June 3, 2026 • 32 mins
As media, commerce and technology converge, Nili Klenoff is helping shape one of the most consequential shifts in modern marketing. She joins Michael Kassan to explore commerce media, AI-powered decision-making, consumer trust, and the challenge of driving innovation at global scale, offering a rare look inside the systems increasingly influencing how people discover, choose and buy.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Media is proliferated. Anybody with a channel can utilize that,
sell it right, and deliver content. It doesn't mean that
content is going to be relevant for that individual consumer.
It doesn't mean that it's going to guide the consumer
and influence the consumer to take the next decision in
the life stage. And that's where the role of commerce
(00:25):
media becomes really important.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm Michael Cassen, and this is good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports, and technologies.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(00:56):
up a listen or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good, Welcome back to Good Company.
For years, marketing lived at a distance from the moment
that mattered most. It shaped perception, built affinity, and told stories,
hoping those efforts eventually translate into action down the line.
(01:17):
But that distance is shrinking. Influence is moving closer to
the point of decision closer to the transaction itself, and
as that happens, the boundaries between media, commerce, payments, and
technology are starting to blur. That's what makes this conversation
so timely. Neelie Klenoff sits right at the center of
(01:38):
that shift, that MasterCard. She's helping build what's becoming one
of the most consequential spaces in marketing. Commerce media not
as a buzzword, but as a system that connects engagement,
decision making, and growth. What makes Neelie's perspective stand out
is that she didn't arrive here from the outside. She
spent years inside the machinery across payments, product security, and innovation,
(02:04):
understanding how these systems actually work. So when she talks
about marketing's future, it's grounded in something much deeper than
the surface trend. Today, we're going to unpack what commerce
media is and what it isn't, why so many companies
are moving into it, and how it begins to change
as AI takes on a bigger role in decision making.
(02:26):
We'll also get into trust measurement and what it takes
to build something new inside a company operating at global scale. Neali,
it's great to have you here. Welcome to good company.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So Michael, first of all, it's been great getting to
know you and coming into this industry with a different
perspective as you outlined. With that perspective, I think one
of the things that's really been eye opening for me
is the very real conversations I'm hearing from brands, from
advertisers who are facing increase press sure to do more
(03:01):
with less or do more with the same budget they
had the year before, and that is translating into this,
I would say, just really rigorous focus on outcomes, right,
and not just trading on impressions, but being able to
demonstrate the efficacy the financial benefits in kind of very
(03:22):
clear metrics associated with their marketing activities. And so when
you take that and you start to connect that to
the commerce journey and how all of that is shifting, right,
We're kind of moving into this world where you've got,
you know, the commerce journey being increasingly fragmented, consumers moving
(03:42):
into new channels, the funnel itself flattening, right. I think
you know where signal and outcome come together is the
thing that's becoming i think, increasingly critical and nearly.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
It's so interesting because you're talking about words that traditionally
we're buzzwords and now are anything but signal. I mean,
we use that word in such a different way today
and importantly, and what's so interesting, As we've said, you've
spent years working underneath the consumer experience layer. Now you're
(04:18):
kind of front and center. You're in front of the
camera now in a different way literally and figuratively. Has
this journey changed your definition or forced all of us
to look at marketing as something different.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
From sitting behind the scenes. I've had an upfront look
into all the key aspects that I think meet for
a trusted and really impactful system. There are billions of
transactions one hundred and seventy five billion in twenty twenty
five alone that cross the MasterCard network and we are
looking at those those are coming from different geographies, channels
(04:52):
and merchants to give us this holistic look and view
of different patterns of behavior. And that actually brings me
to the second quot right, which is I've also had
a front row seat into how we design these systems
with trust at the forefront, right, Trust and privacy consent right,
and that is really woven into the fabric actually how
(05:12):
we bring all of our products to market, So everything
from how the data itself is protected, how it's stored,
principles around integrity and ethics. I mean, we do rigorous
bias testing right to make sure that when we're building algorithms,
you know, propensity, you know models on top of the
data that we're making sure that you know, we are
getting to the highest integrity outputs and kind of eliminating
(05:35):
bias and things like that. And so you know, to
the point around that view, right and having that perspective
where that's really given you know, me as I entered
this kind of media and advertising space is I think
a lot of confidence that you know, there's a lot
there that needs to be true right for everyone to
(05:56):
trust ultimately how these systems come to market right, and
how they can utilize these systems for value creations. So
I think that that behind the scenes look has given
me one an appreciation for the stuff that has to
be there, but also the questions I think as an
industry we have to be asking of each other and
all of our partners to make sure that all of
(06:18):
those pieces are in place.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Let's try and unpack what commerce media is and perhaps
what it isn't so first question is do you think
the narrative is getting ahead of the reality on commerce
media in general? That's question number one. And with everybody
and everyone with data and distribution now calling themselves a
(06:42):
media network, what separates a platform that delivers messages from
one that can influence outcomes? So there's two things there.
You know, has the narrative of commerce media gotten ahead
of the reality and is everybody entitled to call them
media network when some are really, as I said, delivering
(07:03):
messages and other delivering outcomes.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I'm going to take this one head on and maybe
I'll say something a little bit provocative there, Michael, go
for it. So look, I think that for you know,
a lot of players, if you don't have the scale,
the scale of the data, the scale of the reach
the technology, the narrative could get ahead of the reality.
Certainly for us, I mean we're there, right. I mean
(07:28):
I mentioned, you know before the transaction, you know scale
that we have the ability to use the insights to
be able to personalize the right message. I like to say,
we're not guessing, Michael that you're a coffee lover. We
know you're a coffee lover because we can see that
you bought coffee every day, right, and so we can
close the loop on attribution and ultimately, you know, back
(07:51):
to the question on is the narrative ahead of the reality,
I would say, in our case, the reality is there.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It's really deterministic in terms of its ability to use
signals to inform personalization and then be able to tie
the ad exposure ultimately to the sale. Now to your
next question, right, what separates you know, the message you know,
from the outcome those who are using their channels for
distribution versus those who are using it to really drive
(08:18):
and influence what happens at the back end. What I
would say is, I think this is where again the
deterministic signals become so important. Media is proliferated. Anybody with
a channel can utilize that, sell it, right, and you know,
deliver content. It doesn't mean that that content is going
to be relevant for that individual consumer. It doesn't mean
(08:41):
that it's going to guide the consumer and influence the
consumer to take the next decision in the life stage.
And I think again that's where the role of converce
media becomes really important because the insights with the data
help give the brand a sense for where is the
consumer in this channel, where are they journey, what's the
right message, what's the best way to reach them? And
(09:03):
so it can guide the intelligence, it can guide the
incentives right and ultimately the outcomes by providing that context.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
So let's talk about this a little further. Neally, you've
described MasterCard as both a network and a company that's
actually building or actively building one. What does that distinction
mean in practice to you?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So we're network, right, as you said, Michael, that's our legacy,
that's our history. We connect consumers to merchants through their
banks who provide their credit cards, right, And that is
a system that works all around the world.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
And it's a network that consumers are connected. And go
back to that astounding number, one hundred and seventy five
billion transactions.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
That's right, one hundred and seventy five billion transactions. But
there's another aspect to that, which is the interoperability, the
scale and interoperability. What do I mean by that? What
I mean by that is if you take your card
or your digital wallet and you tap to pay for
your cup of coffee in the morning in the US,
and then a week later you find yourself in the
(10:14):
London tube and you're paying for your train ticket. It's
going to work the same way everywhere. It's always about
secure and seamless consumer experiences. So we are now taking
that philosophy, that framework, and we're extending it now into
the media and advertising space. The players might look a
(10:34):
little bit different, obviously, there are still consumers, now there's brands,
and now there's publishers, but the principles stay the same
in terms of delivering irrelevant and seamless and secure consumer experience.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Wall Street might look at this and say, MasterCards move
in this space looks like an expansion from the outside,
But from your perspective, I would think you'd think this
is a very strategic almost not an insight, but an
inside move and an inevitable.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Evolution one hundred percent. So we built this business off
of the back of another business that we've had for
ten years, serving personalized card linked offers. And what were
we doing. We were going around the world, we were
sourcing incentives and discounts from brands, we were using our
data and our system to personalize those using the insights
from the data, and then we were distributing those to
(11:24):
consumers in a network of publishing channels. Albeit largely banks,
because the program itself was really positioned more as a
loyalty program for banks to give to their consumers versus
an advertising and media solution to provide value to advertisers
and help them connect more deeply with consumers. And that
(11:46):
was the realization along the way was actually we had
an advertising platform, right. We had all of the components
of ability to reach brands, an entire ad operations function
working with advertisers directly to set up campaigns in line
with their objectives, the distribution of the content, and then
the proof at the back end, right. And so for us,
(12:06):
this was truly, as you said, it just an evolution
of the business that we were running into something that
could be a much bigger value proposition.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Well, it goes back in my mind to the earliest
days of statement stuffers with your credit card bill. Okay,
I mean, if we could really bring it back to
where I started before credit cards. But the idea of
a statement stuffer makes a lot of sense, and the
idea of that move for MasterCard obviously makes a lot
of sense. A good company will be right back after
(12:37):
the break. One thing MasterCard I think owns in this
marketplace is understanding how to build platforms, and I'm going
(12:58):
to tie this to marketing nearly in a way that
might surprise you. One of the examples I've used over
the last twenty plus years, and I might be wrong
on my timing, but I don't think i'm wrong by
much is MasterCard had a campaign that used a word,
and that word was priceless, and that is still very
much a part of the DNA of MasterCard in platform
(13:21):
because you took as a marketer the word priceless or
the concept of priceless and made it a platform. So
moves like this make a lot of sense for MasterCard.
And I know that's a non sequitor to what we're
talking about in commerce media, but it really isn't. Because
you're building a platform as you did with a word
and a concept. You're building a platform around commerce media.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And isn't Michael, that what we all strive for is
a fully threaded system that allows whomever it is. Whether
it's a brand, right of course, MasterCard is a brand
to deliver value through a marketing campaign, but that's also
built on the foundation of a broader platform, right, whether
(14:08):
that's a technical platform, a set of products, data capabilities,
it's got to be fully stitched together to actually deliver
the value to the end consumer, which I think is
what we're all trying to do, to.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Deliver a priceless experience. You see that, because value is
a funny word. I use this the other day. Nearly.
One of my favorite Oscar Wild quotes is a bit obscure.
It's the definition of a cynic. The definition of a cynic,
per Oscar Wild, is someone who knows the price of
everything and the value of nothing. Okay, I try to
(14:41):
not be cynical. I try to look at the light
side and say, this is priceless. So there you go. Nearly,
MasterCard operates again. That one hundred and seventy five billion
transaction number is astounding, even in a world of trillion
dollar companies. You think of that number and you stand back,
and you span, as you said, industries and geographies. What
(15:04):
does that vantage point allow you to understand about behaviors
Number one that others might miss? And I know the
example of my buying a coffee on the tube and
my buying a coffee at the local coffee shop in
New York or LA. With that level of access and information,
how do you decide where to show up, and I
guess equally is important, you know, not to show up.
(15:27):
I get accused sometimes in the industry of showing up
at the opening of an envelope. I presume you're a
little more discriminating than I am. So with that level
of access, that was a joke to our listeners. By
the way, hopefully they're laughing as they listen to us
neely we are anyway. Indeed, you know, if I'm a marketer,
(15:48):
I guess we're all marketers. This is the third piece
of that question. What becomes possible working with MasterCard that
wouldn't be achievable through a single retailer or platform because
you bring so much together. So I've given you again
a compound question.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
All right, three part question. I'm going to answer each part.
So the unique vantage point I shared the example around
coffee lovers, I'll kind of broaden that. It's really, I
think two things, right. It's about using the data for
the purposes of personalizing the content or ensuring it's really
relevant to the consumer, and then of course being able
(16:24):
to close the loop from an attribution standpoint. Now on
the personalization side, it's about audiences, right, and really having
confidence in audiences like the coffee lover, but also being
able to do some pattern recognition. So, for example, if
we start to see a consumer buying products in let's
just say, like the home improvement area, well that's giving
(16:44):
us really helpful signals to indicate where the consumer is, right,
maybe they've just moved into a home, maybe they're renovating.
But that allows us to then leverage that intelligence to
deliver more relevant content for that consumer in a categories.
So that's kind of one aspect. The attribution is another one.
(17:05):
Over eighty percent of transactions still take place in store,
yet most media spend is digital and it's taking place
in digital channels right, and so the value of commerce media,
and one of the reasons why we even got into
this space is the ability to bridge between the channels,
the ability to connect the ad exposure that happened in
(17:25):
a digital channel to the actual transaction. You can't over
interpret proof. So that's answered to question.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
One and a good answer all right, answered.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
A question too, where should brands show up? How do
we think about that. There's a lot of at fraud
out there, there's a lot of inefficient spend out there,
and so the approach that we've taken is to work
with premium publishers. Typically these are publishers who have a
log in, so it's a really protected environment. The consumers
maybe stored their card on file with that merchant because
(17:58):
they're a habitual user of that merchant, and again merchant here,
you know, I liken that to the publisher. Right. We're
taking a really curated approach in terms of the brands
that we work with, with the guiding principle of meet
the consumer where they are right, whether that's at you know,
their favorite brands to transact with, you know, their streaming providers,
(18:18):
their right share providers, their agentic providers, all eyed in store,
meet the consumer where they are right, and then deliver
the relevant content in that channel.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
But nearly I'm going to stop you there for a second,
because we're entering a phase where decisions are increasingly mediated
by systems. You just said it, Meet the agent. If
we're in an agentic situation, meet the agent where the
agent is number one. When you're no longer speaking only
to a human decision maker, that's got to change what's
happening again, Potentially agentic to agentic, and if an algorithm
(18:53):
is actually making a purchase decision. What does it take
for a brand to be selected? I always thought when
and RFID and tags, you know, if our clothing were
tagged in a way, I always thought when I opened
a closet, that jacket screaming out to me, choose me,
Choose me, Like do your clothes feel left out when
(19:15):
you don't choose them? I'm getting way down the trench here.
But when it's not your decision or somebody else's decision,
but authentic to agentic, how do I stand out in
that crowd?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
That is the question. By the way, the clothing question
is also a question I have because I can no
longer see inside my own closet. So maybe somebody could
build you know, whether it's RFID or some other solutions,
so that I can actually know what's in there. Good
point on Agentic. This is a question on everybody's minds
right now, right Brands need to be legible to machines.
(19:47):
You're going to have these inter connections happening. Humans interacting
with agents, agents interacting with agents. I believe we will
see a world where you have agents negotiating discounts, you know,
with brands on consumers behalf applying loyalty points, and of
(20:07):
course moving into autonomous buying, which as master Kark we're
at the forefront of that is a new world right
that we are entering into. That said, the way I
look at it is there is kind of two aspects.
There's agentic marketing and agenic commerce. Agentic marketing is all
about how does the brand become discoverable. Agentic commerce is
all about what happens and how do you ensure that
(20:30):
it's safe and secure when the agent is making the payment?
And I think it's the insights. Commerce media is just
incredibly well served to sit in the pocket in between
to bridge those two things together, to bring the context
to guide the decision making and the relevance in the
channel regardless of who makes the payment, whether it's the
agent or the consumer.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
And because you said this at the very very beginning
of our conversation, and we can't stress it enough, trust
becomes such an important aspect of that and what you
just said allows you, as a consumer, I know I
trust MasterCard because I've been trusting MasterCard forever, so I
will trust MasterCard in this context. And at least that's
(21:13):
half the battle right there. So you're demonstrating what is
I think still the most important thing to consumers in
this context will be trust because you're kind of closing
your eyes, holding your nose and taking a dive sometimes
and you've got to know that you're going to land
on your feet.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
You're totally right. There is kind of two ways to
look at this, right, there is the innovation train and
that's happening right. There is many companies, MasterCard included, who
are working to enable autonomous buying agents. And then there's
the consumer trust right, trusting that that agent is going
to buy the right thing on their behalf right and
(21:49):
not make a mistake. And part of what we're doing
as a company is making sure that we have the
right governance and frameworks in place so that if the
agent did make a miss and they bought you the
red sweater instead of the blue sweater, that you've got
the right principles in place to help govern how do
you manage that dispute? And so that's kind of one
really big aspect I think for marketers. One, it's important
(22:14):
to appreciate that I do think that that's going to
take time. I think it's going to take time for
consumers to trust that I think the key question that
we're all standing in is in this environment, how do
brands ensure that they are discoverable? And then if the
exposure of the brand and that environment actually translated to
a sale, how do you link those two? And again,
(22:36):
to me, that's where the role of commerce media players
come increasingly important. The ability to be able to close
the loop from an attribution standpoint, whether human made the
purchase or the agent.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And you know, look, we talked about this at the
outset because I think you talked about outcomes and trust
and signals as important words in our conversation. Nearly measurement outcomes.
Commerce media promises greater accountability obviously a closer tie between
the spend and the outcome. If you were designing a
(23:11):
scorecard that aligns marketing, finance, and leadership, because you've lived
across all three, because I want to get into leadership
in a moment, what would it include again, marketing, finance
and leadership as a scorecard. You know the dashboard that
someone's going to say, I got the outcome. This is
my measurement tool. I got the outcome I was looking for.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Look, I think every business is different. I will also
say that more measurement doesn't automatically mean better measurement, and
so the right measurement, the right signals, the right proof
points that can help inform decision making. To me is
the key right because listen, increasingly our marketing teams, our
(23:53):
cmos need to prove value back to their CFOs, and
their CFOs are putting pressure on them, and so having
the right scorecard with the right level of granularity and
insight that also stitches insights together across channels to provide
a holistic picture of how campaigns are performing, how the
consumer is behaving, how things are shifting. To me, that's
(24:17):
the goal.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
You touched on something that I've subscribed to for a
long time, which is Marketers Publisher. Everybody in business today
is tired of point solutions. They want end to end solutions,
and what you just talked about was stitching it together
to give an end to end so I can see
the whole picture on whatever dashboard I may have. I
(24:39):
get that into end solutions, good company will be right
back after the break. Neially, I'm going to switch for
(25:05):
a second because this gets to be the fun part
I want to talk about you. You are effectively building
a new business inside a very very established company. I
think you coined a word. Internally. I've heard a rumor
about as opposed to be an entrepreneur, an entrepreneur from
building from within. What's different about that? I'm curious when
(25:28):
you're doing it from within a company the size of
MasterCard as opposed to you know, two folks in a
garage with the you know, baling wire and tape putting
something together.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
So I have been married to an entrepreneur my entire
adult life, and what I can tell you is there
are a lot of actual similarities between what you know
your non corporate entrepreneur is doing and your corporate entrepreneur.
And then there are some key differences I'll share first
and foremost similarities. I mean, look, you know you're doing
(25:58):
the same things. You're designing strategy, right, you need buying
from your investors, right, and your investors you know it
may come with different lenses, right, Those who are the visionaries,
those who are your CFO types who want to understand
when are they going to get their payback and what
does that look like? And when are we going to
break even? And so kind of managing those make that's consistent.
(26:21):
Figuring out, how do you get scrappy, how do you
de risk as you go right so that you can
validate that hey, we're on the right track, or pivot
if needed to. Those are the things that are all consistent.
I think some of the differences are when you're part
of a large organization, you have the benefit of the scale, right,
(26:41):
the access to the funds, the ability to deploy resources, sales, teams, partnerships, teams,
platforms around the world at your fingertips. But that also
comes with a whole lot of bringing everybody along on
the journey, right. So there's a whole lot of stakeholder
management right and education, especially when you're entering a brand
(27:03):
new space like media and advertising. And so that's kind
of the journey that I've been on, which is doing
all the things that a CEO of a startup is
trying to do right, like get the thing going, build
the proof points, get the product and tech out to market,
get the customer feedback right, and you use that to
keep iterating while also managing all of the stakeholders and
(27:25):
removing the blockers right. And the blockers can come from
any which.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Watch it so neely, I'm going to test our audience
and you a little. There was a series of movies
in the nineteen thirties called the Andy Hardy Movies, and
the Andy Hardy Movies starred Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland.
Okay names people that are listening to this podcast may
or may not know, but I'm going to go with it.
(27:50):
But what that was was about kids working in a
barn and putting on a play. And the line was,
mom's got drapes, Let's put on a play because that
way you had curtains. Now, Neily, I'm going to talk
about your background because you didn't start in the credit
card business. You started your career as an actress and
you shared that with me, so I'm sharing that with
(28:11):
the world. Now. Has that prepared you for this entrepreneurial
moment in your life? Or should we just break into
song and dance? You know I'd like to do that.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Oh my goodness, I realized you were going to go there, Michael,
But okay, bring it on. Yes, you are correct. I
did musicals professionally, something I'd pursued for a really long time,
travel the country doing lots of different shows.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So you understand summer stock when I use that exempt.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
How many summer stocks did I do? Back to back
shows every two to three weeks, performing a new role,
learning a new script. It was a whole lot of
fun when I was a lot younger. I actually really
do think it helped me, and I think I appreciate
that so much more now as a more seasoned executive
than I did when I transitioned from the world of
acting into the world of financial services, payments, and product
(29:01):
The ability to first and foremost be empathetic, I guess
an actor, you need to be deeply empathetic. You need
to really understand your character, and I think the same
thing translates in the world of business, right, you need
to deeply understand your stakeholders, your customers. You need to
be able to paint a vision and excite and inspire people,
(29:22):
especially as an entrepreneur or an entrepreneur, you've got to
get people rallied around a cause. The skills that you
learn and acting, but even just probably a self selecting
group of people who end up pursuing it professionally, right,
kind of have that ability to excite and engage and inspire,
and I think those become critical again the more senior
(29:44):
you move up in companies and you're running these businesses,
the more your job is chief communications officer, right, and
so that just becomes such an essential part of It's
probably half of the job is just talking and communicating
and getting everybody on the same page and constantly growing
in the same Drea Neelie, I love to.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
End good company. I don't want to end this one.
I'd like it to continue. But when I do have
to end it, I like to go into a lightning
round where I'm going to just throw some thoughts at you,
none of what you've heard before, but feel free. What
would you say your professional superpower is Neely empathy? Great?
What's one industry buzzword you wish would disappear forever?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Growth? Hacking?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Okay, I like it. Who was your mentor early in
your career? Or maybe more than one? But is there
a particular mentor early in your career and is there
a particular piece of advice that that person gave to you? Neely?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
So, I had a mentor early on. Actually this was
in my acting days, and the individual knew that I
was so diligent and so hard working and so hard
on myself, and the advice was stopping so hard on yourself, right.
You know every audition, you know you're going to go
(31:00):
on hundreds and hundreds, and so you can't beat yourself up.
You just have to learn from the opportunities, the mistakes
and just let it roll off and keep going.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Well, you know, I'll quote Barry Diller, who I like
to quote on this because he gave us all a
great piece of advice a long time ago. Then I've
talked about this frequently, but it applies to what you
just said. When he was bidding against some to Redstone
back in the day to buy control of Paramount. Some
to red Stone won at that time, and Barry Diller
(31:32):
issued a press release and a note also, Neely, I
think you and I. I was an English major and
I think you were as well, so I think we
share that. I think we've talked about that. So you know,
words matter, and I consider myself a pretty good writer,
but I'm a good editor and I was very good
grammatically as well. So when Barry Diller issued this press release,
(31:53):
what was so incredible was the impact of it. But
interestingly it was three complete sentences, is grammatically correct, and
it was only five words. And what he said was
they won, period we lost period next period and that's
a good lesson for life. And you just said it.
(32:15):
I didn't get this part. They did. I'll get the
next one. Yep, Neelie Clintoff. This was a true pleasure
for me and you are absolutely extraordinarily a good company.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Thank you, Michael same, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Good Company is brought to you by Breese Ventures and
iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borger Pudeo, our executive
producer and head of Content and Talent, and to Carl Catle,
executive producer at iHeart Podcasts. Episodes are produced and edited
by Mary Doo. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you
next time.
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Media is proliferated. Anybody with a channel can utilize that,
sell it right, and deliver content. It doesn't mean that
content is going to be relevant for that individual consumer.
It doesn't mean that it's going to guide the consumer
and influence the consumer to take the next decision in
the life stage. And that's where the role of commerce
(00:25):
media becomes really important.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm Michael Cassen, and this is good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports, and technologies.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(00:56):
up a listen or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good, Welcome back to Good Company.
For years, marketing lived at a distance from the moment
that mattered most. It shaped perception, built affinity, and told stories,
hoping those efforts eventually translate into action down the line.
(01:17):
But that distance is shrinking. Influence is moving closer to
the point of decision closer to the transaction itself, and
as that happens, the boundaries between media, commerce, payments, and
technology are starting to blur. That's what makes this conversation
so timely. Neelie Klenoff sits right at the center of
(01:38):
that shift, that MasterCard. She's helping build what's becoming one
of the most consequential spaces in marketing. Commerce media not
as a buzzword, but as a system that connects engagement,
decision making, and growth. What makes Neelie's perspective stand out
is that she didn't arrive here from the outside. She
spent years inside the machinery across payments, product security, and innovation,
(02:04):
understanding how these systems actually work. So when she talks
about marketing's future, it's grounded in something much deeper than
the surface trend. Today, we're going to unpack what commerce
media is and what it isn't, why so many companies
are moving into it, and how it begins to change
as AI takes on a bigger role in decision making.
(02:26):
We'll also get into trust measurement and what it takes
to build something new inside a company operating at global scale. Neali,
it's great to have you here. Welcome to good company.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So Michael, first of all, it's been great getting to
know you and coming into this industry with a different
perspective as you outlined. With that perspective, I think one
of the things that's really been eye opening for me
is the very real conversations I'm hearing from brands, from
advertisers who are facing increase press sure to do more
(03:01):
with less or do more with the same budget they
had the year before, and that is translating into this,
I would say, just really rigorous focus on outcomes, right,
and not just trading on impressions, but being able to
demonstrate the efficacy the financial benefits in kind of very
(03:22):
clear metrics associated with their marketing activities. And so when
you take that and you start to connect that to
the commerce journey and how all of that is shifting, right,
We're kind of moving into this world where you've got,
you know, the commerce journey being increasingly fragmented, consumers moving
(03:42):
into new channels, the funnel itself flattening, right. I think
you know where signal and outcome come together is the
thing that's becoming i think, increasingly critical and nearly.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
It's so interesting because you're talking about words that traditionally
we're buzzwords and now are anything but signal. I mean,
we use that word in such a different way today
and importantly, and what's so interesting, As we've said, you've
spent years working underneath the consumer experience layer. Now you're
(04:18):
kind of front and center. You're in front of the
camera now in a different way literally and figuratively. Has
this journey changed your definition or forced all of us
to look at marketing as something different.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
From sitting behind the scenes. I've had an upfront look
into all the key aspects that I think meet for
a trusted and really impactful system. There are billions of
transactions one hundred and seventy five billion in twenty twenty
five alone that cross the MasterCard network and we are
looking at those those are coming from different geographies, channels
(04:52):
and merchants to give us this holistic look and view
of different patterns of behavior. And that actually brings me
to the second quot right, which is I've also had
a front row seat into how we design these systems
with trust at the forefront, right, Trust and privacy consent right,
and that is really woven into the fabric actually how
(05:12):
we bring all of our products to market, So everything
from how the data itself is protected, how it's stored,
principles around integrity and ethics. I mean, we do rigorous
bias testing right to make sure that when we're building algorithms,
you know, propensity, you know models on top of the
data that we're making sure that you know, we are
getting to the highest integrity outputs and kind of eliminating
(05:35):
bias and things like that. And so you know, to
the point around that view, right and having that perspective
where that's really given you know, me as I entered
this kind of media and advertising space is I think
a lot of confidence that you know, there's a lot
there that needs to be true right for everyone to
(05:56):
trust ultimately how these systems come to market right, and
how they can utilize these systems for value creations. So
I think that that behind the scenes look has given
me one an appreciation for the stuff that has to
be there, but also the questions I think as an
industry we have to be asking of each other and
all of our partners to make sure that all of
(06:18):
those pieces are in place.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Let's try and unpack what commerce media is and perhaps
what it isn't so first question is do you think
the narrative is getting ahead of the reality on commerce
media in general? That's question number one. And with everybody
and everyone with data and distribution now calling themselves a
(06:42):
media network, what separates a platform that delivers messages from
one that can influence outcomes? So there's two things there.
You know, has the narrative of commerce media gotten ahead
of the reality and is everybody entitled to call them
media network when some are really, as I said, delivering
(07:03):
messages and other delivering outcomes.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I'm going to take this one head on and maybe
I'll say something a little bit provocative there, Michael, go
for it. So look, I think that for you know,
a lot of players, if you don't have the scale,
the scale of the data, the scale of the reach
the technology, the narrative could get ahead of the reality.
Certainly for us, I mean we're there, right. I mean
(07:28):
I mentioned, you know before the transaction, you know scale
that we have the ability to use the insights to
be able to personalize the right message. I like to say,
we're not guessing, Michael that you're a coffee lover. We
know you're a coffee lover because we can see that
you bought coffee every day, right, and so we can
close the loop on attribution and ultimately, you know, back
(07:51):
to the question on is the narrative ahead of the reality,
I would say, in our case, the reality is there.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It's really deterministic in terms of its ability to use
signals to inform personalization and then be able to tie
the ad exposure ultimately to the sale. Now to your
next question, right, what separates you know, the message you know,
from the outcome those who are using their channels for
distribution versus those who are using it to really drive
(08:18):
and influence what happens at the back end. What I
would say is, I think this is where again the
deterministic signals become so important. Media is proliferated. Anybody with
a channel can utilize that, sell it, right, and you know,
deliver content. It doesn't mean that that content is going
to be relevant for that individual consumer. It doesn't mean
(08:41):
that it's going to guide the consumer and influence the
consumer to take the next decision in the life stage.
And I think again that's where the role of converce
media becomes really important because the insights with the data
help give the brand a sense for where is the
consumer in this channel, where are they journey, what's the
right message, what's the best way to reach them? And
(09:03):
so it can guide the intelligence, it can guide the
incentives right and ultimately the outcomes by providing that context.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
So let's talk about this a little further. Neally, you've
described MasterCard as both a network and a company that's
actually building or actively building one. What does that distinction
mean in practice to you?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So we're network, right, as you said, Michael, that's our legacy,
that's our history. We connect consumers to merchants through their
banks who provide their credit cards, right, And that is
a system that works all around the world.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
And it's a network that consumers are connected. And go
back to that astounding number, one hundred and seventy five
billion transactions.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
That's right, one hundred and seventy five billion transactions. But
there's another aspect to that, which is the interoperability, the
scale and interoperability. What do I mean by that? What
I mean by that is if you take your card
or your digital wallet and you tap to pay for
your cup of coffee in the morning in the US,
and then a week later you find yourself in the
(10:14):
London tube and you're paying for your train ticket. It's
going to work the same way everywhere. It's always about
secure and seamless consumer experiences. So we are now taking
that philosophy, that framework, and we're extending it now into
the media and advertising space. The players might look a
(10:34):
little bit different, obviously, there are still consumers, now there's brands,
and now there's publishers, but the principles stay the same
in terms of delivering irrelevant and seamless and secure consumer experience.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Wall Street might look at this and say, MasterCards move
in this space looks like an expansion from the outside,
But from your perspective, I would think you'd think this
is a very strategic almost not an insight, but an
inside move and an inevitable.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Evolution one hundred percent. So we built this business off
of the back of another business that we've had for
ten years, serving personalized card linked offers. And what were
we doing. We were going around the world, we were
sourcing incentives and discounts from brands, we were using our
data and our system to personalize those using the insights
from the data, and then we were distributing those to
(11:24):
consumers in a network of publishing channels. Albeit largely banks,
because the program itself was really positioned more as a
loyalty program for banks to give to their consumers versus
an advertising and media solution to provide value to advertisers
and help them connect more deeply with consumers. And that
(11:46):
was the realization along the way was actually we had
an advertising platform, right. We had all of the components
of ability to reach brands, an entire ad operations function
working with advertisers directly to set up campaigns in line
with their objectives, the distribution of the content, and then
the proof at the back end, right. And so for us,
(12:06):
this was truly, as you said, it just an evolution
of the business that we were running into something that
could be a much bigger value proposition.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Well, it goes back in my mind to the earliest
days of statement stuffers with your credit card bill. Okay,
I mean, if we could really bring it back to
where I started before credit cards. But the idea of
a statement stuffer makes a lot of sense, and the
idea of that move for MasterCard obviously makes a lot
of sense. A good company will be right back after
(12:37):
the break. One thing MasterCard I think owns in this
marketplace is understanding how to build platforms, and I'm going
(12:58):
to tie this to marketing nearly in a way that
might surprise you. One of the examples I've used over
the last twenty plus years, and I might be wrong
on my timing, but I don't think i'm wrong by
much is MasterCard had a campaign that used a word,
and that word was priceless, and that is still very
much a part of the DNA of MasterCard in platform
(13:21):
because you took as a marketer the word priceless or
the concept of priceless and made it a platform. So
moves like this make a lot of sense for MasterCard.
And I know that's a non sequitor to what we're
talking about in commerce media, but it really isn't. Because
you're building a platform as you did with a word
and a concept. You're building a platform around commerce media.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And isn't Michael, that what we all strive for is
a fully threaded system that allows whomever it is. Whether
it's a brand, right of course, MasterCard is a brand
to deliver value through a marketing campaign, but that's also
built on the foundation of a broader platform, right, whether
(14:08):
that's a technical platform, a set of products, data capabilities,
it's got to be fully stitched together to actually deliver
the value to the end consumer, which I think is
what we're all trying to do, to.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Deliver a priceless experience. You see that, because value is
a funny word. I use this the other day. Nearly.
One of my favorite Oscar Wild quotes is a bit obscure.
It's the definition of a cynic. The definition of a cynic,
per Oscar Wild, is someone who knows the price of
everything and the value of nothing. Okay, I try to
(14:41):
not be cynical. I try to look at the light
side and say, this is priceless. So there you go. Nearly,
MasterCard operates again. That one hundred and seventy five billion
transaction number is astounding, even in a world of trillion
dollar companies. You think of that number and you stand back,
and you span, as you said, industries and geographies. What
(15:04):
does that vantage point allow you to understand about behaviors
Number one that others might miss? And I know the
example of my buying a coffee on the tube and
my buying a coffee at the local coffee shop in
New York or LA. With that level of access and information,
how do you decide where to show up, and I
guess equally is important, you know, not to show up.
(15:27):
I get accused sometimes in the industry of showing up
at the opening of an envelope. I presume you're a
little more discriminating than I am. So with that level
of access, that was a joke to our listeners. By
the way, hopefully they're laughing as they listen to us
neely we are anyway. Indeed, you know, if I'm a marketer,
(15:48):
I guess we're all marketers. This is the third piece
of that question. What becomes possible working with MasterCard that
wouldn't be achievable through a single retailer or platform because
you bring so much together. So I've given you again
a compound question.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
All right, three part question. I'm going to answer each part.
So the unique vantage point I shared the example around
coffee lovers, I'll kind of broaden that. It's really, I
think two things, right. It's about using the data for
the purposes of personalizing the content or ensuring it's really
relevant to the consumer, and then of course being able
(16:24):
to close the loop from an attribution standpoint. Now on
the personalization side, it's about audiences, right, and really having
confidence in audiences like the coffee lover, but also being
able to do some pattern recognition. So, for example, if
we start to see a consumer buying products in let's
just say, like the home improvement area, well that's giving
(16:44):
us really helpful signals to indicate where the consumer is, right,
maybe they've just moved into a home, maybe they're renovating.
But that allows us to then leverage that intelligence to
deliver more relevant content for that consumer in a categories.
So that's kind of one aspect. The attribution is another one.
(17:05):
Over eighty percent of transactions still take place in store,
yet most media spend is digital and it's taking place
in digital channels right, and so the value of commerce media,
and one of the reasons why we even got into
this space is the ability to bridge between the channels,
the ability to connect the ad exposure that happened in
(17:25):
a digital channel to the actual transaction. You can't over
interpret proof. So that's answered to question.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
One and a good answer all right, answered.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
A question too, where should brands show up? How do
we think about that. There's a lot of at fraud
out there, there's a lot of inefficient spend out there,
and so the approach that we've taken is to work
with premium publishers. Typically these are publishers who have a
log in, so it's a really protected environment. The consumers
maybe stored their card on file with that merchant because
(17:58):
they're a habitual user of that merchant, and again merchant here,
you know, I liken that to the publisher. Right. We're
taking a really curated approach in terms of the brands
that we work with, with the guiding principle of meet
the consumer where they are right, whether that's at you know,
their favorite brands to transact with, you know, their streaming providers,
(18:18):
their right share providers, their agentic providers, all eyed in store,
meet the consumer where they are right, and then deliver
the relevant content in that channel.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
But nearly I'm going to stop you there for a second,
because we're entering a phase where decisions are increasingly mediated
by systems. You just said it, Meet the agent. If
we're in an agentic situation, meet the agent where the
agent is number one. When you're no longer speaking only
to a human decision maker, that's got to change what's
happening again, Potentially agentic to agentic, and if an algorithm
(18:53):
is actually making a purchase decision. What does it take
for a brand to be selected? I always thought when
and RFID and tags, you know, if our clothing were
tagged in a way, I always thought when I opened
a closet, that jacket screaming out to me, choose me,
Choose me, Like do your clothes feel left out when
(19:15):
you don't choose them? I'm getting way down the trench here.
But when it's not your decision or somebody else's decision,
but authentic to agentic, how do I stand out in
that crowd?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
That is the question. By the way, the clothing question
is also a question I have because I can no
longer see inside my own closet. So maybe somebody could
build you know, whether it's RFID or some other solutions,
so that I can actually know what's in there. Good
point on Agentic. This is a question on everybody's minds
right now, right Brands need to be legible to machines.
(19:47):
You're going to have these inter connections happening. Humans interacting
with agents, agents interacting with agents. I believe we will
see a world where you have agents negotiating discounts, you know,
with brands on consumers behalf applying loyalty points, and of
(20:07):
course moving into autonomous buying, which as master Kark we're
at the forefront of that is a new world right
that we are entering into. That said, the way I
look at it is there is kind of two aspects.
There's agentic marketing and agenic commerce. Agentic marketing is all
about how does the brand become discoverable. Agentic commerce is
all about what happens and how do you ensure that
(20:30):
it's safe and secure when the agent is making the payment?
And I think it's the insights. Commerce media is just
incredibly well served to sit in the pocket in between
to bridge those two things together, to bring the context
to guide the decision making and the relevance in the
channel regardless of who makes the payment, whether it's the
agent or the consumer.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
And because you said this at the very very beginning
of our conversation, and we can't stress it enough, trust
becomes such an important aspect of that and what you
just said allows you, as a consumer, I know I
trust MasterCard because I've been trusting MasterCard forever, so I
will trust MasterCard in this context. And at least that's
(21:13):
half the battle right there. So you're demonstrating what is
I think still the most important thing to consumers in
this context will be trust because you're kind of closing
your eyes, holding your nose and taking a dive sometimes
and you've got to know that you're going to land
on your feet.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
You're totally right. There is kind of two ways to
look at this, right, there is the innovation train and
that's happening right. There is many companies, MasterCard included, who
are working to enable autonomous buying agents. And then there's
the consumer trust right, trusting that that agent is going
to buy the right thing on their behalf right and
(21:49):
not make a mistake. And part of what we're doing
as a company is making sure that we have the
right governance and frameworks in place so that if the
agent did make a miss and they bought you the
red sweater instead of the blue sweater, that you've got
the right principles in place to help govern how do
you manage that dispute? And so that's kind of one
really big aspect I think for marketers. One, it's important
(22:14):
to appreciate that I do think that that's going to
take time. I think it's going to take time for
consumers to trust that I think the key question that
we're all standing in is in this environment, how do
brands ensure that they are discoverable? And then if the
exposure of the brand and that environment actually translated to
a sale, how do you link those two? And again,
(22:36):
to me, that's where the role of commerce media players
come increasingly important. The ability to be able to close
the loop from an attribution standpoint, whether human made the
purchase or the agent.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And you know, look, we talked about this at the
outset because I think you talked about outcomes and trust
and signals as important words in our conversation. Nearly measurement outcomes.
Commerce media promises greater accountability obviously a closer tie between
the spend and the outcome. If you were designing a
(23:11):
scorecard that aligns marketing, finance, and leadership, because you've lived
across all three, because I want to get into leadership
in a moment, what would it include again, marketing, finance
and leadership as a scorecard. You know the dashboard that
someone's going to say, I got the outcome. This is
my measurement tool. I got the outcome I was looking for.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Look, I think every business is different. I will also
say that more measurement doesn't automatically mean better measurement, and
so the right measurement, the right signals, the right proof
points that can help inform decision making. To me is
the key right because listen, increasingly our marketing teams, our
(23:53):
cmos need to prove value back to their CFOs, and
their CFOs are putting pressure on them, and so having
the right scorecard with the right level of granularity and
insight that also stitches insights together across channels to provide
a holistic picture of how campaigns are performing, how the
consumer is behaving, how things are shifting. To me, that's
(24:17):
the goal.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
You touched on something that I've subscribed to for a
long time, which is Marketers Publisher. Everybody in business today
is tired of point solutions. They want end to end solutions,
and what you just talked about was stitching it together
to give an end to end so I can see
the whole picture on whatever dashboard I may have. I
(24:39):
get that into end solutions, good company will be right
back after the break. Neially, I'm going to switch for
(25:05):
a second because this gets to be the fun part
I want to talk about you. You are effectively building
a new business inside a very very established company. I
think you coined a word. Internally. I've heard a rumor
about as opposed to be an entrepreneur, an entrepreneur from
building from within. What's different about that? I'm curious when
(25:28):
you're doing it from within a company the size of
MasterCard as opposed to you know, two folks in a
garage with the you know, baling wire and tape putting
something together.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
So I have been married to an entrepreneur my entire
adult life, and what I can tell you is there
are a lot of actual similarities between what you know
your non corporate entrepreneur is doing and your corporate entrepreneur.
And then there are some key differences I'll share first
and foremost similarities. I mean, look, you know you're doing
(25:58):
the same things. You're designing strategy, right, you need buying
from your investors, right, and your investors you know it
may come with different lenses, right, Those who are the visionaries,
those who are your CFO types who want to understand
when are they going to get their payback and what
does that look like? And when are we going to
break even? And so kind of managing those make that's consistent.
(26:21):
Figuring out, how do you get scrappy, how do you
de risk as you go right so that you can
validate that hey, we're on the right track, or pivot
if needed to. Those are the things that are all consistent.
I think some of the differences are when you're part
of a large organization, you have the benefit of the scale, right,
(26:41):
the access to the funds, the ability to deploy resources, sales, teams, partnerships, teams,
platforms around the world at your fingertips. But that also
comes with a whole lot of bringing everybody along on
the journey, right. So there's a whole lot of stakeholder
management right and education, especially when you're entering a brand
(27:03):
new space like media and advertising. And so that's kind
of the journey that I've been on, which is doing
all the things that a CEO of a startup is
trying to do right, like get the thing going, build
the proof points, get the product and tech out to market,
get the customer feedback right, and you use that to
keep iterating while also managing all of the stakeholders and
(27:25):
removing the blockers right. And the blockers can come from
any which.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Watch it so neely, I'm going to test our audience
and you a little. There was a series of movies
in the nineteen thirties called the Andy Hardy Movies, and
the Andy Hardy Movies starred Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland.
Okay names people that are listening to this podcast may
or may not know, but I'm going to go with it.
(27:50):
But what that was was about kids working in a
barn and putting on a play. And the line was,
mom's got drapes, Let's put on a play because that
way you had curtains. Now, Neily, I'm going to talk
about your background because you didn't start in the credit
card business. You started your career as an actress and
you shared that with me, so I'm sharing that with
(28:11):
the world. Now. Has that prepared you for this entrepreneurial
moment in your life? Or should we just break into
song and dance? You know I'd like to do that.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Oh my goodness, I realized you were going to go there, Michael,
But okay, bring it on. Yes, you are correct. I
did musicals professionally, something I'd pursued for a really long time,
travel the country doing lots of different shows.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So you understand summer stock when I use that exempt.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
How many summer stocks did I do? Back to back
shows every two to three weeks, performing a new role,
learning a new script. It was a whole lot of
fun when I was a lot younger. I actually really
do think it helped me, and I think I appreciate
that so much more now as a more seasoned executive
than I did when I transitioned from the world of
acting into the world of financial services, payments, and product
(29:01):
The ability to first and foremost be empathetic, I guess
an actor, you need to be deeply empathetic. You need
to really understand your character, and I think the same
thing translates in the world of business, right, you need
to deeply understand your stakeholders, your customers. You need to
be able to paint a vision and excite and inspire people,
(29:22):
especially as an entrepreneur or an entrepreneur, you've got to
get people rallied around a cause. The skills that you
learn and acting, but even just probably a self selecting
group of people who end up pursuing it professionally, right,
kind of have that ability to excite and engage and inspire,
and I think those become critical again the more senior
(29:44):
you move up in companies and you're running these businesses,
the more your job is chief communications officer, right, and
so that just becomes such an essential part of It's
probably half of the job is just talking and communicating
and getting everybody on the same page and constantly growing
in the same Drea Neelie, I love to.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
End good company. I don't want to end this one.
I'd like it to continue. But when I do have
to end it, I like to go into a lightning
round where I'm going to just throw some thoughts at you,
none of what you've heard before, but feel free. What
would you say your professional superpower is Neely empathy? Great?
What's one industry buzzword you wish would disappear forever?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Growth? Hacking?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Okay, I like it. Who was your mentor early in
your career? Or maybe more than one? But is there
a particular mentor early in your career and is there
a particular piece of advice that that person gave to you? Neely?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
So, I had a mentor early on. Actually this was
in my acting days, and the individual knew that I
was so diligent and so hard working and so hard
on myself, and the advice was stopping so hard on yourself, right.
You know every audition, you know you're going to go
(31:00):
on hundreds and hundreds, and so you can't beat yourself up.
You just have to learn from the opportunities, the mistakes
and just let it roll off and keep going.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Well, you know, I'll quote Barry Diller, who I like
to quote on this because he gave us all a
great piece of advice a long time ago. Then I've
talked about this frequently, but it applies to what you
just said. When he was bidding against some to Redstone
back in the day to buy control of Paramount. Some
to red Stone won at that time, and Barry Diller
(31:32):
issued a press release and a note also, Neely, I
think you and I. I was an English major and
I think you were as well, so I think we
share that. I think we've talked about that. So you know,
words matter, and I consider myself a pretty good writer,
but I'm a good editor and I was very good
grammatically as well. So when Barry Diller issued this press release,
(31:53):
what was so incredible was the impact of it. But
interestingly it was three complete sentences, is grammatically correct, and
it was only five words. And what he said was
they won, period we lost period next period and that's
a good lesson for life. And you just said it.
(32:15):
I didn't get this part. They did. I'll get the
next one. Yep, Neelie Clintoff. This was a true pleasure
for me and you are absolutely extraordinarily a good company.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Thank you, Michael same, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Good Company is brought to you by Breese Ventures and
iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borger Pudeo, our executive
producer and head of Content and Talent, and to Carl Catle,
executive producer at iHeart Podcasts. Episodes are produced and edited
by Mary Doo. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you
next time.
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