The Mother Wound Feat. Slumflower

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Speaks to the planet.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I go by the name of Charlamagne of God and
guess what, I can't wait to see y'all at the
third annual Black Effect Podcast Festival. That's right, We're coming
back to Atlanta, Georgia, Saturday, April twenty six at Poeman
Yards and it's hosted by none other than Decisions Decisions,
Mandy B and Wheezy. Okay, we got the R and
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Woman of All Podcasts with Saray Jake Roberts. We got

(00:22):
Good Mom's Bad Choices. Carrie Champion will be there with
her next sports podcast and the Trap Nerds podcast with
more to be announced. And of course it's bigger than podcasts.
We're bringing the Black Effect marketplace with black owned businesses,
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Speaker 3 (00:45):
Once upon a time, there was a good old traditional housewife.
She cooked, she cleaned, cared for her children and the
man of the house, and of course she didn't talk back.
She was both obedient and soft by nature. She was
a good woman who always made good choices.

Speaker 4 (01:02):
We're good mom's bad choices to single mom, who said,
but the patriarchy shared all their bad choices and found
out they were so bad after all. We're experts. Over
chairs and your new bestie, sit back and do the d.

Speaker 5 (01:14):
I can do.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
A welcome back to good Mom's bad Choices. I'm Erica
and I'm Mela. Happy Wednesday, bitch is Happy motherfucking hump Day.
Happy motherfucking hump Day, you guys. I'm wearing our merch
if you guys haven't checked out our merch, and we
have our blackest fuck mom a's fuck finest fuck merch.

Speaker 6 (01:36):
It actually recently went viral, So if you guys haven't
grabbed yours, grab it quick. It's going quick, it's going
it's flying off the shelves.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
It's it's very chic, it's very if you know black.
You can wear it with like a silky like skirt.
You can wear your jeans, you can wear sweats, you
can cut off the bottom, you can tie like me,
you can snatch your waist.

Speaker 6 (01:57):
This is for the black moms. But we're gonna bring
something more diverse.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
To the non blacks moms.

Speaker 6 (02:05):
We're inclusive. This one was an exclusive job for the
black moms. But you know what we're working on. We're
cooking something and don't worry, we're gonna include you to.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
And we have we have black aunties, so for the
Black Aunties, we also have a version of this of
this shirt. Yes, Hi, Hi, how are you? I'm great.
I feel like we haven't been here in a minute.
I know it's early in the morning, it is. It
is eight thirty two am in LA and we are
up recording early because we are responsible women. Also because

(02:35):
we're interviewing someone from the UK.

Speaker 6 (02:38):
Someone we've been waiting to interview for a long time.
Had nails, I could like you run a budget no anymore.

Speaker 4 (02:44):
But we're interviewing someone from the UK that we have
been It's been on our radar for a long time.
We've been chatting in the DMS for a while now
and I'm just so excited to have her on. Without
further ado, I would like to introduced Shadira Egaru, Sunday
Times best selling Arthur number one best selling author aka

(03:07):
the slum Flower.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 7 (03:12):
I've been wanting to come on this podcast for such
a long time. I am not a mother at the moment,
but I do have a mother who made some choices
that might be described as bad choices, but I empathize
with her, and I recognize that even though I'm not
a mother yet, I'm also a woman, and I can
see that women have to make tricky choices every day

(03:35):
just to survive. So it must be even harder making
those difficult choices while having children to take care of.
So I intend to navigate this episode with grace, but
also to really tackle matters that have affected me by
having a mother who I've been affected by.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
Well, first of all, thank you for saying that, and
also I feel like you are a mother. You're a
mother to a lot of women who look up to
you and look to you for advice and look to
you to like set them straight because bitches be tripping.
I am bitchous. I really appreciate sometimes when I'm looking
at your at your videos and you're looking straight at me,
because if you if you look on Shader's Instagram, all

(04:14):
of her all of her videos are very like cut
close looking straight into your soul, and she's like talking
to me and telling me all these things that I'm
doing wrong, and I'm like, she's right, she's than me.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
How does she know?

Speaker 6 (04:28):
Everybody, every every woman has a season of dumb bitchness.
But don't worry, you too, can heal? You know, everybody
has a season, just like everybody gets the colder the
flu once a year. Every woman has a hard season
of dumb bitcheousness. And the hope is that you take
the immunization and you get smarter, and that you won't.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
You'll sell lifetime.

Speaker 6 (04:47):
You'll stop being a dumb bitch. You know, you won't
keep getting the chicken pox. You just get them those
one time. You won't keep getting the fucking you know,
the thing that you shouldn't get. You're gonna stop playing
with the guy who burns you. But you know, sometimes
women need to hear over and over and over again,
and that's are you come in.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
So thank you very much for you, so really thank you.

Speaker 7 (05:04):
I really appreciate you calling me a mother, even though
I haven't physically birthed a child, because I do feel
like the work I do takes on a mothering role.
I definitely and deeply enjoy being in a position and
a role and a career that involves me mothering women
through their decisions. And what I mean by mothering women
through their decisions for those who might not be familiar

(05:24):
with my work is outside of me being a Sunday
Times number one best selling author. I also have a
podcast called The slum Flower Hour, and on the slum
Flower Hour podcast, I use it as a space to
directly speak to women about the realities of what it
involves to love men. The issue that I've found that
women are struggling with is that they value men more

(05:47):
than they value being respected, and that leads to a
plethora of issues. Whether it's men ghosting you and that
triggering you into having a mental breakdown, whether that's women
choosing men over their children, whether that's women leaving their
degrees and their work and their passions to follow a man.
Behind all of this validation and focus that is placed

(06:08):
on men, I use the Slumflower Hour podcast as a
site to dismantle that and provide women with actionable and
applicable tools to change that starting from now. I'm not
someone that likes to deal with the fluffy sort of
like woohoo. I think manifestation is powerful, but I believe
in taking action. You can sit from day in and

(06:29):
day out trying to manifest a man or, you can
make applicable and impactful changes to yourself and your environment
that will change the kind of atmospheres you're in, It
will change the kind of men you're around, and it
will change how you talk to men, and all of
those factors do have an impact on the outcome of
what your relationships with men end up looking like. And

(06:50):
so I like to consider myself very intellectual but motherly
at the same time, I think I'm like the older
sister who will pull you to aside and tell you
the things that maybe Mum didn't tell you because Mom
is maybe still in her pick me phase.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Do you guys use the phrase pick me over in La?

Speaker 4 (07:06):
Yeah, we do. We're very with the pigmies. Yes, they're
still They're still live and.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, it's still that large.

Speaker 6 (07:12):
There's a very live and well tribe of picknies here
in America.

Speaker 7 (07:17):
We empathize with the pigmies because deep down pick mees
want to be loved and they see no way of
being loved outside of themselves bending for men's approval. But
the fallacy here that I wish women would recognize is
that the more you bend yourself for a man's approval,
the less men respect you, and you don't actually yield
any success from doing that. What you get at the

(07:37):
end of it, if you make it to the end alive,
is resentment and time that you're never.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Going to get back. Time is the most valuable thing
we have as women.

Speaker 6 (07:47):
Girl, I've seen so many women, like my mom included,
just wastes so much time, so many talented, powerful women
that just give the fucking power because we've been just
brain and believing like our worth is so deeply tied
to our relationship status. And it's crazy, Like smart women,

(08:07):
powerful women, women I look up to, and I'm like,
how the fuck did you get this fucked up? All
for the love of a man, all for the all
for the just to say, I'm married, I have a boyfriend,
I'm kept. I really do appreciate like you're in your
like straight to the point, no sugar coated bullshit, because
I think women like need that. You know, we've been

(08:28):
kind of jipped into this idea that we need men
and we need relationships to be that like, to be valued,
and it's so fucked up when I was reading through
some of your book. It kind of reminded me, have
you heard of a Have you read bell Hooks, The Communion,
The Female Search for Love? It's like the modern time
version of that, And I like, I've been reading. They

(08:49):
always make fun of me because it's like withered. I've
been reading it for like a year, but it takes
so much I have to really pay attention on like
highlighting shit, because it's truly like dissects how deeply women
have been fucking brainwashed and how we are conditioned and
programmed and like domesticated from birth to kind of put
men first and put them on a pedestal and forget

(09:11):
about ourselves. And I was just reading your bio and
they were like feminists, and I was like, it's so crazy,
like are we modern feminists including us? But it's just
like no, I just went equal rights and to like
you loved actually and not like theoretically, I'm wondering, like
and even that word sorry, ok, I.

Speaker 7 (09:31):
I was just gonna say, even that word feminist really
stands out to me because some people describe me as
a feminist. I describe myself as a feminist, but there
are people who disagree with me describing myself as a
feminist because a lot of my politic and practice revolves
around the idea that men need to open their wallets
and give us their money. I can't imagine laying with
a man and he's not making my life any better.

(09:53):
The reason why some women hear that and think, well,
this isn't feminist is because the foundational idea of feminism
is rooted in the idea of us working towards equality
with men, and you know, one size fits soul, fairness
for all. For me, I believe that women are far
and forever above men. We can never be equal to men.

(10:15):
We're superior to them, and it's okay to acknowledge that
trying to equalize yourself to men is you actually downgrading
yourself to a level that stunts your own growth and
is an insult to your divinity as a woman. So
I do believe as a woman you can be feminist
and also ask men for things and not feel like
this man is entitled to stuff from you, because that's

(10:37):
where I noticed a lot of women struggle with asking
for things. I think it's okay to ask men for
things given that we live in a world where men
feel no fear about asking us for some pussy. They
feel no fear about asking us for our number without
even having introduced themselves done anything to impress us. You
approach a stranger and you expect that woman to give
you her personal contact details because you like the way

(10:59):
her boobs bound.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Is everybody okay?

Speaker 4 (11:03):
It's that's that's so true? Is that men do They don't.
They really don't have any sort of hang up when
it comes to to beginning the relationship already asking for shit.
Whereas women, we do, we have, we we resist. We
don't want to appear like we don't want to appear
like a pick me, even if everything that we're doing
is giving pick me. We don't want to ask for

(11:27):
especially financials. I mean for me that I've always I
was just having a conversation yes day with my friend.
I was like, I think that I've just the energy
that I've put out in the world, in this space
is not that of I need to be taken care
of by a man. And I don't know. I think
a lot of women that are sometimes I battle with
this word alpha female, but alpha females I think experience

(11:54):
this often of like men not thinking that they need
anything and so there for it's not offered and so.
And also the alpha female their ego not allowing them
to even fix their mouths to even ask for anything. Yea,
And I think a lot of that. I know that
I resonate with that. I've never been a woman that's
been like flute out and well, I've been flewed out

(12:16):
one time and it didn't go well for me. I
got dry humped and I had to escape the country.
I had to leave the country. But that's another story.
I find that whether you are but I find that
even whether you're alpha female or you're not, asking for
what you need, especially when it comes to finances, is

(12:39):
really tricky for women, including myself. And I don't know
where that I think I could say for me it
comes from I've come from a long line of strong
women that didn't ask for shit. But those long line
of women that didn't ask for shit were suffering. They've
been suffering. I look at I look at you, at
my mom. She's really successful, but it's always been on

(13:00):
her like there's been no one to come there's been
no man, even though she has a partner, there's been
no man to come in and save her financially, ever,
and I see myself kind of going down that same
road in ways, and I guess I'm curious, like what
do you have, Like how what advice would you give
to the alpha female who struggles with that, who has

(13:22):
her own right, like she can provide for herself. And
I think that's a lot of times too, why we
make these exceptions for men and are like, well, I
don't really need that because I already make this, so
I don't really need that. Do you think that that's
true in your opinion? Or should the alpha female who
has her own still have these expectations And if so,
how do we go about asking.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
That is an incredible question.

Speaker 7 (13:44):
And as an alpha female myself, I also don't like
that phrase because the word alpha female or alpha male
has so many stereotypes and connotations attached to it. But
I really resonate with your definition of being an alpha female,
where just like you, we're both successful women. We have
come from a lineage of women who have managed to

(14:05):
do it by themselves, whether they suffered or not, in
silence or out loud. For me, being an alfa woman
now looks like the fact that I have a career
that I have sustained by myself. I have an income
that allows me to live a lifestyle that is comfortable, beneficial,
and exciting for me. So when it comes to men
coming into my life, what's interesting is that I'm of

(14:27):
the belief that if a man's going to be in
my life and he's occupying a space that could be
considered intimate to a certain degree, he needs to be
making my life easier. Just because a woman is able
to sustain herself doesn't mean that there are not areas
that could be made easier. And what that looks like
is if you're going to be here hanging around enjoying

(14:49):
the exciting energy of talking to a sexy woman who
we both know is out of your league, then you're
going to need to pay your ties. You need to
pay your dues here, so you can pay my you
can send.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Me cash for shopping.

Speaker 7 (15:04):
And I know this sounds ridiculous and unrealistic, but to
give context here, about maybe two years ago I decided
to become a dominatrix. I still consider myself quite early
in that journey. But what's very fascinating from what I've
noticed is it's not about asking men to do things
for you. It's about telling them to do it for

(15:24):
you with the belief and the faith that they're going
to do it. It's almost like that man should feel
flattered that you would even think he's capable enough to
do that for you, because depending on what you've asked
that man to do for you, it implies that he
has the ability. So if you've asked the man, hey,
I've got this shelf that i've ordered and I really

(15:46):
need it to be built, can you help me, he's
going to feel flattered that you think he can help him.
Of course, if he loves you, or if he likes you,
he's gonna want to help you. Or if you say
to a guy, it would really turn me on if
you brought me this bag. If he likes you, and
if it's within his means, he's going to do it.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Now. The issue here that.

Speaker 7 (16:03):
A lot of women worry about or encounter is this
idea of, well, if a man is financially providing for me,
then doesn't this mean that I'm trapped and I owe
him things? But the issue with that sentiment that I
find is if you have your own money, the man
is not doing anything that you can't already do for yourself.

(16:24):
He's just temporarily alleviating that weight. If he decides that
he doesn't want to do it anymore, you're not going
back to zero. You're going back to what you were
already doing by yourself. For me as well, the reason
why I'm so hell bent on this particular idea that
a man needs to be making himself financially useful to
me is because we live in a world where women
are already socioeconomically disadvantaged, and for me, I've had to

(16:47):
sit and ask myself what's going to make it worth
it for me to lay with a man, especially if
that could result in me being pregnant, or if I
decide I'm going to marry him, what's going to make
it worth it? Because men can be a bit gross
sometimes that they can smell or if they like shape
their beds, the hair clippings and the sting. You know,
when a man enters your feminine space, you can tell
that a man has been here. So for me, when

(17:09):
I ask myself, what's going to make all of that worfit?
The man needs to be making my life financially easier. Now,
there could be another argument that, well, a man who
is able to pay all of your bills and take
care of you and send you money for shopping and
fly you wherever you.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Want to go. Those are only the one percenters.

Speaker 7 (17:28):
That is propaganda that poor men have created to scare
women out of having high standards. And also, I don't
even consider it a high standard to expect a man
to provide because the role has been imposed on women
that we are here to be the primary caretakers of children.
We are here to not just carry children, but squeeze
them out of a tight hole. Shout to a type pussy,

(17:50):
but squeeze them out of a tight hole. And then
on top of that, we also most times, especially in
the black community, we end up being.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
The primary providers as well.

Speaker 7 (17:59):
So for all is able to not just bear a child,
grow the bones of that child in her body, push
that child out, breastfeed the child, sustain the child, raise
the child, and financially provide. You're telling me that it's
too much for a man to financially provide, it's not
too much. And the idea that they only exist in
the one percent propaganda because actually the one percent we're
referring to is billionaires. A man doesn't need to be

(18:21):
a billionaire for him to be able to provide for
you himself, and if you decide to start with him
a family. There are men who are making upwards six
figures who can more than provide enough for you himself
and the women that he might be cheating on you with.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
But are those men okay providers? Yes? What about the
what about what else they provide outside of the financials,
because like, you can have that, but then you don't
have it. You don't have a man that is, you know,
an emotional support for you. You don't have a man
that communicates that, that provides these other I think valuable
things as well, because especially because as I can provide

(19:01):
these things for myself, So yes, why so at what
point does the finance is not even actually matter? Because
I could buy the bag myself, so you could buy it,
and then I didn't pay for it, and I say
a thousand dollars right cute? But then when I'm going
through something and I need support and I need someone
to help give me guidance and you don't all that

(19:24):
and you don't have you don't have that quality, then
what does it? What does it mean?

Speaker 6 (19:28):
Because I like, do you not believe that there's such
thing as a man who has like this the financial
stability to support in that way and also the emotional
maturity and capacity to support in that way as well.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
Do you think that that is just?

Speaker 6 (19:43):
I mean, I know that we've been told that that's
just basically you're going to find a unicorn.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
It's a rarity. It's very rare.

Speaker 6 (19:49):
But I I'm wondering if that's what you believe, because you, like,
do you think that's generally the case you're talking to me, Yeah,
oh like that, Oh you're talking about that that I
can't find both like so that yeah, that coexists.

Speaker 4 (20:02):
No, I think that they both exist, But I think
that I think they do. I think it's rare. I
think that a lot of times men have put so
much pressure in being providers that they they haven't put
any attention into how to be emotionally available, how to
and that a lot of times they don't even know
themselves because they've been put into this workforce of I

(20:22):
need to provide, I need to provide that they have
no connection to their their who they are, their body,
even like especially sexually, Like there's a lot of trauma,
a lot of dysfunction that happens. There's a lot I've met,
I've had men that it could provide, even like my
baby daddy, Like is he emotionally mature? No, I could

(20:45):
probably still be there right now and be having my
rempaid and have a g wagon and do all the
things and be but and and have my family together.
But am I emotionally provided for and for me? Like
I think for you? Know, I agreed with you to
an extent, But I also know that like the emotional

(21:09):
part of the relationship and the connection and the friendship
to me is more sustainable than anything a man could
provide me. And And I'm not trying to like overshadow
like blanket your what you feel, because I do have
questions about yeah, like what about the men that are
not financial providers right or can't or maybe don't make

(21:31):
as much as you, but are going to cook you
meals every single day when you wake up? Are going
to cook or when the moment you wake up you
have fucking coffee on your bedside, breakfast is made, trash
is taken out, sounds like the chef and the nanny
check check. I'm like, is that is that something that

(21:51):
you would ever compromise that part of your belief system
for or is the financials number one for you? Is
that a value you?

Speaker 1 (22:01):
That's a beautiful question.

Speaker 7 (22:03):
And to address your main concern about the emotional aspect
of having a provider partner, what I found in my
experience of being around men is I've had technology and
accept that emotional territory.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Is not men's strength.

Speaker 7 (22:17):
Like if I want a support animal, I'm better off
getting an animal.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
I'm obviously not.

Speaker 7 (22:22):
I'm not trying to say that that's what you're looking for,
that's what you prefer, but it's the sarcasm of trying
to point at what's happening here where I think for
a lot of women, I don't think it's a mistake,
but I think that when we expect for men to
have the emotional insight that we do, it can feel
more disappointing for us. And this is why I believe

(22:44):
strongly in community. Like, for example, if I was dating
a man, or if I was partnered with a man
to enough of a degree where I feel impacted by
his behavior, one of my core beliefs is I don't
really believe in crying to a man about how badly
he's treating you. I believe in taking those emotions, processing
it maybe with your female friends or with someone that
you trust that it's not that man. And by the
time you've processed it, when you've come to him to

(23:06):
address the concerns, you're coming at it from a very
level headed and self controlled stance. Now, when it comes
to the emotions, I just think that that's not men's strength.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
And I don't.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
Necessarily mean like, yes, I saying to day like you're not.
I would hope that the person you're laying next to
you can have that they can be your friend and
they're not just oh.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Of course, at the bare minimum.

Speaker 7 (23:33):
I mean a man who's taking care of me financially,
he's not someone that hates me.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Clearly.

Speaker 7 (23:39):
I think I get what you're saying, though, because oftentimes
when we look at providers as a concept, it is
this sort of mechanical thing of he's simply providing the money,
there is no connection outside of that, when actually, in
my experience, the men who have provided for me are
men who have been very fond of me while things
were good. Emphasis on while things were good, because men

(24:00):
can switch up on you, and they will at some
point and it's not your fault. It's just a man
is going to man. But to answer the second point
of your to answer your second portion of your point
where you were talking about, what about if a man
hasn't got money, but he's a great cook and he's.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Just there for you.

Speaker 7 (24:15):
This is where the roster comes in, because one man
can't be everything for you and I this is the
part where I actually agree that maybe we are putting
too much pressure on men by expecting them to be everything.
So how about we diversify the roles that way one
man doesn't feel pressured to be everything. But when I
say that that, I do get some pushbacks sometimes from

(24:35):
men and women because it's this whole idea of like,
you know, people do value monogamy, and people value that
intimacy and that sacredness of one to one relationship. And
I get that, but it's a man. And for me,
I've kind of trained myself to acknowledge and accept because
acceptance is key and everything right acknowledged, and I've accepted

(24:57):
a man is only going to operate at such a highlight,
like there's only so much a man can do for me.
Because even when it comes to money, like money isn't everything,
but love isn't everything either.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
That's why I feel like I need both. And for me,
it's like.

Speaker 7 (25:11):
There's various features of men that I come across in
different guys, and I'm like, oh, I like that about him,
but I like this about this guy.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
So maybe the guy.

Speaker 7 (25:19):
Who isn't got any money for me, but he can
do my do you guys have vinted in the States
or like Deep Hop Yeah, like Pashmark, Yeah, So like
he can do my Poshmark parcels for me, because that's
you know, he wants to be useful to me, and
that's endearing that he wants to do that for me.
Another guy who's got money, but you know what, we
don't have that kind of intimacy. I don't think I

(25:39):
see him as a boyfriend. But if you want to
do stuff for me, I'm more than willing to accept
your help in that way. Maybe another guy who's connected
in the industry and he's just like an angel for
me in the industry, where he just maybe I'm his
plus one for certain events and he gets me in
certain rooms or he speaks my names and rooms that
I'm not in yet. So I like to see men
as opportunity to improve my life, as opposed to seeing

(26:02):
men as a romantic, happy ending, because in the end, it's.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Still just a man. And I know that sounds.

Speaker 7 (26:11):
So bleak and so dull, and like, ah, what about
true love? And it's like it's a man. I mean,
then don't sit there long and about true love.

Speaker 4 (26:19):
I feel like that goes both ways.

Speaker 6 (26:21):
It's it's we're human, you know, we're human, and I
think we both, especially women, put so much into being
everything for men because the society puts a lot of
pressure on us to do that, Like we have to
be the prettiest, we have to suck the best dick,
you know, we have to be the sexiest. But we
also can't be too sexy. You got to be like
a conservative sexy. But you can't be a gold digger.
But you gotta be successful and you gotta like ask

(26:43):
for stuff and get stuff, but not too much stuff
because you have that their own, Like there's all these
things and if and if a guy looks at another bitch,
even though he's going to because there's a thousand beautiful bitches,
then suddenly we're like we're not enough, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 4 (26:56):
And I think vice versa.

Speaker 6 (26:57):
I think we all have to remove this idea that
humans are going to check off every fucking box, because
we're going to fuck it up at some point. We're
going to disappoint each other, you know, like I'm going
to do some ho shit. You're gonna fucking do some
ho shit, because you know, we're some hoes, because we're
human and we have like animalistic you know, eyes, We

(27:19):
have fucking eyes, and there's like desires and there's luss
And I think that especially women have been so deeply
programmed by like this fairy tale Disney fucking princess bullshit
that we're like I'm gonna be swept off my feet
and he's never gonna look at another woman again, and
we're gonna have a pig afence and he's gonna only
want to kiss me in the mouth, and we're gonna

(27:39):
get married and my hair is gonna be pretty and
it's like no, bitch, like yes.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
That could be possible.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
And there's gonna be other bitches.

Speaker 6 (27:46):
There's gonna be opportunities and check his phone, and there's
gonna be live you know, and like on both ends,
you know. But I think women fuck up, really, I
think men kind of have a more realistic idea that like, yeah,
I love you, bitch, but I'm gonna probably go to
the dr and find a bigger booty bitch, and I might,
you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
I always choose themselves. That's one thing I've learned from men.

Speaker 6 (28:10):
That's true, that's true, But they've learned to choose themselves
without guilt. And when we choose ourselves, there's so much
shame attached to it, and so you can't even choose
yourself in fucking peace. You know, men are just you're
choosing themselves, leaving their kids, not giving three funds because
there's no there's no emotion or energy attached to it
because of the patriarchy. But as women, it's like and

(28:31):
that's what we're even talking about about our show being
called Bad Choices, Like, I know you just said your
mom made some bad choices.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
But part of the.

Speaker 6 (28:37):
Reason we named our show Bad Choices is because some
of this shit is not bad.

Speaker 4 (28:41):
It's been we've been told it's bad.

Speaker 6 (28:42):
But sometimes what I need to do to choose myself
is not necessarily bad, and you have to kind of
figure out what that fucking means for you. And I
think women have been so long in this journey of
like this is what it looks like to be a
good girl, This is what looks like to be a
good wife and to be accepted, you know, Like, no, bitch,
guys want the girl who's you know, they want this
porn star, but they don't marry the porn star. But

(29:04):
they're cheating on you with the porn stars. So it's
like very confusing, you know. But I feel like women
need to like kind of wake up out of the
fucking fairy tale and realize, bitch, you know, let's have
some like realistic expectations for everybody else, for all parties involved.
Would you say your ideal relationship is like not monogamous.

Speaker 7 (29:28):
That's an interesting question because when I think about the
concept of an ideal relationship, I don't even know what
it is anymore. Like for me, I'm a very selfish woman.
I date men very selfishly. My ideal relationship is a
man who's just yes, Princess, are you sure? Are you
sure you don't want it in another color as well?

Speaker 4 (29:48):
Are you in a relationship right now?

Speaker 1 (29:51):
I'm not in a relationship at the moment.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
When when was the last time you're in a relationship
and how long was.

Speaker 7 (29:57):
I was talking about this today to a friend. Actually
the last relationship slash. Also the last guy I slept
with was in twenty twenty one, so you haven't had
sex and three years quite literally okay, celibate for okay, silent,
no dick, it is going to be clear.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
No, that's joint for you. I'm leding this for you. Please,
California to London.

Speaker 8 (30:25):
Hey for your girl's interesting, right, It's been three years
and it's not even I wouldn't even call it a
celibacy journey.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
I'm not celibate.

Speaker 7 (30:33):
It's just that I'm so aware of the reality of
men that I don't feel turned on by men unless
they give me a very good reason to be turned on.
And nowadays, what turns me on This is going to
sound so bad for lack of a better word, but
this is my truth. What turns me on is when
a man sends me money, Like I feel the moisture

(30:53):
between my legs, and a man sends me money, I'm like,
oh my god, it's go time you actually sent it.

Speaker 4 (31:03):
How did we get here? How did we get here?
I want to know about your childhood. I want to
know how what is who was baby Shadeira? What kind
of family dynamic did you grow up to to become
this feminist who wants men for checks and not for
any the reason I'm curious.

Speaker 6 (31:20):
I don't need to have sex for three years unless
you're really really best in the check, and even then
maybe not, probably not.

Speaker 4 (31:24):
I want to know what was your family dynamic growing up?

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Thank you for that question.

Speaker 7 (31:30):
So earlier on in this conversation, I touched on the
fact that I really empathize and understand my mother because
she made, in my opinion, bad choices, and the bad
choices I was referring to is growing up, I had
a severely controlling.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Mother and she was angry at me a lot.

Speaker 7 (31:48):
And now that I'm an adult and I'm old enough
to potentially be a mother, and I look at the
things that she was angry at a child for it's disproportionate.
It didn't make any sense to me that a mother
would be so angry at her child so controlling. The
punishment I would receive didn't match the thing that I did.
I've genuinely, in my experience and from my personal opinion,

(32:10):
growing up as a child, I felt like I was
in a very emotionally and physically abusive upbringing with my mother.
And as I get older and I start to speak
to more women who have become others, I'm joining the
dots and I'm recognizing that this is a woman who
had dreams, had passions, and societal programming and propaganda convinced

(32:35):
her to believe that she will find deep purpose and
meaning through having children and it will give her a
sense of identity that she doesn't need to create because
the children will give her identity. And so things were
all well and good when I was a baby, and
I didn't have much autonomy because I was just cute
and I relied entirely on her. But as I started
to develop complex thoughts, that was when my relationship with

(32:58):
my mother started to become more difficult. Where even though
I did my best to be such a good girl
like I was the exemplar child, aunties would look at
the way I'd behave and they would compliment and praise
my mother on what a good job she's done to
raise such an obedient daughter, when the reality is the
root of my obedience was fear of my mother coupled

(33:21):
with Nigerian culture, which is where I'm from from Nigeria,
Nigerian culture, which is incredibly patriarchal and misogynistic, the idea
that you must remain a virgin until you're married, the
idea that women are given punishments and are expected to
uphold accountability, but men are not necessarily raised the same way.

(33:42):
And as someone that was raising the household with two
younger brothers, I saw how that difference was in my
brother's relationship with my mom versus my relationship with my mom.
And I'm now in my sixth year of not speaking
to my mother, and I made that choice to disown
my mother, and it's something that I radically and deeply
stand by. A lot of people do preach the idea

(34:02):
of forgiveness, and even now that I'm in a headspace
where I've come to understand why my mother is the
way she is, I still don't forgive her, and that
has been very empowering for me to separate myself from her.
And so how this links into the way that I
approach my dealings with men is, to put it quite plainly,
if I can cut off my own mother, who is

(34:24):
the most important and the most foundational attachment I could
ever have in this lifetime, then what is a man
like my ability to walk away from men who make
me feel upset, or who are not of any use
to me, or who are lingering in my life longer
than they should is very a quick decision. And it's
not because I'm like, ooh, toxic, Oh, you can't be

(34:44):
grown up enough to have a conversation. It's more from
recognizing that people don't deserve to loiter in your life
if you recognize that they are bringing more harm than good.
And for me, cutting off my mother has allowed me
to protect myself from protect abuse because what I noticed
as a pattern is women who approach me with the

(35:05):
craziest of stories pertaining to things they've experienced at the
hands of men. More times than not, they had a
relationship with one of their parents that is abusive, and
they're probably still in contact with that parent. Most times,
it's the mother that they're in contact with who is
the abusive parent, and they're trying to find ways to
just force this foot into the shoe. You know, you're
really trying to make it work, and you're trying to

(35:26):
work around your mother, But in you absorbing that abuse
from your mother, you're still creating room for your body
to recognize abuse and see it as familiar. And I
know that it's not for everyone to cut their mother off.
Not everybody has the resources or safety, or convenience or
emotional strength to do so. But for anybody who might
be listening who is either considering cutting their mother off

(35:49):
or who has cut their mother off, I deeply salute you.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
It is the hardest.

Speaker 7 (35:53):
Decision any human being can make, and it was not
an easy decision. It From the age of seven, I
knew that I don't know my mom because she made
me feel so deeply hurt through doing things like imagine
you're a child doing something like forgetting to wash the
plates or just not following through on an order you've

(36:13):
given her, and you choose to stop speaking to her
in the same house you're living in for three days,
like my mum would physically ghost me. And as a child,
I didn't have enough brain cells to process this ghosting
as some sort of response to me doing something she
didn't like. I processed and understood it as I am
a bad child. I inherently believed that I was bad,

(36:34):
so I didn't associate my mother with peace and serenity
and safety. Anytime I was on my way home, I
felt like my body was physically producing the vital flight
symptoms of an increase in my heart beat, a sense
of feeling like I need to lie about something I
haven't even done yet because I know I'm in trouble.

(36:56):
That feeling of I feel like I'm in trouble, but
I don't know what I've done, but I feel like
I'm in trouble. Imagine feeling that every single day while
under the primary care of your mother. And my mother,
like I touched on earlier, it is also an awful woman.
And so my dad had no ability to protect me
from my mother because.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
Your parents were married, Yeah are they? Are they still married?

Speaker 7 (37:21):
No, not anymore, but like a twenty something year partnership
where my mother would exert that same dominion over my dad.
And I think it's interesting because my dad's are piscis
and my mom's Like on the Cancer Gemini Cast.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Twenty first of June.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
Girl, your mother is Jamala.

Speaker 7 (37:39):
Nold And what's interesting, right, is like, what's interesting is
that my dad is such a classic pieces like, with
all respects and love to my dad, and he noticed
about himself too, Piscey's men are not the men who
are going to fight back, like they kind of just
take it.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
No fine for me, so I had to.

Speaker 7 (38:04):
You know, I cut my own dad off for five
years and then it wasn't until the past maybe a
year ago plus, that I finally forgave him. But I
made him work for that forgiveness. With my mother, she's
not redeemable because she's actually not changed in any way.
And this is why it's hard, because it's like, I
think she is a good mother in the definition of

(38:25):
her version of good because she sacrificed herself for the
ability to be this like ever providing mother for her children.
In her definition, she's a good mother. But in my definition,
it's hard to say it because it doesn't sound very nice.
It doesn't feel nice to say either. But how I
see this is so I went to fashion school, right,

(38:46):
and you would spend hours, probably half a day, sewing
a garment, only to realize you've accidentally sewn it inside out.
Nobody is gonna come and say congratulations on sewing your
garment inside down. You still fit for the runway. You're
gonna have to understand it all and start again. And
this metaphor to me points to you could think you're
doing a great job as a mother, but sometimes the

(39:07):
damage is done. And when your adult children grow up
and decide they don't want to speak to you. And
it feels hard to say this because you're both mothers,
but I feel like it's important for you to hear
this from an adult child because you're one day going
to have adult children. But if your adult child has
decided to not speak to you, something has gone wrong
on your part as the parent, and that might be
hard to hear for mothers listening to this because I also,

(39:30):
at the same time, believe in the idea that we
should respect our mothers. They gave us life, and I
deeply do respect mothers, including my own mother. I respect
my mother enough to not cuss her out. I'd rather
cut her off than cuss her out because I respect her.
I respect my mother enough to even when I'm speaking
about her on a public domain like this, I like

(39:51):
I hold space for the reality that she was doing
what she thought was her best. But like I said,
with sow in that garment, you could spend twelve hours
sung a garment, but it's inside out. You have to
start again so for me, I feel like I'm the
outcome of you've sown the garment inside out, but you
refuse to start again because you've given all this time
to it and now you're like, well, I did my
best and you're gonna have to just deal with it.

(40:14):
I'm your mother, and it's like, you know what, there
are mothers who make that mistake, and unfortunately it's not redeemable.
And sometimes I feel bad for my mother. Not bad
enough to go and start talking to her because that's
harmful for me, but I feel bad for her knowing that, like, wow,
you're still alive, so you still have time to recognize
where you've gone wrong. But it's too painful to look

(40:34):
into where you went wrong, because if you start to
probe into where you went wrong as a mother, you
also have to probe into your own identity and what
went wrong in your upbringing, which means you have to
also look into what happened to your mother, and that
is a generational like it's like a generational layer of
trauma that you have to start unpacking. And most women

(40:57):
who were born in the sixties seventies, I'm not prepared
to do that because it's painful but it's not an excuse.
It's just like you're going to have to accept that
the outcome of you refusing to acknowledge that painful discomfort
is you losing your child. You losing your child while
they're still alive, and it's painful for both of us.
But I'd rather live with the pain of never speaking

(41:18):
to my mother again than to live with the pain
of having my mother in my life, because that's how
dangerous she is for my mental health and my well being.

Speaker 4 (41:26):
That's so powerful.

Speaker 6 (41:27):
I think a lot of times, as women or just
in general, we hear about women having daddy issues. We
always hear about women having daddy issues. But the mother
daughter dynamic is a very complex one, and it generally, yeah,
you're just supposed to love and respect your mother, but
there's sometimes there's this dynamic. And I remember thinking about
my dad like I know you see this shit, like

(41:48):
why aren't you saying anything, and thinking like he would
he would like disappear. He was trying to get out too,
but I couldn't leave, and I was like, damn this weak,
Like you can leave, I can't.

Speaker 4 (42:00):
But also just like this, the idea that.

Speaker 6 (42:06):
You you sometimes go into adult relationships allowing people to
diminish your character or talk down to you or whatever,
because that's the relationship you have with your mother, and
that's truly more the most formative and like sometimes the
niggas we date are actually reflecting our mothers, but we're
so busy thinking it's daddy issues that we're not really

(42:28):
thinking about, like, damn, how did my mom talk to me?
How did that build my self esteem? How does like
you know, and I'm still in a relationship with her
because me and my mom have had a complex relationship
and now it's much better, but it's taken a long time.
But back to what you said about, like most women
of a certain age don't even have the wherewithal to
start even peeling back the layers of what kind of

(42:50):
mother did I receive? And how is that affecting how
I'm parenting and how I show up because it's so painful,
Like they literally cannot do it. They would have rather
just not talk to their kid and be like it's
her and like sometimes it's cultural.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
It is cultural cultural.

Speaker 9 (43:04):
I'm high cultural cultural. You know it's cultural, but you know,
but I'm wondering hearing you say this, what along your
journey with this mother, because I'm always curious about that too.
We're all like particular women telling our business, you know,
on a public platform, something that we've you know, for

(43:25):
the most part, been told is bad, not to tell
your business, not to say anything, you know.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
Out of the outside of the box.

Speaker 6 (43:32):
But like what point in your growth in your being
raised that you said, you know what, I can't do
this shit anymore. And I'm good and I'm going to
stand on that. And I know what my family might
say about me, and I know what it's going to
look like and when people are going to tell me.
But I'm okay with like this boundary, even with this

(43:52):
person who's the closest to me, because I understand how
harmful that is to me, because I so I know
so many people children who will never make that decision
because of just the standard of the parent, you know,
the parent child dynamic. So I'm just wondering, what was
that moment for you, Like this is that important?

Speaker 1 (44:10):
That's a powerful question.

Speaker 7 (44:11):
And for me, the whole reason why I even have
a career now is because this whole thing started out
as my exit plan to get away from my mom.
I thought, you know what, Okay, it's the beginning of
the Do you remember, back before we had influencers, there
were bloggers, like fashion bloggers. I used to be a
fashion blogger. This is before influencers started to become an

(44:33):
established thing. So this would have been back in maybe
like twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen. I would have been in
my super early twenties, and back then weren't really getting
paid to do anything.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
But you get gifted like a shoe or a bag,
and you're like whaa major.

Speaker 7 (44:48):
And so as things started to slowly evolve, I started
to make a little bit of money here and there,
until one day I landed an added as campaign and
it was a billboard campaign and back then and added
that's paid me twenty five thousand pounds, and I was like,
this is the biggest money I've ever gotten in my life.
And that was when I was like, hmm, I'm twenty

(45:09):
two and I've just landed this added as campaign. I'm
not going to tell my mother how much I've made
from it, because from early on, once I started making
some money, I started to learn to not tell my
mom how much I'm making because she would financially abuse me.
And what I mean by the financial abuse is she
would make me buy things for her because she knew
I had money, and I wasn't in enough of a

(45:30):
position to say no because I'm living in her house.
And you know what it's like for anybody who's listening,
if you're living with somebody who is emotionally or even
physically slash both abusive, saying no it's not an option.
It's easier and more peaceful to just go along with it,
and that's how the abuse evolves. So for me, I learned, okay,
once I got this added as campaign, I'm gonna save

(45:52):
all of the money and that's going to be my
year's rent for wherever I'm going to move to. So
I was secretly booking viewings for flats with a state agents,
whispering on the phone to take these calls. And then
one day I found the flat which I'm still living
at now that I thought this is going to motivate
me to want to stay here, because it's a beautiful
one bedroom riverside apartment in a part of London that

(46:14):
I really like being in. And so once I signed
the papers to start renting the flat, it was after
I signed that I told my mother that I'm moving out,
and I got the most diabolical response from her. Initially
she pretended to be okay with it, but I knew
that it was genuine. And then a day later, I
got maybe like two hundred and fifty plus messages of

(46:36):
abuse from her via WhatsApp of her calling me all
the worst things. The one that stood out the most
to me that I'll never forget is she said to
me that she hopes that if I love someone, that
they never loved me back, and she hopes that if
I was to decide to become pregnant, she hopes that
I experienced complications so that I can see how hard
it is to be a mother. And after her saying

(46:57):
all of that, amongst two hundred and something the messages,
I knew that I'm done.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
I can't do this.

Speaker 7 (47:03):
And there's still things that I left behind at her
house that I haven't gone back to get because I
would rather say goodbye so designer amazing one of one
things that I've been gifted over the years, or that
I've bought with my money back in the day, than
to go back and face her. I've actually not seen
her face to face since I cut her off six
years ago, and for me, that decision to finally bite

(47:25):
the bullet came from first of all years of preparation
to even feel brave enough to do it, because any
person who is living in an abusive situation knows that
just leave is not that simple. You have to mentally
leave first and then you physically leave later. So what
mentally leaving first looks like is I started doing therapy
because I knew that something was wrong, but I kept

(47:48):
it a secret that I was in therapy because culturally
African mothers and I think it's a similar with Caribbean
parents as well, but there's this stigma attached to therapy.
The immediate response that you get from an African parent
when you tell them that you're in therapy, which is
the response I got from my mother, I was, so,
you're telling a therapist about me, which is interesting because
she kind of told herself by assuming that I'm going
to therapy because of her. It's like yeah, yeah, it

(48:09):
was literally out, yeah, like, girl, you're the reason I'm
paying sixty pounds per one hour therapy session. I spent
six years in therapy, and for the first maybe two
years of therapy, I was psyching myself up to leave,
and when I finally left, I felt really bad.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
I felt so guilty.

Speaker 7 (48:32):
I felt all of the feelings that any person who's
left their abuser would feel, the feeling of oh, my goodness,
like I've I've harmed. I've harmed the person who has
been psychologically harming me for all these years by removing
myself from their ability to harm me.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
But as time passed and.

Speaker 7 (48:52):
I started to experience more harassment from her, you know,
it was you know, because when you move out and
separate itself from an abuser, just because you've physically moved.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
The way doesn't mean that it's going to end.

Speaker 7 (49:01):
Like they will still be calling you to harass you,
whatever they can do to get into your head and
ruin your day. That was what my mother was doing
for years until this day. You know, she chooses Christmas
and Birthdays to try and rattle me. But I've become
so strong now where it doesn't affect me anymore in
the way that it used to.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
It's disappointing knowing.

Speaker 7 (49:23):
That my mother is never going to be in a
place where I'm going to get the apology that I deserved.
Because again, for my mother to even apologize to me.
She would need to first of all, accept that there's
something that she needs to be sorry for. And for
her to accept that there's something she needs to be
sorry for, she needs to believe that she's flawed. My mother,

(49:43):
according to her, has no flaws whatsoever. People who are
capable of emotionally harming their children in this way, they
don't believe that they're in the wrong. And so you
get to a stage as an adult child where you
start to understand your mother or whoever.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
The parent was did this to you.

Speaker 7 (50:01):
You genuinely start to understand them from a place of
this person does not have the capacity to operate at
the level of self awareness that I have developed from
therapy and from being accountable. So with that being kept
in mind, it will be ridiculous of me to sit
around waiting for her to one day just realize all
of the things she did wrong as a mother. That's

(50:22):
not going to happen. And so I've had to make
my own peace with that. And it's hard, because you know,
I've had well meaning people, both my age and elders
say to me, you know, one day you're going to
regret not speaking to your mom. You know, time is
going your mom's getting older, And I find that really
hard to hear, because people don't say to mothers who

(50:42):
have pushed their children far enough away from them to
not speak to them anymore, that one day your kid
might die while you're alive, and you're not going to
get to be able to tell your kids all the
things that you're sorry for. You know, a lot of
the weight and emphasis is placed on the adult child,
and it's deeply painful to hear that. I think another
thing that's really hard to hear or really hard to
come to terms with, is you know, like I don't

(51:05):
wish my mother any ill, but you know, one day
I might get a phone call of the inevitable bad news,
and I will have to live with the choice that
I made to not speak to her. And I don't
know how I'm going to navigate that when it happens.
But what I do know is that I made this
choice for a reason, and my relationship with my mother

(51:27):
is personal and unique to me. So however I decide
to grieve that, whether it's me grieving the absence of
our relationship or me grieving her not being on this
planet anymore, depending on whoever whichever one.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Of us goes first.

Speaker 7 (51:40):
Whatever I'm grieving, it has to come from a place
of acceptance in knowing that I made this decision to
protect myself. And weirdly enough, even though cutting off my
mother for her bad choices is the hardest thing I've done,
it's also the best everthing I've done for myself. Because
sometimes when your mother speaks words into you, those.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Words carry power.

Speaker 7 (52:01):
So if your mother is speaking life into you, you
feel more empowered to navigate the world. When your mother
is speaking negativity and downsizing you and using painful words
to cut you down for her to find you more
malleable for her abuse, that affects the way you view
yourself in relation to the world. And so once I

(52:23):
cut my mother off, I started to slowly become more
confident in myself. And I feel very proud of the
strength that I have that if I can endure the
wound of cutting off my own mother, like I could
probably fight a bit of my own hands. It's that
kind of mental belief of I can do anything, I
can do hard things. I can live with the pain
of cutting my mother off at such a young age

(52:45):
and maintain that choice throughout my ongoing life. And you
know the same strength applies to when I go to
dance classes and I struggle with orientation and picking up choreography,
but amund myself. I can do hard things. I cut
my own mom off so I can learn this dance
routine because it's the same faculty of the brain in
you telling yourself you can't do it, because oftentimes the

(53:08):
voice that we have that tells us we can't do
it is one of our parents' voices. And my mum,
I know that she struggled a lot with perfectionism and
that imposed self perfectionism. She projected that onto me, and
I know she wasn't doing it to be evil. This
is the thing like when we're discussing people who abuse others.
When I think about the mindset of somebody who's capable

(53:29):
of doing that to their own child, I don't necessarily
think that all of them give birth to a child
and they're like, right, can't wait to abuse you and
completely dissemble your character. It's coming from a place of
I'm deeply scared of the world and I want to
protect you, so I'm going to overcompensate, but also I'm
kind of jealous of you.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Because I've birthed.

Speaker 7 (53:46):
You into a country and an array of opportunities that
I never had. And as you grow older, I start
to see more of myself in you as my child,
and I start to see that you are excelling in
ways that I didn't get to at your age, and
you've now reached the age that I was when I
had you, and I didn't get to do those things
for myself, but you get to live this free life

(54:07):
for yourself, partially because I raised you in a safe environment,
but also because I birthed you in a country where
you have opportunities. And I'm jealous, Like those things are
multiple themes happening where mothers can be jealous of their
daughters as well, and that was something that I dealt
with deeply. And so now that I'm detached from my mother,
and this is why I found it so important to

(54:27):
have this conversation with you both on this podcast, because
this genuinely feels like a really safe space to have
this conversation, And this is my first time genuinely talking
about this at this level of length. Like for years,
I stopped even mentioning my mother, even on my own podcast,
I don't talk about my mother because I feel this
sense of it's so ironic, right, like the desire to
protect your abuser, and even calling her abuser feels uncomfortable

(54:49):
because it's not like the whole time I was in
her care, she was just abusing me.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
But it's like it was enough abuse for me to
call it abusa.

Speaker 7 (54:57):
But like, for a long time, I felt very protective
of her because I understand what went wrong. But I
know that if I'm having a conversation with two strong, beautiful, understanding,
intelligent black women who are also mothers, the context of
the conversation is different because the nature of your audience
largely is mothers, and there is still time for anybody

(55:17):
who's listening who is a mother. There is still time
to repair the damage that you might have done. It
will be uncomfortable, but there is nothing more uncomfortable than
losing access to your child while they're still alive. Like
you're probably better off having a child who is physically
dead so that you can make peace of knowing that
you're never going to hear from them, But to have
a child who's still alive and you can sometimes see

(55:38):
them on the internet or you hear about them through
relatives that I can't even imagine how painful that must
be for my mother. But that's a choice that she made,
and she's going to have to live with that choice,
just like I have to live with the choice of
disowning my own mother.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (55:57):
Yeah, I just want to say thank you your vulnerability,
for your just how eloquently you've shared such a vulnerable
major piece of who you are and how you show up.
It's really like I'm almost like moved to tears thinking
like listening to you as a mother, because uh, it's

(56:21):
I can't imagine what what that feels like, and how
and how incredibly challenging that has to be, and thinking about, yes,
it is not your responsibility, you are the child, and
and how many mothers listening have who are mothers have
been you also and are and are and are now

(56:43):
over even having to self regulate in that space, the
overcompensating and what that looks like being a victim of
something like that. So I thank you so much for
sharing that, because I just want to everyone listening to
really really contemplate how that that's, whether that's shown up
in your life, whether it's playing out in your life

(57:03):
right now, and how do you shift, how do you acknowledge,
how do you begin the steps of forgiveness, of of
acknowledgement all of it, you know, and it's thank you,
thank you for sharing all. And I'm really I'm curious

(57:23):
because I think Mila's right, like this is a you know,
you think about daddy issues. That's always like the topic
of conversation, and we don't really know how we don't
really talk about how mommy issues show up in your
dating life because you know, you you you do comment
on I mean, most of your commentary is in dating,

(57:44):
a lot of dating and vimy female empowerment and and
coming back to yourself and then acting on that. But
how do you think personally these things showed up for
you prior to cutting her off? I mean, I don't know,
maybe you can share both how your mommy issues or
these things have impacted you in your dating in dating,

(58:05):
because I think a lot of people haven't, like she said,
even thought about it. Like it's either like, oh it's
him or these are my daddy issues showing up? Like
how have that? How has that shown up for you?

Speaker 7 (58:16):
That's such an incredible question because when I think about
how my mommy issues showed up for me in my
dating experiences with men. Where the main issues affected me
in relation to dating men, was constantly feeling like I
need to prove I'm lovable by being useful to men,
because for me to get my mother's love and appraise

(58:38):
all and approval was when I achieved things or when
I was obedient to her in a way that betrayed myself.
And so when I then think about how those behaviors
reflected in the ways that I would navigate being around men,
I found myself over compensating with men. I found myself
deliberately gravitating towards broke men who can't do anything for

(59:01):
me because I felt like I could control them to
a certain degree in knowing that, well, you know, you
haven't got money, so you know, you don't really have
much of an option here, do you, Like you kind
of have to be with me because it's like, who's
really going to pick you?

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Like, like, I kind of saw it in that way.

Speaker 7 (59:16):
But what was interesting was that I was still allowing
myself to be terrorized by broke men who couldn't do
anything for me, and I placed a lot of emphasis
on broke men because when men don't have money, they
are very foul to be around, largely because most men
build their self esteem on their money, their success, their achievements,

(59:37):
and money plays a huge role in a man's identity.
And so when I would gravitate towards these men, I
would project these dreams onto them of.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
You know, one day, when you get your money up.

Speaker 7 (59:48):
And you improve thanks to me building you, then this
is going to be the amazing relationship will have. I
felt this desire and need to build men because it
almost felt like I'm being useful, I'm earning the love.
I'm making sure this man feels like he can't not

(01:00:08):
love me because look at all I've done for you.
But what's interesting as well, in terms of how my
influence of my mother impacts the way that I navigate
men now, is so most of the traits that I
admire about myself ironically come from my mother. So my
mom is a very stylish woman, Like I remember when
she'd come to pick me up from school, primary school.

(01:00:30):
So this is like the age of ten and under,
and I used to initially feel so embarrassed that she'll
be the mother coming up with the short skir and
like boob sitting up because she had boobs done, and
like she always just looked so nice. And I felt
embarrassed because I'm like, oh, my god, mom's overdressed to
come get me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
But now that I'm old, I'm like, that's iconic her.

Speaker 7 (01:00:50):
Even my mom's way of like the way my mom
talks to men, Like sometimes I follow my mom to
the butchers or the market, and I would observe the
way that she would navigate talking to men to get her.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Way through a child's ears.

Speaker 7 (01:01:06):
I would just hear her playfully flirting with these men.
But now that I'm an adult and I look back
and I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Like, oh, she was so smart. She knew how to
play the game to get a discount on the meat.
That is so smart.

Speaker 7 (01:01:17):
And even the directness in which I saw my mom
speak to men who would be trying to chat her up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
That was where I slowly started to pick up Oh okay.

Speaker 7 (01:01:29):
This sassy persona Another thing my mom always said to me,
which is funny that she would say that to me
as a child. From one of my earliest memories of
having deep conversations with my mother would be her saying
to me, my daughter, if I die, promised me that
you will not marry poor. And it always stuck with
me because it's like, that's interesting that my mom's like

(01:01:50):
hypothetical dying wish, partying wish. The last thing she could
ever say to her daughter is do not marry a
broke man. And at first I found it relat I'm like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Yeah, I'll got that really stuck.

Speaker 7 (01:02:01):
And I'm sure a psychologist or therapist listening would have
some fascinating commentary on that, because isn't it ironic that
the woman who completely destroyed my self esteem is also
the woman who taught me to have self esteem pertaining
to men. And it's funny that that stuck her whole
idea of like, do not marry poor, because on the
surface of hearing that, it sounds so, oh my god,

(01:02:22):
that's so materialistic and that's so vapid.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
But when I think about.

Speaker 7 (01:02:26):
The reality of it, coming from a mother who was
the primary caregiver of three children and who also was
I think she was the breadwinner. When I look back,
it makes sense that she would say to her adult, well,
say to her daughter, when you grow up and your
age to be married, don't marry poor, because she's probably
speaking from the experience of having done this all by

(01:02:47):
herself pretty much, and her saying that this will be
easier for you if you marry a man who can
at least take care of you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
That's my understanding of her saying that.

Speaker 7 (01:02:55):
And so what's interesting about my mother and how that
has impacted the way that I navigate being around men,
is that my mother was always a woman growing up
who would tell me all these stories of like men
that she had flings with and dated, and she was
always the victor in her story, like she always she always.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Got her way with these men. And I was always
inspired by that.

Speaker 7 (01:03:17):
And so even now when I'm dominating men, it's so funny.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Right when I'm dominating men.

Speaker 8 (01:03:23):
I take on a satire recal version of my mother.
I take inspiration from the punishments my mom gave me
when I'm punishing these men, like because it's funny, because
the thing about dominating men.

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
Healing in a way almost definitely, Yeah, I would imagine
it's like double healing, because double healing because the spirit
of my mother still lives in me.

Speaker 7 (01:03:46):
But it's also healings dominate men because it's like, yeah, like,
after all men have done to us, we deserve to
boss them around a bit. But why it's also healing
is because I don't entirely look at my mother through
the lens of like hating.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Her or being angry with her.

Speaker 7 (01:04:02):
I'm still not forgiving her, but it's like for me
to free myself, I've had to accept her. But acceptance
doesn't mean enabling. Acceptance sometimes means taking everything for what
it is and coming to a final conclusion that this
situation is not going to change.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
So for your own.

Speaker 7 (01:04:23):
Sake of having peace, accept this person from afar. So
I accept that I've gotten so many beautiful lessons from
my mother. I get my face from my mother. I
get my body from my mother. I get my ability
to dance from my mother. I get my really sharp

(01:04:44):
and sort of edgy sense of humor from my mother.
I also have gotten a lot of insults that I've
taken on from her. She's somebody who is a very
dynamic character. And I think it's that Gemini trait because
she's on the cusp with cancer and and I and
I think that's a very diabolical.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
I'm a Sagittarians.

Speaker 4 (01:05:06):
I have a question about this relationship and how it
if and how it has impacted your relationship with women,
because you know, like, I haven't really heard you talk
a lot about your female friendships, and so I'm curious,
are those Yeah, how do they show up in your life?

Speaker 7 (01:05:24):
So this is You've been asking so many beautiful questions today,
another beautiful question. What I deeply value about my female
friendships is that I've chosen friends who like they really
resonate with my inner child. I have the kind of
female friendships where like, we can party, but we can

(01:05:46):
also like bitch about our moms on the phone if
we need to. I have the kind of female friendships
where I'm surrounded by deeply intellectual women, and that matters
a lot to me because I consider myself quite an
intellectual person.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
And and what I love about my female.

Speaker 7 (01:06:01):
Friendships is, I think because I'm the kind of person
where I think it's due to the abuse I've endured
for twenty something years from my mom, and also because
I don't live with anybody. I'm so used to being
by myself, and my friends really like accept me for that.
They don't sort of, they don't express upset at me

(01:06:22):
for not calling them or for not being in the
group chat when the group chat is popping off. You know,
sometimes I just go really quiet and they know that
I'm just in my in my world, in my space,
and I think that acceptance is very beautiful. Funny enough, though,
I do take on a very protective big sister role
with my friends, even though some of them are older
than me. When men come into the picture, I'm like,

(01:06:43):
who's this guy? Tell me about him?

Speaker 8 (01:06:44):
Like you, I know, right, rising right, what where would
that come from?

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
But like they'd be nervous to tell me.

Speaker 7 (01:06:56):
About this guy. They're like, I'm like, why do you
like here? What's he done for you?

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Let me see?

Speaker 7 (01:07:01):
And normally these guys, some of them, they know they
know of me, and I think because they know that
I am the best friend of their girlfriend. I do
think that these men, it kind of has made them
sort of fall in line a bit because they know
that if you upset her, she's gonna tell me. I mean,
now I'm gonna tell hers to block you. So, really
and truly is it in your interest to upset my friend?

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
No?

Speaker 7 (01:07:24):
So, I really do take on a very protective, big
sister kind of roll in my friendships. But I think
due to the abuse that I endured from my mother.
A therapist would probably call this avoidant attachment. I don't
really I don't really necessarily think I'm avoidant. I just
think that when it comes to men, I have standards
that most men can't meet. When it comes to friendships,

(01:07:46):
I kind of like I like to be in the
moment and I disappear to my own little world. And
I think it's because I have such a suffocation. When
I say suffocating mother, like, I wasn't allowed even though
I was maybe like I lived with my mum to last,
I wasn't allowed to shower with the door locked because
my mother had the belief that if I was secretly pregnant,

(01:08:08):
she didn't want to miss it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
So why you wanted to walk into the bath wore.

Speaker 7 (01:08:13):
If she wanted to walk into the bathroom while I'm showering,
she would just do so. There were times this is
going to trigger warning. There were times mother would say
to me that she's going to check if I'm a virgin.
There's only one way to check if someone is a virgin,
and unfortunately, that is assault. I didn't have bodily autonomy
in my mother's household because genuinely from my mother's perspective,

(01:08:37):
I do believe, and this is something that is quite
normal when an infant has just been born. Yes, for
that first infancy period, the baby is technically an attachment
to the mother, like they're both still one unit. The
baby genuinely believes that it is a part of the mother.
But after a while, the separation naturally happens. I don't
think that separation happened for my mom. And it's hard

(01:08:59):
because when I think, because.

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
You were so much of her identity, that's what she
told me.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
I was the first child, I'm a girl.

Speaker 4 (01:09:08):
Yeah, You're to take care of this little baby the
rest of her life, and she's going to be my
little baby, and she's going to be just like me
and do what I say and do what I want
and impress people and not disappoint me. And you know, yeah,
so it's hard.

Speaker 7 (01:09:25):
It's hard because now when I think about friendships and
men and identity, there are so many elements of myself
that I've had to leave behind because I've realized that
wasn't actually me, I was just responding to a traumatic environment.
Like this is something that for anybody who's listening, who
is on the precipice of cutting off an abusive person,
whether it's a parent or a partner. One stage that's

(01:09:49):
going to be really uncomfortable is realizing that wasn't actually
your personality.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
You were just responding to trauma.

Speaker 7 (01:09:54):
When you discover your real personality, you're going to grieve
all the time you lost not being your authentic And
it's hard because when you're existing in a situation where
you exist in relation to your abuser, you're not your
real self. You're a version of yourself You've had to
create to survive that environment. But once the threat has

(01:10:16):
been removed, you're now left with the responsibility to actually
really probe and observe who actually am I outside of
responding to trauma. And that was something that I spent
a long time realizing. And that's how I realized, Oh
I do have ADHD. That's crazy ooops. Like I started
to really almost unmask and allow myself to be me,

(01:10:38):
and I realized, Okay, there's a whole version of myself
that I didn't know existed. And now I feel anger
for all the times when I could have been myself
but I wasn't in an environment that would have allowed
me to be myself. And so this cause into question, well,
what is the purpose of a mother to an adult child?
Because I still do think that adult children need their parents.

(01:10:59):
We don't need our parents in the way we needed
them when we were ten, but I do think that
adult children need their parents in the form of a
safe space.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
Like the world is.

Speaker 7 (01:11:09):
Already hard enough as it is, and I think that
the one thing that mothers can do for their children
is to just be that unconditional safe space. But unconditional
safe space doesn't mean enabling harmful or bad or rude behavior.
I think it's just allowing your child to feel like
they can actually come to you and tell you things.
Because there were things that I really wanted to tell

(01:11:29):
my mom that I couldn't tell her because I knew
she would judge me. Like when a guy sexually assaulted me,
I didn't tell my mom. I kept it a secret,
so she probably found out through me talking about it
on YouTube somewhere on someone's podcast. And that's because she
didn't create a safe environment. So technically, and this is
going to be I find it hard to say because
I'm not a mother, but if I was to give

(01:11:51):
my Yelp review on my parenting, I wouldn't give five stars.
I would say, as a mother, if you have, I've
not created an environment where your child can feel safe
to be around you, safe to tell you things that
they've done that may maybe they're.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Not proud of.

Speaker 7 (01:12:09):
If a child doesn't feel safe to tell you something
that they've done that's put them in danger, you failed
as a parent. And I feel really scared saying that
because there are parents who are going to be like, well,
you don't get to say a mother has failed because
you're not a mother. But what I'm trying to say
is from the perspective of having now grown into an
adult child who is now articulate and old enough to
look back on the parenting I received and give my

(01:12:32):
humble review, I would say that where a lot of
mothers go wrong is that they're so focused on trying
to protect their daughters rightfully so from a very unsafe world,
that they forget to be a safe space for their daughters.
And I do think that mummy issues affect daughters more
than daddy issues do because the reason I say that

(01:12:53):
is daddy issues pertains mainly to just validation of like,
I really want what that to tell me? He laughs
me but with mummy issues, it's like, that's the foundational
structure that you've come from. So if your mom tells
you that she hates you, that's gonna cut way deeper
in my opinion, and your dad telling you that he
hates you, because that's who you've come from. That's the

(01:13:15):
person who sets the tone for how you see yourself forever.
That's the person whose voice you carrying your head. That's
the person who, from an animalistic instinctual level, if something
scary is happening to you, out of instinct, you'll.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Be like, mommy, you're not gonna be.

Speaker 7 (01:13:28):
Like daddy like I can't imagine for bears coming to
eat me.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
I'm gonna be like daddy like that.

Speaker 7 (01:13:33):
No, as much as my dad, you know, he now
plays a role in my life where I do feel
like he's a safe space for me. If I was
in a genuine animalistic environment where all of my instincts
are firing off, as much as I'm not speaking to
my mother, I will still shout mommy out of instinct
because on a like pinial gland level, mother is the protector.

(01:13:54):
Mother is the person who I'm supposed to feel protected by.
So if I don't have that protection on a foundation level,
that can definitely absolutely disassemble my sense of identity. So
when women are walking around with a fractured sense of identity,
of course they seek identity in relationships, and of course
men are the gateway because if we're not giving you
validation and they're telling you everything that you've ever wanted

(01:14:17):
to hear, you're gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
Eat that shit right up.

Speaker 4 (01:14:19):
But if you learn.

Speaker 7 (01:14:20):
How to form a strong, solid sense of identity outside
of men, and you take what they're saying for what
it is, Because for me, when men are talking to me,
I'm taking it over a very strong pinch of salt
and seasonings. I'm like, it's a man, and I know
you want to see my tits, so I know you're
telling me all these things because you know you want
to see my boobs, so we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
You have to show me if this is true.

Speaker 7 (01:14:39):
But when men are talking to me, it's like, because
I have I won't say I've repaired the mother wind,
but I've made peace with that wound. Men can't get
into my head using the tactics that anybody who knows
a woman who's been abused by how mother would use Similarly,
it's like it could be argued that I have that
the issues because I come with that off for five years,
but we're good now.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
But it's like, I just think that whether you.

Speaker 7 (01:15:02):
Have a healed and completely quote unquote normal relationship with
your parents or not, men are still going to try
and get into your head. And this is why it's
so important to fortify yourself mentally. If you're somebody who
has endured abuse doesn't mean that you're unlovable. It just
means that you've unfortunately got extra work to do than

(01:15:23):
everyone else because you have to find a way to
overcompensate in your own way for what you lacked. But
men are not the Men are not the vessel for that.
Men are an accessory to the existing love you've created
for yourself. So this is why I'm not in a
place where I'm looking for love.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
I have love. I am loved.

Speaker 7 (01:15:39):
I'm loved by my dad, I'm loved by my relatives,
I'm loved by my friends, I'm loved by myself. And
I think the idea of a man's love being this
cherry on top is us placing men's love on a pedestal,
because most men don't even love themselves.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
And I've seen men don't even love their children.

Speaker 7 (01:15:55):
They be walking out on their own children, let alone
expecting a man to love me into fall.

Speaker 4 (01:16:00):
Right, that's that's what that's a Ladies, if you're listening
that nigga, if he's not in his child's way.

Speaker 6 (01:16:08):
He's not going to be a good friend.

Speaker 4 (01:16:11):
Like what are don't excuses?

Speaker 6 (01:16:13):
You can't even have a homegirl that's not a good mom,
or a homeboy that's not a good dad, because he's
gonna not be a good friend. No parent, if you're
not a good parent, you cannot be a good friend.
It just scientifically does not exist. I always say that
if you're an ancient mom or dad and I'm like,
where's your kid? Like, oh, we're so and so, and
I've never seen him with your kid, I'm gonna cut

(01:16:34):
you off.

Speaker 4 (01:16:35):
Yes period. Wait, ladies, I know we're running low on time,
and before we before we run out of time, a
few things. Number one, I want to play trigger. I
want to play trigger. Number two, did we pull a card?
I did pull a card? Okay? Number three, you have

(01:16:58):
an affirmation for us because I feel like the people know. Yeah,
I feel like that's the whole thing has been an affirmation, truly,
but I don't know. I don't know if you can
you share an affirmation maybe with our audience.

Speaker 7 (01:17:10):
My affirmation that I always repeat to myself and to
anybody I me is know your worth and act on it.
Because know your worth is something we're always told. But
the follow up should be to act on it. Because
you can know your worth in your head, but you're
still in environments don't reflect that worth. So acting on
it means you taking radical action, and sometimes that action
will not be very popular, it might not be comfortable.

(01:17:33):
But if you're operating from a place of knowing your worth,
then you're leading with the best possible intention for yourself.
So my offering is know your worth and act on it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:42):
Know you're your worth, and act on it. Amen, Amen
to that?

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Lights blunt right?

Speaker 4 (01:17:50):
Okay, side. We have a game on our show called
Trigger and basically, I say a word, you say the
first thing that comes to mind when I say it,
don't overthink it, just whatever comes to mind. Bad habits, weed,

(01:18:11):
What what do you mean that that's not a habit?

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
Okay? To briefly, okay, So to briefly explain.

Speaker 4 (01:18:17):
As I'm smoking a big fat joint.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
To briefly explain, I'm sorry. Sorry to my parents.

Speaker 7 (01:18:22):
If you're hearing this, they probably already know, but sorry,
if you're hearing me say this, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
A weed smoker.

Speaker 7 (01:18:27):
Why I say it's a bad habit is because sometimes
I get into a place where it's starting to become
an addiction.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
So I forced myself to stop.

Speaker 7 (01:18:33):
Like, I don't pick up anymore for like months, And
I'm like, see.

Speaker 4 (01:18:37):
I'm not an ad I'm not a crack you hear fantastic,
I'm an addict. Then like verified, I'm in a heavy
season of smoking right now. Actually I've been really going
for it. Can you hear my voice?

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
Okay? Season our temporary. I even feel like.

Speaker 4 (01:18:57):
I have like smoker voice. I'm like, yeah, I'm smoking,
BIGGI a dulting Okay, Sorry, I got sidetracked because you
were talking about my my beautiful flower, marriage, beneficial motherhood,

(01:19:20):
sacrificial religion, oppressive, anal.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
Uncharted territory, pegging unfamiliar.

Speaker 4 (01:19:37):
Have you ever been asked to peg as a darm yet?

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
People ask me that?

Speaker 7 (01:19:40):
And the thing is, I'm not in a place in
my life where I'm curious about any bumholes, including my own.
I've never been anally stimulated.

Speaker 8 (01:19:46):
I don't have a finger. I've had a finger in there,
and it feels like I'm meant to like push it out.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
I feel weird. I'm like, should I bear down? But
I get it like it feels like I should poo tongue,
maybe a tongue. I don't like it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:06):
Eating puss.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
Hmmm.

Speaker 4 (01:20:11):
Curious dating status, single love language.

Speaker 7 (01:20:20):
Money, you came in, you came in, oh musty oh?

Speaker 4 (01:20:30):
Okay, ships and because that's sting called ships and gags,
sugar and girl.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
We don't have enough time for that.

Speaker 4 (01:20:37):
You don't have it's not gags and.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
It might as well be. It's just it might as
well be. It's just in giggles.

Speaker 4 (01:20:43):
Yea, his name is giggles. Ships and go is that
I don't know. I think it's shipps and gigs.

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
It is ships and gigs.

Speaker 4 (01:20:52):
Okay, no, no word?

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Oh well, well disappointing. I'll say that she and gigs.

Speaker 4 (01:21:04):
White men, option have you been with a white man?
Have you had sex?

Speaker 7 (01:21:12):
I thought, have you had white take white men's money,
but I've not had sex. I've not had sex with
white man in over ten years.

Speaker 4 (01:21:18):
So you've had white penis inside of you, white penis.

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
Inside me, but the pussy does not hold the score.
Unfortunately she doesn't remember.

Speaker 4 (01:21:32):
Black men.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
Oh delightful, God, that sounds so delight wonderful.

Speaker 4 (01:21:41):
You know what, I've decided, and I'm going to read
the rest of these words. Here's your five minutes. Here
you go, here I goes favorite sex position.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
Oh hmmm, what's it called when you're like to the side,
like the lazer the fuck?

Speaker 4 (01:22:01):
Like, is he behind you?

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
What's that? No, he's next he's he's next to me.

Speaker 4 (01:22:07):
Wait, he's in front of you. He's like like you're
like putting you and he's in front of you, or
you're like you're actually to the side.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
We're both to the side of each other.

Speaker 4 (01:22:17):
That's like a lazy like the cuddle the lazy fuck.
I just made that lazy snuggle fuck snuggle snuggle fuck,
snuggle fuck me vibe snuggle fuck. Can we do that
snuggle fuck thing? It sounds like a character street character
snuggle fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
Mister snuggle.

Speaker 4 (01:22:41):
Is here to help. I'm here to save the day.
That's a character in our children's show Adult children Show.
Last bad choice. My English, I don't know how to
say this last bad choice? You're a practice one word.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
Believing.

Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
I'm believing.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
Yeah, believing a man is a lot believe, Like, joke's
on me.

Speaker 4 (01:23:09):
The last good choice?

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
Oh, coming on this podcast.

Speaker 7 (01:23:15):
That's right, baby, Happily ever after, Oh, Happily ever after,
mansion monogamy, Oh, open end, cannabis, medicinal.

Speaker 4 (01:23:40):
Boxes or briefs, Oh Boxers, celebrity crush.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
Frank Ocean.

Speaker 4 (01:23:53):
I know, right, Frank Ocean in Brooklyn. We were just
so enamored. He just walked by. We were having the
best day. We were having the best day and he
just like walked by, and I think we continue to
have like a really good day. He's just crazier after that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
I love Frank Kosher. I love that man. Masturbation absolutely yes.

Speaker 4 (01:24:19):
What do you like to use to masturbate? Do you use?
You think? Am I fucking Australian? Why do you have
a masturbate?

Speaker 7 (01:24:29):
I have a technique that I feel like I need
to just tell all the girls who are like, oh,
I don't really like I don't know how to masturbate.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
I didn't have to, girl, Let me tell you what
we need to do it right? Tell the girl put
put the lube on your titties. Wait, you're gonna need
a mirror. You're going to need lube.

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
On my titt like you have two loobs, because yes,
we need lube. We need a mirror.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
You know you can get you know that, right, what work?
You know you can get two to orgasms.

Speaker 4 (01:24:58):
I've had one, but one of my one of my
nipples is numb because I had my boobs done and
they cut my nipple and it's the whole thing. I
thought it was coming back.

Speaker 7 (01:25:06):
So so the nipple are still alive. I'm going to
explain this in our last five minutes. Right, if you
have nipples that are still awake, blube on the titties. Okay,
you need to two sex toys, both vibrators. I would
say the rose toy is good for the pussy. You're
going to need a vibrator for the nip for the boobs.

(01:25:28):
That is like it looks like a penis, but doesn't
have to be a penis, just like a like a
longish balax.

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
Yeah, yeah, a thalilin vibrator.

Speaker 7 (01:25:37):
Yes, So what you want to do is choose a
setting for the phallic vibrator and you use that on
the titties that you alternate need to doing it in
the mirror, so you can be like, I'm gonna say hot,
and then you use You can start with using fingers
because you're getting the titty orgasm, so you're kind of like, WHOA,
this feels nice, and then you introduce the rose to
the chat when you start to get wet, and you

(01:26:01):
will most likely project how square if you're someone who's like, oh,
I don't squat, I promise you you will.

Speaker 6 (01:26:08):
Okay, Well, I'm going to be reaching out to you
in about two weeks as soon.

Speaker 4 (01:26:11):
As I get going to change your please report that.

Speaker 6 (01:26:13):
And I'm going to tell you because I'm writing notes
and this is the first time ever anyone's given us
that like deeply of a masturbation instruction, and I'm really
looking forward to trying it something job.

Speaker 1 (01:26:23):
That's why I've survived since twenty twenty one about being
a man. And I can't do that.

Speaker 4 (01:26:28):
I mean no, you know what. I had a strong
era of some bomb ass masturbation where I live. Literally
was like I don't really need the dick. I had
this dick strapped to the wall, I had the vibrator,
but actually that is you know, thank you for the reminder.
I haven't been masturbating in a mirror in a while,
and I think it's time to run that back.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
The mirror is the main part.

Speaker 7 (01:26:50):
Yeah, you need the visual. Do you gay for yourself?
Like you have to genuinely look at itself and be like,
oh my.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
God, this is so hot.

Speaker 4 (01:26:57):
You get a mirror.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
And for best.

Speaker 7 (01:26:58):
Effects, if you have like satin robe, Like satin is
really nice for like erogenous areas because something about the
slip of the fabric. So if you're wearing a satin robe,
use the vibrator on your titty through the robe, if
that makes sense, because.

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
That gets you even more.

Speaker 7 (01:27:15):
Yeah, because then when you remove the robe, you feel
if the sensitivity heightens even more. And if you can
for best effects as well, if your robe is long enough,
like put a bit of the fabric of the robe
on your pussy and then put the vibrator on the robe,
and when you remove the robe, it's even more like
heightened sensations. I figured all it's out because it's been

(01:27:35):
what four years in counting of not being a man.
I'm sorry, Like he's gonna have to just like have
his hand tired, and you can watch like you can't
even you can't even be of any use in the
situation and sit down.

Speaker 4 (01:27:49):
No, no, put it here. Oh my god, Evan, this
is I get a way to come to see you.
I can't wait to come across the pond.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
You have to come on this podcast. You have to
be in this room with me.

Speaker 4 (01:28:07):
We love it, We would love it right way.

Speaker 7 (01:28:11):
I would love to thank you for fostering a beautiful
conversation where I can discuss the pain and the complexity
of being a strange for my mother, and I can
also talk about rapping my titties in one episode, things that.

Speaker 4 (01:28:26):
We all needed to know was all nothing that one point.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
I appreciate it, not one stone hasn't been time.

Speaker 6 (01:28:32):
I appreciate your vulnerability. And you're arranged because women have ranged.
There's a lot of parts of us and we need
to talk about it all.

Speaker 7 (01:28:41):
Thank you and to any mothers who are listening. And
if you've heard my story, you still have time to
turn it around. You still have time, and deep down
you are a good mother. But if you're making bad choices,
your child is going to have whatever outcome. And if
that means a child doesn't speak to you, again, you
will have to live with that choice, so you still
have time, mother wherever you are. Not my mother, she

(01:29:03):
ain't changing. But to the moments who are listening to
this first, If your mother whoven listen to this podcast,
then you're already on the right track. I wish my
mother would listen to this podcast because it would encourage
her to see herself beyond just being a mother, because
being a mother is a whole world in itself, but
women deserve to have identities outside of that. So thank

(01:29:24):
you for creating this podcast, and thank you for having me.

Speaker 4 (01:29:26):
Yes, thank you, I'm really I'm deeply grateful that you
feel safe here. And yes to the mother's listening. Just
I think it's a beautiful reflection and that's what this
is all about. And if you resist the reflection, you're
gonna end up being a psychopath. It's just it's just science.
So don't be a psychopath. Girl, be a good mon girl,

(01:29:48):
baby girl. Raby posty was sad period? What was the
what was the tror of the day, My.

Speaker 10 (01:29:56):
Dear, Oh, the terror of the day was the high
refond reverse and it means it is positive form.

Speaker 6 (01:30:09):
The hy rEFInd reverse reminds you that you are your
own teacher. All the wisdom you see it comes from within,
not from so much external source or power. You're being
guided to follow your own path and adopt your own
spiritual beliefs rather than blindly following others. It may feel
unsettling at first as you make your own way, but
over time you will learn to trust yourself and tap
into your inner knowledge. Others may question your motives to

(01:30:30):
go against tradition, but you know deep within that now
is the time, so you don't need external approval to
succeed as you have exemplified so beautifully and honestly. So
grateful to connect with you and have you here and
hear your story, and I appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
Thank you, yes, thank you so much for listening.

Speaker 4 (01:30:50):
Can you let our people know where they can find you.

Speaker 7 (01:30:53):
You can find me online on social media at the
Slam of Flower. I mainly use Instagram, and if you
would love to listen to my podcast and hear more
about how I tackle a world full of men without
losing my mind, I am on the slum Flower Hour
podcast on all streaming platforms including YouTube if you don't
have any of the streaming platforms. Thank you for having me.

(01:31:14):
I really really loved this. This was very healing and affirming.
Thank you so much, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:31:18):
Thank you, thank you, and we will see you guys
next week. You know where to find us. Just click
all the things in the caption and do all that stuff.
We love you, Bye bye.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
Yeah, I'm living so good. Can't you tell? I went
through a drought.

Speaker 5 (01:31:34):
That's until I found a weal mad might have been
known Earth that used to be broken tail now got
the blues.

Speaker 1 (01:31:39):
Hands might be Yon.

Speaker 5 (01:31:40):
Say Jasell throat shot or pop in this cower and
her voice. This patriarchy kept it in the box. So
what's foils? Women put the pee and powers?

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
So what's pointing this? Stay want me to be good?

Speaker 5 (01:31:49):
So I mean their choice is bad mom, not a
bad mom, but a bad man.

Speaker 4 (01:31:54):
Itter's in.

Speaker 5 (01:31:55):
Put cannabus in her bad bar, being bosses capping that
blue is cat bar type dog.

Speaker 1 (01:32:00):
Now I'm immune to the cat calls. Being no waisted
straight to it like a dollar sign. Mother, rent the lover,
when to what?

Speaker 5 (01:32:06):
It's like a water sim where you're rent the winter
essential will when the summertime?

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
I do what all ain't no one that needs to
run it by

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Hosts And Creators

Erica Dickerson

Jamilah Mapp

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Mother Wound Feat. Slumflower