March 24, 2026 • 50 mins
Now known as the Langham Four, the quartet of Annie Costabile, Doug Feinburg, Alexa Philippou, and Jackie Powell camped out on the streets of New York to bring the world updates on the WNBA CBA negotiations. They join Sarah to share how they handled working alongside their competitors, what they learned about each other during long talks into the wee hours of the morning, and their biggest takeaways on the new agreement -- from salary cap to revenue share. Plus, we’re seeing red, the bench isn’t always a bad place to be, and -- en garde! -- the (sword) Fighting Irish make history.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where As of
this recording, we're still tied for the lead and the
Welcome to the March Madness Party bracket, and we expect
we will be in the lead until the final buzzer sounds.
Of course, if we don't win, you'll never know, because
we sure won't.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Be telling you. It's Tuesday, March twenty fourth.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Then on today's show, we're pulling up a few extra
chairs to get the gang back together. The gang being
the Langham Four, the group of journalists who camped out
outside the WNBACBA negotiations to bring us updates, street side picks,
and eventually news of a deal. Front Office Sports Annie Costable,
the AP's Doug Feinberg, ESPN's Alexa Philippoo and the Nines
(00:39):
Jackie Powell, who all joined me to share their stories
from the trenches and their biggest takeaways of the new CBA.
Plus we're seeing red the bench isn't always a bad
place to be and on Guard, the sword fight and
Irish make History.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
It's all coming up right after this welcome back slices.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Here's what you need to know today, Starting with college
hoops were just like that there are only sixteen teams
left in the running for the national title. On Sunday night,
the last game of the night was a thriller as
number three seed TCU squeaked past number six seed Washington
sixty two to fifty nine in ot Washington led twenty
seven to nineteen at the half after holding the horn
(01:25):
Frogs to just six points in the second quarter, their
lowest scoring quarter of the season, but TCU rallied in
the fourth, and standout senior guard Olivia Miles even had
a clean look to win it in regulation, a fade
away three for all the glory, but it was no good.
Miles redeemed herself with flashes of brilliance in overtime and
led the team with a double double in the win,
putting up eighteen points, ten rebounds, and some very clutch
(01:48):
passes Miles magic.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
During March Madness.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Say Less a few days ago, Miles talked about her
decision to transfer from Notre Dame to TCU last summer
and use her fifth year of eligibility despite being a
projected top lottery.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Pick in last year's WNBA draft.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
She said she didn't blame the critics for doubting her
choice quote what I left on the table seems stupid
and seemed like what is she doing that? I knew
deep in my heart that I needed one more year
to be ready. This year has paid off for me
in ways that I can't even describe.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Entering the draft after a potentially deep run with the
Horned Frogs and with the new CBA in place, Miles
is looking real smart. Now to Monday, where the madness
continued with a second day of second round games, highlighted
by an early wild one Number three Louisville beating number
six Alabama sixty nine sixty eight in a tight game
that saw.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Eighteen lead changes.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
We're recording this ahead of the final games of the day,
including all three matchups featuring number one seeded teams, so
we'll link to the full bracket and results in the
show notes. And if you're now living in a reality
where Yukon, Texas and South Carolina are out of the tournament,
I fear the apocalypse grows near.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
And at this point, honestly.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
We'll take it to the NWSL and this and Diego
waves two to one win over the Utah Royals Sunday night,
a game that featured yet another red card. We're actually
considering renaming the NWSL the Nasty Women's Soccer League. Games
are off to a feisty start, that's for sure, and
unlike that rain Thorns match on Friday that saw two
(03:18):
red cards, this time the card actually played a key role.
The score was tied one to one when UTA's tATu
Mulazo was sent off with the card in the eighty
second minute, opening the door for San Diego to get ahead.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
In the final ten minutes.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Rookie Leah Godfree found the back of the net for
the Wave in the eighty seventh minute, her first ever
NWSL goal, and it secured the win. Now, as for
all the red cards, if you're thinking they're popping up
a whole lot so far this season, you're not wrong.
According to The Women's Game Sam Muis's Soccer podcast, in
just the first two weekends of the twenty twenty six season,
there have already been six red cards handed out. That's
(03:51):
more than half the number issued during the entire twenty
twenty five season, which saw eleven total.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Now, it may be a little too early.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
To tell if the high tally is due to aggressive
officiating or aggressive gameplay, but something's definitely in the air
more soccer and a new coaching role coming down from FIFA.
Starting later this year, every team in FIFA's women's tournaments
must have at least two female staff on the bench
at every match, and one of those two staffers must
be an assistant coach or the head coach. The decision
(04:21):
was made at the FIFA Council last week and applies
to all women's youth and senior tournaments, whether they feature
clubs or national teams.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
FIFA's Chief Football Officer.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And former US women's national team head coach Jill Ellis said, quote,
there are simply not enough women in coaching today. We
must do more to accelerate change by creating clearer pathways,
expanding opportunities, and increasing the visibility for women on our sidelines.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
That's a really important point and it's a great thing
to get more coaching and management opportunities for women, but
we'd love to see a push for more women's coaches
on the men's side too.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
To the track team, USA.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Is coming home from Poland and the World Athletics Indoor
Championships with US athletes when in metal in seven women's events,
a few highlights to share. On Sunday front of the show,
Nikki Hilts kept things cool, calm and collected in the
fifteen hundred meter final, staying in the back and middle
of the pack throughout the majority of the race, but
then they closed with a blazing final lap, moving from
fifth to third and finishing in an indoor personal best
(05:17):
of three point fifty nine sixty eight. They landed on
the podium for the second time in three years. Great
Britain's Georgia Hunter Bell won that race, with Australia's Jess
Hall claiming silver. Another Front of the show, Anna Hall
also made the podium, taking silver in the pentathlon on
Sunday with four eight hundred and sixty points, just twenty
eight points behind winner Sophie Doctor of the Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Hall closed the five event contest.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
With the championship record two six thirty two in the
eight hundred meter and in the four x four hundred
meter relay, the US women came away with gold. In
the second leg, rosy E Fiong got the team into
first place position that they never let go of, ultimately
winning their second straight indoor four by four hundred meter
relay title. Right after the men's relay team did the same.
Let's talk last weekend in the PWHL. On Sunday, the
(06:03):
league's Takeover Tour paid a visit to the Canada Life
Center in Winnipeg for a Montreal Victoire versus Ottawa Charge matchup.
Charge came out on top two to one after Rebecca
Leslie's league leading third overtime winner of the season. It
was the first time the PWHL had gone to Manitoba's
provincial capital, and they got a great turnout. It was
a sold out crowd of fifteen two hundred and twenty
five fans, and there was a fun moment pregame when
(06:26):
Winnipeg native Jothly and the Rocks teammates celebrated the trip
to her hometown by wearing custom shirts with her name and.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Face on them.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
We've got more hockey Tonight in Boston, the Fleet will
host the Vancouver Goldeneyzed at seven pm Eastern, and then
tomorrow night, Chicago hosts its second Takeover Tour game of
the season, with New York and Seattle face and off
at All State Arena.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Hopefully I'll see some of youse slices there.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Finally, to fencing, Notre Dame won the first NCAA women's
team title in nearly forty years over the weekend, beating
Columbia one O two ninety nine. You remember last week
we told you this was the first time since nineteen
eighty nine that the NCAA sponsored separate national championships for
women's and men's programs. Since nineteen eighty nine, college fencing's
top men and women have dueled for a single combined
(07:09):
NCUBA team title, but that all changed this year. Congrats
to the Fighting Irish for making history all right, Selica's
quick congrats go out to two folks. First, WNBA superstar
Rika Agunbowalle, who posted that she tied the knot with
her Boo la la rene in late February.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Congrats you too.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Also to New York prep hooper Croatia national team member
and Yukon commit Olivia Vukosa, who was named the Gatorade
National Player of the Year last week, her second straight
year winning the award. And the coolest part, she was
surprised by none other than Diana Tarassi waiting in her
high school gym to hander the trophy.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
So cool.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
We got to take a break when we come back
we find out what it was really like for reporters
burning the midnight oil as the WNBACBA negotiations went on
and on and on, and what do they think of
the deal that ended up getting made.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Stick around.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
For the first time in Good Game with Sarah spain History.
I'm joined by four guests. If you count me in,
we can field one genuinely washed hoop squad. First, she
covers college basketball on the WNBA for ESPN.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
She's a Stanford alum.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
She loves a pancake, and she's been spotted loitering around
Fifth Avenue. In thirty seventh, it's Alexa Philippoo joining her.
She covers women's sports for Front Office Sports. She's in
Iowa grad. She loves a good thrift store find, and
she's been known to lurk on the street with a
slice of Dominoes in each hand.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
It's Santy Costable joining them.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
He's an AP basketball writer who's covered the women's game
for nearly twenty years. He's a member of the US
Basketball Writer's Association Hall of Fame Class of twenty twenty five,
and he spends his nights at hotels, but he never
has a room.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
It's Doug Feinberg.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And finally, she's a women's hoops writer and podcast host
for the Nine Sports. She loves a full send on Halloween,
and she gets paid to be a Stage five clinger.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
It's Jackie Powell.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Hi, guys together, they're the Langham Four, so named for
the nights they spent together outside the Langham Hotel in
New York, staked out and waiting for the WNBA and
Players Association to come to terms on a new collective
bargaining agreement. They put sleep, Social life insanity on hold
to bring the people the.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
News they were waiting for. The deal is done. Thanks
for joining.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Us, Thanks for having us.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Excited to talk to y'all.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Alexa, can you explain the origin of the nickname the
Langham Four.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Honestly, I don't want to totally take credit, but I
do believe it was I was the one who like.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Renamed our group chat the Langham Four.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
But really it became that because the beginning and the
end of this whole journey, when we were staking out
these CVA meetings, we were at this very nice hotel
called the Langham Hotel on Fifth Avenue, and it was
really full circle that that's where the CBA got determined,
and it was where we started.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
And now you've got merch. One piece of merch.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
And now we've got merch courtesy of Doug and Doug's friend.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, Doug tell us about the merch.
Speaker 7 (10:05):
I thought, we have something to capitalize on our time together.
Is my friend is really good at making things, says
that for a business, And I said, hey, could you
do something that she goes, let me make a jumbler
for you guys, And sure enough this came to be
so forever memorialized the time we spent together at the Langham.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
We got a water bottle that says the Langham for
custom only for an existence.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
You can't have one because you weren't there. You know.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
The final negotiations leading up to the deal got done
in about eight straight days, one hundred plus hours. Jackie,
At what point did you start your stakeout?
Speaker 8 (10:39):
I think it was early Tuesday evening, so I will
admit I got to the party a little bit later
than my three compadres. But they welcomed me with open arms.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yes, they made the street look so inviting you just
couldn't resist joining them. Doug was this coordinated effort the
three of you at the beginning, or did you all
independently decide to sit street side for the negotiations.
Speaker 7 (11:06):
It was Sarah, I mean, Annie was nice enough to
stake out the Union headquarters. Alex and I were in
the NBA headquarters to trip where we're going, and sure
enough one of us got a tip that hey, this
can meet the Langham Hotel, and then we all hustled
down there as Alexa is doing some spots on ESPN,
and we all got together at the lovely time on
the streets of New York City.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Alexa, what's the HEADSHAKEE for?
Speaker 5 (11:28):
I literally got on the Metro North train that Tuesday,
not knowing where the meeting was. And I've told this story,
but I thought I was going back that day.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
I thought this was like a four hour meeting.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
I told my dog, I'll see you later, and lo
and behold, it took ten days almost.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
For me to get home. So I was not prepared.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, yeah, Well, at least it was New York where
there's no rats and they don't put the garbage on
the street for you each day.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh I'm so sorry. I was thinking of Chicago. Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
We definitely have rats, but we don't put our garbage
on the street because we're a civilized population. Annie, speaking
of Chicago and people who left it for darker and
uglier pastures. When you were out there on day one
of the stakeout, how many days did you actually expect
to be there? Oh?
Speaker 9 (12:09):
My god, I thought we were going to be there,
maybe forty eight hours. Like I thought this would be
a two day thing. Max, I had no idea one
hundred hours later we would still be waiting to get news.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, and so, Alexa, sounds like you said you didn't
see your dog for several days, other than I heard
on another podcast that your boyfriend brought your dog by
to say hi, which is nice.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You got some visiting.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Privileges, But did all of y'all find hotels nearby or
actually sleep on the street or go home and come back?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Like, what was the situation for each of you?
Speaker 7 (12:42):
Doug Well, I was the luckiest, I guess I live
about fifteen minutes from all three spots that we went too,
so perfect. We spent time in the hotel. Alexa was
kind of enough to get through her company, and we
spent some time there, but actually could go home and
sleep in my own bed or once every evening.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Right, okay, Alexis so the Worldwide Leader sprung for a room.
I believe you put a post note and said Langham
for headquarters on that door Media HQ, because you know.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
The Union and the League had their respective HQs and
this was our HQ. But so yeah, I so the
first night was basically.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
An all night or so that didn't really even count.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
But yeah, basically I was in hotels, and I would
switch hotels based off where we were meeting, so I
wasn't in I think I was in the Langham twice
in a row thanks to a very special corporate rate
that we got, But yeah, I was hopping hotels.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So Jackie and Annie, did you kind of go home
in between?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (13:33):
We both actually live in the same neighborhood in Brooklyn,
so we after the first night headed back our way.
And then one night my company ended up springing for
a hotel room at Langham and we didn't get the
corporate discount.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
So I do have to shout them out because.
Speaker 9 (13:53):
That was a huge un Yeah, a huge investment by them.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Oh, just to c clarify too, before Jackie goes, the
reason why we needed a room in the hotel was
because we couldn't stay in the lot because we weren't
guessed and eventually the weather turned and so it was
not actually nice enough to really be outside.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
And so that's where it became.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Very clutch to have the rooms like that perspective companies, Yeah, Jackie.
Speaker 8 (14:19):
So Annie and I ubered home together maybe once or twice,
and each time we went back home to where we
live in Brooklyn, we were always carrying a lot of
stuff because it was like it was like our work stuff.
It was like these chairs, it was extra food that
certain godparents got for us, and so it was just
(14:44):
there was a lot of stuff. I mean, we used
Alexa's multiple hotel rooms as sort of I mean it
was an h Q. It was a space where we
could sort of put all the gear, all the stakeout
gear that we needed.
Speaker 9 (14:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
It was like a survival yes past, Yes, this is
just a fun one for all of you. Just yell.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I if you had any friends, family, or loved ones
reaching out with actual concern about lack of sleep or
hanging out on the street, a great they all had
people who care about them that were worried about their
their sanity and well being on the street. You also
had pizza, You had snacks delivered. There were a lot
(15:27):
of benefactors. So tell me about like some of the
deliveries that you got, Doug, while you were staked out.
Speaker 7 (15:34):
We had a lot of fairy god parents, is how
we'd like to phrase it, that were nice enough to
give us coffee, cookies, donuts, pizza. Although as an aid
in New Yorker, I'll say it, I was insulted at Dominoes.
Will we get That's what I said, Dominoes. You're in
New York. Find something that's good, right, what.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Are we doing?
Speaker 9 (15:51):
I literally I was like, Doug, we should just be
grateful we're getting something. Like Doug was really throwing a
fit about this, and I'm like, we're getting food, Like,
just be grateful.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I mean, to be fair, Dominoes is fine. It'll do
in a pinch.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That being said, you were in New York, and I
feel like you could grab a slice from somewhere better,
almost anywhere nearby. But to whoever delivered the Dominoes, whether
that be Dominoes or a godparent, We're still grateful.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
We're still grateful next time.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
You know, like the CBA that promises better benefits and
higher pay, let's also improve the pizza for our future CBA.
You guys are out there for so many hours together
just shooting the shit. I can only imagine some of
the conversations that you had to keep each other company.
I want to hear one surprising thing that you learned
about someone else in the wee hours of the morning
(16:38):
on the sidewalk, Jackie.
Speaker 8 (16:40):
I learned that Annie is a huge Leonardo DiCaprio fan,
so to know. On Sunday night, it was sort of
like we were watching it was like Selection Sunday and
the Oscars back to back. You know, we see Leonardo
DiCaprio lose to Michael B. Jordan, and Annie just goes
on this rant about, you know, Leonardo DiCaprio deserves more
(17:02):
Oscars than just his one.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good argument, Alexa,
what's something you learned about someone else?
Speaker 5 (17:08):
I really enjoyed getting to see everyone's individual styles and
like how they and how they work and how they
approach the job, because I obviously have worked alongside all
of them for years. But to spend literally like one
hundred plus hours with them over a week plus, you
really get to see how they think about things, how
they operate, and then you know, there's some similarities, there's
(17:29):
some differences, but I think it's a kind of a
beautiful thing that like you can have your own style
in this job and still you know, like be able
to make your mark.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
And so it was really cool to see that over
the course of the week.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, and sometimes you pick up little tips from people
just from being like, oh, that's how you do that,
or that's the appy use for that, Like that's that's nice,
Doug what it's something that you learned about someone else.
Speaker 7 (17:50):
I learned that the year three the best in the
business that I get to work with for eight days
and hang out with. And it sounds sappy and such,
but I'll be honest. I mean I've known all of them,
are worked with all of them.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
But the future is bright. I'm the old old man
in the room, so to.
Speaker 7 (18:04):
Speak, and to know what they've did and to be
with them and to see what they can do. I
have complete faith that the future of Women's basketbel Media
and the President Women's Bastal Media is really bright because
of these three.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Oh, oh, that's so nice.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
That's tough to follow, Annie, that you learned way to
put the pressure on.
Speaker 7 (18:23):
Me dog always trying.
Speaker 9 (18:25):
Oh I'm just I learned everyone's coffee orders or caffeine orders.
And I also learned that Alexa loves strawberry hogandas, which
I too learned that about myself.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
By way of Alexa because I was eating her strawberry
ice cream.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
So that was a real bonding moment, Like we shared
a carton, like I started it and Nanny finished it.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I feel like that was a real bonding moment for us,
real lady in the tramp situation.
Speaker 9 (18:51):
From competitors to shared ice cream eaters.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I love it, Alexa.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
When did you realize that the players and the stakeholders
inside the hotel knew about you guys sitting outside?
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Oh the first night we could see them like looking
down at us, and we waved back at them.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
It was so funny.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
And then the next day when we were sitting outside,
was when Alicia Clark and bri Turner walked by and
bre Turner showed us the photo that she toughly was
like the bird's eye view aerial photo that she eventually
did post on social media and we just were dying.
It was like the funniest thing. I have to know
that they were actually actively they know we're here.
Speaker 6 (19:30):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, Uh, Doug, I heard Annie talking about having like
a little bit of a breakdown on Sunday due to delirium,
impatience wanting the deal to get done. Would you say
that Annie was the one who broke first in the
Langham four or did somebody else have a breakdown previous
to hers?
Speaker 7 (19:46):
Well, in Annie's defense, she wasn't feeling well and she
was sick the next night, so I think it was
the start of that coming on what happens in the
Langham Hotel stays in the Langham Hotel. I would say
that Annie probably used the first to potentially break, but
I'll give her the benefit that she wasn't feeling great
and that's probably why. But I would trust her to
be there and last a long time as far as
(20:06):
stakeouts go, if she's one hundred percent healthy.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Sarah, I broke, I broke hard.
Speaker 8 (20:11):
I mean, it's no shame, it's understandable.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, it is under especially if you're not feeling well
and it's cold and you're like just get it done,
come on, And also like, Annie, I know you the
best of this quartet, and I was really interested thinking
about how you were approaching sort of the scoop of
it all. How did you handle the desire to quote
unquote when the story while also understanding that it was
(20:34):
way better to be going through this with friends than
if you were sitting outside the hotel by yourself right days.
Speaker 9 (20:40):
Yeah, I really appreciate that question because it's I think
it's something that I sometimes feel misunderstood in and that
I am, by nature like very competitive, and I don't
feel like we should hide that, especially as women like
I like to fully embrace it and almost kind of
amp it up more to just exemplify like we can
(21:03):
be competitive with each other and still be friends. And
so when we came into this, obviously that starting point
it was so interesting because to Doug's point, we were
trying to figure out where the meeting was. And I
remember even at that point I called a colleague back
in Chicago and I was like, dude, this is so
hard because we're going to be in this together, but
we're competitors, Like, how do I handle this? And he
(21:25):
was like, listen, this is a CBA negotiation and you
guys are going to go through this whatever happens together.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
He's like, so you don't embrace that, and.
Speaker 9 (21:36):
I did, But I also am not a good liar
in this sense of like I couldn't I couldn't pretend
like I didn't want to win.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
I couldn't pretend like.
Speaker 9 (21:47):
I wasn't in it to try to to the best
of my ability to get the ultimate scoop.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
And again, out of love.
Speaker 9 (21:56):
And respect for these three who I consider friends, I'm like,
I just got to be transparent about that.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
I remember at one point.
Speaker 9 (22:02):
I broke and I was like, you guys, like, what
are we doing at the end of this someone who's
going to get the breaking news? Like do we really
all think we're all going to get it at the
same time? And so I just yeah, it was hard,
and I really appreciate these three for seeing me and
understanding me and not thinking less of me because of
my like competitive style.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, I mean that's the job, Alexa. You know you
work for the Worldwide Leader. I'm still part time at ESPN,
but I was full time there for like thirteen years.
I know how much there is a desire to have
this information that nobody else gets to be the ones
who are owning the space. Knowing that you were all
working for different outlets, how did you sort of handle
the balance of camaraderie versus competition.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
I feel like I think this maybe it's just like
how I tend like obviously we do like have a
job to do and trying to get the news and
all that stuff, But like, by nature, I just tend
to lean very like collaboratively, even though I am competitive,
and so to me, like I just was so thrilled
(23:02):
to be there and like go through that whole experience
with the other three that I like was pretty like
I'm like, no matter what happens, like that is the
experience for me.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Doug.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
If this for the Olympics, you would get the interviews
first and the scoop because you're a wire service, so
I would have to sit for at least an hour
after you got to talk to all the people coming
out before I would get access as a lowly podcast.
So what did you make of trying to be scooping
versus working together?
Speaker 7 (23:30):
So we talked about Sarah, I mean, the way the
wire works, I can't break news on social media people
pay us, like the Worldwide Leader in other places for
us to send them stories with the breaking news. So
we actually had conversations like, hey, you know, if someone
gets it or we all get it together, they can
tweet it. I can't because I have to wait for
actually put a story out. So I kind of knew
(23:51):
I was never going to be the one to quote
break the news that way, but I'm used to it.
I mean, it just gets something out quickly on timely fashion.
That's what matters more to our customer, to our members
then me putting a tweet out saying hey, a deal
is done, because I'm not serving our clients that way
to do it.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Jackie, were you watching people's phones to be like pre
you texting what? Wait?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
What?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Who does message you? What's happening over there?
Speaker 8 (24:12):
I don't think I said that publicly.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Maybe in my head I was thinking, yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
One thing too we did talk about really quick Sarah
is like we were I think that we actually said
during it was like if any of us four like
break the news, like we like respected that because we
were all like we were the ones that.
Speaker 6 (24:31):
Were there, so like yeah, yeah, here.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
We know if it came out from anyone before, like
we got it just you know, as long as it
was one of the three or four of us, Like,
that's what we were most happy about.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
Both the league and union did the best they could
to make sure one of us or all of us
really wants to get the information first.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
That's great.
Speaker 7 (24:46):
She had discussions about it. Hey, we got to take
care of the four of the Langham four to make
sure that they are the ones that get the news first,
which I don't think I've ever heard sides doing before
because there's always so much competitiveness. But they wanted to
make sure and it probably helped that it was three
in the morning when this broke, but they wanted to
make sure the four of us were taking care before
anybody else, which I appreciate it as a reporter of like, hey,
(25:08):
they recognize what the time we put in for this
that they want to make sure that we were the
ones to get the story.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I replied to Alicia Clark's post where she included a
photo of y'all, and I was like, I love that
you included the journals because it was like a massive
marathon for them too, and not always will they be
appreciated for that okay, Doug, quick question for you. You've been
reporting on women's basketball for so long, including multiple other CBAS,
and I wonder how this compares to your previous experience
in terms of interest and everything else.
Speaker 7 (25:34):
I mean, it was night and day, to be honest
that the last CBA in twenty twenty, they had it
done and ratified before they even knew about it. And
I don't want to say no one cared, because people cared,
but there was not the height and interest that there
was for this CBA. The standpoint, there was no one
s taking out the headquarters, no one knew, and it
was actually done. They kept a secret for three weeks,
so I mean, from that standpoint, it was completely different.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Jackie, how does the new CBA that the league in
the union to compare to what you expected? Anything major
that you were like, Oh, this is not what I
thought we would end up with.
Speaker 8 (26:05):
I think for me, the one surprise is the revenue
sharing component of this, in that it's not really clear
right now what the system was. I mean, what I
really want to understand is how did we go from
being so far apart on these very like ideological types
(26:25):
of differences when it comes to revenue share. How did
we go from there to coming together here?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Right? For me, it's pretty obvious.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It's the NBA as usual pretending like they don't have
enough money to pay the players, and the players finally
having enough leverage to be like, screw you, and then
still somehow going from forty percent down to twenty percent,
which to me is still a major loss.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I'm interested in the details of the revenue share.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I know on the NBA side it's technically basketball related income,
which isn't exactly the same as gross revenue. But the
NBA players since a nineteen eighty three landmark CBA have
been getting somewhere around fifty percent of a revenue split
with the league, and somehow, forty years later, we're still
acting like the women don't deserve to share in the
success of their league the same way the men do.
So to me, that was just like the players finally
being like, we call you on your bullshit. There's absolutely
(27:13):
no way we're settling for net revenue again, especially with
the escalators based on things that we can't control, like
last time when COVID just basically wiped them out until
this very last season when they finally.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Got a percentage.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I wanted to ask about that Annie because twenty percent
is better than taking net revenue percentage.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
But I'm still very frustrated by it, and I.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Wonder if there are any details yet to let us
know whether it's just a straight twenty percent of gross
or maybe something more creative.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
Those details have been vague about what exactly that system is,
but what we do know is it's a twenty percent
average over the life of the deal. You know, I
think to your point, it's interesting when you consider how
far the union moved and how little the league moved,
(27:56):
And you could definitely argue where the the union started was,
you know, this really lofty goal and so they needed
to move more. But what I find really interesting about
this model now, whenever we get the complete details, we'll
be able to talk more about this. But what I
(28:17):
find really interesting about that comparison to the NBA's percentage
going back to nineteen eighty three is again the ownership
model of the WNBA. That is the biggest difference between
the NBA and the WNBA, and I think that's going
to be one of the most fascinating stories as this
league continues to grow and develop, is how it's owned
(28:41):
and these three different stakeholders in terms of the NBA,
the WNBA, and the sixteen percent, because that just muddles everything.
And just the last thing I have to say about this,
When you consider a business and the desire to see
that business come to full fruition, the w is hindered
(29:03):
in this way.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Right, And I want to get to that because that's
that was my next point, and I agree with you,
but I think, unfortunately it should not be the players
who are paid less because the ownership structure splits more
across those three entities. That's them, you know, diluting their
equity in pursuit of an improved investment at one point.
That should not be something that the players get a
(29:26):
smaller percentage as a result, because I heard someone say
to me, oh, the ownership structure is different, and that's why.
But to me, forty percent wasn't lofty. It was in fact,
the expectation that they would take seventy percent of net
revenue from the WNBA side that was more insulting that
they needed to move off to.
Speaker 8 (29:41):
So Andy brings up a great point, which is the split.
And I think what we need to remember is that
not the forty two percent that the WNBA owners have.
But it is the forty two percent of the NBA
ownership that I often question because these are owners in
that pocket or in that group that still have something
(30:03):
against the WNBA. And the reason I say this is
because this infamous New York Post article that came out
right around the twenty twenty four WNBA Finals, where it
didn't say him by name, but we all knew that
it was James Dolan complaining about how he was still
losing forty million dollars a year. Because the NBA owns
(30:26):
forty two percent of the WNBA. So what makes this
even harder is you have owners that still own this
league that do not believe in it and that still
consider it to be a burden.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
That's a big part of it for me.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And also the lack of financial transparency prevents the public
and even the players for much of these negotiations from
truly understanding what their league is doing in terms of revenue.
And to your point, whether it's James Dolan or the
league itself publicly trying to claim loss and cry loss
while simultaneously hosting multi hundred million dollar bids for expansion
(30:59):
tea that people are falling all over themselves for, so
tell me which one it is. Is this a terrible
investment in a losing business or is this a ever
growing rocket ship growth that everybody wants in on, you know, Alexa.
To that point, the TV deal has been touted as
this big win for the league.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Two point two.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Billion is a lot of money, but it's less than
three percent of the seventy six billion dollar media deal
that the NBA negotiated. So Adam Silver and Company decided
the W is deserving of just three percent of that deal,
despite w's TV viewership accounting for closer to thirteen percent
of their combined viewership total.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Can the W actually thrive.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
If they remain under the thumb of the NBA, particularly
when many of us are curious about how finances behind
the scenes are shuffled to keep reporting the W as
a loss and send profit toward the NBA.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
I feel like I should probably plead the fifth on
this one as a technicalism employee of the rights holder.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Someone else want to take this, Okay?
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah, I think the answers no.
Speaker 9 (31:53):
Like we've talked to so many, I think all of
us can say that we've talked to so many coaches
and executives over the year who've been in this league
since the nineties or just who are in the know.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
You know, they've.
Speaker 9 (32:05):
Talked about the fact that you know, when you're you're
a business operating to your point under the thumb of another,
can you reach your full potential?
Speaker 4 (32:15):
And the answer is no. And this is a primetime example.
Speaker 9 (32:18):
And again I respect Alexa so much because yes, as
an employee of ESPN totally you.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Got to plead the fifth.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
But there's an aspect to that that doesn't make sense
in terms of how that deal was broken down. And
when you're again considering the business reaching its full potential, well,
why would you negotiate that together? And why would it
equate to only three percent? And again, Adam and the
NBA will I'll argue, well, we did the WNBA a
(32:47):
solid by doing this together.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
That'll be their argument. But is that is that true?
Speaker 9 (32:53):
Like, we don't know because they didn't go to market
separately exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
And it's the same thing we saw for years and
years with the NCAA Women's Tournament, where they hadn't materially
renegotiated it in decades and they kept looping it in
with all the other championships, and that's still the case.
So even when they get a massive better TV deal
that they got recently, you're still not ever letting it
go to market to find out what it would do
for itself without being tied to all the other ones. Yet,
I think I don't know. I wasn't in a of
(33:17):
the rooms. I wouldn't blame ESPN for however it happened.
I'm saying the NBA is the one who decided to
take the deal they made and allocate a certain percentage
to the league. You know, Doug, Speaking of that financial transparency,
do we know anything about the league's commitment as a
result of this new CBA if there is one to
sharing more of their financials publicly and with players and
the player side.
Speaker 7 (33:38):
I mean, I'll be honest, Sarah, I don't think that
it's going to change much. It hasn't in the past.
They did give their books to the union side at
some point during the negotiations. The league did not individual teams,
so I think that's as transparent as it will get.
I don't think any league gives out its financial information
to players to the public, so to speak, so I'd
be surprised if anything changes in the near future for
(34:00):
the WNBA or any league for that matter.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
We got to take a quick break more with the
Langham crew right after this, you know Alexa. During these negotiations,
the league claimed they would lose seven hundred million dollars
a year if they gave up thirty percent of gross revenue,
and then when it was twenty seven and a half percent,
they'd lose like four hundred and sixty million. I tried
(34:25):
to do the math on twenty percent. I don't know
where they were mathing from, so I didn't know the
number to go from. But let's just say that they
still would probably claim a massive loss during negotiations when
being asked to give up twenty percent of gross revenue.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
But now the negotiations are done.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Do you think if you ask the league how confident
they are in their business, whether it's a good investment
for expansion teams and sponsor, that they would be talking
about losses or will we not hear about those major
losses until we're back to negotiations again.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Yeah, it's interesting because that was a huge back and forth.
I remember first reporting that in December and one of
the big sticking points about how those losses were calculated
or if you were on the union side saying that
those were bs was whether or not expansion fees were
factored in. The league did not consider expansion fees as
(35:15):
like actual net revenue, and the union was saying, hey,
that's money that's going and owner's pockets. So I that's
a question that like if we were able to talk
with Kathy right now and talk with the union side,
I think would be really interesting to see like where
they netted out on that is, like what that twenty
percent of rev shared, Like does it actually factor and gross?
(35:36):
Of course, you know I tried to ask, you know,
this was three am, so it wasn't my most articulate answer.
Basically when the deal was done, like what it meant
that you know, the partnership of like this deal with
the league and the players union, and like what it
meant from like a standpoint of the business. And she
said it was a fair win win in her awards,
(35:56):
I don't expect that they would say they expect losses
at this point, but you know, behind the scenes, what
does this deal showed. Is it showing something more along
those lines, Is it showing you know the owners are
still at a good place to invest in the business.
Speaker 6 (36:11):
I think that all remains to be seen, all.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Right, Doug speed run on two items, one of our
slices and a Wolock re up. These elements that I'd
kind of forgotten to dig into, So if you know
anything about them, any major changes to prioritization.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
They actually haven't said anything about that, so no answer.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
And then did they finalize that mandated college combine idea
that they wanted.
Speaker 7 (36:31):
That's another good question. As we said, we had maybe
fifteen minutes with them after they announced.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
It, but the term sheet doesn't seem to show anything
on that.
Speaker 7 (36:38):
Okay, I'm sure they're finalizing it over the next couple
weeks or so when they actually write the CBA. But
I'm sure those two things are important to both sides
to get out there when it's actually official.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
A couple more questions for y'all, Jackie, Do you know
anything about how the reporting might change for this league,
particularly because they were so grateful to you for all
your coverage here?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Are they going to improve media access?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Shoot around every players available full postgame locker room access?
Speaker 8 (37:05):
Sarah, that is a wonderful question that you just asked,
and to be quite honest, we don't know that for sure.
But what I will say is that there have been
some conversations about changing the current rules, and I think
all of us can really speak about how this experience
(37:26):
really allowed for us to make these human connections, and
I think that is something that continues to be lost.
And it's not just the WNBA. I've heard some interesting
stories on the NWSL side when it comes to media
access and just sort of this lack of understanding about
what our job is and how it's really important for
(37:48):
us to actually be able to talk to these players, coaches,
executives as humans and to really build those relationships. You
can't build them unless you're in the room with them.
And I think this goes into an interesting story about
our first night. On Night one, the players sort of
left out a side door of the Langham Hotel and
(38:10):
it was a little frustrating for us because we were
we essentially pulled an all nighter. We were up until
five or maybe five point thirty, almost six, and we
didn't get to talk to them, and there was a
lot of frustration, and we sort of communicated that frustration
in a diplomatic way, of course. I mean I was diplomatic,
(38:34):
that's my ability, and I think that message came across.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I think it's necessary if you're asking for what the
league wants in terms of media coverage and rights deals,
and if your players demanding that you're treated more professionally,
then you have to accept that part of that is
your relationship with the media. And I do think that
the league at this point might be frustrated with some
of the media, myself included, but the Players Association certainly
should feel indebted to the work done by the media
(39:00):
to help tell their story, because the players were the
ones who had the leverage here and were so wrongly
on the side of the previous deals when it comes
to revenue and everything else that if there weren't such
great coverage of this, it might have been like what
Doug talked about before, where people aren't paying as much
attention and they aren't pushing back and they aren't you know,
the court of public opinion was very powerful for the
players on this one, and the PA did a good
(39:21):
job of harnessing that.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
But also I think it was so.
Speaker 9 (39:23):
Obvious someone's got to be the bad guy here in
terms of setting the standard within the media ecosystem, and
no one really wants to be that person that sets
a standard in terms of who gets locker room access.
This whole idea of tiered access, which as I mean, Sarah,
I can I know you know having covered like Bulls
games in.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
The NBA, is that you know it's.
Speaker 9 (39:45):
Not easy to get a Bulls credential. You have to
have hit a certain mark, you have to go through
this whole process to get approved, and the w doesn't
want to do that. And I think that can answer
a lot of questions as to whether locker room accesses
is in the future.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
Is like someone's got to be the bad guy.
Speaker 9 (40:03):
And someone's got to be like, hey, you only get
locker room access under X, Y and Z circumstances, and
it will be snagged so quick if you don't operate
at a professional standard.
Speaker 7 (40:14):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
And I think also like there can then be those
efforts to be made for smaller publications and up and
coming people in specific moments. Instead of just saying nobody
gets it because we don't want to deal with this,
you still have to have that expectation at the highest level.
And I think that the media has caught up in
a way that requires it at this point. Yeah, Okay,
last couple of things, Doug. Future of Kathy Engelbert, what.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Do you see?
Speaker 7 (40:37):
I thought she was a winner in this whole negotiation.
She was one who was actually advocating for the players
to get what they wanted in a lot of different
areas from what I've heard, So I think she came
into it in a bad spot. Obviously, all the talk
of the players not respecting you or not like your
fees comments from last year. I think Kathy came away
as a winner. Does that mean she'll keep her job?
(40:58):
That's up to her and somehow. I'm sure that there'll
be discussions about it. But I thought she came through
it was a really good situation coming out of a
really tough negotiation.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yeah, couldn't have gone backwards really after that.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
And if yous to call your exit interview, Andy, I
think your face had a different answer.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Yeah, I'm less convinced.
Speaker 9 (41:14):
I think that it depends on who you talk to
on where Kathy's kind of future in the WMBA stands.
And I think two things can be true at the
same time in terms of her being the person to
help lead this negotiation and get this deal over the hump,
while also that accomplishment not negating the fact that players
(41:38):
are not really on the same page with her, and
despite a deal getting done, that doesn't really change kind
of the job that she's done up until this point.
And so yeah, I think two things can be true
at this point. I'm less convinced that she's gonna stay
stay in this.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Job, Alexa.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Everyone's going to walk out of here project happiness and confidence,
satisfaction with what they want in the deal, because that's
sort of necessary.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Do you think the.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Relationship is stronger because of these long talks or weakened?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Was more unearthed?
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Does a result of these talks that will cause friction
or was there more coming together because both sides recognize
each other's perspective better.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
Hmmm, that's like a really tough question. I think that
it remains to be seen a little bit. To me,
when the dust settles and the weeks, like, you know,
we're still I can only speak for myself. I'm still
recovering from the negotiations. I'm still I'm sure the players,
the league and all them, they're still kind of getting
their head back above the water and I'm very curious,
(42:37):
like now that it's actually more official and formalized, Like
I want to see how they are, you know, are
they doing a joint press conference Terry and Kathy or
Nekka and Kathy and able to like present this as
a united front and like pick up on like what
the vibes are there? So I think it remains to
be seen and where the dust settles.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, okay, last question for you, Annie, Will this deal
feel current enough in four to five years? Ah?
Speaker 4 (43:04):
I hate to be the hater.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
You know why I asked you, you know, I asked
you instead of.
Speaker 9 (43:09):
The other I know, I know, and you know what
this isn't to say what was accomplished isn't historic and
and both like I don't want to disrespect the work
that went into getting this deal done and how monumental
it is that there is going to be a seven
figure super mac salary. But let's be real and four
(43:30):
to five years that one million dollars one point four
million dollars is going to look like chump change if
this league continues growing in the way that everyone you
know it expects it, and obviously the salary is going
to grow with it. So I shouldn't say it's still
going to be at one point four million dollars dollars.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
In four to five years.
Speaker 9 (43:49):
But I think that you know this CBA is setting
up a doozy of a CBA negotiation in six years after.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
They opt out, assuming they opt out.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
That's a good point.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
We will eventually get more details on exactly how the
revenue from the previous year impacts the salary cap the
next year, whether that revenue is part of what goes
into the revenue share or simply goes into the salaries
and then separately will be revenue shared.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Some of that is still yet to be determined.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
As we said, the details of that revenue share are
still not fully fleshed out. I do want to point
out to your point though, that you know I've talked
about since months ago, that the WNBA and Claudia Golden
work together using a bunch of data to figure out
an estimate of what would be a more fair percentage
in relation to NBA salaries based on attendance all this
(44:34):
other stuff, and she said that WNBA players should be
making about a quarter of NBA players and instead the
current will be about five percent of the average NBA salary.
So yes, the numbers are incredible compared to what they
used to be and also compared to the numbers of viewers,
tickets sold, merch revenue.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
All the other things.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
It still feels like it's lagging compared to the way
that we decided to pay men in response the success
that their leagues have.
Speaker 8 (45:01):
That is so depressing to hear, but I think it's
worth trying to think about why that is and how
in women's sports professional leagues, I'll call it, there's a
lot of trauma in women's pro leagues because they have
gone through this cycle prior to the present day of oh,
this is so cool, this is unique, this is a novelty,
(45:24):
and then once there's an event like the financial crisis
in two thousand and eight, the novelty wears off and
the owners are concerned about their pockets and women's sports
that was the first thing to go. And so I
think what you're talking about is a direct result of
all of that up and down and up and down.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Right, Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, except for
this is almost thirty year league now, and the NBA
at multiple different points throughout its history when it was younger,
when it made less money, when there was less of
a global interest, when there was not streaming, when there
was fewer items of merch, when there was many fewer
revenue streams, still always prioritized paying the players as the
product in a way that has never happened for women.
(46:08):
And the constant belief system that men are paid on
potential and women are paid on past performance with an
eye to that previous.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Trauma is picking bullshit.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
And we have to stop applying different rules to women's
leagues than men's because we will keep funding the XFL
eighty five times over, no matter who gives a flying
book about it, while we point to previous women's leagues
that have failed in the past with zero coverage, zero
media investment, zero treatment like a startup, which is what
a new league is, so that when they fail, we're like, see,
the product was bad. That's never been the problem. So
(46:38):
we have to stop reacting to the current leagues, who
are built completely differently as if they're going to fail
in the way of the previous leagues. And the NBA
and the WNBA are pounting on us viewing this league
in this year the same way that we viewed everything before,
and it is not the case anymore, and that is
why they do end up, in my opinion, with a
deal that is fantastic and great and so much better
than what it was before, and yet will also in
(46:59):
a couple of years something we want to move even
further beyond you.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
You've got a great point.
Speaker 8 (47:03):
You've got a great point.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
I'm usually not very cynical, so I got on the
call just just me and Annie over in the corner,
like more and more not cynicism, realism. Yeah, you guys
are so fantastic. I know you're still sleep deprived. Thank
you so much for coming on and talking to us,
sharing all your insight. We look forward to all the
future reporting as more details come out, and a season
(47:26):
where we can actually talk about players and games and basketball.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
But lang them for thank you for your service. I'm
saluting you.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
Langam four forever.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Hell yeah, Doug make the heart you can do it, Doug, Doug. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Thanks again to Annie, Alexa, Jackie and Doug for taking
the time.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
We have to take another break.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
When we return, we put the spotlight on two women's
basketball pioneers, Backslices. We love that you're listening, but we
want you to get in the game. Every day too,
So here's our good game play of the day. Watch
the new documentary Breaking Glass, The Pat Summit Story, which
(48:09):
chronicles the life and career of the legendary women's basketball
coach who led the Tennessee Lady Bowls to eight NCAA
Championships and thirty two combined SEC titles from nineteen seventy
four to twenty twelve. The doc is co produced by
Rock and Robin Productions, that's friend of the show Robin
Roberts production House. The film drops tomorrow, March twenty fifth
on Hulu, and it'll also air Sunday, March twenty ninth
(48:30):
on ESPN two and Sunday April fifth on ESPN.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
We always love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Sit us up on email, good game at wondermedianetwork dot
com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two
two oh four fifty seventy and.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. Just go do
it now, like do it right now. It's so easy.
Watch a winner on the court and off of it.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Rating eighty one years of greatness and no signs of
slowing down. Review if you've watched any of the tournament games,
featuring the Minnesota Gophers. Know oh the quote unquote Blanket
Lady an older woman who runs through the crowd waving
a maroon and gold blanket with a Minnesota logo on it,
drawing roars from fans. Blanket Lady is eighty one year
old PEPs Newman, who grew up loving hoops and finally
(49:13):
got her chance to play when she discovered a barnstorming
team called the Texas Cowgirls. She ended up playing with
different teams until she was forty four years old, once
scoring one hundred and eight points in a single game.
You can read more about the super hooper turned super
fan in a great story in The Athletic by Eden Lassie.
We'll link to it in the show notes. Newman hasn't
missed a Lady Gopher's home game since two thousand and four, but.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Now they're headed on the road for the Sweet sixteen.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
So here's hope in the newfound attention she's gotten during
the tourney earns her a trip to Sacramento to waive
her team to an even deeper run. Now it's your turn, y'all,
rate and review, Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game,
Annie Alexa Jackie and Doug Good Game Alicia Clark for
shouting out the hard working reporters.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Covering the negotiations youw to the fact that Doug will
I ever feel the.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Rush of breaking news via a social media post, We
hate that for you. Doug Good Game with Sarah Spain
is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzi
(50:23):
and Bianca Hillier. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutter,
Lucy Jones, Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer. Production assistants from
Avery Loftus and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where As of
this recording, we're still tied for the lead and the
Welcome to the March Madness Party bracket, and we expect
we will be in the lead until the final buzzer sounds.
Of course, if we don't win, you'll never know, because
we sure won't.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Be telling you. It's Tuesday, March twenty fourth.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Then on today's show, we're pulling up a few extra
chairs to get the gang back together. The gang being
the Langham Four, the group of journalists who camped out
outside the WNBACBA negotiations to bring us updates, street side picks,
and eventually news of a deal. Front Office Sports Annie Costable,
the AP's Doug Feinberg, ESPN's Alexa Philippoo and the Nines
(00:39):
Jackie Powell, who all joined me to share their stories
from the trenches and their biggest takeaways of the new CBA.
Plus we're seeing red the bench isn't always a bad
place to be and on Guard, the sword fight and
Irish make History.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
It's all coming up right after this welcome back slices.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Here's what you need to know today, Starting with college
hoops were just like that there are only sixteen teams
left in the running for the national title. On Sunday night,
the last game of the night was a thriller as
number three seed TCU squeaked past number six seed Washington
sixty two to fifty nine in ot Washington led twenty
seven to nineteen at the half after holding the horn
(01:25):
Frogs to just six points in the second quarter, their
lowest scoring quarter of the season, but TCU rallied in
the fourth, and standout senior guard Olivia Miles even had
a clean look to win it in regulation, a fade
away three for all the glory, but it was no good.
Miles redeemed herself with flashes of brilliance in overtime and
led the team with a double double in the win,
putting up eighteen points, ten rebounds, and some very clutch
(01:48):
passes Miles magic.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
During March Madness.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Say Less a few days ago, Miles talked about her
decision to transfer from Notre Dame to TCU last summer
and use her fifth year of eligibility despite being a
projected top lottery.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Pick in last year's WNBA draft.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
She said she didn't blame the critics for doubting her
choice quote what I left on the table seems stupid
and seemed like what is she doing that? I knew
deep in my heart that I needed one more year
to be ready. This year has paid off for me
in ways that I can't even describe.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Entering the draft after a potentially deep run with the
Horned Frogs and with the new CBA in place, Miles
is looking real smart. Now to Monday, where the madness
continued with a second day of second round games, highlighted
by an early wild one Number three Louisville beating number
six Alabama sixty nine sixty eight in a tight game
that saw.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Eighteen lead changes.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
We're recording this ahead of the final games of the day,
including all three matchups featuring number one seeded teams, so
we'll link to the full bracket and results in the
show notes. And if you're now living in a reality
where Yukon, Texas and South Carolina are out of the tournament,
I fear the apocalypse grows near.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
And at this point, honestly.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
We'll take it to the NWSL and this and Diego
waves two to one win over the Utah Royals Sunday night,
a game that featured yet another red card. We're actually
considering renaming the NWSL the Nasty Women's Soccer League. Games
are off to a feisty start, that's for sure, and
unlike that rain Thorns match on Friday that saw two
(03:18):
red cards, this time the card actually played a key role.
The score was tied one to one when UTA's tATu
Mulazo was sent off with the card in the eighty
second minute, opening the door for San Diego to get ahead.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
In the final ten minutes.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Rookie Leah Godfree found the back of the net for
the Wave in the eighty seventh minute, her first ever
NWSL goal, and it secured the win. Now, as for
all the red cards, if you're thinking they're popping up
a whole lot so far this season, you're not wrong.
According to The Women's Game Sam Muis's Soccer podcast, in
just the first two weekends of the twenty twenty six season,
there have already been six red cards handed out. That's
(03:51):
more than half the number issued during the entire twenty
twenty five season, which saw eleven total.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Now, it may be a little too early.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
To tell if the high tally is due to aggressive
officiating or aggressive gameplay, but something's definitely in the air
more soccer and a new coaching role coming down from FIFA.
Starting later this year, every team in FIFA's women's tournaments
must have at least two female staff on the bench
at every match, and one of those two staffers must
be an assistant coach or the head coach. The decision
(04:21):
was made at the FIFA Council last week and applies
to all women's youth and senior tournaments, whether they feature
clubs or national teams.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
FIFA's Chief Football Officer.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And former US women's national team head coach Jill Ellis said, quote,
there are simply not enough women in coaching today. We
must do more to accelerate change by creating clearer pathways,
expanding opportunities, and increasing the visibility for women on our sidelines.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
That's a really important point and it's a great thing
to get more coaching and management opportunities for women, but
we'd love to see a push for more women's coaches
on the men's side too.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
To the track team, USA.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Is coming home from Poland and the World Athletics Indoor
Championships with US athletes when in metal in seven women's events,
a few highlights to share. On Sunday front of the show,
Nikki Hilts kept things cool, calm and collected in the
fifteen hundred meter final, staying in the back and middle
of the pack throughout the majority of the race, but
then they closed with a blazing final lap, moving from
fifth to third and finishing in an indoor personal best
(05:17):
of three point fifty nine sixty eight. They landed on
the podium for the second time in three years. Great
Britain's Georgia Hunter Bell won that race, with Australia's Jess
Hall claiming silver. Another Front of the show, Anna Hall
also made the podium, taking silver in the pentathlon on
Sunday with four eight hundred and sixty points, just twenty
eight points behind winner Sophie Doctor of the Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Hall closed the five event contest.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
With the championship record two six thirty two in the
eight hundred meter and in the four x four hundred
meter relay, the US women came away with gold. In
the second leg, rosy E Fiong got the team into
first place position that they never let go of, ultimately
winning their second straight indoor four by four hundred meter
relay title. Right after the men's relay team did the same.
Let's talk last weekend in the PWHL. On Sunday, the
(06:03):
league's Takeover Tour paid a visit to the Canada Life
Center in Winnipeg for a Montreal Victoire versus Ottawa Charge matchup.
Charge came out on top two to one after Rebecca
Leslie's league leading third overtime winner of the season. It
was the first time the PWHL had gone to Manitoba's
provincial capital, and they got a great turnout. It was
a sold out crowd of fifteen two hundred and twenty
five fans, and there was a fun moment pregame when
(06:26):
Winnipeg native Jothly and the Rocks teammates celebrated the trip
to her hometown by wearing custom shirts with her name and.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Face on them.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
We've got more hockey Tonight in Boston, the Fleet will
host the Vancouver Goldeneyzed at seven pm Eastern, and then
tomorrow night, Chicago hosts its second Takeover Tour game of
the season, with New York and Seattle face and off
at All State Arena.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Hopefully I'll see some of youse slices there.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Finally, to fencing, Notre Dame won the first NCAA women's
team title in nearly forty years over the weekend, beating
Columbia one O two ninety nine. You remember last week
we told you this was the first time since nineteen
eighty nine that the NCAA sponsored separate national championships for
women's and men's programs. Since nineteen eighty nine, college fencing's
top men and women have dueled for a single combined
(07:09):
NCUBA team title, but that all changed this year. Congrats
to the Fighting Irish for making history all right, Selica's
quick congrats go out to two folks. First, WNBA superstar
Rika Agunbowalle, who posted that she tied the knot with
her Boo la la rene in late February.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Congrats you too.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Also to New York prep hooper Croatia national team member
and Yukon commit Olivia Vukosa, who was named the Gatorade
National Player of the Year last week, her second straight
year winning the award. And the coolest part, she was
surprised by none other than Diana Tarassi waiting in her
high school gym to hander the trophy.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
So cool.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
We got to take a break when we come back
we find out what it was really like for reporters
burning the midnight oil as the WNBACBA negotiations went on
and on and on, and what do they think of
the deal that ended up getting made.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Stick around.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
For the first time in Good Game with Sarah spain History.
I'm joined by four guests. If you count me in,
we can field one genuinely washed hoop squad. First, she
covers college basketball on the WNBA for ESPN.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
She's a Stanford alum.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
She loves a pancake, and she's been spotted loitering around
Fifth Avenue. In thirty seventh, it's Alexa Philippoo joining her.
She covers women's sports for Front Office Sports. She's in
Iowa grad. She loves a good thrift store find, and
she's been known to lurk on the street with a
slice of Dominoes in each hand.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
It's Santy Costable joining them.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
He's an AP basketball writer who's covered the women's game
for nearly twenty years. He's a member of the US
Basketball Writer's Association Hall of Fame Class of twenty twenty five,
and he spends his nights at hotels, but he never
has a room.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
It's Doug Feinberg.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And finally, she's a women's hoops writer and podcast host
for the Nine Sports. She loves a full send on Halloween,
and she gets paid to be a Stage five clinger.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
It's Jackie Powell.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Hi, guys together, they're the Langham Four, so named for
the nights they spent together outside the Langham Hotel in
New York, staked out and waiting for the WNBA and
Players Association to come to terms on a new collective
bargaining agreement. They put sleep, Social life insanity on hold
to bring the people the.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
News they were waiting for. The deal is done. Thanks
for joining.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Us, Thanks for having us.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Excited to talk to y'all.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Alexa, can you explain the origin of the nickname the
Langham Four.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Honestly, I don't want to totally take credit, but I
do believe it was I was the one who like.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Renamed our group chat the Langham Four.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
But really it became that because the beginning and the
end of this whole journey, when we were staking out
these CVA meetings, we were at this very nice hotel
called the Langham Hotel on Fifth Avenue, and it was
really full circle that that's where the CBA got determined,
and it was where we started.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
And now you've got merch. One piece of merch.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
And now we've got merch courtesy of Doug and Doug's friend.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, Doug tell us about the merch.
Speaker 7 (10:05):
I thought, we have something to capitalize on our time together.
Is my friend is really good at making things, says
that for a business, And I said, hey, could you
do something that she goes, let me make a jumbler
for you guys, And sure enough this came to be
so forever memorialized the time we spent together at the Langham.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
We got a water bottle that says the Langham for
custom only for an existence.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
You can't have one because you weren't there. You know.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
The final negotiations leading up to the deal got done
in about eight straight days, one hundred plus hours. Jackie,
At what point did you start your stakeout?
Speaker 8 (10:39):
I think it was early Tuesday evening, so I will
admit I got to the party a little bit later
than my three compadres. But they welcomed me with open arms.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yes, they made the street look so inviting you just
couldn't resist joining them. Doug was this coordinated effort the
three of you at the beginning, or did you all
independently decide to sit street side for the negotiations.
Speaker 7 (11:06):
It was Sarah, I mean, Annie was nice enough to
stake out the Union headquarters. Alex and I were in
the NBA headquarters to trip where we're going, and sure
enough one of us got a tip that hey, this
can meet the Langham Hotel, and then we all hustled
down there as Alexa is doing some spots on ESPN,
and we all got together at the lovely time on
the streets of New York City.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Alexa, what's the HEADSHAKEE for?
Speaker 5 (11:28):
I literally got on the Metro North train that Tuesday,
not knowing where the meeting was. And I've told this story,
but I thought I was going back that day.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
I thought this was like a four hour meeting.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
I told my dog, I'll see you later, and lo
and behold, it took ten days almost.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
For me to get home. So I was not prepared.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, yeah, Well, at least it was New York where
there's no rats and they don't put the garbage on
the street for you each day.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh I'm so sorry. I was thinking of Chicago. Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
We definitely have rats, but we don't put our garbage
on the street because we're a civilized population. Annie, speaking
of Chicago and people who left it for darker and
uglier pastures. When you were out there on day one
of the stakeout, how many days did you actually expect
to be there? Oh?
Speaker 9 (12:09):
My god, I thought we were going to be there,
maybe forty eight hours. Like I thought this would be
a two day thing. Max, I had no idea one
hundred hours later we would still be waiting to get news.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, and so, Alexa, sounds like you said you didn't
see your dog for several days, other than I heard
on another podcast that your boyfriend brought your dog by
to say hi, which is nice.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You got some visiting.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Privileges, But did all of y'all find hotels nearby or
actually sleep on the street or go home and come back?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Like, what was the situation for each of you?
Speaker 7 (12:42):
Doug Well, I was the luckiest, I guess I live
about fifteen minutes from all three spots that we went too,
so perfect. We spent time in the hotel. Alexa was
kind of enough to get through her company, and we
spent some time there, but actually could go home and
sleep in my own bed or once every evening.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Right, okay, Alexis so the Worldwide Leader sprung for a room.
I believe you put a post note and said Langham
for headquarters on that door Media HQ, because you know.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
The Union and the League had their respective HQs and
this was our HQ. But so yeah, I so the
first night was basically.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
An all night or so that didn't really even count.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
But yeah, basically I was in hotels, and I would
switch hotels based off where we were meeting, so I
wasn't in I think I was in the Langham twice
in a row thanks to a very special corporate rate
that we got, But yeah, I was hopping hotels.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So Jackie and Annie, did you kind of go home
in between?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (13:33):
We both actually live in the same neighborhood in Brooklyn,
so we after the first night headed back our way.
And then one night my company ended up springing for
a hotel room at Langham and we didn't get the
corporate discount.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
So I do have to shout them out because.
Speaker 9 (13:53):
That was a huge un Yeah, a huge investment by them.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Oh, just to c clarify too, before Jackie goes, the
reason why we needed a room in the hotel was
because we couldn't stay in the lot because we weren't
guessed and eventually the weather turned and so it was
not actually nice enough to really be outside.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
And so that's where it became.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Very clutch to have the rooms like that perspective companies, Yeah, Jackie.
Speaker 8 (14:19):
So Annie and I ubered home together maybe once or twice,
and each time we went back home to where we
live in Brooklyn, we were always carrying a lot of
stuff because it was like it was like our work stuff.
It was like these chairs, it was extra food that
certain godparents got for us, and so it was just
(14:44):
there was a lot of stuff. I mean, we used
Alexa's multiple hotel rooms as sort of I mean it
was an h Q. It was a space where we
could sort of put all the gear, all the stakeout
gear that we needed.
Speaker 9 (14:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
It was like a survival yes past, Yes, this is
just a fun one for all of you. Just yell.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I if you had any friends, family, or loved ones
reaching out with actual concern about lack of sleep or
hanging out on the street, a great they all had
people who care about them that were worried about their
their sanity and well being on the street. You also
had pizza, You had snacks delivered. There were a lot
(15:27):
of benefactors. So tell me about like some of the
deliveries that you got, Doug, while you were staked out.
Speaker 7 (15:34):
We had a lot of fairy god parents, is how
we'd like to phrase it, that were nice enough to
give us coffee, cookies, donuts, pizza. Although as an aid
in New Yorker, I'll say it, I was insulted at Dominoes.
Will we get That's what I said, Dominoes. You're in
New York. Find something that's good, right, what.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Are we doing?
Speaker 9 (15:51):
I literally I was like, Doug, we should just be
grateful we're getting something. Like Doug was really throwing a
fit about this, and I'm like, we're getting food, Like,
just be grateful.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I mean, to be fair, Dominoes is fine. It'll do
in a pinch.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That being said, you were in New York, and I
feel like you could grab a slice from somewhere better,
almost anywhere nearby. But to whoever delivered the Dominoes, whether
that be Dominoes or a godparent, We're still grateful.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
We're still grateful next time.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
You know, like the CBA that promises better benefits and
higher pay, let's also improve the pizza for our future CBA.
You guys are out there for so many hours together
just shooting the shit. I can only imagine some of
the conversations that you had to keep each other company.
I want to hear one surprising thing that you learned
about someone else in the wee hours of the morning
(16:38):
on the sidewalk, Jackie.
Speaker 8 (16:40):
I learned that Annie is a huge Leonardo DiCaprio fan,
so to know. On Sunday night, it was sort of
like we were watching it was like Selection Sunday and
the Oscars back to back. You know, we see Leonardo
DiCaprio lose to Michael B. Jordan, and Annie just goes
on this rant about, you know, Leonardo DiCaprio deserves more
(17:02):
Oscars than just his one.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good argument, Alexa,
what's something you learned about someone else?
Speaker 5 (17:08):
I really enjoyed getting to see everyone's individual styles and
like how they and how they work and how they
approach the job, because I obviously have worked alongside all
of them for years. But to spend literally like one
hundred plus hours with them over a week plus, you
really get to see how they think about things, how
they operate, and then you know, there's some similarities, there's
(17:29):
some differences, but I think it's a kind of a
beautiful thing that like you can have your own style
in this job and still you know, like be able
to make your mark.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
And so it was really cool to see that over
the course of the week.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, and sometimes you pick up little tips from people
just from being like, oh, that's how you do that,
or that's the appy use for that, Like that's that's nice,
Doug what it's something that you learned about someone else.
Speaker 7 (17:50):
I learned that the year three the best in the
business that I get to work with for eight days
and hang out with. And it sounds sappy and such,
but I'll be honest. I mean I've known all of them,
are worked with all of them.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
But the future is bright. I'm the old old man
in the room, so to.
Speaker 7 (18:04):
Speak, and to know what they've did and to be
with them and to see what they can do. I
have complete faith that the future of Women's basketbel Media
and the President Women's Bastal Media is really bright because
of these three.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Oh, oh, that's so nice.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
That's tough to follow, Annie, that you learned way to
put the pressure on.
Speaker 7 (18:23):
Me dog always trying.
Speaker 9 (18:25):
Oh I'm just I learned everyone's coffee orders or caffeine orders.
And I also learned that Alexa loves strawberry hogandas, which
I too learned that about myself.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
By way of Alexa because I was eating her strawberry
ice cream.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
So that was a real bonding moment, Like we shared
a carton, like I started it and Nanny finished it.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I feel like that was a real bonding moment for us,
real lady in the tramp situation.
Speaker 9 (18:51):
From competitors to shared ice cream eaters.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I love it, Alexa.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
When did you realize that the players and the stakeholders
inside the hotel knew about you guys sitting outside?
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Oh the first night we could see them like looking
down at us, and we waved back at them.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
It was so funny.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
And then the next day when we were sitting outside,
was when Alicia Clark and bri Turner walked by and
bre Turner showed us the photo that she toughly was
like the bird's eye view aerial photo that she eventually
did post on social media and we just were dying.
It was like the funniest thing. I have to know
that they were actually actively they know we're here.
Speaker 6 (19:30):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, Uh, Doug, I heard Annie talking about having like
a little bit of a breakdown on Sunday due to delirium,
impatience wanting the deal to get done. Would you say
that Annie was the one who broke first in the
Langham four or did somebody else have a breakdown previous
to hers?
Speaker 7 (19:46):
Well, in Annie's defense, she wasn't feeling well and she
was sick the next night, so I think it was
the start of that coming on what happens in the
Langham Hotel stays in the Langham Hotel. I would say
that Annie probably used the first to potentially break, but
I'll give her the benefit that she wasn't feeling great
and that's probably why. But I would trust her to
be there and last a long time as far as
(20:06):
stakeouts go, if she's one hundred percent healthy.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Sarah, I broke, I broke hard.
Speaker 8 (20:11):
I mean, it's no shame, it's understandable.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, it is under especially if you're not feeling well
and it's cold and you're like just get it done,
come on, And also like, Annie, I know you the
best of this quartet, and I was really interested thinking
about how you were approaching sort of the scoop of
it all. How did you handle the desire to quote
unquote when the story while also understanding that it was
(20:34):
way better to be going through this with friends than
if you were sitting outside the hotel by yourself right days.
Speaker 9 (20:40):
Yeah, I really appreciate that question because it's I think
it's something that I sometimes feel misunderstood in and that
I am, by nature like very competitive, and I don't
feel like we should hide that, especially as women like
I like to fully embrace it and almost kind of
amp it up more to just exemplify like we can
(21:03):
be competitive with each other and still be friends. And
so when we came into this, obviously that starting point
it was so interesting because to Doug's point, we were
trying to figure out where the meeting was. And I
remember even at that point I called a colleague back
in Chicago and I was like, dude, this is so
hard because we're going to be in this together, but
we're competitors, Like, how do I handle this? And he
(21:25):
was like, listen, this is a CBA negotiation and you
guys are going to go through this whatever happens together.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
He's like, so you don't embrace that, and.
Speaker 9 (21:36):
I did, But I also am not a good liar
in this sense of like I couldn't I couldn't pretend
like I didn't want to win.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
I couldn't pretend like.
Speaker 9 (21:47):
I wasn't in it to try to to the best
of my ability to get the ultimate scoop.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
And again, out of love.
Speaker 9 (21:56):
And respect for these three who I consider friends, I'm like,
I just got to be transparent about that.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
I remember at one point.
Speaker 9 (22:02):
I broke and I was like, you guys, like, what
are we doing at the end of this someone who's
going to get the breaking news? Like do we really
all think we're all going to get it at the
same time? And so I just yeah, it was hard,
and I really appreciate these three for seeing me and
understanding me and not thinking less of me because of
my like competitive style.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, I mean that's the job, Alexa. You know you
work for the Worldwide Leader. I'm still part time at ESPN,
but I was full time there for like thirteen years.
I know how much there is a desire to have
this information that nobody else gets to be the ones
who are owning the space. Knowing that you were all
working for different outlets, how did you sort of handle
the balance of camaraderie versus competition.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
I feel like I think this maybe it's just like
how I tend like obviously we do like have a
job to do and trying to get the news and
all that stuff, But like, by nature, I just tend
to lean very like collaboratively, even though I am competitive,
and so to me, like I just was so thrilled
(23:02):
to be there and like go through that whole experience
with the other three that I like was pretty like
I'm like, no matter what happens, like that is the
experience for me.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Doug.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
If this for the Olympics, you would get the interviews
first and the scoop because you're a wire service, so
I would have to sit for at least an hour
after you got to talk to all the people coming
out before I would get access as a lowly podcast.
So what did you make of trying to be scooping
versus working together?
Speaker 7 (23:30):
So we talked about Sarah, I mean, the way the
wire works, I can't break news on social media people
pay us, like the Worldwide Leader in other places for
us to send them stories with the breaking news. So
we actually had conversations like, hey, you know, if someone
gets it or we all get it together, they can
tweet it. I can't because I have to wait for
actually put a story out. So I kind of knew
(23:51):
I was never going to be the one to quote
break the news that way, but I'm used to it.
I mean, it just gets something out quickly on timely fashion.
That's what matters more to our customer, to our members
then me putting a tweet out saying hey, a deal
is done, because I'm not serving our clients that way
to do it.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Jackie, were you watching people's phones to be like pre
you texting what? Wait?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
What?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Who does message you? What's happening over there?
Speaker 8 (24:12):
I don't think I said that publicly.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Maybe in my head I was thinking, yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
One thing too we did talk about really quick Sarah
is like we were I think that we actually said
during it was like if any of us four like
break the news, like we like respected that because we
were all like we were the ones that.
Speaker 6 (24:31):
Were there, so like yeah, yeah, here.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
We know if it came out from anyone before, like
we got it just you know, as long as it
was one of the three or four of us, Like,
that's what we were most happy about.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
Both the league and union did the best they could
to make sure one of us or all of us
really wants to get the information first.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
That's great.
Speaker 7 (24:46):
She had discussions about it. Hey, we got to take
care of the four of the Langham four to make
sure that they are the ones that get the news first,
which I don't think I've ever heard sides doing before
because there's always so much competitiveness. But they wanted to
make sure and it probably helped that it was three
in the morning when this broke, but they wanted to
make sure the four of us were taking care before
anybody else, which I appreciate it as a reporter of like, hey,
(25:08):
they recognize what the time we put in for this
that they want to make sure that we were the
ones to get the story.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I replied to Alicia Clark's post where she included a
photo of y'all, and I was like, I love that
you included the journals because it was like a massive
marathon for them too, and not always will they be
appreciated for that okay, Doug, quick question for you. You've been
reporting on women's basketball for so long, including multiple other CBAS,
and I wonder how this compares to your previous experience
in terms of interest and everything else.
Speaker 7 (25:34):
I mean, it was night and day, to be honest
that the last CBA in twenty twenty, they had it
done and ratified before they even knew about it. And
I don't want to say no one cared, because people cared,
but there was not the height and interest that there
was for this CBA. The standpoint, there was no one
s taking out the headquarters, no one knew, and it
was actually done. They kept a secret for three weeks,
so I mean, from that standpoint, it was completely different.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Jackie, how does the new CBA that the league in
the union to compare to what you expected? Anything major
that you were like, Oh, this is not what I
thought we would end up with.
Speaker 8 (26:05):
I think for me, the one surprise is the revenue
sharing component of this, in that it's not really clear
right now what the system was. I mean, what I
really want to understand is how did we go from
being so far apart on these very like ideological types
(26:25):
of differences when it comes to revenue share. How did
we go from there to coming together here?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Right? For me, it's pretty obvious.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It's the NBA as usual pretending like they don't have
enough money to pay the players, and the players finally
having enough leverage to be like, screw you, and then
still somehow going from forty percent down to twenty percent,
which to me is still a major loss.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I'm interested in the details of the revenue share.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I know on the NBA side it's technically basketball related income,
which isn't exactly the same as gross revenue. But the
NBA players since a nineteen eighty three landmark CBA have
been getting somewhere around fifty percent of a revenue split
with the league, and somehow, forty years later, we're still
acting like the women don't deserve to share in the
success of their league the same way the men do.
So to me, that was just like the players finally
being like, we call you on your bullshit. There's absolutely
(27:13):
no way we're settling for net revenue again, especially with
the escalators based on things that we can't control, like
last time when COVID just basically wiped them out until
this very last season when they finally.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Got a percentage.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I wanted to ask about that Annie because twenty percent
is better than taking net revenue percentage.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
But I'm still very frustrated by it, and I.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Wonder if there are any details yet to let us
know whether it's just a straight twenty percent of gross
or maybe something more creative.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
Those details have been vague about what exactly that system is,
but what we do know is it's a twenty percent
average over the life of the deal. You know, I
think to your point, it's interesting when you consider how
far the union moved and how little the league moved,
(27:56):
And you could definitely argue where the the union started was,
you know, this really lofty goal and so they needed
to move more. But what I find really interesting about
this model now, whenever we get the complete details, we'll
be able to talk more about this. But what I
(28:17):
find really interesting about that comparison to the NBA's percentage
going back to nineteen eighty three is again the ownership
model of the WNBA. That is the biggest difference between
the NBA and the WNBA, and I think that's going
to be one of the most fascinating stories as this
league continues to grow and develop, is how it's owned
(28:41):
and these three different stakeholders in terms of the NBA,
the WNBA, and the sixteen percent, because that just muddles everything.
And just the last thing I have to say about this,
When you consider a business and the desire to see
that business come to full fruition, the w is hindered
(29:03):
in this way.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Right, And I want to get to that because that's
that was my next point, and I agree with you,
but I think, unfortunately it should not be the players
who are paid less because the ownership structure splits more
across those three entities. That's them, you know, diluting their
equity in pursuit of an improved investment at one point.
That should not be something that the players get a
(29:26):
smaller percentage as a result, because I heard someone say
to me, oh, the ownership structure is different, and that's why.
But to me, forty percent wasn't lofty. It was in fact,
the expectation that they would take seventy percent of net
revenue from the WNBA side that was more insulting that
they needed to move off to.
Speaker 8 (29:41):
So Andy brings up a great point, which is the split.
And I think what we need to remember is that
not the forty two percent that the WNBA owners have.
But it is the forty two percent of the NBA
ownership that I often question because these are owners in
that pocket or in that group that still have something
(30:03):
against the WNBA. And the reason I say this is
because this infamous New York Post article that came out
right around the twenty twenty four WNBA Finals, where it
didn't say him by name, but we all knew that
it was James Dolan complaining about how he was still
losing forty million dollars a year. Because the NBA owns
(30:26):
forty two percent of the WNBA. So what makes this
even harder is you have owners that still own this
league that do not believe in it and that still
consider it to be a burden.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
That's a big part of it for me.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And also the lack of financial transparency prevents the public
and even the players for much of these negotiations from
truly understanding what their league is doing in terms of revenue.
And to your point, whether it's James Dolan or the
league itself publicly trying to claim loss and cry loss
while simultaneously hosting multi hundred million dollar bids for expansion
(30:59):
tea that people are falling all over themselves for, so
tell me which one it is. Is this a terrible
investment in a losing business or is this a ever
growing rocket ship growth that everybody wants in on, you know, Alexa.
To that point, the TV deal has been touted as
this big win for the league.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Two point two.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Billion is a lot of money, but it's less than
three percent of the seventy six billion dollar media deal
that the NBA negotiated. So Adam Silver and Company decided
the W is deserving of just three percent of that deal,
despite w's TV viewership accounting for closer to thirteen percent
of their combined viewership total.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Can the W actually thrive.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
If they remain under the thumb of the NBA, particularly
when many of us are curious about how finances behind
the scenes are shuffled to keep reporting the W as
a loss and send profit toward the NBA.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
I feel like I should probably plead the fifth on
this one as a technicalism employee of the rights holder.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Someone else want to take this, Okay?
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah, I think the answers no.
Speaker 9 (31:53):
Like we've talked to so many, I think all of
us can say that we've talked to so many coaches
and executives over the year who've been in this league
since the nineties or just who are in the know.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
You know, they've.
Speaker 9 (32:05):
Talked about the fact that you know, when you're you're
a business operating to your point under the thumb of another,
can you reach your full potential?
Speaker 4 (32:15):
And the answer is no. And this is a primetime example.
Speaker 9 (32:18):
And again I respect Alexa so much because yes, as
an employee of ESPN totally you.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Got to plead the fifth.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
But there's an aspect to that that doesn't make sense
in terms of how that deal was broken down. And
when you're again considering the business reaching its full potential, well,
why would you negotiate that together? And why would it
equate to only three percent? And again, Adam and the
NBA will I'll argue, well, we did the WNBA a
(32:47):
solid by doing this together.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
That'll be their argument. But is that is that true?
Speaker 9 (32:53):
Like, we don't know because they didn't go to market
separately exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
And it's the same thing we saw for years and
years with the NCAA Women's Tournament, where they hadn't materially
renegotiated it in decades and they kept looping it in
with all the other championships, and that's still the case.
So even when they get a massive better TV deal
that they got recently, you're still not ever letting it
go to market to find out what it would do
for itself without being tied to all the other ones. Yet,
I think I don't know. I wasn't in a of
(33:17):
the rooms. I wouldn't blame ESPN for however it happened.
I'm saying the NBA is the one who decided to
take the deal they made and allocate a certain percentage
to the league. You know, Doug, Speaking of that financial transparency,
do we know anything about the league's commitment as a
result of this new CBA if there is one to
sharing more of their financials publicly and with players and
the player side.
Speaker 7 (33:38):
I mean, I'll be honest, Sarah, I don't think that
it's going to change much. It hasn't in the past.
They did give their books to the union side at
some point during the negotiations. The league did not individual teams,
so I think that's as transparent as it will get.
I don't think any league gives out its financial information
to players to the public, so to speak, so I'd
be surprised if anything changes in the near future for
(34:00):
the WNBA or any league for that matter.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
We got to take a quick break more with the
Langham crew right after this, you know Alexa. During these negotiations,
the league claimed they would lose seven hundred million dollars
a year if they gave up thirty percent of gross revenue,
and then when it was twenty seven and a half percent,
they'd lose like four hundred and sixty million. I tried
(34:25):
to do the math on twenty percent. I don't know
where they were mathing from, so I didn't know the
number to go from. But let's just say that they
still would probably claim a massive loss during negotiations when
being asked to give up twenty percent of gross revenue.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
But now the negotiations are done.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Do you think if you ask the league how confident
they are in their business, whether it's a good investment
for expansion teams and sponsor, that they would be talking
about losses or will we not hear about those major
losses until we're back to negotiations again.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Yeah, it's interesting because that was a huge back and forth.
I remember first reporting that in December and one of
the big sticking points about how those losses were calculated
or if you were on the union side saying that
those were bs was whether or not expansion fees were
factored in. The league did not consider expansion fees as
(35:15):
like actual net revenue, and the union was saying, hey,
that's money that's going and owner's pockets. So I that's
a question that like if we were able to talk
with Kathy right now and talk with the union side,
I think would be really interesting to see like where
they netted out on that is, like what that twenty
percent of rev shared, Like does it actually factor and gross?
(35:36):
Of course, you know I tried to ask, you know,
this was three am, so it wasn't my most articulate answer.
Basically when the deal was done, like what it meant
that you know, the partnership of like this deal with
the league and the players union, and like what it
meant from like a standpoint of the business. And she
said it was a fair win win in her awards,
(35:56):
I don't expect that they would say they expect losses
at this point, but you know, behind the scenes, what
does this deal showed. Is it showing something more along
those lines, Is it showing you know the owners are
still at a good place to invest in the business.
Speaker 6 (36:11):
I think that all remains to be seen, all.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Right, Doug speed run on two items, one of our
slices and a Wolock re up. These elements that I'd
kind of forgotten to dig into, So if you know
anything about them, any major changes to prioritization.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
They actually haven't said anything about that, so no answer.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
And then did they finalize that mandated college combine idea
that they wanted.
Speaker 7 (36:31):
That's another good question. As we said, we had maybe
fifteen minutes with them after they announced.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
It, but the term sheet doesn't seem to show anything
on that.
Speaker 7 (36:38):
Okay, I'm sure they're finalizing it over the next couple
weeks or so when they actually write the CBA. But
I'm sure those two things are important to both sides
to get out there when it's actually official.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
A couple more questions for y'all, Jackie, Do you know
anything about how the reporting might change for this league,
particularly because they were so grateful to you for all
your coverage here?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Are they going to improve media access?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Shoot around every players available full postgame locker room access?
Speaker 8 (37:05):
Sarah, that is a wonderful question that you just asked,
and to be quite honest, we don't know that for sure.
But what I will say is that there have been
some conversations about changing the current rules, and I think
all of us can really speak about how this experience
(37:26):
really allowed for us to make these human connections, and
I think that is something that continues to be lost.
And it's not just the WNBA. I've heard some interesting
stories on the NWSL side when it comes to media
access and just sort of this lack of understanding about
what our job is and how it's really important for
(37:48):
us to actually be able to talk to these players, coaches,
executives as humans and to really build those relationships. You
can't build them unless you're in the room with them.
And I think this goes into an interesting story about
our first night. On Night one, the players sort of
left out a side door of the Langham Hotel and
(38:10):
it was a little frustrating for us because we were
we essentially pulled an all nighter. We were up until
five or maybe five point thirty, almost six, and we
didn't get to talk to them, and there was a
lot of frustration, and we sort of communicated that frustration
in a diplomatic way, of course. I mean I was diplomatic,
(38:34):
that's my ability, and I think that message came across.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I think it's necessary if you're asking for what the
league wants in terms of media coverage and rights deals,
and if your players demanding that you're treated more professionally,
then you have to accept that part of that is
your relationship with the media. And I do think that
the league at this point might be frustrated with some
of the media, myself included, but the Players Association certainly
should feel indebted to the work done by the media
(39:00):
to help tell their story, because the players were the
ones who had the leverage here and were so wrongly
on the side of the previous deals when it comes
to revenue and everything else that if there weren't such
great coverage of this, it might have been like what
Doug talked about before, where people aren't paying as much
attention and they aren't pushing back and they aren't you know,
the court of public opinion was very powerful for the
players on this one, and the PA did a good
(39:21):
job of harnessing that.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
But also I think it was so.
Speaker 9 (39:23):
Obvious someone's got to be the bad guy here in
terms of setting the standard within the media ecosystem, and
no one really wants to be that person that sets
a standard in terms of who gets locker room access.
This whole idea of tiered access, which as I mean, Sarah,
I can I know you know having covered like Bulls
games in.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
The NBA, is that you know it's.
Speaker 9 (39:45):
Not easy to get a Bulls credential. You have to
have hit a certain mark, you have to go through
this whole process to get approved, and the w doesn't
want to do that. And I think that can answer
a lot of questions as to whether locker room accesses
is in the future.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
Is like someone's got to be the bad guy.
Speaker 9 (40:03):
And someone's got to be like, hey, you only get
locker room access under X, Y and Z circumstances, and
it will be snagged so quick if you don't operate
at a professional standard.
Speaker 7 (40:14):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
And I think also like there can then be those
efforts to be made for smaller publications and up and
coming people in specific moments. Instead of just saying nobody
gets it because we don't want to deal with this,
you still have to have that expectation at the highest level.
And I think that the media has caught up in
a way that requires it at this point. Yeah, Okay,
last couple of things, Doug. Future of Kathy Engelbert, what.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Do you see?
Speaker 7 (40:37):
I thought she was a winner in this whole negotiation.
She was one who was actually advocating for the players
to get what they wanted in a lot of different
areas from what I've heard, So I think she came
into it in a bad spot. Obviously, all the talk
of the players not respecting you or not like your
fees comments from last year. I think Kathy came away
as a winner. Does that mean she'll keep her job?
(40:58):
That's up to her and somehow. I'm sure that there'll
be discussions about it. But I thought she came through
it was a really good situation coming out of a
really tough negotiation.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yeah, couldn't have gone backwards really after that.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
And if yous to call your exit interview, Andy, I
think your face had a different answer.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Yeah, I'm less convinced.
Speaker 9 (41:14):
I think that it depends on who you talk to
on where Kathy's kind of future in the WMBA stands.
And I think two things can be true at the
same time in terms of her being the person to
help lead this negotiation and get this deal over the hump,
while also that accomplishment not negating the fact that players
(41:38):
are not really on the same page with her, and
despite a deal getting done, that doesn't really change kind
of the job that she's done up until this point.
And so yeah, I think two things can be true
at this point. I'm less convinced that she's gonna stay
stay in this.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Job, Alexa.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Everyone's going to walk out of here project happiness and confidence,
satisfaction with what they want in the deal, because that's
sort of necessary.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Do you think the.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Relationship is stronger because of these long talks or weakened?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Was more unearthed?
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Does a result of these talks that will cause friction
or was there more coming together because both sides recognize
each other's perspective better.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
Hmmm, that's like a really tough question. I think that
it remains to be seen a little bit. To me,
when the dust settles and the weeks, like, you know,
we're still I can only speak for myself. I'm still
recovering from the negotiations. I'm still I'm sure the players,
the league and all them, they're still kind of getting
their head back above the water and I'm very curious,
(42:37):
like now that it's actually more official and formalized, Like
I want to see how they are, you know, are
they doing a joint press conference Terry and Kathy or
Nekka and Kathy and able to like present this as
a united front and like pick up on like what
the vibes are there? So I think it remains to
be seen and where the dust settles.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, okay, last question for you, Annie, Will this deal
feel current enough in four to five years? Ah?
Speaker 4 (43:04):
I hate to be the hater.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
You know why I asked you, you know, I asked
you instead of.
Speaker 9 (43:09):
The other I know, I know, and you know what
this isn't to say what was accomplished isn't historic and
and both like I don't want to disrespect the work
that went into getting this deal done and how monumental
it is that there is going to be a seven
figure super mac salary. But let's be real and four
(43:30):
to five years that one million dollars one point four
million dollars is going to look like chump change if
this league continues growing in the way that everyone you
know it expects it, and obviously the salary is going
to grow with it. So I shouldn't say it's still
going to be at one point four million dollars dollars.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
In four to five years.
Speaker 9 (43:49):
But I think that you know this CBA is setting
up a doozy of a CBA negotiation in six years after.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
They opt out, assuming they opt out.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
That's a good point.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
We will eventually get more details on exactly how the
revenue from the previous year impacts the salary cap the
next year, whether that revenue is part of what goes
into the revenue share or simply goes into the salaries
and then separately will be revenue shared.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Some of that is still yet to be determined.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
As we said, the details of that revenue share are
still not fully fleshed out. I do want to point
out to your point though, that you know I've talked
about since months ago, that the WNBA and Claudia Golden
work together using a bunch of data to figure out
an estimate of what would be a more fair percentage
in relation to NBA salaries based on attendance all this
(44:34):
other stuff, and she said that WNBA players should be
making about a quarter of NBA players and instead the
current will be about five percent of the average NBA salary.
So yes, the numbers are incredible compared to what they
used to be and also compared to the numbers of viewers,
tickets sold, merch revenue.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
All the other things.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
It still feels like it's lagging compared to the way
that we decided to pay men in response the success
that their leagues have.
Speaker 8 (45:01):
That is so depressing to hear, but I think it's
worth trying to think about why that is and how
in women's sports professional leagues, I'll call it, there's a
lot of trauma in women's pro leagues because they have
gone through this cycle prior to the present day of oh,
this is so cool, this is unique, this is a novelty,
(45:24):
and then once there's an event like the financial crisis
in two thousand and eight, the novelty wears off and
the owners are concerned about their pockets and women's sports
that was the first thing to go. And so I
think what you're talking about is a direct result of
all of that up and down and up and down.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Right, Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, except for
this is almost thirty year league now, and the NBA
at multiple different points throughout its history when it was younger,
when it made less money, when there was less of
a global interest, when there was not streaming, when there
was fewer items of merch, when there was many fewer
revenue streams, still always prioritized paying the players as the
product in a way that has never happened for women.
(46:08):
And the constant belief system that men are paid on
potential and women are paid on past performance with an
eye to that previous.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Trauma is picking bullshit.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
And we have to stop applying different rules to women's
leagues than men's because we will keep funding the XFL
eighty five times over, no matter who gives a flying
book about it, while we point to previous women's leagues
that have failed in the past with zero coverage, zero
media investment, zero treatment like a startup, which is what
a new league is, so that when they fail, we're like, see,
the product was bad. That's never been the problem. So
(46:38):
we have to stop reacting to the current leagues, who
are built completely differently as if they're going to fail
in the way of the previous leagues. And the NBA
and the WNBA are pounting on us viewing this league
in this year the same way that we viewed everything before,
and it is not the case anymore, and that is
why they do end up, in my opinion, with a
deal that is fantastic and great and so much better
than what it was before, and yet will also in
(46:59):
a couple of years something we want to move even
further beyond you.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
You've got a great point.
Speaker 8 (47:03):
You've got a great point.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
I'm usually not very cynical, so I got on the
call just just me and Annie over in the corner,
like more and more not cynicism, realism. Yeah, you guys
are so fantastic. I know you're still sleep deprived. Thank
you so much for coming on and talking to us,
sharing all your insight. We look forward to all the
future reporting as more details come out, and a season
(47:26):
where we can actually talk about players and games and basketball.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
But lang them for thank you for your service. I'm
saluting you.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
Langam four forever.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Hell yeah, Doug make the heart you can do it, Doug, Doug. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Thanks again to Annie, Alexa, Jackie and Doug for taking
the time.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
We have to take another break.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
When we return, we put the spotlight on two women's
basketball pioneers, Backslices. We love that you're listening, but we
want you to get in the game. Every day too,
So here's our good game play of the day. Watch
the new documentary Breaking Glass, The Pat Summit Story, which
(48:09):
chronicles the life and career of the legendary women's basketball
coach who led the Tennessee Lady Bowls to eight NCAA
Championships and thirty two combined SEC titles from nineteen seventy
four to twenty twelve. The doc is co produced by
Rock and Robin Productions, that's friend of the show Robin
Roberts production House. The film drops tomorrow, March twenty fifth
on Hulu, and it'll also air Sunday, March twenty ninth
(48:30):
on ESPN two and Sunday April fifth on ESPN.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
We always love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Sit us up on email, good game at wondermedianetwork dot
com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two
two oh four fifty seventy and.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. Just go do
it now, like do it right now. It's so easy.
Watch a winner on the court and off of it.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Rating eighty one years of greatness and no signs of
slowing down. Review if you've watched any of the tournament games,
featuring the Minnesota Gophers. Know oh the quote unquote Blanket
Lady an older woman who runs through the crowd waving
a maroon and gold blanket with a Minnesota logo on it,
drawing roars from fans. Blanket Lady is eighty one year
old PEPs Newman, who grew up loving hoops and finally
(49:13):
got her chance to play when she discovered a barnstorming
team called the Texas Cowgirls. She ended up playing with
different teams until she was forty four years old, once
scoring one hundred and eight points in a single game.
You can read more about the super hooper turned super
fan in a great story in The Athletic by Eden Lassie.
We'll link to it in the show notes. Newman hasn't
missed a Lady Gopher's home game since two thousand and four, but.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Now they're headed on the road for the Sweet sixteen.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
So here's hope in the newfound attention she's gotten during
the tourney earns her a trip to Sacramento to waive
her team to an even deeper run. Now it's your turn, y'all,
rate and review, Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game,
Annie Alexa Jackie and Doug Good Game Alicia Clark for
shouting out the hard working reporters.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Covering the negotiations youw to the fact that Doug will
I ever feel the.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Rush of breaking news via a social media post, We
hate that for you. Doug Good Game with Sarah Spain
is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzi
(50:23):
and Bianca Hillier. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutter,
Lucy Jones, Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer. Production assistants from
Avery Loftus and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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