with that movie.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
Yeah, I was twenty six, you know, but here regardless,
I mean, right, you know, my job as a teacher
is to show you the potential in yourself. Right, can
you can I apply my teachings to you as an
instrument and can you start that journey in terms of
how that process works for you earlier than like being

(28:35):
stuck on set at twenty six? And the reality is
that look, ninety nine point nine percent of the kids
to go to class are never going to step on
the set. Sure, So the reality is, at the end
of the day, you're teaching humanity.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
You're teaching people connect to their own.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
There's so much about the practice that that is actually
therapeutic and psychologically strengthening. I think, I mean, you're what
and what we do is an act. I think you
know some people are like, oh, I'm in quotes, I'm
really shy, right, which means that people are reserved. They
have to take you a long time before they can
open up or take some manu for them to crack it.

(29:09):
But people say, hey, you know, if you take a
little acting class might be fun, and you see the
eyes out and even though they don't have any intentions
to actually be an actor, I mean, I really think
there's a lot of benefit and understanding. You know, your
body language, your limitations, you know, how far you can go,
how loud can you get? You know, No, no one's
ever explored that those tools.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Sure, especially now, I mean I think that so much
of you know, I think the kids, people, everyone's living
on social media, we are constantly being reflected what people
are presenting as perfect, super intimidating as young actors to
look at people ahead of them in this journey, right right, Oh,

(29:50):
look how successful they are.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
I'm not.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
I'm less than I'm not that right, So there's all
these inhibitors. I think that we're being presented as young artists,
as singers, songwors, dancers, like everyone you're like anywhere near,
like how Billie Eilish young, incredibly successful like Charlie, all
these young actresses and actors, and you know, it's it's

(30:16):
really it's it's humbling, and it's really hard for actors
to see themselves finding success when there's all these images
that people so far ahead of them.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
So what you're what you're teaching. You know, you're also
taking swings. I'm assuming right, you're also trying to find
the next thing and all that stuff. Well, when went
along the line, did you feel like, boom, I got something,
I got to taste again. I'm swinging again. And do
you feel like momentum started building for you?

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Well, I mean, look, I'm in the moment right now
in my life where I'm having this crazy resurgence. That's crazy,
and I would I would say, like, so five Nights
of Freddy's we were just talking about it before went
on the air, massive hit, playing the Baltimore character and
this massive franchise that most people probably don't know that
was just huge. And then on top of it, I

(31:15):
do I made this joke recently, I said, the only
reason I'm working is because people are longing for nostalgia.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
And I was joking. I kept having these people reaching.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
I was actually I know you were joking, But there
is this idea of like, I do think that people
who grew up in my movies, your our movies are
now making decisions in Hollywood, right, And I think that
that's beneficial. But look, it's not for me to ask
why it's for me to be humbled and ready to

(31:46):
shirk and excited about what.

Speaker 6 (31:47):
Yeah, so when you so, just to go back a
little bit, So you you went to New York and
where did you So you went from here to New York?

Speaker 4 (31:54):
And when you decided to be an actor?

Speaker 1 (31:56):
And what did you go?

Speaker 4 (31:57):
Did you go there to go to school?

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah? I started in La I had started a theater company.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
And we were charging fifty people fifty dollars a month
to produce plays. And I was nineteen. It was me
and my partner, Dalton Grant and Mary Angelo Pino Davies.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
These are people that if this stays in they'll be
very excited.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
But we would charge these grown ass actors fifty bucks
a month every single month, put people to work. But
that means that we had to keep producing plays and
make sure that people kept giving money so we can
keep making, you know, so that we can keep doing
place we want to do. And at some point during
that process there was people way more talented than me,
way more trained than I was, had crazy resumes that

(32:40):
were paying me at nineteen fifty bucks a month, and
I was like, I don't want to be that actor
who got by it because he was just charming. I
want to be a better actor. I want tools, and
I want to be able to walk into a room
and carry my own And so I was like, I
gotta go to New York. I went to New York.
I started circleing the Square. I was there for almost
two years. Right before I finished, I started to audition

(33:04):
and my third audition was for a movie called Serial
Mom with John Waters. And I literally walked in to
my waiting tables job on the Upper East Side and
I said, I quit tonight. And my manager said to me,
he's like, you know a lot of actors I've worked with.

(33:25):
There were a lot of waiters were actors in New York. Yeah,
and if you quit now, you can't come back for
a job. And a lot of actors when they come back,
when they're done with a movie, they're going to need
a job, and you're not gonna have a job. And
I was like, all my friends are coming up tonight,
We're all going to get drunk.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
I quit, And so I did.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
I quit, and I have yet to go back at
some point.

Speaker 6 (33:49):
Maybe, but yeah, So then you did that movie and you.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
What held me?

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Then?

Speaker 3 (33:55):
Twenty two two two or twenty three, and is that
what kind of launched your film career?

Speaker 4 (34:02):
Was that?

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah? I mean you know, I mean it's like launch. Yeah,
it was a big movie for me. I play Kathleen
Turner's son. Yeah, unbelievable experience. John Waters is an icon.
It was like in his world, like I was, like,
it was an incredible experience, you know, my first day
of almost at school, my first day of running, my

(34:26):
first day of shooting. I was running across the street
and I was running so hard I tripped and fell
in front of this stunt car and almost got hit
by this car. Who And John Water's like, what are
you doing? I'm like, I'm running. I was like, it's
a movie.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
It's gotta fit in a box, dude, you can't just
be running.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
I was like, I had no idea. I mean, I
was that green. I don't know if it really launched
my career, like.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
You know, it started a journey.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
It wasn't like overnight I got a bunch of movies
like I then went off and did Mad Love with
Chris O'Donnell. No, but but yeah, I got Yeah, it's
my first of my first job. What was your first
Why am I talking the whole time.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Well, because this is it's nobody's gonna watch this ship.
Nobody's gonna watch this ship. What was your first job?
My first well, that's a good question.

Speaker 6 (35:26):
My first movie was a film called Walk in the
Clouds with Counter Reeves and Anthony Quinn. But my first
I did this TV show called Angel Street and I was.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Like, and you were the Angel, Robin Givens.

Speaker 4 (35:37):
I did an episode.

Speaker 6 (35:38):
I was in Chicago, and like TV shows would come
through Chicago and I would guest star did the Untouchables
and they came through and yeah, yeah back then.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
You know, Wait, so how did you get the audition
for the film.

Speaker 6 (35:53):
It was just like they came to Chicago to audition
people who were there and I got it man, out
of like three thousand people.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
It was a big, big I did that change it?

Speaker 6 (36:03):
I mean change every yeah, because it was a big
It was like it was Count Reeves and Anthony Quinn
and like a.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
Big Fox movie and like this big studio movie. And
it's what brought me to to l A.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
You know, but hold on, hold on, I want to.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Get back to I want to get back your first
it's the first thing you did.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
I'd done some like smaller commercials men where I was
joking about the Pacific smartin patures. That was the regional
commercial for California. And uh, with that money, I paid
my dues and I became a sag.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
You know, you tapped Hartley, Yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
And then so I so I started auditioning some some
cool stuff and I did like this Sony camera commercial
for Japan only, and then I did Four Corners, which
was like a big drama on CBS, and I played
an autistic boy who died so it makes a lot
of sense and which was a perfect segue and great.

(37:01):
But anyways, so and and I was, you know, but
my thing was that I was, you know, I was
being sent out to these additions, and my agent would
get this great feedback, right, They're like, oh my god,
he's very funny, he's very good, he's he has a
lot of fun but he has an accent. Yes, And
they're like, and you know, every no one on TV

(37:23):
has accents, you know, and that's the bad guy, right.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
So so that kind of.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Became like kind of this recurring thing where people are
you're gonna have to lose your action, you have to
lose reaction.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
I'm like, well, fucking good luck with that, you know.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
So so you know, incomes in like this pilot audition,
and after a lot of no's and a lot of hustle,
I was the guy that we'll go to backstage west right, yes,
and like we'll look at the agent submission only auditions
and I'll just show up to them and then I

(37:53):
would sign up. We've told the story before here, but
I've signed I was signed up in the you know,
in the cult sheet or whatever. The sign I would
sign up my name, you know, they ask you for
your social security yeah, and then and then you have
to put your agency, So I would do like Smith
in associates, and then I would put like my pager

(38:15):
numbered or like my or like my house number, and
then I and then when they would see that, they
would like in the casting director assistance, they wouldn't know, right,
So what I would do is I didn't have the sights,
so I would like look over the people's shoulders and
I would just memorize the.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
Way that's come on. You would literally and then you
would go in the room.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
And then I would go in the room and audition
and then like I'll get called backs and you know,
and and I, you know, they'd call my house and
my sister answered and yeah, it was it was but that.
But I didn't have an agent, so I knew that
those were the best parts. At the same time, I
had this night and every Wednesday night, I will go
and meet with all these actors. You know, they were

(38:57):
like thirty year olds, forty year olds. And it was
this class was last Void, who was an amazing teacher
and she was teaching me for free because I couldn't
afford it, and changes me to that agent.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
And therefore I would, you know, try to prepare whatever.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
And then eventually I my engine was warm enough, as
we said. And then I auditioned for this pilot by
the creators of you know, Throw Up from the Sun
and head writers of Snel and you know, it was
called Teenage Wasteland and I audition. I auditioned four times.
And you know, this is like the worst time of

(39:28):
my family's life. Like we were eating dinner the other night,
it was like we were laid rent.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
You know, it was real. It was really bad.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
My dad borrowed money to take Thanking to this audition
and like you signed contracts before your network audition and
said you wouldn't make fifteen thousand dollars per episode, I
mean for the for the pilot, and then ten thousand
dollars per episode after that.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
And I was told my dad. I was like, fuck,
imagine forget this thing. And and then long story shot.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
My dad's literally what that was the pay? Yeah, that's
just so iveryrote those Yeah, that's criminal.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Fifteen thousand dollars for the pilot and ten thousand dollars
for episode after that, and then and then you know,
so you get the par can I just.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
Real quick for people watching, just so everyone remembers that
the height of around the same time friends, they were
paying people a million dollars eiod. And what I said
before about when it plays in reruns, right on a rerun,
which happens all the time, you would get paid a
million dollars again, so the reality is that they would
pay you ten thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
And I was reading Guys Criminal, Yeah, and it's crazy.
And then also you think about at the time, you
also like have the agent and like the thing, and
you pay the commissions and the taxes and whatever.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
You're walking you're walking home with forts.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
And I was eighteen, so like the taxes deemed like, oh,
you're eighteen, you don't need that much money to live,
so they tax you accordingly. You know, at the time
it was for some reason, it was an H bracket thing.
If you were between eighteen or twenty four, you should
you you don't need that much to live, so we
tax you more.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
I also want to say, look, I want to acknowledge too,
is that ten thousand dollars a week is incredible in
this industry for that show and the success it had.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
No no, and so so in that aspect, you know,
I looked to my dad and then you know, all
of a sudden, they called you and they're like, hey,
they want you to come back tomorrow, and the day
after that, and did day after that, and then after that,
and we're like, oh my god, we got this part.
And now it's like all I had to do is
not get fired, right. So, like just like Swing for
the Fences, So I created a character that was just like.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
An animal, you know. So we we had a lot
of fun with that. But that you know, you don't
know what that means. You don't know who's watching.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
We were between The Simpsons and The X Files, and
the Simpsons would do this number.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Then we would dip, and then the X Files would
do this number.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
So people are like, that's not working right, But Peter
Roth at the time just kind of held onto it.
It was like, you let's try it next season again.
And you know, remember Chris Carr hated us. They just
they wanted us off the night because they're like, you're
ruined the Sunday nights. It's like, if you remember television,
Sunday Night at Fox between The Simpsons and The X
File was like prime. Sure, so so that's what happened, man,

(42:05):
But but you know, kind of like fast forward a
little bit to the trajectory and some of those big moments.
I used to watch her in all these movies, and
then I found myself in my first movie, a little
movie called Summer Catch by the producers of Varsity Blues,
and and I I'm like, whoh, this was is the movie?

(42:25):
And I remember it was Jessica Bill's first movie. Sure
you know, Brian, you know it was Brandy Murphy, Brian Dennahey,
you know, it was Freddie Prince Junior and Mark bluk
Is a bunch of guys, fred Ward, you know, and
then Matthew Lillard, which I don't know if I how
many times I put a tollot at the time, but

(42:45):
I was, and I am your biggest fan. That is
not true, and it's absolutely true because there's a guy
who like won And by the way, I was like twenty,
I was twenty, I was nineteen.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
I was nineteen or you and.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
I love I loved comedy so much and so when
I was in this movie, to see you in this
movie was like, I felt like I had made it
because I was like, this is a guy I look
up to because you not only were a great actor,
you were hilarious and until today, I would say the
best part of every Freddie Prince Junior movie next week.

(43:27):
You know, Freddie has his own podcast too, so you know,
but have you talked to Freddie?

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Have you?

Speaker 6 (43:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (43:33):
I've seen him around but not Okay, same same.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
My My point I'm making is that you were the
first one to make me feel like I was doing
it right. And and to me that was a major
moment because here I am in a studio Warner Brothers
movie while I'm playing this four xtin studio and TV,
you know, and at the time, to do a big
movie like that was a big deal, and especially because

(43:58):
Varsity Blues then what and like, I'm with this cool
ass cast and like Freddie Jr. And you and I
had watched you do such great work and I was like,
I just wanted to be like you.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
So I just want you to understand. How are you?
How amazing men you go.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
And surpassed me by working for the next twenty years
making one billion dollars.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
I mean, you are instid of a bitch, So I
don't tell you.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
One of my favorite stories about you is that you
were early on dating a woman, doesn't matter who, but
this person was famous, and you started telling me the
story about how you met. And I distinctly remember that
Wilmer took two days to tell me about the relationship,

(44:46):
long saying in the chair on set, walking back like
hang out, Like I'm listening, I'm fully engaging the story
because I know the person that he's talking about to
only get to the point where they first kissed the
first time. Yeah, and they had been in a relationship
for a long time. I'm like, dude, you have got
to tell stories faster. Two days, two days. Then then

(45:09):
I looked at her and she looked back like this like,
she looked like me, and she looked back, and then
I looked at her, and then.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
I texted her literally details, those are the details. And
then I took her.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
I took her to a nice dinner and then she ordered,
and then I ordered.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
I was like, and the bill was yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Then I picked up the bill because you know, my
dad told me when I was little.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Yeah, so I've been to tell you.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
One of the reasons why I learned English in like
metaphors and full sentences. I never knew how to abberiate anything, right,
So like when I tell stories, I had to translate
in my head, always the whole story. I always I
only speak well now I can. I know, I think
in English, but back then I only thought in Spanish,

(45:58):
translated English and dance. Yeah yeah, yeah, and so so
I was even my interviews were not just yeah it was.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
That was a super fun movie. That to me, I
was getting married in that moment. We had our dog
on the uh. We were in North Carolina. Yeah, and
I was either acting, playing golf and or playing baseball.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah. It was a great. It was a great. It
was three months of us just like out there playing.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
You know, the next month after I got married. Yeah,
I remember still married.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yeah that was what two thousand and three.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
We got married in two thousand, so yeah, yeah, that
was two thousand that year.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
But it was it was such a I mean, it
was such a safe and great environment. I mean even
even Jessica was our first first movie for Jessica two
in the Great Brandon Murphy.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
It was just a Joe. You guys had such great things, right. Yeah. Well,
she wasn't really supposed to be in the movie. Really. Yeah,
she was like visiting.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
I forgot the story now, but she was. She was
in one scene and I went to Mike Tolen, director,
I'm like, yo, this woman is like electric. You should
keep her in because she's super funny.

Speaker 6 (47:10):
She was it.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
She was acting, but I think she was like I
actually think she was visiting somebody or like one of
the Tony guys.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
I think she was his friend.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
I forgot, but she ended up I was like, can
we can we make her my girlfriend in the movie.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
So it wasn't a part.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
Of the script originally, and she ended up becoming like
my lov and or was like in a scene and
then we extrapolated her. She was incredible, and then she
went on to have this like media career and this
horrible downfall.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
That was my first experience of going into a movie
and seeing like and you know, Freddie Prince, you know,
was such a movie star at the time, like he
was just a guy.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
You put him in a movie.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Every girl showed up, you know, you put Matthew in
the movie. All of us showed up. Like like I'm
telling you, there was, there was And I don't know
how many times as anybody told you this stuff. And
I cannot say enough, and I'll probably spend another thirty
minutes giving you flowers, dude, but you really made a
difference in my life and my career in general. I

(48:13):
had a level of confidence and a level of belonging
because of what you know, what you have done and
energy and how you had empowered me and how much
fun you were having with me in the scenes all
the baseball stuff that we're doing.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Like I remember, I.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Could'll never forget how cool I felt when I ran
from third and round up to home plate and I
slide or whatever, and.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
You gave me this as the catcher.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
You gave me this hug like domo like and I
was like, I felt like you were approving of everything
I was doing in the movie by you giving me that,
even though it was the two characters, but for me,
it really mattered. And I just I don't know that
enough people can you know, have the runway or the
or the or the opportunity to say this to people.

(48:59):
That really made a different But you're a hero mine.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Oh that Midwest.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Sensibility man, Yeah, I think that is a big part
of it. It's also like just loving.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
First of all, you're very lovable and.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
In that moment, but you are I mean, you've grown
into this beautiful man with an incredible career and you know,
I knew you I was getting married. I was like
this big transition point. You were still this young kid.
So it's you know, it's it's it's lovely to watch

(49:33):
you evolve into this.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Thank you man, star, thank you which is what you are.
Thank you man. Thank you. No.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
I think we we can all agree that it's been
such a privilege to kind of endure the storms, you know,
and to be able to see you, you know not
you call it our resurface, which is like, you know,
I think, to me, uh, there's never been another Matthew
Lillar and that's why we had to put you back
in the game, you know.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
And I also I also would say, we are spared
you the.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Spoiler conversations with a Superman conversation and have some conversations
that's probably best.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Are you wearing a cape? I am not wearing a cape.
They're wearing a mask.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
I can't really. Don't we all kind of wear wear
a mask? Don't all kind of wear a mask?

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Metaphor? I love that.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
Let me ask you, guys a couple of questions. Why
did you start a podcast about craft?

Speaker 1 (50:30):
The podcast? Is that what you said? Is that what
the podcast?

Speaker 6 (50:34):
Well, the podcast is really a reflection of Wilma and
I would have these long dinners and have these long
conversations that would be this roller coaster of this sort
of proverbial state of high school and silliness mixed with
like really really deep conversations about craft and about family

(50:54):
and about life, and and it was always that, and
it was it was it was his genius idea to say,
why don't we just do what we did at the
dinner here at the podcast and this is this is
just an extension of our dinners.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Yeah, And we had a structure and how we we
always had a beginning, middle, and end, Like we also
have to had a resolution to the conversations. We needed
to walk away with something that was solved or figured
out or whatever.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
And we have.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
So many friends and when we had dinner, you talk
about your actor, you know, dinners, it's exact same way.
There's just so much reflection, so many things that happen
in that And and honestly, you know, I was working
with iHeart and so many different things we're producing in
all counts of podcasts, you know, with our production company,
and and I just thought to myself, we don't have
places that that have not This was not built as

(51:46):
a transactional thing. This was built more as like you know,
a therapeutic a space where we can we can dive
deeper with our friends and the people that have made
a difference in our lives and the people that have
touched our careers alone the way.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
And it turned out to be more than therapeutic.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
It turned out to be like we're motalizing these stories
that we help our children eventually visit and go, oh, okay,
that's what he meant when he's been that or last
where he was you know, where where where he started,
and I think that was kind of part of it
is kind.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Of how do we pay tribute to that?

Speaker 2 (52:17):
And for us in our culture, we don't have enough,
you know, for Latinos, there's not enough spaces where where
other Latinos can see, you know, the level of ambition
that has been eventually carried on in order for us
to open the doors for all of us to do
you know, what we do, and and you know, like
we've been working for thirty thirty five forty years, you know,

(52:38):
and and you think about like oh why when right,
why why did we were allowed in? And like what
continue and all that? And and I think now we're
experiencing this crossroad on this, you know, this cultural narrative
of like who what stories get champion?

Speaker 1 (52:54):
What characters you know, get to be on that screen?

Speaker 2 (52:57):
And I think, you know, the idea that we can
multiply the voice doesn't highlight the stories that made the difference.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
You know, who knows.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
You know, maybe someone out there listens to this and goes, ah, man,
I'm gonna.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Hang on a little bit longer. And it doesn't matter
what career.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
By the way, like this is the craft is the craft,
but our craft is also in our journeys are also
universal to any professional in any career. So that's the
biggest I think the biggest negative truth for our podcast
is like what are we leaving behind and what are
we paying forward? And you know, and how do we
give it back?

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Is it rewarding?

Speaker 4 (53:29):
It is rewarding.

Speaker 6 (53:30):
I mean for me personally, rewarding on a bunch of
different levels. We're rewarding artistically, rewarding personally. I think for
me personally, like I tended to be a little more
closed off and shy, you know, and this is this
has sort of brought me out of my.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
Shell to a greater extent.

Speaker 6 (53:49):
My wife said to me the other day, you know,
it's so beautiful about the podcast to feel like your
fan base and the audience is getting to see a
side of you they never saw before, you know.

Speaker 4 (53:59):
So it's it's done that for me, you know.

Speaker 6 (54:01):
And then I get to I get to hang out
with someone who I've known, you know, twenty five years,
and we get to chop it up and and and
you know, all of it has just been super positive.

Speaker 4 (54:11):
Man, I've had such a great time.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
It's good. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
But what's the thing, So you said that you take
things from every.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Interview. What do you? What do you? What are we
taking from this? From this? From this?

Speaker 3 (54:25):
You're well our our conversation, I think for.

Speaker 6 (54:30):
Me, like, I love that you're you where your sort
of Midwest thing on your sleeve, because I'm from the
Midwest and I do the same. And I feel like
it's refreshing right in an industry where so many people
are about ego and posturing and like, and you don't care,
you're you're who you are, and you're not afraid to
be who you are, you know.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
So that's like that.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's been pure.

Speaker 5 (54:55):
I love the the sobering side of our conversation that
kind of told us that even when it seems like
what we love to do or what we're built to
be driftest, there is still a calling to be directly
and indirectly attached to what we've become and pass it on.

(55:19):
Like the fact that you were teaching to me was
was very humbling, because humbling, because how how beautiful that
we can also continue to live in our strength but
have an opportunity to to pass it on as well.
And I'm assuming that was also rewarding for you to
see the spark and to do that right, it's the best.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
So so that that part made what we do very
human at a time where for generations they looked at
all of the characters that we play as like these unapproachable,
iconic moments of pop culture that people grew up watching,
and and did people know that there was some reality

(56:02):
behind the artists that had immortalized these characters that is
more human than legendary.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Right, And I think.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
That definitely touched me for me and in this conversation,
and what I walk away from it is that no
matter how it turns out, it can still be okay.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Right, Oh yeah, I just if given the opportunity to pivot,
you just pivot with grace and love. I think the
thing I like about this moment is that I love
to use two Hispanic men are these examples of having
really deep conversations about craft, friendship, perseverance, and like being

(56:43):
a shining example for every kid out there that's either
Hispanic or not. I just think that that's super powerful.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
I mean, not to bring your full circuit to it,
but you know, it's about looking up, looking up to
the people that you know that lead by an example
that you feel inspired to be and you know, so
this is me giving you more flowers.

Speaker 4 (57:08):
But absolutely, of.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Course that I love this whole. I'll I never get
to talk like this.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
I was, Yeah, I feel like I talked like this around,
you know, in class or we sit in fellowship and
you know, we used to these things called actor actions
where I invite friends and we you know, every two
weeks we read a play and we start with the question,
the question of the week, and I sort of put
us in a circle and have conversations like having you know,

(57:39):
artists in conversations talking about trials and tribulations and these
the journey. I think it's super powerful because you so
many times, you know, somebody's out there feels alone like,
oh it's.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Only me, no understands.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
I'm like, no, did you gotta find your tribe?

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Right? You know?

Speaker 3 (57:54):
And I think that the ability to express that is awesome.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Somebody said before we tag it out, somebody said that
every generation goes through the exact symbol.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Shit.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
Okay, we all deal with the war, we all deal
with the rise of an illness, right, we all deal
with adversity, we all deal with inflation or crashed And
when you think about you know, the common denominator about
how we endure it. It's community, right, It's how we
get through it.

Speaker 7 (58:25):
Right.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
It's the people you surround yourself with this, the people
that you lock arms with, the go okay, we're gonna
we're gonna take the hit together.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
And when I just walk on.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
On the other side and and I think that's.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
We see that in Minnesota, right against ice and against
people standing up.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
People stand up and the whole thing, and they endure it.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Normal people in Minnesota like just like yeah, as like
and for regulating our.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Culture to see all the cultures stand up for for
the little guy who's by the way.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
A giant in this country.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Like it's it's more, yeah, it's it's really it's really
beauty up to do that.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
But that said, I'm Wilmer Volorama.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
I'm Freddie Rodriguez, and yes, thank you, I like the airhorn.

Speaker 7 (59:12):
Airhorndos is a production from WV Sound and iHeartMedia's Michael
Tuda podcast network, hosted by me, Freddie Rodriguez and Wilmer Valdorama.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
Those Amigos is produced by Cooper Mole and Sophie Spencer saveles.

Speaker 7 (59:30):
Our Executive producers are Wilmervalderama, Freddie Rodriguez, and Leo Klem
at WV Sound.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
This show is mixed and mastered by Sean Tracy and
original music by Madison, Devinport and Halo Boy.

Speaker 7 (59:43):
For more podcasts from My Heart, visit the R Heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
See you next week.