March 27, 2026 • 48 mins
Vice President of Sporting for the NWSL and former New Zealand national team player Sarah Gregorius joins Sarah to talk about the “natural tension” between sport and business, the role the U.S. is playing in global soccer, how she’s working to fix the narrative that the league doesn’t center the sport of soccer enough, and how her lifelong tendency to be a troublemaker and agitator serves her on the job. Plus, the Olympics are doing a dangerous backstroke, a record climb to the Summit, and put on your party dress because you’re all invited to a Super Sweet 16.
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Check out the women's college basketball schedule here
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The NWSL schedule can be found here
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Watch Jess Carter’s interview about racism in soccer with The Line here
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Listen to the podcast "Tested" to learn about the history of SRY gene testing and other so-called "gender tests" here
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome the Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we followed
Azy Fud's lead and cut our fingernails.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm about to play the best part of my life, y'all.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
It's Friday, March twenty seventh, and on today's show will
be speaking with vice President of Sporting for the NWSL
and former New Zealand national team player, Sarah Gregorius. We
talk about the natural tension between sport and business, the
role the US is playing in global women soccer, how
she's working to fix the narrative that the league doesn't
center the sport of soccer enough, and how her lifelong
(00:28):
tendency to be a troublemaker and agitator serves her on
the job. Plus, the Olympics are doing a dangerous backstroke
a record climbed to the summit and put on your
party dresses. You're all invited to my super Sweet sixteen.
It's all coming up right after this. Welcome Backslaicays, Happy Friday.
(00:53):
Here's what you need to know today, starting with college hoops.
It's sweet sixteen time and today my schedule is practically
begging you to duck out of work a little early,
kicking things.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Off at two thirty pm Eastern.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
It's Hannah Hidalgo and number six Notre Dame versus MICHAELA.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Blake's and number two Vanderbilt. What a matchup.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Friend of the Show, Blake says, already set a Vanderbilt
single scoring record in the first round game. She surpassed
Wendy Schulten's eight hundred and fifty five points. Schulten's record
had stood since the nineteen eighty nine to ninety season.
At five pm Eastern today, number four UNC takes on
number one Yukon, who are coming off in absolute beatdown
of Syracuse in the second round. Ezy Fudd had thirty
(01:35):
four points and eight threes, both matched career highs in
her final game at Gamble Pavilion, and the Huskies literally
made Syracuse cry, holding the Orange to twelve points at
the half.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Tough.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
This will mark Yukon's thirty second straight Sweet sixteen appearance,
the longest in Division one history. At seven thirty Eastern tonight,
it's number four Minnesota versus number one UCLA Bruin Senior
Laura Betts also capped off her home career in style,
putting up a career high thirty five points in her
last game. At Polly Pavilion. The night cap tonight, we'll
see number three Duke take on number two LSU. That's
(02:10):
a ten pm Eastern tip off. Second half of the
Sweet sixteen matchups go down tomorrow. We'll link to that
schedule in the show notes. Be sure you don't miss
the seven thirty pm Eastern matchup between this year Cinderella,
Number ten Virginia and number three TCU. Virginia is the
first ever team to play in the First four and
make it to the Sweet sixteen. The first pair of
(02:30):
Elite Eight games will be Sunday afternoon, and if you
still haven't gotten your fill of women's hoops after that,
tune into the Celebrating Pat Summit Live Reunion Special seven
pm Eastern Sunday on ESPN two to see Friend of
the Show Holly rochat with former Lady Vols stars Kandice Parker,
Nikki Fargas, and Andrea Carter, as well as South Carolina
head coach John Staley as they share memories of Summit's
(02:52):
career even more college hoops. On Wednesday, the finalists for
the Naysmith Women's Player of the Year were announced. UCLA
senior Lauren Betts Vanderbilt sophomore michaeleb Blake's, Yukon graduate guard
Asyfudd and Yukon sophomore center Sarah Strong. A lot of
friends of the show in the mix there. We're not
going to pick favorites to the NWSL. After an ugly
(03:12):
loss in Week two, the Seattle Rain enjoyed a bounce
back win Wednesday night, besting last year's NWSL Shield winners
the Kansas City Current three nil in Spokane. Meantime, expansion
side Denver Summit are in the first win in franchise
history Wednesday, defeating defending champions got the FC two nil
behind goals from Melissa Custler and Natasha Flint. Custler is
now the second ever NWSL player to score in each
(03:35):
of her club's first three regular season matches. The Summit
will play the first home game in franchise history tomorrow,
a two pm Eastern kickoff against the Washington Spirit. Over
fifty thousand tickets have been sold for the opener at
Mile High Stadium, home to the NFL's Denver Broncos, setting
the game up to break the NWSL's inaugural home game
attendance record and.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
The all time single match attendance record.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So, just like we did with the Austin Legacy, we
reached out to the Summit for a little hype minute
ahead of their big day.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Here's Jordan Angelie.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
What's up, good game. I am here to introduce you
to one of NWSL's new kids on the block, Denver
Summit FC. I'm Jordan Ageley, former WPS and NWSL midfielder,
current commentator in NWSL, and one of the founders of
the movement to bring NWSL to Denver. The past three
years for me, as a lake with Colorado native, have
(04:27):
been a whirlwind to see a dream become reality and
watch Denver Summit take the pitch in twenty twenty six.
On the field, the Summit have already proven in their
first three games that they are going to play an
exciting brand of soccer under Nick Kushing. They're led by
Colorado native Janine Sonis and have internationals like Tosh Plint, who,
(04:47):
with her English flair, has a little extra cheekiness under pressure,
and Melissa Cussler, a German international who has three goals
in three games and is putting the league on notice.
Denver Summit's colors are an homage to the landscape in
colorful Colorado, and I am keen on the green kit,
a little ode to the big, beautiful evergreens we have
(05:09):
all over the state. The home opener for the Summit
is March twenty eighth at empower Field at Mile High,
and it looks like Colorado is going to show up
in a big way, not just breaking a single game
NWSL attendance record, but smashing it. Denver Summit is the
first ever women's professional soccer team in Colorado, and Colorado
(05:31):
is showing up for it, and that alone is something
to get excited about.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
New kids on the block. That's Boston's account, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
But thank you Jordan, and thanks to Shelby with the
Summit for your help too. Also, Damn, the more I
hear about this first home game, the more I'm bummed
that I didn't book my flight. That is going to
be a scene more soccer. We'll link to the full
NWSL schedule in the show notes, but wanted to shout
out tomorrow's match between the Boston Legacy and Utah Royals
FC at twelve Eastern home game for Boston in which
(06:00):
you know doesn't mean it's in Boston because of all
those stadium problems, but I digress. The Legacy are hosting
a pregame celebration of women in Sports at Gillette Stadium,
and after the too Many Balls fiasco, we love to
see that the team is honoring some of Boston's female athletes.
The event includes a pregame panel with Olympic rower Christy Wagner,
soccer legend Christine Lilly, and Paralympic swimmer Anna Johannes, plus
(06:22):
autograph sessions with friend at the show, Lacks star Charlotte
North and her Boston Guard teammate Rachel Hall, and some
members of the Boston Banshees of the Women's Elite Rugby League.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
If you're in the ariat, the event starts at ten am.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Also at halftime, the team is celebrating Irish Heritage Day
with quote unquote viral bagpiping sensation Ali the Piper, so
BYOCB bring your own corned beef.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
More soccer news.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
A British Man who admitted to writing racially abusive messages
on social media about England and Gotham FC defender Jess
Carter was given a suspended jail sentence, assigned ten days
community work, banned from football map for four years, given
a three month curfew and find about.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Three hundred and twenty dollars.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
The man made the comments under an anonymous account during
the Women's Euros last year.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Carter, who has over fifty caps.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
For England, has previously said the online abuse cost her
to step away from social media, and she since started
using her platform to speak out against racism in soccer.
We'll link to an interview in the Show Notes that
Carter did with the Line Show talking about how her
team empowered her to speak out to the Olympics. On Thursday,
the International Olympic Committee announced a new policy banning trans
women from the Games, writing in part quote eligibility for
(07:33):
any female category event at the Olympic Games or any
other IOC event, including individual and team sports, is now
limited to biological females determined on the basis of a
one time srwide gene screening end quote.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
More on that sroy Thing in a.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Sec The policy also restricts female athletes with medical conditions
known as differences in sex development or DSD, and that
includes two time Olympic champion on the track castor semena.
While forcing athletes to endure genetic tests is a massive
step backwards. Frankly, it's not all that surprising. IOC President
Kirsty Coventry made it clear early in her tenure that
(08:07):
quote unquote, protecting the female category was a priority for her,
and she quickly created a working group to tackle the
supposed problem after taking the helm of the organization.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
The IOC set on Thursday.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It was the working group that decided on this new
policy based on quote unquote scientific evidence, which they did
not cite.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Or detail in any way.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
The policy also aligns with President Trump's Executive Order on
Women's Sports ahead of the twenty twenty eight Los Angeles
Games and at Mirrors World Athletics Sry gene testing policy
put in place last year. Now, what is the sroy gene?
While we're going to get into it in more detail
in an upcoming episode, but the IOC argues that the
presence or absence of the Sroy gene is a reliable
(08:47):
proxy for determining biological sex aka, if an athlete has
the gene, they should be banned from competing with women.
Medical experts and geneticists have long argued, though, that that's
a far too simplistic take with seriously damaging consequences for
athletes mentally, physically, and financially. This is also not the
first time the IOC IS implemented s RY testing at
(09:09):
the Games. It was used throughout the nineties before medical
experts persuaded the IOC to drop it for the two
thousand Sydney Olympics. Now it's back rearing its ugly head again.
We're going to talk a lot more about this in
an upcoming episode, but in the meantime, we'll remind you
of that fantastic pod Tested, which covers the history of
these kinds of policies. You remember we discussed it in
(09:30):
detail with producer Rio Evelyth back in twenty twenty four.
Worth going back now to listen to understand why these
quote unquote gender tests are so problematic to the WNBA.
The league announced Wednesday they'll hold the expansion Draft for
new franchises, the Portland Fire and Toronto Tempo on April third,
just one week from today. The process starts tomorrow, though
(09:50):
the expansion side that wins a coin toss will choose
either the first pick in the expansion Draft or the
number six pick in the college Draft. Existing teams have
until Sunday to submit a list of five protected players
that won't be eligible for selection players they had the
rights to on the final day of the twenty twenty
five regular season. Any player who has five or more
years of service after the twenty twenty five season must
(10:12):
be listed as an unrestricted free agent or left unprotected.
The new teams will pick from the unprotected players, with
no more than one player per existing team getting chosen.
Each new team may also select one player who's a
potential unrestricted free agent, and would then be allowed to
negotiate a supermax contract with those players. Now, obviously it's
a different sport, but even just saying the word protected
(10:34):
player still gives me PTSD from the Hillary Knight Boston
Fleet debacle. Speaking of the PWHL, let's go back to
Wednesday night, when I took a pack of twenty to
the Takeover Tour game just outside Chicago. It was a
big night for the struggling Seattle Torrent as the league's
worst team bested the New York Sirens four to one.
Teresa Schoffsaal scored her first goal since being traded to
(10:54):
the Torrent and added two assists for a three point night.
Though it wasn't a sell out. The crowd was big
and louder than the December Chicago stop, which is good news,
as rumor has it the PWHL's looking at adding an
expansion team here in Chicago. Fingers crossed signs and chants
of we want a team were met with roars from
the crowd all night, a crowd that officially got the
(11:16):
PWHL passed the two million fans all time mark. The
next Takeover Tour stop in Detroit on Saturday, marks another
milestone for the PWHL. Ally Financial and Script Sports partnered
with the league to broadcast its first ever game on
national linear television in the US. The one pm Eastern
game between the New York Sirens and the Montreal Victoire
at Little Caesar's.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Arena will air on Ion.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Now you remember, Friend of the Show Andrea Brimmer, who's
the CMO of Ally, told us about using the brand's
power and purse to move the NWSL Championship game to
prime time for the first time in.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
While she's added again, this time helping take the PWHL
to TVs across America to tennis, where the competition is
heating up at the Miami Open. Tuesday and Wednesday's quarter
finals had a strong US showing, with three of the
four matches featuring an American player, Coco Golf, Hailey Baptiste
and Jessica Pagoula. After all was said and done, though
just one of those players made it to Thursday's SEMIS,
(12:11):
reigning French Open champ Golf. We're recording this before Thursday Semis,
where Golf will play Carolina Muhova. The other semi and
Australian Open finals rematch between Arena Sebalnka and Elena Rebakina.
We'll link to the results in the show notes and
you can watch the finals Saturday at twelve thirty pm
Eastern on the Tennis Channel.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
All right, selice this, We're going to take a break
when we come back.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
A fascinating and super thoughtful convo with the NWSL.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Sarah Gregorius joining US now.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
She's the vice president of Sporting for the NWSL and
a former player for the New Zealand national team, earning
one hundred caps, playing in all of the Ferns matches
in the twenty eleven and twenty fifteen World Cups, and
playing in the twenty twelve and twenty sixteen Olympics in
twenty nineteen World Cup. She worked in global strategy and
policy leadership at fIF Pro before joining the NWSL in
twenty twenty four. She loves a cheesy Christmas sweater and
(13:06):
our names are spelled the same. But I'm Sarah and
she's Siah. It's Sarah Gregorious. How is my Kiwi accent?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
You know what?
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Pretty good? I've definitely heard worse.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Well, I mean, New Zealand is my opt out plan
if America continues on the path that's on.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So I need to ingratiate myself to the Kiwis. I
love it. There's so much.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I'm a little bit biased, b because it's definitely the
best place in the world.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
In the whole world. It's so beautiful.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
I love it so much.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And yet you're here in the US to help make
our league the best in the world. So thanks for
joining us. Congrats on your promotion named VP of Sporting
just a few weeks ago, and you, just as we
were getting ready for the show, told us how you
were welcomed into your new position by your staff.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Can you share that story?
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Yeah, of course they'll be thrilled that they've made the podcast. No,
I took right before the start of the NWSL season.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
It took a couple of weeks to go to New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Hadn't been home in a couple of years and wanted
to take the opportunity to do that. And while I
was away, my team got one hundred and forty tiny
little ducks and they decorated my new office, put them everywhere,
and i'm mean everywhere, like they were on my desk
of course, but there's also some on the ceiling, in
drawers everywhere. And I had a little sticky note on
(14:21):
my desk when I got back and I said, welcome back, Buffs.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
While you're away, we got all of your ducks.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
In a row, which I think was not only creative
but also a little bit endearing.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
I'm glad that they felt that they could do that.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, it seems like you must have a great relationship.
Hard to say whether they were decorating or pranking you,
but I appreciate the thought.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Nonetheless, what part of New Zealand did you get back?
Speaker 5 (14:45):
To Wellington?
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I grew up in Wellington and my parents are still
there with still quite a few of my friends, so
that's home for me.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Cool I got to go to Wellington for some of
the World Cup matches when I was out there, so
I got to see your home.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
It's very cute.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Were there for the Pan Spain game that was in Wellington?
Remember that one in the group stage?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
No, I think I can't remember who I was watching.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Can I tell you that I made the mistake of
leaving my sunglasses at home and that stadium I literally
was basically getting like a reflection from the surface of
the sun directly into my eyes. So I think I've
blacked out most of what I was watching. Yeah, what
were you going to point out about that one?
Speaker 5 (15:21):
No?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I just said it was a brilliant game. It was
one of the games of the group stage. Yeah, and
it was in Wellington. I was there as well.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I think i'd remember if I saw my Spain team
that I claimed just due to my last name and
no other connection whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So I don't think I've had that one.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
But what a cool stadium, what a cool place. So
let's talk about this new VP of Sporting role. What
excites you most about the job?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Well, it is a very interesting job because the remit
is basically to be the caretaker and the person who
was tasked with managing the sporting health of the league,
which is really the on field product. So for someone
like myself, you're mentioned it with my background and my
experience as a player, to be in a position to
really affect and impact that is huge. I take that
(16:08):
responsibility very seriously, and I also really enjoy it.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
It's been a ton of fun so far.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
It means that I can work with all of the
clubs across the NWSL, all of our partners stakeholders, work
with the team internally to make sure that we're looking
at the right things, coming up with the right initiatives,
the right programming.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
To support like the on field health of the league.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
And it is really just a great opportunity to enhance
the role that this league plays, not only within the
US sports ecosystem, but also the global women's football ecosystem,
which you know, the US, whether it's the national team
or the NWSL or the leagues that have been here
in the past, has always played such a leadership role
(16:50):
in the game. So to be in this position, to
be in this seat, is this brilliant. I'm really enjoying it.
There's so many things about it that excite me.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I think a lot of folks might not even be
entirely clear on what a sporting role is at a team,
but certainly not what it really entails at the league level.
So can you tell us a little bit more about
the specific responsibilities.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Sure, within our group, we look after everything from medical
and high performance all the way through to officiating. We
play a role in helping manage the talent pipeline, so
player development, sporting staff support so head coaches, the sporting
executives all the way through to the data analysts and
the performance staff at the clubs. We play a governance
(17:34):
role in and across all of that. So it's a
really broad space. There's so many different ways that you
can impact and affect that. And one of the other
things that I do which is very interesting is you
know that what is unique perhaps about women's soccer and
women's football is it's a global game. Some of the
other American sports don't have that particular context. So a
(17:54):
lot of my work is also around like how we
interact with global football, the global football governance frame work,
and making sure that our interests and our needs are
represented on that stage as well, and that we're advocating
for the things that makes sense for our players and
our clubs to really thrive. So it's a I mean,
we can go into a whole bunch of different areas,
but I think what's really important to remember is, you know,
(18:16):
the NWSL is a sports league, so it is really
at the center of everything that we're doing, and trying
to progress and promote and protect the game is really
what it's about. But it does it touches really like
a number of different areas.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
You got a big job, and more so than ever
of late in the last couple of years, the relationship
between the NWSL and Global women's Soccer has changed, just
with the amount of players going back and forth coming
to the league and going to other leagues. The questions
about the footprint and the schedule and how it interacts
with the rest of the world of sport is much
(18:49):
more complicated than in other sports, where the US declares
itself champions of the world when we win, even if
we're not playing the world. The soccer world is very
different and there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Of that communication that needs to go on. You know,
you just mentioned it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Sport is at the center of everything you do, and
you know, one criticism of the NWSL's front office in
the past has been what sometimes can feel like a
disconnect between the league and the actual product of soccer.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It feels like you can play a really big.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Role in making sure that the front office feels informed
and educated and passionate about the sport itself.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Is that a priority for you in this job?
Speaker 5 (19:21):
Totally? It really is.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
And we're sort of operating now with this virtuous cycle,
in this flywheel where you have a great sporting product,
which means bigger audiences, which means greater revenue, which circles
back around to you know, a better sporting product because
it can all be reinvested into the game. So that
is hugely critically important that we keep that focus.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
And of course there's.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
An element of you know, mainstreaming sporting insights and sporting
conversations into the broader business because there is and I
actually think this is really healthy, a natural tension between
sporting and business, right like you even for the sake
of and we know this occurs in other sports as well,
Like how do you build the game in a way
(20:08):
that makes sense for not only the in Stadia experience
but also the TV experience. How do you make sure
that the players can still thrive in that environment and
perform at their peak.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
So those conversations are really ongoing.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
But I actually really enjoy that part of it as well,
and I do think that that past criticism has probably
been very fair. The NWSLF had its first chief Sporting
director only begin in January of twenty and twenty three,
for example, in the league has existed for a lot
longer than that, so I never want to shy away
(20:40):
from the history in the past. I think there's huge
learnings to be taken, and the league is actively decided
to not have that repeat itself by having people sitting
in the type of position that I have now that
really managed that not only from like an internal mainstreaming
of the right topics across the board, but also to
make sure that we are proactively planning on how we
(21:00):
build on the product that we have and future proof
against what's to come in the industry, but also in
a really exciting and innovative way as well.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah so smart, And yeah, I mean centering the soccer
being played in the marketing and promotion and selling of
the league is a huge part of it too, and
that'll only be easier for the NWSL to do when
it's supported by all the work that you're doing. The
insights that you're coming up with American fans are interesting.
There are a lot of less informed American fans when
it comes to the game of footy because it hasn't
(21:30):
always been traditionally our go to and yet the ones
that are informed are so passionate and outspoken that they're
demand for the league to share the insights and to
reveal what it's working on. When it comes to centering,
the sport can seem outsized and louder than maybe even
the number of people calling for it. But when you
can answer that and say here's all the things we're
(21:51):
doing and here's the job that I have, it's great.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
It's really fantastic.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
And you haven't been with the league long, just since
twenty twenty four, but there's been a lot of growth
and change even in that short What are some of
the areas where you've really noticed it most that the
league is changing.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
Well, great question.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I think there's been a really interesting pervot towards wanting
to focus more on play health and innovation around that
and looking I obviously acknowledge like, particularly given what my
role was prior to coming too. The NWSL obviously acknowledged
that player care was near the front and center for
the NWSL for a long time, and I think going
(22:30):
through what the league and what the players and the
clubs went through, and then arriving now at a point
where the conversation, parts of the conversation is certainly now
about like how can we do more? How can we
do more for the players? How can we invest in
their health? How can we invest in And the term
that I like to use, rather than injury prevention or
anything like that, is how do we increase player availability?
(22:52):
And that obviously goes into wanting to mitigate and prevent injury,
but it also goes into career longevity. How can we
have great players playing brilliant football over a longer period
of time. And I think there's been a really exciting
and interesting pivot in Narrogard and I'm hugely passionate personally
about that particular area, and I'm really proud that the
(23:13):
league is taking steps to invest in it. I also
think the league is working really hard and we're obviously
at the forefront of this, and it's critically important if
you're evaluating sporting performance, is better understanding data and having
an infrastructure that can support the ingestion of data from
multiple sources, and then being in a position to really
(23:33):
churn out meaningful individualized insights. And I don't mean individualized
insights from like an individual player perspective, but individual to
the sport.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Of women's football.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
And we know that there just is not enough research
and not enough understanding about that particular, particularly from the
lens of the athlete. So I'm really looking forward to
continuing network and We've done some great foundational movements over
the past, like at months, I think in particular, and
I'm excited for that to grow further and for us
(24:04):
to then pivot into really driving some innovations in that
space and not just you know, like I've said before,
individualized towards individual players, but you know, we have to
wrap our arms around the people that take care of
the players, the support staff that are working in the clubs.
I think we're also taking like a number of really
positive steps to better support the technical and sporting staffs
(24:27):
that the league's knowing how much influence they have on
the players and therefore on the sporting product. So those
are areas that I'm really excited about. But I mean,
I could just talk about so many other things. I mean,
you talked about you talked about the American fan, and
I think the attitude towards women's soccer here is actually
in general, whether it's from fans to the boardroom, is
(24:48):
actually so interesting and so exciting. There's passion and ambition
that I haven't seen replicated really in other parts of
the world. And I don't care what people's entry point
is into the game.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
I think here people really fall in love with it.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
They fall in love with the success, they fall in
love with the players, they fall in love with the atmosphere,
the inclusion, the.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Vibes that it creates.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
And it's the same with then turning that into you know,
meaningful and impactful investment as well, whether that's as a
fan or as an owner or investor. So I just
wanted to acknowledge that because I think it's it's kind
of the other side of the coin to that whole
fan conversation, as I've never seen passion like it, and
it's so so interesting but so exciting and fun to
(25:33):
be part of.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah, we get spoiled over here, and then athletes from
other countries come over and talk about the different level
of investment and care and training facility and everything else,
and it's really something to be proud of.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
And you know, I will say.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
The greater the investment into this league and the teams,
the more it allows the league to focus on and
have the bandwidth to care about players in ways that
I think. You have to understand it's your product. And
also folks have to understand that when you have a
league that is just starting out, you are pulled in
eight million directions at once, and so trying to figure
(26:08):
out how to stay afloat market pay people do the
things like you wouldn't think that the player would fall
through the cracks, But sometimes the simplest thing, which is
the product on the field, feels like the thing you
don't have to pay as much attention to as everything
behind the scenes that's falling apart. And now I think
with all the research being done into women's sports and
women athletes in particular, you can marry that with the
investment into these teams and really start to create these
(26:30):
incredibly stellar environments for people to thrive and to be
their best players, which is so exciting.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
You know, you said you.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Care particularly about advocating for athletes, and in your previous
job at fIF Pro that was a big part of it.
And I think that that goes way way back because
I've heard you say in interviews that you grew up
as like a bit of a troublemaker and always willing
to push back a little bit. So before we even
get to how that manifest in your career, I wonder
if you have a good example, you know, maybe one
of those stories that the family likes to retell over
(26:58):
and over about naughty young Sarah.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Yeah, I have few, to be honest, I am a
metal child and I grew up between two brothers, an
older brother and a younger brother. And you can't really
see it on this interview, but I'm not very big.
I'm about five foot nothing. You know, I don't have
a lot of a lot of size, and it became
very apparent when I was growing up that I couldn't
(27:22):
compete with my brothers physically, so I had to outsmart
them and out with them. The story that my mum
likes to tell us there was there was a bike
in the backyard and the three of us wanted to
ride it, and my older brothers were really fighting about
it and rather than engaging in the fight. While they
were preoccupied like sort of attempting to throw punches and
(27:46):
really have it out. I just snuck around the side,
picked up the bike and went off and I found
a way to.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
Like have my little play on it return it.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
They hadn't even noticed, and they continued to fight about it.
And the reason why I think that translates a little
bit into my what's ended up becoming my career is
there's always a way forwards, and there's always a way
to get positive outcomes and to get positive momentum. Sometimes
it just doesn't look like the most obvious way forwards,
(28:17):
but it is. I think growing up in that environment
taught me how to think a little bit laterally and
to rather than spend all of my time raging against
the system, it's actually working really hard to understand it
and find ways to maneuver within it, because otherwise I
could have spent a lot of energy trying to fight
my two brothers, who are much bigger than me. My
younger brother was a professional rugby player, which gives you
(28:39):
an understanding of how big he was. But you know,
it's about taking a moment and taking the opportunity to
get something that you desire.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Well, what that anecdote also made me think of is
not always but stereotypical male versus female leadership, right, and
you went, you went and fixed the problem instead of
over the problem. This coming from a country of New
Zealand that has multiple female prime ministers that have been
at the head of the country, while we hear toil
away without ever having handed over the reins to a
(29:11):
woman to see how that might go. But I digress
back to you being a troublemaker with an intentional nature
to you. Your teammates kind of figured out pretty early
that you were willing to speak up for players and
fight for resources and respect and stuff. When did you
first realize that advocacy was something that came sort of
naturally for you.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Probably when I was already doing it.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Was not really something that I ever sought out.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
I think, you know, when you're in a team environment,
you play the role that not so much is handed
to you, but the one that is going to be
most effective, whether it's on the field or off the field.
As a teammate and as a person who was also
interested and I think, at times to be honest, somewhat
confused by our treatment.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
I wanted to solve it.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
And I was always part of those discussions that we
would have as like a team or a leadership group
on how to address certain things, you know, to better
support us and to better support our performance.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
And probably in those conversations they.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Just decided that, you know what, you're talking a lot,
and here, why don't you talk a lot out there?
And ten take this conversation forwards for us. And actually,
as I sort of said earlier, I didn't mind doing it.
I wanted to follow the breadcrumbs and figure out actually
like what was really going on and if we could
find like workable solutions to improve things. Most of the
(30:34):
time people don't have bad and tin they just have
a lack of understanding as well. So I don't want
to give the impression that I was like kicking down
doors or like, you know, putting my foot on anybody's
throat in order to get things done. It was it
was actually really about like that advocacy, but also trying
to sit down and figure out solutions.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
And you know, I got a lot of.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Experience as I was playing, particularly for my national team,
about like collective baggaining and negotiations and labor relations and
the role that employers and employees can play in improving
that by those stretches in and around the game and
in and around.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
A football team.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
So it was hugely interesting, and I think as I
went through my football career and then retired and ended
up working at fief Pro, it also gave me a
great insight into the world of governance, the world of
football governance, which is actually like a really complex I
find it interesting other people may not really interesting part
of football and a unique part of football, as you
(31:33):
already said earlier.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, I think there are people myself included, that have
a natural interest in understanding why things are the way
they are, especially if they're not equal or fair, and
being really driven by a desire to see justice across
either your own life or the lives of others, and
that takes you down a path of like better understanding
why things ended up the way they are and how you.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Can change them.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You know, you mentioned fIF Pro you were there kind
of while you were still playing and then right after
you were retired. I wonder what some of the big
things you learned from your time there was. Because you're
representing players across the globe sort of like the Worldwide
Union for Footballers, and you take a lot of that
role and dilute it down to just the NWSL in
the role that you have now trying to figure out
how to serve the players that make up the sport.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Working at Thief Pro, it's a global international organization, So
that was already like really interesting, really fascinating, really challenging.
Was working cross culturally, but I also worked across the
whole spectrum of the football industry. So we still like
supported some of the leading countries and the leading federations,
(32:40):
leading leagues with their collective agreements, with their representation, but
you also had some really difficult positions and some really
difficult situations that we also dealt with the players at
the total other end of the spectrum. So day to day,
week to week, it was fascinating, it always looked different.
Speaker 5 (32:59):
It was also very.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Hard emotionally at times to be faced with some of
those challenges. I mean, some things made it into the
public domain and others didn't. And then the other piece
of it, which is what I'm bringing to the NWSL
as well as just understanding the International Football Governance Framework,
what it means to work with the confederations and with
FIFA and with the other representative collective bodies, whether that's
(33:24):
what used to be the European Club Association and all
of those organizations, to try and figure out, Okay, collectively, how.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
Do we progress this game, how do we move it forwards?
Speaker 4 (33:33):
How do I make sure that players are right at
the heart of those decisions?
Speaker 5 (33:38):
What are the positions, what's the research that we need
to do in order to underpin it. So it was
a little bit like this role.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
It was hugely diverse, working across the spectrum of people,
organizations and challenges, but it was a great introduction to
the world of football governance and I'm really proud of
the progress that we were able to make and the
impact that we had on half of the players. And
I think FIFA is such a brilliant organization and so
important for the game.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
You know, you mentioned your work at fIF Pro in
a previous interview sort of felt akin to social justice
work at times in the way that you were advocating
for athletes. Do you see that you're able to still
apply that filter to your work with the NWSL and
potentially even helping give the league itself a voice and
a perspective that isn't just soccer, but is about more
(34:25):
than just that, particularly in the way it represents women
at a time like this in our country.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Definitely, sometimes I don't I think it's maybe underestimated, and
I don't think it can be overstated how important America,
the United States of America, is to women's football, and
is to the ongoing progress and professionalization of the game,
whether that's the legacy that's been created by the US
(34:51):
Women's National Team and the equal pay agreement that they reached,
whether it's the NWSL and groundbreaking CBAS. But also you know,
a lot of records, whether it's attendance or sponsorship, revenue,
whatever media deals, whatever it may be. It pulls the
rest of the industry along. And I do think it's
(35:11):
really important to always remind ourselves of the role that
we play, rather than getting to insulate it and just
thinking about it in the context of our own backyard
here in the US.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
So and that actually, I know that the.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
NWSL provides inspiration to other players around the world, whether
that's to play here, whether that's to have the types
of rights afforded to players here. So it maybe it
doesn't feel like it's consistently social justice work. But I
think the impact in the example that the NWSL can
set should not be taken for granted and should be factored.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
In too, how we innovate and how we therefore lead
the game forwards.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I think women athletes and women's leagues, particularly right now
in our current state, have an incredible amount of power
in showing representation of women that are in opposition to
where some folks would like us to be forced back
into the lanes and the spaces that they believe in
which we belong.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
You know, when I.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Joined the ownership group for the Chicago Stars, which I
was part of for a couple of years, it occurred
to me that I.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Was suddenly quote unquote the man. And I spent so.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Much of my career pushing back on the man and
demanding better for athletes and asking for accountability from higher
ups when they failed or didn't do what I thought
was right. And I wonder how you consider your role
representing kind of the man now instead of fighting against
the you know, larger hymn with a capital.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
H I am.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
I had a few comments when I made the decision
to join the league, which is the employer side of
things that I'd gone to the dark side, and my
response to that was, like, I mean, how good create
chaos and create change from within?
Speaker 5 (36:50):
Right, It's essentially a very effective path.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Not that I'm here if my boss is listening, not
that I need to create chaos by any stretch. But again,
as I said earlier, if you have the attitude of
wanting to follow the bread crumbs and understand how decisions
are being made and therefore like where you can be
to be impactful, it does lead you to a league
governance role. And so it's not like I personally don't
(37:14):
think being on this side of things means that my
mission or my values has to change.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
It's just a different operating environment.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
And the perspective you might need to get it done better.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Exactly, or like, what's the language that makes sense to
people working in this space, because it's different to the
language that you might use with players or with player
associations or player representatives.
Speaker 5 (37:36):
So it's also like adapting and.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Changing, like how I approach things the narrative that I present,
but not not to fundamentally change who I am or
what the goals or what the needs of the industry are.
So it's it's at a very personal level. It's also
part of the extension of my growth and my development
as a person within my career as well. So it's
(38:01):
it doesn't feel like I'm working for the man. It
just feels like I'm in another environment where I'm learning
how to grow this game and how to progress it sustainably.
And I certainly feel with this role and being in
this position that I'm well suited to do so. But
I also, like, I really hope that others will continue
(38:25):
to challenge the league too. I think that's so critically important.
I think there always needs to be healthy tension if
you want to make progress well.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
And from what I've gathered from you here and what
I've heard about you from others and write about you, like,
I'm just extremely excited to see what you do in
this role and the ways that you can help make
this league, you know, the best in the world. The
last question I want to ask you is about competition,
because I know part of your role is improving competition
and player experience and performance.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
What do you make of the first couple weeks of
the season.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
What's really interesting is, like we've hired within the sporting
team just recently the very first scene manager of officiating,
and he's been busy so far, a.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Couple more than the half of last year's total in
the first two weeks.
Speaker 5 (39:09):
Yeah, which I think.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
I mean, this league talks off a lot about like
how competitive it all is, and I think you're.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Seeing players are certainly leaving it all out there.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
What I'm really interested in seeing the development across this
year in particular, is, you know, we've got so many
coaches from all over the world playing in the league now,
on top of some really exciting players, and I think
with a couple of teams in particularly, starting to see
more diversity in the style of play because these coaches
have come in and they've had time to work with
(39:42):
their players, And to me, that's really interesting and I
think it's great for the league as a global league
and as a destination league that there are different styles
of play emerging. There are clubs that are working really
hard on their identity and they're playing philosophy as well,
and that's coming through. Not to mention like there's there's
the maybe it seems obvious to me, but it's.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Probably worth saying.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
We're a year out from the women's World Cup all
of the players, and I've certainly seen this in the
individual performances of some players are trying to get you know,
their catch the eye. Yeah, Butt's on a seat to
go to Brazil next year and be part of that.
So I think as the season goes on, we're also
going to see some players working so hard to find form.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
And I think that's really exciting.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Yeah, if I was a national team coach, I would
be both excited and probably a little bit dismayed at
how difficult my decisions are going to have to be
like leading into that competition, because we know, we know
as qualification wraps up that you know, all eyes are
going to be on Brazil next year and this league's
role in developing players and being a place where players
(40:50):
are playing well, so not only pushed to get into
national teams, but then to perform on the world stage.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
That that's another thing that I'm really looking forward to.
And it's always unique the year before a Women's World Cup.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah, well, my eyes are also on Brazil, and I
would like about in the seat covering it. So sponsors,
I hope you've got your eye on the work we're
doing here and the ways we're really pushing our performance
to make sure we've got a spot. I've still never
been to South America, so which sponsor will be the
one that helps open my horizons and send me on
a plane. Sarah was so great to talk to you.
(41:21):
I'm genuinely so enthusiastic for what you're going to do
with the league and really appreciate you giving us some time.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
No, thank you for the conversation, great questions. I hope
you get a sponsor and we see you in Brazil
next year.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
It's going to be massive.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Thanks again to Sarah for chatting with us. We have
to take another break when we return. It's Slice madness,
y'all or is it March sliceness? Either way, stick around
Welcome back Slics. In honor of Women's History Month. Every
Friday this month, we're doing a special edition of Take
(41:59):
It Back that looks back at legendary games, athletes, or
origin stories. This week, in honor of the Denver Summits
record breaking home opener at Mile High, let's take it
back to two noteworthy moments in attendance at women's soccer games.
Let's begin in England in nineteen twenty, the popular women's
soccer team, the dick Kerr Ladies, were playing a Boxing
day match against rivals Saint Helen's at Goodison Park in Liverpool,
(42:22):
with money raised going to men wounded.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
In the war.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Fifty three thousand fans attended, with even more turned away.
With the stadium at capacity. It was one of many
women's soccer games drawing huge crowds around that time. Well
one year later, angry that the women's games made money
they couldn't control and alleging that not all funds from
charity games went appropriately to charities, the sports governing body,
(42:45):
the FA, voted to ban women's football, ruling that women's
games were barred from FA affiliated football grounds.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Their ruling stated in part.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Quote, complaints having been made as to football being played
by women, Council felt impelled to express the strong opinion
that the game of football is quite unsuitable for females
and should not be encouraged end quote. Women's teams were
forced to play in small venues and small fields, extinguishing
their crowds and delegitimizing their efforts. The ban lasted fifty
(43:13):
one years. Fast forward to nineteen seventy one and the
all but forgotten unofficial Women's World Cup held in Mexico
City and Guadalajara. Teams came from Argentina, Denmark, England, France,
Italy and Mexico and played in front of over one
hundred thousand fans in Azteca Stadium, Yes one hundred thousand,
(43:34):
and yet FIFA wouldn't officially recognize a Women's World Cup
until nineteen ninety one, a full twenty years later, because
it wasn't a true World Cup. That nineteen seventy one
tournament went all but forgotten until the folks behind the
incredible documentary COPA seventy one unearthed the footage and told
the story. Go watch that doc and prepare to be
enraged and inspired by the nearly lost history of that
(43:57):
incredible event. Now I bring these two up because it's
worth remembering as we celebrate massive moments like the Summits Opener,
that rejecting and stunting the growth of women's sports has
been just as intentional as the building of it. So
we can't let our foot off the gas, and we
have to be willing to take it back to those
moments in history and tell the true story of what
came before. So false narratives that no one cared or
(44:21):
the product wasn't deserving can be rightly shouted down. We
love that you're listening, but we want you to get
in the game every day too. So here's our good
game play the day Slices. We want to shout out
the duo sitting atop our March Sliceness bracket heading into
the weekends games, tied with five hundred ninety points each.
It's Raw Pick one perhaps Super Slice Aaron Raw and
(44:41):
the cleverly named go Away Kim Geaux surely a nod
to LSU coach Kim Moulkey. Seven slices are right behind
those two at five hundred and eighty points. Yours truly
bracket name Orange you Glad. Spain one is still in
the mix, tied for fifteenth with five hundred and sixty
and the good game producers are Neck and Neck. Alex
(45:02):
Asi's Loan bracket and Bianca's b Hillier six' one four
bracket are both tied for forty first at five hundred
and forty.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Points, now thank goodness for all of.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Us fourteen year Old Otto shellhammer isn't a, slice or
we'd all be chasing. Perfection The pittsburgh eighth grader has
the only perfect bracket left after the opening weekend in
the men's and women's, tournaments a perfect so far women's
bracket that Has texas winning it. All shellhammer told THE
ap quote it was one hundred percent. LUCK i know
basically nothing about any type.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Of basketball end.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Quote we'll link to the story about Shell hammer in
the show notes also. Slices just a heads up if
you're headed To phoenix for The final, four plan on
coming to see a live episode Of Good game With
Sarah Spain, Saturday april, fourth at one Pm eastern at
The Capitol One Tourney town With Sue bird And Diana. Tarassi,
yep we had so much fun last year and had
(45:53):
the most attended session in years per The Tourney town,
folks so we're running it. BACK i can't wait to
See diana's reaction to THE us from Her Door county bench,
dedication Especially nato The goat wearing her.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Jersey we always love to hear from.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
You to hit us up on, Email Good game at
wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight
seven two two oh four fifty seventy and don't forget to,
subscribe rate and, review just Like carissa From, florida who
called in with her review and left us this.
Speaker 6 (46:20):
Voicemail, Hi I'm carissa From, florida and i just wanted
to say thank you Because i've been listening to you
guys every day before the, news BEFORE i do, ANYTHING
i listen to you While i'm getting, ready and it's
just the light of my, day makes things start off.
Happier and especially want to thank you for yesterday's, Guest.
(46:43):
Cheryl i've been training for a triathlon and it has
gotten to the point Where i'm, LIKE i just have
to get through this workout And i'm so tired of
it AND i just want to get. Through but every
now and then you have a guest on that really it's,
home and listening to, HER i was, like, No i'm
(47:04):
going to be present in my, body AND i just
want you to know that WHEN i finished my first
triathlon In, june that you and your podcast and your crew.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
All had a lot to do with.
Speaker 6 (47:16):
That thank.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
You, yes, yes, yes we love this so.
Speaker 6 (47:21):
Much.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Carissa keep being, present keep thinking about that goal and
the satisfaction of having trained and worked toward that, goal
and selfishly from this busted old former athlete who really
misses training for. Competitions enjoyed that your body allows you
to wake up and, swim bike.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Run we're rooting for. You can't wait for your.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Post race review. Too now it's your, turn y'all rate and.
Review thanks for, Listening see you next. Week Good, Game,
Sierra Good Game, raw pick one and go, away kim
you so called gender. Testing Good game With Sarah spain
is an iheartwomen's sports production in partnership With Deep Blue
(47:59):
sports And. Energy you can find us on The iHeartRadio,
App Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your. Podcasts production
By Wonder Media, network our producers Are.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Alex azzi And Bianca.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Hillier our executive producers Are Christina, Everett Jesse, Katz Jenny
kaplan And Emily. Rudder our editors Are Emily, Rutterer Lucy,
Jones Britney martinez And Gianna. Palmer production assistants From Avery
loftus And I'm Your Host Sarah spain
Welcome the Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we followed
Azy Fud's lead and cut our fingernails.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm about to play the best part of my life, y'all.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
It's Friday, March twenty seventh, and on today's show will
be speaking with vice President of Sporting for the NWSL
and former New Zealand national team player, Sarah Gregorius. We
talk about the natural tension between sport and business, the
role the US is playing in global women soccer, how
she's working to fix the narrative that the league doesn't
center the sport of soccer enough, and how her lifelong
(00:28):
tendency to be a troublemaker and agitator serves her on
the job. Plus, the Olympics are doing a dangerous backstroke
a record climbed to the summit and put on your
party dresses. You're all invited to my super Sweet sixteen.
It's all coming up right after this. Welcome Backslaicays, Happy Friday.
(00:53):
Here's what you need to know today, starting with college hoops.
It's sweet sixteen time and today my schedule is practically
begging you to duck out of work a little early,
kicking things.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Off at two thirty pm Eastern.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
It's Hannah Hidalgo and number six Notre Dame versus MICHAELA.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Blake's and number two Vanderbilt. What a matchup.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Friend of the Show, Blake says, already set a Vanderbilt
single scoring record in the first round game. She surpassed
Wendy Schulten's eight hundred and fifty five points. Schulten's record
had stood since the nineteen eighty nine to ninety season.
At five pm Eastern today, number four UNC takes on
number one Yukon, who are coming off in absolute beatdown
of Syracuse in the second round. Ezy Fudd had thirty
(01:35):
four points and eight threes, both matched career highs in
her final game at Gamble Pavilion, and the Huskies literally
made Syracuse cry, holding the Orange to twelve points at
the half.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Tough.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
This will mark Yukon's thirty second straight Sweet sixteen appearance,
the longest in Division one history. At seven thirty Eastern tonight,
it's number four Minnesota versus number one UCLA Bruin Senior
Laura Betts also capped off her home career in style,
putting up a career high thirty five points in her
last game. At Polly Pavilion. The night cap tonight, we'll
see number three Duke take on number two LSU. That's
(02:10):
a ten pm Eastern tip off. Second half of the
Sweet sixteen matchups go down tomorrow. We'll link to that
schedule in the show notes. Be sure you don't miss
the seven thirty pm Eastern matchup between this year Cinderella,
Number ten Virginia and number three TCU. Virginia is the
first ever team to play in the First four and
make it to the Sweet sixteen. The first pair of
(02:30):
Elite Eight games will be Sunday afternoon, and if you
still haven't gotten your fill of women's hoops after that,
tune into the Celebrating Pat Summit Live Reunion Special seven
pm Eastern Sunday on ESPN two to see Friend of
the Show Holly rochat with former Lady Vols stars Kandice Parker,
Nikki Fargas, and Andrea Carter, as well as South Carolina
head coach John Staley as they share memories of Summit's
(02:52):
career even more college hoops. On Wednesday, the finalists for
the Naysmith Women's Player of the Year were announced. UCLA
senior Lauren Betts Vanderbilt sophomore michaeleb Blake's, Yukon graduate guard
Asyfudd and Yukon sophomore center Sarah Strong. A lot of
friends of the show in the mix there. We're not
going to pick favorites to the NWSL. After an ugly
(03:12):
loss in Week two, the Seattle Rain enjoyed a bounce
back win Wednesday night, besting last year's NWSL Shield winners
the Kansas City Current three nil in Spokane. Meantime, expansion
side Denver Summit are in the first win in franchise
history Wednesday, defeating defending champions got the FC two nil
behind goals from Melissa Custler and Natasha Flint. Custler is
now the second ever NWSL player to score in each
(03:35):
of her club's first three regular season matches. The Summit
will play the first home game in franchise history tomorrow,
a two pm Eastern kickoff against the Washington Spirit. Over
fifty thousand tickets have been sold for the opener at
Mile High Stadium, home to the NFL's Denver Broncos, setting
the game up to break the NWSL's inaugural home game
attendance record and.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
The all time single match attendance record.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So, just like we did with the Austin Legacy, we
reached out to the Summit for a little hype minute
ahead of their big day.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Here's Jordan Angelie.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
What's up, good game. I am here to introduce you
to one of NWSL's new kids on the block, Denver
Summit FC. I'm Jordan Ageley, former WPS and NWSL midfielder,
current commentator in NWSL, and one of the founders of
the movement to bring NWSL to Denver. The past three
years for me, as a lake with Colorado native, have
(04:27):
been a whirlwind to see a dream become reality and
watch Denver Summit take the pitch in twenty twenty six.
On the field, the Summit have already proven in their
first three games that they are going to play an
exciting brand of soccer under Nick Kushing. They're led by
Colorado native Janine Sonis and have internationals like Tosh Plint, who,
(04:47):
with her English flair, has a little extra cheekiness under pressure,
and Melissa Cussler, a German international who has three goals
in three games and is putting the league on notice.
Denver Summit's colors are an homage to the landscape in
colorful Colorado, and I am keen on the green kit,
a little ode to the big, beautiful evergreens we have
(05:09):
all over the state. The home opener for the Summit
is March twenty eighth at empower Field at Mile High,
and it looks like Colorado is going to show up
in a big way, not just breaking a single game
NWSL attendance record, but smashing it. Denver Summit is the
first ever women's professional soccer team in Colorado, and Colorado
(05:31):
is showing up for it, and that alone is something
to get excited about.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
New kids on the block. That's Boston's account, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
But thank you Jordan, and thanks to Shelby with the
Summit for your help too. Also, Damn, the more I
hear about this first home game, the more I'm bummed
that I didn't book my flight. That is going to
be a scene more soccer. We'll link to the full
NWSL schedule in the show notes, but wanted to shout
out tomorrow's match between the Boston Legacy and Utah Royals
FC at twelve Eastern home game for Boston in which
(06:00):
you know doesn't mean it's in Boston because of all
those stadium problems, but I digress. The Legacy are hosting
a pregame celebration of women in Sports at Gillette Stadium,
and after the too Many Balls fiasco, we love to
see that the team is honoring some of Boston's female athletes.
The event includes a pregame panel with Olympic rower Christy Wagner,
soccer legend Christine Lilly, and Paralympic swimmer Anna Johannes, plus
(06:22):
autograph sessions with friend at the show, Lacks star Charlotte
North and her Boston Guard teammate Rachel Hall, and some
members of the Boston Banshees of the Women's Elite Rugby League.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
If you're in the ariat, the event starts at ten am.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Also at halftime, the team is celebrating Irish Heritage Day
with quote unquote viral bagpiping sensation Ali the Piper, so
BYOCB bring your own corned beef.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
More soccer news.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
A British Man who admitted to writing racially abusive messages
on social media about England and Gotham FC defender Jess
Carter was given a suspended jail sentence, assigned ten days
community work, banned from football map for four years, given
a three month curfew and find about.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Three hundred and twenty dollars.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
The man made the comments under an anonymous account during
the Women's Euros last year.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Carter, who has over fifty caps.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
For England, has previously said the online abuse cost her
to step away from social media, and she since started
using her platform to speak out against racism in soccer.
We'll link to an interview in the Show Notes that
Carter did with the Line Show talking about how her
team empowered her to speak out to the Olympics. On Thursday,
the International Olympic Committee announced a new policy banning trans
women from the Games, writing in part quote eligibility for
(07:33):
any female category event at the Olympic Games or any
other IOC event, including individual and team sports, is now
limited to biological females determined on the basis of a
one time srwide gene screening end quote.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
More on that sroy Thing in a.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Sec The policy also restricts female athletes with medical conditions
known as differences in sex development or DSD, and that
includes two time Olympic champion on the track castor semena.
While forcing athletes to endure genetic tests is a massive
step backwards. Frankly, it's not all that surprising. IOC President
Kirsty Coventry made it clear early in her tenure that
(08:07):
quote unquote, protecting the female category was a priority for her,
and she quickly created a working group to tackle the
supposed problem after taking the helm of the organization.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
The IOC set on Thursday.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It was the working group that decided on this new
policy based on quote unquote scientific evidence, which they did
not cite.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Or detail in any way.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
The policy also aligns with President Trump's Executive Order on
Women's Sports ahead of the twenty twenty eight Los Angeles
Games and at Mirrors World Athletics Sry gene testing policy
put in place last year. Now, what is the sroy gene?
While we're going to get into it in more detail
in an upcoming episode, but the IOC argues that the
presence or absence of the Sroy gene is a reliable
(08:47):
proxy for determining biological sex aka, if an athlete has
the gene, they should be banned from competing with women.
Medical experts and geneticists have long argued, though, that that's
a far too simplistic take with seriously damaging consequences for
athletes mentally, physically, and financially. This is also not the
first time the IOC IS implemented s RY testing at
(09:09):
the Games. It was used throughout the nineties before medical
experts persuaded the IOC to drop it for the two
thousand Sydney Olympics. Now it's back rearing its ugly head again.
We're going to talk a lot more about this in
an upcoming episode, but in the meantime, we'll remind you
of that fantastic pod Tested, which covers the history of
these kinds of policies. You remember we discussed it in
(09:30):
detail with producer Rio Evelyth back in twenty twenty four.
Worth going back now to listen to understand why these
quote unquote gender tests are so problematic to the WNBA.
The league announced Wednesday they'll hold the expansion Draft for
new franchises, the Portland Fire and Toronto Tempo on April third,
just one week from today. The process starts tomorrow, though
(09:50):
the expansion side that wins a coin toss will choose
either the first pick in the expansion Draft or the
number six pick in the college Draft. Existing teams have
until Sunday to submit a list of five protected players
that won't be eligible for selection players they had the
rights to on the final day of the twenty twenty
five regular season. Any player who has five or more
years of service after the twenty twenty five season must
(10:12):
be listed as an unrestricted free agent or left unprotected.
The new teams will pick from the unprotected players, with
no more than one player per existing team getting chosen.
Each new team may also select one player who's a
potential unrestricted free agent, and would then be allowed to
negotiate a supermax contract with those players. Now, obviously it's
a different sport, but even just saying the word protected
(10:34):
player still gives me PTSD from the Hillary Knight Boston
Fleet debacle. Speaking of the PWHL, let's go back to
Wednesday night, when I took a pack of twenty to
the Takeover Tour game just outside Chicago. It was a
big night for the struggling Seattle Torrent as the league's
worst team bested the New York Sirens four to one.
Teresa Schoffsaal scored her first goal since being traded to
(10:54):
the Torrent and added two assists for a three point night.
Though it wasn't a sell out. The crowd was big
and louder than the December Chicago stop, which is good news,
as rumor has it the PWHL's looking at adding an
expansion team here in Chicago. Fingers crossed signs and chants
of we want a team were met with roars from
the crowd all night, a crowd that officially got the
(11:16):
PWHL passed the two million fans all time mark. The
next Takeover Tour stop in Detroit on Saturday, marks another
milestone for the PWHL. Ally Financial and Script Sports partnered
with the league to broadcast its first ever game on
national linear television in the US. The one pm Eastern
game between the New York Sirens and the Montreal Victoire
at Little Caesar's.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Arena will air on Ion.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Now you remember, Friend of the Show Andrea Brimmer, who's
the CMO of Ally, told us about using the brand's
power and purse to move the NWSL Championship game to
prime time for the first time in.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
While she's added again, this time helping take the PWHL
to TVs across America to tennis, where the competition is
heating up at the Miami Open. Tuesday and Wednesday's quarter
finals had a strong US showing, with three of the
four matches featuring an American player, Coco Golf, Hailey Baptiste
and Jessica Pagoula. After all was said and done, though
just one of those players made it to Thursday's SEMIS,
(12:11):
reigning French Open champ Golf. We're recording this before Thursday Semis,
where Golf will play Carolina Muhova. The other semi and
Australian Open finals rematch between Arena Sebalnka and Elena Rebakina.
We'll link to the results in the show notes and
you can watch the finals Saturday at twelve thirty pm
Eastern on the Tennis Channel.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
All right, selice this, We're going to take a break
when we come back.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
A fascinating and super thoughtful convo with the NWSL.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Sarah Gregorius joining US now.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
She's the vice president of Sporting for the NWSL and
a former player for the New Zealand national team, earning
one hundred caps, playing in all of the Ferns matches
in the twenty eleven and twenty fifteen World Cups, and
playing in the twenty twelve and twenty sixteen Olympics in
twenty nineteen World Cup. She worked in global strategy and
policy leadership at fIF Pro before joining the NWSL in
twenty twenty four. She loves a cheesy Christmas sweater and
(13:06):
our names are spelled the same. But I'm Sarah and
she's Siah. It's Sarah Gregorious. How is my Kiwi accent?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
You know what?
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Pretty good? I've definitely heard worse.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Well, I mean, New Zealand is my opt out plan
if America continues on the path that's on.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So I need to ingratiate myself to the Kiwis. I
love it. There's so much.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I'm a little bit biased, b because it's definitely the
best place in the world.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
In the whole world. It's so beautiful.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
I love it so much.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And yet you're here in the US to help make
our league the best in the world. So thanks for
joining us. Congrats on your promotion named VP of Sporting
just a few weeks ago, and you, just as we
were getting ready for the show, told us how you
were welcomed into your new position by your staff.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Can you share that story?
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Yeah, of course they'll be thrilled that they've made the podcast. No,
I took right before the start of the NWSL season.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
It took a couple of weeks to go to New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Hadn't been home in a couple of years and wanted
to take the opportunity to do that. And while I
was away, my team got one hundred and forty tiny
little ducks and they decorated my new office, put them everywhere,
and i'm mean everywhere, like they were on my desk
of course, but there's also some on the ceiling, in
drawers everywhere. And I had a little sticky note on
(14:21):
my desk when I got back and I said, welcome back, Buffs.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
While you're away, we got all of your ducks.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
In a row, which I think was not only creative
but also a little bit endearing.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
I'm glad that they felt that they could do that.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, it seems like you must have a great relationship.
Hard to say whether they were decorating or pranking you,
but I appreciate the thought.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Nonetheless, what part of New Zealand did you get back?
Speaker 5 (14:45):
To Wellington?
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I grew up in Wellington and my parents are still
there with still quite a few of my friends, so
that's home for me.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Cool I got to go to Wellington for some of
the World Cup matches when I was out there, so
I got to see your home.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
It's very cute.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Were there for the Pan Spain game that was in Wellington?
Remember that one in the group stage?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
No, I think I can't remember who I was watching.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Can I tell you that I made the mistake of
leaving my sunglasses at home and that stadium I literally
was basically getting like a reflection from the surface of
the sun directly into my eyes. So I think I've
blacked out most of what I was watching. Yeah, what
were you going to point out about that one?
Speaker 5 (15:21):
No?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I just said it was a brilliant game. It was
one of the games of the group stage. Yeah, and
it was in Wellington. I was there as well.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I think i'd remember if I saw my Spain team
that I claimed just due to my last name and
no other connection whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So I don't think I've had that one.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
But what a cool stadium, what a cool place. So
let's talk about this new VP of Sporting role. What
excites you most about the job?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Well, it is a very interesting job because the remit
is basically to be the caretaker and the person who
was tasked with managing the sporting health of the league,
which is really the on field product. So for someone
like myself, you're mentioned it with my background and my
experience as a player, to be in a position to
really affect and impact that is huge. I take that
(16:08):
responsibility very seriously, and I also really enjoy it.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
It's been a ton of fun so far.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
It means that I can work with all of the
clubs across the NWSL, all of our partners stakeholders, work
with the team internally to make sure that we're looking
at the right things, coming up with the right initiatives,
the right programming.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
To support like the on field health of the league.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
And it is really just a great opportunity to enhance
the role that this league plays, not only within the
US sports ecosystem, but also the global women's football ecosystem,
which you know, the US, whether it's the national team
or the NWSL or the leagues that have been here
in the past, has always played such a leadership role
(16:50):
in the game. So to be in this position, to
be in this seat, is this brilliant. I'm really enjoying it.
There's so many things about it that excite me.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I think a lot of folks might not even be
entirely clear on what a sporting role is at a team,
but certainly not what it really entails at the league level.
So can you tell us a little bit more about
the specific responsibilities.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Sure, within our group, we look after everything from medical
and high performance all the way through to officiating. We
play a role in helping manage the talent pipeline, so
player development, sporting staff support so head coaches, the sporting
executives all the way through to the data analysts and
the performance staff at the clubs. We play a governance
(17:34):
role in and across all of that. So it's a
really broad space. There's so many different ways that you
can impact and affect that. And one of the other
things that I do which is very interesting is you
know that what is unique perhaps about women's soccer and
women's football is it's a global game. Some of the
other American sports don't have that particular context. So a
(17:54):
lot of my work is also around like how we
interact with global football, the global football governance frame work,
and making sure that our interests and our needs are
represented on that stage as well, and that we're advocating
for the things that makes sense for our players and
our clubs to really thrive. So it's a I mean,
we can go into a whole bunch of different areas,
but I think what's really important to remember is, you know,
(18:16):
the NWSL is a sports league, so it is really
at the center of everything that we're doing, and trying
to progress and promote and protect the game is really
what it's about. But it does it touches really like
a number of different areas.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
You got a big job, and more so than ever
of late in the last couple of years, the relationship
between the NWSL and Global women's Soccer has changed, just
with the amount of players going back and forth coming
to the league and going to other leagues. The questions
about the footprint and the schedule and how it interacts
with the rest of the world of sport is much
(18:49):
more complicated than in other sports, where the US declares
itself champions of the world when we win, even if
we're not playing the world. The soccer world is very
different and there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Of that communication that needs to go on. You know,
you just mentioned it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Sport is at the center of everything you do, and
you know, one criticism of the NWSL's front office in
the past has been what sometimes can feel like a
disconnect between the league and the actual product of soccer.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It feels like you can play a really big.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Role in making sure that the front office feels informed
and educated and passionate about the sport itself.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Is that a priority for you in this job?
Speaker 5 (19:21):
Totally? It really is.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
And we're sort of operating now with this virtuous cycle,
in this flywheel where you have a great sporting product,
which means bigger audiences, which means greater revenue, which circles
back around to you know, a better sporting product because
it can all be reinvested into the game. So that
is hugely critically important that we keep that focus.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
And of course there's.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
An element of you know, mainstreaming sporting insights and sporting
conversations into the broader business because there is and I
actually think this is really healthy, a natural tension between
sporting and business, right like you even for the sake
of and we know this occurs in other sports as well,
Like how do you build the game in a way
(20:08):
that makes sense for not only the in Stadia experience
but also the TV experience. How do you make sure
that the players can still thrive in that environment and
perform at their peak.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
So those conversations are really ongoing.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
But I actually really enjoy that part of it as well,
and I do think that that past criticism has probably
been very fair. The NWSLF had its first chief Sporting
director only begin in January of twenty and twenty three,
for example, in the league has existed for a lot
longer than that, so I never want to shy away
(20:40):
from the history in the past. I think there's huge
learnings to be taken, and the league is actively decided
to not have that repeat itself by having people sitting
in the type of position that I have now that
really managed that not only from like an internal mainstreaming
of the right topics across the board, but also to
make sure that we are proactively planning on how we
(21:00):
build on the product that we have and future proof
against what's to come in the industry, but also in
a really exciting and innovative way as well.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah so smart, And yeah, I mean centering the soccer
being played in the marketing and promotion and selling of
the league is a huge part of it too, and
that'll only be easier for the NWSL to do when
it's supported by all the work that you're doing. The
insights that you're coming up with American fans are interesting.
There are a lot of less informed American fans when
it comes to the game of footy because it hasn't
(21:30):
always been traditionally our go to and yet the ones
that are informed are so passionate and outspoken that they're
demand for the league to share the insights and to
reveal what it's working on. When it comes to centering,
the sport can seem outsized and louder than maybe even
the number of people calling for it. But when you
can answer that and say here's all the things we're
(21:51):
doing and here's the job that I have, it's great.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
It's really fantastic.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
And you haven't been with the league long, just since
twenty twenty four, but there's been a lot of growth
and change even in that short What are some of
the areas where you've really noticed it most that the
league is changing.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
Well, great question.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I think there's been a really interesting pervot towards wanting
to focus more on play health and innovation around that
and looking I obviously acknowledge like, particularly given what my
role was prior to coming too. The NWSL obviously acknowledged
that player care was near the front and center for
the NWSL for a long time, and I think going
(22:30):
through what the league and what the players and the
clubs went through, and then arriving now at a point
where the conversation, parts of the conversation is certainly now
about like how can we do more? How can we
do more for the players? How can we invest in
their health? How can we invest in And the term
that I like to use, rather than injury prevention or
anything like that, is how do we increase player availability?
(22:52):
And that obviously goes into wanting to mitigate and prevent injury,
but it also goes into career longevity. How can we
have great players playing brilliant football over a longer period
of time. And I think there's been a really exciting
and interesting pivot in Narrogard and I'm hugely passionate personally
about that particular area, and I'm really proud that the
(23:13):
league is taking steps to invest in it. I also
think the league is working really hard and we're obviously
at the forefront of this, and it's critically important if
you're evaluating sporting performance, is better understanding data and having
an infrastructure that can support the ingestion of data from
multiple sources, and then being in a position to really
(23:33):
churn out meaningful individualized insights. And I don't mean individualized
insights from like an individual player perspective, but individual to
the sport.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Of women's football.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
And we know that there just is not enough research
and not enough understanding about that particular, particularly from the
lens of the athlete. So I'm really looking forward to
continuing network and We've done some great foundational movements over
the past, like at months, I think in particular, and
I'm excited for that to grow further and for us
(24:04):
to then pivot into really driving some innovations in that
space and not just you know, like I've said before,
individualized towards individual players, but you know, we have to
wrap our arms around the people that take care of
the players, the support staff that are working in the clubs.
I think we're also taking like a number of really
positive steps to better support the technical and sporting staffs
(24:27):
that the league's knowing how much influence they have on
the players and therefore on the sporting product. So those
are areas that I'm really excited about. But I mean,
I could just talk about so many other things. I mean,
you talked about you talked about the American fan, and
I think the attitude towards women's soccer here is actually
in general, whether it's from fans to the boardroom, is
(24:48):
actually so interesting and so exciting. There's passion and ambition
that I haven't seen replicated really in other parts of
the world. And I don't care what people's entry point
is into the game.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
I think here people really fall in love with it.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
They fall in love with the success, they fall in
love with the players, they fall in love with the atmosphere,
the inclusion, the.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Vibes that it creates.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
And it's the same with then turning that into you know,
meaningful and impactful investment as well, whether that's as a
fan or as an owner or investor. So I just
wanted to acknowledge that because I think it's it's kind
of the other side of the coin to that whole
fan conversation, as I've never seen passion like it, and
it's so so interesting but so exciting and fun to
(25:33):
be part of.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah, we get spoiled over here, and then athletes from
other countries come over and talk about the different level
of investment and care and training facility and everything else,
and it's really something to be proud of.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
And you know, I will say.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
The greater the investment into this league and the teams,
the more it allows the league to focus on and
have the bandwidth to care about players in ways that
I think. You have to understand it's your product. And
also folks have to understand that when you have a
league that is just starting out, you are pulled in
eight million directions at once, and so trying to figure
(26:08):
out how to stay afloat market pay people do the
things like you wouldn't think that the player would fall
through the cracks, But sometimes the simplest thing, which is
the product on the field, feels like the thing you
don't have to pay as much attention to as everything
behind the scenes that's falling apart. And now I think
with all the research being done into women's sports and
women athletes in particular, you can marry that with the
investment into these teams and really start to create these
(26:30):
incredibly stellar environments for people to thrive and to be
their best players, which is so exciting.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
You know, you said you.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Care particularly about advocating for athletes, and in your previous
job at fIF Pro that was a big part of it.
And I think that that goes way way back because
I've heard you say in interviews that you grew up
as like a bit of a troublemaker and always willing
to push back a little bit. So before we even
get to how that manifest in your career, I wonder
if you have a good example, you know, maybe one
of those stories that the family likes to retell over
(26:58):
and over about naughty young Sarah.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Yeah, I have few, to be honest, I am a
metal child and I grew up between two brothers, an
older brother and a younger brother. And you can't really
see it on this interview, but I'm not very big.
I'm about five foot nothing. You know, I don't have
a lot of a lot of size, and it became
very apparent when I was growing up that I couldn't
(27:22):
compete with my brothers physically, so I had to outsmart
them and out with them. The story that my mum
likes to tell us there was there was a bike
in the backyard and the three of us wanted to
ride it, and my older brothers were really fighting about
it and rather than engaging in the fight. While they
were preoccupied like sort of attempting to throw punches and
(27:46):
really have it out. I just snuck around the side,
picked up the bike and went off and I found
a way to.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
Like have my little play on it return it.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
They hadn't even noticed, and they continued to fight about it.
And the reason why I think that translates a little
bit into my what's ended up becoming my career is
there's always a way forwards, and there's always a way
to get positive outcomes and to get positive momentum. Sometimes
it just doesn't look like the most obvious way forwards,
(28:17):
but it is. I think growing up in that environment
taught me how to think a little bit laterally and
to rather than spend all of my time raging against
the system, it's actually working really hard to understand it
and find ways to maneuver within it, because otherwise I
could have spent a lot of energy trying to fight
my two brothers, who are much bigger than me. My
younger brother was a professional rugby player, which gives you
(28:39):
an understanding of how big he was. But you know,
it's about taking a moment and taking the opportunity to
get something that you desire.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Well, what that anecdote also made me think of is
not always but stereotypical male versus female leadership, right, and
you went, you went and fixed the problem instead of
over the problem. This coming from a country of New
Zealand that has multiple female prime ministers that have been
at the head of the country, while we hear toil
away without ever having handed over the reins to a
(29:11):
woman to see how that might go. But I digress
back to you being a troublemaker with an intentional nature
to you. Your teammates kind of figured out pretty early
that you were willing to speak up for players and
fight for resources and respect and stuff. When did you
first realize that advocacy was something that came sort of
naturally for you.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Probably when I was already doing it.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Was not really something that I ever sought out.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
I think, you know, when you're in a team environment,
you play the role that not so much is handed
to you, but the one that is going to be
most effective, whether it's on the field or off the field.
As a teammate and as a person who was also
interested and I think, at times to be honest, somewhat
confused by our treatment.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
I wanted to solve it.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
And I was always part of those discussions that we
would have as like a team or a leadership group
on how to address certain things, you know, to better
support us and to better support our performance.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
And probably in those conversations they.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Just decided that, you know what, you're talking a lot,
and here, why don't you talk a lot out there?
And ten take this conversation forwards for us. And actually,
as I sort of said earlier, I didn't mind doing it.
I wanted to follow the breadcrumbs and figure out actually
like what was really going on and if we could
find like workable solutions to improve things. Most of the
(30:34):
time people don't have bad and tin they just have
a lack of understanding as well. So I don't want
to give the impression that I was like kicking down
doors or like, you know, putting my foot on anybody's
throat in order to get things done. It was it
was actually really about like that advocacy, but also trying
to sit down and figure out solutions.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
And you know, I got a lot of.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Experience as I was playing, particularly for my national team,
about like collective baggaining and negotiations and labor relations and
the role that employers and employees can play in improving
that by those stretches in and around the game and
in and around.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
A football team.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
So it was hugely interesting, and I think as I
went through my football career and then retired and ended
up working at fief Pro, it also gave me a
great insight into the world of governance, the world of
football governance, which is actually like a really complex I
find it interesting other people may not really interesting part
of football and a unique part of football, as you
(31:33):
already said earlier.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, I think there are people myself included, that have
a natural interest in understanding why things are the way
they are, especially if they're not equal or fair, and
being really driven by a desire to see justice across
either your own life or the lives of others, and
that takes you down a path of like better understanding
why things ended up the way they are and how you.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Can change them.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You know, you mentioned fIF Pro you were there kind
of while you were still playing and then right after
you were retired. I wonder what some of the big
things you learned from your time there was. Because you're
representing players across the globe sort of like the Worldwide
Union for Footballers, and you take a lot of that
role and dilute it down to just the NWSL in
the role that you have now trying to figure out
how to serve the players that make up the sport.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Working at Thief Pro, it's a global international organization, So
that was already like really interesting, really fascinating, really challenging.
Was working cross culturally, but I also worked across the
whole spectrum of the football industry. So we still like
supported some of the leading countries and the leading federations,
(32:40):
leading leagues with their collective agreements, with their representation, but
you also had some really difficult positions and some really
difficult situations that we also dealt with the players at
the total other end of the spectrum. So day to day,
week to week, it was fascinating, it always looked different.
Speaker 5 (32:59):
It was also very.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Hard emotionally at times to be faced with some of
those challenges. I mean, some things made it into the
public domain and others didn't. And then the other piece
of it, which is what I'm bringing to the NWSL
as well as just understanding the International Football Governance Framework,
what it means to work with the confederations and with
FIFA and with the other representative collective bodies, whether that's
(33:24):
what used to be the European Club Association and all
of those organizations, to try and figure out, Okay, collectively, how.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
Do we progress this game, how do we move it forwards?
Speaker 4 (33:33):
How do I make sure that players are right at
the heart of those decisions?
Speaker 5 (33:38):
What are the positions, what's the research that we need
to do in order to underpin it. So it was
a little bit like this role.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
It was hugely diverse, working across the spectrum of people,
organizations and challenges, but it was a great introduction to
the world of football governance and I'm really proud of
the progress that we were able to make and the
impact that we had on half of the players. And
I think FIFA is such a brilliant organization and so
important for the game.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
You know, you mentioned your work at fIF Pro in
a previous interview sort of felt akin to social justice
work at times in the way that you were advocating
for athletes. Do you see that you're able to still
apply that filter to your work with the NWSL and
potentially even helping give the league itself a voice and
a perspective that isn't just soccer, but is about more
(34:25):
than just that, particularly in the way it represents women
at a time like this in our country.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Definitely, sometimes I don't I think it's maybe underestimated, and
I don't think it can be overstated how important America,
the United States of America, is to women's football, and
is to the ongoing progress and professionalization of the game,
whether that's the legacy that's been created by the US
(34:51):
Women's National Team and the equal pay agreement that they reached,
whether it's the NWSL and groundbreaking CBAS. But also you know,
a lot of records, whether it's attendance or sponsorship, revenue,
whatever media deals, whatever it may be. It pulls the
rest of the industry along. And I do think it's
(35:11):
really important to always remind ourselves of the role that
we play, rather than getting to insulate it and just
thinking about it in the context of our own backyard
here in the US.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
So and that actually, I know that the.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
NWSL provides inspiration to other players around the world, whether
that's to play here, whether that's to have the types
of rights afforded to players here. So it maybe it
doesn't feel like it's consistently social justice work. But I
think the impact in the example that the NWSL can
set should not be taken for granted and should be factored.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
In too, how we innovate and how we therefore lead
the game forwards.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I think women athletes and women's leagues, particularly right now
in our current state, have an incredible amount of power
in showing representation of women that are in opposition to
where some folks would like us to be forced back
into the lanes and the spaces that they believe in
which we belong.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
You know, when I.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Joined the ownership group for the Chicago Stars, which I
was part of for a couple of years, it occurred
to me that I.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Was suddenly quote unquote the man. And I spent so.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Much of my career pushing back on the man and
demanding better for athletes and asking for accountability from higher
ups when they failed or didn't do what I thought
was right. And I wonder how you consider your role
representing kind of the man now instead of fighting against
the you know, larger hymn with a capital.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
H I am.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
I had a few comments when I made the decision
to join the league, which is the employer side of
things that I'd gone to the dark side, and my
response to that was, like, I mean, how good create
chaos and create change from within?
Speaker 5 (36:50):
Right, It's essentially a very effective path.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Not that I'm here if my boss is listening, not
that I need to create chaos by any stretch. But again,
as I said earlier, if you have the attitude of
wanting to follow the bread crumbs and understand how decisions
are being made and therefore like where you can be
to be impactful, it does lead you to a league
governance role. And so it's not like I personally don't
(37:14):
think being on this side of things means that my
mission or my values has to change.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
It's just a different operating environment.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
And the perspective you might need to get it done better.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Exactly, or like, what's the language that makes sense to
people working in this space, because it's different to the
language that you might use with players or with player
associations or player representatives.
Speaker 5 (37:36):
So it's also like adapting and.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Changing, like how I approach things the narrative that I present,
but not not to fundamentally change who I am or
what the goals or what the needs of the industry are.
So it's it's at a very personal level. It's also
part of the extension of my growth and my development
as a person within my career as well. So it's
(38:01):
it doesn't feel like I'm working for the man. It
just feels like I'm in another environment where I'm learning
how to grow this game and how to progress it sustainably.
And I certainly feel with this role and being in
this position that I'm well suited to do so. But
I also, like, I really hope that others will continue
(38:25):
to challenge the league too. I think that's so critically important.
I think there always needs to be healthy tension if
you want to make progress well.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
And from what I've gathered from you here and what
I've heard about you from others and write about you, like,
I'm just extremely excited to see what you do in
this role and the ways that you can help make
this league, you know, the best in the world. The
last question I want to ask you is about competition,
because I know part of your role is improving competition
and player experience and performance.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
What do you make of the first couple weeks of
the season.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
What's really interesting is, like we've hired within the sporting
team just recently the very first scene manager of officiating,
and he's been busy so far, a.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Couple more than the half of last year's total in
the first two weeks.
Speaker 5 (39:09):
Yeah, which I think.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
I mean, this league talks off a lot about like
how competitive it all is, and I think you're.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Seeing players are certainly leaving it all out there.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
What I'm really interested in seeing the development across this
year in particular, is, you know, we've got so many
coaches from all over the world playing in the league now,
on top of some really exciting players, and I think
with a couple of teams in particularly, starting to see
more diversity in the style of play because these coaches
have come in and they've had time to work with
(39:42):
their players, And to me, that's really interesting and I
think it's great for the league as a global league
and as a destination league that there are different styles
of play emerging. There are clubs that are working really
hard on their identity and they're playing philosophy as well,
and that's coming through. Not to mention like there's there's
the maybe it seems obvious to me, but it's.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Probably worth saying.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
We're a year out from the women's World Cup all
of the players, and I've certainly seen this in the
individual performances of some players are trying to get you know,
their catch the eye. Yeah, Butt's on a seat to
go to Brazil next year and be part of that.
So I think as the season goes on, we're also
going to see some players working so hard to find form.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
And I think that's really exciting.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Yeah, if I was a national team coach, I would
be both excited and probably a little bit dismayed at
how difficult my decisions are going to have to be
like leading into that competition, because we know, we know
as qualification wraps up that you know, all eyes are
going to be on Brazil next year and this league's
role in developing players and being a place where players
(40:50):
are playing well, so not only pushed to get into
national teams, but then to perform on the world stage.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
That that's another thing that I'm really looking forward to.
And it's always unique the year before a Women's World Cup.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah, well, my eyes are also on Brazil, and I
would like about in the seat covering it. So sponsors,
I hope you've got your eye on the work we're
doing here and the ways we're really pushing our performance
to make sure we've got a spot. I've still never
been to South America, so which sponsor will be the
one that helps open my horizons and send me on
a plane. Sarah was so great to talk to you.
(41:21):
I'm genuinely so enthusiastic for what you're going to do
with the league and really appreciate you giving us some time.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
No, thank you for the conversation, great questions. I hope
you get a sponsor and we see you in Brazil
next year.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
It's going to be massive.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Thanks again to Sarah for chatting with us. We have
to take another break when we return. It's Slice madness,
y'all or is it March sliceness? Either way, stick around
Welcome back Slics. In honor of Women's History Month. Every
Friday this month, we're doing a special edition of Take
(41:59):
It Back that looks back at legendary games, athletes, or
origin stories. This week, in honor of the Denver Summits
record breaking home opener at Mile High, let's take it
back to two noteworthy moments in attendance at women's soccer games.
Let's begin in England in nineteen twenty, the popular women's
soccer team, the dick Kerr Ladies, were playing a Boxing
day match against rivals Saint Helen's at Goodison Park in Liverpool,
(42:22):
with money raised going to men wounded.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
In the war.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Fifty three thousand fans attended, with even more turned away.
With the stadium at capacity. It was one of many
women's soccer games drawing huge crowds around that time. Well
one year later, angry that the women's games made money
they couldn't control and alleging that not all funds from
charity games went appropriately to charities, the sports governing body,
(42:45):
the FA, voted to ban women's football, ruling that women's
games were barred from FA affiliated football grounds.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Their ruling stated in part.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Quote, complaints having been made as to football being played
by women, Council felt impelled to express the strong opinion
that the game of football is quite unsuitable for females
and should not be encouraged end quote. Women's teams were
forced to play in small venues and small fields, extinguishing
their crowds and delegitimizing their efforts. The ban lasted fifty
(43:13):
one years. Fast forward to nineteen seventy one and the
all but forgotten unofficial Women's World Cup held in Mexico
City and Guadalajara. Teams came from Argentina, Denmark, England, France,
Italy and Mexico and played in front of over one
hundred thousand fans in Azteca Stadium, Yes one hundred thousand,
(43:34):
and yet FIFA wouldn't officially recognize a Women's World Cup
until nineteen ninety one, a full twenty years later, because
it wasn't a true World Cup. That nineteen seventy one
tournament went all but forgotten until the folks behind the
incredible documentary COPA seventy one unearthed the footage and told
the story. Go watch that doc and prepare to be
enraged and inspired by the nearly lost history of that
(43:57):
incredible event. Now I bring these two up because it's
worth remembering as we celebrate massive moments like the Summits Opener,
that rejecting and stunting the growth of women's sports has
been just as intentional as the building of it. So
we can't let our foot off the gas, and we
have to be willing to take it back to those
moments in history and tell the true story of what
came before. So false narratives that no one cared or
(44:21):
the product wasn't deserving can be rightly shouted down. We
love that you're listening, but we want you to get
in the game every day too. So here's our good
game play the day Slices. We want to shout out
the duo sitting atop our March Sliceness bracket heading into
the weekends games, tied with five hundred ninety points each.
It's Raw Pick one perhaps Super Slice Aaron Raw and
(44:41):
the cleverly named go Away Kim Geaux surely a nod
to LSU coach Kim Moulkey. Seven slices are right behind
those two at five hundred and eighty points. Yours truly
bracket name Orange you Glad. Spain one is still in
the mix, tied for fifteenth with five hundred and sixty
and the good game producers are Neck and Neck. Alex
(45:02):
Asi's Loan bracket and Bianca's b Hillier six' one four
bracket are both tied for forty first at five hundred
and forty.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Points, now thank goodness for all of.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Us fourteen year Old Otto shellhammer isn't a, slice or
we'd all be chasing. Perfection The pittsburgh eighth grader has
the only perfect bracket left after the opening weekend in
the men's and women's, tournaments a perfect so far women's
bracket that Has texas winning it. All shellhammer told THE
ap quote it was one hundred percent. LUCK i know
basically nothing about any type.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Of basketball end.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Quote we'll link to the story about Shell hammer in
the show notes also. Slices just a heads up if
you're headed To phoenix for The final, four plan on
coming to see a live episode Of Good game With
Sarah Spain, Saturday april, fourth at one Pm eastern at
The Capitol One Tourney town With Sue bird And Diana. Tarassi,
yep we had so much fun last year and had
(45:53):
the most attended session in years per The Tourney town,
folks so we're running it. BACK i can't wait to
See diana's reaction to THE us from Her Door county bench,
dedication Especially nato The goat wearing her.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Jersey we always love to hear from.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
You to hit us up on, Email Good game at
wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight
seven two two oh four fifty seventy and don't forget to,
subscribe rate and, review just Like carissa From, florida who
called in with her review and left us this.
Speaker 6 (46:20):
Voicemail, Hi I'm carissa From, florida and i just wanted
to say thank you Because i've been listening to you
guys every day before the, news BEFORE i do, ANYTHING
i listen to you While i'm getting, ready and it's
just the light of my, day makes things start off.
Happier and especially want to thank you for yesterday's, Guest.
(46:43):
Cheryl i've been training for a triathlon and it has
gotten to the point Where i'm, LIKE i just have
to get through this workout And i'm so tired of
it AND i just want to get. Through but every
now and then you have a guest on that really it's,
home and listening to, HER i was, like, No i'm
(47:04):
going to be present in my, body AND i just
want you to know that WHEN i finished my first
triathlon In, june that you and your podcast and your crew.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
All had a lot to do with.
Speaker 6 (47:16):
That thank.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
You, yes, yes, yes we love this so.
Speaker 6 (47:21):
Much.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Carissa keep being, present keep thinking about that goal and
the satisfaction of having trained and worked toward that, goal
and selfishly from this busted old former athlete who really
misses training for. Competitions enjoyed that your body allows you
to wake up and, swim bike.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Run we're rooting for. You can't wait for your.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Post race review. Too now it's your, turn y'all rate and.
Review thanks for, Listening see you next. Week Good, Game,
Sierra Good Game, raw pick one and go, away kim
you so called gender. Testing Good game With Sarah spain
is an iheartwomen's sports production in partnership With Deep Blue
(47:59):
sports And. Energy you can find us on The iHeartRadio,
App Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your. Podcasts production
By Wonder Media, network our producers Are.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Alex azzi And Bianca.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Hillier our executive producers Are Christina, Everett Jesse, Katz Jenny
kaplan And Emily. Rudder our editors Are Emily, Rutterer Lucy,
Jones Britney martinez And Gianna. Palmer production assistants From Avery
loftus And I'm Your Host Sarah spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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