June 15, 2026 • 43 mins
A gay hockey romance was supposed to be niche. Instead "Heated Rivalry" sold out romance shelves, spiked ticket sales, and pulled in audiences the NHL had spent years chasing. So what actually happened and why did it land now, in the most cautious year for brands in a decade? Gayle and Daryl get the inside story from NHL CMO Heidi Browning and McCann's Chief Entertainment Officer Brendan Gaul: how a love story once dismissed as too small became the cultural moment every marketer wishes they'd seen coming.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Gail Troberman.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Darryl Lee. And this is gay I.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Because all marketing is definitely not.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Created equal, So Darryl is we were considering all the
possible names for this amazing new podcast, we call gay I.
I just don't want to mislead people. Is this a
show about AI?
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Know, Gail, this has nothing to do with AI except
if our technology is moving forward, which it clearly is,
and our culture is moving backwards, which you and I
both see, then.
Speaker 5 (00:36):
We're going to be in a world of Payton because
the wrong people are going to use this tech for
the wrong reason. So indirectly we'll be talking about AI,
but mostly just the.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Gay Yes, I like to say, it's a show about
what's gay and interesting and what do we see with
our gay eyes? Talking about that's the eye interesting? And
I'd like to say, if you make the yet another
conversation about just AI, we're probably gonna buzz.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
You, definitely.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
And also we won't go there right because some of
the most interesting things are happening in culture right now
that maybe AI will track but won't create.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
But we need to talk about who's creating culture. Oh,
by the way, spoiler alert that's.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
The gays, and it's definitely the humans.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, well yes, it can't be
dating and it'll be human awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
So Gay I it's all about what's gay, what's interesting,
what's timely, what's important to be talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It's not another AI show.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Hell no, we would be remiss this year if we
were doing a show called Gay I. That's all about
what's breaking through in culture in the gay community, and
we didn't start with the biggest gay show of the year,
changing the game in so many ways. This episode is
going to be all about the phenomenon that is Heated Rivalry.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
The enduring phenomenon, right, the phenomenon that just keeps on
growing and caught us all unawares, even the gays. I
am super excited for it to be our first episode.
I think we're going to learn how brands can capture
the spirit of being joyful and gay in culture and
(02:23):
not do it in an inauthentic way. You know, the
thing about Heated rival which I love is that it's real.
I mean, yes, it's a romance, but romance is real.
There's a struggle and it's a context which you wouldn't
expect the story in and they don't downplay the context
and they don't over romanticize it as you know, a
place which would be easy to be gay. I think
(02:44):
there's so much to learn from it, apart from it
just being gorgeous to watch, and they're obviously gorgeous, all
of them. But I think it's all going to be
a great thing to talk to brands and go, there's
bravery here, and you see how it gets rewarded.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
When we started talking about this show back, you know,
eight nine, ten months months ago, even then, if you'd said, oh, yeah,
you're going to do a show called Gay I about
you know, gays and marketing and culture, and your first
episode is going to be about a hockey romance show
on HBO.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Like no, no, that wasn't a thing.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And now it seems so obvious and so normal that
there would be this beautiful gay romance show on gay
I so, Daryl, who should we talk to to learn
more about why he did Rivalries a phenomenon that it is.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Because it's great entertainment storytelling. I go to one of
the great entertainment storytellers that I know, who's Brendan Gole,
Global Chief Entertainment officer of McCann and somebody who has
worked closely with brands to create this kind of entertainment
storytelling across streaming and digital. And also he happens to
be a gay, so he's welcome on the show, as
(03:52):
are all people, but be like the gays.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
And I agree, I think Brendan has always been one
of those people who's had the gay I right, So
Brendan is going to be a phenomenal guest to help
us deconstruct heated rivalry. And then we'd be remiss if
we didn't get a point of view from the person
sitting at the helm of marketing for the NHL.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
The nl has.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Seen an amazing impact for oh jaman On that is
putting hockey top of mind for so many new consumers.
So I couldn't be more excited to have Heidi Browning,
who I think is just one of the most phenomenal marketers.
And we talk about bringing positivity and joy to every
project and every platform and every team and every campaign
(04:32):
she's ever worked on.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Heidi is just always the.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Queen of inclusivity and listening and embracing new ideas, and
it's going to be exciting to hear more about how
the NHL has been riding this wave and this rocket show.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Yeah, because your can control culture. That's the one thing
that all these big politicians and big leaders of our
time don't understand, which is you can try, but culture wins.
So I think the thing about Heidi as well that'd
be great is both the marketing savvy but also the
media savvy around when you capture a cultural phenomenon, how
(05:08):
do you, as the NHL, become a brand that has
a real point of view around what's happening something you
didn't predict and something you know that could turn against you.
How do we help brands also find their heated rivalry moments?
And then also maybe some brands could be involved in
Heated and Rivalry Season two.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 5 (05:27):
Let's start talking about Heated Rivalry.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I'm excited to have an incredible friend and powerhouse in
media and marketing and creative storytelling, the incredible Brending gall
What is going on with this phenomenon that is the
Heated Rivalry series this year?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Gil, thank you so much for having me and congrats
on this.
Speaker 6 (05:57):
I think that it's more important than ever for brands
to be really focused on figuring out how they drive
cultural relevance and making a splash like perhaps heated rivalry, which,
oh my gosh, is there anything bigger happening in the
world right now that's not related to politics?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I should say that's fun and positive.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, a small indie film out of Canada, right, it's
spiked hockey ticket sales, it sold out romance bookshelves right
at an exact moment in our industry. I think when
Hollywood and Madison Avenue at the same time, we're sort
of backing away from all things LGBTQ in this macro
(06:37):
political climate, what does that actually say about the moment
we're in with the real fans and real viewers and
real people right our Hollywood Madison Avenue out of touch
with where the real zeitgeist is. Did this series just
somehow tap a nerve or is it just really the
(06:58):
right thing at the right moment and we needed joy?
Speaker 7 (07:01):
Wow?
Speaker 6 (07:02):
I think yes, I think we did need joy right
and I think so. I think that it satisfies that need,
like an unmet need that we all have right now,
of being able to escape into a story that is
going to keep you hooked and be joyful. But there
are lots of stories out there, right, it's like why
this one. And to your specific question around if Hollywood
(07:22):
and Madison Avenu are out of touch, I think that
we've gotten to a place where it's almost like a
factory in what we're doing in both entertainment and advertising,
and often it's not about trusting and supporting the creatives, right,
And this feels like a moment where because it was Crave,
(07:48):
a smaller local Canadian player, they had their trust in
Jacob Tierney, the creator, and then he allowed those actors
to really you have these incredible performances, right. It was
almost like everything was the way it's supposed to be.
But at the same time, you've got a bit of
(08:08):
the fairy tale ending, right, at least in season one.
The fact that Ilia shows up for him in that
coming out moment kind of the older tropes of the
way the gay community has been portrayed there. He may
have not shown up for him in that way. Yeah,
his parents may not have accepted him in that way.
I think the other thing that is a big kind
(08:32):
of step forward is the fact that while Ilia is
more assertive and aggressive on the personal side of it,
that Shane actually is the stronger athlete. Right that the
more submissive one in the relationship is able to be
the one that has slightly stronger athleticism on the ice.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Let's be clear.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
Yeah, we all have masculine and feminine. Then we dial
them up and down based on situation. If we had
to say something bad about the series, because I like
looking for the this is a critical eye. If we
have to find something bad, is it? I love that
it opens up new imagination, but I want that imagination
to become real. Only storytelling is helpful keeps hope alive.
(09:18):
If hope could be real? Did they allied some of
the erased some of the concerns about will I be
a successful hockey player while I make money when I
get sponsorships? Well, Rolex and Shane has all those sponsorships,
and I'm like, I want to see it season two
because I want to know does Rolex stay with him?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Does Adidas stay with him?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
True?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I think is.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Relevant to our business as well, right, which is, yeah,
you can live your truth, but does it mean giving
up your livelihood?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I know.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
There is a lot of debate online about Canada Dry
too in that it's featured so heavily in the show,
and it was such a perfect branded moment. It was
not in partnership with them, It was just part of
the narrative, I believe, And it took a while for
and to try to actually pop into the social conversation.
And there's a lot of debate about whether that was
a good or bad thing. Did they miss their moment
(10:07):
to participate? And I think you're right they kind of
left off. Season two will be what happens next. But
what do you think about brands in this moment? Do
you think this show is going to actually change? I
know we've seen a lot of brands back off over
LGBTQ marketing kind of put the rainbows back in the
closet for a minute. In a tense cancel culture and
(10:28):
a risky climate. Do you think this show will have
a positive impact on brands? Pocky is having a moment
and I was trying to think about why, you know,
why in this moment did this show break as big
as it did, And I think it had just had
a lot of fresh things working for it.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
The similarity with the story is great because in terms
of mass culture and brands need to understand that which
is stop clustering around all the big things that everyone
else is doing. Find something undiscovered in the world, bring
that to people.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
I would also say, your point of view is very
much not Canadian.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
No, it's right.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Remember like this is a Canadian show, it's a national sport.
So I also think that we've seen so many imports,
be it squid games or any other kind of outside
US hit that than is coming in. I think this
one feels more easy to understand because it's in English,
because there are parts of it that take place in
(11:26):
the US. But it goes back to that truth of
this being a real Canadian show set in the most
meaningful of arenas, and the rest of the world embracing
and accepting it because it's universal.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
It's by design, right, there's a Russian player, there's busts
and bruins. I think it's also like, if we're going
to get fine listens for brands, it's like, fine specific
things about yourself that are discoverable, but make them universal,
make them true, and tell the truth. Like I'm I
think that could be a lesson in all these episodes.
Tell the truthful people. We'll find out exactly.
Speaker 6 (12:02):
That's the thing. There's so much joy in watching it
in the ups and downs. It's a wild ride, and
it certainly brought a lot of people together at a
time where I think we all could use something to
fan boy and girl about.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Is that why you think it's been so popular, Brendan,
that it's about joy?
Speaker 8 (12:20):
No.
Speaker 6 (12:20):
I think that it's popular because there's so much truth
in it. I think that often shows and films that
are out in the world are over noted and over
noted by these giant studios, and they're made almost for.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
The lowest common denominator.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
That it's about, like, how do we make something that
everyone can see themselves in or accept to watch. But
if you'd spread the peanut butter too thin, you don't
really say anything. You need to get to a very
specific story where people can understand the struggle and the
arc of what you're telling and bring people on the journey.
(13:00):
I think that's what we have here. It is a
love story with drama. It is a story about athleticism.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
We're not going to give you the standard rom com.
We're also not going to give you the genre of
a thousand gay stories that end in tragedy, because those
are the two conventions we're going to give you something
that's the kind of new truth, but it's going to
be We trust you as an audience to hold us
(13:27):
accountable and to not watch it if it starts getting inauthentic.
I was amazed they did that. When I first watched
the first episode, I was like, Oh, they're going to
show the shower scene, which is not like, which is awkward?
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah, and the awkward conversations and yeah, because it is.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's awkward, like life is awkward.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I was going back and looking at what were the
breakout like LGBTQ focus hits of our lifetime, right and
the Brokeback Mountains to their Rocket Mountains and bohemies yep,
pre Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
They're solving I was sobbing it.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Stories and heart wrenching, important stories to be told. But
what I loved about this is it really reflected like
our lives as gay people, right.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
It reflected like the simple.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Conversations, the hard moment where you had to admit things
or share things or come out or They did such
a beautiful job showing the stress and the fear and
then the simplicity of those moments when people go oh, yeah,
you know, and they really normalized so many things that
I think we just have not seen in a lot
(14:33):
of gay Hollywood or gay media, and just simple human truths,
which always makes for great storytelling.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It is a.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
Story about rivalry, and it's a story about finding one's
place in the world where they think they may not
have one. And I think those themes are very universal
and people can relate to them in their own world
and lives, even if they aren't gay, or they aren't
an athlete, or they aren't Canadian.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
You know, Heidi, we definitely want to hear how heated
rivalry is affecting hockey. And you are the person sitting
at the helm of marketing for the NHL, so I
don't think anyone's better situated to actually.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Let us know, like, basically, how did this go?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I mean this was perhaps heated rivalry was the most
unexpected marketing win for hockey. The question here is like,
how did a proudly overtly gay hockey romance managed to
grow streaming minutes ten x right breaking records. It's a
baby reindeer like phenomenon, like a show that just kind
(15:45):
of came out of the closet, so to speak, like
a rocket.
Speaker 9 (15:48):
I mean, it truly is a pop culture zeitgeist, and
it's put hockey on the map around the world, and
it's really the first pop culture moment that I've experienced
in my ten years at the league. For one thing,
it is being talked about in nearly every country in
the world, and over fifty percent of the conversation is
really coming and being driven from the US, which is
(16:09):
really great for us. And the overwhelming sentiment is positive.
We've tried to find any sort of negativity around it.
People when they talk about this show talk about it
not in just positivity, but in extreme positivity, which is
really nice to have that associated with our sport. We've
seen over twenty two million mentions around online about the series,
(16:31):
and then we've seen for NHL and Hockey a twenty
one percent lift in conversation around the globe. Most importantly,
ninety four percent of the users who were talking about
Heated Rivalry they're under the age of thirty five, and
that's a key target demographic for us. We're trying to
get younger, we're trying to get more female, more diverse,
and so Heated Rivalry has really brought all of this
(16:52):
together for us.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
The great thing about culture is the surprises it brings us, right,
which is why.
Speaker 7 (16:58):
Why does this even happening? And how exciting that it is, Daryl.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
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Speaker 9 (17:58):
So, of course we had to do some research to
learn more about these heated rival reviewers, who they are,
how is it impacting their perceptions of the league, of
the sport, and sort of you know, what is driving
them to enter the hockey pipeline. We found that sixty
two percent of the Heated Revel reviewers said that they
were more interested in hockey after watching the show, which is,
(18:19):
to your point, a gift to us. But when you
dig down into the audiences, there's only a nine percent
overlap between the heated rivalry viewers audience and our social
media followers, which that means these are net new audiences
to engage and bring into our sport. But it also
sparked a real interest in the NHL players. So we
(18:42):
saw our fans, you know, forty eight percent want to
know more about our players, both on and off the ice.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
It seems like you're navigating something and I'll say this
on Bob of the gay community, which is quite tricky,
which is how do you participate in a cultural moment
which is benefiting you, but also how do you show
to your point of respect and vulnerability. And hey, you know,
athletes are going to like the fact that there's now
a gay community following them as NHL players.
Speaker 9 (19:07):
I loved seeing these you know, hockey dude bros really
embrace the show and talk about it and talk about
how the entire ecosystem really is ready and willing and
open to having a gay player in the league. And
we've had a lot of players who talk about it.
Charlie McAvoy, who's on the Boston Bruins, and Bruins were
one of the first to you know, lean in on this,
(19:28):
but Charlie McAvoy said, you know, it's awesome for hockey,
it's awesome for everyone. And then Nick Suzuki, who's at
the Canadians, he said, and I want to read his
quote too because it's really important because I do think
it represents how we as a league feel. But he says,
as a team, I think we're well prepared to welcome
anyone that would come out. I think we're very open
group and we're always accepting of each other. That wouldn't
(19:51):
change if someone came out and was on our team
or another team. And we want this message to be
heard loud and clear because it is time. Our big
moment is our Stanley Cup playoffs, like we work our
whole season to this, you know, our Super Bowl or
the Stanley Cup playoffs. So we obviously asked these heated
rival reviewers if they were interested in watching the playoffs,
(20:11):
and more specifically, we ask people who didn't consider themselves
NHL fans at all, and forty one percent of them
said that now after seeing the show, they were interested
in watching our playoffs. And I might add that our
ratings are off the charts strong right now. We are
seeing double and triple digit lifts over last year. It's
incredible and we're only in the first round. We haven't
(20:32):
even gotten to the second round, so we can't directly
correlate it to heated rival reviewers. But because hockey is
part of just the culture and conversational zeitgeist, we think
that that's part of the momentum behind our ratings.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Okay, so the NHL is a brand making good work
out of this amazing cultural moment, but you know where
market is here as well as LGBTQ advocates and allies.
Do you think other brands can learn from how you've
reacted to this moment? Like, how would you advise brands
to think about a moment like this, which is hot
(21:06):
in good and bad ways, right, could be hot for
you and dangerous if you get it wrong.
Speaker 9 (21:12):
That is the nuance of this whole moment. While we
appreciate it and value it, we're also carefully thinking through
our participation in it, and it's caused us to hold
the mirror up to our own faces and talk about,
you know, what is the work that we're doing in
the community to show that we're authentically engaging. And that's
(21:32):
what I would say for any brand who wants to
get involved in it, whether it's this you know, heated rivalry,
cultural moment, or even just a TikTok trend, whatever you do,
you have to participate in an authentic manner because when
you jump in just for the sake of jump it in,
fans us that out right away and you can have
really negative backlash. And our teams and the league did
(21:53):
all kinds of like subtle nods to heated rivalry through
social media content and clever captions.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
We hosted playlists, lots of playlists, lots.
Speaker 9 (22:03):
Of playlists, and playing in the arenas. The sots of
the arenas, Montreal showed the trailer in the arena, which
I was like, that's spicy, but you know that was,
you know, another way to get the storylines and the
important conversations going. But for us, the most important part
is sparking the conversations about inclusivity in our sport. Hands down,
(22:25):
I was so surprised how many of the you know,
Hockey Dude podcasts were actually having genuine discussions in conversation
about it and to me. That was huge. This is
a huge shift in impact and culture because they weren't
making fun of it. They were actually talking about how
it must feel to walk in the shoes of Shane
and Ilia. You know, they talked about the loneliness that
(22:46):
Scott Hunter had, and you know, the fear that Shane
had when his dad saw and like, you know that
moment when his mom was like what could I have
done better? Like all those moments touched everyone and the
you know, the league is I.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Mean, so question for you is a brand's missing out
here because you're in it? I mean you have to
be in it. If you were a Coca Cola or
a or a Gillette or something, would you be Canada
das all the brands actually in the storyline?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, you know, I was wondering, like we've got season
two coming, like do you expect more brands are gonna
jump on the bandwagon or should they? Yeah, what would
your advice be? You kind of got put on the bandwagon?
Speaker 9 (23:25):
Yeah, I mean I think they should jump on if
it's a natural, authentic integration into the story and the storyline.
Speaker 6 (23:31):
I do think it'll have a positive impact on brands.
And I say that because of what I think we're
already seeing in the real world with the real actors, right, So,
I mean they certainly have been embraced by brands. I
do think that the taste makers are certainly accepting them
as actors. And there were a lot of brands in
(23:54):
the first season that were either just part of the storyline,
like Kind to Dry or Adidas, but there were some
placements as well that you know around the leaderboards around
the back of the hockey rink as an agency that
had placed Energizer back there, and I think Cheerio's and
a couple others. I think those all will become more
(24:15):
monetizable moments now that you've got HBO max in like
at the beginning, that they're now attached to season two
and three. I do believe that it will get into
the kind of system and machine that will find the
right brands to align with this show to not only
bolster budget, but also bring the right level of co
marketing that you would see, you know, from a show
(24:37):
that's bringing these kind of eyeballs.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
So Rolex was the I can't remember if he signed
the deal or that was looking to sign the deal
with Shane Hollander, right so Rolix was the That was
when he realized.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Momb realized this, He's.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Going to be big as a figure in culture. What
would you do if you were the Rolex brand manager
for season two? What would the Brendan brand entertainment guru?
He was a brand with heated rivalry.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Wow, I think there's so much that you could do.
Speaker 6 (25:08):
I think it would be really interesting to release the
advertising with Shane Hollander, not with Hudson Williams, but with
Shane Hollander. And you know, I think that there's this
really interesting play happening right now. I don't know if
you've seen any of the tourism stuff. They said the
proud birthplace of Shane Hollander, and then the other one
had said Hudson Williams the actor, and then Montreal came
(25:31):
in and said, but he plays hockey here, like the.
Speaker 9 (25:34):
Canada Dry was a perfect example of that. That put
Canada Dry back on the map again, which you know
you kind of forgot about, but then all of a
sudden it became. You know, their sales were up in
all these fun things. So I do think that, you know,
now's the time for any marketers who want to get
involved to talk with the show creators because they're in
the process of doing that. They're also you know, they
did this out of love and not on a very
(25:56):
high budget, which I'm sure they shared with you. It's
going to be a game changer and open intended for
their next season because they now have a much bigger
scope and i'm sure ability to integrate brands and to
drive revenue from the show. So again, this is our
moment to embrace, but we have to tread, you know,
(26:17):
mindfully and authentically to be a part of the movement.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I almost fear the idea of season two having a
Barbie like moment, right, so many brand integrations, so many
crazy fun ideas. I kind of hope that happens, but
it also could just get completely distracted by a whole
bunch of brand integrations and just marketers there for no reason.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, and I hope that doesn't happen.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
I hope they protect the creative and the creatives on it,
the show itself, right, because I mean, just the choice
in casting, right. Yes, they're both brilliant, but in our
world it would be very hard to get a show
moving with unknown actors like them attached, because either the
(27:04):
brand or the studio partner wouldn't take the leap right.
It's empowering artists to create art without all of the
layers of network and studio executive and formal integrations from
brands and you know, so it's almost like all of
the industry that we put on top of art sometimes
(27:27):
feels like it can smother it, whereas here it really
does feel like the creative talent working on the show
were actually empowered to bring their best creative work to it.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
We talk about this a lot, Brendan, I want to say,
not all unencumbered art is good, Like sometimes you let
the creatives go and they're arrogant and they don't do
something that also is important, which is to trust the audience.
The great thing I think about Heated Rivalry is that
it trusts sposed the creator, but also the audience. The
(28:00):
hockey was as real as you expect in like a
show about a romance. But I was really moved by
the story, and it's great that people are new, people
are coming in and in the US, where it is complicated,
Can we say that right now to talk about anything
that is not you know, mainstream masculine straight Because of
the situation we have for even in that context, we
(28:20):
would say, yeah, you know what, I came not wanting
to be a bit of a hater, but I kind
of got moved in that last episode and my mother
and I was like, yeah, the times when you know,
my mother didn't understand things I was doing. I was like,
what is going on? Something big and by the way,
something that all brands can participate it.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I mean so, but it.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
Reminds me, Gail a conversation we were having where brands
were fearful of jumping into the queer space in marketing
because they were afraid that they'd be judged harshly by
our own community if they didn't do it right.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
True, it didn't do it perfectly right, then that was
going to be the story.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
And who's to say that's the thing? Is like, you
put this monolith think view of our community, but it's
not the case. We are as wildly different as any
other community in the world. There's no way to be gay,
something I've always fought my whole life, and it's so true.
Some organizations who would let me join, they're like, you're
not gay enough. In the US, I remember, there's one
(29:18):
specific organization like you can't join.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You're not gay enough. I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 5 (29:23):
We are as complex and messy as anyone, but at least.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
People are talking about it. Yeah, and not avoiding it.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
It's so true.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
I think you're so right to give brands permission to
take risks. And you'll hit, and you'll miss and make mistakes.
It's all okay, and we'll move on to the next ad.
And in that kind of sameness that they've been driven to,
it is bold choices in stories that they're going to tell,
stories that they're going to align with, communities that they're
going to align with that work for their brand. That's
(29:54):
going to be the differentiator. We just need some brave
marketers to do.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
It truth well told.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
I just thought that the way that the characters and
the world was built so beautifully, and what Jacob Tierney
did in bringing together the exact right costume designer and
production designer and director of photography, like it all came
together and built a world that just felt true. It
just felt like a world that we knew. We felt
(30:23):
like we could walk into that apartment or buy a
ticket to go to that hockey game. And I think
that's one of the things that just makes it feel
so so comfortable. You know, you're seeing things that you
may not be used to seeing hot gay sex that
feels very real, and hard conversations that are moving the
(30:44):
story forward. But it's all in this container that just
feels warm and nutural.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I think you're so right.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
The art direction and the set design was so right
on because they moved from their gorgeous I have a
massive paycheck as a professional hockey player, gorgeous modern apartments,
the cottage all the way to you know, the crappy
hotel rooms they spend halfway year.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
They didn't really.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
That, you know, when they didn't try and like manipulate
with swelling music and like you know, they just let.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
It be, which which I so appreciate. Good art, good art.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
No, it's an incredible moment.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
More brands coming to the NHL also to ride this
new increased demand for and fandom around hockey.
Speaker 9 (31:27):
There's a lot of hockey curious curiosity happening out there.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
It's an undiscovered joy, right the NHL. Like it's not
a mainstream it's not NBA, it's not NFL.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
It's always been a little indie, right if you know,
you know, kind of thing. I would think a lot
of brands that wouldn't typically think, you know, they might
put hockey in the straight white guy bucket.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
We want to reach them, we sell these things to them.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
But now I would imagine you're getting interest from a
lot more brands that want to reach a much more
diverse demographic, you know, women and gays.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Younger, younger consumers.
Speaker 9 (32:02):
We've grown our youth fan base, our female fan base,
our diverse fan base double digits over the last year,
and that's really important to us. We're at forty percent
women is hockey fans across North America. It's even higher
in Canada, and when you look at youth hockey, girls,
youth hockey is the fastest growing sport of all and
(32:23):
that's been really exciting to see because you know, fandom
starts when you're a kid.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
I feel like the missing story that I'm getting my
head around. I'm happy to show my blind spots because
I think that's how we improve is. I think there's
a story about women's hockey that hasn't been told, that
it should be told pretty quickly. So Gail and I
will brainstorm with you. We'll have a creative storm with
you around, how we can tell that story and find
some brands who'd want to tell it, you know, some
women's empowerment brands, and some beauty brands and some sports brands.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
You hear it much more that women's hockey is becoming
a thing. I would also give massive credit to women's
sports and the LGBTQ community where they've come so far,
so fast in a very LGBTQ friendly way with the
WNBA the NWSL. I think it's really opened up people's
(33:14):
eyes to the ability for athletes to be whoever they are,
and as diverse as they are coming into mainstream you know,
sort of straight culture. There's got to be room for that.
Speaker 9 (33:25):
I guess it was right after the Olympics we hosted
what's called our Pride Cup, and this is our third
year of doing it. We do it in conjunction with
the NHLPA and with the You Can Play and this
we held this one in Vancouver, so just outside of Seattle.
It was actually Surrey, British Columbia, and we featured three
different hockey games featuring the Vancouver Cutting Edge and the
(33:48):
Seattle Pride Hockey Association. We had content creators like Cody
Rigsby and Brian Williamson there to like host the show
and talk about it, and we brought in coaching sessions
for the local youth hockey teams so that they can
really learn to expand their impact and you know, understand
how to create inclusive locker rooms at the youngest age,
(34:09):
because if you start at the youngest age, that's going
to carry with you all the way through to the NHL.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
I think for a lot of people, they probably didn't
realize you can't just show up for this minute because
there's this cultural phenomenon and then go away. I think
it's really interesting right now you have a platform to
talk about work you've been doing for decades, which wouldn't
be a conversation you'd probably be having on podcasts if
the show hadn't kind of put a spotlight on this
(34:35):
topic exactly.
Speaker 9 (34:36):
And our clubs are all investing in their own communities.
We've had over the course of the last couple of years,
all thirty two clubs having you know, Pride Nights, and
many of them do custom jerseys that they find queer
artists in the community, and then they'll do a whole
content series about who they are and how they came
to be and what their intersection is with exactly. The
(34:59):
Kraken are some of the best at it. In San
Jose Sharks too. So I recently went to the sellout
game at MSG. The PWHL sold out a game at
Madison Square Garden and it was the Seattle Torrent versus
the New York Sirens, and I could not believe the
atmosphere in that arena. It was, you know, a lot
(35:19):
of queer people, happy people, girls, a lot of dads
that and everyone watches women's sports and we had girl
dad hats on and it was incredible. And when they
went around and did the fan shots on the JumboTron,
you know, normally they just do the you know everyone
like dances or does something goofy. Well, at the PW game,
(35:40):
everyone turned it into a kiss him, a gay kiss him,
and everyone in the arena cheered as loudly for the
kisses as they did for the goals. I'm not kidding you.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
It was amazing.
Speaker 9 (35:52):
Yeah, it was so a lot of love.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Here's a brief for you, brands.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Here's your opportunity to really create culture and help the world.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Right, those are the things that I'm told drive growth.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yes, creating a little culture getting noticed in a massive way,
attaching to a massive property when the world is paying attention,
here's your opportunity.
Speaker 6 (36:14):
Right, But who's going to do it? Which brands do
we think? I'd say, maybe have the permission to, but
also would have the kind of guts to who's going
to be brave, who's going to put themselves out there?
You know, it's a huge opportunity. I think that marketers
and the conversations I'm having are more about a broader message.
(36:38):
And yes, it is an inclusive message, and the queer
community is a part of that. But I have seen
a turnaround of getting like we need a campaign or
a story that is going to target the LGBTQ demographic
as a target audience or as a consumer target. There
(37:00):
are even brands that are fifty percent use is among
the queer community, and it's it's like a let's do
it for everybody.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah, you were going to reach the gays.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
If we target everyone, they'll see our stuff through mass marketing.
Speaker 9 (37:18):
Right. It's wonderful to see women's sports having you know,
their moment as well, and I could not be happier
that hockey is enjoying it both, you know, because of
heated rivalry. But let's you know, not forget that both
the men's and women's team won the Olympic Golds.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
On the global stage.
Speaker 9 (37:34):
Mean incredible, and so we have to continue to ride
this you know, wave for as long as possible and
bring in as many new fans whatever pathway they choose
to come in to enjoy our sport.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
You've got everything colliding, you know, You've got this fabulous,
fast paced, like insanely athletic sport coming together with like
some of the best culture and filmmaking that we've seen
in the past year, and that it's hitting with diverse audiences,
and that you're open and welcoming everyone into this new
(38:06):
club that crosses these boundaries. It's really phenomenal thing to watch.
So just love it. Can't wait to see what comes.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yes, so many good things.
Speaker 9 (38:17):
Thank you so much. It's such a joy to speak
with you. I hope I see you irl one of
these days very soon.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yes, Daryl, we got to go to a game.
Speaker 9 (38:26):
Yeah, I'm in Okay, we'll find a game that's you
convenient for all of us.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
To get to some good heated rivalries and the Stanley
Cup playoffs.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
This was great. Thank you, Brendan.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
As always, I am smarter whenever I get a chance
to pick your brain on pretty much any topic.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Thanks so much, Gail. It's always great to be with you.
Speaker 10 (38:49):
So, Gail, we're gonna start a new segment with our
first podcast called I Spy with My gay IE, getting
views of people who seeing the world through the gay
I with a different perspective to us. I think you've
got somebody exciting who's going to kick us off for us.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yes, our first I Spy with My Gay I features
our good friend George Severs from Stradio Lab, an amazing
comedy podcast on iHeart. Check it out and let's hear
what George is spying with his gay I this week.
Speaker 8 (39:20):
Hi everyone, this is George Severs from Stradio Lab and
today I Spy with My Gay I believe it or not,
a different podcast. You know it's good if I am
promoting something that is not myself in the audio podcasting space.
I Spy with My Gay I a mini series that
the podcast Bansplain did that is all about Madonna and
(39:42):
Madonna's place in pop culture history, tracing her from her
birth to today. It is a series that is I
think in total over fifteen hours. There are four parts
and each of them is almost four hours long. It
is hosted by Yasi Salek and Bansplain in general is
sort of a music podcast that explores more like you know,
(40:05):
guitar based bands. It's very like Pearl Jam type thing,
and so it is very cool that Yasi decided to
devote sixteen hours of it for her. I'm going to
assume largely male audience to Madonna and sort of forcing,
you know, people that normally want to log in and
learn about the Strokes and Pearl Jam to really sit
(40:26):
with Madonna's cultural legacy. So there are so many sort
of fun facts that I learned along the way, even
as a Madonna fan myself, that I never knew. One
of my favorite fun facts is obviously a Ray of Light,
huge era for Madonna, one of my favorite albums, and
it is inspired by her newfound spirituality. It is inspired
by her experience with kabbala on one hand and of
(40:48):
course yoga on the other. And there's this one song,
sky Fits Heaven that I always thought was so you know,
personal to Madonna and inspired by her spiritual journey. And
I learned on the podcast. In fact, it is inspired
by a poem that she heard on a gap ad,
So that's just a nice It's important to remember that
you can get inspiration from anywhere, whether it's whether it's
(41:10):
the teachings of Kabbala or a gap ad in nineteen
ninety seven. Overall, just a really fun conversational series. And
even if you think you know a lot about Madonna,
there's more to learn. And so I thought it would
be a fun thing to shout out as we await
Madonna's big comeback with Confessions to this summer. So that
is my I spy with my gay eye for today, Dale.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
What's the takeaway? I mean, there's so many takeaways, all good.
What's you a big takeaway from this?
Speaker 3 (41:39):
I think the most inspiring thing about this conversation was
the most inspiring thing about watching Heated Rivalry is that
it put full frontal gay attitudes and culture and ideas
at the forefront, in the spotlight, in front of the camera,
and the entire world woke up and rallied around it.
(42:02):
So I just take away hope that more marketers, more brands,
more filmmakers and creatives can come together and create incredible
mind blowing art and culture that drives entertainment that makes
us all joyous and hopefully sell some products along the
way too.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
These are well told stories that I mean, yes you
said full frontal like bare butt naked. Beare butt naked stories,
but they're also stories like it's a lesson for all
of us as marketers.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
We just go find the stories.
Speaker 5 (42:35):
Don't do the cute symbols, don't do the shortcut.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Let's look at the stories behind people's lives. That's actually
where people are interested with.
Speaker 5 (42:45):
The magic happens where brands can participate and they can
tell stories. Brands can tell stories better than most entities
and culture.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
So tell the stories of the gays. We've got plenty
to tell.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Yes, we do no shortage of gay stories to tell.
Speaker 5 (42:59):
That's why gay IY is here and we'll be back
for another episode shortly.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Thanks for listening to gay I.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
Follow the show wherever you get to your podcasts, share
this episode with a marketer, founder, creative director, or just
a groove chat that needs a little more gay I.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
And we want to hear what you spy with your
gay I, so send us your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Let's keep the conversation going.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
You can follow US, bubbler Media on LinkedIn, iHeartMedia, YouTube,
or wherever you socialize.
Speaker 9 (43:32):
Gay I is a Bubbler Media iHeart podcast production.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
If you're not in the conversation, you're not in the game.
Speaker 7 (43:45):
Gay I
Hi, I'm Gail Troberman.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Darryl Lee. And this is gay I.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Because all marketing is definitely not.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Created equal, So Darryl is we were considering all the
possible names for this amazing new podcast, we call gay I.
I just don't want to mislead people. Is this a
show about AI?
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Know, Gail, this has nothing to do with AI except
if our technology is moving forward, which it clearly is,
and our culture is moving backwards, which you and I
both see, then.
Speaker 5 (00:36):
We're going to be in a world of Payton because
the wrong people are going to use this tech for
the wrong reason. So indirectly we'll be talking about AI,
but mostly just the.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Gay Yes, I like to say, it's a show about
what's gay and interesting and what do we see with
our gay eyes? Talking about that's the eye interesting? And
I'd like to say, if you make the yet another
conversation about just AI, we're probably gonna buzz.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
You, definitely.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
And also we won't go there right because some of
the most interesting things are happening in culture right now
that maybe AI will track but won't create.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
But we need to talk about who's creating culture. Oh,
by the way, spoiler alert that's.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
The gays, and it's definitely the humans.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, well yes, it can't be
dating and it'll be human awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
So Gay I it's all about what's gay, what's interesting,
what's timely, what's important to be talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It's not another AI show.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Hell no, we would be remiss this year if we
were doing a show called Gay I. That's all about
what's breaking through in culture in the gay community, and
we didn't start with the biggest gay show of the year,
changing the game in so many ways. This episode is
going to be all about the phenomenon that is Heated Rivalry.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
The enduring phenomenon, right, the phenomenon that just keeps on
growing and caught us all unawares, even the gays. I
am super excited for it to be our first episode.
I think we're going to learn how brands can capture
the spirit of being joyful and gay in culture and
(02:23):
not do it in an inauthentic way. You know, the
thing about Heated rival which I love is that it's real.
I mean, yes, it's a romance, but romance is real.
There's a struggle and it's a context which you wouldn't
expect the story in and they don't downplay the context
and they don't over romanticize it as you know, a
place which would be easy to be gay. I think
(02:44):
there's so much to learn from it, apart from it
just being gorgeous to watch, and they're obviously gorgeous, all
of them. But I think it's all going to be
a great thing to talk to brands and go, there's
bravery here, and you see how it gets rewarded.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
When we started talking about this show back, you know,
eight nine, ten months months ago, even then, if you'd said, oh, yeah,
you're going to do a show called Gay I about
you know, gays and marketing and culture, and your first
episode is going to be about a hockey romance show
on HBO.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Like no, no, that wasn't a thing.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And now it seems so obvious and so normal that
there would be this beautiful gay romance show on gay
I so, Daryl, who should we talk to to learn
more about why he did Rivalries a phenomenon that it is.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Because it's great entertainment storytelling. I go to one of
the great entertainment storytellers that I know, who's Brendan Gole,
Global Chief Entertainment officer of McCann and somebody who has
worked closely with brands to create this kind of entertainment
storytelling across streaming and digital. And also he happens to
be a gay, so he's welcome on the show, as
(03:52):
are all people, but be like the gays.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
And I agree, I think Brendan has always been one
of those people who's had the gay I right, So
Brendan is going to be a phenomenal guest to help
us deconstruct heated rivalry. And then we'd be remiss if
we didn't get a point of view from the person
sitting at the helm of marketing for the NHL.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
The nl has.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Seen an amazing impact for oh jaman On that is
putting hockey top of mind for so many new consumers.
So I couldn't be more excited to have Heidi Browning,
who I think is just one of the most phenomenal marketers.
And we talk about bringing positivity and joy to every
project and every platform and every team and every campaign
(04:32):
she's ever worked on.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Heidi is just always the.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Queen of inclusivity and listening and embracing new ideas, and
it's going to be exciting to hear more about how
the NHL has been riding this wave and this rocket show.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Yeah, because your can control culture. That's the one thing
that all these big politicians and big leaders of our
time don't understand, which is you can try, but culture wins.
So I think the thing about Heidi as well that'd
be great is both the marketing savvy but also the
media savvy around when you capture a cultural phenomenon, how
(05:08):
do you, as the NHL, become a brand that has
a real point of view around what's happening something you
didn't predict and something you know that could turn against you.
How do we help brands also find their heated rivalry moments?
And then also maybe some brands could be involved in
Heated and Rivalry Season two.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 5 (05:27):
Let's start talking about Heated Rivalry.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I'm excited to have an incredible friend and powerhouse in
media and marketing and creative storytelling, the incredible Brending gall
What is going on with this phenomenon that is the
Heated Rivalry series this year?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Gil, thank you so much for having me and congrats
on this.
Speaker 6 (05:57):
I think that it's more important than ever for brands
to be really focused on figuring out how they drive
cultural relevance and making a splash like perhaps heated rivalry, which,
oh my gosh, is there anything bigger happening in the
world right now that's not related to politics?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I should say that's fun and positive.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, a small indie film out of Canada, right, it's
spiked hockey ticket sales, it sold out romance bookshelves right
at an exact moment in our industry. I think when
Hollywood and Madison Avenue at the same time, we're sort
of backing away from all things LGBTQ in this macro
(06:37):
political climate, what does that actually say about the moment
we're in with the real fans and real viewers and
real people right our Hollywood Madison Avenue out of touch
with where the real zeitgeist is. Did this series just
somehow tap a nerve or is it just really the
(06:58):
right thing at the right moment and we needed joy?
Speaker 7 (07:01):
Wow?
Speaker 6 (07:02):
I think yes, I think we did need joy right
and I think so. I think that it satisfies that need,
like an unmet need that we all have right now,
of being able to escape into a story that is
going to keep you hooked and be joyful. But there
are lots of stories out there, right, it's like why
this one. And to your specific question around if Hollywood
(07:22):
and Madison Avenu are out of touch, I think that
we've gotten to a place where it's almost like a
factory in what we're doing in both entertainment and advertising,
and often it's not about trusting and supporting the creatives, right,
And this feels like a moment where because it was Crave,
(07:48):
a smaller local Canadian player, they had their trust in
Jacob Tierney, the creator, and then he allowed those actors
to really you have these incredible performances, right. It was
almost like everything was the way it's supposed to be.
But at the same time, you've got a bit of
(08:08):
the fairy tale ending, right, at least in season one.
The fact that Ilia shows up for him in that
coming out moment kind of the older tropes of the
way the gay community has been portrayed there. He may
have not shown up for him in that way. Yeah,
his parents may not have accepted him in that way.
I think the other thing that is a big kind
(08:32):
of step forward is the fact that while Ilia is
more assertive and aggressive on the personal side of it,
that Shane actually is the stronger athlete. Right that the
more submissive one in the relationship is able to be
the one that has slightly stronger athleticism on the ice.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Let's be clear.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
Yeah, we all have masculine and feminine. Then we dial
them up and down based on situation. If we had
to say something bad about the series, because I like
looking for the this is a critical eye. If we
have to find something bad, is it? I love that
it opens up new imagination, but I want that imagination
to become real. Only storytelling is helpful keeps hope alive.
(09:18):
If hope could be real? Did they allied some of
the erased some of the concerns about will I be
a successful hockey player while I make money when I
get sponsorships? Well, Rolex and Shane has all those sponsorships,
and I'm like, I want to see it season two
because I want to know does Rolex stay with him?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Does Adidas stay with him?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
True?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I think is.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Relevant to our business as well, right, which is, yeah,
you can live your truth, but does it mean giving
up your livelihood?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I know.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
There is a lot of debate online about Canada Dry
too in that it's featured so heavily in the show,
and it was such a perfect branded moment. It was
not in partnership with them, It was just part of
the narrative, I believe, And it took a while for
and to try to actually pop into the social conversation.
And there's a lot of debate about whether that was
a good or bad thing. Did they miss their moment
(10:07):
to participate? And I think you're right they kind of
left off. Season two will be what happens next. But
what do you think about brands in this moment? Do
you think this show is going to actually change? I
know we've seen a lot of brands back off over
LGBTQ marketing kind of put the rainbows back in the
closet for a minute. In a tense cancel culture and
(10:28):
a risky climate. Do you think this show will have
a positive impact on brands? Pocky is having a moment
and I was trying to think about why, you know,
why in this moment did this show break as big
as it did, And I think it had just had
a lot of fresh things working for it.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
The similarity with the story is great because in terms
of mass culture and brands need to understand that which
is stop clustering around all the big things that everyone
else is doing. Find something undiscovered in the world, bring
that to people.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
I would also say, your point of view is very
much not Canadian.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
No, it's right.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Remember like this is a Canadian show, it's a national sport.
So I also think that we've seen so many imports,
be it squid games or any other kind of outside
US hit that than is coming in. I think this
one feels more easy to understand because it's in English,
because there are parts of it that take place in
(11:26):
the US. But it goes back to that truth of
this being a real Canadian show set in the most
meaningful of arenas, and the rest of the world embracing
and accepting it because it's universal.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
It's by design, right, there's a Russian player, there's busts
and bruins. I think it's also like, if we're going
to get fine listens for brands, it's like, fine specific
things about yourself that are discoverable, but make them universal,
make them true, and tell the truth. Like I'm I
think that could be a lesson in all these episodes.
Tell the truthful people. We'll find out exactly.
Speaker 6 (12:02):
That's the thing. There's so much joy in watching it
in the ups and downs. It's a wild ride, and
it certainly brought a lot of people together at a
time where I think we all could use something to
fan boy and girl about.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Is that why you think it's been so popular, Brendan,
that it's about joy?
Speaker 8 (12:20):
No.
Speaker 6 (12:20):
I think that it's popular because there's so much truth
in it. I think that often shows and films that
are out in the world are over noted and over
noted by these giant studios, and they're made almost for.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
The lowest common denominator.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
That it's about, like, how do we make something that
everyone can see themselves in or accept to watch. But
if you'd spread the peanut butter too thin, you don't
really say anything. You need to get to a very
specific story where people can understand the struggle and the
arc of what you're telling and bring people on the journey.
(13:00):
I think that's what we have here. It is a
love story with drama. It is a story about athleticism.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
We're not going to give you the standard rom com.
We're also not going to give you the genre of
a thousand gay stories that end in tragedy, because those
are the two conventions we're going to give you something
that's the kind of new truth, but it's going to
be We trust you as an audience to hold us
(13:27):
accountable and to not watch it if it starts getting inauthentic.
I was amazed they did that. When I first watched
the first episode, I was like, Oh, they're going to
show the shower scene, which is not like, which is awkward?
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah, and the awkward conversations and yeah, because it is.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's awkward, like life is awkward.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I was going back and looking at what were the
breakout like LGBTQ focus hits of our lifetime, right and
the Brokeback Mountains to their Rocket Mountains and bohemies yep,
pre Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
They're solving I was sobbing it.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Stories and heart wrenching, important stories to be told. But
what I loved about this is it really reflected like
our lives as gay people, right.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
It reflected like the simple.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Conversations, the hard moment where you had to admit things
or share things or come out or They did such
a beautiful job showing the stress and the fear and
then the simplicity of those moments when people go oh, yeah,
you know, and they really normalized so many things that
I think we just have not seen in a lot
(14:33):
of gay Hollywood or gay media, and just simple human truths,
which always makes for great storytelling.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It is a.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
Story about rivalry, and it's a story about finding one's
place in the world where they think they may not
have one. And I think those themes are very universal
and people can relate to them in their own world
and lives, even if they aren't gay, or they aren't
an athlete, or they aren't Canadian.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
You know, Heidi, we definitely want to hear how heated
rivalry is affecting hockey. And you are the person sitting
at the helm of marketing for the NHL, so I
don't think anyone's better situated to actually.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Let us know, like, basically, how did this go?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I mean this was perhaps heated rivalry was the most
unexpected marketing win for hockey. The question here is like,
how did a proudly overtly gay hockey romance managed to
grow streaming minutes ten x right breaking records. It's a
baby reindeer like phenomenon, like a show that just kind
(15:45):
of came out of the closet, so to speak, like
a rocket.
Speaker 9 (15:48):
I mean, it truly is a pop culture zeitgeist, and
it's put hockey on the map around the world, and
it's really the first pop culture moment that I've experienced
in my ten years at the league. For one thing,
it is being talked about in nearly every country in
the world, and over fifty percent of the conversation is
really coming and being driven from the US, which is
(16:09):
really great for us. And the overwhelming sentiment is positive.
We've tried to find any sort of negativity around it.
People when they talk about this show talk about it
not in just positivity, but in extreme positivity, which is
really nice to have that associated with our sport. We've
seen over twenty two million mentions around online about the series,
(16:31):
and then we've seen for NHL and Hockey a twenty
one percent lift in conversation around the globe. Most importantly,
ninety four percent of the users who were talking about
Heated Rivalry they're under the age of thirty five, and
that's a key target demographic for us. We're trying to
get younger, we're trying to get more female, more diverse,
and so Heated Rivalry has really brought all of this
(16:52):
together for us.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
The great thing about culture is the surprises it brings us, right,
which is why.
Speaker 7 (16:58):
Why does this even happening? And how exciting that it is, Daryl.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
We are so excited, aren't we?
Speaker 3 (17:11):
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Speaker 1 (17:18):
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Speaker 3 (17:20):
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Speaker 9 (17:58):
So, of course we had to do some research to
learn more about these heated rival reviewers, who they are,
how is it impacting their perceptions of the league, of
the sport, and sort of you know, what is driving
them to enter the hockey pipeline. We found that sixty
two percent of the Heated Revel reviewers said that they
were more interested in hockey after watching the show, which is,
(18:19):
to your point, a gift to us. But when you
dig down into the audiences, there's only a nine percent
overlap between the heated rivalry viewers audience and our social
media followers, which that means these are net new audiences
to engage and bring into our sport. But it also
sparked a real interest in the NHL players. So we
(18:42):
saw our fans, you know, forty eight percent want to
know more about our players, both on and off the ice.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
It seems like you're navigating something and I'll say this
on Bob of the gay community, which is quite tricky,
which is how do you participate in a cultural moment
which is benefiting you, but also how do you show
to your point of respect and vulnerability. And hey, you know,
athletes are going to like the fact that there's now
a gay community following them as NHL players.
Speaker 9 (19:07):
I loved seeing these you know, hockey dude bros really
embrace the show and talk about it and talk about
how the entire ecosystem really is ready and willing and
open to having a gay player in the league. And
we've had a lot of players who talk about it.
Charlie McAvoy, who's on the Boston Bruins, and Bruins were
one of the first to you know, lean in on this,
(19:28):
but Charlie McAvoy said, you know, it's awesome for hockey,
it's awesome for everyone. And then Nick Suzuki, who's at
the Canadians, he said, and I want to read his
quote too because it's really important because I do think
it represents how we as a league feel. But he says,
as a team, I think we're well prepared to welcome
anyone that would come out. I think we're very open
group and we're always accepting of each other. That wouldn't
(19:51):
change if someone came out and was on our team
or another team. And we want this message to be
heard loud and clear because it is time. Our big
moment is our Stanley Cup playoffs, like we work our
whole season to this, you know, our Super Bowl or
the Stanley Cup playoffs. So we obviously asked these heated
rival reviewers if they were interested in watching the playoffs,
(20:11):
and more specifically, we ask people who didn't consider themselves
NHL fans at all, and forty one percent of them
said that now after seeing the show, they were interested
in watching our playoffs. And I might add that our
ratings are off the charts strong right now. We are
seeing double and triple digit lifts over last year. It's
incredible and we're only in the first round. We haven't
(20:32):
even gotten to the second round, so we can't directly
correlate it to heated rival reviewers. But because hockey is
part of just the culture and conversational zeitgeist, we think
that that's part of the momentum behind our ratings.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Okay, so the NHL is a brand making good work
out of this amazing cultural moment, but you know where
market is here as well as LGBTQ advocates and allies.
Do you think other brands can learn from how you've
reacted to this moment? Like, how would you advise brands
to think about a moment like this, which is hot
(21:06):
in good and bad ways, right, could be hot for
you and dangerous if you get it wrong.
Speaker 9 (21:12):
That is the nuance of this whole moment. While we
appreciate it and value it, we're also carefully thinking through
our participation in it, and it's caused us to hold
the mirror up to our own faces and talk about,
you know, what is the work that we're doing in
the community to show that we're authentically engaging. And that's
(21:32):
what I would say for any brand who wants to
get involved in it, whether it's this you know, heated rivalry,
cultural moment, or even just a TikTok trend, whatever you do,
you have to participate in an authentic manner because when
you jump in just for the sake of jump it in,
fans us that out right away and you can have
really negative backlash. And our teams and the league did
(21:53):
all kinds of like subtle nods to heated rivalry through
social media content and clever captions.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
We hosted playlists, lots of playlists, lots.
Speaker 9 (22:03):
Of playlists, and playing in the arenas. The sots of
the arenas, Montreal showed the trailer in the arena, which
I was like, that's spicy, but you know that was,
you know, another way to get the storylines and the
important conversations going. But for us, the most important part
is sparking the conversations about inclusivity in our sport. Hands down,
(22:25):
I was so surprised how many of the you know,
Hockey Dude podcasts were actually having genuine discussions in conversation
about it and to me. That was huge. This is
a huge shift in impact and culture because they weren't
making fun of it. They were actually talking about how
it must feel to walk in the shoes of Shane
and Ilia. You know, they talked about the loneliness that
(22:46):
Scott Hunter had, and you know, the fear that Shane
had when his dad saw and like, you know that
moment when his mom was like what could I have
done better? Like all those moments touched everyone and the
you know, the league is I.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Mean, so question for you is a brand's missing out
here because you're in it? I mean you have to
be in it. If you were a Coca Cola or
a or a Gillette or something, would you be Canada
das all the brands actually in the storyline?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, you know, I was wondering, like we've got season
two coming, like do you expect more brands are gonna
jump on the bandwagon or should they? Yeah, what would
your advice be? You kind of got put on the bandwagon?
Speaker 9 (23:25):
Yeah, I mean I think they should jump on if
it's a natural, authentic integration into the story and the storyline.
Speaker 6 (23:31):
I do think it'll have a positive impact on brands.
And I say that because of what I think we're
already seeing in the real world with the real actors, right, So,
I mean they certainly have been embraced by brands. I
do think that the taste makers are certainly accepting them
as actors. And there were a lot of brands in
(23:54):
the first season that were either just part of the storyline,
like Kind to Dry or Adidas, but there were some
placements as well that you know around the leaderboards around
the back of the hockey rink as an agency that
had placed Energizer back there, and I think Cheerio's and
a couple others. I think those all will become more
(24:15):
monetizable moments now that you've got HBO max in like
at the beginning, that they're now attached to season two
and three. I do believe that it will get into
the kind of system and machine that will find the
right brands to align with this show to not only
bolster budget, but also bring the right level of co
marketing that you would see, you know, from a show
(24:37):
that's bringing these kind of eyeballs.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
So Rolex was the I can't remember if he signed
the deal or that was looking to sign the deal
with Shane Hollander, right so Rolix was the That was
when he realized.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Momb realized this, He's.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Going to be big as a figure in culture. What
would you do if you were the Rolex brand manager
for season two? What would the Brendan brand entertainment guru?
He was a brand with heated rivalry.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Wow, I think there's so much that you could do.
Speaker 6 (25:08):
I think it would be really interesting to release the
advertising with Shane Hollander, not with Hudson Williams, but with
Shane Hollander. And you know, I think that there's this
really interesting play happening right now. I don't know if
you've seen any of the tourism stuff. They said the
proud birthplace of Shane Hollander, and then the other one
had said Hudson Williams the actor, and then Montreal came
(25:31):
in and said, but he plays hockey here, like the.
Speaker 9 (25:34):
Canada Dry was a perfect example of that. That put
Canada Dry back on the map again, which you know
you kind of forgot about, but then all of a
sudden it became. You know, their sales were up in
all these fun things. So I do think that, you know,
now's the time for any marketers who want to get
involved to talk with the show creators because they're in
the process of doing that. They're also you know, they
did this out of love and not on a very
(25:56):
high budget, which I'm sure they shared with you. It's
going to be a game changer and open intended for
their next season because they now have a much bigger
scope and i'm sure ability to integrate brands and to
drive revenue from the show. So again, this is our
moment to embrace, but we have to tread, you know,
(26:17):
mindfully and authentically to be a part of the movement.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I almost fear the idea of season two having a
Barbie like moment, right, so many brand integrations, so many
crazy fun ideas. I kind of hope that happens, but
it also could just get completely distracted by a whole
bunch of brand integrations and just marketers there for no reason.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, and I hope that doesn't happen.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
I hope they protect the creative and the creatives on it,
the show itself, right, because I mean, just the choice
in casting, right. Yes, they're both brilliant, but in our
world it would be very hard to get a show
moving with unknown actors like them attached, because either the
(27:04):
brand or the studio partner wouldn't take the leap right.
It's empowering artists to create art without all of the
layers of network and studio executive and formal integrations from
brands and you know, so it's almost like all of
the industry that we put on top of art sometimes
(27:27):
feels like it can smother it, whereas here it really
does feel like the creative talent working on the show
were actually empowered to bring their best creative work to it.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
We talk about this a lot, Brendan, I want to say,
not all unencumbered art is good, Like sometimes you let
the creatives go and they're arrogant and they don't do
something that also is important, which is to trust the audience.
The great thing I think about Heated Rivalry is that
it trusts sposed the creator, but also the audience. The
(28:00):
hockey was as real as you expect in like a
show about a romance. But I was really moved by
the story, and it's great that people are new, people
are coming in and in the US, where it is complicated,
Can we say that right now to talk about anything
that is not you know, mainstream masculine straight Because of
the situation we have for even in that context, we
(28:20):
would say, yeah, you know what, I came not wanting
to be a bit of a hater, but I kind
of got moved in that last episode and my mother
and I was like, yeah, the times when you know,
my mother didn't understand things I was doing. I was like,
what is going on? Something big and by the way,
something that all brands can participate it.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I mean so, but it.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
Reminds me, Gail a conversation we were having where brands
were fearful of jumping into the queer space in marketing
because they were afraid that they'd be judged harshly by
our own community if they didn't do it right.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
True, it didn't do it perfectly right, then that was
going to be the story.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
And who's to say that's the thing? Is like, you
put this monolith think view of our community, but it's
not the case. We are as wildly different as any
other community in the world. There's no way to be gay,
something I've always fought my whole life, and it's so true.
Some organizations who would let me join, they're like, you're
not gay enough. In the US, I remember, there's one
(29:18):
specific organization like you can't join.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You're not gay enough. I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 5 (29:23):
We are as complex and messy as anyone, but at least.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
People are talking about it. Yeah, and not avoiding it.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
It's so true.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
I think you're so right to give brands permission to
take risks. And you'll hit, and you'll miss and make mistakes.
It's all okay, and we'll move on to the next ad.
And in that kind of sameness that they've been driven to,
it is bold choices in stories that they're going to tell,
stories that they're going to align with, communities that they're
going to align with that work for their brand. That's
(29:54):
going to be the differentiator. We just need some brave
marketers to do.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
It truth well told.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
I just thought that the way that the characters and
the world was built so beautifully, and what Jacob Tierney
did in bringing together the exact right costume designer and
production designer and director of photography, like it all came
together and built a world that just felt true. It
just felt like a world that we knew. We felt
(30:23):
like we could walk into that apartment or buy a
ticket to go to that hockey game. And I think
that's one of the things that just makes it feel
so so comfortable. You know, you're seeing things that you
may not be used to seeing hot gay sex that
feels very real, and hard conversations that are moving the
(30:44):
story forward. But it's all in this container that just
feels warm and nutural.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I think you're so right.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
The art direction and the set design was so right
on because they moved from their gorgeous I have a
massive paycheck as a professional hockey player, gorgeous modern apartments,
the cottage all the way to you know, the crappy
hotel rooms they spend halfway year.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
They didn't really.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
That, you know, when they didn't try and like manipulate
with swelling music and like you know, they just let.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
It be, which which I so appreciate. Good art, good art.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
No, it's an incredible moment.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
More brands coming to the NHL also to ride this
new increased demand for and fandom around hockey.
Speaker 9 (31:27):
There's a lot of hockey curious curiosity happening out there.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
It's an undiscovered joy, right the NHL. Like it's not
a mainstream it's not NBA, it's not NFL.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
It's always been a little indie, right if you know,
you know, kind of thing. I would think a lot
of brands that wouldn't typically think, you know, they might
put hockey in the straight white guy bucket.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
We want to reach them, we sell these things to them.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
But now I would imagine you're getting interest from a
lot more brands that want to reach a much more
diverse demographic, you know, women and gays.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Younger, younger consumers.
Speaker 9 (32:02):
We've grown our youth fan base, our female fan base,
our diverse fan base double digits over the last year,
and that's really important to us. We're at forty percent
women is hockey fans across North America. It's even higher
in Canada, and when you look at youth hockey, girls,
youth hockey is the fastest growing sport of all and
(32:23):
that's been really exciting to see because you know, fandom
starts when you're a kid.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
I feel like the missing story that I'm getting my
head around. I'm happy to show my blind spots because
I think that's how we improve is. I think there's
a story about women's hockey that hasn't been told, that
it should be told pretty quickly. So Gail and I
will brainstorm with you. We'll have a creative storm with
you around, how we can tell that story and find
some brands who'd want to tell it, you know, some
women's empowerment brands, and some beauty brands and some sports brands.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
You hear it much more that women's hockey is becoming
a thing. I would also give massive credit to women's
sports and the LGBTQ community where they've come so far,
so fast in a very LGBTQ friendly way with the
WNBA the NWSL. I think it's really opened up people's
(33:14):
eyes to the ability for athletes to be whoever they are,
and as diverse as they are coming into mainstream you know,
sort of straight culture. There's got to be room for that.
Speaker 9 (33:25):
I guess it was right after the Olympics we hosted
what's called our Pride Cup, and this is our third
year of doing it. We do it in conjunction with
the NHLPA and with the You Can Play and this
we held this one in Vancouver, so just outside of Seattle.
It was actually Surrey, British Columbia, and we featured three
different hockey games featuring the Vancouver Cutting Edge and the
(33:48):
Seattle Pride Hockey Association. We had content creators like Cody
Rigsby and Brian Williamson there to like host the show
and talk about it, and we brought in coaching sessions
for the local youth hockey teams so that they can
really learn to expand their impact and you know, understand
how to create inclusive locker rooms at the youngest age,
(34:09):
because if you start at the youngest age, that's going
to carry with you all the way through to the NHL.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
I think for a lot of people, they probably didn't
realize you can't just show up for this minute because
there's this cultural phenomenon and then go away. I think
it's really interesting right now you have a platform to
talk about work you've been doing for decades, which wouldn't
be a conversation you'd probably be having on podcasts if
the show hadn't kind of put a spotlight on this
(34:35):
topic exactly.
Speaker 9 (34:36):
And our clubs are all investing in their own communities.
We've had over the course of the last couple of years,
all thirty two clubs having you know, Pride Nights, and
many of them do custom jerseys that they find queer
artists in the community, and then they'll do a whole
content series about who they are and how they came
to be and what their intersection is with exactly. The
(34:59):
Kraken are some of the best at it. In San
Jose Sharks too. So I recently went to the sellout
game at MSG. The PWHL sold out a game at
Madison Square Garden and it was the Seattle Torrent versus
the New York Sirens, and I could not believe the
atmosphere in that arena. It was, you know, a lot
(35:19):
of queer people, happy people, girls, a lot of dads
that and everyone watches women's sports and we had girl
dad hats on and it was incredible. And when they
went around and did the fan shots on the JumboTron,
you know, normally they just do the you know everyone
like dances or does something goofy. Well, at the PW game,
(35:40):
everyone turned it into a kiss him, a gay kiss him,
and everyone in the arena cheered as loudly for the
kisses as they did for the goals. I'm not kidding you.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
It was amazing.
Speaker 9 (35:52):
Yeah, it was so a lot of love.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Here's a brief for you, brands.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Here's your opportunity to really create culture and help the world.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Right, those are the things that I'm told drive growth.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yes, creating a little culture getting noticed in a massive way,
attaching to a massive property when the world is paying attention,
here's your opportunity.
Speaker 6 (36:14):
Right, But who's going to do it? Which brands do
we think? I'd say, maybe have the permission to, but
also would have the kind of guts to who's going
to be brave, who's going to put themselves out there?
You know, it's a huge opportunity. I think that marketers
and the conversations I'm having are more about a broader message.
(36:38):
And yes, it is an inclusive message, and the queer
community is a part of that. But I have seen
a turnaround of getting like we need a campaign or
a story that is going to target the LGBTQ demographic
as a target audience or as a consumer target. There
(37:00):
are even brands that are fifty percent use is among
the queer community, and it's it's like a let's do
it for everybody.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah, you were going to reach the gays.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
If we target everyone, they'll see our stuff through mass marketing.
Speaker 9 (37:18):
Right. It's wonderful to see women's sports having you know,
their moment as well, and I could not be happier
that hockey is enjoying it both, you know, because of
heated rivalry. But let's you know, not forget that both
the men's and women's team won the Olympic Golds.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
On the global stage.
Speaker 9 (37:34):
Mean incredible, and so we have to continue to ride
this you know, wave for as long as possible and
bring in as many new fans whatever pathway they choose
to come in to enjoy our sport.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
You've got everything colliding, you know, You've got this fabulous,
fast paced, like insanely athletic sport coming together with like
some of the best culture and filmmaking that we've seen
in the past year, and that it's hitting with diverse audiences,
and that you're open and welcoming everyone into this new
(38:06):
club that crosses these boundaries. It's really phenomenal thing to watch.
So just love it. Can't wait to see what comes.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yes, so many good things.
Speaker 9 (38:17):
Thank you so much. It's such a joy to speak
with you. I hope I see you irl one of
these days very soon.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yes, Daryl, we got to go to a game.
Speaker 9 (38:26):
Yeah, I'm in Okay, we'll find a game that's you
convenient for all of us.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
To get to some good heated rivalries and the Stanley
Cup playoffs.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
This was great. Thank you, Brendan.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
As always, I am smarter whenever I get a chance
to pick your brain on pretty much any topic.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Thanks so much, Gail. It's always great to be with you.
Speaker 10 (38:49):
So, Gail, we're gonna start a new segment with our
first podcast called I Spy with My gay IE, getting
views of people who seeing the world through the gay
I with a different perspective to us. I think you've
got somebody exciting who's going to kick us off for us.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yes, our first I Spy with My Gay I features
our good friend George Severs from Stradio Lab, an amazing
comedy podcast on iHeart. Check it out and let's hear
what George is spying with his gay I this week.
Speaker 8 (39:20):
Hi everyone, this is George Severs from Stradio Lab and
today I Spy with My Gay I believe it or not,
a different podcast. You know it's good if I am
promoting something that is not myself in the audio podcasting space.
I Spy with My Gay I a mini series that
the podcast Bansplain did that is all about Madonna and
(39:42):
Madonna's place in pop culture history, tracing her from her
birth to today. It is a series that is I
think in total over fifteen hours. There are four parts
and each of them is almost four hours long. It
is hosted by Yasi Salek and Bansplain in general is
sort of a music podcast that explores more like you know,
(40:05):
guitar based bands. It's very like Pearl Jam type thing,
and so it is very cool that Yasi decided to
devote sixteen hours of it for her. I'm going to
assume largely male audience to Madonna and sort of forcing,
you know, people that normally want to log in and
learn about the Strokes and Pearl Jam to really sit
(40:26):
with Madonna's cultural legacy. So there are so many sort
of fun facts that I learned along the way, even
as a Madonna fan myself, that I never knew. One
of my favorite fun facts is obviously a Ray of Light,
huge era for Madonna, one of my favorite albums, and
it is inspired by her newfound spirituality. It is inspired
by her experience with kabbala on one hand and of
(40:48):
course yoga on the other. And there's this one song,
sky Fits Heaven that I always thought was so you know,
personal to Madonna and inspired by her spiritual journey. And
I learned on the podcast. In fact, it is inspired
by a poem that she heard on a gap ad,
So that's just a nice It's important to remember that
you can get inspiration from anywhere, whether it's whether it's
(41:10):
the teachings of Kabbala or a gap ad in nineteen
ninety seven. Overall, just a really fun conversational series. And
even if you think you know a lot about Madonna,
there's more to learn. And so I thought it would
be a fun thing to shout out as we await
Madonna's big comeback with Confessions to this summer. So that
is my I spy with my gay eye for today, Dale.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
What's the takeaway? I mean, there's so many takeaways, all good.
What's you a big takeaway from this?
Speaker 3 (41:39):
I think the most inspiring thing about this conversation was
the most inspiring thing about watching Heated Rivalry is that
it put full frontal gay attitudes and culture and ideas
at the forefront, in the spotlight, in front of the camera,
and the entire world woke up and rallied around it.
(42:02):
So I just take away hope that more marketers, more brands,
more filmmakers and creatives can come together and create incredible
mind blowing art and culture that drives entertainment that makes
us all joyous and hopefully sell some products along the
way too.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
These are well told stories that I mean, yes you
said full frontal like bare butt naked. Beare butt naked stories,
but they're also stories like it's a lesson for all
of us as marketers.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
We just go find the stories.
Speaker 5 (42:35):
Don't do the cute symbols, don't do the shortcut.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Let's look at the stories behind people's lives. That's actually
where people are interested with.
Speaker 5 (42:45):
The magic happens where brands can participate and they can
tell stories. Brands can tell stories better than most entities
and culture.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
So tell the stories of the gays. We've got plenty
to tell.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Yes, we do no shortage of gay stories to tell.
Speaker 5 (42:59):
That's why gay IY is here and we'll be back
for another episode shortly.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Thanks for listening to gay I.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
Follow the show wherever you get to your podcasts, share
this episode with a marketer, founder, creative director, or just
a groove chat that needs a little more gay I.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
And we want to hear what you spy with your
gay I, so send us your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Let's keep the conversation going.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
You can follow US, bubbler Media on LinkedIn, iHeartMedia, YouTube,
or wherever you socialize.
Speaker 9 (43:32):
Gay I is a Bubbler Media iHeart podcast production.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
If you're not in the conversation, you're not in the game.
Speaker 7 (43:45):
Gay I
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