April 24, 2026 • 40 mins
Andrés Martinez, the author of the new book “The Great Game: A Tale of Two Footballs And America’s Quest to Conquer Global Sport,” joins Sarah to discuss what it took for the U.S. to finally speak the language of soccer, FIFA finally reaching stateside audiences in the most ironic way, the surprising root of the term “soccer mom,” and how women’s soccer is a U.S. export despite the sport itself being an import. Plus, a last-minute battle to choose-your-own-adventure, cleared for the Storm, and what’s that I see? Way more airtime.
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The NWSL schedule can be found here
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Read Jeff Kassouf’s reporting for ESPN on how the NWSL could flip schedules here and here
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Check out the WNBA preseason broadcast schedule here and the regular season broadcast schedule here
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Read Alexa Philippou’s story with details on Dominique Malonga’s FIBA clearance here
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Buy a copy of Andrés Martinez’s new book “The Great Game” here
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Donate to the Hear the Cheers campaign here
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Listen to Pablo Torre’s podcast episode on The Onion buying InfoWars here
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You can now WATCH Sarah’s interviews! Subscribe to @iHeartWomensSports on YouTube and check out the Good Game playlist here
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where, like Caitlin Clark,
we're flipping the script and demanding that all of our
listeners huddle together for.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
A quick pick you in the back.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
We can't see your face, sorority squats up front and smile.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Got it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
It's Friday, April twenty fourth, and on today's show, we're
speaking with Andrea's Martinez, the author of the new book
The Great Game, A Tale of two football's at America's
quest to conquer global sport. I got up with them
last week to discuss what it took for the US
to finally speak the language of soccer FIFA reaching American
audiences in the most ironic way, the surprising root of
the term soccer mom, and how women's soccer is a
(00:41):
US export despite the sport itself being an import. Plus
a last minute battle to choose your own adventure cleared
for the storm, and what's that? I see way more airtime.
It's all coming up right after this Welcome back slices,
(01:05):
Happy Friay. Here's what you need to know today. Let's
start with the PWHL, where there are four games on
Saturday to close out the regular season. The final playoff
spot will come down to Ottawa and Toronto, who are
coincidentally going.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Head to head at two pm Eastern.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Ottawa is currently up by three points over Toronto and
needs just one point to clinch a birth, so basically,
the Charge will qualify with either a regulation win or
any type of overtime result. Meantime, if the Scepters win
in regulation, they'll be tied with the Charge in the standings,
but will learn the tie break for the playoff spot
by virtue of having more regulation wins this season. Meantime,
(01:44):
Minnesota is locked into the third seed and the number
one seed, which also comes with the power to choose
one's round one opponent, will come down to Boston and Montreal,
with the Victoire heading into the weekend with a one
point lead to the NWSL, where the league is back
this weekend after being off for the April FIFA window.
Shout out to statistician extraordinaire and friend of the show
(02:05):
Jen Cooper for letting us know that this international break
featured the most NWSL call ups in league history, with
one hundred and thirty players representing thirty two national teams.
This weekend's slate of games get underway tonight at five
thirty pm Eastern, with Racing Louisville hosting the Orlando Pride.
Also tonight, the Kansas City Current travels to the Washington Spirit.
(02:26):
Kickoff for that one is at eight Eastern. It's been
a rough start to the season for both traditionally dominant teams.
The Current have just two wins and already three losses,
while the Spirit sit at just one win, three draws,
and a loss, with their lone win coming against BFC
just ahead of the international break. We'll link to the
full NWSL schedule in the show notes. Speaking of the
(02:48):
NWSL schedule, ESPNS Jeff Casou reported last week that the
league's board of governors is set to vote this month
on whether to flip the schedule to fall to spring
instead of the current spring to fall model. Now, most
international leagues use a fault to spring schedule, and MLS
is slated to match them by flipping its footprint next year.
But the biggest obstacle to the change is the weather,
(03:09):
with plenty of NWSL teams based in cold weather markets
that would make playing games in December and January inhospitable,
if not damn near impossible. In a statement to ESPN,
the NWSL Players Association said that a majority of players
currently oppose changing the NWSL schedule.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
The right question is not whether the league should flip
the calendar, but whether the right conditions exist to do
so responsibly. Right now, they do not. The ability to
navigate weather related disruptions depends on consistent control over facilities
and operational flexibility across clubs, and that standard has not
been met league wide. Our top priorities in any scenario
(03:46):
are protecting and promoting player health, safety, and performance.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
We'll keep you posted as we hear more, and in
the meantime, we'll link to Jeff's latest stories on the
topic in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
More soccer.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
The second season of the nslaka the Northern Super League
up in America's hat kicks off today. All six teams
are in action this weekend. Last year's champion, Vancouver Rise FC,
will be honored tonight during a game at home against
Toronto that's a rematch of last year's championship game. We'll
link to the full NSL schedule in the show notes
to the WNBA, where the league is announced its full
(04:19):
national broadcast schedule for the upcoming season with more.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Broadcast partners than ever before.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Two hundred and sixteen games out of three hundred and
thirty total will air on national networks. Indiana Fever get
the most national broadcast this season, with all forty four
games set to air nationally, followed by the Dallas Wings
with thirty six games, the New York Liberty with thirty five,
and the Las Vegas Aces with thirty three. We'll link
to the complete broadcast schedule in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
More WNBA.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
With training camps well underway, lots of new look teams
will get their first test this weekend with.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Some preseason contests.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And because it's twenty twenty six and not you know,
twenty twenty four, four preseason games will air on Ion
and all of the games will be available to fans
to stream for free on League pass YEP. Gone are
the days of watching preseason games via fans Instagram live
feeds progress. We'll link to the league's full preseason slate
in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
More hoops.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Seattle Storm Center Dominique Malonga has been cleared by FOEBA
to compete in the upcoming WNBA season, according to reporting
from ESPN's Alexa Philip who. You may recall that during
the WNBA off season there was a dispute between Malonga
and Turkish club vnor Bace. Just under a year ago,
Malonga signed a three year deal with venner Bach, but
in October, the Turkish club announced on social media that
(05:33):
she had quote unquote unilaterally terminated her contract without providing
a justified reason. Now, there were initially questions about whether Malonga,
who went on to play an unrivaled as a member
of BREEZEBC, would be cleared to play in the WNBA,
given that FEBA requires players to get clearance letters in
order to play in both the w and FEBA affiliated leagues.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Well, good news for storm bands. The Clouds have parted
and she is in. We'll link to Alexi's report in
the show Notes to College Hoops. On Thursday, Olivia Edwards,
a current high school senior and one of the country's
top prospects, announced she's committed to South Carolina ahead of
her freshman year. Now Edwards previously had signed with Tennessee,
(06:14):
but the six foot three forward requested a release from
her national letter of intent earlier this month when the
Lady Boles saw a mass exodus of players to the
transfer portal.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So now she's headed to play for Dawn Staley.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And by the way, Staley's game Cocks are the only
SEC women's basketball team to not lose a single player
to the transfer portal this year. Not only that, Staley
has now added Edwards and Texas transfer Jordan Lee. More
college hoops shout out to friend at the show, Shay Ralph,
who has reached a contract extension with Vanderbilt University after
leading the Commodorese to the NCAA Sweet sixteen and earning
(06:47):
AP Coach of the Year honors. In a statement, Vanderbilt
athletic director Candice story Lee said, Ralph is quote the
right leader to keep elevating our women's basketball program while
inspiring our broader community as we set the standard for
winn's athletics. Her well deserved recognition only reinforces what we
see every day. She makes teams better, empowers women, and
brings people together.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
We got to take a break when we come back.
Football in America is a story of women and immigrants.
We'll talk about it with Andres Martinez stick here.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Joining us now.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
He's the author of the new book The Great Game,
A Tale of two footballs at America's quest to Conquer
Global Sport. He's a special advisor to the president of
ASU's Cronkite School and professor of practice there. Former stops
include The New America, The Pittsburgh Post Gazette, The LA Times,
and The New York Times, where he was a Pulitzer
Prize finalist for his editorials on US farm subsidies. Born
in Mexico, educated at Yale. We met through my high
(07:49):
school track teammate and friend, the fabulous Victoria Jackson. And
now I'm in the inaugural class of fellows for their
joint venture, ASU's Great Game Lab. It's Andres Martinez.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Hey, Hey Sarah, great to be here.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Thank you, Thanks for coming on. Congrats on the new book.
How's the promotion going?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
You having fun talking soccer with all of us American
morons that are still learning the game all these years later.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Football is a game. Yeah, No, I'm having a blast.
I was in DC last week in New York. Had
a good conversation with Franklin four, who wrote the How
Soccer Explains the World back in the day, So that
was really fun. We talked about how much things have changed,
and yeah, I mean the other part of the book
is looking at it's a two way street. It's the
(08:34):
growth of soccer in the US, the US within the
world of soccer, but also our success at exporting some
of our sports. But all of which leads to the
fact that I think for the first time you could
say Americans are following and playing the same sports as
the rest of the world like a shared language, which
is novel in a way, because sport was one way
we used to express our exceptionalism as a country. It's
(08:56):
like similar to rejecting the metric system, right, I was gonna.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Say, I think it's hard for folks to believe though,
because youth soccer participation is as big as it is.
The NWSL has such rocket ship growth, the Men's World
Cup is about to begin on US soil. But soccer
used to be like the dippin' dots of sports in America.
It was always the quote unquote sport of the future,
but it never was fully arriving in the present, no
matter how much people hyped it up. And that's changed,
(09:21):
but not in the way that most sports come to
prominence here in the US. Your book does a great
job of sort of discussing soccer's arrival, and I want
to start kind of big picture to get to why
you're the person to tell the story of how soccer
came about differently, So tell me a little bit about
your childhood and why you felt uniquely qualified to write
this book.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Yeah, I don't know if you uniquely qualified, but I
definitely felt very strongly that there was something funky about
how the US engages with the rest of the world
through sport. Because I was born in Mexico, as you mentioned,
but I was raised in.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
A very American household.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
My mom was a gringa from Dallas, Texas who went
down to teach the American school. You know, I think
she thought it'd be a large a year or two,
but she met my Mexican dad and one thing led
to another and so it turned into more like a
thirty some year adventure. But you know, so I was
very fortunate to grow up in a bilingual, bicultural household
in Mexico. We visit family in Texas, and my parents
(10:16):
were very strict about us speaking English at home because
everything else was in Spanish. So I moved to the
States when I'm fifteen and thinking I'm not going to
have any issues adapting to a quote unquote foreign country,
because this was kind of like my other country. But
yet when it came to sport, it was as if
I had been dropped on a different planet. Now, I'm
kind of dating myself here because this was in the
(10:37):
early eighties and obviously now we're in a very different place.
But I think from that initial experience it left a
deep impression on me how important sport is and how
people connect to each other, to their geographies. But I
just felt like we were I couldn't talk to anybody
about the last World Cup or the next World Cup
(10:58):
out and there was nobody. You know, when you're growing
up in Mexico, you're connected to the same sports culture
as people in Korea, Germany, anywhere, you know, Africa, anywhere
in the world. And yet at that time, the US
was solely focused on these sports that you know, produce
domestic league champions that we go around calling world champions.
(11:19):
You know, to this day, you know, to this day,
our most popular athletes in our most followed sports league
never get to represent their country, like Tom Brady never
got to wear a team USA, you know, Jersey, because
there's nobody to play against But obviously, like things have
changed dramatically, and I'm so I really want to write
a book about what it means this change and why
(11:41):
and how we got connected to the rest of the
world in sport and on the on the soccer front,
it's it is a tale of changing demographics, immigration, but
you can't you can't overstate the role of the women's
game in connecting us to soccer. And then there's also
just sort of a the imperative of globalization and that's
(12:03):
like the top down American multinationals needed soccer to take
off as well.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, you write in the book and you talk about how,
you know, things changed in America and soccer started to
take hold in American society had been sort of in
a quote, this is a foreign thing to be resisted,
like the metric systems, socialism and esperanto. To suddenly will
shorthand the most typical suburban, white, upper middle class voters
as soccer moms. It really was a wild pivot. And
(12:29):
I actually had forgotten that the term soccer moms came
about because of politics. Can you remind us about that?
Because now it means much more about sometimes derogatory, often
just the idea of like a wife or mom schlepping
around kids today sports and it's not really always a
bad thing, but at one point it was really a
(12:49):
way of classifying a certain kind of person.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
I mean, to me, it's evidence of how quickly things change,
because when I first come to the nineties, there is
indifference or hostility, outright hostility to side, particularly on the
political right, and you had politicians like Jack camp saying
this is a foreign plot. And then you know, by
the time you get to the mid late nineties and
that phenomenon. And again I think what takes the foreign
(13:14):
edge off of soccer is the women's game. And this
is a wonderful story of unintended consequences, Like no one
if FIFA headquarters thought, oh my gosh, the way to
get Americans into soccer is by having girls and women play,
because at that point they didn't think girls or women
should play, right. But yes, I think the Democrat that
this term soccer mom. So again to me it you know,
if you talked about us quote unquote soccer mom in
(13:36):
the political context in the seventies or eighties, it would
have been probably like a bomb throwing foreign anarchist right.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Yeah, super left.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Yeah, yeah, trying to bring it all down and connect
us to some global government and adopt the metric system.
But by the time you get to the Clinton years,
I think I believe it's Mark Penn, who was a
well known sort of political demograph of pollster, and they
were just they were using that as shorthand to identify,
you know, suburban, upper middle class white you know, the
(14:09):
most mainstream, imaginable voters who are probably like, not that ideological,
not that engaged politically, and how do we get to them?
They can they're independent because they're just they can't really
be bothered too much by politics because they're too busy,
as they're saying, schlepping and kids around in the midivent.
And it's amazing to me how quickly like this term
(14:30):
of soccer mom, the shorthand for what most American suburban
families were doing on weekends was going to wreck soccer games.
I mean the pickup of kids playing soccer. And it
was most and it was led by girls. Post title nine.
I don't think there's ever been anywhere in the world
where a sport is picked up so quickly.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, a yso was everywhere all the time, and it
was an easy sport to have people start young, and
easy activity to put your kids in very young and
maybe take your hands for a little bit, teach them
about how.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
To be on a team.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I want to get to the to the post title
nine and the ninety nine ers team specifically.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
But you just made me think of something which is.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Of course, you know, the millionth time this has come
up in discussions about the US. But the way soccer
was demonized as a foreign threat, it's like we both
say we're a melting pot and embrace it and simultaneously
clinched so hard to protect against things from other cultures
that we don't dominate. And you mentioned the jingoistic way
(15:29):
we talk about our sports. We call ourselves world champions
for every league that we have, regardless of whether we've
just beaten national teams, we haven't faced a global array
of competitors. We've just beaten the other competitors or in
our own league, and we call them world champs. You know,
did the fact that the US would be inferior at
this thing that other countries had loved and perfected for
(15:50):
so long impact the desire to keep the sport out
of America? Or was it more just this isn't our thing,
so we can ignore it.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I think it's more.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
You know, if the aforementioned Victoria Jackson, your high school
buddy and my co conspirator on what we're doing with
Great Game Lab.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And professor of sport history at ASU.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
Yeah, she teaches this wonderful course on sport in US history,
and if you take her class, you learn that this
was a very conscious uncoupling, as Gwyneth Paltrow would say,
in terms of the US opting out of global sports
in the as far back in the late nineteenth century.
And you're right that it's a bit of a conundrum like, well,
are we a melting potter or are we not? And
(16:29):
I think one of the reasons why we doubled down
on playing our own games and not the games that
other people played was there was a lot of anxiety
in the late nineteenth century about well, what does it
mean to be American? Right in a country where everyone's
an immigrant. How do you express your americanness? And one
of the ways you did that was by not playing rugby,
(16:49):
by not playing cricket, but by picking up baseball and
developing an American variety of football. I mean, I almost
feel like you know, Ritianity has it has its schisms
with the different branches.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Break off football does too, right, and it's and that's.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Driven stint soccer.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
That is driven by elite universities.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
You know now that I watch NFL teams going to
play in like real Madrid stadium, it does feel like
a Protestant service and yeah, like cathedral or.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Just evangelizing for their own versions.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
So this goes on, you know, from there onwards for
like a century until we start seeing this convergence. But
it leaves us with this conundrum, which I do you know,
that's like, this is what I named the first chapter
in the book is is do we want to be
number one? Or do we want to be the only one?
And I think this becomes sort of a metaphor for
how the US engages with the world, right we because
(17:43):
you want to kind of beat the rest of the world,
but it's hard to do that, like in the NFL
case that I mentioned, if you're not playing the same sports,
and then you have to play catch up, right, because
you're not as good because you haven't been playing it.
And that's where the story of women's soccer so unique,
because women elsewhere did not play it, so we were
(18:04):
able to take a leadership role even though we were
late to embrace the sport.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
We kind of came in through a different door, right.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
American exceptionalism does sort of fuel a lot of if
we're not going to win, we will take the ball
and go home, or we will create our own things
and win them and then still pretend like we're the best.
But this is where the book is so fascinating to me,
because this is the sport that America fell in love
(18:31):
with because of women, women and immigrants, but in so
much of a way women and in the women's sports world.
Of course, we talk about how the ninety nine ers
did so much for women and girls in sport, but
maybe not enough about what they did for soccer overall.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
More than any one person.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Or team in US history, the ninety nine ers helped
finally break the dam and make this sport become something
that our country fell in love with.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Can you speak about their just overall influence?
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (18:57):
Absolutely, And I'm glad you bring this up because I
do think it connected the US to soccer forever more,
and not just on the women's side, but on the
men's side. You know that final in ninety nine is
watched by nineteen million people.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
That I mean that TV audience was enormous. It put
to rest.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Forever the idea that, you know, women's sports wasn't commercially viable.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I remember going to some of those matches. I went,
I was talking.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
I interviewed Julie Foudy and I told her I was
very excited to be watch or play Denmark. She doesn't
remember me being one of the eighty seven thousand people
in the stands. But you know, that summer it was.
It was the topic of conversation in a way that
I hope, you know, our Men's World Cup this summer
will be, but I'm not even sure it will reach
that level of I mean, every night on David Letterman
(19:46):
it was the political you know conversation, and it was
really quite you know that we had we had sort
of seen the evolution of this team. I mean, as
you know, through the entire decade, and it just culminates.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
In this They'd won the eleve and yeah, they went.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
Yeah, and they started off in China and ninety one,
you know, in the first sort of pseudo official Women's
World Cup where FIFA had this crazy name for it,
like the emin M's Cup, but that that whole team boy, Yeah,
I mean they weren't just the best at the sport,
but they you know, and they talked very eloquently about
(20:24):
how they felt a responsibility to help advocate for the game.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And you mentioned Foudy.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
She always tells the story, but it gets like I
get chills every time of them being in traffic on
the way to play at MetLife Stadium and looking around
and being like, we're going to be late.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
For our own game. What is all this and then
realizing it was for.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Them, something must be happening.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, And they had to fight for those stadiums. There
was so much disbelief in them billing the bigger places,
and they fought for it, sold it out and proved themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
And that is such a big part of the story
of women's sport.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You mentioned BEPA long coveting the US market, wishing for
more interest in sport from Americans.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
They finally get it.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
But there's an irony in women being the conduit for
soccer here because FIFA just didn't believe women should be
playing it. Like, how do you reconcile FIFA's view of
women's soccer with the views here in the US and
their response or a reaction to it being women that
finally got.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Us all on board.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Yeah, it's a wonderful story of unintended consequences, just like
title nine. You know, it's impact on sport as well, right,
because it was meant to be an educational educational nobody
really thought, you know, first and foremost about sport. But yeah,
and this is I mean, when I grew up in Mexico,
I talk about some in the book, like girls did
(21:40):
not play soccer. They played basketball and volleyball in my
middle school, and guys played soccer. And this, you know,
culturally around the world, soccer occupied the space that American
football occupies in the US, like the incumbent macho football,
and all of this is obviously very silly, and it's
(22:02):
just sort of a cultural designation, right I talked to
you know, I would tell American friends when I first
got here that I had never seen a girl play
soccer until I came to high school in the States,
and they would look at me like I was nut,
saying like, why what's more feminine quote unquote.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
About basketball, Like it's it's just the culture. Right, So, but.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
Post title nine, you know, American girls didn't face that
kind of headwind that girls in Mexico or Germany or
Korea who wanted to play soccer did because it was
the space was wide open.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
You know.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
We see some of this friction when girls want to
play American football, right in terms of like the incumbent
MACHOs belong punching back, right, But in many countries it
was outlawed. It was banned for women to play. You know,
it was this fantastic story of the nineteen seventy one. Again,
this was this was not recognized by FIFA, but it
(22:57):
was essentially a World Cup played in Mexico's city and
the stadiums are full. And interestingly, the United States didn't
participate because that's one year prior to title nine. Right,
there's a wonderful documentary about it where Brandy Chastain has
shown scenes of that and she's like, what is this?
Speaker 4 (23:15):
How did I not know about this?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah? I think she thought it was AI or something.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Right, I've talked about it, Yeah before COPA seventy one,
which everyone should go watch. But yeah, I mean it
is kind of fascinating. Remember it was maybe even just
eight or nine years ago, there was a really powerful PSA.
It was a silhouette of a player making all these moves.
They redid it again more recently with I think the
(23:40):
French national women's team.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
This was one player.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
It was one player in a silhouette and all these
insane moves, bicycle kick goals and beautiful footwork and all
this stuff. And they asked a whole bunch of people
in Brazil to identify the player, and they went through
these lists of all these names of men, and it
was Marta. But none of them would ever imagine, without
the context of it being women, that that's who it was.
(24:03):
And it just re emphasized in a lot of especially
Latin American countries.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
That it's for boys.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And what was always wild to me is to be
so obsessed with something, to have something be such a
deeply rooted part of culture and expect that only half
of you get to do it. I mean, it's I
guess not surprising, because misogyny is a hell of a drug,
but it always frustrated me, especially in those countries, that
they would be behind the US when it came to
women playing. This is your thing, this is the thing
(24:31):
that you think is the greatest thing on earth, and
you won't let us do it like ew.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
But now it's wonderful as I can go back to
my middle school in Chihuahua, Mexico, and plenty of girls
are playing, and there's a very vibrant professional league. And
this was this is this is a this is a
notion imported from the United States.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So, yeah, wild, isn't that crazy? Socer?
Speaker 5 (24:54):
Soccer is an import in this country, But the idea
of women playing soccer and professional you know, women's soccer
is an American accident. So it's been wonderful to see. Yeah,
and now we're not Now it's getting to the point
where we have been so successful and convincing the rest
of the world that women are to play soccer too,
(25:14):
that we're not going to win every tournament anymore.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Right, talked about this, Right.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
They're experiencing like the challenges of Serena Williams and Tiger
Woods that they faced at the end of their careers.
The young folks who grew up watching them and are
in the game because of them and saw themselves represented
are now beating them at the end of their careers.
You know, the US did teach the world how to
sort of invest in and uplift women's soccer, and now
countries like Spain are doing it even better.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Do you think eventually the US women will need to be.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Following the patterns of especially European soccer in order to
not be kind of middling like the men are here?
Or has Title nine given enough of a head start
that they can remain contenders no matter who else shows
up to play, and no matter whether they take gone
the like European club style and whatever.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Well, I think this this is a really fascinating question
going forward that we don't really have in any other sport.
Women's soccer is so much incorporated into like a global
ecosystem and the way that even men's soccer isn't and
our US colleges are are part of that system too,
again not in the way that it is in the
men's side. You know, Victoria and I watched Barcelona win
(26:24):
the European Champions League last May, and she was very
excited because there were three tar heels, right, there were
three three players who had who had graduated from.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
UNC, Victoria's first alma mater.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
You know, we have these these competing models where in
Europe now now that we've convinced them that this is
a sport that you know, everybody should enjoy. All the
old you know, century old clubs like Real Madrid and
Arsenal and Bayron Munich, they all are investing in women's
you know, the women's game in a big way, and
they have some some built in advantages when come compair
(27:00):
to their pros and cons right to the different models.
The NWSL, of course, they're not connected to these pre
existing larger clubs that have been playing for over a century,
and so it's going to be interesting to see which model.
I think Title nine gave us that lead in terms
of the NC DOUBLEA, And now I think, you know,
with the commercial success of the NWSL and its growth
(27:23):
and its investment, you know, it can probably hold its
own against those European clubs. But it's going to be
quite a contest. And so in the women's space, I
think FIFA's they postponed it a couple of times, but
they're launching this new Women's Club World Cup, just like
last summer they did on the men's side, and everybody thought,
this is an unnecessary gimmick because we already have the
(27:45):
European Champions League and FIFA just wants to take money
away from the European Confederation.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I think it's going to be fascinating.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Yeah, I think that's going to be the most interesting
international soccer tournam because on the women's side, you you
do need a place for this fascinating clash to occur
between the Casey Currents and the Chicago Stars and the
Arsenals in the Barcelona So that one I'm kind of
excited for now.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
The thing that's hard about it though, and we just
saw this with Gotham playing and not succeeding, is the
timing of it all. And the US is currently not
on the global soccer calendar, So can the NWSL keep
their own schedule and keep the top players? And also
when it comes to that Club World Cup, how do
you make it so that you're getting teams around the
(28:30):
same time competing and you don't have for instance, Gotham
who have just come off a championship in the end
of yourself right, want to be recovering, want to be healing,
and instead are you being sent across where they don't
play their best soccer.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I think that's going to be tough.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
Long term to sustain to have I noticed in twenty
eight they're saying this first Club World Cup will be
in January, but then you have you have the Olympics
that summer too, right, So I think it is very
hard to compete in a global contact and have different calendars. Again,
it gets back to the you know, are you a
metric or not? So I think those will probably have
(29:08):
to converge at some point.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, that was the twenty twenty six FIFA Women's Champions Cup,
which is not the same as the Club World Cup,
but it's one of the qualifiers.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Or something like that. Who can keep up with all
these things?
Speaker 1 (29:24):
But they it was like a little bit of a
mini precursor and it was tough because of timing. And
so I do think that, you know, Jessica Berman, the
commission of the NDIABASEL has been asked a couple different
times about whether they can stick on this calendar, and
it's something as the years go on, we'll have to
have to keep looking at, you know. For our purposes
of this show, we're focusing mostly on the role that
women played in helping Americans embrace soccer, but immigrants are
(29:45):
as much a part of the story. And it's kind
of funny now how the women's leagues like Angel City
FC are making shirts that say, you know, Immigrant City FC,
and are like leaning into pushing back on some of
the rhetoric from this administration, the anti ice protests, things
like that, because there is this feeling in women's sports
of embracing and aligning with other marginalized or disenfranchised groups,
(30:09):
and so it is interesting that it is women and
immigrants who brought this global thing to America.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
Yeah, I've I've been impressed and pleased to see how
outspoken I'd say the soccer community writ large, but especially
in WSL clubs have been around issues like the ice
raids and stuff, and I think it is kind of,
you know, staying true to your history.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, we're wrapping up here, but I do want to
ask you about the Men's World Cup. We're not talking
about it much on this show, and I think it
is so fraught before anything has been played, no games yet,
and yet between visas, between threats to some of the
countries playing, between actual war with some of the countries playing,
(30:56):
I'm not sure how the US is still a host.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I think it's hard to.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Imagine in the us being hosts, and yet I understand
that putting everything back in and starting over somewhere else
would be impossible this late in the game.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
What do you expect for those who are.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Listening to the show and are interested in men's soccer
as well? What do you expect to be watching and
seeing and what will be the biggest stories besides just
the soccer.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
Yeah, it's funny, I think, you know, there was so
much trepidation going into the Russia World Cup in twenty eighteen,
the Guitar World Cup in twenty twenty two. Those had
their own set of controversies obviously, to put it mildly,
and anxiety, and I think there was a there was
a sense that, oh, now we can sort of exhale
and go play a World Cup in a you know,
quote unquote safer, you know, part of the world where
(31:43):
we don't have so.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Many of these issues.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
And yet here we are again with a lot of
very you know, complicating circumstances that kind of get in
the way of just enjoying the sport. Right And but
as we mentioned earlier, FIFA has such an investment in
growing the sport here and that it's sort of too
big to fail. There was sword you know when in
(32:06):
terms in terms of pulling the plug and taking it elsewhere.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
When when when.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
The President was sort of suggesting that he might take
over Greenland, that was the one moment where I thought
that that's online that Europeans are not going to be
able to, uh will not tolerate, right if he attacked
a fellow NATO member. But it is you know the
fact that we are waging war against another country that's
qualified for the World Cup, that's that's pretty unprecedented. But
(32:33):
in terms of storylines, you know, when when you know
the tournament comes, there's going to be a lot of
you know, I still think joy and celebration in the sport.
There are so many countries that are coming to a
first World Cup ever, like Cape Verde. I mean people
there saying this is not just their biggest sporting moment
in their history, it's their big biggest moment in their
(32:54):
history period, right right.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Globally, who's Uzbekistan?
Speaker 5 (32:57):
And you have countries like like Norway that had not Scotland,
that have not been to a World Cup in a
generation's time. We do have the advantage in the United
States of having diasporas from most places. So I think
it was Obama famously once said there are no away
teams in the US.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
That's something that will help us no matter what.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
But I will be looking to see whether this is
a tournament that really captures the culture and the imagination
beyond you know, fans and stadiums and watching on TV.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
So parkening back.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
To the ninety nine you know, ninety nine ers and
that summer moment where the sport did transcend. You know,
it's it's fan base, and obviously now the fan base
is is considerably larger. But is it going to be
like the topic of conversation this summer that's unavoidable? Like
I think the jury is still out on that.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, And that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I'm sad that like the joy of some of those
great stories of the countries and the players from those
countries and the way the winds might impact them back home,
will be so overshadowed by the just incredible corruption at
the heart of it, with the completely idiotic Peace Prize
and the what we already I mean, FIFA is probably
(34:11):
if we were making a top five most corrupt, you know,
we got the NCAA mix and then we got the
IOC always wanting their say, but like FIFA is at
the top. I remember, I've been writing about FIFA's messes
for forever. Set Bladder used to say that the women's
game would be successful if they wore low cut tops
and tighter shorts. Like this is a place that has
had such problems in so many different ways. And now
(34:33):
the way that you know, Infantino is embroiled with Trump
confuses it even more. And then the tickets, people saying
they bought it one place, and then they've been tricked
because now they're seeing that their seats are actually different
than what they were told, the exorbitant prices, just the
potential for ice rates for families and fans coming Like
(34:54):
I just I think it might be the topic of conversation,
but not in the way that fans of soccer or
FIFA or anyone would.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Hope, and that feels ominous.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
I think it was John Oliver who said this organization
that I hate so much, FIFA, how can it produce
this thing that I love that we still managed to
love so much. But yeah, and I think one of
the things that Johnny and Fantino has probably overdone is,
you know, seduce Donald Trump and spend all of us
time wooing the head of the country and not spend
(35:25):
enough time doing the politicking with.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Local and state officials.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
And so now we see a lot of you know,
public transit systems and cities that are not necessarily that
excited to host the World cupanies. They feel like they're
being stiffed by an avaricious FIFA. And you know, I
think this is this was a miscalculation by Infantino. You know,
if you're going to take your tournament to Russia or
Qatar and you get the autocrat to become your best friend,
(35:51):
all your problems are solved.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
But the US is more complicated.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, it doesn't work that way here exactly well.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
And also a lot of those places are now worried
about whether the incredible investment it is to host these
games will be paid off because of the legs in
some of the sales and some of the potential for
people not showing up and drove the way that it
was expected because of everything else going on. It'll certainly
keep us busy this summer, and I am grateful that
(36:17):
Chicago is not a host. Uh andres, thanks so much
for coming on We really appreciate it, and congrats.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
On the book.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Thank you so much, sir, great being here.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Thanks again to Andres for taking the time, and don't forget.
You can now watch full length Good Game interviews on
the iHeart Women's Sports YouTube channel. We got to take
another break when we return. Good Conquers Evil Welcome back slices.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
(36:50):
get in the game every day too, So here's our
Good Game play of the day. Order a copy of
Andres's book, The Great Game. We'll link to it in
the show notes. And we love to hear from you,
so hit us up on email Good Game at wondermedianetwork
dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven
two two oh four fifty seventy oh And today's the
last chance to be eligible for the Raffle when you
(37:11):
donate to my Heir the Cheers campaign. You remember that
campaign helps kids get the audiology services and hearing aids
they need to stay in sports. So it's a great
cause and there's lots of great women's sports prizes in
the Raffle PWHL and Athletes Unlimited Goodies, Signed Jenny Finchball,
Phoenix Mercury and UCLA Swag Chicago Stars Tics so much
more so, We'll link to the site to donate in
(37:33):
the show notes, and don't forget to subscribe, rate and
review slaces.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
It's easy.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Watch the Onion purchasing Alex Jones info Wars site rating
ten out of ten chef's kisses It's almost too good review.
In twenty twenty two, info wars head troll Alex Jones
was found guilty in a defamation lawsuit brought by the
families of the twenty twelve Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting
after years of calling the shooting a hoax and labeling
(38:01):
the parents and dead children crisis actors.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Now if you're not.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Familiar, info Wars is known for promoting right wing conspiracies
for harassing innocent people and marketing boner pills and questionable
dietary supplements like Brainforce Plus. Jones was ordered to pay
a remarkable one point three billion dollar judgment in the
Sandy Hook case, requiring him to file for bankruptcy.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
In twenty twenty four, US.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Bankruptcy court ruled that info wars parent company, Free Speech Systems,
would be under the control of a court appointed receiver
and that the company's assets would be used to pay
off that massive judgment. While after an initial bid from
The Onion to buy it was rejected, a prolonged fight
has led to a second approved overture from the satirical
newspaper to license InfoWars dot com and its associated intellectual
(38:47):
property and takeover merch sales and other revenue streams.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
The newly appointed creative.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Director of info Wars, comedian Tim Hideker of Tim and Eric,
made a video rubbing the purchase in jones space, causing
him shirtless melt down from Jones That's worth the watch
and Jones fury over.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Losing his sight.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
The last couple of weeks has been one of the
more enjoyable find outs of any known around. The Onion
says Info Wars will operate as a digital platform and
comedy network whose profits will actually help repay the Sandy
Hook families who have yet to receive any substantial payment
from Jones. Onion CEO Ben Collins said of the acquisition
and plans to satirize Jones, quote, we are excited to
(39:27):
lie constantly for cold hard cash.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
But this time in a cool way. End quote.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
You could celebrate the schadenfreudi and suffering of one of
the very worst humans on Earth by listening to Ben
tell the story of the acquisition on Pablotory's podcast, Pablotory
finds out. We'll link to the episode in the show notes.
And I think I've said it on the show before,
but if you don't already subscribe to The Onion like
the print version, it is so worth the money. The
ads alone are worth it. Now it's your turn, y'all
(39:56):
rate and review. Thanks for listening. See you next week.
Good game, Andre's Good Game. The Onion You, Alex Jones
and all Sandy hook Deniers forever and ever and ever.
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(40:18):
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Alex Azzi and Bianca Hillier.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan,
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder, Lucy Jones,
Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer. Production assistant from Avery LOFTUS
and I'm your host, Sarah Spain.
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where, like Caitlin Clark,
we're flipping the script and demanding that all of our
listeners huddle together for.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
A quick pick you in the back.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
We can't see your face, sorority squats up front and smile.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Got it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
It's Friday, April twenty fourth, and on today's show, we're
speaking with Andrea's Martinez, the author of the new book
The Great Game, A Tale of two football's at America's
quest to conquer global sport. I got up with them
last week to discuss what it took for the US
to finally speak the language of soccer FIFA reaching American
audiences in the most ironic way, the surprising root of
the term soccer mom, and how women's soccer is a
(00:41):
US export despite the sport itself being an import. Plus
a last minute battle to choose your own adventure cleared
for the storm, and what's that? I see way more airtime.
It's all coming up right after this Welcome back slices,
(01:05):
Happy Friay. Here's what you need to know today. Let's
start with the PWHL, where there are four games on
Saturday to close out the regular season. The final playoff
spot will come down to Ottawa and Toronto, who are
coincidentally going.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Head to head at two pm Eastern.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Ottawa is currently up by three points over Toronto and
needs just one point to clinch a birth, so basically,
the Charge will qualify with either a regulation win or
any type of overtime result. Meantime, if the Scepters win
in regulation, they'll be tied with the Charge in the standings,
but will learn the tie break for the playoff spot
by virtue of having more regulation wins this season. Meantime,
(01:44):
Minnesota is locked into the third seed and the number
one seed, which also comes with the power to choose
one's round one opponent, will come down to Boston and Montreal,
with the Victoire heading into the weekend with a one
point lead to the NWSL, where the league is back
this weekend after being off for the April FIFA window.
Shout out to statistician extraordinaire and friend of the show
(02:05):
Jen Cooper for letting us know that this international break
featured the most NWSL call ups in league history, with
one hundred and thirty players representing thirty two national teams.
This weekend's slate of games get underway tonight at five
thirty pm Eastern, with Racing Louisville hosting the Orlando Pride.
Also tonight, the Kansas City Current travels to the Washington Spirit.
(02:26):
Kickoff for that one is at eight Eastern. It's been
a rough start to the season for both traditionally dominant teams.
The Current have just two wins and already three losses,
while the Spirit sit at just one win, three draws,
and a loss, with their lone win coming against BFC
just ahead of the international break. We'll link to the
full NWSL schedule in the show notes. Speaking of the
(02:48):
NWSL schedule, ESPNS Jeff Casou reported last week that the
league's board of governors is set to vote this month
on whether to flip the schedule to fall to spring
instead of the current spring to fall model. Now, most
international leagues use a fault to spring schedule, and MLS
is slated to match them by flipping its footprint next year.
But the biggest obstacle to the change is the weather,
(03:09):
with plenty of NWSL teams based in cold weather markets
that would make playing games in December and January inhospitable,
if not damn near impossible. In a statement to ESPN,
the NWSL Players Association said that a majority of players
currently oppose changing the NWSL schedule.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
The right question is not whether the league should flip
the calendar, but whether the right conditions exist to do
so responsibly. Right now, they do not. The ability to
navigate weather related disruptions depends on consistent control over facilities
and operational flexibility across clubs, and that standard has not
been met league wide. Our top priorities in any scenario
(03:46):
are protecting and promoting player health, safety, and performance.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
We'll keep you posted as we hear more, and in
the meantime, we'll link to Jeff's latest stories on the
topic in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
More soccer.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
The second season of the nslaka the Northern Super League
up in America's hat kicks off today. All six teams
are in action this weekend. Last year's champion, Vancouver Rise FC,
will be honored tonight during a game at home against
Toronto that's a rematch of last year's championship game. We'll
link to the full NSL schedule in the show notes
to the WNBA, where the league is announced its full
(04:19):
national broadcast schedule for the upcoming season with more.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Broadcast partners than ever before.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Two hundred and sixteen games out of three hundred and
thirty total will air on national networks. Indiana Fever get
the most national broadcast this season, with all forty four
games set to air nationally, followed by the Dallas Wings
with thirty six games, the New York Liberty with thirty five,
and the Las Vegas Aces with thirty three. We'll link
to the complete broadcast schedule in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
More WNBA.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
With training camps well underway, lots of new look teams
will get their first test this weekend with.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Some preseason contests.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And because it's twenty twenty six and not you know,
twenty twenty four, four preseason games will air on Ion
and all of the games will be available to fans
to stream for free on League pass YEP. Gone are
the days of watching preseason games via fans Instagram live
feeds progress. We'll link to the league's full preseason slate
in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
More hoops.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Seattle Storm Center Dominique Malonga has been cleared by FOEBA
to compete in the upcoming WNBA season, according to reporting
from ESPN's Alexa Philip who. You may recall that during
the WNBA off season there was a dispute between Malonga
and Turkish club vnor Bace. Just under a year ago,
Malonga signed a three year deal with venner Bach, but
in October, the Turkish club announced on social media that
(05:33):
she had quote unquote unilaterally terminated her contract without providing
a justified reason. Now, there were initially questions about whether Malonga,
who went on to play an unrivaled as a member
of BREEZEBC, would be cleared to play in the WNBA,
given that FEBA requires players to get clearance letters in
order to play in both the w and FEBA affiliated leagues.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Well, good news for storm bands. The Clouds have parted
and she is in. We'll link to Alexi's report in
the show Notes to College Hoops. On Thursday, Olivia Edwards,
a current high school senior and one of the country's
top prospects, announced she's committed to South Carolina ahead of
her freshman year. Now Edwards previously had signed with Tennessee,
(06:14):
but the six foot three forward requested a release from
her national letter of intent earlier this month when the
Lady Boles saw a mass exodus of players to the
transfer portal.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So now she's headed to play for Dawn Staley.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And by the way, Staley's game Cocks are the only
SEC women's basketball team to not lose a single player
to the transfer portal this year. Not only that, Staley
has now added Edwards and Texas transfer Jordan Lee. More
college hoops shout out to friend at the show, Shay Ralph,
who has reached a contract extension with Vanderbilt University after
leading the Commodorese to the NCAA Sweet sixteen and earning
(06:47):
AP Coach of the Year honors. In a statement, Vanderbilt
athletic director Candice story Lee said, Ralph is quote the
right leader to keep elevating our women's basketball program while
inspiring our broader community as we set the standard for
winn's athletics. Her well deserved recognition only reinforces what we
see every day. She makes teams better, empowers women, and
brings people together.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
We got to take a break when we come back.
Football in America is a story of women and immigrants.
We'll talk about it with Andres Martinez stick here.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Joining us now.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
He's the author of the new book The Great Game,
A Tale of two footballs at America's quest to Conquer
Global Sport. He's a special advisor to the president of
ASU's Cronkite School and professor of practice there. Former stops
include The New America, The Pittsburgh Post Gazette, The LA Times,
and The New York Times, where he was a Pulitzer
Prize finalist for his editorials on US farm subsidies. Born
in Mexico, educated at Yale. We met through my high
(07:49):
school track teammate and friend, the fabulous Victoria Jackson. And
now I'm in the inaugural class of fellows for their
joint venture, ASU's Great Game Lab. It's Andres Martinez.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Hey, Hey Sarah, great to be here.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Thank you, Thanks for coming on. Congrats on the new book.
How's the promotion going?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
You having fun talking soccer with all of us American
morons that are still learning the game all these years later.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Football is a game. Yeah, No, I'm having a blast.
I was in DC last week in New York. Had
a good conversation with Franklin four, who wrote the How
Soccer Explains the World back in the day, So that
was really fun. We talked about how much things have changed,
and yeah, I mean the other part of the book
is looking at it's a two way street. It's the
(08:34):
growth of soccer in the US, the US within the
world of soccer, but also our success at exporting some
of our sports. But all of which leads to the
fact that I think for the first time you could
say Americans are following and playing the same sports as
the rest of the world like a shared language, which
is novel in a way, because sport was one way
we used to express our exceptionalism as a country. It's
(08:56):
like similar to rejecting the metric system, right, I was gonna.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Say, I think it's hard for folks to believe though,
because youth soccer participation is as big as it is.
The NWSL has such rocket ship growth, the Men's World
Cup is about to begin on US soil. But soccer
used to be like the dippin' dots of sports in America.
It was always the quote unquote sport of the future,
but it never was fully arriving in the present, no
matter how much people hyped it up. And that's changed,
(09:21):
but not in the way that most sports come to
prominence here in the US. Your book does a great
job of sort of discussing soccer's arrival, and I want
to start kind of big picture to get to why
you're the person to tell the story of how soccer
came about differently, So tell me a little bit about
your childhood and why you felt uniquely qualified to write
this book.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Yeah, I don't know if you uniquely qualified, but I
definitely felt very strongly that there was something funky about
how the US engages with the rest of the world
through sport. Because I was born in Mexico, as you mentioned,
but I was raised in.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
A very American household.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
My mom was a gringa from Dallas, Texas who went
down to teach the American school. You know, I think
she thought it'd be a large a year or two,
but she met my Mexican dad and one thing led
to another and so it turned into more like a
thirty some year adventure. But you know, so I was
very fortunate to grow up in a bilingual, bicultural household
in Mexico. We visit family in Texas, and my parents
(10:16):
were very strict about us speaking English at home because
everything else was in Spanish. So I moved to the
States when I'm fifteen and thinking I'm not going to
have any issues adapting to a quote unquote foreign country,
because this was kind of like my other country. But
yet when it came to sport, it was as if
I had been dropped on a different planet. Now, I'm
kind of dating myself here because this was in the
(10:37):
early eighties and obviously now we're in a very different place.
But I think from that initial experience it left a
deep impression on me how important sport is and how
people connect to each other, to their geographies. But I
just felt like we were I couldn't talk to anybody
about the last World Cup or the next World Cup
(10:58):
out and there was nobody. You know, when you're growing
up in Mexico, you're connected to the same sports culture
as people in Korea, Germany, anywhere, you know, Africa, anywhere
in the world. And yet at that time, the US
was solely focused on these sports that you know, produce
domestic league champions that we go around calling world champions.
(11:19):
You know, to this day, you know, to this day,
our most popular athletes in our most followed sports league
never get to represent their country, like Tom Brady never
got to wear a team USA, you know, Jersey, because
there's nobody to play against But obviously, like things have
changed dramatically, and I'm so I really want to write
a book about what it means this change and why
(11:41):
and how we got connected to the rest of the
world in sport and on the on the soccer front,
it's it is a tale of changing demographics, immigration, but
you can't you can't overstate the role of the women's
game in connecting us to soccer. And then there's also
just sort of a the imperative of globalization and that's
(12:03):
like the top down American multinationals needed soccer to take
off as well.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, you write in the book and you talk about how,
you know, things changed in America and soccer started to
take hold in American society had been sort of in
a quote, this is a foreign thing to be resisted,
like the metric systems, socialism and esperanto. To suddenly will
shorthand the most typical suburban, white, upper middle class voters
as soccer moms. It really was a wild pivot. And
(12:29):
I actually had forgotten that the term soccer moms came
about because of politics. Can you remind us about that?
Because now it means much more about sometimes derogatory, often
just the idea of like a wife or mom schlepping
around kids today sports and it's not really always a
bad thing, but at one point it was really a
(12:49):
way of classifying a certain kind of person.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
I mean, to me, it's evidence of how quickly things change,
because when I first come to the nineties, there is
indifference or hostility, outright hostility to side, particularly on the
political right, and you had politicians like Jack camp saying
this is a foreign plot. And then you know, by
the time you get to the mid late nineties and
that phenomenon. And again I think what takes the foreign
(13:14):
edge off of soccer is the women's game. And this
is a wonderful story of unintended consequences, Like no one
if FIFA headquarters thought, oh my gosh, the way to
get Americans into soccer is by having girls and women play,
because at that point they didn't think girls or women
should play, right. But yes, I think the Democrat that
this term soccer mom. So again to me it you know,
if you talked about us quote unquote soccer mom in
(13:36):
the political context in the seventies or eighties, it would
have been probably like a bomb throwing foreign anarchist right.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Yeah, super left.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Yeah, yeah, trying to bring it all down and connect
us to some global government and adopt the metric system.
But by the time you get to the Clinton years,
I think I believe it's Mark Penn, who was a
well known sort of political demograph of pollster, and they
were just they were using that as shorthand to identify,
you know, suburban, upper middle class white you know, the
(14:09):
most mainstream, imaginable voters who are probably like, not that ideological,
not that engaged politically, and how do we get to them?
They can they're independent because they're just they can't really
be bothered too much by politics because they're too busy,
as they're saying, schlepping and kids around in the midivent.
And it's amazing to me how quickly like this term
(14:30):
of soccer mom, the shorthand for what most American suburban
families were doing on weekends was going to wreck soccer games.
I mean the pickup of kids playing soccer. And it
was most and it was led by girls. Post title nine.
I don't think there's ever been anywhere in the world
where a sport is picked up so quickly.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, a yso was everywhere all the time, and it
was an easy sport to have people start young, and
easy activity to put your kids in very young and
maybe take your hands for a little bit, teach them
about how.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
To be on a team.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I want to get to the to the post title
nine and the ninety nine ers team specifically.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
But you just made me think of something which is.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Of course, you know, the millionth time this has come
up in discussions about the US. But the way soccer
was demonized as a foreign threat, it's like we both
say we're a melting pot and embrace it and simultaneously
clinched so hard to protect against things from other cultures
that we don't dominate. And you mentioned the jingoistic way
(15:29):
we talk about our sports. We call ourselves world champions
for every league that we have, regardless of whether we've
just beaten national teams, we haven't faced a global array
of competitors. We've just beaten the other competitors or in
our own league, and we call them world champs. You know,
did the fact that the US would be inferior at
this thing that other countries had loved and perfected for
(15:50):
so long impact the desire to keep the sport out
of America? Or was it more just this isn't our thing,
so we can ignore it.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I think it's more.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
You know, if the aforementioned Victoria Jackson, your high school
buddy and my co conspirator on what we're doing with
Great Game Lab.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And professor of sport history at ASU.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
Yeah, she teaches this wonderful course on sport in US history,
and if you take her class, you learn that this
was a very conscious uncoupling, as Gwyneth Paltrow would say,
in terms of the US opting out of global sports
in the as far back in the late nineteenth century.
And you're right that it's a bit of a conundrum like, well,
are we a melting potter or are we not? And
(16:29):
I think one of the reasons why we doubled down
on playing our own games and not the games that
other people played was there was a lot of anxiety
in the late nineteenth century about well, what does it
mean to be American? Right in a country where everyone's
an immigrant. How do you express your americanness? And one
of the ways you did that was by not playing rugby,
(16:49):
by not playing cricket, but by picking up baseball and
developing an American variety of football. I mean, I almost
feel like you know, Ritianity has it has its schisms
with the different branches.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Break off football does too, right, and it's and that's.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Driven stint soccer.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
That is driven by elite universities.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
You know now that I watch NFL teams going to
play in like real Madrid stadium, it does feel like
a Protestant service and yeah, like cathedral or.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Just evangelizing for their own versions.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
So this goes on, you know, from there onwards for
like a century until we start seeing this convergence. But
it leaves us with this conundrum, which I do you know,
that's like, this is what I named the first chapter
in the book is is do we want to be
number one? Or do we want to be the only one?
And I think this becomes sort of a metaphor for
how the US engages with the world, right we because
(17:43):
you want to kind of beat the rest of the world,
but it's hard to do that, like in the NFL
case that I mentioned, if you're not playing the same sports,
and then you have to play catch up, right, because
you're not as good because you haven't been playing it.
And that's where the story of women's soccer so unique,
because women elsewhere did not play it, so we were
(18:04):
able to take a leadership role even though we were
late to embrace the sport.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
We kind of came in through a different door, right.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
American exceptionalism does sort of fuel a lot of if
we're not going to win, we will take the ball
and go home, or we will create our own things
and win them and then still pretend like we're the best.
But this is where the book is so fascinating to me,
because this is the sport that America fell in love
(18:31):
with because of women, women and immigrants, but in so
much of a way women and in the women's sports world.
Of course, we talk about how the ninety nine ers
did so much for women and girls in sport, but
maybe not enough about what they did for soccer overall.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
More than any one person.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Or team in US history, the ninety nine ers helped
finally break the dam and make this sport become something
that our country fell in love with.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Can you speak about their just overall influence?
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (18:57):
Absolutely, And I'm glad you bring this up because I
do think it connected the US to soccer forever more,
and not just on the women's side, but on the
men's side. You know that final in ninety nine is
watched by nineteen million people.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
That I mean that TV audience was enormous. It put
to rest.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Forever the idea that, you know, women's sports wasn't commercially viable.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I remember going to some of those matches. I went,
I was talking.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
I interviewed Julie Foudy and I told her I was
very excited to be watch or play Denmark. She doesn't
remember me being one of the eighty seven thousand people
in the stands. But you know, that summer it was.
It was the topic of conversation in a way that
I hope, you know, our Men's World Cup this summer
will be, but I'm not even sure it will reach
that level of I mean, every night on David Letterman
(19:46):
it was the political you know conversation, and it was
really quite you know that we had we had sort
of seen the evolution of this team. I mean, as
you know, through the entire decade, and it just culminates.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
In this They'd won the eleve and yeah, they went.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
Yeah, and they started off in China and ninety one,
you know, in the first sort of pseudo official Women's
World Cup where FIFA had this crazy name for it,
like the emin M's Cup, but that that whole team boy, Yeah,
I mean they weren't just the best at the sport,
but they you know, and they talked very eloquently about
(20:24):
how they felt a responsibility to help advocate for the game.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And you mentioned Foudy.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
She always tells the story, but it gets like I
get chills every time of them being in traffic on
the way to play at MetLife Stadium and looking around
and being like, we're going to be late.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
For our own game. What is all this and then
realizing it was for.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Them, something must be happening.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, And they had to fight for those stadiums. There
was so much disbelief in them billing the bigger places,
and they fought for it, sold it out and proved themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
And that is such a big part of the story
of women's sport.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You mentioned BEPA long coveting the US market, wishing for
more interest in sport from Americans.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
They finally get it.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
But there's an irony in women being the conduit for
soccer here because FIFA just didn't believe women should be
playing it. Like, how do you reconcile FIFA's view of
women's soccer with the views here in the US and
their response or a reaction to it being women that
finally got.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Us all on board.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Yeah, it's a wonderful story of unintended consequences, just like
title nine. You know, it's impact on sport as well, right,
because it was meant to be an educational educational nobody
really thought, you know, first and foremost about sport. But yeah,
and this is I mean, when I grew up in Mexico,
I talk about some in the book, like girls did
(21:40):
not play soccer. They played basketball and volleyball in my
middle school, and guys played soccer. And this, you know,
culturally around the world, soccer occupied the space that American
football occupies in the US, like the incumbent macho football,
and all of this is obviously very silly, and it's
(22:02):
just sort of a cultural designation, right I talked to
you know, I would tell American friends when I first
got here that I had never seen a girl play
soccer until I came to high school in the States,
and they would look at me like I was nut,
saying like, why what's more feminine quote unquote.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
About basketball, Like it's it's just the culture. Right, So, but.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
Post title nine, you know, American girls didn't face that
kind of headwind that girls in Mexico or Germany or
Korea who wanted to play soccer did because it was
the space was wide open.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
You know.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
We see some of this friction when girls want to
play American football, right in terms of like the incumbent
MACHOs belong punching back, right, But in many countries it
was outlawed. It was banned for women to play. You know,
it was this fantastic story of the nineteen seventy one. Again,
this was this was not recognized by FIFA, but it
(22:57):
was essentially a World Cup played in Mexico's city and
the stadiums are full. And interestingly, the United States didn't
participate because that's one year prior to title nine. Right,
there's a wonderful documentary about it where Brandy Chastain has
shown scenes of that and she's like, what is this?
Speaker 4 (23:15):
How did I not know about this?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah? I think she thought it was AI or something.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Right, I've talked about it, Yeah before COPA seventy one,
which everyone should go watch. But yeah, I mean it
is kind of fascinating. Remember it was maybe even just
eight or nine years ago, there was a really powerful PSA.
It was a silhouette of a player making all these moves.
They redid it again more recently with I think the
(23:40):
French national women's team.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
This was one player.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
It was one player in a silhouette and all these
insane moves, bicycle kick goals and beautiful footwork and all
this stuff. And they asked a whole bunch of people
in Brazil to identify the player, and they went through
these lists of all these names of men, and it
was Marta. But none of them would ever imagine, without
the context of it being women, that that's who it was.
(24:03):
And it just re emphasized in a lot of especially
Latin American countries.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
That it's for boys.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And what was always wild to me is to be
so obsessed with something, to have something be such a
deeply rooted part of culture and expect that only half
of you get to do it. I mean, it's I
guess not surprising, because misogyny is a hell of a drug,
but it always frustrated me, especially in those countries, that
they would be behind the US when it came to
women playing. This is your thing, this is the thing
(24:31):
that you think is the greatest thing on earth, and
you won't let us do it like ew.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
But now it's wonderful as I can go back to
my middle school in Chihuahua, Mexico, and plenty of girls
are playing, and there's a very vibrant professional league. And
this was this is this is a this is a
notion imported from the United States.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So, yeah, wild, isn't that crazy? Socer?
Speaker 5 (24:54):
Soccer is an import in this country, But the idea
of women playing soccer and professional you know, women's soccer
is an American accident. So it's been wonderful to see. Yeah,
and now we're not Now it's getting to the point
where we have been so successful and convincing the rest
of the world that women are to play soccer too,
(25:14):
that we're not going to win every tournament anymore.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Right, talked about this, Right.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
They're experiencing like the challenges of Serena Williams and Tiger
Woods that they faced at the end of their careers.
The young folks who grew up watching them and are
in the game because of them and saw themselves represented
are now beating them at the end of their careers.
You know, the US did teach the world how to
sort of invest in and uplift women's soccer, and now
countries like Spain are doing it even better.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Do you think eventually the US women will need to be.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Following the patterns of especially European soccer in order to
not be kind of middling like the men are here?
Or has Title nine given enough of a head start
that they can remain contenders no matter who else shows
up to play, and no matter whether they take gone
the like European club style and whatever.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Well, I think this this is a really fascinating question
going forward that we don't really have in any other sport.
Women's soccer is so much incorporated into like a global
ecosystem and the way that even men's soccer isn't and
our US colleges are are part of that system too,
again not in the way that it is in the
men's side. You know, Victoria and I watched Barcelona win
(26:24):
the European Champions League last May, and she was very
excited because there were three tar heels, right, there were
three three players who had who had graduated from.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
UNC, Victoria's first alma mater.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
You know, we have these these competing models where in
Europe now now that we've convinced them that this is
a sport that you know, everybody should enjoy. All the
old you know, century old clubs like Real Madrid and
Arsenal and Bayron Munich, they all are investing in women's
you know, the women's game in a big way, and
they have some some built in advantages when come compair
(27:00):
to their pros and cons right to the different models.
The NWSL, of course, they're not connected to these pre
existing larger clubs that have been playing for over a century,
and so it's going to be interesting to see which model.
I think Title nine gave us that lead in terms
of the NC DOUBLEA, And now I think, you know,
with the commercial success of the NWSL and its growth
(27:23):
and its investment, you know, it can probably hold its
own against those European clubs. But it's going to be
quite a contest. And so in the women's space, I
think FIFA's they postponed it a couple of times, but
they're launching this new Women's Club World Cup, just like
last summer they did on the men's side, and everybody thought,
this is an unnecessary gimmick because we already have the
(27:45):
European Champions League and FIFA just wants to take money
away from the European Confederation.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I think it's going to be fascinating.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Yeah, I think that's going to be the most interesting
international soccer tournam because on the women's side, you you
do need a place for this fascinating clash to occur
between the Casey Currents and the Chicago Stars and the
Arsenals in the Barcelona So that one I'm kind of
excited for now.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
The thing that's hard about it though, and we just
saw this with Gotham playing and not succeeding, is the
timing of it all. And the US is currently not
on the global soccer calendar, So can the NWSL keep
their own schedule and keep the top players? And also
when it comes to that Club World Cup, how do
you make it so that you're getting teams around the
(28:30):
same time competing and you don't have for instance, Gotham
who have just come off a championship in the end
of yourself right, want to be recovering, want to be healing,
and instead are you being sent across where they don't
play their best soccer.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I think that's going to be tough.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
Long term to sustain to have I noticed in twenty
eight they're saying this first Club World Cup will be
in January, but then you have you have the Olympics
that summer too, right, So I think it is very
hard to compete in a global contact and have different calendars. Again,
it gets back to the you know, are you a
metric or not? So I think those will probably have
(29:08):
to converge at some point.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, that was the twenty twenty six FIFA Women's Champions Cup,
which is not the same as the Club World Cup,
but it's one of the qualifiers.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Or something like that. Who can keep up with all
these things?
Speaker 1 (29:24):
But they it was like a little bit of a
mini precursor and it was tough because of timing. And
so I do think that, you know, Jessica Berman, the
commission of the NDIABASEL has been asked a couple different
times about whether they can stick on this calendar, and
it's something as the years go on, we'll have to
have to keep looking at, you know. For our purposes
of this show, we're focusing mostly on the role that
women played in helping Americans embrace soccer, but immigrants are
(29:45):
as much a part of the story. And it's kind
of funny now how the women's leagues like Angel City
FC are making shirts that say, you know, Immigrant City FC,
and are like leaning into pushing back on some of
the rhetoric from this administration, the anti ice protests, things
like that, because there is this feeling in women's sports
of embracing and aligning with other marginalized or disenfranchised groups,
(30:09):
and so it is interesting that it is women and
immigrants who brought this global thing to America.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
Yeah, I've I've been impressed and pleased to see how
outspoken I'd say the soccer community writ large, but especially
in WSL clubs have been around issues like the ice
raids and stuff, and I think it is kind of,
you know, staying true to your history.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, we're wrapping up here, but I do want to
ask you about the Men's World Cup. We're not talking
about it much on this show, and I think it
is so fraught before anything has been played, no games yet,
and yet between visas, between threats to some of the
countries playing, between actual war with some of the countries playing,
(30:56):
I'm not sure how the US is still a host.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I think it's hard to.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Imagine in the us being hosts, and yet I understand
that putting everything back in and starting over somewhere else
would be impossible this late in the game.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
What do you expect for those who are.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Listening to the show and are interested in men's soccer
as well? What do you expect to be watching and
seeing and what will be the biggest stories besides just
the soccer.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
Yeah, it's funny, I think, you know, there was so
much trepidation going into the Russia World Cup in twenty eighteen,
the Guitar World Cup in twenty twenty two. Those had
their own set of controversies obviously, to put it mildly,
and anxiety, and I think there was a there was
a sense that, oh, now we can sort of exhale
and go play a World Cup in a you know,
quote unquote safer, you know, part of the world where
(31:43):
we don't have so.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Many of these issues.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
And yet here we are again with a lot of
very you know, complicating circumstances that kind of get in
the way of just enjoying the sport. Right And but
as we mentioned earlier, FIFA has such an investment in
growing the sport here and that it's sort of too
big to fail. There was sword you know when in
(32:06):
terms in terms of pulling the plug and taking it elsewhere.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
When when when.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
The President was sort of suggesting that he might take
over Greenland, that was the one moment where I thought
that that's online that Europeans are not going to be
able to, uh will not tolerate, right if he attacked
a fellow NATO member. But it is you know the
fact that we are waging war against another country that's
qualified for the World Cup, that's that's pretty unprecedented. But
(32:33):
in terms of storylines, you know, when when you know
the tournament comes, there's going to be a lot of
you know, I still think joy and celebration in the sport.
There are so many countries that are coming to a
first World Cup ever, like Cape Verde. I mean people
there saying this is not just their biggest sporting moment
in their history, it's their big biggest moment in their
(32:54):
history period, right right.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Globally, who's Uzbekistan?
Speaker 5 (32:57):
And you have countries like like Norway that had not Scotland,
that have not been to a World Cup in a
generation's time. We do have the advantage in the United
States of having diasporas from most places. So I think
it was Obama famously once said there are no away
teams in the US.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
That's something that will help us no matter what.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
But I will be looking to see whether this is
a tournament that really captures the culture and the imagination
beyond you know, fans and stadiums and watching on TV.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
So parkening back.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
To the ninety nine you know, ninety nine ers and
that summer moment where the sport did transcend. You know,
it's it's fan base, and obviously now the fan base
is is considerably larger. But is it going to be
like the topic of conversation this summer that's unavoidable? Like
I think the jury is still out on that.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, And that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I'm sad that like the joy of some of those
great stories of the countries and the players from those
countries and the way the winds might impact them back home,
will be so overshadowed by the just incredible corruption at
the heart of it, with the completely idiotic Peace Prize
and the what we already I mean, FIFA is probably
(34:11):
if we were making a top five most corrupt, you know,
we got the NCAA mix and then we got the
IOC always wanting their say, but like FIFA is at
the top. I remember, I've been writing about FIFA's messes
for forever. Set Bladder used to say that the women's
game would be successful if they wore low cut tops
and tighter shorts. Like this is a place that has
had such problems in so many different ways. And now
(34:33):
the way that you know, Infantino is embroiled with Trump
confuses it even more. And then the tickets, people saying
they bought it one place, and then they've been tricked
because now they're seeing that their seats are actually different
than what they were told, the exorbitant prices, just the
potential for ice rates for families and fans coming Like
(34:54):
I just I think it might be the topic of conversation,
but not in the way that fans of soccer or
FIFA or anyone would.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Hope, and that feels ominous.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
I think it was John Oliver who said this organization
that I hate so much, FIFA, how can it produce
this thing that I love that we still managed to
love so much. But yeah, and I think one of
the things that Johnny and Fantino has probably overdone is,
you know, seduce Donald Trump and spend all of us
time wooing the head of the country and not spend
(35:25):
enough time doing the politicking with.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Local and state officials.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
And so now we see a lot of you know,
public transit systems and cities that are not necessarily that
excited to host the World cupanies. They feel like they're
being stiffed by an avaricious FIFA. And you know, I
think this is this was a miscalculation by Infantino. You know,
if you're going to take your tournament to Russia or
Qatar and you get the autocrat to become your best friend,
(35:51):
all your problems are solved.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
But the US is more complicated.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, it doesn't work that way here exactly well.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
And also a lot of those places are now worried
about whether the incredible investment it is to host these
games will be paid off because of the legs in
some of the sales and some of the potential for
people not showing up and drove the way that it
was expected because of everything else going on. It'll certainly
keep us busy this summer, and I am grateful that
(36:17):
Chicago is not a host. Uh andres, thanks so much
for coming on We really appreciate it, and congrats.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
On the book.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Thank you so much, sir, great being here.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Thanks again to Andres for taking the time, and don't forget.
You can now watch full length Good Game interviews on
the iHeart Women's Sports YouTube channel. We got to take
another break when we return. Good Conquers Evil Welcome back slices.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
(36:50):
get in the game every day too, So here's our
Good Game play of the day. Order a copy of
Andres's book, The Great Game. We'll link to it in
the show notes. And we love to hear from you,
so hit us up on email Good Game at wondermedianetwork
dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven
two two oh four fifty seventy oh And today's the
last chance to be eligible for the Raffle when you
(37:11):
donate to my Heir the Cheers campaign. You remember that
campaign helps kids get the audiology services and hearing aids
they need to stay in sports. So it's a great
cause and there's lots of great women's sports prizes in
the Raffle PWHL and Athletes Unlimited Goodies, Signed Jenny Finchball,
Phoenix Mercury and UCLA Swag Chicago Stars Tics so much
more so, We'll link to the site to donate in
(37:33):
the show notes, and don't forget to subscribe, rate and
review slaces.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
It's easy.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Watch the Onion purchasing Alex Jones info Wars site rating
ten out of ten chef's kisses It's almost too good review.
In twenty twenty two, info wars head troll Alex Jones
was found guilty in a defamation lawsuit brought by the
families of the twenty twelve Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting
after years of calling the shooting a hoax and labeling
(38:01):
the parents and dead children crisis actors.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Now if you're not.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Familiar, info Wars is known for promoting right wing conspiracies
for harassing innocent people and marketing boner pills and questionable
dietary supplements like Brainforce Plus. Jones was ordered to pay
a remarkable one point three billion dollar judgment in the
Sandy Hook case, requiring him to file for bankruptcy.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
In twenty twenty four, US.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Bankruptcy court ruled that info wars parent company, Free Speech Systems,
would be under the control of a court appointed receiver
and that the company's assets would be used to pay
off that massive judgment. While after an initial bid from
The Onion to buy it was rejected, a prolonged fight
has led to a second approved overture from the satirical
newspaper to license InfoWars dot com and its associated intellectual
(38:47):
property and takeover merch sales and other revenue streams.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
The newly appointed creative.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Director of info Wars, comedian Tim Hideker of Tim and Eric,
made a video rubbing the purchase in jones space, causing
him shirtless melt down from Jones That's worth the watch
and Jones fury over.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Losing his sight.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
The last couple of weeks has been one of the
more enjoyable find outs of any known around. The Onion
says Info Wars will operate as a digital platform and
comedy network whose profits will actually help repay the Sandy
Hook families who have yet to receive any substantial payment
from Jones. Onion CEO Ben Collins said of the acquisition
and plans to satirize Jones, quote, we are excited to
(39:27):
lie constantly for cold hard cash.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
But this time in a cool way. End quote.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
You could celebrate the schadenfreudi and suffering of one of
the very worst humans on Earth by listening to Ben
tell the story of the acquisition on Pablotory's podcast, Pablotory
finds out. We'll link to the episode in the show notes.
And I think I've said it on the show before,
but if you don't already subscribe to The Onion like
the print version, it is so worth the money. The
ads alone are worth it. Now it's your turn, y'all
(39:56):
rate and review. Thanks for listening. See you next week.
Good game, Andre's Good Game. The Onion You, Alex Jones
and all Sandy hook Deniers forever and ever and ever.
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(40:18):
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Alex Azzi and Bianca Hillier.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan,
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder, Lucy Jones,
Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer. Production assistant from Avery LOFTUS
and I'm your host, Sarah Spain.
Host
Sarah Spain
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