June 1, 2026 • 21 mins
Tennis legend Billie Jean King sits down with Billy Porter to reflect on a lifetime of breaking barriers, from equal pay in sports to LGBTQ+ advocacy, and why the fight for inclusion is far from over. King shares why progress requires persistence and how she supports today’s generation role in pushing forward.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Everything we do is for the future generations.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
The players today, the women athletes, doesn't matter what support,
they're living the dream we had for them.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
This is the Elton John Impact Awards, celebrating the cultural
icons who champion equality for everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Because it's how we impact other people's lives, how we
contribute to them, that matters.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
It's really really important.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Billy Jane King as a trailblazing tennis champion and equality
advocate whose fearless fight for gender equity transformed both the
sport and society. She's a true legend and I can't
think of anyone more worthy of the Impact Award.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Oh I so enjoyed this meeting of the billies, ladies
and gentlemen. Billy Jean King.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
What an honor it is to be sitting across the
table from you.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
We met years ago, Yes we did. I think we were
in Peatown or someplace. Maybe we were in Peatown me
Kinky booths, maybe after.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
After in Kinky boots. I have the picture of that.
But also we did some sort of benefit.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Now think about the rest of the day. That is okay, we.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Will you know, we're here for the Elton John Impact
Aboard Billy Jean King is one of this year's honorees.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
How does it feel?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
It's overwhelming in some ways, but it's such an honor honor,
isn't it?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
To me?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
The honor goes to my wife as well, Ilana Claus,
who's still on the board of the Elton John Aids Foundation.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yes, how long have you known Elton Elton and been
friends with Elton?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I met Elton two weeks before I played Bobby Riggs
in nineteen seventy three Wow in LA and he was
my all time favorite because the way he plays a
piano was my first love.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I have zero talent, not like you and others, and Elton.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
You have talent, but we all have our gifts.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
And I loved his songs. Of course.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Then I met Bernie top And who does the lyrics,
So I met him in nineteen seventy three, but we
really got to know each other in seventy four when
I came to Wimblin. He left a note to call him,
and I almost didn't call him because I'm like, eh,
so shy, but he came over his rolls Royce and
his forty two speakers in it or whatever, and we
listened to music until five o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
We just hit it off, just boom like that.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But you know, Elson loves soccer, or we'd say football
for in Europe, boon antennis.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Those are his two favors.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I mean, he would loved him in like wimblin champion
all that, of course I love. I think every athlete
wants to be rock and roll star, and a lot
of rock and roll stars athletes. So it's a great,
wonderful common society.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
We're all together.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, it is divine order that you are one of
the recipients this year.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
You know, I'm interesting to know being a.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Trailblazer, being one of the firsts of something. I'm a
first of something, and I know sort of what it
feels like to kind of sit in this space of
having leadership sort of thrust upon you.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Well, that's true. You know, followers choose leaders. Leaders don't
choose followers.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, I've never heard that before, and yes, bingo. You know,
people ask me all the time like, well, how does
it feel? I hate that question. But the question that
I would prefer is, in all of the accomplishments and achievements.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
You've made, what would be one.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Of your proudest you know, sometimes you can't choose.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I don't really have one. Probably.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I think we're going to discuss legacy, probably, and legacy
is what other people think about us.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, well each one, every human being. Yeah, you know,
what are they leaving? What do they stand for?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
But really, I think the way I'm going to judge
myself anyway is what kind of contributions can I make
to this world?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Can make it a better world? Yes, and so it's
my I'm responsible.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I'm always wondering how can I contribute one more thing,
particularly before I leave this world because I'm any one
now for the younger generation, I feel great.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I'm still hitting.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Tennis balls is the reason I was still let you
earlier we were talking.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Tennis is the healthiest sport in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
They've done all kinds of research Mayo Clinic and everybody,
and you live almost ten years longer than average. So
we try to hit two to three times a week
at least, but we're so busy. But I think it's
contributions that one can make, like you give me contributions,
And I think we need to really work on inclusion.
I've always fought for girls of color to get them
(04:53):
in tennis and men, because we did. You know, when
I started tennis, it was so white. I had an
epiphany when I was twelve. It was at the La
Tennis Club. I'll never forget. I've been playing tennis one year.
I didn't know what tennis was really until someone said
you want to play? I said, what's tennis? And I
just looked around and I thought, you know, everybody whereas
(05:13):
all white. They play with white balls. Everybody's playing as white.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And I said to myself, where is everybody else? This
is ridiculous. You know, Like my dad loved Joe Lewis
for instance.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Later I love Muhammad Alihi and I would always talk
about how to pay attention because you never know how
another person's going to touch your life or how you're
going to touch their life.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So every human being should pay attention because relationships are everything.
They really are yourself with your loved ones, with community, whatever.
So it's really important. But I'm just big on thinking
about each and every one of us as a human
being first. You know, then we can get into color,
we can get into religion, we can get into other things.
(05:58):
But it's good to meet people that don't think like yourself, right,
and it's good to get I think it's good to
get out of the comfort zone, my comfort zon, out
of the bubble and get out of there and learn
about others because whether we like or not, we got
a lot of people on this earth and we need
to get along.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Bill you or not, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Rolling back to being a young lady in sports, breaking barriers,
breaking glass ceilings, what was the process, Well, the process of.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
You coming out, was there fear involved?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
No, there's a lot of fear.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Was scared of death because first of all, I wanted
to divorce my husband, Larry, who is adorable. I mean,
he's a great guy, and he didn't want to get divorced,
so that was a challenge. Then we started the Women's
Professional Tour. Professional tennis started in nineteen sixty eight. Okay,
so I was working very hard in getting tennis to
(06:55):
go to be a professional sport because if you're really no, well,
I wanted the men and women together, and the men
said no all the time.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So I would rather us be together.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Even today, I'm hoping before I'm out of here that
the men and women's associations will be together so they
said no back then, But then we started women's professional tennis,
and then we started a tour, and the tour told
me they knew things were happening behind the scenes, and
I was trying to fa who I am and what
my sexuality was, and I really wasn't clear, and they said, well,
(07:29):
if you say one word, we won't have a tour all.
That'll put the fear of God in me, which it did,
because it's not just about me now. Now it's about
the tour, which is global. By the way, it's not
just it's global. It's a lot a.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Lot of iteople and there's a lot of people. So
I kept quiet. In the meantime, I kept trying to
figure life out.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
And then in eighty one I was outed by somebody
had an affair with Marilyn Barnett, and I lost all
my endorsements in twenty four hours except one, but he
cut down the price a lot, and I just signed
new contracts.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I was thirty seven. I just signed new contracts.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So I was finally going to make some money because
the first generations we didn't make the money right.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
The Trailblazers were very offense.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
But everything we do is for the future generations so
they can live the dream like the players today, the
women athletes, doesn't matter what sport, they're living the dream
we had for them.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Now.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Is it still the way we want it? Absolutely not.
We're trying to make it bigger, better. But the point
is it's a lot better, tons better than it was,
and you want every generation to get better.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, so that's important.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So anyway, when I was out it, I had to
start over, and my PR people really wanted Larry and
I to stick together, so of course I listened because
I was beside myself. I just started going with Ilana
in seventy nine, so everybody said, you have to leave
because we don't want you to get in trouble. So
it was horrible. I would never you have to leave
where she had to go home to South Africa.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Oh, she a lot. I had to.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
You have to get out of here, you have to go. Okay,
everything's got to be clear. And that was wrong because
I should have just not done what my PR people
said in the first place. I went against my lawyer
and my PR person said you should never say admit this.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
You say it's private.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Absolutely not. I said, I'm going to tell the truth,
and they were the truth, and they I'll set you free,
you hope. So and so they were upset with me
because I wanted to do this, but I did it
and they did get behind it once I said we're going.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
To do this, and thank god you did so I basically.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Started over and I was in my forties. That's been
my journey and everything's worked out great. But it was
a difficult process. But I think everyone has difficult processes
they go through. I don't know what you went through,
but you came out at sixteen, didn't you.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
I came out at sixteen. You know.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Everybody told me that my gayness would be my liability,
you know, much put me out.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
My drama school.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Tried to beat it out of me. I went I
was Pentecostal. I grew in Pentecostal. And they in quotes
whoever they are, weren't entirely wrong for a long period
of time. You know, the first twenty twenty five years
of my career, it was liability. My queerness was a
liability until it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
It's not now, baby, it's not. When did it shift?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Do you think it shifted in me? First?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Just like you just said, true. You said, I'm going
to tell the truth. And I said, at thirty in
my thirties, early thirties, you know what it was? After
my first record deal imploded, R and B record deal
on an M Records, nineties.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
R and B very very straight, very homophobic. And I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Lying, but I just wasn't speaking, like like your lawyer said, yeah,
I wasn't know.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I just wasn't speaking.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
And that sort of felt fine at the time, and
then it didn't work anyway. So I had to forsaken
myself and did not get the reward that I was
promised for doing that. And I thought, I will never
fail as somebody else again. If I fail, I will
(11:24):
be failing as my full, authentic self. And I took
myself out of the masculinity game. And it didn't happen overnight,
but slowly but surely it was like, oh, well, you
love yourself enough. I loved myself enough. I loved myself
(11:44):
to life, and that's what we have to teach our
young people and remind our young people.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
But you have to be safe.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And so if someone says to me, well I want
to come out, I always say, make.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Sure you feel safe.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Safe yes.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And when you do come out, the question I would
ask is do you trust the people you're talking to?
Like I put the trust in the rest of the
world basically when I came out because I knew what
I was doing. You have to do it in good
faith almost just go for it because to your point,
you have to be your authentic self first. But there's
certain times people are not safe to come out, so
(12:20):
you have to ask yourself that first. I mean, who
am I talking to some young person in the United
States whose family's pretty good?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I talked to a mother the other day that has
a trans child and she's you can tell she's a
wonderful mother about this. She's encouraged her child to be
whoever they want to be, and that is major.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Trailblazers like Billy Jean King have made it easier to
be an out and proud athlete. That's because when she
came out in the eighties, she wasn't just thinking about
herself and living her own life authentically. She was also
thinking about all the LGBTQ plus athletes who would come
(13:11):
after her.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
We need to talk in the terms of we, not
me so much. I mean, there's no way we could
have changed tennis, for instance, if we all thought about me,
because nothing would have happened. And when things started to
happen is when we started thinking. You know, everything I
would talk about is we, like every single athlete were
(13:37):
a team.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
We are not. It's not about I or me, It's
about we.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Real change comes about when we think in terms of
I think we at least it did for me prely.
That's what I experienced and continue to experience. Like even
the Elton John Aids Foundation. When Elton came off of
being eating disorder, drugs, drinking everything. I remember, I'm going
through all that and it felt so bad for him,
but look what happened from that. He got a second
(14:04):
chance in life. Elton goes, you know what, I have
a second chance. I'm going to start the Elton John
Aids Foundation. When he started it in nineteen ninety two,
I remember seeing with him. He says, I've got to
do something with my life. He just knew he had
a second chance in life and he was not going
to blow it this time. He was going to make
it right and make it right for others. And age
is something he understood and with the community entering having
(14:25):
so many aids and from the eighties there was just ridiculous.
And so I really admired Elton for that because he
could have gotten better of it than what and with
his music and with the people that love him and
understand him and.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Love everything he does. But he just he just did it.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
And I don't think I don't know if people realize it,
but ELM's very competitive, which I and so I thought that,
I mean, I get.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
It, yeah, because yeah, absolutely, but I'll never forget.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Well, he wrote this song for me called Philadelphia Freedom, Yes,
and I remember saying, I want.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
To write a song for you to go what what?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I couldn't even I'm like, I didn't hear him, right,
you know, clean out the ears?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And he goes, no, no, no, what are you gonna
call it? What are we gonna call it?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Because his brain goes really fast, and I'm like, huh huh,
I'm just kidding over the idea. He goes, and I
played for a tennis team in Philadelphia Freedoms. He goes,
let's call it the Philadelphia Freedoms. And he knew I
liked the sound of Philadelphia and music as well. It's
one of the things I like Phi. Yeah, I do
like it. So anyway, what I love about this It
became number one, but it crossed. It's the first song
(15:31):
of his a crossover in R and B number one.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
It wasn't Benny and the Jets, that was Philadelphia Freedom
number one.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
He got so excited, you know, an he always twisted
his arm up and his forearm of course that farm
forearms like a panel. And I'm like, oh my god,
So you're so happy.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So Billy, your life has had many many twists and turns,
and you know, you became number one and changed tennis forever,
and you came out in your late thirties and then
paved the way for other athletes. With that said, what
advice would you give to young LGBTQ plus vote.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
This will go for anybody, but pticularly for our.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Community of the LGBTQ plus because let's face it, we're
a minority, and anytime you have smaller numbers, the others
are usually when just through power and votes and all
that stuff. So it's important we stick together, but also
to get allies, to get people to understand and want
(16:33):
to be in tune with us, and also to stand
up for us because we're really tiny as far as percentages,
But if I were trying to encourage young people to
do some things.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Ed Willard, he used.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
To be a mentor of Ilana's and mine. He was
CEO of DuPont, but he was what we loved is
his friendship. And I said to Ed one day, I
go ed, I'm always giving these commencement speeches.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I'm always giving you know, the kids are used probably
twenty two ish.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I said, I want to give them three bullets of
facts that maybe will help them with their lives. So
he and I took three years. We looked at inner success,
which means happiness, inner success, and out of success together,
like what are who are these people? What are the
traits in them? And we came up with these three things.
(17:22):
And they don't have to be in order. You are
the person who's listening. Now you decide what order they
should be in or when it matters. Relationships are everything,
which is my favorite one with yourself, with your loved ones,
with your higher up whatever. One of the other ones
is to keep learning and to keep learning how to learn.
(17:43):
We found people that are happy, They're always going for it.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
It's like me going back to school. Yeah, like I'm
going back to school. I'm gonna get my school.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
I love.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Just did you go back to I went back to
school in my thirties. I went to the screenwriting program
at US.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Isn't that great?
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yeah? You want to change my life forever? Apps and
you just every day I keep learning.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And the last one is to be a problem solver
and an innovator in your lifetime. If you just do
those three things, you'll be surprised that you go through
the day. I guarantee you one of those comes up.
They usually all three come up for me.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Sometimes you just as we move through life, we just
have to have the little reminders.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
You know. I do the stickers on the mirror and back.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
That's great. You know you look like an athlete.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
I do believe precious.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Privilege in the now. Don't give me the ball.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
We are athletes, those of us. Who are you? Are
your dancer doing Broadway shows eight times a week.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Athletic, Yes, especially the day of shows.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Me not for the it's not for the paint. And
everybody ain't able.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Especially if you're singing, dancing, doing really putting it out there. Yeah,
always thinking about you guys when I go to a show.
I get so mesched though to a fault. But then
I go I start thinking about your lives and how
much you have to practice and how much you rehearsal
and then you have to You've got to be in
the present or you don't win. I don't care what
(19:09):
your life is about, just remember those things. Stay in
the present. When you're present, that's when life said it's best.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
So we're here today because you are being honored with
the Elton John Impact Aboard.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
What an honor it is.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I mean, you know, with Elton having his name on
the Impact Award, but it's an honor to think that
I had an impact it all in the LGBT community.
But I'm always trying to help any way I can. Also,
I find talking with young people who have just come
out or thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
That's why I really.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Try to listen and listen really really hard, and then
try to help figure out what do they need now
and for the future, because they are the future for
our community. And I want our community to be safe,
and I want our community to be open. We need
al and I mean even our marriage is at stake
right now, and I cannot believe that.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I mean Lana and I got married. We've been together
forty five years, couldn't.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Get married when we wanted, and then we got married,
And I mean twenty eighteen. Anyway, I just want people
to be free and have the same rights. I want
everyone to have the same rights, to be good to
each other and have more empathy. But I think this
Elton John Impact Award, hopefully we'll encourage people to think
about our community and what can they do to impact it,
(20:29):
Because it's how we impact other people's lives, how we
contribute to them that matters. And so I think this
Elton John Impact Award puts a light and a focus
on the fact that everyone matters and everyone can help
make an impact.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
It's really really important.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Thanks for listening to the Elton John Impact Awards. Please
check out the extended interviews with our honorees and insightful
words from our beneficiary partners. The Elton John Impact Awards
is presented by iHeartRadio and Pong in partnership with the
Elton John Aids Foundation and Brandy.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Carlyle's Looking Out Foundation.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
A special thanks to our partners Bounty Cascade, Sharman, Don Downey, Fabreeze,
Panteen and Tide, who continue to support LGBTQ plus organizations
working in our community every day
Everything we do is for the future generations.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
The players today, the women athletes, doesn't matter what support,
they're living the dream we had for them.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
This is the Elton John Impact Awards, celebrating the cultural
icons who champion equality for everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Because it's how we impact other people's lives, how we
contribute to them, that matters.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
It's really really important.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Billy Jane King as a trailblazing tennis champion and equality
advocate whose fearless fight for gender equity transformed both the
sport and society. She's a true legend and I can't
think of anyone more worthy of the Impact Award.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Oh I so enjoyed this meeting of the billies, ladies
and gentlemen. Billy Jean King.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
What an honor it is to be sitting across the
table from you.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
We met years ago, Yes we did. I think we were
in Peatown or someplace. Maybe we were in Peatown me
Kinky booths, maybe after.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
After in Kinky boots. I have the picture of that.
But also we did some sort of benefit.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Now think about the rest of the day. That is okay, we.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Will you know, we're here for the Elton John Impact
Aboard Billy Jean King is one of this year's honorees.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
How does it feel?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
It's overwhelming in some ways, but it's such an honor honor,
isn't it?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
To me?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
The honor goes to my wife as well, Ilana Claus,
who's still on the board of the Elton John Aids Foundation.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yes, how long have you known Elton Elton and been
friends with Elton?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I met Elton two weeks before I played Bobby Riggs
in nineteen seventy three Wow in LA and he was
my all time favorite because the way he plays a
piano was my first love.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I have zero talent, not like you and others, and Elton.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
You have talent, but we all have our gifts.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
And I loved his songs. Of course.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Then I met Bernie top And who does the lyrics,
So I met him in nineteen seventy three, but we
really got to know each other in seventy four when
I came to Wimblin. He left a note to call him,
and I almost didn't call him because I'm like, eh,
so shy, but he came over his rolls Royce and
his forty two speakers in it or whatever, and we
listened to music until five o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
We just hit it off, just boom like that.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But you know, Elson loves soccer, or we'd say football
for in Europe, boon antennis.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Those are his two favors.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I mean, he would loved him in like wimblin champion
all that, of course I love. I think every athlete
wants to be rock and roll star, and a lot
of rock and roll stars athletes. So it's a great,
wonderful common society.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
We're all together.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, it is divine order that you are one of
the recipients this year.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
You know, I'm interesting to know being a.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Trailblazer, being one of the firsts of something. I'm a
first of something, and I know sort of what it
feels like to kind of sit in this space of
having leadership sort of thrust upon you.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Well, that's true. You know, followers choose leaders. Leaders don't
choose followers.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, I've never heard that before, and yes, bingo. You know,
people ask me all the time like, well, how does
it feel? I hate that question. But the question that
I would prefer is, in all of the accomplishments and achievements.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
You've made, what would be one.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Of your proudest you know, sometimes you can't choose.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I don't really have one. Probably.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I think we're going to discuss legacy, probably, and legacy
is what other people think about us.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, well each one, every human being. Yeah, you know,
what are they leaving? What do they stand for?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
But really, I think the way I'm going to judge
myself anyway is what kind of contributions can I make
to this world?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Can make it a better world? Yes, and so it's
my I'm responsible.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I'm always wondering how can I contribute one more thing,
particularly before I leave this world because I'm any one
now for the younger generation, I feel great.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I'm still hitting.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Tennis balls is the reason I was still let you
earlier we were talking.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Tennis is the healthiest sport in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
They've done all kinds of research Mayo Clinic and everybody,
and you live almost ten years longer than average. So
we try to hit two to three times a week
at least, but we're so busy. But I think it's
contributions that one can make, like you give me contributions,
And I think we need to really work on inclusion.
I've always fought for girls of color to get them
(04:53):
in tennis and men, because we did. You know, when
I started tennis, it was so white. I had an
epiphany when I was twelve. It was at the La
Tennis Club. I'll never forget. I've been playing tennis one year.
I didn't know what tennis was really until someone said
you want to play? I said, what's tennis? And I
just looked around and I thought, you know, everybody whereas
(05:13):
all white. They play with white balls. Everybody's playing as white.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And I said to myself, where is everybody else? This
is ridiculous. You know, Like my dad loved Joe Lewis
for instance.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Later I love Muhammad Alihi and I would always talk
about how to pay attention because you never know how
another person's going to touch your life or how you're
going to touch their life.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So every human being should pay attention because relationships are everything.
They really are yourself with your loved ones, with community, whatever.
So it's really important. But I'm just big on thinking
about each and every one of us as a human
being first. You know, then we can get into color,
we can get into religion, we can get into other things.
(05:58):
But it's good to meet people that don't think like yourself, right,
and it's good to get I think it's good to
get out of the comfort zone, my comfort zon, out
of the bubble and get out of there and learn
about others because whether we like or not, we got
a lot of people on this earth and we need
to get along.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Bill you or not, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Rolling back to being a young lady in sports, breaking barriers,
breaking glass ceilings, what was the process, Well, the process of.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
You coming out, was there fear involved?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
No, there's a lot of fear.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Was scared of death because first of all, I wanted
to divorce my husband, Larry, who is adorable. I mean,
he's a great guy, and he didn't want to get divorced,
so that was a challenge. Then we started the Women's
Professional Tour. Professional tennis started in nineteen sixty eight. Okay,
so I was working very hard in getting tennis to
(06:55):
go to be a professional sport because if you're really no, well,
I wanted the men and women together, and the men
said no all the time.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So I would rather us be together.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Even today, I'm hoping before I'm out of here that
the men and women's associations will be together so they
said no back then, But then we started women's professional tennis,
and then we started a tour, and the tour told
me they knew things were happening behind the scenes, and
I was trying to fa who I am and what
my sexuality was, and I really wasn't clear, and they said, well,
(07:29):
if you say one word, we won't have a tour all.
That'll put the fear of God in me, which it did,
because it's not just about me now. Now it's about
the tour, which is global. By the way, it's not
just it's global. It's a lot a.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Lot of iteople and there's a lot of people. So
I kept quiet. In the meantime, I kept trying to
figure life out.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
And then in eighty one I was outed by somebody
had an affair with Marilyn Barnett, and I lost all
my endorsements in twenty four hours except one, but he
cut down the price a lot, and I just signed
new contracts.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I was thirty seven. I just signed new contracts.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So I was finally going to make some money because
the first generations we didn't make the money right.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
The Trailblazers were very offense.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
But everything we do is for the future generations so
they can live the dream like the players today, the
women athletes, doesn't matter what sport, they're living the dream
we had for them.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Now.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Is it still the way we want it? Absolutely not.
We're trying to make it bigger, better. But the point
is it's a lot better, tons better than it was,
and you want every generation to get better.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, so that's important.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So anyway, when I was out it, I had to
start over, and my PR people really wanted Larry and
I to stick together, so of course I listened because
I was beside myself. I just started going with Ilana
in seventy nine, so everybody said, you have to leave
because we don't want you to get in trouble. So
it was horrible. I would never you have to leave
where she had to go home to South Africa.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Oh, she a lot. I had to.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
You have to get out of here, you have to go. Okay,
everything's got to be clear. And that was wrong because
I should have just not done what my PR people
said in the first place. I went against my lawyer
and my PR person said you should never say admit this.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
You say it's private.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Absolutely not. I said, I'm going to tell the truth,
and they were the truth, and they I'll set you free,
you hope. So and so they were upset with me
because I wanted to do this, but I did it
and they did get behind it once I said we're going.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
To do this, and thank god you did so I basically.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Started over and I was in my forties. That's been
my journey and everything's worked out great. But it was
a difficult process. But I think everyone has difficult processes
they go through. I don't know what you went through,
but you came out at sixteen, didn't you.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
I came out at sixteen. You know.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Everybody told me that my gayness would be my liability,
you know, much put me out.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
My drama school.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Tried to beat it out of me. I went I
was Pentecostal. I grew in Pentecostal. And they in quotes
whoever they are, weren't entirely wrong for a long period
of time. You know, the first twenty twenty five years
of my career, it was liability. My queerness was a
liability until it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
It's not now, baby, it's not. When did it shift?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Do you think it shifted in me? First?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Just like you just said, true. You said, I'm going
to tell the truth. And I said, at thirty in
my thirties, early thirties, you know what it was? After
my first record deal imploded, R and B record deal
on an M Records, nineties.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
R and B very very straight, very homophobic. And I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Lying, but I just wasn't speaking, like like your lawyer said, yeah,
I wasn't know.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I just wasn't speaking.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
And that sort of felt fine at the time, and
then it didn't work anyway. So I had to forsaken
myself and did not get the reward that I was
promised for doing that. And I thought, I will never
fail as somebody else again. If I fail, I will
(11:24):
be failing as my full, authentic self. And I took
myself out of the masculinity game. And it didn't happen overnight,
but slowly but surely it was like, oh, well, you
love yourself enough. I loved myself enough. I loved myself
(11:44):
to life, and that's what we have to teach our
young people and remind our young people.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
But you have to be safe.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And so if someone says to me, well I want
to come out, I always say, make.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Sure you feel safe.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Safe yes.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And when you do come out, the question I would
ask is do you trust the people you're talking to?
Like I put the trust in the rest of the
world basically when I came out because I knew what
I was doing. You have to do it in good
faith almost just go for it because to your point,
you have to be your authentic self first. But there's
certain times people are not safe to come out, so
(12:20):
you have to ask yourself that first. I mean, who
am I talking to some young person in the United
States whose family's pretty good?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I talked to a mother the other day that has
a trans child and she's you can tell she's a
wonderful mother about this. She's encouraged her child to be
whoever they want to be, and that is major.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Trailblazers like Billy Jean King have made it easier to
be an out and proud athlete. That's because when she
came out in the eighties, she wasn't just thinking about
herself and living her own life authentically. She was also
thinking about all the LGBTQ plus athletes who would come
(13:11):
after her.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
We need to talk in the terms of we, not
me so much. I mean, there's no way we could
have changed tennis, for instance, if we all thought about me,
because nothing would have happened. And when things started to
happen is when we started thinking. You know, everything I
would talk about is we, like every single athlete were
(13:37):
a team.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
We are not. It's not about I or me, It's
about we.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Real change comes about when we think in terms of
I think we at least it did for me prely.
That's what I experienced and continue to experience. Like even
the Elton John Aids Foundation. When Elton came off of
being eating disorder, drugs, drinking everything. I remember, I'm going
through all that and it felt so bad for him,
but look what happened from that. He got a second
(14:04):
chance in life. Elton goes, you know what, I have
a second chance. I'm going to start the Elton John
Aids Foundation. When he started it in nineteen ninety two,
I remember seeing with him. He says, I've got to
do something with my life. He just knew he had
a second chance in life and he was not going
to blow it this time. He was going to make
it right and make it right for others. And age
is something he understood and with the community entering having
(14:25):
so many aids and from the eighties there was just ridiculous.
And so I really admired Elton for that because he
could have gotten better of it than what and with
his music and with the people that love him and
understand him and.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Love everything he does. But he just he just did it.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
And I don't think I don't know if people realize it,
but ELM's very competitive, which I and so I thought that,
I mean, I get.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
It, yeah, because yeah, absolutely, but I'll never forget.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Well, he wrote this song for me called Philadelphia Freedom, Yes,
and I remember saying, I want.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
To write a song for you to go what what?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I couldn't even I'm like, I didn't hear him, right,
you know, clean out the ears?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And he goes, no, no, no, what are you gonna
call it? What are we gonna call it?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Because his brain goes really fast, and I'm like, huh huh,
I'm just kidding over the idea. He goes, and I
played for a tennis team in Philadelphia Freedoms. He goes,
let's call it the Philadelphia Freedoms. And he knew I
liked the sound of Philadelphia and music as well. It's
one of the things I like Phi. Yeah, I do
like it. So anyway, what I love about this It
became number one, but it crossed. It's the first song
(15:31):
of his a crossover in R and B number one.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
It wasn't Benny and the Jets, that was Philadelphia Freedom
number one.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
He got so excited, you know, an he always twisted
his arm up and his forearm of course that farm
forearms like a panel. And I'm like, oh my god,
So you're so happy.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So Billy, your life has had many many twists and turns,
and you know, you became number one and changed tennis forever,
and you came out in your late thirties and then
paved the way for other athletes. With that said, what
advice would you give to young LGBTQ plus vote.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
This will go for anybody, but pticularly for our.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Community of the LGBTQ plus because let's face it, we're
a minority, and anytime you have smaller numbers, the others
are usually when just through power and votes and all
that stuff. So it's important we stick together, but also
to get allies, to get people to understand and want
(16:33):
to be in tune with us, and also to stand
up for us because we're really tiny as far as percentages,
But if I were trying to encourage young people to
do some things.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Ed Willard, he used.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
To be a mentor of Ilana's and mine. He was
CEO of DuPont, but he was what we loved is
his friendship. And I said to Ed one day, I
go ed, I'm always giving these commencement speeches.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I'm always giving you know, the kids are used probably
twenty two ish.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I said, I want to give them three bullets of
facts that maybe will help them with their lives. So
he and I took three years. We looked at inner success,
which means happiness, inner success, and out of success together,
like what are who are these people? What are the
traits in them? And we came up with these three things.
(17:22):
And they don't have to be in order. You are
the person who's listening. Now you decide what order they
should be in or when it matters. Relationships are everything,
which is my favorite one with yourself, with your loved ones,
with your higher up whatever. One of the other ones
is to keep learning and to keep learning how to learn.
(17:43):
We found people that are happy, They're always going for it.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
It's like me going back to school. Yeah, like I'm
going back to school. I'm gonna get my school.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
I love.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Just did you go back to I went back to
school in my thirties. I went to the screenwriting program
at US.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Isn't that great?
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yeah? You want to change my life forever? Apps and
you just every day I keep learning.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And the last one is to be a problem solver
and an innovator in your lifetime. If you just do
those three things, you'll be surprised that you go through
the day. I guarantee you one of those comes up.
They usually all three come up for me.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Sometimes you just as we move through life, we just
have to have the little reminders.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
You know. I do the stickers on the mirror and back.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
That's great. You know you look like an athlete.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
I do believe precious.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Privilege in the now. Don't give me the ball.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
We are athletes, those of us. Who are you? Are
your dancer doing Broadway shows eight times a week.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Athletic, Yes, especially the day of shows.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Me not for the it's not for the paint. And
everybody ain't able.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Especially if you're singing, dancing, doing really putting it out there. Yeah,
always thinking about you guys when I go to a show.
I get so mesched though to a fault. But then
I go I start thinking about your lives and how
much you have to practice and how much you rehearsal
and then you have to You've got to be in
the present or you don't win. I don't care what
(19:09):
your life is about, just remember those things. Stay in
the present. When you're present, that's when life said it's best.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
So we're here today because you are being honored with
the Elton John Impact Aboard.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
What an honor it is.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I mean, you know, with Elton having his name on
the Impact Award, but it's an honor to think that
I had an impact it all in the LGBT community.
But I'm always trying to help any way I can. Also,
I find talking with young people who have just come
out or thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
That's why I really.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Try to listen and listen really really hard, and then
try to help figure out what do they need now
and for the future, because they are the future for
our community. And I want our community to be safe,
and I want our community to be open. We need
al and I mean even our marriage is at stake
right now, and I cannot believe that.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I mean Lana and I got married. We've been together
forty five years, couldn't.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Get married when we wanted, and then we got married,
And I mean twenty eighteen. Anyway, I just want people
to be free and have the same rights. I want
everyone to have the same rights, to be good to
each other and have more empathy. But I think this
Elton John Impact Award, hopefully we'll encourage people to think
about our community and what can they do to impact it,
(20:29):
Because it's how we impact other people's lives, how we
contribute to them that matters. And so I think this
Elton John Impact Award puts a light and a focus
on the fact that everyone matters and everyone can help
make an impact.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
It's really really important.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Thanks for listening to the Elton John Impact Awards. Please
check out the extended interviews with our honorees and insightful
words from our beneficiary partners. The Elton John Impact Awards
is presented by iHeartRadio and Pong in partnership with the
Elton John Aids Foundation and Brandy.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Carlyle's Looking Out Foundation.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
A special thanks to our partners Bounty Cascade, Sharman, Don Downey, Fabreeze,
Panteen and Tide, who continue to support LGBTQ plus organizations
working in our community every day
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