December 17, 2025 • 40 mins
Ajit Mohan, Chief Business Officer at Snap, joins Michael Kassan to unpack how a “middle child” platform can outmaneuver giants by protecting sacred consumer spaces and betting on deeper connection over infinite scroll. From reimagining advertising inside messaging to challenging marketing leaders to confront inertia, Ajit shares a clear-eyed vision for building relevance, growth, and humanity in the next era of media.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
We are in some ways like a middle child. We
have much larger than the smaller platforms like Reddit and Pinterest,
much smaller than the large tech giants like Meta and Google.
What that really means is that we have the opportunity
to leverage the scale that we already have, but equally,
(00:23):
we're not large enough where we can leverage all of
it that makes startups really nimble and innovative and fast moving.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'm Michael Casson, and this is Good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports and technology.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(01:02):
up a lesson or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Welcome back to Good Company Today. I'm joined in the
studio by a very special guest, a Jeep Mohan, chief
business officer at Snap, where he's helping shape how the
next generation connects, communicates, and creates. Before Snap he scaled
hot Star into India's streaming giant and then led Meta
across one of the world's most dynamic markets. He's gone
(01:30):
from building from zero to operating at global scale to
now driving a challenger company that dares to stand apart,
one that's betting the future is an endless, scrolling but deeper,
more human connection. At Snap, a Jeet sits at the
intersection of product performance and culture, leading the ad business
while also guiding the engineering that powers monetization. A Jet
(01:54):
combines bold thinking with clear practical insight into how enduring
businesses are built. Get ready for a conversation about the
future of media leadership, ingenuity and seeing opportunities where others
see obstacles. Let's dive in Ajeet.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Welcome Creative here, Michael.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Your career, as I said, has taken you from building
hot Star in India into a streaming powerhouse, really starting
from you from scratch to leading Meta in one of
the fastest growing and most complex markets, and now to Snap,
a company that has built its reputation and candidly embodied
(02:34):
by the founder, Evan Spiegel, of being different.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Absolutely, and I do think I benefit from having been
around the world a bit, Michael, and also having spent
as you mentioned, quite a few years building from scratch
and working in technology and media for a while. And
by the way, I spent the first decade of my
career in consulting, looking at the industry from the outside,
(03:02):
and I think that was helpful as well. I do
think all of that has helped get to this moment
where I have this great opportunity to work with Evan
and Bobby in a company that they've built over the
last fourteen years. As you put it, to be Different,
I think, going back to the origin of the company,
they called it right, I think that there was need
(03:25):
for a platform that connected people, that could foster authentic relationships,
and one that bet on intimacy and the strength of
relationships and friendships rather than public affirmation. And we are
now nine hundred and thirty million Snapchatters around the world.
(03:45):
Evan mentioned as recently, we think we're going to cross
a bill in next year. So clearly being Different has
also created something that is of immense value to people
around the world, because it's not for lack of competition
that we're nearly a billion snapchat us.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
I've been accused of hyperbole more than once in my career.
But I'm going to say, as close as you are,
I don't exaggerate. I see the future. So with a
billion subscriber, with a billion folks on the platform, or
damn close to it, has that it's quite a growth story.
I've been fortunate a gee to have, you know, a
(04:25):
long history. Yeah, yeah, I met Evan, not right out
of the gate, but I met Evan probably a dozen
years ago. And Bobby, and you know, for me, as
somebody who's had the opportunity to advise and watch the
growth of the company through its ups and downs and pitfalls,
it's like raising children. To me, I look at companies
(04:45):
that I've had the good fortune of being involved with
from the inception. It's no different than raising our children.
And you know, I'm curious you had a startup mentality
and yet you know you're in the scale of giants
now with billions of people. The learning you got from
consulting obviously helped you, but the learning from a startup
mentality has to really play an important role totally.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And Michael, look, you've been a friend of the company
for a while and as you have said, we've been
through a lot I've been here three years, but when
you look at the history of the company, it's been
a strong innovator. It's created so many new formats that
went on to define the Norman industry. You know, we've
had lots of ups and downs as well. Evan puts
(05:30):
this eloquently that we are in some ways like a
middle child. We have much larger than the smaller platforms
like Reddit and Pinterest, much smaller than the large tech
giants like Meta and Google. What that really means is
that we have the opportunity to leverage the scale that
(05:51):
we already have, but equally, we're not large enough where
we can leverage all of which that makes startups really
nimble and innovative and fast moving. I think to your question, Michael,
I've seen that having built us outed from scratch, I
feel the same energy here even now. And you know,
I think it comes from two things, right. I think
we feel we have an alternative to offer to the
(06:14):
world quite different from Meta and Google, both to users
around the world in terms of what we stand for,
a more authentic, intimate experience that connects people and they're
happy when they're on Snapchat. That's the thing that keeps
coming out, ninety ninety five percent of snapchatters said they're
(06:35):
happy to use the platform and then to offer an
alternative to advertise us. Because I think you will agree, Michael,
and you've seen the industry all quite a bit. I
do think marketeers need a viable alternative to the two
largest platforms. I'm curious, what do you think about it?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
It's so interesting, gee, you know, I try to personalize
these conversations always, so when you talked about the middle child,
and I hope my sister isn't listening to this podcast,
but if you look up middle child in the dictionary,
you'll see my sister's picture, and she was always convinced.
And you know, on a personal note, I was the
youngest in a family with two older sisters, which might
(07:11):
explain to the audience my personality because my sisters would
always describe me as the sun Sun. So maybe that
says something. But truly, when you describe a middle child,
I'm so familiar with that mentality. And that's a great
way to look at snap because you're kind of in
be tween, you know. And yet the market does need alternatives.
(07:32):
When we realized, you know, back a few years ago,
when Amazon decided to break out their numbers for the
first time, and you realize that the amount of advertising
that was being sold on Amazon. What did that do?
That got everybody's attention, and that spawned this growth of
retail media and commerce media. So you see so much
money moving there. That's the other side of this is
(07:55):
you've got the platforms looking at generating revenue in an
entirely different way. That's a new challenge that didn't exist
three years ago or was just starting to I guess,
I guess it's fair to say it existed, but we
didn't realize the power of what commerce media or retail
media was going to be doing to advertising spend. Are
you seeing that impact at snap in terms of, you know, ge,
(08:18):
our money's going over here and over there, That money
is coming from somewhere.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I think there are three parts to this, Michael.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
One, we are seeing competition everywhere, right, I think marketers
have lots and lots of options. The other part of
it is many of these large commerce companies are partners
and clients of ours, and all of this shift from
offline to online commerce has also been a driver of
(08:44):
growth for us. And the third part of it is
retail media right, and there's a whole bunch of live
conversations underway in terms of how we can partner with
some of these companies to drive the next wave of
retail media. I think for us, it comes back to
a couple of things that makes us different. One, the
(09:05):
community that is there on Snapchat. Nearly seventy five percent
of thirteen to thirty four year olds in the largest
twenty twenty five economies around the world around snap I
think we are the platform for gen Z and millennials,
and irrespective of competition and what else is going on,
(09:26):
I think for companies that are looking to build the
brand for the future, we are the go to platform,
and we should be the go to platform. I think
the second one, Michael, and you know this really well.
The main reason why the platform is the snap is
on the messaging tap. And yet for the longest time
(09:46):
we did not allow ads or messaging, and I think
there was a disconnect between where the engagement energy of
the platform was and what we made available to the advertising. Yeah,
and you know we blew that artificial separation earlier this year.
You know, we didn't allow it for all the right reasons.
(10:07):
We were cautious. This was the sacred space right for
all the reasons that snapchat stands out as the place
for authentic, intimate conversations, we had to be careful. But
once we opened the floodgates, what we are realizing is
that not only is it powerful for marketers, consumers allowing
(10:28):
it as well. This intuitively something we understood, which is
that the conversation about brands and products and categories is
the conversation between friends. It's not distinct from the ongoing
conversation between friends and family totally.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And ajit.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Let me tell you that I can bring this to
the four and you'll have the opportunity coming up with
the Consumer Electronics events in Las Vegas in January to
meet the leadership from Unilever. But I love to tell
this story of the CEO of Unilever many years ago,
many years ago saying to me, and it's funny. I'll
(11:06):
try and get it right. He said, Michael. Now we
happen to be in can and this is probably close
to seventeen or eighteen years ago. He said, Michael, do
we need to pay attention to these friends? Stirs and
literally refer to it that way, And I said well,
this was Paul Pullman, who was then the CEO of Unilever.
(11:27):
I said, well, Paul, I had a mentor who taught
me something very important. When you have an opportunity to
have a conversation with your customer, you should take advantage
of it. Unilever at the time, they think the number
was one point six billion people a day globally touch
a Unilever project. I said, wouldn't it be amazing if
(11:50):
you could talk to all those people?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
He said, what do you mean?
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I said, well, you know you can't. Literally the impression
I was taught. If you had a choice of your feet,
your fat, actually your phone we didn't have email back,
then use your feet, get in front of the person,
Get in front of that client. You can't do that
with one point six billion people. But now you have
a platform or platforms where you can communicate directly to
your consumer. I rest my case. You're kind of saying
(12:15):
the same thing. I mean, obviously I wasn't prescient. It
was obvious to me and somebody not from marketing. Back
then it wasn't as obvious, but certainly today it is.
And your point, the consumer actually welcomed it, even though
we thought perhaps at snap you were doing the consumer
a favor.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
And your insighter is bang on, right, Michael, which is
it is the opportunity to talk to nearly a billion
users every day, and in the case of sponsored snaps,
which is what we call ads on the messaging tab,
you are doing it in an intimate setting and in
a place where Snapchat does expect to receive relevant, useful,
(12:57):
valuable information. So yes, I mean, now, looking back, it
should not have been a surprise, right that consumers would
love it. I saw a recent Cantor study that said
that Snapchat is number two now on platforms where consumers
want to see ads, right above TikTok. And I don't
think we were on the top five last year.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
That's market progress. I mean, that's those are strong numbers.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I think, yeah, exactly, And I think to your point,
I mean, what we are saying is there is a
shift from public scroll of in finite video to messaging
in a context where you're connected to people that matter
to you. And I think we're speaking to that shift,
and I think snapchatters are getting it and marketers are
(13:44):
getting it. But the other thing that selled Michael is
our ads have become more performant because of all the
investments we've made in the last three years to build
out our ad platform. It is not just the context
of where the ads show up. It is still about
personalization and scale and relevance. And I think the enormous
(14:04):
progress that we have made in the last three years
allows us to leverage this moment of sponsored snaps a
lot more than if we had launched it three years
ago or five years ago.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Absolutely, especially as you said, since the audience seems to
want it. Let me get very specific, ajee. Snap has
always gone against the grain of social media creativity, over broadcasting,
friends over followers. How do you keep that differentiation sharp
and relevant so you're not just another okay, not the other,
(14:38):
but just you're not another Again, back to the middle child.
Is there a play with hardware and that's a lob
for sure, But is there a play with hardware that
you can chat about of course that gives you that
special position?
Speaker 1 (14:54):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
And to where this conversation started as well, Michael, A
load of it goes to the founders. Evan and Bobby
are still in charge and are still deeply in the weeds,
and therefore a lot of the innovation comes from making
sure that we're being true to the original vision.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I think to your question of how do you make
sure that you're different and despite all of what is
going on in the world, how do we still make
sure that we are delivering a Snapchat experience that is
true to the original vision. The fact that the founders
are in charge and driving that innovation helps. Second, I
think the community expects it from us. If we're more
(15:35):
than nine hundred and thirty million snapchatters now, it's because
we've delivered on that uniqueness of the experience. Because people
around the world have lots of options, including when it
comes to choosing messaging platforms. Therefore, we feel the owners
to make sure that we are retaining the distinctive nature
(15:56):
of the experience. And then I think to your question
where all of this has said it. You know, if
we look back and think about it, a lot of
the innovation over the last fourteen years has been on
the mobile, right, And I think it's great that we're
almost a bill in users on the mobile, but we
know that the mobile, the smartphone, has a lot of
(16:18):
constraints and one of the areas that the company has
been investing in and we have invested more than three
billion dollars. Isn't building ar glasses with the idea of
if you take the original vision of connecting people deeply
to each other and allowing them to engage with each
(16:39):
other in their daily lives, and people who are close
to you friends and family, not you know, friends that
you barely know on the other side of the world,
but people that you're engaging with every day in your
daily life. We thought there's a tremendous opportunity to take
that vision to hardware. You know, what if you don't
have to look down on a smartphone for seven hours?
(17:01):
What if you could look up? What if you could
not be constrained by typing into something which is really
small but using vision and voice. That's sort of what
we've been building.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
You made us emotion that obviously our listeners can't see.
But when you talked about that, it showed how hard
habits are to break. And I experienced the glasses and
it's an amazing experience from my perspective as a consumer,
So I see where you're going. It's just interesting of
breaking that habit.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Look, I mean, both of us know the smartphone has
been around for a while, and you know, it's made
such a massive impact on all our lives. It's driven
so much innovation, it's built giant digital economies around the world.
But we know there is something that comes after this
that can be better, and our bet is on ar glasses.
We introduce a developer version of these glasses last year.
(17:56):
I think, Michael, you've been seeing the progressive those glasses
over the last few Coders developers are building lots and
lots of applications, but the core idea is you wear
these glasses, you're able to engage with the world outside.
It's aware of the physical space. With all of the
progress in AI, we also think that these glasses could
(18:19):
be a great carrier for AI where you're speaking to
the glasses which I have a spatial understanding what is
going on, and importantly, you can see through. And that
goes back to the original vision of the company that
how do you build technology that connects people that is
still rooted in the physical world, that is still rooted
in relationships that are important to people. And that's the
(18:42):
vision that we have.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
We're going to hit pause for a moment, but stay
with us after the break. We've got more insights to share.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
You're striking a chord with me that always resonates because
one of the tenants that three C is based on
is the convene part of our business, and that's bringing
people together.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah mean, but clearly good at it.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I mean, I think we were talking about the Can
dinner where I think you've booked a place for five
hundred people and the venue folks said, I think you
should book thousand, and I think more than thousand people
showed up.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I was there that night.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You've been great at convening people. But I mean you've
done that in terms of bringing people in the industry together.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
The one on one interaction, the in real life interaction,
you know, the offline if you will. But bringing it
together is what's so special ajit Uniquely in your role
as Chief Business Officer, there's been a restructuring of teams
with monetization Engineering, et cetera reporting directly to you, and
(19:53):
that makes a lot of sense because again your title
was expanded beyond just chief revenue Officer, it's chief business Officer.
I think I understand it, but I love your description
of the strategic rationale because I look at this through
the lens off times of what the job description is
of a particular person, and you know, I see it
(20:13):
through the lens of marketers often when you ask a
chief marketing officer what their actual job title is, because
sometimes it's Chief Marketing and Communications, sometimes it's Chief Marketing
and Growth, sometimes it's Chief marketing rarely and product. In
your case, under the CBO, you've got product and all
of that reporting to you.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
With only one goal, Michael, which is how do we
make sure that all of the parts of the organization
that serve advertisers, that serve marketers come together in a
unified way.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I think if you step back and kind of think
about us as a company nine thirty million users, but
our revenue is much smaller compared to the scale and
size of our platform and how consequential we are, especially
amongst the gen Z and millennial community around the world.
So there really is an organizational imperative to fuel revenue growth,
(21:16):
and we wanted to make sure that we are taking
away any impediment to it. So by bringing together the
ADS product, the ADS engineering, and the sales and OPS organizations,
we want to make sure that we are building our
AD platform and driving innovation quickly. Like the launch of
sponsored snaps and scaling it. We want to make sure
(21:37):
that what we're building in product is taken out to
the world quickly, and then we want to make sure
that everything that we hear from marketers from advertisers in
terms of what we need to do different and where
we can improve and where we can add more value,
that goes back to the people who are building the
ads product team quickly. So I think of it less
(21:59):
as a my title, but more the strategic choice that
the organization has made that this is important to us.
We are going to bring everything together to move fast
and drive value for our clients and partners.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
But why it matters, and particularly for our listeners A
ged It matters because there are not many people who
are qualified to do all of those things, and you're
up for that task. I'm going to switch to the
other side, to the marketers. At the end of the day,
marketers today are under more pressure than ever. Why procurement finance.
You know one of the chief marketing officers that I
(22:33):
have great respect for, Andrea Brimmer from Alibank. At a
conference recently, she brought her chief financial officer to the conference.
She was being interviewed and She looked out at the
audience and said, look, I know you all think you're
pitching me as the CMO, you're actually pitching Sally, who's
my chief financial officer and my partner driving ROI is critical.
(22:57):
Is there a metric you're in these conversation, Yes, with
your revenue side of your EBO title. Is there a
metric that you wish would disappear that cmos seem to
be still clinging to.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yes, But I want to address your that story, and
I think it's bang on. The CFO is a big
stakeholder now in deciding where the money is spent, and
rightly so. With all of the change, with all of
the proliferation of platforms and choices, and now automation driving
a lot of the agenda, it is not a surprise
(23:31):
that the CFO is almost a co equal or co
partner in marketing choices for me. I think the biggest
challenge that we have, Michael, and you've seen this is
we've reached a stage where Meta and Google are two
great companies, but we have now reached a stage where
no marketer gets fired for spending all of their money
(23:54):
on Meta and Google. And yet if I were the CFO,
I would really start challenging whether, even for all the
goodness in these platforms and their scale, are you getting
value for the last dollar that you're spending on Google
and Meta. You know, when we look at the numbers,
(24:16):
it's pretty clear that the last fifteen, twenty, twenty five
or thirty percent of the money that is spending that
is being spent on these platforms should go to a
platform like Snap and therefore sort of that marginal ROI,
which a CFO will understand. But I think in the
industry we're all, you know, sort of hesitant to go
(24:38):
there because you know, for multiple reasons. That's one thing
that I would love for it to be a lot
more focused on.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Well.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I would say note to marketers, a GIT is spot on.
You do need the alternatives, and sure you said it.
Nobody's going to lose their job for doing that. We
had an expression in the industry for so long, and
you pick on Cincinnati because of the headquarters of Procter
and Gamble, and they were always thought of as the
largest marketer.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
In the world.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
They're not that anymore, but they're still very, very large.
But the joke used to be, or the saying used
to be no one in Cincinnati ever got fired for
buying this, except in today's environment, that is probably not
true any longer you said something earlier, we're in that
moment where I think, in the arc of my career,
(25:26):
and that's been fifty years, the three most important moments,
and you said it earlier, was the introduction of mobile
telephony at scale to the Internet, NAI being the thirst.
I mean, you can look at a lot of things
that happen in between, and they're all interesting, and they
all created industries. But if you think of the fundamental
(25:48):
shifts that have occurred, at least in my career, those
would be the three. And we're at the beginning. When
you're looking at it through that lens, that's got to
be a question for you, where's AI playing into the
overall story that we're telling.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
The starting point is it's all super exciting, right If
you and I were to start our careers today, we
would be like, oh my god, I mean, how lucky
are we to be looking at the next fifty years.
We're using AI obviously in our core platform, both for
the organic platform and Snapchat, and on the advertising front,
(26:23):
we're rolling out smart campaign solutions and then you know,
to our earlier conversation, when we think about launching the
ar glasses spectacles next year, we think it could be
one of the most powerful carriers for AI.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I think we've all now gotten conditioned in just the
last two years to thinking of text based prompts as
the way to engage with AI, and of course that's
clearly the case at the moment, and lots of platforms
are scaled up on the back of that. But you know,
you can think of sort of wearing glasses and walking
around and being aware of the spaces around you and
(27:00):
the information that has fed to you on the back
of it as a very compelling use case for AI,
probably a lot easier than typing into a chat box.
And then of course there are immediate opportunities that are
showing up that are exciting for us as a company.
We announced a partnership with Perplexity last month where Perplexity
(27:22):
is going to have an integration with Snapchat from early
next year that allows the nearly billin users on the
platform to be introduced to Perplexity. And you know, when
you think about it, there are a lot of AI
platforms building and making massive improvements in models but all
(27:43):
of them will need to go and acquire consumers and users,
and especially in a context where people are going to
be using search based conversational AI, our platform becomes a
very powerful mechanism for them to introduce them to new
use US and a partnership with Perplexity just gives you
(28:04):
a sense of how big that opportunity could be for
companies like Perplexity and for us as well.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Well.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
That bodes well for the market. At least we continue
to hear that maybe we're overheated. I was with one
of my very smart friends who writes one of the
most important newsletters in finance, and he talked about the
famous quote from Alan Greenspan years ago about irrational exuberance.
If you recall it right, He said, I know there's exuberance,
(28:30):
this person said, but I'm not sure I'm the one
who can determine if it's irrational. I said, well, great,
we're all looking for somebody who can to make sure
we're not caught up in irrational exuberance. Gee, if you
were a CMO right now, if you were somebody making
that decision along with us, we said, they're CFO. But
if you were a CMO right now, where would you
cut spend.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I think it's tough for cmos because there is so
much competition for attention and that is such a proliferation
of platforms. So it's hard to connect the dot between
the canvas of creativity right. I mean, there's so much
increase in velocity of content, including creative content. You are
(29:12):
trying to catch the attention of people whose attention is
sort of dissipating, and then you have so much choice.
A lot of the cmos that Michael, you and I
know are doing well. They're moving fast. I think they're
responding to the big technology shifts. I think the one
thing that I would urge cmos to do is there
is a new inertia in marketing organizations. I think there
(29:35):
was a period when over the last decade, with the
rise of the large tech platforms, where the competition was
between the tech platforms and traditional media broadcasters. I think
that conversation is over. You know, a lot of the
money is shifted from TV to digital, but there's now
a new inertia, and I think to where this conversation started,
(29:57):
that new inertia is very much built around meta and Google,
and I don't think there are too many market deals
who are challenging it and really thinking through are we
getting full value for the money that we are spending
on these platforms? And I think that would be the
one that I would urge cimos to do, is to
even when the cmos are innovative and they see the concentration,
(30:21):
they want to do things differently. I think there are
now large marketing organizations that are committed to the INOSHA,
and I would urge them to blow it up.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Good company will be right back after the break with
so much brand building energy shifting towards creators. You know,
(30:51):
we talked about retail media or commerce media the other
place that everybody is focusing and league lights are shining
on the creator economy. How do you at snap see
that brand creator audience triangle sort of not the Devil's triangle,
but a triangle.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
A lot of the companies that both you and I
are familiar with, Michael, have shifted a lot of their
marketing efforts to be centered around creators. And I think
the reason that they're doing it is because many of
these creators have authentic voices and they're able to tell
stories to their communities.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
They also have large.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Followerships, but they're able to tell their stories in an
authentic way that catches the attention of the followers. For us,
the place where we believe that can be very compelling
is the combination of creators and sponsored snaps. The medium
of sponsored snaps is built for an authentic, intimate conversation,
and when you introduce a creator into it, you're amplifying
(31:52):
by an order of magnitude the impact of the brand
to get the attention of people. Our spotlight, which is
our short form video farmats growing dramatically. We have snapstars
or growing. Some of the numbers are you know, two x,
three x overlastya. But the real opportunity where it's differentiated
in a world where it's all short form video and
(32:13):
it's the same creators. I think the combination of sponsor
snaps and creators offer something quite distinctive.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
In this fragmented media ecosystem at gee, what role should
snap and platforms more broadly play in rebuilding trust with
consumers and advertisers Because you said something earlier, authenticity, you
use the word it's so critical, especially in a world
of AI, especially in a world of are we seeing
(32:42):
what's real? Or you know you may not remember this,
but one of my favorite commercials was for one of
my favorite singers was Ella Fitzgerald, and there was a
great campaign years ago for a magnetic tape company Okay,
and Ella Fitzgerald could break a glass with her which
she hit a high olt, and so the campaign for
(33:03):
Maxell tape was a tape recording of Ella Fitzgerald and
her singing live the glass would break when she hit
a certain note. Could that happen if it was on tape?
And the jingle or the campaign said, is it Ella
or is it memorys Authenticity matters today to the consumer
(33:23):
and to the marketer.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
You answered your question, Michael.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
We're about to see a proliferation of content, and with
AI a lot of content where it's going to be
great for creativity. Some of it is going to be
on the bottom lines of you know, is it real
or is it fake? But what will still be of
tremendous value is authenticity. And I think that's the space
(33:48):
we are in. I think, going back to our history,
the focus on privacy, the focus on intimacy, I think
authentic relationships and authentic engagement will stand out in all
of the noise and proliferation that is about to explode
over the next couple of years.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Jeed, I agree with you on all fours. The basic
principles that Evan and Bobby brought when they started SNAP,
I think so are so relevant today that authenticity and trust,
and there's nothing more important to the consumer today and correspondingly,
nothing more important to the marketer to establish that trust
(34:25):
because none of us know what to believe anymore.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Absolutely, I agree.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
So the lightning round, I'm just going to throw some
things at you. But gee, what's your greatest professional fear.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I think it's of being irrelevant. I'm curious what's your
answer on that. I wonder whether it's something different. I thought,
that's all our common professional fear.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
I will answer you and say that is exactly my
answer in that. And somebody once asked me to rate
the three most important things to me using these three words,
and it was power, money, and autonomy. And I said,
I'm not going to answer the question that way. They said, well, wait,
it's my question. If you can't edit it, I said,
I just edited it and I'm not going to answer
(35:04):
it that way. If you change it, you could ask
me the question relevance, money, and autonomy, because I said
power is an amorphous word. To me, I don't know
what that means, but I do know what relevance means,
and that would be number one.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Powa comes from relevance, right.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I mean, I think if you have, if you have
something of value, if you're relevant, power comes from it.
And I think with so much change and all of
us have to keep learning to be relevant. So I
think that's definitely the fear of waking up and thinking,
am I going to be able to add value today?
Speaker 1 (35:34):
And am I relevant? Do I know enough?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
No?
Speaker 4 (35:36):
That's that's critical.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Ajee.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Was there a mentor early in your career that stands
out and was there a particular piece of advice I
gave you one earlier about somebody who told me make
sure you have that dialogue with your client, with your customers. Yeah,
was there somebody in your life that gave you that nugget?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Many many mentors, but I think the one consistent thing
is being there's always being a person who's stored up
in my life and I'm when I've done well, who
has kind of given me a tap on the shoulder
and said like, hey, you're doing well, but hold back.
There's so much more and you still have so much
(36:14):
to learn. And for me, the consistent theme of all
the great counsel that I've received from people is to
be open. Michael, I'm sure it's definitely true for you.
I'm sure it's true for a lot of people that
you work with every day. Is we've all been successful.
And the more time you spend getting more things right,
(36:34):
the more you start believing, you know you're going to
get the next one right. I think the reality is
the biggest gift is to be able to remain radically
committed to openness, right to knowing that there's a lot
of things that you don't know that you have to
keep learning. And that's been sort of always consistent, be
really open, irrespective of how muchief down or learned.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
I had a period of time in my life where
in three different raffles, you want all three over a
five year period, pick a ticket, just random, and the
prize is a car, and I won three and five years.
It became scandalous in southern California because I'd show up
these charity events and the auction would be there and
(37:18):
cell tickets, and everyone would look at me and say, oh,
you're here, You're going to win three times. So again
it was fun and it was wonderful, and it was,
you know, great luck. One of my kids said to
me at a point in his life, he said, well,
I'm not worried about this, Daddy, because I'm lucky like
you are. And I said, the first time you count
on your luck is when it doesn't show up. Yeah,
(37:39):
So it's to your point totally. If you've been successful,
you can't count on the continuation of that.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
If you get three out of three over five years,
I can imagine that you will get to a point
of thinking I should go for a fourth.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Why your kid was like, hey, I'm in a good place.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
When was the last time you saw a person or
a company in the industry do something clever that you
thought damn, I wish I'd have.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Thought of that almost every day. But the company that
kind of stands out more recently is on the Sneaker Company.
It's been amazing to see how they've built a brand,
built products, you in an industry that has such intense
competition and everything from you know, building products that are
different to marketing differently. I was walking around in New
(38:25):
York a couple of weeks ago and I saw these
long lines outside the ON store and I think I
was like, Wow, they've done so many things right to
get to this place.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
It's a great example to your point. I went to
the On store this past week in New York and
Damn there was a couple of shoes that I wanted.
They're sold out.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
The place is just on fire in an industry that's
seen so much innovation and it's so insanely competitive.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Absolutely for a new company to come in and build something,
it's pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
One more lightning round question, is there an industry buzzword
that you wish would disappear?
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Growth hacking.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I've never figured out what it is, and I know
it's come from the Valley and I've been around you know,
sort of companies that have used it quite a bit.
It always feels like it's just a tech forward way
of saying good marketing and a lot of word growth
hacking is about what good marketers have done for a while,
and I wish we would retire that word.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
I think that's a great one to put to rest.
I agree with you, Ajeep Mohan. I want to thank
you for taking the time to join good Company today.
I certainly enjoyed it. I hope you did, but I
am certain our listeners will.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I enjoyed the chot. Michael, thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
I'm Michael Casson. Thanks for listening to Good Company.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
Good Company is brought to you by Three C Ventures
and iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borgeropudo, our executive
producer and head of Content and Talent, and to Carl Catle,
executive producer at iHeart Podcasts. Episodes are pretty used and
edited by Mary Doo. Thanks for joining us. We'll see
you next time.
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
We are in some ways like a middle child. We
have much larger than the smaller platforms like Reddit and Pinterest,
much smaller than the large tech giants like Meta and Google.
What that really means is that we have the opportunity
to leverage the scale that we already have, but equally,
(00:23):
we're not large enough where we can leverage all of
it that makes startups really nimble and innovative and fast moving.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'm Michael Casson, and this is Good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports and technology.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(01:02):
up a lesson or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Welcome back to Good Company Today. I'm joined in the
studio by a very special guest, a Jeep Mohan, chief
business officer at Snap, where he's helping shape how the
next generation connects, communicates, and creates. Before Snap he scaled
hot Star into India's streaming giant and then led Meta
across one of the world's most dynamic markets. He's gone
(01:30):
from building from zero to operating at global scale to
now driving a challenger company that dares to stand apart,
one that's betting the future is an endless, scrolling but deeper,
more human connection. At Snap, a Jeet sits at the
intersection of product performance and culture, leading the ad business
while also guiding the engineering that powers monetization. A Jet
(01:54):
combines bold thinking with clear practical insight into how enduring
businesses are built. Get ready for a conversation about the
future of media leadership, ingenuity and seeing opportunities where others
see obstacles. Let's dive in Ajeet.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Welcome Creative here, Michael.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Your career, as I said, has taken you from building
hot Star in India into a streaming powerhouse, really starting
from you from scratch to leading Meta in one of
the fastest growing and most complex markets, and now to Snap,
a company that has built its reputation and candidly embodied
(02:34):
by the founder, Evan Spiegel, of being different.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Absolutely, and I do think I benefit from having been
around the world a bit, Michael, and also having spent
as you mentioned, quite a few years building from scratch
and working in technology and media for a while. And
by the way, I spent the first decade of my
career in consulting, looking at the industry from the outside,
(03:02):
and I think that was helpful as well. I do
think all of that has helped get to this moment
where I have this great opportunity to work with Evan
and Bobby in a company that they've built over the
last fourteen years. As you put it, to be Different,
I think, going back to the origin of the company,
they called it right, I think that there was need
(03:25):
for a platform that connected people, that could foster authentic relationships,
and one that bet on intimacy and the strength of
relationships and friendships rather than public affirmation. And we are
now nine hundred and thirty million Snapchatters around the world.
(03:45):
Evan mentioned as recently, we think we're going to cross
a bill in next year. So clearly being Different has
also created something that is of immense value to people
around the world, because it's not for lack of competition
that we're nearly a billion snapchat us.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
I've been accused of hyperbole more than once in my career.
But I'm going to say, as close as you are,
I don't exaggerate. I see the future. So with a
billion subscriber, with a billion folks on the platform, or
damn close to it, has that it's quite a growth story.
I've been fortunate a gee to have, you know, a
(04:25):
long history. Yeah, yeah, I met Evan, not right out
of the gate, but I met Evan probably a dozen
years ago. And Bobby, and you know, for me, as
somebody who's had the opportunity to advise and watch the
growth of the company through its ups and downs and pitfalls,
it's like raising children. To me, I look at companies
(04:45):
that I've had the good fortune of being involved with
from the inception. It's no different than raising our children.
And you know, I'm curious you had a startup mentality
and yet you know you're in the scale of giants
now with billions of people. The learning you got from
consulting obviously helped you, but the learning from a startup
mentality has to really play an important role totally.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And Michael, look, you've been a friend of the company
for a while and as you have said, we've been
through a lot I've been here three years, but when
you look at the history of the company, it's been
a strong innovator. It's created so many new formats that
went on to define the Norman industry. You know, we've
had lots of ups and downs as well. Evan puts
(05:30):
this eloquently that we are in some ways like a
middle child. We have much larger than the smaller platforms
like Reddit and Pinterest, much smaller than the large tech
giants like Meta and Google. What that really means is
that we have the opportunity to leverage the scale that
(05:51):
we already have, but equally, we're not large enough where
we can leverage all of which that makes startups really
nimble and innovative and fast moving. I think to your question, Michael,
I've seen that having built us outed from scratch, I
feel the same energy here even now. And you know,
I think it comes from two things, right. I think
we feel we have an alternative to offer to the
(06:14):
world quite different from Meta and Google, both to users
around the world in terms of what we stand for,
a more authentic, intimate experience that connects people and they're
happy when they're on Snapchat. That's the thing that keeps
coming out, ninety ninety five percent of snapchatters said they're
(06:35):
happy to use the platform and then to offer an
alternative to advertise us. Because I think you will agree, Michael,
and you've seen the industry all quite a bit. I
do think marketeers need a viable alternative to the two
largest platforms. I'm curious, what do you think about it?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
It's so interesting, gee, you know, I try to personalize
these conversations always, so when you talked about the middle child,
and I hope my sister isn't listening to this podcast,
but if you look up middle child in the dictionary,
you'll see my sister's picture, and she was always convinced.
And you know, on a personal note, I was the
youngest in a family with two older sisters, which might
(07:11):
explain to the audience my personality because my sisters would
always describe me as the sun Sun. So maybe that
says something. But truly, when you describe a middle child,
I'm so familiar with that mentality. And that's a great
way to look at snap because you're kind of in
be tween, you know. And yet the market does need alternatives.
(07:32):
When we realized, you know, back a few years ago,
when Amazon decided to break out their numbers for the
first time, and you realize that the amount of advertising
that was being sold on Amazon. What did that do?
That got everybody's attention, and that spawned this growth of
retail media and commerce media. So you see so much
money moving there. That's the other side of this is
(07:55):
you've got the platforms looking at generating revenue in an
entirely different way. That's a new challenge that didn't exist
three years ago or was just starting to I guess,
I guess it's fair to say it existed, but we
didn't realize the power of what commerce media or retail
media was going to be doing to advertising spend. Are
you seeing that impact at snap in terms of, you know, ge,
(08:18):
our money's going over here and over there, That money
is coming from somewhere.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I think there are three parts to this, Michael.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
One, we are seeing competition everywhere, right, I think marketers
have lots and lots of options. The other part of
it is many of these large commerce companies are partners
and clients of ours, and all of this shift from
offline to online commerce has also been a driver of
(08:44):
growth for us. And the third part of it is
retail media right, and there's a whole bunch of live
conversations underway in terms of how we can partner with
some of these companies to drive the next wave of
retail media. I think for us, it comes back to
a couple of things that makes us different. One, the
(09:05):
community that is there on Snapchat. Nearly seventy five percent
of thirteen to thirty four year olds in the largest
twenty twenty five economies around the world around snap I
think we are the platform for gen Z and millennials,
and irrespective of competition and what else is going on,
(09:26):
I think for companies that are looking to build the
brand for the future, we are the go to platform,
and we should be the go to platform. I think
the second one, Michael, and you know this really well.
The main reason why the platform is the snap is
on the messaging tap. And yet for the longest time
(09:46):
we did not allow ads or messaging, and I think
there was a disconnect between where the engagement energy of
the platform was and what we made available to the advertising. Yeah,
and you know we blew that artificial separation earlier this year.
You know, we didn't allow it for all the right reasons.
(10:07):
We were cautious. This was the sacred space right for
all the reasons that snapchat stands out as the place
for authentic, intimate conversations, we had to be careful. But
once we opened the floodgates, what we are realizing is
that not only is it powerful for marketers, consumers allowing
(10:28):
it as well. This intuitively something we understood, which is
that the conversation about brands and products and categories is
the conversation between friends. It's not distinct from the ongoing
conversation between friends and family totally.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And ajit.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Let me tell you that I can bring this to
the four and you'll have the opportunity coming up with
the Consumer Electronics events in Las Vegas in January to
meet the leadership from Unilever. But I love to tell
this story of the CEO of Unilever many years ago,
many years ago saying to me, and it's funny. I'll
(11:06):
try and get it right. He said, Michael. Now we
happen to be in can and this is probably close
to seventeen or eighteen years ago. He said, Michael, do
we need to pay attention to these friends? Stirs and
literally refer to it that way, And I said well,
this was Paul Pullman, who was then the CEO of Unilever.
(11:27):
I said, well, Paul, I had a mentor who taught
me something very important. When you have an opportunity to
have a conversation with your customer, you should take advantage
of it. Unilever at the time, they think the number
was one point six billion people a day globally touch
a Unilever project. I said, wouldn't it be amazing if
(11:50):
you could talk to all those people?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
He said, what do you mean?
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I said, well, you know you can't. Literally the impression
I was taught. If you had a choice of your feet,
your fat, actually your phone we didn't have email back,
then use your feet, get in front of the person,
Get in front of that client. You can't do that
with one point six billion people. But now you have
a platform or platforms where you can communicate directly to
your consumer. I rest my case. You're kind of saying
(12:15):
the same thing. I mean, obviously I wasn't prescient. It
was obvious to me and somebody not from marketing. Back
then it wasn't as obvious, but certainly today it is.
And your point, the consumer actually welcomed it, even though
we thought perhaps at snap you were doing the consumer
a favor.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
And your insighter is bang on, right, Michael, which is
it is the opportunity to talk to nearly a billion
users every day, and in the case of sponsored snaps,
which is what we call ads on the messaging tab,
you are doing it in an intimate setting and in
a place where Snapchat does expect to receive relevant, useful,
(12:57):
valuable information. So yes, I mean, now, looking back, it
should not have been a surprise, right that consumers would
love it. I saw a recent Cantor study that said
that Snapchat is number two now on platforms where consumers
want to see ads, right above TikTok. And I don't
think we were on the top five last year.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
That's market progress. I mean, that's those are strong numbers.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I think, yeah, exactly, And I think to your point,
I mean, what we are saying is there is a
shift from public scroll of in finite video to messaging
in a context where you're connected to people that matter
to you. And I think we're speaking to that shift,
and I think snapchatters are getting it and marketers are
(13:44):
getting it. But the other thing that selled Michael is
our ads have become more performant because of all the
investments we've made in the last three years to build
out our ad platform. It is not just the context
of where the ads show up. It is still about
personalization and scale and relevance. And I think the enormous
(14:04):
progress that we have made in the last three years
allows us to leverage this moment of sponsored snaps a
lot more than if we had launched it three years
ago or five years ago.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Absolutely, especially as you said, since the audience seems to
want it. Let me get very specific, ajee. Snap has
always gone against the grain of social media creativity, over broadcasting,
friends over followers. How do you keep that differentiation sharp
and relevant so you're not just another okay, not the other,
(14:38):
but just you're not another Again, back to the middle child.
Is there a play with hardware and that's a lob
for sure, But is there a play with hardware that
you can chat about of course that gives you that
special position?
Speaker 1 (14:54):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
And to where this conversation started as well, Michael, A
load of it goes to the founders. Evan and Bobby
are still in charge and are still deeply in the weeds,
and therefore a lot of the innovation comes from making
sure that we're being true to the original vision.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I think to your question of how do you make
sure that you're different and despite all of what is
going on in the world, how do we still make
sure that we are delivering a Snapchat experience that is
true to the original vision. The fact that the founders
are in charge and driving that innovation helps. Second, I
think the community expects it from us. If we're more
(15:35):
than nine hundred and thirty million snapchatters now, it's because
we've delivered on that uniqueness of the experience. Because people
around the world have lots of options, including when it
comes to choosing messaging platforms. Therefore, we feel the owners
to make sure that we are retaining the distinctive nature
(15:56):
of the experience. And then I think to your question
where all of this has said it. You know, if
we look back and think about it, a lot of
the innovation over the last fourteen years has been on
the mobile, right, And I think it's great that we're
almost a bill in users on the mobile, but we
know that the mobile, the smartphone, has a lot of
(16:18):
constraints and one of the areas that the company has
been investing in and we have invested more than three
billion dollars. Isn't building ar glasses with the idea of
if you take the original vision of connecting people deeply
to each other and allowing them to engage with each
(16:39):
other in their daily lives, and people who are close
to you friends and family, not you know, friends that
you barely know on the other side of the world,
but people that you're engaging with every day in your
daily life. We thought there's a tremendous opportunity to take
that vision to hardware. You know, what if you don't
have to look down on a smartphone for seven hours?
(17:01):
What if you could look up? What if you could
not be constrained by typing into something which is really
small but using vision and voice. That's sort of what
we've been building.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
You made us emotion that obviously our listeners can't see.
But when you talked about that, it showed how hard
habits are to break. And I experienced the glasses and
it's an amazing experience from my perspective as a consumer,
So I see where you're going. It's just interesting of
breaking that habit.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Look, I mean, both of us know the smartphone has
been around for a while, and you know, it's made
such a massive impact on all our lives. It's driven
so much innovation, it's built giant digital economies around the world.
But we know there is something that comes after this
that can be better, and our bet is on ar glasses.
We introduce a developer version of these glasses last year.
(17:56):
I think, Michael, you've been seeing the progressive those glasses
over the last few Coders developers are building lots and
lots of applications, but the core idea is you wear
these glasses, you're able to engage with the world outside.
It's aware of the physical space. With all of the
progress in AI, we also think that these glasses could
(18:19):
be a great carrier for AI where you're speaking to
the glasses which I have a spatial understanding what is
going on, and importantly, you can see through. And that
goes back to the original vision of the company that
how do you build technology that connects people that is
still rooted in the physical world, that is still rooted
in relationships that are important to people. And that's the
(18:42):
vision that we have.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
We're going to hit pause for a moment, but stay
with us after the break. We've got more insights to share.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
You're striking a chord with me that always resonates because
one of the tenants that three C is based on
is the convene part of our business, and that's bringing
people together.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah mean, but clearly good at it.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I mean, I think we were talking about the Can
dinner where I think you've booked a place for five
hundred people and the venue folks said, I think you
should book thousand, and I think more than thousand people
showed up.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I was there that night.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You've been great at convening people. But I mean you've
done that in terms of bringing people in the industry together.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
The one on one interaction, the in real life interaction,
you know, the offline if you will. But bringing it
together is what's so special ajit Uniquely in your role
as Chief Business Officer, there's been a restructuring of teams
with monetization Engineering, et cetera reporting directly to you, and
(19:53):
that makes a lot of sense because again your title
was expanded beyond just chief revenue Officer, it's chief business Officer.
I think I understand it, but I love your description
of the strategic rationale because I look at this through
the lens off times of what the job description is
of a particular person, and you know, I see it
(20:13):
through the lens of marketers often when you ask a
chief marketing officer what their actual job title is, because
sometimes it's Chief Marketing and Communications, sometimes it's Chief Marketing
and Growth, sometimes it's Chief marketing rarely and product. In
your case, under the CBO, you've got product and all
of that reporting to you.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
With only one goal, Michael, which is how do we
make sure that all of the parts of the organization
that serve advertisers, that serve marketers come together in a
unified way.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I think if you step back and kind of think
about us as a company nine thirty million users, but
our revenue is much smaller compared to the scale and
size of our platform and how consequential we are, especially
amongst the gen Z and millennial community around the world.
So there really is an organizational imperative to fuel revenue growth,
(21:16):
and we wanted to make sure that we are taking
away any impediment to it. So by bringing together the
ADS product, the ADS engineering, and the sales and OPS organizations,
we want to make sure that we are building our
AD platform and driving innovation quickly. Like the launch of
sponsored snaps and scaling it. We want to make sure
(21:37):
that what we're building in product is taken out to
the world quickly, and then we want to make sure
that everything that we hear from marketers from advertisers in
terms of what we need to do different and where
we can improve and where we can add more value,
that goes back to the people who are building the
ads product team quickly. So I think of it less
(21:59):
as a my title, but more the strategic choice that
the organization has made that this is important to us.
We are going to bring everything together to move fast
and drive value for our clients and partners.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
But why it matters, and particularly for our listeners A
ged It matters because there are not many people who
are qualified to do all of those things, and you're
up for that task. I'm going to switch to the
other side, to the marketers. At the end of the day,
marketers today are under more pressure than ever. Why procurement finance.
You know one of the chief marketing officers that I
(22:33):
have great respect for, Andrea Brimmer from Alibank. At a
conference recently, she brought her chief financial officer to the conference.
She was being interviewed and She looked out at the
audience and said, look, I know you all think you're
pitching me as the CMO, you're actually pitching Sally, who's
my chief financial officer and my partner driving ROI is critical.
(22:57):
Is there a metric you're in these conversation, Yes, with
your revenue side of your EBO title. Is there a
metric that you wish would disappear that cmos seem to
be still clinging to.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yes, But I want to address your that story, and
I think it's bang on. The CFO is a big
stakeholder now in deciding where the money is spent, and
rightly so. With all of the change, with all of
the proliferation of platforms and choices, and now automation driving
a lot of the agenda, it is not a surprise
(23:31):
that the CFO is almost a co equal or co
partner in marketing choices for me. I think the biggest
challenge that we have, Michael, and you've seen this is
we've reached a stage where Meta and Google are two
great companies, but we have now reached a stage where
no marketer gets fired for spending all of their money
(23:54):
on Meta and Google. And yet if I were the CFO,
I would really start challenging whether, even for all the
goodness in these platforms and their scale, are you getting
value for the last dollar that you're spending on Google
and Meta. You know, when we look at the numbers,
(24:16):
it's pretty clear that the last fifteen, twenty, twenty five
or thirty percent of the money that is spending that
is being spent on these platforms should go to a
platform like Snap and therefore sort of that marginal ROI,
which a CFO will understand. But I think in the
industry we're all, you know, sort of hesitant to go
(24:38):
there because you know, for multiple reasons. That's one thing
that I would love for it to be a lot
more focused on.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Well.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I would say note to marketers, a GIT is spot on.
You do need the alternatives, and sure you said it.
Nobody's going to lose their job for doing that. We
had an expression in the industry for so long, and
you pick on Cincinnati because of the headquarters of Procter
and Gamble, and they were always thought of as the
largest marketer.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
In the world.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
They're not that anymore, but they're still very, very large.
But the joke used to be, or the saying used
to be no one in Cincinnati ever got fired for
buying this, except in today's environment, that is probably not
true any longer you said something earlier, we're in that
moment where I think, in the arc of my career,
(25:26):
and that's been fifty years, the three most important moments,
and you said it earlier, was the introduction of mobile
telephony at scale to the Internet, NAI being the thirst.
I mean, you can look at a lot of things
that happen in between, and they're all interesting, and they
all created industries. But if you think of the fundamental
(25:48):
shifts that have occurred, at least in my career, those
would be the three. And we're at the beginning. When
you're looking at it through that lens, that's got to
be a question for you, where's AI playing into the
overall story that we're telling.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
The starting point is it's all super exciting, right If
you and I were to start our careers today, we
would be like, oh my god, I mean, how lucky
are we to be looking at the next fifty years.
We're using AI obviously in our core platform, both for
the organic platform and Snapchat, and on the advertising front,
(26:23):
we're rolling out smart campaign solutions and then you know,
to our earlier conversation, when we think about launching the
ar glasses spectacles next year, we think it could be
one of the most powerful carriers for AI.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I think we've all now gotten conditioned in just the
last two years to thinking of text based prompts as
the way to engage with AI, and of course that's
clearly the case at the moment, and lots of platforms
are scaled up on the back of that. But you know,
you can think of sort of wearing glasses and walking
around and being aware of the spaces around you and
(27:00):
the information that has fed to you on the back
of it as a very compelling use case for AI,
probably a lot easier than typing into a chat box.
And then of course there are immediate opportunities that are
showing up that are exciting for us as a company.
We announced a partnership with Perplexity last month where Perplexity
(27:22):
is going to have an integration with Snapchat from early
next year that allows the nearly billin users on the
platform to be introduced to Perplexity. And you know, when
you think about it, there are a lot of AI
platforms building and making massive improvements in models but all
(27:43):
of them will need to go and acquire consumers and users,
and especially in a context where people are going to
be using search based conversational AI, our platform becomes a
very powerful mechanism for them to introduce them to new
use US and a partnership with Perplexity just gives you
(28:04):
a sense of how big that opportunity could be for
companies like Perplexity and for us as well.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Well.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
That bodes well for the market. At least we continue
to hear that maybe we're overheated. I was with one
of my very smart friends who writes one of the
most important newsletters in finance, and he talked about the
famous quote from Alan Greenspan years ago about irrational exuberance.
If you recall it right, He said, I know there's exuberance,
(28:30):
this person said, but I'm not sure I'm the one
who can determine if it's irrational. I said, well, great,
we're all looking for somebody who can to make sure
we're not caught up in irrational exuberance. Gee, if you
were a CMO right now, if you were somebody making
that decision along with us, we said, they're CFO. But
if you were a CMO right now, where would you
cut spend.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I think it's tough for cmos because there is so
much competition for attention and that is such a proliferation
of platforms. So it's hard to connect the dot between
the canvas of creativity right. I mean, there's so much
increase in velocity of content, including creative content. You are
(29:12):
trying to catch the attention of people whose attention is
sort of dissipating, and then you have so much choice.
A lot of the cmos that Michael, you and I
know are doing well. They're moving fast. I think they're
responding to the big technology shifts. I think the one
thing that I would urge cmos to do is there
is a new inertia in marketing organizations. I think there
(29:35):
was a period when over the last decade, with the
rise of the large tech platforms, where the competition was
between the tech platforms and traditional media broadcasters. I think
that conversation is over. You know, a lot of the
money is shifted from TV to digital, but there's now
a new inertia, and I think to where this conversation started,
(29:57):
that new inertia is very much built around meta and Google,
and I don't think there are too many market deals
who are challenging it and really thinking through are we
getting full value for the money that we are spending
on these platforms? And I think that would be the
one that I would urge cimos to do, is to
even when the cmos are innovative and they see the concentration,
(30:21):
they want to do things differently. I think there are
now large marketing organizations that are committed to the INOSHA,
and I would urge them to blow it up.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Good company will be right back after the break with
so much brand building energy shifting towards creators. You know,
(30:51):
we talked about retail media or commerce media the other
place that everybody is focusing and league lights are shining
on the creator economy. How do you at snap see
that brand creator audience triangle sort of not the Devil's triangle,
but a triangle.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
A lot of the companies that both you and I
are familiar with, Michael, have shifted a lot of their
marketing efforts to be centered around creators. And I think
the reason that they're doing it is because many of
these creators have authentic voices and they're able to tell
stories to their communities.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
They also have large.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Followerships, but they're able to tell their stories in an
authentic way that catches the attention of the followers. For us,
the place where we believe that can be very compelling
is the combination of creators and sponsored snaps. The medium
of sponsored snaps is built for an authentic, intimate conversation,
and when you introduce a creator into it, you're amplifying
(31:52):
by an order of magnitude the impact of the brand
to get the attention of people. Our spotlight, which is
our short form video farmats growing dramatically. We have snapstars
or growing. Some of the numbers are you know, two x,
three x overlastya. But the real opportunity where it's differentiated
in a world where it's all short form video and
(32:13):
it's the same creators. I think the combination of sponsor
snaps and creators offer something quite distinctive.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
In this fragmented media ecosystem at gee, what role should
snap and platforms more broadly play in rebuilding trust with
consumers and advertisers Because you said something earlier, authenticity, you
use the word it's so critical, especially in a world
of AI, especially in a world of are we seeing
(32:42):
what's real? Or you know you may not remember this,
but one of my favorite commercials was for one of
my favorite singers was Ella Fitzgerald, and there was a
great campaign years ago for a magnetic tape company Okay,
and Ella Fitzgerald could break a glass with her which
she hit a high olt, and so the campaign for
(33:03):
Maxell tape was a tape recording of Ella Fitzgerald and
her singing live the glass would break when she hit
a certain note. Could that happen if it was on tape?
And the jingle or the campaign said, is it Ella
or is it memorys Authenticity matters today to the consumer
(33:23):
and to the marketer.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
You answered your question, Michael.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
We're about to see a proliferation of content, and with
AI a lot of content where it's going to be
great for creativity. Some of it is going to be
on the bottom lines of you know, is it real
or is it fake? But what will still be of
tremendous value is authenticity. And I think that's the space
(33:48):
we are in. I think, going back to our history,
the focus on privacy, the focus on intimacy, I think
authentic relationships and authentic engagement will stand out in all
of the noise and proliferation that is about to explode
over the next couple of years.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Jeed, I agree with you on all fours. The basic
principles that Evan and Bobby brought when they started SNAP,
I think so are so relevant today that authenticity and trust,
and there's nothing more important to the consumer today and correspondingly,
nothing more important to the marketer to establish that trust
(34:25):
because none of us know what to believe anymore.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Absolutely, I agree.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
So the lightning round, I'm just going to throw some
things at you. But gee, what's your greatest professional fear.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I think it's of being irrelevant. I'm curious what's your
answer on that. I wonder whether it's something different. I thought,
that's all our common professional fear.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
I will answer you and say that is exactly my
answer in that. And somebody once asked me to rate
the three most important things to me using these three words,
and it was power, money, and autonomy. And I said,
I'm not going to answer the question that way. They said, well, wait,
it's my question. If you can't edit it, I said,
I just edited it and I'm not going to answer
(35:04):
it that way. If you change it, you could ask
me the question relevance, money, and autonomy, because I said
power is an amorphous word. To me, I don't know
what that means, but I do know what relevance means,
and that would be number one.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Powa comes from relevance, right.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I mean, I think if you have, if you have
something of value, if you're relevant, power comes from it.
And I think with so much change and all of
us have to keep learning to be relevant. So I
think that's definitely the fear of waking up and thinking,
am I going to be able to add value today?
Speaker 1 (35:34):
And am I relevant? Do I know enough?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
No?
Speaker 4 (35:36):
That's that's critical.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Ajee.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Was there a mentor early in your career that stands
out and was there a particular piece of advice I
gave you one earlier about somebody who told me make
sure you have that dialogue with your client, with your customers. Yeah,
was there somebody in your life that gave you that nugget?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Many many mentors, but I think the one consistent thing
is being there's always being a person who's stored up
in my life and I'm when I've done well, who
has kind of given me a tap on the shoulder
and said like, hey, you're doing well, but hold back.
There's so much more and you still have so much
(36:14):
to learn. And for me, the consistent theme of all
the great counsel that I've received from people is to
be open. Michael, I'm sure it's definitely true for you.
I'm sure it's true for a lot of people that
you work with every day. Is we've all been successful.
And the more time you spend getting more things right,
(36:34):
the more you start believing, you know you're going to
get the next one right. I think the reality is
the biggest gift is to be able to remain radically
committed to openness, right to knowing that there's a lot
of things that you don't know that you have to
keep learning. And that's been sort of always consistent, be
really open, irrespective of how muchief down or learned.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
I had a period of time in my life where
in three different raffles, you want all three over a
five year period, pick a ticket, just random, and the
prize is a car, and I won three and five years.
It became scandalous in southern California because I'd show up
these charity events and the auction would be there and
(37:18):
cell tickets, and everyone would look at me and say, oh,
you're here, You're going to win three times. So again
it was fun and it was wonderful, and it was,
you know, great luck. One of my kids said to
me at a point in his life, he said, well,
I'm not worried about this, Daddy, because I'm lucky like
you are. And I said, the first time you count
on your luck is when it doesn't show up. Yeah,
(37:39):
So it's to your point totally. If you've been successful,
you can't count on the continuation of that.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
If you get three out of three over five years,
I can imagine that you will get to a point
of thinking I should go for a fourth.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Why your kid was like, hey, I'm in a good place.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
When was the last time you saw a person or
a company in the industry do something clever that you
thought damn, I wish I'd have.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Thought of that almost every day. But the company that
kind of stands out more recently is on the Sneaker Company.
It's been amazing to see how they've built a brand,
built products, you in an industry that has such intense
competition and everything from you know, building products that are
different to marketing differently. I was walking around in New
(38:25):
York a couple of weeks ago and I saw these
long lines outside the ON store and I think I
was like, Wow, they've done so many things right to
get to this place.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
It's a great example to your point. I went to
the On store this past week in New York and
Damn there was a couple of shoes that I wanted.
They're sold out.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
The place is just on fire in an industry that's
seen so much innovation and it's so insanely competitive.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Absolutely for a new company to come in and build something,
it's pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
One more lightning round question, is there an industry buzzword
that you wish would disappear?
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Growth hacking.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I've never figured out what it is, and I know
it's come from the Valley and I've been around you know,
sort of companies that have used it quite a bit.
It always feels like it's just a tech forward way
of saying good marketing and a lot of word growth
hacking is about what good marketers have done for a while,
and I wish we would retire that word.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
I think that's a great one to put to rest.
I agree with you, Ajeep Mohan. I want to thank
you for taking the time to join good Company today.
I certainly enjoyed it. I hope you did, but I
am certain our listeners will.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I enjoyed the chot. Michael, thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
I'm Michael Casson. Thanks for listening to Good Company.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
Good Company is brought to you by Three C Ventures
and iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borgeropudo, our executive
producer and head of Content and Talent, and to Carl Catle,
executive producer at iHeart Podcasts. Episodes are pretty used and
edited by Mary Doo. Thanks for joining us. We'll see
you next time.
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