December 23, 2025 • 48 mins
This week on Good Luck With That, Ashley sits down with Natalie Porter — skateboarder, librarian, historian, and author of Girl Gangs, Zines & Power Slides: A History of Badass Women Skateboarders.
Natalie’s work spans more than two decades of research documenting women’s skateboarding history not as a footnote, but as a through-line. We talk about rage as fuel, the power of self-documentation, why every generation thinks they’re “the first,” and what it actually takes to preserve culture when the industry won’t do it for you.If you care about skateboarding, culture, history, or who gets remembered, this one matters.Girl Gangs, Zines & Power Slides is available now through indie bookstores and libraries. Explore Natalie’s living archive at womensskatehistory.ca.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Good Luck with That is an iHeart women's sports production
in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to Good Luck with That. I'm
your host, Ashley Raifeld. Today's guest is Natalie Porter, a skater,
a librarian, and a historian. Natalie is the author of
Girl Gang Zines and Power Slides, a book and living
archive dedicated to documenting women's skateboarding history. One of our
central arguments is deceptively simple. Skateboarding wasn't gendered at first.
(00:34):
It became gendered once the industry formed. The idea opens
up kind of a bigger conversation about power, belonging and
who gets remembered. And that's where we're headed today. So
let's get into it. You're a skater, a librarian, and
(00:57):
now the author of Girl Gang Zines and Power Slides.
About two decades of work in the making. How did
all of those parts come together in this book?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Ashley, Well, first, thank you so much for having me.
It is a privilege and an honor. A huge fan
of the podcast. I'm just having a blast tuning in
every week, so much fun. Yeah. So, you mentioned two
decades plus of a lot of work a lot of
nerding out, and yeah, basically two thousand and three, I've
(01:28):
been skateboarding for a while, since ninety five, and I
decided I wanted to do this thesis paper for my
masters and I decided to focus on women in skateboarding.
And I actually someone tried to talk me out of that.
I thought I was too narrow, and thank god I didn't. So, yeah,
this thesis paper emerged. There was initial chapter just on
skateboarding history, and I wanted to take it further. Yeah,
(01:52):
first I tried to pitch it as a book, and
I was told by some publishers like, oh, we already
have a book on skateboarding, and I'm like, no, this,
this is different. This is like a whole different perspective.
So I just kind of kept hoarding stuff, pursued my
library science degree, kind of use that skill set to
go deeper and deeper and get collecting zines. And then, yeah,
(02:16):
I guess around the pandemic, I threw down this women's
skate history archive just kind of a place, a community
hub where I could create kind of bios and just
fill it up with content. And I was motivated by
a bit of rage, like I don't know, I just
wanted a place where there was just a motherload of
evidence because I was kind of sick and tired of
(02:37):
hearing these things like oh yeah, like to my face,
you know girls in skate in the nineties or eighties
or seven, like just whatever decade that person was part of,
And yeah, I just kept getting a bit riled up.
So obviously, like I'm a librarian, I'm not like physically violent,
I'm not a violent person. I needed like to channel
(02:59):
this rage. So that was the archive, and that was
kind of the foundation of this book where yeah, I
just kind of started to really dig in.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You're librarian and you know how to research things. But
were some of the themes that kept popping up?
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Well, it is kind of fascinating how almost like every
generation of skateboarders, because yet we know that skateboarding ebbed
and flow, the industry went through highs and lows. So
each new generation comes along and they think like, we
are the pioneers, we're the ones, we are it and like,
and they're often sort of isolated, scattered about, and then
(03:34):
they find each other and there's sort of this also
this ongoing thing of DIY, like the industry male dominated
is not gonna do it for us, do anything for us.
So this is a pattern that repeats over and over,
like and globally as well, not just in North America. Like,
oh gosh, there's a gatekeeper at this magazine. I gotta
(03:56):
get myself out there. I'm going to create my own zine.
The contest organizers aren't permitting me to join in. I'm
going to create my own contests. So this kind of
repetition stuff happens over and over. Yeah, I do want
to kind of tie things together. I wanted to see
some threads, some like yeah, some patterns in this history.
(04:16):
And there's different changes too, depending on bigger picture historical contexts.
Like I think in the last episode, or maybe a
couple of months ago, you were talking about like the
sixties seventies, there's like Women's Live, there's a civil rights movement,
There's all this like really powerful change making stuff, and
then boom economic recession. There's a retaliation, there's backlash, like
(04:40):
men want their power, white men aren't their power back
And so this has an impact on the skateboarders too.
You know, as much as we want to pretend that
we're a counter culture, they're very much influenced by these
attitudes and like whether it's homophobia during the eighties and
the AIDS and HIV crisis that plays out in sort
(05:01):
of skateboarding, or like, you know, this Reagan mentality of
you know, women back in the house, family values. You know,
suddenly girls are you know, told to be sidekicks, girlfriends
only like get back in the kitchen kind of stuff.
And you actually read that in letters from guys who
are like responding to female skaters.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
So it's interesting to watch just how yeah, history as
a whole impacts skateboarding, and then how it affects women
and how we respond often by going underground and just
doing our own thing, because you.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Know, we're we're a special breed of people. We're pretty
bad ass. That's like the subtitle of the book, History
of Badass whim Skateboarders, because like, oh, we have to
put up with all kinds of comedy.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Comedy is so polite, How nice of you to say
it that way.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
So there's always these missing links, and I just wanted
to piece it together, create this puzzle like this, Yeah,
as I said, this mother load of information where you
could just hop on in, hop into a decade and
just explore to your heart's content. Yeah, that's my that
was my goal.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I think you accomplished that goal, and we're looking forward
to the renewal of it as well. So your work
is obviously not done, which is so exciting about this
is just such a living library that will continue to
go on. You know, skateboarding is a toy. That's how
we initially looked at it. Of course you've said this
best and it wasn't. It didn't have a gender around it.
But you mentioned how once the industry formed, that shift happened.
(06:34):
So can you walk us through.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
That definitely, Like, yeah, the late fifties, early sixties, you
hear this over and over. You know, the waves were flat.
We wanted something to do. Skateboarding was it, and it
was very like accessible to kids, you know, go to
shop class, get a two by four and roll their
skate wheels and it was a toy and it was joyous.
(06:57):
But like from the get go, there was definitely like
tension from the authorities in cities and mayors wanting to
like disband this rogue collection of children having fun and
creating chaos. But yeah, gender, no, it was really a
toy for everyone, and you see that from the very
(07:17):
first issue of the Quarterly Skateboarder, like in nineteen sixty four. Yeah,
girls are present. And this is the other fascinating thing.
The very first editorial in that magazine, they're talking about
the Olympics. They're aspiring to the Olympics. So from the
get go they're thinking about how that could be and
(07:39):
sort of competitions and potential for that, and yeah, obviously
it goes through a dive into the seven before the seventies,
you know, brought back to life and again that sort
of idea of the Olympics that was like the ultimate
standard of validation for skateboarding back then. And yeah, you
see some women like Jenet p she was like, you know,
(08:01):
state champion of California not going pro because she thought,
we're gonna be in the Olympics. I have to remain amateur,
which was the deal back then. And so they still
had contest divisions for girls and guys. But the moment, yeah,
you go pro, and there's like it becomes this massive
(08:21):
money making machine in the seventies, like major money, Like, yeah,
industry was happening. That's when you start seeing the divide
contest pay totally despair for the guys and girls, the
pro women, you know, Sunday morning or whenever, whenever, the
guys are finished, like very dismissive, and it's a it's
(08:43):
just fascinating how it Yeah, it did start so equitable,
but the moment like yeah, money comes in, it's like
something shifts and we're at a disadvantage.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Which I always find so interesting, the money shift part,
because there is a business case, undeniably for women in
skateboardings a bigger marketplace. I think you're just doubling the marketplace.
It's just really quite simple. So it's wild when you
think back to you talking about this equitable beginning of
skateboarding that was just purely about joy, and then there
(09:14):
was a little bit of a formality assimilating around it
for it to be more of a sport in the seventies,
an industry, and then the collapse of that as we
see skate parks disappear and the industry take a dive.
In the eighties, a new industry kind of rises. Can
you tell us a little bit about that period and
what the industry shifts from.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yeah, yeah, well eighties, like remember a lot of towns
had banned skateboarding in the streets all the way back
in the sixties, so that had repercussions in the eighties.
The parks are gone. They have to return to the street,
so there is a kind of a gritty element, you know,
seeking out pools and streets and all. Yeah, it did
shift and it changed, it did become more punk. But
(09:58):
the thing is, like there's still rules in punk subcultures,
like and it's often the guys who are making those rules,
and so that became popular and trending, and then we
have another, you know, way of recession and then things
are picking up again.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
In the eighties.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
It is completely rebranded as a subculture for young, prepbescent
boys and completely catering to them. And the Olympics is
off the table. There's not even illusion that's gonna happen,
so they have no sense of like accountability of returning
to like, you know, girls and guys divisions like that
(10:34):
was cut off. In nineteen eighty one, the Association You
Should Have Skate Park Owners decided, hey, girls, you're doing great.
You know, Carabeth was obviously leading that crew, but there
was a crew of girls who are doing great, having
a blast. We have to eliminate your division. You have
to now skate with the boys. This is nineteen eighty one.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
It is done.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
And like obviously, like Carabaths was skilled enough to like say,
all right, here we go and kept going. But a
lot of the girls weren't not into that, Like they
didn't feel comfortable, and so it took like a certain
kind of gritty person to like want to pursue it.
And so by mid late eighties is often older teenagers
(11:15):
like punk girls are like, yeah, I want to get
into this and I want to I want to make
zines and I want to have a community, and that
things kind of began picking up again, but yeah, no
support from the industry at all. And I'm so fascinated
with the eighties. I love it. I love the zines.
I love these stories of just like this is you know,
(11:37):
subculture within the subculture, if you could even call it that.
This is the real deal. They had to go through
hell from not only like their parents thinking, you know,
stigmatizing this as a juvenile, delinquent pursuit. And then there
they're peers, they're fellow skateboarders, you know, shitting on them.
So I found the eighties so fascinating. But yeah, it's
(11:58):
definitely completely branded as boys only pursuit. And yeah, but
you can find these like really candid stories in zines.
That's why I find them. It's in like the title
of my book. I find them so important. These like
primary documents. They're tactile. There's no gatekeeper saying like, oh,
you can't say that your photo doesn't deserve to be
(12:20):
in it. The letters, it's just glorious. So Ladies Skateworld
by Lori Cooley Wong, True Devotion by Bonnie Bluin, Girls
Who Grind by Lynn Kramer, which became Equal Time Zene. Oh,
they're just they're gold. It was too punk, too hardcore
for girls. Not true is actually the opposite. These girls
(12:44):
were too hardcore for you as let's.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Say, yeah, you say that women in skateboarder are often
more punk than men and without a doubt, And it
wasn't because they were a louder. It was because they
were willing to exist without permission, yes, and willing to
build their own worlds around it and move through all
of that friction endlessly because of the joy of skateboarding.
And it's again, it's so hard, like it's easy for
us to have a conversation within our world, to really
(13:08):
have just utmost respect for each other, because we know
it's just such a choice that you choose over and
over again, and it comes with a lot of effort,
not just the effort of learning the activity and like
figuring out how to do it, but it has all
of these other massive, bigger picture points of friction around it.
And as someone who's worked as in the industry for
(13:31):
most of my working career, I really like to zoom
in on like what it's like to be in that position.
But I find it so you know interesting where it's like, yeah,
this is skateboarding anti authority, so badass, like against the rules,
but it polices itself, kind of cannibalizes itself quite often,
(13:51):
so contradictive from its punk ethos. You know, we see
these young new groups of kids that are so much
more expansive in how they look at gender identity, how
they look at belonging. It's like it brings this beautiful,
like full circle back to that spirit of skateboarding and
really where this thing got started. And yet like the
core industry rejects it so much. This pipeline of young
(14:16):
men that started off punk and inspired to almost conservative.
Is this really interesting, rigid place that skateboarding is currently
and do you see any of that right now from
your observations of like past to present and what's going
on within the industry and just the general conversation.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I've been invited on a Closer skateboarding magazine. I've been
a columnist for them for I guess the last it's
the four issues. I've written a column for them. And
I think there's like a little hint of like nostalgia
and also a desire to kind of rectify the pass.
And you see that with Rusher magazine and you know
a few individuals now on the cover a like illness
(14:56):
Esteamer and I don't know, so I think there is
a desire to change. I'm trying to convince myself of
it at least.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, I mean, there definitely is that desire. We're seeing
it in real time. We're seeing commitments to put women
on skate teams and support them financially. We're seeing like
you know, guaranteed pathways that are being developed for women
to really stay in skate or and be supported. I
think there's more room to grow on it, of course,
(15:27):
without a doubt I also think that there is this
like rectifying of the past where there still is a
little bit of just like maybe not consulting the community
for like best picks. Like it's all great, everyone's the
best pick, but sometimes I feel like it's so clear
you're still not listening or paying attention to the conversation
when you're just kind of scrambling things together to figure
(15:49):
out who was in the past or who is going
to be the future and who is the present.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
And all they can say is like, girls have been
progressing so much in these last couple of years, girls
of progressing, progressing, And I say, how the fuck do
you know? You never were paying attention in the past,
like you were a watching so how actually do you know? Yes,
they are progressing, they're doing amazing. There's some like insane
(16:15):
skateboarding happening. But it greats on me that like they
say this without any context because they really don't know
they weren't watching X games back in the day.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
It's just like kind of kind of funny, annoying.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, And like the coverage was so limited as you know,
you know, like there were eras where women's names popped out,
you know, you had Karabeth burnside out for a reason,
like she was able to hold media power because of
just the extraordinary talent. But there's three year research, you know,
an entire community globally, and then in the nineties it's
(16:53):
always like Alyssa Steamer and Jamie Ray is well recognized,
well deserved, absolute heroes, there's no question. But why were
those of the only two women we were talking about
I that time.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Period interesting because it's almost like the skateboard industry. I
think they were aware, maybe they were aware that there
was tons of other women's skateboarding, but it served the
industry well to tokenize just some individuals, and it kind
of made the guys feel like, oh, they're just like
these exceptional, freaky women that are really amazing. This couldn't
(17:32):
possibly happen for you know, you know a significant portion
of young girls as skateboarders to rise up. It just
made them feel better that it was just like these
select individuals. That's kind of how it felt. And that's
also like this thing in the sports industry as.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
A whole, speaking of girl gangzines and power slides. We'll
be right back after this break. We're in the nineties
and we're talking about, you know, the incredible career that
Alyssa Seimer and Jamie Rays were able to have lightly
(18:13):
supported in the mainstream media, and we see the need
for more female skate contests. Patti Scovia comes out with
All Girls Skate Jam in ninety seven. Do you think
I'm curious to get your take on the late nineties
into the early two thousands when we saw a little
boom around women's skateboarding. We saw Rookie, we saw Galla's
(18:37):
step up, we saw young guns who were inspired by
Listen Jamie, like Vanessa Torres and Amy Coron and Lauren Malika,
and we just saw this like really incredible group of
young girls with a camera behind them, aka Lisa Whitaker.
I want to be an episode of good Luck with
that if we don't talk about Lisa Whitaker. So I'm curious,
(18:58):
what do you think was going on in culture in
late nineties early two thousands and why did that little
like blip of hope kind of happen in that moment.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Well, I'll give props to the Ryot girls, Like you know,
we kind of have to look at these other movements
that are happening so early nineties, ryot Girls Pacific Northwest
were like, we were sick of being raped and being
like ostracized from the punk scene. They also, you know,
created zines, they created community, created like safe spaces, the
(19:33):
Ryogo conference in nineteen ninety two, a lot of a
lot of anger they were. They were making themselves known
and their their issues and their frustrations. And there were
quite a few Rye girl skateboarders as well. You see
the zine Gunk by ram Dasha bi scene just an
amazing black skater punk badass who had their own zene
(19:56):
and was calling things out and just like so so
that became there was a lot of hype around the
Riot Girls, but they resisted being kind of corporatized. But
the mainstream did it anyways, and so this girl power
thing comes along and it's like there is a bit
of hype or a girl power and there's money there
(20:17):
as well. So I don't know what's going on, but
like I think it started to occur to some of
these companies. I think, yeah, Gallas and obviously Rookie had
great intentions, like they they got it. They were like
elevating a team of women and yeah, Rookie especially because
they had a really cool vision with a very equitable
(20:38):
group of skaters in New York. So I think they
were channeling, I think channeling this movement that I equate
with the Riot Girls. And yeah, from there, like yeah,
people were trying things out, and unfortunately, like you kind
of hear rumor, like I did quote at Templeton in
an interview who kind of felt like his experiment with
(21:00):
the Lissa was a failure. And this was I think
around two thousand and one. He was quoted as saying that,
and the reason was because, like the guys weren't just
weren't buying or bored, and in his mind, it was
still up to the male market of skateboarders to determine
our fate, as if like we depended on them to
buy our products and had no concept that they could
(21:21):
sort of cultivate a market of young women who were
like willing to you know, buy these boards and these
shoes and like yeah, so it still had this really
backward mentality of like thinking that we're dependent on them,
but we really aren't.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, and the Shrinket and Pinka era, you know, it
just wasn't like again, it was an industry deciding what
they thought would be the way to market to women,
and it was a short blast at best. It was like,
we're going to do this because yeah, we're curious, like
there are women skateboarders here. We have these professionals that
we can market on the backs of, so let's do that.
(21:59):
But the way that it they went about it was, yeah,
shrink the T shirt, make it smaller, for it to
be a woman's T shirt, make it pink. We saw
that with Alyssa's you know atny Shoe Like we again,
like as a skateboarder who was influenced by when I
came into skateboarding as a young you know, teenager thirteen twelve,
thirteen years old and looking for people that looked like me,
(22:21):
it's like that again, the gaze was maybe miscalibrated, and
then the commitment was deeply miscalibrated. You know, men skateboarding,
a bunch of eighteen year olds who were like, we
can do it bigger, better, and defiantly punk in their
own ways to start their brands with their friends failed
again and again and again. In fact, the skateboard industry
has had many crashes and companies that have gone defunct
(22:45):
or resurrected, and so it's so interesting the determination and
the willpower and just the ego driving through failure. But
when it came to women, that bottom line, we didn't
see those boards cells, so it was a failure. It
was just like a lack of commitment. Really uh, and
we're starting to see a bigger commitment.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I was literally just having a conversation with do you
remember Luisa Menke, Dutch Algerian skater.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
She was the.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
First European pro woman with a signature board in two
thousand and three, and so we're just talking her experiences
and she was remembering how, you know, it was great
she was on certain companies that I won't name, and
yet they would continue to use models in the advertisements
of products that you know, she was representing and you know,
(23:34):
busting her ass on you know, handrails and like you know, blood,
sweat and tears, but they would still resort to models,
and it was so hurtful to her, like she almost felt, yeah,
like second best. And then she said, like to go
into the offices of these companies and there'd be like,
you know, women working in the office getting paid better
(23:56):
than her. As you know, the pro athlete and how
messed up was that And she just said that was
so hurtful at that time, kind of messed with her
head a little bit.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Of course, we're talking about someone who was a professional
skateboarder and era that wasn't just at your fingertips through Instagram,
So to figure out where that female skateboarder was and
where they lived globally, somehow I knew who if you
were a female skateboarder, I knew where you lived, I
knew what country you were representing, essentially, and I had
(24:27):
some awareness to pre interneteah, And that's all through the
community and through zines. So you want to talk about
how also that must have been the case for you
as well, and just talk about the power of the
communication of zines.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Oh my gosh, guess last year or year before, one
of the subscribers to Equal Time Zinge gave me the
mailing list, all the addresses of all like these, you know,
two hundred and fifty members of the Women's Skateboard Network
in nineteen eighty nine. Like they were like serious pen pals,
you know, long distance far phone calls so expensive. Yeah,
(25:02):
snail mail, that's what they had. Yeah, they knew each
other everyone you just know, and like that's been my gig.
Like I'm obsessive with lists of names, and I've just
kept a record since the nineties of like anytime and
name someone popped into my radar, you know, our rumor
of someone's sister who used to skateboard, like I'd keep
track of it. And uh. And then I remember receiving
(25:24):
my first zine, which was Villa Villa Cola in nineteen
ninety seven. I think some of my friends were able
to go down to the All Girls Skate Jam. I
did not because I am a nerd and it was
in September and I was in university. I was like,
so sad didn't get to go. Yeah, so they brought
back the zines and then that crew came up for
Slam City Jam and we competed with them in ninety
(25:47):
eight and yeah, and then we started to the internet
was there, and we had Internet forums which were just awful,
anonymous little shits around the world of skateboard you can
only imagine. But then there were some sort of safe
spaces like yeah, different different forms that we were trying
(26:09):
to protect each other. But yeah, so that was kind
of the first sort of in finding your people, and
then of course, yeah Lisa bless her with the side
project which became Girls Skate Network and sort of that
centralized hub, and she was posting finally the contest results
that were starting to emerge. You kind of like take note.
(26:31):
And then like Gallas Skate Jam was over in France
and Germany, and so they're starting to pop up and
just starting to keep track of all of these names
around the world. But then of course check it out
zine Turn magazine, Like holy smokes, yeah, I gotta give
them more props. Always have to like articulate that, like
(26:52):
what an amazing initiative from emerging from Brazil coming up
to the States and becoming a bilingual, glossy, gorgeous magazine
like they're up to. They did eighteen issues and then
they had a nineteenth and of course the funding and
whatnot sort of failed them. But yeah, at the time,
like I just coveted that magazine and uh so cool. Yeah,
(27:17):
so we found our way. But it was always liked,
I y do it for yourself, because yeah, it's just
no one's gonna really help you out. But I think
it makes it more authentic and more like just more
badass for.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Me, Villavilla Coola was instrumental in helping open up a
world of skateboarding to me.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Oh yeah, so, like they were just such a creative
crew of skaters that have basically San Diego Nicole and
Tippany Morgan were sort of the twin sisters that really
initiated that. And like people like Lori Damiana, Lori d
who's still at a like amazing creative artist who is
just like, yeah, such a legend graphic designer and creative person,
(28:00):
and Van Newen and uh fay Hami Haimi and yeah,
just an amazing crew of people. And yeah, they just
weren't playing the game. They were doing their own thing,
making their own zine. I think there was a time
where they tried to like pitch some gear to skateboard
shops and like the guys like, why would girls want this?
(28:23):
There are no girls around here or skate like to
their faces at the time, like I know, like I'm
not articulating it. Well, but yeah, so they persevered, they
found their people, and they sustained it through the decades.
You know, had their highs and lows, pursued different things.
But like gosh, two thousand and three, when they came together.
(28:44):
I think Lisa said she was, you know, accumulating footage
of all these young guns like Vanessa and Amy and
uh and yeah, had a vision for getting no more faster,
and four one one Video magazine stepped up and were
just like blown away like we didn't know oh, and
to finally clued in, like we got to make a
feature film here, which was amazing. So they persisted and
(29:09):
I really appreciate that. And yeah, obviously up in Vancouver
where I was at at the time in the late
nineties early two thousands, at this amazing crew of skateboarders,
which included Michelle Pizzell, who would go on to launch
Anti Social Skate Shop, and she's just like she's a connector.
She just makes things happen, so many positive things. And
(29:32):
we had this zcene called Idlewood, which was actually came
out I think was it two thousand and seven. A
little bit later, we were all like riding motorcycles because
we wanted to access the skate parks all around the
Lower Mainland. So the zine is kind of like this
skateboard motorcycle road trip crazy publication. It's so much fun.
(29:54):
It was just a really fun to contribute to. And
I think the first couple issues I had a column
which is like a women's skate history column back then,
which is on the basis for all this fun today.
But yeah, I really am grateful to her, Like, yeah,
I met her in I guess ninety seven and she
was still in high school and I was in university,
(30:16):
and she had this crew that I kind of adopted
and had a lot of fun with them. Yeah, zines
were just this fun outlet and they're tactile and they're
not gonna disappear, like it's really important to preserve them
if you've got them, and share them. And yeah, no copyright.
Usually you can just photocopy and send it off to
(30:37):
your friend. And just the antithesis to other magazines that
are dependent on ads and content and they can use
that as a justification for excluding women, which has happened
over and over. Speaking of Villa Villa Cola, there was
for a while in trans World, I because in two
(30:58):
thousand and four every second issue they were supposed to
have this two page Villa Villa color feature and I
think it lasted four issues, and then Laurie was told
we have to give room to ads. We can't afford
those two pages dedicated to girls.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
We have more pages to flip in the zcene.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
We'll be right back after this break.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
You said to yourself, like you had to get through
a little bit of anger through this book, And as
someone I can relate so much to that, especially because
I've had to sit through meetings where it's like what
wasn't said was the problem or what was said was
the problem, and there's an accountability that feels so absent.
How did you work through your anger and writing this
(31:56):
book and creating the archive project. Yeah, it's been.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
A funny journey because, like I think right at the
beginning kind of referenced this experience where like I've taken
a break from skateboarding, I've returned to it in my
early forties. I'm at the skate park chatting up this guy,
skate Dad. He's got his daughters there practicing, and just
like making small talk like oh, you know, stretching, wearing reskards,
(32:22):
blah blah blah, and then just turning to me and like,
you know, when I was skateboarding, learning your skateboard in
the nineties, there were no girls, and like I just
told them about my crew Michelle Bizelle back in the
early nineties, like not far from this guy, and I
just was like shocked. I was like, and he told
me like, girls didn't start skating until like the Battle
(32:44):
of Women's Battle of the Barracks. I was like, that's
like what they didn't start and like and I kind
of realized after a while, he's got this standard of
what skateboarding is. You are not a skateboarder until you
can accomplish something on par with what he can accomplish.
That that is the golden standard. So if you're yeah,
(33:05):
just pumping around, you know, practicing kickflips on the flat, like,
you are not a skateboard So I've that's what I
kind of realized, Like there's still these weird rules of
like who gets to define who's a skater, who's authentic?
And it's just boring. It's just it's just infuriating.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It's like, is this for real?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
We still talking about this that's so eighties? So boring eighties?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
It is really boring. So what we're going to take though,
to move beyond that? Like just narrative, Yeah, what's it
gonna take for us to get there?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Just this a new generation that never had to go
through that dialogue. It just like that it was never
never talked about.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah, it was super disappointing, and so that kind of
like prompted me, like this person legitimately doesn't think there
were women skateboarding before you know, Tony nineteen. So yeah,
I got to work and started putting down my evidence,
breaking breaking up myths and stories and lies. It was motivating.
(34:12):
It's good, it's good to be angry. But at the
same time, I realized if people are gonna like listen
to me and new generations of men, like, that's not
how I'm going to get my message across through anger.
So it I'm trying to come at a place of
like opportunity for someone to learn and to learn new things.
(34:35):
And but I needed that proof of I needed the stories,
I needed the zines. That's really helpful me helping me
because now there's no denying it. And this is this
brings me great joy because I tag every single photo
on that archive and quite meticulous about the tag the
naming of it. So if you're like, say a dude
(34:58):
googling a name of escape Bark from nineteen seventy eight,
like Carson City, California ninety said, you're gonna get a
photo of a woman's skateboarder because I have, like I've
just pummeled the internet. It's like oversaturated it. So now
those are the Googles Google images that are gonna pop
(35:18):
up for you. It brings me such a joy.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
We thank you for your service so much. So I
love it. There's room in skateboarding. We have historians and archivists.
Now you know, Ted Barrow is doing an incredible job
really using a framework that's never quite been brought in
talking about the materiality of skateboarding and the intersection of
those land planners and architects and just again the bigger
(35:43):
societal context of what's occurring and how skateboarding just kind
of intersected with that. And I think the structure of
your book is really interesting and really incredible. How you're
able to move through it in a really unique way.
What inspired you to kind of create this storytelling that
you were doing, and how are you doing it through
the different like layers if you will.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Yeah, So the intention wasn't to do like a traditional timeline,
and also it's not intended to be like a Who's who,
because you know, I've I've got the website for that.
That's I can populate bios and sort of some statistics
contest wins on the website. That's a great place for
it to go. But I wanted it to be a
bit more accessible and readable. And yeah, my editor encouraged
(36:28):
me to do first person, to kind of talk through
my journey of anger to maybe a bit more contentment
and optimism of it. So I go through this journey,
and I also talk about how as I connect with
more of these women, because like, I had no intention
of interviewing anybody, Like I like research, I like writing.
(36:50):
I am a hermit, I'm a super nerd. But I realize,
oh my god, I have to reach out because there's
literally no interview on Casey's apart for example, a skater
in the eighties who was on like SMA and just
such a cool person. So I had to be bold
and reach out. So the reader is gonna come along
(37:11):
on this journey. And how I go about doing that,
you know, my various beeps with like Tony Hawk, and
but like, how I get through that and come to
a place of peace? Yeah, I try to keep it entertaining,
but there are so there are also some darker sides
(37:32):
to this story. I do get into me too stories.
You know, the nineteen seventies is portrayed as some golden
era of skateboarding, but there is a dark side, and
more and more women are coming forward with some of
their experiences, inspiring other women of that generation to talk
things through. Yeah, so I get into some dark stuff,
(37:55):
but like, I'm just not going to shy away from
anything because honestly, like I am a rogue librarian, I
am not bound to anybody, Yeah, which is really freeing.
Like I'm up north in Canada, like I'm not even
I'm not even in the heart of it. Sometimes people
think I live in la but no, and maybe that's
to an advantage because I haven't a been disconnected. So
(38:18):
I felt like I could. I just talked pretty freely
about things and yeah, and tried to find threads to
weave through and talk about history, talk about creating historical context,
the problems with archival silence when only like one story
one you know, pro skater who got all the sponsors
and one all the contests, like it's only his story
(38:40):
that gets told in the history books. So yeah, really
trying to challenge that Yeah, I had a pretty good,
pretty good time and made some amazing connections with these
women who are now like my own mentors, like showing
me how to be as I get older and you know,
hitting menopause. It's around the corner, like, yeah, they're just
(39:01):
like they're so incredible and they have all these stories
to tell and not necessarily like the big names like
like Carabeth, Like there's just such a diverse range of
stories and people who have different talents like organizing you know,
meetups and contests and zines, not necessarily champions Olympic skateboarders.
(39:23):
But uh yeah, so I had a good time and
I hope the readers enjoy it, and uh yeah check
it out.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Where can we find your book? Where should we be
buying your book?
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Tell us, Oh, technically you should go through your local
indie bookstore. They can easily bring it in for you.
Your local library. You can suggest a purchase, but I
should do a plug. If you're more of a visual person, listeners,
please do me a favor if you could check out
Unfinished Skate Film. So At Unfinished Skate Film. This is
(39:58):
the efforts of Pam Riddle. My so back in two
thousand and one to two thousand and four, she accumulated
a crap ton of interviews of like all the legends
and like even some of the most elusive skateboarders like
Lori Rigsby No One she never talks about skateboarding, you know,
Saysha Clark, Anita Testenson, Stephanie Person, Like, oh my gosh,
(40:21):
Patty Nickee rest in peace, Ellen O'Neil, like she gathered
these incredible stories and all of this footage, and of
course back in the day, back in two thousand and four,
she could not get support or funding for her documentary.
And she's trying again, you know, twenty years later, and yeah,
Lisa's in there, like, oh my god, it is so glorious.
(40:44):
So I've actually seen the bulk of the film and
it's amazing. She needs support, like this is Netflix quality
kind of documentary. Someone needs to jump up and just
step up and help her, because it is killing me
that this footage is not out there. I really really
want this. Yeah done. So, yeah, unfinished skate film. Do
(41:09):
yourself a favor. If you're more of a visual person,
check it out and give her some love. Pam Riddlemeyer,
you're doing good. Work also for other visual options. You
can check out your archive. Tell the listeners a little
bit about that as well. Real quick, sure, Yeah, Women's
Skatehistory dot ca A. And it's kind of organized into decades,
(41:31):
so nineteen sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties. I'm just getting into
the nineties and early two thousands because I really focused
on the earlier decades. And I'm up to like three
hundred and fifty plus bios now from all around the world.
I'm finding like the national champions of like Brazil and
the Philippines in Mexico from back in the seventies, you know,
(41:55):
shining light on them, and any footage or photos or
interviews I put it there. And it is just like ongoing.
I'm relentless, I'm obsessed anytime I find something new, like,
I just at it all the time, and then starting
to create like new bios as well. It's just ongoing.
I love it as so much fun because it's winter
(42:17):
right now and it's raining and dark and miserable, and
I need to stay connected somehow. And I'm really fortunate
because like having the Instagram account as well, I do
have this sort of mini nerdy community where people are
looking out for me now and like sending me scans
of zines and you know, different pictures that I may
not have seen. So it's been a real collaborative effort.
(42:39):
Now it's like kind of snowballing. It was originally just
like me solo being just crazy psycho librarian, but now
it's for Yeah, people are helping out, which is really fun.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Crazy psycho erbe librarian for those that are listening, if
you're younger and feel intimidated by a zine or don't
have act just to it, can you encourage some listeners
about like just the power of making your own zine
and the simplicity of it.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Definitely. Yeah, it's like you can make it whatever you want.
You can put like ridiculous horoscopes in it, recipes, photos,
your rants, your letters, artwork.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
It's just limitless.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
And uh, libraries collect zines. There are like designated zine
librarians who want a record because it's like it's tactile
and it some you know, bizarre librarian thirty years later
might stumble upon it and just like but as so
fascinating and it's just such a cool record, especially for
(43:42):
communities that have been kind of ostracized through the years
and uh yeah, there's no one telling them but they
can't do it because it's like DIY, just photocopy it,
share it with your friends, have a lot of fun,
and yeah, don't worry about what anyone thinks of it.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
It's not that hard to get published. You can do
it yourself. So I love that. And you know, we
have a whole community. If you create your zine, tell
us about it. We'd love to help promote it. We
need more people telling stories about women and gender expansive
skateboarding trure. We are here for it. It's almost the
end of the year. We're getting into the holiday end
of your wrap up feelings. Tell us about some of
(44:22):
the things that are in in twenty twenty six for you,
and some of the things that are out in twenty
twenty six.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Ah, twenty twenty six, it's gonna be so magical. What's in?
You know what I'm actually kind of hoping for. Like,
I've been consulted a few times on museums putting together
really cool skateboarding exhibits, and I'm happy to do that.
I'm really excited about that. But oh my gosh, I
(44:52):
would love just like more dedicated exhibits about you know,
maybe just women women's skateboarding. Yeah, like I want to
see that through. I want to just see yeah, more
broad perspectives, just more diversity, because I do sometimes worry
about those ebbs and flows, Like when there is sort
(45:13):
of an economic struggle, often the first groups of people
out to be ditched are you know, women, LGBTQ, two
spirit plus. Like it's it's a bit, it's a bit
nerve wracking. So I just hope that we don't resort
to that, that we just we dig deep into some
of those like roots of anarchy, you know, and use
(45:35):
our power and our community to just challenge what's going
on big picture where you know, political powers want us
to feel afraid, to feel i don't know, insecure, to
feel powerless, but we're not. And uh, We're just going
to keep getting creative, getting out in the streets doing
these fun things. Like I've never been to Wheels of Fortune.
(45:57):
I get to go to Wheels of Fortune for the
very first time. I'll be there talking it up. I'm
actually gonna do a little history session, maybe some PowerPoint,
I don't know. So there's gonna be some good times ahead.
I'm really, really excited. So that's that's in. Yeah, Wheels
of Fortune is in cool museum exhibits. That's happening. Those
(46:17):
are in those are in. Oh actually thanks to your podcast.
I love to hear that Massugu is back. Missu whu
oh Kamorro is back. Like I was. Yeah, also very
very worried because like the Olympic machine can really spit
(46:38):
out the young people who are I don't know, like
I don't know, disposable not they're not disposable. So that's out.
If someone makes anyone feel remotely disposable or insignificant or yeah,
without value to skateboarding as a community, like, that's out.
(47:01):
It's yeah, out of here. It's all about the love
and kindness and opportunity and having fun with your friends
and like yeah, so that kind of negative attitude, that's
ugly love it.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Okay, those are some good ins and outs I can get.
I can truly get behind all of that. I'm so
excited to see more of your work in twenty twenty six. Again,
I'll post all the links for everyone to really tune
in and get behind the archive. Go purchase the book.
It's a great gift for Christmas. I feel like it
can meet so many different people who maybe just haven't
(47:36):
been a skateboarder. But this is so much bigger than that,
and it's a really powerful book. Thanks exciting, so check
it out please. It's such an honor to have you
on our podcast. Thank you, all right everyone. That was
another episode of good Luck with That with Natalie Porter.
You can find us on Instagram at good Luck Pod
(47:56):
and we'll be here next week recording.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Good Luck with That is an iHeart women's sports production
in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
We are your hosts Ashley Rayfield, Dora of Aspinzelo's, and
Alex White. Our executive producer is Jesse Katz. Produced by
Tarry Harrison, Daniel Goodman and Grace Views.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Listen to good Luck With That, a skateboarding podcast, on iHeartRadio, app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Good Luck with That is an iHeart women's sports production
in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to Good Luck with That. I'm
your host, Ashley Raifeld. Today's guest is Natalie Porter, a skater,
a librarian, and a historian. Natalie is the author of
Girl Gang Zines and Power Slides, a book and living
archive dedicated to documenting women's skateboarding history. One of our
central arguments is deceptively simple. Skateboarding wasn't gendered at first.
(00:34):
It became gendered once the industry formed. The idea opens
up kind of a bigger conversation about power, belonging and
who gets remembered. And that's where we're headed today. So
let's get into it. You're a skater, a librarian, and
(00:57):
now the author of Girl Gang Zines and Power Slides.
About two decades of work in the making. How did
all of those parts come together in this book?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Ashley, Well, first, thank you so much for having me.
It is a privilege and an honor. A huge fan
of the podcast. I'm just having a blast tuning in
every week, so much fun. Yeah. So, you mentioned two
decades plus of a lot of work a lot of
nerding out, and yeah, basically two thousand and three, I've
(01:28):
been skateboarding for a while, since ninety five, and I
decided I wanted to do this thesis paper for my
masters and I decided to focus on women in skateboarding.
And I actually someone tried to talk me out of that.
I thought I was too narrow, and thank god I didn't. So, yeah,
this thesis paper emerged. There was initial chapter just on
skateboarding history, and I wanted to take it further. Yeah,
(01:52):
first I tried to pitch it as a book, and
I was told by some publishers like, oh, we already
have a book on skateboarding, and I'm like, no, this,
this is different. This is like a whole different perspective.
So I just kind of kept hoarding stuff, pursued my
library science degree, kind of use that skill set to
go deeper and deeper and get collecting zines. And then, yeah,
(02:16):
I guess around the pandemic, I threw down this women's
skate history archive just kind of a place, a community
hub where I could create kind of bios and just
fill it up with content. And I was motivated by
a bit of rage, like I don't know, I just
wanted a place where there was just a motherload of
evidence because I was kind of sick and tired of
(02:37):
hearing these things like oh yeah, like to my face,
you know girls in skate in the nineties or eighties
or seven, like just whatever decade that person was part of,
And yeah, I just kept getting a bit riled up.
So obviously, like I'm a librarian, I'm not like physically violent,
I'm not a violent person. I needed like to channel
(02:59):
this rage. So that was the archive, and that was
kind of the foundation of this book where yeah, I
just kind of started to really dig in.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You're librarian and you know how to research things. But
were some of the themes that kept popping up?
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Well, it is kind of fascinating how almost like every
generation of skateboarders, because yet we know that skateboarding ebbed
and flow, the industry went through highs and lows. So
each new generation comes along and they think like, we
are the pioneers, we're the ones, we are it and like,
and they're often sort of isolated, scattered about, and then
(03:34):
they find each other and there's sort of this also
this ongoing thing of DIY, like the industry male dominated
is not gonna do it for us, do anything for us.
So this is a pattern that repeats over and over,
like and globally as well, not just in North America. Like,
oh gosh, there's a gatekeeper at this magazine. I gotta
(03:56):
get myself out there. I'm going to create my own zine.
The contest organizers aren't permitting me to join in. I'm
going to create my own contests. So this kind of
repetition stuff happens over and over. Yeah, I do want
to kind of tie things together. I wanted to see
some threads, some like yeah, some patterns in this history.
(04:16):
And there's different changes too, depending on bigger picture historical contexts.
Like I think in the last episode, or maybe a
couple of months ago, you were talking about like the
sixties seventies, there's like Women's Live, there's a civil rights movement,
There's all this like really powerful change making stuff, and
then boom economic recession. There's a retaliation, there's backlash, like
(04:40):
men want their power, white men aren't their power back
And so this has an impact on the skateboarders too.
You know, as much as we want to pretend that
we're a counter culture, they're very much influenced by these
attitudes and like whether it's homophobia during the eighties and
the AIDS and HIV crisis that plays out in sort
(05:01):
of skateboarding, or like, you know, this Reagan mentality of
you know, women back in the house, family values. You know,
suddenly girls are you know, told to be sidekicks, girlfriends
only like get back in the kitchen kind of stuff.
And you actually read that in letters from guys who
are like responding to female skaters.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
So it's interesting to watch just how yeah, history as
a whole impacts skateboarding, and then how it affects women
and how we respond often by going underground and just
doing our own thing, because you.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Know, we're we're a special breed of people. We're pretty
bad ass. That's like the subtitle of the book, History
of Badass whim Skateboarders, because like, oh, we have to
put up with all kinds of comedy.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Comedy is so polite, How nice of you to say
it that way.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
So there's always these missing links, and I just wanted
to piece it together, create this puzzle like this, Yeah,
as I said, this mother load of information where you
could just hop on in, hop into a decade and
just explore to your heart's content. Yeah, that's my that
was my goal.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I think you accomplished that goal, and we're looking forward
to the renewal of it as well. So your work
is obviously not done, which is so exciting about this
is just such a living library that will continue to
go on. You know, skateboarding is a toy. That's how
we initially looked at it. Of course you've said this
best and it wasn't. It didn't have a gender around it.
But you mentioned how once the industry formed, that shift happened.
(06:34):
So can you walk us through.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
That definitely, Like, yeah, the late fifties, early sixties, you
hear this over and over. You know, the waves were flat.
We wanted something to do. Skateboarding was it, and it
was very like accessible to kids, you know, go to
shop class, get a two by four and roll their
skate wheels and it was a toy and it was joyous.
(06:57):
But like from the get go, there was definitely like
tension from the authorities in cities and mayors wanting to
like disband this rogue collection of children having fun and
creating chaos. But yeah, gender, no, it was really a
toy for everyone, and you see that from the very
(07:17):
first issue of the Quarterly Skateboarder, like in nineteen sixty four. Yeah,
girls are present. And this is the other fascinating thing.
The very first editorial in that magazine, they're talking about
the Olympics. They're aspiring to the Olympics. So from the
get go they're thinking about how that could be and
(07:39):
sort of competitions and potential for that, and yeah, obviously
it goes through a dive into the seven before the seventies,
you know, brought back to life and again that sort
of idea of the Olympics that was like the ultimate
standard of validation for skateboarding back then. And yeah, you
see some women like Jenet p she was like, you know,
(08:01):
state champion of California not going pro because she thought,
we're gonna be in the Olympics. I have to remain amateur,
which was the deal back then. And so they still
had contest divisions for girls and guys. But the moment, yeah,
you go pro, and there's like it becomes this massive
(08:21):
money making machine in the seventies, like major money, Like, yeah,
industry was happening. That's when you start seeing the divide
contest pay totally despair for the guys and girls, the
pro women, you know, Sunday morning or whenever, whenever, the
guys are finished, like very dismissive, and it's a it's
(08:43):
just fascinating how it Yeah, it did start so equitable,
but the moment like yeah, money comes in, it's like
something shifts and we're at a disadvantage.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Which I always find so interesting, the money shift part,
because there is a business case, undeniably for women in
skateboardings a bigger marketplace. I think you're just doubling the marketplace.
It's just really quite simple. So it's wild when you
think back to you talking about this equitable beginning of
skateboarding that was just purely about joy, and then there
(09:14):
was a little bit of a formality assimilating around it
for it to be more of a sport in the seventies,
an industry, and then the collapse of that as we
see skate parks disappear and the industry take a dive.
In the eighties, a new industry kind of rises. Can
you tell us a little bit about that period and
what the industry shifts from.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yeah, yeah, well eighties, like remember a lot of towns
had banned skateboarding in the streets all the way back
in the sixties, so that had repercussions in the eighties.
The parks are gone. They have to return to the street,
so there is a kind of a gritty element, you know,
seeking out pools and streets and all. Yeah, it did
shift and it changed, it did become more punk. But
(09:58):
the thing is, like there's still rules in punk subcultures,
like and it's often the guys who are making those rules,
and so that became popular and trending, and then we
have another, you know, way of recession and then things
are picking up again.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
In the eighties.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
It is completely rebranded as a subculture for young, prepbescent
boys and completely catering to them. And the Olympics is
off the table. There's not even illusion that's gonna happen,
so they have no sense of like accountability of returning
to like, you know, girls and guys divisions like that
(10:34):
was cut off. In nineteen eighty one, the Association You
Should Have Skate Park Owners decided, hey, girls, you're doing great.
You know, Carabeth was obviously leading that crew, but there
was a crew of girls who are doing great, having
a blast. We have to eliminate your division. You have
to now skate with the boys. This is nineteen eighty one.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
It is done.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
And like obviously, like Carabaths was skilled enough to like say,
all right, here we go and kept going. But a
lot of the girls weren't not into that, Like they
didn't feel comfortable, and so it took like a certain
kind of gritty person to like want to pursue it.
And so by mid late eighties is often older teenagers
(11:15):
like punk girls are like, yeah, I want to get
into this and I want to I want to make
zines and I want to have a community, and that
things kind of began picking up again, but yeah, no
support from the industry at all. And I'm so fascinated
with the eighties. I love it. I love the zines.
I love these stories of just like this is you know,
(11:37):
subculture within the subculture, if you could even call it that.
This is the real deal. They had to go through
hell from not only like their parents thinking, you know,
stigmatizing this as a juvenile, delinquent pursuit. And then there
they're peers, they're fellow skateboarders, you know, shitting on them.
So I found the eighties so fascinating. But yeah, it's
(11:58):
definitely completely branded as boys only pursuit. And yeah, but
you can find these like really candid stories in zines.
That's why I find them. It's in like the title
of my book. I find them so important. These like
primary documents. They're tactile. There's no gatekeeper saying like, oh,
you can't say that your photo doesn't deserve to be
(12:20):
in it. The letters, it's just glorious. So Ladies Skateworld
by Lori Cooley Wong, True Devotion by Bonnie Bluin, Girls
Who Grind by Lynn Kramer, which became Equal Time Zene. Oh,
they're just they're gold. It was too punk, too hardcore
for girls. Not true is actually the opposite. These girls
(12:44):
were too hardcore for you as let's.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Say, yeah, you say that women in skateboarder are often
more punk than men and without a doubt, And it
wasn't because they were a louder. It was because they
were willing to exist without permission, yes, and willing to
build their own worlds around it and move through all
of that friction endlessly because of the joy of skateboarding.
And it's again, it's so hard, like it's easy for
us to have a conversation within our world, to really
(13:08):
have just utmost respect for each other, because we know
it's just such a choice that you choose over and
over again, and it comes with a lot of effort,
not just the effort of learning the activity and like
figuring out how to do it, but it has all
of these other massive, bigger picture points of friction around it.
And as someone who's worked as in the industry for
(13:31):
most of my working career, I really like to zoom
in on like what it's like to be in that position.
But I find it so you know interesting where it's like, yeah,
this is skateboarding anti authority, so badass, like against the rules,
but it polices itself, kind of cannibalizes itself quite often,
(13:51):
so contradictive from its punk ethos. You know, we see
these young new groups of kids that are so much
more expansive in how they look at gender identity, how
they look at belonging. It's like it brings this beautiful,
like full circle back to that spirit of skateboarding and
really where this thing got started. And yet like the
core industry rejects it so much. This pipeline of young
(14:16):
men that started off punk and inspired to almost conservative.
Is this really interesting, rigid place that skateboarding is currently
and do you see any of that right now from
your observations of like past to present and what's going
on within the industry and just the general conversation.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I've been invited on a Closer skateboarding magazine. I've been
a columnist for them for I guess the last it's
the four issues. I've written a column for them. And
I think there's like a little hint of like nostalgia
and also a desire to kind of rectify the pass.
And you see that with Rusher magazine and you know
a few individuals now on the cover a like illness
(14:56):
Esteamer and I don't know, so I think there is
a desire to change. I'm trying to convince myself of
it at least.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, I mean, there definitely is that desire. We're seeing
it in real time. We're seeing commitments to put women
on skate teams and support them financially. We're seeing like
you know, guaranteed pathways that are being developed for women
to really stay in skate or and be supported. I
think there's more room to grow on it, of course,
(15:27):
without a doubt I also think that there is this
like rectifying of the past where there still is a
little bit of just like maybe not consulting the community
for like best picks. Like it's all great, everyone's the
best pick, but sometimes I feel like it's so clear
you're still not listening or paying attention to the conversation
when you're just kind of scrambling things together to figure
(15:49):
out who was in the past or who is going
to be the future and who is the present.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
And all they can say is like, girls have been
progressing so much in these last couple of years, girls
of progressing, progressing, And I say, how the fuck do
you know? You never were paying attention in the past,
like you were a watching so how actually do you know? Yes,
they are progressing, they're doing amazing. There's some like insane
(16:15):
skateboarding happening. But it greats on me that like they
say this without any context because they really don't know
they weren't watching X games back in the day.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
It's just like kind of kind of funny, annoying.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, And like the coverage was so limited as you know,
you know, like there were eras where women's names popped out,
you know, you had Karabeth burnside out for a reason,
like she was able to hold media power because of
just the extraordinary talent. But there's three year research, you know,
an entire community globally, and then in the nineties it's
(16:53):
always like Alyssa Steamer and Jamie Ray is well recognized,
well deserved, absolute heroes, there's no question. But why were
those of the only two women we were talking about
I that time.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Period interesting because it's almost like the skateboard industry. I
think they were aware, maybe they were aware that there
was tons of other women's skateboarding, but it served the
industry well to tokenize just some individuals, and it kind
of made the guys feel like, oh, they're just like
these exceptional, freaky women that are really amazing. This couldn't
(17:32):
possibly happen for you know, you know a significant portion
of young girls as skateboarders to rise up. It just
made them feel better that it was just like these
select individuals. That's kind of how it felt. And that's
also like this thing in the sports industry as.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
A whole, speaking of girl gangzines and power slides. We'll
be right back after this break. We're in the nineties
and we're talking about, you know, the incredible career that
Alyssa Seimer and Jamie Rays were able to have lightly
(18:13):
supported in the mainstream media, and we see the need
for more female skate contests. Patti Scovia comes out with
All Girls Skate Jam in ninety seven. Do you think
I'm curious to get your take on the late nineties
into the early two thousands when we saw a little
boom around women's skateboarding. We saw Rookie, we saw Galla's
(18:37):
step up, we saw young guns who were inspired by
Listen Jamie, like Vanessa Torres and Amy Coron and Lauren Malika,
and we just saw this like really incredible group of
young girls with a camera behind them, aka Lisa Whitaker.
I want to be an episode of good Luck with
that if we don't talk about Lisa Whitaker. So I'm curious,
(18:58):
what do you think was going on in culture in
late nineties early two thousands and why did that little
like blip of hope kind of happen in that moment.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Well, I'll give props to the Ryot girls, Like you know,
we kind of have to look at these other movements
that are happening so early nineties, ryot Girls Pacific Northwest
were like, we were sick of being raped and being
like ostracized from the punk scene. They also, you know,
created zines, they created community, created like safe spaces, the
(19:33):
Ryogo conference in nineteen ninety two, a lot of a
lot of anger they were. They were making themselves known
and their their issues and their frustrations. And there were
quite a few Rye girl skateboarders as well. You see
the zine Gunk by ram Dasha bi scene just an
amazing black skater punk badass who had their own zene
(19:56):
and was calling things out and just like so so
that became there was a lot of hype around the
Riot Girls, but they resisted being kind of corporatized. But
the mainstream did it anyways, and so this girl power
thing comes along and it's like there is a bit
of hype or a girl power and there's money there
(20:17):
as well. So I don't know what's going on, but
like I think it started to occur to some of
these companies. I think, yeah, Gallas and obviously Rookie had
great intentions, like they they got it. They were like
elevating a team of women and yeah, Rookie especially because
they had a really cool vision with a very equitable
(20:38):
group of skaters in New York. So I think they
were channeling, I think channeling this movement that I equate
with the Riot Girls. And yeah, from there, like yeah,
people were trying things out, and unfortunately, like you kind
of hear rumor, like I did quote at Templeton in
an interview who kind of felt like his experiment with
(21:00):
the Lissa was a failure. And this was I think
around two thousand and one. He was quoted as saying that,
and the reason was because, like the guys weren't just
weren't buying or bored, and in his mind, it was
still up to the male market of skateboarders to determine
our fate, as if like we depended on them to
buy our products and had no concept that they could
(21:21):
sort of cultivate a market of young women who were
like willing to you know, buy these boards and these
shoes and like yeah, so it still had this really
backward mentality of like thinking that we're dependent on them,
but we really aren't.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, and the Shrinket and Pinka era, you know, it
just wasn't like again, it was an industry deciding what
they thought would be the way to market to women,
and it was a short blast at best. It was like,
we're going to do this because yeah, we're curious, like
there are women skateboarders here. We have these professionals that
we can market on the backs of, so let's do that.
(21:59):
But the way that it they went about it was, yeah,
shrink the T shirt, make it smaller, for it to
be a woman's T shirt, make it pink. We saw
that with Alyssa's you know atny Shoe Like we again,
like as a skateboarder who was influenced by when I
came into skateboarding as a young you know, teenager thirteen twelve,
thirteen years old and looking for people that looked like me,
(22:21):
it's like that again, the gaze was maybe miscalibrated, and
then the commitment was deeply miscalibrated. You know, men skateboarding,
a bunch of eighteen year olds who were like, we
can do it bigger, better, and defiantly punk in their
own ways to start their brands with their friends failed
again and again and again. In fact, the skateboard industry
has had many crashes and companies that have gone defunct
(22:45):
or resurrected, and so it's so interesting the determination and
the willpower and just the ego driving through failure. But
when it came to women, that bottom line, we didn't
see those boards cells, so it was a failure. It
was just like a lack of commitment. Really uh, and
we're starting to see a bigger commitment.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I was literally just having a conversation with do you
remember Luisa Menke, Dutch Algerian skater.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
She was the.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
First European pro woman with a signature board in two
thousand and three, and so we're just talking her experiences
and she was remembering how, you know, it was great
she was on certain companies that I won't name, and
yet they would continue to use models in the advertisements
of products that you know, she was representing and you know,
(23:34):
busting her ass on you know, handrails and like you know, blood,
sweat and tears, but they would still resort to models,
and it was so hurtful to her, like she almost felt, yeah,
like second best. And then she said, like to go
into the offices of these companies and there'd be like,
you know, women working in the office getting paid better
(23:56):
than her. As you know, the pro athlete and how
messed up was that And she just said that was
so hurtful at that time, kind of messed with her
head a little bit.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Of course, we're talking about someone who was a professional
skateboarder and era that wasn't just at your fingertips through Instagram,
So to figure out where that female skateboarder was and
where they lived globally, somehow I knew who if you
were a female skateboarder, I knew where you lived, I
knew what country you were representing, essentially, and I had
(24:27):
some awareness to pre interneteah, And that's all through the
community and through zines. So you want to talk about
how also that must have been the case for you
as well, and just talk about the power of the
communication of zines.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Oh my gosh, guess last year or year before, one
of the subscribers to Equal Time Zinge gave me the
mailing list, all the addresses of all like these, you know,
two hundred and fifty members of the Women's Skateboard Network
in nineteen eighty nine. Like they were like serious pen pals,
you know, long distance far phone calls so expensive. Yeah,
(25:02):
snail mail, that's what they had. Yeah, they knew each
other everyone you just know, and like that's been my gig.
Like I'm obsessive with lists of names, and I've just
kept a record since the nineties of like anytime and
name someone popped into my radar, you know, our rumor
of someone's sister who used to skateboard, like I'd keep
track of it. And uh. And then I remember receiving
(25:24):
my first zine, which was Villa Villa Cola in nineteen
ninety seven. I think some of my friends were able
to go down to the All Girls Skate Jam. I
did not because I am a nerd and it was
in September and I was in university. I was like,
so sad didn't get to go. Yeah, so they brought
back the zines and then that crew came up for
Slam City Jam and we competed with them in ninety
(25:47):
eight and yeah, and then we started to the internet
was there, and we had Internet forums which were just awful,
anonymous little shits around the world of skateboard you can
only imagine. But then there were some sort of safe
spaces like yeah, different different forms that we were trying
(26:09):
to protect each other. But yeah, so that was kind
of the first sort of in finding your people, and
then of course, yeah Lisa bless her with the side
project which became Girls Skate Network and sort of that
centralized hub, and she was posting finally the contest results
that were starting to emerge. You kind of like take note.
(26:31):
And then like Gallas Skate Jam was over in France
and Germany, and so they're starting to pop up and
just starting to keep track of all of these names
around the world. But then of course check it out
zine Turn magazine, Like holy smokes, yeah, I gotta give
them more props. Always have to like articulate that, like
(26:52):
what an amazing initiative from emerging from Brazil coming up
to the States and becoming a bilingual, glossy, gorgeous magazine
like they're up to. They did eighteen issues and then
they had a nineteenth and of course the funding and
whatnot sort of failed them. But yeah, at the time,
like I just coveted that magazine and uh so cool. Yeah,
(27:17):
so we found our way. But it was always liked,
I y do it for yourself, because yeah, it's just
no one's gonna really help you out. But I think
it makes it more authentic and more like just more
badass for.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Me, Villavilla Coola was instrumental in helping open up a
world of skateboarding to me.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Oh yeah, so, like they were just such a creative
crew of skaters that have basically San Diego Nicole and
Tippany Morgan were sort of the twin sisters that really
initiated that. And like people like Lori Damiana, Lori d
who's still at a like amazing creative artist who is
just like, yeah, such a legend graphic designer and creative person,
(28:00):
and Van Newen and uh fay Hami Haimi and yeah,
just an amazing crew of people. And yeah, they just
weren't playing the game. They were doing their own thing,
making their own zine. I think there was a time
where they tried to like pitch some gear to skateboard
shops and like the guys like, why would girls want this?
(28:23):
There are no girls around here or skate like to
their faces at the time, like I know, like I'm
not articulating it. Well, but yeah, so they persevered, they
found their people, and they sustained it through the decades.
You know, had their highs and lows, pursued different things.
But like gosh, two thousand and three, when they came together.
(28:44):
I think Lisa said she was, you know, accumulating footage
of all these young guns like Vanessa and Amy and
uh and yeah, had a vision for getting no more faster,
and four one one Video magazine stepped up and were
just like blown away like we didn't know oh, and
to finally clued in, like we got to make a
feature film here, which was amazing. So they persisted and
(29:09):
I really appreciate that. And yeah, obviously up in Vancouver
where I was at at the time in the late
nineties early two thousands, at this amazing crew of skateboarders,
which included Michelle Pizzell, who would go on to launch
Anti Social Skate Shop, and she's just like she's a connector.
She just makes things happen, so many positive things. And
(29:32):
we had this zcene called Idlewood, which was actually came
out I think was it two thousand and seven. A
little bit later, we were all like riding motorcycles because
we wanted to access the skate parks all around the
Lower Mainland. So the zine is kind of like this
skateboard motorcycle road trip crazy publication. It's so much fun.
(29:54):
It was just a really fun to contribute to. And
I think the first couple issues I had a column
which is like a women's skate history column back then,
which is on the basis for all this fun today.
But yeah, I really am grateful to her, Like, yeah,
I met her in I guess ninety seven and she
was still in high school and I was in university,
(30:16):
and she had this crew that I kind of adopted
and had a lot of fun with them. Yeah, zines
were just this fun outlet and they're tactile and they're
not gonna disappear, like it's really important to preserve them
if you've got them, and share them. And yeah, no copyright.
Usually you can just photocopy and send it off to
(30:37):
your friend. And just the antithesis to other magazines that
are dependent on ads and content and they can use
that as a justification for excluding women, which has happened
over and over. Speaking of Villa Villa Cola, there was
for a while in trans World, I because in two
(30:58):
thousand and four every second issue they were supposed to
have this two page Villa Villa color feature and I
think it lasted four issues, and then Laurie was told
we have to give room to ads. We can't afford
those two pages dedicated to girls.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
We have more pages to flip in the zcene.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
We'll be right back after this break.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
You said to yourself, like you had to get through
a little bit of anger through this book, And as
someone I can relate so much to that, especially because
I've had to sit through meetings where it's like what
wasn't said was the problem or what was said was
the problem, and there's an accountability that feels so absent.
How did you work through your anger and writing this
(31:56):
book and creating the archive project. Yeah, it's been.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
A funny journey because, like I think right at the
beginning kind of referenced this experience where like I've taken
a break from skateboarding, I've returned to it in my
early forties. I'm at the skate park chatting up this guy,
skate Dad. He's got his daughters there practicing, and just
like making small talk like oh, you know, stretching, wearing reskards,
(32:22):
blah blah blah, and then just turning to me and like,
you know, when I was skateboarding, learning your skateboard in
the nineties, there were no girls, and like I just
told them about my crew Michelle Bizelle back in the
early nineties, like not far from this guy, and I
just was like shocked. I was like, and he told
me like, girls didn't start skating until like the Battle
(32:44):
of Women's Battle of the Barracks. I was like, that's
like what they didn't start and like and I kind
of realized after a while, he's got this standard of
what skateboarding is. You are not a skateboarder until you
can accomplish something on par with what he can accomplish.
That that is the golden standard. So if you're yeah,
(33:05):
just pumping around, you know, practicing kickflips on the flat, like,
you are not a skateboard So I've that's what I
kind of realized, Like there's still these weird rules of
like who gets to define who's a skater, who's authentic?
And it's just boring. It's just it's just infuriating.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It's like, is this for real?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
We still talking about this that's so eighties? So boring eighties?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
It is really boring. So what we're going to take though,
to move beyond that? Like just narrative, Yeah, what's it
gonna take for us to get there?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Just this a new generation that never had to go
through that dialogue. It just like that it was never
never talked about.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah, it was super disappointing, and so that kind of
like prompted me, like this person legitimately doesn't think there
were women skateboarding before you know, Tony nineteen. So yeah,
I got to work and started putting down my evidence,
breaking breaking up myths and stories and lies. It was motivating.
(34:12):
It's good, it's good to be angry. But at the
same time, I realized if people are gonna like listen
to me and new generations of men, like, that's not
how I'm going to get my message across through anger.
So it I'm trying to come at a place of
like opportunity for someone to learn and to learn new things.
(34:35):
And but I needed that proof of I needed the stories,
I needed the zines. That's really helpful me helping me
because now there's no denying it. And this is this
brings me great joy because I tag every single photo
on that archive and quite meticulous about the tag the
naming of it. So if you're like, say a dude
(34:58):
googling a name of escape Bark from nineteen seventy eight,
like Carson City, California ninety said, you're gonna get a
photo of a woman's skateboarder because I have, like I've
just pummeled the internet. It's like oversaturated it. So now
those are the Googles Google images that are gonna pop
(35:18):
up for you. It brings me such a joy.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
We thank you for your service so much. So I
love it. There's room in skateboarding. We have historians and archivists.
Now you know, Ted Barrow is doing an incredible job
really using a framework that's never quite been brought in
talking about the materiality of skateboarding and the intersection of
those land planners and architects and just again the bigger
(35:43):
societal context of what's occurring and how skateboarding just kind
of intersected with that. And I think the structure of
your book is really interesting and really incredible. How you're
able to move through it in a really unique way.
What inspired you to kind of create this storytelling that
you were doing, and how are you doing it through
the different like layers if you will.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Yeah, So the intention wasn't to do like a traditional timeline,
and also it's not intended to be like a Who's who,
because you know, I've I've got the website for that.
That's I can populate bios and sort of some statistics
contest wins on the website. That's a great place for
it to go. But I wanted it to be a
bit more accessible and readable. And yeah, my editor encouraged
(36:28):
me to do first person, to kind of talk through
my journey of anger to maybe a bit more contentment
and optimism of it. So I go through this journey,
and I also talk about how as I connect with
more of these women, because like, I had no intention
of interviewing anybody, Like I like research, I like writing.
(36:50):
I am a hermit, I'm a super nerd. But I realize,
oh my god, I have to reach out because there's
literally no interview on Casey's apart for example, a skater
in the eighties who was on like SMA and just
such a cool person. So I had to be bold
and reach out. So the reader is gonna come along
(37:11):
on this journey. And how I go about doing that,
you know, my various beeps with like Tony Hawk, and
but like, how I get through that and come to
a place of peace? Yeah, I try to keep it entertaining,
but there are so there are also some darker sides
(37:32):
to this story. I do get into me too stories.
You know, the nineteen seventies is portrayed as some golden
era of skateboarding, but there is a dark side, and
more and more women are coming forward with some of
their experiences, inspiring other women of that generation to talk
things through. Yeah, so I get into some dark stuff,
(37:55):
but like, I'm just not going to shy away from
anything because honestly, like I am a rogue librarian, I
am not bound to anybody, Yeah, which is really freeing.
Like I'm up north in Canada, like I'm not even
I'm not even in the heart of it. Sometimes people
think I live in la but no, and maybe that's
to an advantage because I haven't a been disconnected. So
(38:18):
I felt like I could. I just talked pretty freely
about things and yeah, and tried to find threads to
weave through and talk about history, talk about creating historical context,
the problems with archival silence when only like one story
one you know, pro skater who got all the sponsors
and one all the contests, like it's only his story
(38:40):
that gets told in the history books. So yeah, really
trying to challenge that Yeah, I had a pretty good,
pretty good time and made some amazing connections with these
women who are now like my own mentors, like showing
me how to be as I get older and you know,
hitting menopause. It's around the corner, like, yeah, they're just
(39:01):
like they're so incredible and they have all these stories
to tell and not necessarily like the big names like
like Carabeth, Like there's just such a diverse range of
stories and people who have different talents like organizing you know,
meetups and contests and zines, not necessarily champions Olympic skateboarders.
(39:23):
But uh yeah, so I had a good time and
I hope the readers enjoy it, and uh yeah check
it out.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Where can we find your book? Where should we be
buying your book?
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Tell us, Oh, technically you should go through your local
indie bookstore. They can easily bring it in for you.
Your local library. You can suggest a purchase, but I
should do a plug. If you're more of a visual person, listeners,
please do me a favor if you could check out
Unfinished Skate Film. So At Unfinished Skate Film. This is
(39:58):
the efforts of Pam Riddle. My so back in two
thousand and one to two thousand and four, she accumulated
a crap ton of interviews of like all the legends
and like even some of the most elusive skateboarders like
Lori Rigsby No One she never talks about skateboarding, you know,
Saysha Clark, Anita Testenson, Stephanie Person, Like, oh my gosh,
(40:21):
Patty Nickee rest in peace, Ellen O'Neil, like she gathered
these incredible stories and all of this footage, and of
course back in the day, back in two thousand and four,
she could not get support or funding for her documentary.
And she's trying again, you know, twenty years later, and yeah,
Lisa's in there, like, oh my god, it is so glorious.
(40:44):
So I've actually seen the bulk of the film and
it's amazing. She needs support, like this is Netflix quality
kind of documentary. Someone needs to jump up and just
step up and help her, because it is killing me
that this footage is not out there. I really really
want this. Yeah done. So, yeah, unfinished skate film. Do
(41:09):
yourself a favor. If you're more of a visual person,
check it out and give her some love. Pam Riddlemeyer,
you're doing good. Work also for other visual options. You
can check out your archive. Tell the listeners a little
bit about that as well. Real quick, sure, Yeah, Women's
Skatehistory dot ca A. And it's kind of organized into decades,
(41:31):
so nineteen sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties. I'm just getting into
the nineties and early two thousands because I really focused
on the earlier decades. And I'm up to like three
hundred and fifty plus bios now from all around the world.
I'm finding like the national champions of like Brazil and
the Philippines in Mexico from back in the seventies, you know,
(41:55):
shining light on them, and any footage or photos or
interviews I put it there. And it is just like ongoing.
I'm relentless, I'm obsessed anytime I find something new, like,
I just at it all the time, and then starting
to create like new bios as well. It's just ongoing.
I love it as so much fun because it's winter
(42:17):
right now and it's raining and dark and miserable, and
I need to stay connected somehow. And I'm really fortunate
because like having the Instagram account as well, I do
have this sort of mini nerdy community where people are
looking out for me now and like sending me scans
of zines and you know, different pictures that I may
not have seen. So it's been a real collaborative effort.
(42:39):
Now it's like kind of snowballing. It was originally just
like me solo being just crazy psycho librarian, but now
it's for Yeah, people are helping out, which is really fun.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Crazy psycho erbe librarian for those that are listening, if
you're younger and feel intimidated by a zine or don't
have act just to it, can you encourage some listeners
about like just the power of making your own zine
and the simplicity of it.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Definitely. Yeah, it's like you can make it whatever you want.
You can put like ridiculous horoscopes in it, recipes, photos,
your rants, your letters, artwork.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
It's just limitless.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
And uh, libraries collect zines. There are like designated zine
librarians who want a record because it's like it's tactile
and it some you know, bizarre librarian thirty years later
might stumble upon it and just like but as so
fascinating and it's just such a cool record, especially for
(43:42):
communities that have been kind of ostracized through the years
and uh yeah, there's no one telling them but they
can't do it because it's like DIY, just photocopy it,
share it with your friends, have a lot of fun,
and yeah, don't worry about what anyone thinks of it.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
It's not that hard to get published. You can do
it yourself. So I love that. And you know, we
have a whole community. If you create your zine, tell
us about it. We'd love to help promote it. We
need more people telling stories about women and gender expansive
skateboarding trure. We are here for it. It's almost the
end of the year. We're getting into the holiday end
of your wrap up feelings. Tell us about some of
(44:22):
the things that are in in twenty twenty six for you,
and some of the things that are out in twenty
twenty six.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Ah, twenty twenty six, it's gonna be so magical. What's in?
You know what I'm actually kind of hoping for. Like,
I've been consulted a few times on museums putting together
really cool skateboarding exhibits, and I'm happy to do that.
I'm really excited about that. But oh my gosh, I
(44:52):
would love just like more dedicated exhibits about you know,
maybe just women women's skateboarding. Yeah, like I want to
see that through. I want to just see yeah, more
broad perspectives, just more diversity, because I do sometimes worry
about those ebbs and flows, Like when there is sort
(45:13):
of an economic struggle, often the first groups of people
out to be ditched are you know, women, LGBTQ, two
spirit plus. Like it's it's a bit, it's a bit
nerve wracking. So I just hope that we don't resort
to that, that we just we dig deep into some
of those like roots of anarchy, you know, and use
(45:35):
our power and our community to just challenge what's going
on big picture where you know, political powers want us
to feel afraid, to feel i don't know, insecure, to
feel powerless, but we're not. And uh, We're just going
to keep getting creative, getting out in the streets doing
these fun things. Like I've never been to Wheels of Fortune.
(45:57):
I get to go to Wheels of Fortune for the
very first time. I'll be there talking it up. I'm
actually gonna do a little history session, maybe some PowerPoint,
I don't know. So there's gonna be some good times ahead.
I'm really, really excited. So that's that's in. Yeah, Wheels
of Fortune is in cool museum exhibits. That's happening. Those
(46:17):
are in those are in. Oh actually thanks to your podcast.
I love to hear that Massugu is back. Missu whu
oh Kamorro is back. Like I was. Yeah, also very
very worried because like the Olympic machine can really spit
(46:38):
out the young people who are I don't know, like
I don't know, disposable not they're not disposable. So that's out.
If someone makes anyone feel remotely disposable or insignificant or yeah,
without value to skateboarding as a community, like, that's out.
(47:01):
It's yeah, out of here. It's all about the love
and kindness and opportunity and having fun with your friends
and like yeah, so that kind of negative attitude, that's
ugly love it.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Okay, those are some good ins and outs I can get.
I can truly get behind all of that. I'm so
excited to see more of your work in twenty twenty six. Again,
I'll post all the links for everyone to really tune
in and get behind the archive. Go purchase the book.
It's a great gift for Christmas. I feel like it
can meet so many different people who maybe just haven't
(47:36):
been a skateboarder. But this is so much bigger than that,
and it's a really powerful book. Thanks exciting, so check
it out please. It's such an honor to have you
on our podcast. Thank you, all right everyone. That was
another episode of good Luck with That with Natalie Porter.
You can find us on Instagram at good Luck Pod
(47:56):
and we'll be here next week recording.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Good Luck with That is an iHeart women's sports production
in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
We are your hosts Ashley Rayfield, Dora of Aspinzelo's, and
Alex White. Our executive producer is Jesse Katz. Produced by
Tarry Harrison, Daniel Goodman and Grace Views.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Listen to good Luck With That, a skateboarding podcast, on iHeartRadio, app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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