March 23, 2026 • 36 mins
Women’s hoops reporters Emma Baccellieri and Jordan Robinson join Sarah to chat about their new book Court Queens, which celebrates women’s basketball and the players and coaches who helped build its foundation. Jordan and Emma discuss their writing process, how they selected the most important moments from a century-plus of basketball history, and how they chose which nostalgic deep dives to share – like a quirky collection of WNBA-adjacent tunes that sadly never got re-upped for a second edition. Plus, the Badgers break the Buckeyes’ hearts again, winning while down, and March delivers on the promise of madness.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're defrosting
after a big Chicago Stars win over the Kansas City
Current on Sunday, and what can only be described as
antim antim like conditions survived three weeks of the Winter
Olympics only to die of tornado aided pneumonia in a
spring soccer game. Tragic. It's Monday, March twenty third, and
(00:21):
on today show, we'll be chatting with Women's Soups reporters
Emma Bachelrei and Jordan Robinson about their new book, Court
Queen's which celebrates women's basketball and the players and coaches
who helped build the foundation of it. We actually aired
a portion of this conversation focused on the WNBACBA negotiations
during last Tuesday's episode, but today we're going to bring
you the rest of the interviews, which includes Jordan and
Emma talking about their writing process, how they selected just
(00:44):
the most important moments from a century plus of basketball history,
and choosing which nostalgic deep dives to share, like a
quirky collection of WNBA adjacent tunes that sadly never got
re upped for a second edition. Plus the Badger's break
the Buckey's hearts again, winning wealth down, and March delivers
on the promise of madness. It's all coming up right
(01:04):
after this. Welcome back, slaceys. Here's what you need to
know today. Let's start with college hockey, where the Wisconsin
Badgers best at Ohio State three to two in the
National title game on Sunday, winning back to back national
championships with their third defeated the Buckeyes in four years.
(01:26):
That makes nine total titles for the Badgers and five
in the last seven years. Truly a dynasty on ice.
Wisconsin goaltender Aba McNaughton was named the most Outstanding Player
after stopping thirty four of the thirty six shots she faced.
The game also marked the last college game for the
dynamic defensive duo of Caroline KK Harvey and Layla Edwards, who,
(01:47):
along with forward Kirsten Simms, go out with the bang
in their senior season gold medalists and NCAA champs. It
was the always clutch Sims who actually secured the Badger's
spot in the title game. Wisconsin needed time to defeat
host Penn State in Friday semi final and reminiscent of
her ot heroics in last year's championship game, it was
Simms who found the back of the net. Meantime, the
(02:09):
Buckeyes advanced a Sunday's title game easily with a five
to nothing route of Northeastern on Friday. One final college
hockey note on Saturday, Harvey was named the winner of
the twenty twenty six Patty Casmier Award, given annually to
the best player in women's college hockey. Harvey is just
the third defender in twenty nine years to win the award,
joining Ohio State Sophie Jakes in twenty twenty three and
(02:30):
Harvard's Angelo Rojeiro in two thousand and four. Have a Year,
KK have a year to college hoops. After the first
two days of games, the NCAA tournament field had been
cut down from sixty four to thirty two, and by
the end of today it will be down to just sixteen.
The first day of the first round went chalk. All
the lower seeds took care of business to advance, with
(02:51):
a few top teams leaving no doubt. Number one seed
Texas routed Number sixteen Missouri State eighty seven to forty five.
Number two seed LSU of Viscera at number sixteen, Jacksonville
won sixteen fifty eight, and number two Michigan defeated number
fifteen Holy Cross handily eighty three forty eight. Worth noting
that with their loss to number seven NC State on Friday,
(03:12):
ten seeded Tennessee went winless in the postseason for the
first time in program history. The team's sixteen wins tied
the fewest in program history, and their eight game losing
streak to end the season was the longest in program history.
Needless to say, a lot of work to be done
for Tennessee in the off season. Meantime, Day two of
the first round saw a few upsets, including number ten
(03:34):
Virginia upsetting number seven Georgia eighty two seventy four. Number
nine Syracuse taken out number eight Iowa State seventy two
to sixty three despite thirty seven points from the Cyclone's
Audie Crooks, and after review upended a game winning shot
for Clemson in regulation. Number nine USC battled in overtime
to take out the number eight seeded Tigers seventy one
(03:56):
sixty seven. Freshman Jazzy Davidson had thirty one points, six rebounds,
and five assists for usc in that game, her NCAA
tournament debut. Also on Saturday, friend at the Show, MICHAELA.
Blake said thirty points to lead her number two Vanderbilt
team to a one oh two sixty one win over
number fifteen high point moving out of the second round.
Sunday's early action was highlighted by number four Minnesota's sixty
(04:19):
five sixty three win over number five Ole miss Amaya
Battles scored the tie breaking basket with just zero point
seven seconds left to give the Gophers the w and
their first Sweet sixteen appearance since two thousand and five.
The other four early games also went the way of
the favorites, including another blowout win for number two LSU,
who dusted number seven Texas Tech one oh one forty seven.
(04:40):
The win marked a new Division one NCUBA record for
one hundred point games in a season that was the
tigers sixteenth, and it was also senior Flage Johnson's final
game at Pete Marovitch Assembly Center in Baton, Rouge. Coach
Kim Malky subbed out Johnson early in the fourth quarter
to give her a moment with the crowd, who roared
in appreciation. Malkey and Johnson shared a long hug before Johnson,
(05:00):
who had twenty four points in the win, waved to
the crowd and wiped tears from our eyes. Now, we're
recording this episode ahead of Sunday's evening and late night action,
so we'll have takeaways on those contests in tomorrow's show. Also,
the second round continues today, with games starting at noon
Eastern and the three number one seeds in action in
the evening. Number one Yukon faces number nine c r
q's at six pm Eastern. We've got a fun USC
(05:23):
versus USC rematch at eight pm Eastern as number one
South Carolina faces number nine Southern California, and then the
nightcap number one UCLA taken on number eight Oklahoma State
at ten pm Eastern. All of those games are on
ESPN t D three Hoops. NYUS ninety one game win
streak came to an end on Thursday, as the Violet
suffered a sixty to fifty two Final four loss to Scranton,
(05:46):
nyused ninety one straight dubs, still good for the second
longest win streak in NCAA history, second only to Yukon's
one hundred and eleven game run from twenty fourteen to
twenty seventeen. Scranton, who boasted a thirty one in O
season record Saturday's championship game, went on to lose to
Dennison in that one, fifty five to forty one. Dennison
sealed that win by outscoring Scranton by fourteen in the
(06:08):
fourth quarter, clinching that program's first ever national championship to
the WNBA, where the league and union have officially signed
the term sheet for their newly agreed upon collective bargaining agreement.
The term sheet confirmed plenty of what was previously reported,
including a seven million dollars salary cap for year one
and average player salaries set to exceed five hundred and
(06:29):
eighty three thousand dollars. New highlights include details on increased
performance and award bonuses, a locked in guarantee on charter flights,
a new rule requiring that teams get consent from pregnant
players before trading them, and confirmation on the addition of
two new developmental player roster spots on each team. We
also got more info on league provided housing, which will
(06:50):
be given to all players for the next three seasons
and then to players making five hundred thousand dollars or
less beginning in twenty twenty nine and twenty thirty worth
remembering that housing is important in part because of the
difficulty players might have finding short term affordable leases, especially
in big cities. The new CBA also establishes a one
time recognition payment for WNBA veterans and retired players based
(07:11):
on years of service in the league. Active and retired
players with five to seven years will receive a thirty
thousand dollars one time payment. Eight to eleven years of
service earns fifty thousand, and twelve plus years of service
is awarded with one hundred thousand dollars. We're hoping to
hear more from some of the retired players who benefit
from this, but we're happy to see that the league
is acknowledging these foundational athletes who help get the w
(07:33):
to where it is now, and given some funds to
the veterans whose time under the new CBA might be
limited to the NWSL where the Portland Thorns are to
both our surprise and to friend of the Show, Jeff
Casoof's surprise off to a two and zero start to
the season on Saturday at Providence Park in Portland. The
Thorns defeated Cascadia arrival Seattle to nil, despite playing with
(07:53):
just nine players for much of the game due to
two red cards, yes, two red cards. Christine Sinclair and
Meghan Rapino were among those on hand to watch the
madness and help the Thorns set a new home opener
attendance record with more than twenty one thousand folks in
the stands. Things first got wild when Cassandra Bolgera was ejected,
leaving the game in just the ninth minute after receiving
(08:14):
back to back yellow cards fifty six seconds apart, but
that didn't keep Portland from maintaining offensive pressure throughout. Pietra
Torden scored the first goal of the game in the
twenty eighth minute, a header off an Olivia Moultrie cornerkick,
Then nine minutes later Raylan Turner made it to nil.
Then in the fifty seventh minute, Thorn's defender Rayner Rees
was ejected due to quote unquote violent conduct after video
(08:36):
review showed Reyes had pulled the hair of a Rain player.
So Portland ended up playing nine to eleven for more
than thirty minutes without allowing Seattle to score. In fact,
the Rain registered just three shots on goal during their
two player advantage, said Rain captain Jess Fishlock after the game, quote,
this game is going to be a really hard, difficult,
painful lesson for all of us. End quote. Rain coach
(08:58):
Laura Harvey noted it had been a tough week at
time travel for the team after they played their opening
week game in Orlando and had to deal with flight
delays and cancelations in both directions, and Seattle won't get
much time to process this loss or rest. They play
Kansas City on Wednesday at home, well, not exactly at home.
In January, the club announced that as part of ongoing
preparations at Lumen Field for the upcoming Men's World Cup,
(09:21):
the team would be playing a handful of home games
in Spokane, including Wednesday's game. Spokane is about a four
hour drive east of Seattle, truly a planes, trains, and
automobile situation for the Rain early this season. More NWSL.
On Saturday, Gotham FC tied the North Carolina Courage nil
nil and set a new Gotham home opener attendance record
for the defending Champs Rings ceremony game. Tierna Davidson was
(09:44):
back on the field and WNBA star John Qwell Jones,
famed director Spike Lee, and a handful of p WHL
Sirens players were in the crowd, But so was New
York Giants quarterback Jameis Winston, who got an interview on
ion and tons of social love from the Network, Gotham
and the NWSL. Now, for those who don't know, the
(10:05):
NFL quarterback is a credibly accused rapist who also groped
an uber driver, among other crimes. Women's sports. We do
not have to prop up problematic men just because they're
famous athletes. Part of changing our completely broken culture is
to stop being polite to people who are not owed
our kindness. The Epstein files and other atrocities occur in
(10:25):
part because we're worried about being polite and protecting the
feelings of shitty men. Enough, we do not need the
support of men like Jamis Winston, and we certainly shouldn't
allow ourselves to be used by them to try to
repair their deservedly shit reputations. Do better, Teams do better.
NWSL Back to highlights. Other high points from the weekend
(10:47):
include the Orlando Prides, Barbara Banda getting off the season
ending injury list, and back on the field, scoring a
birthday goal in Friday's one to one draw against the
visiting Denver Summit. Another player we're happy to see back,
Andy Sullivan, Washington Spirit star, back from maternity leave, made
her first NWSL appearance since October twenty twenty four. On Friday,
the Spirit drew against Racing Louisville two two in that one,
(11:09):
managing a comeback after Louisville led two nil after the
first half. Houston's Kiki van Zanten had a big weekend,
scoring twice to lead the Dash past the Boston Legacy
three nil and out. In San Jose, Angel CITYFC bested
BAFC three to one behind a huge game from spaindest
Yon's daughter, who had two goals and an assist. On Sunday,
a shocking result in the Chicago Star's home opener as
(11:32):
they bested defending Shield winners Kansas City two to one
behind goals from Tessa Deella Rose in the forty second minute,
her first professional tally Anne newly acquired forward Jordan Haidema
in the fiftieth minute, a beauty of a header for
her first goal with Chicago. A Jordan shining in Chicago.
Perfect not perfect the weather. After a beautiful Saturday in
(11:53):
the mid seventies, temps dropped and the wind arrived just
in time to give Sunday's game on the lakefront what
we like to call here in Chicago. Chicago bears weather.
My weather app said, thirty six degrees feels like sixteen.
Throw in some tornado winds and some rain. Thank goodness,
the team got us loyal fans a win. Let's head
(12:14):
to cross country skiing and the World Cup Finals, where
Jesse Diggins closed out the final competition of her career
by winning her fourth World Cup overall season title. She
clinched the Crystal Globe on Friday in Lake Placid, New York,
by finishing fifth in the ten kilometer classic race, and
then finishing ninth in Saturday sprint and twelfth in the
twenty k mass start on Sunday. After crossing the finish
line for the final time on Sunday, many of Diggins's
(12:36):
competitors lined up to hug and congratulate her. Diggins was
already just one of two North American athletes to ever
win an overall World Cup title, the other being American
Bill Coke in nineteen eighty two and now Diggins retires
with four of them. What a legacy to the pool.
The University of Virginia won a record setting sixth straight
(12:56):
NCAA Swimming and Diving title on Saturday. The Cavalier finish
the competition with five hundred and eighty nine points, two
hundred and eight point five points ahead of the second
place Stanford Cardinal. In total, Virginia one eight events, including
a sweep of all five relays. Virginia is now the
only swimming and diving program to earn six straight Natties,
and the Cavaliers also join elite company. Across the larger
(13:19):
women's sports landscape. Throughout NCAA history and all D one sports,
only six women's programs have won at least six consecutive titles.
LSU Track and Field leads away with eleven straight titles,
one between eighty six and ninety seven. Next on the
list UNC soccer, which won nine straight from eighty six
to ninety four, a span that includes the Mia hamm Era.
(13:39):
Maryland won seven straight lacrosse titles from ninety five to one,
and now Virginia swimming is tied with Stanford tennis and
Villanova cross country with six straight impressive shouts to Swimming
World Magazine for their story on this history, which we'll
link to in the show notes slices. We want to
send big congrats to friend of the show, the best
(14:00):
water polo player on Earth, Maggie Stephans on the birth
of her first child, Robert Stephen's Connor aka Bow. Also
good luck, Maggie. My husband and I babysat my nieces
all weekend and after three nights of playing parent, I
truly do not know how y'all do it like for real,
I'm seventy percent pizza and sugar and I need a
(14:22):
week long nap. We're going to take a break when
we come back. It's Emma bachelarian Jordan Robinson. We caught
up with them earlier this month, just ahead of the
release of their new book, Court Queens. Stick here joining
us now for a repeat visit. She's a staff writer
(14:42):
who focuses on women's sports and baseball for Sports Illustrated
and Soda for her substack, The Soda Fountain. A member
of the Baseball Writers Association of America, she previously wrote
for Baseball Prospectus and Deadspin. A Duke grad food lover, expert, traveler,
amtrack evangelist and co author of the book Court Queen's
Out March seventeenth. It's Emma Bachelari.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Hi, Emma, Hi, thank you for having us and for
that incredible intro.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I'm so glad you're back joining her, making her triumphant
fourth appearance on the show. She's co host of the
Women's Soup Show podcast alongside the legendary Cheryl Swoops. She
does weekly WNBA chats as part of the br Creator program.
She's fresh off doing interviews for Team USA Now and
covering the West Coast Conference tournament for ESPN. It's the
other co author of the book Court Queen's Out March seventeenth.
(15:28):
It's Jordan Robinson. Hi, Jordan, Hi, thank you so much,
so great to see you. Congrats on the book, ladies,
so exciting.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
A thank you. I can't believe it's finally here.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
I feel like we've been teasing it for so long,
but it's yes here, It's happening.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Well.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Em I want to ask what it felt like to
actually see it and hold it for the first time,
a real thing that people will be picking up in bookstores.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I was surprised at how emotional it meete me because
you know, by the time you actually get the book
in your hands, you have no only written it and
select all the photos and laid it out, You've gone
through edits, and you've gone through so many different PDFs
of here's how it looks, you know in the publishers
lay out, and here are five different variations of a
cover in slightly different shades of orange that you're supposed
(16:16):
to pick between. And you just have looked at so
much material for so long that frankly, you're kind of
sick of it. And so I didn't actually expect by
the time you got the package that I would have
strong feelings about it, but I really did. It really
was nice to open it and see this is an actual,
real book that we helped make.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
And I'll tell you from experience, going into a bookstore
that you know it's in is very cool. But going
into a bookstore just to see if it's there and
then it is like when I was traveling a lot
right after my book came out, I'd go into the
bookstores and airports and if there was one in there.
I learned this from Jamel Hill. I would secretly sign
it and take a picture and post and tell people like,
there's a copy in this bookstore in this airport if
anyone's coming by, and so to be like, I didn't
(16:56):
even tell this place to stock this book. They just
chose to. They like elected to put it in their
store without me having to badger them to do it.
That's when it really felt like a real book. Jordan.
I want our listeners to get the elevator pitch. So
what's the book about and why should they go out
and get a copy or twelve copies?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah, twelve copies.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
That part the elevator pitch is, you know, this is
our love letter to women's basketball, and this is for
women's basketball fans.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
New old, young, old.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Everything in between, because we go back to the eighteen
hundreds all the way to twenty twenty five. And it's
the perfect coffee table book because you can flip through
one take and look at all of the incredible photos
from you know, women with dresses all the way down
to their ankles shooting granny shots at the free throw line,
(17:51):
all the way to Asia Wilson screaming after an and
one the seventies. You get to see all these different
variations of uniforms. But then we also wrote these really
cool essays that tell the stories of women's basketball players
that maybe you've heard of and maybe you haven't, but
you can learn something new and you can be the
(18:12):
coolest and smartest person at the water cooler after you
look through and read this book.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I want to know what the workflow was like for
the two of you, because navigating the co author relationship
and what's the final edit and which word do we
want here? Which phat or do we want here? How
did that work?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I think we had a pretty good natural division of
labor here where we just picked our topics for the
whole book, which that was a like fun collaborative process
of just what are the most important things from the
nineteen seventies, how do we tell the story from everything
that happened before in eighteen fifty, going through that, coming
up with this master list of topics, and then we
just divvied them up from there, where you know, like
(18:50):
I'll take this, you take this. You know I already
know something about this, or I already wrote a story
about that, so you do this, and we just split
them all up and then had a pretty nice flow
between you know, we edited what each other wrote and
helped put everything together, and Jordan is much more visual
than I am, so she was a way, way way
(19:12):
more involved in way better than I was at trying
to start the layout process and the design of what
we handed to our incredible designer. So she definitely took
the lead there and I just like fumbled around on
canva and it was like this picture looks okay, but yeah.
Other than that, it was just kind of I'll take this,
you take that, and just went from there.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
When you went through the editing afterwards, did you try
to make a kind of universal voice or it sounds
sort of similar essay to essay, or is it clear
throughout that like this is Jordan, this is Emma.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I'm interested to hear, actually how you answer this, Jordan,
because I thought we had a consistent voice. But what
surprised me was when I gave it to my parents
over Christmas and they got to see it for the
first time. One of the first ones my dad went
to was like, oh, I bet you wrote this one,
and I was like, no, that's Jordan.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, because I didn't notice. I wasn't reading it trying
to figure out who was too. But I'm not as
miliar clearly, so I don't know if you can tell
immediately if there's some giveaways.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
I think that was the best compliment that it went seamless.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You know.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
There was only a few that I had my byline
on because I had already wrote the story and we're
kind of republishing it to be in the book, but
throughout we wanted it to have a singular voice, and
it just happened that going from essay to essay, it's
the same vibe that we kind of had talked about
before that we're doing this storytelling, but in a fun way,
(20:33):
and they're punchy essays, you know, they're not. Our original
idea was like do we want one chapter to just
be one long essay or do we want to split
them up per subject, per person. And so once we
decided to split them up, that's where we got to
pick and choose. And the passion just shines through no
matter who's writing it. So yeah, that was my favorite part.
(20:55):
The same with my mom too, going through it and
she's like, I love this one, I love this one,
And it didn't matter who wrote it, she loved them all.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
You know. I found the idea of writing a book
actually harder than the actual doing. It's just so daunting
to imagine the final project, but then you just sit
down and start writing and realize it's just one page
at a time. So I wonder how the process was
for you. Was it harder, easier as expected? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It really one of the hardest things here was there
was so much history that it was hard to narrow
down that I think, like you were saying, originally it
was kind of this thing of like, gosh, how do
we fill a whole book here? And it ended up
being more the opposite of we have so much we
want to say, there's so many cool stories and incredible
women and great photographs, and you only have, you know,
two hundred fifty to three hundred pages, how do you
(21:40):
actually cut it down? So yeah, it was a challenge,
but it was a very fun challenge.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
What about you, Jordan?
Speaker 4 (21:47):
For me, I can stay in the planning phase forever,
So I okay twenty Yeah, I had like twenty outlines.
I was like, okay, try and let's start writing the words.
So once I started, then it became fun. And it
(22:07):
was a mental battle too of like, okay, I'm writing
a book, do I have to change.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
My whole voice?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
What is my book voice, you know, like, what is
is it the same writing as I would do for
an Instagram caption for like, I felt like I needed
to change something, but no, I had to keep the same.
I went back and read a lot of things that
I've written before, just to like remind myself of how
I sound and some of my favorite work.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
And then once I started doing that, I just hit
the ground running.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, it's it's funny. Like at the beginning, I too
loved the procrastination part. I loved that I had a
lot of research to do because that felt much more
like something I could wrap my arms around. But then
after the ninetieth person I asked for advice said sit
your ass in the chair and start writing. I was like, okay,
I guess I thought writing about it's the writing of it.
I was honored to get to write a blurb for y'all.
(23:00):
So I got a first look at this fantastic book.
And I love the photographs. Like you mentioned, the shots
of the pioneers of the game playing in like floor
length skirts were wild. But so much nostalgia too, and
nostalgia for stuff that I never even knew existed. But
it hit me in a way that I was like,
oh my god, I wish I had been there live
to see Cheryl Miller dunk on stage during a Donna
(23:21):
Summer nineteen to eighty four Grammy performance. If she works
hard for the money? Like that sounds like a mad
lib and that is real. It is a clip that
I immediately googled after I read that in your book,
and I watched it and it was amazing. Yes. Also
the fact that there was a nineteen ninety nine WNBA
soundtrack called Divas of the Court Songs from the WNBA
Volume One. I mean, y'all, mind for some real gold
(23:44):
in this book, And I'm wondering if either of you
looked up that soundtrack and can name any of the
songs from that CD, which is available for purchase on
Amazon for seven ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Sarah, I bought it on eBay, Yes, and then I
was so excite. And then it came and I was like,
wait a second, I don't have a CD player. I
have nothing that can play a CD. So now I
have it like propped up on my desk as like
a cute little background thing, but I have not actually
listened to the CD.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Okay, I'm not getting paid by them, but I should.
One of my nieces is Taylor Swift obsessed, but she
likes to buy the CDs, and so she had this
old school CD player that her family found on eBay
and Crosley the record player, you know, the company that
sells like amazing records players has a CD player that
looks like a cool record player, like it looks vintage,
(24:35):
but it plays CDs instead of records. So you can
get yourself a cute little lavender colored Crosley for WNBA
Divas of the Court. Songs from the WNBA Volume one,
if you are inspired to listen to, for instance, don't
take it personal, just one of them Days by Monica,
which is a straight up banger, jump and jump in
by Destiny's Child. We got the beat from the Go
(24:57):
Gos Ladies, first from Queen Lativa, and of course the
song we all think about when we want to get
pumped up for basketball, Galileo by the Indigo Girls, which
is actually one of my favorite songs of all time,
clearly a throw in for the lesbians, but also like,
what that's not a basketball Songs of the WNBA Divas
of the Court.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
I love that there, it says, Volume one we don't
know if there was a volume two. I don't think
there was another one, so it was it was just
one of one. But we pretended that it was going
to be more of these sound I think they.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Believed it would be. And then someone was like, I
don't know if I need Sean Colvin and Queen Latifah
on the same CD. I think I'm good.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
I wish we could have recorded the day that we
stumbled across that.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Let me just say that eBay was a gold mine.
Emma bought a CD. Did you buy the Barbie too?
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Like?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I did not buy the Barbie, but I thought about it.
We looked at it. Yeah, when they made Wnba Barbie,
would it be cheaper for us to physically buy the
barbie and photograph it ourselves than he for the photo
rights of those pictures?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I mean, I love That's one of the reasons that
sometimes like I have stuff in my house and I'm like,
I don't really want to give this away or throw
it out. I feel like even twenty years from now,
it'll be like, whoa, this was what the first season
of Love Pro Volleyball look like, or this is you know,
year two of the PWHL, like we are in the
midst of being able to archive the beginnings of so
many things in women's sports that it's hard not to
(26:26):
feel attached, but also like, I don't want to be
a hoarder, so I got to find a good spot
to start, just keep some of the stuff that I
think will will last. Jordan, what's one of your favorite
like sections or topics in the book?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Oh, goodness, so many. I think one that always sticks
out to me is the WBL section. So the first
professional women's basketball league. Getting to talk to those players
they are a part of Legends of the Ball, which
is what they call themselves now, and Molly Bolin and
(26:59):
Liz Galoway and them just really putting me in that
time and describing what it was like to be accidental trailblazers,
Like they didn't set out to be these pioneers of
the game. They were just like, Hey, you know college
is inding, do you want to play pro in America?
And they're like, yeah, Like that sounds great.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
That sounds like the dream.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Even though it was so short lived, it really set
the precedent for what we have now and the WNBA
and Unrivaled and all these things started as ideas of
women's pro basketball leagues, so to not only be able
to talk to them about their experiences, the rivals them
brag about how good they were. That was probably one
(27:42):
of my favorite parts. They were hoopers and they say it,
and they tell you rats man crazy before the three
point line too.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Most of them like she was a hooper.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
So I love that they got a chance to brag
on themselves and share the stories and also the stories
of their teammates who made such a lasting impression on
the league and women's basketball altogether. So that was definitely
one of my favorites. And the team names, the jerseys,
the flyers that we have in here of like, I mean,
(28:18):
there was a team called the Minks and they were
sponsored by Mink Coats and like that was their roster.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
But tech are you kidding?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
The Dallas Diamonds were sponsored by a jewelry company like Maze.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yes, I love all of it. So that was really fun.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Deserved luxury.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
What about you, Emma, I'm about the same era for mine.
I loved talking to the women of Immaculada College, which
was the early nineteen seventies and kind of the first
college dynasty of organized women's college basketball, and just the
stories they had of what it took to play it
all to literally get to the NCAA tournament where this
(28:56):
was before you had big athletics departments that were seriously
sponsoring women's sports. And so they did like a bake
sale at school to try to raise some money, and
they got enough to fly stand by to the tournament,
and so the coach had like a list of like, Okay,
you know, we need a big we need some guards.
This is the order for which you can take tickets.
Oh yeah, that maybe not everyone gets to fly stand by,
(29:19):
So let's let's just see what happens and literally who
can get on this plane? Just crazy stuff like that.
Then in contrast with what they were doing on the
court and how good they were that you know, this
college in Pennsylvania, that so many of these girls had
come through the Philadelphia Catholic League, which had really great,
really competitive girls basketball in high school, and so they
(29:42):
were really great players. A lot of them went on
to do some pretty cool things afterward. But just the
contrast between what they were doing on the court in
the seventies and really like the legacy they left of
having that kind of first true college dynasty and the
conditions they were playing in and what they had to do
to literally show up. It was just really cool.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I think about and this never happened to me, but
you hear about people who were like I was last
picked for a team, and it's like a lifelong memory
that haunts me. Again, never happened to me, but I
feel like last picked and I didn't get on the plane.
I just was would be even worse than last picked
in class, but like, oh, I am absolutely last on
(30:24):
my team. I did not make the plane. It also
reminds me of Pat Summit, like washing all the uniforms
and basically having to do every job while being this
incredible exis and O's mind. And it also reminds me like,
you know, we talk about folks that are early at
least from my generation, you know, like the Dina Trossian
super that we're still playing until very recently, but they
(30:44):
can still look and say, like, man if I was
starting right now with nil with the WNBA, where it
is with unrivaled with Project Be with all these things.
And so you go back dozens and dozens of years
and you really think about how many great players nobody
ever really knew and ever will remember how great they were.
There's not video, there's not stats the same way, and
(31:05):
that's hard, but you're telling their stories, which is really cool.
Any big picture takeaways or kind of themes that you
were left with after telling over one hundred years of history, Jordan.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
I think the biggest takeaway is, you know, what we
hope the readers are taking away from it is that
women's basketball didn't start two years ago, like it didn't
start yesterday.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Kaylen Clark invented it, guys, you know, you know, actually
she did not.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
And that is my biggest takeaway that this game that
we love so much, that you know, I came in
you know, in the early two thousands loving it. It
was happening, and women were laying that foundation for years
and decades before. So that was my biggest takeaway that
the game that I love was loved by so many
(31:58):
women before, and it was such a joy and a
treat to be able to spotlight their stories. We wish
we could tell every single player's story like that was
another hard part about this. As we were writing it,
as we were going through edits history was continuing to happen,
like That's how much women's.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Basketball history there is.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
We had to finally hear from our editor like, okay,
we can't add anything after this day, because yeah, Asian
Wilson was gonna get another MVP and another championship, and
we would have had to keep updating it because that's
how great women's basketball is now, but also from decades before.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
So well, unlike the Divas soundtrack, we'll just have to
have a Court Queen's Volume two. So yeah, you've set
yourself up for a sequel. Congrats on the book. So
excited for everyone to get the chance to read it
and look at the pictures and then go out and
buy that CD and a CD player to play it.
Only thanks to both of you. Thank you, thank you,
(32:59):
Thanks again to Jordan and for taking the time. We
have to take another break when we return a bar
in Boston where everyone actually does know your name. Welcome back, Slices.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too. So here's our
(33:19):
good game play of the day. Pick up a copy
of Jordan and Emma's book Court Queen's we'll link to
it in the show notes. Also, remember to keep an
eye on how your brackets are doing in our March
Sliceness Bracket competition and also in the Welcome to the
March Madness Party bracket that's run by the Welcome to
the Party folks, Abby Wombach, Julia Faudi and Billy Jean King, which,
(33:40):
by the way, as of midday on Sunday, we were
tied for the lead with Coach Jackie, so we'll be
keeping an eye out for our bracket in that one
and talking so much shit at least while we're still
in the lead. You know, we always love to hear
from you, so hit us up on email good game
at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail at
eight seven two two four, and don't forget to subscribe,
(34:02):
rate and review just like producer Bianca. Take it away, Bianca.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
Everyone watches women's sports in Boston, rating one hundred percent
of TVs at the bar playing women's hoops review. The
Sports Bra, the world's first sports bar dedicated to exclusively
showing women's sports, is coming to Boston, and while the
brick and mortar bar isn't up and running just yet,
the folks in charge have been taking over other bars
(34:28):
for pop up sports bra events, and I went to
one this weekend to watch the Yukon game and it
was so fun. There were a bunch of dvs playing
different March Madness games, and during game breaks there was
women's sports trivia. Not to brag, but I won a
shirt for knowing the first woman to run the Boston
Marathon as an officially registered competitor.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
That's Catherine Switzer. And there were also folks there.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
From Simmons University because later this year the school is
launching the first women's focused sports man management graduate program
in the country, plus an undergraduate minor. So cool, you
might recall we mentioned that super Slice Aaron raw just
got accepted into that program. And speaking of Slices, I
met another Slice at the bar. Slice Jen let me
(35:16):
and my friends join her table, and she overheard us
talking about some of our recent episodes here a good
game with college basketball players, so she chimed into the conversation.
As an avid fan, she said she listens every day
and she loved the Olympic coverage and she loves a
good game, good game, few moment at the end. So
nice to meet you, Jen, if you're listening, and so
(35:37):
fun to meet the Sports Bra Boston team highly recommend
checking out their pop ups if you're in the area,
and hopefully we hear some news soon about a permanent space.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Oh my god, so fun. I'm so jealous. I was
hanging out with children trying to watch as many games
as possible while pretending to be paying attention to them.
Now it's your turn, y'all, rate and review. Thanks for listening,
see them. Good game, Jordan and Emma. Good game, Wisconsin Hockey, You,
Chicago Weather, get it together. As of Friday, it's spring Spring.
(36:14):
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzi and Bianca Hillier. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Lucy Jones, Britney Martinez, and
(36:36):
Gianna Palmer. Production assistants from Avery Loftus and I'm Your
Host Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're defrosting
after a big Chicago Stars win over the Kansas City
Current on Sunday, and what can only be described as
antim antim like conditions survived three weeks of the Winter
Olympics only to die of tornado aided pneumonia in a
spring soccer game. Tragic. It's Monday, March twenty third, and
(00:21):
on today show, we'll be chatting with Women's Soups reporters
Emma Bachelrei and Jordan Robinson about their new book, Court
Queen's which celebrates women's basketball and the players and coaches
who helped build the foundation of it. We actually aired
a portion of this conversation focused on the WNBACBA negotiations
during last Tuesday's episode, but today we're going to bring
you the rest of the interviews, which includes Jordan and
Emma talking about their writing process, how they selected just
(00:44):
the most important moments from a century plus of basketball history,
and choosing which nostalgic deep dives to share, like a
quirky collection of WNBA adjacent tunes that sadly never got
re upped for a second edition. Plus the Badger's break
the Buckey's hearts again, winning wealth down, and March delivers
on the promise of madness. It's all coming up right
(01:04):
after this. Welcome back, slaceys. Here's what you need to
know today. Let's start with college hockey, where the Wisconsin
Badgers best at Ohio State three to two in the
National title game on Sunday, winning back to back national
championships with their third defeated the Buckeyes in four years.
(01:26):
That makes nine total titles for the Badgers and five
in the last seven years. Truly a dynasty on ice.
Wisconsin goaltender Aba McNaughton was named the most Outstanding Player
after stopping thirty four of the thirty six shots she faced.
The game also marked the last college game for the
dynamic defensive duo of Caroline KK Harvey and Layla Edwards, who,
(01:47):
along with forward Kirsten Simms, go out with the bang
in their senior season gold medalists and NCAA champs. It
was the always clutch Sims who actually secured the Badger's
spot in the title game. Wisconsin needed time to defeat
host Penn State in Friday semi final and reminiscent of
her ot heroics in last year's championship game, it was
Simms who found the back of the net. Meantime, the
(02:09):
Buckeyes advanced a Sunday's title game easily with a five
to nothing route of Northeastern on Friday. One final college
hockey note on Saturday, Harvey was named the winner of
the twenty twenty six Patty Casmier Award, given annually to
the best player in women's college hockey. Harvey is just
the third defender in twenty nine years to win the award,
joining Ohio State Sophie Jakes in twenty twenty three and
(02:30):
Harvard's Angelo Rojeiro in two thousand and four. Have a Year,
KK have a year to college hoops. After the first
two days of games, the NCAA tournament field had been
cut down from sixty four to thirty two, and by
the end of today it will be down to just sixteen.
The first day of the first round went chalk. All
the lower seeds took care of business to advance, with
(02:51):
a few top teams leaving no doubt. Number one seed
Texas routed Number sixteen Missouri State eighty seven to forty five.
Number two seed LSU of Viscera at number sixteen, Jacksonville
won sixteen fifty eight, and number two Michigan defeated number
fifteen Holy Cross handily eighty three forty eight. Worth noting
that with their loss to number seven NC State on Friday,
(03:12):
ten seeded Tennessee went winless in the postseason for the
first time in program history. The team's sixteen wins tied
the fewest in program history, and their eight game losing
streak to end the season was the longest in program history.
Needless to say, a lot of work to be done
for Tennessee in the off season. Meantime, Day two of
the first round saw a few upsets, including number ten
(03:34):
Virginia upsetting number seven Georgia eighty two seventy four. Number
nine Syracuse taken out number eight Iowa State seventy two
to sixty three despite thirty seven points from the Cyclone's
Audie Crooks, and after review upended a game winning shot
for Clemson in regulation. Number nine USC battled in overtime
to take out the number eight seeded Tigers seventy one
(03:56):
sixty seven. Freshman Jazzy Davidson had thirty one points, six rebounds,
and five assists for usc in that game, her NCAA
tournament debut. Also on Saturday, friend at the Show, MICHAELA.
Blake said thirty points to lead her number two Vanderbilt
team to a one oh two sixty one win over
number fifteen high point moving out of the second round.
Sunday's early action was highlighted by number four Minnesota's sixty
(04:19):
five sixty three win over number five Ole miss Amaya
Battles scored the tie breaking basket with just zero point
seven seconds left to give the Gophers the w and
their first Sweet sixteen appearance since two thousand and five.
The other four early games also went the way of
the favorites, including another blowout win for number two LSU,
who dusted number seven Texas Tech one oh one forty seven.
(04:40):
The win marked a new Division one NCUBA record for
one hundred point games in a season that was the
tigers sixteenth, and it was also senior Flage Johnson's final
game at Pete Marovitch Assembly Center in Baton, Rouge. Coach
Kim Malky subbed out Johnson early in the fourth quarter
to give her a moment with the crowd, who roared
in appreciation. Malkey and Johnson shared a long hug before Johnson,
(05:00):
who had twenty four points in the win, waved to
the crowd and wiped tears from our eyes. Now, we're
recording this episode ahead of Sunday's evening and late night action,
so we'll have takeaways on those contests in tomorrow's show. Also,
the second round continues today, with games starting at noon
Eastern and the three number one seeds in action in
the evening. Number one Yukon faces number nine c r
q's at six pm Eastern. We've got a fun USC
(05:23):
versus USC rematch at eight pm Eastern as number one
South Carolina faces number nine Southern California, and then the
nightcap number one UCLA taken on number eight Oklahoma State
at ten pm Eastern. All of those games are on
ESPN t D three Hoops. NYUS ninety one game win
streak came to an end on Thursday, as the Violet
suffered a sixty to fifty two Final four loss to Scranton,
(05:46):
nyused ninety one straight dubs, still good for the second
longest win streak in NCAA history, second only to Yukon's
one hundred and eleven game run from twenty fourteen to
twenty seventeen. Scranton, who boasted a thirty one in O
season record Saturday's championship game, went on to lose to
Dennison in that one, fifty five to forty one. Dennison
sealed that win by outscoring Scranton by fourteen in the
(06:08):
fourth quarter, clinching that program's first ever national championship to
the WNBA, where the league and union have officially signed
the term sheet for their newly agreed upon collective bargaining agreement.
The term sheet confirmed plenty of what was previously reported,
including a seven million dollars salary cap for year one
and average player salaries set to exceed five hundred and
(06:29):
eighty three thousand dollars. New highlights include details on increased
performance and award bonuses, a locked in guarantee on charter flights,
a new rule requiring that teams get consent from pregnant
players before trading them, and confirmation on the addition of
two new developmental player roster spots on each team. We
also got more info on league provided housing, which will
(06:50):
be given to all players for the next three seasons
and then to players making five hundred thousand dollars or
less beginning in twenty twenty nine and twenty thirty worth
remembering that housing is important in part because of the
difficulty players might have finding short term affordable leases, especially
in big cities. The new CBA also establishes a one
time recognition payment for WNBA veterans and retired players based
(07:11):
on years of service in the league. Active and retired
players with five to seven years will receive a thirty
thousand dollars one time payment. Eight to eleven years of
service earns fifty thousand, and twelve plus years of service
is awarded with one hundred thousand dollars. We're hoping to
hear more from some of the retired players who benefit
from this, but we're happy to see that the league
is acknowledging these foundational athletes who help get the w
(07:33):
to where it is now, and given some funds to
the veterans whose time under the new CBA might be
limited to the NWSL where the Portland Thorns are to
both our surprise and to friend of the Show, Jeff
Casoof's surprise off to a two and zero start to
the season on Saturday at Providence Park in Portland. The
Thorns defeated Cascadia arrival Seattle to nil, despite playing with
(07:53):
just nine players for much of the game due to
two red cards, yes, two red cards. Christine Sinclair and
Meghan Rapino were among those on hand to watch the
madness and help the Thorns set a new home opener
attendance record with more than twenty one thousand folks in
the stands. Things first got wild when Cassandra Bolgera was ejected,
leaving the game in just the ninth minute after receiving
(08:14):
back to back yellow cards fifty six seconds apart, but
that didn't keep Portland from maintaining offensive pressure throughout. Pietra
Torden scored the first goal of the game in the
twenty eighth minute, a header off an Olivia Moultrie cornerkick,
Then nine minutes later Raylan Turner made it to nil.
Then in the fifty seventh minute, Thorn's defender Rayner Rees
was ejected due to quote unquote violent conduct after video
(08:36):
review showed Reyes had pulled the hair of a Rain player.
So Portland ended up playing nine to eleven for more
than thirty minutes without allowing Seattle to score. In fact,
the Rain registered just three shots on goal during their
two player advantage, said Rain captain Jess Fishlock after the game, quote,
this game is going to be a really hard, difficult,
painful lesson for all of us. End quote. Rain coach
(08:58):
Laura Harvey noted it had been a tough week at
time travel for the team after they played their opening
week game in Orlando and had to deal with flight
delays and cancelations in both directions, and Seattle won't get
much time to process this loss or rest. They play
Kansas City on Wednesday at home, well, not exactly at home.
In January, the club announced that as part of ongoing
preparations at Lumen Field for the upcoming Men's World Cup,
(09:21):
the team would be playing a handful of home games
in Spokane, including Wednesday's game. Spokane is about a four
hour drive east of Seattle, truly a planes, trains, and
automobile situation for the Rain early this season. More NWSL.
On Saturday, Gotham FC tied the North Carolina Courage nil
nil and set a new Gotham home opener attendance record
for the defending Champs Rings ceremony game. Tierna Davidson was
(09:44):
back on the field and WNBA star John Qwell Jones,
famed director Spike Lee, and a handful of p WHL
Sirens players were in the crowd, But so was New
York Giants quarterback Jameis Winston, who got an interview on
ion and tons of social love from the Network, Gotham
and the NWSL. Now, for those who don't know, the
(10:05):
NFL quarterback is a credibly accused rapist who also groped
an uber driver, among other crimes. Women's sports. We do
not have to prop up problematic men just because they're
famous athletes. Part of changing our completely broken culture is
to stop being polite to people who are not owed
our kindness. The Epstein files and other atrocities occur in
(10:25):
part because we're worried about being polite and protecting the
feelings of shitty men. Enough, we do not need the
support of men like Jamis Winston, and we certainly shouldn't
allow ourselves to be used by them to try to
repair their deservedly shit reputations. Do better, Teams do better.
NWSL Back to highlights. Other high points from the weekend
(10:47):
include the Orlando Prides, Barbara Banda getting off the season
ending injury list, and back on the field, scoring a
birthday goal in Friday's one to one draw against the
visiting Denver Summit. Another player we're happy to see back,
Andy Sullivan, Washington Spirit star, back from maternity leave, made
her first NWSL appearance since October twenty twenty four. On Friday,
the Spirit drew against Racing Louisville two two in that one,
(11:09):
managing a comeback after Louisville led two nil after the
first half. Houston's Kiki van Zanten had a big weekend,
scoring twice to lead the Dash past the Boston Legacy
three nil and out. In San Jose, Angel CITYFC bested
BAFC three to one behind a huge game from spaindest
Yon's daughter, who had two goals and an assist. On Sunday,
a shocking result in the Chicago Star's home opener as
(11:32):
they bested defending Shield winners Kansas City two to one
behind goals from Tessa Deella Rose in the forty second minute,
her first professional tally Anne newly acquired forward Jordan Haidema
in the fiftieth minute, a beauty of a header for
her first goal with Chicago. A Jordan shining in Chicago.
Perfect not perfect the weather. After a beautiful Saturday in
(11:53):
the mid seventies, temps dropped and the wind arrived just
in time to give Sunday's game on the lakefront what
we like to call here in Chicago. Chicago bears weather.
My weather app said, thirty six degrees feels like sixteen.
Throw in some tornado winds and some rain. Thank goodness,
the team got us loyal fans a win. Let's head
(12:14):
to cross country skiing and the World Cup Finals, where
Jesse Diggins closed out the final competition of her career
by winning her fourth World Cup overall season title. She
clinched the Crystal Globe on Friday in Lake Placid, New York,
by finishing fifth in the ten kilometer classic race, and
then finishing ninth in Saturday sprint and twelfth in the
twenty k mass start on Sunday. After crossing the finish
line for the final time on Sunday, many of Diggins's
(12:36):
competitors lined up to hug and congratulate her. Diggins was
already just one of two North American athletes to ever
win an overall World Cup title, the other being American
Bill Coke in nineteen eighty two and now Diggins retires
with four of them. What a legacy to the pool.
The University of Virginia won a record setting sixth straight
(12:56):
NCAA Swimming and Diving title on Saturday. The Cavalier finish
the competition with five hundred and eighty nine points, two
hundred and eight point five points ahead of the second
place Stanford Cardinal. In total, Virginia one eight events, including
a sweep of all five relays. Virginia is now the
only swimming and diving program to earn six straight Natties,
and the Cavaliers also join elite company. Across the larger
(13:19):
women's sports landscape. Throughout NCAA history and all D one sports,
only six women's programs have won at least six consecutive titles.
LSU Track and Field leads away with eleven straight titles,
one between eighty six and ninety seven. Next on the
list UNC soccer, which won nine straight from eighty six
to ninety four, a span that includes the Mia hamm Era.
(13:39):
Maryland won seven straight lacrosse titles from ninety five to one,
and now Virginia swimming is tied with Stanford tennis and
Villanova cross country with six straight impressive shouts to Swimming
World Magazine for their story on this history, which we'll
link to in the show notes slices. We want to
send big congrats to friend of the show, the best
(14:00):
water polo player on Earth, Maggie Stephans on the birth
of her first child, Robert Stephen's Connor aka Bow. Also
good luck, Maggie. My husband and I babysat my nieces
all weekend and after three nights of playing parent, I
truly do not know how y'all do it like for real,
I'm seventy percent pizza and sugar and I need a
(14:22):
week long nap. We're going to take a break when
we come back. It's Emma bachelarian Jordan Robinson. We caught
up with them earlier this month, just ahead of the
release of their new book, Court Queens. Stick here joining
us now for a repeat visit. She's a staff writer
(14:42):
who focuses on women's sports and baseball for Sports Illustrated
and Soda for her substack, The Soda Fountain. A member
of the Baseball Writers Association of America, she previously wrote
for Baseball Prospectus and Deadspin. A Duke grad food lover, expert, traveler,
amtrack evangelist and co author of the book Court Queen's
Out March seventeenth. It's Emma Bachelari.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Hi, Emma, Hi, thank you for having us and for
that incredible intro.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I'm so glad you're back joining her, making her triumphant
fourth appearance on the show. She's co host of the
Women's Soup Show podcast alongside the legendary Cheryl Swoops. She
does weekly WNBA chats as part of the br Creator program.
She's fresh off doing interviews for Team USA Now and
covering the West Coast Conference tournament for ESPN. It's the
other co author of the book Court Queen's Out March seventeenth.
(15:28):
It's Jordan Robinson. Hi, Jordan, Hi, thank you so much,
so great to see you. Congrats on the book, ladies,
so exciting.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
A thank you. I can't believe it's finally here.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
I feel like we've been teasing it for so long,
but it's yes here, It's happening.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Well.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Em I want to ask what it felt like to
actually see it and hold it for the first time,
a real thing that people will be picking up in bookstores.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I was surprised at how emotional it meete me because
you know, by the time you actually get the book
in your hands, you have no only written it and
select all the photos and laid it out, You've gone
through edits, and you've gone through so many different PDFs
of here's how it looks, you know in the publishers
lay out, and here are five different variations of a
cover in slightly different shades of orange that you're supposed
(16:16):
to pick between. And you just have looked at so
much material for so long that frankly, you're kind of
sick of it. And so I didn't actually expect by
the time you got the package that I would have
strong feelings about it, but I really did. It really
was nice to open it and see this is an actual,
real book that we helped make.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
And I'll tell you from experience, going into a bookstore
that you know it's in is very cool. But going
into a bookstore just to see if it's there and
then it is like when I was traveling a lot
right after my book came out, I'd go into the
bookstores and airports and if there was one in there.
I learned this from Jamel Hill. I would secretly sign
it and take a picture and post and tell people like,
there's a copy in this bookstore in this airport if
anyone's coming by, and so to be like, I didn't
(16:56):
even tell this place to stock this book. They just
chose to. They like elected to put it in their
store without me having to badger them to do it.
That's when it really felt like a real book. Jordan.
I want our listeners to get the elevator pitch. So
what's the book about and why should they go out
and get a copy or twelve copies?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah, twelve copies.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
That part the elevator pitch is, you know, this is
our love letter to women's basketball, and this is for
women's basketball fans.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
New old, young, old.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Everything in between, because we go back to the eighteen
hundreds all the way to twenty twenty five. And it's
the perfect coffee table book because you can flip through
one take and look at all of the incredible photos
from you know, women with dresses all the way down
to their ankles shooting granny shots at the free throw line,
(17:51):
all the way to Asia Wilson screaming after an and
one the seventies. You get to see all these different
variations of uniforms. But then we also wrote these really
cool essays that tell the stories of women's basketball players
that maybe you've heard of and maybe you haven't, but
you can learn something new and you can be the
(18:12):
coolest and smartest person at the water cooler after you
look through and read this book.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I want to know what the workflow was like for
the two of you, because navigating the co author relationship
and what's the final edit and which word do we
want here? Which phat or do we want here? How
did that work?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I think we had a pretty good natural division of
labor here where we just picked our topics for the
whole book, which that was a like fun collaborative process
of just what are the most important things from the
nineteen seventies, how do we tell the story from everything
that happened before in eighteen fifty, going through that, coming
up with this master list of topics, and then we
just divvied them up from there, where you know, like
(18:50):
I'll take this, you take this. You know I already
know something about this, or I already wrote a story
about that, so you do this, and we just split
them all up and then had a pretty nice flow
between you know, we edited what each other wrote and
helped put everything together, and Jordan is much more visual
than I am, so she was a way, way way
(19:12):
more involved in way better than I was at trying
to start the layout process and the design of what
we handed to our incredible designer. So she definitely took
the lead there and I just like fumbled around on
canva and it was like this picture looks okay, but yeah.
Other than that, it was just kind of I'll take this,
you take that, and just went from there.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
When you went through the editing afterwards, did you try
to make a kind of universal voice or it sounds
sort of similar essay to essay, or is it clear
throughout that like this is Jordan, this is Emma.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I'm interested to hear, actually how you answer this, Jordan,
because I thought we had a consistent voice. But what
surprised me was when I gave it to my parents
over Christmas and they got to see it for the
first time. One of the first ones my dad went
to was like, oh, I bet you wrote this one,
and I was like, no, that's Jordan.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, because I didn't notice. I wasn't reading it trying
to figure out who was too. But I'm not as
miliar clearly, so I don't know if you can tell
immediately if there's some giveaways.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
I think that was the best compliment that it went seamless.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You know.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
There was only a few that I had my byline
on because I had already wrote the story and we're
kind of republishing it to be in the book, but
throughout we wanted it to have a singular voice, and
it just happened that going from essay to essay, it's
the same vibe that we kind of had talked about
before that we're doing this storytelling, but in a fun way,
(20:33):
and they're punchy essays, you know, they're not. Our original
idea was like do we want one chapter to just
be one long essay or do we want to split
them up per subject, per person. And so once we
decided to split them up, that's where we got to
pick and choose. And the passion just shines through no
matter who's writing it. So yeah, that was my favorite part.
(20:55):
The same with my mom too, going through it and
she's like, I love this one, I love this one,
And it didn't matter who wrote it, she loved them all.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
You know. I found the idea of writing a book
actually harder than the actual doing. It's just so daunting
to imagine the final project, but then you just sit
down and start writing and realize it's just one page
at a time. So I wonder how the process was
for you. Was it harder, easier as expected? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It really one of the hardest things here was there
was so much history that it was hard to narrow
down that I think, like you were saying, originally it
was kind of this thing of like, gosh, how do
we fill a whole book here? And it ended up
being more the opposite of we have so much we
want to say, there's so many cool stories and incredible
women and great photographs, and you only have, you know,
two hundred fifty to three hundred pages, how do you
(21:40):
actually cut it down? So yeah, it was a challenge,
but it was a very fun challenge.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
What about you, Jordan?
Speaker 4 (21:47):
For me, I can stay in the planning phase forever,
So I okay twenty Yeah, I had like twenty outlines.
I was like, okay, try and let's start writing the words.
So once I started, then it became fun. And it
(22:07):
was a mental battle too of like, okay, I'm writing
a book, do I have to change.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
My whole voice?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
What is my book voice, you know, like, what is
is it the same writing as I would do for
an Instagram caption for like, I felt like I needed
to change something, but no, I had to keep the same.
I went back and read a lot of things that
I've written before, just to like remind myself of how
I sound and some of my favorite work.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
And then once I started doing that, I just hit
the ground running.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, it's it's funny. Like at the beginning, I too
loved the procrastination part. I loved that I had a
lot of research to do because that felt much more
like something I could wrap my arms around. But then
after the ninetieth person I asked for advice said sit
your ass in the chair and start writing. I was like, okay,
I guess I thought writing about it's the writing of it.
I was honored to get to write a blurb for y'all.
(23:00):
So I got a first look at this fantastic book.
And I love the photographs. Like you mentioned, the shots
of the pioneers of the game playing in like floor
length skirts were wild. But so much nostalgia too, and
nostalgia for stuff that I never even knew existed. But
it hit me in a way that I was like,
oh my god, I wish I had been there live
to see Cheryl Miller dunk on stage during a Donna
(23:21):
Summer nineteen to eighty four Grammy performance. If she works
hard for the money? Like that sounds like a mad
lib and that is real. It is a clip that
I immediately googled after I read that in your book,
and I watched it and it was amazing. Yes. Also
the fact that there was a nineteen ninety nine WNBA
soundtrack called Divas of the Court Songs from the WNBA
Volume One. I mean, y'all, mind for some real gold
(23:44):
in this book, And I'm wondering if either of you
looked up that soundtrack and can name any of the
songs from that CD, which is available for purchase on
Amazon for seven ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Sarah, I bought it on eBay, Yes, and then I
was so excite. And then it came and I was like,
wait a second, I don't have a CD player. I
have nothing that can play a CD. So now I
have it like propped up on my desk as like
a cute little background thing, but I have not actually
listened to the CD.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Okay, I'm not getting paid by them, but I should.
One of my nieces is Taylor Swift obsessed, but she
likes to buy the CDs, and so she had this
old school CD player that her family found on eBay
and Crosley the record player, you know, the company that
sells like amazing records players has a CD player that
looks like a cool record player, like it looks vintage,
(24:35):
but it plays CDs instead of records. So you can
get yourself a cute little lavender colored Crosley for WNBA
Divas of the Court. Songs from the WNBA Volume one,
if you are inspired to listen to, for instance, don't
take it personal, just one of them Days by Monica,
which is a straight up banger, jump and jump in
by Destiny's Child. We got the beat from the Go
(24:57):
Gos Ladies, first from Queen Lativa, and of course the
song we all think about when we want to get
pumped up for basketball, Galileo by the Indigo Girls, which
is actually one of my favorite songs of all time,
clearly a throw in for the lesbians, but also like,
what that's not a basketball Songs of the WNBA Divas
of the Court.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
I love that there, it says, Volume one we don't
know if there was a volume two. I don't think
there was another one, so it was it was just
one of one. But we pretended that it was going
to be more of these sound I think they.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Believed it would be. And then someone was like, I
don't know if I need Sean Colvin and Queen Latifah
on the same CD. I think I'm good.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
I wish we could have recorded the day that we
stumbled across that.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Let me just say that eBay was a gold mine.
Emma bought a CD. Did you buy the Barbie too?
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Like?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I did not buy the Barbie, but I thought about it.
We looked at it. Yeah, when they made Wnba Barbie,
would it be cheaper for us to physically buy the
barbie and photograph it ourselves than he for the photo
rights of those pictures?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I mean, I love That's one of the reasons that
sometimes like I have stuff in my house and I'm like,
I don't really want to give this away or throw
it out. I feel like even twenty years from now,
it'll be like, whoa, this was what the first season
of Love Pro Volleyball look like, or this is you know,
year two of the PWHL, like we are in the
midst of being able to archive the beginnings of so
many things in women's sports that it's hard not to
(26:26):
feel attached, but also like, I don't want to be
a hoarder, so I got to find a good spot
to start, just keep some of the stuff that I
think will will last. Jordan, what's one of your favorite
like sections or topics in the book?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Oh, goodness, so many. I think one that always sticks
out to me is the WBL section. So the first
professional women's basketball league. Getting to talk to those players
they are a part of Legends of the Ball, which
is what they call themselves now, and Molly Bolin and
(26:59):
Liz Galoway and them just really putting me in that
time and describing what it was like to be accidental trailblazers,
Like they didn't set out to be these pioneers of
the game. They were just like, Hey, you know college
is inding, do you want to play pro in America?
And they're like, yeah, Like that sounds great.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
That sounds like the dream.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Even though it was so short lived, it really set
the precedent for what we have now and the WNBA
and Unrivaled and all these things started as ideas of
women's pro basketball leagues, so to not only be able
to talk to them about their experiences, the rivals them
brag about how good they were. That was probably one
(27:42):
of my favorite parts. They were hoopers and they say it,
and they tell you rats man crazy before the three
point line too.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Most of them like she was a hooper.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
So I love that they got a chance to brag
on themselves and share the stories and also the stories
of their teammates who made such a lasting impression on
the league and women's basketball altogether. So that was definitely
one of my favorites. And the team names, the jerseys,
the flyers that we have in here of like, I mean,
(28:18):
there was a team called the Minks and they were
sponsored by Mink Coats and like that was their roster.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
But tech are you kidding?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
The Dallas Diamonds were sponsored by a jewelry company like Maze.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yes, I love all of it. So that was really fun.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Deserved luxury.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
What about you, Emma, I'm about the same era for mine.
I loved talking to the women of Immaculada College, which
was the early nineteen seventies and kind of the first
college dynasty of organized women's college basketball, and just the
stories they had of what it took to play it
all to literally get to the NCAA tournament where this
(28:56):
was before you had big athletics departments that were seriously
sponsoring women's sports. And so they did like a bake
sale at school to try to raise some money, and
they got enough to fly stand by to the tournament,
and so the coach had like a list of like, Okay,
you know, we need a big we need some guards.
This is the order for which you can take tickets.
Oh yeah, that maybe not everyone gets to fly stand by,
(29:19):
So let's let's just see what happens and literally who
can get on this plane? Just crazy stuff like that.
Then in contrast with what they were doing on the
court and how good they were that you know, this
college in Pennsylvania, that so many of these girls had
come through the Philadelphia Catholic League, which had really great,
really competitive girls basketball in high school, and so they
(29:42):
were really great players. A lot of them went on
to do some pretty cool things afterward. But just the
contrast between what they were doing on the court in
the seventies and really like the legacy they left of
having that kind of first true college dynasty and the
conditions they were playing in and what they had to do
to literally show up. It was just really cool.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I think about and this never happened to me, but
you hear about people who were like I was last
picked for a team, and it's like a lifelong memory
that haunts me. Again, never happened to me, but I
feel like last picked and I didn't get on the plane.
I just was would be even worse than last picked
in class, but like, oh, I am absolutely last on
(30:24):
my team. I did not make the plane. It also
reminds me of Pat Summit, like washing all the uniforms
and basically having to do every job while being this
incredible exis and O's mind. And it also reminds me like,
you know, we talk about folks that are early at
least from my generation, you know, like the Dina Trossian
super that we're still playing until very recently, but they
(30:44):
can still look and say, like, man if I was
starting right now with nil with the WNBA, where it
is with unrivaled with Project Be with all these things.
And so you go back dozens and dozens of years
and you really think about how many great players nobody
ever really knew and ever will remember how great they were.
There's not video, there's not stats the same way, and
(31:05):
that's hard, but you're telling their stories, which is really cool.
Any big picture takeaways or kind of themes that you
were left with after telling over one hundred years of history, Jordan.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
I think the biggest takeaway is, you know, what we
hope the readers are taking away from it is that
women's basketball didn't start two years ago, like it didn't
start yesterday.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Kaylen Clark invented it, guys, you know, you know, actually
she did not.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
And that is my biggest takeaway that this game that
we love so much, that you know, I came in
you know, in the early two thousands loving it. It
was happening, and women were laying that foundation for years
and decades before. So that was my biggest takeaway that
the game that I love was loved by so many
(31:58):
women before, and it was such a joy and a
treat to be able to spotlight their stories. We wish
we could tell every single player's story like that was
another hard part about this. As we were writing it,
as we were going through edits history was continuing to happen,
like That's how much women's.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Basketball history there is.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
We had to finally hear from our editor like, okay,
we can't add anything after this day, because yeah, Asian
Wilson was gonna get another MVP and another championship, and
we would have had to keep updating it because that's
how great women's basketball is now, but also from decades before.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
So well, unlike the Divas soundtrack, we'll just have to
have a Court Queen's Volume two. So yeah, you've set
yourself up for a sequel. Congrats on the book. So
excited for everyone to get the chance to read it
and look at the pictures and then go out and
buy that CD and a CD player to play it.
Only thanks to both of you. Thank you, thank you,
(32:59):
Thanks again to Jordan and for taking the time. We
have to take another break when we return a bar
in Boston where everyone actually does know your name. Welcome back, Slices.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too. So here's our
(33:19):
good game play of the day. Pick up a copy
of Jordan and Emma's book Court Queen's we'll link to
it in the show notes. Also, remember to keep an
eye on how your brackets are doing in our March
Sliceness Bracket competition and also in the Welcome to the
March Madness Party bracket that's run by the Welcome to
the Party folks, Abby Wombach, Julia Faudi and Billy Jean King, which,
(33:40):
by the way, as of midday on Sunday, we were
tied for the lead with Coach Jackie, so we'll be
keeping an eye out for our bracket in that one
and talking so much shit at least while we're still
in the lead. You know, we always love to hear
from you, so hit us up on email good game
at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail at
eight seven two two four, and don't forget to subscribe,
(34:02):
rate and review just like producer Bianca. Take it away, Bianca.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
Everyone watches women's sports in Boston, rating one hundred percent
of TVs at the bar playing women's hoops review. The
Sports Bra, the world's first sports bar dedicated to exclusively
showing women's sports, is coming to Boston, and while the
brick and mortar bar isn't up and running just yet,
the folks in charge have been taking over other bars
(34:28):
for pop up sports bra events, and I went to
one this weekend to watch the Yukon game and it
was so fun. There were a bunch of dvs playing
different March Madness games, and during game breaks there was
women's sports trivia. Not to brag, but I won a
shirt for knowing the first woman to run the Boston
Marathon as an officially registered competitor.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
That's Catherine Switzer. And there were also folks there.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
From Simmons University because later this year the school is
launching the first women's focused sports man management graduate program
in the country, plus an undergraduate minor. So cool, you
might recall we mentioned that super Slice Aaron raw just
got accepted into that program. And speaking of Slices, I
met another Slice at the bar. Slice Jen let me
(35:16):
and my friends join her table, and she overheard us
talking about some of our recent episodes here a good
game with college basketball players, so she chimed into the conversation.
As an avid fan, she said she listens every day
and she loved the Olympic coverage and she loves a
good game, good game, few moment at the end. So
nice to meet you, Jen, if you're listening, and so
(35:37):
fun to meet the Sports Bra Boston team highly recommend
checking out their pop ups if you're in the area,
and hopefully we hear some news soon about a permanent space.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Oh my god, so fun. I'm so jealous. I was
hanging out with children trying to watch as many games
as possible while pretending to be paying attention to them.
Now it's your turn, y'all, rate and review. Thanks for listening,
see them. Good game, Jordan and Emma. Good game, Wisconsin Hockey, You,
Chicago Weather, get it together. As of Friday, it's spring Spring.
(36:14):
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzi and Bianca Hillier. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Lucy Jones, Britney Martinez, and
(36:36):
Gianna Palmer. Production assistants from Avery Loftus and I'm Your
Host Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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