May 22, 2026 • 39 mins
This week, Puck fashion correspondent Lauren Sherman joins Max and Stacey to break down her latest scoop: direct-to-consumer pioneer Everlane has been acquired by fast-fashion giant Shein for $100 million. What does an opaque e-commerce behemoth want with a brand that built its name on "radical transparency?" Lauren unpacks the corporate irony and offers sanity-saving shopping advice for the ethically whiplashed.
Plus, Businessweek contributing writer Megan Greenwell drops by to discuss the roaring success of the WNBA. Fresh off a historic new collective bargaining agreement engineered with the help of a Nobel Prize-winning Harvard economist, the league's growth seems limitless — even if skyrocketing ticket prices are giving day-one fans a bit of sticker shock.
Then we debut our new segment, Super Savers, with the story of one resourceful soccer enthusiast who built a viral workaround to attend the World Cup.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Stacy, you have a hot new topic that you wanted
to talk about this week.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Well, my hot new topic is neither hot nor new,
but it is an important topic.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
It is the bond market, So brace yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, you brought this up a couple days ago when
we were meeting, and it made me think about the
conversation we had last week with Kyla.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Yeah, Kyla Scanlon.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
She was talking about all of the not great economic indicators.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
We've been getting.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Oil prices going up, job market kind of stagnant. At
the same time, the stock market has been just going
gangbusters all year.
Speaker 5 (00:47):
So I think the worry is that the market is
not pricing risk properly, Like it doesn't seem very aware
that there's this like very big thing happening that it
should have more of a concept around rather than betting
that this ali trade, which is reliant on the strait
of hor moves being open, that that'll just carry us
all through.
Speaker 6 (01:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I mean, basically, Kyla made this point to us that
the market isn't necessarily a good sign of our country's
and economies.
Speaker 7 (01:13):
Health right now.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Stock market because stock marked doock market is at record
his Now the bond market, though, is not doing so well.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Yeah, the bond market's been flashing red. Another day, another
set off in the bond market, and although the moves
today is not as drastic, the levels that we're seeing
are pretty eye popping.
Speaker 8 (01:32):
But did you stay focused on the US treasury market.
We're seeing the thirty year yield hit its highest since
two thousand and seven, so that's before the Great financial crash,
the big big banking crash of two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
So oil prices, the job market, AI worries, none of
that could quell the stock market. But the bond market
finally did it and has been kind of rattling the
stock market for the last week.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Wait, just back up, though, Yeah, I know, and I
think most listeners have a very intuitive sense of what
we're talking about. What we're talking about the stock market.
Those are people you're buying a little piece of a company. Yeah,
bond prices just tell people what they.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Are, Oh my god, because it gets.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Confusing because when they go up, that's actually bad. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (02:17):
Right, And I have to remind myself of that every time.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I feel like the reason people talk about the stock
market instead of the bond market.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Even though the bond market is.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Pretty definitively more important than the stock market, is just
that it's so hard to talk about because it gets
really confusing really fast. So essentially, the bond market, these
are little loans. When you get a bond, you're essentially
giving the government a loan, and the government pays you
a little interest on that loan.
Speaker 9 (02:45):
Could be a company as well, but often a government.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
So this is a loan that you are giving to
the US, and the appeal for you is like, this
is a really safe place to put my money.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Nothing bad's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
There aren't that many really safe places put your money
in the world. So governments, companies, they're pouring money into.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
The US bond market. It's very popular.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
And for the government they basically get a bunch of
free money because it's seen is so safe and stable.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
The US does not have to pay a high interest rate.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Essentially for these loans, it's like maybe I'll loan you money. Sure,
I will do you the favor of accepting your money.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I will take this money off your hands.
Speaker 9 (03:26):
You are welcome.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Here's a little something.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So at the end of ten years, thirty years, if
you lend the US government, stay a thousand bucks, maybe
you get back one thousand and fifty bucks. Like it's
really really low money, but very safe, traditional.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Low interest rates, but they are going up and like
that's what's so interesting because investors are now asking for
more return when they loan the US money. And that
kind of raises a question, which is which market.
Speaker 9 (03:54):
Should we trust?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
All Right, We're going to keep an eye on these
shifting markets, and we do want to hear for you.
Do listeners, do you think we should be listening to
the bomb market or the stock market? Send us an
email or voice memo. Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net. That's
everybody's with an ass at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Speaking of shakeups, we have three stories this week that
are all about unexpected shifts. So the first one is Everlane,
which is its beloved millennial fashion brand. It has a
new owner shin the Chinese company that sells closed and
lots and lots of other das.
Speaker 9 (04:35):
Two peas in a pup and.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
What this means for the future of our closets as
a whole. We are going to break this down with
fashion reporter Lauren Sherman.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, and Stacey, I've been so excited for this one.
The WNBA is back. It is one of the fastest
growing sports leagues.
Speaker 9 (04:51):
In the world.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
They're attracting record at tenants numbers new fans, and that
success is translating to the salaries of the play. Reporter
Megan Greenwell has the story and I spoke to somebody
about the unique ways that you can save money while
still going to these very very expensive World Cup matches.
Speaker 10 (05:13):
Uh.
Speaker 9 (05:13):
That is for our brand new Super Savors segment. We've
got a pack show. I'm Max Schafkins and.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I'm Stacey Vanocksmith and this is everybody's business from Bloomberg
Business Week. So Max, Uh, I know that you are
not like super super into close but harsh.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
But no, no, not in a bad way.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
But you know, I know you've got you've got kids,
and you're married and so like, clothes come up a
lot in your life.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I'm sure do you know about Everlane?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, I know about Everlaine. Everlaine makes kind of drab basics.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
I would would make yes basics.
Speaker 9 (05:57):
Like Mark Zuckerberg. That's how I would define it.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
That voice you heard is Lauren Sherman, friend of the
show Fashion correspondent and Puck joining us down the line
in Paris.
Speaker 11 (06:07):
Hey Lauren, Hi, guys, nice to see you.
Speaker 9 (06:10):
We should note that Lauren broke a huge story. What
was it, Lauren? Like earlier this week or last week?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
It was Sunday afternoon and I was like, guys, I
have a scoop that is so goofy.
Speaker 11 (06:23):
But it was true.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
The goofy scoop was that Everlane, this clothing brand that
Stacey and I were talking about that I think I
defined badly is being bought by Sheen, which is the
big Chinese fash fashion thing.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yes, so okay, Lauren, how do you define Everline and
tell us about this scoop?
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Why is this? Why is this a big deal?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Everlane is many things too many people, are actually many
things to very few people.
Speaker 11 (06:52):
That's why they were sold to she because no one
was buying it.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
But I'd say it was like ewer do you remember
that term noisecore? It was essentials, it was post modern gap.
The whole thing that they kind of built the business
around was this idea of quote unquote radical transparency. So
it was it was with the rise of venture capital
back direct to consumer brands. It was in that sort
(07:18):
of chunk of brands like where We Parker and Glossier
and Outdoor Voices. But I would say that their big
thing was like, we're selling it directly to you to
cut out the third party middleman. We're going to sell
it for cheaper than other people would, and we're going
to show you exactly how much money we're making, how
much money you're saving, and also the product looks good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I don't know who said it, but but you know,
somebody's referred to it as it's like SeaWorld buying Pta
or something like that. It's like the company that is
the opposite of sort of ethical shopping or whatever.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, transparency, ethical sourcing, price breakdown.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, because I mean I think the brand promise of
Sheen is like we made this in a sweatshop.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
This isn't eight The problem is like this is eight dollars.
Speaker 12 (08:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Are Their supply chain is very opaque, so we don't
know where it's being made or if it's being made
by humans or robots, which is possible and would actually
be better I think than the sweatshop scenario. People on
my Instagram posts were like, was this an onion? This
onion headline and it's true. You know, the founders aren't
(08:29):
with the company anymore. Most of the early I don't
think anyone who's started out there in the court leadership
team is still around.
Speaker 11 (08:37):
The board is basically all gone.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
They were owned by private equity firm el Catterton, and
they had some debt that needed to be cleared and
al Caterton. I did some reporting in March that al
Catertin was willing to put a little more money in
if someone else came in and took the debt. All
they could find is she in which is going to
start buying more Western brands.
Speaker 11 (09:00):
That's what I was told this week.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
That they're looking at a bunch of different companies and
they were interested in Everline's very good supply chain. So
it's yeah, the irony is just crazy. And then you
get you just get so many people on the internet
with these sorts of things who are like, I will
never shop at Everlane again. I can't believe this. I'm
(09:26):
so disappointed and sure, but then you're also kind of like, when.
Speaker 11 (09:31):
Was the last thing you shopped at Everlane?
Speaker 7 (09:33):
Lauren.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
I think you'll be really interested to hear this. We
have not heard this yet. We sent a producer of
ours out into the streets.
Speaker 9 (09:40):
Of New York to as j Hersenhorn.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
To talk to the people of New York to see
what they thought about this, if they knew Everlane, if
they knew Shean, and what they thought about this whole deal.
Speaker 9 (09:49):
So Everline just got purchased by Sane. Do you have
any thoughts on that development.
Speaker 12 (09:54):
It's not going to be a good thing for the
fast fashion industry. I mean a good thing for the
fast fashion industry, but not a good thing if we're
trying to work towards getting rid of the fast fashion industry.
I used to shop on Seen a lot when I
was like younger and stuff, but then I realized how
bad it was, So yeah, I try not to do
it anymore.
Speaker 9 (10:13):
What do you think of fast fashion?
Speaker 8 (10:16):
I try to avoid it.
Speaker 13 (10:18):
The problem with fast fashion is that a lot of
the materials are made of a lot of plastic. So
I noticed a degradation of the Adidas track suit I
bought ten years ago to the one that I bought
last year. It has a lot more polyester in it
then it used to be a lot more cotton. What
are your shopping habits?
Speaker 14 (10:39):
How would you describe them?
Speaker 12 (10:41):
Probably like I'm like super not into over consumerism, so
I try not to shop that much more. If I do,
I go to thrift stores, but probably like.
Speaker 9 (10:49):
Once or twice a month.
Speaker 14 (10:51):
Sometimes I will find myself though in like the TikTok
shop by really cheap like running pants or something. I
do try to because I just don't like ethically, I
don't find how it's made.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
To be good.
Speaker 12 (11:08):
I would say, I do purchase quite a bit of
clothes living so clos by to sohole, so it does
not help my case.
Speaker 7 (11:17):
But yeah, I'm a frequent buyer.
Speaker 13 (11:19):
I would say, what's the last item of clothing that
you purchased?
Speaker 12 (11:24):
It was a cardigan from Zarah so some fast fashion.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah yeah, Lauren, Why do you think that this company
that clearly means something to a lot of people you know,
nonetheless managed to run into all this trouble.
Speaker 7 (11:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (11:40):
Look a few things.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
One is the sort of promise of venture capital for
product companies. In the twenty tens, there was this idea
that you could scale a product company the way you
scale a tech company, and you simply can't, and so
pouring a significant amount of money to a startup that
(12:03):
a product startup isn't you really need to sort of
build the business and build the brand, then you can
put a bunch of money into it. But like the
Row for instance, the luxury brand owned by the Mary
Kay Nashley Olsen, they raised at a billion dollar valuation
I think last year or the year before.
Speaker 11 (12:21):
But they yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
But they make, you know, four hundred million dollars a
year in sales and that took twenty years to get
to that point. Product takes time. You have to build
the trust to the customer. You need them to believe
in it. And if you want a nice T shirt
in a really good fabric that's made at a good factory,
(12:44):
you go to Uniklo. If you don't care about any
of that stuff, you go to Amazon or or Shean.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So what is the appeal for Shean? Why would they
want to buy Everlane?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
They are interested in buying Western brands. They first, they're
valued at one hundred billion dollars and they will IPO
someday or they hope to IPO someday. So they need
to understand this market better. They need to understand different
areas of this market. And to buy Everlane for one
hundred million dollars and get a peek into their supply chain,
(13:18):
which is really good. So I think that's probably why,
more than anything, they have the money and why not
experiment and see how different consumers consume.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
But it also for me raises a question like why
And we heard it on that in that sort of
bit of tape, people talking about how much they dislike
fast fashion and how much they want to not buy
fast fashion. This comes up a lot when we talk
about AI too. There are a lot of people who
are saying, oh, yeah, I hate AI, right, But then
(13:51):
it's not like they're you know, not using chatch ebt
or whatever to write their emails.
Speaker 9 (13:55):
How do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Like everyone hates fast fashion, they say, But it's also
this huge business.
Speaker 11 (14:02):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I think that people don't always realize what they're buying
is could also be fast fashion, and what is fast
fashion and what is them? It just means quick turnaround. Zara,
for instance, is totally vertically integrated. A lot of their
manufacturing happens near their corporate headquarters in Spain, So is
(14:26):
that environmentally if you're doing localized manufacturing. There's so many
things that go into this stuff that it's really hard
to measure.
Speaker 11 (14:35):
What is good and what is bad.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
One thing that did occur to me was that I
know that Chian has been kind of hit with all
the changes to tariffs that President Trump put into office. Particularly,
there was something called the Deminimus Law, which essentially let
you know, very inexpensive imports come into the US for free.
And I know Shan and Timu really took advantage of that,
(14:58):
and that was really built into their business model, at
least as far as their like US business was concerned.
Is this possibly a response to that? Does this help
them navigate that in any way?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Are they Shean is a huge operation. I'm sure they are.
One of one thing they've done is they've moved their
headquarters to Singapore. I'm sure that there is many strategic
reasons why they moved their headquarters out of China to
be based in Singapore. The thing that I've found is
that the sheanside has been extremely as they always are, like,
(15:35):
extremely opaque about the reasons. All I know is that
they're looking for brands and they are not stopping at everline.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Now, maybe the values of transparency and sustainability are going
to go to the millennial cringe graveyard or whatever, and
we won't have them. But for consumers who do care
about these things, like where should they shop? And and
if it's not Everlane, where is it like?
Speaker 9 (15:59):
Or what which?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
If you're giving advice to a friend about you know,
if you want to bring that spirit of Everline.
Speaker 9 (16:04):
To twenty twenty six, where would you look?
Speaker 8 (16:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
And I should say, I know I sound cynical about
this stuff because I've just been doing this for so
long that I'm always kind of like, you know, anything
made or put into the environment is not good for
the environment. But look, I think that the thing if
you care, and there are people who really care, I
think shopping secondhand is a good first start. I remember
(16:31):
there was this sweater that I wanted. This is ten
years ago now, from the lvmh O and bran Selene.
It was this chunky turtle neck sweater and it was
now in twenty twenty six terms, it would have cost
four times the amount because the prices of luxury goods
have gone so high. But it was so expensive and
I thought, I can never buy this, I can never
(16:53):
buy this. But you know what I ended up doing
just buying the same sweater like knockoffs less nice knockoffs
of a similar sweater ten times, and never. It wasn't
until I finally just spent the money on the sweater
that I was satisfied. You want something new immediately. We're
in such a quick Instagram gratification culture.
Speaker 11 (17:16):
You wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
You wouldn't buy a new couch every week, Like you
spend money on a couch and then you have it
for twenty years. And so I think if people thought
about clothes like that a little bit more, they would
be be more satisfied with what they wear. Like no
one enjoys their clothes. Enjoy your clothes. Like maybe if
you don't have a lot of money, go to goodwill
(17:38):
and get something tailored, but like take pride in it.
And I think that's what's sort of been lost in
the last decade.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Thank you so much, Lauren, Enjoy Enjoy Paris.
Speaker 11 (17:48):
Thank you all so much.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
In the fourth quarter of game three seconds your Nescu
will tea Sopriina young Nescu with the biggest shot in
Liberty history.
Speaker 9 (18:15):
Stacey, you remember this moment.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Twenty twenty four, Sabrina Yuenescu Game three WNBA Finals, huge
moment for the New York Liberty our home team, and
I wanted to play this because the WNBA season is
back that it's really exciting. I am going to try
to get to a game this year. I actually haven't
(18:37):
been yet. There's so much going on here, not just
with the WNBA, but in sports in general.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yes, there are, I mean women's especially basketball. I feel
like this blown up in recent years. I feel like
there are all kinds of deals being made. And then earlier,
was it last year or this year, there was like
the big salary negotiation, which I was very excited about
where I think the player's got something like a four
hundred percent raise.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yes, that negotiation happened just a couple of months ago,
and we wanted to bring in BusinessWeek contributing writer Megan
Greenwell to talk both about the pay deal, which, like
you said, it was huge, and also just the growth
of the WNBA and women's sports in general. Meghan's also
the author of Bad Company. She's a friend of the podcast,
(19:25):
friend of the magazine. Megan, Welcome to Everybody's Business.
Speaker 7 (19:28):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Al So, just to start, how do you see this
this pay deal that was struck between the WNBA players
and the league. As Stacy said, when you look at
the kind of pay increases, it was pretty substantial.
Speaker 15 (19:46):
Yeah, the pay increases are wild. So my favorite stat
is that the minimum salary is now higher than the
average salary was last year. So no players, you know,
no matter how you were drafted as a rookie, nobody
is making less than two hundred and seventy thousand dollars.
Speaker 11 (20:05):
That's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I mean, it's not professional sports money really, but it's it's.
Speaker 15 (20:11):
Not professional sports money. But a lot of people have
also pointed out that, like men's professional sports money was
not what it is now when they were thirty years.
Speaker 9 (20:22):
In, right, which is the age of the WNBA.
Speaker 15 (20:25):
Exactly, And so the growth is like starting to get serious.
And the reason the players won this deal was because,
like there was just no denying that it is a
dramatically bigger business than the last time the contract was struck. Also,
the total salary cap for each team rose from one
(20:46):
point five million to seven million, so all of a sudden,
teams can do a lot more, you know, in terms
of like how you build out your roster. They're now
required to have twelve players, which they weren't before, so
you could kind of understaff your team, So it's a
really big deal and a huge leap forward. The other
(21:07):
thing I'll mention is, even aside from the salaries, for
the first time, WNBA players get a revenue share, and
that was the thing that they were really really pushing for,
was to say, Okay, look, when the revenue grows, it
grows because of us, and we want a portion of that.
The NBA has about a fifty percent revenue share, so
(21:28):
this is not as much as the WNBA players were
asking for, but they went from zero to twenty percent.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
So how did this growth happen? From one million to
seven million?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I mean, these raises are big and I imagine quite overdue,
but like, how did this happen? Was it the popularity
that drove this? Was it other things that drove this?
How do we get here?
Speaker 15 (21:51):
Yeah, the popularity has really just skyrocketed, and a lot
of the conventional wisdom attributes that to Caitlin Clark, who is,
you know, by far, the biggest name in the league
right now. I pushed back against that conventional wisdom a
little bit because the growth did start before that. So
I am a big New York Liberty fan. You saw
(22:13):
Liberty games really start to take off a year before
Caitlyn Clark entered the league.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
When was that?
Speaker 15 (22:20):
That was in twenty twenty three, And then in twenty
twenty four, the Liberty won the championship and it was
I mean, the vibes were so good. I profiled Clara Wusai,
the owner of the Liberty, for Business Week last year,
and she had really made this change where she was
treating her team like a business and investing in it
(22:43):
like a business in a way that you know, for
most of the thirty year existence of the league, a
lot of the owners were sort of like treating it
like a cute little charity project. And it turns out
that when you start treating things like a serious business
and really marketing them and trying to bring in the
biggest stars, the popularity will naturally increase.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
One of my favorite details of this latest round of
negotiations was that they got an economist to come help.
I guess economist Claudia Golden, who's a Nobel Prize winning
economists at Harvard.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
I mean, they really brought in like I mean, she
has been studying like gender and pay equity for decades.
Speaker 7 (23:29):
Yeah, I love this.
Speaker 15 (23:30):
So the WNBA Players Association, I guess, emailed Claudia.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Golden, who was at Harvard, and.
Speaker 15 (23:37):
Just said like, would you can we hire you as
a consultant essentially, and she said, listen, I'll happily work
for you.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
You can't pay me.
Speaker 15 (23:46):
So she was just doing this like out of passion
and out of a belief that they should be paid better.
And I've read multiple stories that make really clear that
her research was incredibly crucial to getting that revenue sharing
agreement because the WNBA did not want to share revenue
and she made all these charts that essentially said, Okay,
(24:10):
here's how this measures up to other leagues and basically
making the case through data that if you want to
be taken seriously as a professional organization, this is.
Speaker 7 (24:19):
What you have to do.
Speaker 15 (24:21):
And I've heard multiple players say we probably don't get
revenue sharing if it's not for Claudia Golden. So I mean,
it's it's just a really delightful part of the story.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
You've said this a couple of times now.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
You said, when you treat something more like a business,
then it kind of performs more like a business. And
when you treat players more like professionals like that kind
of has this positive feedback loop. Can you talk a
little bit about that, Like, what does that mean, treating
it more like a business, treating people more like professionals,
Like what is this transformation?
Speaker 15 (24:50):
Yeah, So Clara Wusai when she came in as the
owner of the Liberty, so the Liberty had been owned
by James Dolan, still the owner of the.
Speaker 9 (25:00):
Knicks, famous non vindictive billionaire.
Speaker 15 (25:03):
Yes, exactly, totally normal, well adjusted person. We love the
next we grow questions about James Dolan. But James Dolan
did not care at all about the New York Liberty,
and so it was just a matter of like when
he was going to let go of them. And so
Clara Wousai, she and her husband Joseph sie one of
the founders of Ali Baba, already owned the Brooklyn Nets
(25:26):
and owned the majority of Barclay Center. You know, she
takes the most active role in the Liberty, even though
she and her husband co owned the team. And she
kind of came in with the assumption that if I
pour a ton of money into this business to you know,
at the time, she couldn't do anything in terms of
(25:47):
raising salaries, right because those were limited by the salary cap.
Speaker 7 (25:51):
What she could do.
Speaker 15 (25:52):
Was create the biggest training staff in the league. They
would only have one trainer for an entire team. Charter
flights were a huge deal. Clara Wusai really pushed to
get everybody on charter airplanes, when at the time it
was not just that not everybody was taking charter flights,
it was that you literally were not allowed to take
(26:15):
charter flights, and so you ended up with all of
these situations where like people would miss games because their
Delta Airlines flight or whatever was delayed. It's just sort
of like amateur kind of stuff. And I think, you know,
the argument of my piece last year was, in some
ways Claara Wusai is actually the most powerful person in
(26:38):
the WNBA right now, and I really think the CBA
bore that out because it forced every team to treat
its players the way she was treating her players.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
You mentioned James Dolan, you mentioned the Knicks. Knicks are
in the playoffs right now in New York. Also, the
NBA season is just starting. Been thinking about this because
you know, I would love to see the Eastern Conference
finals in person, but like the cost is going to
be prohibitive, like the average price in Madison Square Garden
right now. I haven't looked lately, but it's it's in
(27:12):
the sort of five hundred dollars range or something like it,
maybe even more.
Speaker 7 (27:15):
I think it's send up four figures.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it huge fees. You know, you want
to see the liberty in the next couple of days.
You're talking about the get in price being something like
twenty bucks to get like decent seats, you know, in
the kind of sixty dollars range or whatever. We've talked
a lot on this podcast about the way that sports
(27:38):
in general, and this has to do with, you know,
your world of private equity. They've gotten more expensive, and
it's it's gotten more expensive to like take your family
to a major sporting event. Do you think the WNBA
has benefited to some extent from that as the fact.
Speaker 9 (27:54):
That like the the NBA or.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Major League Baseball or the NFL have just put themselves
more and more out of touch in terms of like
getting into the venue and seeing some live sports.
Speaker 15 (28:06):
There's a tricky transition happening because as the league gets
more popular, those prices have to rise. And so I
have friends who have been really frustrated because they've been
hardcore Liberty fans for years and now you know, I
have one friend who's a season ticket holder, and his
season ticket price has increased dramatically in just a couple
(28:29):
of years because there is so much more demand. And
I went to a couple of like late season games
last year, right before the Liberty started in the playoffs,
and I think I paid over one hundred bucks for
like sort of mid tier seats, you know, not great seats.
Speaker 7 (28:47):
So there is this.
Speaker 15 (28:48):
Interesting challenge that I think is common to a lot
of businesses of how do you prevent yourself from like
alienating those folks who were with you from the very
beginning while still bringing in massive new audiences.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Just to bring it back full circle, you know, we've
been talking about money and ownership and the revenue increase,
but you know, ultimately it's it is the players. It's
it's the sports that make this sport uh wonderful and
that to bring people in. And our producer Stacy Wong
found a really cool clip of Courtney Williams, who plays
(29:26):
for the.
Speaker 9 (29:27):
Minnesota Links, talking about this deal. Let's give a listen.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, I understand the history of that just happened today.
Speaker 11 (29:33):
Bro, We're gonna be millionaires.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Bro, the Burdis millionaires in our families.
Speaker 12 (29:38):
The biggest jump in any all the professional sports, all
the professional girls, me boy women, whatever.
Speaker 9 (29:45):
This is a historical day.
Speaker 12 (29:46):
Bro.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 7 (29:52):
That's so great.
Speaker 15 (29:53):
I mean I hadn't heard that clip before, but I mean,
she's right, and the players did this. You know, you
can talk about the importance of Claire Wusai and other figures,
but the reason this happened is because the players improved
the league so much and had so much fan support
(30:14):
on their side. The league didn't have much choice but
to give the players a lot of what they were demanding.
They didn't get everything, but you know, they should be proud.
Speaker 7 (30:26):
It is huge. It is absolutely historic.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Megan, before we go, Liberty three to one as of
this recording, are they your pick to win win the
championship this year?
Speaker 15 (30:37):
I mean, they're the pick of my heart. I'm going
on Monday to see them play the Portland Fire, one
of the newest expansion teams. I'm very scared of the Aces.
I mean, the Aces are just they won last year.
Asia Wilson is maybe the greatest player of all time.
They're looking really, really good except for a disastrous first game.
Speaker 7 (31:03):
But I'm going with the Liberty.
Speaker 15 (31:04):
I feel like Satu Sabili was an incredible ad this offseason,
so yeah, I'm going Liberty Champions twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
All right, thank you so much, Megan, thanks.
Speaker 7 (31:15):
For having me.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Speaking of sports, there is something very disturbing about the
FIFA World Cup.
Speaker 9 (31:27):
They want to say that this is a public transit event.
Speaker 11 (31:29):
Well, those are not public transit prices. I went to
the World Cup in Qatar.
Speaker 6 (31:34):
I spent one.
Speaker 14 (31:34):
Thousand dollars on nine games for the price of one
game at this World Cup.
Speaker 11 (31:41):
I'm not doing that.
Speaker 6 (31:42):
They just dropped the ticket prices for the World.
Speaker 9 (31:44):
Cup and La La la the most expensive.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
Ones in the US.
Speaker 9 (31:47):
That's not surprising.
Speaker 14 (31:48):
Four thousand dollars for the cheapest ticket just for us
to watch.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
A group stage in Missouri, FEMA, how can you get
away with these prices?
Speaker 8 (31:56):
The American Dream.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Hey, this is a story I've been following really close
this week, says and it's the perfect introduction to a
brand new segment that we have been working hard on
here at Everybody's Business called super Savers.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Yes, this is where we highlight the kind of unique
and sometimes extreme lengths that people go through to save money.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, and for our first ever Super Saver Tam, I'd
like to introduce you to Luke.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
Luke is his first name.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
He has for a bit of privacy, and I'll just
let Luke explain what he's been working on.
Speaker 10 (32:31):
What I built was a website that is called seat Sidekick.
And what this website does is it pulls data in
terms of ticket listings from the FIFA resale marketplace as
well as the FIFA Last Minute Sales portal and helps
(32:53):
fans view all the tickets that are available to purchase
directly from FIFA in one view, and they can track
by price, they can sort by different prices, by how
many seats are available.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
It's basically like it takes all of this World Cup
data that is very hard to make sense of, and
make sense of it so you can create a list
of the prices of games in a given city. You
can slice and dice this you get a sense of
what tickets cost. The way I've been using it is
that like I would like to go to a World
Cup game, but the prices are crazy high, right, and
(33:26):
so high it's almost discouraging and at the same time,
this is a fluid market because FIFA is pursuing dynamic
pricing and because they started with prices super duper high,
like in the thousands of dollars, there's a dynamic where
you can kind of wait and see. And right now,
the thing that's really interesting, like as we speak, prices
(33:46):
are falling. There's a lot of conversation from fans about
potentially empty stadiums, and the Luke's website actually went viral
earlier this week because a single game the price dipped
below one hundred dollars.
Speaker 9 (33:59):
So what you can do with.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Is like set a certain games or certain regions and
get alerts like if the price falls below a certain level,
then you know you can go and grab a ticket,
so you're not overpaying for a ticket that you don't
otherwise need. Luke, what was the situation like for ticket buyers?
What's it been like?
Speaker 10 (34:18):
Yeah, it's been quite difficult for myself included when I
first found out about the World Cup coming to the
United States, I was extremely excited. I've never been to
a World Cup game. Soccer is not really huge in
this country.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Are you a fan?
Speaker 10 (34:33):
I am a fan. I am a fan. My team
is Poland, but unfortunately that team did not qualify. Okay, sadly,
but I was very excited about the World Cup coming
to the United States. When I first heard that tickets
were going for on sale, you had to apply for
these lotteries to potentially even get a chance to buy tickets.
(34:53):
I applied for I think like three four lotteries that
FIFA would be doing to buy tickets. The reason why
I originally built the website was I didn't get a
chance to win in any of the lotteries, didn't get
a chance to get any of the pre sales from
Chase or Capital One, so I had to result to
(35:15):
the FIFA Marketplace where it opened, which is the official
resale platform for FIFA. When I first logged into the website,
super excited, and that excitement was demolished within like seconds
when I realized that the only way to view tickets
is by looking on a seat map. You have to
(35:37):
zoom into each section of a seat map, click on
a specific ticket just to see the price, and you
have to zoom out and do that two hundred times
over again around the whole stadium until you can see
a ticket that you'd be comfortable buying.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
So you're experiencing all this frustration.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
You try to get in line to get tickets, you
try to go to the secondary marketplace.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
The prices were crazy.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
So what was the moment you decided to develop this
tool and what is it?
Speaker 10 (36:09):
Yeah, so I think what I the reason why I
built it in the first place was for me personally.
I just wanted it to have a better way of
being able to see cheapest ticket or tickets in a
certain section without having to like click into every single section.
I can just see everything in a list view and
then I can go and buy directly from FIFA.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
At that point, and.
Speaker 10 (36:35):
Primarily, I think I saw on Reddit that people were
having the same kind of frustrations that they were complaining
about how the user interface for the marketplace was difficult
to use. There's no way to like sort or filter,
and they just were asking for something better, And at
that point I already had something figured out, so posted
(36:58):
it on Reddit.
Speaker 6 (36:59):
It kind of floated from there.
Speaker 9 (37:01):
But Luke, FIFA has been trying to shut you down, right.
Speaker 10 (37:04):
Yeah, it seems like I like to think that this
is just part of their regular housekeeping.
Speaker 6 (37:10):
But the data that I collected.
Speaker 10 (37:11):
It comes from directly from the FIFA's own websites, so
it's publicly accessible information. But I do think that there
is patterns that they see, and they can see somebody
putting pulling data and potentially extracting it and posting it
somewhere else. And I do think that at points they
(37:32):
have made it very difficult to obtain that data and
shut down ways that I usually would extract that data
directly from their website.
Speaker 6 (37:41):
So it's been a little bit of a cat and
mouse game.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Luke, where did this journey on for you? What games
are you going to go to? Kind of what's your
personal World Cup plan?
Speaker 10 (37:49):
Yeah, so I originally tried to get tickets to a
match in Dallas. This was a potentially a game that
Poland could have been in if they qualified for the
World Cup. It's a game against Japan. Unfortunately Poland did
not qualify for the World Cup, so it's going to
(38:10):
be Japan versus Sweden. I feel like I did overpay
substantially based on the market and what the prices are
going for on the resale marketplace.
Speaker 9 (38:20):
How much did you overpay by?
Speaker 10 (38:21):
I think the cheapest ticket right now is like around
five hundred dollars for that game I paid like eight hundred.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Well, when I feel like if you're seeing tickets for
eleven million dollars like eight hundred, You're like, well, that's
an amount of money that I have had at one
point in my life. You know, Like it's like these big,
iveryly high prices get normalized.
Speaker 9 (38:40):
Luke, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Our show was produced by Jasmine JT. Green, Stacey Wong,
and Miles J.
Speaker 7 (38:54):
Hrson Horn.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Magnus Hendrickson is our supervising producer, Sam Rogan handles engineering
and Dave Purcell. FactCheck special thanks to Jeff Muscus, Julia
Rubin and Maria Ling. And if you have a minute,
please rate and review the show. It means a lot
to us. And if you have a story that should
be our business, email us at Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
That is Everybody's with an us at Bloomberg dot net.
And thank you for listening. We will see you next week.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Stacy, you have a hot new topic that you wanted
to talk about this week.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Well, my hot new topic is neither hot nor new,
but it is an important topic.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
It is the bond market, So brace yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, you brought this up a couple days ago when
we were meeting, and it made me think about the
conversation we had last week with Kyla.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Yeah, Kyla Scanlon.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
She was talking about all of the not great economic indicators.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
We've been getting.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Oil prices going up, job market kind of stagnant. At
the same time, the stock market has been just going
gangbusters all year.
Speaker 5 (00:47):
So I think the worry is that the market is
not pricing risk properly, Like it doesn't seem very aware
that there's this like very big thing happening that it
should have more of a concept around rather than betting
that this ali trade, which is reliant on the strait
of hor moves being open, that that'll just carry us
all through.
Speaker 6 (01:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I mean, basically, Kyla made this point to us that
the market isn't necessarily a good sign of our country's
and economies.
Speaker 7 (01:13):
Health right now.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Stock market because stock marked doock market is at record
his Now the bond market, though, is not doing so well.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Yeah, the bond market's been flashing red. Another day, another
set off in the bond market, and although the moves
today is not as drastic, the levels that we're seeing
are pretty eye popping.
Speaker 8 (01:32):
But did you stay focused on the US treasury market.
We're seeing the thirty year yield hit its highest since
two thousand and seven, so that's before the Great financial crash,
the big big banking crash of two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
So oil prices, the job market, AI worries, none of
that could quell the stock market. But the bond market
finally did it and has been kind of rattling the
stock market for the last week.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Wait, just back up, though, Yeah, I know, and I
think most listeners have a very intuitive sense of what
we're talking about. What we're talking about the stock market.
Those are people you're buying a little piece of a company. Yeah,
bond prices just tell people what they.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Are, Oh my god, because it gets.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Confusing because when they go up, that's actually bad. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (02:17):
Right, And I have to remind myself of that every time.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I feel like the reason people talk about the stock
market instead of the bond market.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Even though the bond market is.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Pretty definitively more important than the stock market, is just
that it's so hard to talk about because it gets
really confusing really fast. So essentially, the bond market, these
are little loans. When you get a bond, you're essentially
giving the government a loan, and the government pays you
a little interest on that loan.
Speaker 9 (02:45):
Could be a company as well, but often a government.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
So this is a loan that you are giving to
the US, and the appeal for you is like, this
is a really safe place to put my money.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Nothing bad's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
There aren't that many really safe places put your money
in the world. So governments, companies, they're pouring money into.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
The US bond market. It's very popular.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
And for the government they basically get a bunch of
free money because it's seen is so safe and stable.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
The US does not have to pay a high interest rate.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Essentially for these loans, it's like maybe I'll loan you money. Sure,
I will do you the favor of accepting your money.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I will take this money off your hands.
Speaker 9 (03:26):
You are welcome.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Here's a little something.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So at the end of ten years, thirty years, if
you lend the US government, stay a thousand bucks, maybe
you get back one thousand and fifty bucks. Like it's
really really low money, but very safe, traditional.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Low interest rates, but they are going up and like
that's what's so interesting because investors are now asking for
more return when they loan the US money. And that
kind of raises a question, which is which market.
Speaker 9 (03:54):
Should we trust?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
All Right, We're going to keep an eye on these
shifting markets, and we do want to hear for you.
Do listeners, do you think we should be listening to
the bomb market or the stock market? Send us an
email or voice memo. Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net. That's
everybody's with an ass at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Speaking of shakeups, we have three stories this week that
are all about unexpected shifts. So the first one is Everlane,
which is its beloved millennial fashion brand. It has a
new owner shin the Chinese company that sells closed and
lots and lots of other das.
Speaker 9 (04:35):
Two peas in a pup and.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
What this means for the future of our closets as
a whole. We are going to break this down with
fashion reporter Lauren Sherman.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, and Stacey, I've been so excited for this one.
The WNBA is back. It is one of the fastest
growing sports leagues.
Speaker 9 (04:51):
In the world.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
They're attracting record at tenants numbers new fans, and that
success is translating to the salaries of the play. Reporter
Megan Greenwell has the story and I spoke to somebody
about the unique ways that you can save money while
still going to these very very expensive World Cup matches.
Speaker 10 (05:13):
Uh.
Speaker 9 (05:13):
That is for our brand new Super Savors segment. We've
got a pack show. I'm Max Schafkins and.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I'm Stacey Vanocksmith and this is everybody's business from Bloomberg
Business Week. So Max, Uh, I know that you are
not like super super into close but harsh.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
But no, no, not in a bad way.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
But you know, I know you've got you've got kids,
and you're married and so like, clothes come up a
lot in your life.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I'm sure do you know about Everlane?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, I know about Everlaine. Everlaine makes kind of drab basics.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
I would would make yes basics.
Speaker 9 (05:57):
Like Mark Zuckerberg. That's how I would define it.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
That voice you heard is Lauren Sherman, friend of the
show Fashion correspondent and Puck joining us down the line
in Paris.
Speaker 11 (06:07):
Hey Lauren, Hi, guys, nice to see you.
Speaker 9 (06:10):
We should note that Lauren broke a huge story. What
was it, Lauren? Like earlier this week or last week?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
It was Sunday afternoon and I was like, guys, I
have a scoop that is so goofy.
Speaker 11 (06:23):
But it was true.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
The goofy scoop was that Everlane, this clothing brand that
Stacey and I were talking about that I think I
defined badly is being bought by Sheen, which is the
big Chinese fash fashion thing.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yes, so okay, Lauren, how do you define Everline and
tell us about this scoop?
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Why is this? Why is this a big deal?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Everlane is many things too many people, are actually many
things to very few people.
Speaker 11 (06:52):
That's why they were sold to she because no one
was buying it.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
But I'd say it was like ewer do you remember
that term noisecore? It was essentials, it was post modern gap.
The whole thing that they kind of built the business
around was this idea of quote unquote radical transparency. So
it was it was with the rise of venture capital
back direct to consumer brands. It was in that sort
(07:18):
of chunk of brands like where We Parker and Glossier
and Outdoor Voices. But I would say that their big
thing was like, we're selling it directly to you to
cut out the third party middleman. We're going to sell
it for cheaper than other people would, and we're going
to show you exactly how much money we're making, how
much money you're saving, and also the product looks good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I don't know who said it, but but you know,
somebody's referred to it as it's like SeaWorld buying Pta
or something like that. It's like the company that is
the opposite of sort of ethical shopping or whatever.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, transparency, ethical sourcing, price breakdown.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, because I mean I think the brand promise of
Sheen is like we made this in a sweatshop.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
This isn't eight The problem is like this is eight dollars.
Speaker 12 (08:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Are Their supply chain is very opaque, so we don't
know where it's being made or if it's being made
by humans or robots, which is possible and would actually
be better I think than the sweatshop scenario. People on
my Instagram posts were like, was this an onion? This
onion headline and it's true. You know, the founders aren't
(08:29):
with the company anymore. Most of the early I don't
think anyone who's started out there in the court leadership
team is still around.
Speaker 11 (08:37):
The board is basically all gone.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
They were owned by private equity firm el Catterton, and
they had some debt that needed to be cleared and
al Caterton. I did some reporting in March that al
Catertin was willing to put a little more money in
if someone else came in and took the debt. All
they could find is she in which is going to
start buying more Western brands.
Speaker 11 (09:00):
That's what I was told this week.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
That they're looking at a bunch of different companies and
they were interested in Everline's very good supply chain. So
it's yeah, the irony is just crazy. And then you
get you just get so many people on the internet
with these sorts of things who are like, I will
never shop at Everlane again. I can't believe this. I'm
(09:26):
so disappointed and sure, but then you're also kind of like, when.
Speaker 11 (09:31):
Was the last thing you shopped at Everlane?
Speaker 7 (09:33):
Lauren.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
I think you'll be really interested to hear this. We
have not heard this yet. We sent a producer of
ours out into the streets.
Speaker 9 (09:40):
Of New York to as j Hersenhorn.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
To talk to the people of New York to see
what they thought about this, if they knew Everlane, if
they knew Shean, and what they thought about this whole deal.
Speaker 9 (09:49):
So Everline just got purchased by Sane. Do you have
any thoughts on that development.
Speaker 12 (09:54):
It's not going to be a good thing for the
fast fashion industry. I mean a good thing for the
fast fashion industry, but not a good thing if we're
trying to work towards getting rid of the fast fashion industry.
I used to shop on Seen a lot when I
was like younger and stuff, but then I realized how
bad it was, So yeah, I try not to do
it anymore.
Speaker 9 (10:13):
What do you think of fast fashion?
Speaker 8 (10:16):
I try to avoid it.
Speaker 13 (10:18):
The problem with fast fashion is that a lot of
the materials are made of a lot of plastic. So
I noticed a degradation of the Adidas track suit I
bought ten years ago to the one that I bought
last year. It has a lot more polyester in it
then it used to be a lot more cotton. What
are your shopping habits?
Speaker 14 (10:39):
How would you describe them?
Speaker 12 (10:41):
Probably like I'm like super not into over consumerism, so
I try not to shop that much more. If I do,
I go to thrift stores, but probably like.
Speaker 9 (10:49):
Once or twice a month.
Speaker 14 (10:51):
Sometimes I will find myself though in like the TikTok
shop by really cheap like running pants or something. I
do try to because I just don't like ethically, I
don't find how it's made.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
To be good.
Speaker 12 (11:08):
I would say, I do purchase quite a bit of
clothes living so clos by to sohole, so it does
not help my case.
Speaker 7 (11:17):
But yeah, I'm a frequent buyer.
Speaker 13 (11:19):
I would say, what's the last item of clothing that
you purchased?
Speaker 12 (11:24):
It was a cardigan from Zarah so some fast fashion.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah yeah, Lauren, Why do you think that this company
that clearly means something to a lot of people you know,
nonetheless managed to run into all this trouble.
Speaker 7 (11:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (11:40):
Look a few things.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
One is the sort of promise of venture capital for
product companies. In the twenty tens, there was this idea
that you could scale a product company the way you
scale a tech company, and you simply can't, and so
pouring a significant amount of money to a startup that
(12:03):
a product startup isn't you really need to sort of
build the business and build the brand, then you can
put a bunch of money into it. But like the
Row for instance, the luxury brand owned by the Mary
Kay Nashley Olsen, they raised at a billion dollar valuation
I think last year or the year before.
Speaker 11 (12:21):
But they yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
But they make, you know, four hundred million dollars a
year in sales and that took twenty years to get
to that point. Product takes time. You have to build
the trust to the customer. You need them to believe
in it. And if you want a nice T shirt
in a really good fabric that's made at a good factory,
(12:44):
you go to Uniklo. If you don't care about any
of that stuff, you go to Amazon or or Shean.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So what is the appeal for Shean? Why would they
want to buy Everlane?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
They are interested in buying Western brands. They first, they're
valued at one hundred billion dollars and they will IPO
someday or they hope to IPO someday. So they need
to understand this market better. They need to understand different
areas of this market. And to buy Everlane for one
hundred million dollars and get a peek into their supply chain,
(13:18):
which is really good. So I think that's probably why,
more than anything, they have the money and why not
experiment and see how different consumers consume.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
But it also for me raises a question like why
And we heard it on that in that sort of
bit of tape, people talking about how much they dislike
fast fashion and how much they want to not buy
fast fashion. This comes up a lot when we talk
about AI too. There are a lot of people who
are saying, oh, yeah, I hate AI, right, But then
(13:51):
it's not like they're you know, not using chatch ebt
or whatever to write their emails.
Speaker 9 (13:55):
How do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Like everyone hates fast fashion, they say, But it's also
this huge business.
Speaker 11 (14:02):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I think that people don't always realize what they're buying
is could also be fast fashion, and what is fast
fashion and what is them? It just means quick turnaround. Zara,
for instance, is totally vertically integrated. A lot of their
manufacturing happens near their corporate headquarters in Spain, So is
(14:26):
that environmentally if you're doing localized manufacturing. There's so many
things that go into this stuff that it's really hard
to measure.
Speaker 11 (14:35):
What is good and what is bad.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
One thing that did occur to me was that I
know that Chian has been kind of hit with all
the changes to tariffs that President Trump put into office. Particularly,
there was something called the Deminimus Law, which essentially let
you know, very inexpensive imports come into the US for free.
And I know Shan and Timu really took advantage of that,
(14:58):
and that was really built into their business model, at
least as far as their like US business was concerned.
Is this possibly a response to that? Does this help
them navigate that in any way?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Are they Shean is a huge operation. I'm sure they are.
One of one thing they've done is they've moved their
headquarters to Singapore. I'm sure that there is many strategic
reasons why they moved their headquarters out of China to
be based in Singapore. The thing that I've found is
that the sheanside has been extremely as they always are, like,
(15:35):
extremely opaque about the reasons. All I know is that
they're looking for brands and they are not stopping at everline.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Now, maybe the values of transparency and sustainability are going
to go to the millennial cringe graveyard or whatever, and
we won't have them. But for consumers who do care
about these things, like where should they shop? And and
if it's not Everlane, where is it like?
Speaker 9 (15:59):
Or what which?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
If you're giving advice to a friend about you know,
if you want to bring that spirit of Everline.
Speaker 9 (16:04):
To twenty twenty six, where would you look?
Speaker 8 (16:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
And I should say, I know I sound cynical about
this stuff because I've just been doing this for so
long that I'm always kind of like, you know, anything
made or put into the environment is not good for
the environment. But look, I think that the thing if
you care, and there are people who really care, I
think shopping secondhand is a good first start. I remember
(16:31):
there was this sweater that I wanted. This is ten
years ago now, from the lvmh O and bran Selene.
It was this chunky turtle neck sweater and it was
now in twenty twenty six terms, it would have cost
four times the amount because the prices of luxury goods
have gone so high. But it was so expensive and
I thought, I can never buy this, I can never
(16:53):
buy this. But you know what I ended up doing
just buying the same sweater like knockoffs less nice knockoffs
of a similar sweater ten times, and never. It wasn't
until I finally just spent the money on the sweater
that I was satisfied. You want something new immediately. We're
in such a quick Instagram gratification culture.
Speaker 11 (17:16):
You wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
You wouldn't buy a new couch every week, Like you
spend money on a couch and then you have it
for twenty years. And so I think if people thought
about clothes like that a little bit more, they would
be be more satisfied with what they wear. Like no
one enjoys their clothes. Enjoy your clothes. Like maybe if
you don't have a lot of money, go to goodwill
(17:38):
and get something tailored, but like take pride in it.
And I think that's what's sort of been lost in
the last decade.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Thank you so much, Lauren, Enjoy Enjoy Paris.
Speaker 11 (17:48):
Thank you all so much.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
In the fourth quarter of game three seconds your Nescu
will tea Sopriina young Nescu with the biggest shot in
Liberty history.
Speaker 9 (18:15):
Stacey, you remember this moment.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Twenty twenty four, Sabrina Yuenescu Game three WNBA Finals, huge
moment for the New York Liberty our home team, and
I wanted to play this because the WNBA season is
back that it's really exciting. I am going to try
to get to a game this year. I actually haven't
(18:37):
been yet. There's so much going on here, not just
with the WNBA, but in sports in general.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yes, there are, I mean women's especially basketball. I feel
like this blown up in recent years. I feel like
there are all kinds of deals being made. And then earlier,
was it last year or this year, there was like
the big salary negotiation, which I was very excited about
where I think the player's got something like a four
hundred percent raise.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yes, that negotiation happened just a couple of months ago,
and we wanted to bring in BusinessWeek contributing writer Megan
Greenwell to talk both about the pay deal, which, like
you said, it was huge, and also just the growth
of the WNBA and women's sports in general. Meghan's also
the author of Bad Company. She's a friend of the podcast,
(19:25):
friend of the magazine. Megan, Welcome to Everybody's Business.
Speaker 7 (19:28):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Al So, just to start, how do you see this
this pay deal that was struck between the WNBA players
and the league. As Stacy said, when you look at
the kind of pay increases, it was pretty substantial.
Speaker 15 (19:46):
Yeah, the pay increases are wild. So my favorite stat
is that the minimum salary is now higher than the
average salary was last year. So no players, you know,
no matter how you were drafted as a rookie, nobody
is making less than two hundred and seventy thousand dollars.
Speaker 11 (20:05):
That's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I mean, it's not professional sports money really, but it's it's.
Speaker 15 (20:11):
Not professional sports money. But a lot of people have
also pointed out that, like men's professional sports money was
not what it is now when they were thirty years.
Speaker 9 (20:22):
In, right, which is the age of the WNBA.
Speaker 15 (20:25):
Exactly, And so the growth is like starting to get serious.
And the reason the players won this deal was because,
like there was just no denying that it is a
dramatically bigger business than the last time the contract was struck. Also,
the total salary cap for each team rose from one
(20:46):
point five million to seven million, so all of a sudden,
teams can do a lot more, you know, in terms
of like how you build out your roster. They're now
required to have twelve players, which they weren't before, so
you could kind of understaff your team, So it's a
really big deal and a huge leap forward. The other
(21:07):
thing I'll mention is, even aside from the salaries, for
the first time, WNBA players get a revenue share, and
that was the thing that they were really really pushing for,
was to say, Okay, look, when the revenue grows, it
grows because of us, and we want a portion of that.
The NBA has about a fifty percent revenue share, so
(21:28):
this is not as much as the WNBA players were
asking for, but they went from zero to twenty percent.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
So how did this growth happen? From one million to
seven million?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I mean, these raises are big and I imagine quite overdue,
but like, how did this happen? Was it the popularity
that drove this? Was it other things that drove this?
How do we get here?
Speaker 15 (21:51):
Yeah, the popularity has really just skyrocketed, and a lot
of the conventional wisdom attributes that to Caitlin Clark, who is,
you know, by far, the biggest name in the league
right now. I pushed back against that conventional wisdom a
little bit because the growth did start before that. So
I am a big New York Liberty fan. You saw
(22:13):
Liberty games really start to take off a year before
Caitlyn Clark entered the league.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
When was that?
Speaker 15 (22:20):
That was in twenty twenty three, And then in twenty
twenty four, the Liberty won the championship and it was
I mean, the vibes were so good. I profiled Clara Wusai,
the owner of the Liberty, for Business Week last year,
and she had really made this change where she was
treating her team like a business and investing in it
(22:43):
like a business in a way that you know, for
most of the thirty year existence of the league, a
lot of the owners were sort of like treating it
like a cute little charity project. And it turns out
that when you start treating things like a serious business
and really marketing them and trying to bring in the
biggest stars, the popularity will naturally increase.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
One of my favorite details of this latest round of
negotiations was that they got an economist to come help.
I guess economist Claudia Golden, who's a Nobel Prize winning
economists at Harvard.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
I mean, they really brought in like I mean, she
has been studying like gender and pay equity for decades.
Speaker 7 (23:29):
Yeah, I love this.
Speaker 15 (23:30):
So the WNBA Players Association, I guess, emailed Claudia.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Golden, who was at Harvard, and.
Speaker 15 (23:37):
Just said like, would you can we hire you as
a consultant essentially, and she said, listen, I'll happily work
for you.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
You can't pay me.
Speaker 15 (23:46):
So she was just doing this like out of passion
and out of a belief that they should be paid better.
And I've read multiple stories that make really clear that
her research was incredibly crucial to getting that revenue sharing
agreement because the WNBA did not want to share revenue
and she made all these charts that essentially said, Okay,
(24:10):
here's how this measures up to other leagues and basically
making the case through data that if you want to
be taken seriously as a professional organization, this is.
Speaker 7 (24:19):
What you have to do.
Speaker 15 (24:21):
And I've heard multiple players say we probably don't get
revenue sharing if it's not for Claudia Golden. So I mean,
it's it's just a really delightful part of the story.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
You've said this a couple of times now.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
You said, when you treat something more like a business,
then it kind of performs more like a business. And
when you treat players more like professionals like that kind
of has this positive feedback loop. Can you talk a
little bit about that, Like, what does that mean, treating
it more like a business, treating people more like professionals,
Like what is this transformation?
Speaker 15 (24:50):
Yeah, So Clara Wusai when she came in as the
owner of the Liberty, so the Liberty had been owned
by James Dolan, still the owner of the.
Speaker 9 (25:00):
Knicks, famous non vindictive billionaire.
Speaker 15 (25:03):
Yes, exactly, totally normal, well adjusted person. We love the
next we grow questions about James Dolan. But James Dolan
did not care at all about the New York Liberty,
and so it was just a matter of like when
he was going to let go of them. And so
Clara Wousai, she and her husband Joseph sie one of
the founders of Ali Baba, already owned the Brooklyn Nets
(25:26):
and owned the majority of Barclay Center. You know, she
takes the most active role in the Liberty, even though
she and her husband co owned the team. And she
kind of came in with the assumption that if I
pour a ton of money into this business to you know,
at the time, she couldn't do anything in terms of
(25:47):
raising salaries, right because those were limited by the salary cap.
Speaker 7 (25:51):
What she could do.
Speaker 15 (25:52):
Was create the biggest training staff in the league. They
would only have one trainer for an entire team. Charter
flights were a huge deal. Clara Wusai really pushed to
get everybody on charter airplanes, when at the time it
was not just that not everybody was taking charter flights,
it was that you literally were not allowed to take
(26:15):
charter flights, and so you ended up with all of
these situations where like people would miss games because their
Delta Airlines flight or whatever was delayed. It's just sort
of like amateur kind of stuff. And I think, you know,
the argument of my piece last year was, in some
ways Claara Wusai is actually the most powerful person in
(26:38):
the WNBA right now, and I really think the CBA
bore that out because it forced every team to treat
its players the way she was treating her players.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
You mentioned James Dolan, you mentioned the Knicks. Knicks are
in the playoffs right now in New York. Also, the
NBA season is just starting. Been thinking about this because
you know, I would love to see the Eastern Conference
finals in person, but like the cost is going to
be prohibitive, like the average price in Madison Square Garden
right now. I haven't looked lately, but it's it's in
(27:12):
the sort of five hundred dollars range or something like it,
maybe even more.
Speaker 7 (27:15):
I think it's send up four figures.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it huge fees. You know, you want
to see the liberty in the next couple of days.
You're talking about the get in price being something like
twenty bucks to get like decent seats, you know, in
the kind of sixty dollars range or whatever. We've talked
a lot on this podcast about the way that sports
(27:38):
in general, and this has to do with, you know,
your world of private equity. They've gotten more expensive, and
it's it's gotten more expensive to like take your family
to a major sporting event. Do you think the WNBA
has benefited to some extent from that as the fact.
Speaker 9 (27:54):
That like the the NBA or.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Major League Baseball or the NFL have just put themselves
more and more out of touch in terms of like
getting into the venue and seeing some live sports.
Speaker 15 (28:06):
There's a tricky transition happening because as the league gets
more popular, those prices have to rise. And so I
have friends who have been really frustrated because they've been
hardcore Liberty fans for years and now you know, I
have one friend who's a season ticket holder, and his
season ticket price has increased dramatically in just a couple
(28:29):
of years because there is so much more demand. And
I went to a couple of like late season games
last year, right before the Liberty started in the playoffs,
and I think I paid over one hundred bucks for
like sort of mid tier seats, you know, not great seats.
Speaker 7 (28:47):
So there is this.
Speaker 15 (28:48):
Interesting challenge that I think is common to a lot
of businesses of how do you prevent yourself from like
alienating those folks who were with you from the very
beginning while still bringing in massive new audiences.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Just to bring it back full circle, you know, we've
been talking about money and ownership and the revenue increase,
but you know, ultimately it's it is the players. It's
it's the sports that make this sport uh wonderful and
that to bring people in. And our producer Stacy Wong
found a really cool clip of Courtney Williams, who plays
(29:26):
for the.
Speaker 9 (29:27):
Minnesota Links, talking about this deal. Let's give a listen.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, I understand the history of that just happened today.
Speaker 11 (29:33):
Bro, We're gonna be millionaires.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Bro, the Burdis millionaires in our families.
Speaker 12 (29:38):
The biggest jump in any all the professional sports, all
the professional girls, me boy women, whatever.
Speaker 9 (29:45):
This is a historical day.
Speaker 12 (29:46):
Bro.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 7 (29:52):
That's so great.
Speaker 15 (29:53):
I mean I hadn't heard that clip before, but I mean,
she's right, and the players did this. You know, you
can talk about the importance of Claire Wusai and other figures,
but the reason this happened is because the players improved
the league so much and had so much fan support
(30:14):
on their side. The league didn't have much choice but
to give the players a lot of what they were demanding.
They didn't get everything, but you know, they should be proud.
Speaker 7 (30:26):
It is huge. It is absolutely historic.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Megan, before we go, Liberty three to one as of
this recording, are they your pick to win win the
championship this year?
Speaker 15 (30:37):
I mean, they're the pick of my heart. I'm going
on Monday to see them play the Portland Fire, one
of the newest expansion teams. I'm very scared of the Aces.
I mean, the Aces are just they won last year.
Asia Wilson is maybe the greatest player of all time.
They're looking really, really good except for a disastrous first game.
Speaker 7 (31:03):
But I'm going with the Liberty.
Speaker 15 (31:04):
I feel like Satu Sabili was an incredible ad this offseason,
so yeah, I'm going Liberty Champions twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
All right, thank you so much, Megan, thanks.
Speaker 7 (31:15):
For having me.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Speaking of sports, there is something very disturbing about the
FIFA World Cup.
Speaker 9 (31:27):
They want to say that this is a public transit event.
Speaker 11 (31:29):
Well, those are not public transit prices. I went to
the World Cup in Qatar.
Speaker 6 (31:34):
I spent one.
Speaker 14 (31:34):
Thousand dollars on nine games for the price of one
game at this World Cup.
Speaker 11 (31:41):
I'm not doing that.
Speaker 6 (31:42):
They just dropped the ticket prices for the World.
Speaker 9 (31:44):
Cup and La La la the most expensive.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
Ones in the US.
Speaker 9 (31:47):
That's not surprising.
Speaker 14 (31:48):
Four thousand dollars for the cheapest ticket just for us
to watch.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
A group stage in Missouri, FEMA, how can you get
away with these prices?
Speaker 8 (31:56):
The American Dream.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Hey, this is a story I've been following really close
this week, says and it's the perfect introduction to a
brand new segment that we have been working hard on
here at Everybody's Business called super Savers.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Yes, this is where we highlight the kind of unique
and sometimes extreme lengths that people go through to save money.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, and for our first ever Super Saver Tam, I'd
like to introduce you to Luke.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
Luke is his first name.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
He has for a bit of privacy, and I'll just
let Luke explain what he's been working on.
Speaker 10 (32:31):
What I built was a website that is called seat Sidekick.
And what this website does is it pulls data in
terms of ticket listings from the FIFA resale marketplace as
well as the FIFA Last Minute Sales portal and helps
(32:53):
fans view all the tickets that are available to purchase
directly from FIFA in one view, and they can track
by price, they can sort by different prices, by how
many seats are available.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
It's basically like it takes all of this World Cup
data that is very hard to make sense of, and
make sense of it so you can create a list
of the prices of games in a given city. You
can slice and dice this you get a sense of
what tickets cost. The way I've been using it is
that like I would like to go to a World
Cup game, but the prices are crazy high, right, and
(33:26):
so high it's almost discouraging and at the same time,
this is a fluid market because FIFA is pursuing dynamic
pricing and because they started with prices super duper high,
like in the thousands of dollars, there's a dynamic where
you can kind of wait and see. And right now,
the thing that's really interesting, like as we speak, prices
(33:46):
are falling. There's a lot of conversation from fans about
potentially empty stadiums, and the Luke's website actually went viral
earlier this week because a single game the price dipped
below one hundred dollars.
Speaker 9 (33:59):
So what you can do with.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Is like set a certain games or certain regions and
get alerts like if the price falls below a certain level,
then you know you can go and grab a ticket,
so you're not overpaying for a ticket that you don't
otherwise need. Luke, what was the situation like for ticket buyers?
What's it been like?
Speaker 10 (34:18):
Yeah, it's been quite difficult for myself included when I
first found out about the World Cup coming to the
United States, I was extremely excited. I've never been to
a World Cup game. Soccer is not really huge in
this country.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Are you a fan?
Speaker 10 (34:33):
I am a fan. I am a fan. My team
is Poland, but unfortunately that team did not qualify. Okay, sadly,
but I was very excited about the World Cup coming
to the United States. When I first heard that tickets
were going for on sale, you had to apply for
these lotteries to potentially even get a chance to buy tickets.
(34:53):
I applied for I think like three four lotteries that
FIFA would be doing to buy tickets. The reason why
I originally built the website was I didn't get a
chance to win in any of the lotteries, didn't get
a chance to get any of the pre sales from
Chase or Capital One, so I had to result to
(35:15):
the FIFA Marketplace where it opened, which is the official
resale platform for FIFA. When I first logged into the website,
super excited, and that excitement was demolished within like seconds
when I realized that the only way to view tickets
is by looking on a seat map. You have to
(35:37):
zoom into each section of a seat map, click on
a specific ticket just to see the price, and you
have to zoom out and do that two hundred times
over again around the whole stadium until you can see
a ticket that you'd be comfortable buying.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
So you're experiencing all this frustration.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
You try to get in line to get tickets, you
try to go to the secondary marketplace.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
The prices were crazy.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
So what was the moment you decided to develop this
tool and what is it?
Speaker 10 (36:09):
Yeah, so I think what I the reason why I
built it in the first place was for me personally.
I just wanted it to have a better way of
being able to see cheapest ticket or tickets in a
certain section without having to like click into every single section.
I can just see everything in a list view and
then I can go and buy directly from FIFA.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
At that point, and.
Speaker 10 (36:35):
Primarily, I think I saw on Reddit that people were
having the same kind of frustrations that they were complaining
about how the user interface for the marketplace was difficult
to use. There's no way to like sort or filter,
and they just were asking for something better, And at
that point I already had something figured out, so posted
(36:58):
it on Reddit.
Speaker 6 (36:59):
It kind of floated from there.
Speaker 9 (37:01):
But Luke, FIFA has been trying to shut you down, right.
Speaker 10 (37:04):
Yeah, it seems like I like to think that this
is just part of their regular housekeeping.
Speaker 6 (37:10):
But the data that I collected.
Speaker 10 (37:11):
It comes from directly from the FIFA's own websites, so
it's publicly accessible information. But I do think that there
is patterns that they see, and they can see somebody
putting pulling data and potentially extracting it and posting it
somewhere else. And I do think that at points they
(37:32):
have made it very difficult to obtain that data and
shut down ways that I usually would extract that data
directly from their website.
Speaker 6 (37:41):
So it's been a little bit of a cat and
mouse game.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Luke, where did this journey on for you? What games
are you going to go to? Kind of what's your
personal World Cup plan?
Speaker 10 (37:49):
Yeah, so I originally tried to get tickets to a
match in Dallas. This was a potentially a game that
Poland could have been in if they qualified for the
World Cup. It's a game against Japan. Unfortunately Poland did
not qualify for the World Cup, so it's going to
(38:10):
be Japan versus Sweden. I feel like I did overpay
substantially based on the market and what the prices are
going for on the resale marketplace.
Speaker 9 (38:20):
How much did you overpay by?
Speaker 10 (38:21):
I think the cheapest ticket right now is like around
five hundred dollars for that game I paid like eight hundred.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Well, when I feel like if you're seeing tickets for
eleven million dollars like eight hundred, You're like, well, that's
an amount of money that I have had at one
point in my life. You know, Like it's like these big,
iveryly high prices get normalized.
Speaker 9 (38:40):
Luke, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Our show was produced by Jasmine JT. Green, Stacey Wong,
and Miles J.
Speaker 7 (38:54):
Hrson Horn.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Magnus Hendrickson is our supervising producer, Sam Rogan handles engineering
and Dave Purcell. FactCheck special thanks to Jeff Muscus, Julia
Rubin and Maria Ling. And if you have a minute,
please rate and review the show. It means a lot
to us. And if you have a story that should
be our business, email us at Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
That is Everybody's with an us at Bloomberg dot net.
And thank you for listening. We will see you next week.
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