January 14, 2026 • 44 mins
In this episode, Jasmine shares her journey of setting healthy boundaries with her father, highlighting the struggles and growth it entails. By learning to pause and not react aggressively, Jasmine experiences a newfound peace but is challenged by familiar tensions. The discussion centers on understanding the true purpose of boundaries, not to change others, but to protect one's own well-being and healing. The conversation underscores the importance of aligning personal goals with actions, even when it involves difficult interactions with loved ones. Listeners are encouraged to focus on their own growth and integrity, rather than expecting others to change, in order to foster healthier relationships.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm only a contract in this today's conversation is about
something that sounds simple but is anything but creating boundaries,
especially with people we're told we're supposed to love unconditionally.
In this session, Jasmine shares something powerful. Early on. She says,
(00:27):
I've still stood my ground, but I'm not being aggressive
like I used to be, and the outcome has been
calm and peaceful. For a lot of us, peace feels unfamiliar.
We're so used to backlast tension or conflict that when
it doesn't show up, we don't trust it. Jasmine is
(00:48):
learning how to pause instead of react, how to sit
with discomfort instead of firing back, how to stop giving
people the reaction they've been trained to expect from her.
And as she let's sit, I'm realizing I'm growing because
I'm willing to hear someone talk me out of rude
or disrespectful thoughts. But here's where the real work comes in.
(01:11):
This particular boundary she's trying to set isn't with a stranger.
It's with her father. And when family is involved, boundaries
can feel like betrayal, They can feel selfish, they can
feel wrong. So today we talk about what boundaries actually
are and what they're not. They're not ultimatoes, they're not
(01:31):
tools to change other people, and they're definitely not about
controlling someone else's behavior. They're about deciding what you will tolerate,
what you will participate in, and how you will protect
your healing even when the other person stays exactly the same.
Let's get into it, hey, Jeffrien, Hi, uh so, what's
(01:53):
been better since we last met?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
What I'll say has been better is I've used some
of your skill tactics and they've worked. But then I
feel like another issue arives.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Okay, well, before we get to that other issue, how
how do you know they've worked? Like? What did you notice?
I told you all right that that is working, that
is making a difference in a positive way.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I'm so what my battle was. I don't want to
be as aggressive as I used to be, and because
I've been silent for so long, I'm trying to figure
out how to say things nicely. I guess, and I've
noticed because I've still stood my grounds, not taken things
(02:42):
so offensively, the outcome isn't what I've expected, like a
lot of backlash. It's just very calm and peaceful.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Did you enjoy that, yes, How could you tell, like,
how did you know that you enjoyed being and peaceful?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Because I was waiting for a negative response. I was
waiting for backlash, and when I didn't receive it, it
was like, oh, okay, this is working, and I was
anxiety written from it.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
You had no fears or anxieties.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
No, And that's the different part.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Perfect anything else did you notice that? Let you know
that this was working well?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The last few days? Oh, today and yesterday I noticed
it was working because I was triggered and I almost
reverted back to my old ways. So right now I'm
kind of sitting in it at the moment.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
How did you how did you manage? You said? Almost so,
how did you manage not to revert back to your
old ways by not responding yet? Okay? But but how
like you haven't refonded yet. What did you tap into
to stop you from responding in the way that you
otherwise would have like the old way.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I text my sister, I text my system gladys and
let that I think disappointment. It was in regards to
my dad, our dad, and I just I guess vented
a bit to her to let the steam out so
(04:28):
I don't say anything disrespectful to him.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Okay, and you vented the Gladys? Yeah, how did she respond?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
She called me, but I didn't answer. Just this morning.
I didn't answer because I was still in my feelings
about it and a bit emotional. I don't like being
like that, so I didn't want. I haven't spoken to
her about it yet, which I probably would after this call.
I mean, after this session. But I also know I'm
(05:05):
growing because I'm willing to here somebody talk me out
of rude thoughts or disrespectful thoughts.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Did you vent to Gladys via text?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Okay, so she called you and you haven't responded.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, it was very early in the morning. What I'm
doing now is instead of responding so quickly, I'll sleep
on it, and if I still feel that way in
the morning, I'm going to act on it.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
You said, what I'm doing is when I have these feelings,
instead of acting on it, I sleep on it. And
that's not how you used to handle things, correct, right,
So tell me how you're doing that.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
What I've learned is people will poke you to get
the respond to give reason for their behavior or however
they're acting. Now that I'm not giving those responses. I'm
kind of just sitting in it. What I've been doing,
which I'm not sure has been effective, but I'm not
sure it's a solution. I haven't responded at all. I'll
(06:18):
just leave you alone and then just let time pass,
because I'd rather that than me say something disrespectful like
I used to. However, I felt whatever you wanted to
get out of me, I was going to give you
a double and I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Change is hard, jasline. And you are telling me that
you've managed to create a chain. How did you do that?
I know what you did, but I'm asking how have
you managed to do it?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Practice? Literally, Google, I even took a few of your
I'm in the fact, like literally, I've been studying therapy.
Even when I couldn't get therapy right away, I was like,
all right, well, let me do some self therapy. Let
me look up some breathing techniques, let me use all
(07:15):
the tools I already have instead of just trying to
rack up more tools.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Perfect, Okay, I love that. Because any change is a
good change. Any change, Oh yeah, of course, any change
is a good change. Okay, because any change disrupts the
old pattern.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Oh okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Okay, successfully disrupted the old pattern.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And it's funny that you say that is because what
I believe I'm offended by is that my father keeps
using the same patterns and the same tricks in regards
to how he communicates with us, specifically with me, And
(08:03):
I'm like, all right, I see he's not changing, and
I'm doing all this work. I don't want to revert
back to being disrespectful to give him the reason to
why he behaves this way, and that's extremely hard for me.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Right now, Okay, what would you like the most helped
with today? Because I know obviously there's something happening for
you and you're trying to decide how you're going to respond,
and you haven't responded yet, and you're trying to figure
it out. What would be the most useful way for
us to spend our time today?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Because I've thought about this, wondering if it's worth expressing
myself because I know there's not going to be changes
within the other person. I already know I'm changing, So
what why am I going to explain how I feel
(08:53):
and how he acts if he's just going to be offended?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
So Jasmine, can I ask you a very important question? Yes,
why are you changing for myself? To better myself and
especially to break generational curses? Okay? Can you explain to
me what his response has anything to do with those
(09:23):
two aims? So tell me how his response is relevant
to either of those two achievements.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Because I know if he gets the reaction out of
me that I've been trying to shy from and stay
clear from, I'm gonna be so hurt within myself and
disappointed with myself, even if it was one time, Even
if it was one time, that I tell him how
I really feel.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
You're talking about a reaction from you. That's your response,
I'm saying, tell me how his response has any thing
to do with your desires. They don't, exactly, they don't.
So why are you frustrated by him doing what he
always does? It has nothing to do with your achievements?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Okay, because it's aggerating.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It's aggratd. But I ask you what will probably be
the most important question I ask you today, which is, Jasmine,
tell me why you changed. And you gave me two
beautiful reasons, number one to improve myself and number two
to break generational curses. You did not say to get
a different response from my father. Okay, And Jasmine, I
(10:42):
want you to hear me when I'm about to say
and I've probably said I don't know if I've said
it to you before, but I say it often a
change for the purposes of someone else to change is manipulation.
It's not a change. So if you're saying, Elliot, my
feelings are hurt, Okay, then we can talk about how
(11:03):
to deal with your feelings being hurt. But we can't
talk about how to change his behavior because that's actually
not why you changed. And his behavior is actually none
of your business. It's not relevant to your purpose or mission.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
He's my dad, though. What my thing is is that
I'm offended that he expects to be a priority when
we've never been a priority. He takes so much, which
is also known, you know, like my siblings that I
want to become closer with. He takes all the glory
in that, like he raised all of us, and it's
(11:37):
like leave us alone.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
No, And look, I understand he's my dad. I would
prefer he not behaved poorly in this way, but him
being your dad doesn't make him healed. It doesn't make
it has nothing to do like, we have to accepit
people as they present themselves to us. The reason why
(12:06):
you have hurt feelings is because you have an expectation
based upon him being your dad, that he is not meeting.
So as a consequence of him not meeting this expectation,
you have hurt feelings. But I would say to you,
we have to accept people based on how they present
(12:27):
themselves to us. Whether they're dad's uncles, sisters, brothers, doesn't matter.
I have to accept him how he is presenting himself
to me.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Okay. So it feels like I have forgiven him and
I'm doing the work to not hold on to that.
But it's like he's he's the type to be like, yeah,
and I'm your father and you have to respect me,
And it's like, actually I don't. I'm choosing to be
(12:57):
my healing journey.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Okay, But again, I want you to continue to remind
yourself why, like I could give you this work, but
I'm choosing not to, And Jasmine, the reason I'm choosing
not to has nothing to do with you. I'm choosing
not to because I want to be a better person
and I want to break generational curses. So I'm I
could cuss you out, but I'm choosing not to because
(13:20):
these other two things are more important at the moment.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
How do I explain that to him?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It has nothing to do with him. Why would you
explain it to him? As a better question, it's.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Not that I am yearning for a daughter father.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But you're yearning for relationship. You're yearning for something that
is causing this because he may not understand that, you
know what I'm saying, Like, he may not get it.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I don't want. What I'm yearning for is for him
for at the least to not talk bad about your
kids because of the bond we have made. And it's like.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
He gets to talk bad about his kids if he
wants to. You, you have no control that. I wish
he wouldn't. I was all. Want to be clear, I
wish he wouldn't talk bad about his kids, But should
he choose to, you have no control over that, Okay,
in anything you do to try to get him to
stop doing that is manipulation.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
No, I don't get that, Like, how am I being
manipulating because I'm a vote, Like I don't want to
be manipulated?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Well, No, No, No, that's not why you That's not manipulation.
That's not what I'm saying. I think you're being very
strong by saying I don't want to be manipulated, so
I'm going to choose to change. I think you're being
very strong by that where it becomes manipulation when it's
like because in essence what you're asking me, Jasmine, which
by the way, is a good question, I understand why
you're asking that, and I really mean what I just said.
(14:46):
I admire you for the fact that you've changed the
first ten minutes of this conversation. Did you notice I
only asked you one question. I asked that one question
about six times, and the one question I asked you
was how are you doing this? And did you notice that?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay. The reason I asked you that is because I
understand change is hard. And then I ask you what
I think is the most important question I'm going to
say to you today, which is why are you making
these changes? And Jasmine, you gave me two beautiful answers. Amazing.
You said to improve myself and to break generational curses. Amazing.
(15:25):
I admire you for that, I respect you for that.
That is very important and hard to do. Thus you
should be acknowledged for how hard it is to do.
Now the additional part you're kind of saying, how do
I get him to stop talking bad about his kids?
And the answer is you can't. That has nothing to
do with it. That has nothing to do with him.
(15:46):
Like too often, we give boundaries with the expectation that
the person will respond to our boundaries and the way
that we want them to. But the truth is a
boundary is about you and what you will tolerate going forward.
It has got nothing to do with how the other
person will respond to the boundary. Should he talk bad
(16:08):
about his kids? No, I don't think you should talk
badly about his kids. Should he say awful things about
his kids.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And so on?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
No, I don't think he should. He care about hurting
his kids feelings, Yes, but you're not responsible to whether
or not he does those things or not. The only
thing you can say is I won't tolerate it. So
that's why I won't participate.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
In it, Okay. And I do want to mention I did,
for a long time have a grudge against my father,
but I let that go such a long time ago, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
And.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I don't want the fact that we're older and we're
trying to heal and get to know each other better.
I don't want him to ruin that for us.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Then I agree with you, and I think that's amazing
you would say that, But then it's your job to
not let him ruin it. You can't convince him to
stop doing something.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
My dad's Querto Rican, so he has the worst fomo.
So that's why I feel like when he sees like,
I don't know, because he's not a bad guy at all.
He's a great guy, not a good dad. He's not
the best dad, not the worst, but he's the best.
But it's like, I think it's like a fear of
missing out, but what he wants to be a part
(17:26):
of everything.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
What does his fomo have to do with you.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
He's our dad, He's a reason we're siblings. So it's like,
how can we leave him?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
You know, you have to make a choice, and the
choice is like, yeah, he's my dad. He hasn't always
been a great dad. Sometimes he hurts our feelings. And
then you said, I don't want him to ruin what
me and my siblings are trying to do as adults,
which is to get closer. So which one is it?
Do you want to give into your father's fomo or
(17:56):
do you want to focus on accomplishing the goal that
you have for you and your siblings, because you might
not be able to have both.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
It's crazy that you say that, because I feel like,
because I've done that, I've catered to his pomo, even
like going on road trips with him, which I'll never
do again. You know. It's like, I was so disappointed
at that, and that's all I know from that. I'm
scared that's going to happen again. So I don't know
(18:24):
how to detach from that in a sense without being.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Rude, though you do. You literally just said I've catered
into his fomo before I went on a road trip
with him, and then you edited yourself and you said,
and I'll never do that again. That's a boundary. Your
primary focus has got to be on the accomplishment of
the mission, and the mission is I want to better
(18:51):
myself and I want to break generational curses. And now
I'm going to add a third one because you added
the third thing, which is I want to get closer
to my siblings now that we're adults. Those are the
three things you're trying to accomplish, right, Yes, So I
don't care if it's your dad or the male man.
Nothing can be a threat to those three things.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It's okay. In hearing it out loud, it makes sense.
But just the pressure of thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, I mean, I totally understand. I understand personally by
the way that, Like, we want our fathers to behave
in a way that's congruent to being a father. We
want our parents to behave in a way that is
congruent being a good parent. But we have to accept
I'm not in charge of the quality that my parent
(19:41):
decides to be, Like, I'm not in charge of that.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Okay, So can I ask you a question? You set
your boundary with your dad, and let's say he wants
to redeem himself. You give him the opportunity to redeem himself,
but he's continues even like a sheep and wolf's clothing
(20:05):
and he shows his ass. How do you move on
from that? Like, how do you move on from that?
And you've and you've held onto that.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
However, you have to, okay, because it's got nothing to
do with you, Jasmine, it has to do with him.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
So what do you do with those feelings?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Like, okay, Jackman, if I rub poison I beyond my arm,
would you start itching? Might answer, But because it doesn't
make sense that I would own the symptomatology of your problem.
So like, how do you move on from those feelings
by reminding yourself?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Right? Right?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Right? I've got to remind myself. I've got nothing to
do with me. Here's more from my session with Jasmine.
My only job is to hold my boundary. Let me
explain what I mean by that. I'm gonna use a
personal story. But my father was an abusive person, is
(21:07):
an abusive person still alive, and he used to yell
at me, curse at me, hit me, and call me names.
And when I was nineteen years old, I was so
sad and depressed and couldn't handle it anymore. So I
said to my father, I want to have a relationship
with you, but you have to promise me that you
(21:29):
won't do these four things anymore. No yelling at me,
no cursing at me, no hitting me, no calling me names.
If you can follow those four rules, I think we
can have a healthy relationship going forward. But if you can't,
I'm gonna have to remove you from my life. And
I wrote him a nine page letter saying that I
(21:49):
said it to him on the phone, Jeffin, Do you
know what his response to me was? All I asked
was to have a father that didn't yell at me,
curse at me, call me names, or hit me. And
when I made that request, he said fuck you. So
I said, Okay, you've broken one of the rules. You
cursed at me. I have not spoken to him since,
(22:12):
and I'm forty eight years old. Now. You also asked
a really important question. You said, what if he tries
to redeem himself. There have been a couple of times
since that moment when I was nineteen and today when
I'm forty eight, where he's tried to redeem himself, but
to use your word, he has showed his ass. And
I had to say, Okay, the same boundary still exists.
(22:34):
And You're like, well, what do I do with those feelings?
I just remind myself it's about him, it's not about me.
I made a request that is a reasonable request. His
inability to fulfill that request has nothing to do with me,
So I don't own his behavior. It has nothing to
do with me. Okay, does that make.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Sense absolutely, and I think I'm realizing I'm thinking to myself,
like I don't have this issue, Like it's not a
hard thing to cut people off for me. However, when
it's my immediate family, it is literally heartbreaking. And I
think it has to do a lot with grief that
(23:16):
I'm still trying to understand and get through. But I
know it is so healing to let go of hurt
and especially the people that are hurting you. But it
is hard.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
No, yes, it is hard. It is very, very difficult.
But I had to choose me, Like at some point
I had to say, okay, because like jafsman, it's gonna
be hard either way, so why not do like the
healthy hard instead of the unhealthy heart Because I had
(23:51):
a father that yelled at me, cursed at me, hit me,
and called me names, So it was gonna be hard
either way. So I just decided I'm going to choose
the that's associated with healthy. So even though it was
hard to say to him, you don't have access to
me anymore until you stop breaking those rules. That was
probably the hardest thing I've ever done in my life,
(24:13):
but it was healthy unhealthy. Is you thinking that your responsibility.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
It's stressful. The unrealie and the unhealthy way literally stresses
my body. The unreal and the unhealthy way literally stresses
my body. I can feel it.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I absolutely get that. But your responsibility is to Jasmine.
I can't worry about my dad's behavior. I can let
him know his behavior is bothering me. I can let
him know that his behavior hurts my feelings. But I'm
not responsible to how he responds. The only power I
have is in how I enforce the boundary.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
So moving forward, I was thinking about asking chat GPT,
how would so my dilemma is my father. You know,
he'll call me perfusely when he needs a favor, and
I already knew that was going to be the situation,
and then he'll make me feel guilty. He does it
(25:17):
to all of us if we don't come through. I'm
trying to figure out how to respond to that by
because I'm offend. Okay, I'm offended. That's why I'm going wrong.
But it's like, why would you ever think you would
be a priority to me? When you you you still
don't make us a priority. So it's like, how do
I say that in a nice way?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
What's wrong with exactly how you just said it.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
That would be rude.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Apparently you just said, I'm offended that you have the
expectation I would treat you like a priority when you
don't treat us like a priority. That's what you said, right,
That is verbatim what you said. Correct. What's wrong with that?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Literally? To be quite honest, I literally just had so
many ravensome moments of what will happen in them?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Remember, you're not responsible to how he responds, but Jasmine,
that is your authentic truth. Right? What if you said
to your dad, So I'm gonna give you two variables here,
what if you said to your father, I wish I
could help you, but I'm offended that you expect me
(26:29):
to make you a priority when all I've ever wanted
my entire life was to be a priority to you.
So if we can ever sort that out, I would
happily help you, But until then, I'm going to say
no to your requests. And what if you said something
like that, which is literally what you just said. I
(26:49):
just kind of doctored it a little, and then you
don't measure the success of that statement by how he
responds or not. You measure the success of the statement
by how true and genuine it was to you.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Because I'm gonna be honest. I honestly told Gladys so
she can handle it. Now I'm thinking, you know, dang,
this is it is your responsibility.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I do believe it is your responsibility. I don't believe
it is Gladyses. I think it is your responsibility.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Okay, okay, okay, okay, because I keep in my head,
I keep saying, but what if?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
But what I but Okay, So remember I told you
very personal thing that I told my dad, Please don't yell,
let me hit me and call me names or cursing.
And his response was fuck you. That was literally his response.
I hope you're not offended by me cursing because that
was that was verbatim his response. That doesn't mean that
my statement was not effective, because I actually felt very
(27:49):
successful because I told my truth and I told my
truth to who, at the time was the scariest person
in my life. I've never been more proud of myself.
I feel, Jasmine that you're determining your success based upon
does Dad acknowledge what I said in a healthy way
or not? And I'm trying to tell you That is
(28:10):
not your responsibility, nor is that how you should determine
whether or not successful or not. The success is did
I tell my truth? And if Dad, if he says,
what I hate you and I hate all the kids
and I'm gonna punch you in the nose if he
responds like that, that doesn't mean that your attempt was
a failure, as long as what you said was your
(28:32):
authentic truth.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Okay, it's just gonna be rough. I already know it.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Well, if it's going to be rough, then we have
to roll up our sleeves and do something difficult. Right.
No one said being healthy was easy, Jasmine. But remember
I can deal with the hard, which is placating to
my dad and being anxious and all of the things
(28:59):
that you said earlier, or I can do the hard
but healthy and live in my truth.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Okay, it's gonna be hard, reguideless.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
He's gonna be hard regardless. But wouldn't you rather do
hard healthy versus hard unhealthy?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And I think that's still new to me. I think
I thought I was doing it the healthy way by
when I started to change, and just to ignore, I
guess there's healthier.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Well, yeah, I mean the healthiest thing is to face
it and live in your truth, which means I might
have to say things that my dad won't like hearing.
I've done that before, right, So I might have to
say some stuff that you know he's not gonna love,
but I'm gonna say it because it's my truth and
(29:50):
I'm deciding to live in my truth.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And it's just like it's a bit of a hard
concept because I thought all these years, all thirty nine,
I thought I'd been living in my truth. So the
adjustment is like life.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
No, I think you were living in a lie. But
I think there were times, rather than live in your truth,
you prioritized his feelings and emotions to the detriment of
your ambitions, which again are three very noble things. I
want to be a better version of myself. I want
to break generational curses, and in adulthood, I want to
get closer to my siblings. There were times where you
(30:31):
had those three things you were trying to do, but
you put your father's moved ahead of yours, ahead of
your ambitions.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yes, that's absolutely true. During my healing journey, because I've
been in therapy, at one point i'd have to be
okay with accepting sories like during my therapy and who
I would want sories from. And I got a lot
(31:00):
of sorries I didn't expect. But the one that I
thought and did expect was my dad and the way
he turned it against me. And it was so weird.
It literally felt it was all God sent. I didn't
ask for this. I talked about it in therapy, and
I just like people would just start calling me apologizing
for things, and my dad was one of them. But
(31:22):
then he took it all back see and turned it on. No.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I don't know who that therapist was, Jeffman, but I
will say this. I think true healing is not necessarily
learning how to accept i'm sorry. True healing is learning
how to move forward without ever hearing i'm sorry from
the people that owe it to you.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Well, the thing is, I was in a point where
I was holding grudges and people were trying to reach
out to me to apologize. I'm like, yet here, I'm
into my healing phase. Don't even try to come with
your demons. So she was trying to get me to
open up a space to be able to receive it
(32:08):
and see how I would respond.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
No, I think I think that's fair. I think that's fair.
But understand what I'm saying is true. Healing is moving
forward without an apology, because not everybody's going to give
you one, and in fact, oftentimes the people that should
give us an apology the most are the ones that don't.
So in order for me to heal and be a
healthy person, I've got to learn how to live without
(32:32):
the apology, because, as you stated, my dad was one
of those people to call it apologized.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I was saying, I much rather live without the apology
because I don't even want I don't want to talk
to anybody that I.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Really understand what I'm saying. If someone offers you an
apology and you feel like it's genuine apology, I want you,
I want you to accept it. But as you stated,
my dad apologized, but then he turned it against me.
Those are literally your exact word, right, Yeah, So true
healing is I don't need his apology in order to
(33:11):
be healthy. So I'm not saying reject people's apologies, accept
them when you feel like they're true and genuine. But
I am saying I might not ever get a real
apology from my father, but that shouldn't remove my ability
to be a happy, healthy person. Okay, even if it's
your dad. I wish my dad had responded in a
different way, but he didn't, So what am I gonna do.
(33:34):
It's been the next one hundred years resentful and angry. No.
I had to learn how to move forward, and I
had to realize it was not about me. I wish
my dad had said, I'm sorry, son, You're right, I
need to be better. Yes, I'll work as hard as
I can to follow those rules. Come here and give
me a hug. But that's not what he said. And
(33:57):
I wish your dad would stop creating your feelings. I
wish your dad would make you I.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Don't want to keep kicking a dead horse. But I'm
just like why. It's like, if that one person could
and it's so easy, such an easy fix, Why can't
they Why?
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I don't know, but he can't. I don't know why
he can't, but we have to live in the reality
which is presented to us. I don't know why he can't,
but I don't won't to even say that he can't.
I have to live in a world where he's not
doing it, and that's the reality that I'm facing with.
He is not doing it. So as long as he
(34:37):
is not doing it, then you have to accept the
reality presented to you, and it is okay for you
to have boundaries. In fact, I would say it's healthy
and important that you have boundaries.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Do you think it's worth even trying to find out
my dad's background and why he never chose to take
care of his like literally just lived his best life.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
That's a good question, Jasmine, And yeah, I think that
would be worth it, but you also risk further pain.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Really yes, because I'm trying to figure out how I
can just the grace I've been trying to give him.
He's pushing it, so I kind of find a different route, like,
all right, let me try to figure out why he.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
So you might find out something in his past. Right,
you might find out that from the ages of ten
to twenty, my dad was locked in a dungeon and
tortured by a kidnapper, and you'd be like, oh, that
makes sense, now I understand why he's had this massive trauma.
Or you might find out he just didn't care. You
might find out there's kind of nothing in his background
(35:46):
that's explanatory of why he's responding in this way.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Okay, you're hung up on but it's my dad, and
I'm trying very hard to let you drop that expectation.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I am because I've been there before and I know
how to do it. I know how to be like Dug,
I don't care that shit my dad. However, then I
went through losing my siblings and I've even been through
a stage. I hate to say this, but I wasn't
(36:20):
in a space to care if something happened to my dad.
I even was like, I'm not going to show up
to the funeral if something does happen, just and not
even out of spite, out of anything, just because I
wasn't at a space where I could handle another funeral
and I wasn't in a space to care enough. And
I thought that's how I was gonna always feel. But
(36:42):
once I started my healing journey and started finding all
these weird feelings, it's like reverting to something that I
should have felt a long time ago, which was trying
to have a bond with him. But because I see
it's not working, I don't even want I don't want
to go back to disrespect.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
And that is one hundred scent not what I'm saying.
I'm not saying go back to disrespecting him. I'm saying,
tell him, hey, you are my feelings right this this happens,
it hurts my feelings. I will not expose myself to
that anymore. Dad. I'd like you to stop doing those things.
And if you don't stop doing those things, I'm going
to make some changes in how I relate to you.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Okay, this is going to be so new, nervous to
say this, but I do want to see what his response.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
But I want to remind you it has got nothing
to do with his response.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
All right, right right.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I'm prepared either way. If he responds by saying, Okay,
I'm going to work on it, then good. I'm prepared
to forgive you and work on it. If he responds
by not caring and continue to do it, then good,
I'm prepared to show up differently.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Okay, got it.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
This is what healthy looks and feels like, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
I don't know if it was what type of therapy
I was listening to, but they were saying how healthy
hurts sometimes, and that was a big blow.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Well, healthy is hard. I wouldn't say healthy hurts, but
I would say healthy is hard.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Healthy is not easy. I don't know that healthy hurts,
but you know I think of healthy. Look, my favorite
food in the world is like lasagna. Should I eat
lasagna every day? No? Every now and then I have
to eat beets. This morning I had a kale salad.
(38:33):
Like sometimes you have to, like, I've got to do
the harder thing because it's healthy. And that's true physically,
you know. Like my favorite drink is what's called a
Pepsi Max raspberry and Pepsi Max. It's in Europe, and
I was in Europe a week ago and I saw
Pepsi Max Max. What did I do? I drink water.
Not because I can't make decisions based on what feels
(38:55):
good all the time. I have to make some decisions
based on what's healthy. And this is you making a
decision based on what's healthy. It won't feel good to
have this conversation with your dad, but it's healthy. It
might not feel good if he doesn't respond properly and
put you in a position where you have to implement
your boundary, but it's healthy.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
See. I want to drink the pepsi only because I
haven't had it in so long. But I'm just like
that I still can't even drink the PEPSI.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
You got to be healthy, and healthy requires consistent implementation
of health. You know what I'm saying, Like you might
have to consistently show up differently.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
And that's what is the I feel like that's going
to be the annoying part. Like listen, I told you.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
But remember only you're only having that I told you
once response because in your head you should have gotten
it because you're expecting a response from him. I'm saying,
let go of that expectation. Okay, right, you're getting annoyed
because I already told you that yesterday. But what if
you just let go of the expectation. I don't care
if he gets it or not, because I'm only in
(40:05):
charge of how I implement my boundary.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I'm gonna try.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
It good, Okay you ready, no, but I'm going to
do it.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Do it?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
How do you do it today? Do you find it
that useful? Yes?
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I want to talk directly to anyone listening who saw
themselves in Jasmine's story. If you're trying to have healthier relationships,
if you're managing emotions that feel overwhelming and unfamiliar, if
you're learning how to set boundaries without losing yourself then guilt.
This conversation was for you. One of the most important
(40:44):
troops we landed on today is this boundaries are not
about getting a different response from someone else. They're about
staying aligne with who you are becoming. Jasmine came into
the session clear about her goals to better herself, to
break generational curses, and to build healthy relationships with her siblings,
(41:05):
and what became clear is that none of those goals
require someone else to change firth. Healthy doesn't always feel good.
Healthy is often hard, but healthy is choosing the hard
that protects your peace instead of the hard that keeps
you stuck. So as you move forward, I want to
(41:26):
leave you with a few questions you can ask yourself
whenever these themes come up. Am I setting this boundary
to protect my growth or to get someone else to change?
(41:51):
What emotion am I trying to avoid by reacting instead
of pausing? If this person never changes, what do I
(42:11):
need to change about my access to them? Am I
measuring success by their response or by my honesty and integrity?
(42:39):
Do I truly need to understand someone's behavior to know
why it affects my peace and why my boundary is needed.
Which version of hard am I choosing right now? Hard
and healthy or hard and familiar. Remember you are not
(43:11):
responsible for managing other people's healing. You are responsible for
honoring your own. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
(43:35):
I would love to hear from you about your healing journey,
your family, and your feedback. Leave a review, send a DM,
connect with me on socials at Elliott Speaks, and you
can also send me a text message to nine seven
two four two six two six four zero. Family Therapy
is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect podcast Network.
Special thanks to our assistant Glendell Seppe. It's produced by
(43:57):
Jack Queise Thomas and the executive producer Dolly as Bishop.
For more podcasts from The Black Effect, visit the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The
content presented on the Family Therapy podcast serves solely for
educational and informational purposes. It should not be considered a
replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does
not constitute a provider patient relationship. It is advisable to
(44:20):
consult with your healthcare provider or health team for any
specific concerns or questions you may have,
I'm only a contract in this today's conversation is about
something that sounds simple but is anything but creating boundaries,
especially with people we're told we're supposed to love unconditionally.
In this session, Jasmine shares something powerful. Early on. She says,
(00:27):
I've still stood my ground, but I'm not being aggressive
like I used to be, and the outcome has been
calm and peaceful. For a lot of us, peace feels unfamiliar.
We're so used to backlast tension or conflict that when
it doesn't show up, we don't trust it. Jasmine is
(00:48):
learning how to pause instead of react, how to sit
with discomfort instead of firing back, how to stop giving
people the reaction they've been trained to expect from her.
And as she let's sit, I'm realizing I'm growing because
I'm willing to hear someone talk me out of rude
or disrespectful thoughts. But here's where the real work comes in.
(01:11):
This particular boundary she's trying to set isn't with a stranger.
It's with her father. And when family is involved, boundaries
can feel like betrayal, They can feel selfish, they can
feel wrong. So today we talk about what boundaries actually
are and what they're not. They're not ultimatoes, they're not
(01:31):
tools to change other people, and they're definitely not about
controlling someone else's behavior. They're about deciding what you will tolerate,
what you will participate in, and how you will protect
your healing even when the other person stays exactly the same.
Let's get into it, hey, Jeffrien, Hi, uh so, what's
(01:53):
been better since we last met?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
What I'll say has been better is I've used some
of your skill tactics and they've worked. But then I
feel like another issue arives.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Okay, well, before we get to that other issue, how
how do you know they've worked? Like? What did you notice?
I told you all right that that is working, that
is making a difference in a positive way.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I'm so what my battle was. I don't want to
be as aggressive as I used to be, and because
I've been silent for so long, I'm trying to figure
out how to say things nicely. I guess, and I've
noticed because I've still stood my grounds, not taken things
(02:42):
so offensively, the outcome isn't what I've expected, like a
lot of backlash. It's just very calm and peaceful.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Did you enjoy that, yes, How could you tell, like,
how did you know that you enjoyed being and peaceful?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Because I was waiting for a negative response. I was
waiting for backlash, and when I didn't receive it, it
was like, oh, okay, this is working, and I was
anxiety written from it.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
You had no fears or anxieties.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
No, And that's the different part.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Perfect anything else did you notice that? Let you know
that this was working well?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The last few days? Oh, today and yesterday I noticed
it was working because I was triggered and I almost
reverted back to my old ways. So right now I'm
kind of sitting in it at the moment.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
How did you how did you manage? You said? Almost so,
how did you manage not to revert back to your
old ways by not responding yet? Okay? But but how
like you haven't refonded yet. What did you tap into
to stop you from responding in the way that you
otherwise would have like the old way.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I text my sister, I text my system gladys and
let that I think disappointment. It was in regards to
my dad, our dad, and I just I guess vented
a bit to her to let the steam out so
(04:28):
I don't say anything disrespectful to him.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Okay, and you vented the Gladys? Yeah, how did she respond?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
She called me, but I didn't answer. Just this morning.
I didn't answer because I was still in my feelings
about it and a bit emotional. I don't like being
like that, so I didn't want. I haven't spoken to
her about it yet, which I probably would after this call.
I mean, after this session. But I also know I'm
(05:05):
growing because I'm willing to here somebody talk me out
of rude thoughts or disrespectful thoughts.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Did you vent to Gladys via text?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Okay, so she called you and you haven't responded.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, it was very early in the morning. What I'm
doing now is instead of responding so quickly, I'll sleep
on it, and if I still feel that way in
the morning, I'm going to act on it.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
You said, what I'm doing is when I have these feelings,
instead of acting on it, I sleep on it. And
that's not how you used to handle things, correct, right,
So tell me how you're doing that.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
What I've learned is people will poke you to get
the respond to give reason for their behavior or however
they're acting. Now that I'm not giving those responses. I'm
kind of just sitting in it. What I've been doing,
which I'm not sure has been effective, but I'm not
sure it's a solution. I haven't responded at all. I'll
(06:18):
just leave you alone and then just let time pass,
because I'd rather that than me say something disrespectful like
I used to. However, I felt whatever you wanted to
get out of me, I was going to give you
a double and I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Change is hard, jasline. And you are telling me that
you've managed to create a chain. How did you do that?
I know what you did, but I'm asking how have
you managed to do it?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Practice? Literally, Google, I even took a few of your
I'm in the fact, like literally, I've been studying therapy.
Even when I couldn't get therapy right away, I was like,
all right, well, let me do some self therapy. Let
me look up some breathing techniques, let me use all
(07:15):
the tools I already have instead of just trying to
rack up more tools.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Perfect, Okay, I love that. Because any change is a
good change. Any change, Oh yeah, of course, any change
is a good change. Okay, because any change disrupts the
old pattern.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Oh okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Okay, successfully disrupted the old pattern.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And it's funny that you say that is because what
I believe I'm offended by is that my father keeps
using the same patterns and the same tricks in regards
to how he communicates with us, specifically with me, And
(08:03):
I'm like, all right, I see he's not changing, and
I'm doing all this work. I don't want to revert
back to being disrespectful to give him the reason to
why he behaves this way, and that's extremely hard for me.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Right now, Okay, what would you like the most helped
with today? Because I know obviously there's something happening for
you and you're trying to decide how you're going to respond,
and you haven't responded yet, and you're trying to figure
it out. What would be the most useful way for
us to spend our time today?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Because I've thought about this, wondering if it's worth expressing
myself because I know there's not going to be changes
within the other person. I already know I'm changing, So
what why am I going to explain how I feel
(08:53):
and how he acts if he's just going to be offended?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
So Jasmine, can I ask you a very important question? Yes,
why are you changing for myself? To better myself and
especially to break generational curses? Okay? Can you explain to
me what his response has anything to do with those
(09:23):
two aims? So tell me how his response is relevant
to either of those two achievements.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Because I know if he gets the reaction out of
me that I've been trying to shy from and stay
clear from, I'm gonna be so hurt within myself and
disappointed with myself, even if it was one time, Even
if it was one time, that I tell him how
I really feel.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
You're talking about a reaction from you. That's your response,
I'm saying, tell me how his response has any thing
to do with your desires. They don't, exactly, they don't.
So why are you frustrated by him doing what he
always does? It has nothing to do with your achievements?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Okay, because it's aggerating.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It's aggratd. But I ask you what will probably be
the most important question I ask you today, which is, Jasmine,
tell me why you changed. And you gave me two
beautiful reasons, number one to improve myself and number two
to break generational curses. You did not say to get
a different response from my father. Okay, And Jasmine, I
(10:42):
want you to hear me when I'm about to say
and I've probably said I don't know if I've said
it to you before, but I say it often a
change for the purposes of someone else to change is manipulation.
It's not a change. So if you're saying, Elliot, my
feelings are hurt, Okay, then we can talk about how
(11:03):
to deal with your feelings being hurt. But we can't
talk about how to change his behavior because that's actually
not why you changed. And his behavior is actually none
of your business. It's not relevant to your purpose or mission.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
He's my dad, though. What my thing is is that
I'm offended that he expects to be a priority when
we've never been a priority. He takes so much, which
is also known, you know, like my siblings that I
want to become closer with. He takes all the glory
in that, like he raised all of us, and it's
(11:37):
like leave us alone.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
No, And look, I understand he's my dad. I would
prefer he not behaved poorly in this way, but him
being your dad doesn't make him healed. It doesn't make
it has nothing to do like, we have to accepit
people as they present themselves to us. The reason why
(12:06):
you have hurt feelings is because you have an expectation
based upon him being your dad, that he is not meeting.
So as a consequence of him not meeting this expectation,
you have hurt feelings. But I would say to you,
we have to accept people based on how they present
(12:27):
themselves to us. Whether they're dad's uncles, sisters, brothers, doesn't matter.
I have to accept him how he is presenting himself
to me.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Okay. So it feels like I have forgiven him and
I'm doing the work to not hold on to that.
But it's like he's he's the type to be like, yeah,
and I'm your father and you have to respect me,
And it's like, actually I don't. I'm choosing to be
(12:57):
my healing journey.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Okay, But again, I want you to continue to remind
yourself why, like I could give you this work, but
I'm choosing not to, And Jasmine, the reason I'm choosing
not to has nothing to do with you. I'm choosing
not to because I want to be a better person
and I want to break generational curses. So I'm I
could cuss you out, but I'm choosing not to because
(13:20):
these other two things are more important at the moment.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
How do I explain that to him?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It has nothing to do with him. Why would you
explain it to him? As a better question, it's.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Not that I am yearning for a daughter father.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But you're yearning for relationship. You're yearning for something that
is causing this because he may not understand that, you
know what I'm saying, Like, he may not get it.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I don't want. What I'm yearning for is for him
for at the least to not talk bad about your
kids because of the bond we have made. And it's like.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
He gets to talk bad about his kids if he
wants to. You, you have no control that. I wish
he wouldn't. I was all. Want to be clear, I
wish he wouldn't talk bad about his kids, But should
he choose to, you have no control over that, Okay,
in anything you do to try to get him to
stop doing that is manipulation.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
No, I don't get that, Like, how am I being
manipulating because I'm a vote, Like I don't want to
be manipulated?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Well, No, No, No, that's not why you That's not manipulation.
That's not what I'm saying. I think you're being very
strong by saying I don't want to be manipulated, so
I'm going to choose to change. I think you're being
very strong by that where it becomes manipulation when it's
like because in essence what you're asking me, Jasmine, which
by the way, is a good question, I understand why
you're asking that, and I really mean what I just said.
(14:46):
I admire you for the fact that you've changed the
first ten minutes of this conversation. Did you notice I
only asked you one question. I asked that one question
about six times, and the one question I asked you
was how are you doing this? And did you notice that?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay. The reason I asked you that is because I
understand change is hard. And then I ask you what
I think is the most important question I'm going to
say to you today, which is why are you making
these changes? And Jasmine, you gave me two beautiful answers. Amazing.
You said to improve myself and to break generational curses. Amazing.
(15:25):
I admire you for that, I respect you for that.
That is very important and hard to do. Thus you
should be acknowledged for how hard it is to do.
Now the additional part you're kind of saying, how do
I get him to stop talking bad about his kids?
And the answer is you can't. That has nothing to
do with it. That has nothing to do with him.
(15:46):
Like too often, we give boundaries with the expectation that
the person will respond to our boundaries and the way
that we want them to. But the truth is a
boundary is about you and what you will tolerate going forward.
It has got nothing to do with how the other
person will respond to the boundary. Should he talk bad
(16:08):
about his kids? No, I don't think you should talk
badly about his kids. Should he say awful things about
his kids.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And so on?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
No, I don't think he should. He care about hurting
his kids feelings, Yes, but you're not responsible to whether
or not he does those things or not. The only
thing you can say is I won't tolerate it. So
that's why I won't participate.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
In it, Okay. And I do want to mention I did,
for a long time have a grudge against my father,
but I let that go such a long time ago, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
And.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I don't want the fact that we're older and we're
trying to heal and get to know each other better.
I don't want him to ruin that for us.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Then I agree with you, and I think that's amazing
you would say that, But then it's your job to
not let him ruin it. You can't convince him to
stop doing something.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
My dad's Querto Rican, so he has the worst fomo.
So that's why I feel like when he sees like,
I don't know, because he's not a bad guy at all.
He's a great guy, not a good dad. He's not
the best dad, not the worst, but he's the best.
But it's like, I think it's like a fear of
missing out, but what he wants to be a part
(17:26):
of everything.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
What does his fomo have to do with you.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
He's our dad, He's a reason we're siblings. So it's like,
how can we leave him?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
You know, you have to make a choice, and the
choice is like, yeah, he's my dad. He hasn't always
been a great dad. Sometimes he hurts our feelings. And
then you said, I don't want him to ruin what
me and my siblings are trying to do as adults,
which is to get closer. So which one is it?
Do you want to give into your father's fomo or
(17:56):
do you want to focus on accomplishing the goal that
you have for you and your siblings, because you might
not be able to have both.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
It's crazy that you say that, because I feel like,
because I've done that, I've catered to his pomo, even
like going on road trips with him, which I'll never
do again. You know. It's like, I was so disappointed
at that, and that's all I know from that. I'm
scared that's going to happen again. So I don't know
(18:24):
how to detach from that in a sense without being.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Rude, though you do. You literally just said I've catered
into his fomo before I went on a road trip
with him, and then you edited yourself and you said,
and I'll never do that again. That's a boundary. Your
primary focus has got to be on the accomplishment of
the mission, and the mission is I want to better
(18:51):
myself and I want to break generational curses. And now
I'm going to add a third one because you added
the third thing, which is I want to get closer
to my siblings now that we're adults. Those are the
three things you're trying to accomplish, right, Yes, So I
don't care if it's your dad or the male man.
Nothing can be a threat to those three things.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It's okay. In hearing it out loud, it makes sense.
But just the pressure of thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, I mean, I totally understand. I understand personally by
the way that, Like, we want our fathers to behave
in a way that's congruent to being a father. We
want our parents to behave in a way that is
congruent being a good parent. But we have to accept
I'm not in charge of the quality that my parent
(19:41):
decides to be, Like, I'm not in charge of that.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Okay, So can I ask you a question? You set
your boundary with your dad, and let's say he wants
to redeem himself. You give him the opportunity to redeem himself,
but he's continues even like a sheep and wolf's clothing
(20:05):
and he shows his ass. How do you move on
from that? Like, how do you move on from that?
And you've and you've held onto that.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
However, you have to, okay, because it's got nothing to
do with you, Jasmine, it has to do with him.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
So what do you do with those feelings?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Like, okay, Jackman, if I rub poison I beyond my arm,
would you start itching? Might answer, But because it doesn't
make sense that I would own the symptomatology of your problem.
So like, how do you move on from those feelings
by reminding yourself?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Right? Right?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Right? I've got to remind myself. I've got nothing to
do with me. Here's more from my session with Jasmine.
My only job is to hold my boundary. Let me
explain what I mean by that. I'm gonna use a
personal story. But my father was an abusive person, is
(21:07):
an abusive person still alive, and he used to yell
at me, curse at me, hit me, and call me names.
And when I was nineteen years old, I was so
sad and depressed and couldn't handle it anymore. So I
said to my father, I want to have a relationship
with you, but you have to promise me that you
(21:29):
won't do these four things anymore. No yelling at me,
no cursing at me, no hitting me, no calling me names.
If you can follow those four rules, I think we
can have a healthy relationship going forward. But if you can't,
I'm gonna have to remove you from my life. And
I wrote him a nine page letter saying that I
(21:49):
said it to him on the phone, Jeffin, Do you
know what his response to me was? All I asked
was to have a father that didn't yell at me,
curse at me, call me names, or hit me. And
when I made that request, he said fuck you. So
I said, Okay, you've broken one of the rules. You
cursed at me. I have not spoken to him since,
(22:12):
and I'm forty eight years old. Now. You also asked
a really important question. You said, what if he tries
to redeem himself. There have been a couple of times
since that moment when I was nineteen and today when
I'm forty eight, where he's tried to redeem himself, but
to use your word, he has showed his ass. And
I had to say, Okay, the same boundary still exists.
(22:34):
And You're like, well, what do I do with those feelings?
I just remind myself it's about him, it's not about me.
I made a request that is a reasonable request. His
inability to fulfill that request has nothing to do with me,
So I don't own his behavior. It has nothing to
do with me. Okay, does that make.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Sense absolutely, and I think I'm realizing I'm thinking to myself,
like I don't have this issue, Like it's not a
hard thing to cut people off for me. However, when
it's my immediate family, it is literally heartbreaking. And I
think it has to do a lot with grief that
(23:16):
I'm still trying to understand and get through. But I
know it is so healing to let go of hurt
and especially the people that are hurting you. But it
is hard.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
No, yes, it is hard. It is very, very difficult.
But I had to choose me, Like at some point
I had to say, okay, because like jafsman, it's gonna
be hard either way, so why not do like the
healthy hard instead of the unhealthy heart Because I had
(23:51):
a father that yelled at me, cursed at me, hit me,
and called me names, So it was gonna be hard
either way. So I just decided I'm going to choose
the that's associated with healthy. So even though it was
hard to say to him, you don't have access to
me anymore until you stop breaking those rules. That was
probably the hardest thing I've ever done in my life,
(24:13):
but it was healthy unhealthy. Is you thinking that your responsibility.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
It's stressful. The unrealie and the unhealthy way literally stresses
my body. The unreal and the unhealthy way literally stresses
my body. I can feel it.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I absolutely get that. But your responsibility is to Jasmine.
I can't worry about my dad's behavior. I can let
him know his behavior is bothering me. I can let
him know that his behavior hurts my feelings. But I'm
not responsible to how he responds. The only power I
have is in how I enforce the boundary.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
So moving forward, I was thinking about asking chat GPT,
how would so my dilemma is my father. You know,
he'll call me perfusely when he needs a favor, and
I already knew that was going to be the situation,
and then he'll make me feel guilty. He does it
(25:17):
to all of us if we don't come through. I'm
trying to figure out how to respond to that by
because I'm offend. Okay, I'm offended. That's why I'm going wrong.
But it's like, why would you ever think you would
be a priority to me? When you you you still
don't make us a priority. So it's like, how do
I say that in a nice way?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
What's wrong with exactly how you just said it.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
That would be rude.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Apparently you just said, I'm offended that you have the
expectation I would treat you like a priority when you
don't treat us like a priority. That's what you said, right,
That is verbatim what you said. Correct. What's wrong with that?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Literally? To be quite honest, I literally just had so
many ravensome moments of what will happen in them?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Remember, you're not responsible to how he responds, but Jasmine,
that is your authentic truth. Right? What if you said
to your dad, So I'm gonna give you two variables here,
what if you said to your father, I wish I
could help you, but I'm offended that you expect me
(26:29):
to make you a priority when all I've ever wanted
my entire life was to be a priority to you.
So if we can ever sort that out, I would
happily help you, But until then, I'm going to say
no to your requests. And what if you said something
like that, which is literally what you just said. I
(26:49):
just kind of doctored it a little, and then you
don't measure the success of that statement by how he
responds or not. You measure the success of the statement
by how true and genuine it was to you.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Because I'm gonna be honest. I honestly told Gladys so
she can handle it. Now I'm thinking, you know, dang,
this is it is your responsibility.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I do believe it is your responsibility. I don't believe
it is Gladyses. I think it is your responsibility.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Okay, okay, okay, okay, because I keep in my head,
I keep saying, but what if?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
But what I but Okay, So remember I told you
very personal thing that I told my dad, Please don't yell,
let me hit me and call me names or cursing.
And his response was fuck you. That was literally his response.
I hope you're not offended by me cursing because that
was that was verbatim his response. That doesn't mean that
my statement was not effective, because I actually felt very
(27:49):
successful because I told my truth and I told my
truth to who, at the time was the scariest person
in my life. I've never been more proud of myself.
I feel, Jasmine that you're determining your success based upon
does Dad acknowledge what I said in a healthy way
or not? And I'm trying to tell you That is
(28:10):
not your responsibility, nor is that how you should determine
whether or not successful or not. The success is did
I tell my truth? And if Dad, if he says,
what I hate you and I hate all the kids
and I'm gonna punch you in the nose if he
responds like that, that doesn't mean that your attempt was
a failure, as long as what you said was your
(28:32):
authentic truth.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Okay, it's just gonna be rough. I already know it.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Well, if it's going to be rough, then we have
to roll up our sleeves and do something difficult. Right.
No one said being healthy was easy, Jasmine. But remember
I can deal with the hard, which is placating to
my dad and being anxious and all of the things
(28:59):
that you said earlier, or I can do the hard
but healthy and live in my truth.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Okay, it's gonna be hard, reguideless.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
He's gonna be hard regardless. But wouldn't you rather do
hard healthy versus hard unhealthy?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And I think that's still new to me. I think
I thought I was doing it the healthy way by
when I started to change, and just to ignore, I
guess there's healthier.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Well, yeah, I mean the healthiest thing is to face
it and live in your truth, which means I might
have to say things that my dad won't like hearing.
I've done that before, right, So I might have to
say some stuff that you know he's not gonna love,
but I'm gonna say it because it's my truth and
(29:50):
I'm deciding to live in my truth.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And it's just like it's a bit of a hard
concept because I thought all these years, all thirty nine,
I thought I'd been living in my truth. So the
adjustment is like life.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
No, I think you were living in a lie. But
I think there were times, rather than live in your truth,
you prioritized his feelings and emotions to the detriment of
your ambitions, which again are three very noble things. I
want to be a better version of myself. I want
to break generational curses, and in adulthood, I want to
get closer to my siblings. There were times where you
(30:31):
had those three things you were trying to do, but
you put your father's moved ahead of yours, ahead of
your ambitions.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yes, that's absolutely true. During my healing journey, because I've
been in therapy, at one point i'd have to be
okay with accepting sories like during my therapy and who
I would want sories from. And I got a lot
(31:00):
of sorries I didn't expect. But the one that I
thought and did expect was my dad and the way
he turned it against me. And it was so weird.
It literally felt it was all God sent. I didn't
ask for this. I talked about it in therapy, and
I just like people would just start calling me apologizing
for things, and my dad was one of them. But
(31:22):
then he took it all back see and turned it on. No.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I don't know who that therapist was, Jeffman, but I
will say this. I think true healing is not necessarily
learning how to accept i'm sorry. True healing is learning
how to move forward without ever hearing i'm sorry from
the people that owe it to you.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Well, the thing is, I was in a point where
I was holding grudges and people were trying to reach
out to me to apologize. I'm like, yet here, I'm
into my healing phase. Don't even try to come with
your demons. So she was trying to get me to
open up a space to be able to receive it
(32:08):
and see how I would respond.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
No, I think I think that's fair. I think that's fair.
But understand what I'm saying is true. Healing is moving
forward without an apology, because not everybody's going to give
you one, and in fact, oftentimes the people that should
give us an apology the most are the ones that don't.
So in order for me to heal and be a
healthy person, I've got to learn how to live without
(32:32):
the apology, because, as you stated, my dad was one
of those people to call it apologized.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I was saying, I much rather live without the apology
because I don't even want I don't want to talk
to anybody that I.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Really understand what I'm saying. If someone offers you an
apology and you feel like it's genuine apology, I want you,
I want you to accept it. But as you stated,
my dad apologized, but then he turned it against me.
Those are literally your exact word, right, Yeah, So true
healing is I don't need his apology in order to
(33:11):
be healthy. So I'm not saying reject people's apologies, accept
them when you feel like they're true and genuine. But
I am saying I might not ever get a real
apology from my father, but that shouldn't remove my ability
to be a happy, healthy person. Okay, even if it's
your dad. I wish my dad had responded in a
different way, but he didn't, So what am I gonna do.
(33:34):
It's been the next one hundred years resentful and angry. No.
I had to learn how to move forward, and I
had to realize it was not about me. I wish
my dad had said, I'm sorry, son, You're right, I
need to be better. Yes, I'll work as hard as
I can to follow those rules. Come here and give
me a hug. But that's not what he said. And
(33:57):
I wish your dad would stop creating your feelings. I
wish your dad would make you I.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Don't want to keep kicking a dead horse. But I'm
just like why. It's like, if that one person could
and it's so easy, such an easy fix, Why can't
they Why?
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I don't know, but he can't. I don't know why
he can't, but we have to live in the reality
which is presented to us. I don't know why he can't,
but I don't won't to even say that he can't.
I have to live in a world where he's not
doing it, and that's the reality that I'm facing with.
He is not doing it. So as long as he
(34:37):
is not doing it, then you have to accept the
reality presented to you, and it is okay for you
to have boundaries. In fact, I would say it's healthy
and important that you have boundaries.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Do you think it's worth even trying to find out
my dad's background and why he never chose to take
care of his like literally just lived his best life.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
That's a good question, Jasmine, And yeah, I think that
would be worth it, but you also risk further pain.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Really yes, because I'm trying to figure out how I
can just the grace I've been trying to give him.
He's pushing it, so I kind of find a different route, like,
all right, let me try to figure out why he.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
So you might find out something in his past. Right,
you might find out that from the ages of ten
to twenty, my dad was locked in a dungeon and
tortured by a kidnapper, and you'd be like, oh, that
makes sense, now I understand why he's had this massive trauma.
Or you might find out he just didn't care. You
might find out there's kind of nothing in his background
(35:46):
that's explanatory of why he's responding in this way.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Okay, you're hung up on but it's my dad, and
I'm trying very hard to let you drop that expectation.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I am because I've been there before and I know
how to do it. I know how to be like Dug,
I don't care that shit my dad. However, then I
went through losing my siblings and I've even been through
a stage. I hate to say this, but I wasn't
(36:20):
in a space to care if something happened to my dad.
I even was like, I'm not going to show up
to the funeral if something does happen, just and not
even out of spite, out of anything, just because I
wasn't at a space where I could handle another funeral
and I wasn't in a space to care enough. And
I thought that's how I was gonna always feel. But
(36:42):
once I started my healing journey and started finding all
these weird feelings, it's like reverting to something that I
should have felt a long time ago, which was trying
to have a bond with him. But because I see
it's not working, I don't even want I don't want
to go back to disrespect.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
And that is one hundred scent not what I'm saying.
I'm not saying go back to disrespecting him. I'm saying,
tell him, hey, you are my feelings right this this happens,
it hurts my feelings. I will not expose myself to
that anymore. Dad. I'd like you to stop doing those things.
And if you don't stop doing those things, I'm going
to make some changes in how I relate to you.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Okay, this is going to be so new, nervous to
say this, but I do want to see what his response.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
But I want to remind you it has got nothing
to do with his response.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
All right, right right.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I'm prepared either way. If he responds by saying, Okay,
I'm going to work on it, then good. I'm prepared
to forgive you and work on it. If he responds
by not caring and continue to do it, then good,
I'm prepared to show up differently.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Okay, got it.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
This is what healthy looks and feels like, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
I don't know if it was what type of therapy
I was listening to, but they were saying how healthy
hurts sometimes, and that was a big blow.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Well, healthy is hard. I wouldn't say healthy hurts, but
I would say healthy is hard.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Healthy is not easy. I don't know that healthy hurts,
but you know I think of healthy. Look, my favorite
food in the world is like lasagna. Should I eat
lasagna every day? No? Every now and then I have
to eat beets. This morning I had a kale salad.
(38:33):
Like sometimes you have to, like, I've got to do
the harder thing because it's healthy. And that's true physically,
you know. Like my favorite drink is what's called a
Pepsi Max raspberry and Pepsi Max. It's in Europe, and
I was in Europe a week ago and I saw
Pepsi Max Max. What did I do? I drink water.
Not because I can't make decisions based on what feels
(38:55):
good all the time. I have to make some decisions
based on what's healthy. And this is you making a
decision based on what's healthy. It won't feel good to
have this conversation with your dad, but it's healthy. It
might not feel good if he doesn't respond properly and
put you in a position where you have to implement
your boundary, but it's healthy.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
See. I want to drink the pepsi only because I
haven't had it in so long. But I'm just like
that I still can't even drink the PEPSI.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
You got to be healthy, and healthy requires consistent implementation
of health. You know what I'm saying, Like you might
have to consistently show up differently.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
And that's what is the I feel like that's going
to be the annoying part. Like listen, I told you.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
But remember only you're only having that I told you
once response because in your head you should have gotten
it because you're expecting a response from him. I'm saying,
let go of that expectation. Okay, right, you're getting annoyed
because I already told you that yesterday. But what if
you just let go of the expectation. I don't care
if he gets it or not, because I'm only in
(40:05):
charge of how I implement my boundary.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I'm gonna try.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
It good, Okay you ready, no, but I'm going to
do it.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Do it?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
How do you do it today? Do you find it
that useful? Yes?
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I want to talk directly to anyone listening who saw
themselves in Jasmine's story. If you're trying to have healthier relationships,
if you're managing emotions that feel overwhelming and unfamiliar, if
you're learning how to set boundaries without losing yourself then guilt.
This conversation was for you. One of the most important
(40:44):
troops we landed on today is this boundaries are not
about getting a different response from someone else. They're about
staying aligne with who you are becoming. Jasmine came into
the session clear about her goals to better herself, to
break generational curses, and to build healthy relationships with her siblings,
(41:05):
and what became clear is that none of those goals
require someone else to change firth. Healthy doesn't always feel good.
Healthy is often hard, but healthy is choosing the hard
that protects your peace instead of the hard that keeps
you stuck. So as you move forward, I want to
(41:26):
leave you with a few questions you can ask yourself
whenever these themes come up. Am I setting this boundary
to protect my growth or to get someone else to change?
(41:51):
What emotion am I trying to avoid by reacting instead
of pausing? If this person never changes, what do I
(42:11):
need to change about my access to them? Am I
measuring success by their response or by my honesty and integrity?
(42:39):
Do I truly need to understand someone's behavior to know
why it affects my peace and why my boundary is needed.
Which version of hard am I choosing right now? Hard
and healthy or hard and familiar. Remember you are not
(43:11):
responsible for managing other people's healing. You are responsible for
honoring your own. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
(43:35):
I would love to hear from you about your healing journey,
your family, and your feedback. Leave a review, send a DM,
connect with me on socials at Elliott Speaks, and you
can also send me a text message to nine seven
two four two six two six four zero. Family Therapy
is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect podcast Network.
Special thanks to our assistant Glendell Seppe. It's produced by
(43:57):
Jack Queise Thomas and the executive producer Dolly as Bishop.
For more podcasts from The Black Effect, visit the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The
content presented on the Family Therapy podcast serves solely for
educational and informational purposes. It should not be considered a
replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does
not constitute a provider patient relationship. It is advisable to
(44:20):
consult with your healthcare provider or health team for any
specific concerns or questions you may have,
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