Top 5 Needle Drops (Pt. 1) and It Ends | #1078 - Filmspotting

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
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Speaker 2 (00:45):
What kind of a show are you guys putting on
here today?

Speaker 1 (00:48):
You're not interested in art?

Speaker 3 (00:49):
No.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Well, look, we're going to do this thing.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
We're going to have a conversation. From Chicago, this is
Film Spotting. I'm Adam Kempinar.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
And I'm Josh Larson.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
I've been out walking.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I don't do too much talking these days.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
The right song and the right scene can stop time.
This week, it's our top five movie needle drops with
Rico Galeano from the movie podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Plus a little golden brick spotting with It Ends and
90s movie villains. That and more ahead on Film Spotting.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Welcome to Film Spotting. Josh, this top five turns out
we really like music. We really like movies. So when
you get three guys together who really like music and
movies and music in movies, we had a lot to say.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
We should have seen this coming.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
It was kind of like doing a film spotting podcast
and a music spotting podcast episode in one. So we
went on a bit.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
This is true.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
We invited Rico Galeano from the Mubi podcast. And this season,
as you'll hear, he's doing a podcast for Mubi devoted
to needle drops. That's the crossover. We thought we might
go long. We just didn't come up with a good
strategy for it. We had to come up with a
strategy for how to deal with such a long show

(02:19):
after the fact. It took so long, in fact, that
I decided to put a different shirt on. So here
we are.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
This isn't that we're recording a few days later now.
You just did a break and a costume change, basically.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
I was sweating profusely. So we have regrouped. And what
we're going to give you is part one. I don't
know that we've really ever done this other than our
old top 10 shows that we used to divide into.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Right.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
You're getting part one here. And then depending on when
you access these shows, you'll have part two in your
feed as well. You're going to get the top five
picks five through four and our definitions and criteria. And
then later you'll get picks again. three through one. You'll also,
in this show, get some commentary about a very good

(03:08):
new film called It Ends and our 90s movie villains poll.
Let's go ahead and kick it back to ourselves now
and welcome in Rico Galeano from MUBI. We are very
pleased to be joined now by the head of audio
at MUBI, Rico Galeano, a returning guest here on Film Spotting. Rico,

(03:32):
how are you?

Speaker 4 (03:33):
I am so glad to be back. I couldn't, like,
you know, my day was going pretty good. Now it's
about to get awesome.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
We'll see how it goes. I mean, maybe we'll let
you down.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
I like the confidence. I like the confidence, Rico. Thank
you for bringing that.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
How could it be wrong? We're going to talk about
music and movies.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
What could be better indeed? And you inspired this top
five because you have been putting out into the world
and we've been enjoying it. Side two, needle on the
record side two. This is part of the movie podcast,
and you first did this in 2023. What made you

(04:11):
want to revisit this series?

Speaker 4 (04:13):
Oh, I mean, if I had my druthers, this would
be the series.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Maybe it could be.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
I'm a music and movie geek.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Yeah, this is our latest season is the second time
that we're tackling great needle drops in movies.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
And I mean, mainly.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
what's funny is that I think since we did the
first one, first of all, the first one was really successful.
So that always helps the first season that we did
of this is really successful. And then ever since then,
I've been thinking about the movies that I wish that
I had also had a chance to cover the, we
had a great time the first time. And, uh, what's
funny is that I actually kept track of all the
ones that, you know, you would think of something and

(04:48):
be like.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Oh, I would love to talk about that.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
None of those actually ended up being in the season
for various reasons that had nothing to do with my.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Love of them.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
Um, but that was also cool because actually we did
a few that I knew the movies, but I hadn't
really realized how interesting and important some of the music
was in them.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
So that was groovy.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
What was the biggest discovery for you then this time
putting the season together?

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Uh, it was probably the movie belly.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
Uh, for those who don't know, um, hype Williams only
film hype Williams being one of the great hip hop
video directors.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Uh, starting in the late eighties, I believe.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
And really like a ground zero for a lot of
amazing music. He was originally, he was based out of
Queens and like actually, you know, in his neighborhood where
people like LL Cool J, there were one of the
very first music video shows, hip hop video programs was

(05:48):
a local, I think cable access show that came out
of Queens and And he worked for the guy who
created that show, had his own production company. And he
worked for them and ended up doing all of these videos.
He became like one of the great rap videos directors.
And then the late 90s, I think 98, he did Belly,
which is this insane fever dream of a movie. It

(06:08):
stars all these hip hop guys, Nas, DMX, T-Boz, and...
But if you think about a gangster movie, because that's
what it is, it's like this gangster movie. There were
a lot of those coming out, Juice, Menace to Society.
Those have been coming out throughout the 90s. This movie
is like the art film version of that. And I

(06:30):
had never seen it. And it is just like stupefyingly beautiful.
And it's had a huge impact that was unbeknownst to
me on a lot of filmmakers, especially black filmmakers, because
of the way that it actually photographs black skin. which
many black filmmakers have since taken, like Moonlight, Barry, I'm
going to blow it. Barry Jenkins. Barry Jenkins has talked

(06:53):
about that movie as a major sort of visual touch point.
But also the opening sequence of that movie has had
a big, you know, it's been parodied. It's been aped
by lots of hip hop videos and lots of directors.
And it's like this opening sequence that's actually not set
to a hip hop song. And that was also fascinating
to me. This guy was totally into hip hop. And

(07:14):
it stars all these hip hop guys. You could start
with any of their songs. Obviously they're in the movie.
And instead he starts with this like late eighties dance track,
which is the acapella version of soul to souls back
to life. Figuring out why he chose that, how important

(07:37):
that song actually was to, and probably still is to
hip hop culture. And then the impact of that, that's song,
which is actually very, has a lot of space to it.
And it doesn't even have a beat that comes in
until very late in the song, but it's. The music
is the background to a robbery sequence and the kind
of audacity of taking this very quiet tune and putting

(08:00):
it against this robbery sequence right at the beginning of
your movie. And also the way that sequence is shot,
it's set in a nightclub. It's a robbery at a nightclub.
There's these like black lights anyway, all of this. The
movie is just amazing to me and is also just crazy.
There's all this stuff going on. We talked to the
guy who came up with it. He was one of
the co-story writers of it, talking about the ideas behind

(08:22):
it that are not necessarily even apparent on first viewing.
There's a lot going on in that movie. It was
a big revelation to me.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
I think we've got the right person, Adam. We already
have an excellent pick here and we haven't even started
our list.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
No, it's true. And that was a discovery for me.
I didn't end up getting a chance to watch the
entire film, but watching that sequence, a discovery for me
because it was a discovery for you.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
You had not heard of it?

Speaker 1 (08:47):
No.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
I mean, I had heard of Belly, but I had
never watched that scene and I didn't know it was
such a touchstone for so many people. But came up
again and again in doing research for this top five
as well. It was on so many lists.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, it is surprising, right? I mean, there's like fashion.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
I was told by one of the guys that I
spoke to that there was a fashion module that was
based on the color scheme of this opening sequence. There's like,
you know, a pair of tennis shoes that was put out,
you know, that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Really?

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Pretty amazing.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
Sneakers, sorry, not tennis shoes.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
So I would like for you to share with the
audience here a couple more things. maybe it was that one,
but do you have a favorite episode this season that
you put together? And maybe you alluded to this, but
maybe you could share with the audience as well how
you put these episodes together, because it's not just you

(09:41):
have one person on, a guest or two, and you
talk about the music. You're really putting together a whole
tapestry here. I mean, you are digging into how the
music is constructed and the how and the why and
the who.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
Thank you for giving me an opportunity to talk about
this because it's a rare opportunity to be able to
do a show like this in any medium, but especially
in podcasting these days. It's like an audio documentary series.
So we're talking to multiple people and we have original music.
We use archival clips of stuff that was going on
at the time, as well as from the movie itself.

(10:17):
So we're weaving all this stuff together to tell the
whole arc of the story of the making of the
film and how it dovetails with the music, why the
music is important, why that music was chosen. In a way,
this season, it was actually, I was so excited to
do it. And then as I was doing it, I
was reminded of the first season. It's like, oh yeah,
I'm basically telling two stories here. It's the story of
the movie and the story of the music. And I

(10:39):
have to ping pong back and forth between the two
of them. And it was kind of a nightmare.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Actually, to put it together. A joy and a nightmare.

Speaker 4 (10:46):
But the ones that I like the best, this is
for kind of personal reasons. The first episode of the
season was for Whisper of the Heart, the Studio Ghibli
animated film, which is another movie. Actually, it was recommended
by one of the guys on our team, who is

(11:07):
a big anime guy. I had not seen this one.
It's not actually directed by Hayao Miyazaki. It's one of
his other sort of proteges that made it, his only film.
And so I had not heard of it. It didn't
get as much play. It was a huge hit in Japan,
but not as huge a hit in the US.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
And it's just beautiful. It's not this kind.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
Of dreamlike movie like a lot of Hayao Miyazaki's stuff is.
It's very grounded in reality. It's kind of a love
story between teenagers. It's very much like I was told
that the visual representation of Tokyo in this movie, if
you lived in Tokyo in the 90s, you would be
able to recognize advertisements, be like, oh yeah, I know
exactly where that intersection is, that kind of thing, like

(11:49):
super detailed, realistic, but very beautiful love story.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
And weirdly, the.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
Kind of musical theme through the film is... The John Denver,
originally John Denver song, Take Me Home Country Roads. Weirdly,
we put out this episode and then a few months later,

(12:17):
the World Cup happened. And all of a sudden, everyone
was talking about that because it became the U.S. soccer
team's anthem. It's already, it's other teams' anthems in the U.K.,
by the way, I think, Arsenal. And, uh, by the way,
it may not be Arsenal and people right now are
screaming if I've got that wrong. I'm sorry, guys. I'm
not a sports dude. Um, but that song personally for me,

(12:42):
I think that song.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
I thought it was Manchester and it is in fact
Manchester United.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
It's Manchester.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
I'm sorry. Should I go back and retake it?

Speaker 1 (12:48):
No, no. Leave me out there.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Let's run with it.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
I'm dead, man. Uh, so I grew up though.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
In West Virginia as a really young kid. And Take
Me Home Country Roads, you know, Almost Heaven, West Virginia
is the first line of it. So it's totally embraced
by people in West Virginia. And I think John Denver,
maybe even before the Beatles, was one of the first
pop musicians that I was into as a really little kid.
And by doing this episode, talking about that song, I

(13:19):
got to interview the guy who co-wrote it. And that
was just, first of all, he's a great guy. It's
like in his eighties and he's just totally got it together.
Remembers every single detail about coming up with it. He's
like one of these really great folk singer type dudes.
And he just has all these stories about John Denver,
but also learning about the history of that song and

(13:40):
how many versions of it came out almost immediately. Cause
this was John Denver's first hit. Nobody knew who he was.
So to make it a global hit, they gave it
to all these other people. There's the Toots and the
Maytals version. The movie opens with Olivia Newton-John's version, which
was apparently huge in Japan and probably why they used
it in the first place. And then also talking to

(14:00):
the teenage daughter of the producer for Studio Ghibli, who
was the one who wrote the Japanese lyrics for Take
Me Home Country Roads for the film and how they
subvert the meaning of the song. which seems like this
very nostalgic song about going back home and how great

(14:21):
it will be back home. She takes the lyrics and
turns it into being about, I'm not going to go
back home, even though that would be nice. I'm going
to persevere and move forward into the future kind of thing.
And why that would be something that a teenager in
the 1990s in Japan would want that song to say
is also fascinating. Anyway, so it was just like learning
about this tune that has been with me since I

(14:41):
was a little kid and like seeing how much of
a deal it is all over the world.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Sure. Well, I still have a few episodes left in
the series, but I'm enjoying it so far. I hope
our listeners will seek it out. You can get the
movie podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And let's jump
in to our needle drops. Josh, we can come back
to Rico as our needle drop expert here in a moment.
But of course, our usual approach is we like to

(15:08):
define the top five lists. I don't know if we
need to define what a needle drop is, but that's
how we usually do it. And we establish our criteria.
And I'll start with you. But when I was thinking
about this, I always kind of took for granted. I
knew what a needle drop was. And then I started
looking around. I'm looking at some different lists online. I
found one from Fader, thefader.com. They had the 100 best

(15:32):
needle drops in film and television history. And I'm looking
at the list and I'm thinking, I'm seeing some here
that didn't strike me as what I thought was maybe
a needle drop. And then I read their definition and
it seems so broad. And this is what they said.
a piece of diegetic or non-diegetic music that enhances the mood, flavor,
and or narrative of the film slash show. And I'm like, okay,

(15:55):
so a needle drop is wrong. I mean, it's just,
so it's just any, it's any prerecorded music. And, and,
and that, that kind of seems to be what a
lot of, a lot of sites were, were going with it,
going with. And I, I almost Josh went with, or
it was going to force myself to go with a
needle drop being, it had to be, had to be,

(16:17):
completely non-diegetic. That the needle drop for me was a
filmmaker is the one dropping the needle, right? Like they're
dropping it over the film is the way I almost
thought of a needle drop. Not that that was the
right definition, but that was going to be my definition.
I didn't end up setting that restriction. And I actually

(16:38):
only ended up with one, I think that was truly
completely non-diegetic. So we'll see as we get through our list.
How did you end up defining it?

Speaker 1 (16:46):
I had a very similar experience where I thought we
didn't need to think much about this one. It was obvious.
And then when I sat down, I realized, yeah, the non-diegetic,
diegetic question came up. The opening credits sequence came up
to me. Do I set those aside? And as usual,
what happens is I needed boundaries to winnow down my

(17:07):
list to justify for me setting some things aside. So
I largely did avoid opening credits, I think. I also
went in search of a handy definition. I found one, Adam,
that's maybe not quite as specific, but I did use
as a guideline for not only my choices, but organizing

(17:27):
the order of my list and thinking about how these
songs were actually working in the context of the film.
So this comes from The Hollywood Reporter, a 2025 roundup
of the top 40, appropriately, I think they probably chose that,
top 40 of all time, they said. And this was
co-written by Scott Roxborough and Patrick Breski. Here's their definition

(17:49):
of a needle drop. The use of a preexisting track
that compliments, collides with, or completes the images on screen,
creating something bigger than either alone. So I loved that
narrowing in on compliments, collides with, or completes because it

(18:10):
just gave me a way in to think about the
use of the song. didn't really restrict me from choosing
an opening credit sequence. If I wanted to, wouldn't be
surprised if the two of you might have that.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Um, so yeah, it just, it, it painted a way forward.
I don't think it's the end all be all definition.
But it was helpful to me because this is a
massive topic with so many amazing choices.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
I just needed something to cling on to.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Well, I don't know that that actually helps you narrow
anything down. That still opens you up to almost the
entirety of great needle drops.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
It's not more specific, but it does. The way it
helped me narrow down is, you know, there are great
songs that are dropped into a movie that we love.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
To me, if it didn't really do one of those
things distinctly.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
And compliment is a little broad, right?

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
I mean, obviously every song chosen, it wouldn't make our
list if it didn't compliment it in some way.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
In some way.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
But I understand. But I do, yeah, I do think
the notion that a needle drop can work differently was
helpful to me.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Okay. Rico, you're our expert. How did you define it?
How did you approach your top five?

Speaker 4 (19:18):
I don't think I get the final say on any
of these things. You're both, you know, perfect gentlemen and
very wise. And I think that there's legitimacy to both
your approaches. If that's as wishy-washy as it sounds.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
This is why we love having you on the show, Rico.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (19:34):
You guys are great. Your hair, if anyone could see it.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Keep going.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
I like that.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
Life Itself, great movie.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, poster behind you.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
I see that movie poster behind you, Adam.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Impeccable taste in decor.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Excellent choice in docs.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah, wait.

Speaker 4 (19:54):
One thing, though, Adam.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Bruce, can you reread yours?

Speaker 2 (19:57):
It was a piece of diegetic or non-diegetic music that
enhances the mood, flavor, and or narrative of the film
slash show. Because they included television as well in this topic.
The problem that.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
I have with that is that it's got to be,
I go more with Josh only in the sense that
I do think it has to be pre-existing. The idea
is that you're taking something that existed outside the world
of the movie beforehand and now you're using it. to
bring into the world of the film.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
And quite frankly, maybe if I look back at the
list that was spelled out somewhere before that, but I'm
quoting from the list and it's not said in the definition.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
That's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Which would be crazy because that is part and parcel.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
Of- That's all music.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
That's all music in cinema, for God's sake. A score
could be defined as that basically.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
It could be, right?

Speaker 4 (20:46):
So, but other than that, I think anything goes pretty much.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
And I think I probably- think of a great needle
drop along the lines of josh's my favorite though being
i'm actually as i'm thinking about i'm not sure that
this applies to any of the ones i actually ended
up choosing because i chose a lot of them based
on some nostalgia although i can make great arguments for
all of them as well i think but the i
really like the contradiction a piece of music that is

(21:12):
dropped in contradiction to what's going on on the.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Collides colliding that was really a nice term yeah I.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
Feel like that is a vast majority of, say, Martin
Scorsese's use of music. He loves putting something that may
be era appropriate over a sequence that otherwise has nothing
to do with the music that you're listening to.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Interesting that you say that. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
Really?

Speaker 2 (21:36):
You may return to that. You may return to that.
And I think as we get through my list, you'll
have a couple that directly complement and some where there
may be a little bit of a collision. I'm with you. though, Josh,
I love this topic so much. I as well. And
I had so many good options. I felt that I
needed some, I really needed to set some boundaries as well.
So I went, I went a step further than, than you.

(22:00):
And I started thinking about, could I, could I approach
this where do I narrow my list down to a
top five where I'm thinking about who are the most
frequent and adept purveyors of the needle drop? And do
I pick maybe a favorite from each of them? And

(22:21):
I came up with a top seven and I will
share the top seven later, but I did end up
having four of those represented. I didn't go that route,
but I still ended up having four of those top
seven represented. And I think you would probably guess who
the top seven are. But then here's where I did
end up. I thought, you know, arguably part of what

(22:43):
makes needle drops so effective very often anyway, is familiarity.
That we usually recognize the songs and our relationship to them.
Not always, but our relationship to them can inform our
connection to the scene. And I wanted to go the
other way and focus on something that I often go

(23:03):
to the movies for, which is surprise and discovery. What's
better with music than when Josh, you, or Rico, if
we're hanging out and you say, I've got a song
you've got to hear. Have you ever heard this band before?
Have you ever heard this track before? And you play
it for me and my mind is blown. And then
I'm the biggest fan of this band now. And I

(23:24):
can't wait to go hear all of their songs. What's
better than going to see a movie, hearing a song
you've never heard before. You love the scene. You love
the song. And now you just can't wait to hear more.
And I said, you know what? I'm going to pick
five where the filmmaker was introducing me to a song.
And in some cases, a song and a performer that

(23:46):
had me not only engaged as a movie viewer, but
as a music listener. And I left the theater wanting
to hear that song again, and I wanted to discover
more of that artist's work. So all five of the cases,
I'd never heard the song before. And even if I
was familiar with the artist, in the moment, I couldn't
connect the song to that artist. So a good example

(24:11):
of that would be In the Royal Tenenbaums, she smiled
sweetly when Margot drops the actual needle drop on the
record player in the tent with Richie. How many stitches
did you get?

Speaker 1 (24:25):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
You want to see it?

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Of course I know the Rolling Stones, but I've never
listened to that album and I didn't know the track
She Smiled Sweetly. I know Ruby Tuesday. That was on
the radio. I didn't know She Smiled Sweetly. And I
was like, I love this song. This is an incredible song. Now,
I might have picked that, except Rico, we have this

(24:51):
thing on FilmSpotting called the Pantheon, which is our little
Valhalla of movies. And for us, those picks from those
movies are ineligible. So even if I wanted to pick, yeah,
the Royal Tenenbaums, I can't. You know what else I
can't pick?

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Good fellas.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
I can't pick. I was going to get there because
that's the craziest one. I can't pick The End from
The Doors from Apocalypse Now. I can't pick Hotel California
from The Big Lebowski, The Sound of Silence from The Graduate,
or These Days from The Royal Tenenbaums. I can't pick
Layla from Goodfellas, or Sunshine of Your Love from Goodfellas,
or any other track from Goodfellas. You could do an

(25:29):
entire top five just from Goodfellas.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Ineligible.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Because it's in the pantheon. Let's go ahead and get
into our list. We're going to let you as our
guest start. Rico, what's your number five needle drop?

Speaker 4 (25:42):
Oh man, this is like starting a negotiation. You always
want somebody else to go first to set the floor.
So then I'm going to start with, I did not
say that opening credit sequences were verboten. I did go
with an opening credit sequence.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
That's fine.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
I'm looking through here.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
I don't think I picked any others, but this is
to me, one of the greatest opening credit sequences ever.
And it's to Ghost World, the 2001 movie. And that
opening sequence is set to, interestingly, a piece of film
music from the past and from a different country. It's

(26:27):
a song called Yan Pechan Ho. I hope that I'm
pronouncing that correctly. And it's sung by Mohamed Rafi, and
it was created by the team of Shankar Jakishan, who
are one of the greatest songwriting duos in Indian film history.
And I say all that like I know a ton
about Indian film history. The fact of the matter is
if I know anything about Indian film history, it's because

(26:50):
of first hearing that song in that movie. It was
probably the first piece of Indian film music that I
was exposed to that I somehow got. I always thought
it was cool, you know, like Indian film music is interesting,
but I never felt it in my gut or I
never had a way into it to understand it. And

(27:10):
for those who don't remember the movie, it is the
character of Enid dancing. That's Thora Birch playing the character.
And she's dancing happily and crazily in her room while
watching the original Indian film from the 1960s and the
sequence that featured that song. And she's dancing like crazy

(27:30):
in her room while we actually see around her the
cameras panning in and out of windows in the suburbia
that she's living in. And everybody else is in this
kind of Dan Klausian style. Just kind of zombified form.
They're just existing in their little rooms doing nothing, watching television,
being very bland. And she is dancing, wearing her cool

(27:51):
clothes to this really cool track from this really cool movie.
And it sounds like both an Indian piece of music,
but also it has this surf music component to it.
Which is probably why I got into it. It's like,
there's this one Western element to it that makes me
realize that there's some way that it jives with my

(28:15):
world in a way.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
And I just, it's a great track. I also many moons.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
Later went to the Netherlands and went to a dance
club and they were playing it. And there were all
these Dutch people dancing like crazy to that song. And
the fact that it is, has that effect on people
is just wonderful to me. That sequence is incredible. And
it also sets up exactly what the movie is about
in a way. It's kind of like this bland environment

(28:41):
where you've got somebody who's desperate to break out of
it and is a unique individual trapped in this world.
Her only way out is through music and images and film.
You get it right away. It's a beautiful sequence.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
As soon as you said the title, I could hear
the song. I could picture the scene precisely. That's how
you know it's a great needle drop.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
That multicultural aspect to... Two reminds me, Rico, of your
Bend It Like Beckham episode where you talked about the
use of music there. And obviously there's the, you know,
the connection with Indian culture, but even beyond that, um,
that's what makes it, you know, like a discovery, as
you said, for yourself and in the way Adam was
talking about in his setup, looking for, for music discoveries.

(29:24):
So I can probably place, I didn't think about that
as a definition or a category, Adam, but I could
probably place my number five pick there. as well as
a discovery. One thing I did try to resist doing
is going, Adam, to our Rap Party Picks for Music
Moment of the Year. Rico, this is a show we

(29:46):
do every year. Just kind of look back at different
categories like Funniest Moment, Music Moment. And a cheat way
of doing this list would just be go back to
the years of all those and maybe picking those. And
I thought that would be too easy. So I tried
to resist that. But I did have to cheat a
little bit because I am starting here with a discovery

(30:07):
song that ended up being a scene of the year
pick I made in 2020. And really, I picked it
because it's all about the music. And this is the
acapella sing-along to Janet Kaye's Silly Games in Steve McQueen's
Lover's Rock. The song I'd never heard before Janet Kaye

(30:36):
completely unfamiliar with until it was employed a couple of
times in this movie, actually. It's not just the one sequence.
This was Adam and I, we shared it as our
number one film in 2020. It is one of the
installments to McQueen's Small Axe Anthology, which was set among
London's Caribbean community. And Lovers Rock dramatizes one night at

(30:58):
a 1980s house party. So obviously with that setting, music
is crucial. The title itself refers to a slow groove,
romantic sub-genre of reggae that emerged in England in the 70s.
So yeah, Silly Games, you hear it a couple times
throughout this party. and throughout the movie. But the moment
I'm picking specifically is late in the party, and the

(31:20):
DJ turns off the speakers. And the couples who are
dancing just continue singing Silly Games a cappella for, I
think it might be like 10 minutes that this goes on.

(31:43):
And it really is a distillation of, of lovers rock.
So in that construct, I was talking about compliments collides
or completes. I see this one as completing the movie,
what it is trying to do. This is a movie
all about creating this space for, for freedom. Uh, it's

(32:05):
trying to especially create the space for these particular young
people in this particular time in history, in this particular place.

(32:29):
I love how the dancers become a choir here. It's
like a needle drop still has a bit of distance between,
even if it's, even if it's diegetic, right? Even if
it's something that's in the scene and the character's, press
play on the CD or literally drop the needle, there's
still a bit of distance because they're listening, right? They're

(32:52):
still receiving it as listeners. And this does something special
where the characters actually become the performers. So naturally, as
might happen at a party like this, and suddenly they're
the ones sharing the music. So they're this choir delivering
this expression of community and unity, and they're creating this
protective communal space. I also love, I mentioned this during

(33:14):
that wrap party show, but it's kind of cool that
Dennis Bovell, who wrote Silly Games, does have a cameo
on the dance floor during the sequence. So that's where
I'm kicking my list off with. Relatively recent pick, Janet
Kaye's Silly Games from Lover's Rock.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, almost made my list. In fact, for a while,
had it at number five. And that's because it checked
the box for me. Had not heard the song, had
not heard of the song or the artist until we
saw lovers rock. And you're so right. It's communal. There
are a lot of people dancing. It's so intimate. It's
so sensual. And there's something about them all starting to

(33:54):
sing on their own. It becomes like they're under a
spell and we fall under the spell of it too.
It's such a scene. It's such a good movie.

Speaker 4 (34:04):
I mean, I have at least one pick on my
list that is someone in a movie listening to music
And I wonder what that's about. Because I have a
feeling there'll be more as we go through our list.
And in the same way that at some point, I

(34:24):
recognize that a lot of my favorite scenes in movies
are people playing some sort of game, either a playful
game with each other, a verbal game. Actually, now that
I think about it, there's a scene like that in
one of the movies I have on my list.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
And there's something about watching somebody fall in love with
a piece of music while you're falling in love with
a piece of music. I'd have to think about what
is the attraction of that. I mean, maybe it's obvious,
but it is beautiful.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
And if you can capture.

Speaker 4 (34:54):
It, I mean, I think also we're music lovers, I think.
So in a way, it's kind of evoking that experience
that you know and have such a deep affection for,
I guess, that gives it that little extra layer when
you watch somebody fall in love with a piece of music.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah. My number five, I do have to say it
wasn't a complete introduction, a little bit of a reintroduction,
but you'll abide my inclusion, I think, because I had
never heard the version of the song by this band,

(35:33):
by the original group And the group is the Delphonics.
The song is Did I, parentheses, blow your mind this time,
from Jackie Brown, Quentin Tarantino's Jackie Brown. Of course, Quentin Tarantino,
one of those top seven and maybe in the top
two or top one of those purveyors of the needle drop.

(35:57):
But you know who did perform Did I Blow Your
Mind this time? You guys probably don't know. But I'll
tell you who did perform, didn't I blow your mind
this time, back when I heard it in 1986. The
New Kids on the Block.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
Yeah, if my wife was here, she would have slapped me.
I gave my heart and soul to you, girl. Now
didn't I do it, baby?

Speaker 2 (36:27):
I have, well, I had four younger sisters, but my
sister Melissa, the one directly below me, was a New
Kids on the Block fan. And I remember her having
a friend over at the house and they were watching
Hanging Tough Live, the new kids on the block live.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
And I was curious. I was starting to get into
music and I'm a year away from starting a band
with my junior high friends. And so I'm starting to
get a little pretentious, even though all I'm listening to
is hair metal. So I'm judging the new kids on
the block. as I'm watching this concert and this isn't,
this isn't revisionist history. I was not a fan of

(37:04):
the new kids on the block, but they, they start
performing this song. I don't know which songs are they
wrote or didn't write. And of course they didn't write
any of them, but they start performing this song. And I,
I'm like something about this song is different.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
The song survived. This has survived new kids.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Like this has a beautiful melody. It's got that call
and response structure. It's got a really great bridge. It's
got rich harmonies. It's got that incredible key change that
happens in it. Like, this is just a great pop song.
I'm like, I remember thinking, am I liking a New
Kids on the Block song?

Speaker 3 (37:40):
It's okay. It turns out it's okay.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
How can I be enjoying this? And so, you know,
I didn't investigate it any further. We didn't have the
internet back then at this point, right? Flash forward 11 years.
I'm in the theater watching Jackie Brown. And Robert Forster's
Max Cherry, the bail bondsman, has just taken Pam Greer's
Jackie back to her house after a night in jail.

(38:03):
And she decides to put on some music, puts on
a record. I should get some extra points here for
having an actual needle drop in my top five needle drops.
She puts it on, puts the record on. Quentin Tarantino
shows us the extreme close-up of the needle going on
the vinyl.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
They're listening to music.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
And the moment the opening lines come in, I give
my heart and soul to you, girl. I give my
heart and soul to you, girl. I'm simultaneously thinking, holy crap,
it's that New Kids on the Block song. And it's
not a New Kids on the Block song. And I'm,
if not slowly falling in love with Jackie like Max is,

(38:46):
I'm absolutely mesmerized by Jackie.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Now, Adam, are you sure you didn't say... You kids
did this way better.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
No, I did not think that. And, and, you know,
Tarantino is just so, he's so smart. The, the first
thing Max says about the music is it's pretty and
it is pretty, but the camera is on Jackie when
he says it. And, and it's not only that it's
Max's point of view, it's his angle looking up at

(39:15):
her from the kitchen table that he's sitting at, you know, it's,
it's because Tarantino shoots it all from Max's point of view.
When she kneels down in front of the records, the
camera tilts down just like Max's head would if he's
looking at her when she kneels down. And then it
just stays static. There's just cross-cutting between him and him
looking at her from the kitchen table, static point of view,

(39:39):
exactly as he would. And he's just watching her in
her bathrobe. And those two shots, it's two shots, one cut.
As the music starts playing, Jackie lighting a cigarette. She's
lighting a cigarette in this kind of dingy apartment in
a bathrobe against the sunlight of her shades and the
cut is to Max staring intently just slightly tilting his

(40:03):
head and it's all just to the opening notes of
of that song the delphonics and it's romantic as hell
and and Thankfully, Max, you know, asks Jackie who it is.
So I, as a viewer, understand that it's the Delphonics.
I didn't have to think about it the rest of
the movie. I got the answer to my question. And

(40:24):
I also figured out that it wasn't the New Kids
on the Block. It's okay that I loved it back
in 1986.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
It's great.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
By the way, I mean, like, kudos to you for
picking like the least obvious Quentin Tarantino needle drop that exists.
There are so many that immediately leap to mind. And
that is like deep.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah. I guess I know most of those songs, but
I didn't know Little Green Bag. That was a discovery. Good,
good song. But this scene's amazing.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
It's distinct to your point, Rico. It is another example
of characters choosing the music for themselves. So the director
is choosing it, of course. But in the reality of
the movie, the characters are choosing it. And even in Tarantino,
those move us differently. I'm thinking of in Pulp Fiction, right?
When Uma Thurman puts the songs, not coming to me,

(41:13):
but like there are many characters choosing in Tarantino movies,
the music, and those feel differently than when he drops
them on us like a bomb, which are thrilling as well,
because this is a skill he has. They operate in
very different ways. So that's why, I mean, Not only
do I like this pick because it's my favorite, favorite Tarantino,
but I think it is, he's working in a different

(41:36):
gear here, even though it's a tool he often employs. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
And the layers, the layers to it as well, like Jackie,
Jackie's the kind of person and they're adults at this
point where she's the kind of person who doesn't need
to play any games and is just going to pick
a song that she loves and she's going to play
it because that's what she's in the mood for.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
It's for her, it's not for him.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Exactly. Exactly. But she also is precisely the kind of
person who in this movie is playing games. And everything
she does is a precursor to another move that she's establishing.
And she does need Max on her side. And she
knows what she's doing when she puts on one of

(42:17):
the most romantic, pretty songs of all time and stands
there in her bathrobe and lights the cigarette in front
of the shades, right? Like, she does know what she's doing.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
But you mentioned Uma Thurman putting on Girl, You'll Be
a Woman soon in Pulp Fiction. Think about the difference
between those two movies. One comes right before, right? It's
Pulp Fiction and then Jackie Brown, right?

Speaker 3 (42:40):
Am I out of my mind?

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
And it's like, this actually almost perfectly illustrates something that
at first was disappointing to me.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Now I don't care.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
But at the time, I love all those movies. I
loved Reservoir Dogs. I love Pulp Fiction, love Jackie Brown.
But I remember seeing, even when I saw Pulp Fiction,
I remember thinking there are certain scenes. I always think
about the moment in that movie where she comes back
from the bathroom in the burger joint and says, don't
you love it when your food, you go to the bathroom,
you come back and your food has arrived, which is

(43:13):
a thousand percent true and has never been in a
film before. And I was like, this guy is an
incredible observer of life. He like, is this guy?

Speaker 3 (43:24):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
People think of him as this bloody action guy. There's
actually not that many shootouts in his movies. There's just
the threat of violence hanging over a lot of his movies.
He's actually got this really incredible, you know, insight into
people and he's going to be doing, you know, any
kind of movie he wants he can do. And then
he did Jackie Brown. I was like, see, like, look
at that. You can see so much more of the

(43:47):
kind of new wave French influence, you know, in that
movie and everything. And then it doesn't do as well.
And then he doesn't do anything for a while. And
then he comes back with Kill Bill. And at first
I was very disappointed. It was like, you just gave
them what they said you were, man. Like they want
you to be this guy and you're more than that, dude.
But I don't care anymore. And I actually did like,

(44:08):
especially when Kill Bill 2 came out, it was like.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Ah, it's all for a reason.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
But at that moment, I was kind of like, you
could take those two scenes and those are the difference.
There's one where he's got Uma Thurman puts on, you'll
be a woman soon. And she's like literally floating around
the room. She's like dancing and doing all this stuff.
In this movie, she puts it on and she just
sits there smoking a cigarette in her dingy bathrobe. It's
like the total opposite kind of vibe.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (44:34):
Amazing pick.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Josh, in a few weeks here on Film Spotting, we're
hoping to give the sacred cow treatment to T2 Judgment Day.
Hopefully we'll get a chance this weekend at Regal Cinemas
to see that movie, to revisit it on the big screen.
It's like we're back in 1991. We're back in high
school seeing that film on the big screen. Check REGmovies.com.

(45:01):
See where that film is playing near you. And if
you can make it to that one, or even if
you can't, maybe you can see The Dog Stars, the
new film from Ridley Scott. That's a film we're hoping
to see this weekend and maybe give a few minutes
to next weekend. Certainly the movie that's inspiring our top
five or our draft next week devoted to the films
of Ridley Scott. It's also available in IMAX if that

(45:26):
is an option near you. You may be able to
see The Dog Stars for free if you are a
Regal Unlimited member. Regal Unlimited is the all-you-can-watch movie subscription
pass that pays for itself in just two visits. If
you sign up for Regal Unlimited using the code of
film spot 26, you get 15% off. You can see

(45:46):
any standard 2d movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions.
And with Regal Unlimited, you won't just save money on tickets.
You do also get 10% off all non-alcoholic concessions. We
encourage you to sign up now in the Regal app
or at the link in our description and use code
film spot 26 to receive your discount. Rico, we are

(46:07):
at your number four. Really?

Speaker 4 (46:10):
I got to top that.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
That's a really good cut. I'm going to go with it.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
This is a tie.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
Because I think, I know you're going to say that
this is cheating, but I think we can talk about
them in tandem. Mainly because they had the exact same
impact on me when I saw them. And they're kind
of used in the same way, which is in Wings
of Desire, the Bender's 1988 movie. One of my favorite
movies of all time. And it's both, well, I'll do

(46:36):
them in chronological order in the movie. Crime in the
City Solutions is, Six Bells Chime, and Nick Cave and
the Bad Seeds from Her to Eternity. Both of these
are actual performances within the movie. They were both songs
that existed before the movie came out. But in the movie,
you see the band sort of lip syncing to as
though they're performing them. They're both in nightclub sequences. They're

(46:59):
both in these kind of very, how do I put it?
They're like faded glamour nightclubs because it's being shot and
is in a lot of ways about that movie. the
Berlin of that period, which is just before the wall
comes down. So it's a city that has a lot,
you know, it's still kind of in semi ruins from

(47:20):
World War II somewhat. It's still a kind of walled city.
There's like all sorts of, and therefore it's very bohemian.
It blew my mind at the time because I was
in college radio at the time when this came out.
And a lot of people were into goth. And I
actually liked the Cure a lot, but the Cure kind
of more poppy side of goth, particularly as I was
getting into them. I thought of goth music as horror

(47:43):
rock in my mind. It's people dressing like vampires and
some of it was pretty noisy and like spooky. And
I kind of felt like it was kitschy maybe in
some way. I didn't totally get what it was that
attracted people to it. And that movie and these two
scenes put it in context for me so that I

(48:05):
understood the romance of goth music. It's about finding beauty
in decay. And darkness.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
And it.

Speaker 4 (48:15):
So changed my aesthetics in like 30 different ways. It
was like, it changed my musical aesthetics because I got that.
I understood that there was this, there was something could
sound maybe scary or gritty or something, but there's actually
something totally different going on underneath it. And it did
the same thing about places for me. It actually made

(48:36):
me want to travel that movie. which is not unusual
than vendors movies are a lot about travel in a way,
but it made me want to do a certain kind
of travel, which is to find spaces like that, where
music like that would be appropriate. That it's like a
place that is beautiful, but decaying that has history to
it and is still got, you know, and it's still

(48:59):
being used in a modern way. the kind of collisions
of different eras, the fact that it was in this
faraway place, that people spoke a different language and just
did things slightly differently. And it's all got this ethereal
overlay to it, because if anybody knows that movie, it's
about an angel who falls in love with a woman.
And in both of these scenes, the angel is with

(49:23):
the woman and she doesn't know it yet. She's immortal.
He's an angel watching her in the first scene with
Crime in the City Solutions. And this music is playing
and she's swaying like all sort of gently. At one point,
this non-corporeal being puts his hand over her hand and
pretends he's holding it and kind of... follows the arc
of her hand down it's this like totally beautiful graceful

(49:46):
ethereal moment it just epitomizes so many things for me
those two things and it's a great example of what
you were talking about is uh you know going in
and not knowing a song or not knowing even for me,
like really getting a genre and having it put in
context for you so that it's like, not only do
you get it, but now it's essential. I listen to

(50:06):
that kind of music whenever I travel now.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Yeah, and Nick Cave, if a voice can be cinematic,
he has one of those. So it's just, you know,
any use of him probably would work on some level
in a movie, but certainly does here.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
I don't think I've seen Wings of Desire since the 90s,
since I was becoming... A cinephile. One of the movies
that transformed me. It's been that long and you've made
me now extremely eager to revisit it. I can't believe
it's been that long. Talk about a movie we need
to do a sacred cow on.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
It's one of the most beautiful movies ever. Like no movie,
literally physically, like, I mean, visually, no movie has looked
like that since that film came out. The black and
white in that film is insane. And paired with that music.
And by the way, that's the other thing. If you listen,
like the soundtrack for that movie is pretty popular. Because
of tracks like that. And actually, if you listen to it,
it sounds like pretty grim in certain ways.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
There's a lot of like sadness.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
There's like one song called Pas.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
A Tende.

Speaker 4 (51:09):
I can't even remember who does it, but it's got
like clanking kind of, you know, industrial sounds. I think
because a lot of that music was what was being
made in Berlin at that time. And that movie is
a love letter to Berlin. But it's bizarre that I
now associate all those things with this beautiful love story
that has, spoiler alert, a happy ending. That's the power

(51:29):
of music. You can totally recast music like that.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
And you need the visuals to recontextualize it. Yeah, yeah.
All right. So for my number four, I'm going to
go from a surprise to a nostalgia pick. I think
it's only fair that nostalgia comes into play here for
a list like this. And I realized I needed to
have a track from a John Hughes movie. And this

(51:54):
isn't necessarily because I was a little young for his
run as a director and producer in the 80s with
teen movies. So we've got 16 Candles, Pretty in Pink,
The Breakfast Club, Weird Science. I think the first one
I actually saw was probably Ferris Bueller's Day Off, but
these were in the air. So even as like a
kid who's just a couple years behind going with friends

(52:16):
to the theater to see these movies, you knew about
them and you knew they were the thing to do.
And absolutely, you knew the music. I mean, just from
the radio, from the television commercials, from whatever, you knew
the music. So even if you were too young to
see the films themselves, you were aware of them. And
talk about an embarrassment of new wave, early alternative riches.

(52:41):
This is what you got in these John Hughes movies.
I'm going to go with a song that I remember
hearing the most from the movie I wanted to see
the most, but couldn't. And that was 1985's The Breakfast Club,
specifically Simple Minds' Don't You Forget About Me, used during
the final moments. I try to stay away from opening credits.

(53:06):
Do I stay away from end credits? Do I stay
away from final scenes? But this one is interwoven into
the final scene well before the credits. So we think
of it, at least I do in my mind, as
being a final credit song, but it's not. It starts
a lot earlier in this sequence, which is after the
group we've been hanging out with all day separates. They

(53:27):
leave detention. For those who need a reminder on Breakfast Club,
it's basically a detention, Saturday detention movie. Cross-section of high
school humanities who are hanging out with here. Prom, Queen Claire,
Molly Ringwald, Jock Andrew, Emilio Estevez, Burnout Bender, Judd Nelson,
Nerd Brian, Anthony Michael Hall, and then Loner Allison. played

(53:49):
by Ally Sheedy. So they've, you know, against all odds,
they've bonded over the course of the day across these
social classes and they're getting picked up in the final
sequence by their parents in the final moments. And yeah,
don't you forget about me as we watch them leave
the building, get into their separate cars and, you know,
Hughes gives them each distinct moments with their parents, who's

(54:12):
picking them up. And then, and then interestingly, if I'm
remembering correctly, there aren't a, edits from one kid to
the next it's a lot where like the next car
will pull up in the same frame yes so it's
kind of still holding them together as we're seeing them
pulled apart and the song playing over all of this
is of course also holding them together with their wish

(54:35):
the wish they have at this moment is that this
is what they're hoping it's what we're hoping i think
it's what we know isn't going to happen um they
want to remain friends come on they were right we
dug into this when we did our sacred cow review
of breakfast club, right, Adam. And if I recall, I
think we were both kind of pessimistic, a little cynical
about that. But for this moment, for this moment, that's

(54:58):
what everybody wants. Right. And it's what the song is,
is asking for. So yeah, just incredible use of simple minds. And, um,
I was glad I did finally get to see the
breakfast club. And of course that revisit, the revisit we did,
it really holds up. I mean, it does. It's a,
it's still a great movie.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
It's been a while, actually.

Speaker 4 (55:17):
I think it might be like 10 years since I
revisited that movie.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
But I was.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
Expecting 100% to roll my eyes at it. And there's
some pretty eye-rolly stuff. It's simplistic at points, for sure.
And also, by the way, Molly Ringwald has since said
that she had some discomfort with some of the sequences
in that movie. So I think we should probably mention that.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
But it does.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
I think we did.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
But it does.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
Still carry a lot of emotional, like, you know, it's
like pretty, it has some beautiful things to say, you know,
these kids really open up to each other. You can
tell that they were feeling it in the moment. I know,
I remember even when it came out, all of those actors,
there was like an article in, I think like Newsweek
that I read at the time that it came out
or something. And it was like all of those actors,
every young actor in Hollywood wanted to be in that movie.

(56:04):
They like would have killed to be in that movie.
And you can tell they all just like gave it
their all. And it's really, it's like, it's pretty beautiful.
I do have some bad news though. I think that
song was written for the movie. So I'm not sure
it qualifies.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Good thing we didn't go by your definition.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
Oh, yes. See, this is why I don't make rules
for myself.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Not hard and fast rules. I would have never thought that.
I just always assumed this was a Simple Minds song
that pre-existed.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
I believe it was written by like a writing crew
for somebody to do. And it was brought to Simple
Minds and Simple Minds was like, we don't do like,
we're going to do our own music. We don't do
other people's music.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Yeah. I suppose the title makes sense, especially considering what
you just said, Josh, about the end of the movie.
When do you think then that you finally, do you know,
when did you finally see The Breakfast Club?

Speaker 1 (56:53):
I think, I mean, it had to be like a
VHS catch up, right? Once VHS... became more popular and
common and you were going hanging out at friends' houses,
it's like, okay, this is one that I'm going to
get to see. Unless I'm misremembering that and it couldn't
have been the first time for.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Our sacred cow.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
By 85, it wasn't uncommon for people to have VHS.
I mean, in 85, I'd already seen this a hundred
times and had it memorized. That's how often we watch
this film. So I love that this is on your list.
It's such a great pick. And I don't want to
downplay at all that you are positive on this movie.
You did give it four stars when we revisited it,

(57:33):
according to Letterboxd, out of five. But I gave it
five out of five. That's how nostalgic I am for
The Breakfast Club. So I'm so happy.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Should be on your list.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
I'm so happy that you put it there. I'm actually going,
so it's so funny, you're going with a pick from
a movie that in grade school, in junior high, I
probably would have said was the greatest movie ever, at
least in grade school, I would have said it was
the greatest movie ever made, maybe when I was in
sixth or seventh grade. And now I'm going to go

(58:04):
to a pick that is a song from a band
that I never in junior high or high school would
have admitted to liking. Now, in fairness, I didn't listen
to them then. And you set me up nicely for
this pick, Rico, with your number four. And this is...

(58:24):
this is a choice. This is another, this is a
director who I would, I would consider another heavy needle dropper.
And I liked the choice because heavy is a really
appropriate word for the song as well. There are a
lot of options to go with from Sofia Coppola's catalog.
There's a lot to go with just from Marie Antoinette,

(58:45):
but my favorite happens to meet my criteria for this list,
my main criterion. And yeah, 2026 me really digs the cure.
2006 me was, was cure curious, but, but as I
was suggesting just a few moments ago, you know, I

(59:06):
wasn't a listener at all, even in 2006. And, and
I didn't know when I saw this movie and reviewed
it here on the show, I didn't know what song
was playing when I heard it. I just knew I
thought it was a banger and I had to look
it up when, when Marie becomes queen. And she and
King Louie the 16th walk down the descend the staircase

(59:30):
and everyone's clapping for them. That moment, I just had
to know what that was. There's no lyrics to it,
but it was incredible. And the song is The Cure,
plain song. We don't see a needle drop here. But

(59:50):
part of what I love about it is that it
feels like there's a drop. There's an illusion. It's just
so heavy the way the song comes into that scene
where King Louis XV has just died. And there's a
series of shots where we see Schwarzman's Louis XVI being
crowned his successor. And then a sound comes in on

(01:00:14):
the soundtrack that it seems like it could be diegetic almost.
It's kind of confusing. It seems like chimes. And maybe
they're coming from inside the church. Or maybe it's non-diegetic,
but it's like part of a score. It doesn't sound
like a pop song, but it would be totally appropriate
for a score for a scene where something so regal

(01:00:35):
and sanctified is occurring. And we hear those chimes as
we see this gorgeous close-up of Kirsten Dunst looking on
at her husband being crowned. And the camera is just
ever so slowly tracking forward on her and her face
is betraying very little, but it's suggesting perhaps some reverence

(01:00:58):
for her husband, maybe some pride, but also as I
read it, some trepidation, maybe some anxiousness. And then the
heavy part is we're still hearing these chimes, but then
there's the cut from her face to the stairs. It's official.
He's the king. She's the queen. And it, is on

(01:01:18):
a cymbal crash, and we get that huge synth bass sound.
And it really does feel like the sound has just
completely dropped, and we see them moving to that great adulation.
And of course, like the rest of the movie, it's
totally anachronistic. It feels like it could be the score

(01:01:40):
from a prom scene, Josh, from an 80s movie like
The Breakfast Club, almost, to be more appropriate for that.
But the The rhythm of it, the momentousness of it,
it sounds sweeping. It sounds grand like it should be.
It's just, it's perfect for the scene. And then if

(01:02:00):
you do go and listen to the song, if you
listen to Plain Song, you realize that the chimes are
part of the song. It isn't just the bass synth stuff,
the keyboards or whatever. It's the chimes are actually leading
into it. And that cymbal crash that then is the
precursor to the, to the synth. It, it's all part

(01:02:20):
of the song and, and that it's just such an
elegant choice for that scene. It was like, it was
truly like it was made for that moment. And I
suppose it makes sense that the reverse is true, that
Sofia Coppola just knew how to perfectly execute the visuals
around the music. And, and maybe that's exactly what she

(01:02:41):
had in mind is, is the way she actually did
execute it. I love it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:46):
I think that may be also why that, because it
presages a party sequence. It goes, it segues from this
regal thing into a party sequence all within the same song.
And it maybe is partially why that is one of
the great party sequences of all time, because it gets
across how a great party feels when you're young. It

(01:03:08):
feels like more than a party.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
It's like, this is where it is at.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
It's very almost famous.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
And you know that she knows her music because it's
a rare song that's going to be able to do
that where you can pivot from something that grand into
something that youthful. And I mean, it's interesting because when
I first saw that movie, I could have sworn because
she's the kind of person that would do this and
has in fact used bands like New Order. And I
thought for sure this must have been early factory records,
like a much earlier song. I thought that it was

(01:03:40):
like maybe one of those deals. And it's actually a
late model 80s tune. For me, it's a deeper cut.
It's a deeper cut Cura song and a pretty astute
one to use.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Yeah, Adam, you're warming my heart here. Is this your
first Sofia Coppola top five? pick, it might be.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
It's possible. It's possible. You went with The Breakfast Club
and I went with Sofia Coppola. We've switched bodies here
for this top five.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Apparently. And The Cure, I mean, listen, I'm not going
to claim I was listening, you know, disintegration era, but
Wish was kind of my like, oh, why have I
not been into The Cure? And yeah, the way it
works in this sequence and Coppola uses it is absolutely brilliant.
So So what a win this, what a win these

(01:04:26):
lists have been for me so far already.

Speaker 4 (01:04:28):
By the way, Gang of Four kicking off that movie
is a total genius choice too.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
I thought for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
When you were starting to talk about that movie, I
was like, oh, it's going to be that tune because
it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Like I said, so many options.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
And also, you know, you're talking about seeing a character
actually like drop the needle. That would not have been
out of place in that movie. Like we have the
Converse sneakers, right? I mean, so we might as well
have somebody, you know, dialing up the cure on a
record player or something like that. So a reminder, we

(01:05:10):
will have picks three through one coming your way. Look
for that in the feed. Right now, let's take a
few minutes to thank some members of the Film Spotting family.
Membership in the family is the single source of support
for the show. We are independently produced, and so the
support we get from our listeners is how we're able

(01:05:30):
to keep doing this. This is the last weekend. If
you're listening to this as soon as the show dropped,
this will be the last weekend for you. to get
our 20% off discount that we are offering for family membership.
We're doing this through August 31st. All you have to
do is use the promo code summer at filmspottingfamily.com and
you can join the family for 20% off. We want

(01:05:53):
to thank family members Michael Shaw, who's in LA, and
Mikey Rogers in Nashville.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Okay, Michael and Mikey. We start with Michael, who says
he found us on a colleague's recommendation, American Fiction and
What Siskel and Ebert Got Wrong. We're among early listens,
but I went back at least as far as Josh
and Michael's review of Sorry to Bother You. Reviews we
got wrong. Almost every blockbuster slash superhero movie that could
have been devoted to a potential Golden Brick nominee. Apologies

(01:06:21):
to the blockbuster aficionado. So he wants more arthouse stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:06:26):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
Doesn't mean you were wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Just a golden brick show is what Michael wants, it
sounds like. Not a bad idea.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
A movie he credits with becoming a cinephile. I'm not
sure I've earned genuine cinephile status, but A Clockwork Orange
was the first film that made me in awe of
the power of film.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Mikey says, Josh's book Movies Are Prayers was recommended to
me by a friend. I found the book to be
really encouraging, both as a person of Christian faith and
as a cinephile. This led me to check out the podcast.
Though not an official film spotting review, I got to
attend part of Cinema Interruptus for Phantom Thread on a
trip to Chicago last December. Hearing how Josh facilitated discussion

(01:07:05):
of the film inspired me to become a more regular
listener of the show. Well, thank you, Mikey.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Thank you for getting us some listeners, Josh.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
I mean, I do what I can. I'm out there
on the streets, Adam. For Mikey, a review we got wrong.
Dune and Dune Part 2. I think with enough patience,
these movies are aesthetically rich and thematically profound. Though Josh
and Adam didn't deride the films, I didn't get the
enthusiasm I was hoping for towards such a top-quality fantasy blockbuster.

(01:07:35):
Not much enthusiasm, no. I mean, I feel like I'm
getting roped into your lack of enthusiasm, Adam. I do appreciate—
I don't know how you feel, really.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
I can't remember. I'm saying I'm not enthusiastic.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
I know you aren't, and And I'm taking the blame
for it. I'm positive on both films. Maybe I'm not
quite as enthusiastic as Mikey, I guess. Okay. As for
a credit, a movie that Mikey credits with becoming a cinephile,
Captain America, The Winter Soldier, saw it in theaters when
I was 12. Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Mikey, for

(01:08:08):
joining the family and for listening. You can follow Mikey
on Letterboxd at MikeyRogers58. This response to the questionnaire we
got from Michael said, not on Letterboxd yet, but may
bite the bullet soon. You should do that, Michael. It's
a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
If we're throwing out cliches, bite the bullet, take the plunge,
do whatever you have to do, Michael. It's worth it.
More about joining the FilmSpotting family is available at filmspottingfamily.com.
You get to listen early and ad-free. You get access
to that FilmSpotting family-only feed that lets you listen ad-free,
whether it's on Apple, Spotify, whatever platform you choose. You

(01:08:46):
get our weekly newsletter. you get access to the film
spotting family discord. You also get access to our monthly
bonus shows. We have not yet taped it, but coming soon,
you will hear our August blind spotting discussion of Kiyoshi
Kurosawa's cure from 1997. That's an interesting film. We'll be

(01:09:11):
an interesting through the ringer.

Speaker 4 (01:09:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
To have a dialogue about that streaming on the criterion
channel and available on VOD, we plan to drop that
in your family feed. on August 30th. And in September,
Trivia Spotting, exclusive for family members. So if you would
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Film Spotting family member. Check your email. You should have

(01:09:35):
an invite in your email. RSVP for that. If you
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and it is only available through August 31st to take 20%
off filmspottingfamily.com.

Speaker 4 (01:09:50):
What if we're supposed to suffer.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Here?

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
What if that's the point?

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
I'll do it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
It's time for some golden brick spotting. It Ends is
new in theaters this weekend. A car full of recent
grads heads out for a final hang before they go
their separate ways. A wrong turn puts them on an
unfamiliar road that seems to never end. The plot description
available online, Josh, refers to it as a two-lane hellscape.

(01:10:26):
You have seen It Ends, which is from first-time feature writer,
director Alexander Ulam. Producer Sam suggests that I should ask
you if Hellscape is an accurate description, but what producer
Sam doesn't know and what you don't know is that
I have a pretty good idea whether or not Hellscape
is accurate because it turns out that just prior to

(01:10:50):
sitting down to record the show with you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
Do you fit it in?

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
I managed to fit in it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
Now I do feel like I am still processing this film.
I want, I want to leave the review. officially up
to you, but I, I can co-sign any recommendation of
this and do feel like it is deserving of any
golden brick nomination that you may give it. This is

(01:11:18):
a really good film. The question I'm most eager to
ask you is, is Gen Z okay?

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
No, no, they're not. And they shouldn't be. Think of
what they're going through. Now, here's the other question. Does
It Ends directly address specifically what they're going through in
this moment in time? Does it address what anyone graduating
from college is going through? I think for me, it's

(01:11:51):
maybe somewhere in the middle, which is partly why I
think it's a really good movie is because it's It's topical,
but universal. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Specific, but universal enough.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. To the hellscape question, I
think what I would tell people, I do not want
to spoil anything because I had no idea beyond that
basic premise where this was going. It definitely begins like
a waiting for good old type puzzler. Existential, vaguely allows

(01:12:22):
you to ruminate on these big questions and Just before
the title drops takes a, uh, shall we see a
zombie movie like turn though? This is not a zombie movie.
It is not want to be clear about that. Um,
but it, it makes a turn that brings it a
little closer to maybe a hellscape. Um, but really what
I loved about this is it's, it's a malleable metaphor

(01:12:45):
movie and it, it, that, but it's not so vague
that it means nothing, but it could precisely mean a
lot of things to different people. because of the care
that a Lomaz writer-director making his feature debut puts into
this and the details of this constricted world that he provides.

(01:13:08):
I think it allows you to think that this could be,
you know, about a number of things. For me, most richly,
it is about the obvious question of, you know, am
I now going to enter the monotony of responsible adulthood?
That's the universal part, right? At the same time, I'm

(01:13:28):
eager to see what other interpretations people have, specifically moviegoers
of the age of these characters, and see how it
resonates with them, because I think it has that power.
I also want to call out the lead performer. Well,
it's not a lead performance. It's maybe the lead of
this ensemble. I think it is. Yeah, Phineas Ewan. As James,

(01:13:52):
who is this cynical, sarcastic, very funny, the kind of
guy who says no offense to his friend, and then
you know is going to follow it with something quite offensive.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
He's a cervic. It's a sharp performance.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
It's a sharp performance. But then on top of that,
he finds ways to layer it with gestures that speak
to the deep emotionality going inside this young man as well.
The one that comes back to me, and maybe this
was written to the script, but it's where he writes
in marker, his name on a head, on the headrest

(01:14:26):
at one point, and then just so slowly smudges it out.
And the sense of sort of resignation and loss and
the loss of yearning. It's not even that he's yearning.
It's like the loss of yearning that that communicates. It's
an incredible performance. I think in this movie, and Olam

(01:14:48):
as director too manages ways. I think here's where it's
golden brick worthy is not only the idea, the sort
of clever visionary idea, but the filmmaking here really manages
to make this constricted setting compelling. I keep thinking of
a shot which we've seen a million times, the cameras
inside the car looking outside as they're just driving past

(01:15:11):
these woods continually, right? And in the same shot you
see the trees blurring by outside the window, but he
also has the side mirror, which is capturing the trees
blurring from another angle. And it's all in the same shot.
And the way that just, you know, evokes their experience
of the bizarre passing of space and time is it's,

(01:15:35):
it's just a really visually insightful touch that I think
this movie is full of. Um, so yeah, but what,
what did I totally, you know, you having just seen it,
I can't imagine. The way your mind is worrying, not
because it's so puzzling, but because it opens so many possibilities,
I feel like.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Yeah, no, I had a similar reaction, I think, to
you in that the Yoon performance stood out very much
to me. I do think the overarching metaphor of it
seems very malleable. I think that's the right term. I
think a lot of different people could attach their own
significance to it. At the same time, it feels very

(01:16:13):
much of this generation. I have to imagine that people
graduating like these characters are going to feel a bit
more potency, are going to feel a little bit more,
indicted's the wrong word because it's not an assault on
them necessarily, but they're going to feel a little bit

(01:16:35):
more of an attachment, if you will, to these characters.
The thing that surprised me about it is that it
is a high concept. There's no doubt. And it's a
minimalist type film. And so as a viewer, if you're
captivated enough by it, if you're intrigued enough by it,
as I was, you can't help but think, where is

(01:16:58):
this going? How is this journey going to end? I
don't know that any ending can be 100% satisfying. And
I don't know if it is 100% satisfying, but at
the same, at the same time, watching it I was
I was so pleasantly surprised with how effectively Olam kept

(01:17:26):
it feeling vibrant kept it feeling like there was always
something new that there was not only something new always
to look at the way these characters were finding ways
to pass the time finding new ways to emotionally challenge
themselves to have new ways that they were, that they

(01:17:49):
were in tension with each other and intention with themselves.
That that's, that's one of the challenges as a viewer
watching the film is just thinking, how are we going?
How are we going to pass the time with these
characters and keep it interesting and keep it from getting monotonous?
And it didn't feel that way. It never got that.

(01:18:11):
It never got to that point for me, these characters.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
Yeah. I'd agree. And to your point about the ending is, yeah,
when you come up with a high concept like this,
you're setting yourself up to fail with an ending that's
going to be completely satisfying for everyone. I kind of
loved where this ended with a mixture of mystery and humor.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
And without undercutting anything that came before. I feel like.
So that is, again, for a emerging filmmaker, that is
a challenge you set for yourself. Not only the box visually,
physically you've placed yourself in, but also having to come
up with a resolution to this concept. And I think

(01:18:55):
Ola manages both pretty impressively.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
We really can't get into this because it would be spoiler,
but I'm just going to ask you this generally anyway.
The number... 90 seconds has significance in this.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
Do you have a theory on that? Have you researched that?

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
I haven't. Why, why exactly that amount of time? No,
I've researched other bizarre things related to this movie, but
not that. So you've piqued my curiosity. Do you have something?

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
I think I have something.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
It can't be random, right?

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
It just cannot be. Why would it be that? As
well thought out as this movie is, it can't be, right? No,
it just, it simply can't be. And so I think I,
I think I have a theory. I don't think it's that,
that incredible, that remarkable, but it seems kind of obvious
to me or it just pedestrian, if you will, but

(01:19:54):
I don't know what else it could be in relation
to this film. And, and the state that these characters
are in, but I'm just curious and I'll have to
run it by you off air and see what you.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
Oh, cause it would, it would spoil. It would spoil.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
It would, it would give away, it would certainly give
away the state these characters are in, which I don't
think we want to get into those kinds of details.

Speaker 1 (01:20:18):
Okay. Fair enough.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
At this, at this point for, for people who are
coming to this, this movie, this movie fresh. and we
are recommending that people see It Ends, and we are
going to add it to our list of Golden Brick
nominees over at filmspotting.net. It opens in limited release this weekend.
What are you doing here? I'm coming with you.

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:20:40):
Please get out.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
I made a double bet with Ken, and you can't
make me look uncool in front of Ken. Ken's not cool!
He is to me. Time to take a look at
some poll results. A couple of weeks ago, we asked
you to choose a director's third feature, That was released
since 2020. I said this wasn't arbitrary. It's not arbitrary.

(01:21:02):
But now you're going to have to remind me what
the tie-in to the show was.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
What third feature were we discussing on the show?

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
A recent... Wow, Adam.

Speaker 3 (01:21:16):
What was the movie we were talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
You're really putting us both on the spot here. It's
too late as we're recording this.

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
We're failing our producer, Sam, on this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
Jane Schoenbrun, of course, in Teenage Sex and Death at
Camp Neon.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
Of course the answer is that obvious.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
The movie that we both think is the best of
the year so far that we just reviewed two shows
ago is the tie-in for this poll question.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
Sometimes doing this show is like being in a car
on a road that just never ends. Interesting theory. You
forget what show you did when and they blend together.
Where's the turn, Josh? Where is the turn? Did we
miss it? I think we missed it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
So your options were these. Greta Gerwig's Barbie, Ari Aster's
Bo is Afraid, Brady Corbett's The Brutalist, Olivia Wilde's The Invite,
Chloe Zhao's Nomadland, Jordan Peele's Nope, Robert Ager's The Northman,

(01:22:16):
or you could go other, write in a candidate that
we failed to include in the poll. Josh, how did
it come out?

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
Always notable when other is not in last place. And
in this case, it is not. Last place goes to
Ari Asters. Bo is afraid with 4% of the vote.
Other did get 5%. And then right there with those
two is Robert Eggers, the Northman with 6%. Chloe Zhao's
No Man Land, 8% of the vote. The Brutalist, 9%.
Little jump up here for the invite. Obviously the most

(01:22:45):
recent option in this poll. The invite still received 12%
of the vote. I mean, that's pretty impressive actually. But
it was going to come down to these two, Nope
and Barbie. Barbie took it. 31% of the vote for
the win. That means 26% went to Nope. But yeah,
Greta Gerwig for the win here.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
Almost a third going to Greta Gerwig and Barbie. Here's
Andy Bucati. He says, when you factor in the degree
of difficulty of taking the general concept of freaking Barbie
and turning it into a film. Actually, I'm not familiar
with that version of Barbie. Freaking Barbie. What store? Is
that available at and turning it into a film that
appealed to all ages and genders appealed to the masses

(01:23:26):
and the art house crowds and the critics was the
highest grossing film domestically the entire year and garnered copious
end of year accolades, including eight Oscar nominations. What an accomplishment.
And yet, despite all that, it's still her third best film.
What a filmmaker.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
I mean, freaking Barbie, clearly weird. Barbie's sister, Adam. Good point.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
You're right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
All right. Devin Suber wrote in most filmmakers would kill
to have a scene half as good as the star
lasso experience. Incredibly, it's not even the best sequence in
the film. Gordy's home, raining blood. And don't even get
me started about seeing Inside Jean Jacket, still one of
the most disturbing things I've ever seen. Nope, was my

(01:24:06):
number one film of 2022 from the moment I saw it,
practically as soon as those scenes hit. And nothing could
ever even begin to dislodge it. Along with Schoenbrunn, Peele
is one of those filmmakers you only need to mention
to get my butt in that seat.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Here's Rob Stager. It could be recency bias, but the
invite really knocked me flat, so I'm giving it a
slight edge over nope today. And Josh, you know this.
I didn't think there was, well, it's not that I
didn't have good or high expectations for the invite after
your high praise and all the good buzz, but it

(01:24:41):
didn't seem that likely that a feature by Olivia Wilde
was going to fare well in any poll that I'm
voting in after My mixed take on Booksmart and my
very negative take on Don't Worry Darling, but having now
had the pleasure of catching up with The Invite, it's
one of the films of the year.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
Love it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:01):
Very easily.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
You're on board. Very easily. And I imagine if it
came out a year ago and we did this poll,
it would be giving Barbie some pretty tough competition.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
Yeah, maybe so.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
Here's Patrick. The esteemed Sam Van Halgren gave Nomadland five
stars on Letterboxd. which is my vote. That is all
the defense rests.

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
Okay, Patrick.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
It, you know, it gives me no pleasure to, to
ridicule Chloe Zhao or Francis McDormand, but, but Patrick, you
know that, you know that Sam is wildly incorrect sometimes, right?
Just wildly off base.

Speaker 1 (01:25:37):
But, but usually not positively, right? I mean, well, you're right. Wait, no, wait, wait.
I forgot about Temple of Doom. Nevermind. Take that back. Sam, Sam,
cut that out.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
Yeah, good point. Here's Kyle Cresce. Bo is afraid without question.
So Kyle somehow made up all 4%, just hitting the
vote over and over again. Bo is afraid without question,
so deeply unhinged and chaotic, but Aster is always in control.
It's one of the most overlooked films of the decade,
and as time goes on and Aster's career continues, it

(01:26:10):
will be looked back on as a masterpiece. Well, now
we at least know what Kyle's, or I should say,
what Ari Aster's Nome de Plume is. It's Kyle Cresce.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
That is bold, Kyle. We shall see. You may prevail
in the end. Here's our friend Jeffrey Overstreet. It's between
Gerwig and Peele. Both third films delivered on the promise
of the previous two and made me all the more
eager to see what comes next. But wait, we're forgetting someone.
Doesn't director Tom Moore qualify? The master of Cartoon Saloon's
innovative animation studio directed The Secret of Cowles in 2010,

(01:26:44):
then Song of the Sea in 2014, and then Wolfwalkers
in 2020. I'd argue that Wolfwalkers is the most visually
enthralling of the three. We find him elaborating on the
stylistic strength of the first two. If I learned that
new films from Moore, Peel, and Gerwig were opening next weekend,
I'd buy tickets for all three, but I'd go for

(01:27:05):
Moore's first and maybe more than once. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
I love the take. I love it anytime someone's advocating
for a filmmaker that certainly is not getting enough attention,
but I have a feeling if we included Tom Moore
in the poll, he would have gotten less of a
percentage than Ari Aster.

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
I think that's probably true. It's just a little bit
of an animation bias, or should I say animation awareness?
Those are all great films, but yeah, I don't know
if I could put them up against Nope or Barb.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
A few more here. J.P. Aguirre. I will definitely have
to vote for other for B. Gahan's masterpiece, Resurrection. I
don't think any film has blown me away in originality
and ambition as this one. Not only do I think
it's one of the best films of this decade, but
for me, might be one of the best of all time.
The others are Kaylee Blues. Is that Kaylee Blues, Josh?

(01:28:00):
That's what it looks like as it's spelled in front
of me. I haven't seen it, nor have I seen
Long Day's Journey Into Night from 2018. I am.
Sadly deficient when it comes to that filmmaker.

Speaker 1 (01:28:11):
JP is shaming us both here, so I'm afraid I
can't help you out. Mark Friedman says this, Todd Field
deserves this nod for Tar. He moved out of the
small-slash-searing family drama and into a different realm of epic,
big-personality tragedy with Tar. And he guided an already great actor, Blanchett,
toward her all-time greatest performance. And yeah, Todd Field in

(01:28:34):
the bedroom and Little Children before this. Didn't he come
up when there was discussion.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
Of the poll? We certainly knew that he qualified. We
just all felt like it was a different poll with
Todd Field in it. It didn't feel like the same
generation of filmmakers. And that is certainly the case if
we're including RMP's vote, which is Victor Arise, who also
has just three, The Spirit of the Beehive from 1973

(01:28:59):
and Else. from 1983. And amazingly, 2023's Close Your Eyes.
He has my vote for that last one and my
gratitude for them all. I've only seen The Spirit of
the Beehive. So thank you for reminding us.

Speaker 1 (01:29:14):
I like where RMP is going. I've seen that. And
Close Your Eyes made my top 10 list that year.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
Really?

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
But again, yeah, again, it's a situation of the space
between those films is just different than the experience we
were thinking of when we look at who was in
the poll, where these are filmmakers who had in succession,
building excitement, building expectation, a little different there in the
case of Arise. But Close Your Eyes, great film.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
I knew Close Your Eyes sounded familiar and I'm trying
to kind of quickly, yeah, I've tried to look up
to see whether or not I had actually seen it
and I was speaking out of turn, and I have
seen it, and I was very favorable on it, so
we must have talked about it on the show, and
it turns out only El Sur is one or the

(01:30:01):
one of those three films that I have not seen.
Thank you to everyone who wrote in and shared your
feedback and everyone who voted in that poll. The new
Deeply Flawed Film Spotting poll is inspired by this weekend's
re-release of T2 Judgment Day. We're asking you to choose one,
and only one movie villain, Josh, the choices are.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
Agent Smith from The Matrix, Annie Wilkes. I should pause
between each of these so listeners can get a chance to,
you know, who's Annie? Oh, Misery. That's right. Okay, this
one's obvious. Hannibal Lecter, The Silence of the Lambs. How
about John Doe? That's seven. Scar, of course, The Lion King, T-1000, obviously,

(01:30:45):
Terminator 2, Judgment Day, and yes, We will have the
category of other. A lot of suggestions on the Film
Spotting Discord, which is a benefit for Film Spotting family members.
People there threw out Nicholas Cage's Caster Troy from Face Off,
Billy Zane's Cal Hockley in Titanic, Warden Norton, Shawshank Redemption.

Speaker 2 (01:31:07):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
How about this? Shooter McGavin, the villain, Adam of Happy Gilmore.
Kaiser Soce, of course, usual suspects. And I don't know, Mr.
Blonde from Reservoir Dogs, is he a villain?

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
Are you going to bark all day, little doggie?

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
Are you going to bite? I mean, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
I guess. I wouldn't want to hang out with him. Unforgiven,
we could also include Little Bill, someone suggested. So yeah,
I don't know. Do you have an obvious answer from
the official options?

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
It's tough because all of those choices feel pretty good
to me. And if you look at I hadn't looked
at this list before we put this poll, but as
I Google it and you look at the AFI 100 years,
100 heroes and villains list, you've got naturally, as you'd expect,
Hannibal Lecter's number one. So you've got a 90s movie

(01:31:56):
villain at number one. You've got, I'm sure there's a
few other 1990s villains on there. You know who actually
one of them is that isn't on this list? Annie
Wilkes is on the list. Number 17, Eamon Goath from
Schindler's List.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
Oh, interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
Wow. So I could see that. These feel like pretty iconic, intense,
scary movie villains from the 90s. It depends on how
you're approaching it, obviously, as always. Going back to what
you said, though, if you are taking that to heart,

(01:32:36):
I am only taking that to heart because, Josh, when
I first saw, for example, agent Smith, it's kind of
easy for me to write off agent Smith because there's
nothing really compelling about agent Smith. It's just a machine.
And that's kind of true with the T2. Now T2
is more interesting to me. The T1000 is more interesting
to me for whatever reason, maybe it's just nostalgia. Then,

(01:32:59):
you know, I was younger and I feel more interesting too.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
And I just have, I was younger when I saw
the movie. I have a stronger attachment to the film.
there's something about that, that character that I'm drawn to more,
but something about agent Smith is just kind of, I
don't really care that much. I I'm more interested in
John Doe. I'm more interested in Hannibal Lecter even because

(01:33:26):
Hannibal Lecter at least is provocative. Hannibal Lecter at least
makes us question things about us, right. And the nature
of good and evil and, And we're drawn to him,
even though we're also terrified by him and we find
him repulsive in so many ways. Whereas Agent Smith is

(01:33:48):
just whatever. He's just there to stop us from doing
good things.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
Good performance. Great.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
Yeah. But yeah, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:33:58):
And Scar kind of similarly is like, Scar is just
a bad lion or whatever. Who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:34:03):
Whoa. Whoa.

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
And I love Jeremy Irons, but no. Okay, now.

Speaker 1 (01:34:09):
If we go with the construct, the theory that I
said at the top, that a good villain, you can
have sympathy for, or you can understand the motivation.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
I went too far with Scar, Josh.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
That's Scar, right? Is he? That's Scar.

Speaker 2 (01:34:22):
I haven't seen him since 93. He's the overlooked brother.

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
I can sort of understand where Scar is coming from,
but this is, I'm going to go your way. You
often feel like there's a clear answer, like, There's a
Mount Rushmore, right? In this case, there's only one face

(01:34:46):
that should be on the 90s villain Mount Rushmore. Yes.
Is there?

Speaker 2 (01:34:51):
Did I guess right?

Speaker 1 (01:34:53):
There's Hannibal Lecter. Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
I thought you were going to go with Andy Wilkes.

Speaker 1 (01:34:57):
No, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
It's Hannibal Lecter, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:34:58):
It's Hannibal.

Speaker 2 (01:34:59):
I mean, this is- It's like, what is this? What
are we doing here?

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
What are we doing?

Speaker 3 (01:35:03):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:35:04):
And I don't even, I have no sympathy for Hannibal
Lecter or even want to understand his motivation. So I'm
going against my own reasoning here.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
Most interesting character, most interesting performance.

Speaker 1 (01:35:15):
It's, yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:35:18):
Iconic, unquestionably the most iconic.

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
Let's proceed anyway and let's see if we're both wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):
We'll pretend this is actually a poll question and we'll
mock everybody who voted for someone else.

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
That sounds like fun.

Speaker 2 (01:35:31):
We'll pretend to read their comments with interest.

Speaker 1 (01:35:33):
Exactly. Okay. I could do it. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:35:36):
Vote and leave a comment at filmspotting.net. We'll share the
results and your comments in a couple of weeks. Josh,
that is our show.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
If you want to connect with us on social media,
you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, Letterboxd, YouTube,
and Blue Sky at FilmSpotting. I'm Matt Larson on film.
We are independently produced and listener supported. You can support
the show by joining the FilmSpotting family at filmspottingfamily.com. You
can listen early and ad free. You'll get monthly bonus episodes,

(01:36:05):
a weekly newsletter, and access to the entire show archive.
For show t-shirts and other merch, go to filmspotting.net slash shop.

Speaker 2 (01:36:13):
Bad Lion is definitely the next name of my band.
American Doctors playing at the Gene Siskel Film Center. That's
a documentary about three American doctors saving lives while risking
their own in Gaza. Colony is the latest from the
director of Train to Busan.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Idiots.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
It's about two idiots of the title, Dave Franco and
O'Shea Jackson Jr. They're hired to transfer a rich teen
to rehab. It's written and directed by Macon Blair. The
Sun Never Sets is the latest from Joe Swanberg. It
stars Dakota Fanning, Jake Johnson, and Corey Michael Smith. It
ends also out in limited release and recommended by both
of us. In wide release, you can see Buddy, kids

(01:36:54):
TV star Buddy, an orange unicorn, starts to crack when
a kid refuses to play along. Our friend Isaac Feldberg says,
good God, this goes so much harder than you're expecting.
The cast includes Kristen Milioti, Keegan-Michael Key, Michael Shannon, and
Patton Oswalt.

Speaker 1 (01:37:10):
I'm in. We've got to congratulate Isaac, too.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
Oh, I saw that. New gig at Letterboxd.

Speaker 1 (01:37:16):
Over at Letterboxd. So very exciting news.

Speaker 2 (01:37:19):
Congrats, Isaac.

Speaker 1 (01:37:19):
Congrats, Isaac. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:20):
Coyote vs. Acme is being seen by people on screens.
Wiley Coyote sues Acme Corp with Will Forte and John Cena.
T2 Judgment Day, 35th anniversary re-release. We'll go ahead and
tell people now. We will be late to this because
it's coming out in theaters now, but we do have
this penciled in. a few weeks from now to revisit

(01:37:43):
this as a sacred cow. So it should be fun
if that does indeed come to fruition. Ridley Scott's The
Dog Stars with Jacob Elordi, Margaret Qualley, and Josh Brolin
is also out. Next week in your film spotting feed,
the movie racket with Michael Phillips returns. Here is the
law of motion pictures they will be wrestling with. It's

(01:38:04):
a Samuel Golden quote. I love it. It's going to
be a great show. Pictures are for entertainment. messages should
be delivered by Western Union.

Speaker 1 (01:38:14):
I like that one.

Speaker 2 (01:38:15):
They'll debate it. Tuesday on Film Spotting SVU, it's Desert
Warrior on Hulu, a 7th century Arabia set epic with
Anthony Mackie, Sharon Copley, and Ben Kingsley. It's directed by
Rupert Wyatt, who made Rise of the Planet of the Apes.
On Thursday, it's part two of the next picture show's
pairing with The End of Oak Street and Steven Spielberg's

(01:38:35):
The War of the Worlds. And then this is going
to be great. On Friday, Film Spotting, A draft, me, you,
Roxanna Haddadi, drafting Ridley Scott films.

Speaker 1 (01:38:48):
You know what I just picked up from the library today? What?
My DVD of G.I. Jane.

Speaker 2 (01:38:53):
Oh, I haven't seen it.

Speaker 1 (01:38:54):
Which I have never seen.

Speaker 4 (01:38:55):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:38:55):
See, there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:38:56):
I do have maybe three other Ridley Scott films I
kind of want to watch ahead of G.I. Jane.

Speaker 1 (01:39:05):
Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:06):
I don't know if the draft will actually go that
deep that I need to watch these films, but... I
kind of want to watch them, and you never know.

Speaker 1 (01:39:14):
Maybe I'll watch G.I.

Speaker 2 (01:39:15):
Jane.

Speaker 1 (01:39:15):
You're saying Rex Anna, or maybe I'm not going to
take G.I. Jane, number one?

Speaker 2 (01:39:20):
I don't know. Not number one. I have a pretty
good feeling about that. So we do have to find
out who's going to draft first, what the order is
going to be, who's going to be so unlucky as
to not get Alien or Blade Runner, who's going to
have to pick G.I. Jane third. That's what we'll have
to find out with the draft order. Look forward to
that draft coming Friday.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe DeSoto and Sam
Van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go.
Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone
at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at WBEZ.org. For
Film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening. This conversation can
serve no purpose anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
Goodbye.

Speaker 3 (01:40:09):
Bye.

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Top 5 Needle Drops (Pt. 1) and It Ends | #1078

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Top 5 Needle Drops (Pt. 1) and It Ends | #1078