Viva Betty meets Dos Amigos

Dos becomes cuatro. The guys sit down with Ana Ortiz and Mark Indelicato - Hilda and Justin from Ugly Betty, co-hosts of Viva Betty, and chosen family nearly two decades in - for a conversation about growing up in front of a camera, the friendships that outlast the run, and why the story they told twenty years ago still hits so hard today.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hey, this is Freddie Rodriguez and I'm Wilmer Valderrama and
this is those amigos.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
But today is quad a full house? Is this the
first time we have two guests? First time?

Speaker 3 (00:24):
First time.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
We are popping your cherry.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Watt? Okay, well, we're very excited.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Because you also are part of the Microtuda family and
all of us are part of these you know, wave
of destinations where our communities can see not just themselves
but here their voices and and and have storytelling that
level that only we could provide, right, But you are
also incredible gifted actors, yes, and saw our producers and

(01:03):
I would say, and very smarty pants also.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
That as well.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, but also you guys have something in common that
I think the fans are probably freaking out about right now.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
And I'm gonna let Freddy introduce that I know them.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
We did we did some small show called Ugly Betty.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Oh that's right, that show. It's only the Star Wars of.

Speaker 5 (01:30):
Yes, yes, we we we did Ugly Betty and and
and I was incredibly fortunate to be a part of
that show.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
And let me just say now on the record, you
know this was their show.

Speaker 5 (01:40):
You know, I was just a guest star on that show,
and they treated me so incredibly well, and we're so
welcoming to my presence and me being a cast member
on that show, and I'm forever grateful for that.

Speaker 6 (01:52):
Well, you were such a huge part of that whole season.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
I mean, your art was so much fun. I'm still
a little jelly that it was Hilda and Geo. But
we don't even I feel like we did.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
I what was that thing?

Speaker 4 (02:10):
There was like a scene like on the dance floor, right, yeah,
where it.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Was like are they going to get together? Scandal also Scar.

Speaker 4 (02:20):
But the hair comes Betty swooping in.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:24):
But yeah, but I thought it was such a fun
storyline and we loved have you you know, I don't
know if you guys know this, but Marky has never
watched the show what so on our podcast he's watching
it in real time.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Oh yeah, I know that part, but I forget that.
So you never watched him in an episode today.

Speaker 7 (02:40):
I watched I've seen the pilot and the finale, the
series finale prior to doing Viva Betty, and I think
that that was one of the most exciting parts about
us doing the podcast, was that, like me watching it
in time, because there's there's so much that that, you know,

(03:06):
things that you perhaps would want to leave in two
thousand and six or seven.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
But also the point.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Is also like watching it as an adult now, Yes,
HiT's different because how old were you when.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
You were in the show.

Speaker 8 (03:22):
We started when I was eleven.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yes, your point not even allowed to watch television?

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Is that why you didn't watch it back then? Because
you were too young?

Speaker 2 (03:30):
You know?

Speaker 8 (03:30):
I think that it.

Speaker 7 (03:33):
I got to a point where I was really embarrassed
by it for some reason.

Speaker 8 (03:39):
Why when you were that age, I think so.

Speaker 7 (03:42):
I think that also, you know, like when we were
also making the show while I started entering high school
and I was going to a performing arts high school,
and a lot of the teachers at said high school were.

Speaker 8 (03:57):
Very very mean to me really because I was working.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Dude, I have a very similar story about that. What
really what I want to hear yours first?

Speaker 7 (04:07):
But well, I just I feel like I wasn't you know,
I wasn't at school every every single day, or I
had to leave early or something because.

Speaker 8 (04:15):
I had a call time.

Speaker 7 (04:16):
I had to go make the TV show.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Big Show at the time, too.

Speaker 7 (04:21):
And it was I mean, this is this is also,
by the way, this is probably season three, so this
is not you know, this is when the show is
it's not just its rhythm, it's I mean it really
it's it's it's hit its stride at this point, I
think that it was probably at the precipice of like
its stride and these acting teachers.

Speaker 8 (04:45):
Haters gonna have anything to do with me.

Speaker 7 (04:49):
They they would also and there were also students, you
know that they would kind of pit against me. So
when we were picking, oh, we're going to do scene study,
so here's this Arthur Miller play X link up and

(05:09):
I would just be left alone. It's like being picked
last for Dodgeball. And then it would be like, oh, well,
there's no one for you, Mark. Here's a monologue and
I would have to then, on top of the fact
that I was also going to work on a full
time show, a full time show and be a full

(05:30):
time working actor, also prepare that monologue. And it was
enough was never enough. I was I was held back
in drama, the drama department for two years in a row.
I was in level one drama for two years.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
I was failed.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
No, but that's I've failed, They've failed me. Being on
that seventies show what they failed. This is a crazy story.
By the way, haters gonna hay girl, you know okay.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Okay, wait wait, but is that it haters gonna hate?
Is that what happened? Well, look, here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
My story was interesting because I had just learned how
to speak English, right, and when I got to this school,
you know, I had to.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Really learn quick that.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Like the grades were not like school wasn't gonna say, well,
he just learned how to speak English and that's why
he's not one hundred percent. Let's give him a bee
like they would just gonna be like it is cookie cutter, right,
same thing with the tangents, right, because when you do
a sitcom, you're on for three, on for two, and
in between you have a week off, right, And during

(06:43):
that week off, I would go back to regular high school.
And there was nothing cool about me in school, Like
kids were like, why do you sound like that? You're
not even the cute one, Like why do you have
your hair like that?

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Is that a wig?

Speaker 1 (06:56):
And like nobody was like, man, you're on TV, Like no,
no one Everyone's.

Speaker 8 (07:00):
Like it was exact.

Speaker 7 (07:02):
And then you're in a school full of I mean,
at least in my in my experience, like like kids
that are studying to essentially what's why or what I'm doing,
you know what I mean. So so then there's also
it's not even just the teachers, it's also it's also
the kids that are just like, hey.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
By the way, training ground for eventually what you're experiencing
Hollywood is the same high school cafeteria that Hollywood is
literally the quad.

Speaker 8 (07:34):
And I had a great I.

Speaker 7 (07:35):
Mean, I was so lucky to like have like a
at least, you know, a group of friends, some of
whom are like still some of my best friends today
because it was genuine protection but it but but at
the time, it was just I mean, it just felt
like the wild West, Like it was just it was
genuinely like, oh, like I don't know how to act.

Speaker 8 (07:57):
Like it also was kind of just mind fuck.

Speaker 7 (07:59):
Where it's an acting and acting teacher is telling you
that you don't know how to act, but you're also
on the number one comedy on Thursday nights at eight pm.

Speaker 8 (08:09):
So I just was like, what is the truth?

Speaker 2 (08:12):
What if? What if?

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Like you were so good on the show, but because
you were so tired, you were blowing it on the class.
I mean we were you were just blowing it, but honestly, like,
oh my god, you're really suck in the class, but
you're so good on TV, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Show or I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm just grading you here.

Speaker 7 (08:38):
I just have to like learn my lines. I don't
know for the thing I'm being paid for. No, but
I you know that that that was the.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Exp What does you says that they were just hating
the teachers?

Speaker 8 (08:49):
I think that I think that, you know, can I.

Speaker 6 (08:51):
Just say something on about this as well? Like we've
talked about it, so I'm not I'm not talking out
of school, but like, also, he wasn't out yet. His
character was very sort of flamboyant and very.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
For all for very gay.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Who you telling?

Speaker 6 (09:10):
Yeah, And he wasn't out, and he wasn't like with
himself or with anybody or in you know the thing.
So I think I think at that point watching himself
and sort of I mean, we've talked about.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
It is the only reason I'm speaking on it.

Speaker 6 (09:24):
Yeah, because I think watching yourself in that way and
being justin and being.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
So sort of like in a sailor outfit.

Speaker 6 (09:30):
Tap yeah, yeah, you know when he's just like trying
to go to school and and be you.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
Know, fit in. I think it was that was a
little bit hard.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
That's so interesting. I can relate to that. I mean,
I didn't know that we were going to relate so
hardcore on that because when I was on the show,
I was so ambiguous, and that was the design and
the beauty where that I thought the show the character
had was that absolutely who.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Cares if if he is if it isn't.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
I mean the idea is that he was living a
life that was so innocent and was so full of freedom.

Speaker 9 (10:05):
Yes, right, yeah, and there was and there was so
much that I think that also at the ages that
we were, respectively, I don't really necessarily think that I
even had kind of the intellectual capacity to understand what
the cultural relevance do.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
You're entering your teens and you're just trying to figure out, Oh,
your teens is like the pre phase before you're an adult,
and at that point you're trying to figure out so much.
Until you're that eighteen nineteen twenty year old, it's really
fascinating how grounded you are and how talented you were
at that younger age, but how free you were to

(10:47):
perform on the way that you also will allow yourself to.

Speaker 7 (10:50):
I mean, I also think that there's something to be
said about and I think that we all can relate
to this sentiment, is when you're surrounded by because we
we work in a very kind of abnormal environment, right,
I mean, just just as like considering you know what

(11:13):
other people are used to, right, sure, we work in
a very abnormal environment. And I think that feeling abnormal
as a person, whilst simultaneously being an in an abnormal environment,
at least having normal, grounded, supportive people in a community

(11:35):
around me, that that is the only reason why I
feel so so grounded. And I feel like Anna can
very well speak to that because she was at the
forefront of just grounding me, just just in my in
my personhood, you know, of of of the the young

(11:58):
adult that I was becoming and then the man that
I subsequently became, I feel like is completely attributed to
honest support, which is.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
A perfect segue to ask Anna, where did you start acting?
I had that question, got question so much all of us.
I've had to answer that a bazillion times. But I know, Freddie,
I know you have so many questions for Anna.

Speaker 8 (12:28):
Questions that I know the answers to already.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
No, Anna, So so.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
You're from New York right, born and raised?

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Where in New York I was?

Speaker 6 (12:37):
I lived in Washington Heights for tell us about like fifteen,
and then we moved to the Upper West Side for
the rest of mine.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
In your in your your father's from where.

Speaker 6 (12:47):
My father was born in Puerto Rico, but he grew
up on the Lower East Side of New York. My
mom was born in Wisconsin and then came to New
York when she was twenty two to go to NYU.

Speaker 4 (12:58):
That's where they met.

Speaker 6 (13:00):
Was Irish, though Irish Catholic, very much that, very much that.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Were you also?

Speaker 5 (13:07):
Were you also, like Mark, were you acting in high
school or where did it all start for you?

Speaker 4 (13:11):
I was.

Speaker 6 (13:12):
I started as a ballet dancer and then I was
on point for a while when you first started six
and then I went to ABT and I was on
point and like it was just awful, Like my toes
were bleeding and I was like, this is not for me.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
It was just it wasn't.

Speaker 6 (13:32):
I feel like to be a ballet dancer, you really
have to want it because it's such a hard life,
and it just I just didn't.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
Want it that much.

Speaker 6 (13:39):
And I liked performing and I liked singing, so that
I went to I auditioned for LaGuardia and I got
in for a voice and then I started stuttying. You know,
it was it wasn't what I wanted to do either,
because I was studying like opera and chamber music and music.

Speaker 4 (13:55):
Theory and that wasn't a fit for me.

Speaker 6 (13:57):
And then I took a year off after high school
and worked and because.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
My mother was like, oh you want to be grown,
You're going to be grown, so like you're paying rent, Like.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Don't think you work every week?

Speaker 6 (14:10):
I waitressed in every bar restaurant in the city. And
then I was like, oh, college looks good. But I
went to a conservatory program for a theater in Philadelphia,
which is where my dad was, and then I that
was just it.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
There was never really a plan B for me. That
was it better or worse?

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Is that because you were in Labyrinth?

Speaker 6 (14:30):
Thought so right lab right after I got out of college,
not right after I went. I toured with the musical
Hair in Europe for a while.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
What was that was that?

Speaker 2 (14:46):
I just.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Like, yeah, I modeled for guc in Italy for like
sums you show.

Speaker 8 (14:55):
Yeah, he has so many cool stories about it. Please
tell me it was.

Speaker 6 (14:59):
It was one of the It was one of those
backstage do you guys remember backstage there was a paper
in New York that had like cattle called auditions, and
there was one for this musical called Hair, which is
like a hippie rock musical. And I loved it and
I auditioned.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
It was like two hundred people.

Speaker 6 (15:16):
Auditioning and I actually booked it and we toured Europe
for about seven months and we.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Just seven months.

Speaker 6 (15:24):
Yeah, it was amazing and it was it was great.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
So much mayonnaise, so much, so.

Speaker 6 (15:35):
Much everywhere, and it was but it was a lot
of for there was like there was one time though,
because it was a hippie musical.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
And we were young whatever, and.

Speaker 6 (15:46):
They would like throw you know. It was also Europe,
so everything's legal there pretty much, and they would just
like throw you know, joints and mushrooms and everything on
stage and we would just have it. Like but one time,
as we were going on stage for the second act, the.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
Guy who played Burger.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (16:08):
Listen, gave us a little like a little half tap
of like acid, And we ended up doing the.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Second complete and that's the one that got the Tony.

Speaker 6 (16:26):
But in fairness, the whole second act of the show,
everybody is supposed to be tripping, So it was like
method act.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
It was that day.

Speaker 5 (16:38):
Tell me about Labyrinth and how you got in and
and and I'm so just fascinated by that.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
That theater company. I think that theater company is so
freaking cool.

Speaker 5 (16:46):
And you and Philip Hoffmann and John Ortiz, I mean,
and the list was on is yeah, please tell me
about that how you got in.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
One of those things.

Speaker 6 (16:55):
My girlfriend was running a theater and in Chelsea, and
John Ortiz came in looking for a space for lab
and it was just this little black box theater and
so he was like, we need a place to put
on our shows. And because at that time on Broadway
there was a show and the show was was a

(17:16):
Latin show, The Cat. I'm so mad that I can't
remember the name of the show, but the two lead
actors characters are Latino and they cast f Murray Abraham
and like Sigourney Weaver or something. And I think John
Er was like, fuck this, We're writing our own stuff.

(17:37):
We're gonna put on our own plays, and that's how
Labyrinth was born. So my girlfriend, who was running the theater,
called me and she's like, yo, I just met these
amazing guys.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
His name is Don Erties.

Speaker 6 (17:48):
They're they're having there, they have a play that they're
going to put on, and and do you know this
guy this.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
Is before Philip was really huge. He's just sort of
I think maybe he had done cent of a One
Man maybe, yeah.

Speaker 8 (18:02):
Like right at the beginning.

Speaker 6 (18:03):
Yeah, And and she was and you know this Phillips
super half many. He's going to be directing it. And
this guy called Stephen wrote it. There's only a few pages,
but they're having auditions. You have to come on audition
for it. And I was like, all right, let's do it.
So I auditioned and I fucking killed it and I
got the party and the rest, and yeah, it was

(18:26):
but it was a part that you know when you
get something and you're.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Like, it just flows.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Just turn it on, turn it on, just turn it on,
turn on the turn it on, turn it on. No
get no makeup, get off men, Yes.

Speaker 4 (18:43):
Yes, exactly that.

Speaker 6 (18:44):
And I think, you know, I just was like and
I was reading with David's as so I love him, Yeah,
I love him, and so it was it was just fate.
And then we did the play. The play became really
you know, I mean it was a black box show,
but like the times came and like you know, in Arabia,

(19:05):
we'd all be kings and it was just an amazing,
amazing show. Liza was in it, David was Liza Coloons,
David Zayas, and it was just it was just one
of those like magical moments. And then they they asked
me to be a part of the company, and yeah,
it was just it's still it's still like one of
the grounding places for me.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
When when did you decide, Okay, theaters grade and you're
like TV or film.

Speaker 6 (19:31):
I was doing in Arabia this play, and I guess
a casting director from ABC or I don't know whatever
it was, but I somehow got an audition for NYPD Blue.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
I was just about to ask.

Speaker 6 (19:45):
And so they they they called me in and I
and I got it.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
But it was just one scene. And I had never
done any TV ever in my life.

Speaker 6 (19:55):
And I remember standing there and I'm like going over
my lines and Dennis from comes over to me and
he was like, don't bother, and I was like what
He's like, don't don't bother, Like David is gonna David
Miltch is gonna come on and he's gonna change everything.
And I broke out into a cold sweat and I
was just like, no, you know, theater just like lines say,

(20:17):
our lines do, our lines act react.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
In the scene, David Milch comes on lo and behold.
He's like, this is ship and he throws away.

Speaker 6 (20:24):
He's like, all right, all right, everybody come here, and
he has us standing there and he goes, okay, this
I was gonna go. And then he's just starts saying
things and pointing to us, and I guess, you know,
He's like.

Speaker 4 (20:35):
So you say this, then okay, got it good? And
I was just like, I don't okay. I think. I
was like I think I know what he said. Whatever.

Speaker 6 (20:50):
And then we get and we do the scene and
and he looks at me and he goes, that's not
what I told you to say, and I was like,
and he goes, yours was better, keep saying that that
was better.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
I was like, my heart, I literally I never heard
this before.

Speaker 6 (21:09):
I have.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
I had heard that. I really just felt.

Speaker 6 (21:18):
That, Yeah, it was like that was better, So so
just keep doing that and I did, and then he
was like, can you can you come to LA because
I'm going to write you another scene?

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Can you come to LA? And I was like.

Speaker 6 (21:31):
Yes, and so I did, and so it was it
was just sort of like that's then I was in
l A and I was like, Oh, this is amazing.
I like it here, this is great, and so you know,
I just decided to stay there for a little while
and I kept coming back and forth.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
But yeah, that was sort of like the entrance into.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
It's also really fun to kind of hear stories that
validate the fact that that good work can get more work, right,
because a lot of times the frustration of like what
with the perception of like what we all feel we
deserve or what we should be doing next, or like
looking to a head and losing focus on the stuff

(22:12):
that's in front of you, the idea that what you
are holding in this moment actually is the plane ticket
to your next destination, right, And I think a lot
of young actors get really hung up and like I
need to be doing this next, without actually paying attention
to what they have in front of them.

Speaker 8 (22:31):
Right.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Somebody gave me an advice when I was really young.
He said, what's the hurry? And I said, I was like, oh, well,
you know, like I feel like i'm and this is
me like young, you know, mid twenties early trainings woman,
because I feel like I'm hot right now and I
feel like I'm getting stuff and people are inviting me
to do things and getting off forres feel like I
have to get those because at some point, like it's
kind of right now. And he's like, but what's the hurry?

(22:55):
And I was like, I didn't understand what he was
trying to. I was like, you don't know, I'm trying.
And then I looked across from and it was the
guy who was mentoring and this was Johnny Depp. And
I was like, okay, now now I get it. Now
I get what you've made it. And he's like, everybody
wanted me to play the pretty cup, nobody wanted to
give me scissor hands. Somebody want to give me and

(23:16):
and it's like, so you you just kind of played
your own hand, right and and take your time, you know,
And he said, just like focus on doing what you
have in front of you.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
So good.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Agreed that it takes you to your next thing, you know,
because there's no great performances that die there.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Great performances go somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
And I'm not talking about like timeless graveness, you know
what I'm talking about, Just like if you had the
one scene in NYP the Blue right and the other
casting director or the network, which we all know how
the networks were work, Right, there's a casting director, they
see you in that one show, and then they have
you on the show that's on Wednesday, and then they'll
have you the show is on Tuesday, you know, and like,

(24:01):
so it's a really interesting thing.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
But the what's the hurry? Like, enjoy what you have
right now?

Speaker 5 (24:08):
Right?

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
So I had another trainer who said to me, like
I would do my reps and I get to fifteen
right away, you know, and he's like, hey, enjoy every rep, right,
I enjoy every rep.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
This sucks, you know, yeah, I'm suffer in English.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
But if you enjoy every rep and every rep actually counts,
if you're just getting through it, then like it doesn't
do what it's supposed to do for you. But I
think what you're saying is so interesting to say, like, man,
you were enjoying every ticket you got And.

Speaker 6 (24:41):
It's so good to hear you say that, because I
think even all of us sitting here, even though we're
so well seasoned in it and all that, I tend
I forget that all the time, Like I don't think
I've thought of that story in years. That's you know,
but you're You're so right. It was exactly that. It
was exactly just like enjoying that scene and being in

(25:02):
that moment and letting those letting all.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
Of that that anxiety just sort.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Of like, yeah, it did float through you and then yeah,
and for people to see.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Your talent through just that one scene.

Speaker 5 (25:16):
Right, I'm a strong believer in like, you know, there's
sometimes you know, I've come across actors who are like, well,
this is just a whatever, right, this is some indie film,
This is just some like episode.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
This is just some like crappy tea.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
I'm on this thing, you know, yeah, yeah, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
I have a couple of friends who are like, I
just send a tape for this thing, We'll see what happens.
And I'm like, already I know where that tape looks.

Speaker 8 (25:38):
Like that tape, the tape doesn't look good.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Just what I'm saying I gets what I'm saying. He goes,
you know, I said something, I'm not getting it. That's
what you just said to me, right. But it also
comes because it's like, yeah, I don't want that one,
you know.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's just it's a weird energy.

Speaker 5 (25:56):
I can't tell you how many projects I've done where
the director or whoever it is, was like, hey man,
I just saw I just saw you in something at
like three in the morning, and they'll like name the project, right.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
So I always think of that whenever I go into
a project.

Speaker 5 (26:10):
I'm like, even though it's whatever, right, or whatever your
perception of how low it is or whatever, like, I
just try to kill it every time because you never
know who that dude is going to be watching at
three in the morning and how that job is going
to come from that thing that they were watching at
three in the morning.

Speaker 7 (26:28):
I also think that there's something to be said too
about when you like and this is not something that
you did going to a conservatory and studying acting on
the like in the collegiate level. But like, I really
do feel that there is this sense of.

Speaker 8 (26:51):
Like I deserve this because.

Speaker 7 (26:54):
I went to school about it, and that's just not
the way that so this works.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
And I think the way you said that is so
I've heard it so many times.

Speaker 7 (27:07):
It's just you know, like and and and it's been
said in a million different ways, and I just and
I feel like I feel very grateful to have learned
that lesson before, Like like before, I I don't know
felt that way because when I was at n y U,
I mean I did not study acting, but but a

(27:29):
lot of those Tish kids were really walking around like
with their noses held very high in the air that
you know, they because they just learned who Stanislavsky was
and they were gonna be really big stars.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Why do you think, why do you think there is
that I'm gonna call it innocent and not the humble innocent,
but I'm gonna call this the bliss of innocence to
think you are gonna do it?

Speaker 2 (28:00):
What do you think is a miss an ingredient when
why they don't they don't go there?

Speaker 7 (28:04):
Well, I think that it's just it's it's it's steeped
in naivete. I mean, I think that that you do
not understand an industry that you've never worked in before,
and especially when you have people telling you that your
talent alone will propel you into success.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Right.

Speaker 8 (28:25):
And also we measure success very differently, right.

Speaker 7 (28:28):
I think that that if you don't have maybe perhaps
commercial success, but you feel successful in your own ability,
that's success. I'm not I'm not talking about success in
that capacity, but I think that I I studied this,
therefore I am going.

Speaker 8 (28:48):
To be a star. That it just it just doesn't work.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Like I think.

Speaker 6 (28:53):
Also, something that you have to have is just your
ability to get the fuck back up mm hmm, because
I think you get kicked so many times.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Wish that the school so the Curses of the Cologist
taught you how to get up, because that's to me,
that's what they don't do.

Speaker 7 (29:12):
That's the one thing that's missing.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
To fail is that do you think? Well?

Speaker 6 (29:17):
I think I mean, like I said, there wasn't really
a plan B and maybe that's that.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
So that like created a certain grit of like.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
How do you pivot failure? How do you pivot failure?
Like how do you how do you reframe failure as sure?

Speaker 2 (29:34):
A lesson?

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Sure like the fuel you need for the next one,
Like how do you flip it?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
How do you like.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Brainwash yourself into saying it's not for me, for not
for no personal reasons, right.

Speaker 4 (29:46):
But there is somebody who should teach you that.

Speaker 7 (29:49):
But I mean, if you don't know it, then it
hardens you and it and it makes you jaded in a.

Speaker 8 (29:55):
Way that that is.

Speaker 7 (29:59):
Extre really impactful on your ability to actually perform and
your ability to actually be an artist.

Speaker 8 (30:06):
I mean I can't.

Speaker 7 (30:08):
I mean sometimes I feel extremely jaded by by things
and on and I talk about this all the time
about just those those feelings that you really have to
to battle with. But we have the I mean, and
all of us sitting here have the the experience and

(30:29):
the ability to actually, you know, battle those those feelings
and actually come out on the other side because we've
actually seen some semblance of success, the fruits of our labor.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
But even before that, I mean.

Speaker 6 (30:43):
Even before having success, I was still able to sort
of lick my wounds and get back up and go
forward again because I that's what I wanted, right.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
I guess that's the missing ingredient and the recipe that
I was asking earlier, which was, you know, what is
the missing or the commany nominator between those who actually
prevailed to do whether been training in college to do
versus the ones that like decide, oh man, this is
too hard, or like I really need to be realistic.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
It's like there's like levels to this, Like your family
could convince you that this is not for you. Your
best friends can tell you you're like okay when you're
really being great, and like so there's like levels of
diffracturing your attempt.

Speaker 8 (31:28):
Right, Well, believing in yourself.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
And well, believe in yourself is that I agree to.
I don't disagree at all.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
I think believing in yourself is a I mean, it's
like it's hard, but believing in yourself is one ingredient
of a number of skills.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
That you have to learn in order to hold it right.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Because I can believe I can believe that I'm the
next change bond, right, I believe in myself way, I
believe myself that I can be that.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
And but when you come full circle, there's a couple
of things that have to embody right, Like do I
know how to shoot a gun? Do I can't be intimidating?
Give me like a tsunami of things that have to happen.
Do I use sex appeal?

Speaker 4 (32:11):
Yes you do. That's a big affirmative.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yes, it's my camera. But but I think that British British?
Can I be British? The answer is yes, I just
can't do this anyone good.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
But you I guess, I guess the most important part is, like,
you know, how do you push yourself with the audacity
of believing right, and then also add it up to
the skills that you need.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
And now it's like we drive ourselves to like.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Present day and in the spaces that we hold as artists,
and it's an artist. I wanted to point out first
all congratulations and hacks, Oh thank you. Yeah, there's a
lot of people in this company that was very excited
that you know, we're going to talk to you about that.
So uh, I wanted to bring it up because Access

(33:07):
is one of those shows a very few times in
a generation come and they hit a chord and pop
culturally alters, and then when they show up to the
award shows. When that show shows up to the award shows,
everyone's like, oh, that's right, I have to discover this,
I have to watch this. So every time you pop
up somewhere in the level of like pop culture success.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
It gathers more like aura, you know, and how how
how he's been in two of them.

Speaker 4 (33:35):
Yeah, that's crazy, is that, dude?

Speaker 2 (33:38):
I mean, you hit lightning twice? Yeah, yikes. I hope
I hope that there's the third one. Are you still
doing it? What do you?

Speaker 7 (33:45):
Uh well, no, we're we're we're completely wrapped. I mean,
I I think that in uh, this week and then
the next week, two weeks from now from when we're
sitting here, will be the series finale.

Speaker 8 (34:00):
This shows over.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
How was the experience? It was?

Speaker 8 (34:05):
It brought me, it brought me back. I mean I couldn't,
you know.

Speaker 7 (34:10):
As we say in the industry, I couldn't get fucking arrested,
gotcha to I mean because I had gone to college
and I was, you know, having fun in my twenties
and then realized that I didn't have any money left
and drugs and alcohol are really interesting things that.

Speaker 8 (34:35):
Bleed your bank account.

Speaker 7 (34:37):
And then I like moved back to Los Angeles and
moved in with my parents, and I was just just auditioning.

Speaker 8 (34:45):
I was just trying to make something happen.

Speaker 7 (34:47):
Anything it was it was not you know, there was
no turning down any audition. And then just kind of
out of the blue, in October of twenty twenty, so
we're in the thick of COVID, not a vaccine in
sight at that point.

Speaker 8 (35:09):
Got just a.

Speaker 7 (35:12):
Like Paul uh Downs and Luccianiello and Jen Statsky want
to do a Zoom call with you for for this,
you know, And my agent was like, it's a very
small role. It's a very small role. And I'm like, yes, yes,

(35:32):
the answer is yes.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
And had you had you just then with love though
or with no?

Speaker 7 (35:38):
This was this was before, this was before And so
I went on to a Zoom call with them, and
I did the audition, and you know, a zoom audition.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
So thankless. Sometimes it's just comedy.

Speaker 8 (35:54):
It's weird, and it's like trying.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
To be and by the way, you're talking about Zoom
when it was it wasn't like.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Now it's like HDS exactly. It wasn't zoom, like we
know zoom exactly. Yeah, like wreshing itself.

Speaker 6 (36:10):
Yeah, And you're trying to do comedy, which is all
about time.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
It's like the reporter on on the field. It's like
it's okay.

Speaker 7 (36:18):
But I mean it was just and and of course
you know, I I don't know about you guys, but
I always whether.

Speaker 8 (36:25):
It's in person on zoom whatever.

Speaker 7 (36:27):
I leave an audition every time for a meeting and
being like, fucking blew it.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
That was terrible.

Speaker 8 (36:36):
That was terrible. I should quit.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
So many people watching this right now listening to this,
we're not going.

Speaker 8 (36:41):
Like that's on me like that, No, no, I blew it.

Speaker 7 (36:44):
And then uh, then a week later I was on
set making making hacks and we didn't know what it was.

Speaker 8 (36:51):
I thought it was really cool.

Speaker 7 (36:53):
And then it just kind of, I mean, it was
kind of similar to what I now recall of like
what the Ugly Betty effect was as well. I don't
think that, you know, I was too young to kind
of understand like what what like the word like even
the word like juggernaut really meant at all, but I

(37:13):
feel like it was a very similar.

Speaker 8 (37:17):
Experience.

Speaker 7 (37:18):
And and I mean, and then we just had a
great time. It's the litteral It's it's the only other
time since Ugly Betty that I've felt that close safe and.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
You felt that freedom to just like swing.

Speaker 7 (37:36):
I I just I felt I felt the freedom to
swing big and and if it missed, that's okay, because
I missed, and that's fine.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
But that's also being seasoned right, that's like being in
your strength and being like, that's what take one, Take.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Two, right, three four?

Speaker 7 (37:55):
I I swung the I mean, and also you know,
but but the difference I think with hacks that that
which is something that I'm i think the most grateful
to have learned, was a lot of these people come
from like an improvisational background, like from the Second City
UCD worlds, which are absolutely like completely out of my

(38:19):
realm of comfortability, right, I mean on Ugly Betty, you know,
you swing big, but it's like you swing big on
the ways in which you say the line. It's not
it's not oh, just throw something in here or something.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
I was like, do something else with it.

Speaker 7 (38:36):
And it's like that was just never my experience, and
so it took me a couple of seasons actually to
like really be comfortable with that.

Speaker 8 (38:44):
But I feel so grateful to have learned.

Speaker 7 (38:46):
That's amazing of like, wow, I feel like I know
how to like improvise.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Do you feel like this role in this show has
reintroduced you to a whole different level of not just
mature care characters, but also like what's next for you?

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (39:02):
Do you feel like you definitely did? I think so
I mean I think that it. I think that it
reintroduced me to you know, like I guess on like
I don't know a base level like you know, the
industry or like whatever of like, but but I think
that as an actor as an artist, I feel much

(39:25):
more fully formed as as an artist, and I feel
really invigorated and very curious, you know what I mean,
in a way that I just have never I don't
think ever felt before like as an artist, you know.
And and also I think that leaving Hacks, I'm now
calling myself an artist, and I think that that was

(39:47):
something that I was never able to ever say.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
So who go ahead?

Speaker 5 (39:52):
Not? And I felt like you you took a big
swing too, like when we did Ugly Boddy, you know, like,
especially now that I've known you.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Twenty years, Oh dare you?

Speaker 5 (40:01):
Oh man, she's she's she really created a character like
even like the clothes that you wore and every it's
so opposite of like who you are in real life,
Like like how did you how did you put that
character together? Was that all your idea to do that?

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Or and even and even sort of your personality.

Speaker 5 (40:19):
On that show I felt was really unique and really
it felt really three dimensional.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
I mean all the stuff you do that I've seen
you do, I feel that way.

Speaker 5 (40:26):
But yeah, but I felt like like what he was
just saying, just now like you had you had a
lot of freedom to do that and really shine through.

Speaker 6 (40:35):
Yeah, she was written as like she was written as
like she was like, uh, like driving a mini van.
She was much more sort of like a mom and
much more sort of that you know she was, and
I didn't. It is one of those things though, like
now that we're talking about it, of like of what

(40:56):
I'm hearing a lot now for auditioning for going on
tape right is the advice is like how do you
see this part?

Speaker 4 (41:03):
Not what they want, but what do you see in
this part?

Speaker 6 (41:07):
And I think Hilda was the first time that I
just was like, I think I know who this is,
and I think it's this I don't you know, so
the words were there, but I was like, I'm a
New Yorker.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
My grandmother lived in Queens my entire life.

Speaker 6 (41:23):
I know Queens, I know New York, I know latinas
in New York and like the way, and I was
just like, so I'm just gonna I'm just gonna do
what I want to do and so I guess that
was kind of the biggest swing was just sort of
like taking that risk of like not going in there
and sort of being this like mini van driving mom.

(41:47):
I just was like, that's not a queen's girl, and
I feel like I'm just gonna do that, And so yeah,
she was I mean, listen, don't get it twisted. My
cousin after she watched the pilot. My cousin Francesca called
me made money.

Speaker 8 (42:00):
You all.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
That is me.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Coming on, like yo, women in my neighborhood. Man.

Speaker 6 (42:14):
And Richard Shepherd, who was the director, I think one
of the coolest compliments I've ever gotten as an actor.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
We interviewed him on our pod.

Speaker 6 (42:21):
He directed the pilot, Richard Shepherd, and he said, you
weren't the first choice. You know, they make when you
do the studio testy, you bring in your choice, and
you bring in one.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
Other person because the studio that's right.

Speaker 6 (42:33):
That's not the one that we want. And you were that.
And he said, you came in there and fucking took
that far and just took it and stole it and
ate it and there was no denying. And I like,
to this day, I'm like it's nice. But I think
about that a lot when I'm sort of being timid
in my auditions now or second guessing myself or oh,

(42:55):
you know, I like, you know, and this is only
even recently because we're so much on tape now, so much,
so much on tape.

Speaker 4 (43:03):
Yeah, that I just have to be like, have.

Speaker 6 (43:07):
Fun, just do what you want to do and be
creative and like let the chips fall where they may be.
You're going to walk away from it feeling like, well,
I left it out on this stage, you.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
And so I think that was kind of my biggest swing.

Speaker 6 (43:21):
And I did shrink a bit after that, Like little
by little, I I was working, but I.

Speaker 4 (43:27):
Found myself shrinking and shrinking.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
A little bit because the character was so external. So
you felt like, I think my own.

Speaker 4 (43:34):
My own.

Speaker 6 (43:36):
Second guessing of myself, and that what you were talking
about earlier, of like of not just being present and
not just being in this of thinking like, well, what's
going to be next and if this isn't it, you know,
and just getting in my head too much.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
And I think lately I've just sort of been.

Speaker 6 (43:51):
Like m you know, So I think I'm you know,
I think like you know, everything it comes and goes in.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
How many episodes do you guys?

Speaker 8 (43:57):
Do we did twenty three a year was three twenty three?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
No, but how many? How I guess in total? Do
you know how many?

Speaker 8 (44:06):
You eighty five?

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Okay, So I thought it was about that we didn't
hit syndication.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Wait, because you guys went four seasons.

Speaker 5 (44:17):
Well.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
So my reason why I asked that is because.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
It's not technically you what experience that Like I'm shrinking
in the sense the confinement of the role. Sometimes there
is and I'm saying this humbly because I've myself have
been through two hundred and two hundred or two different shows,
and the idea that by by seeing by episode one

(44:42):
hundred you still find the freshness and the character is
something that very few actors and all of us included
in here, have experienced because at some point you have
to flip it. You have to you have to flip
a coin and be like, Okay, I'm gonna go right now.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
I'm like a left. I'm like a left, you know,
and I think the trust yourself and trust yourself.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
But you know what I learned very quickly from those
feelings is like, once you do these long running shows
and you're do an episode episode and the writers are
like hitting ceilings. It really is now your ass on
screen and you now have to do either a backflip
or wear.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
A funny outfit, and you don't want to.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Get to that place, right, But I say that from
like real experience, all right, But I think what I
wanted to give you grace and the fact that like
the maybe there was an ounce of what you're saying
is absolutely right. Like you probably felt like you were
making the short of this. But at some point there's
a level of stamina that has to be reignited.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
And nobody teaches us that.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
You know, you you say, eighty plus episodes of television.
You know, most successful shows right now are doing eight episodes,
ten episode seasons in three to four years is actually success?

Speaker 8 (46:01):
Right?

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah? Right?

Speaker 1 (46:02):
And I mean at work four years five years is
success right. And they won't do full seasons, they won't
do twenty episodes. I'll do sixteen, you'll do thirteen whatever.
So think about the type of stemina you had to
have at that time really carry those those episodes. But
also when they say action and the cameras on a
single for you, what do you have left to give

(46:24):
in that moment, right, and you've got to muster stuff.
But I think the idea is is like what I
what I learned, And I think you're so open and
you're so given, and I think you're very honest with
your process. It's like that collaboration with the writers, like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
You know, I learned very dude, I learned you didn't.

Speaker 8 (46:45):
It starts and end.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
It starts and answer yes, thank you.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
And so the last thing I would say to this
is that I learned this way too late, right that
I felt like I needed to talk.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
To my showrunners.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
I needed to talk to my wrinters and say, what
is my character's theme this season? And that's when I
like life changed for me when I learned that, because
then every year this character was either growing, breaking, you know, changing,
altering this rubbing.

Speaker 6 (47:17):
Yeah, And I love that you're using an ing because
I'll remember something that philipsiny Roffman told me back in
the day when we were doing that play a thousand
years ago. He said exactly that, He said, what what
is your character doing? And I was like, well, I'm
you know, whatever it was I was doing, and he
was like, give me an I g give me an I.

Speaker 4 (47:37):
In word, are you you know? Yes? It was exactly
are you surviving?

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Are you? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (47:42):
Exactly are you begging? Are you you know?

Speaker 6 (47:44):
And it was so and I think of that all
the time and then for you to just I mean,
I have sort of it has slipped my mind. But
it's so wonderful to hear that, because you're right. It
is something that you can go and say, what is
my character's theme?

Speaker 8 (47:59):
What is my joke?

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Is like, what is my character's motivation? Right, that's the joke,
But the truth is, like they are themes.

Speaker 5 (48:05):
Right.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
For example, if you're doing a streaming series, one of
the things that we talk a lot in development at
our company is, you know.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
What is this character's arc?

Speaker 8 (48:15):
Right?

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Where do they end up in the season? And how
do I pitch episode one and two? Where do they
go from there? And like, so what did they learn
by the end of the season that they now have
to use to survive in the next season?

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Right, So it's it's like how do you break them
and build them back up? And whatever?

Speaker 1 (48:30):
But that was like, you know, somebody gave me that
word of advice, and I give it to everybody, and you guys,
don't need to survictors.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
You guys practices in your seasons of this.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
But I learned very quickly that if you're going to
play a character and I think you've heard this part
for me before, if you're going to play a character
that you know in a show that takes eight days
to shoot one episode and it's twelve hours a day
and you're doing twenty episodes a season, you better like

(48:59):
the person and you're gonna hang with Like, if you're
gonna hang with this character as your friend for the
next like twenty episodes, which is almost nine and a
half months, I'm just playing the same guy, you know
for a days in like ten takes a scene or
whatever you got, you better like this character you're building,
you know. But on nancia Is, I learned very quickly

(49:24):
that I needed to create a theme where am I
starting what's your two?

Speaker 2 (49:32):
What's your three?

Speaker 6 (49:33):
I love that because, especially with a procedural, you can
really just get caught up.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
You can just add that, you know, and I'll be honest,
I've been caught in a few episodes where I'm just like,
you know, I'm in front of the screen.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
And I go, all right, well then let's go get him.

Speaker 8 (49:49):
With it, right and but.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Friday, Freddy, do it?

Speaker 8 (49:54):
Do it?

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Freddy? Freddy? Did you look at the figure prints? I did?
And uh, in case he got the prince back, that's.

Speaker 8 (50:07):
What did you say?

Speaker 2 (50:14):
It's your daughter?

Speaker 1 (50:20):
That commercial break like a rock, like a rock brought
to you by State Farm cannot But my point is
like you'll get this thing where it's like, Okay, I've
done this scene a fucking two times, you know.

Speaker 7 (50:37):
I mean, I do feel though that that even if
if your character, you know, like for my character on Hacks,
it surely did not have a character arc like justin
on Ugly Betty right like where it was just he's
he's just he's Deborah's assistant.

Speaker 8 (50:55):
Like there's not He.

Speaker 7 (50:58):
Had some some moments, you know what I mean, but
there was, but.

Speaker 8 (51:04):
There was no kind of like you know real.

Speaker 7 (51:09):
We didn't really we didn't learn his last name until
the end of season four, so you know. So it's
also in that way that I would I would I
would say like like, while that's an incredible I mean,
we all would hope to be able to ask what
we're doing and who we are and what are art.

Speaker 8 (51:32):
It's like sometimes you just gotta fucking like do something.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
With what you're gonna just just just work with what you.

Speaker 10 (51:42):
Just gonna be like all right, so there's no directive,
So I'm just gonna say that joke and wiggle off,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
I've been in plenty of two shots where I know
I'm not getting a single.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
It's just you know, it's just like this ain't my
This ain't my scene. Just say the scene is amazing.
I'm just it ain't about me. But that's good for
you though. It's always about me. Okay.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Well, speaking of fun and finish each other's sandwiches, let's
talk about who cald who to say, Hey, you know
what'll be cool podcast.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
Yeah yeah, that's that's really interesting.

Speaker 8 (52:33):
I wanted to know that neither of us actually.

Speaker 4 (52:36):
Well, well, no, that's not true.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
My arranged marriage.

Speaker 6 (52:40):
My husband is always like aggravated by us because when
we all hang out, like he hangs out at my
house all the time, and and my husband calls us
table for two because my husband's sitting there and the
two of us are just like my husband's like like.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Well, walk he'll like walk away, like he's.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Just like wow, and so everyone, he's.

Speaker 6 (53:08):
So cool, but he's always just like table for two,
you guys just okay, like hello, and so he was
always like, you guys should just have a podcast, and
so we've always been talking about it, but.

Speaker 7 (53:19):
Then but we never went to seek it out. And
then and then Terry Weinberg, who was one of the
producers of Ugly Betty, just straight up called us one
day and was like, hey, like, do you want to
do like a Betty Rewatch podcast?

Speaker 8 (53:36):
And we were you know.

Speaker 7 (53:39):
I guess that the yeah, the angle was just kind
of like also that I have never seen the.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Show perfect.

Speaker 7 (53:46):
The show, yeah, and and uh, and then we started
doing it, and I just feel like one of the
things that I enjoyed the most about doing it, other
than watching the show for the first time and talking
about it with Anna who's seen it four thousand times,
is also just kind.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Of it was like a subliminal attack, just you know, yeah,
it was a little it was.

Speaker 7 (54:06):
A little aggressive and and and you felt it because
it was and and I think that just in the
beginning of the episodes though, like we kind of like
check in with each other and we get to just
kind of shoot the shit a little bit and and
and and you know, we we get to have like
our our it's like every Thursday when we record the pod,

(54:30):
it's like on it comes over before and we.

Speaker 8 (54:32):
Hang out and we have like a little.

Speaker 7 (54:35):
Nach and like just like kick it before and and
it's so it's just it's become this like tradition in
a way that that just.

Speaker 8 (54:43):
Feels it feels so organic.

Speaker 7 (54:45):
Obviously we're such close friends, and I just feel like
it just makes perfect sense.

Speaker 8 (54:51):
That we would be doing it.

Speaker 7 (54:52):
Yeah, it just never really crossed our mind that we
would do it right, because I mean, I feel like
we talk about our experience on the show all the time,
you know, sitting around the kitchen table, but I think
that it was a very different experience to kind of
like put a microphone in front of you. I think
that in the beginning of this, of our first season,

(55:13):
it was just kind of like it's just really different
when like this is just right here.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
But we also are approaching it.

Speaker 6 (55:21):
I think also because like what I was saying Leasena,
I just saw Freddy this, We just saw Freddy this weekend,
and the show was touching on on so many like
it was touching on immigration and healthcare and you know,
queer spaces and you know, and all of that. We
were talking about this twenty years ago, so our pot

(55:41):
also we just kind of talk about it also from
a cultural standpoint of like, you know.

Speaker 4 (55:46):
Like what can stay there?

Speaker 6 (55:48):
Like would Rebecca Remain really be playing a trans character now?

Speaker 4 (55:51):
Like probably not right.

Speaker 6 (55:53):
You know, but but so like it's fun to be
able to sort of talk about all of those things
that are still relevant right right.

Speaker 7 (56:00):
They're talking about you know, Ignacio and immigration and I
mean what now we know as as being ice or
you know, is still all extremely relevant and extremely pertinent.
And I think that the show is just it really

(56:22):
stands the test of time. And I just feel like, well.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
It was also genre banding.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
It was genre altering, and if you really think about it,
like it paid the way for a lot of you know,
high concept comedy. You know, it's that off the wall
where you could you know, I mean, we come from
a generational TV that would allow themselves to do dream
sequences and actually mean them, not like do them in
a cheesy way, like actually this dream sequence has means

(56:50):
something to the show, and they're a part of the DNA,
which I think is the magic of being that free,
to have characters that can be this colorful, and you know,
and to bring credible actors like Freddie Rodriguez on your show.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Yeah, we got so like you.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
We were talking offline about the fact that, like, I
saw a picture of you on the show, and you.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Look like you're nine years old. You know, you look
he looks like you. I know he has Yeah, he's
so hot.

Speaker 5 (57:17):
You know that that that show came at a time
I really needed it, you know, I was.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
I was.

Speaker 5 (57:23):
I just came off a five season of six Feet,
and I did a bunch of gritty films.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
And I was so I was so touched.

Speaker 5 (57:32):
I was so surprised that you all saw me as
like a as a as a romantic comedic counterpart to America,
which is so far from what I was doing at
that time.

Speaker 7 (57:43):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (57:43):
And it's a funny story, man. Actually I turned down
this movie hurt Locker to do every Betty Wow. Yeah,
god damn it.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
I mean, see what you guys did to this guy.
He could have been Knock and the Avengers.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Right now, we are.

Speaker 8 (57:59):
So happy that we had you.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
You could have been however, however, you could have been
in the Avengers No, her Lock at that time was
just some like some like indie film that took place
in Morocco.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Nobody could have ever predicted it was going to do that,
not just carry on so much. I need.

Speaker 5 (58:24):
If I would have done that, it would have taken
me away from my family, and I was I was to.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
No man. I needed, I needed, I needed to do
something one life.

Speaker 8 (58:36):
You wouldn't be sitting here right now, you know.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
No, you know, can I tell you something? Can I
tell you something about Fred?

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Is that you know, Well, he's trying to tell like
a really beautiful, earnest story about why he in his
life felt ugly but it really was the blessing of
his life, and he was making the contrast of like
at that time, that's the last thing he wanted to do.
No matter how successful, access to what he means. I
cannot help but to hold him accountable to his greatness,

(59:09):
because I think he's one of the best fucking actors
I've seen in my generation.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Right, And your shit is gonna live forever.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Bro So when you say things like that, the fact
that your proximity at all these like crazy franchises, yet
you still have incredible franchises that are always going to
be not only quoted, they're gonna be prototypes. They're gonna
be the blueprints. And they have been the blueprints of
a lot of movies that happened to right now. So
when you talk about this thing and you say her Lacker,

(59:38):
it makes it just it brings me joy that you
could have had.

Speaker 4 (59:42):
That Is that the first thing you're hearing.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
No, I've heard the versions of the story before, but
the point is like, it's like the fact that, like,
you know, it's almost cooler that he turned it down.
The cooler that you went to go do ugly truth
is Jeremy Renner really needed it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
You know, it wasn't Jeremy Runner, as we know.

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
At that time, that movie was just like an indie
film that was happening in in Morocco, right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
And and and I.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Remember like talking to some friends that had just shot
Morocco and.

Speaker 5 (01:00:15):
They were like, oh man, it's got food poisoning over there.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
I just got man, I'd been away from the kids.
I was like, no, man, the movie is amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
I'm just gonna go be funny. But had you done
a lot of comedy?

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
I mean, had you know?

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
I did? I did?

Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
I did you know a couple episodes of Scrubs and
that was the extent of it. No, that's why I
was like shocked that you guys saw me as in
romantic comedy. So I was super flattered and it allowed
me to be home and be with my kids and.

Speaker 6 (01:00:55):
Cool, I mean I especially because I mean you're, yeah,
you're iconic, especially like among the bodiquas of it Allso
it's like, yeah, I mean that was so cool.

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
I still was upset that you wan't held his love interest.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
But what, oh my god, you want to kiss now?
Or we can just move this mic figure it out,
but mean my camera, so it's kind of fake.

Speaker 6 (01:01:23):
No, I had to Eddie Sibrill, that's a right, yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:01:29):
And then you had Ralph Macchio, right, oh yeah, and
then and then Adam, but.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
I mean Adam, it is still a got. It was great,
he's great, it's great, but he's too tall. That's what Freddy.
Freddy would have been muscles, and Freddy's doing muscles, not
so I don't. I don't want that magic Mike in
my life.

Speaker 8 (01:01:55):
I don't want magic Mike in my life.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
You know, just all the ones.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
That told me came back and you know, it doesn't
take the Yankee hot hat off.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
You know, it's like you from New York, He's from
New York. He's just like, oh my god, who you
don't want yourself, You don't want the bad boy from
down the block where you grew up. And then the Heights.

Speaker 5 (01:02:20):
You know, well, you know, well there's had a bunch
of great directors come through too, right like Victor Nelly.

Speaker 7 (01:02:27):
Oh yeah, God.

Speaker 8 (01:02:31):
We just had Nelly on the on the podcast, Yeah, on.

Speaker 7 (01:02:34):
The Latest and and it was it was so so
awesome to talk to him about it because even though
we're recapping the first season, whenever we have a guest on,
that's just kind of a full episode, whether it be
a cast member or you know, we had Mark Worthington,
who was our productions design it. Yes, we talk about

(01:02:57):
just kind of the full show, like just just the
entire series. And you know, a really great part of
the episode I think with Victor Nelly that we talked
about was Victor Nelly directed or he did not direct
but was an executive producer.

Speaker 8 (01:03:12):
At this point in the last season.

Speaker 7 (01:03:16):
When we did the kissing episode, like the first gay
kiss on national television between two was minors yeah, it was.
I mean I think that they had done it like
on Dawson's Creek, but they were all like in their like.

Speaker 8 (01:03:34):
Twenty or something.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
I don't believe it or not. Seventy Show had the
first gay kiss. It was Jordan Gordon Levitt and to
for Grace right and was crazy right.

Speaker 7 (01:03:48):
And we were and and it was we were still
like we were I think we were.

Speaker 8 (01:04:00):
Fifteen. And so there's you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
Imagine what that scene would have meant for so many
young people.

Speaker 8 (01:04:07):
It still does, you know, I mean it still does.

Speaker 7 (01:04:10):
And and but I wasn't out fully yet and it
started to become we had a different director, Victor Nelly
wasn't directing it, but he was there on the day
and I and I recall so much like this.

Speaker 8 (01:04:26):
This director wanted to get this shot right.

Speaker 7 (01:04:29):
I understand, and it was a really complicated, you know,
technical shot. Fine, but I mean I think that we
might have done it like sixteen seventeen times. And I
was so uncomfortable, and I remember kind of storming out
and being like I need Victor Nelly right now, and

(01:04:52):
Nelly kind of coming to the rescue and essentially being
like we got it, Like we have to move on
and like and really you know, really advocating for me.
And I think that there's when you get that kind
of when you get that kind of family, when you
get that kind of support system around you when you're

(01:05:14):
on a production, it doesn't matter how long that production
goes on or whatever. When you feel that sense of safety,
it's like you feel invincible. Like it's like I could
do I can throw kind of like shit at the
wall and feel like protected as an artist, you know

(01:05:34):
what I mean. It's not about like, oh I don't
want to do this anymore. It was like I feel
uncomfortable and I knew that there was someone in the
room that had my back.

Speaker 8 (01:05:44):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
And I.

Speaker 8 (01:05:48):
Think that we need so much more of that.

Speaker 7 (01:05:53):
And I think that especially as producers as you know,
like we need so much more of like those safe spaces.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Yeah, it's an exciting time to see that so many
of our community members, multicultural community members are getting behind
the camera so much more because those environments are going
to be not just normalized, they're going to be more
frequently found. And I think that that's, to your points,
a greater minder of continuing to cultivate that we had
the camera like who wants to be a writer, who wants.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
To be a director, who wants to be a producer,
because the.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Artist's job, it's like what the artist job is? You know,
it's sometimes thank it sometimes there's glory, but the truth
is like the spaces for artists are not going to
exist to mimic life if we don't have people behind
the camera like you guys that are continuing to amplify developing,
creating and all that. And you know, we're just so
proud to have you guys here on the show and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
We're so thank you to see you guys. It's like
a beautiful thing for me to see.

Speaker 4 (01:06:55):
It's really cool, like put us on your podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
A part of the same family, so it makes it
makes sense.

Speaker 8 (01:07:02):
Yeah, man, I mean this is this is so much fun.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
And also let's remind everyone that your podcast is under
Michael Tuda. Podcast Family is available everywhere you get your podcasts.
Make sure you go discover. If you love Ugly Bator,
you're gonna love this show. But if you love these
amazing people, you're gonna love it even more. If you
if you like honesty, just tune in and watch this
to do beautiful work. So I'm Wilmer about the rama

(01:07:30):
is Freddie Rodriguez, and this is those amingos.