November 12, 2025 • 57 mins
In this conversation, Justine Siegal shares her journey as a trailblazer in women's baseball, discussing her role as an associate scout for Major League Baseball, her proudest moments as a mother and coach, and the impact of her foundation, Baseball For All. She emphasizes the importance of creating opportunities for young girls in sports, the inception of the Women's Professional Baseball League (WPBL), and the significance of building a supportive community for female athletes. Justine reflects on the challenges and triumphs of establishing a new league, the importance of mentorship, and her hopes for the future of women's baseball.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited, Softball League and Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. Welcome to Dropping Diamonds with Me,
aj Andrews, where we dive head first into the world
(00:22):
of softball and now baseball. Today we are joined by
the first woman to coach a men's professional baseball team.
She's a co founder of Baseball for All and now
also the co founder of the new Women's Baseball League
wp BL. It is the one, it is the only,
(00:42):
it is the barrier breaking woman, Justine Siegel, Thank you
for joining me. Of course, how fun. Well, I'm so
excited to talk about not just your journey, but how
your journey has now been able to carve out so
many new journeys for hundreds thousands of women out there
within the world of baseball. But to start my show,
(01:05):
I like to start with a quote and for us
to build an affirmation, and so a quote that I
thought was very footing for our conversation and for you
was won by Martin Luther King that says, the trailblazers
in human, academic, scientific, and religious freedom have always been
non conformist. When I think of someone that was refusing
(01:28):
to conform to, whether it's societal norms, the norms of
what women can are told can and cannot do within sport,
I definitely think of you, Justine. Is there a affirmation
we can kind of get from that quote?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And I love doctor king Art. That was such a
great quote. I'm so humbled. Yeah, I'm just figging to like,
you know, don't let the naysayers win, you know, just
just just keep going. If you believe you got you
have to go.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Oh you believe it, you have to go. I like that.
I was thinking it's like along the lines of, you know,
like well behaved women rarely make history. Someone has to
be the first. Why not me? I won't bend, I
won't break, I can't conform. That's how history is made.
(02:20):
If you have the thought just go. Are there any quotes,
Justine or I mean to me that sounds like something
that you really lived by? There was something that's in
your in your brain you think you can do it,
Just go for it. Is there something that you maybe
a saying or quote that you've really lived by.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Not so much as saying or quote, just examples, you know,
to me, girls having an opportunity to play baseball is
a social justice issue. So I'm very inspired by social
justice movements and leaders who have gone through it, but
they keep going because they know it's the right thing
to do, even when it's not about them, it's about others.
(02:59):
And so very inspired by that action of giving to
others ahead of yourself.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Do you remember when you first were inspired or the
first maybe social justice leader that sparked that desire in
you to continue to push and have that passion to
make those changes as well those differences.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Oh, well, for me, you know, I studied non violent leaderships,
so you know, I looked at Gandhi and Tikna Han
and doctor King of course, in just how a community
can rise up and build something better. Right, it's not
one person. We have to work together and make something
better for the future that's behind us, right like all
(03:43):
the all the young people that deserve the best, you know,
that's our responsibility.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I think it's so cool because when I think about
people that I'm awe struck by it, it's always it
was always civil rights leaders. I was never and I've
met many celebrities, many athletes, but I'm always like Hey,
what's up. I think it's just something about the courage,
like anyone that distributes a level of courage to your
point to go on despite what may lie ahead, whether
(04:12):
it is imminent danger and or death. They're doing it
for the reason, the cause and the thing that matters
so much to them. To me, that was always what
really empowered me and what really stood out to me
something that if I were to see or meet a
civil rights there, I feel like that's the only individual
I'd be like, Oh my god, that's whomever I know.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I know, I absolutely like you know Desmond too. It
just goes on and on with just phenomenal people. But
it's but it's those who are unnamed who have marched,
who have been the ones who have experienced such discrimination
in so many ways that you know, that power comes
when people come together, when they know that something can
(04:54):
be can be done and against all oughts, you know,
they make it happen. And so that's the kind of
thing that inspires me. And I know that sport can
make that kind of social change, and you know, so
that's sort of what I've dedicated in my life to
using baseball to just help girls know that they're awesome
and to believe in themselves.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And that just that one note. Sometimes we always you
know baseball and softball, the saying it just takes one
and we're always like, it just takes that one play,
that one hit to completely change the game. I think
that that is also very relevant in the factor of humans,
of people. Sometimes it just takes that one person to
inspire us, that one person to uplift us, that one
(05:35):
person to say it is possible, or that one person
to show us that it is possible. And it's so
cool that you embody not just the person that is
saying it, but you're also doing it. And then you're
also now showing that it can be done in multiple
different ways. But it all started. That love for baseball
that you continue to grow and blossom, all started with
(05:57):
your grandfather and going to Cleveland now Guardians, but at
the time Cleveland Indian Games. What do you remember vividly
about those experiences and what made you fall in love
with the game.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I don't just remember being with my grandfather and my
brother eating everything on site right every inning, getting something
else to eat, going back home with my bobble head.
I mean, it wasn't just the baseball as a kid,
it was the whole thing. It was the whole show,
you know, and I loved it. And then the more
I played baseball, of course, when more, I wanted to
be a Cleveland guardian, and so I really dreamt about
(06:30):
being a major league player. And it took me until
my teenage years to realize that wasn't going to happen,
but that love kept going.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
When did you start playing baseball?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I started with T ball, so sudden six, yeah, and
I just kept playing. And you know, I played with
my brother mostly, so it was only one year that
we played against each other. You didn't want to be
on a team with a sister anymore. So I kept
playing it and he ended up quitting. But it was
(07:04):
just a whole It was a whole lot of fun.
Twelve and under was a whole lot of fun. It's
all of it under.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
And then what happened at thirteen, Yeah, Well.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I got a new coach and he told me that
I should quit because girls play softball, and I just like,
it didn't make sense to me, and it has nothing
to do with softball. It was just the matter that
he was deciding what I could do. Because I'm a girl,
and so I decided I would never quit and I
would just keep playing baseball. And it was definitely an
uphill battle because many of the opportunities, as you know,
(07:37):
were in softball, and I just couldn't let them kick
me out because I'm a girl, like not because I
wasn't good enough, just because I'm a girl. I couldn't.
I couldn't do it. And so the more they tried
to take the game away from me, the more I
fell in love.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
The more they tried to take the game away from me,
the more I fell in love. Can you expound upon that?
Because you would think for most people's someone trying to
diminish your dream, someone telling you what you cannot do,
would at times discourage someone or put this veil or
what the game once meant to you into something else.
How did it make you fall in love with it more?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I had to work harder, I had to show and
prove every single time I went on the field, you know,
I had to ask for permission to come on the field.
And it's just something like you just hold on because
if you don't hold on, you're gonna fall off. And
it's that holding that I just ended up wanting it
more and more and more, you know, because the more
(08:34):
time I spent playing it, the more I enjoyed the game.
And it would have been nice it's just been treated
as a player and not just as a girl who
wants to play baseball. That would have been totally different.
But I have to say that that challenge that I had,
that discrimination I faced, definitely shaped how I decided to
build baseball for all so that other girls have a
(08:54):
better pathway to play whichever game they loved playing.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Going back to you being someone that is not going
to conform, and you're going to build your own path.
However it looks when it comes down to not conforming,
and would someone ever say to you, well, why not
just go play softball? What would be your response to that?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I always asked that question over and over. In fact,
my high school tried to force it really by telling
me I couldn't play baseball, But then I ended up
playing baseball against them, and then they let me play
wait house. So I ended up going to my first
high school didn't let me play, and then I went
(09:36):
to a boarding school and I went to like a
camp in Florida during spring break, and I ended up
playing against my old high school. It was crazy. So
when I returned home and asked if I could play
on the team, They're like, yo, you can.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Like four for four with a home run. They're like, okay, fine.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That I pitched them, and so I pitched well and
then and then I had just worked so hard, so
hard to get better and better. You know, I think
it would have been easier to play softball in the
sense that I would have been around girls, I would
have been celebrated for my abilities, I would have had
(10:17):
more friends. So it was definitely like tempting. It's just
something that I couldn't let go of the fact that
that's what they wanted me to do, that they wanted
me to quit baseball, the game I loved, the game
my grandfather loved just because I was a girl. And
I know that kind of sounds crazy, but it's just
(10:38):
the one thing I held onto and I'm glad I
did because it really gave me the fuel to help
build a better future for the girls today who still
loved playing baseball and want a chance to go after it.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Let's take a quick break to hear a word from
our sponsor. Not doing something because I would the holding
on to the thought of I'm not going to play
softball because that's what you wonder if I do. If
(11:15):
I give in, then you guys win and you staying
steadfast and what was your goal in the game that
you love to play. I'm sure it gave so many
other women the confidence to do the same. Did you
ever have doubt when you were doing that? Was there
ever any moments when you thought, Okay, well maybe I
should just go play softball. And when you did, if
you did have those doubts, what was it that said,
(11:38):
you know, it doesn't matter. I'm going to do this
because this is maybe bigger than myself.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
I had doubts a couple of times. It's hard to
have people against you. You maybe just a kid, right,
just trying to fit in a quick baseball for a day.
But the next you know, once I kind of cooled
a little bit, I was back on the field the
next day.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Made quit. I did oh. I had a coach.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Who was who who does something mean to me? And
I was just like, I can't win. This is I
can't win. And I just walked walked away. But I
was back the next day and I did play softball
for like a week in college, I went to play
baseball at D three school, and unfortunately they didn't let
(12:32):
me play, or you know, they said they ran out
of uniforms. So I decided I would try softball, and
it was nice to be around the other women, but
it just wasn't my game. You know. First of all,
I was a picture. I was a pitcher, and that's
just not transferable at all. So I went to spring training,
(12:53):
and then I came back and just decided to pursue
other other options. And I played in men's leagues in
the summer and so on.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Did the guys on the team support you.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Some and some not. It just is what it is,
you know, when you're a pioneer. And I didn't mean
to be a pioneer. I didn't mean to be the first.
And everything I did, it just happened because because it
hadn't been done before. Right, You pursue your passions, you go,
whether the pathways there or whether you're the one creating it.
So I just wanted to play baseball, and that's I
(13:25):
did it to the best of my ability. And now
there's more girls and women who can do it through
the Women's Professional Baseball League and through baseball for all
and frankly in youth leagues all around the country, it's
much fighter. Girls are being told they have a chance
to choose, and some girls play both softball and baseball,
and you know they're just having a good time.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
But the fact is you don't have to conform. You
can now you can do both one or the other, softball, baseball,
whatever really draws you. And at age sixteen, throughout your
path your love for baseball, you decide that you wanted
to coach, and you wanted to coach at the collegiate level.
When you formed that dream, what was like the first
(14:10):
spark and said, Okay, this is this is a school
that's got it for me, this is where I want
to go. What did that look like when that dream
came about.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It's when I realized I was going to play in
the major leagues. I know that's a long time to
live that dream, but I decided I wanted to coach.
I'd coach at the college level, which no woman had
done before. But I just thought that's what I'll what
I'll do. Like that didn't occur to me, and I
was a really, really shy kid. So the first person
(14:37):
he decided to tell my dream too. Was one of
the coaches at the camp I was at that I like,
you know, worshiped he was. He was like my coach.
I loved him, hung on every word. But when I
told him I wanted to coach, he laughed at me
and he said, no man would listen to a woman
on a baseball field. And I was really embarrassed. It's
(14:57):
really embarrassed. And then I just started thinking, who's he
to decide what I'm gonna do? And I, just as
a teenager, started learning everything I could about coaching. Right,
So if I'm a pitcher in third baseman, now I'm
going to learn how to play off field like you?
Nothing like you, but at least I could learn something
about the outfield so I could teach someone else how
to play off field. And so I just started my
(15:20):
pathway on how could I become a coach and pursued it.
And while I was getting my PhD, I became a
college baseball coach as an assistant at Springfield College. And
I can tell you that while they were surprised to
have a woman coach, they didn't really care as long
as once I showed them I could make them better players.
(15:41):
Once I showed them that I cared about them and
I could help the team win, that was all they
needed to know period.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I think it's so interesting too when we talk about
the individuals that have comments to say about women in
men's games, whether it be baseball, basketball, football, it's only
the ones that are not in the mix that have
things to say. It's like everyone that's a part of
this inner circle once they understanid oh you know ball,
(16:11):
then the respect is always mutual at that point. But
that's with anybody, right, I mean, you don't want to
listen to whether it's another man another woman with what
sport you are. Once someone shows you that they know
the game, it's like, okay, I'm all ears. And when
you were telling them and showing them and teaching them
the ropes and helping getting them better, what was what
was your philosophy your coaching philosophy.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Oh, coaching the men. My coaching philosophy was very like socratic,
like how can I get them to come up with
the idea of the answer where I want to get
them to right? So if they need to like if
they need to get their stride further, how can I
get them to realize they need to go have their
(16:54):
stride further, stride longer, in their in their pitching release.
It's easier for me to change I think if it's
their idea, So if I can get what I want
across as their idea, then they make the change quicker.
You know, you can't always do that, but you can
often be like, oh yeah, that was like you know,
(17:15):
like that was a really great pitch, like I could
see or if you're hitting right all that head position,
I loved it. Right. You just you just tell them
what they did in a positive way and then they
start creeping towards where you want them to go. And
that was kind of my philosophy working with men. Make
it their idea and they're in it. Worked pretty well.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Gosh. It's so it's basically like everyday life when you
coach men, same thing. You just have to make them
to get them to the finish line. You have to
make them think that they're the ones that set up.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
The race, like okay, yeah, yeah, I mean because you're
as the trust builds and as you know, you're just
in it. Obviously you can you can change that and
just give them direction, right, But but it is It
is one way to get people, get men to where
they're going. Yeah, a lot of men.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
They can run a race they don't realize as a race,
and they can get theer's like, thank you, Yes, you
did it. You did this. I set up the lines
for it, I carved out the finish fine thing. But
you you made this happen.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Thank you. I love those guys that I coached.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, they were great, they were great. You being a
coach at the collegiate level, it's only I mean, it's
so cool how your your journey has so many this
like these tickers, like you can document each moment to
where you just continue to elevate and change history at
one level to the next level, to the next level,
(18:44):
to the next. It WOB lifted its ban of women
participating in Major League teams or their affiliates in nineteen
ninety two, and in two thousand and nine, you became
the first woman of a coach to coach a men's
professional baseball team, and it is the Rock Rocks. What
were those first days like, as you step in making history.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, so that was Indie Ball two thousand and nine,
and I was coaching collegiately, so you know, and I
was working on a PhD in sports psyche. So in
my mind, you know, I was qualified. Yes I was
the first woman, but I was qualified to be there.
It's amazing to get to wear uniform as your job.
(19:29):
It's to have your baseball card, have a child ask
were you sign it? Just you know, I mean, it
doesn't really get better than those things. But it was
very difficult, and some people didn't want me to be there.
Some people were fine, and others didn't want me to
be there. And I had to really control my own
(19:55):
emotions and know that, you know, like Jackie Robbins and
you know, being inspired by his actions, I can't control
what how other people treat me. I can only control
how I'm gonna act. So I decided to be kind.
I decided to almost the worse it got, the more
(20:18):
I would do in kindness. And so I knew that
if I reacted with emotion, if I if I fought
back in a way, that the girls behind me would
have more difficulty getting a chance for their turn right.
If I was able to see, if they were able
(20:39):
to say, see, women, they can't handle it. They too emotional.
It's too rough here, it's too much swearing they can't
handle it, you know, like it's just a little teasing
or whatever. You know, all of that's just an excuse
for someone else not to get a chance. So I really,
as much as I love baseball, as much as I
love coaching and helping athletes, I also knew I respect
(21:00):
onsibility for those who also dropped the coaching professional baseball.
And so after I ended up with the Rock and Rocks,
I feel on MLBBP. And then in twenty fifteen I
did the Oakland Age for their Instructional League and that
(21:21):
was tremendous and a dream come true.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Really, it's so interesting when you are the first you
have to think about not just what your impact is,
but how your impact is going to then influence the
impact of those that come behind you. And the way
in which you had to navigate everything and you couldn't
(21:47):
react the way maybe you wanted to react, or you
had to suppress maybe some of the things that you
wanted to say with the thought in mind of I
want to make this better. There wasn't any moment when
you just any of these people saying crazy stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I have never really lost my cool to those people.
It just wasn't possible, right, Yeah. I also had my
daughter with me. I had my daughter in college. So
with everything I've done, she's right there. And that's such
a gift to be able to go from an environment
(22:28):
that's hostile and then just to walk away and just
have absolute love and then you know, to have that
break and the motivation of knowing what can come for
others in the future. If it was just about me,
I would have quit. Really it was just about me. Yeah,
(22:51):
I mean I got a PhD, could have just gone
on got a corporate job, or I could have been
a college professor, which would have been really easy and lovable,
and you know, like who doesn't want to be a
college professor. But I knew it was bigger. I knew
it was bigger. So as much as I loved baseball,
and I mean, I can't stress that enough. Like I
did the path because I wanted to do the path
(23:12):
because I love helping athletes be better. But at the
same time, I just knew the responsibility around me and
I took it very seriously.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Did you ever feel a lot of pressure or was
it pressure that you welcomed like you enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I didn't feel the pressure. I just felt the responsibility.
I mean, to me, it's different for me. Pressure is
you know, basis loaded with two basis loaded, and you
gotta throw a strike, sir, you gotta get someone out
or you gotta get a ground ball with this. It
was just a matter of response, being responsible, and knowing
that when something is bigger than yourself, it's much easier
(23:54):
path to walk through if it's just about me, If
it's just about ourselves, then I feel like our tolerance
is less than when we know we can do better
for others.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
What it was the maybe the meanest thing someone said
to you that you really had to overcome and look past,
or if there's something that maybe sticks with you today
that someone said that really that you are a reason
why I'm keeping going because I don't want you. It's
I wanted to be embarrassing you ever other those words
(24:26):
to another woman.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I mean, there've been so many examples of feeling unwelcomed, Yeah,
but there's also great examples of where you know when
it's it's been great and someone you know, when I
was finally kicked out of the locker room with the
Brockton Rocks and when the manager stopped talking to me
I'd been removed from first base. They were just expecting
me to really quit to never crossed my mind, you know.
(24:53):
I staged my own protests, and I sat outside of
the locker room right as the game ended, and the
team had to walk past me and know that I
was there. And a few minutes later, one of the
players came out and sat and had his dinner next
to me. Oh wow, and that gesture, like, I have
(25:13):
no idea what we talked about. All I know is
he left the safety of his locker room to just
come be with me and say, yeah, I see you.
And then he went back in and another player did
the same thing. And I think when you lead with authenticity,
and when those players knew that I cared and then
I had, I had done all I could. I earned
(25:36):
their respect. You know, just sometimes the world's not ready
for you. And what's fantastic now is that major like
baseball is a pipeline for diversity, for women to actually
get a chance to coach at the pro level. And
there's over a dozen women coaching at the pro level now,
and in some way that's what it's about. You know,
(25:57):
It's bittersweet that it wasn't me get the full time
coaching job like that. I didn't get to live that life.
But it's also very meaningful to know that others get
to that it worked to some degree. You know, I.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Absolutely did work. I mean you, The A's hired you
in twenty fifteen, marking you the first, making the first
time an MLB team employed a female coach, and then
since then there have been over forty women who have
coached MLB or MLB affiliate teams. And the impact that
(26:32):
you made the first, being the first person to start
the trade, and then so many women getting to jump
on and keep going down that path. What does that
mean to you to know that you have been a
trailblazer and now while the hardships that you've faced as
the first are now something that you did make it
a lot easier for the forty plus women in baseball today.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh it's it's humbling and it's healing. Well, you know
what I mean For me? Honestly, I only coached four
days with the four days, ten ten days with the A's.
I know that sounds crazy, but I asked Billy Bean
for four years. For four years, I asked him, you know,
it was like, Hey, I'm an associate scout for Major
(27:18):
League Baseball. Can I coach? You know? The next year, Hey,
I have a PhD? Can I come coach? Hey? You know,
like just every year becoming better and better and better
beyond what was expected of other male coaches. And finally
for the fourth year to get the yes. It took
a whole lifetime to get those ten days. And in
(27:39):
those ten days and in that news, major League Baseball realized, hey,
we can get other women. And then the next one
was Roonica Alvarez, and then Alyssa Knakin with the Giants,
and then and it just kept growing. So just to
kind of open the window a bit for people to
see what's possible, it's meaningful. And I'm just so glad
(28:05):
these kids I see now today that are fifteen and
they know that it's, you know, as possible that they
have a path. I mean, what else is life about
if you're not building brothers that.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
You don't only just build for women in the States
to coach, and you also coach internationally, including Israel national team, Japan, Mexico.
We met up in Dubai, So you have been all
over the world literally making your impact and stamping your
(28:38):
mark on the world of baseball. What would you say
is probably your proudest moment throughout your journey so far.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Oh, my proudest thing is that my daughter calls me
for no reason that's nothing to do with baseball. My
proudest thing is that I have somewhat somehow succeeded as
a mother and my daughter likes me at twenty seven
years old. But baseball baseball wise, it's you know, uh,
if you went to tryouts for the Professional Baseball League
(29:08):
and we had, you know, six hundred people sign up
for these tryouts, and I've got an adult women coming
up to me because do you remember me? You coached
me when I was twelve. You know, that's pretty cool,
you know because I know that when they were twelve,
it was all just starting and we were just getting
girls baseball, you know, throughout the US. So I think
(29:32):
that that's very rewarding for me to see. And then
with the WPB on knowing that with a professional league,
girls can now look up and say, hey, that's possibility.
They can see those world models, just like with the AUSL. Right,
I mean, that's fantastic. These these girls will know that
they can play softball at the professional level they can
be you. I mean, you're amazing, and that's well, it's
(29:56):
just the truth. And you know, now girls are seeing
that they have choices and that they have a future,
and I love that.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
So many choices. I think that that's one of the
best things that can come from the growth of women's sports.
Oftentimes there weren't a professional league for so many women,
or you had to go play overseas, or you kind
of had to accept the fact that your life in
the sport you've played your entire life will come to
(30:27):
an end potentially after college because there just isn't a
pro league for you anywhere. And now there's so many
girls that are able to continue on. So there's more
to cover, But first, let's take a quick break. When
(30:49):
I did my master's thesis, I went to a field
and I asked of twelve young boys where they wanted
to be when they grew up, and they all said
baseball players, baseball coaches. And then I asked twelve young
girls same thing, and they all said teacher. Doctor. Only
one little girl said, I want to play professional softball,
(31:10):
but I'm not sure if it's possible. And I bet
today if I were to go and do that same
that was back in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. If I bet,
if I were to go back to that same ballpark
and ask twelve young girls and twelve young boys the
same question, it would be completely different answers. We'd have
some girls to say, I'm want to be professional baseball player.
(31:30):
I'm going to be professional softball player. So the boys
will still have all the same responses, but the girls,
I'm hoping that they would all have it would be
a lot more that think they can go out and
play professionally. And with you building your foundation, Baseball for All,
that was your ultimate goal to let these young girls
know that they can go on and they do have
(31:51):
a space to play the game that they love. Really,
what was the biggest maybe impact that you've seen Baseball
for All have on the young girls have gone through
your tournaments.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
There's two streams to that. One is that Major League
Baseball now supports girls and women playing baseball. There's now
girls they run girls baseball programming, which is something they
did after our national tournaments. So just again just showing that,
like you know, Monday Davis being on the stage and
then you know, seeing girls baseball through Baseball for All
(32:25):
was very meaningful in that they're now programming across the
country for girls to play.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
The second is.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I love I love love that our girls who are
players come back as coaches, and so I love the
full circle that these girls, you know, we tell them
that they're never too young to lead, They're never too
young to make a difference. And so we have fifteen
year olds coaching eleven year olds, and we have you know,
graduates from our program coming back after playing for you know,
(32:57):
Team USA and just coaching and give clinics because they
want to get back. And I love that community.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I love seeing that Baseball for All has truly become.
Of course it's your foundation, but it feels like it
is a national movement at this point. It feels like
it is something that is continuing to like touch everybody
that's affiliated associated within baseball and to know that this
is you can play. You don't have to choose to
(33:23):
your point, you don't have to choose to go play softball.
You don't have to play baseball your whole life and
then college comes and now you don't know what to do.
You can go on to play baseball in college. Now
we can go on and play baseball professionally as well
with the WPBL. Oh you starting and co founding the WPBL.
(33:44):
Run me through the inception of the idea and knowing
that this is going to be this is what I
want to do, and this is going to be another
game changer, game changing league for women's sports.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, and for sure, you know I need to mention
all of the women athletes before this league, who have
you know, walk backwards uphill to get women's pro sports going.
And we are certainly writing on the on the wave
of women's soccer, women's basketball, and and and everything built
before us. Uh. But it was my co founder, Keith
(34:18):
Stein called me up and said would you do this?
You know, he did research and who should I contact?
And thankfully my name came up first in Google. So,
uh when you asked me, I said yes, and and
I'm really thrilled with what we're accomplishing. We partnered with
Freemantle Media, so you know, I know that everything is
(34:40):
going to be top notch as well. You're gonna get
to see our broadcasting. You get to come out to
a game and grab a hot dog and your favorite
drink on a summer evening and just watch great play
and and I absolutely love it. Uh that we're here, right,
we'll launch this summer. And sometimes you lose obviously lose
(35:00):
the words for the gratitude for the moment, you know,
and it's just going to be really fantastic, and it's
gonna you know, it's America's pastime is going to come
to everyone. And now girls know it's not just that
they get to know that they choose baseball or softball,
or they're not choosing baseball or softball. It's that they
(35:21):
know that that they can do what their brothers do,
that they have the opportunity to pursue what they love.
And I truly believe that when you pursue what your dreams,
good things happen. And so now now that pathway is
there for them.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Pursue your dreams, good things happen. Leagues begin to can
be started. I mean, off, we talked about women and
the new leagues that are going to be starting or
expanding in twenty twenty six, and that's unrivaled a USL,
the new volleyball league that's going to be coming out.
There's in twenty twenty six. There's so many women's sports
(35:58):
are just continuing to grow. I always say it's not
a trend, it's a movement. And now adding women's baseball
launching in twenty twenty six year have four teams, Boston,
New York, LA, and San Francisco. Why why did you
choose those cities?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Oh? Because they're the great cities, right, They've got great
sports history and a ton of fans and also a
history of supporting women's sports. So we will be at
a neutral site this year, which we'll be announcing in
a couple of weeks, and then and twenty seven looking
(36:36):
to be in those spots.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Oh, that's gonna be so exciting. And I imagine that.
I mean, is it going to be Is it gonna
be completely independent of MLB or is there going to
be some some type of partnership? Do you think?
Speaker 2 (36:50):
We're open to working with Major League Baseball? But we're
not waiting for them. And we appreciate the support we
got from the Wash to Nationals where we had our tryouts.
MLB dot com it has been covering us, so we're
very grateful and just moving forward building the platform where
(37:10):
we're going.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
How do you operate? You said there's six hundred women
that came out to the tryout and when you go
into the next couple of years as far as the
draft goes, how is the draft set up?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, our draft is November twenty. It's going to be
online with some special surprises. So follow our socials to
get all the information. And so we have one hundred
we have like a top one hundred list. We're four teams,
but certainly we're going to expand, right, so that's even
more exciting. There's going to be more spots, more jobs,
and not just on the field, but also off the
(37:48):
field coaches, GM's announcers, So we're building ecosystem of jobs
for women in baseball. So we'll have our draft and
you know you're you We already big names. Money Davis,
Kelsey Witt Moore are just two big names. So we
(38:11):
have players from all around the world. We had ten
countries represented at tryouts.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
So it's it's very exciting.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You know, baseball has always been a global game, and
our league's going to reflect on.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
How are you getting the data to know who is
you want to draft? Is it coming from baseball for
all tournaments? Is it becoming from like MLB Trailblazers. How
are you notified and knowing that this is this is
a talent we want to have on our team.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
It helps to have national teams, right, we have Team USA.
So it's so in theory we've identified the top twenty
players or the top forty players, right, because sometimes you
don't make a national team for you know, some various reasons.
If there's three lefties that year, you know, it could
be it could be any kind of thing. So you know,
you know who the top forty players are. And we
know there's twenty five countries with national teams, so we
(39:04):
know who are generally top Canadian teams. But we did scouting,
We held our tryouts, we allow people to show videos,
send us videos, and we attended the national Championships in
Canada as well as an event here in the US
with some of the best national players. So we feel
we really got to see many of the best players
(39:26):
and identified them. And I think the best part is
going in the future is going to be what countries
is next? Right, We're we're going to find the next GENO.
Is it going to be in Uganda? It could very
well be, right, They're growing baseball opportunities there, so always
what's next is always a fun idea.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
So are we gonna like expand and have a team,
you know, the Toronto, we'll have a team maybe in
I don't know, Uganda, Dubai. We'll just have take up.
We'll take three, you know, three travel days instead of
one go over.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yeah, we're just going to team up and we're just
going to do race fall softball around the world. Oh
but only in business class exactly. I don't know if
I can buy again back in economy. But it's a
real privilege to be in the game right now. This
is a big moment and a big pivoting point. And
uh and just grateful to be have a hand in it.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
You talked about, of course the girls and women being
able to play with men, continuing to play the sport
that they love is amazing. But your quote is saying
there's just something special about girls playing with other girls,
And you said how women's baseball. One they're no longer
the girl on the team, they're just ballplayers. And two
(40:46):
there's a lot of camaraderie. And three there's a pipeline
that can be created. And that's one thing that the
WPBL provides. An end to that pipeline. When you think
about what the pipeline looks like, how would you.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Describe, Well, the pipeline currently beyond the international movement is
in the US. Is the girls playing with the boys
or Olivia Pachario playing D one baseball with men. But
like softball where you get to play with other girls,
like soccer where you get to play for other girls,
that would be My goal is to see girls baseball
(41:24):
as a regular opportunity to play in. So I'm very
supportive of co ed baseball, but I know more opportunities
will come if we create girls leagues around the country.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Creating girls leagues around the country and the Women's Pro
Baseball League, you're building it from scratch. You are building
it from scratch. You are creating something that's ever been created,
and there's really no handbook. There's guidelines because there are
many leagues have been built from scratch, but there's no
handbook to doing something for the very first time. Is
there a model or a league that you're following. What
(41:58):
what's really been a big help in growing and expanding
this league.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
I think all of it. It's not one, it's all
of it. How do we learn from others. How do
we see what went well or what could have gone better.
If we're not studying all of it, then then we're
missing we're missing a part, and just a lot of
gratitude towards those who have been willing to share.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
That's gonna be my next question. Who's like really been
able to help you out with it?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
You know, getting tidbits of information from women and men
from leagues all around the country, whether it's I mean,
you know all of the major leagues, I've talked to
someone from from there who have just given bits of
information like this really worked for us, or something I
wouldn't have thought about, like get your data set on
the first day, right know what data you're collecting, because
(42:53):
it's historical and you're starting it and you want it
to be right from the beginning. Like yeah, yeah, of
course we did. But you know, there's a hundred things
to think about. But this is a really great point.
Thank you so much for telling me and reminding me
that we have to make We were setting the foundation
of data, you know, for what one hundred years, So
(43:14):
just things like that, The amount of people that have
come fans just saying I can't wait, I can't wait.
And that's not just women, that's men too, and that's girls,
and that's you know, that's my nephew wearing our hat. Right,
it's just the can't wait for the league to jump,
and neither can I.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
You know what I'm thinking about too, is in twenty
twenty seven, when MLB has the inevitable lockout. Depending on
how long that goes and what that looks like, this
may be a real deal league of their own where
we are watching women's baseball only when it comes to baseball.
(43:55):
When you think about the impact worldwide that this league
is I believe going to have from the from the beginning,
how do you feel, what's like the first feeling that
sparks in you?
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Well, now we'll have the real players play, right. Yeah,
now you'll get thirty million for being the best outfield
in the right league.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
One can dream.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I I you know, I love Major League Baseball, you know,
but there's enough room for all of us.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
I love that there is enough room for all of us.
And from we talked about the inception of the league,
you also have advisors that have been a part of
creating something from scratch as well. Maybel Blair is an
advisor to your league. Who's someone who's played in the
nineteen forty eight for the All American Girls Professional Baseball League.
(44:49):
And for those that don't know, that was made famous
for being the inspiration for the movie that we all
love to know a league of their own. What of
conversations with Maybell been like and what has she been advising?
Speaker 2 (45:05):
She's she's wonderful. The all of the All Americans are
so supportive, and you know, you can join the association.
Go to their website support the All Americans. They're still
coming out signing autographs. Those who are left, they're all
in their nineties. But Maybell called me the other day
just to say, hey, are you taking care of yourself?
(45:26):
You know, don't get burned out, you know, make sure
you eat well and get some sleep. Right, you know,
she's ninety seven calling to check in on me. I mean,
I'm gonna save that voicemail. First voicemailed, then I called her,
so I'm one voice fail say forever. And then of
course my heart's full just talking with her. So it's
it's really beautiful. And actually this year in Rockford, Illinois,
(45:50):
we have the World Cup Qualifier happening, which will include
Team you say, Team Canada. And then we have Baseball
for All National Tournament happening at the same time, and
the All American Girls Professional Baseball League Reunion. So in
this one city, in this one week, we're going to
freak to four generations playing baseball. And that it's like,
(46:16):
just wow, what am I supposed to say?
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Just wow?
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Wow, We're going to go to ninety seven to age six.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
I love it?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
How does it? How does it get better?
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Toby Lily moment, people were like, I see my future. No, literally,
this is it's right here, right in front of you.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
And you're ninety seventy, and they get to see the future.
So so the girls get to look up and the
older ones get to to see that they're going to
be moving on, knowing that things are in good hands,
that the sport they loved is now available to everyone.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
I think it's a cool look at it. It is
like the younger ones get to look they look up
or they look forward, and they see such a beautifully
paved road, and the all Americans can look back and
see how that road being paved right like it's you
look back, you see how much better it's gotten because
(47:18):
of the dirt that they had to trek from the beginning,
and then the young kids get to look forward and
see nothing but a pretty paved road. May's gonna have
maybe a couple dips in it every now and then,
they still got to work through, but still no longer
a dirt road, which is.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Really cool, absolutely super it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
You have one or received numerous honors from Baseball Hall
of Fame to IOC nomination from your journey and the
road that you've paved in the game of baseball, what recognition, honor,
or maybe even just compliment has really meant them to you?
Speaker 2 (48:00):
And why?
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Well, when I.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Saw my jersey in the National Baseball Hall of Fame
in Cooper's count I mean my stomach literally jumped, you know,
to be just a shy girl from Cleveland, who never
who never gave up, is it's something, you know, every
word I'd have is just in a closet, you know,
I don't. I don't have the one display or anything
(48:23):
like that. It's it's it's a movement. As you're saying,
it's a movement, We're not there, you know, we're not
at the destination. We're still we're still moving and we
can only build together. It's just not one person. We
can only build together. And so I'm just very grateful
to the community who's really you know, even I understand that,
(48:46):
you know, my work has sparked the movement, but it
couldn't be done without everybody. It would just be an
idea lost in a room without the passion and drive
of everyone else who made it happen.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Thanks for staking us from first to second base will
be routing third after the breaks. What do you hope
that the young girls when you go and you get
to see from ninety seven to six, so the young
(49:21):
girls to the young women too, are more mature women
get to what do you feel or what do you
hope they will take away from your story in the
full circle moment of wp BL Because while you didn't
become a Cleveland Guardian, you're still have such a hand
(49:43):
in young women that play baseball having the dream to
say they can go and play pro.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
It's multifaceted, right, It's I want them to know that
they're perfect as they are. They're for everyone who's told
them that they're not supposed to go play baseball, right,
which is just a symbol. It's a same thing you
say women shouldn't be scientists, women shouldn't you know, have mortgages,
you know, they women shouldn't ride bikes. I mean, it
just goes back far and far of all the historically
(50:10):
things that they've said roles and women shouldn't do. And
I think that that perspective is important, you know, but
one day I just want them to not know it
wasn't an option, you know that that they just kind
of get spoiled a little bit like their brothers and
they just play. That's it, no more fighting, just playing.
(50:32):
I'd love to see that, just play.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
And what that Just go play, just go from the
very first thing you said when we were talking about
the quotes, he said, if it's something that you are
passionate about or something that you love, just go. I
think those were your words, and so being able to
now be able to just go. Well, now we're gonna
go into my favorite segment, which is the no fly
(50:56):
zone segment, and I want to know your days on
the mound blowing pitches by men and women alike on
a baseball field. What's your favorite play that you've made
in your career.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
My favorite play was the whole game when I pitched
against my old high school whouln't let me play? I
read like, what a moment, What a moment to pitch
successfully against them. I think that's I'm gonna take the
whole inning, if that's okay with you.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Heck yeah, any strikeouts.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
I think no one got out, got the ball out
of the infield period.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
I wish you would have did did you like a
little celebration in their face or anything?
Speaker 2 (51:40):
She just started a brawl. Oh I should have shouted
him brall. Why did I think of that? No, I
was just I was just happy. It's just a moment
where I was. You know, you're just content, You're happy,
you did it, You did what you loved, and you
got to prove them wrong. All in the same moment.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Not only did you prove them wrong, but you had
to yourself right of the things that you're capable of doing.
And for all other baseball players wanted to go out
and prove themselves right. What do you think is the
key to being an elite baseball player?
Speaker 2 (52:11):
I mean everyone's going to tell you practice and learning
and everything, but I would say, be kind to yourself
through the process. You know, speak well to yourself. And
if you do that, then your mind and your body
can open up to its full potential.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
What do you think is the key to being an
elite baseball player as a woman that's on a team
with individuals that don't believe she should be on that team.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
I think determination and in belief not just in themselves,
but that what they're doing is right. You know, knowing
that they're that standing there, there's there's someone watching, and
you're changing their mind. You know you're creating the light
(53:02):
bulb and know that you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
What would you say in all of being able to
realize that you're creating your own light bulb or creating
a light bulb in someone else's mind, we've had to
go through as baseball players, softball players, athletes experience failure
before we experience success. What would you say is your
favorite failure that you've had that has ultimately led you
(53:29):
to some of your biggest or best successes.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
That's a really great question.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I will say that I was a hothead.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Had a really hard time failing, you know, thinking wearing
that Oh I got to show them that girls can
do it.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
That passion channels correctly has helped me become the person
I am right. So there's a choicehere. We can let
that kind of burn us, that pressure, or we can
take that pressure and let it expand us and see
what we're capable.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Of channel that passion. It's a fuel. We'll propel you
forward the best ways.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Propebably folder expand you in ways you didn't know you
could go.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Yeah, well, when we talk about expanding in ways that
no one knows you could go, or beyond what expectations are,
what are your hopes for w for the women's baseball
league that's coming.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
My hope is obviously filled seats, filled stadium, come out,
have a great time. I'm so confident that if you
come to a game, you watch on broadcasting, follow us
on social media, that you're going to fall in love
with these women and their stories and the passion and
ability to play this great game.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Well, I am excited because back from our affirmation, well
behave women rarely make history. Someone has to be the first.
Why not me? These women out there will not bend,
they will not break, they will not conform because I say,
only my history is made. Jesseine, thank you for striking
(55:18):
the match, for leading the way, and I am so
excited to be at the first game of the WPPL
and to see history be made and to be able
to witness all the amazing women that I had a
hand in it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
We'll see you there yay.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
Well, thank you guys all for listening. Justine, thank you
again for coming on and dropping your diamonds. Please remember,
if you have a passion for it, like Justine says,
if a passion for it is something you want to do,
just go Remember you can't make history if you conform.
A's just not how history is made. Don't conform. Go
(55:59):
after what you want and stay steadfast towards your goals.
Thank you so much for listening today's episode. Let's continue
this conversation on Instagram at Dropping Diamonds pod and remember,
well behaved women rarely make a story. Just go, see
you guys next week back at the diamond Bye for now.
(56:24):
Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball Link and Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. I'm your host AJ Andrews. Our
executive producer is Jesse Katz. Tari Harrison is our supervising producer,
and this episode was mixed and mastered by Mary Doo.
Listen to Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews on the iHeartRadio app,
(56:47):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, m
Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited, Softball League and Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. Welcome to Dropping Diamonds with Me,
aj Andrews, where we dive head first into the world
(00:22):
of softball and now baseball. Today we are joined by
the first woman to coach a men's professional baseball team.
She's a co founder of Baseball for All and now
also the co founder of the new Women's Baseball League
wp BL. It is the one, it is the only,
(00:42):
it is the barrier breaking woman, Justine Siegel, Thank you
for joining me. Of course, how fun. Well, I'm so
excited to talk about not just your journey, but how
your journey has now been able to carve out so
many new journeys for hundreds thousands of women out there
within the world of baseball. But to start my show,
(01:05):
I like to start with a quote and for us
to build an affirmation, and so a quote that I
thought was very footing for our conversation and for you
was won by Martin Luther King that says, the trailblazers
in human, academic, scientific, and religious freedom have always been
non conformist. When I think of someone that was refusing
(01:28):
to conform to, whether it's societal norms, the norms of
what women can are told can and cannot do within sport,
I definitely think of you, Justine. Is there a affirmation
we can kind of get from that quote?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And I love doctor king Art. That was such a
great quote. I'm so humbled. Yeah, I'm just figging to like,
you know, don't let the naysayers win, you know, just
just just keep going. If you believe you got you
have to go.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Oh you believe it, you have to go. I like that.
I was thinking it's like along the lines of, you know,
like well behaved women rarely make history. Someone has to
be the first. Why not me? I won't bend, I
won't break, I can't conform. That's how history is made.
(02:20):
If you have the thought just go. Are there any quotes,
Justine or I mean to me that sounds like something
that you really lived by? There was something that's in
your in your brain you think you can do it,
Just go for it. Is there something that you maybe
a saying or quote that you've really lived by.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Not so much as saying or quote, just examples, you know,
to me, girls having an opportunity to play baseball is
a social justice issue. So I'm very inspired by social
justice movements and leaders who have gone through it, but
they keep going because they know it's the right thing
to do, even when it's not about them, it's about others.
(02:59):
And so very inspired by that action of giving to
others ahead of yourself.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Do you remember when you first were inspired or the
first maybe social justice leader that sparked that desire in
you to continue to push and have that passion to
make those changes as well those differences.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Oh, well, for me, you know, I studied non violent leaderships,
so you know, I looked at Gandhi and Tikna Han
and doctor King of course, in just how a community
can rise up and build something better. Right, it's not
one person. We have to work together and make something
better for the future that's behind us, right like all
(03:43):
the all the young people that deserve the best, you know,
that's our responsibility.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I think it's so cool because when I think about
people that I'm awe struck by it, it's always it
was always civil rights leaders. I was never and I've
met many celebrities, many athletes, but I'm always like Hey,
what's up. I think it's just something about the courage,
like anyone that distributes a level of courage to your
point to go on despite what may lie ahead, whether
(04:12):
it is imminent danger and or death. They're doing it
for the reason, the cause and the thing that matters
so much to them. To me, that was always what
really empowered me and what really stood out to me
something that if I were to see or meet a
civil rights there, I feel like that's the only individual
I'd be like, Oh my god, that's whomever I know.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I know, I absolutely like you know Desmond too. It
just goes on and on with just phenomenal people. But
it's but it's those who are unnamed who have marched,
who have been the ones who have experienced such discrimination
in so many ways that you know, that power comes
when people come together, when they know that something can
(04:54):
be can be done and against all oughts, you know,
they make it happen. And so that's the kind of
thing that inspires me. And I know that sport can
make that kind of social change, and you know, so
that's sort of what I've dedicated in my life to
using baseball to just help girls know that they're awesome
and to believe in themselves.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And that just that one note. Sometimes we always you
know baseball and softball, the saying it just takes one
and we're always like, it just takes that one play,
that one hit to completely change the game. I think
that that is also very relevant in the factor of humans,
of people. Sometimes it just takes that one person to
inspire us, that one person to uplift us, that one
(05:35):
person to say it is possible, or that one person
to show us that it is possible. And it's so
cool that you embody not just the person that is
saying it, but you're also doing it. And then you're
also now showing that it can be done in multiple
different ways. But it all started. That love for baseball
that you continue to grow and blossom, all started with
(05:57):
your grandfather and going to Cleveland now Guardians, but at
the time Cleveland Indian Games. What do you remember vividly
about those experiences and what made you fall in love
with the game.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I don't just remember being with my grandfather and my
brother eating everything on site right every inning, getting something
else to eat, going back home with my bobble head.
I mean, it wasn't just the baseball as a kid,
it was the whole thing. It was the whole show,
you know, and I loved it. And then the more
I played baseball, of course, when more, I wanted to
be a Cleveland guardian, and so I really dreamt about
(06:30):
being a major league player. And it took me until
my teenage years to realize that wasn't going to happen,
but that love kept going.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
When did you start playing baseball?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I started with T ball, so sudden six, yeah, and
I just kept playing. And you know, I played with
my brother mostly, so it was only one year that
we played against each other. You didn't want to be
on a team with a sister anymore. So I kept
playing it and he ended up quitting. But it was
(07:04):
just a whole It was a whole lot of fun.
Twelve and under was a whole lot of fun. It's
all of it under.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
And then what happened at thirteen, Yeah, Well.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I got a new coach and he told me that
I should quit because girls play softball, and I just like,
it didn't make sense to me, and it has nothing
to do with softball. It was just the matter that
he was deciding what I could do. Because I'm a girl,
and so I decided I would never quit and I
would just keep playing baseball. And it was definitely an
uphill battle because many of the opportunities, as you know,
(07:37):
were in softball, and I just couldn't let them kick
me out because I'm a girl, like not because I
wasn't good enough, just because I'm a girl. I couldn't.
I couldn't do it. And so the more they tried
to take the game away from me, the more I
fell in love.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
The more they tried to take the game away from me,
the more I fell in love. Can you expound upon that?
Because you would think for most people's someone trying to
diminish your dream, someone telling you what you cannot do,
would at times discourage someone or put this veil or
what the game once meant to you into something else.
How did it make you fall in love with it more?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I had to work harder, I had to show and
prove every single time I went on the field, you know,
I had to ask for permission to come on the field.
And it's just something like you just hold on because
if you don't hold on, you're gonna fall off. And
it's that holding that I just ended up wanting it
more and more and more, you know, because the more
(08:34):
time I spent playing it, the more I enjoyed the game.
And it would have been nice it's just been treated
as a player and not just as a girl who
wants to play baseball. That would have been totally different.
But I have to say that that challenge that I had,
that discrimination I faced, definitely shaped how I decided to
build baseball for all so that other girls have a
(08:54):
better pathway to play whichever game they loved playing.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Going back to you being someone that is not going
to conform, and you're going to build your own path.
However it looks when it comes down to not conforming,
and would someone ever say to you, well, why not
just go play softball? What would be your response to that?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I always asked that question over and over. In fact,
my high school tried to force it really by telling
me I couldn't play baseball, But then I ended up
playing baseball against them, and then they let me play
wait house. So I ended up going to my first
high school didn't let me play, and then I went
(09:36):
to a boarding school and I went to like a
camp in Florida during spring break, and I ended up
playing against my old high school. It was crazy. So
when I returned home and asked if I could play
on the team, They're like, yo, you can.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Like four for four with a home run. They're like, okay, fine.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That I pitched them, and so I pitched well and
then and then I had just worked so hard, so
hard to get better and better. You know, I think
it would have been easier to play softball in the
sense that I would have been around girls, I would
have been celebrated for my abilities, I would have had
(10:17):
more friends. So it was definitely like tempting. It's just
something that I couldn't let go of the fact that
that's what they wanted me to do, that they wanted
me to quit baseball, the game I loved, the game
my grandfather loved just because I was a girl. And
I know that kind of sounds crazy, but it's just
(10:38):
the one thing I held onto and I'm glad I
did because it really gave me the fuel to help
build a better future for the girls today who still
loved playing baseball and want a chance to go after it.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Let's take a quick break to hear a word from
our sponsor. Not doing something because I would the holding
on to the thought of I'm not going to play
softball because that's what you wonder if I do. If
(11:15):
I give in, then you guys win and you staying
steadfast and what was your goal in the game that
you love to play. I'm sure it gave so many
other women the confidence to do the same. Did you
ever have doubt when you were doing that? Was there
ever any moments when you thought, Okay, well maybe I
should just go play softball. And when you did, if
you did have those doubts, what was it that said,
(11:38):
you know, it doesn't matter. I'm going to do this
because this is maybe bigger than myself.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
I had doubts a couple of times. It's hard to
have people against you. You maybe just a kid, right,
just trying to fit in a quick baseball for a day.
But the next you know, once I kind of cooled
a little bit, I was back on the field the
next day.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Made quit. I did oh. I had a coach.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Who was who who does something mean to me? And
I was just like, I can't win. This is I
can't win. And I just walked walked away. But I
was back the next day and I did play softball
for like a week in college, I went to play
baseball at D three school, and unfortunately they didn't let
(12:32):
me play, or you know, they said they ran out
of uniforms. So I decided I would try softball, and
it was nice to be around the other women, but
it just wasn't my game. You know. First of all,
I was a picture. I was a pitcher, and that's
just not transferable at all. So I went to spring training,
(12:53):
and then I came back and just decided to pursue
other other options. And I played in men's leagues in
the summer and so on.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Did the guys on the team support you.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Some and some not. It just is what it is,
you know, when you're a pioneer. And I didn't mean
to be a pioneer. I didn't mean to be the first.
And everything I did, it just happened because because it
hadn't been done before. Right, You pursue your passions, you go,
whether the pathways there or whether you're the one creating it.
So I just wanted to play baseball, and that's I
(13:25):
did it to the best of my ability. And now
there's more girls and women who can do it through
the Women's Professional Baseball League and through baseball for all
and frankly in youth leagues all around the country, it's
much fighter. Girls are being told they have a chance
to choose, and some girls play both softball and baseball,
and you know they're just having a good time.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
But the fact is you don't have to conform. You
can now you can do both one or the other, softball, baseball,
whatever really draws you. And at age sixteen, throughout your
path your love for baseball, you decide that you wanted
to coach, and you wanted to coach at the collegiate level.
When you formed that dream, what was like the first
(14:10):
spark and said, Okay, this is this is a school
that's got it for me, this is where I want
to go. What did that look like when that dream
came about.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It's when I realized I was going to play in
the major leagues. I know that's a long time to
live that dream, but I decided I wanted to coach.
I'd coach at the college level, which no woman had
done before. But I just thought that's what I'll what
I'll do. Like that didn't occur to me, and I
was a really, really shy kid. So the first person
(14:37):
he decided to tell my dream too. Was one of
the coaches at the camp I was at that I like,
you know, worshiped he was. He was like my coach.
I loved him, hung on every word. But when I
told him I wanted to coach, he laughed at me
and he said, no man would listen to a woman
on a baseball field. And I was really embarrassed. It's
(14:57):
really embarrassed. And then I just started thinking, who's he
to decide what I'm gonna do? And I, just as
a teenager, started learning everything I could about coaching. Right,
So if I'm a pitcher in third baseman, now I'm
going to learn how to play off field like you?
Nothing like you, but at least I could learn something
about the outfield so I could teach someone else how
to play off field. And so I just started my
(15:20):
pathway on how could I become a coach and pursued it.
And while I was getting my PhD, I became a
college baseball coach as an assistant at Springfield College. And
I can tell you that while they were surprised to
have a woman coach, they didn't really care as long
as once I showed them I could make them better players.
(15:41):
Once I showed them that I cared about them and
I could help the team win, that was all they
needed to know period.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I think it's so interesting too when we talk about
the individuals that have comments to say about women in
men's games, whether it be baseball, basketball, football, it's only
the ones that are not in the mix that have
things to say. It's like everyone that's a part of
this inner circle once they understanid oh you know ball,
(16:11):
then the respect is always mutual at that point. But
that's with anybody, right, I mean, you don't want to
listen to whether it's another man another woman with what
sport you are. Once someone shows you that they know
the game, it's like, okay, I'm all ears. And when
you were telling them and showing them and teaching them
the ropes and helping getting them better, what was what
was your philosophy your coaching philosophy.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Oh, coaching the men. My coaching philosophy was very like socratic,
like how can I get them to come up with
the idea of the answer where I want to get
them to right? So if they need to like if
they need to get their stride further, how can I
get them to realize they need to go have their
(16:54):
stride further, stride longer, in their in their pitching release.
It's easier for me to change I think if it's
their idea, So if I can get what I want
across as their idea, then they make the change quicker.
You know, you can't always do that, but you can
often be like, oh yeah, that was like you know,
(17:15):
like that was a really great pitch, like I could
see or if you're hitting right all that head position,
I loved it. Right. You just you just tell them
what they did in a positive way and then they
start creeping towards where you want them to go. And
that was kind of my philosophy working with men. Make
it their idea and they're in it. Worked pretty well.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Gosh. It's so it's basically like everyday life when you
coach men, same thing. You just have to make them
to get them to the finish line. You have to
make them think that they're the ones that set up.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
The race, like okay, yeah, yeah, I mean because you're
as the trust builds and as you know, you're just
in it. Obviously you can you can change that and
just give them direction, right, But but it is It
is one way to get people, get men to where
they're going. Yeah, a lot of men.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
They can run a race they don't realize as a race,
and they can get theer's like, thank you, Yes, you
did it. You did this. I set up the lines
for it, I carved out the finish fine thing. But
you you made this happen.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Thank you. I love those guys that I coached.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, they were great, they were great. You being a
coach at the collegiate level, it's only I mean, it's
so cool how your your journey has so many this
like these tickers, like you can document each moment to
where you just continue to elevate and change history at
one level to the next level, to the next level,
(18:44):
to the next. It WOB lifted its ban of women
participating in Major League teams or their affiliates in nineteen
ninety two, and in two thousand and nine, you became
the first woman of a coach to coach a men's
professional baseball team, and it is the Rock Rocks. What
were those first days like, as you step in making history.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, so that was Indie Ball two thousand and nine,
and I was coaching collegiately, so you know, and I
was working on a PhD in sports psyche. So in
my mind, you know, I was qualified. Yes I was
the first woman, but I was qualified to be there.
It's amazing to get to wear uniform as your job.
(19:29):
It's to have your baseball card, have a child ask
were you sign it? Just you know, I mean, it
doesn't really get better than those things. But it was
very difficult, and some people didn't want me to be there.
Some people were fine, and others didn't want me to
be there. And I had to really control my own
(19:55):
emotions and know that, you know, like Jackie Robbins and
you know, being inspired by his actions, I can't control
what how other people treat me. I can only control
how I'm gonna act. So I decided to be kind.
I decided to almost the worse it got, the more
(20:18):
I would do in kindness. And so I knew that
if I reacted with emotion, if I if I fought
back in a way, that the girls behind me would
have more difficulty getting a chance for their turn right.
If I was able to see, if they were able
(20:39):
to say, see, women, they can't handle it. They too emotional.
It's too rough here, it's too much swearing they can't
handle it, you know, like it's just a little teasing
or whatever. You know, all of that's just an excuse
for someone else not to get a chance. So I really,
as much as I love baseball, as much as I
love coaching and helping athletes, I also knew I respect
(21:00):
onsibility for those who also dropped the coaching professional baseball.
And so after I ended up with the Rock and Rocks,
I feel on MLBBP. And then in twenty fifteen I
did the Oakland Age for their Instructional League and that
(21:21):
was tremendous and a dream come true.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Really, it's so interesting when you are the first you
have to think about not just what your impact is,
but how your impact is going to then influence the
impact of those that come behind you. And the way
in which you had to navigate everything and you couldn't
(21:47):
react the way maybe you wanted to react, or you
had to suppress maybe some of the things that you
wanted to say with the thought in mind of I
want to make this better. There wasn't any moment when
you just any of these people saying crazy stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I have never really lost my cool to those people.
It just wasn't possible, right, Yeah. I also had my
daughter with me. I had my daughter in college. So
with everything I've done, she's right there. And that's such
a gift to be able to go from an environment
(22:28):
that's hostile and then just to walk away and just
have absolute love and then you know, to have that
break and the motivation of knowing what can come for
others in the future. If it was just about me,
I would have quit. Really it was just about me. Yeah,
(22:51):
I mean I got a PhD, could have just gone
on got a corporate job, or I could have been
a college professor, which would have been really easy and lovable,
and you know, like who doesn't want to be a
college professor. But I knew it was bigger. I knew
it was bigger. So as much as I loved baseball,
and I mean, I can't stress that enough. Like I
did the path because I wanted to do the path
(23:12):
because I love helping athletes be better. But at the
same time, I just knew the responsibility around me and
I took it very seriously.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Did you ever feel a lot of pressure or was
it pressure that you welcomed like you enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I didn't feel the pressure. I just felt the responsibility.
I mean, to me, it's different for me. Pressure is
you know, basis loaded with two basis loaded, and you
gotta throw a strike, sir, you gotta get someone out
or you gotta get a ground ball with this. It
was just a matter of response, being responsible, and knowing
that when something is bigger than yourself, it's much easier
(23:54):
path to walk through if it's just about me, If
it's just about ourselves, then I feel like our tolerance
is less than when we know we can do better
for others.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
What it was the maybe the meanest thing someone said
to you that you really had to overcome and look past,
or if there's something that maybe sticks with you today
that someone said that really that you are a reason
why I'm keeping going because I don't want you. It's
I wanted to be embarrassing you ever other those words
(24:26):
to another woman.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I mean, there've been so many examples of feeling unwelcomed, Yeah,
but there's also great examples of where you know when
it's it's been great and someone you know, when I
was finally kicked out of the locker room with the
Brockton Rocks and when the manager stopped talking to me
I'd been removed from first base. They were just expecting
me to really quit to never crossed my mind, you know.
(24:53):
I staged my own protests, and I sat outside of
the locker room right as the game ended, and the
team had to walk past me and know that I
was there. And a few minutes later, one of the
players came out and sat and had his dinner next
to me. Oh wow, and that gesture, like, I have
(25:13):
no idea what we talked about. All I know is
he left the safety of his locker room to just
come be with me and say, yeah, I see you.
And then he went back in and another player did
the same thing. And I think when you lead with authenticity,
and when those players knew that I cared and then
I had, I had done all I could. I earned
(25:36):
their respect. You know, just sometimes the world's not ready
for you. And what's fantastic now is that major like
baseball is a pipeline for diversity, for women to actually
get a chance to coach at the pro level. And
there's over a dozen women coaching at the pro level now,
and in some way that's what it's about. You know,
(25:57):
It's bittersweet that it wasn't me get the full time
coaching job like that. I didn't get to live that life.
But it's also very meaningful to know that others get
to that it worked to some degree. You know, I.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Absolutely did work. I mean you, The A's hired you
in twenty fifteen, marking you the first, making the first
time an MLB team employed a female coach, and then
since then there have been over forty women who have
coached MLB or MLB affiliate teams. And the impact that
(26:32):
you made the first, being the first person to start
the trade, and then so many women getting to jump
on and keep going down that path. What does that
mean to you to know that you have been a
trailblazer and now while the hardships that you've faced as
the first are now something that you did make it
a lot easier for the forty plus women in baseball today.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh it's it's humbling and it's healing. Well, you know
what I mean For me? Honestly, I only coached four
days with the four days, ten ten days with the A's.
I know that sounds crazy, but I asked Billy Bean
for four years. For four years, I asked him, you know,
it was like, Hey, I'm an associate scout for Major
(27:18):
League Baseball. Can I coach? You know? The next year, Hey,
I have a PhD? Can I come coach? Hey? You know,
like just every year becoming better and better and better
beyond what was expected of other male coaches. And finally
for the fourth year to get the yes. It took
a whole lifetime to get those ten days. And in
(27:39):
those ten days and in that news, major League Baseball realized, hey,
we can get other women. And then the next one
was Roonica Alvarez, and then Alyssa Knakin with the Giants,
and then and it just kept growing. So just to
kind of open the window a bit for people to
see what's possible, it's meaningful. And I'm just so glad
(28:05):
these kids I see now today that are fifteen and
they know that it's, you know, as possible that they
have a path. I mean, what else is life about
if you're not building brothers that.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
You don't only just build for women in the States
to coach, and you also coach internationally, including Israel national team, Japan, Mexico.
We met up in Dubai, So you have been all
over the world literally making your impact and stamping your
(28:38):
mark on the world of baseball. What would you say
is probably your proudest moment throughout your journey so far.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Oh, my proudest thing is that my daughter calls me
for no reason that's nothing to do with baseball. My
proudest thing is that I have somewhat somehow succeeded as
a mother and my daughter likes me at twenty seven
years old. But baseball baseball wise, it's you know, uh,
if you went to tryouts for the Professional Baseball League
(29:08):
and we had, you know, six hundred people sign up
for these tryouts, and I've got an adult women coming
up to me because do you remember me? You coached
me when I was twelve. You know, that's pretty cool,
you know because I know that when they were twelve,
it was all just starting and we were just getting
girls baseball, you know, throughout the US. So I think
(29:32):
that that's very rewarding for me to see. And then
with the WPB on knowing that with a professional league,
girls can now look up and say, hey, that's possibility.
They can see those world models, just like with the AUSL. Right,
I mean, that's fantastic. These these girls will know that
they can play softball at the professional level they can
be you. I mean, you're amazing, and that's well, it's
(29:56):
just the truth. And you know, now girls are seeing
that they have choices and that they have a future,
and I love that.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
So many choices. I think that that's one of the
best things that can come from the growth of women's sports.
Oftentimes there weren't a professional league for so many women,
or you had to go play overseas, or you kind
of had to accept the fact that your life in
the sport you've played your entire life will come to
(30:27):
an end potentially after college because there just isn't a
pro league for you anywhere. And now there's so many
girls that are able to continue on. So there's more
to cover, But first, let's take a quick break. When
(30:49):
I did my master's thesis, I went to a field
and I asked of twelve young boys where they wanted
to be when they grew up, and they all said
baseball players, baseball coaches. And then I asked twelve young
girls same thing, and they all said teacher. Doctor. Only
one little girl said, I want to play professional softball,
(31:10):
but I'm not sure if it's possible. And I bet
today if I were to go and do that same
that was back in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. If I bet,
if I were to go back to that same ballpark
and ask twelve young girls and twelve young boys the
same question, it would be completely different answers. We'd have
some girls to say, I'm want to be professional baseball player.
(31:30):
I'm going to be professional softball player. So the boys
will still have all the same responses, but the girls,
I'm hoping that they would all have it would be
a lot more that think they can go out and
play professionally. And with you building your foundation, Baseball for All,
that was your ultimate goal to let these young girls
know that they can go on and they do have
(31:51):
a space to play the game that they love. Really,
what was the biggest maybe impact that you've seen Baseball
for All have on the young girls have gone through
your tournaments.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
There's two streams to that. One is that Major League
Baseball now supports girls and women playing baseball. There's now
girls they run girls baseball programming, which is something they
did after our national tournaments. So just again just showing that,
like you know, Monday Davis being on the stage and
then you know, seeing girls baseball through Baseball for All
(32:25):
was very meaningful in that they're now programming across the
country for girls to play.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
The second is.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I love I love love that our girls who are
players come back as coaches, and so I love the
full circle that these girls, you know, we tell them
that they're never too young to lead, They're never too
young to make a difference. And so we have fifteen
year olds coaching eleven year olds, and we have you know,
graduates from our program coming back after playing for you know,
(32:57):
Team USA and just coaching and give clinics because they
want to get back. And I love that community.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I love seeing that Baseball for All has truly become.
Of course it's your foundation, but it feels like it
is a national movement at this point. It feels like
it is something that is continuing to like touch everybody
that's affiliated associated within baseball and to know that this
is you can play. You don't have to choose to
(33:23):
your point, you don't have to choose to go play softball.
You don't have to play baseball your whole life and
then college comes and now you don't know what to do.
You can go on to play baseball in college. Now
we can go on and play baseball professionally as well
with the WPBL. Oh you starting and co founding the WPBL.
(33:44):
Run me through the inception of the idea and knowing
that this is going to be this is what I
want to do, and this is going to be another
game changer, game changing league for women's sports.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, and for sure, you know I need to mention
all of the women athletes before this league, who have
you know, walk backwards uphill to get women's pro sports going.
And we are certainly writing on the on the wave
of women's soccer, women's basketball, and and and everything built
before us. Uh. But it was my co founder, Keith
(34:18):
Stein called me up and said would you do this?
You know, he did research and who should I contact?
And thankfully my name came up first in Google. So,
uh when you asked me, I said yes, and and
I'm really thrilled with what we're accomplishing. We partnered with
Freemantle Media, so you know, I know that everything is
(34:40):
going to be top notch as well. You're gonna get
to see our broadcasting. You get to come out to
a game and grab a hot dog and your favorite
drink on a summer evening and just watch great play
and and I absolutely love it. Uh that we're here, right,
we'll launch this summer. And sometimes you lose obviously lose
(35:00):
the words for the gratitude for the moment, you know,
and it's just going to be really fantastic, and it's
gonna you know, it's America's pastime is going to come
to everyone. And now girls know it's not just that
they get to know that they choose baseball or softball,
or they're not choosing baseball or softball. It's that they
(35:21):
know that that they can do what their brothers do,
that they have the opportunity to pursue what they love.
And I truly believe that when you pursue what your dreams,
good things happen. And so now now that pathway is
there for them.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Pursue your dreams, good things happen. Leagues begin to can
be started. I mean, off, we talked about women and
the new leagues that are going to be starting or
expanding in twenty twenty six, and that's unrivaled a USL,
the new volleyball league that's going to be coming out.
There's in twenty twenty six. There's so many women's sports
(35:58):
are just continuing to grow. I always say it's not
a trend, it's a movement. And now adding women's baseball
launching in twenty twenty six year have four teams, Boston,
New York, LA, and San Francisco. Why why did you
choose those cities?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Oh? Because they're the great cities, right, They've got great
sports history and a ton of fans and also a
history of supporting women's sports. So we will be at
a neutral site this year, which we'll be announcing in
a couple of weeks, and then and twenty seven looking
(36:36):
to be in those spots.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Oh, that's gonna be so exciting. And I imagine that.
I mean, is it going to be Is it gonna
be completely independent of MLB or is there going to
be some some type of partnership? Do you think?
Speaker 2 (36:50):
We're open to working with Major League Baseball? But we're
not waiting for them. And we appreciate the support we
got from the Wash to Nationals where we had our tryouts.
MLB dot com it has been covering us, so we're
very grateful and just moving forward building the platform where
(37:10):
we're going.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
How do you operate? You said there's six hundred women
that came out to the tryout and when you go
into the next couple of years as far as the
draft goes, how is the draft set up?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, our draft is November twenty. It's going to be
online with some special surprises. So follow our socials to
get all the information. And so we have one hundred
we have like a top one hundred list. We're four teams,
but certainly we're going to expand, right, so that's even
more exciting. There's going to be more spots, more jobs,
and not just on the field, but also off the
(37:48):
field coaches, GM's announcers, So we're building ecosystem of jobs
for women in baseball. So we'll have our draft and
you know you're you We already big names. Money Davis,
Kelsey Witt Moore are just two big names. So we
(38:11):
have players from all around the world. We had ten
countries represented at tryouts.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
So it's it's very exciting.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You know, baseball has always been a global game, and
our league's going to reflect on.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
How are you getting the data to know who is
you want to draft? Is it coming from baseball for
all tournaments? Is it becoming from like MLB Trailblazers. How
are you notified and knowing that this is this is
a talent we want to have on our team.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
It helps to have national teams, right, we have Team USA.
So it's so in theory we've identified the top twenty
players or the top forty players, right, because sometimes you
don't make a national team for you know, some various reasons.
If there's three lefties that year, you know, it could
be it could be any kind of thing. So you know,
you know who the top forty players are. And we
know there's twenty five countries with national teams, so we
(39:04):
know who are generally top Canadian teams. But we did scouting,
We held our tryouts, we allow people to show videos,
send us videos, and we attended the national Championships in
Canada as well as an event here in the US
with some of the best national players. So we feel
we really got to see many of the best players
(39:26):
and identified them. And I think the best part is
going in the future is going to be what countries
is next? Right, We're we're going to find the next GENO.
Is it going to be in Uganda? It could very
well be, right, They're growing baseball opportunities there, so always
what's next is always a fun idea.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
So are we gonna like expand and have a team,
you know, the Toronto, we'll have a team maybe in
I don't know, Uganda, Dubai. We'll just have take up.
We'll take three, you know, three travel days instead of
one go over.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yeah, we're just going to team up and we're just
going to do race fall softball around the world. Oh
but only in business class exactly. I don't know if
I can buy again back in economy. But it's a
real privilege to be in the game right now. This
is a big moment and a big pivoting point. And
uh and just grateful to be have a hand in it.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
You talked about, of course the girls and women being
able to play with men, continuing to play the sport
that they love is amazing. But your quote is saying
there's just something special about girls playing with other girls,
And you said how women's baseball. One they're no longer
the girl on the team, they're just ballplayers. And two
(40:46):
there's a lot of camaraderie. And three there's a pipeline
that can be created. And that's one thing that the
WPBL provides. An end to that pipeline. When you think
about what the pipeline looks like, how would you.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Describe, Well, the pipeline currently beyond the international movement is
in the US. Is the girls playing with the boys
or Olivia Pachario playing D one baseball with men. But
like softball where you get to play with other girls,
like soccer where you get to play for other girls,
that would be My goal is to see girls baseball
(41:24):
as a regular opportunity to play in. So I'm very
supportive of co ed baseball, but I know more opportunities
will come if we create girls leagues around the country.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Creating girls leagues around the country and the Women's Pro
Baseball League, you're building it from scratch. You are building
it from scratch. You are creating something that's ever been created,
and there's really no handbook. There's guidelines because there are
many leagues have been built from scratch, but there's no
handbook to doing something for the very first time. Is
there a model or a league that you're following. What
(41:58):
what's really been a big help in growing and expanding
this league.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
I think all of it. It's not one, it's all
of it. How do we learn from others. How do
we see what went well or what could have gone better.
If we're not studying all of it, then then we're
missing we're missing a part, and just a lot of
gratitude towards those who have been willing to share.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
That's gonna be my next question. Who's like really been
able to help you out with it?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
You know, getting tidbits of information from women and men
from leagues all around the country, whether it's I mean,
you know all of the major leagues, I've talked to
someone from from there who have just given bits of
information like this really worked for us, or something I
wouldn't have thought about, like get your data set on
the first day, right know what data you're collecting, because
(42:53):
it's historical and you're starting it and you want it
to be right from the beginning. Like yeah, yeah, of
course we did. But you know, there's a hundred things
to think about. But this is a really great point.
Thank you so much for telling me and reminding me
that we have to make We were setting the foundation
of data, you know, for what one hundred years, So
(43:14):
just things like that, The amount of people that have
come fans just saying I can't wait, I can't wait.
And that's not just women, that's men too, and that's girls,
and that's you know, that's my nephew wearing our hat. Right,
it's just the can't wait for the league to jump,
and neither can I.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
You know what I'm thinking about too, is in twenty
twenty seven, when MLB has the inevitable lockout. Depending on
how long that goes and what that looks like, this
may be a real deal league of their own where
we are watching women's baseball only when it comes to baseball.
(43:55):
When you think about the impact worldwide that this league
is I believe going to have from the from the beginning,
how do you feel, what's like the first feeling that
sparks in you?
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Well, now we'll have the real players play, right. Yeah,
now you'll get thirty million for being the best outfield
in the right league.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
One can dream.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I I you know, I love Major League Baseball, you know,
but there's enough room for all of us.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
I love that there is enough room for all of us.
And from we talked about the inception of the league,
you also have advisors that have been a part of
creating something from scratch as well. Maybel Blair is an
advisor to your league. Who's someone who's played in the
nineteen forty eight for the All American Girls Professional Baseball League.
(44:49):
And for those that don't know, that was made famous
for being the inspiration for the movie that we all
love to know a league of their own. What of
conversations with Maybell been like and what has she been advising?
Speaker 2 (45:05):
She's she's wonderful. The all of the All Americans are
so supportive, and you know, you can join the association.
Go to their website support the All Americans. They're still
coming out signing autographs. Those who are left, they're all
in their nineties. But Maybell called me the other day
just to say, hey, are you taking care of yourself?
(45:26):
You know, don't get burned out, you know, make sure
you eat well and get some sleep. Right, you know,
she's ninety seven calling to check in on me. I mean,
I'm gonna save that voicemail. First voicemailed, then I called her,
so I'm one voice fail say forever. And then of
course my heart's full just talking with her. So it's
it's really beautiful. And actually this year in Rockford, Illinois,
(45:50):
we have the World Cup Qualifier happening, which will include
Team you say, Team Canada. And then we have Baseball
for All National Tournament happening at the same time, and
the All American Girls Professional Baseball League Reunion. So in
this one city, in this one week, we're going to
freak to four generations playing baseball. And that it's like,
(46:16):
just wow, what am I supposed to say?
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Just wow?
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Wow, We're going to go to ninety seven to age six.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
I love it?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
How does it? How does it get better?
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Toby Lily moment, people were like, I see my future. No, literally,
this is it's right here, right in front of you.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
And you're ninety seventy, and they get to see the future.
So so the girls get to look up and the
older ones get to to see that they're going to
be moving on, knowing that things are in good hands,
that the sport they loved is now available to everyone.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
I think it's a cool look at it. It is
like the younger ones get to look they look up
or they look forward, and they see such a beautifully
paved road, and the all Americans can look back and
see how that road being paved right like it's you
look back, you see how much better it's gotten because
(47:18):
of the dirt that they had to trek from the beginning,
and then the young kids get to look forward and
see nothing but a pretty paved road. May's gonna have
maybe a couple dips in it every now and then,
they still got to work through, but still no longer
a dirt road, which is.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Really cool, absolutely super it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
You have one or received numerous honors from Baseball Hall
of Fame to IOC nomination from your journey and the
road that you've paved in the game of baseball, what recognition, honor,
or maybe even just compliment has really meant them to you?
Speaker 2 (48:00):
And why?
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Well, when I.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Saw my jersey in the National Baseball Hall of Fame
in Cooper's count I mean my stomach literally jumped, you know,
to be just a shy girl from Cleveland, who never
who never gave up, is it's something, you know, every
word I'd have is just in a closet, you know,
I don't. I don't have the one display or anything
(48:23):
like that. It's it's it's a movement. As you're saying,
it's a movement, We're not there, you know, we're not
at the destination. We're still we're still moving and we
can only build together. It's just not one person. We
can only build together. And so I'm just very grateful
to the community who's really you know, even I understand that,
(48:46):
you know, my work has sparked the movement, but it
couldn't be done without everybody. It would just be an
idea lost in a room without the passion and drive
of everyone else who made it happen.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Thanks for staking us from first to second base will
be routing third after the breaks. What do you hope
that the young girls when you go and you get
to see from ninety seven to six, so the young
(49:21):
girls to the young women too, are more mature women
get to what do you feel or what do you
hope they will take away from your story in the
full circle moment of wp BL Because while you didn't
become a Cleveland Guardian, you're still have such a hand
(49:43):
in young women that play baseball having the dream to
say they can go and play pro.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
It's multifaceted, right, It's I want them to know that
they're perfect as they are. They're for everyone who's told
them that they're not supposed to go play baseball, right,
which is just a symbol. It's a same thing you
say women shouldn't be scientists, women shouldn't you know, have mortgages,
you know, they women shouldn't ride bikes. I mean, it
just goes back far and far of all the historically
(50:10):
things that they've said roles and women shouldn't do. And
I think that that perspective is important, you know, but
one day I just want them to not know it
wasn't an option, you know that that they just kind
of get spoiled a little bit like their brothers and
they just play. That's it, no more fighting, just playing.
(50:32):
I'd love to see that, just play.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
And what that Just go play, just go from the
very first thing you said when we were talking about
the quotes, he said, if it's something that you are
passionate about or something that you love, just go. I
think those were your words, and so being able to
now be able to just go. Well, now we're gonna
go into my favorite segment, which is the no fly
(50:56):
zone segment, and I want to know your days on
the mound blowing pitches by men and women alike on
a baseball field. What's your favorite play that you've made
in your career.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
My favorite play was the whole game when I pitched
against my old high school whouln't let me play? I
read like, what a moment, What a moment to pitch
successfully against them. I think that's I'm gonna take the
whole inning, if that's okay with you.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Heck yeah, any strikeouts.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
I think no one got out, got the ball out
of the infield period.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
I wish you would have did did you like a
little celebration in their face or anything?
Speaker 2 (51:40):
She just started a brawl. Oh I should have shouted
him brall. Why did I think of that? No, I
was just I was just happy. It's just a moment
where I was. You know, you're just content, You're happy,
you did it, You did what you loved, and you
got to prove them wrong. All in the same moment.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Not only did you prove them wrong, but you had
to yourself right of the things that you're capable of doing.
And for all other baseball players wanted to go out
and prove themselves right. What do you think is the
key to being an elite baseball player?
Speaker 2 (52:11):
I mean everyone's going to tell you practice and learning
and everything, but I would say, be kind to yourself
through the process. You know, speak well to yourself. And
if you do that, then your mind and your body
can open up to its full potential.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
What do you think is the key to being an
elite baseball player as a woman that's on a team
with individuals that don't believe she should be on that team.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
I think determination and in belief not just in themselves,
but that what they're doing is right. You know, knowing
that they're that standing there, there's there's someone watching, and
you're changing their mind. You know you're creating the light
(53:02):
bulb and know that you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
What would you say in all of being able to
realize that you're creating your own light bulb or creating
a light bulb in someone else's mind, we've had to
go through as baseball players, softball players, athletes experience failure
before we experience success. What would you say is your
favorite failure that you've had that has ultimately led you
(53:29):
to some of your biggest or best successes.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
That's a really great question.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I will say that I was a hothead.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Had a really hard time failing, you know, thinking wearing
that Oh I got to show them that girls can
do it.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
That passion channels correctly has helped me become the person
I am right. So there's a choicehere. We can let
that kind of burn us, that pressure, or we can
take that pressure and let it expand us and see
what we're capable.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Of channel that passion. It's a fuel. We'll propel you
forward the best ways.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Propebably folder expand you in ways you didn't know you
could go.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Yeah, well, when we talk about expanding in ways that
no one knows you could go, or beyond what expectations are,
what are your hopes for w for the women's baseball
league that's coming.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
My hope is obviously filled seats, filled stadium, come out,
have a great time. I'm so confident that if you
come to a game, you watch on broadcasting, follow us
on social media, that you're going to fall in love
with these women and their stories and the passion and
ability to play this great game.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Well, I am excited because back from our affirmation, well
behave women rarely make history. Someone has to be the first.
Why not me? These women out there will not bend,
they will not break, they will not conform because I say,
only my history is made. Jesseine, thank you for striking
(55:18):
the match, for leading the way, and I am so
excited to be at the first game of the WPPL
and to see history be made and to be able
to witness all the amazing women that I had a
hand in it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
We'll see you there yay.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
Well, thank you guys all for listening. Justine, thank you
again for coming on and dropping your diamonds. Please remember,
if you have a passion for it, like Justine says,
if a passion for it is something you want to do,
just go Remember you can't make history if you conform.
A's just not how history is made. Don't conform. Go
(55:59):
after what you want and stay steadfast towards your goals.
Thank you so much for listening today's episode. Let's continue
this conversation on Instagram at Dropping Diamonds pod and remember,
well behaved women rarely make a story. Just go, see
you guys next week back at the diamond Bye for now.
(56:24):
Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball Link and Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. I'm your host AJ Andrews. Our
executive producer is Jesse Katz. Tari Harrison is our supervising producer,
and this episode was mixed and mastered by Mary Doo.
Listen to Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews on the iHeartRadio app,
(56:47):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, m
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