We Are The Cool Kids Now with Amber Cox

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're loving
Aubrey Plaza spreading the gospel of attending the WNBA draft
as a fan. On Late Night with Seth Myers, It's Thursday,
April twenty third, and on Today Show, the GM and
COO of the WNBA's Indiana Fever, Amber Cox joins us
to talk about the opportunities and challenges of managing a
player like Caitlin Clark, hosting fans from around the world,

(00:24):
the Fevers entry into the WNBA's facility, wars, and how
her GM job looks a little different as a result
of the new CBA, plus silencing the Sirens. The NWSL
is on a need to know basis, and you gotta
start somewhere. It's all coming up right after this Welcome

(00:47):
back slices. Here's what you need to know today. Let's
start with soccer. On Tuesday, the NWSL announced its latest
expansion side, a Columbus, Ohio team that will be the
league's eighteenth franchise. The club, set to begin play in
twenty twenty eight, will be owned by Haslam Sports Group,
owners of the NFL's Cleveland Browns, MLS's Columbus Crew and

(01:08):
co owners of the mnba's Milwaukee Bucks. Also in the
ownership group, the Nationwide Corporation, a league wide NWSL sponsor,
and minority owners of the Crew, doctors Christine and Pete Edwards.
The ownership group will pay a record two hundred and
five million dollar expansion fee for the team, and the
team will play in downtown Columbus at Scott's Miracle Grove Field,
the home field of the Columbus Crew. The stadium will

(01:30):
be renovated to add a custom locker room for the
NWSL club, and there's also a plan to build a
bespoke training facility for the women's side on the southwest
side of the city. We'll link to a story about
the controversial acquisition of the park they plan to build
that facility on and community backlash to the build in
the show notes. I'll also have plenty more to say
about this team's ownership a little later in the show.

(01:52):
More in WSL. The League and the Players Association announced
on Wednesday they've joined Project ACL, a UK based initiative
focused on reducing ACL injuries in women's professional soccer. Now
we often talk about this on the show, but it's
wild just how few resources have actually been devoted to
tackling this issue. According to Project ACL organizers, only eight
percent of all sports research is conducted on women, and

(02:14):
a lot of that focuses on amateur athletes. The project
started in twenty twenty four as a collaboration between Nike
England's Leeds Beckett University and Fiefpro, the Global Players Association.
For the past two years, they've studied players in England's
Women's Super League, interviewing athletes and tracking their overall workload. Now,
Project DACL will spend three years, starting in June, focusing

(02:36):
on players in the NWSL. It's the first study of
its kind that looks at professional women's football across multiple leagues.
Super interested to see what the data reveals and how
it could benefit not just the league, but eventually players
at all levels. One more piece of NWSL news, the
Seattle Rains Jess Fishlock, announced on Tuesdays she'll retire at
the end of this season. The thirty nine year old

(02:57):
has suited up for the Rain ever since the league
launched in twenty five thirteen. In fact, Phishlock is one
of just three remaining active players from the league's inaugural
season and the only player to spend all fourteen seasons
with one club. Chicago Stars goalkeeper Alissenaire started her career
with the Boston Breakers before getting to Chicago, while Angel
City FC forward Sydney LaRue played for several teams before

(03:18):
landing in LA. Fishlock's thirty assists ranked first all time
for the franchise and her forty nine goals our second
all time for the Rain the twenty twenty one NWSLMVP
and seven time All League selection. She announced her retirement
from Welsh international duties last year, after playing nearly twenty
years for her home country. To hockey where Tuesday night

(03:38):
was a bittersweet one for the PWHL's New York Sirens.
They got a win, beating the Toronto Scepters one nil,
but the game winning goal came in overtime, and the
Sirens needed a regulation win to keep their playoff hopes alive.
New York now joins the Vancouver Golden Eyes and the
Seattle torrent out of playoff contention and in the hunt
for points to get a good draft spot. The Scepters,

(03:59):
for their part, left the game with the L, but
still have a path to the playoffs. It's just very
narrow and very much out of their control. Their fate
depends on how Wednesday Nights Outawa Charge Boston Fleet game goes.
We're recording this before the puck drops on that one
to the WNBA. In a statement on Tuesday, the Minnesota
Links revealed that Nafisa Collier's ankle rehab is progressing as

(04:22):
expected and she's likely to return to on court basketball
activities in early June. With the Links opening their regular
season May tenth. That means Callier will miss at least
the first month of games, possibly more depending how long
the ramp up period is once she's back on the court.
The five time All Star had surgery on her left
ankle March twenty fourth, preparing an injury suffered in last

(04:43):
year's playoffs, and also had surgery on her right ankle
in early January for an injury suffered late last regular season.
To college hoops, the twenty twenty six NCAA transfer portal
closed Monday night, meaning no new players can enter, but
players already in the portal can still commit to new schools.
James opted to stay put as Virginia guard Kumora Johnson
announced Shell Eggs Ait the Portal and returned to the

(05:04):
Cavaliers under new coach Aaron Russell. Now we already mentioned
Audie Crooks's decision to transfer to Oklahoma State from Iowa State.
She'll be joined there by Florida's Liv McGill. Some other
big names on the move include Texas guard Jordan Lee
committing to South Carolina, Iowa State guard Jada Williams joining LSU,
Georgia guard Danny Carnegie moving to Iowa, and Tennessee guard
Talaisha Cooper landing at Ole miss to Golf. The first

(05:27):
major of the twenty twenty six LPGA Tour has arrived
as the Chevron Championship tees off today in Houston with
an elite field playing for a nine million dollar prize pool.
Japan's Mouse Igo won the tournament last year and is
back to try to defend her title, but she'll face
tough competition in world number one Gino Titskun, number two
Nelly Corda, and number three Hugh ju Kim. The action

(05:50):
starts today at eight fifteen a m. Eastern on Golf Channel,
with the final round taking place on Sunday. We'll keep
you posted as players make their way through the competition
to cycling, where the Tour de France Femme is leaving
France for the UK at least to start. Race organizers
announced plants on Monday to put next year's opening three
stages in England. The women's event has started outside of

(06:11):
France just once before. In twenty twenty four, cyclists began
in the Netherlands and this year twenty twenty six, the
race will start in Switzerland, but twenty twenty seven will
be the first time the women will start in the UK,
with the first stage running from Leeds to Manchester and
the second going from Manchester to Sheffield. The third stage,
a team time trial, will take place in London and

(06:32):
finish on the famous Mall in front of Buckingham Palace.
The twenty twenty seven men's Tour de France will also
start in England, marking the first time that both tours
start in the same country outside France. To tennis, the
Madrid Open WTA one thousand tournament, so one level below
the majors in the WTA Finals, is under way in Spain.
Defending champ Arena Sabalanca is looking to continue her twenty

(06:54):
twenty six wins streak with a victory on clay, the
Belarussian world number one faces a stacked field and with
every player in the world top five competing for the trophy.
Number two Elena Rebakina, number three Coco Golf, number four
Egas Fiontec, and number five Jessica Pagoula. They'll all make
their way through the first three rounds by Sunday and
the competition will really heat up next week. We'll link

(07:16):
to the schedule in the show notes and keep you
posted as the matches go on. Finally, today a Title
nine win in southern California. A federal judge approved a
landmark settlement on Monday that will pay former female athletes
at San Diego State University three hundred thousand dollars in
damages after they sued the school and accused it of
violating Title nine. SDSU must also pay one point three

(07:36):
million to the plaintiffs attorneys who brought this class action
suit on behalf of the women. The three hundred thousand
dollars in damages will be split among a class of
seven hundred ninety eight former athletes at SDSU, with each
woman receiving between one hundred and seventy two dollars and
eight hundred and sixty dollars, depending on the number of
years they were a student athlete. The plaintiffs also made
some gains for current female athletes at the university, including

(07:58):
a promise to repair the track, place the turf for
the women's across team, professional photography services, and overall publicity
that's equal to what the men's teams get. Plaintiff's attorney
Arthur Bryant told USA Today, quote, this is the first
case ever in which a school is going to pay
damages to women athletes for depriving them of equal athletic
financial aid. It is definitely not going to be the

(08:18):
last end quote. He also added that for the women,
the money awarded was secondary to the terms SDSU promised
to implement moving forward, ensuring that quote current and former
female student athletes will be treated equally to their male
counterparts end quote. Now this is great news, but we
do have a few questions about the financial numbers in
this settlement, mainly the difference between the payout to the

(08:40):
athletes and the payout to the attorneys, especially given that
the case alleged San Diego State deprived its female athletes
of more than five point three six million between twenty
ten and twenty twenty. Still, we'll take a win where
we can get one slices. I'm going to need you
to give me a minute on this Columbus NWSL expansion

(09:00):
team news. Let me start by saying the Cleveland Browns
org has done some surprisingly good things, including hiring and
elevating the fantastic coach Callie Bronson, who has since moved
on the team's owners. Though the Haslams are also responsible
for trading for quarterback to Shaan Watson and signing him
to the richest contract in NFL history, despite twenty two

(09:21):
different women accusing him of sexual misconduct and assault. And
now the Haslams are NWSL owners. You remember I mentioned
a couple weeks ago the NWSL's social media account gleefully
spotlight incredibly accused rapist Jamis Winston, who was also separately
suspended for groping an uber driver. Well, he was on
the sidelines that had got them FC game earlier this season,

(09:43):
and everyone was giddy about it. And now the league
is welcoming the Haslms as owners of their new Columbus
expansion side. And I guess I have to say it again.
Women's sports We do not have to prop up, be
polite to, or do business with problematic people just because
they're rich or famous. We don't need the support or
money of problematic people. We don't need to be in

(10:04):
business or led by problematic people. We don't need to
prioritize proximity to power over core values, player staff, and
fan experience, and we certainly shouldn't allow ourselves to be
used by problematic people to repair their reputations. Partnering with
owners who are willing to put their staff, front office
and players families in a difficult position having to both

(10:26):
coexist with someone like Deshaun Watson and defend and explain
the trade for him. The Hasms have made clear that
the safety, peace of mind, and happiness of the women
in the Browns franchise matter far less than the potential
to win more games, which they haven't by the way,
Watson has been a complete bust. Has the NWSL learned

(10:47):
nothing from its past in the rush to expand and
make money. They're putting women in the care of people
who have proven that they won't protect or consider the safety,
piece or dignity of the women who work for them.
People who are telling you that women's sports are special
that the values that its core must be protected are
simultaneously partnering with as many owners from the most corrupt,

(11:09):
controversy ridden league we've got, the NFL. You want to
know how women's sports loses its progressive, inclusive magic, follow
the money. Speaking of money, the HASLM spent close to
one hundred thousand dollars to back Jade Vance's Ohio senator
bid in twenty twenty two, and while Jimmy Haslam has
criticized Donald Trump at times, he and his wife and

(11:29):
his company, Pilot Flying Jay combined to contribute five hundred
thousand dollars to Trump's twenty seventeen inauguration. Now, the NWSL
choosing to pick the richest potential owners with ties to
men's pro sports over also rich folks who are aligned
with the women's space, the fan base and the larger
mission is a choice. And if league culture and player

(11:50):
experience is harmed, it'll be clear why disappointed doesn't begin
to cover it. We got to take a break when
we come back. Indiana Fever GM Ambercox joining us now

(12:10):
she's the COO and GM of the Indiana Fever. Former
gigs run the gamut in the sports world, including front
office gigs with the Dallas Wings, the NWSLS, Casey Current,
the Connecticut Sun, the Houston Dynamo of the MLS, Associate
Commissioner of Women's Basketball at the Big East under friend
of the show, Val Ackerman, and the job that started
it all twenty years ago, President and COO of the
Phoenix Mercury. She's a William Woods alum. Chiefs fan will

(12:33):
agree to agree that Brandy Carlyle is the best, and
will agree to disagree on the merits of the Saint
Louis Cardinals. It's Amber Cox, Hi, Amber Oh, so happy
to be here.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
I'm such a fangirl.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Sarah Oh, I love that. That's so fun to hear.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Just thrilled to be here. Yeah, I love everything about
the pod.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
I appreciate you making the time because I know it
is a busy time. So I wanted to ask quickly
before we even got into this, how did you best
try to make use of your time waiting for the
new CBA agreement to get done? Because I know you
knew you were going to have to hit the ground
running in full sprint whenever it was finalized.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, you know, there's still a lot of preparation to
be done. You know, we did a lot of modeling
with you know, how free agency could look, you know,
again making some assumptions there to just get as prepared
as possible. We said from the beginning, Kelsey Mitchell was
our priority. We wanted to bring back some of those
core pieces in Lexi Hull and Sophie Cunningham, and then

(13:25):
you know, I think looking at free agents, and you know,
we had the luxury of knowing most of the league
was a free agent to find those complimentary pieces that
made a lot of sense so that whenever free agency
opened up, we were ready to go and actively recruit
those those folks to the Fever. And then you know,
we're preparing for the draft as well, so watching college games.

(13:46):
We have scouts that are domestic and international, So there
was still a lot of work being done.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, it's like waiting, waiting, way fire here, fire there,
like get this one going. You know, friend of the show,
Jay Perry, who we had on to talk about hosting
the final Foign Phoenix, was actually the one who hired
you with the Mercury back in the day and told
us that you wanted to come on the show, which
we were so excited about. But you have said in
previous interviews that she really helped you get a good
footing in the sports world. So what were some of

(14:15):
the lasting pieces of advice when you took on that
first gig as president and COO of the Mercury.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, Jay really got me started in the business. I
was working at small college athletics. I was a small
college athlete. So when I came into the WNBA, I
was with the Mercury for nine seasons. And when I started,
I was the director of marketing and really didn't know
much about the business of sports at all. And this
is two thousand and five, so it was still it
felt like we were kind of like into it in

(14:40):
the WS like year ten, but we really weren't now
looking back, and we were still really hustlers and scrappers
in every sense of the word. So Jay really taught
me all those fundamentals in terms of what we need
to do to continue to grow the business. You know,
how do we continue to think about and be innovative
around revenue streams to continue to grow the business. We

(15:02):
had to be really creative. We were the first team
to ever do the marquee partnership across the Jersey with LifeLock.
So you know, Jay was just a tremendous mentor. She
is to this day. She really set me up for success,
the most amazing thing. I've been doing the job for
probably gosh, four or five years, and she took me
down to coffee one day and said, Okay, you're taking over.

(15:24):
And I was like, no, no, no, no, you're not
leaving me. But she knew I was ready. And I
think great leaders know when they can turn sort of
their mentees loose. She turned me loose. Luckily she stayed
with the Suns, so she was literally up the stairs
and I ran those stairs several times, running back and
forth to ask for advice. But yeah, she's an incredible

(15:46):
mentor and somebody I still lean on to this day.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
That's great. You've bounced around a lot in the sports world.
You said nine seasons in Phoenix, but then two years
and a few places, four or five years and a
few places. Has that been intentional sort of a desire
to experience different team cultures or was it just sort
of you wanted to leave here or someone wanted you
to leave.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
By the time I was done with my tenure at
the Mercury, I was running the business in the basketball
so I, you know, for the last couple of years
was doing roster construction, serving in that you know, quote
unquote GM role, and I was still heavily entrenched in
the business side as well. We had won a couple
of championships, we had just drafted Britney Griner, so I

(16:25):
felt like it was time to take a different approach.
I was turning forty, and Val Ackerman very appropriate that,
you know, I'm telling this story with the announcement of
VAL's retirement, was just taking over the Big East and
I had just missed Val in the w and I
was just completely enamored by everything about Val. I read

(16:46):
the white Paper like, you know, cover to cover, and
when she took over the Big East, she really said, Okay,
we don't have football, and women's basketball is really going
to be you know, we're going to put a big
focus on it and try to build women's basketball to
be a business. So I was really excited about that.
I was excited about the opportunity to move to New

(17:06):
York worked for Val. I got all the great original
WNBA stories while I was there and learned a lot
about working in major college sports. Nothing is no move
has ever really been like I'm going to go for
two years in the leave or go for four years.
Other opportunities have presented themselves. I think the consistent theme
is that I keep coming back to the w When

(17:29):
I left the Big East, I really decided college sports
was not really my jam. I wanted to be in
professional sports, and I think at the time, we were
really taught that your next step was men's sports. You know,
you need to move up the ladder to men's sports.
So I was like, Okay, I'm going to take this
step into MLS, who was also a very emerging league.

(17:50):
And I got there and we had the NWSL team
as well the DASH, and I just so happened to
sort of align with Carly Lloyd being there scoring three
goals in the World Cup, and the DASH was taking off,
and I found myself spending like eighty percent of my
time focused on the Dash. So it's like, Okay, this
is the universe telling me something.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
That's a sign.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, that's a sign. And then you know, I did
that for a couple of years. It was great experience,
but that was sort of again, it was a lesson
that I wanted to spend my time working in women's sports,
And funny enough, Kelly Crosscoff, who is now the president
of the Fever, another mentor of mine since day one,
actually recommended me for the job in Connecticut to go

(18:30):
run the Sun and so I was like, I missed
the W. I'm going to go back to the W
and that was my step back into the WNBA.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Selfishly, there's some teams in Chicago that have struggled for
long stretches, and I've asked people outside of the space,
like who have played for the Cubs and elsewhere, or
have played for the Bears and elsewhere. Is there something
you can feel or tell about other places that help
explain why they have continued to success across different coaches
and quarterbacks and years and what doesn't work other places

(19:00):
that I wonder for you if you've gained important perspective
from witnessing different team or league cultures and how they operate,
and that informs how you want to run things with Indiana.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, I mean, I think consistency really helps. I'll just
talk a little bit about the Mercury for example. I
think on the business side, there has been a very
consistent thread in terms of passing the torch to the
next person. Jay passed the torch to me. Vince Kozar
has now been a mainstay with the Mercury for a

(19:32):
long time. Vince and I worked together for a while.
He had just come back to the Mercury when I
left and ended up taking the reins. So you know,
there's a common thread there, and I think the same
can be said on the basketball side as well, or
the sports side of things. You look at the Fever
for example, one of the really unique things about the
basketball culture here is just the the you know, you

(19:55):
see Steph White coming back, and you look at our
coaching staff, Championships, Pond January, Kareema Christmas, even Austin Kelly
was on the practice squad. So you know, there's a
common thread and understanding of what the identity is and
who we want to be and how we want to
represent ourselves. So I think that consistency in some form.

(20:16):
You know, you might have short time frames where it's
not there, but coming back to that always seems to
bring you back to sort of your origin.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, you were COO of the Wings when the Fever
drafted Kaitlyn Clark in April of twenty twenty four. How
long after that did you get the offer to join
the Indiana front office and how much was that acquisition
part of your decision to make the move.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Well, I'll tell you a funny story about Caitlin and
the Fever played their very first pre season game in Dallas,
and you know, again, the demand was just through the roof,
and I had some really interesting experiences. And I'll never
forget sitting in my seats in Dallas sitting next to
a gentleman who had come in on sponsor tickets and

(20:58):
he had never been to a game, he didn't even
know Dallas had a team, And by the third quarter
he was so enamored by arique A Gumbawalle that he
went up and bought season tickets for the Wings. So,
in addition to just the visibility and everything Caitlin has
personally brought to the league and what she means, she
has exposed so many people to all of the other

(21:20):
great players in our league and that has been a
significant impact around the league for the other teams as well.
So again, something I personally experienced. You know, I got
to the end of the twenty twenty four season is
that right? Twenty twenty four season, and again Kelly Crosscoff
had been called back to be the president of the Fever.

(21:41):
She had moved over to work on the Pacers side
for a few years, came back and again that's a
relationship that's been there for a long time. With the Wings,
I was not on the basketball side of things. I
was only working on the business and at every other
stop in the WNBA, I had been heavily involved on
roster construction, helping with free agents, working closely with players.

(22:03):
I worked very closely with Kurt Miller when we were
in Connecticut, and I missed that. And so when Kelly
called me and said, hey, I'd like you to come
back and help me with this be the general manager.
Also have you know some input on the business side
as well, giving your experience, I jumped at that opportunity.
And certainly a young roster that includes Caitlyn Clark and

(22:25):
Aleiah Boston was very very attractive as part of that.
And oh, by the way, Kelsey Mitchell so very excited
about that. Core.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, not bad, pretty good.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
What are some of the opportunities afforded to a team
with a generational talent? Game changing name and draw like
Caitlin that maybe aren't the most obvious ones we already know.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
I think the thing that has been really phenomenal to
see and still just strikes me every home game is
the people coming from out of count This is becoming
such a bucket list for people not only in our
country but all over the world. And so, you know,
it's really afforded the opportunity to think about not only
our experience, our game day experience and what that looks

(23:05):
like around the game, but how we are showcasing our city.
I mean, people are spending their vacations, their vacation dollars
to come to Indianapolis to see a Fever game. That's
at the center of what they're doing. And you know,
now living here over a year, I really love this city.
I love everything it has to offer. The restaurants are great,

(23:25):
there are a lot of attractions, a lot of things
you can do if you're bringing your family. So I
love that opportunity to showcase our city. So that's something
we talk about a lot, is you know, how do
we continue to build out the experience beyond just the game.
We know the game is the focal point. It is
has the spotlight. The play on the court is what
it's all about. But you know the entertainment value and

(23:47):
what we're doing in arena, everything from F and B
to our retail again, you know everything around the game
as well in the days leading up.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, make it worth folks coming all this way to
see the game and then also have the variances around
the game. But also means that you, maybe more so
than any other team in the w have to consider
the widespread nature of your fan base. It's a great
problem to have. But your fans aren't just local. Your
fans are national, and how do you serve them both
in the arena and just in general thinking about your

(24:16):
fan base as being a much more geographically spread out group.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, our digital platforms are really important. We talk a
lot about how do we storytell around that. You know,
last year was a really interesting case study with Caitlin
only playing thirteen games and you really still saw the
fans show up in a big way. And I think
that is a true testament to a lot of the
storytelling that we were doing on our platforms to put

(24:42):
a spotlight on each and every one of our players.
I mean, we have people coming in you know, late
August into September because of our injuries, and each one
of those players was embraced and we really took the
opportunity to tell their story, what they were about, and
certainly when they would have those big mom it's on
the court, really highlight those and again that's a way

(25:03):
that fans all over the world can stay really really
connected to what we're doing.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
What are some of the challenges that come with an
opportunity like having Caitlin Clark because obviously the talent is insane,
but her ability to draw in fans and attract attention
good and bad is Unlike most things we've seen in
women's sports.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
It feels mainstream, right like you're a mainstream sports fan.
You're a Cubs fan, I'm a Chiefs fan. You see
what happens when somebody misses a field goal or you know,
doesn't get the last out and they should. The attention
that draws, especially online, is at a different level, and
certainly I think we see a lot of that. Absolutely.

(25:45):
I mean the spotlight is really really bright, and you know,
with that comes the criticism or the feedback or the
opinions of you know, fans, right, a bigger fan base.
I mean I remember the days when you could make
a transaction, you would trade a player, and it would
even like register on local news in the local paper,

(26:06):
and certainly not online. So it's a new day, and
certainly we understand that we have the biggest spotlight in
all of women's sports, and with that comes, you know,
some of the criticism as well.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, with great power comes great responsibilities. Said Spider Man
or Spider Man's uncle or something you mentioned. All the
conversation around Caitlyn. It's a great thing. I mean, teams
are looking for that, but also it's sometimes a tough thing,
especially if folks aren't projecting their own social and political
beliefs onto Caitlin, especially if she's being quoted or often
misquoted or quoted without nuance. What role, if any, do

(26:39):
you think the team should play in managing or responding
to any of that.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
She's incredibly smart, she has an incredible team around her.
I think, you know, when she feels strongly about something,
she's going to say it. I don't think that is
our responsibility for any player, quite frankly, to project anything
onto them or make assumptions one way or the other.
So we're just there to really support do what we

(27:05):
can Whenever, you know, she says hey I need XYZ
or I need support here, we're happy to do that.
But again, she's incredibly smart. She's going to say what's
on her mind when she feels that it's time to
do so, and we're behind her one hundred percent when
she does.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, teams have a very new challenge in that it's
great that players want to be on social media communicating
with fans, that they'll have their own brand teams and
things like that. That's been the case on the men's
side for a while, but even just maybe fifteen years ago,
most things still went through a team to get to
a player, and now players can communicate freely and openly
without any regulation. So you've got a player like Sophie Cunningham,

(27:42):
for instance, she makes her voice heard on a lot
of things, from officiating to her one year deal with
the team and maybe wanting a little bit more. We
love a player that leans into things and wants to
share with the fans. But also you know, she's drawn
some negative responses and finds at times from the league
for talking about things like officiating. So what conversations do
you have with your players about their brands or their

(28:04):
off court activities. Are there any guardrails or rules in
place in terms of their content their partners otherwise?

Speaker 2 (28:10):
No, I mean, these are grown women. They're going to
do what is best for them, and again we're going
to support that when it's representing them and not necessarily
the brand. I think that's different. I mean, you know,
if Sophie's going to say something about the officials, I'm
the one that has to deliver the message that hey,
you've been fined. I think she told that story on
her podcast.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
The fines are going to go off too now that they're.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Getting paid for I know. So you know again, they
all have platforms. They're going to use their voice. We
have to understand that comes with the territory as these players.
It's what we've always wanted, right, We've wanted them to
have a voice, and it's why I love this league.
These women deserve a platform to say what's on their mind,
give their opinions on things, and we support them to

(28:55):
be themselves.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Speaking of like content and partnerships, how do you lean
into marketing and highlight Caitlin without alienating or frustrating the
rest of your players? It's obvious there's a bit of
a divide between her and literally everyone else in the league.
But also you've got great, marketable, really interesting players. I
wonder even if sometimes the partners you work with demand

(29:16):
a certain amount of buying from her or time or
image usage and things like that that you have to balance.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
No, there's really never We've never really run into that.
I think, you know, Caitlyn is a team person above all,
and so that's what we're here to do on our
channels is focus on the team, and she's a part
of that. And we want to show, you know, the
good culture that we have, that she's a great teammate,
that her you know, Eliah Buston is a great teammate,
and obviously show the great play on the court. You know,

(29:45):
our our brand partners understand that they're partnering with the
Indiana Fever. She's obviously got her own separate deals. Some
of those overlap. That's great, we love that. But when
you're partnering with us, you're coming on were to support
the whole team.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, you know, you mentioned Caitlyn just thirteen games last season.
Last season was frustrating for the Fever, for the fans,
not just Caitlyn injuries, but a ton of injuries. You
went wounded Warriors into the playoffs, which was so impressive
and still got some big wins. Kelsey Mitchell literally like
went out dying to stay out there for as many
minutes as she couldn't do what she could. You know,

(30:22):
I think basketball wise and awareness wise, there were some
opportunities lost because of all those injuries and Kaitlin being out,
especially with the All Star Game in your city that
was so disappointing internally, where there's some activations or events
that you rolled over to this year, financial projections that
you had to recalibrate, like how did you see what?
To me from AFAR felt like maybe like we might

(30:44):
have to put a little pause on some stuff and
pick it back up when we can get our team
back to full strength next season.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
I mean incredibly like we didn't feel any real drop
off at all.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
It was unbelievable the way our fan base showed up
and got behind this team. Obviously Caitlin was incredible from
just being a great teammate, and on the sideline, I
think the resiliency of this team last year resonated with people.
I got so many messages and still here from fans.
That team kept me going. I was going through something

(31:16):
hard in my life, but I saw that the fever
just kept kept on. It didn't matter who was on
the team, they were going to continue to be resilient
in fight.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
So I am too.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
I mean dozens and dozens of stories like that. So
it actually was a pretty tremendous year, given you know
that she only played thirteen games and people just kept
showing up. I think the Studbuds at the All Star
Game being front and center, we love the Studbuds gave
a great behind the scenes and kept the activations rolling

(31:47):
there for sure.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Well, and Indianapolis is such a great place for events
like that. Everything is so close and walkable, and it
feels like it's easy for things to be accessible for
everybody who wants to participate. I mean, you guys did
a great job.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
You've got a fresh start coming up very soon. Season
tips off on May eighth. A lot of familiar faces
you mentioned, Caitlin Clark, Leaboston, Kelsey Mitchell, also some new faces.
Your top draft pick Raven Johnson, a fan fave out
of South Carolina. What did you say in her Why
did you want to add her to the mix.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
To me, she's the best defender in the draft. I
mean we've seen it already in training camp. I mean,
she just will get up in you and if she
is going to defend, and it doesn't matter, she's going
to get switched off on a big and she's down
there defending a Leah Boston if she has to. We
saw that in the tournament. Unbelievable, we did. Yeah, it
really is. She has so much tenacity. She plays with

(32:38):
great pace, She defends without fouling, which we were not
great at that last year from an analytics standpoint. So
we're just really excited to add her to the mix.
And she is just I got to tell you. I mean,
she is a bright light. She is so happy to
be here. She comes to practice with a smile on
her face. After the first day, I said, how you doing.
You know, it's a lot coming at you terminology. You know,

(33:02):
things are moving really quickly, and she said, I just
had the best time. I had so much fun. So
she is acclimating really quickly. She asked tons of questions.
She's a total sponge. So we're just thrilled, thrilled. I
could not believe she was there at ten. Frankly, yeh,
so just really excited that we were able to add
her to the roster.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
As I'm sure you know, w fans and maybe some
trolls as well love stirring things up, and they've been
stirring up the Raven Caitlin beef from their college days.
Did you have to think about that at all when
making the pick?

Speaker 2 (33:33):
No way, no way. I mean, I think Galiah said
this earlier this week on her podcast, like fans make
more of those things than players do. I mean, all
of these guys at some point were competitors in college
and then they come together in their teammates. I mean
there was also a clip circulating of Sophie and Heinz
Allen from you know, Washington Phoenix, and none of that

(33:55):
matters when your teammates when you come in and you
put on the same jersey. These are professional women, they
want to win. They're all in it together. So no,
we absolutely didn't give that one second of thought.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
The best example of that was Colliat Copper and Sophie
from back when they were on opposite teams when Kyle
is still with the Sky, and then they were on
the murky room. You're like, oh my god, oh my god,
oh my god. And then they were besties. They are
having a great time there, or at least it looked
like it from Afar, And I think that's part of
it too, is like so much judgment is made from
Afar and also the limited amount of information, so people
have no idea what's going on except for what they

(34:26):
saw during the game, and so then that becomes blown up. Oh,
this is the only thing we know about Raven and Caitlin,
So this is what we're going to assume is going on,
and you know, there's so much else that fans don't know.
Do you ever feel like you do want to talk
to existing players on your roster about relationships or opinions
about draftees or potential free agent signings, just to see
if there are any chemistry issues or something you might
not know about.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
No, like, look, we get input from our players. I
mean that goes back to when I was in Phoenix
with Diana. You know, these guys know the ins and
outs of the people that they're competing against. You know
better than anybody, and you know, especially when you're talking
about the cornerstones of your franchise. You want to have
that dialogue, you want to have that open communication. But

(35:09):
it's it's the basketball. It's what you're talking about, you know,
the fit. How does this person you know fit with
you and how we want to play. And again it's
just feedback that they're giving us to that goes into
sort of the collective. But we absolutely take into consideration,
you know, with their opinions.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, you were on stage at the Business of Women's
Sports Summit along with Eliah Buston and some other reps
for the Fever talking about the new performance center. Man,
it looks fantastic. It looks like somewhere players might want
to live. Forget the housing stipend that they get, they
could just hole up in the facility. Twenty four to seven.
How important is it these days for talent retention and

(35:49):
for free agency recruiting to have a center piece facility
like that.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
It's really important, And we know more of these players
are around full time, so we want not only during
the season and players to feel really comfortable coming in
and be able to get not only their you know,
basketball business done, but be able to take care of
some of their off the court things as well. We
try to consider many many things there to cover that

(36:13):
portion of their.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Lives, like the podcast studio, the podcast studio, letting a
Leah Boston make that post moves right from practice.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
That's right, she can just pop downstairs and then get
her nails done next door.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Oh nice, I know, right.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
But you know in the off season too, we want
people to have a consistent home, our players to feel
like they can come to Indy, work out with our coaches,
and continue to get better in the off season. It's
really really important. Again, we were really thoughtful about the
holistic player experience, you know from moms that may be
coming in to again the podcast studio and content studio,

(36:49):
given how important that has become for so many of
our players, to just make sure that they could have
sort of a one stop shop when they came to
the practice facility.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
It looks gorgeous and it certainly will be a selling
for the team as you're trying to keep top talent
like Aliah, who you just signed to the first epic
contract in WNBA history. Caitlin obviously top priority. I imagine
I can think about the other teams circling like Sharks
when her contract is up, how much pressure do you
feel on an everyday basis in creating the kind of

(37:17):
culture community support wins to make sure that someone like
a Caitlin Clark wants to stick around.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
You know, I don't think it's pressure. I think we
were all competitors in this business. We want to be
the very best, and we want to have the best facilities,
the very best player experience. Obviously, we want to be
great on the floor, so that is the driving force
behind everything that we do. And we know that great
players want to play with great players, and we feel

(37:46):
like if we can check all those boxes and control
the controllables, then the great players are going to want
to be here, and that includes Caitlin. And obviously a
commitment like ab just gave us gives us a real
indication that we're doing it the right way. So we're
just so thrilled to have those two as cornerstones. And again,
you know, they've just meant so much to this franchise

(38:06):
already and we expect that to continue.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
You mentioned controlling the controllables. There are some things that
are tougher to control. One of those is you know,
over the last two years, some of the players in
the w visiting Indiana have said they've experienced an increase
in racist remarks citing fever fans or that it's been
more difficult to play in Indianapolis, also comments online, which
I know the league has tried to put forth a
couple different programs or at least one big program to

(38:30):
try to combat that. Is that something that you as
a team have looked into. And do you worry at
all about recruiting because of a fear that there becomes
some sort of you know, narrative around the experience of
playing in Indianapolis.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, I mean, look, we have so many incredible fans
that show up night in and night out, and they
are great WNBA fans that not only support our team,
but they're here because they believe in this league and
what it stands for, and that includes every player in
the league. You know, what we will not tolerate is
any of harassment towards players or racism or homophobia. And

(39:04):
we definitely have action items in place. We have a
cybersecurity team. We've obviously got security out our games, We've
got security that travels with us, and you know, we
expect to know and we want to know if anyone
crosses a line and are ready to take action. We
definitely don't want that to be the experience for anyone.
And again, we believe ninety nine point nine percent of

(39:28):
the people coming in the building online are here for
the right reasons. But again we don't tolerate any of that.
We never want that to be the experience for anyone.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
I can't believe you just said ninety nine point nine
percent of people online are are I don't think that's.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Are they real though, Sarah?

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Are they're the real people? Maybe? Are?

Speaker 2 (39:48):
I never know what's a troll? What's abot?

Speaker 1 (39:51):
I nobody knows.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Nobody knows anymore.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
You know, you have this dual role as GM and COO,
So the basketball and the business roles oftentimes we'll probably
go hand in hand, but are the there are other
times when you recognize the need to very clearly be
wearing just one of those hats.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Yeah. I mean, you know, when we're going through free
agency and we're in that time period, I'm very focused
on the basketball side of the house. We are really
fortunate we've got a lot of tenured people here on
the business side. So again, I feel like in a
lot of ways it goes hand in hand. It is
beneficial to understand and have a pulse on what's happening

(40:25):
in the business because that does impact, you know, the
player experience and how we want to do certain things.
But we have a lot of great people that are
really hands on. I don't have to be in the
weeds in that space. It really just allows me to
keep a finger on the pulse of everything that's happening
on the business side. But they're definitely you know, like
we'll have breaks in the off season where I can

(40:46):
spend more time talking about things like the brand or
the brand campaign. But then when we switch over into
free agency, like I said earlier, I'll just put my
GM hat and I'm spending the majority of my time
on that side.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
It feels from the outside too, that there's a great
relationship with the Pacers being a part of Pacer Sports
and entertainment, the players going back and forth, Caitlin and
the players sitting courtside, the Pacers players coming to support
the women. So that's nice to have, and obviously a
very very very clear, deeply rooted love of basketball in
the area that you get to build off of, which

(41:19):
is nice. I'm wondering how much you think your GM
gig has already changed or will change with this new CBA,
new rules to learn, new standards of pay, lots of
movement from players that are looking to grab a max
or a near max. And you know, the difference between
a really big contract in the league and not is
a lot more now than it used to be, which
might cause players to do a lot more moving than

(41:41):
they used to. How will that impact your role?

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah, I mean I think there are unknowns right like
this all happens so quickly. We were all learning on
the fly, just trying to get this season off the ground,
so you know, all of us will have to dig
in and really have a deeper understanding of the impact
of some of those things and what it's going to
look like moving forward, you know. So I think time

(42:06):
will tell on some of that, how things level out,
whether people are still signing long term deals or people
are opting for shorter term deals. Again, it's a new
day with a different type of a payday, and we're
so happy about that for every one of these players.
They absolutely deserve it.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah, And it's so different for you being in this
role than when you were high ranking with the Mercury
twenty years ago. What's the thing that stands out to
you most about the difference between the job then and
the job now.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Oh Man, Can I say Diana Tarassi.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Just not having to deal with her? Oh Man, It's
kind of what Jay Perry said too.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
I've got to go to the bench, Sarah, I really
want to go to the bench and sit on it.
You know, you don't have to worry as much about
I mean, frankly, like there were some scary times there
where you know, you knew you had to hit a
certain thresholds or sell a certain amount of tickets, and
we felt like we were constantly scrambling for those last

(43:07):
thousand tickets because it's TV game and you wanted it
to look really good on TV. And again, it just
felt like you were constantly begging people to come in
and try it. And again, we knew they were going
to love it once they came in. But and I
think Sue Bird said this many years ago, like we
were lacking like this cool factor that now the switch
has flipped and we are the cool kids in the

(43:31):
sports world. We don't have to be constantly thinking about
and struggling for, you know, a small sponsorship here or there,
or the last thousand tickets. On the business side of things,
we can focus on bigger strategy thinking globally, you know
how we're doing things on a scale that does impact
our players and help us storytell for our players in

(43:53):
a bigger way. So I think it just allows we
don't have to be in the weeds so much on
the really small things. We can really focus on big,
bold ideas moving forward.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, I think Sue was speaking to and this was
something that was so frustrating for such a long time,
was the poisoning of the well unnecessarily. It doesn't have
to be your favorite thing, but why are you wasting
your time dogging it or talking about it, making it
the butt of a joke. Especially there were high profile
folks on like ESPN who had the rights to w
while some of their lead male voices we were mocking it.

(44:25):
It was really frustrating. I'm excited for the thirtieth season.
I'm excited for the changes to come. My Chicago Sky
made some huge changes in the off season, and it
feels like some of the signings we're seeing from this
new free agency it's just going to challenge maybe our
expectations of how long people stay maybe even to parody. Right,
instead of taking five hundred thousand dollars to be a

(44:46):
small star on a great team, maybe you get paid
a million to go somewhere else and that could change
the landscape. And do you have to consider that too
when you're looking at this upcoming season not really knowing
which teams to circle on the calend or you might
have to just circle all of them for now to
figure out who's going to be bringing you the biggest challenges.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
I mean, look, I think every night is challenging in
the W. I mean even the two expansion teams are
going to be competitive with the staffs they brought in,
with the players that they've picked up, and some big
names that have decided to go there. To your point,
so every night in the W is a challenge. I
think that parody is what makes this league so great.

(45:26):
Every single night you're going to get the very best
of everybody. These women show up and compete so hard.
But I you know, some of the long term stuff
are just, to your point, unknowns, and I think that's
the fun part of it. As we learn and try
to predict, there are going to be things that we
just can't.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Well, I'm super excited to get out to some games.
I got to get out to Indy for a home
Fever game. I've only been out there for All Star stuff.
You know, this doing a whole daily show thing and
trying to get to all the events is really snagging
my style. I got to figure out how to do
both at the same time. So maybe we'll do a
live show from Bridge or something like that. Amber, thanks
so much for taking the time to come on. It

(46:03):
was so great to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Thank you, Sarah, appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Thanks again to Amber for the time, and don't forget
you can now watch full length good game interviews on
the Iheartwomen's Sports YouTube channel. We got to take another
break when we return a Metal and a Ring in
one day. Welcome back Slices. We love that you're listening,

(46:29):
but we want you to get in the game every
day too, So here's our good game play of the day.
Get yourself a real dog, like literally a dog, but
named after a dog. Michigan Women's Soups head coach and
friend of the show, Kim Barnes Arico is the inspiration
for a cute little mutt at the Humane Society of
Huron Valley and Ann Arbor, Michigan. Kim bones Arico arrived

(46:52):
with more than thirty other pups thanks to the help
of tight End on the Michigan football team Zach Marshall,
who sponsored the pups transport. Kim will be available to
a this weekend, so someone go get her. If the
real Kim doesn't get to her first, we'll link to
the pups profile in the show notes. We always love
to hear from you, so hit us up on email
good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a

(47:12):
voicemail at eight seven two two oh four fifty seventy
and don't forget to subscribe a rate and review. It's
so easy watch just take it from producer Bianca.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
The twenty twenty six Boston Marathon rating the best day
of the year in Beantown Review. The twenty twenty six
Boston Marathon was on Monday, and guys, it was just
about as perfect of a day as you could ask for.
It was partly sunny with times in the forties, which
is ideal for running twenty six point two miles, and
I was out there on the course cheering all day

(47:45):
long with my friends with my cow bell in one
hand and my good game sign in the other. It said,
good game runners, Good game volunteers. You hitting the wall,
which is what it's called when you hit about the
twenty mile mark and you feel like you can't go
any further. But I was cheering and screaming as over
twenty nine thousand people finish the race. And if you've

(48:06):
never gone to watch a marathon, no matter what size
it is, I cannot recommend it enough. Watching the pros
is astounding, but watching normal people everyday, people push themselves
and support each other, is so emotional. I posted some
updates from the day on my Blue Sky, including catching
a man proposing to his girlfriend at mile twenty three

(48:29):
while she was running the marathon.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Okay, this is quite a controversial move.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
To some people, it sounds like fun and celebratory, and
to others it sounds totally selfish. It would be a
no for me personally, but honestly, this woman looked like
she enjoyed it, and all of her friends were there
to celebrate, and I'd like to think that the friends
would have told the guy, you know, do it at
a different time if they thought that this woman would
hate the mid race gesture.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
So it looked like a great time.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
Congrats to the couple and another absolutely banner marathon Monday.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
I'm already looking forward to next year. Thanks Pianka. Now
it's your turn rate and review. Thanks for listening, slices,
See you tomorrow. Good game, Amber, Good game, Zach Marshall.
You repeating the same mistakes over and over again when
it comes to problematic ownership in sports. Good Game with

(49:23):
Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership
with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are
Alex Azzi and Bianca Hillier. Our executive producers are Christina Everett,
Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are
Emily Rudder, Lucy Jones, Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer. Production

(49:46):
assistant from Avery Loftus and I'm your host, Sarah Spain

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