Skip Bayless on The Catch | Cowboys vs. 49ers - Games with Names

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
January tenth, nineteen eighty two, Candlestick Park, San Francisco, California, Montana.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Drops back, rolls right, looks to the back of the
end zone.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Dwight Clark leaps into the fog. This is the catch.
Welcome to Games with Names. I'm Julian, they're Jack and Kyler,
and we're on a mission to finding the greatest game

(00:33):
of all time. And we got a great episode today.
We got the one and only Skip Bayless. And if
you haven't already, drop a like and subscribe to Games
with Names. Let's go Games with Names of production of iHeartRadio.
Welcome to Games with Names. Today, we are looking at

(00:55):
the catch, the nineteen eighty one NFC Championship between the
Cowboys and the forty nine Ers, with the Skip Bayless
Skip in one sentence, Why did you choose this game?

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Because it was the most pivotal game in NFL history.
It ended one dynasty, or it was beginning of the end,
and it launched another that could be called the greatest
dynasty ever, the Walsh Montana forty nine er dynasty.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Is this the greatest game of all time?

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Remember you're talking to a lifelong diehard Dallas Cowboy fan,
So it's hard for me to go there emotionally but
spectator wise, and I was there for this game as
as a columnist.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
I'm up in the press box.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
It was the greatest spectator game I've ever seen because
the forty nine Ers, believe it or not, turn the
ball over six times and won the game six times.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Dallas turned it over three times.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
So it's it's a turnover fest and a touchdown pass
fest that culminated with not only arguably the greatest play
throw catch ever, but there there's another play that we
can talk about that happened after the catch that could
have should have canceled the catch by the Dallas Cowboys.

(02:25):
So so my point is it was it was good
to the last drop, so to speak, and it even
had sort of a false bottom to it, which was
the Dwight Clark catch that then there's a Drew Pearson play,
one of the great receivers ever that we can talk about.
But yeah, it's to me, the greatest spectator game ever.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Ah Man, We've had a lot of games on and
that's pretty convincing. When Skip the King debater comes on
and he throws his point, his take on why it's
the best very well said, Now let's we'll get into
the game. Let's let's talk about your sports fandom. Yeah,
you're from Oklahoma City. I am Dallas Cowboys phenom fan.

(03:07):
Were how did this all start?

Speaker 2 (03:10):
So? I'm ten years old fourth grade. Had an uncle
who was an assistant high school football coach in Dallas
named Jim Bell, assistant football and basketball coach, and he
knew how much I loved both those sports, and so
he he badgered my parents into bring him to Dallas

(03:32):
on a weekend because we got this new team in
town called the Cowboys, and they're battling at that point
with the other team in town, the Texans, who eventually
became the Chiefs because Lamar Hunt moved. He said, I
can't fight with the Cowboys anymore. I got to move
to Kansas City. I have some water, do you guys?

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Oh, didn't even see this.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
So my parents, not sports fans, one weekend in the fall,
said okay, we want to go to Dallas for vacation
for a weekend, but we'll drag you.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
I was the oldest.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
We'll drag you along and on Sunday we'll take you
to the Cotton Bowl. The old Cotton Bowl to see
this game. And my team at that point, this is
way before your time, was the Saint Louis Cardinals. They
were not the Arizona the Saint Louis Cardinals because that
was the only team we could get on television in

(04:35):
Oklahoma City at that point. So every Sunday, I'm watching
the Saint Louis Cardinals, oldest organization in football, that is correct,
and they are throw at seventy five times a game team.
They're fun to watch, and I was addicted to watching them.
So I picked the Saint Louis Cardinal game and we
go to the old Cotton boll and it's like half full,

(04:58):
and the Cardinals won thirty four to twenty four.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
And yet I'm looking at.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
These uniforms of the home team and they got the
big white stars on the shoulders and stars on the
helmets and that metallic blue, and it just it got
in my eyes and then it got in my soul.
And I left the Cotton Bowl at age ten thinking
kind of loved the home team.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
And from that point on I was hooked. And I
often ask kids.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
I meet, New York, Chicago, LA, wherever I am, how
did you become a Dallas Cowboy fan in New York.
My wife Ernstein and I used to run into kids
all the time walking on when I worked at ESPN.
We'd be walking on Eighth Avenue on Saturday and we'd
see lots of Cowboy jerseys and hats. Don't you what
happened to you? It was the jerseys, you know, the

(05:50):
jerseys get them? Yeah, and it does. It just gets
in your eyes and you just think that's so cool,
and it just creates generations of Cowboy fans. And that's
why they are quote unquote America's team. They're actually the
world's team. You know, I think they are.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Well.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
I mean every year I look at the final TV
ratings for the season and I see the top five
games every year feature the Dallas Cowboys.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Every year, it's like clockwork.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
So they are the most valuable franchise in the world,
including all the soccer franchises, and they haven't been back
to an NFC Championship game in thirty years.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
It's crazy to me. What's your favorite Cowboy era?

Speaker 2 (06:38):
You know, the tough one for me because I wrote
three books about the Jimmy Jerry Cowboys from eighty nine
through ninety six. So that's a special place in my heart.
But my all time favorite cowboy was Roger Staubach because
he was the greatest cowboy quarterback. He was Roger the

(06:59):
Dodger Heisman Trophy winner out of Navy and.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Went to tour. He went to Didn't he go to war?

Speaker 2 (07:06):
He went to Vietnam? Yeah, yeah, he did a tour
of Vietnam. And I got to know him. I covered him,
I played a lot of basketball against him with him,
and and he was the greatest competitor I was ever
around in the Brady realm. I'm you know, it's just
you got to play with the greatest ever. And as

(07:27):
a competitor, Brady is I used to call Psycho Tom
because he's got a split personality, as you know better
than anybody. You're coming down the tunnel with Brady and
he's like flipping a switch, going to somewhere else, Like
you don't know who that guy is, right, And that
was Staubach, nicest guy ever and then whole blooded football

(07:48):
killer during games, and he threw the original Hail Mary
pass to Drew Pearson and he was as clutch as
anybody this side of Tom Brady. So in my heart
of heart art. You know, it's sort of the seventies, sixties,
seventies Dallas Cowboy, Tom Landry, Dallas Cowboy. Those are the

(08:10):
teams for me that they were the breakthrough teams. They
went to five Super Bowls and then the catch happened.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Then the catch happen. Yeah, Now you played basketball with Starbauch,
I did it. It was a lot. Did you d
him up? Ever?

Speaker 3 (08:27):
A lot, believe it or not.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Because he had just retired and so he was thirty
eight and I was probably thirty five, maybe thirty four
or five, I don't know, but but he.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
Was trying to find an outlet for his competitive edge.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
And so.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
We both belonged to this sort of fitness club called
the Aerobic Center in Dallas, and I would run there
every day in the afternoon and I would see him
and he'd say, come play, and we just do pickup games.
And then it got more and more severe and fierce
and crazy because he was psycho, complete psycho competitor. And

(09:06):
we culminated with one basketball war where he wanted to
get even with me. It's a long story and it
wasn't because of me. It's because of the team I
was on. But he invited that team that I was
on for a rematch one day and ask people from
his company, which was a real estate firm. He brought

(09:26):
spectators to the game, and they cleared out the gym
at the Aerobic Center, and they had fold out seats
from the side that would fold up so you could
actually make it into a little sort of gym where
like a little arena. And there must have been I
don't know forty people in the stands, something forty or

(09:47):
fifty people.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
And he annihilated me. And he brought in a ringer.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
I don't know if you remember Cliff Harris for the Cowboys, Okay,
who was another psycho hitter, not a very good basketball player.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
But Cliff guarded me.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
And I think I didn't score, you know, like like
I one of those deals, but I got to see
inside his competitive spirit, like up close and personal, and
it was scary and and he he put me in
my place.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Man. Yeah, he does have an aura. I mean he
came and talked to our team a few times.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
Oh interesting.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Bill would always have some someone come talk to the
team every offseason, and when one year it was Roger
and he just has an aura about him. He just
spits success. I mean, he's a billionaire off the fiellionaire.
You know he made that real estate company. What he did.
He's done so many great things for our country. He's
done things for the NFL. I mean, he's just he's

(10:52):
a great example for a lot of young football players
on how to do it, I mean, on how to
really live live out that dream. Now, what other sports
did you like?

Speaker 3 (11:03):
Baseball?

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Who's the team? I mean?

Speaker 2 (11:06):
I like to play baseball in high school. That was
my best sport in high school. So I was obsessed
with playing baseball and.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Wanted to go on, what are we playing? What are
we batten.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Which position?

Speaker 1 (11:17):
What are we playing? And what are we batten in order?

Speaker 2 (11:21):
So I played shortstop and catcher, which is a weird combination,
but it was because we had a really good senior catcher.
So my junior year I had to play shortstop and
I wasn't that good. I had a big arm, so
I could play catcher. And I always hit third my
senior year and hit three fifty ish and I was

(11:43):
probably the best player on a bad team, and thought
I could go on and play and I ended up
winning a writing scholarship to Vanderbilt, and I'd never even
been to Vanderbilt.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
When I wanted, I was like, what do I do?

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Because it was full so and there's no way my
mom could have paid for this, so I just closed
my eyes. Went and Vanderbilt is a legendary SEC baseball
power and even in those days, they were legendary already,
but they were all Nashville kids.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
So I get there.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
In early September and the coach called me in my
dorm room as a freshman. He said, I know you play,
We've heard about you playing. Would you just come out.
We can't You're on scholarship, so just come out and
fall and see what just he wanted to see what
I could do. So I went to the first workout

(12:38):
my fall semester. I barely I don't think i'd started
class yet, and I walked out there with those Nashville
kids and I looked around and I went through they
took a little VP in some infield, and I just said,
maybe when I'm a senior, I could be a utility player,
you know, like one of those where I might get

(12:59):
to play here and there against bad teams. And I
knew Vanderbilt because I was a public school kid from
Oklahoma City. I knew it was going to be hard
academically on me, which it was, but I did well,
but I knew.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
It was time to stop. Ye and I didn't go back.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Wow, you know, there's there's nothing like taking in field.
I miss taking infield.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
That was How good were you in high school?

Speaker 1 (13:26):
I was pretty good. I was pretty good playing short short,
played short. I ended up hurting my back from overuse
a a protruded disc because my buddy had a cage
and we would take five hundred cuts a night. Really,
and I played like three games my senior year. And
did you have power? I had? I had explosion. I wasn't.

(13:48):
I wasn't like fully grown yet, but I could always
hit the ball hard. You know, I could always explode on.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
The ball because you always amaze me in football because
you're bigger than people think. Yeah, you know, like you
play small because you play quick, but but you have
some stature to you or you wouldn't have made it,
you know, like you wouldn't survive.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
I was two hundred pounds, yeah, I mean I was
a buck ninety eight, which I was shorter than a
lot of guys. But she was thick.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
You're thick and you carry impact. You know, you could
run through tackles. And the main thing was you could
take the beating that you have to, at least for
a while you took it. But I could see where
you would be a very good baseball play. Did you
play basketball or I played basketball too in high school?

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yeah? It was a three sport athlete I was. I
never knew. I didn't know the intricacies of basketball like
I knew in football. Like my vision on the field
of football just came so easy, like setting guys up,
setting blocks up, being able to know space basketball I
didn't really know. I was just the most athletic kid

(14:58):
that could get all the steel I could get to
the hoop, you know what I mean. So like basketball,
I just did to really stay in shape. I played
some aau when I was real young, yep, And then
I loved I played a lot of baseball, and I
you know, my dad probably wore me out with that.
We used to fight every day, you know, like he
would throw to me every day.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Really yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
We used to train BP like BP. I would take
grounders for hours. Before I wanted you to be a
baseball You wanted me to be a baseball player my dad,
because he played baseball and that football. I was just
always natural, Like it was just.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
How early did you play quarterback?

Speaker 1 (15:35):
I didn't play quarterback until high school. Really, I was
running back from Pop Worn. I played a lot of
a lot of Pop Warner. I won two national championships
at Pop Warner. Unbelievable, it was it was Pop Warner.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
Were you the star?

Speaker 1 (15:49):
I was? I was this. I had like thirty six
touchdowns in like ten games.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Were you fast right away?

Speaker 1 (15:56):
I was always really quick, really fast. I was the
fastest until twelve. Then twelve, everyone hit puberty. I didn't.
I didn't hit puberty until I was about eighteen, and
so then I was still I was still one of
the best players. Yeah, and I could out quick everyone,
but I can never outrun. I hit my senior year.
That's when I hit my gross spurt. And then that's

(16:17):
when you know, I went to Juco and it started
to become, you know, where I was competing against guys that.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Were How good were you as a quarterback as a
senior in high school?

Speaker 1 (16:27):
I was? I was okay. I was okay, more run
than throw. I had really good receivers. I had dominant
dominic Duncan Cruise, who was a basketball player about six
or four. I threw him like ten touchdowns. I had
Spencer Garrison, who was our four y one guy, ran
like ten to nine. I'd throw him like six seven touchdowns.

(16:49):
Kenneth Walker had a bunch of touchdowns. We had a
running back by the name of Tyres Jacks. He looked
like Adrian Peterson. If Adrian Peterson was probably twenty pounds lighter.
He was that about five eleven stout frame that where
he ran kind of high. But he was so much
stronger and faster than everyone that like he just went off.
Didn't have grades, but we rode him and we went

(17:11):
at thirteen and oh, my senior year.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
How did he do in college? Did you fall?

Speaker 1 (17:15):
He did? He didn't get the grades, and so he
ended up going to See City San Francisco City College.
I went to CSM. Then he went to Sack State
and it didn't work out. But you know, he was
a stud. I wasn't like a great high school quarterback,
and I was still learning the position. I was a

(17:36):
running back that turned into a quarterback because it was
a necessity for the team. And then you know, I
gave my all to that. Worked with Roger Theater, the
old Cowl coach. Me. Rahm, he's a big, you know,
quarterback guru. When that was all coming out back in
the day.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
How was your arm?

Speaker 1 (17:53):
I could throw it. I could throw it. I could
throw it probably about sixty five sixty yards.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
I saw just throw a couple in pro football.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, I wasn't. I only threw a couple for a reason.
You know. I remember the first day going out to
to OTA's and seeing Tom Brady throw for the first time.
You know, British Columbia came and picked up my negotiation rights.
They wanted me to come play quarterback really, and so
I was sitting there and there was still like you

(18:21):
know me, yeah, maybe I watched him throw the ball
the first time. I was like, no shot. You know,
these guys right here are twenty yard outs balls just
placed right where they needed to be. Watching him and
Randy moss Yep, it was crazy. We'll be right back
after this quick break. Now, what's like the biggest You've

(18:41):
been in the sports media game for thirty forty years?
Forty years, Yeah, don't remind me, but go a yet,
what's the biggest change you've seen since the start to
now the Internet.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
While wild west of the Internet that when I first started,
there was no TV to speak of except games on TV,
and the local TV reporters we frowned upon as fools,
like just idiots who babbled and didn't know what they

(19:20):
were talking about and asked stupid questions. So for my
first decade as a sports columnist, we were it this
is before your time, but the newspapers ruled because there
wasn't talk radio, there was nothing on television. There was

(19:40):
obviously no ESPN, and then the ESPN breakthrough came late
eighties ninety and right away I started gravitating to a
talk radio and b I started doing football shows for
ESPN while I was in Dalla as a columnist. And

(20:04):
then all of a sudden, out of nowhere came the
Internet and it it changed everything. I mean, there was
a time when I first started this business you would
not be doing this because there'd be no way to
do it.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Zero, it did not exist.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
And now a lot of people are doing this at
a very high level. And the reason the biggest reason
I left television was it felt like it.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
Was slowly but surely on the way going on the way.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Out as far as studio shows, not not the games
on TV, not the pregames on TV.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
That'll always be it just will. But there you go. Well,
I mean.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
That that works, but but this works too, and so
I wanted to do this, so I segued and try
to reinvent myself again from newspapers to radio, to TV
to podcasts.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Or in the arena, great.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Iron, Thank you, shout out you.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
And you're doing a killer job. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
I'm having fun with it. It's different because there are
no commercials. I mean, we do do little commercials within,
but but but.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
You don't you in your schedule.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, TV is hard, man, because you have these ten
minute segments and then you have to hit that and
stop because you've got to get the commercials within the
two hour show. And so you're just getting rolling. How
we got to take a break, and on this we
don't got to take a break, right, And so we

(21:47):
start to conversate and we get into it, and then
you forget where you are and I forget where I am,
and I say things I shouldn't and write.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
And that's why this.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Works, and it makes for good Internet it does, and
it makes for good in that. Now, Skip, you know,
I jumped into this world, this media world, where I
gotta sit and I gotta give my analysis on ship
stuff stuff stuff. And uh you know, I I sit
back and I watch football. I watch all the shows

(22:19):
all day long. I want to see what everyone else
is saying. I'll watch I'll watch the games, I'll watch
the cutups. Then I'll watch the shows. All just for football.
You do it for like football, basketball, you do it
for a bunch of sports. How are you watching games
and and and how are you digesting sport on a
on a daily basis? Are you watching all the games?

(22:41):
You're watching just cut ups? Because I mean, if there's
anything important in sports, Skip's got a good take on it.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah. So my wife is here in the background and
she will.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Which she did, give me this beautiful book real quick.
Let me see what she was saying. She wants watch
so much Patriots? What is this? All's how to keep
your relationship alive when you live with a sports obsessed guy?
There you go, wow, look at that. Get that wife?

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yes, So how do you watch sports? Skip obsessively? It seems,
She'll tell you, I watch every game every NFL game,
every NBA playoff game, seems like every NBA regular season game.
But I'm certainly not telling you how to do your job.

(23:37):
But this is how I do mine. I watch no
other opinion shows. I read nothing on the internet. I
don't want to know even what Julian thinks, even though
I highly respect and it would probably help me to
know some of what you know, but I don't want

(23:58):
to know it because I want my opinion to be
my opinion clean, bro like, Like, because I'm sitting watching
games on television, I'm not watching coaches tape, I'm not
watching cutups. I'm watching it live, and I'm tweeting live,
and and I'm constantly at I'm watching by myself because

(24:20):
I don't want to watch with anybody, including my wife,
especially my wife.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Right, mister, she can't come in, right.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
She can't come in. So it's just me and our
little daughter of a dog. We have a ten year
old Maltese named Hazel, and she sleeps at my feet
through every single game that I watch, and if I
scream at the TV, she looks at me with one
eye like.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (24:41):
You know, like what's wrong with you? But she it
doesn't scare if I scream. I only scream during the
Cowboy games. And I'm constantly thinking, what what's happening?

Speaker 1 (24:52):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (24:53):
What is that?

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Why was that?

Speaker 3 (24:55):
And wait a minute, why did he do that? And
he didn't do that?

Speaker 2 (25:00):
And I'm tweeting about it and I'm forming opinions on
the fly that I hope are are wholly authentically me.
And I've been doing it for a long time. And
I probably don't know as much as you do about football,
but I know a lot about football, and I'm going
to look at it a little differently than you look

(25:22):
at it, because I'm going to think of the people
involved in their backgrounds and how their backgrounds clash or interact,
and by the end of the game, I'm going to
have some opinions that aren't fake, phony opinions. There are real,
true opinions from the gut, opinions that are molded by

(25:46):
years of experience of watching games and having opinions about games,
And it's you have to train your mind to work
that way. So I don't watch games for enjoyment or escape.
I watch them for business.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
I feel the same way good like what I do
is I have we have a think group, and I'll
sit there and I'll feed We'll watch these games and
I'll see I'll see Dan Campbell go for it on
another fourth down, and I'll just sit and send a
voice message of like how many times do we have
to say we got to go for it on fourth down?
And we said we needed a bunch of points this game.

(26:25):
But the game's only twenty one to twenty two right now,
and it's the fourth quarter, So why are we going
forward on fourth down again? Like that's what I do?
Good love that, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
But that's you, yeah, and you you.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Learned it the hard way. You know, you paid your dues.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
And yet so many ex players that I debate with
on my Show's Arena Gridiron or Gills Arena, the Basketball Show,
that they still think like a player because it's how
you were raised, you know, like you grew up as
a player, and there's some player think to it, and

(27:05):
you got molded by your coaches, especially Bill, where you're
trained to think this way because that's how Bill thought.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Well, we went to school, you get your doctorate in football.
My professor was Bill Belichick. He was you know what
I mean? And I agree with that one thousand percent. Yeah,
but I also think there's value and I have a
respect for people that didn't play the game, specifically because
Bill didn't play the game, So I understand there's people
that didn't play the game that no fucking football. Yeah,

(27:35):
you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Okay, Like I always use this example right now as
we speak, the best GM in pro football is Howie
Roseman of the Philadelphia Eagles. We could debate that, but
but he has shown me as a cowboy fan and
arrival of the Eagles that he runs Super Bowl rings
around Jerry Jones as the GM of my team. So

(27:58):
Howie Roseman didn't even play high school football. So whether
you think he's the best or one of the best,
I think you'd have to say he's one of with
he didn't even play high school football. I think he
is unathletic from all that I've heard. So how how
did he learn to see some things that other people

(28:19):
can't see? It's it's because he didn't have to unlearn anything.
He came blank slate to professional football, and then he
had to pay dues up the ladder. He's he's a gopher,
and then he's this and he's an assistant to the
assistant to the assistant, and then he's this, and he
has an eye for who can play and who can't play.

(28:43):
And I think I have a pretty good eye for
who can play and who can't play and why. And
we see at the highest level, my all time favorite
athlete times a thousand is Michael Jordan. Greatest competitor, greatest
performer in an sport ever to me, even beyond Tom Brady.

(29:03):
And yet when Michael tried to run a franchise and
pick the players for the Charlotte franchise in basketball, the
sport he dominated, he proved to be the worst GM
in the history of professional sports. And over a decade
it got so bad that he finally had to throw
up his hands and sell because he's he was too

(29:26):
good for his own good. He's the greatest ever. And
his attitude was, well, I this is easy. I could
you know?

Speaker 1 (29:33):
I did?

Speaker 3 (29:35):
You can do this right.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
It's why great players seldom make great coaches. Just watched
a documentary that just came out on I think it's
on Amazon Prime about Jerry West and great player the
logo and then he tried to coach the Lakers, and
he failed miserably, and he said, I they.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Couldn't be me.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
You know, like, come on, man, you gotta you got
to play harder, you got to do you can do.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
No, they can't.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Wayne Gretzky's same issue, you know, And I put myself
in that on a smaller scale with you know, coaching
my daughter. I feel like, well, I can't coach her.
I give her to someone else because you just some
some guy, some guy. You just you want it done
a certain way, and they don't understand. I was in a
film session last night, you know, I Saturday. You know,

(30:26):
at these soccer games, she's nine, nine and they got
this high in the sky now. So we break down
the games afterwards, me and her will sit and we'll
sit and watch the whole game. And I don't know
if she likes it or hates it yet, because now
she sees it. Everything on the field we can all
see because that eye and the sky never lies.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
How's her talent level in your eye?

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Talent levels there. She's very strong, very very she can
run through contact. She's got an aggression to her. It's
just it's the you know, with with professional athlete kids,
it's not about the athleticism. It's about the want, you know,
do you want to be out there? Do you have

(31:08):
that extra attitude effort? Are we giving that? You know?
And I I like to challenge her on the field
because she's very similar to me, and that's how I
learned to learn. I learned to learn through sport, which
you know, it helped me in school with that and
with her, it's the same kind of thing. But you know,

(31:28):
we're just we're just working. Nothing's more important than the
attitude and the effort and being a good teammate. Those
are the three things. That's all I'm ever looking for
with her attitude, effort, being a good teammate. But she's awesome,
She's she's progretted nothing. I'm telling you right now. Skip
when you were talking about stabach and you know, finding

(31:50):
your competitiveness after you retire. It's so hard for a
professional athlete, especially if you've accomplished or over accomplished everything
that you've ever wanted in your life life. Yep. And
the only thing that has come remotely close, which maybe
even surpass it, is when I see my kid work
on something and progress in real life and something that's

(32:15):
the like I remember literally training a route, one route
in an off season for three weeks, working a thousand
times running that one route so I could get like
the return route. Sometimes I didn't get my foot at
the quarterback, and that's like the coaching point. You want
to whip in there, but you have to get that
foot pointed to the quarterback so you don't slip. You

(32:37):
know a lot of guys you're trying to transfer that
way fast and it took me time. You know, that
one route, you know. And to see her work on something,
whether it's the piano or tennis, you know, the un soccer,
that's like my super Bowl now you know watching that
that's the cool thing.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
So the final analysis to this is she has to
want to do it as much as you want her
to do it, or it'll never work.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
It'll never work, Okay, it'll never work. But you also
need to stick with stuff and can't just quit.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
Well sure, yeah, I got that.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
But she has to have a deep love for it, yeah,
where even if she gets frustrated, she still has the desire.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Still has it. Yeah, but she's getting it. It's young.
There were real young, really young. We're real young. Yeah,
but that's how I mean my household was different, you
know what I mean, it was it was we were
going hard. At six, seven eight, I had an older brother,
it was seven years older. And I've learned so much
through sport. You know, I love her out there because,

(33:39):
especially in a team sport and an individual sport. The
team sport, she's learning that if you don't have your
stuff together on the field, you're gonna be embarrassed, okay
from your teammates. You're gonna learn that, You're gonna learn
setting goals, You're gonna learn how to communicate. You should
see how these little girls communicate when you watch them,
you know, like, hey, Cherry, you know they're communicating. They're

(34:01):
talking to each other, which in this day and age,
it's so crazy to see little kids communicating without a
phone or something. Okay, So they learn that what else
do you got on me? What do you okay? Seconding
on me?

Speaker 2 (34:11):
I know you're coming back at age nine, does she
yet comprehend or appreciate what her dad accomplished as a
seventh round draft pick quarterback who went to a championship
team and said, I'm going to make this team and
I'm going to make a place for myself.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
On this team.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
It's unbelievable long.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Odds that you beat to get to the top of
the mountain as a Super Bowl MVP. Does she appreciate
that yet as her mentor that you came from quote
unquote nowhere to everywhere?

Speaker 1 (34:51):
She doesn't understand that quite Okay, all right, but she's
you know what I mean, it's she doesn't. But I
just went into the Hall of Fame with the Patriots
and she came to that, and it's kind of cheating.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Okay, probably grasped that.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
She's grasping, you know, because she doesn't really remember for
the first four years of her life she was out
in Boston with me. You know, she doesn't really remember
that as much, going to the training camps and this
and that. But now, you know, it's getting to that
age where I can see her putting her shoulders up
and like, yeah, I am kind of like that. I
need to be like that, you know, and it's it's awesome.

(35:28):
Now let's get back into you skip man, you're getting
over I see him over here taking in his knowledge,
and I'm like, I'm like, what is he going to say?
What is he going to debate me? How the heck
did you become such a great debater.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, but as a kid,
I was always argumentative about sports with my friends, and I'm,
as my wife will tell you, stubborn to a fault.
And and I'm smart, if I may say so myself,
and I work my a off at it live TV

(36:03):
or live any of this is all about preparation and concentration,
and I would like to think that I scored high
in both. And so I'm going to outprepare you before
a sports debate, and I'm going to know my position,

(36:23):
and I'm going to research my position, and I'm going
to stack my AMMO in my head, and I'm going
to anticipate that if you go here, I'm going to
go there.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
And if you think you.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Get me over here, well I'll just go over there
and I will undo your argument wherever you want to go,
because I've thought it through. So you're not going to
surprise me, shock me, ambush me on live whatever we're on.
And then I'm going to be stubborn to a fault

(36:56):
and I'm not going to I'm not going to crack.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
I'm not going to cave, and I'm going.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
To fight you to the death, because that's that's how
I'm built.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
So that's it. I mean, it's do skip a patriot
is the that's the patriot way I concentrate and execute.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
It is No, it is the patriot. I didn't I
never thought of it that way. And Bill's talk about stubborn.
Is there ever been a more stubborn human than Bill Belichick?

Speaker 1 (37:27):
I only played for one coach in the National Football League,
So sure, I don't have any other opinions on that.
What is a take that you're most proud of? Like,
what's the debate that you like look back on your
Like I fucking debated the ship out of that one.
I mean, there's gotta be one.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Well there the old timer is Jordan over Lebron is
the goat because I'm offended that anybody would ever try
to debate me and make a case that Bron James
is the greatest basketball player ever. That's laughable to me,
that's blasphemous to me, that's heresy, that's idiocy, and and

(38:11):
so bring it on, because folks, let's go. So that's
that's the one that's been the trademark of my career.
But it's a simple It's like a game over debate
before we start.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Okay, that's just me.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
What's the one that you what's the take that's given
you the most trouble? Okay, So.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
We just talked about preparation, concentration. So I have no
regrets on any anything I've ever said. Like, there's never
been one where I said, Oh, I blew that one,
or I screwed that up, right, wish I had that back.
I don't wish I had any of them back. So
I have I have zero regrets about Oh god, you know,

(39:08):
have I occasionally been wrong about whether a player could play?
If you ask me one, I'll tell you what I thought, Like,
I don't know, I'm off the top of my head.
Johnny Manziel I thought he was a really good college
football player, somewhat out of your mold, a little bit
bigger than you think, you know, still six feet two five.
Maybe do you know Johnny's career a little bit at

(39:33):
Texas A and.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
M oh yeah, he was a stud I mean just extraordinary,
he was he. I mean, he was Johnny football for
a reason.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
He was Johnny football.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
And because I'm from Oklahoma City and grew up a
University of Oklahoma fan, they played ou and a cotton
bowl and he I forget the numbers off the top
of my head, but he he threw for one hundred
and fifty and ran for two hundred. So he was
kind of a Julian high school college you know where
well you could run, man, you can make people miss,

(40:03):
and you had ex Johnny not not blazing fast. I
asked him because he never ran a forty and he said,
I think I could run four five ish maybe, I
don't know what what did you ever time in the forty?

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Okay, so right, he's in your ballpark. But on quickness
and elusivity, oh lord, an mercy, Johnny manziel and college football,
and plus on magic, you know, just had that magic factor.
Of course, I look back now and I say, yeah,
you had Mike Evans at six foot five, and it's

(40:37):
nice to be able to say, I think I'll throw
it up like like you said, you had the six
four guy in high school and you threw him ten touchdowns, right,
throw him a lot.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
Yeah, we just throw it up and he'll go he'll
go up and get it.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
We'll be right back after this quick break.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
But Johnny manziel I loved him. And I thought he
could play in pro football.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
But I made it clear.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
I was on ESPN on first take then, and they
wouldn't let me go too far with this because I
knew too much. But I said, I just made it alcohol.
I said, if he has any alcohol issues in pro football,
I'm out. And I didn't go into the drug side
of it, but there's both going on at a dangerously

(41:18):
high level, and so I don't know. I think I
think he can be great. And we had John Gruden
on at that point, who was the ESPN, ABC, you know,
Monday night football guy, and he vehemently agreed, and he
went all the way to he should go first overall.
To remember, the Texans had that pick and took Jadevian Clown,

(41:40):
but Gruden's advocating for Johnny going number one to the Texans,
and I thought he should be a high first round pick.
I can't remember which way, but but I thought Cleveland
got a steal. And I thought, if he can be
Johnny Football in Cleveland, which is at heart, if you
know Cleveland, it's a football town, football town, and so

(42:03):
if Johnny can be Johnny Football, he'll be bigger than
Lebron James is in Cleveland just by virtue of the
sport he plays and the position he plays in that sport.
And obviously it was a disaster. Can't call him okay,
but but again he had big off the field issues

(42:24):
that completely undid him from day one, and it's hard
to measure the intangibles.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
Can be tough man.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, at that position, you got to be elite. Yeah,
you're the face. You're the face of the team.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
But it's like the kids you played high school football with,
or even Pop Warner. You see these kids and you
see the talent, and then at some point it becomes
an intangible battle about who wants it more, who's mentally tougher,
who's more dedicated in the offseason to keep running the
same route. It's seventeen thousand times over three weeks until

(43:04):
you got it.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Who will do that? This guy will.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
So he's going to show Belichick on day one. Wait
a second, he can do that.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
Oh he can. He can return too, So he can return. Oh,
oh he could do that.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
That's exactly what it was. Day one. You wanted to turnheads.
Day one, the weekend after Coachella. Ah, you Coachella kids
out there. That was the report date, first day of
OTA's anything. Yeah, got to turn ahead where you can go.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
And I told you this story when we had you
on Arena Gridiron. I'll quickly repeat it, but I'm on
first dake and I'm pretty sure it was your first
exhibition at your first preseason game.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
And do you remember who it was?

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Or Philadelphia?

Speaker 3 (43:46):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (43:47):
And it was on a weird night, like a it
was like on a Thursday night, something weird night or Monday, or.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
It could have been a Wednesday or Thursday preseason.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Okay, it was a weird night because we had a show,
and we obviously had a Monday through Friday show. We
had a show the next day. So I'm watching the
game and this kid from what do we call it
Kent State or Kent do they call it Kent State?

Speaker 1 (44:10):
In state? It doesn't matter. I can't read, can't write,
Kn't state.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
So this little kid, this this little and again you
you played smaller on TV than you're not small to me,
and and you were jumping off my screen, returning and
catching and you're playing with twos and threes.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
I don't know, but.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Well, this was Brady's first game back from the AC Oh. Okay,
there you go. So there was a little heat in
the locker room and he was going to play there
you go. So Welker didn't play that game he had
he was dealing with a hamstring.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
Or something there you you know, So God, you got
your opportunity, one of them.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
One of them. You know that you got to be prepared.
But that there was a little heat going to that game.
And I had his first catch. He gave me a
swing route the house to punt, and I had the
opening kickoff.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
You hashed a punt, you did?

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah? Okay.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
So I go into our seven thirty am meeting the
next morning, presided over by our whoever our showrunner of
the day was. I know who it was, and I'm
not going to repeat his name publicly because he's a
friend of mine. But I immediately said, I want to talk
about this this kid for New England.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
What kid?

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I said, this Elman kid. He's the seventh round pick.
He was a quarterback in college. Seriously, I said, no, no, seriously,
this looked different to me.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
This looked real to me.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Stop and so he is out after a while, he's
laughing out loud at my take on this, and I said,
well you can laugh if you want, But come what
time was ten am Eastern? I'm going to talk about
that little kid on television? And I did, and the
rest is NFL history.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Made you look good, Skip, made you look good?

Speaker 3 (46:03):
Yeah, way to go?

Speaker 1 (46:04):
You always you know? You know, I tell you right now,
I'd be peeping at you, watching your stuff. And that's
why I've always respect you, because there'd be some stuff
you would call out that you had no sources or anything,
just through your little complexity of how your brain works.
That I'm sitting there like he spot on there like what.

(46:26):
I don't know what you're talking about. But let's get
it back to Skip, Skip. Who is one guy out
there or lady that you see roaming around on the
internet on TV that you you're just dying to debate?
You were dying to debate. I know, I saw the
Michael Parsons call out, not Micah. Give me someone else.

(46:48):
Who's someone that you see out there debate? Doesn't matter,
someone that you say I need a piece of them
because they don't know what they're talking about. They may
have a lot of shine whatever, living living or dead
too dead.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Oh yeah, you know what's funny about this? So for
a bunch of years in this business, I sat across
the desk from steven A. Smith, and I missed the

(47:21):
hell out of him because he's not only is he
my brother from another mother, but but he was my
ultimate debate partner because we drove each other crazy, like
genuinely crazy, where we didn't have to fake it. We
didn't have to trick up any debates or you take

(47:43):
this side and I'll take We never did that. I've
never done that one time in my career because I'm
going to tell you what I'm going to say and
you can either agree with it or disagree. I ain't flipping,
never flipped skip. But with steven A, it was so
perfect because we came from opposite ends of the earth

(48:05):
because he's from Queens and I'm from Oklahoma City and
black and wide and just yet we both came up
the same way through the newspaper business newspaper columnists. His
sport was basketball. I was viewed more as a football guy,
though my sport's also basketball, because he didn't know more

(48:26):
basketball than I know. So we start with that premise,
and when you say this, because I chose to leave
stephen A in twenty sixteen because I'd been doing it
for so long.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
I just said, I have a chance.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
To join a guy who gave me my first big
break in the business, Jamie Horowitz, out here at Fox
Sports one, and he was trying to start it over
and put it back on the map, and I just said,
I want to go see if I can help put
a network on the map, on the national map. Because
it was a huge challenge, and by god, we did it, okay,

(49:04):
so I to do so. A little later in my career,
I had to leave stephen A, which I didn't I
wanted to go do that, but I didn't want to
leave him. But at some point you just got to
cut the cord, right because we'd been doing that for
like fifteen years, and it wasn't that I was burned
out on it or him. We'd just done it at

(49:26):
the highest level I think any duo has ever done
it at on a consistent daily basis. So when you
say that, I still see him say something on TV
or the Internet or on his podcast or whatever, and
it just infuriates me. And so when you say it,
I want a piece of him. That's who I want.

(49:47):
I can't get him out of my head because I
think I could shut him down on that, and I
can't believe he said that and we still were friends
to in touch, but that I still I still want
to do that with him again, you know, like that,
that's that's debate. Heaven for me is him. So he's

(50:11):
the one I still want a piece of.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
I mean, it's a it's a it's a valid answer.
I think we got to set this up paper view
Dana White. Let's go set it up. Yeah, now, let's
go back into time. Let's jump into this game, and
we like talk pop culture before we get into the game.
This game took place January tenth, nineteen eighty two, and
some of the looking at this, some of the craziest
stuff that was out Sharky's Machine was number one movie

(50:34):
number one song Physical by Olivia Newton John Let's get
Physical Physical. That was I used to love her in Greece.
Oh Man Niners were the champions Super Bowl Champions NC
two A Clemson. They won in eighty two. Holy moly,
ho about that one. Kenny Anderson MVP in the NFL.

(50:58):
Ken Anderson. Actually I used to go with Ken Anderson
to Manhattan Beach because he used to train quarterbacks. Really
I think so Kenny Anderson were the Jets, right? Didn't
he play at the Jets Cincinnati? But they didn't didn't
go to.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
The Jets, But I mean they played the forty nine
ers in that Super Bowl. That I'm wrong, wrong guy,
wrong guy.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Skip. My concentrations didn't meet my preparation. There was it
you did going to be a QB coach? This can?

Speaker 4 (51:25):
Is this Kenny Anderson a QB coach for the Bengals,
the Jags, Steelers?

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Let me see did he coach? Because there was a
I think there.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Was an action to the Jets. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
There was a Kenny Anderson that used to train Matt
Castle and he also trained a couple other of those quarterbacks.
I go catch their balls. But what what was Skip
like in nineteen eighty two.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Raiders?

Speaker 1 (51:50):
The Lost arc on the new movie Guy.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
I'm a big movie guy and I was there on
opening day that opened Raiders. I saw it in the theater
in the Boulder scene where he's it's coming down on him.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
It's terrifying.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
He knock me out of my seat.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Skip, what do you?

Speaker 4 (52:08):
What do you?

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Are you a popcorn guy at the movie theater or
are we going with some old school maybe some jolly ranchers.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
No, I don't know that.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
I'm I'm a clean eater, but I would eat some
theater popcorn. I'd do a small like a kid's bag.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
Maybe.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, butter no butter, no butter no butter.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Although that some of it's already buttered.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
But yeah, I get it, I get it. Yeah. Now,
what what's a what's a movie? What's a This is
a good question. What's a sports moment or a sporting
event or a sport team that needs to have a movie. Wow,
you have a lot to pick from there. Well, because
you got you got you know a lot of good moments. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Well, I just participated over the summer. It's going back
a year. But there's a Netflix documentary on the nineties
Dallas Cowboys called The Gambler in a Cowboys I'm not
sure about the title, but it was about Jerry Jones.
It's really a monument to Jerry Jones. Came out in
August and Michael Irvin just took it over because he

(53:10):
just poured his guts out about all that he did
off the field, and I was there every day and
that that was a movie. Waiting to happen, So that
would be that was the team. But they did the
real live movie, the documentary movie for Netflix and it

(53:32):
did very well. But that's the team that just flies
into you know, like like your Patriot teams. I don't
know enough about him because Bior just slammed the door shut.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
You know.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
It's just you're on to Cincinnati, right, You're You're on.
You're always on to Cins.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
That's why everyone watches the Nuthouse because of all the
bottled up coolness that we all had in that building. Yeah,
they watch our stuff because we're letting them know what
I know. That's true.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
That is a fact.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
We couldn't talk about it and talk about it.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Yeah, and I don't I don't know how.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
I was gonna say Bill's not that interesting, but I
think he is interesting off the field, you know, Like.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
I mean, I thought it was pretty interesting seeing him
do yoga on the beach. I mean that's pretty cool. Yeah.
You know, now, did you this was Lawrence Taylor's rookie year.
Now talking about Bill, Bill loved Lawrence Taylor. Can you
explain to me how this guy changed the league? Specifically

(54:33):
early eighties mid eighties This guy was just a freak.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
He was the biggest freak I ever saw.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
And nobody had quite figured out that you could wear
fifty six and play linebacker, but you could just kind
of casually walk up to the line of scrimmage and
at the snap you could bolt and you could go
break Joe thisman's leg on Monday NIGHTE Football.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
I don't if you remember that, but he snapped.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
It and I saw him when Troy Aikman was a rookie.
He terrorized Troy Aikman and sacked him I don't know
six or seven times. He was unblockable off the edge,
and yet he's everywhere. It's like there were four or
five Lawrence Taylors on the field at one time. But

(55:23):
he was the baddest MF who ever played pro football.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Was that guy.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
And when he walked up to the edge on third
and six, it's just struck sheer terror in the heart
of the quarterback, eyes wide and because there's no left
tackle that could deal with that. With the sheer, quickness,
power and nastiness that he brought, he was going to

(55:54):
seriously try to kill the quarterback and revolutionized the pass
rush because we always thought of you're in a four
to three and you got the two defensive ends with
their hands in the dirt, and the two defensive tackles,
and all of a sudden, wait, a linebacker is unblockable

(56:17):
off the edge. Nobody ever thought of that. There was
what they used to call the red dog or blitz,
you know, back in the day.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
But yeah, okay, but but not that, and so it
just revolution.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
It put Bill Parcells on the map, and for that matter,
Bill Belichick.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
On them right there. Yeah you ever meet him? Nope?

Speaker 3 (56:38):
I never met him. Lt he didn't.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
I didn't cover him, so I I don't think I've
ever crossed his path.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
Yeah, bad man he is.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Everyone had says it. Yeah, Jackie, jump into these Niners.
Let's rip these niners real quick. The thirteen and three.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
Nine ers coming off a year one which they went
six and ten year before that. Two and fourteen is
the third year of the Bill Walsh era. First winning
season in five years, first playoff season in nine first
year with Montana starting all sixteen games. Remember before that
he had Steve de Berg in there. This was the
season the really birth to the dynasty. As we'll get

(57:15):
into in this game. Notable rookies. Ronnie lott Man Ronnie.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Right there right, we talked about it. You got a
connection there. I talk against his son, really so I
used to whoop me every every week. Really in the
one hundred it is seventh and eighth grade. Really even right,
I beat him one week in hi Jo because right
half week. Wow freaking and we got to shout.

Speaker 4 (57:37):
Out these Hall of famers Ronnie, Joe Montana, Fred Dean,
and Bill Walsh. What a team all time Niners roster
right here?

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Skip, What do you remember about the Niners team?

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Okay, You're gonna have to tell me if I'm if
I'm just spilling too much on this, Okay, because because
I know way too much about this, but this team
and this game most fascinating ever.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
So as I just pointed out, terrible team.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
The year before, the Cowboys had owned the forty nine
ers in playoffs, past owned them in the early seventies.
They played in two straight NFC championship games and then
a Divisional round game in which we, as a Cowboy fan, just.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
Trumped them, owned them.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Roger Staubach had one great comeback at old Keysar Stadium and.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
High school championship. You played it not for the city teams.
It wasn't for us, and we all wanted to play
at keys Ar. Okay.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Cool, So it was still operating after the forty nine
ers left it.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
So it comes to this season nineteen eighty one, and
I'm still thinking the Cowboys are the wow Boys. You know,
they're everything. They got it all and preseason pick to
win it all. In in October of that year, the
Cowboys go out to Candlestick to play a regular season

(59:04):
game against these guys, these nobodies. And I don't know
the point spread of the game, but even at Candlestick,
I promise you Dallas is favored by ten. And on
the way to the game, this is the weirdest thing,
but it was an.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Omen to me.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
I'm riding in the media bus, which is the third
of three buses on the way to the game. Players, players,
media with officials.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
From Berlin game probably a San Francisco.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
Now we were from Saint Francis downtown.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Forgot the Cowboys, the Cowboys, Cowboys, Cowboys.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
The Cowboys.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
So we take a circuitous route up off the freeway
and go the back ways at Daily City or in there, Okay,
and the hills are are ridiculous, like they're scary hills.
So the first bus is chugging up a hill and
stalls and make it up the hill thereby freezing Bus

(01:00:04):
two and three on the hill, and they're trying to
hold on slam the brakes, and it gets so bad
that the players have to get out and push the
first bus to the top of the hill to get
it going over the.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Hill that's out on Hunter's Point.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
Okay, there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
And it just seemed like, wait, this is America's This
doesn't happen to America's team, but it just happened. And
I'm on the third bus thinking this is weird.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Man?

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Is this is this some supernatural event? Is there a
message here? Because that's the way my mind goes. So
I'm still the deal go up in the press box
and on the field, I watch forty five to fourteen
happen San Francisco forty five, the Wow Boys fourteen and

(01:00:53):
this kid Montana from Notre Dame third round pick. Wait,
he looks he looks pretty great, and they roll up
almost five hundred yards on the Cowboy defense and hold
Dallas to about two hundred yards forty five to fourteen.
Of course, in the locker room after the game, the
Wow Boys are all saying, it's the fluke it. We

(01:01:14):
just had a bad They shake it off, throw it out,
let's next, let's go next.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
We'll be right back after this quick break.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
They go twelve and four, but the forty nine ers
just keep on keeping on and go thirteen and three.
And wait a second, they have home field throughout the playoffs,
so it comes to inevitably, maybe faithful. Wait, the NFC
Championship game is back at the scene of the crime.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Oh well, we'll just go put them in their.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Play same route. Do you guys take the same bus route?
We did not.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
We were stayed because for the NFC game they got
police escorts and they got a route you know where
we went straight into the the freeway off.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
The one oh one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Right, yeah, so the backdrop has been set. And I'm
still thinking, as a longtime Cowboy observer now that they'll
win this game by a couple of touchdowns, because that's
just the way it goes.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Now, it's taught.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Now, it's serious, right, and Cowboys jump up and lead.
They lead seventeen to fourteen and a halftime. Then Danny White,
who's trying to replace Roger Staubach, and Danny was pretty good.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
But that's all I can give him. He was just
pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
He wasn't magic, he wasn't Roger the Dodger. And yet
he throws a touchdown pass to a kid named Doug Cosby,
a tight end from Santa Clair from the Bay Area,
and all of a sudden, they're up twenty seven to
twenty one with maybe seven eight minutes left in the game,

(01:02:55):
and Montana throws a second interception to a kid named
every Everson Walls. I don't know if you remember Kubby Walls.
Everson Walls. He wound up winning a championship with Belichick
and the Giants. Everson Walls was from Dallas and that
year out of Grambling, had walked on with the Cowboys

(01:03:15):
as just a street free agent in Thousand Oaks, California
at their camp, one of fifty free agents. Back in
the day they would just bring in like one hundred,
but I think it was fifty that year. And he
somehow blocked a punt in the first preseason game and
caught Landry's eye made the team, wound up starting at

(01:03:37):
corner of the first game and led the league in
interceptions with eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
This is Malcolm Butler.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Yeah, really, it's a Malcolm Butler's story.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
But it's different because Everson Walls ran a four eight
point forty okay, and that's why nobody's drafted him or
wanted him in camp. And yet everybody thought going into
the Cowboy game, we can throw it that guy right, wrong,
because he had that thing that our man a keep

(01:04:06):
to leeb had that ball hawk gene that knows I
instinct for the football, and everybody kept trying to go
at him, and he kept intercepting everybody, including Joe Montana.
In the NFC Championship game, he picked off his second
Montana pass mid fourth quarter to Dallas.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Yeah, what's that two? Second pick?

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Second pick? So we had two in that game. Because
San Francisco turned it over six times in that game.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
He win this game.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
You can't win.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Nobody wins an NFC Championship game with six turnovers. Bill
Belichick would have quit, you know, like he just would
have walked off the field and said, I don't want
to associate with you guys. Right, But Dallas turned it
over three times, so a second pick gives Dallas the
ball back, but they can't move So the punter was
Danny White. That was his sort of claim to famous

(01:04:58):
that he was a quarterback punter. He punts San Francisco
down to its eleven yard line. So now there's four
and a half minutes left in their first and ten
at they're eleven, and they're down twenty seven to twenty one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
We're talking, this is the drive, this is it, this
is it. Here we go. Where are you?

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
I'm in the press box fifty yard line looking down
on this.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Thinking no shod well, no, no, it's it's against this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
It's still shades of the doomsday defense because they still
have Randy White and Harvey Martin and two tall Jones.
They got firepower and star power and it was the
greatest thing of play calling beauty I've ever witnessed. And
allow me to say that later in life, I got

(01:05:47):
to know Bill Walsh and became friends with Bill Walsh.
So I know Bill very well.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
God rest his soul.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
And to me, with all respect to the coach you
played four or Bill was the greatest coach to me.
And it's in part I'm biased, but as a team builder,
a personnel director slash head coach, not that Bill wasn't
but but Bill Walsh was the greatest ever and he

(01:06:18):
called plays. Okay, so he's he invented this offense that
that you saw remnants of in your offense.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
In Cincinnati, though he should be the Midwest, Yeah, Midwest.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Okay, well you know what Well touchet Well said. But
this is the first time I'm seeing it in action.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Actually, I'm a disciple of a completely different offense. You are,
you are, Charlie Weiss.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
It's different, it's very different. Okay, but you came into
the West Coast.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
We played no but we played all these West Coast teams,
and Bill used to coach against Walsh. He did, and
he brought in the nickel for that. Bill Walsh did,
and so like I I remember him, he would show
plays of LT blowing up the toss gator trap that
they've been running for twenty for forty years.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
No, it's true.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Okay, So I'm watching play after play where I'm thinking
that's clever.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
Oh, I didn't see that coming.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Receiver reverses to it. It's all out of two back.
It's weird. He's running a lot of two backs. Yeah, okay,
And all of a sudden I look up and it's
third and four at the Cowboys six yard line with
about a minute left. Okay, third and four at the

(01:07:37):
six okay, and I'm thinking, all right, surely they'll make
a play. They'll make a play. So the forty nine
ers come out in two backs again. And I today,
nobody does anybody run two back. I mean, they just
like side by side two back, They just don't do it.
So they come out in two back and they have
Dwight Clark split wide right and in the slot to

(01:08:00):
the right is Freddy Solomon, former quarterback in college that
Walsh converted to a slot receiver out of quickness, hands,
athletic ability. And at the snap, the play design is
for Dwight Clark to come pick for Freddy Solomon to
run just a quick square out, just to square out

(01:08:22):
to either get the first down because you still had
a chance to get the first down or the touchdown.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
And at the snap, Freddy Solomon slip because it's it's mud,
you playing in mud. It's candlestick, baby, and his feet
go right out from under him and he falls. So
Dwight Clark, you could just see him flinch a little
bit because he's supposed to set a pick. But he's
also supposed to continue on and run what we used
to call a zig out like a z like like

(01:08:51):
where you would run to the back line and take
two big steps and then plant and reverse because Montana
is going to roll right. Okay, so he's gonna roll right,
and you're supposed to mirror him as the second option receiver.
The protection breaks completely down, and two tall Jones at
six feet nine inches tall six' nine is all Over

(01:09:14):
montana With DeeDee, lewis another old friend of, mine a
linebacker out Of Mississippi, state in hot. Pursuit so they
they've got him dead to. Rights he's going. Nowhere he's
not gonna beat, him Because montana could run, like like really,
run especially in that first year, starting he was a
threat to hurt you with his.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Legs and he's.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Running and he's running and he's pumping and he's, pumping
and he's pretty much admitted he just finally, DECIDED i got,
Nothing i'm gonna throw it, away, Right So i'm pretty
sure he's trying to throw it away and he throws
it up into the, fog And Dwight clark running his
z out just goes up in the fog Over Everson

(01:09:58):
walls Over Everson, walls and it became a Famous Sports
illustrated cover photo and picks it out of the, fog you,
know and comes down with it in the. Stadium i'm
sitting in the press. Box it's rocking like it's an
earthquake because everybody is jumping up and down and the whole.
Thing i'm thinking the press box is going to fall

(01:10:19):
into the stands because it's going like.

Speaker 5 (01:10:21):
This.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Seriously, yeah and it was a moment of the end
of one dynasty and the launch of the forty nine er.
Dynasty but what people forget is there's still fifty one seconds, left,
okay So dallas is going to get the. Ball had
an opportunity at it's twenty five and on first and
ten from the twenty five with fifty one seconds, Left Danny,

(01:10:45):
white to his, credit drops back off play action To
Tony dorset and throws it to the greatest clutch RECEIVER
i ever. Saw no offense to you because you're in the.
Conversation But Drew pearson is in my. Book he caught
the Hail mary. Pass he caught so many big stabuch.
Throws he runs just your basic skinny post bang eight

(01:11:10):
they called, it and he Beats Eric, wright a, rookie
and is gone for thirty one, yards but he. Catches
it's a perfect throw and it looks like he's. Gone
Drew pearson's not the fastest guy because he was undrafted
out Of, tulsa so he's not a, burner but he could.

(01:11:33):
Run But Eric wright hits the burners and reaches out
and grabs him by the back of the shoulder. Pass
it's a blatant horse caller and yanks him down after
thirty one yard. Gain today's, football it's plus fifteen And
dallas is an easy field goal. Range but in those,

(01:11:56):
days thirty one from the twenty, five so you're just
barely you're to the forty. Four so you're gonna have
to run another play to get into field goal range
For Rafael, septian the cowboy.

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
Kicker, okay there it, is.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
And on the next, Play, danny Poor Danny white demons
in his, head drops back sack fumble recovered by the
forty Nine.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
Ers game over catch lives.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Because the catch was almost preempted by another. Catch, Right
so that's why that's the greatest spectator GAME i ever.
Saw that it came down to a horse collar tackle
before there was a horse caller, penalty, RIGHT i.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
Mean, yeah they weren't calling it for another thirty, years but.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
Thirty, years so it was just.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
It it's so incredible to me that this upstart team
that showed you forty five to, fourteen they showed you
who they. Were they put their cards all over the, table,
right and then you come back to this game and
The wow boys are.

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):
Saying, no, no and they, say, yes, yes we're.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Legit and whoever won that game was going to go
Beat Ken anderson in The Super bowl in The Cincinnati,
bengals and they did. So For Danny, white they went
back in the strike year with eighty two to ANOTHER
nfc championship, game his third in a, row and. Lost
and then from that point on it was it was
over For Tom.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
Landry it was.

Speaker 3 (01:13:35):
Over and it led To Jerry.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Jones and it led To Jerry. Jones where does that
catch ranking all TIME nfl? Plays it's got to be up, there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
You.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
Know for me, AGAIN i.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
CAN'T i have to look through the cowboy prism or
cowboy blue colored, glasses.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
The Hail mary.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
PLAY i know it's way before your, time but it's
so unbelievable because they're they're dead At minnesota out it's,
outdoors and it's like below, zero and it's it's ridiculously, windy,
cold like can't play. Cold although YOUR Afc championship game
In Kansas city was can't play, cold right?

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Cold it was pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
Cold it wasn't the coldest game. Though, okay all, right
So i've played in a colder.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
Game at least you could sort of feel it's.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
Cold it's, cold it's, cold but the.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Damn, mary it's It's without going through the gory detail
of the play by play, there they got no chance
And roger just, says no watches and he wills it.
Home and then at the end he throws one up
To Drew pearson and it wasn't the greatest throats against the,

(01:14:50):
wind against the, wind And drew has to kind of
come back for, it but he catches, it and then
he got away with a little push off On Nate
wright and took it in and it just shocked the
crowd into abject, silence you, know like it just it
just shut down all volume in the stadium and wait a,

(01:15:11):
second just did, That and Then roger termed it after the,
game he, SAID i had to say A Hail mary
because he was a Good catholic.

Speaker 3 (01:15:18):
Boy and it became The Hail.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
Mary so for, me that's a little more. Momentous now
you're covering the team at this, time so you're in
the locker room. After did The cowboys have the feel of,
like all, right we're going to go into a kind
of hibernation until the nineties feel or like, hey we'll be, Back,
no we're gonna be. Good did you realize through the

(01:15:45):
feel of that team that they were going to be
done for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
So you won't remember a. Player one of my all
time favorite interview players Was Charlie waters of that, team like,
cornerback a white guy cornerback who probably didn't he just
played with his head more than his.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
Talent by then he had moved to. Safety but he
was an older player and he was.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
Wise AND i used to call him there The cowboys
Poet lariot instead of, laureate like he's the lariat like a.

Speaker 3 (01:16:23):
Cowboy you, know, okay but that's thank. You and SO i.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
Always went to him for the ultimate wisdom about what just,
happened and he just he was sitting on a stool
and he just looked up at me and he, said
that kid is for. Real, Yes AND i knew when
he said that that he knew they weren't going anywhere except.

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
Up he had been convinced that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
Day and he then in the same, interview he told,
me when it comes out of his hand on, tape
it doesn't look like he has great, velocity he, said trust,
me it's it's better than you. Think it gets there
faster than it looks because he throws so effortlessly and so.
Beautifully you, know he just had pretty mechanics and just,
easy easy. Velocity where where he SAID i could hear it,

(01:17:18):
TODAY i could hear it the sizzle of, it you know.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
This, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
Okay and so when he told me, THAT i thought
because they were an older football, team, young, yeah and
so you could just feel that the torch just got
passed and the torch had been used to torch The, Cowboys,

(01:17:43):
Right that's what, happened, Man and it wouldn't be the
same For dallas Until jerry And jimmy recreated it ten years,
later you know, later it's really twelve to thirteen years.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
Later, Yeah and then you could are you that The walsh.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Dynasty it's it's up there with any dynasty, ever, right
it's The Montana born for. Four, yeah and they didn't
JUST i, know they had a hard time With cincinnati
the second, time but but they were just.

Speaker 3 (01:18:12):
Killing they just.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
Chargers they blew them. Out they just blew. Them they
were blowing teams out in l. Way they just people
don't realize how good those defenses were for Those niners,
too those defenses.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
That was and and, truly As Troy aitman will tell you,
today he said this a few months, BACK i don't
have Three Super bowl rings Without Charles. Haley, well, Well
Charles haley was A walsh pick out of where do you,
go Like James madison or a small, school you know?
Where And walsh, said, THERE i can he he can.

(01:18:49):
Play and so they used him as kind of a,
monster like a quasi you, know, yeah like a safety
linebacker who could just run and hit and nasty and.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
Crazy, yeah he was definitely. Crazy he's. Crazy he was
definitely crazy in a great way that you need on football.
Field you just do you need a little crazy on.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
There and so then the Whole Dallas San francisco rivalry
was recreated When Jerry jones went To Carmen policy and
somehow Talked policy out of a Player Charles haley that
they had decided was way more trouble than he was.
Worth and just before the ninety two season, starts, wait

(01:19:32):
they just they just basically gave Away Charles haley To
dallas Because dallas didn't have A Charles. Haley and so
Now Charles haley is the closest thing To Lawrence TAYLOR
i ever. Saw and he was hand in, dirt typical
prototypical defensive.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
End but my, god he was just.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
Unblockable like every play you just watch two people try
and they just.

Speaker 3 (01:19:54):
Couldn't large man. Too he was large.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
And an extremely explode like natural like grown man's, strength,
Explosive and all of a, sudden they go To candlestick
at the end of the ninety two season and they
flipped the script on the forty Nine.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
Ers they slipped the freaking script they, Did.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
And by then are you a forty nine or? Fan are?

Speaker 1 (01:20:18):
You by? THEN i MEAN i really remember forty Nine.
ERS i mean my dog's names Were dwight And montana
as a really, KID i, mean my dad stopped being
A niners fan when they went To Steve, young BUT
i still loved. Them like that's how Big Joe montana.
Was you, know a lot of people stopped liking The.
Niners we liked The chiefs for you a couple of

(01:20:39):
years and, then, uh BUT i love The. Niners you,
KNOW i was a Big niners.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
Fan and and don't, Forget brady was four years old this.
Game at, four he.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
Was at this. GAME i, mean they were they were
the biggest thing in the. World you got to think about, it,
yeah you, Know and and the In San francisco doesn't
get enough credit for how great of a sports town
it really. WAS i, mean The giants were. Outrageous The
warriors were good at this early. Seventies they sucked for

(01:21:13):
a long, time but then they became what they. Became
and The, NINERS i, mean The niners started to win the.
Eighties it flipped the city and everyone loved. IT i,
mean it Was Niner. Mania we'll be right back after
this quick.

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
Break so that NIGHT i had to go back to
The Saint. Francis obviously the team went on, home but
That january tenth, NIGHT i have to go back to
The Saint francis and try to sleep while Around Union
square In San. Francisco it's a parade of cars honking their,
horns and it goes until sun.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
Up seriously till sun.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
UP i couldn't sleep a wink BECAUSE i had an
early flight AND i just laid there, saying they got me.
Again they got me on the, field and then they
got me, here, right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
Gotcha those Darn San.

Speaker 4 (01:21:59):
Franciscans, jack wrap this one up and let's grade. It
that one finishes up twenty, eight twenty. Seven The niners,
win go on to beat The bengals in The Super,
bowl and we gotta put a little. Share we talked
about all The hall Of famers in this, game all
the insane. Moments we gotta give it a little shine
to the guys there broadcasting this. Game he Had vern Lun,
Quiz pat Summerle Vin, Scully Jack, Buck Chris, berman And

(01:22:20):
skip all in the. Building that's. Insane that is an
insane line up right. There that's an insane. Lineup pretty
darn cool. Man it'd be unbeatable if you Had cosell And.
Madden oh my, gosh that'd been, Unbeatable holy. Smokes but uh,
yeah and then this would spawn the one of the
Best dynasties of all TIME sf Super bowls in eighty,
four eighty, eight eighty, nine and ninety.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
Four and now you got a statue with this play
before we grade. It what was the best part of
covering The cowboys in eighty? One Everson.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
Walls because this is a true story and you're gonna
think this is like impossibly. Crazy but before the first preseason,
Game i'm sitting in the press box And i'm scanning
the what they call the flip card that had all
the lineups on, it AND i see. This this kid
is listed Named Emerson WALLS E. M. E.

Speaker 3 (01:23:14):
R S O. N Walls and just catched my eye
for a.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
Second and THEN i told you he blocked a punt
early in the, game AND i, thought, wait that's That's
Emerson walls and he's From. Grambling and THEN i go
down after the game AND i introduced myself to him
and he, Said i'm From. DALLAS i grew up not
far from. Me you, REALLY i, said it's nice to meet, You.

(01:23:37):
Emerson he, said, no my Name's. EVERSON i, said, oh
they got it wrong on the flip. Card, okay so
this is the kid who's going to be first Team
All pro corner this. Year, Okay and that's how far
he had to come and. Became not That i'm ever
friends with, players but BUT i knew him very, well
and he's a really good guy to. Keep to leave

(01:23:59):
my guy on A Marina gridirn. Knows his nickname Is Kubby,
walls and he made an element sque, career you, know
coming from quote unquote nowhere and won A Super bowl
with The. Giants but but to watch his rise that
year From Emerson walls to first Team All pro eleven,

(01:24:21):
interceptions it's. Impossible so that's that was A cowboys storybook.
Story and that was the best part of going to
him after games because his whoever he's covering would get
like ten targets a. Game, yeah they're getting because they're
they're going to get that kid who ran four.

Speaker 6 (01:24:37):
Eight, wow you mentioned you mentioned his two picks in this.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Game he also had a funboard.

Speaker 3 (01:24:43):
Covery there you, go.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
Man so that's three of their six Turnal all, right
let's let's let's.

Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
Grade let's do. It WE i, mean this game only
has one. Name we usually give everyone an, option a
bunch of. Options this is the catch. Game, okay there's nothing.
Else score the. Game is this the greatest game of all?
Time let's score? It Skip we we always we always
encourage our guests to use. DECIMALS i don't, know it's
just part of the grading system and it's better for

(01:25:11):
the algorithm stakes of this organizational transferring of. DYNASTIES Nfc. Championship,
okay what's your scale that you're zero to ten decimals
encouraged state ten being a Mill it's it's the most.

Speaker 3 (01:25:32):
Important this is a.

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
Ten this is. Ten, yes this is not a Super,
bowl not a Super bowl.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
Scale, okay that's, fair that's.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
Fair but a right.

Speaker 3 (01:25:43):
Nasty it's it's.

Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
LEGACIES i mean legacies forty five years away from this
thing and we're still talking About that's how big it
is important game the history of.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
Argument it's not a Super, bowl but but it was
the Super.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
Bowl remember the Super. Bowl just remember when played The.
Patriots that was the Super? Bowl you, know you know
sometimes some years like. That so we have done this
game before With Chris. Berman so there's a. Score you
already done your. Score if you want to say what
you want to change to, STAY i gotta. Stayed say it?
Back did nine? SEVEN i had a nine point. Three
Chris berman had a ten as. Well, okay star power

(01:26:22):
of this, game you're at a ten decimal's, GURGE.

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
I would say off in coaches in the.

Speaker 1 (01:26:30):
Building Tom brady's there as a four year, Old Chris berman's, There.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
Danny white not a big, Star walls all pro, There,
Bro i'm a point to give the star power an
eight point. Five i'll tell you WHAT i.

Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
REMEMBER I i.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
Covered A Super bowl thirteen Between dallas And pittsburgh that
would have been two seasons, before and it was the
greatest collection Of hall Of fame talent on one field in its,
prime in its, PRIME i ever saw those two, Teams Dallas.
Pittsburgh go back and look at The hall of famers

(01:27:12):
on The steelers and The. Cowboys so compared to IF
i compare this to, that this is an eight point.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Five i'm with, You, SKIP i, mean you bring the.
Prep you executed that one right. Right the gameplay on
this game six TURNOVERS i went nine zero zero as,
well six christ nine point. Two the gameplay of this.
Game six turnovers for The, niners they tried to give

(01:27:39):
it away to The. Cowboys three for The. COWBOYS i
mean we got picks left and, right the block was
there a block? Kick? No there wasn't an. No but the,
game this, GAME i mean it. Was it brought the
stadium down at the. End zero to ten decimals.

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
Encouraged i'm going to give it a five point.

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
Zero, now what's the explanation on that? Skip nine?

Speaker 2 (01:28:09):
Turnovers an uncalled horse caller because there's no penalty four
horse caller.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
Skip we can't get mad at the penalties that weren't invented.
Yet we wasn't invented for another forty. Years.

Speaker 3 (01:28:24):
Five, WELL i went to. Ten SO i got, it, like.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
That's, RIGHT i GOT i gave it an eight. FOUR
i went nine. One Chris berman went eight point. One,
okay the name of the, game the, catch the significance
that everyone knows about this specific, game for this specific,
name the cultural, relevance the name of the. Game zero
ten decimals.

Speaker 3 (01:28:48):
Encouraged it's an eleven. Eleven we can't do.

Speaker 1 (01:28:52):
It we can break the. RICORDS i went nine to.
ONE i went nine to. SEVEN i went nine point,
nine And chris went also. Ten where does it?

Speaker 4 (01:28:59):
Go is?

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
It?

Speaker 1 (01:29:00):
So this this game is already real high?

Speaker 6 (01:29:02):
Up it was it's a nine point one. One it
is it dropped a little bit right? Now it was
our fourth it's. DROPPING i agree with skips grading. More,
yeah it's dropping down to our new eighth. Overall just
ahead of the nineteen ninety Three conference Finals kings Versus
Maple leafs too. High we just did the game and

(01:29:23):
the twenty Sixteen World Series game Seven cubs Versus indian.

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
Give Seven World series and such a crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:29:30):
Rota you see the catch, EVERYONE i don't care where
you are on this.

Speaker 1 (01:29:33):
Earth you know that play in that. Game BUT i.
Digress what do you think about the? List? Skip what's too?
High what's too? Low from just top twenty? Five would you?

Speaker 3 (01:29:44):
Believe quick story number?

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
SIX i was at the miracle on ice game whoa
whoa by by accident Because i'm covering The Lake Placid
Winter olympics nineteen eighty or The dallas what was it?

Speaker 3 (01:30:00):
Else morning? News and.

Speaker 2 (01:30:03):
We get to the Final friday night of the fortnight
of the two, weeks And i'm, THINKING i got.

Speaker 3 (01:30:10):
Nothing what AM i gonna ride about?

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
Today AND i go up and ask the press liaison mid,
afternoon do you have any tickets for the hockey game?
Tonight BECAUSE i Remember russia and THE us had played
an exhibition At Madison Square garden like a week two
weeks before.

Speaker 1 (01:30:26):
In Russia Bloom.

Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
Mountain it was like ten to two and everybody thought
it was going to be ten to. Two AND i
asked the press. Liaison he, SAID i got nothing but.
Tickets you want. ONE i, said, Yeah i'll take, one
and so he's just like giving. Away AND i happened
to be sitting next to an old friend of mine
from The Buffalo news Named Larry, felser who was a hockey,

(01:30:48):
guy AND i was. NOT i didn't grow up with,
hockey SO i didn't know it very, well if at.
All so he talked me through the game AND i
was at, brinkside you, know LIKE i was.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
There how electric was that after they?

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
Won, okay remember it's in this tiny little arena that
HOLDS i don't, know five thousand, maybe and it's on tape.

Speaker 3 (01:31:09):
Delay it's it's not LIVE.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
Tv so Al michael's call wasn't heard By america until
very late at night BECAUSE i don't think the game,
started wasn't played until eleven Thirty eastern.

Speaker 1 (01:31:22):
Times it's, crazy that's.

Speaker 2 (01:31:24):
Crazy, Yeah and it was This it was the Semi.
Fi it wasn't the championship The Gold gold. Game, yeah so,
anyway But i'm glad you have that up. THERE i
got you know, WHAT i got no issues with your.
LIST i Just i've told you. This that Your Super,
Bowl i'm, sorry Super blood Wolf moon game to, me

(01:31:48):
just to my, eye as great as twenty eight to three,
was the one that got? Me was was that? One
because nobody converts three straight third and.

Speaker 3 (01:32:01):
Tens you just. Don't it's.

Speaker 2 (01:32:03):
Impossible the odds are billions to one that you're gonna.
Have you're gonna face three straight third and tens and
convert all.

Speaker 3 (01:32:10):
Three you, know AND i know.

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
In a couple of billions to one.

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
Too, OKAY i got.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
It but it was like slow but, Sure like WHEN
i watched it after a, While i'm, like.

Speaker 3 (01:32:21):
This is gonna, happen right because you just you got.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
Them you turn them back into The Atlanta, falcons you,
know like YOU i could just see in your body.

Speaker 3 (01:32:30):
LANGUAGE i know you had to make the.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
Catch if that was a, catch didn't didn't end the,
game but it saved The you can argue it won the.

Speaker 3 (01:32:39):
Game, right it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
Was this is only a second.

Speaker 2 (01:32:42):
Down, yeah, okay a second, down but for you to
catch two of the three balls in overtime in the
cold at, ins it's. Impossible and and to just to
execute three straight plays where where you're going to, WELL
i guess it was you were did you have single?

Speaker 3 (01:33:02):
COVERAGE i assume they were.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
Trying what they were doing Was sorenson they were they
were dropping them in the middle of the, field and
so of COURSE i was hitting these. Crosses we'd run
something on the, outside and then we finally we would
put rob on the. Outside and if we Thought sorenson
was going to come to, Me tom gave him a,
two which is a slant hit him so he could
pop right behind. Him and so if you watch all,

(01:33:25):
GAME i was running that, thing and they KNEW i
was running, It so like the depth of my route
would have to get like a little shorter BECAUSE i
had to get in front of that rat player or
that thief For robber. Exactly and so like it was
one of those things where Like i'm trying to get
open and, quick AND i knew there was. SPACE i
Knew tom was going to bang it to me BECAUSE

(01:33:47):
i KNEW i was one of the first. Reads and
so it was just one of those.

Speaker 3 (01:33:50):
Things, yeah but you got to get to ten.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
Yards you still got to get to ten you get to.
It and the one time he didn't throw to, Me
sorenson was. There but it was just like every. Time
it was like ball, hit ball, hit, like get. Open
IF i see any, space you obviously know in your
head as a, player especially you know with us where

(01:34:12):
the first down marker. Was but it was it was
gnarly to. Me it was crazy because they knew it was.
Coming we just dulled it up a little differently each
tit you.

Speaker 3 (01:34:20):
Did sowornson hit you both.

Speaker 1 (01:34:22):
Times soorsen hit me. Once another time he came, DOWN
i made him, miss and then another guy came in
and got. Me you, KNOW i haven't watched it in
a long.

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
Time but, Okay so when the ball is in the,
air do you have any thoughts in your, brain BECAUSE
i know how my brain would. Work my brain would be,
screaming don't drop.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
This, no my brain was, screaming LIKE i think on
one of them or two of. Them you're kind of
like when you're getting, open you're peeking at that, area
and so if you see that he's going to be,
There i'm sitting, There brace, up get, ready you're gonna
have to take a.

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
Hit, Okay and you didn't think about drop ball gott Ituch.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
And especially with that's that game with the Whole did
he touch? It did he not? Think? NO i think
YOU'RE i wasn't thinking about that at. ALL i was, thinking,
like we got to go win, this.

Speaker 3 (01:35:12):
Okay because if you don't catch, it you.

Speaker 1 (01:35:15):
Lose we, do, okay in, hindsight you could say, that
but and it's one of those things we're going to your.
Point through our, preparation the practice execution became the game.
Reality and that's one of the things That belichick did very.
Well he made practice so. Hard he would, have you,

(01:35:38):
know he would make the defense of if the DB's were,
good at the line of, scrimmage he'd have the guys
lineup off sides two inches from your. Face he'd tell
him to grab like he would tell him to do.
This he would have you, know the guys at the
line of scrimmage trying to bat the the passes down
because we knew we had, to you, know go across

(01:35:59):
the middle a. Bunch like we made all these situations
so hard that like we got so, mad and we
got so mad about it that we wanted to beat
it so much in. Practice by the time we got
to the, game you've got a regular. Look you're, like,
fuck this is. Easy we've been doing it all week
exactly just like.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
You that's part Of belichick's genius that THAT i don't
fully appreciate because that's what you experienced and you knew
THAT i wouldn't. That that's intense preparation we.

Speaker 1 (01:36:32):
HAD i think that's. That that is the theme of
why our teams were our teams was the. Preparation and
it wasn't just. Practice it was being a. Tentative in
the meeting, rooms we had the craziest. Walkthroughs so you
go from you, know installs to walk through of everything
you just, installed to putting your your pads on and

(01:36:56):
then go walking through it. Again it's getting the athlete
the muscle, memory because if you can take the thinking
away from the, athlete that allows Him.

Speaker 2 (01:37:06):
Bengo you Took he took your thinking away because it's
all muscle, memory and and your your muscles are tired
in a good, way but but they're they're so practiced
that that now it's all instinctive on your. Part it's
just you just react to the situation and in your

(01:37:28):
mind you feel Like i'm more prepared than any of
these people around.

Speaker 3 (01:37:32):
Me are, right these?

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
Defenders, maybe but it As scott, O'Brien A Special team's,
genius used to, say it's like deja. Vu it's like
deja vu once you do it, Again Scott, Scottio, nah
that was, Awesome, skip way to. Go did we miss
anything from this?

Speaker 3 (01:37:52):
GAME i think you heard too.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
Much. Awesome everyone's gonna. LOVE i, mean people love this. Game.

Speaker 3 (01:38:00):
Now you make ME i need to go get a
copy of it and just sit down and watch it.

Speaker 1 (01:38:03):
Again definitely watched. It worth. It it is definitely worth
worth it. Everyone thanks To, Skip thank you so much
for coming. On go check out the arena Grid. Iron
he's got the basketball what is the basketball? Arena Gill's?
Arena and then the arena Grid iron with the football,
guys great. Content you got great guys on there that

(01:38:25):
are given great player. Perspective then you got The King
debater in there that brings in all the. Heat maybe
he puts these guys in their place because you, know
you can't go half assid With. Skip AND i tell
you sometimes these, guys these ballplayers think they could just
get off the knowledge of no one. Playing now you
got to you gotta bring in the homework and you.

Speaker 3 (01:38:45):
Were prepared for this.

Speaker 1 (01:38:47):
Show thank. You, thanks appreciate, That, SKIP i appreciate, it,
Man thank you so. Much, joy thank you. Man i'm
feeling a little. THIRSTY i feel LIKE i need to.
Rehydrate oh snappling of? That oh stab looking at. That
oh that's three nice THREE. O my favorite, though it's

(01:39:09):
my favorite, one the sugar Free Ring Pop. Classic so
drink up and lock in because it's time for everyone's favorite.
Game do you Know? Ball the game where we answer
football questions so thought. Provoking you'll need a liquid ivy

(01:39:32):
at the. End let's get into. It you Know.

Speaker 4 (01:39:35):
Ball you're ready for question number? One i'm ready for question?
One question number? One WHICH nfl?

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
Player you see this beautiful blue bottle though having a
perfect amount of water IT i like that very, agrippable very.
Noble and it's. Metal it's. Metal so we're like that,
reusable reusable looks? Great how's?

Speaker 2 (01:39:57):
It?

Speaker 1 (01:39:57):
Si oh my, gosh and it keeps it nice and
chili walking shout Out liquid Iv we'll be right back
after this quick. Break all, right what do.

Speaker 4 (01:40:06):
We got first question is WHICH nfl player will have
a breakout season this?

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
Year who are you? THINKING i Think Kyler. Murray like
that in The New, HOME i Think Kyler. MURRAY i
mean he's going To minnesota With Justin, jefferson Who's. Jetta
he's like a bunch of potential energy waiting to drump
over into that kinetic. Energy you, know you just balled,

(01:40:32):
up waiting to blow up another crazy. Season and then
you Have, addison you got a really good tight, end
you got running, backs you Got kevin O'Connell qub, WHISPERER qb.
WHISPER i think this is gonna be the best we've
Seen Kyler murray. Play And Kyler, MURRAY i mean what
four or five years, ago four years ago WHEN i
first got INTO, tv brought a team to seven and

(01:40:54):
zero Eight no or something With Arizona Cliff. Kingsbury ANOTHER
qb Was. Burke SO i think he's gonna HAVE i
think he's gonna have one of, those you, know the
new the new age quarterback that leaves the, team The
sammy d The, baker whatever you want to call.

Speaker 4 (01:41:10):
IT i think he could be the next. ONE i
like that little change of scenery might be. Good, yeah
ready for the next.

Speaker 1 (01:41:16):
One next? One? Uh name a deep CUT nfl? Player
what does that? Mean?

Speaker 4 (01:41:23):
Random sometimes a real deep cut, player real deep Clut
And OH i like.

Speaker 1 (01:41:31):
THAT i don't know. WHY i like. That we got
in a. Fight we used to fight all the. Time
THAT'S i love. This SOMETIMES i think Of.

Speaker 4 (01:41:44):
Tim, biakabatuca remember, Him Tim, Biakabatuka michigan running Back Carolina.
PANTHERS a Little James aheadable great name, too.

Speaker 1 (01:41:52):
And he was a really played with us and then
BUT i remember him on The Raven. Ravens right who you?

Speaker 5 (01:41:59):
Got i'm gonna Go John. Runyon oh that's a football
player right. THERE i like, That jack all? Right next, Up?
Jules who is ONE nfl Player you wish you'd gotten
to play?

Speaker 1 (01:42:13):
With one? PLAYER i WISH i got to play. With
it would have been pretty cool catch him touchdowns From
Joe montana or you KNOW i would Have that would
have been pretty. Cool or you, KNOW i think you

(01:42:35):
get to play with someone you grew up, with and
him and his, prime me and my. Prime it would
have been. Fun that's Some Bay area connection right, There
jerry right next to? You oh my, god could you
imagine so. Fun oh, man can you give us an
example of your snap count when you were a? QUARTERBACK
i forget my snapcount in, college BUT i know what

(01:42:57):
the snap count. Is like WHAT i? CAUSE I i
everything THAT i learned At, kent like the protections WHEN
i was a. Quarterback the number system that we used
At kent was completely different than the number system that
we used At New. England so like a seventies protection
was was scat for me in, college and there was

(01:43:19):
some carryover where there was eighties and, eighties and, like
SO i get. Confused i'm a football, player BUT i
Heard brady's snap count so. Much and our snapcount usually
was white twenty white twenty set. Hut that would be
on one on two would be white twenty, white twenty
set hut. Hut and then you had we Had. Alpha

(01:43:41):
that was you know everyone wants to talk about quick.
Snap alpha was we got to play everything we want
to go Fast Alpha alpha blue. Go if dog dog
was you know you could dog dog blue. Go so
there's there's a bunch black eighty.

Speaker 3 (01:43:55):
Eight fack.

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
IT i like. That that was that was three no
twenty way check easy check. Easy that's me right, There
i'm calling it. Audible you gotta check it easy for the,
lineman check, easy check easy hey hey Gold gucci, Gold
Gucci mike, Right mike, right how fuck go there it?

(01:44:19):
Is babe's how you would do it if you were checking,
it if you were if you maybe you had a
molasses molasses there was there's no, play so we could
say as much as we, want you can go white
twenty house fuck go white twenty, Hey mike, right, hey
hey white white. Right you can do whatever you want
until you call to. Play and then you had a
hot color that we would change say ours, was you

(01:44:42):
know for the week would be, gold so you could
have something you couldn't go unless you hurt, gold so
you'd be like white twenty ease AT i and you
do that to try to get the defense to, jump
and then you go all, right, hey, Hey tom will
give me a little something. Gold hey he. Didiot we

(01:45:02):
also used to have a Green bay. Cadence we called
it Green bay Because Aaron rodgers was elite at getting
guys to jump while and then also snapping the. Ball
so we used to have Green bay where we we
we could only we could whenever he could do whatever

(01:45:26):
he want yellow was like the live. Color and then
we were if if we got someone to, jump we
told the center to snap to try to do The
Aaron rodgers and everyone turns into all go so like there.
Was the cadence is such a huge. Thing it's been
really fun to Watch John gruden's coach thing where he's
got all these quarterbacks and he brings them in and

(01:45:48):
a lot of these kids are doing the clap and
it's used as a tool in THE, nfl you know
WHAT i. Mean that's how you can get pre snap.
Pictures you can you can see what they're. Doing you
can you can get your give your linemen a, jump you,
know because these guys are all the best dudes in
the league that you're going against after you just did. Yours.

Speaker 4 (01:46:07):
THERE i, think somewhere on this, Earth John gruden is.
Smiling he's smiling somewhere right out of.

Speaker 1 (01:46:11):
Here get it out white twenty right. There tom's was always.
White he was white twenty you, Know Like Linda, linda
that was. Protection Linda Linda elle left sliding. Them, Ronda

(01:46:31):
Ronda linda was Because rondo was a. Screen LIKE i
get so disappointed in my memory SOMETIMES i gotta go
back and any GREAT i want to go. Back and
that's WHY i like going back to The patriots camp
sometimes and they let me sit in the meetings Because i'm,
like oh, shit, Yeah i'm getting like refreshed whenever you

(01:46:52):
get To that's why it's always for, me LIKE i
like to visit camps because if you don't use, it
you lose. It and, Like i'm not sitting here talking
ball with people that always know like the ball that we.
Played but when you, GO i me injac don't a
ball like. That you guys don't know The intrica season,
language just LIKE i don't know the art of of
courting and shit like you. Guys there's a balance to

(01:47:14):
it directing thing that's, right but the art of making,
SHIT i love. It, Uh last, one we got to
wrap up all?

Speaker 4 (01:47:20):
Right last, One, Jules as a ball, noer what is
the biggest mistake you SEE nfl coaches making these?

Speaker 1 (01:47:29):
Days it just drives you up a wall going going
forward on? Fourth, yep so. MUCH i know the game has,
changed but you know there's so many times where we
hear during the. Game you, know you got some announcer
someone's gonna, say, oh you, know the coach said we

(01:47:49):
need to go for it on fourth down because we
needed to score. Points and then the game turns out
to be like eighteen to sixteen or. Fifteen you, know
it's like some, weird non crazy scoring, game you know
WHAT i. MEAN i think there's such a premium on
possession and and and and field. Position as a former
special teams, guy you, KNOW i think playing the game that.

(01:48:14):
Way everyone says the games evolved all the what is
it called the genet? Analytics? Analytics, Like I'm i'm what
what analytics can't tell you is you know how your
team feels if you get, stuffed how the defense feels
when they got to come on the field. Again you,
know like the flow of the. Game SO i think

(01:48:35):
the going forward on fourth down you have to do it, sometimes,
RIGHT i, mean there's some guys going out. There this
is like WHEN i used to Play madden in NINETY
i think these guys are my, age and these motherfuckers
all these coaches used to play so Much madden and
no one went punted On. Mad that's what we're going for.

(01:48:58):
DOWN i, mean everyone's Playing madden right. NOW. Mcdc i'm
looking at, you, Brother i'm not Saying i'm not saying.
It i'm just, saying let's me. Thirsty, Yeah i'm. Thirsty after, That,
MAN i get tired after, That i'm. Thirsty good. Thing
this is at the end of the. Episode, man Now i'm.

(01:49:21):
Hydrated it. Is and that was another edition of Do
You Know, ball presented By liquid Iv Get. Hydrated what
a game and thanks again to old skip bay. List
that's been another episode Of games With. Names subscribe On Apple, Podcasts,
spotify or wherever you listen to your. Podcast comment a
game you want us to do and remember great and.

(01:49:42):
Review leave us a five star review On spotify while you're.
There remember to Follow games With names on, YouTube, instagram x, TikTok,
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Episodes we'll read the best ones on future. Episodes leave
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two four two nine one two two nine zero and

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Skip Bayless on The Catch | Cowboys vs. 49ers

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Host

Julian Edelman

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Skip Bayless on The Catch | Cowboys vs. 49ers