May 15, 2026 • 40 mins
Amazon is everywhere, from your doorstep to outer space. So, what is the current state of the Everything Store? This week, Max and Stacey look at the company that is more utility than retailer with Bloomberg Businessweek editor-in-chief Brad Stone. Plus, have you wondered why the stock market has been doing so well even though lots of things don't seem to be going great at home or abroad? Author and economic commentator Kyla Scanlon explains why the record highs keep coming even as oil prices double and the job market is at a standstill. And: a special guest gives us an underrated story that makes the case for booing.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Stacy, this is kind of a personal question, but what
is your relationship with Amazon Prime?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
My relationship, Yeah, your relationship, it's complicated.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I see, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I am on the outs with Amazon Prime, mostly because
my wife canceled it and I am trying to make
do with Walmart Plus or whatever it's called. Okay, very
similar service. And these services are everywhere. They have become
a defining part of pretty much or many people's lives,
at least in the developed world. And we sent our
(00:42):
producer Miles J. Hersenhorn out into New York where there
are a lot of Amazon Prime shoppers, just to understand
what their prime habits were.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
This service has been around for something like twenty years.
How did they see it?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Do you have Amazon Prime? Yes? How often we say
you use Amazon.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Maybe like once every few weeks?
Speaker 6 (01:05):
Yes, quite often.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
Yeah, it's a couple of years. And what is the
last thing you purchased off of Amazon?
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Literally?
Speaker 6 (01:12):
We buy so many things every day, I mean every
single day.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I think just household essentials like.
Speaker 7 (01:20):
Soap, small things like I had a cable that I
had to buy.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
I think a phone case. Yeah, I'm pretty share a
phone case.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, maybe a dish rack, probably a pair of sneakers.
Speaker 8 (01:31):
I bought my watch off Amazon. I think that's the
last thing I bought.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
Yeah, what's your relationship to Amazon? I would say it's
a convenience, not dependent on it. Pretty good.
Speaker 6 (01:41):
Yeah, think in my packages on time, pretty fast shipping,
and they have everything I need on there.
Speaker 8 (01:49):
I mean, I like the convenience of the company itself,
and I've had Prime for a while, and I use
the video, but we'll troubled about the management.
Speaker 9 (01:58):
To be honest, they provide a good service, but they're
also a massive corporation, so there's trade offs.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
I'm unsure because.
Speaker 7 (02:07):
Since COVID, people have been using its way too much,
I think, and it's making local business fail.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
I think.
Speaker 6 (02:15):
It saves time. Time is the scarcest resource. We can't
buy it with more money, and it saves time, so
we use it more and more.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
As we moved forward here.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So a lot of usage of Amazon stacy, but missed feelings.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well yeah, yeah, I mean, but most people seem to
be using it for all kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
What they're not talking about, but they are using it
for is AI and cloud computing, it's a huge part
of Amazon's business, and Bradstone will be joining us later.
We're a whole story for Bloomberg BusinessWeek about this kind
of new version of Amazon and where it's going.
Speaker 9 (02:57):
How do you frame Amazon today? It's so many disc things,
and we write it's a corporate turduck.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
In turnucans are always funny.
Speaker 9 (03:05):
It's an ad business, a logistics company stuffed inside an
e commerce marketplace, trust to a cloud computing powerhouse, garnished
with Alexa, Whole Foods and Prime Video.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Amazon, of course, one of the big magnificent seven stocks,
has been having a pretty great year, had a great
last year, and in spite of all the things that
have happened, the markets have been going up. Amazon right
along with them. And we have Kyla Scanlon to talk
about why the markets keep relentlessly marching skyward even though
the economy has taken some major blows.
Speaker 10 (03:38):
It's not a good or bad thing. It's just like
the worry that the market is not properly understanding what's happening.
And then that puts four to one k's at risk,
that puts retirese at risk, that puts the stability of
the entirely American experiment at risk.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
So that's that's the concern.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
This is everybody's business.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I'm a next chef and I'm Stacey Mannocksmith.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
The behemoth that is Amazon coming up.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
After the brink.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Stacy, I was given you a hard time earlier about
your Amazon Prime.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Are you giving me a hard time about my Amazon Prime?
Speaker 4 (04:21):
But the truth is you are really in the majority.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I'm not going to a niche minority.
Speaker 11 (04:26):
No.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Amazon Prime is very popular.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
In fact, a third party survey published in December by
the Consumer Intelligence Research Partners of trying to estimate the
number of Prime subscribers put it at around two hundred million.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
So lots of US, lots of us in the glories.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Well, I think it's become normalized. I feel like there's
an expectation that's developed of things getting shipped, of not
paying for shipping, and then things arriving in two days.
And when I do order things off of other websites,
even though on one level I feel better about myself,
sometimes on another level it is hard to pay a
twenty or ten or twenty dollars shipping fee.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And hard once we spend so much time with a
company like Amazon to quit it and we have someone
right here, right now in the studios who has been
thinking about this and other big questions. BusinessWeek editor Brad Stone.
He's also the author of two books on Amazon, The
Everything Store and Amazon Unbound. What even is Amazon at
this point? I mean, I think most people think of
(05:27):
it as a store, an everything store, if.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
You will, Max.
Speaker 9 (05:31):
There's one line from the story I wrote with Matt
Day that I'm particularly proud of because we thought about this,
how do you frame Amazon today? It's so many disparate things,
and we write it's a corporate urduck.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
In turnucins are always funny.
Speaker 9 (05:44):
It's an ad business, a logistics company stuffed inside an
e commerce marketplace, trust to a cloud, computing powerhosts, garnished
with Alexa, Whole Foods and Prime Video. So in a way,
it's not as easily described as an everything store.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
You talk about in your article that they're making this
big move into AI, that they've made just this huge bet,
and that their goal with AI is not just AI.
I feel like a lot of companies are everybody's even
shoe companies are getting into AI. But you make the
point that they want to be the Amazon of AI.
What does that mean, well.
Speaker 9 (06:16):
First of all, Amazon has a lot to lose, right
AWS is the market leader in cloud computing. It's got
something like what thirty five or forty percent market share.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Explain what that is.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I think people sort of know what cloud computing is.
But when you say AWS, Amazon Web Services.
Speaker 9 (06:31):
This is companies, organizations, governments renting their computing capacity, running
their applications on the servers of what we call in
the industry like the big hyperscalers. That's Amazon primarily with
the majority of market share, but also Google and Microsoft
in this new wave of AI, where the potential is
(06:54):
to kind of supercharge your operations with AI, Microsoft and
Google have started to make up a lot. They have
booked a lot more future business. They each early on
invested in the leading AI companies, Microsoft in open AI,
Google very early on in Anthropic And there was the
perception internally and externally that Amazon was caught flat footed.
(07:15):
And here on the fifth anniversary of Andy Jasse's tenure
as CEO, taking over from Jeff Bezos, we are looking
at his playbook and how he's.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Been trying to catch up, and he has largely caught up.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
In a lot of ways, Amazon was behind on AI
like this trend caught them by surprise in a sense
because they do not have one of the leading large
language models. On the other hand, they were very early
in a bunch of things that are kind of AI adjacent,
data centers being one of them, Alexa this kind of
a proto chatbot being another, and even like the Amazon
(07:50):
ghost store that has now been shut down. Like they
had some sense that this was going to be a thing,
but they didn't quite play it right.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
How have they turned it around? No, I think it's true.
Speaker 9 (08:01):
I mean, Jeff was pushing machine learning tools inside the
company for more than a decade. I think that there
was an opportunity for them to invest earlier than they
did in anthropic maybe even open AI. But they've turned
it around by running the Amazon playbook. So they produce
chips to compete with in videos AI processors, and the
(08:21):
selling point for those is that they're a little bit
more cost effective. Come to Amazon, run the models, save
a little bit of money, or do it more efficiently.
The other thing is you go to Amazon's Bedrock service,
which is how you'd run your AI applications if you're
an AWS customer, and I kind of compare it to
a sort of a diner's menu of options. People want
to run their AI where their data is and where
(08:43):
their applications are, so depending on their customers and their
market share and the hassle or the inconvenience of moving
off that to basically solidify their position.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
So is Amazon's AI basically just a business to business?
Is it like a B to b AI? Or will
costs like Prime members experience it too?
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I mean, this is Amazon, right, so it's always everything.
So they've done a couple of things.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
The answer is yes.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
The answer is always yes.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
This is maybe a good time to broad the conversation
to AI in general. This is the kind of cover
story of a series of stories that are in the
same issue, all about AI and kind of what it's
going to take to take AI to the next level.
Stacy has a story, and I've got a story in it.
And I think, Stacey, I thought of your story, which
(09:30):
is about AI and productivity and the question of what
it means for productivity, and it made me wonder, And
I think there is a big question hanging over this
whole AI revolution, which is like when.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Are the productivity gains going to come? And are they
going to come. Are are we sure they're going to come?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I mean to me, that's a really interesting question about
AI is that there's all this promise, all this excitement.
Our economy in a lot of ways is kind of
counting on it. But there is always a gap with
new technology between when the technology is introduced and adopt
and when it actually causes the economy to grow. And
there's also a gap with jobs, which I think is
(10:06):
scaring everybody where. It's a lot of jobs get lost
sometimes because of a new technology, and then eventually economists
will always say, but new jobs come, But there's a
gap there too. But one interesting thing about Amazon is
a lot of companies are grappling with this, like they
have to make a huge investment. A is not cheap,
so they have to make a big investment and the
payoff might not come for a while. But I'm wondering
(10:28):
if that matters to Amazon or if Amazon can just
weather the storm, whereas a lot of smaller companies might
be a little more locked out.
Speaker 9 (10:37):
There is almost no way for these large tech companies
to lose, right.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
They are the beneficiaries of so much so chilling.
Speaker 9 (10:45):
Yeah, there's so much experimentation that's happening such an industry wide,
business wide commitment to trying out these AI tools. Amazon's
also building these data centers. That's two hundred billion dollar
investment in cap access here. That momentary alarmed investors, and
then they kind of came back and they fund most
of that with their own balance sheet, So they're not
(11:05):
doing the kind of risky lending that maybe some of
the smaller competitors are. The big risk for Amazon is
that for the original part of its business, for still
the largest part of its business, the e commerce company,
that people start shopping within chat ept or clawd, that
top of the funnel changes, and these chatbots seem to
customers to be like a far superior experience and the
(11:28):
currently ad riddled search results you would get in searching
on Amazon. And so in some ways rufus maybe you know,
doesn't have to solve all of our problems as shoppers,
but it does have to be kind of part of
the Amazon moat and a reason if these shopping agents
do take off, that people are compelled to stick with Amazon.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
So much of this just feels very slippery to me.
I mean, we don't.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
The like prousness wise or politically everything. The productivity gains
have not come. The question of job losses is very
much open. I mean, you have companies saying they're laying
people off with AI because of AI, but it's not
totally clear. That's the reason. You know, the concept that
we've talked about AI washing or whatever. And you also
(12:11):
have including some of these technologists saying now being aware
that it's maybe a bad look to talk about laying
people off with because of technology, are now saying, oh no, no,
AI is actually going to create lots of jobs. So
like there's all this the messaging is kind of confused.
I do think there's risk to Amazon. The story that
I wrote in this issue is about ro Kanna, who's
(12:32):
a congressman from Silicon Valley. I thought of him as
basically the most pro tech member of Congress there was.
He was out there talking about how great Crypto was
when Crypto.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Was controversially a lot of pain money.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Constituents are technologists and he is, And what my story
is about is how he's basically turned against the industry.
And I think he's doing it because he's trying to
run for president, and also because many people in the
United States are turning against this stuff, these data centers,
and I think this is going to be a risk
for Amazon. I think Amazon has a risk of going
(13:07):
through something similar to what Tesla went through, where maybe
in a less pronounced way, just because Jeff Bezos and
the company is not seen as polarizing as Elon Musk is.
But I don't know, like you even hear it in
the tape we played. People have ambivalent feelings.
Speaker 9 (13:20):
I agree with that, but I also think we should
note that a billion people are using chat GBT every
WEEKAWS just hit its fastest growth rate in like several years.
People are understandably nervous and maybe ambivalent about AI at
the same time as another set of numbers showed that
they're doing everything they can preferences yeah, to experiment with it,
(13:43):
to integrate it into their own lives. And I'm sure
Andy jasse is looking at the numbers. He told us
that Alexa use has doubled since they rolled out Alexa plus.
They seem very optimistic about rufus that, yeah, maybe despite
the political sentiment that the nervousness, people are embracing these tools.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
It'll be interesting watching this out over the next couple
of years. We get an election in twenty eight and
there's going to be opportunities for customers to make their voices.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I mean, it's a huge issue. There are tons of protests,
like in the West Utah there, you know, there's a
forty thousand acre data center going in and like just
protests have erupted. People in places with lots of space
and not a lot of political power are really upset.
But there may be some victories. I just I guess
(14:28):
I'm skeptical because of the juggernaut that is AI, that
it will stop.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
We will continue covering this, We will continue watching this.
Brad'll be back to update us on the next turn
of the Yes, please the screw in tech and in
all the quarters of power, Bradstone, thanks for being here.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Thank you guys.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Of course, Max companies like Amazon have been a major
part of the economic boom that we have been seeing,
a lot of that economic boom being fueled by AI,
or at least hopes about AI, and the stock market
for the last couple of years has just been on
a tear, going gangbusters.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, And it's kind of strange because we've been talking
on this show all along about the kind of difficult
news that the economy is confronting. Obviously, there's potential questions
about AI. There's also the war in Iran oil. The
price of oil has doubled consumer sentiment. It's not great
stacy and the Fed, even the Fed, the interest rates
(15:32):
are not getting cut.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, we got some not awesome inflation numbers out this week.
And the price of everything has been going up pretty
fast and doesn't look to be slowing down anytime soon.
And there was a really interesting article that we came
across from our friend of the show, Kyla Scanlon, about
why this might be and what we should think about it.
Kyla is the best selling author of In This Economy.
(15:56):
She joins us Now, welcome Kyla, I thanks for having me. Okay,
So the question, there are a lot of reasons why
it seems like the market should not be on the
tear they're on. What is going on? Why are they
so exuberant? I mean, it's a it's a good question.
Like part of it is earning.
Speaker 10 (16:10):
So like a lot of what's happening with the stock
market right now is the companies are making a lot
of money, Like the AI trade is really working out.
But like what you said about energy prices also really
matters because that puts a lot of pressure on in
companies historically. I mean, sometimes it doesn't, but the companies
in the stocks are kind of shrugging everything off, it seems.
(16:31):
And there's this implicit assumption that AI will continue to
carry the economy forward, that the data center build out
will continue to happen, that the grid can support all
of the data centers that are being built, the companies
are going to adopt all of the AI, and that
will carry the stock market because the AI companies are
such a big component of the S and P five
hundred that, Yeah, it just seems like nothing can slow
(16:53):
it down.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
The challenges that you're referring to, like we should just
spell them out. So I guess the big one is
that Trump started a war with Ran and the trade
of horror moves has been closed as we're recording this
for six weeks.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I guess something like that more than.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, and probably like more importantly shows no sign of reopening.
And and that is causing fuel crisis crises and countries
around the world.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
There's like and on top of that, it creates inflation. House.
There's that that's happening.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I mean, what are the other big economic challenges that that,
in your mind, should be the stock mark should be
responding to, besides fuel prices.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
I mean, I think it's just the uncertainty of it all.
Speaker 10 (17:38):
Like I for businesses right now, like we don't even
talk about tariffs anymore, but like that's still a thing
that companies are having to deal with. The higher health
insurance costs have led a lot of companies to pull
back on hiring spin So I think it's just kind
of like the general environment you would think would put
a lot of pressure on companies. You would think that
what's happening with the federal reserves, sort of the question
(18:00):
around independence would cause the stock market to sell off
a little bit, But it doesn't seem to care at all.
You would think that the political path that we're on,
where we're you know, sort of objectively kind of fighting
with our allies would upset the stock market a little bit,
but it doesn't seem to care. Like, it doesn't seem
to worry about the fact that a lot of what
(18:20):
our trade relationships are are you know, requiring our friends
to continue to exist, to have those friendships continue to
be fruitful, not putting tariffs on other countries. So I mean,
it's just it's kind of everything. You would expect the
stock market to go down, but maybe it's because everything
is so crazy that it just goes up.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Well, also, interest rates, that's normally something the market really
responds to. With interest rates aren't cut, you know, that
can really slow the economy down. It makes borrowing more expensive,
which can mean businesses and people borrow less and spend less.
But that even that hasn't dampened the markets. Nothing, nothing else,
So what what do you think is going on?
Speaker 10 (18:57):
So in this New York Times opinion piece that I wrote,
I theorized that the markets expect to get rescued. So
like every time something goes bad, you know, the stock
market gets rescued by the Federal Reserve, and this is
something the Fed has to do. I think it makes
a lot of sense, it's very rational. But Greenspan did it,
or Ninki did it. Powell did it during the pandemic.
(19:19):
Because when you raise interest rates, as you were saying,
like people spend less money, you know, the money's more expensive,
people slow the economy down. So then ultimately hopefully inflation
goes down. As sort of like the mechanism that interest
rates move throughout the economy. And so if the stock
market or the economy rather it needs more support, the
Federal Reserve will lower interest rates, money gets more free,
(19:42):
everything's a little easier. But the stock market now expects
that rescue mechanism to take place, like it's been saved
for you know, I guess is that like forty years, right.
It seems like that is part of the reason that
it refuses to go down is because they know that
it doesn't have to.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, and we have a new kind of mechanism, which
is taco or just this sense. Yeah, Donald Trump cares
a lot about the stock.
Speaker 10 (20:11):
Market, but yeah, the market, just the taco stuff only
works to a certain extent. Like you can only move
things forward by narrative so much. And like with the tariffs,
it was kind of fine because you could pretend that
you were taking them on and taking them off and
you could push it out. But when you enter a war,
you can't really be like never mind. And so I
(20:31):
think that's the issue that markets are wrapping their head around.
So with this expectation of rescue. But yeah, it doesn't
seem like the street's going to open anytime soon. It
seems like it opens potentially right before Future is open
on Sunday nights. I think we get like a little
hint to that it could open, and then it closes
again Monday morning.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
So let's say you know the markets think okay, well,
Trump is watching the markets. He's going to respond to this.
He's not going to let things get really bad and
if they do, we'll get bailed out. What is bad
about that? Because, as Max said, like having the markets
be high is a good thing. It companies make more money,
they tend to expand higher. Like this seems not so bad.
Speaker 10 (21:13):
I mean, I guess it just depends on your thoughts
around if it's real, like a lot of the company's
earnings are profitability is up. But you don't want a
market that is so detached from fundamentals when it comes
time for like fundamentals to really matter. So I think
the worry is that the market is not pricing risk properly,
(21:35):
Like it doesn't seem very aware that there's this like
very big thing happening that it should have more of
a concept around rather than betting that this AI trade,
which is reliant on the strait of Hormuz being open,
that that'll just carry us all through. So I think
it's like it's not a good or bad thing. It's
just like the worry that the market is not properly
understanding what's happening. And then that puts four one k's
(21:56):
at risk, that puts retirees at risk, That puts the
stability of the entire American experiment at risk. So that's
the concern. Yeah, that's very dramatic. But like, we socialize
retirement in the United States through the stock market, and
we have an aging population. One in five Americans are
going to be over the age of sixty five by
twenty thirty, and we don't really have a plan for
(22:18):
like what is going to happen, And so that's my
concern is that we're going to have an aging population
that is not going to be able to retire because
the stock market is not properly understanding the risk that
it is before it.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
What about a bailout. I mean, let's say the stock
market does not understand the risk properly, Like, why can't
a bailout happen?
Speaker 10 (22:36):
That's like the rescue mechanism, right, Yeah, so it could happen,
but then that puts the US government even more extreme
in the debt situation. I think debt to GDP just
passed like one hundred percent. There's a chart from the
Wallsty Journal. You don't want a situation where you're always
having to finance a way out of a crisis, because
that puts more pressure on the US government. That puts
(22:56):
more pressure on Social Security and Medicare. Like, the government
can only spend money on some things. So if all
of a sudden it has you know, both the Federal
Reserve and the US government. If fiscal policy came in
and saved the stock market, a lot of pressure on
the government. If montey policy has to come in and
save the stock market, a lot of pressure on indust rates.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
This this idea that AI is the last hope for
this economy, I find this very concerning.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
As somebody's followed the AI.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Very serious AI skeptic.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Well, I mean, I do hope that the AI can
save us all and will continue. But you know, we
have yet to see big productivity gains from any of
this stuff. The history of productivity gains from other technology
suggests it could take a really long time for it.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
To show up.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
So it feels like there is going to be at
some point a sort of reckoning around AI, and just
because asset prices are so high, and because we have
yet to see a lot of like a lot to
show for all this investment, and because there's a big
political backlash that it appears to be.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Brewing that the data center.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, that would also put and so what would an
AI bailout look like to your mind? I mean, you
brought up some of the things in this Times op
ed some of the things that the Trump administraty sort
of already doing.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Yeah, what what would that look like an AI bailout?
Speaker 10 (24:16):
Yeah, So my colleague got the Vanderbilt Policy Accelerator. He
wrote this incredible paper called After the AI Crash where
he goes into this and great detail. Is an excellent paper,
Highly recommend people read it. But he has all of
these policy ideas prepared for, like what it could happen,
what could we do to respond to an AI crash happening?
And a lot of it is sort of separating things,
(24:38):
so like separating the al labs and the data centers
Glass stekl for AI having maybe a public data center
so the public.
Speaker 12 (24:45):
Can regulation government regular so much regulation because we're doing
the same thing that we did with social media where
we're like let it ride and like let's see what happens,
and it's a crazy, crazy experiment.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I have one other question.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Maybe the market is just right, like a lot of
smart people and you know, corporate profits are high, Like hey,
like you know this is you guys are just doom saying,
what's your kind of response, Like, maybe the market's right.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
It might be.
Speaker 10 (25:11):
I mean, yeah, sure, but I think that if you
just sort of look at the reality of what is
happening in terms of the underpricing of the risk, like
a lot of it doesn't make sense. And so I
think if you look at the metrics and you look
at the numbers, you can certainly point to the companies
making a bunch of money and like the AI company
is spending a ton of money, and like that's obviously
(25:32):
you're going to bring some money in. But I think
if you like dive just a little bit deeper into
the other companies and that's some pop five hundred that
are not in the AI trade, you started to see
where some of the cracks are forming.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Is Trump going to be like it's your patriotic duty
to use chat apt for like eight hours a day.
Speaker 10 (25:47):
I'm just trying to imagine he'll have his own AI model.
I do think there will be a Trump branded AI model.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It is Honestly, the more we talk about this is
the more shockdand that there isn't Trump companies and family
business very good at like at sniffing out where the
hot trend is.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
It's a big deal, you would.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Think, Donald Junior, write us, let us know. We could
probably send you some others. Right, everybody's a bloomber done net.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yes, indeed, so Kyler, like what are you watching right now?
What are the tells that you're watching? Kyla? I don't
even know anymore. I mean, like there are no Canaris.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
It's good, Like I'm happy that I don't want to
tell yes, like I write, like, I just think it's
important to be like, hey, there's a huge risk thing
that like maybe the stock market isn't pricing in and
considering our demographic issue in terms of an aging population,
we should really be paying attention to, like how the
stock market is pricing risk to make sure that people
can retire properly, because that's the way we retire people.
(26:48):
So like that's why I keep harpening on this this problem.
But I like the economy is astoundingly resilient.
Speaker 10 (26:55):
It is. Yeah, I mean that's interesting though, because like
the little treat economy is fascinating where there's a really
interesting research peaper that came out in November twenty twenty
five talking about the perception of housing affordability and if
people feel like they can't afford a home, they're more
likely to take riskier investment decisions and more likely to
gamble in prediction markets or sports betting, and then they're
(27:16):
more likely to indulge in kind of like these little
one off things, like spend a bit more money on
the little treats because.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
They're not saving for anything.
Speaker 10 (27:24):
Yeah, because they're like, I'm never going to afford a house,
and that's kind of where I'm at, Like, I don't
really know how I like it, just to feel so
out of reach, and I think a lot of people
are in that boat.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And you're just like, Okay, sure, I'll get the nines
like the Yolo economy.
Speaker 10 (27:37):
Right, totally, totally.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Well, Kylo, you will have to come back as this
thing shakes out and help us navigate through these crazy times.
But thank you for joining us, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
All right, Stacey. We have a special guest for today's
Underrated Story. But first I need to share this email
that we got in the Everybody's business mailbox Everybody's.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
From Kyle about tickets. Remember we had asked.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
This was a couple of weeks ago, and we've been
sitting on this because things got busy or whatever. Sorry Kyle,
but the email is so funny because we had asked,
what's the most you've ever spent on tickets? You know,
we talked about I forget what I said, a few
hundred bucks, and Kyle took us on a journey from
the most he had ever spent had been twenty five
dollars to go to the Van's Warped tour in the
(28:30):
early two thousands to then he went and he bought
tickets on the early side to an Era's tour show
in Arizona to Taylor Swich dollars.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Yeah, so that was the.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Like a pretty good deal, Kyle.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
I would agree with you because you will hear what
happens next.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Then he was so into it that they went to
another show one thousand dollars each in southern California, then
Taylor also a Taylor Swish show. Then at the end
of the US leg they went again thirteen hundred dollars
a ticket.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Then how big is the family European leg?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
This is mostly him and his wife, although there's some
friends and family thrown in there as well. Then they
went on the European leg of the tour twenty four
hundred dollars per ticket.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
And still tweeler swift. They were like still they were
like deadheads, but they were following.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Thirty six one hundred dollars. That's the most he has
spent on a concert ticket. Now, that was the Vancouver
Eras tour. That was the end of the RAS tour.
He wanted to see the ending. Kyle, I, first of all,
I thank you for this email. It is an awesome email.
It really shows you how concert tickets have gotten more expensive, certainly,
but also the way that that fandom can just draw
(29:41):
you in.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
It does show I mean, one of the big things
that is very important to millennials, especially post pandemic. One
of the things that's been the big shift in spending
has been people buying fewer goods and buying more services.
People want experiences. Younger people don't want stuff, they want experiences,
and I do feel like this speaks to the fact
(30:05):
that the experience of seeing Taylor Swift and concert apparently
so powerful. You travel the country and the other world
and shell out thousands to see the same songs and
outfit changes because there is something so powerful in the experience.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
All right, Kyle, thank you for the email. Listeners, please
write to us. Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Shake it off, Stacy. Normally the underrated portion of the
show when we get here, it's just you and me.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
This is true.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
We have a special guest with us right here, Sean WN,
Bloomberg reporter, joining us to help with the underrated segment.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Hey Sean, thank you, pleasure to be here. Now. Sean
has a new show.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
She is the host the reporter of Foundering The Killing
of Bob Lee, which is an excellent, excellent show about
this murder in San Francisco. It gets to all these
issues on what kind of drew you did this story.
Speaker 13 (31:02):
I think I was drawn to it because I liked
that there were a lot of different things going on.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
It was a.
Speaker 13 (31:08):
Story where every time you thought it was about one thing,
it ended up being about something else.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
And describe. I feel like everybody saw the headlines, but
it's there have been a lot of headlines. So briefly
sum up the story because I think most people will
remember it. Sure.
Speaker 13 (31:25):
So, three years ago in San Francisco, which is where
I live, a tech executive was found stab to death
on the street. And this was during a super sensitive
time for the city. San Francisco was slow to recover
from the pandemic. Downtown was hollowed out, and there was
a widespread fear of crime, which led to the recall
of our progressive district attorney. And so then you had
(31:49):
this very grisly, very mysterious seeming death, and it set
off a wave of online fury. There were rumors, there
were speculation, and some big names in the tech industry
weighed in. You had David Sachs who was saying that
he bet dollars to dimes that Bob Lee was stabbed
by a psychotic, homeless person. And then you had Ela
(32:12):
Musk disparaging the New DA.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
So, Sean, we have a clip of your show to
play and set us up a little bit. What are
we about to hear?
Speaker 13 (32:20):
So the irony of all of the rumors and speculation
was that a Boble's actual killer was someone he knew
and b that the police had their suspect almost immediately.
They waited nine days to Restnema MOMENTI because they wanted
to build a stronger case. But in those nine days
(32:41):
they were actually following him around and they got this
incredible piece of footage. The prosecution wanted the jury to
pay attention to Nima's behavior after the stabbing, and for
this they introduced new evidence, a video of Nima made
six days after Bob was killed, but before Nima was
arrested Ohmed to lie. The lead prosecutor was at the
(33:05):
police station when he saw it for the first time.
Speaker 7 (33:08):
I remember Sergeant Goff calling saying, Hey, I'm headed back
from South Bay. You gotta see this.
Speaker 13 (33:17):
Sergeant David Goff is an undercover cop who had been
following Nima since the day after Bob was killed. GoF
had recorded something he wanted to show the prosecutors, and.
Speaker 7 (33:27):
He wouldn't even really explain it to us. He just
wanted us to see it. The homicide inspectors do not
have these fancy offices. They're all kind of in cubes,
cubicles next to each other. So we were standing and
Sergeant Goff put in the video and we just press
play and you kind of I think a couple times
(33:48):
says he said, just wait, just wait, like just just
wait for it. Wait for it.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Also, Stacey, there's a little easter egg. People should check
this out.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Foundering and Killing a subscribe listen to it is the usering.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
That you're in with. Unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, so you know it'll it's but anyway, it's really
worth your time and you should check it out and
let us know what you think.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Sean, you have an underrated story.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
That podcast, i'd say is fairly rated, rated, highly busy,
especially one of.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
The episodes you hear is quite excellent.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
But we have an underrated story as well. Sean Grace
us with the underrated story.
Speaker 13 (34:28):
Okay, my underrated story of the week is the University
of Central Florida students who are graduating twenty twenty six
booing their commencement speaker, a woman named Gloria Caulfield.
Speaker 11 (34:41):
Change is exciting, very exciting, and let's face it, change
can be daunting. The rise of artificial intelligence is the
next industrial revolution? WHOA what happened? Okay? I struck a chord?
(35:12):
May I finish only a few years ago? AI was
not a factor in our lives. Okay, all right, Okay,
(35:38):
we've got a bipolar topic here. I see.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Okay, Sean, such a good choice.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
We were just talking about on the segment before you
joined us with Bradstone, about the backlash to AI, and wow,
you really hear it in that audio.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
I mean to me, the thing that's most surprising about
this is it's.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Not Berkeley, it's not the New School or something. It's
the University of Central Florida. It's a big state college
in the middle of Florida.
Speaker 13 (36:07):
Yes, and also just the very idea of a commencement address.
Right that you're graduating school. You've been schooled your whole life,
and you're about to go into the world. Your university
has invited someone who's older, wiser and successful to give
you life advice. But the thing is, there are some
big generational changes that have really upset the natural order
(36:31):
of this. So I'm a millennial, I'm a geriatric millennial.
And one of the defining things about our generation is
that a lot of the advice that we've received from
our parents' generation baby Boomers were a lot of advice
was irrelevant as we were coming of age they grew
up during a time without crushing student loans, when owning
(36:56):
a house was more achievable, when upwards social mobility was assumed.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
For this generation of kids.
Speaker 13 (37:04):
You have a whole generation that was sold on the
idea that learning to code would be their golden ticket.
And one of the first changes that we see from
AI is the decimation of entry level computer programming jobs.
And so graduating students are contending already with the effects
of AI in a very real way, and in a
(37:26):
very negative way.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
I would say that I saw that a little differently
because she calls it an industrial revolution, and I don't
think of the industrial revolution as this totally positive thing,
like it was pretty brutal.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
But that's what's so crazy about the clip.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
She's saying what basically what every business person in the
world thinks is conventional wisdom, and then is being booed,
and then is surprised she didn't realize that these kids
might not like AI.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And I looked at the unemployment numbers for people under
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Totally, and I read these and I read like the
story that Brad just wrote about Andy Chassi, and read
lines from executives basically saying very similar things, and it
does feel like there's a whole, big part of the
world that they may not be listening to.
Speaker 13 (38:13):
And I also think that what's satisfying about the clip
is that the way the AI is presented to us
is so top down right. Big tech companies are talking
about AGI, a superhuman, super powerful intelligence that's going to
transform our society.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
And steal our banking passwords exactly exactly.
Speaker 13 (38:33):
And to see young people, a groundswell of young people booing,
that's something that AI can't replace.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
We can still boo.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
As a Mets fan, booing is very satisfying. Let me
tell you anything. There is nothing like a good boo
to get your feelings out in a public place. So
I really relate to those University of Central Florida students.
Although I've never bowed AI, I've only booed underperforming members.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Only is New York Mets. Wait, you boo your people.
Speaker 13 (39:05):
I assume you would boo the other team.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, poo the other team as well, But sometimes you
have no choice but to boo your ow team. The
show is called Foundering The Killing of Bob Lee. It
is available on Bloomberg dot Com. We'll put a link
in the show notes and wherever you get podcast.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
Sean Wen, thanks for being here, Thanks so much.
Speaker 5 (39:20):
For having me.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Thanks Im.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
This show is produced by Jasmine J. T. Green, Stacey Wong,
and Miles J. Hersenhorn. Mangus Hendrickson is our supervising producer.
Sam Rogich handles engineering, and They Purcell fact checks. Special
thanks to Jeff Muscus, Julia Rubin and Maria Lingk. If
you have a minute, please rate and review the show.
It means a lot to us. And if you have
a story that should be our business. If you want
to confess to some out of control spending, email us
(39:50):
at Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net. That's everybody with an
ass at Bloomberg dot net. Thank you for listening and
we'll see you next week.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Stacy, this is kind of a personal question, but what
is your relationship with Amazon Prime?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
My relationship, Yeah, your relationship, it's complicated.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I see, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I am on the outs with Amazon Prime, mostly because
my wife canceled it and I am trying to make
do with Walmart Plus or whatever it's called. Okay, very
similar service. And these services are everywhere. They have become
a defining part of pretty much or many people's lives,
at least in the developed world. And we sent our
(00:42):
producer Miles J. Hersenhorn out into New York where there
are a lot of Amazon Prime shoppers, just to understand
what their prime habits were.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
This service has been around for something like twenty years.
How did they see it?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Do you have Amazon Prime? Yes? How often we say
you use Amazon.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Maybe like once every few weeks?
Speaker 6 (01:05):
Yes, quite often.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
Yeah, it's a couple of years. And what is the
last thing you purchased off of Amazon?
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Literally?
Speaker 6 (01:12):
We buy so many things every day, I mean every
single day.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I think just household essentials like.
Speaker 7 (01:20):
Soap, small things like I had a cable that I
had to buy.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
I think a phone case. Yeah, I'm pretty share a
phone case.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, maybe a dish rack, probably a pair of sneakers.
Speaker 8 (01:31):
I bought my watch off Amazon. I think that's the
last thing I bought.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
Yeah, what's your relationship to Amazon? I would say it's
a convenience, not dependent on it. Pretty good.
Speaker 6 (01:41):
Yeah, think in my packages on time, pretty fast shipping,
and they have everything I need on there.
Speaker 8 (01:49):
I mean, I like the convenience of the company itself,
and I've had Prime for a while, and I use
the video, but we'll troubled about the management.
Speaker 9 (01:58):
To be honest, they provide a good service, but they're
also a massive corporation, so there's trade offs.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
I'm unsure because.
Speaker 7 (02:07):
Since COVID, people have been using its way too much,
I think, and it's making local business fail.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
I think.
Speaker 6 (02:15):
It saves time. Time is the scarcest resource. We can't
buy it with more money, and it saves time, so
we use it more and more.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
As we moved forward here.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So a lot of usage of Amazon stacy, but missed feelings.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well yeah, yeah, I mean, but most people seem to
be using it for all kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
What they're not talking about, but they are using it
for is AI and cloud computing, it's a huge part
of Amazon's business, and Bradstone will be joining us later.
We're a whole story for Bloomberg BusinessWeek about this kind
of new version of Amazon and where it's going.
Speaker 9 (02:57):
How do you frame Amazon today? It's so many disc things,
and we write it's a corporate turduck.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
In turnucans are always funny.
Speaker 9 (03:05):
It's an ad business, a logistics company stuffed inside an
e commerce marketplace, trust to a cloud computing powerhouse, garnished
with Alexa, Whole Foods and Prime Video.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Amazon, of course, one of the big magnificent seven stocks,
has been having a pretty great year, had a great
last year, and in spite of all the things that
have happened, the markets have been going up. Amazon right
along with them. And we have Kyla Scanlon to talk
about why the markets keep relentlessly marching skyward even though
the economy has taken some major blows.
Speaker 10 (03:38):
It's not a good or bad thing. It's just like
the worry that the market is not properly understanding what's happening.
And then that puts four to one k's at risk,
that puts retirese at risk, that puts the stability of
the entirely American experiment at risk.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
So that's that's the concern.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
This is everybody's business.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I'm a next chef and I'm Stacey Mannocksmith.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
The behemoth that is Amazon coming up.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
After the brink.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Stacy, I was given you a hard time earlier about
your Amazon Prime.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Are you giving me a hard time about my Amazon Prime?
Speaker 4 (04:21):
But the truth is you are really in the majority.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I'm not going to a niche minority.
Speaker 11 (04:26):
No.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Amazon Prime is very popular.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
In fact, a third party survey published in December by
the Consumer Intelligence Research Partners of trying to estimate the
number of Prime subscribers put it at around two hundred million.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
So lots of US, lots of us in the glories.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Well, I think it's become normalized. I feel like there's
an expectation that's developed of things getting shipped, of not
paying for shipping, and then things arriving in two days.
And when I do order things off of other websites,
even though on one level I feel better about myself,
sometimes on another level it is hard to pay a
twenty or ten or twenty dollars shipping fee.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And hard once we spend so much time with a
company like Amazon to quit it and we have someone
right here, right now in the studios who has been
thinking about this and other big questions. BusinessWeek editor Brad Stone.
He's also the author of two books on Amazon, The
Everything Store and Amazon Unbound. What even is Amazon at
this point? I mean, I think most people think of
(05:27):
it as a store, an everything store, if.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
You will, Max.
Speaker 9 (05:31):
There's one line from the story I wrote with Matt
Day that I'm particularly proud of because we thought about this,
how do you frame Amazon today? It's so many disparate things,
and we write it's a corporate urduck.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
In turnucins are always funny.
Speaker 9 (05:44):
It's an ad business, a logistics company stuffed inside an
e commerce marketplace, trust to a cloud, computing powerhosts, garnished
with Alexa, Whole Foods and Prime Video. So in a way,
it's not as easily described as an everything store.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
You talk about in your article that they're making this
big move into AI, that they've made just this huge bet,
and that their goal with AI is not just AI.
I feel like a lot of companies are everybody's even
shoe companies are getting into AI. But you make the
point that they want to be the Amazon of AI.
What does that mean, well.
Speaker 9 (06:16):
First of all, Amazon has a lot to lose, right
AWS is the market leader in cloud computing. It's got
something like what thirty five or forty percent market share.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Explain what that is.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I think people sort of know what cloud computing is.
But when you say AWS, Amazon Web Services.
Speaker 9 (06:31):
This is companies, organizations, governments renting their computing capacity, running
their applications on the servers of what we call in
the industry like the big hyperscalers. That's Amazon primarily with
the majority of market share, but also Google and Microsoft
in this new wave of AI, where the potential is
(06:54):
to kind of supercharge your operations with AI, Microsoft and
Google have started to make up a lot. They have
booked a lot more future business. They each early on
invested in the leading AI companies, Microsoft in open AI,
Google very early on in Anthropic And there was the
perception internally and externally that Amazon was caught flat footed.
(07:15):
And here on the fifth anniversary of Andy Jasse's tenure
as CEO, taking over from Jeff Bezos, we are looking
at his playbook and how he's.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Been trying to catch up, and he has largely caught up.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
In a lot of ways, Amazon was behind on AI
like this trend caught them by surprise in a sense
because they do not have one of the leading large
language models. On the other hand, they were very early
in a bunch of things that are kind of AI adjacent,
data centers being one of them, Alexa this kind of
a proto chatbot being another, and even like the Amazon
(07:50):
ghost store that has now been shut down. Like they
had some sense that this was going to be a thing,
but they didn't quite play it right.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
How have they turned it around? No, I think it's true.
Speaker 9 (08:01):
I mean, Jeff was pushing machine learning tools inside the
company for more than a decade. I think that there
was an opportunity for them to invest earlier than they
did in anthropic maybe even open AI. But they've turned
it around by running the Amazon playbook. So they produce
chips to compete with in videos AI processors, and the
(08:21):
selling point for those is that they're a little bit
more cost effective. Come to Amazon, run the models, save
a little bit of money, or do it more efficiently.
The other thing is you go to Amazon's Bedrock service,
which is how you'd run your AI applications if you're
an AWS customer, and I kind of compare it to
a sort of a diner's menu of options. People want
to run their AI where their data is and where
(08:43):
their applications are, so depending on their customers and their
market share and the hassle or the inconvenience of moving
off that to basically solidify their position.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
So is Amazon's AI basically just a business to business?
Is it like a B to b AI? Or will
costs like Prime members experience it too?
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I mean, this is Amazon, right, so it's always everything.
So they've done a couple of things.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
The answer is yes.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
The answer is always yes.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
This is maybe a good time to broad the conversation
to AI in general. This is the kind of cover
story of a series of stories that are in the
same issue, all about AI and kind of what it's
going to take to take AI to the next level.
Stacy has a story, and I've got a story in it.
And I think, Stacey, I thought of your story, which
(09:30):
is about AI and productivity and the question of what
it means for productivity, and it made me wonder, And
I think there is a big question hanging over this
whole AI revolution, which is like when.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Are the productivity gains going to come? And are they
going to come. Are are we sure they're going to come?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I mean to me, that's a really interesting question about
AI is that there's all this promise, all this excitement.
Our economy in a lot of ways is kind of
counting on it. But there is always a gap with
new technology between when the technology is introduced and adopt
and when it actually causes the economy to grow. And
there's also a gap with jobs, which I think is
(10:06):
scaring everybody where. It's a lot of jobs get lost
sometimes because of a new technology, and then eventually economists
will always say, but new jobs come, But there's a
gap there too. But one interesting thing about Amazon is
a lot of companies are grappling with this, like they
have to make a huge investment. A is not cheap,
so they have to make a big investment and the
payoff might not come for a while. But I'm wondering
(10:28):
if that matters to Amazon or if Amazon can just
weather the storm, whereas a lot of smaller companies might
be a little more locked out.
Speaker 9 (10:37):
There is almost no way for these large tech companies
to lose, right.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
They are the beneficiaries of so much so chilling.
Speaker 9 (10:45):
Yeah, there's so much experimentation that's happening such an industry wide,
business wide commitment to trying out these AI tools. Amazon's
also building these data centers. That's two hundred billion dollar
investment in cap access here. That momentary alarmed investors, and
then they kind of came back and they fund most
of that with their own balance sheet, So they're not
(11:05):
doing the kind of risky lending that maybe some of
the smaller competitors are. The big risk for Amazon is
that for the original part of its business, for still
the largest part of its business, the e commerce company,
that people start shopping within chat ept or clawd, that
top of the funnel changes, and these chatbots seem to
customers to be like a far superior experience and the
(11:28):
currently ad riddled search results you would get in searching
on Amazon. And so in some ways rufus maybe you know,
doesn't have to solve all of our problems as shoppers,
but it does have to be kind of part of
the Amazon moat and a reason if these shopping agents
do take off, that people are compelled to stick with Amazon.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
So much of this just feels very slippery to me.
I mean, we don't.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
The like prousness wise or politically everything. The productivity gains
have not come. The question of job losses is very
much open. I mean, you have companies saying they're laying
people off with AI because of AI, but it's not
totally clear. That's the reason. You know, the concept that
we've talked about AI washing or whatever. And you also
(12:11):
have including some of these technologists saying now being aware
that it's maybe a bad look to talk about laying
people off with because of technology, are now saying, oh no, no,
AI is actually going to create lots of jobs. So
like there's all this the messaging is kind of confused.
I do think there's risk to Amazon. The story that
I wrote in this issue is about ro Kanna, who's
(12:32):
a congressman from Silicon Valley. I thought of him as
basically the most pro tech member of Congress there was.
He was out there talking about how great Crypto was
when Crypto.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Was controversially a lot of pain money.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Constituents are technologists and he is, And what my story
is about is how he's basically turned against the industry.
And I think he's doing it because he's trying to
run for president, and also because many people in the
United States are turning against this stuff, these data centers,
and I think this is going to be a risk
for Amazon. I think Amazon has a risk of going
(13:07):
through something similar to what Tesla went through, where maybe
in a less pronounced way, just because Jeff Bezos and
the company is not seen as polarizing as Elon Musk is.
But I don't know, like you even hear it in
the tape we played. People have ambivalent feelings.
Speaker 9 (13:20):
I agree with that, but I also think we should
note that a billion people are using chat GBT every
WEEKAWS just hit its fastest growth rate in like several years.
People are understandably nervous and maybe ambivalent about AI at
the same time as another set of numbers showed that
they're doing everything they can preferences yeah, to experiment with it,
(13:43):
to integrate it into their own lives. And I'm sure
Andy jasse is looking at the numbers. He told us
that Alexa use has doubled since they rolled out Alexa plus.
They seem very optimistic about rufus that, yeah, maybe despite
the political sentiment that the nervousness, people are embracing these tools.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
It'll be interesting watching this out over the next couple
of years. We get an election in twenty eight and
there's going to be opportunities for customers to make their voices.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I mean, it's a huge issue. There are tons of protests,
like in the West Utah there, you know, there's a
forty thousand acre data center going in and like just
protests have erupted. People in places with lots of space
and not a lot of political power are really upset.
But there may be some victories. I just I guess
(14:28):
I'm skeptical because of the juggernaut that is AI, that
it will stop.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
We will continue covering this, We will continue watching this.
Brad'll be back to update us on the next turn
of the Yes, please the screw in tech and in
all the quarters of power, Bradstone, thanks for being here.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Thank you guys.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Of course, Max companies like Amazon have been a major
part of the economic boom that we have been seeing,
a lot of that economic boom being fueled by AI,
or at least hopes about AI, and the stock market
for the last couple of years has just been on
a tear, going gangbusters.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, And it's kind of strange because we've been talking
on this show all along about the kind of difficult
news that the economy is confronting. Obviously, there's potential questions
about AI. There's also the war in Iran oil. The
price of oil has doubled consumer sentiment. It's not great
stacy and the Fed, even the Fed, the interest rates
(15:32):
are not getting cut.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, we got some not awesome inflation numbers out this week.
And the price of everything has been going up pretty
fast and doesn't look to be slowing down anytime soon.
And there was a really interesting article that we came
across from our friend of the show, Kyla Scanlon, about
why this might be and what we should think about it.
Kyla is the best selling author of In This Economy.
(15:56):
She joins us Now, welcome Kyla, I thanks for having me. Okay,
So the question, there are a lot of reasons why
it seems like the market should not be on the
tear they're on. What is going on? Why are they
so exuberant? I mean, it's a it's a good question.
Like part of it is earning.
Speaker 10 (16:10):
So like a lot of what's happening with the stock
market right now is the companies are making a lot
of money, Like the AI trade is really working out.
But like what you said about energy prices also really
matters because that puts a lot of pressure on in
companies historically. I mean, sometimes it doesn't, but the companies
in the stocks are kind of shrugging everything off, it seems.
(16:31):
And there's this implicit assumption that AI will continue to
carry the economy forward, that the data center build out
will continue to happen, that the grid can support all
of the data centers that are being built, the companies
are going to adopt all of the AI, and that
will carry the stock market because the AI companies are
such a big component of the S and P five
hundred that, Yeah, it just seems like nothing can slow
(16:53):
it down.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
The challenges that you're referring to, like we should just
spell them out. So I guess the big one is
that Trump started a war with Ran and the trade
of horror moves has been closed as we're recording this
for six weeks.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I guess something like that more than.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, and probably like more importantly shows no sign of reopening.
And and that is causing fuel crisis crises and countries
around the world.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
There's like and on top of that, it creates inflation. House.
There's that that's happening.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I mean, what are the other big economic challenges that that,
in your mind, should be the stock mark should be
responding to, besides fuel prices.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
I mean, I think it's just the uncertainty of it all.
Speaker 10 (17:38):
Like I for businesses right now, like we don't even
talk about tariffs anymore, but like that's still a thing
that companies are having to deal with. The higher health
insurance costs have led a lot of companies to pull
back on hiring spin So I think it's just kind
of like the general environment you would think would put
a lot of pressure on companies. You would think that
what's happening with the federal reserves, sort of the question
(18:00):
around independence would cause the stock market to sell off
a little bit, But it doesn't seem to care at all.
You would think that the political path that we're on,
where we're you know, sort of objectively kind of fighting
with our allies would upset the stock market a little bit,
but it doesn't seem to care. Like, it doesn't seem
to worry about the fact that a lot of what
(18:20):
our trade relationships are are you know, requiring our friends
to continue to exist, to have those friendships continue to
be fruitful, not putting tariffs on other countries. So I mean,
it's just it's kind of everything. You would expect the
stock market to go down, but maybe it's because everything
is so crazy that it just goes up.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Well, also, interest rates, that's normally something the market really
responds to. With interest rates aren't cut, you know, that
can really slow the economy down. It makes borrowing more expensive,
which can mean businesses and people borrow less and spend less.
But that even that hasn't dampened the markets. Nothing, nothing else,
So what what do you think is going on?
Speaker 10 (18:57):
So in this New York Times opinion piece that I wrote,
I theorized that the markets expect to get rescued. So
like every time something goes bad, you know, the stock
market gets rescued by the Federal Reserve, and this is
something the Fed has to do. I think it makes
a lot of sense, it's very rational. But Greenspan did it,
or Ninki did it. Powell did it during the pandemic.
(19:19):
Because when you raise interest rates, as you were saying,
like people spend less money, you know, the money's more expensive,
people slow the economy down. So then ultimately hopefully inflation
goes down. As sort of like the mechanism that interest
rates move throughout the economy. And so if the stock
market or the economy rather it needs more support, the
Federal Reserve will lower interest rates, money gets more free,
(19:42):
everything's a little easier. But the stock market now expects
that rescue mechanism to take place, like it's been saved
for you know, I guess is that like forty years, right.
It seems like that is part of the reason that
it refuses to go down is because they know that
it doesn't have to.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, and we have a new kind of mechanism, which
is taco or just this sense. Yeah, Donald Trump cares
a lot about the stock.
Speaker 10 (20:11):
Market, but yeah, the market, just the taco stuff only
works to a certain extent. Like you can only move
things forward by narrative so much. And like with the tariffs,
it was kind of fine because you could pretend that
you were taking them on and taking them off and
you could push it out. But when you enter a war,
you can't really be like never mind. And so I
(20:31):
think that's the issue that markets are wrapping their head around.
So with this expectation of rescue. But yeah, it doesn't
seem like the street's going to open anytime soon. It
seems like it opens potentially right before Future is open
on Sunday nights. I think we get like a little
hint to that it could open, and then it closes
again Monday morning.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
So let's say you know the markets think okay, well,
Trump is watching the markets. He's going to respond to this.
He's not going to let things get really bad and
if they do, we'll get bailed out. What is bad
about that? Because, as Max said, like having the markets
be high is a good thing. It companies make more money,
they tend to expand higher. Like this seems not so bad.
Speaker 10 (21:13):
I mean, I guess it just depends on your thoughts
around if it's real, like a lot of the company's
earnings are profitability is up. But you don't want a
market that is so detached from fundamentals when it comes
time for like fundamentals to really matter. So I think
the worry is that the market is not pricing risk properly,
(21:35):
Like it doesn't seem very aware that there's this like
very big thing happening that it should have more of
a concept around rather than betting that this AI trade,
which is reliant on the strait of Hormuz being open,
that that'll just carry us all through. So I think
it's like it's not a good or bad thing. It's
just like the worry that the market is not properly
understanding what's happening. And then that puts four one k's
(21:56):
at risk, that puts retirees at risk, That puts the
stability of the entire American experiment at risk. So that's
the concern. Yeah, that's very dramatic. But like, we socialize
retirement in the United States through the stock market, and
we have an aging population. One in five Americans are
going to be over the age of sixty five by
twenty thirty, and we don't really have a plan for
(22:18):
like what is going to happen, And so that's my
concern is that we're going to have an aging population
that is not going to be able to retire because
the stock market is not properly understanding the risk that
it is before it.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
What about a bailout. I mean, let's say the stock
market does not understand the risk properly, Like, why can't
a bailout happen?
Speaker 10 (22:36):
That's like the rescue mechanism, right, Yeah, so it could happen,
but then that puts the US government even more extreme
in the debt situation. I think debt to GDP just
passed like one hundred percent. There's a chart from the
Wallsty Journal. You don't want a situation where you're always
having to finance a way out of a crisis, because
that puts more pressure on the US government. That puts
(22:56):
more pressure on Social Security and Medicare. Like, the government
can only spend money on some things. So if all
of a sudden it has you know, both the Federal
Reserve and the US government. If fiscal policy came in
and saved the stock market, a lot of pressure on
the government. If montey policy has to come in and
save the stock market, a lot of pressure on indust rates.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
This this idea that AI is the last hope for
this economy, I find this very concerning.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
As somebody's followed the AI.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Very serious AI skeptic.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Well, I mean, I do hope that the AI can
save us all and will continue. But you know, we
have yet to see big productivity gains from any of
this stuff. The history of productivity gains from other technology
suggests it could take a really long time for it.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
To show up.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
So it feels like there is going to be at
some point a sort of reckoning around AI, and just
because asset prices are so high, and because we have
yet to see a lot of like a lot to
show for all this investment, and because there's a big
political backlash that it appears to be.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Brewing that the data center.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, that would also put and so what would an
AI bailout look like to your mind? I mean, you
brought up some of the things in this Times op
ed some of the things that the Trump administraty sort
of already doing.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Yeah, what what would that look like an AI bailout?
Speaker 10 (24:16):
Yeah, So my colleague got the Vanderbilt Policy Accelerator. He
wrote this incredible paper called After the AI Crash where
he goes into this and great detail. Is an excellent paper,
Highly recommend people read it. But he has all of
these policy ideas prepared for, like what it could happen,
what could we do to respond to an AI crash happening?
And a lot of it is sort of separating things,
(24:38):
so like separating the al labs and the data centers
Glass stekl for AI having maybe a public data center
so the public.
Speaker 12 (24:45):
Can regulation government regular so much regulation because we're doing
the same thing that we did with social media where
we're like let it ride and like let's see what happens,
and it's a crazy, crazy experiment.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I have one other question.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Maybe the market is just right, like a lot of
smart people and you know, corporate profits are high, Like hey,
like you know this is you guys are just doom saying,
what's your kind of response, Like, maybe the market's right.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
It might be.
Speaker 10 (25:11):
I mean, yeah, sure, but I think that if you
just sort of look at the reality of what is
happening in terms of the underpricing of the risk, like
a lot of it doesn't make sense. And so I
think if you look at the metrics and you look
at the numbers, you can certainly point to the companies
making a bunch of money and like the AI company
is spending a ton of money, and like that's obviously
(25:32):
you're going to bring some money in. But I think
if you like dive just a little bit deeper into
the other companies and that's some pop five hundred that
are not in the AI trade, you started to see
where some of the cracks are forming.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Is Trump going to be like it's your patriotic duty
to use chat apt for like eight hours a day.
Speaker 10 (25:47):
I'm just trying to imagine he'll have his own AI model.
I do think there will be a Trump branded AI model.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It is Honestly, the more we talk about this is
the more shockdand that there isn't Trump companies and family
business very good at like at sniffing out where the
hot trend is.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
It's a big deal, you would.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Think, Donald Junior, write us, let us know. We could
probably send you some others. Right, everybody's a bloomber done net.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yes, indeed, so Kyler, like what are you watching right now?
What are the tells that you're watching? Kyla? I don't
even know anymore. I mean, like there are no Canaris.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
It's good, Like I'm happy that I don't want to
tell yes, like I write, like, I just think it's
important to be like, hey, there's a huge risk thing
that like maybe the stock market isn't pricing in and
considering our demographic issue in terms of an aging population,
we should really be paying attention to, like how the
stock market is pricing risk to make sure that people
can retire properly, because that's the way we retire people.
(26:48):
So like that's why I keep harpening on this this problem.
But I like the economy is astoundingly resilient.
Speaker 10 (26:55):
It is. Yeah, I mean that's interesting though, because like
the little treat economy is fascinating where there's a really
interesting research peaper that came out in November twenty twenty
five talking about the perception of housing affordability and if
people feel like they can't afford a home, they're more
likely to take riskier investment decisions and more likely to
gamble in prediction markets or sports betting, and then they're
(27:16):
more likely to indulge in kind of like these little
one off things, like spend a bit more money on
the little treats because.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
They're not saving for anything.
Speaker 10 (27:24):
Yeah, because they're like, I'm never going to afford a house,
and that's kind of where I'm at, Like, I don't
really know how I like it, just to feel so
out of reach, and I think a lot of people
are in that boat.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And you're just like, Okay, sure, I'll get the nines
like the Yolo economy.
Speaker 10 (27:37):
Right, totally, totally.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Well, Kylo, you will have to come back as this
thing shakes out and help us navigate through these crazy times.
But thank you for joining us, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
All right, Stacey. We have a special guest for today's
Underrated Story. But first I need to share this email
that we got in the Everybody's business mailbox Everybody's.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
From Kyle about tickets. Remember we had asked.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
This was a couple of weeks ago, and we've been
sitting on this because things got busy or whatever. Sorry Kyle,
but the email is so funny because we had asked,
what's the most you've ever spent on tickets? You know,
we talked about I forget what I said, a few
hundred bucks, and Kyle took us on a journey from
the most he had ever spent had been twenty five
dollars to go to the Van's Warped tour in the
(28:30):
early two thousands to then he went and he bought
tickets on the early side to an Era's tour show
in Arizona to Taylor Swich dollars.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Yeah, so that was the.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Like a pretty good deal, Kyle.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
I would agree with you because you will hear what
happens next.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Then he was so into it that they went to
another show one thousand dollars each in southern California, then
Taylor also a Taylor Swish show. Then at the end
of the US leg they went again thirteen hundred dollars
a ticket.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Then how big is the family European leg?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
This is mostly him and his wife, although there's some
friends and family thrown in there as well. Then they
went on the European leg of the tour twenty four
hundred dollars per ticket.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
And still tweeler swift. They were like still they were
like deadheads, but they were following.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Thirty six one hundred dollars. That's the most he has
spent on a concert ticket. Now, that was the Vancouver
Eras tour. That was the end of the RAS tour.
He wanted to see the ending. Kyle, I, first of all,
I thank you for this email. It is an awesome email.
It really shows you how concert tickets have gotten more expensive, certainly,
but also the way that that fandom can just draw
(29:41):
you in.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
It does show I mean, one of the big things
that is very important to millennials, especially post pandemic. One
of the things that's been the big shift in spending
has been people buying fewer goods and buying more services.
People want experiences. Younger people don't want stuff, they want experiences,
and I do feel like this speaks to the fact
(30:05):
that the experience of seeing Taylor Swift and concert apparently
so powerful. You travel the country and the other world
and shell out thousands to see the same songs and
outfit changes because there is something so powerful in the experience.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
All right, Kyle, thank you for the email. Listeners, please
write to us. Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Shake it off, Stacy. Normally the underrated portion of the
show when we get here, it's just you and me.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
This is true.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
We have a special guest with us right here, Sean WN,
Bloomberg reporter, joining us to help with the underrated segment.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Hey Sean, thank you, pleasure to be here. Now. Sean
has a new show.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
She is the host the reporter of Foundering The Killing
of Bob Lee, which is an excellent, excellent show about
this murder in San Francisco. It gets to all these
issues on what kind of drew you did this story.
Speaker 13 (31:02):
I think I was drawn to it because I liked
that there were a lot of different things going on.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
It was a.
Speaker 13 (31:08):
Story where every time you thought it was about one thing,
it ended up being about something else.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
And describe. I feel like everybody saw the headlines, but
it's there have been a lot of headlines. So briefly
sum up the story because I think most people will
remember it. Sure.
Speaker 13 (31:25):
So, three years ago in San Francisco, which is where
I live, a tech executive was found stab to death
on the street. And this was during a super sensitive
time for the city. San Francisco was slow to recover
from the pandemic. Downtown was hollowed out, and there was
a widespread fear of crime, which led to the recall
of our progressive district attorney. And so then you had
(31:49):
this very grisly, very mysterious seeming death, and it set
off a wave of online fury. There were rumors, there
were speculation, and some big names in the tech industry
weighed in. You had David Sachs who was saying that
he bet dollars to dimes that Bob Lee was stabbed
by a psychotic, homeless person. And then you had Ela
(32:12):
Musk disparaging the New DA.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
So, Sean, we have a clip of your show to
play and set us up a little bit. What are
we about to hear?
Speaker 13 (32:20):
So the irony of all of the rumors and speculation
was that a Boble's actual killer was someone he knew
and b that the police had their suspect almost immediately.
They waited nine days to Restnema MOMENTI because they wanted
to build a stronger case. But in those nine days
(32:41):
they were actually following him around and they got this
incredible piece of footage. The prosecution wanted the jury to
pay attention to Nima's behavior after the stabbing, and for
this they introduced new evidence, a video of Nima made
six days after Bob was killed, but before Nima was
arrested Ohmed to lie. The lead prosecutor was at the
(33:05):
police station when he saw it for the first time.
Speaker 7 (33:08):
I remember Sergeant Goff calling saying, Hey, I'm headed back
from South Bay. You gotta see this.
Speaker 13 (33:17):
Sergeant David Goff is an undercover cop who had been
following Nima since the day after Bob was killed. GoF
had recorded something he wanted to show the prosecutors, and.
Speaker 7 (33:27):
He wouldn't even really explain it to us. He just
wanted us to see it. The homicide inspectors do not
have these fancy offices. They're all kind of in cubes,
cubicles next to each other. So we were standing and
Sergeant Goff put in the video and we just press
play and you kind of I think a couple times
(33:48):
says he said, just wait, just wait, like just just
wait for it. Wait for it.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Also, Stacey, there's a little easter egg. People should check
this out.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Foundering and Killing a subscribe listen to it is the usering.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
That you're in with. Unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, so you know it'll it's but anyway, it's really
worth your time and you should check it out and
let us know what you think.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Sean, you have an underrated story.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
That podcast, i'd say is fairly rated, rated, highly busy,
especially one of.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
The episodes you hear is quite excellent.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
But we have an underrated story as well. Sean Grace
us with the underrated story.
Speaker 13 (34:28):
Okay, my underrated story of the week is the University
of Central Florida students who are graduating twenty twenty six
booing their commencement speaker, a woman named Gloria Caulfield.
Speaker 11 (34:41):
Change is exciting, very exciting, and let's face it, change
can be daunting. The rise of artificial intelligence is the
next industrial revolution? WHOA what happened? Okay? I struck a chord?
(35:12):
May I finish only a few years ago? AI was
not a factor in our lives. Okay, all right, Okay,
(35:38):
we've got a bipolar topic here. I see.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Okay, Sean, such a good choice.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
We were just talking about on the segment before you
joined us with Bradstone, about the backlash to AI, and wow,
you really hear it in that audio.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
I mean to me, the thing that's most surprising about
this is it's.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Not Berkeley, it's not the New School or something. It's
the University of Central Florida. It's a big state college
in the middle of Florida.
Speaker 13 (36:07):
Yes, and also just the very idea of a commencement address.
Right that you're graduating school. You've been schooled your whole life,
and you're about to go into the world. Your university
has invited someone who's older, wiser and successful to give
you life advice. But the thing is, there are some
big generational changes that have really upset the natural order
(36:31):
of this. So I'm a millennial, I'm a geriatric millennial.
And one of the defining things about our generation is
that a lot of the advice that we've received from
our parents' generation baby Boomers were a lot of advice
was irrelevant as we were coming of age they grew
up during a time without crushing student loans, when owning
(36:56):
a house was more achievable, when upwards social mobility was assumed.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
For this generation of kids.
Speaker 13 (37:04):
You have a whole generation that was sold on the
idea that learning to code would be their golden ticket.
And one of the first changes that we see from
AI is the decimation of entry level computer programming jobs.
And so graduating students are contending already with the effects
of AI in a very real way, and in a
(37:26):
very negative way.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
I would say that I saw that a little differently
because she calls it an industrial revolution, and I don't
think of the industrial revolution as this totally positive thing,
like it was pretty brutal.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
But that's what's so crazy about the clip.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
She's saying what basically what every business person in the
world thinks is conventional wisdom, and then is being booed,
and then is surprised she didn't realize that these kids
might not like AI.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And I looked at the unemployment numbers for people under
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Totally, and I read these and I read like the
story that Brad just wrote about Andy Chassi, and read
lines from executives basically saying very similar things, and it
does feel like there's a whole, big part of the
world that they may not be listening to.
Speaker 13 (38:13):
And I also think that what's satisfying about the clip
is that the way the AI is presented to us
is so top down right. Big tech companies are talking
about AGI, a superhuman, super powerful intelligence that's going to
transform our society.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
And steal our banking passwords exactly exactly.
Speaker 13 (38:33):
And to see young people, a groundswell of young people booing,
that's something that AI can't replace.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
We can still boo.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
As a Mets fan, booing is very satisfying. Let me
tell you anything. There is nothing like a good boo
to get your feelings out in a public place. So
I really relate to those University of Central Florida students.
Although I've never bowed AI, I've only booed underperforming members.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Only is New York Mets. Wait, you boo your people.
Speaker 13 (39:05):
I assume you would boo the other team.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, poo the other team as well, But sometimes you
have no choice but to boo your ow team. The
show is called Foundering The Killing of Bob Lee. It
is available on Bloomberg dot Com. We'll put a link
in the show notes and wherever you get podcast.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
Sean Wen, thanks for being here, Thanks so much.
Speaker 5 (39:20):
For having me.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Thanks Im.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
This show is produced by Jasmine J. T. Green, Stacey Wong,
and Miles J. Hersenhorn. Mangus Hendrickson is our supervising producer.
Sam Rogich handles engineering, and They Purcell fact checks. Special
thanks to Jeff Muscus, Julia Rubin and Maria Lingk. If
you have a minute, please rate and review the show.
It means a lot to us. And if you have
a story that should be our business. If you want
to confess to some out of control spending, email us
(39:50):
at Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net. That's everybody with an
ass at Bloomberg dot net. Thank you for listening and
we'll see you next week.
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