August 25, 2021 • 44 mins
The USS Salem, now part of the United States Shipbuilding Museum in Quincy, MA, never fired a shot in anger, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t see her fair share of deaths and casualties. Today, she is rumored to be haunted by victims of an earthquake in Greece, Navy sailors, and strangely - crying babies.
Special Guest: Don Decristofaro
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky listener discretion is advised.
Back in I was investigating a legendary aircraft carrier, the
U s S. York Town, with the show Ghost Hunters.
(00:22):
This was not the first ship I had investigated, and
would very much not be my last. But I had
an encounter on board that vessel that is indicative of
just how wildly haunted these ships can be. During our
investigation of the York Town, Adam Bury and I were
standing on the flight deck of the carrier when off
in the distance, we saw a man walking very purposefully
(00:44):
across the deck. He wasn't coming toward us, rather, he
was walking toward the other end of the ship. We
were told we were alone on board save for one
security guard who would be in his office should we
need him. We also had a radio directly to this man,
so we meet at ly walked him to see if
he had left his post. He had not, so who
(01:05):
were we looking at? Had someone managed to make it
on board? We called out to this man as he walked.
He did not stop. He did not hesitate or slow down.
Most people when they catch sight of a camera crew,
they have a response like a deer in the headlights,
they freeze. Even so, most people who hear other people
yelling for their attention at the very least slow down
(01:27):
or look their way. This man didn't done of those things.
He just kept walking like he knew what he was
doing and where he was going, until he disappeared behind
the edge of the Aircraft Carriers Island, which is the
command center for flight deck operations. Adam and I, puzzled,
had begun running towards this man. Our camera operator and
(01:47):
sound guy in tow just seconds after the man rounded
that corner. We were there as well. We were upset
someone had contaminated our investigation. We take what we do
very seriously, and we were very determined to know who
this was and how they got on board. Except when
we went around that corner we found an empty space.
(02:07):
There was one door, but it was padlocks shut with
a lock that looked like it hadn't been touched in years,
judging by the amount of rust on it. The only
place that man could have gone was overboard, and we
most definitely would have heard a splash. I was not surprised,
as someone who has investigated over a dozen ships, some
multiple times. I found them well stocked with ghosts and spirits,
(02:29):
many still doing the jobs they so faithfully and dutifully
performed in life. So join me as we take a
trip to another of these haunted ships. She's lovingly called
the Sea Witch. I'm Amy Brunei, and welcome to Haunted Road.
(02:53):
The U S. S. Salem actually had post war beginnings
plans for heavy cruisers to take on global navies pre
day World War Two, of course, but when the war
came to a close in early September nineteen forty five,
America's latest and greatest answer to naval warfare was in
its infancy. The United States military needed a fleet, and
one that hadn't seen the dogs of war and been
(03:15):
chewed to pieces in the process. The US was solidifying
its position in the Pacific and trying to outpace the
Russians in naval supremacy. Construction on the us AS Salem
started on July four, ninety five, in Quincy, Massachusetts. The
Salem launched on March twenty five, nineteen forty seven. There
were two iterations of the Salem before this heavy cruiser.
(03:38):
The first Salem was named for the city in Massachusetts.
The second Salem was named in honor of the first ship,
and the third Salem was again named for the city
in Massachusetts. She was the last of her kind and
today is the only remaining heavy cruiser in the world,
which really puts into perspective how special she is and
how lucky New England is to have her. Now some
(04:00):
logistical history of the Salem, because she has seen some
things in her time. The Salem was commissioned at the
Boston Navy Yard on May fourteenth, nineteen forty nine. The
ship stopped in her namesake town on July four ninety nine,
before undergoing three months of rigorous testing at Guantanamo Bay.
After that, she again returned to Boston to undergo repairs.
(04:22):
Her crew nicknamed her the Sea Witch, a name that
has very much remained after spending three months aboard her
docked at Salem. In May of nineteen fifty, Salem became
the first flagship for the U. S sixth Fleet, headquartered
in Naples, Italy. During this the first of seven deployments
to the Mediterranean as fleet flagship, Salem punctuated her training
(04:43):
at sea with ports and Malta, Italy, France Greece, Turkey, Lebanon,
and Algeria. Salem also reported to Guantanamo every year to
complete training. She also participated in other trainings performed with
other countries, though she very notably never fired her mighty
guns and anger. The Salem's very presence served as a
(05:05):
stimulus for peace during the troubled times that became known
as the Cold War. According to history books, she served
as a lady of diplomacy rather than as a means
of exerting brute force. She resumed her flagship duties in
nineteen fifty six during the Suez Crisis. That battle over
the Suez Canal was also an attempt to remove Egypt's
(05:27):
president Gamal abdel Nasser from power. Israel first invaded Egypt,
followed by the UK and France. They eventually extricated themselves,
though after the US Soviet Union and the U N
applied political pressure. This event concluded the end of Britain's
superpower status. But what about In pop culture? In nineteen
(05:47):
fifty six, the Salem was cast as the German pocket
battleship Admiral Graf Spy in the Battle of the River Plate.
There were significant differences between the graf Spy and the Salem,
not the least of which was that one was a
German ship during World War Two. The differences were explained
by the historical fact that the ship's carpenters often camouflaged
(06:08):
graph spe to resemble foreign vessels. Salem had another cinematic
moment when she made a cameo in the action packed
thriller from Disney called The Finest Hour, starring Casey Affleck
and Chris pine In. In nineteen fifty eight, Salem made
the trek to Monaco for the celebration of the birth
of Princess Grace Kelly's and Prince Rainier the third son,
(06:30):
Albert the second. All very interesting, but why is she
so haunted? And what kind of activity do people experience
on board? While the Salem never fired a shot in anger,
she saw her fair share of death. Most famously, she
was one of the first ships to arrive to provide
aid during the Great Cafalonia earthquake in Greece in August
(06:51):
of nineteen fifty three. To put into perspective what happened
on the islands, let me describe the conditions the Salem
arrived too. Now, the nineteen fifty three Ionian Earthquake, also
known as the Great Cafalonia Earthquake, struck the southern Ionian
Islands on August twelfth, nineteen fifty three. In mid August,
(07:12):
there were over one hundred thirteen recorded earthquakes in the
region between Cafalonia and Zecinthos, and the most destructive was
at August twelfth earthquake. The event measured six point eight
on the moment magnitude scale, and it raised the whole
island of Cavalonia by twenty four inches and caused widespread
damage throughout the islands of Cafalonia and Zecanthos. When disaster
(07:35):
struck on that Wednesday, August twelve, a m Argostolian was
a town of about eighty five hundred people, swollen by
vacationers from the Greek mainland. It was the biggest community
in the three Ionian Sea islands and it took the
brunt of the quake. After the large quake, nothing was
left of the city but piles of bricks and splintered wood,
(07:57):
a few cracked shells of houses, and shocked survivors crowding
the Argostolian Bay sides. British medical officers with the destroyer
Darling were the first to arrive with outside aid. They
set up first aid stations on the beach and treated survivors.
The Salem arrived Thursday morning, the first unit of the
sixth Fleet to reach the scene. The Greek government sent
(08:18):
to amphibious vessels and a contingent of soldiers. According to
newspaper articles of the time, the doctors and orderlies of
these ships treated perhaps a thousand casualties, but they never
could confirm. Many said there were just too many to count.
The most seriously hurt were evacuated. The rest remained on
the beaches bandaged, and Dull was shocked, asking only to
(08:40):
leave sailors aboard. The Salem reported finding the local hospital
leveled and a local insane asylum destroyed as well. Desperate
nurses had changed patients of the asylum to trees. One
medic from the Salem called it real snake pit stuff.
They have got one nurse and one old attendant watching
fifty inmates. There was a jail too, with about two
(09:04):
fifty prisoners. When the jail collapsed, the prisoners ran loose.
Greek soldiers and police rounded them up and put them
in an improvised stockade surrounded by barbed wire. Leading the
American rescue work was Lieutenant RB. Jacobs of the Salem,
the ship's control officer from Revere, Massachusetts. He sent search
teams into the hills and digging through town looking for
(09:26):
trapped people. They found scores of living victims trapped beneath debris,
some had been there for two days. They also found
people hiding and afraid to return to Argostolian. Local legends
said one day Argostolian would fall into the sea, and
as far as they were concerned, it was happening. There
are many rumors as to how many people were treated
(09:48):
on the actual ship itself. Most articles of the time
point to make shift hospitals and operating rooms being assembled
on the shore, but it also stands to reason that
some of the more seriously injured would have been brought
aboard for treatment than perhaps evacuated to other local hospitals.
Many rumors point to the ship having been used as
a morgue for the between four hundred forty and eight
(10:10):
hundred people killed, but this also remains unsubstantiated and, considering
the heavy presence of other rescue ships in the area,
highly unlikely. Regardless The tragedy of the Greek earthquakes and
subsequent rescue mission surely left an indelible scar on the
Salem and her crew. Today, there are reports of Greek
(10:31):
speaking ghosts aboard the Salem, including the apparition of an
angry Grecian girl encountered in the mess hall. Folks claim
she only speaks Greek and half her face is missing.
There was also a ghost rumor to have been a
civilian volunteer during the earthquake who died by suicide after
coming upon the corpse of his mutilated wife, a good story,
(10:52):
but again completely unproven. The rescue mission in Greece was
not the only source of potential hauntings on board. There
was at least one incident where sailors from another ship
were brought aboard after an explosion. The Salem's medical facilities
were better suited to treating them, but three perished. People
have reported hearing footsteps when no one is around. Others
(11:13):
have heard disembodied voices and loud bangs. Chairs have also
reportedly been thrown. The printer at the museum, Peter Bloomberg,
reported a mysterious figure appearing before him in one of
the ship's hallways. The figure stared at him, then descended
the staircase. Peter was alone on the ship at the time.
Salem's head archivist, John Connor, heard his name called when
(11:36):
he was in a sleeping quarter. He also has heard
mysterious footsteps that he can't find the source for. He
says these happenings don't bother him, but that you get
the feelings someone is watching you, and you get chills
up your spine. There's the spirit of a man they
called John, who is apparently the spirit of a former
tour guide. Reportedly, people see him and talk to him,
(11:58):
especially in the area of the anchor windless room. There
the anger would be reeled in and out. There are
also rumors of babies crying, which doesn't seem to mesh Historically,
some investigators have said babies were born on the Salem
because in the hospital area there is a table with stirrups,
But as any woman will tell you, those stirrups aren't
(12:19):
always used just for childbirth. While women never served on
the Salem, it does stand to reason perhaps this table
and its stirrups were there for rescue efforts, though as
of now there is no documentation to verify any babies
were born on the ship. The U S S. Salem
was decommissioned in January of nineteen fifty nine. In there
(12:40):
was talk of reactivating her service as she was still
very capable, but the funding from Congress was not guaranteed,
so she was not resurrected. In October, the Salem came
full circle and made her way to her birthplace, Quincy, Massachusetts.
She's been a museum ship ever since. Up next, we
(13:00):
will talk to paranormal investigator and ship volunteer Don D. Christopharo.
He's a no nonsense veteran and historian with some great
ghost stories from the Salem. He's also a man who
I think the ship has a soft spot in her
heart for. Also, you'll hear about my experience on the Salem,
one that I've never experienced before and have never encountered since.
(13:42):
I am sitting here now with Don D. Christopharo, who
is a paranormal investigator who's very involved in the USS Salem.
We have worked with him in the past. If you
saw our episode of Kindred Spirits that we did um
the Ship, Don was our client there and it's very
all around solid dude who knows a lot about the
(14:03):
history of the ship and I think has a very
special relationship with the Salem. So thanks for joining us down.
Thanks for asking me, Amy, I appreciate it, of course. Now,
we filmed on the Salem during the pandemic. That was
one of our first cases that we kind of ventured out,
and I know you are close to tours at the time.
How have things changed at the Salem since then? Well,
(14:27):
I mean we've gotten much more back to normal in
terms of how we managed the tours. You know, we
tried last year to do it as normally I guess
is the only word I can use, as possible, you know,
but we split into smaller groups and kind of spread
people out a little bit more, which, as you know,
on the ship isn't really an easy thing to do.
But this season, you know, we we have bigger groups now,
(14:49):
and of course we're not wearing masks at least for
the time being, right, so things are much more the
way they used to be at the moment. I'm fortunate
and that I've actually been to the Salem quite a
few times times, and you know, I just I love
how involved everyone is with the ship and just kind
of keeping her in this state of availability to people
(15:10):
to come and check out. I know there's a lot
of paranormal investigations on board, but what else happens on
the Salem. The ship is open all weekend Friday, Saturday,
and Sunday during the summer, open to the public. And
it's not just the Salem. It'st the United States Naval
Shipbuilding Museum UM, the museum spaces below decks. Most of
(15:32):
the areas that were cruise berthing when the ship was
active have been converted into museum spaces. And Quincy has
a very, very long and rich shipbuilding tradition, and the
Salem is the great celebration of that. So she's open
quite a bit, and there there are other events that
take place, community type events on the ship as well.
You know, the volunteers, as you said, are are all
(15:54):
very very invested and working as hard as they can
to keep the ship up, and we worked very hard
to make show the ship is not going to go
anywhere to be frank, yeah, thankfully. Now do you think
that any of the hauntings on board have anything to
do with the various artifacts that you have brought in
for the museums, Well, it's kind of interesting that you
should say that, because just recently we've started to hear
(16:17):
some music that's much older than the ship itself, and
we're looking at some of the artifacts in the museum
that are related to the shipyard rather than the ship,
and trying to determine whether or not some of this
stuff has something to do with those objects instead of
the ship itself. Yeah, I mean, that's really interesting. It
wouldn't surprise me because I remember just going through the collections,
(16:40):
they're just amazed at everything you guys have curated. A
lot of those artifacts have seen some, you know, really
interesting times in history. So who knows what you could
have brought on board in addition to the spirits you
already have lately. Oh, absolutely, no, you're absolutely right. I guess.
I guess crazy active is is the best question I
can use, you know. I mean, we have our quiet
(17:02):
nights like everybody else does, but they are a few
and far between, and to the point where we're kind
of spoiled when we go other places because of the
volume of activity on the ship. The shadow activity is
picking up, the noise activity is ridiculous. At this point,
the e vps are becoming much more clearer, and I think,
(17:23):
as you know, they have context a lot of them,
which is which is really awesome. Yeah, and I love that.
That's kind of my favorite kind of haunting, you know.
And to this day, the Salem is where I had
one of my strangest paranoral experiences. And I when I
try to explain it to people, I guess it doesn't
seem that intense, but for me it really was because
(17:46):
basically I was standing in the mess hall area and
I was looking kind of towards that little it's it's
next to the kitchen area that it's like it's kind
of a storage area I think for pots and pans
or what have you, and the two scullery the two
scullery areas. Yeah, and I'm staring at that, and I
see these kind of twinkling lights up in the corner,
(18:07):
and my brain is processing it as there's some sort
of window there and there is some sort of like
ship going by with a mast or like some sort
of lights going by, and I kind of just filed
it away as you know, something outside that I'm seeing
through a window. And then it dawned on me there's
no window there, and I'm just looking at these little
(18:30):
twinkling lights, and I'm thinking, what am I looking at
right now? And it went on for like a solid
twenty seconds, I feel like, and then they just kind
of stopped, and I just remember, like almost I thought
something medically, what was wrong with me? I was like, like,
what's happening? Am I having like a stroke or like?
And I started kind of having a little panic attack
(18:51):
and I was like no, no, And literally later it
was either later on that day or the next night,
you just happened to run into us in the library
and you were Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention,
sometimes people see these little twinkling fairy lights in this area,
which is exactly what I saw. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah.
I was very thankful. And I don't think we've really
(19:13):
addressed that part of it on the show, because I
think we just saw you in passing. I don't know
that they were cameras rolling, but I remember just thinking,
oh my gosh, Okay, it wasn't in my head. I
don't need to go see a medical doctor, but yeah,
that was. I mean, I don't know what causes that.
What what do you think? I know other people have
seen that. What do you think causes something like that. Well,
it's kind of interesting. We were at the point now
(19:34):
where we've determined that there are a lot of spirits
on the ship we weren't aware of previously that maybe
aren't from the ship itself, that are from the shipyard
and things like that, And I've kind of come to
the conclusion that there are many of them that aren't
quite strong enough to really manifest in a solid way,
that is to say, in an audio way or visually.
(19:56):
And I've come to believe that the lights are their manifestation,
something that's not quite strong enough to do something that's
going to jump out at us, but that are making
themselves known in a little bit less obvious way. Yeah,
I mean that makes perfect sense to me. I mean
I still to Like I said, it just still stands
as one of my strangest experiences because so many paranormal
(20:17):
experiences are kind of fleeting or quick, but this I
just stared at for so long without even realizing what
I was looking at. I wondered too, just because how
often do you all host paranormal investigations on board? Would
you say? Pretty much every weekend? Now, this past weekend
was both Friday and Saturday night. Ah, and I think
that other spirits might be coming in. You know, we've
(20:41):
seen that before with these locations where you're hosting investigations
on a regular basis and you have a bunch of
people sitting in the dark just intensely thinking that they
would like to see a ghost or make contact and
anything he wants to talk, or anyone who wants to
talk and come forward. And it makes you wonder, you
know how many of these kind of wayward spirits sense
(21:02):
that and that kind of attracts them to a place
like that. Oh, that's definitely a possibility, you know. I
mean people bring things with them as well, and we
think that's part of it. We've had psychics come aboard,
sensitives who as soon as they walk into the main wardroom,
which is where we kind of gather as groups, who
say that they're just coming at them from all directions
(21:22):
as soon as they come aboard. So you know, as
I said, they're not all pronounced, they don't all make
themselves known to us on a regular basis. But there's
no doubt in our minds now that we can't even
estimate the number of entities there are aboard the ship. Okay,
so I know that obviously they say famously that Salem
never fired a shot in anger, right, So we never
(21:44):
really saw any action per se, but definitely saw its
share of tragedy, like there was the earthquake rescue mission,
and I'm sure a number of deaths on board for
other reasons. Who do you think is haunting the ship?
Maybe that actually did spend time him on the ship.
What have you seen evidence wise of that? Well, the
most pronounced spirits, at least the ones that we've made
(22:06):
contact with, seemed to be from an accident that took
place about three years after the earthquake, when the Salem
had left Boston and was on the way back to
Greece or the Mediterranean, and she was sailing with the
destroyer named John R. Pierce, and the Pierce was doing
some kind of anti aircraft practice shooting at a toad target.
(22:31):
For some reason, they stopped the practice so stop the drill,
and then when they restarted again, what I'm told is
that they reloaded a gun that had already been loaded.
So when they fired at the gun, mount exploded and
one guy was killed immediately, but several other guys were
(22:51):
brought from the Pierce by helicopter over to the Salem
because she's much bigger and had much better facilities, and
several of those guys died aboard Salem. So I think
that in terms of people that spent a significant amount
of time on the ship, those are the guys that
are most pronounced at this point, I see, And what
kind of activity do you get stemming from them? Are
(23:13):
you ever getting any names or anything like that. We're
starting to get some names, you know, and that's one
of the difficult things because of so many of the
tools we use are prone to yes or no and
things of that nature. It's kind of hard to get
them to express themselves in other ways. But we have
a list of names that we try. One of the
problems we have is that the Cruelest, you know, the
(23:34):
Salem once she was active, had about sixteen d guys aboard,
and over a ten year period, you're talking guys that
spent multiple years, so you're talking ten thousand guys anyway,
and our solid crue list is about six names. We
try as hard as we can. We ask a lot
of names. We have sensitives that come up with names,
(23:55):
and we use those names as much as we can,
but there are very few guys that we actually have
names for. Yeah, that's hard. I mean we ran into
that as well, just when we were investigating. You know,
I'm always very heavy on the history. I love and
really want to identify some of these spirits, especially the
ones who just come off as more aggressive or insistent.
(24:17):
You know, I always am concerned that there's some reason
why they're trying to kind of break through so much.
And I remember going through some of the manifests and
just having a lot of trouble because you don't know, like,
are you dealing with someone who actually passed away here
or are you dealing with someone who just felt like
a really strong emotional attachment and is choosing to revisit
for some reason. And so it's just so hard to
(24:40):
narrow it down. And like you said, lots of tools
that use yes or no answers, which isn't doesn't help
a lot. And of course it's easier now than it was,
you know, years ago, with newspaper databases and things of
that nature. You struggle to find the name John our Pierce,
for example, associated with us as Salem, and then you
(25:00):
kind of work backwards from there, and we were able
to find some names by getting too obituaries of guys
that were killed aboard the ship or that that were
injured aboard the Pierce and died aboard the Salem. So
that that's how you do it. It's painstaking and takes
a lot of work, but that's just such a huge
pat of what we do, especially at a location like
(25:21):
the Salem. You know, the history is just so important
in terms of the paranormal and not the paranormal. Yeah,
so we worked very very hard at it, and we
and we're trying. But it's not easy. No, it's not.
Have you been able to dispel any popular rumors about
the history of the ship or is there anything that
you think people have talked about that's just completely untrue
(25:44):
at this point? Well, I'm not going to say that
we've found our completely untrue, but there are some rumors
about the ship that don't make a whole lot of
sense when you really think about it. You know, I
think when you guys were there, we talked a little
bit about the so called morgue, and you know they
talk about body stacked on bodies in the ships makeshift more.
(26:07):
But you know, when you think about it, the only
time there were that many deaths at one time aboard
the ship was during the Greek earthquake. And when you
think about it, you wonder, why would they if the
ship is in Greece and the people are Greek, why
would they have all those bodies on the ship. They
(26:28):
would take them off the ship, they would take them home.
That's something that a lot of people like to talk about,
you know. And that room in particular is something that
a lot of people like to talk about. It's called
the butter room, and you'll hear people say, you know,
it's kind of wild because nobody really knows why they
call it the butter room, And personally, I think it
probably has something to do with the metal plaque above
(26:50):
the door that says butter room. You know, you got
to use that research brain of yours, you know. You know,
I'm not gonna say we've thoroughly dispelled things, but there
are a lot of talk about the ship, which to
some extent we like. I mean, those are the kinds
of things that bring people to the ship. And if
(27:11):
you burst their balloon a little bit when you get here,
that's okay, because the ship usually makes up for it
in in what it shows them over the course of
the night. Oh absolutely. I mean I think that probably
the actual history is even more fascinating than the history
people might have heard through that kind of historical game
of telephone that people love to play. But for some reason,
makeshift morgues are a big deal. Like I've investigated so
(27:34):
many places that have supposedly become a makeshift morgue for
some sort of disaster, and I don't think I've ever
been able to substantiate one of them. And I think
I revisited it again when we were researching for this
episode of the podcast, and I think we found it
on one like ghost Tour Company's blog, but there's zero,
you know, historical information that we could find to verify it.
(27:59):
So who knows is And I don't think that's a coincidence. Yeah, yeah,
you know. I also I dug up a lot of
information about other haunts that people have seen on board.
They're including someone reporting a dog or they called it
a hellhound or something in the mess hall. Have you
heard of that one before? I can tell you that
the first paranormal experience I had aboard the ship was
(28:21):
hearing a dog wow, And someone else said they got
an e v P of a pig too, which is
just not what you would expect at all. Why do
you think that would happen? I've heard that. I'm not
entirely sure. It sounds like a pick to me, but
maybe it's the dog. Anything's possible, you know. It's interesting though,
when you think, while it's a naval ship, that situation
(28:43):
in Greece in nineteen three must have been really really chaotic,
and the possibilities abound when you think about what may
or may not have come or have been brought aboard
the ship. So while I personally think it's d unlikely
that anyone has ever heard or recorded a pig, I'm
(29:04):
not gonna say it's entirely impossible because, as I said,
people in that kind of distress, who the heck knows
what they felt like they wanted to bring with them
aboard the ship or what they were concerned about. And
I bet you in a lot of cases, the people
taking care of them said, fine, if that's going to
make these people feel a little bit better, that's it,
okay with us. Yeah, Now, what would you say is
(29:25):
like the most prevalent type of activity people encounter on board, well,
at this point in time, I'm gonna say it's shadow activity.
I think, you know, we're at the point now where
a couple of weeks ago a group came aboard, and
before we even started investigating, when I was giving them
a tour of the ship with the lights on just
(29:47):
to kind of show them where we were going to
be going later on in the night and things of
that nature, we had a shadow run across the hallway
in front of us as we were making our way
up the ship. So these are the kinds of things
that are happening on a really gular basis. Now I'm
going to say shadow activity right now. That's interesting. I mean,
I've I've investigated a few ships in my time, and
(30:08):
shadows seem to be very prevalent. And I don't know
if it's because it's that kind of like residual activity
of people kind of making their rounds or just still
kind of tending to their duties or what, but it's
just hard to think, you know, when we go into
these places, it's our groups of you know, however many people,
but then you think about how many people were actually
on board at any one time and what that must
(30:29):
have looked like and how they just knew their way
around so well that they would bolt from place to place.
So it kind of makes sense that you would see
these shadows running up and down these ladder steps and
down the hallways. It's so strange, absolutely, And that's one
of the great things about the Salem is that it's
such a mixed bag. There are sailors who died aboard
(30:52):
the ship, as we all know, there are civilians people
that were Greek that were killed during the earthquake who
are still aboard. And then, as you well know, we
have my friend back half, who I don't think died
aboard the ship, but I think this is a guy
who this is where he chose to come and vend eternity.
So I think pretty much, you know, whatever you think,
(31:13):
whatever you look at in terms of these entities, I
think they're representative board the ship. Yeah, now, that gentleman.
For people who aren't familiar, he's in kind of the
mess hall area. And I know when we investigated he
swore at us repeatedly in our recorders, but he seems
to have kind of an affinity towards you. How are
(31:34):
things going with that, Well, it's kind of interesting, you're right,
he and I I think because we're kind of both
grumpy old sailors. I think we kind of developed a
relationship over the years. But it's kind of interesting. We
have some new things happening on the ship. We have
an entity that has kind of become dominant, and the
(31:54):
chief this seems to be kind of laying low at
the moment. We've had sensitives tell us that he is
going to just kind of sit back and let us
figure out what's going on and and then he'll come back.
He's not bothered by the assentity, but he just doesn't
want anything to do with it. So he seems to
be kind of laying low at the moment. We don't
hear from him very much. Well, I mean, he's not shy,
(32:16):
so I feel like when he's ready, he'll probably very
much make himself. No, No, he most certainly is not shy.
That e VP that you recorded of him telling me
exactly what he thought I should do was about as
clear as a recording I've ever heard. I think, Yeah,
I'm pretty sure he dropped an F bomb if I
remember correctly, generally didn't. Yeah, that was very very clear.
(32:39):
So so you're welcome for that. That's what we bring
out in the ghosts when we come around. So you
said that you said you would had never been so
happy to hear somebody tell you to fops as that
too funny. Um. Now, is there any activity aboard that
you would consider to be potentially dangerous? I don't think so.
(33:02):
People certainly get touched regularly aboard, but never anything of
any consequence. You know, women occasionally have somebody blow in
the area. I will kind of let my you know,
I'm working at home now, I don't have to go
to the office, so I have nobody to impress, and
I'll kind of let my hair go. And when I
go back AFT. I think the chief lets hisself be
(33:23):
known by pulling my hair occasionally, if by telling you
need a haircut, telling me I need a haircut. But
like I said, this new entity is an enigma to
us and we're trying to figure him out. We don't
think that he's entirely friendly. But I certainly wouldn't characterize
anything aboard the ship is dangerous. Yeah, I mean, I
think people wonder that. To me. The only thing I
(33:45):
ever worry about in spaces like that is that it's
not very easily traversed. You know, there's a lot of
places you can trip, are a a lot of places you
could fall, and so you know, I always warn people like,
if you do get startled, you know, make sure you
know where they always keep about your wits, know where
you are, stay planted, because you know you could jump
and accidentally fall down a set of stairs or something.
(34:08):
I think that's the most dangerous. I think anything could be. Yeah, no,
you're absolutely right, And that's kind of part of my
spiel when I keep people before we get going. And
you know, it's a big ship, so you can't expect
a one time visitor to know their way around. But
I do try to tell people to try to be
as aware as possible of where they are in relation
(34:28):
to hatches, in relation to ladders. You know, you certainly
don't want somebody to turn and dart the wrong direction
real quick, because if they don't know where they are
or where they're going, there can be very nasty consequences there.
There are a couple of places on the ship that
when I give my tour, I'll stop in a certain
place because it's concerning that you walk through a hatch
(34:51):
and there's an open hatch, right on the floor next
to you. So there are definitely areas like that that
can be dangerous, and we do the best we can
to warm people about that and wanted them to keep
their wits about them when they walk around the ship. Yeah,
I mean, it's amaze. We're really fortunate. We were there,
you know, for four days or so, and we have
our small crew and us so just by ten of
(35:13):
us total. And there were many times where I would
go check on a camera or something, or go try
to look for some information in one of the museum
areas or something, and then just be completely turned around.
And I think I remember correctly. There might be yellow
stripes or some sort of stripe or something on the floor.
I would cling to that thing. I would find that
(35:33):
and know that I would be able to find my
way back. But you know, if we didn't do a
headcount at the end of the night, I very well
could still be there on the Salem months later lost
and that wouldn't be an entirely bad thing. No, I mean,
my daughter would probably miss me, but it's fine. Yeah,
there is a there's a broad yellow line that goes
(35:56):
down the passageways on the main deck. When I give tours.
I tell people just think back to when you were
in prison and follow the yellow line, and as long
as you don't screy, you should be okay. But you're right.
The museum areas in particular, it's very very easy to
get turned around because they're all connected. And that's the
one part of the ship where you could go down
(36:18):
a ladder and if you come up a different ladder,
you could be on the other side of the ship.
Oh yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure I did that a
couple of times, but I made it so ultimately with
the ghosts on board the Salem and just you know,
what you do there and everything. What are your hopes
(36:40):
for the Salem over time? You know, that's a good question,
and it's something we kind of wrestle with a lot
of the time. We have people come aboard who talked
to us about helping people cross over, and you know,
if you're in a position to help these entities, then
certainly that's what you want to do. But we wrestle
with it because it's what we do, so we do
(37:02):
kind of go back and forth. But we have been
able to help some people go over, and there are
certainly enough entities aboard the ship that are looking for
loved ones and things of that nature that ultimately we
would love to help get to where they ultimately want
to be. And that's really all you can you know.
I don't think there's anything else you can really hope for.
(37:22):
I mean, we certainly hope to make the Salem well
known enough that enough people visit her that she can
stay in Quincy. I think that's where she belongs, and
it's a constant battle to keep her there. But yeah,
other than that, I think, you know, helping the amphonies
as best we can, I think that's really all we
can hope for. Yeah, I mean, I think that's something
(37:43):
that I've found is I've investigated for so long, you know,
I definitely kind of thought of that idea of crossing
things over long ago, and I think over time my
theory has evolved to this idea, which I talked about
in my book a lot. But this idea that I
can't cross someone over to place that I don't even
know for sure exists, and so I've been striving more
(38:04):
to figure out why they're still here, and that usually
produces more reaction or activity, Like I do feel like
they're here, not because they don't know where they need
to go, but because there's something that they left behind,
you know, that kind of classic unfinished business. And you know,
I could see that really being the case with the Salem.
(38:25):
You know, there were a lot of lives that ended
very suddenly, either on board or because of the earthquake,
or people who may have left something behind emotionally even
if they didn't die on board. Oh sure. You know.
One of the entities that I speak too, primarily with
dowsing rods, I found is a young man that we
call Nko, a Greek man, and and he seems to
(38:49):
enjoy talking to us. You know, he always comes to
us and we enjoy interacting with him. But I always
feel terrible after we talked to him because he tells
us that he's looking for his family. And you think, man,
if there was anything you could do to help this individual,
(39:10):
whether it was send him to wire his family is
or bring his family forward to him, whatever it would be,
you can't help. But wishing you you could do, Yeah,
that's hard. I mean we have done in the past
where we found kind of wayward spirits like that, where
we have tracked down their family line or their ancestors
(39:31):
and descendants even and kind of produced that, like brought
them actual birth certificates and death certificates and census records
and just showed them like, this is what happened to
your family, this is where they ended up, this is
you know, and tell them the story and that sometimes help.
But until you can identify Nico for sure, that might
be really hard to do, especially with a mass casualty
(39:53):
like that. Sure, yeah, you're absolutely right. I don't think
there are any records in terms of in terms of
the Greeks that suation. In terms of the names, no,
I looked. I looked. You can't find out who was
brought on board and who wasn't things like that. So
it's tough. It is really tough. Well, how now with
the Salem, how what can people do? They can take tours,
(40:14):
they can go on investigations. How do they find out
all that information? Well, the Salem's website is uss dash
Salem dot org and they can get plenty of information there.
My organization, the Great of Boston Paranormal Associates, we're all
over the place www dot v g, b p A
(40:34):
dot com. We're on Facebook as well, and we have
a page now called the USS Salem Paranormal Experience on Facebook,
that's where we advertise our events and things of that nature.
There are plenty of opportunities to get aboard the ship,
but I always try to urge people if they're to
local anyway, it's a great take. You know, on a
(40:56):
Saturday or Sunday afternoon, she's kind of beat up on
the outs side, but once you get aboard, she is
amazingly well preserved. It's a great thing, a great place
to go and get a good understanding of our shared history. Yeah,
I find it to be fascinating. I think that New
England is very lucky to have her. You know. I
brought my daughter when we were filming and she just
(41:17):
loved exploring and learning all about the history there. So
hats off to you and everyone associated with the Salem
for keeping her local and keeping her going in some way,
because you know, these kind of opportunities are becoming harder
and harder to come by for people to experience. I'll
be sure I appreciate that. But as there are a
(41:39):
lot of people involved in not only I mean just
in doing what we do, I'm very very fortunate, you know.
I tell people the ship is my obsession, and I
was fortunate to find a group of people who are
dumb enough to to buy into it. But the truth
is I'm the luckiest guy in the world in terms
of the team that we put to other and and
(42:01):
that's just the paranormal side. The ship itself has a very,
very dedicated group of volunteers and fought too many to
mention absolutely well. I really appreciate you taking the time.
I can't wait to get back, hopefully very soon. I
think this is going to be great for people to
get a greater understanding of all the work that goes
on behind the scenes and also what they can expect
(42:22):
to encounter if they climb on board the U S. S. Salem.
Thank you very much for having to appreciate it, and
we would love to have you back anytime. Yes, thank
you so much. The US S. Salem, like so many
of the haunted places we visit, holds a special place
in the hearts of the many volunteers and benefactors who
(42:43):
worked tirelessly to keep her afloat. When you visit the ship,
just about every volunteer you meet is a VET, and
while the Salem is no longer in service, you can
tell the sense of pride and nostalgia they feel as
they show you around. It's also goes aside, just a
wonderful place to visit and take in some very important history.
So I urge you, next time you're in the New
(43:05):
England area, pay a visit to the United States Naval
ship Building Museum and the U. S. S. Salem. If
you see don tell him I say hi. And if
you get lost in her depths, don't forget. The yellow
line leads back to the top deck until next time.
I Maybe Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road
(43:30):
is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and
Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and hosted
by Amy Bruney. Executive producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams,
and Matt Frederick. The show is produced by rema Ill
Kali and Trevor Young. Taylor Haggerdorn is the show's researcher.
(43:50):
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky listener discretion is advised.
Back in I was investigating a legendary aircraft carrier, the
U s S. York Town, with the show Ghost Hunters.
(00:22):
This was not the first ship I had investigated, and
would very much not be my last. But I had
an encounter on board that vessel that is indicative of
just how wildly haunted these ships can be. During our
investigation of the York Town, Adam Bury and I were
standing on the flight deck of the carrier when off
in the distance, we saw a man walking very purposefully
(00:44):
across the deck. He wasn't coming toward us, rather, he
was walking toward the other end of the ship. We
were told we were alone on board save for one
security guard who would be in his office should we
need him. We also had a radio directly to this man,
so we meet at ly walked him to see if
he had left his post. He had not, so who
(01:05):
were we looking at? Had someone managed to make it
on board? We called out to this man as he walked.
He did not stop. He did not hesitate or slow down.
Most people when they catch sight of a camera crew,
they have a response like a deer in the headlights,
they freeze. Even so, most people who hear other people
yelling for their attention at the very least slow down
(01:27):
or look their way. This man didn't done of those things.
He just kept walking like he knew what he was
doing and where he was going, until he disappeared behind
the edge of the Aircraft Carriers Island, which is the
command center for flight deck operations. Adam and I, puzzled,
had begun running towards this man. Our camera operator and
(01:47):
sound guy in tow just seconds after the man rounded
that corner. We were there as well. We were upset
someone had contaminated our investigation. We take what we do
very seriously, and we were very determined to know who
this was and how they got on board. Except when
we went around that corner we found an empty space.
(02:07):
There was one door, but it was padlocks shut with
a lock that looked like it hadn't been touched in years,
judging by the amount of rust on it. The only
place that man could have gone was overboard, and we
most definitely would have heard a splash. I was not surprised,
as someone who has investigated over a dozen ships, some
multiple times. I found them well stocked with ghosts and spirits,
(02:29):
many still doing the jobs they so faithfully and dutifully
performed in life. So join me as we take a
trip to another of these haunted ships. She's lovingly called
the Sea Witch. I'm Amy Brunei, and welcome to Haunted Road.
(02:53):
The U S. S. Salem actually had post war beginnings
plans for heavy cruisers to take on global navies pre
day World War Two, of course, but when the war
came to a close in early September nineteen forty five,
America's latest and greatest answer to naval warfare was in
its infancy. The United States military needed a fleet, and
one that hadn't seen the dogs of war and been
(03:15):
chewed to pieces in the process. The US was solidifying
its position in the Pacific and trying to outpace the
Russians in naval supremacy. Construction on the us AS Salem
started on July four, ninety five, in Quincy, Massachusetts. The
Salem launched on March twenty five, nineteen forty seven. There
were two iterations of the Salem before this heavy cruiser.
(03:38):
The first Salem was named for the city in Massachusetts.
The second Salem was named in honor of the first ship,
and the third Salem was again named for the city
in Massachusetts. She was the last of her kind and
today is the only remaining heavy cruiser in the world,
which really puts into perspective how special she is and
how lucky New England is to have her. Now some
(04:00):
logistical history of the Salem, because she has seen some
things in her time. The Salem was commissioned at the
Boston Navy Yard on May fourteenth, nineteen forty nine. The
ship stopped in her namesake town on July four ninety nine,
before undergoing three months of rigorous testing at Guantanamo Bay.
After that, she again returned to Boston to undergo repairs.
(04:22):
Her crew nicknamed her the Sea Witch, a name that
has very much remained after spending three months aboard her
docked at Salem. In May of nineteen fifty, Salem became
the first flagship for the U. S sixth Fleet, headquartered
in Naples, Italy. During this the first of seven deployments
to the Mediterranean as fleet flagship, Salem punctuated her training
(04:43):
at sea with ports and Malta, Italy, France Greece, Turkey, Lebanon,
and Algeria. Salem also reported to Guantanamo every year to
complete training. She also participated in other trainings performed with
other countries, though she very notably never fired her mighty
guns and anger. The Salem's very presence served as a
(05:05):
stimulus for peace during the troubled times that became known
as the Cold War. According to history books, she served
as a lady of diplomacy rather than as a means
of exerting brute force. She resumed her flagship duties in
nineteen fifty six during the Suez Crisis. That battle over
the Suez Canal was also an attempt to remove Egypt's
(05:27):
president Gamal abdel Nasser from power. Israel first invaded Egypt,
followed by the UK and France. They eventually extricated themselves,
though after the US Soviet Union and the U N
applied political pressure. This event concluded the end of Britain's
superpower status. But what about In pop culture? In nineteen
(05:47):
fifty six, the Salem was cast as the German pocket
battleship Admiral Graf Spy in the Battle of the River Plate.
There were significant differences between the graf Spy and the Salem,
not the least of which was that one was a
German ship during World War Two. The differences were explained
by the historical fact that the ship's carpenters often camouflaged
(06:08):
graph spe to resemble foreign vessels. Salem had another cinematic
moment when she made a cameo in the action packed
thriller from Disney called The Finest Hour, starring Casey Affleck
and Chris pine In. In nineteen fifty eight, Salem made
the trek to Monaco for the celebration of the birth
of Princess Grace Kelly's and Prince Rainier the third son,
(06:30):
Albert the second. All very interesting, but why is she
so haunted? And what kind of activity do people experience
on board? While the Salem never fired a shot in anger,
she saw her fair share of death. Most famously, she
was one of the first ships to arrive to provide
aid during the Great Cafalonia earthquake in Greece in August
(06:51):
of nineteen fifty three. To put into perspective what happened
on the islands, let me describe the conditions the Salem
arrived too. Now, the nineteen fifty three Ionian Earthquake, also
known as the Great Cafalonia Earthquake, struck the southern Ionian
Islands on August twelfth, nineteen fifty three. In mid August,
(07:12):
there were over one hundred thirteen recorded earthquakes in the
region between Cafalonia and Zecinthos, and the most destructive was
at August twelfth earthquake. The event measured six point eight
on the moment magnitude scale, and it raised the whole
island of Cavalonia by twenty four inches and caused widespread
damage throughout the islands of Cafalonia and Zecanthos. When disaster
(07:35):
struck on that Wednesday, August twelve, a m Argostolian was
a town of about eighty five hundred people, swollen by
vacationers from the Greek mainland. It was the biggest community
in the three Ionian Sea islands and it took the
brunt of the quake. After the large quake, nothing was
left of the city but piles of bricks and splintered wood,
(07:57):
a few cracked shells of houses, and shocked survivors crowding
the Argostolian Bay sides. British medical officers with the destroyer
Darling were the first to arrive with outside aid. They
set up first aid stations on the beach and treated survivors.
The Salem arrived Thursday morning, the first unit of the
sixth Fleet to reach the scene. The Greek government sent
(08:18):
to amphibious vessels and a contingent of soldiers. According to
newspaper articles of the time, the doctors and orderlies of
these ships treated perhaps a thousand casualties, but they never
could confirm. Many said there were just too many to count.
The most seriously hurt were evacuated. The rest remained on
the beaches bandaged, and Dull was shocked, asking only to
(08:40):
leave sailors aboard. The Salem reported finding the local hospital
leveled and a local insane asylum destroyed as well. Desperate
nurses had changed patients of the asylum to trees. One
medic from the Salem called it real snake pit stuff.
They have got one nurse and one old attendant watching
fifty inmates. There was a jail too, with about two
(09:04):
fifty prisoners. When the jail collapsed, the prisoners ran loose.
Greek soldiers and police rounded them up and put them
in an improvised stockade surrounded by barbed wire. Leading the
American rescue work was Lieutenant RB. Jacobs of the Salem,
the ship's control officer from Revere, Massachusetts. He sent search
teams into the hills and digging through town looking for
(09:26):
trapped people. They found scores of living victims trapped beneath debris,
some had been there for two days. They also found
people hiding and afraid to return to Argostolian. Local legends
said one day Argostolian would fall into the sea, and
as far as they were concerned, it was happening. There
are many rumors as to how many people were treated
(09:48):
on the actual ship itself. Most articles of the time
point to make shift hospitals and operating rooms being assembled
on the shore, but it also stands to reason that
some of the more seriously injured would have been brought
aboard for treatment than perhaps evacuated to other local hospitals.
Many rumors point to the ship having been used as
a morgue for the between four hundred forty and eight
(10:10):
hundred people killed, but this also remains unsubstantiated and, considering
the heavy presence of other rescue ships in the area,
highly unlikely. Regardless The tragedy of the Greek earthquakes and
subsequent rescue mission surely left an indelible scar on the
Salem and her crew. Today, there are reports of Greek
(10:31):
speaking ghosts aboard the Salem, including the apparition of an
angry Grecian girl encountered in the mess hall. Folks claim
she only speaks Greek and half her face is missing.
There was also a ghost rumor to have been a
civilian volunteer during the earthquake who died by suicide after
coming upon the corpse of his mutilated wife, a good story,
(10:52):
but again completely unproven. The rescue mission in Greece was
not the only source of potential hauntings on board. There
was at least one incident where sailors from another ship
were brought aboard after an explosion. The Salem's medical facilities
were better suited to treating them, but three perished. People
have reported hearing footsteps when no one is around. Others
(11:13):
have heard disembodied voices and loud bangs. Chairs have also
reportedly been thrown. The printer at the museum, Peter Bloomberg,
reported a mysterious figure appearing before him in one of
the ship's hallways. The figure stared at him, then descended
the staircase. Peter was alone on the ship at the time.
Salem's head archivist, John Connor, heard his name called when
(11:36):
he was in a sleeping quarter. He also has heard
mysterious footsteps that he can't find the source for. He
says these happenings don't bother him, but that you get
the feelings someone is watching you, and you get chills
up your spine. There's the spirit of a man they
called John, who is apparently the spirit of a former
tour guide. Reportedly, people see him and talk to him,
(11:58):
especially in the area of the anchor windless room. There
the anger would be reeled in and out. There are
also rumors of babies crying, which doesn't seem to mesh Historically,
some investigators have said babies were born on the Salem
because in the hospital area there is a table with stirrups,
But as any woman will tell you, those stirrups aren't
(12:19):
always used just for childbirth. While women never served on
the Salem, it does stand to reason perhaps this table
and its stirrups were there for rescue efforts, though as
of now there is no documentation to verify any babies
were born on the ship. The U S S. Salem
was decommissioned in January of nineteen fifty nine. In there
(12:40):
was talk of reactivating her service as she was still
very capable, but the funding from Congress was not guaranteed,
so she was not resurrected. In October, the Salem came
full circle and made her way to her birthplace, Quincy, Massachusetts.
She's been a museum ship ever since. Up next, we
(13:00):
will talk to paranormal investigator and ship volunteer Don D. Christopharo.
He's a no nonsense veteran and historian with some great
ghost stories from the Salem. He's also a man who
I think the ship has a soft spot in her
heart for. Also, you'll hear about my experience on the Salem,
one that I've never experienced before and have never encountered since.
(13:42):
I am sitting here now with Don D. Christopharo, who
is a paranormal investigator who's very involved in the USS Salem.
We have worked with him in the past. If you
saw our episode of Kindred Spirits that we did um
the Ship, Don was our client there and it's very
all around solid dude who knows a lot about the
(14:03):
history of the ship and I think has a very
special relationship with the Salem. So thanks for joining us down.
Thanks for asking me, Amy, I appreciate it, of course. Now,
we filmed on the Salem during the pandemic. That was
one of our first cases that we kind of ventured out,
and I know you are close to tours at the time.
How have things changed at the Salem since then? Well,
(14:27):
I mean we've gotten much more back to normal in
terms of how we managed the tours. You know, we
tried last year to do it as normally I guess
is the only word I can use, as possible, you know,
but we split into smaller groups and kind of spread
people out a little bit more, which, as you know,
on the ship isn't really an easy thing to do.
But this season, you know, we we have bigger groups now,
(14:49):
and of course we're not wearing masks at least for
the time being, right, so things are much more the
way they used to be at the moment. I'm fortunate
and that I've actually been to the Salem quite a
few times times, and you know, I just I love
how involved everyone is with the ship and just kind
of keeping her in this state of availability to people
(15:10):
to come and check out. I know there's a lot
of paranormal investigations on board, but what else happens on
the Salem. The ship is open all weekend Friday, Saturday,
and Sunday during the summer, open to the public. And
it's not just the Salem. It'st the United States Naval
Shipbuilding Museum UM, the museum spaces below decks. Most of
(15:32):
the areas that were cruise berthing when the ship was
active have been converted into museum spaces. And Quincy has
a very, very long and rich shipbuilding tradition, and the
Salem is the great celebration of that. So she's open
quite a bit, and there there are other events that
take place, community type events on the ship as well.
You know, the volunteers, as you said, are are all
(15:54):
very very invested and working as hard as they can
to keep the ship up, and we worked very hard
to make show the ship is not going to go
anywhere to be frank, yeah, thankfully. Now do you think
that any of the hauntings on board have anything to
do with the various artifacts that you have brought in
for the museums, Well, it's kind of interesting that you
should say that, because just recently we've started to hear
(16:17):
some music that's much older than the ship itself, and
we're looking at some of the artifacts in the museum
that are related to the shipyard rather than the ship,
and trying to determine whether or not some of this
stuff has something to do with those objects instead of
the ship itself. Yeah, I mean, that's really interesting. It
wouldn't surprise me because I remember just going through the collections,
(16:40):
they're just amazed at everything you guys have curated. A
lot of those artifacts have seen some, you know, really
interesting times in history. So who knows what you could
have brought on board in addition to the spirits you
already have lately. Oh, absolutely, no, you're absolutely right. I guess.
I guess crazy active is is the best question I
can use, you know. I mean, we have our quiet
(17:02):
nights like everybody else does, but they are a few
and far between, and to the point where we're kind
of spoiled when we go other places because of the
volume of activity on the ship. The shadow activity is
picking up, the noise activity is ridiculous. At this point,
the e vps are becoming much more clearer, and I think,
(17:23):
as you know, they have context a lot of them,
which is which is really awesome. Yeah, and I love that.
That's kind of my favorite kind of haunting, you know.
And to this day, the Salem is where I had
one of my strangest paranoral experiences. And I when I
try to explain it to people, I guess it doesn't
seem that intense, but for me it really was because
(17:46):
basically I was standing in the mess hall area and
I was looking kind of towards that little it's it's
next to the kitchen area that it's like it's kind
of a storage area I think for pots and pans
or what have you, and the two scullery the two
scullery areas. Yeah, and I'm staring at that, and I
see these kind of twinkling lights up in the corner,
(18:07):
and my brain is processing it as there's some sort
of window there and there is some sort of like
ship going by with a mast or like some sort
of lights going by, and I kind of just filed
it away as you know, something outside that I'm seeing
through a window. And then it dawned on me there's
no window there, and I'm just looking at these little
(18:30):
twinkling lights, and I'm thinking, what am I looking at
right now? And it went on for like a solid
twenty seconds, I feel like, and then they just kind
of stopped, and I just remember, like almost I thought
something medically, what was wrong with me? I was like, like,
what's happening? Am I having like a stroke or like?
And I started kind of having a little panic attack
(18:51):
and I was like no, no, And literally later it
was either later on that day or the next night,
you just happened to run into us in the library
and you were Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention,
sometimes people see these little twinkling fairy lights in this area,
which is exactly what I saw. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah.
I was very thankful. And I don't think we've really
(19:13):
addressed that part of it on the show, because I
think we just saw you in passing. I don't know
that they were cameras rolling, but I remember just thinking,
oh my gosh, Okay, it wasn't in my head. I
don't need to go see a medical doctor, but yeah,
that was. I mean, I don't know what causes that.
What what do you think? I know other people have
seen that. What do you think causes something like that. Well,
it's kind of interesting. We were at the point now
(19:34):
where we've determined that there are a lot of spirits
on the ship we weren't aware of previously that maybe
aren't from the ship itself, that are from the shipyard
and things like that, And I've kind of come to
the conclusion that there are many of them that aren't
quite strong enough to really manifest in a solid way,
that is to say, in an audio way or visually.
(19:56):
And I've come to believe that the lights are their manifestation,
something that's not quite strong enough to do something that's
going to jump out at us, but that are making
themselves known in a little bit less obvious way. Yeah,
I mean that makes perfect sense to me. I mean
I still to Like I said, it just still stands
as one of my strangest experiences because so many paranormal
(20:17):
experiences are kind of fleeting or quick, but this I
just stared at for so long without even realizing what
I was looking at. I wondered too, just because how
often do you all host paranormal investigations on board? Would
you say? Pretty much every weekend? Now, this past weekend
was both Friday and Saturday night. Ah, and I think
that other spirits might be coming in. You know, we've
(20:41):
seen that before with these locations where you're hosting investigations
on a regular basis and you have a bunch of
people sitting in the dark just intensely thinking that they
would like to see a ghost or make contact and
anything he wants to talk, or anyone who wants to
talk and come forward. And it makes you wonder, you
know how many of these kind of wayward spirits sense
(21:02):
that and that kind of attracts them to a place
like that. Oh, that's definitely a possibility, you know. I
mean people bring things with them as well, and we
think that's part of it. We've had psychics come aboard,
sensitives who as soon as they walk into the main wardroom,
which is where we kind of gather as groups, who
say that they're just coming at them from all directions
(21:22):
as soon as they come aboard. So you know, as
I said, they're not all pronounced, they don't all make
themselves known to us on a regular basis. But there's
no doubt in our minds now that we can't even
estimate the number of entities there are aboard the ship. Okay,
so I know that obviously they say famously that Salem
never fired a shot in anger, right, So we never
(21:44):
really saw any action per se, but definitely saw its
share of tragedy, like there was the earthquake rescue mission,
and I'm sure a number of deaths on board for
other reasons. Who do you think is haunting the ship?
Maybe that actually did spend time him on the ship.
What have you seen evidence wise of that? Well, the
most pronounced spirits, at least the ones that we've made
(22:06):
contact with, seemed to be from an accident that took
place about three years after the earthquake, when the Salem
had left Boston and was on the way back to
Greece or the Mediterranean, and she was sailing with the
destroyer named John R. Pierce, and the Pierce was doing
some kind of anti aircraft practice shooting at a toad target.
(22:31):
For some reason, they stopped the practice so stop the drill,
and then when they restarted again, what I'm told is
that they reloaded a gun that had already been loaded.
So when they fired at the gun, mount exploded and
one guy was killed immediately, but several other guys were
(22:51):
brought from the Pierce by helicopter over to the Salem
because she's much bigger and had much better facilities, and
several of those guys died aboard Salem. So I think
that in terms of people that spent a significant amount
of time on the ship, those are the guys that
are most pronounced at this point, I see, And what
kind of activity do you get stemming from them? Are
(23:13):
you ever getting any names or anything like that. We're
starting to get some names, you know, and that's one
of the difficult things because of so many of the
tools we use are prone to yes or no and
things of that nature. It's kind of hard to get
them to express themselves in other ways. But we have
a list of names that we try. One of the
problems we have is that the Cruelest, you know, the
(23:34):
Salem once she was active, had about sixteen d guys aboard,
and over a ten year period, you're talking guys that
spent multiple years, so you're talking ten thousand guys anyway,
and our solid crue list is about six names. We
try as hard as we can. We ask a lot
of names. We have sensitives that come up with names,
(23:55):
and we use those names as much as we can,
but there are very few guys that we actually have
names for. Yeah, that's hard. I mean we ran into
that as well, just when we were investigating. You know,
I'm always very heavy on the history. I love and
really want to identify some of these spirits, especially the
ones who just come off as more aggressive or insistent.
(24:17):
You know, I always am concerned that there's some reason
why they're trying to kind of break through so much.
And I remember going through some of the manifests and
just having a lot of trouble because you don't know, like,
are you dealing with someone who actually passed away here
or are you dealing with someone who just felt like
a really strong emotional attachment and is choosing to revisit
for some reason. And so it's just so hard to
(24:40):
narrow it down. And like you said, lots of tools
that use yes or no answers, which isn't doesn't help
a lot. And of course it's easier now than it was,
you know, years ago, with newspaper databases and things of
that nature. You struggle to find the name John our Pierce,
for example, associated with us as Salem, and then you
(25:00):
kind of work backwards from there, and we were able
to find some names by getting too obituaries of guys
that were killed aboard the ship or that that were
injured aboard the Pierce and died aboard the Salem. So
that that's how you do it. It's painstaking and takes
a lot of work, but that's just such a huge
pat of what we do, especially at a location like
(25:21):
the Salem. You know, the history is just so important
in terms of the paranormal and not the paranormal. Yeah,
so we worked very very hard at it, and we
and we're trying. But it's not easy. No, it's not.
Have you been able to dispel any popular rumors about
the history of the ship or is there anything that
you think people have talked about that's just completely untrue
(25:44):
at this point? Well, I'm not going to say that
we've found our completely untrue, but there are some rumors
about the ship that don't make a whole lot of
sense when you really think about it. You know, I
think when you guys were there, we talked a little
bit about the so called morgue, and you know they
talk about body stacked on bodies in the ships makeshift more.
(26:07):
But you know, when you think about it, the only
time there were that many deaths at one time aboard
the ship was during the Greek earthquake. And when you
think about it, you wonder, why would they if the
ship is in Greece and the people are Greek, why
would they have all those bodies on the ship. They
(26:28):
would take them off the ship, they would take them home.
That's something that a lot of people like to talk about,
you know. And that room in particular is something that
a lot of people like to talk about. It's called
the butter room, and you'll hear people say, you know,
it's kind of wild because nobody really knows why they
call it the butter room, And personally, I think it
probably has something to do with the metal plaque above
(26:50):
the door that says butter room. You know, you got
to use that research brain of yours, you know. You know,
I'm not gonna say we've thoroughly dispelled things, but there
are a lot of talk about the ship, which to
some extent we like. I mean, those are the kinds
of things that bring people to the ship. And if
(27:11):
you burst their balloon a little bit when you get here,
that's okay, because the ship usually makes up for it
in in what it shows them over the course of
the night. Oh absolutely. I mean I think that probably
the actual history is even more fascinating than the history
people might have heard through that kind of historical game
of telephone that people love to play. But for some reason,
makeshift morgues are a big deal. Like I've investigated so
(27:34):
many places that have supposedly become a makeshift morgue for
some sort of disaster, and I don't think I've ever
been able to substantiate one of them. And I think
I revisited it again when we were researching for this
episode of the podcast, and I think we found it
on one like ghost Tour Company's blog, but there's zero,
you know, historical information that we could find to verify it.
(27:59):
So who knows is And I don't think that's a coincidence. Yeah, yeah,
you know. I also I dug up a lot of
information about other haunts that people have seen on board.
They're including someone reporting a dog or they called it
a hellhound or something in the mess hall. Have you
heard of that one before? I can tell you that
the first paranormal experience I had aboard the ship was
(28:21):
hearing a dog wow, And someone else said they got
an e v P of a pig too, which is
just not what you would expect at all. Why do
you think that would happen? I've heard that. I'm not
entirely sure. It sounds like a pick to me, but
maybe it's the dog. Anything's possible, you know. It's interesting though,
when you think, while it's a naval ship, that situation
(28:43):
in Greece in nineteen three must have been really really chaotic,
and the possibilities abound when you think about what may
or may not have come or have been brought aboard
the ship. So while I personally think it's d unlikely
that anyone has ever heard or recorded a pig, I'm
(29:04):
not gonna say it's entirely impossible because, as I said,
people in that kind of distress, who the heck knows
what they felt like they wanted to bring with them
aboard the ship or what they were concerned about. And
I bet you in a lot of cases, the people
taking care of them said, fine, if that's going to
make these people feel a little bit better, that's it,
okay with us. Yeah, Now, what would you say is
(29:25):
like the most prevalent type of activity people encounter on board, well,
at this point in time, I'm gonna say it's shadow activity.
I think, you know, we're at the point now where
a couple of weeks ago a group came aboard, and
before we even started investigating, when I was giving them
a tour of the ship with the lights on just
(29:47):
to kind of show them where we were going to
be going later on in the night and things of
that nature, we had a shadow run across the hallway
in front of us as we were making our way
up the ship. So these are the kinds of things
that are happening on a really gular basis. Now I'm
going to say shadow activity right now. That's interesting. I mean,
I've I've investigated a few ships in my time, and
(30:08):
shadows seem to be very prevalent. And I don't know
if it's because it's that kind of like residual activity
of people kind of making their rounds or just still
kind of tending to their duties or what, but it's
just hard to think, you know, when we go into
these places, it's our groups of you know, however many people,
but then you think about how many people were actually
on board at any one time and what that must
(30:29):
have looked like and how they just knew their way
around so well that they would bolt from place to place.
So it kind of makes sense that you would see
these shadows running up and down these ladder steps and
down the hallways. It's so strange, absolutely, And that's one
of the great things about the Salem is that it's
such a mixed bag. There are sailors who died aboard
(30:52):
the ship, as we all know, there are civilians people
that were Greek that were killed during the earthquake who
are still aboard. And then, as you well know, we
have my friend back half, who I don't think died
aboard the ship, but I think this is a guy
who this is where he chose to come and vend eternity.
So I think pretty much, you know, whatever you think,
(31:13):
whatever you look at in terms of these entities, I
think they're representative board the ship. Yeah, now, that gentleman.
For people who aren't familiar, he's in kind of the
mess hall area. And I know when we investigated he
swore at us repeatedly in our recorders, but he seems
to have kind of an affinity towards you. How are
(31:34):
things going with that, Well, it's kind of interesting, you're right,
he and I I think because we're kind of both
grumpy old sailors. I think we kind of developed a
relationship over the years. But it's kind of interesting. We
have some new things happening on the ship. We have
an entity that has kind of become dominant, and the
(31:54):
chief this seems to be kind of laying low at
the moment. We've had sensitives tell us that he is
going to just kind of sit back and let us
figure out what's going on and and then he'll come back.
He's not bothered by the assentity, but he just doesn't
want anything to do with it. So he seems to
be kind of laying low at the moment. We don't
hear from him very much. Well, I mean, he's not shy,
(32:16):
so I feel like when he's ready, he'll probably very
much make himself. No, No, he most certainly is not shy.
That e VP that you recorded of him telling me
exactly what he thought I should do was about as
clear as a recording I've ever heard. I think, Yeah,
I'm pretty sure he dropped an F bomb if I
remember correctly, generally didn't. Yeah, that was very very clear.
(32:39):
So so you're welcome for that. That's what we bring
out in the ghosts when we come around. So you
said that you said you would had never been so
happy to hear somebody tell you to fops as that
too funny. Um. Now, is there any activity aboard that
you would consider to be potentially dangerous? I don't think so.
(33:02):
People certainly get touched regularly aboard, but never anything of
any consequence. You know, women occasionally have somebody blow in
the area. I will kind of let my you know,
I'm working at home now, I don't have to go
to the office, so I have nobody to impress, and
I'll kind of let my hair go. And when I
go back AFT. I think the chief lets hisself be
(33:23):
known by pulling my hair occasionally, if by telling you
need a haircut, telling me I need a haircut. But
like I said, this new entity is an enigma to
us and we're trying to figure him out. We don't
think that he's entirely friendly. But I certainly wouldn't characterize
anything aboard the ship is dangerous. Yeah, I mean, I
think people wonder that. To me. The only thing I
(33:45):
ever worry about in spaces like that is that it's
not very easily traversed. You know, there's a lot of
places you can trip, are a a lot of places you
could fall, and so you know, I always warn people like,
if you do get startled, you know, make sure you
know where they always keep about your wits, know where
you are, stay planted, because you know you could jump
and accidentally fall down a set of stairs or something.
(34:08):
I think that's the most dangerous. I think anything could be. Yeah, no,
you're absolutely right, And that's kind of part of my
spiel when I keep people before we get going. And
you know, it's a big ship, so you can't expect
a one time visitor to know their way around. But
I do try to tell people to try to be
as aware as possible of where they are in relation
(34:28):
to hatches, in relation to ladders. You know, you certainly
don't want somebody to turn and dart the wrong direction
real quick, because if they don't know where they are
or where they're going, there can be very nasty consequences there.
There are a couple of places on the ship that
when I give my tour, I'll stop in a certain
place because it's concerning that you walk through a hatch
(34:51):
and there's an open hatch, right on the floor next
to you. So there are definitely areas like that that
can be dangerous, and we do the best we can
to warm people about that and wanted them to keep
their wits about them when they walk around the ship. Yeah,
I mean, it's amaze. We're really fortunate. We were there,
you know, for four days or so, and we have
our small crew and us so just by ten of
(35:13):
us total. And there were many times where I would
go check on a camera or something, or go try
to look for some information in one of the museum
areas or something, and then just be completely turned around.
And I think I remember correctly. There might be yellow
stripes or some sort of stripe or something on the floor.
I would cling to that thing. I would find that
(35:33):
and know that I would be able to find my
way back. But you know, if we didn't do a
headcount at the end of the night, I very well
could still be there on the Salem months later lost
and that wouldn't be an entirely bad thing. No, I mean,
my daughter would probably miss me, but it's fine. Yeah,
there is a there's a broad yellow line that goes
(35:56):
down the passageways on the main deck. When I give tours.
I tell people just think back to when you were
in prison and follow the yellow line, and as long
as you don't screy, you should be okay. But you're right.
The museum areas in particular, it's very very easy to
get turned around because they're all connected. And that's the
one part of the ship where you could go down
(36:18):
a ladder and if you come up a different ladder,
you could be on the other side of the ship.
Oh yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure I did that a
couple of times, but I made it so ultimately with
the ghosts on board the Salem and just you know,
what you do there and everything. What are your hopes
(36:40):
for the Salem over time? You know, that's a good question,
and it's something we kind of wrestle with a lot
of the time. We have people come aboard who talked
to us about helping people cross over, and you know,
if you're in a position to help these entities, then
certainly that's what you want to do. But we wrestle
with it because it's what we do, so we do
(37:02):
kind of go back and forth. But we have been
able to help some people go over, and there are
certainly enough entities aboard the ship that are looking for
loved ones and things of that nature that ultimately we
would love to help get to where they ultimately want
to be. And that's really all you can you know.
I don't think there's anything else you can really hope for.
(37:22):
I mean, we certainly hope to make the Salem well
known enough that enough people visit her that she can
stay in Quincy. I think that's where she belongs, and
it's a constant battle to keep her there. But yeah,
other than that, I think, you know, helping the amphonies
as best we can, I think that's really all we
can hope for. Yeah, I mean, I think that's something
(37:43):
that I've found is I've investigated for so long, you know,
I definitely kind of thought of that idea of crossing
things over long ago, and I think over time my
theory has evolved to this idea, which I talked about
in my book a lot. But this idea that I
can't cross someone over to place that I don't even
know for sure exists, and so I've been striving more
(38:04):
to figure out why they're still here, and that usually
produces more reaction or activity, Like I do feel like
they're here, not because they don't know where they need
to go, but because there's something that they left behind,
you know, that kind of classic unfinished business. And you know,
I could see that really being the case with the Salem.
(38:25):
You know, there were a lot of lives that ended
very suddenly, either on board or because of the earthquake,
or people who may have left something behind emotionally even
if they didn't die on board. Oh sure. You know.
One of the entities that I speak too, primarily with
dowsing rods, I found is a young man that we
call Nko, a Greek man, and and he seems to
(38:49):
enjoy talking to us. You know, he always comes to
us and we enjoy interacting with him. But I always
feel terrible after we talked to him because he tells
us that he's looking for his family. And you think, man,
if there was anything you could do to help this individual,
(39:10):
whether it was send him to wire his family is
or bring his family forward to him, whatever it would be,
you can't help. But wishing you you could do, Yeah,
that's hard. I mean we have done in the past
where we found kind of wayward spirits like that, where
we have tracked down their family line or their ancestors
(39:31):
and descendants even and kind of produced that, like brought
them actual birth certificates and death certificates and census records
and just showed them like, this is what happened to
your family, this is where they ended up, this is
you know, and tell them the story and that sometimes help.
But until you can identify Nico for sure, that might
be really hard to do, especially with a mass casualty
(39:53):
like that. Sure, yeah, you're absolutely right. I don't think
there are any records in terms of in terms of
the Greeks that suation. In terms of the names, no,
I looked. I looked. You can't find out who was
brought on board and who wasn't things like that. So
it's tough. It is really tough. Well, how now with
the Salem, how what can people do? They can take tours,
(40:14):
they can go on investigations. How do they find out
all that information? Well, the Salem's website is uss dash
Salem dot org and they can get plenty of information there.
My organization, the Great of Boston Paranormal Associates, we're all
over the place www dot v g, b p A
(40:34):
dot com. We're on Facebook as well, and we have
a page now called the USS Salem Paranormal Experience on Facebook,
that's where we advertise our events and things of that nature.
There are plenty of opportunities to get aboard the ship,
but I always try to urge people if they're to
local anyway, it's a great take. You know, on a
(40:56):
Saturday or Sunday afternoon, she's kind of beat up on
the outs side, but once you get aboard, she is
amazingly well preserved. It's a great thing, a great place
to go and get a good understanding of our shared history. Yeah,
I find it to be fascinating. I think that New
England is very lucky to have her. You know. I
brought my daughter when we were filming and she just
(41:17):
loved exploring and learning all about the history there. So
hats off to you and everyone associated with the Salem
for keeping her local and keeping her going in some way,
because you know, these kind of opportunities are becoming harder
and harder to come by for people to experience. I'll
be sure I appreciate that. But as there are a
(41:39):
lot of people involved in not only I mean just
in doing what we do, I'm very very fortunate, you know.
I tell people the ship is my obsession, and I
was fortunate to find a group of people who are
dumb enough to to buy into it. But the truth
is I'm the luckiest guy in the world in terms
of the team that we put to other and and
(42:01):
that's just the paranormal side. The ship itself has a very,
very dedicated group of volunteers and fought too many to
mention absolutely well. I really appreciate you taking the time.
I can't wait to get back, hopefully very soon. I
think this is going to be great for people to
get a greater understanding of all the work that goes
on behind the scenes and also what they can expect
(42:22):
to encounter if they climb on board the U S. S. Salem.
Thank you very much for having to appreciate it, and
we would love to have you back anytime. Yes, thank
you so much. The US S. Salem, like so many
of the haunted places we visit, holds a special place
in the hearts of the many volunteers and benefactors who
(42:43):
worked tirelessly to keep her afloat. When you visit the ship,
just about every volunteer you meet is a VET, and
while the Salem is no longer in service, you can
tell the sense of pride and nostalgia they feel as
they show you around. It's also goes aside, just a
wonderful place to visit and take in some very important history.
So I urge you, next time you're in the New
(43:05):
England area, pay a visit to the United States Naval
ship Building Museum and the U. S. S. Salem. If
you see don tell him I say hi. And if
you get lost in her depths, don't forget. The yellow
line leads back to the top deck until next time.
I Maybe Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road
(43:30):
is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and
Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and hosted
by Amy Bruney. Executive producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams,
and Matt Frederick. The show is produced by rema Ill
Kali and Trevor Young. Taylor Haggerdorn is the show's researcher.
(43:50):
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Death, Sex & Money
Anna Sale explores the big questions and hard choices that are often left out of polite conversation.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.