August 6, 2026 • 33 mins
Kal sits down with psychotherapist Elliott Connie — host of the iHeartPodcast Family Therapy — to talk about Kevin Hart's Audible Original memoir Kids Make Me Angry.
It's a funny, heartfelt conversation about breaking cycles, healthy masculinity, and why the right question can change everything.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Each
episode I dive into an audiobook with a special guest.
This season has been all fiction so far, but today
we're switching it up. We're going nonfiction with an Audible
original memoir written and performed by Kevin Hart. It's called
Kids Make Me Angry, and it's a funny, heartfelt, honest
(00:25):
look at one of the hardest jobs there is, parenting.
He explores what he's learned about how to do fatherhood
and also, just as importantly, what he's learned not to do.
It's about patience, teaching, and sometimes figuring out how to
let go on the show with me to talk about
(00:45):
Kevin Heart's Kids Make Me Angry is psychotherapist and host
of the iHeart podcast Family Therapy Elliot Connie Elliot, Welcome
to yours say thank you. Yeah, of course, So before
we get into this new Audible original, I wanted to
(01:05):
talk a little bit about you. You practice something called
solutions focused brief therapy. Can you tell us a little
bit about what that means?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah? I mean, how much time do you have, you know,
solution focused brief therapy. I'll be as quick as I can,
but also as informative as I can be. When I
was in graduate school, I was introduced to the idea
of psychotherapy and how to do it, and I was
very disheartened because all therapy is about the problem. You
(01:36):
study narcissism, depression, anxiety, addiction, but none of that actually
leads towards change. That just tells you how to know
about a problem. So, being someone who wanted to help
people move from narcissism, addiction, and anxiety whatever to a better,
stronger life, I kept thinking, how do you actually create change?
And in one book, literally two pages, there was this
(01:59):
thing focused brief therapy, which is a way of doing
therapy that's about helping your client to identify and create
their hope for future. And I just thought, man, that's
what therapy should all be about, is how do we
have hope for a different future and then make decisions
and make changes in our life that make that future
become our reality. And I was absolutely hooked. So I
(02:22):
started dedicating my life to studying it. Then I graduated,
and I've written several books about it, and I now
travel the world teaching it and now do a lot
of teaching online and reach one hundred and thousands and
million of people doing it.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
That is very cool.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
The second question, then, is so this audiobook begins with
Kevin Hart's story about how his own father was like
the opposite of a good dad, although he was able
to become a pretty good grandfather. And there's a lot
of discourse today about healing from the things that our
own parents did. Are those conversations something that you spend
a lot of your therapy hours on with your approach?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, yes, But I would say differently than in traditional psychotherapy. Yeah,
because a lot of times in traditional psychotherapy we'd have
to talk about the pain and the trauma and the
horrible things that the dad might have done. But in
this way of therapy, I'm much more likely to ask
questions like this is an example. If Kevin were sitting here,
(03:23):
and let's say he were sitting here and he was
struggling with the pain and difficulty caused by his father's
difficult behavior, I would ask him, if you had had
the most ideal father, how do you imagine your life
would be different today? And let's say he said, I'd
be happier, I'd be calmer, I'd be safer, I'd be
(03:46):
a better dad, myself. Whatever. I would say, Well, suppose
suppose you work, go tomorrow and you were all of
those things in spite of your difficult past, how would
you notice that you'd found a way to become all
of those things in spite of the past challenges. And
through that conversation he would be able to start thinking
about regardless of my past, it is my responsibility to
(04:10):
create a new future. Another kind of question that I
would be likely to ask him is what things are
you grateful for having had the exact kind of father
that you had? And I have a very very similar
background with my dad, And like my dad and mom
(04:30):
got divorced, my father didn't struggle with addiction, but he
was a very angry, abusive, aggressive man, And obviously I
wish that, you know, ten year old, fifteen year old,
twelve year old Elliott didn't have to deal with those things.
But now in adulthood, there were some very valuable lessons
that I carry with me that I'm actually very thankful
for the kind of father that I had. So we
(04:52):
need to stop thinking in like these dichotomies where it's
like good bad and realize like, no matter what father
you had or what mother you had. There are very,
very very positive things that came from those experiences, and
it's up to us to utilize those.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Sens that's very empowering.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
This audiobook is called Kids Make Me Angry, and in truth,
it's a very loving story. It seems like there's something
in there about how anger and love and hurt those
feelings sort of like are different faces of one another.
And maybe this has to do with Kevin Hart being
an actor, but he talks about parenting in terms of tone.
There's a fun dad voice, a loving dad voice, a
(05:30):
serious dad voice.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Play a clip real quick.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
When each of my kids turned about two years old,
I say no, and they wouldn't listen. So I played
with the volume of my voice how I said something
am my mannerisms. It turned out to be much harder
than acting, because a two year old child is much
pickier than a fifty year old director. For each of
my kids, there's the fun dad tone when the goal
is play and connection and bending the rules together a
(05:55):
little bit. Well, there's a loving dad tone when I
want them to know the most important message of all.
Then there's a serious dad tone when it needs to
be a little respect and discipline and it was incredible
to me how much we could accomplish with that.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
So he's speaking from personal experience and POV, but you
are the actual expert. This idea that what you say
matters maybe less than how you say it, or just
going back to the maybe escaping the good bad dichotomy,
what is the it for the how you say something
in conjunction with what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
The rule of thumb whenever you're parenting or any kind
of meaningful relationship that you want to stay strong is
being authentic. So if you're irritated, sound irritated, if you're happy,
sound happy, if you love your children, make sure that
there's love in the message. And love sounds a whole
(06:51):
bunch of different ways, like you might have had a
really really difficult day at work, you might have had
something incredibly stressful happening, and you might come home and
be accidental, short and irritated with your children. Well, love
sounds like an apology later. Love sounds like letting your
children know that wasn't about you and it wasn't your mistake.
Love sounds like humility, like being authentic and letting your
(07:15):
children know that they always matter. Is without question the
guiding force behind all communication. Now Kevin is right, and
that tone matters. He was referring to fun dad and
serious dad. That's true, but that's not something we can
always control, and if we attempt to control it, it
becomes very confusing for the child because as you're like
(07:37):
being fun dad voice, a nine year old isn't gonna
pick up on those nuances. A nine year old might
be in play mode when you're in very serious dad mode.
So the rule of thumb is always be loving and
always be authentic.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
There's a whole chapter that Kevin calls the Third Parent,
which is all about technology. I don't have kids, but
I am the fun uncle. I'm the responsible uncle. You know,
baby said a lot, but I baby said enough that
this idea of the third parent. You know, if you're
watching your niece and nephew for a week on end,
is this It's all technology. It's YouTube influencers, TV shows
(08:12):
raising kids alongside in Kevin's Caseym and his wife. There
are prank videos telling kids to go smash their mom's car.
There's his daughter picking up a British accent from Pet
the Pig, which, by the way, I feel like every
kid of a certain age says certain words with a
British accent because of pet the pig, namely the name George.
If they don't know a George in real life, it's
(08:33):
always George.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
How do you counsel parents who feel like they're co
parenting with an algorithm that they can't see.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I would say that you're not coparing with a an
algorithm that you can't see. Parents have always had to
deal with external influences to what's going on around their children,
and right now social media is just another one of
those external influences. So I would say, stay connected to
your children and have conversations with your children. And it's
(09:04):
the same rules now as it was before. Like, for example,
I'll give you an example of a failure of my father,
and I'll use this as an example for everybody listening
to not to do what I'm about to say, and
this will help address this algorithm thing that all of
us need to be thinking about. Okay, but we shouldn't
be thinking about it as like co parenting with the algorithm.
We should be thinking about how to impact the influences
(09:26):
of our children. My dad used to tell me when
I was growing up, if anybody ever offers you drugs,
I want you to come let me know. If you
go to school and someone offers you drugs or alcohol,
I want you to let me know. I want you
to tell me. And then, sure enough, when I was
in the seventh grade, it happened. I went to school
and some kid offered me alcohol and drugs, and I
(09:49):
was like, okay, I've been taught this is bad. I've
been taught I'm not supposed to do this, and I've
been taught I'm supposed to talk about this moment with
my parents, specifically my father. So I went home. Seventh
grade kid, I went home and I said, Dad, guess
what happened today? This kid offered me a marijuana and alcohol,
(10:09):
and my father lost it on me and beat me
what for having bad kids around me.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Oh wow, okay, so what do you.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Think The lesson I learned was I can't tell you anything.
You told me to come tell you. I didn't take
the drugs or alcohol. I came and told you and
ended up in a massively negative experience for me. So
I never told that dude anything again. So the same
thing is true. Now you should talk to your children
(10:40):
in a way that makes them feel safe to come
and talk to you, because they need to come and
say to you, Hey, I saw this thing online. Can
we talk about it? I found this Instagram page. What
do you think of it? You need to have that
kind of open experience with your children so that you
could parent it. To think about it as a co
parent gives the algorithm way too much power and influence.
(11:03):
What the algorithm is. It's just like another experience that
gives your children an opportunity to learn stuff that you
either do or do not want them to learn. The
simple truth is, the world is very different when I
was growing up, even younger than the experience I just
told you. When I was in elementary school, both my
parents worked when we lived together before they got a divorce,
(11:25):
separate elms. But we used to watch this TV show
called Three's Company because my parents. When I got home
from school, my parents were both at work. My older
brother was in charge me and then my younger brother,
and we watch Three's Company. And I will never forget
one day I'm sitting on the couch with my two
brothers watching Three's Company. My mother comes home from work
and she's got a jacket on. She's got her bag
(11:48):
over her shoulder, she opens the door. She walks through
the living room where three sons are watching this show.
And we were like nine, seven and five somewhere in
that area, and my mother stopped and she looked into
tublevidion form minute. She said, what do you guys watching?
And my older brother said, this really funny show called
Three's Company. And my mother said, what's it about? And
my older brother said, that guy right there, he lives
(12:11):
with these two girls, and it's just about all these
funny adventures. My mother watched that show for about a
minute with us, and then she said, you guys can't
watch that anymore, and we never saw it again. That
was it. I never saw another episode of Three's Company. Now,
the sad reality is parents don't have that level of
control anymore. If that happened today, I could watch Three's
(12:34):
Company on YouTube. I can find clips of Three's Company.
I can go to school and let one of my
friends I can watch it on their cell phone. Like,
you can't keep it out. So we have to be
able to talk about what our children are learning, and
we have to be able to talk about how they're
learning it. And we also have to like does it
really matter because the opposite is equally true. Col does
it really matter if your child is pronouncing George like
(12:57):
a British person because I watched Peppa Pig, No, because
the opposite is equally true. I have friends in England.
I'm travel to England very often to give lectures. They're
upset that their children are watching keeping Up with the
Kardashians and speaking with an American accent.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Oh right, yeah, But at.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
The end of the day, it doesn't really matter, and
it all comes out.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
In the Washington Yeah. I like that story.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I can also relate to it because my mom didn't
love CosIng Wood watch for his company after school.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
So when you said to his company, I don't know
if you caught me, I was like, oh, of course.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
And then you know, very similar story and like a
great example of your right. You know, the touch points
that kids have now are quite wide and it's not
just okay, mom says not to do this.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So that's the end of it.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
On the parenting to Kevin Hart is he's earnest, he's
vulnerable in this audiobook, very openly emotional about being a father.
And you've spoken a lot about healthy masculinity. What does
that mean in the context of how you've spoken about it,
and how does it apply to a book like Kevin's
where he's sort of modeled this out loud in his
own way.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I mean one of the things I command Kevin for doing,
because he's done it on stage, he's done it in
this book. Healthy masculinity is showing the whole breath of
the human experience through the lens of a man. What
happens often in masculinity is men have a responsibility to
not show the whole breath of the human experience, Like
we can't show sadness, fear, vulnerability, because those things are
(14:26):
viewed as not being like manly. But the truth is,
like they're all part of the human experience, and children
need to see that a man cries, a man gets sad,
a man has fear. We have to be able to
see those things or as we're holding something very vulnerable back.
A sun needs to see that it's okay to shed
(14:48):
tears and be sad and be happy and all those things.
A daughter needs to see that it's okay for a
man to have all of those experiences. And I think
it's really important for someone like Kevin, who is successful
and does look like success, but he also looks masculine.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
M There's a chapter in there that to me ties
into this. It's about letting go, and it starts with
Kevin's mom dying of cancer. His point is that he
was prepared for that. He asked hard questions so that
when it came it it's not that it didn't hurt less,
but it was a little easier. And then he says
the you know, the thing he wasn't prepared for was
(15:29):
dropping his daughter off at her dorm. And it ties
into what you just said about the full breath of
the human experience. He lets his daughter see him cry
in that dorm room on purpose, right, And I assume
from what you just said that is not a burden
but a gift to his kid.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It is a gift to his child. Yes, because number one,
think about what that daughter knows and that moment, about
how important she is to him that she otherwise I
wouldn't know if he had held back that emotion, Like
she knows I matter to this guy. She knows that
(16:08):
like this is an important moment for not just me,
but for him, and she knows a very real experience
of what love is and that stuff matters. Now. I
don't know his daughter, so let's imagine that she's one
day going to marry a man. She now knows that
it's okay for a man to love her in such
(16:30):
a way that produces tears, it's okay for her future
partner to love their children in a way that produces tears.
And all of that would not have been overt had
Kevin held it, held it, held it, held it in,
and then when he had gotten the car, cried by himself.
That is powerful and super important.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Very well said, all right, Elliott, we're going to take
a short break. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It is time for a plot twist where our questions
get a little more personal. I'll play you another clip
in a second. Kevin imagines someone pulling him aside during
his wife's pregnancy to say something.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
There may be anger coming your way, and you will
be very, very tempted to take it personally. Every fiber
of your being will want to try to talk things through,
or even worse, argue things through. But using logic here
is like using a sword to shave with. You're gonna
get hurt, She's gonna get hurt. Everyone's gonna be hurt.
(17:41):
Just stay in your lane and let it roll, and
in the back of your head know that you might
be on a nine month roller coaster ride, but what's
waiting for you at the end is so amazing. The
gift of a child is the best gift there is.
All you gotta do is remember one thing. It's not
about you. You got it. It's not about you.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Is I think a piece of advice that I had
to learn in different different iterations of different things in
the chapter of my life. What's a piece of blunt,
unsolicited advice you wish someone had given you before a
big life transition.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Wow, I wish I wish someone had told me earlier
in life that perspective matters. That's what I wish. The
way you view something has a greater impact in how
you respond to that something than the actual something itself. Oh,
(18:40):
that's what I wish. And I wish more people knew that.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Okay, I wish more people knew that. That's very well said, and.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I want to make it really clear. Can I give
an example of what I mean?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
So I am a fan of Kevin Hawks, and I
really appreciate how that you would for whatever reason, choose
me to be somebody to do it then interview about
this project, and I view that as a tremendous compliment.
So for now on in my head, you are now
col that invited me onto this platform to talk about
someone for whom I'm a fan of. So that means,
(19:12):
let's say you and I cross paths a month from now,
we're at an event somewhere perhaps, and we're walking down
the hallway and we bumped shoulders. Sometimes it's like, oh,
that idiot wasn't watching where he was going, or that
person was rude, or even they bumped me on purpose,
which means I now need to retaliate in some sort
of way. But if I remember that perspective, like no, no, no,
(19:35):
that's Cal that invited me onto that platform to do
this thing, then I automatically have significantly more patience for
the action and I don't have to respond in any
other way other than maybe Cal was having a bad day,
or maybe he's not an idiot, maybe he was just
not looking at that particular moment. And now I don't
(19:55):
treat Cal in any negative way because I hold on
to perspective that that's how who valued me enough to
have me on his platform, so then I don't have
to respond in any kind of negative way, because perspective matters.
And the good news about that is perspective is one
hundred ft up to me. I can choose to have
a perspective that honors the other person. And I wish
more people knew that.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
That was very that made me. I'm going to spend
the rest of the day thinking about that. The phrase
use your words had a full circle moment in Kevin's
life when his kids started using it on him. When
has a family member, or a friend, or even a
client turned your own advice back on you, Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
My gosh, I'm a psychotherapist. It happens ten times a
day to me because it's absolutely true, you know, because
none of us are perfect. We're all flawed in some
sort of way.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I talked to clients constantly about like treating your future well.
And I remember one time I was talking to a
client about like, if you were making decisions today that
your future self would be thankful for, what kind of
decision would you start making? And it was a tremendously
impactful session. The client was like, man, I'd stopped drinking
(21:08):
and what would you do instead, you know, I'd exercise,
and I'd treat my wife better, just all these things.
And next to me on my desk while I was
doing that session was a soda, a can of soda.
And we get to the end of the session and
my client said, when you're going to start taking your
own advice? And I said, I what do you mean?
When are you talking about? And he said, do you
(21:30):
think the version of you a year from now will
be happy or unhappy that you're drinking a mountain do?
And I was like, that's actually a solid point. Yeah,
that's actually a solid point. So that kind of thing
happens in the life of a psychotherapist a hundred times
a day. It never doesnet that I stoppeddrinking. I haven't
anisoda in three years. Oh amazing, because I'm constantly like,
(21:52):
I don't want to look and or sound like a hypocrite,
so I try my best to honor who I am
in other people's lives.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Kevin's daughter went through a phase of talking like Peppa
Pig and demanding to jump in muddy puddles. What's a
piece of media that shaped little kid Elliott? Besides Three's Company,
that you're either proud of or slightly embarrassed to admit.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Now, I'll tell you this is probably going to get
deeper than you wanted to, but I can't. I can't
help it.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Great.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I spent a lot of my childhood suicidal because of
the way my dad was treating me and how it
just removed power and identity and it made life nearly unbearable.
And then one day I came home from school. It's
one hundred ridiculous. I'm proud of it and embarrassed by it,
(22:46):
but it is one of the moments that saved my life. Honestly,
I came home from school. I believe I was twelve
years old, and do you remember the incident that happened
in Tianuman Square. Of course, yeah, an image that went
all over the news. It was going viral. Before going
viral was a thing of There was a Chinese student
(23:06):
holding two shopping bags, standing in front of a tank,
and the tank was moving towards him, and that Chinese
student was willing to die that day, the Chinese students
stand in front of the tank, willing to be run over.
And here I am twelve years old, and I'm really,
(23:28):
really at a low point in my life because I
didn't believe in anything, and nothing mattered and nothing in
any value. And I remember watching that Chinese student, twelve
year old kid, thinking to myself, I have no idea
what has compelled him to stand in front of a tank.
I don't know what he believes in to such a
degree that he's willing to be run over by a
(23:52):
tank due to that belief. But I want that. I
want that so bad. I want to believe in something
so badly that I will stand in front of a
tank for that belief. Wow. And I decided in that moment,
I need to I started searching for that. I started.
(24:12):
I didn't know that like self confidence and self assurance
and self identity to that degree existed, and that moment
sent me on a search for it. It took me
a while to find it. It took me maybe a
decade to find it, but I that moment changed my
life for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
That's powerful. Yeah, and I remember that both the image
and the video. I think there was a video, right,
there was a Yeah, there was a video. Yeah, that's RK.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
You t how the tank was moving?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
So Kevin has this chapter on dadisms what's uh? What's
an elliotism? Maybe it's a line you catch yourself saying
often in a session, either to make progress or create
a moment of joy. Is there assistinct ism that you that.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
You go with?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, you're always one question away from changing your life
by someone else's th life. A question the most powerful
thing you could ever ask, you can ever do. It's
never advice, it's never a statement. It's always a question.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Kevin also does these daily affirmations, big theatrical gestures, all
all with a reason behind them. This doesn't have to
be prayer or related, although it can be. What's the
most over the top loving thing that you've either ever
done for somebody or that someone has done for you.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Gosh, the most loving, over the top thing there have
been so boy, you make me cry. There have been
so many people that have done over the top loving
things for me. Tiffany Hattish she heard about me and
(25:48):
heard that there were some people interested in building a
show about me, and Tiffany Hattish decided she wanted to
be the executive producer of that show and has done
so much to advocate for me. Charlemagne the God also
heard about me, and he interviewed me on his show
called The Breakfast Club several times and wanted the world
(26:09):
to hear that there's a psychotherapist who looks like me
doing it the way that I do it. But the
number one most loving thing anyone's ever done for me
ever ever. I like, there's a list, Tiffany Hattis and
Charlemagne God and all these people, but the single most
important people. My best friend growing up is a guy
named Kyle, and I used to try to keep the
(26:31):
abuse I was dealing with as a secret. And just
like most secrets, I wasn't doing a very good job,
and eventually people started to notice, but I didn't know
that they noticed. So one day I went over Kyle's
house and I didn't have to knock. We were very close.
I could just walk into Kyle's house and I would
see his mom, you know, in the house, dad in
the house, and just hey, what's up. And I'd go
to Kyle's room and we'd play Nintendo until we were
(26:52):
blue in the face. But it's one particular day I
went over Kyle's house and the mother stopped me and
she said, and hey, like, come here for a second,
And I said, okay, and a hundred million times. I
just walked past her and go up to Kyle's room.
But this particular the day she said, hey, come here
for a second and I said, yeah, what's up? And
she said, you know you can come over here anytime
(27:13):
you want to write. And I said, yeah, no, I know,
I do it all the time. And she grabbed me
by the hands and she said no, no, no, you're
not hearing me. You know you can come over here
anytime you want to write. And I said, yeah, I
got it, Like I can come over here anytime anytime
I want. I got it. She said, no, Elliott, stop
and just listen to what I'm saying. And she started
(27:35):
to cry, and she looked at me even more intensely,
and she said, just listen beyond my words. You know
you can come over here anytime you need me you
need to write. And in that moment I got it.
What she was saying was I know what you're dealing with,
and this is now your safe space. And that was
(27:56):
like my freshman year in high school, and all through
high school, whenever moments got too tough, they'd come downstairs
and find me sleeping on their couch. They never said
a word They never said what are you doing here?
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Do?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
They didn't say a word. I just was welcome there.
And that was the most loving thing anyone's ever done
for me, is give me a safe space when I
didn't otherwise have it.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
That is incredible. That made me very Yeah. Yeah, that's
a very emotional story. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
You had just mentioned that you think asking questions is
one of the most powerful things you can do. And
I'm curious when you guide a client to get a
better understanding or all of these things. What's a question
that you wish more people asked each other?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
What are you hoping to achieve? Questions about hope? They
ignite something in your client, or in your children and
your partner, whatever like. But also they convey belief and
they orient the person's brain. And I'll give you here's
(29:09):
a great example. And humans are very bad at this,
which is why I love the way you asked me
that question. What do I wish more people ask? Humans
are really bad at this? So you mentioned being an actor.
If someone came to me, let's say you not to someone.
You came to me and you said, I want to
win an Oscar, And I said, to you, who would
(29:30):
be the first person you think in your Oscar acceptance speech.
In that question, I just conveyed to you I think
you can do it. I just made you visualize yourself
giving an Oscar acceptance speech, and in visualizing the Oscar
exception speech, you are training your brain to experience it happening.
(29:51):
All with that one simple question. Now, I said, humans
are really terrible at this. And what most people do
is you come to me and you'd say, I'd really
like to win an Oscar next year, And then we
say stuff like I don't know, Cal, You know that's
very hard to do, Cal, I don't know. If that
maybe you should have shf smaller goals. And the reason
(30:11):
we do that is because as I like I know Cal,
and I like Cal so, I think as a result
of knowing and liking him, I need to protect him
from being disappointed. So, like Cal, you have this huge
aspirational goal. I don't want you to be crushed, So
let's shrink it. But instead of that, when you really
care for someone, help them dream and help them visualize
(30:32):
that dream. And every single time I see you, Cal,
I would say stuff like, hey man, how's that Oscar
thing going? Like what steps did you take this week
to move even a little bit closer to achieving that oscar? Now,
maybe you we'll get it next year, maybe you'll get
it five years from now, maybe you'll get it in
twenty years. But knowing that it's out there impossible completely
(30:52):
changes people's lives, and we need to do more of that.
So asking questions about hope is the number one kind
of question I wish more people would do.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
All right, Well we always close with this, what are
you reading or listening to right now?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
And what's next on your list?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Gosh, I am rereading right now Nelson Mandela's book Long
Walk to Freedom. Oh wow, Mandela is like my favorite
person ever. And it's so funny you mentioned that Mandela
is like my favorite person ever. I was recently going
through some books and some things and I found it.
I haven't I haven't read it probably in a decade.
(31:29):
I found it in college, read it again probably ten
years ago when I was actually going to South Africa
the first time, and I found it about a week
ago in my closet. I was like, I'm just going
to reread it for rereading it's.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Sake, that's a thick book to reread.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
It is a thick book to read, but he's.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Such a beautiful one though.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, every time I read it, there's another thing about
his journey and his life that stands out to me. Yeah,
so long walk to Freedom, it's the answer.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Elliott Colony is a psychotherapist and the host of the
iHeart podcast Family Therapy.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Elliott. Where can listeners go to see more of you?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
You can go anywhere, really. I have a website, Elliott
Connie dot com where you can learn about my shows
and my social media and my psychotherapy work and books
that I've written. You can find me on any social
media platform. Instagram is my favorite, but Instagram Facebook at
Elliott Speaks. Make sure you spell my name with two
l's and two t's. And if you're really really excited,
(32:27):
go on Amazon and buy my most recent book, Changer Questions,
Change Your Future. Elliott Condy, thank you for being a
member of our club. I appreciate it. Man, Thank you,
my brother, thanks for having me here.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
On the next episode of Earsay, the season finale, I
talk with the inimitable David Sadaris about his new work,
The Land and Its People, a collection of audio essays
recorded in front of a live audience. Please follow the
show wherever you listen and tell your therapist to like
and subscribe. Thank you to our friends at Audible. You
(33:03):
can listen to Kids Make Me Angry on the Audible
app or at audible dot com. New members can sign
up for a free thirty day trial, and your first
audiobook is free. Visit audible dot com. Slash Earsay, Hearsay.
The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club is a production of
Iheart's Ruby Studio. I'm your host Cal Penn. Our executive
producer is Matt Schultz, with theme music and post production
(33:25):
by Marcus Bagala. Our talent Coordinator is Alison Pepper for
Ruby Studio. Our managing EP is Matt Romano, and our
EP of post Production is Matt Stillo.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Until next time, thanks for listening.
Welcome to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Each
episode I dive into an audiobook with a special guest.
This season has been all fiction so far, but today
we're switching it up. We're going nonfiction with an Audible
original memoir written and performed by Kevin Hart. It's called
Kids Make Me Angry, and it's a funny, heartfelt, honest
(00:25):
look at one of the hardest jobs there is, parenting.
He explores what he's learned about how to do fatherhood
and also, just as importantly, what he's learned not to do.
It's about patience, teaching, and sometimes figuring out how to
let go on the show with me to talk about
(00:45):
Kevin Heart's Kids Make Me Angry is psychotherapist and host
of the iHeart podcast Family Therapy Elliot Connie Elliot, Welcome
to yours say thank you. Yeah, of course, So before
we get into this new Audible original, I wanted to
(01:05):
talk a little bit about you. You practice something called
solutions focused brief therapy. Can you tell us a little
bit about what that means?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah? I mean, how much time do you have, you know,
solution focused brief therapy. I'll be as quick as I can,
but also as informative as I can be. When I
was in graduate school, I was introduced to the idea
of psychotherapy and how to do it, and I was
very disheartened because all therapy is about the problem. You
(01:36):
study narcissism, depression, anxiety, addiction, but none of that actually
leads towards change. That just tells you how to know
about a problem. So, being someone who wanted to help
people move from narcissism, addiction, and anxiety whatever to a better,
stronger life, I kept thinking, how do you actually create change?
And in one book, literally two pages, there was this
(01:59):
thing focused brief therapy, which is a way of doing
therapy that's about helping your client to identify and create
their hope for future. And I just thought, man, that's
what therapy should all be about, is how do we
have hope for a different future and then make decisions
and make changes in our life that make that future
become our reality. And I was absolutely hooked. So I
(02:22):
started dedicating my life to studying it. Then I graduated,
and I've written several books about it, and I now
travel the world teaching it and now do a lot
of teaching online and reach one hundred and thousands and
million of people doing it.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
That is very cool.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
The second question, then, is so this audiobook begins with
Kevin Hart's story about how his own father was like
the opposite of a good dad, although he was able
to become a pretty good grandfather. And there's a lot
of discourse today about healing from the things that our
own parents did. Are those conversations something that you spend
a lot of your therapy hours on with your approach?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, yes, But I would say differently than in traditional psychotherapy. Yeah,
because a lot of times in traditional psychotherapy we'd have
to talk about the pain and the trauma and the
horrible things that the dad might have done. But in
this way of therapy, I'm much more likely to ask
questions like this is an example. If Kevin were sitting here,
(03:23):
and let's say he were sitting here and he was
struggling with the pain and difficulty caused by his father's
difficult behavior, I would ask him, if you had had
the most ideal father, how do you imagine your life
would be different today? And let's say he said, I'd
be happier, I'd be calmer, I'd be safer, I'd be
(03:46):
a better dad, myself. Whatever. I would say, Well, suppose
suppose you work, go tomorrow and you were all of
those things in spite of your difficult past, how would
you notice that you'd found a way to become all
of those things in spite of the past challenges. And
through that conversation he would be able to start thinking
about regardless of my past, it is my responsibility to
(04:10):
create a new future. Another kind of question that I
would be likely to ask him is what things are
you grateful for having had the exact kind of father
that you had? And I have a very very similar
background with my dad, And like my dad and mom
(04:30):
got divorced, my father didn't struggle with addiction, but he
was a very angry, abusive, aggressive man, And obviously I
wish that, you know, ten year old, fifteen year old,
twelve year old Elliott didn't have to deal with those things.
But now in adulthood, there were some very valuable lessons
that I carry with me that I'm actually very thankful
for the kind of father that I had. So we
(04:52):
need to stop thinking in like these dichotomies where it's
like good bad and realize like, no matter what father
you had or what mother you had. There are very,
very very positive things that came from those experiences, and
it's up to us to utilize those.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Sens that's very empowering.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
This audiobook is called Kids Make Me Angry, and in truth,
it's a very loving story. It seems like there's something
in there about how anger and love and hurt those
feelings sort of like are different faces of one another.
And maybe this has to do with Kevin Hart being
an actor, but he talks about parenting in terms of tone.
There's a fun dad voice, a loving dad voice, a
(05:30):
serious dad voice.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Play a clip real quick.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
When each of my kids turned about two years old,
I say no, and they wouldn't listen. So I played
with the volume of my voice how I said something
am my mannerisms. It turned out to be much harder
than acting, because a two year old child is much
pickier than a fifty year old director. For each of
my kids, there's the fun dad tone when the goal
is play and connection and bending the rules together a
(05:55):
little bit. Well, there's a loving dad tone when I
want them to know the most important message of all.
Then there's a serious dad tone when it needs to
be a little respect and discipline and it was incredible
to me how much we could accomplish with that.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
So he's speaking from personal experience and POV, but you
are the actual expert. This idea that what you say
matters maybe less than how you say it, or just
going back to the maybe escaping the good bad dichotomy,
what is the it for the how you say something
in conjunction with what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
The rule of thumb whenever you're parenting or any kind
of meaningful relationship that you want to stay strong is
being authentic. So if you're irritated, sound irritated, if you're happy,
sound happy, if you love your children, make sure that
there's love in the message. And love sounds a whole
(06:51):
bunch of different ways, like you might have had a
really really difficult day at work, you might have had
something incredibly stressful happening, and you might come home and
be accidental, short and irritated with your children. Well, love
sounds like an apology later. Love sounds like letting your
children know that wasn't about you and it wasn't your mistake.
Love sounds like humility, like being authentic and letting your
(07:15):
children know that they always matter. Is without question the
guiding force behind all communication. Now Kevin is right, and
that tone matters. He was referring to fun dad and
serious dad. That's true, but that's not something we can
always control, and if we attempt to control it, it
becomes very confusing for the child because as you're like
(07:37):
being fun dad voice, a nine year old isn't gonna
pick up on those nuances. A nine year old might
be in play mode when you're in very serious dad mode.
So the rule of thumb is always be loving and
always be authentic.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
There's a whole chapter that Kevin calls the Third Parent,
which is all about technology. I don't have kids, but
I am the fun uncle. I'm the responsible uncle. You know,
baby said a lot, but I baby said enough that
this idea of the third parent. You know, if you're
watching your niece and nephew for a week on end,
is this It's all technology. It's YouTube influencers, TV shows
(08:12):
raising kids alongside in Kevin's Caseym and his wife. There
are prank videos telling kids to go smash their mom's car.
There's his daughter picking up a British accent from Pet
the Pig, which, by the way, I feel like every
kid of a certain age says certain words with a
British accent because of pet the pig, namely the name George.
If they don't know a George in real life, it's
(08:33):
always George.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
How do you counsel parents who feel like they're co
parenting with an algorithm that they can't see.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I would say that you're not coparing with a an
algorithm that you can't see. Parents have always had to
deal with external influences to what's going on around their children,
and right now social media is just another one of
those external influences. So I would say, stay connected to
your children and have conversations with your children. And it's
(09:04):
the same rules now as it was before. Like, for example,
I'll give you an example of a failure of my father,
and I'll use this as an example for everybody listening
to not to do what I'm about to say, and
this will help address this algorithm thing that all of
us need to be thinking about. Okay, but we shouldn't
be thinking about it as like co parenting with the algorithm.
We should be thinking about how to impact the influences
(09:26):
of our children. My dad used to tell me when
I was growing up, if anybody ever offers you drugs,
I want you to come let me know. If you
go to school and someone offers you drugs or alcohol,
I want you to let me know. I want you
to tell me. And then, sure enough, when I was
in the seventh grade, it happened. I went to school
and some kid offered me alcohol and drugs, and I
(09:49):
was like, okay, I've been taught this is bad. I've
been taught I'm not supposed to do this, and I've
been taught I'm supposed to talk about this moment with
my parents, specifically my father. So I went home. Seventh
grade kid, I went home and I said, Dad, guess
what happened today? This kid offered me a marijuana and alcohol,
(10:09):
and my father lost it on me and beat me
what for having bad kids around me.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Oh wow, okay, so what do you.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Think The lesson I learned was I can't tell you anything.
You told me to come tell you. I didn't take
the drugs or alcohol. I came and told you and
ended up in a massively negative experience for me. So
I never told that dude anything again. So the same
thing is true. Now you should talk to your children
(10:40):
in a way that makes them feel safe to come
and talk to you, because they need to come and
say to you, Hey, I saw this thing online. Can
we talk about it? I found this Instagram page. What
do you think of it? You need to have that
kind of open experience with your children so that you
could parent it. To think about it as a co
parent gives the algorithm way too much power and influence.
(11:03):
What the algorithm is. It's just like another experience that
gives your children an opportunity to learn stuff that you
either do or do not want them to learn. The
simple truth is, the world is very different when I
was growing up, even younger than the experience I just
told you. When I was in elementary school, both my
parents worked when we lived together before they got a divorce,
(11:25):
separate elms. But we used to watch this TV show
called Three's Company because my parents. When I got home
from school, my parents were both at work. My older
brother was in charge me and then my younger brother,
and we watch Three's Company. And I will never forget
one day I'm sitting on the couch with my two
brothers watching Three's Company. My mother comes home from work
and she's got a jacket on. She's got her bag
(11:48):
over her shoulder, she opens the door. She walks through
the living room where three sons are watching this show.
And we were like nine, seven and five somewhere in
that area, and my mother stopped and she looked into
tublevidion form minute. She said, what do you guys watching?
And my older brother said, this really funny show called
Three's Company. And my mother said, what's it about? And
my older brother said, that guy right there, he lives
(12:11):
with these two girls, and it's just about all these
funny adventures. My mother watched that show for about a
minute with us, and then she said, you guys can't
watch that anymore, and we never saw it again. That
was it. I never saw another episode of Three's Company. Now,
the sad reality is parents don't have that level of
control anymore. If that happened today, I could watch Three's
(12:34):
Company on YouTube. I can find clips of Three's Company.
I can go to school and let one of my
friends I can watch it on their cell phone. Like,
you can't keep it out. So we have to be
able to talk about what our children are learning, and
we have to be able to talk about how they're
learning it. And we also have to like does it
really matter because the opposite is equally true. Col does
it really matter if your child is pronouncing George like
(12:57):
a British person because I watched Peppa Pig, No, because
the opposite is equally true. I have friends in England.
I'm travel to England very often to give lectures. They're
upset that their children are watching keeping Up with the
Kardashians and speaking with an American accent.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Oh right, yeah, But at.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
The end of the day, it doesn't really matter, and
it all comes out.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
In the Washington Yeah. I like that story.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I can also relate to it because my mom didn't
love CosIng Wood watch for his company after school.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
So when you said to his company, I don't know
if you caught me, I was like, oh, of course.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
And then you know, very similar story and like a
great example of your right. You know, the touch points
that kids have now are quite wide and it's not
just okay, mom says not to do this.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So that's the end of it.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
On the parenting to Kevin Hart is he's earnest, he's
vulnerable in this audiobook, very openly emotional about being a father.
And you've spoken a lot about healthy masculinity. What does
that mean in the context of how you've spoken about it,
and how does it apply to a book like Kevin's
where he's sort of modeled this out loud in his
own way.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I mean one of the things I command Kevin for doing,
because he's done it on stage, he's done it in
this book. Healthy masculinity is showing the whole breath of
the human experience through the lens of a man. What
happens often in masculinity is men have a responsibility to
not show the whole breath of the human experience, Like
we can't show sadness, fear, vulnerability, because those things are
(14:26):
viewed as not being like manly. But the truth is,
like they're all part of the human experience, and children
need to see that a man cries, a man gets sad,
a man has fear. We have to be able to
see those things or as we're holding something very vulnerable back.
A sun needs to see that it's okay to shed
(14:48):
tears and be sad and be happy and all those things.
A daughter needs to see that it's okay for a
man to have all of those experiences. And I think
it's really important for someone like Kevin, who is successful
and does look like success, but he also looks masculine.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
M There's a chapter in there that to me ties
into this. It's about letting go, and it starts with
Kevin's mom dying of cancer. His point is that he
was prepared for that. He asked hard questions so that
when it came it it's not that it didn't hurt less,
but it was a little easier. And then he says
the you know, the thing he wasn't prepared for was
(15:29):
dropping his daughter off at her dorm. And it ties
into what you just said about the full breath of
the human experience. He lets his daughter see him cry
in that dorm room on purpose, right, And I assume
from what you just said that is not a burden
but a gift to his kid.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It is a gift to his child. Yes, because number one,
think about what that daughter knows and that moment, about
how important she is to him that she otherwise I
wouldn't know if he had held back that emotion, Like
she knows I matter to this guy. She knows that
(16:08):
like this is an important moment for not just me,
but for him, and she knows a very real experience
of what love is and that stuff matters. Now. I
don't know his daughter, so let's imagine that she's one
day going to marry a man. She now knows that
it's okay for a man to love her in such
(16:30):
a way that produces tears, it's okay for her future
partner to love their children in a way that produces tears.
And all of that would not have been overt had
Kevin held it, held it, held it, held it in,
and then when he had gotten the car, cried by himself.
That is powerful and super important.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Very well said, all right, Elliott, we're going to take
a short break. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It is time for a plot twist where our questions
get a little more personal. I'll play you another clip
in a second. Kevin imagines someone pulling him aside during
his wife's pregnancy to say something.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
There may be anger coming your way, and you will
be very, very tempted to take it personally. Every fiber
of your being will want to try to talk things through,
or even worse, argue things through. But using logic here
is like using a sword to shave with. You're gonna
get hurt, She's gonna get hurt. Everyone's gonna be hurt.
(17:41):
Just stay in your lane and let it roll, and
in the back of your head know that you might
be on a nine month roller coaster ride, but what's
waiting for you at the end is so amazing. The
gift of a child is the best gift there is.
All you gotta do is remember one thing. It's not
about you. You got it. It's not about you.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Is I think a piece of advice that I had
to learn in different different iterations of different things in
the chapter of my life. What's a piece of blunt,
unsolicited advice you wish someone had given you before a
big life transition.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Wow, I wish I wish someone had told me earlier
in life that perspective matters. That's what I wish. The
way you view something has a greater impact in how
you respond to that something than the actual something itself. Oh,
(18:40):
that's what I wish. And I wish more people knew that.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Okay, I wish more people knew that. That's very well said, and.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I want to make it really clear. Can I give
an example of what I mean?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
So I am a fan of Kevin Hawks, and I
really appreciate how that you would for whatever reason, choose
me to be somebody to do it then interview about
this project, and I view that as a tremendous compliment.
So for now on in my head, you are now
col that invited me onto this platform to talk about
someone for whom I'm a fan of. So that means,
(19:12):
let's say you and I cross paths a month from now,
we're at an event somewhere perhaps, and we're walking down
the hallway and we bumped shoulders. Sometimes it's like, oh,
that idiot wasn't watching where he was going, or that
person was rude, or even they bumped me on purpose,
which means I now need to retaliate in some sort
of way. But if I remember that perspective, like no, no, no,
(19:35):
that's Cal that invited me onto that platform to do
this thing, then I automatically have significantly more patience for
the action and I don't have to respond in any
other way other than maybe Cal was having a bad day,
or maybe he's not an idiot, maybe he was just
not looking at that particular moment. And now I don't
(19:55):
treat Cal in any negative way because I hold on
to perspective that that's how who valued me enough to
have me on his platform, so then I don't have
to respond in any kind of negative way, because perspective matters.
And the good news about that is perspective is one
hundred ft up to me. I can choose to have
a perspective that honors the other person. And I wish
more people knew that.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
That was very that made me. I'm going to spend
the rest of the day thinking about that. The phrase
use your words had a full circle moment in Kevin's
life when his kids started using it on him. When
has a family member, or a friend, or even a
client turned your own advice back on you, Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
My gosh, I'm a psychotherapist. It happens ten times a
day to me because it's absolutely true, you know, because
none of us are perfect. We're all flawed in some
sort of way.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I talked to clients constantly about like treating your future well.
And I remember one time I was talking to a
client about like, if you were making decisions today that
your future self would be thankful for, what kind of
decision would you start making? And it was a tremendously
impactful session. The client was like, man, I'd stopped drinking
(21:08):
and what would you do instead, you know, I'd exercise,
and I'd treat my wife better, just all these things.
And next to me on my desk while I was
doing that session was a soda, a can of soda.
And we get to the end of the session and
my client said, when you're going to start taking your
own advice? And I said, I what do you mean?
When are you talking about? And he said, do you
(21:30):
think the version of you a year from now will
be happy or unhappy that you're drinking a mountain do?
And I was like, that's actually a solid point. Yeah,
that's actually a solid point. So that kind of thing
happens in the life of a psychotherapist a hundred times
a day. It never doesnet that I stoppeddrinking. I haven't
anisoda in three years. Oh amazing, because I'm constantly like,
(21:52):
I don't want to look and or sound like a hypocrite,
so I try my best to honor who I am
in other people's lives.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Kevin's daughter went through a phase of talking like Peppa
Pig and demanding to jump in muddy puddles. What's a
piece of media that shaped little kid Elliott? Besides Three's Company,
that you're either proud of or slightly embarrassed to admit.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Now, I'll tell you this is probably going to get
deeper than you wanted to, but I can't. I can't
help it.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Great.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I spent a lot of my childhood suicidal because of
the way my dad was treating me and how it
just removed power and identity and it made life nearly unbearable.
And then one day I came home from school. It's
one hundred ridiculous. I'm proud of it and embarrassed by it,
(22:46):
but it is one of the moments that saved my life. Honestly,
I came home from school. I believe I was twelve
years old, and do you remember the incident that happened
in Tianuman Square. Of course, yeah, an image that went
all over the news. It was going viral. Before going
viral was a thing of There was a Chinese student
(23:06):
holding two shopping bags, standing in front of a tank,
and the tank was moving towards him, and that Chinese
student was willing to die that day, the Chinese students
stand in front of the tank, willing to be run over.
And here I am twelve years old, and I'm really,
(23:28):
really at a low point in my life because I
didn't believe in anything, and nothing mattered and nothing in
any value. And I remember watching that Chinese student, twelve
year old kid, thinking to myself, I have no idea
what has compelled him to stand in front of a tank.
I don't know what he believes in to such a
degree that he's willing to be run over by a
(23:52):
tank due to that belief. But I want that. I
want that so bad. I want to believe in something
so badly that I will stand in front of a
tank for that belief. Wow. And I decided in that moment,
I need to I started searching for that. I started.
(24:12):
I didn't know that like self confidence and self assurance
and self identity to that degree existed, and that moment
sent me on a search for it. It took me
a while to find it. It took me maybe a
decade to find it, but I that moment changed my
life for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
That's powerful. Yeah, and I remember that both the image
and the video. I think there was a video, right,
there was a Yeah, there was a video. Yeah, that's RK.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
You t how the tank was moving?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
So Kevin has this chapter on dadisms what's uh? What's
an elliotism? Maybe it's a line you catch yourself saying
often in a session, either to make progress or create
a moment of joy. Is there assistinct ism that you that.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
You go with?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, you're always one question away from changing your life
by someone else's th life. A question the most powerful
thing you could ever ask, you can ever do. It's
never advice, it's never a statement. It's always a question.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Kevin also does these daily affirmations, big theatrical gestures, all
all with a reason behind them. This doesn't have to
be prayer or related, although it can be. What's the
most over the top loving thing that you've either ever
done for somebody or that someone has done for you.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Gosh, the most loving, over the top thing there have
been so boy, you make me cry. There have been
so many people that have done over the top loving
things for me. Tiffany Hattish she heard about me and
(25:48):
heard that there were some people interested in building a
show about me, and Tiffany Hattish decided she wanted to
be the executive producer of that show and has done
so much to advocate for me. Charlemagne the God also
heard about me, and he interviewed me on his show
called The Breakfast Club several times and wanted the world
(26:09):
to hear that there's a psychotherapist who looks like me
doing it the way that I do it. But the
number one most loving thing anyone's ever done for me
ever ever. I like, there's a list, Tiffany Hattis and
Charlemagne God and all these people, but the single most
important people. My best friend growing up is a guy
named Kyle, and I used to try to keep the
(26:31):
abuse I was dealing with as a secret. And just
like most secrets, I wasn't doing a very good job,
and eventually people started to notice, but I didn't know
that they noticed. So one day I went over Kyle's
house and I didn't have to knock. We were very close.
I could just walk into Kyle's house and I would
see his mom, you know, in the house, dad in
the house, and just hey, what's up. And I'd go
to Kyle's room and we'd play Nintendo until we were
(26:52):
blue in the face. But it's one particular day I
went over Kyle's house and the mother stopped me and
she said, and hey, like, come here for a second,
And I said, okay, and a hundred million times. I
just walked past her and go up to Kyle's room.
But this particular the day she said, hey, come here
for a second and I said, yeah, what's up? And
she said, you know you can come over here anytime
(27:13):
you want to write. And I said, yeah, no, I know,
I do it all the time. And she grabbed me
by the hands and she said no, no, no, you're
not hearing me. You know you can come over here
anytime you want to write. And I said, yeah, I
got it, Like I can come over here anytime anytime
I want. I got it. She said, no, Elliott, stop
and just listen to what I'm saying. And she started
(27:35):
to cry, and she looked at me even more intensely,
and she said, just listen beyond my words. You know
you can come over here anytime you need me you
need to write. And in that moment I got it.
What she was saying was I know what you're dealing with,
and this is now your safe space. And that was
(27:56):
like my freshman year in high school, and all through
high school, whenever moments got too tough, they'd come downstairs
and find me sleeping on their couch. They never said
a word They never said what are you doing here?
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Do?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
They didn't say a word. I just was welcome there.
And that was the most loving thing anyone's ever done
for me, is give me a safe space when I
didn't otherwise have it.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
That is incredible. That made me very Yeah. Yeah, that's
a very emotional story. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
You had just mentioned that you think asking questions is
one of the most powerful things you can do. And
I'm curious when you guide a client to get a
better understanding or all of these things. What's a question
that you wish more people asked each other?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
What are you hoping to achieve? Questions about hope? They
ignite something in your client, or in your children and
your partner, whatever like. But also they convey belief and
they orient the person's brain. And I'll give you here's
(29:09):
a great example. And humans are very bad at this,
which is why I love the way you asked me
that question. What do I wish more people ask? Humans
are really bad at this? So you mentioned being an actor.
If someone came to me, let's say you not to someone.
You came to me and you said, I want to
win an Oscar, And I said, to you, who would
(29:30):
be the first person you think in your Oscar acceptance speech.
In that question, I just conveyed to you I think
you can do it. I just made you visualize yourself
giving an Oscar acceptance speech, and in visualizing the Oscar
exception speech, you are training your brain to experience it happening.
(29:51):
All with that one simple question. Now, I said, humans
are really terrible at this. And what most people do
is you come to me and you'd say, I'd really
like to win an Oscar next year, And then we
say stuff like I don't know, Cal, You know that's
very hard to do, Cal, I don't know. If that
maybe you should have shf smaller goals. And the reason
(30:11):
we do that is because as I like I know Cal,
and I like Cal so, I think as a result
of knowing and liking him, I need to protect him
from being disappointed. So, like Cal, you have this huge
aspirational goal. I don't want you to be crushed, So
let's shrink it. But instead of that, when you really
care for someone, help them dream and help them visualize
(30:32):
that dream. And every single time I see you, Cal,
I would say stuff like, hey man, how's that Oscar
thing going? Like what steps did you take this week
to move even a little bit closer to achieving that oscar? Now,
maybe you we'll get it next year, maybe you'll get
it five years from now, maybe you'll get it in
twenty years. But knowing that it's out there impossible completely
(30:52):
changes people's lives, and we need to do more of that.
So asking questions about hope is the number one kind
of question I wish more people would do.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
All right, Well we always close with this, what are
you reading or listening to right now?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
And what's next on your list?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Gosh, I am rereading right now Nelson Mandela's book Long
Walk to Freedom. Oh wow, Mandela is like my favorite
person ever. And it's so funny you mentioned that Mandela
is like my favorite person ever. I was recently going
through some books and some things and I found it.
I haven't I haven't read it probably in a decade.
(31:29):
I found it in college, read it again probably ten
years ago when I was actually going to South Africa
the first time, and I found it about a week
ago in my closet. I was like, I'm just going
to reread it for rereading it's.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Sake, that's a thick book to reread.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
It is a thick book to read, but he's.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Such a beautiful one though.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, every time I read it, there's another thing about
his journey and his life that stands out to me. Yeah,
so long walk to Freedom, it's the answer.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Elliott Colony is a psychotherapist and the host of the
iHeart podcast Family Therapy.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Elliott. Where can listeners go to see more of you?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
You can go anywhere, really. I have a website, Elliott
Connie dot com where you can learn about my shows
and my social media and my psychotherapy work and books
that I've written. You can find me on any social
media platform. Instagram is my favorite, but Instagram Facebook at
Elliott Speaks. Make sure you spell my name with two
l's and two t's. And if you're really really excited,
(32:27):
go on Amazon and buy my most recent book, Changer Questions,
Change Your Future. Elliott Condy, thank you for being a
member of our club. I appreciate it. Man, Thank you,
my brother, thanks for having me here.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
On the next episode of Earsay, the season finale, I
talk with the inimitable David Sadaris about his new work,
The Land and Its People, a collection of audio essays
recorded in front of a live audience. Please follow the
show wherever you listen and tell your therapist to like
and subscribe. Thank you to our friends at Audible. You
(33:03):
can listen to Kids Make Me Angry on the Audible
app or at audible dot com. New members can sign
up for a free thirty day trial, and your first
audiobook is free. Visit audible dot com. Slash Earsay, Hearsay.
The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club is a production of
Iheart's Ruby Studio. I'm your host Cal Penn. Our executive
producer is Matt Schultz, with theme music and post production
(33:25):
by Marcus Bagala. Our talent Coordinator is Alison Pepper for
Ruby Studio. Our managing EP is Matt Romano, and our
EP of post Production is Matt Stillo.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Until next time, thanks for listening.
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