May 6, 2026 • 63 mins
Priyanka shares her personal journey becoming a mother, from joyful anticipation to a birth experience that unfolded in unexpected and intense ways. She and Hari explore childbirth in modern hospital systems, from induction methods and labor progression to how routine care can escalate into emergency intervention. They discuss postpartum hemorrhage, NICU admission, and the emotional impact of early parent-newborn separation. The also discuss rising C-section rates, racial disparities in maternal care, inconsistent hospital practices, and how financial and legal pressures shape decision-making.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is for information purposes only and should not
be considered professional medical advice.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I did it.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Without epidural and it was hands down the hardest thing
I've ever done in my life.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
It sounded like it didn't reduce the pain, but it
filtered it through a different lens.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I feel very lucky to be alive. If I can
be perfectly honest.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm about to have a contraction right now, sir. Is
that okay? I'm hurry, condibolu.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm doctor preuncle Wally, and this.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Is health stuff. Hi, Hi, Prianca, Hi, what's up?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
What's up? What's more?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Like?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
What's out? Hi? I am? I have some big, big news.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I've been keeping it under wraps, but now I'm ready
to come out.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I am.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I am. Now you can call me Mama Wally. I
am a mother. Believe it or not. Yes, I did it.
But where's my T shirt? I survived.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
For those of you who are wondering, like, how did
Pianca manage to conceive and then give birth to a
child within a week? We were hiding it from you.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yes, it was a very very nice little secret that
now I'm ready to share with the world.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So yeah, all things motherhood.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Let's unpack it, Harry, like it was an experience. I
feel like I'm forever changed, Like you can't go back.
I'm a new person, and so much of my perspective
about a lot has changed.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
And first of all, you know, thinking about my own mother.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Literally the moment I had a baby, like all of
the criticisms I've ever had of my mother completely evaporated.
I was like, oh my god, I totally understand she
did the best that she could, Like she was amazing and.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
She still is.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I had some apologies after the kid was and I
definitely was like I get it now, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
It's crazy how within seconds or minutes or hours you
completely then understand like where they were coming from. Yes,
And how incredibly hard being a parent is. It is
so hard, Like I feel like I am getting schooled
every single day and it has just forced me to
(02:27):
just continuously hold myself in compassion and forgive myself. I
make mistakes all the time, and it's so humbling, like
motherhood is the most humbling experience without a doubt for me.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Well, I want to ask you before we get deeper
into this, how are you feeling because you just went
through major surgery, because that is what delivering a child is.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Well meaning surgery like I didn't I had a I
didn't have a C section.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But isn't basically like spit a child out as they
say technically, I believe that's the medical term that's basically
isn't that? I guess surgery involves cutting of some sort, right.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
That's what I think when I hear surgery, I think
like a surgical procedure with cutting. I had a you know,
vaginal birth, but there were It wasn't like a straightforward
walk in the park for me. It was a very
circuitous journey. I didn't have a C section, but I
labored for twenty hours, and I did it without epidural
(03:34):
and it was It was hands down the hardest thing
I've ever done.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
In my life. And I've done a lot of really hard.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Things that I've experienced a lot of like difficult things
in my life, but without a doubt, giving birth was
the most difficult experience of my life and and also
the most intensely profound, spiritual psychedelic experience of my life.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
See that's the other thing I've had.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yes, I've had very intense psychedelic experiences. You know, I've
done ayahuasca in the jungle, or I've drank peyote in
the desert all night, like I've had very intense experiences.
Those are nothing compared to what I experienced with childbirth.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I've never heard somebody say that, So I'm kind of
digesting it, like that's an incredible what exactly, like, what
were you feeling and visioning experiencing while you were giving birth?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So I took a hypno birthing course, which I really
credit played a big role in my ability to labor
without medication. And in fact, there's there's studies published on
hypno birthing that it actually reduces the need for paid medications,
and that's how I sort of became interested in it.
(04:52):
I took this course and basically you use your breath
to self regulate throughout the labor and you slow things
down a lot. So essentially I was in sort of
like a self hypnosis state for the bulk of the labor.
(05:15):
In fact, the last seven hours of the labor, I
actually my eyes were closed.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
The entire time.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So I was in a very sort of like deeply
internal state. And in that state, I mean I was
self hypnotizing myself, and at moments, I mean it felt
very psychedelic, like at one point in the labor, I
actually saw like a vision or an image of my
(05:42):
grandfather who's passed, and he was right there very much
with me, like in spirit, and he was sort of
standing there, his hands were up and he was just
sort of like blessing me and telling me, like, everything's
going to be okay, Everything's going to be okay.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Were you in pain? Did you feel?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, No, It was incredibly, incredibly intense. It was It
was like, to be clear, childbirth is not a pain
free experience.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I just want to be clear.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
It was literally the most intense physical experience of my life.
And at one point, the as I got closer and
closer to getting ready to finally push, the sensations became
so much more intense. And I remember bringing in all
(06:35):
of the work I've done sematically over the years, the
things I've taught patients, the sort of sematically related therapy
I've done, all of those tools ended up coming in
and I remember at one point the contractions were feeling
(06:55):
so intense that I had to just tell myself at
one point point, like I'm having a human experience like
this or this is just a sensation, and so I
would tell myself, like, I'm just experiencing a new sensation,
because it was a level of intensity that I've never
before experienced in my life.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
That's why I was asking you whether it was is painful.
I was wondering whether the self hypnosis was able to
reduce the pain, but it was. It sounded like it
didn't reduce the pain, but it kind of like filtered
it through a different lens.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, it definitely didn't reduce the pain, but it allowed
me to create space between myself and the sensations that
I was experiencing, and the other thing that really helped me.
At one point when it was getting to the point
where there was a point where I think I must
have been eight or nine centimeters dilated, and I turned
(07:50):
to my husband and the doula and I was just like,
maybe I should get some pain medication. I had different
names for the pain medications, just to add some humor
to it. So like I didn't call the epidural epidurol.
I called it paralyzing my legs. So I would be like,
I would be like, maybe I should paralyze my legs
(08:11):
is that what happens with an epidural, Well you can't
move right, so you you're then immobile, and that was
part of the reason I really wanted to move.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I really wanted to be able to move.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And then, you know, it's funny in the hospital setting
because your pain options are like you can either get
nothing like breathe your way through it, or you basically
get heroin in the form of like hydromorphone or dilauded.
So it's like there's nothing in between, you know, it's
like nothing or heroin. It's like, well, what about like herbs?
(08:44):
Can we try some herbs?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Maybe?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Like anything in the between. So so I would refer
to the dilauded as heroin.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So I remember at eight or nine centimeters it was
getting really really intense for me and on our remember
turning to my husband and saying, should I just paralyze
my legs maybe? And then I said maybe I should
just get some heroin. But then things started to progress,
and essentially I just pushed through it. And I think
(09:16):
another thing that really really helped me was telling myself
while I was going through it that at that moment,
I'm laboring with thousands of other women right now who
are also in labor, and so I wasn't alone. Even
though I was going through it by myself, I knew
(09:36):
energetically I was connected to all the other women around
the world who were also doing the same thing. And
that really gave me the volition and the courage to
keep going.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
That's incredible. Yeah, but things didn't go yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So it's interesting because the labor, you know, labor for
twenty hours pushing the baby out. Everything was fine, that
all went fine, the baby came out fine. Right, Everything
changed as soon as the baby came out. So within
(10:15):
the first hour. A lot of hospitals have this policy.
It's like golden hour where you and the baby are
bonding and your skinned skin. And we were doing Golden
hour and everything was going fine. And then this was
about forty five minutes after I had given birth. I
suddenly feel like there's like a faucet down below. There's
(10:36):
like stuff gushing out of me, and the nurses like
checking me and she's like, oh, this is this is
kind of a lot of blood, and so she's like
cleaning it up and then she's like, oh no, this
is this is a lot of.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Blood was at this point.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, placenta had come out. Yeah, placenta was fine. Everything
was fine.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And then all of a sudden, I started hemorrhaging.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Oh God, And I kept bleeding and bleeding and bleeding,
and then they're giving me medicines. They're giving me sideottech,
They're giving me transaxamic acid, methrgen, and every time the
nurse would press on my belly to check my uterus,
I would feel this like gush of blood coming out.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
God.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And it's funny because I had just met my son, right,
so like I was effectively high because I was so
so excited and happy to meet him. So I'm bleeding
and I'm recognizing that it's happening, but I wasn't like
concerned because I was so high from meeting my son, right.
And at this point, then the bleeding is not stopping.
(11:44):
They've given me like several rounds of medications. So at
this point, now there's a bunch of people entering the room,
and they call this code Crimson, which is the thing
that basically indicates that like somebody's bleeding out and it's
not stopping. So suddenly there's like a bunch of people
in the room and things start moving really fast, like
(12:05):
someone takes it, gives the baby to my husband. And
so then I'm like, wait, what you know, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Guys? You know?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And then there they very quickly were like, we have
to do this procedure. We're gonna have to put a
balloon in your uterus to tamping on the bleeding, and
you're gonna need some pain medications.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Here's a shot of dilauded.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And I was like, well, that's ironic, you know, like
I just labored without medicine. And then they gave me
this dilodded. But I'm not gonna lie that dilaud It
felt amazing. It was like it was great. And then
they started to do this balloon procedure. It's called a
fit up procedure, and they put this balloon in my
uterus in the attempt to stop the bleeding. And so
(12:49):
I remember at this point like I'm getting a little
woozy because they just gave me the dilauded, and so
she's putting this balloon inside of me, and I feel
like pressure, but it doesn't like hurt, but it's a
lot of pressure at this point, and every time she
was like pushing it in. I was like moaning quite
(13:11):
loudly at this point, and it was a distinct change
because during the entire labor, I was actually really quiet
most of the time, just doing my breathing. But at
this point now I'm like being quite loud and vocal.
And I remember there was one corner of my uterus,
like on the right side, that the balloon wasn't sticking,
and so she kept kind of going in and putting it,
(13:33):
trying to get it back in, and it just wouldn't stick.
And at that point she kept pushing harder and harder,
and then I started to feel really uncomfortable, like almost pain,
even though I was having the dilauded. And I remember
at that moment that's when I started to get like
a little concerned because I was like, this doesn't seem right.
(13:58):
And I remember at that moment then I actually said
out loud. I just I basically cried out loud. I
said like, dear God, like please help.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Me right now, Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
And after I said that, the doctor was like, She's like,
the moment you just said that, the I was able
to get it in the right place, and she was like,
say it again, really yeah, So then I did. I
said it again. I was like, Dear God, like, please
(14:34):
help me right now. And then she was like, good,
it's working. And then and then the balloon worked and
the bleeding was stabilized. But I ended up needing to
get a blood transfusion and ivy iron, so my blood
counts dropped quite like they were cut in half, like
(14:54):
more than half.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Like it was. It was a pretty significant.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Bleed, and you know, I I was like my brain
after that, you know, it was like it was a lot.
You know, I didn't anticipate that it was later after,
you know, weeks later, I read that actually postpartum hemorrhage
is the number one cause of female mortality when giving childbirth.
(15:19):
It's responsible for twenty seven percent of maternal debts globally
every year.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Could they have done any knowing what you know now, Like,
could they have done anything differently to have prevented or
limited what happened? Or was this just a thing that
happens sometimes?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
So, I mean, the it can happen, it's very common,
but I think in my case, there's a couple of
nuances that I think are important to share. So I
ended up getting a second opinion after I came home
from the hospital just to debrief on what happened and
(15:58):
why did it happen. And it was after consulting and
getting a second opinion that I then started to have
some serious concerns about the way my original OB had
handled my case. Really yeah, so my original OB had
(16:18):
scheduled me for an induction at thirty nine weeks, which
is kind of a standard practice that occurs across the board.
What happened, though, is the induction didn't progress, and inducing
someone as an art like, there's different ways to do it.
(16:38):
I received a medication that was intended to open up
my cervix and get my uterus to contract, and with
that first induction, I got three doses of that medication
and I didn't progress at all, and I was then
sent home, which in hindsight, I really wonder if that
(17:00):
was the right thing to do, because then I went
home and I was told that I was going to
just go into labor within thirty six hours, and that
never happened. So then I didn't go into labor, and
I turned forty weeks. Wow, And I called my OB
and I was like, I'm forty weeks I didn't go
into labor, like what's the plan, and that OB was
(17:25):
just like, oh, I'm out of town, Like you can
wait till monday or maybe go to the er, And
I was.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Like, what the hell? So I went to the er
because I was like, what the hell's going on?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And they were like, we need to induce you again,
and I was like, okay, just do it. But I
think in hindsight, what was going on is my uterus
was contracting for days because I had started an induction,
was sent home, and then had a second induction. I
think my uterus was just like really tired. It was
(17:59):
contracting for a way too long, which we know is
a risk for a postpartum hemorrhage. So yeah, like, in hindsight,
I would have I think I would have chosen a
different OBI.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Yeah yeah, does this OBI know what happened after?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Oh yeah, yeah, we debriefed about it. But you know,
if you're I think I think it was if I
had to do things over again, I would have probably
gone with a different provider. I just didn't know. I
you know, I tried going into this as a physician
to actually just be a patient and trust my medical providers.
(18:38):
But I think what I've learned about giving birth here
in the United States is just because you're a physician,
it doesn't exempt you from being taken, you know, being
sort of mishandled.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
More to come on health stuff. So what happened after
the hemorrhage, Like, how long did that take for you
to get through recover from?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Well, it took several weeks, but like in the immediate sense,
you know, like the first day or two, I mean
I got the blood transfusion, I was still really I mean,
I was so out of it. I mean on part
of just the regular postpartum stuff, like I would walk
and I would get short of breath, and you know,
I was the brain fog. Holy crap, it was really
(19:27):
really strong. The transfusion helped a lot. Then though, things
got really complicated because then the hospital, so this is
where the hospital was like looking at the baby.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So the baby came out fine.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I thought he looked fine, but then the hospital was
like doing all this monitoring on the baby, like really
intense monitoring, and they were like, oh no, like he's
breathing fast, like, oh no, his oxygen's low. And I
was I was like, really, are you sure the censor's
not off because like he really does look fine, like
he wasn't blue or anything like that. Yeah, and then
(20:01):
they were like, oh no, no, no, we need to do
like an ultrasound of his heart. And I was like, okay,
I mean I had just hemorrhaged, so my brain wasn't
really working. And so they do an ultrasound of this
heart and they tell me that his heart pressures are
a little bit high and he needs to be given oxygen.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
They were diagnosing him with.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
This condition is very very rare condition called idiopathic pulmonary
hypertension of the newborn.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Which is basically like the it's super rare.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
But when a baby's born, their long blood vessels are
supposed to relax and open up, but sometimes they stay
really tight and you need to give oxygen. Now, granted,
babies that have idiopathic pulmonary hypertension of a newborn usually
like they have trouble breathing and they turn blue and
it's like a pretty serious thing. Like I want to
(20:54):
be clear, like my son had none of that, Like
he looked completely fine to me, but the pediatric cardiologists
like walked into the room and was like, he needs
to go to the nick you, And so you know,
I wasn't going to argue with a specialist, so I
was like, okay, like send him to the nick you.
And in hindsight, I really really wish I had maybe
(21:18):
pushed back a little bit. I don't know, I go
over in my mind so much about this, but then
he went to the nick you. And I'll be honest
with you, Harry, like that experience in the NICKU was
worse than labor for me, like worse than the hemorrhage.
It was the hardest, hardest thing ever. Being separated from
the baby in that capacity, like the nick you was horrible.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
It was so stressful.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
For those of you who don't know, a nick you
is basically an ICU for babies. It's called the Neonatal
Intensive Care Unit. So that's that's what Prionca's baby. It
went with a lot of other children as well.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, and to be clear, like nick you saved lives,
like it's usually for babies that are born pre me
you know, real serious medical issues. My son had like
a very very very mild mild case of idiopathic pulmonary hypertension.
I mean it was it was more like they were
(22:16):
admitting him out of an abundance of caution, and frankly,
if they had had like not necessarily an ICU level care,
but something of a like step down unit, they probably
could have put him in that sort of unit, but
they didn't have that right. But like, I really feel
like harm was caused in terms of separating me from
(22:37):
the baby, Like that caused me so much anguish and stress.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I had just hemorrhaged.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I was just completely beside myself, asking myself like, oh
did I cause this did?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Was this my fault?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
And you know, I was like basically crying every single
day that he was in the NICU, like.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
How many days were you separated?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So he was initially admitted for the for the lung issue,
but then after that resolved shortly thereafter, he developed jaundice,
which is actually very common in like South Asian babies.
They usually not treated in an ICU setting, can be
treated like as an outpatient setting. But he developed jaundice,
(23:23):
so then they were like, oh, he needs the special
light therapy for newborn jaundice. So he ended up staying
for a couple more days until that was resolved. So
in totality, he ended up staying in the nick you
for seven days, which I mean I was at the
bedside constantly, like because any opportunity I needed or I
(23:48):
could get to feed him, like breastfeed him.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
I was jumping at the chance.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
But it was so exhausting because I would be there
till midnight and then I would come back at eight
in the morning, and and I had to be I
would choose to be there every three hours to make
sure he could get fed through the breastfeeding otherwise, you know,
they were just like, oh, we'll just give him formula,
and I'm like, no, I need to breastfeed him, like
(24:14):
I need to get my supply up otherwise it's you know,
it's gonna be really stressful.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
So that was super stressful.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Like at night at night when I was sleeping in
my bed alone, I would basically I would just be
I would just like cry because I was like, he
should be here next to me.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, it was horrible. It was horrible.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
In fact, after we came back from the hospital, when
he finally came home, it was like I could just
feel my entire nervous system start to de escalate. And
I believe so seven days though he was there seven days,
then on the last day, basically, I think my body
just hit a limit, like it could. I didn't take
(25:00):
it anymore because that day I felt like absolute garbage.
And I checked my blood pressure and my blood pressure
was like really high. It was super high, and I
don't have high blood pressure issues, and so I had
to go back to the er and I was like
my blood pressures through the roof, like is this preclamsia
And they were like, no, it's not preclamsia, but this
(25:22):
is it's something called postpartum hypertension, which is something women
can get after giving birth. And I believe that I
got that because of the stress of being separated from
him and not sleeping, and yeah, it was It was crazy.
(25:43):
It was crazy because I had spent my entire pregnancy
preparing for this birth and I had no idea that
all of my problems were going to start the minute
he comes out.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, so, well, I'm so glad you're here, and I'm
so glad you're okay. Yeah, you got through it, because
that sounds so brutal, both in terms of your hemorrhaging
and also in terms of the separation, Like I couldn't
even imagine being separated from the get go from as
soon as the kid's born.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, it was worse than labor.
And you know, after I went through this experience, and
I actually did a little bit more research around like
nick you admissions in the United States, and it's really
interesting because nick you admissions are actually on the rise
in the United States. I can't remember the exact numbers,
(26:37):
but I mean there's been like a significant percentage increase
over the last several years. And this could be because
maybe more people are having like twins or triplets, or
women are having birth later.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
We know that infants born to.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Mothers who are age forty or older, they're more likely
than infants born to mothers of other age groups to
be admitted to the NICKU. I also want to mention though,
that nick u's are very, very profitable for hospitals, which
is why there's a lot more cropping up all over
the United States. Like it's a great way for hospitals
(27:17):
to make money. And you know, again my.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Case, why is it so great, Like why in particular
nick u's profitable.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I have no idea. I mean, it must be set
by insurance.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
But you know, it's like follow the money right, like
things if things pay out like that impacts the trends.
I do feel like my son didn't necessarily need to
go to a NICKU level care, like level three NICKU
level of care, like he could have easily been taken
(27:48):
care of in like a step down unit where he
wasn't like in this incubator box, you know, like I
could have been holding him and taking care of him
the whole time. So one thing I would like suggest
people if they're thinking about which hospital to give birth to,
(28:08):
to look up the NICKU admission rates at the various hospitals,
so you can decide for yourself. You know, if you're
if you're delivering at a hospital where it's like over
fifty percent of the babies are getting admitted to the NICKU, like,
you know, think carefully about if that's the type of
hospital that you want to deliver at, you know, especially
(28:30):
if it's not, like you know, some tertiary level hospital
type setting. So I wish I had known that I
would have definitely done things differently if I had known
to look up the NICKU admission rates. Like hospitals used
to have nurseries right like you you would be born
and then you would go to the nursery.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
That's what happened to me actually, like when I was born.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
But what has happened now is that those all those
nurseries have been turned into nick u's. So the mom
and the baby when they're born, they are with each
other and they have a golden hour and all that,
but there's a much higher likelihood that the baby's going
to be sent to the nike. You is it causing
(29:13):
stress and harm potentially, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Because it's done in the name of insurance.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Or in the name of In my case, it was
like in the name of great abundance of caution. It
was like such a borderline case. But they were like
operating on such an overly cautious sort of set of
standards that it ended up, you know, if you were
to look at it under a court of law, like
it wasn't it wasn't malpractice, but it was.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It was. It was so like borderline, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, So now they're like common practices in maternal care
that have been standard protocol in the US since like
the forties and fifties. Right like this there it's not
like you know, the way things are being done in house,
This is the way they've always been done basically.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, I think there have been some improvements in the
sense that like, for example, you don't have to necessarily
push on your back now. I think I think there
have been some improvements. And I think, for example, like
I I came in with a specific birth plan. I
(30:27):
actually wrote out a three page birthplan, and in that
birth plan.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
It's said very specifically like.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Don't ask me if I want an epidural, like if
I need help with pain medications, like I will tell you.
Because what I didn't want is like, oh, I'm like
going through this and every hour someone's like do you.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Want an epidural? Do you want an epidural?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Do you want to And I was like no, like
just just let me like I will come to you
kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
And I think.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
The nurses actually were really respectful of that, which, you know,
I think in the old days it wasn't like that.
I think there was a lot of just there wasn't
that much informed consent, if that makes sense. But obviously
I do think we like have a long ways to
go in terms of how we are doing this, for sure.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I mean, you went through something that a lot of
first time others go through, which is they induce labor.
Forty two percent of first time mothers experience artificial induction
of labor. Induction is performed in a hospital setting and
can lead to more intense and rapid laboring. Common methods
include membrane sweeping, breaking the amniotic sac, which is called
(31:44):
an amniotomy, and administrating corostaglandins rostaglandins or oxytocin. So, is
that that's what they did to you as well?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, so I had my membrane sweep that didn't work.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
What does that mean? To have your memoranes sweep?
Speaker 1 (32:04):
So when when you're very very early in labor, like
you're dilated, maybe like your cervix is open, like by
one centimeter maybe too, what they can do, or someone
can do, is they can basically stick their finger inside
your cervix and press very quickly and harshly along your bag,
(32:27):
your sack that's covering the fetus to try and irritate
the membranes in an effort to that irritation would then
cause labor and cause your uterus to contract. I mean
sweeping the membranes is a very like gentle way of
describing it, but it's not gentle at all.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It hurts no, exactly, veryac not modern medicine at all.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Actually, it's one of the oldest you know, midwives use
memories sweeping, it's it's a it's an old technique for sure.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
And then in terms of breaking the amnioticsact the amniotomy,
so it's really interesting in my situation. So what happened
is I first got something called a fully balloon, which
is basically a balloon that they put in your cervix
to get your cervix to open up, and it's almost
like a mechanical sort of dilation.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
So I got a fully.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Balloon and then oxytocin, which would cause you durin contractions,
and I that balloon got me up to four centimeters.
And then after that they were like, okay, now we
need to break your bag.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
But I had all these that right, yeah, they said
we need to break your bell. So they said we
need to break your bag.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
And at the moment, so I'm four centimeters, I had
all these fears around that, and they were like, no,
it's an evidence based procedure, and I was like, I know.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
But like it just seems so I don't know. I
was freaking out right.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I was like, I don't know, Like, dude, you know
what if something happens when you break my bag? I
was like, can I just get a minute, and you know,
my do. I credit my doula a lot with helping
me navigate this. You know, I just asked for some time.
I just needed some time to like kind of get
my head around, like, Okay, they're gonna come break my bag.
So while I'm like sitting there waiting for my bag
(34:19):
to be broken, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Dilating, dilating, dilating.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I ended up going to like seven centimeters while I'm
sitting there. And then at some point while I'm sitting there,
I suddenly had this realization. I was like, I think
they need to break my bag, Like I'm ready to
do it.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
And I think even again, it was getting very psychedelic
at this point, and even my grandfather's spirit who was there,
was like, in big words, saying break the bag. So
I tell the nurse like, okay, I'm ready to have
my bag broken, and for some reason the other the
it took a while for the doctor to come. I
(34:58):
think she was busy with something else. And so while
I'm sitting there waiting for my bag to be broken.
What ended up happening is my bag actually I feel
this like sensation coming.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Out of my vagina and I tell the nurse.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I was like, there's something coming out of my vagina
and she's like, well, can you let me check? And
I was sitting on sort of like this bedside common
and I was like, I can't move, like I can't
and she was like, no, but you need to get
up so I can see that. I was like, no,
you need to just like bend down and like take
a look. And she's like, no, I can't do that.
And I was like, I'm telling you there's something coming
(35:36):
out of my vagina. She's like, so my do line.
Everyone they're just trying to like help me move and
my bag basically, like Kate, it like bolts out and
it was totally intact and uh. And then I accidentally
like sat on it and then it broke.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Oh oh my god. That is not by the book.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, and so then the doctor comes in she's like
I'm ready to break the bag. And then the nurses
like it just broke, like it's fine, like go away,
Oh my god. So then the bag broke and then
the labor progressed like pretty quickly after that. So yeah,
that that was an interesting experience. So I didn't actually
(36:18):
have the amniotomy, but I guess I broke my own bag.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I did a self amniotomy.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
I mean, the goal with inducing is supposed to be,
or can be, that the risk to the mother is
or fetus is outweighed by the benefits of not delivering right.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Right, Like It's it's like risk mitigation, right Like, so
they're trying to reduce the risk of complications.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Related to.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Labor, whatever it may be, like whether you end up
getting a C section or you know, developing fetal distress
or anything like that. One of the things though about
inducing labor, like if you speed it up, it can
from what I understand, it can be more painful.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Now like I experienced it.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It was my first time going through labor, Like I
had an unmedicated induction. Like the pain that I experienced
was the pain that I experienced. But I do think,
like in hindsight now that I understand, like different inductions
happen in a different way depending on the provider. So
like there's an art to inducing someone in a skilled way.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
What do you mean by that when you say it's
an art.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Well, so for example, like the second time I got induced,
they use a fully balloon, whereas the first time I
got induced they did not use a fully balloon, and
so that that was a clinic clinical decision that was
made at the.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Decision of the provider.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Right. So it's like, I think the other big reason
people induces to prevent still because although the risk is
very very low, I mean in terms of just risk
risk mitigation. So the other see.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
This was the other reason.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Like in hindsight, sometimes people induce because of scheduling issues,
like either the mom need you know, just started maternity
leave and wants to get things going. I don't necessarily
agree with this other reason, but sometimes doctors may offer
(38:35):
an induction on a day that they'll actually be in
town so that they can give birth. I do think
like that might have been my situation because then when
I was actually at forty weeks, my provider was just
out of town. That's so yeah, I know, I'm very
(38:59):
fortunate because the induction didn't progress, and you know, I'm
you know, I'm just fortunate that like, yes, I had
a postpartum hemorrhage, but at least I didn't lose my uterus,
because sometimes if the bleeding doesn't stop, they actually do
a hysterectomy, so they take out someone's uterus. So I
(39:22):
feel very lucky to be alive. If I can be
perfectly honest.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
I'm yeah, I'm also feeling a bit of guilt, which
is a worthless feeling, because why I didn't, Like, women
have so much that they risk when they give birth.
There's so many things that can go wrong. There's so
many things. And meanwhile, when I was in the you know,
in the delivery room, I nearly passed out from the
(39:51):
sounds of labor. I'm like, this is too intense. This
is way too intense, even though I'm not doing anything
besides it. So I'm like, you're I mean, it's ridiculous,
Like how much you know the person that is giving
birth to the child is putting in versus the person who.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Is well, I mean, I agree, I mean, let's you know, yes,
you're right in terms of like giving birth is hard.
But you know, if you are a black woman in
the United States, like the research shows that you are
more likely to die during childbirth compared to any other
(40:32):
type of person in the United States, like I am fortunate,
like I survived, right, but the reality is not the
same for other people, Like it is not an equal
situation depending on basically the color of your skin. Yeah,
and this is like really really fundamentally completely wrong.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Is this? I mean, does that have to do with
healthcare providers not listening to women when they're black? Is
that the idea?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
I think there's systemic issues provider bias. I think there's
there's racism, there's you know, there's overt racism, and.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
It's completely unacceptable. It's completely unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
During my birth I I witnessed some some really terrifying
interactions between.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
One particular provider who.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Who interacted with my doula in a way that basically
terrified me.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Your doula is a woman of color, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
So so for the for the story, my doula is
a black woman. Yeah, and this provider, uh was a
white man. And what happened is, uh, I was about
seven centimeters dilated, and uh, this provider walked in the room.
And of course, like I'd written very clearly in my
(42:04):
birth plan, like do not ask me if I need
an epidural.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
This person just walks into the room. Is like, do
you want an epidural?
Speaker 1 (42:10):
So when he said that, I was thinking to myself like,
this guy didn't read my birth plan at all. So
my doula approached him and started to talk to him
to tell him like this is this is what she wants.
And this provider he did not make eye contact with her,
he did not look at her. He lifted the palm
(42:31):
of his hand and put it about six inches in
front of her face.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Wow, and whoa what is that?
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah? And she and my dula stopped talking and I
I was I was in active labor, and I saw
what happened, and it scared the crap out of me.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
It.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
I mean, you know when you learn in a sympathetic response,
like there's fight or flight. When you're nervous system gets activated,
there's other, there's two other, there's fight, flight, there's freeze,
and fawn.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yeah, those are the four f's.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So when I get in a very activated state, my
default is fawning. I become like incredibly nice, charming. So
the moment I saw that, in my mind, I said
to myself like, oh God, this is not this is
not a safe Like I don't feel safe with this provider.
(43:34):
And I immediately became very pleasant, like very kind towards
him and just was like, thank you so much for
everything you're doing, like I'm doing fine, like thank you
for all of your help whatever. And then I remember
at one point he was talking to me and I
(43:54):
said to him like, oh, I'm about to have a contraction,
like could you please, could you please give me a minute,
I'm about to have a contraction. He says, okay, sure,
that's fine, and.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
So then I go within I s's a that's an
absurd thing to ask, by the way, like, oh you
mind if we take some time, I'm about to have
a contraction right now, sir? Is that okay? Can you? Yes? Fine, fine,
continue with your contractions? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (44:21):
No, I mean I fawn right, like I became I
And you know, it's funny, I became more proper while
I was amidst active labor for the sake of my
own safety. And this is something I've done historically as
a person of color living in the United.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
States, Like I do the same thing, just.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Like be good, right, like don't get in trouble. And so.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
I tell him, excuse me, please, can you give me
a minute to have these contractions?
Speaker 2 (44:50):
And he says sure, absolutely, and.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
So then I have a contraction, and again during my contractions,
I was very quiet and internal, so I closed my
eyes and I'm like just breathing and I'm like holding
my and however many sixty seconds or whatever passed and
then I then I was okay and then I can
and then I opened my eyes and I turned back
to him.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
I was like, Okay, what were you saying?
Speaker 1 (45:10):
And I'll never forget the look on his face, like
his eyes got so big, and he was like, wow,
like you're really handling those contractions pretty well. And I
was like thank you. And he's like, well, just let
us know if you need anything else, and then he
walks out of the room. And then I turned to
(45:31):
my husband and I was like that guy couldn't even
believe that a woman could hold her contractions, Like, you know,
the look on his face, like you know, he was
like he was like shocked that a woman could like
be with her body.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
You know.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Yeah, did you talk to your doula after that happened?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yeah, but because of the hemorrhage and stuff, we didn't
actually we debriefed for days about that. It wasn't until
two or three weeks later I got really, I had
like a lot of anger, like unprocessed anger, Like I
wish I had had the capacity to fire him in
(46:14):
that moment.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
I wish I had spoken up. I wish I had
done things differently.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
And I said to him, my dueler, I was like,
I'm so angry that I didn't speak up more to
protect you. And she was like, dude, you were laboring
like you were in a compromised state, Like, don't hold
yourself to that standard.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
You know you.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Have more capacity now three weeks later. Don't hold yourself
to that standard when you were in a totally compromised state.
And then she said something that really, uh, it just
it gets me. She's like she's like, I'm used to
them talking to me like that, and that really really
just this cannot be the world that we live in.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
This cannot be the world that we live in.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
I mean, Duela's in general, I think, are seen by
some medical providers as in the way or they don't
know enough about medical procedures to be in this position.
That's all, Okay, that's there, but you can't ignore the
race part. You can never ignore the race part. Like
that might be there, but that the idea that he
put his hand out, Like the arrogance of that, the
(47:26):
privilege of that, It's so ugly. It's such an ugly
thing to do. I have never not even to like,
to my child, have I ever done that, even though
adults have the sense of authority, and I have never
like dismissed my kid like that. You're telling me you're
going to dismiss another human being. And also it's like
(47:46):
not even seeing the racial dynamics there and not caring.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Right, the optics do not look good, oh no, Yeah,
and the feeling of the other person, like obviously this
this person has dealt with shit like that for a
long time, and to do.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
It in that moment, in that moment when someone's giving,
you know, delivering a child, it's beyond disgusting. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, But my story is one of so many. I mean,
just recently there has been all over the news of
a woman who also was in labor and also works.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
As a doula.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Yeah, And she was in labor in Florida and she
wanted to attempt something called a vaginal birth after a
sea section, which is a higher risk birth, but she
wanted to attempt it, and she had had a couple
of prior sea sections before, for reasons that have not
(48:49):
been publicly divulge yet, she didn't want a sea section,
so she was then subpoena by a court and they
pulled up a zoom and on that zoom she was
like on a laptop in labor at the hospital, and
on that zoom were a bunch of lawyers and a
judge and they were basically at court ordering her to
(49:15):
get a C section. I mean, this is like beyond
not okay, you know it was. It was like it
basically an attempt to control her right to how she
wants to labor legally.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Yes, I mean it's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
It's terrifying, But I mean the reality is that in
certain states, pregnant people have fewer rights than other people.
You know, as human beings in a medical system, we
have the right to refuse medical treatment and that includes surgery.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
That's your right.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
But if you are pregnant somehow in certain states like Florida,
you have fewer rights, which is terrifying.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
As a woman, you're already dealing with the bias against you,
plus you're in a compromised position being pregnant about to
give birth, like You're in a very vulnerable situation and
that's being used against you, like it's being weaponized.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
This is totally totally unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
We'll be back with more health stuff after this break.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Can we backtrack just for a moment, just to talk
about because you know, we've heard about c sections that
aren't new, but can we kind of define what makes
a C section and when it's used?
Speaker 1 (50:40):
Yeah, And I think before we get into c sections, like,
I want to also say that, like c sections can
also save lives. Let's be clear about that, Like there
are some times where c sections are really really important
and necessary. But what's really interesting is that over the
last fifty years, c section rates have increased by a
(51:00):
factor of seven, meaning today one in three women give
birth by C section, and it's literally it's the most
common surgical procedure performed in the United States.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
But so the rate varies dramatically depending on the hospital, right,
because yes, there's a statistics that say, for the lowest
rate is seven percent, but the highest rate is seventy percent,
which is terrifying, Like, how is it that high?
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Yes, yes, and this is something that again I wish
I had known beforehand, But you can look up hospital
c section rates.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
There's a source.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Leap Frog Group is the source, but you can actually
look up which hospitals have what sea section rates to
see like is am I going to deliver at a
hospital where there's a very high likelihood that I'm going
to get a sea section? Now, across the world, twenty
one percent of births are by sea section, like countries
(52:07):
like Brazil, it's it's more than half of babies are
delivered by sea section.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Why is that? Why? Why are the rates so different?
Why is it so high in Brazil? And is the
Dominican Republic.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Like why like, for example, Brazil highest sea section rate
in the world.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
I think a lot of it has to.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
Do with financial incentives and the way the healthcare system
is structured because and this is the same in the
United States, but sea sections generate more revenue than vaginal births.
Speaker 3 (52:44):
So it's it's I'm just trying to come to terms
like this. I know capitalism like runs all of this,
but it's just nuts to imagine, like how every aspect
of everything, including birth is monetized. Like you can see
like this is this is the path to more money.
Put you know, c section, put the kid in the
(53:06):
NICU regardless, that's more money. That's I don't even know
how to digest that.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Clearly, I mean, we if we effectively live in a
culture or a world where money is the god, like
money is the god that is worshiped, Like it's not
in God we trust, it's in money we trust, right right,
you know? So, yeah, the financial thing is one part.
And I think also not not being sued is another reason,
(53:41):
probably in Brazil that physicians perform se sections, because it's
it's basically like practicing defensive medicine. So yeah, basically they're
they're doing it because they don't want to be sued,
which which is crazy. It's like really crazy, just.
Speaker 3 (54:02):
Like what we just talked about in terms of providers
not listening to black women who are giving birth, if
the mother is a black woman, they are twenty percent
more likely to have a C section than white women,
even with the same risk factors. Research shows this is
driven by provider bias, of course, systemic issues, communication gaps,
and hospital capacity, rather than medical necessity.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Yeah, exactly, And studies show that there are higher rates
of unnecessary, unplanned c sections, and this to me really
points to failures in listening to black patients. Yeah, yeah,
(54:47):
I wonder like, for example, if my doula had been
a white woman, would would she have been treated differently?
Speaker 3 (54:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Probably we need to stop just talking about this, like
there's enough data to show that there are really bad
disparities and we need to actually do something about it.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
And it's crazy because you.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Know, even like Serena Williams came out about her near
she had like a near death experience after birth, and
her her whole takeaway from that was that like she
wasn't listened to. Yeah, she ended up having I believe,
pulmonary umbolism. So she was like complaining, which can happen
(55:33):
after birth? That's like that can be a complication of childbirth.
And she was sort of telling them that, you know, hey,
my legs are numb or like I can't move my
legs or my back and I've passed out, and they
were just like, oh, no, like you're fine, like we
you know, you don't need anything. And she actually was
(55:54):
having a pulmonary embolism.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
You know, It's just like no, and think about that, Serena,
I know Williams, if somebody that famous is having these
issues like that shows you how powerful race is in
this country.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
We need to listen to what people are saying and
we need to believe patients. So Ever since wrote v.
Wade was overturned, and there seems to be more of
(56:31):
a controlling of women's bodies, you know, we're seeing more
and more really strange stories like this propping up in
the news, like the court ordered C section, which is
completely completely unacceptable. It's really kind of creating this sense
(56:54):
of like, do women have autonomy over their own bodies?
Speaker 3 (57:01):
Clearly there's a political context to this right, you know,
unequal rights. Pregnant women in some states have fewer rights
and other mentally competent adults to refuse medical treatment, including surgery.
There's constitutional questions. The rise of fetal personhood policies has
some legal experts worried about an increase in court ordered
(57:22):
medical care. Now that's another you can't ignore this discussion
of when is a person a person because that's going
to affect medical care, that's going to affect how it's
viewed in court as well. And then there are disparities
in places like Florida. Florida has gone further than other
states to guarantee medical freedom to those who decline vaccines
(57:44):
but also has restricted medical freedom of pregnant women. So like,
you're dealing with these issues and they're not happening in
a void. They happen in this context, and they affect
things even as you know, as essential as giving birth.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
You know, I'll tell you one thing, Like, while giving birth,
I feel like I tapped into feminine energy, feminine power
in a way that I had never before experienced. And
what I feel I understand about feminine energy after going
(58:22):
through that experience is that feminine energy is deep, powerful, raw,
It's savage, and it's incredibly beautiful. And I can see
why someone would want to control it, cap it, snippet,
(58:42):
put it in a box and not let it get
out because it could be perceived as really wild and chaotic.
But I think on a higher level, this is about
us as a species, us as a society, really getting
comfort with raw feminine power.
Speaker 3 (59:04):
Yeah, where you live matters when it comes to giving birth.
More than thirty five percent of urban hospitals and many
rural hospitals lack obstetric services, forcing patients to travel long
distances for care. So where you live is essential here.
It's not you know, in New Mexico, the median is
(59:24):
sixty three minutes in North Dakota. It's sixty three minutes
to get to a hospital where you can give birth.
Speaker 1 (59:31):
Yeah, and so the impact of that, you know, if
it takes you an hour to get to the clinic, right,
what is the implication. It's it's going to mean you're
going to have fewer prenatal visits, higher risk of preterm births.
Speaker 2 (59:47):
You know, riskier births.
Speaker 1 (59:48):
Right, Like there's a higher likelihood that you might give
birth in a car if you're spending an hour commuting
to the hospital. So it's riskier, right, And more than
thirty five percent of the country are considered a maternity
care desert. So that's not like insignificant. We as a
country can do more to solve that problem. Like, to me,
(01:00:11):
that seems like a very solvable problem.
Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Charec. We've talked about a lot of things that are
hard in this episode, but I want to bring it
back to you. Can you share some moments of love
and joy that you have had?
Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Yeah, I mean there's something about motherhood. It's like, Wow,
you can feel so much deep, profound love for this
new human being who you'll do anything for. I mean,
it's it's that that to me is the medicine, you know,
And it's at the moment I came home with my son,
(01:00:50):
my cortisol levels went down, my blood pressure went down,
my heart rate went down, like my love and joy
went up such that even like these the sleepless nights
are heaven compared to what we went through in the hospital,
you know.
Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
And so.
Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
It this experience has like forever changed me and I've
learned so much and I hope to use this experience
to like just basically help other people not go through
the things that I had to go through. Like so
for example, like things I wish i'd known, like look
up your hospital c section rates, look up your hospital
(01:01:33):
nick you admission rates, look up your hospital episiotomy rates.
That's another thing, you know, research your hospitals, Uh, when
choosing where to go and interview your obs, Like if
you're not comfortable, find a different ob, ask lots of questions,
do research, and I would I would plug hypnoe birthing.
(01:01:57):
I really think that helped me a lot too.
Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
Prianka, I'm so glad you're back. I'm so glad that
you are healthy, that the baby is healthy, that we're
doing this welcome back, and I can't think of a
better way to wrap up this show.
Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Thank you so much, and if you're enjoying the show,
please like, subscribe and leave us a five star review
wherever you listen. It helps more people discover the podcast
and it makes a huge difference for us.
Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
We appreciate your sport. Health Stuff is a production of
iHeart Podcasts. The show is hosted by Me, doctor Preancle Wally,
and Harrikonnebolu. Producers are Rebecca Eisenberg, Jenna Cagel, Christina Loranger,
Maya Howard, and Katrina Norvel. Our researcher is Maria Tremarki
(01:02:47):
and our intern is Katiya sobel lea Ayala. To send
us a question, you can email us a voice memo
at health Stuff Podcasts at gmail dot com. Thanks so
much for listening.
This podcast is for information purposes only and should not
be considered professional medical advice.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I did it.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Without epidural and it was hands down the hardest thing
I've ever done in my life.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
It sounded like it didn't reduce the pain, but it
filtered it through a different lens.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I feel very lucky to be alive. If I can
be perfectly honest.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm about to have a contraction right now, sir. Is
that okay? I'm hurry, condibolu.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm doctor preuncle Wally, and this.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Is health stuff. Hi, Hi, Prianca, Hi, what's up?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
What's up? What's more?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Like?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
What's out? Hi? I am? I have some big, big news.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I've been keeping it under wraps, but now I'm ready
to come out.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I am.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I am. Now you can call me Mama Wally. I
am a mother. Believe it or not. Yes, I did it.
But where's my T shirt? I survived.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
For those of you who are wondering, like, how did
Pianca manage to conceive and then give birth to a
child within a week? We were hiding it from you.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yes, it was a very very nice little secret that
now I'm ready to share with the world.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So yeah, all things motherhood.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Let's unpack it, Harry, like it was an experience. I
feel like I'm forever changed, Like you can't go back.
I'm a new person, and so much of my perspective
about a lot has changed.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
And first of all, you know, thinking about my own mother.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Literally the moment I had a baby, like all of
the criticisms I've ever had of my mother completely evaporated.
I was like, oh my god, I totally understand she
did the best that she could, Like she was amazing and.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
She still is.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I had some apologies after the kid was and I
definitely was like I get it now, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
It's crazy how within seconds or minutes or hours you
completely then understand like where they were coming from. Yes,
And how incredibly hard being a parent is. It is
so hard, Like I feel like I am getting schooled
every single day and it has just forced me to
(02:27):
just continuously hold myself in compassion and forgive myself. I
make mistakes all the time, and it's so humbling, like
motherhood is the most humbling experience without a doubt for me.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Well, I want to ask you before we get deeper
into this, how are you feeling because you just went
through major surgery, because that is what delivering a child is.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Well meaning surgery like I didn't I had a I
didn't have a C section.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But isn't basically like spit a child out as they
say technically, I believe that's the medical term that's basically
isn't that? I guess surgery involves cutting of some sort, right.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
That's what I think when I hear surgery, I think
like a surgical procedure with cutting. I had a you know,
vaginal birth, but there were It wasn't like a straightforward
walk in the park for me. It was a very
circuitous journey. I didn't have a C section, but I
labored for twenty hours, and I did it without epidural
(03:34):
and it was It was hands down the hardest thing
I've ever done.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
In my life. And I've done a lot of really hard.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Things that I've experienced a lot of like difficult things
in my life, but without a doubt, giving birth was
the most difficult experience of my life and and also
the most intensely profound, spiritual psychedelic experience of my life.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
See that's the other thing I've had.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yes, I've had very intense psychedelic experiences. You know, I've
done ayahuasca in the jungle, or I've drank peyote in
the desert all night, like I've had very intense experiences.
Those are nothing compared to what I experienced with childbirth.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I've never heard somebody say that, So I'm kind of
digesting it, like that's an incredible what exactly, like, what
were you feeling and visioning experiencing while you were giving birth?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So I took a hypno birthing course, which I really
credit played a big role in my ability to labor
without medication. And in fact, there's there's studies published on
hypno birthing that it actually reduces the need for paid medications,
and that's how I sort of became interested in it.
(04:52):
I took this course and basically you use your breath
to self regulate throughout the labor and you slow things
down a lot. So essentially I was in sort of
like a self hypnosis state for the bulk of the labor.
(05:15):
In fact, the last seven hours of the labor, I
actually my eyes were closed.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
The entire time.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So I was in a very sort of like deeply
internal state. And in that state, I mean I was
self hypnotizing myself, and at moments, I mean it felt
very psychedelic, like at one point in the labor, I
actually saw like a vision or an image of my
(05:42):
grandfather who's passed, and he was right there very much
with me, like in spirit, and he was sort of
standing there, his hands were up and he was just
sort of like blessing me and telling me, like, everything's
going to be okay, Everything's going to be okay.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Were you in pain? Did you feel?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, No, It was incredibly, incredibly intense. It was It
was like, to be clear, childbirth is not a pain
free experience.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I just want to be clear.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
It was literally the most intense physical experience of my life.
And at one point, the as I got closer and
closer to getting ready to finally push, the sensations became
so much more intense. And I remember bringing in all
(06:35):
of the work I've done sematically over the years, the
things I've taught patients, the sort of sematically related therapy
I've done, all of those tools ended up coming in
and I remember at one point the contractions were feeling
(06:55):
so intense that I had to just tell myself at
one point point, like I'm having a human experience like
this or this is just a sensation, and so I
would tell myself, like, I'm just experiencing a new sensation,
because it was a level of intensity that I've never
before experienced in my life.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
That's why I was asking you whether it was is painful.
I was wondering whether the self hypnosis was able to
reduce the pain, but it was. It sounded like it
didn't reduce the pain, but it kind of like filtered
it through a different lens.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, it definitely didn't reduce the pain, but it allowed
me to create space between myself and the sensations that
I was experiencing, and the other thing that really helped me.
At one point when it was getting to the point
where there was a point where I think I must
have been eight or nine centimeters dilated, and I turned
(07:50):
to my husband and the doula and I was just like,
maybe I should get some pain medication. I had different
names for the pain medications, just to add some humor
to it. So like I didn't call the epidural epidurol.
I called it paralyzing my legs. So I would be like,
I would be like, maybe I should paralyze my legs
(08:11):
is that what happens with an epidural, Well you can't
move right, so you you're then immobile, and that was
part of the reason I really wanted to move.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I really wanted to be able to move.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And then, you know, it's funny in the hospital setting
because your pain options are like you can either get
nothing like breathe your way through it, or you basically
get heroin in the form of like hydromorphone or dilauded.
So it's like there's nothing in between, you know, it's
like nothing or heroin. It's like, well, what about like herbs?
(08:44):
Can we try some herbs?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Maybe?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Like anything in the between. So so I would refer
to the dilauded as heroin.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So I remember at eight or nine centimeters it was
getting really really intense for me and on our remember
turning to my husband and saying, should I just paralyze
my legs maybe? And then I said maybe I should
just get some heroin. But then things started to progress,
and essentially I just pushed through it. And I think
(09:16):
another thing that really really helped me was telling myself
while I was going through it that at that moment,
I'm laboring with thousands of other women right now who
are also in labor, and so I wasn't alone. Even
though I was going through it by myself, I knew
(09:36):
energetically I was connected to all the other women around
the world who were also doing the same thing. And
that really gave me the volition and the courage to
keep going.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
That's incredible. Yeah, but things didn't go yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So it's interesting because the labor, you know, labor for
twenty hours pushing the baby out. Everything was fine, that
all went fine, the baby came out fine. Right, Everything
changed as soon as the baby came out. So within
(10:15):
the first hour. A lot of hospitals have this policy.
It's like golden hour where you and the baby are
bonding and your skinned skin. And we were doing Golden
hour and everything was going fine. And then this was
about forty five minutes after I had given birth. I
suddenly feel like there's like a faucet down below. There's
(10:36):
like stuff gushing out of me, and the nurses like
checking me and she's like, oh, this is this is
kind of a lot of blood, and so she's like
cleaning it up and then she's like, oh no, this
is this is a lot of.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Blood was at this point.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, placenta had come out. Yeah, placenta was fine. Everything
was fine.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And then all of a sudden, I started hemorrhaging.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Oh God, And I kept bleeding and bleeding and bleeding,
and then they're giving me medicines. They're giving me sideottech,
They're giving me transaxamic acid, methrgen, and every time the
nurse would press on my belly to check my uterus,
I would feel this like gush of blood coming out.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
God.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And it's funny because I had just met my son, right,
so like I was effectively high because I was so
so excited and happy to meet him. So I'm bleeding
and I'm recognizing that it's happening, but I wasn't like
concerned because I was so high from meeting my son, right.
And at this point, then the bleeding is not stopping.
(11:44):
They've given me like several rounds of medications. So at
this point, now there's a bunch of people entering the room,
and they call this code Crimson, which is the thing
that basically indicates that like somebody's bleeding out and it's
not stopping. So suddenly there's like a bunch of people
in the room and things start moving really fast, like
(12:05):
someone takes it, gives the baby to my husband. And
so then I'm like, wait, what you know, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Guys? You know?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And then there they very quickly were like, we have
to do this procedure. We're gonna have to put a
balloon in your uterus to tamping on the bleeding, and
you're gonna need some pain medications.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Here's a shot of dilauded.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And I was like, well, that's ironic, you know, like
I just labored without medicine. And then they gave me
this dilodded. But I'm not gonna lie that dilaud It
felt amazing. It was like it was great. And then
they started to do this balloon procedure. It's called a
fit up procedure, and they put this balloon in my
uterus in the attempt to stop the bleeding. And so
(12:49):
I remember at this point like I'm getting a little
woozy because they just gave me the dilauded, and so
she's putting this balloon inside of me, and I feel
like pressure, but it doesn't like hurt, but it's a
lot of pressure at this point, and every time she
was like pushing it in. I was like moaning quite
(13:11):
loudly at this point, and it was a distinct change
because during the entire labor, I was actually really quiet
most of the time, just doing my breathing. But at
this point now I'm like being quite loud and vocal.
And I remember there was one corner of my uterus,
like on the right side, that the balloon wasn't sticking,
and so she kept kind of going in and putting it,
(13:33):
trying to get it back in, and it just wouldn't stick.
And at that point she kept pushing harder and harder,
and then I started to feel really uncomfortable, like almost pain,
even though I was having the dilauded. And I remember
at that moment that's when I started to get like
a little concerned because I was like, this doesn't seem right.
(13:58):
And I remember at that moment then I actually said
out loud. I just I basically cried out loud. I
said like, dear God, like please help.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Me right now, Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
And after I said that, the doctor was like, She's like,
the moment you just said that, the I was able
to get it in the right place, and she was like,
say it again, really yeah, So then I did. I
said it again. I was like, Dear God, like, please
(14:34):
help me right now. And then she was like, good,
it's working. And then and then the balloon worked and
the bleeding was stabilized. But I ended up needing to
get a blood transfusion and ivy iron, so my blood
counts dropped quite like they were cut in half, like
(14:54):
more than half.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Like it was. It was a pretty significant.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Bleed, and you know, I I was like my brain
after that, you know, it was like it was a lot.
You know, I didn't anticipate that it was later after,
you know, weeks later, I read that actually postpartum hemorrhage
is the number one cause of female mortality when giving childbirth.
(15:19):
It's responsible for twenty seven percent of maternal debts globally
every year.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Could they have done any knowing what you know now, Like,
could they have done anything differently to have prevented or
limited what happened? Or was this just a thing that
happens sometimes?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
So, I mean, the it can happen, it's very common,
but I think in my case, there's a couple of
nuances that I think are important to share. So I
ended up getting a second opinion after I came home
from the hospital just to debrief on what happened and
(15:58):
why did it happen. And it was after consulting and
getting a second opinion that I then started to have
some serious concerns about the way my original OB had
handled my case. Really yeah, so my original OB had
(16:18):
scheduled me for an induction at thirty nine weeks, which
is kind of a standard practice that occurs across the board.
What happened, though, is the induction didn't progress, and inducing
someone as an art like, there's different ways to do it.
(16:38):
I received a medication that was intended to open up
my cervix and get my uterus to contract, and with
that first induction, I got three doses of that medication
and I didn't progress at all, and I was then
sent home, which in hindsight, I really wonder if that
(17:00):
was the right thing to do, because then I went
home and I was told that I was going to
just go into labor within thirty six hours, and that
never happened. So then I didn't go into labor, and
I turned forty weeks. Wow, And I called my OB
and I was like, I'm forty weeks I didn't go
into labor, like what's the plan, and that OB was
(17:25):
just like, oh, I'm out of town, Like you can
wait till monday or maybe go to the er, And
I was.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Like, what the hell? So I went to the er
because I was like, what the hell's going on?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And they were like, we need to induce you again,
and I was like, okay, just do it. But I
think in hindsight, what was going on is my uterus
was contracting for days because I had started an induction,
was sent home, and then had a second induction. I
think my uterus was just like really tired. It was
(17:59):
contracting for a way too long, which we know is
a risk for a postpartum hemorrhage. So yeah, like, in hindsight,
I would have I think I would have chosen a
different OBI.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Yeah yeah, does this OBI know what happened after?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Oh yeah, yeah, we debriefed about it. But you know,
if you're I think I think it was if I
had to do things over again, I would have probably
gone with a different provider. I just didn't know. I
you know, I tried going into this as a physician
to actually just be a patient and trust my medical providers.
(18:38):
But I think what I've learned about giving birth here
in the United States is just because you're a physician,
it doesn't exempt you from being taken, you know, being
sort of mishandled.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
More to come on health stuff. So what happened after
the hemorrhage, Like, how long did that take for you
to get through recover from?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Well, it took several weeks, but like in the immediate sense,
you know, like the first day or two, I mean
I got the blood transfusion, I was still really I mean,
I was so out of it. I mean on part
of just the regular postpartum stuff, like I would walk
and I would get short of breath, and you know,
I was the brain fog. Holy crap, it was really
(19:27):
really strong. The transfusion helped a lot. Then though, things
got really complicated because then the hospital, so this is
where the hospital was like looking at the baby.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So the baby came out fine.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I thought he looked fine, but then the hospital was
like doing all this monitoring on the baby, like really
intense monitoring, and they were like, oh no, like he's
breathing fast, like, oh no, his oxygen's low. And I
was I was like, really, are you sure the censor's
not off because like he really does look fine, like
he wasn't blue or anything like that. Yeah, and then
(20:01):
they were like, oh no, no, no, we need to do
like an ultrasound of his heart. And I was like, okay,
I mean I had just hemorrhaged, so my brain wasn't
really working. And so they do an ultrasound of this
heart and they tell me that his heart pressures are
a little bit high and he needs to be given oxygen.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
They were diagnosing him with.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
This condition is very very rare condition called idiopathic pulmonary
hypertension of the newborn.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Which is basically like the it's super rare.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
But when a baby's born, their long blood vessels are
supposed to relax and open up, but sometimes they stay
really tight and you need to give oxygen. Now, granted,
babies that have idiopathic pulmonary hypertension of a newborn usually
like they have trouble breathing and they turn blue and
it's like a pretty serious thing. Like I want to
(20:54):
be clear, like my son had none of that, Like
he looked completely fine to me, but the pediatric cardiologists
like walked into the room and was like, he needs
to go to the nick you, And so you know,
I wasn't going to argue with a specialist, so I
was like, okay, like send him to the nick you.
And in hindsight, I really really wish I had maybe
(21:18):
pushed back a little bit. I don't know, I go
over in my mind so much about this, but then
he went to the nick you. And I'll be honest
with you, Harry, like that experience in the NICKU was
worse than labor for me, like worse than the hemorrhage.
It was the hardest, hardest thing ever. Being separated from
the baby in that capacity, like the nick you was horrible.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
It was so stressful.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
For those of you who don't know, a nick you
is basically an ICU for babies. It's called the Neonatal
Intensive Care Unit. So that's that's what Prionca's baby. It
went with a lot of other children as well.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, and to be clear, like nick you saved lives,
like it's usually for babies that are born pre me
you know, real serious medical issues. My son had like
a very very very mild mild case of idiopathic pulmonary hypertension.
I mean it was it was more like they were
(22:16):
admitting him out of an abundance of caution, and frankly,
if they had had like not necessarily an ICU level care,
but something of a like step down unit, they probably
could have put him in that sort of unit, but
they didn't have that right. But like, I really feel
like harm was caused in terms of separating me from
(22:37):
the baby, Like that caused me so much anguish and stress.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I had just hemorrhaged.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I was just completely beside myself, asking myself like, oh
did I cause this did?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Was this my fault?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
And you know, I was like basically crying every single
day that he was in the NICU, like.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
How many days were you separated?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So he was initially admitted for the for the lung issue,
but then after that resolved shortly thereafter, he developed jaundice,
which is actually very common in like South Asian babies.
They usually not treated in an ICU setting, can be
treated like as an outpatient setting. But he developed jaundice,
(23:23):
so then they were like, oh, he needs the special
light therapy for newborn jaundice. So he ended up staying
for a couple more days until that was resolved. So
in totality, he ended up staying in the nick you
for seven days, which I mean I was at the
bedside constantly, like because any opportunity I needed or I
(23:48):
could get to feed him, like breastfeed him.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
I was jumping at the chance.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
But it was so exhausting because I would be there
till midnight and then I would come back at eight
in the morning, and and I had to be I
would choose to be there every three hours to make
sure he could get fed through the breastfeeding otherwise, you know,
they were just like, oh, we'll just give him formula,
and I'm like, no, I need to breastfeed him, like
(24:14):
I need to get my supply up otherwise it's you know,
it's gonna be really stressful.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
So that was super stressful.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Like at night at night when I was sleeping in
my bed alone, I would basically I would just be
I would just like cry because I was like, he
should be here next to me.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, it was horrible. It was horrible.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
In fact, after we came back from the hospital, when
he finally came home, it was like I could just
feel my entire nervous system start to de escalate. And
I believe so seven days though he was there seven days,
then on the last day, basically, I think my body
just hit a limit, like it could. I didn't take
(25:00):
it anymore because that day I felt like absolute garbage.
And I checked my blood pressure and my blood pressure
was like really high. It was super high, and I
don't have high blood pressure issues, and so I had
to go back to the er and I was like
my blood pressures through the roof, like is this preclamsia
And they were like, no, it's not preclamsia, but this
(25:22):
is it's something called postpartum hypertension, which is something women
can get after giving birth. And I believe that I
got that because of the stress of being separated from
him and not sleeping, and yeah, it was It was crazy.
(25:43):
It was crazy because I had spent my entire pregnancy
preparing for this birth and I had no idea that
all of my problems were going to start the minute
he comes out.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, so, well, I'm so glad you're here, and I'm
so glad you're okay. Yeah, you got through it, because
that sounds so brutal, both in terms of your hemorrhaging
and also in terms of the separation, Like I couldn't
even imagine being separated from the get go from as
soon as the kid's born.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, it was worse than labor.
And you know, after I went through this experience, and
I actually did a little bit more research around like
nick you admissions in the United States, and it's really
interesting because nick you admissions are actually on the rise
in the United States. I can't remember the exact numbers,
(26:37):
but I mean there's been like a significant percentage increase
over the last several years. And this could be because
maybe more people are having like twins or triplets, or
women are having birth later.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
We know that infants born to.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Mothers who are age forty or older, they're more likely
than infants born to mothers of other age groups to
be admitted to the NICKU. I also want to mention though,
that nick u's are very, very profitable for hospitals, which
is why there's a lot more cropping up all over
the United States. Like it's a great way for hospitals
(27:17):
to make money. And you know, again my.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Case, why is it so great, Like why in particular
nick u's profitable.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I have no idea. I mean, it must be set
by insurance.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
But you know, it's like follow the money right, like
things if things pay out like that impacts the trends.
I do feel like my son didn't necessarily need to
go to a NICKU level care, like level three NICKU
level of care, like he could have easily been taken
(27:48):
care of in like a step down unit where he
wasn't like in this incubator box, you know, like I
could have been holding him and taking care of him
the whole time. So one thing I would like suggest
people if they're thinking about which hospital to give birth to,
(28:08):
to look up the NICKU admission rates at the various hospitals,
so you can decide for yourself. You know, if you're
if you're delivering at a hospital where it's like over
fifty percent of the babies are getting admitted to the NICKU, like,
you know, think carefully about if that's the type of
hospital that you want to deliver at, you know, especially
(28:30):
if it's not, like you know, some tertiary level hospital
type setting. So I wish I had known that I
would have definitely done things differently if I had known
to look up the NICKU admission rates. Like hospitals used
to have nurseries right like you you would be born
and then you would go to the nursery.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
That's what happened to me actually, like when I was born.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
But what has happened now is that those all those
nurseries have been turned into nick u's. So the mom
and the baby when they're born, they are with each
other and they have a golden hour and all that,
but there's a much higher likelihood that the baby's going
to be sent to the nike. You is it causing
(29:13):
stress and harm potentially, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Because it's done in the name of insurance.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Or in the name of In my case, it was
like in the name of great abundance of caution. It
was like such a borderline case. But they were like
operating on such an overly cautious sort of set of
standards that it ended up, you know, if you were
to look at it under a court of law, like
it wasn't it wasn't malpractice, but it was.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It was. It was so like borderline, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, So now they're like common practices in maternal care
that have been standard protocol in the US since like
the forties and fifties. Right like this there it's not
like you know, the way things are being done in house,
This is the way they've always been done basically.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, I think there have been some improvements in the
sense that like, for example, you don't have to necessarily
push on your back now. I think I think there
have been some improvements. And I think, for example, like
I I came in with a specific birth plan. I
(30:27):
actually wrote out a three page birthplan, and in that
birth plan.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
It's said very specifically like.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Don't ask me if I want an epidural, like if
I need help with pain medications, like I will tell you.
Because what I didn't want is like, oh, I'm like
going through this and every hour someone's like do you.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Want an epidural? Do you want an epidural?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Do you want to And I was like no, like
just just let me like I will come to you
kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
And I think.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
The nurses actually were really respectful of that, which, you know,
I think in the old days it wasn't like that.
I think there was a lot of just there wasn't
that much informed consent, if that makes sense. But obviously
I do think we like have a long ways to
go in terms of how we are doing this, for sure.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I mean, you went through something that a lot of
first time others go through, which is they induce labor.
Forty two percent of first time mothers experience artificial induction
of labor. Induction is performed in a hospital setting and
can lead to more intense and rapid laboring. Common methods
include membrane sweeping, breaking the amniotic sac, which is called
(31:44):
an amniotomy, and administrating corostaglandins rostaglandins or oxytocin. So, is
that that's what they did to you as well?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, so I had my membrane sweep that didn't work.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
What does that mean? To have your memoranes sweep?
Speaker 1 (32:04):
So when when you're very very early in labor, like
you're dilated, maybe like your cervix is open, like by
one centimeter maybe too, what they can do, or someone
can do, is they can basically stick their finger inside
your cervix and press very quickly and harshly along your bag,
(32:27):
your sack that's covering the fetus to try and irritate
the membranes in an effort to that irritation would then
cause labor and cause your uterus to contract. I mean
sweeping the membranes is a very like gentle way of
describing it, but it's not gentle at all.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It hurts no, exactly, veryac not modern medicine at all.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Actually, it's one of the oldest you know, midwives use
memories sweeping, it's it's a it's an old technique for sure.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
And then in terms of breaking the amnioticsact the amniotomy,
so it's really interesting in my situation. So what happened
is I first got something called a fully balloon, which
is basically a balloon that they put in your cervix
to get your cervix to open up, and it's almost
like a mechanical sort of dilation.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
So I got a fully.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Balloon and then oxytocin, which would cause you durin contractions,
and I that balloon got me up to four centimeters.
And then after that they were like, okay, now we
need to break your bag.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
But I had all these that right, yeah, they said
we need to break your bell. So they said we
need to break your bag.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
And at the moment, so I'm four centimeters, I had
all these fears around that, and they were like, no,
it's an evidence based procedure, and I was like, I know.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
But like it just seems so I don't know. I
was freaking out right.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I was like, I don't know, Like, dude, you know
what if something happens when you break my bag? I
was like, can I just get a minute, and you know,
my do. I credit my doula a lot with helping
me navigate this. You know, I just asked for some time.
I just needed some time to like kind of get
my head around, like, Okay, they're gonna come break my bag.
So while I'm like sitting there waiting for my bag
(34:19):
to be broken, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Dilating, dilating, dilating.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I ended up going to like seven centimeters while I'm
sitting there. And then at some point while I'm sitting there,
I suddenly had this realization. I was like, I think
they need to break my bag, Like I'm ready to
do it.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
And I think even again, it was getting very psychedelic
at this point, and even my grandfather's spirit who was there,
was like, in big words, saying break the bag. So
I tell the nurse like, okay, I'm ready to have
my bag broken, and for some reason the other the
it took a while for the doctor to come. I
(34:58):
think she was busy with something else. And so while
I'm sitting there waiting for my bag to be broken.
What ended up happening is my bag actually I feel
this like sensation coming.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Out of my vagina and I tell the nurse.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I was like, there's something coming out of my vagina
and she's like, well, can you let me check? And
I was sitting on sort of like this bedside common
and I was like, I can't move, like I can't
and she was like, no, but you need to get
up so I can see that. I was like, no,
you need to just like bend down and like take
a look. And she's like, no, I can't do that.
And I was like, I'm telling you there's something coming
(35:36):
out of my vagina. She's like, so my do line.
Everyone they're just trying to like help me move and
my bag basically, like Kate, it like bolts out and
it was totally intact and uh. And then I accidentally
like sat on it and then it broke.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Oh oh my god. That is not by the book.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, and so then the doctor comes in she's like
I'm ready to break the bag. And then the nurses
like it just broke, like it's fine, like go away,
Oh my god. So then the bag broke and then
the labor progressed like pretty quickly after that. So yeah,
that that was an interesting experience. So I didn't actually
(36:18):
have the amniotomy, but I guess I broke my own bag.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I did a self amniotomy.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
I mean, the goal with inducing is supposed to be,
or can be, that the risk to the mother is
or fetus is outweighed by the benefits of not delivering right.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Right, Like It's it's like risk mitigation, right Like, so
they're trying to reduce the risk of complications.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Related to.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Labor, whatever it may be, like whether you end up
getting a C section or you know, developing fetal distress
or anything like that. One of the things though about
inducing labor, like if you speed it up, it can
from what I understand, it can be more painful.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Now like I experienced it.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It was my first time going through labor, Like I
had an unmedicated induction. Like the pain that I experienced
was the pain that I experienced. But I do think,
like in hindsight now that I understand, like different inductions
happen in a different way depending on the provider. So
like there's an art to inducing someone in a skilled way.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
What do you mean by that when you say it's
an art.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Well, so for example, like the second time I got induced,
they use a fully balloon, whereas the first time I
got induced they did not use a fully balloon, and
so that that was a clinic clinical decision that was
made at the.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Decision of the provider.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Right. So it's like, I think the other big reason
people induces to prevent still because although the risk is
very very low, I mean in terms of just risk
risk mitigation. So the other see.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
This was the other reason.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Like in hindsight, sometimes people induce because of scheduling issues,
like either the mom need you know, just started maternity
leave and wants to get things going. I don't necessarily
agree with this other reason, but sometimes doctors may offer
(38:35):
an induction on a day that they'll actually be in
town so that they can give birth. I do think
like that might have been my situation because then when
I was actually at forty weeks, my provider was just
out of town. That's so yeah, I know, I'm very
(38:59):
fortunate because the induction didn't progress, and you know, I'm
you know, I'm just fortunate that like, yes, I had
a postpartum hemorrhage, but at least I didn't lose my uterus,
because sometimes if the bleeding doesn't stop, they actually do
a hysterectomy, so they take out someone's uterus. So I
(39:22):
feel very lucky to be alive. If I can be
perfectly honest.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
I'm yeah, I'm also feeling a bit of guilt, which
is a worthless feeling, because why I didn't, Like, women
have so much that they risk when they give birth.
There's so many things that can go wrong. There's so
many things. And meanwhile, when I was in the you know,
in the delivery room, I nearly passed out from the
(39:51):
sounds of labor. I'm like, this is too intense. This
is way too intense, even though I'm not doing anything
besides it. So I'm like, you're I mean, it's ridiculous,
Like how much you know the person that is giving
birth to the child is putting in versus the person who.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Is well, I mean, I agree, I mean, let's you know, yes,
you're right in terms of like giving birth is hard.
But you know, if you are a black woman in
the United States, like the research shows that you are
more likely to die during childbirth compared to any other
(40:32):
type of person in the United States, like I am fortunate,
like I survived, right, but the reality is not the
same for other people, Like it is not an equal
situation depending on basically the color of your skin. Yeah,
and this is like really really fundamentally completely wrong.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Is this? I mean, does that have to do with
healthcare providers not listening to women when they're black? Is
that the idea?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
I think there's systemic issues provider bias. I think there's
there's racism, there's you know, there's overt racism, and.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
It's completely unacceptable. It's completely unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
During my birth I I witnessed some some really terrifying
interactions between.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
One particular provider who.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Who interacted with my doula in a way that basically
terrified me.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Your doula is a woman of color, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
So so for the for the story, my doula is
a black woman. Yeah, and this provider, uh was a
white man. And what happened is, uh, I was about
seven centimeters dilated, and uh, this provider walked in the room.
And of course, like I'd written very clearly in my
(42:04):
birth plan, like do not ask me if I need
an epidural.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
This person just walks into the room. Is like, do
you want an epidural?
Speaker 1 (42:10):
So when he said that, I was thinking to myself like,
this guy didn't read my birth plan at all. So
my doula approached him and started to talk to him
to tell him like this is this is what she wants.
And this provider he did not make eye contact with her,
he did not look at her. He lifted the palm
(42:31):
of his hand and put it about six inches in
front of her face.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Wow, and whoa what is that?
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah? And she and my dula stopped talking and I
I was I was in active labor, and I saw
what happened, and it scared the crap out of me.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
It.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
I mean, you know when you learn in a sympathetic response,
like there's fight or flight. When you're nervous system gets activated,
there's other, there's two other, there's fight, flight, there's freeze,
and fawn.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yeah, those are the four f's.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So when I get in a very activated state, my
default is fawning. I become like incredibly nice, charming. So
the moment I saw that, in my mind, I said
to myself like, oh God, this is not this is
not a safe Like I don't feel safe with this provider.
(43:34):
And I immediately became very pleasant, like very kind towards
him and just was like, thank you so much for
everything you're doing, like I'm doing fine, like thank you
for all of your help whatever. And then I remember
at one point he was talking to me and I
(43:54):
said to him like, oh, I'm about to have a contraction,
like could you please, could you please give me a minute,
I'm about to have a contraction. He says, okay, sure,
that's fine, and.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
So then I go within I s's a that's an
absurd thing to ask, by the way, like, oh you
mind if we take some time, I'm about to have
a contraction right now, sir? Is that okay? Can you? Yes? Fine, fine,
continue with your contractions? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (44:21):
No, I mean I fawn right, like I became I
And you know, it's funny, I became more proper while
I was amidst active labor for the sake of my
own safety. And this is something I've done historically as
a person of color living in the United.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
States, Like I do the same thing, just.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Like be good, right, like don't get in trouble. And so.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
I tell him, excuse me, please, can you give me
a minute to have these contractions?
Speaker 2 (44:50):
And he says sure, absolutely, and.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
So then I have a contraction, and again during my contractions,
I was very quiet and internal, so I closed my
eyes and I'm like just breathing and I'm like holding
my and however many sixty seconds or whatever passed and
then I then I was okay and then I can
and then I opened my eyes and I turned back
to him.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
I was like, Okay, what were you saying?
Speaker 1 (45:10):
And I'll never forget the look on his face, like
his eyes got so big, and he was like, wow,
like you're really handling those contractions pretty well. And I
was like thank you. And he's like, well, just let
us know if you need anything else, and then he
walks out of the room. And then I turned to
(45:31):
my husband and I was like that guy couldn't even
believe that a woman could hold her contractions, Like, you know,
the look on his face, like you know, he was
like he was like shocked that a woman could like
be with her body.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
You know.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Yeah, did you talk to your doula after that happened?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yeah, but because of the hemorrhage and stuff, we didn't
actually we debriefed for days about that. It wasn't until
two or three weeks later I got really, I had
like a lot of anger, like unprocessed anger, Like I
wish I had had the capacity to fire him in
(46:14):
that moment.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
I wish I had spoken up. I wish I had
done things differently.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
And I said to him, my dueler, I was like,
I'm so angry that I didn't speak up more to
protect you. And she was like, dude, you were laboring
like you were in a compromised state, Like, don't hold
yourself to that standard.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
You know you.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Have more capacity now three weeks later. Don't hold yourself
to that standard when you were in a totally compromised state.
And then she said something that really, uh, it just
it gets me. She's like she's like, I'm used to
them talking to me like that, and that really really
just this cannot be the world that we live in.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
This cannot be the world that we live in.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
I mean, Duela's in general, I think, are seen by
some medical providers as in the way or they don't
know enough about medical procedures to be in this position.
That's all, Okay, that's there, but you can't ignore the
race part. You can never ignore the race part. Like
that might be there, but that the idea that he
put his hand out, Like the arrogance of that, the
(47:26):
privilege of that, It's so ugly. It's such an ugly
thing to do. I have never not even to like,
to my child, have I ever done that, even though
adults have the sense of authority, and I have never
like dismissed my kid like that. You're telling me you're
going to dismiss another human being. And also it's like
(47:46):
not even seeing the racial dynamics there and not caring.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Right, the optics do not look good, oh no, Yeah,
and the feeling of the other person, like obviously this
this person has dealt with shit like that for a
long time, and to do.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
It in that moment, in that moment when someone's giving,
you know, delivering a child, it's beyond disgusting. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, But my story is one of so many. I mean,
just recently there has been all over the news of
a woman who also was in labor and also works.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
As a doula.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Yeah, And she was in labor in Florida and she
wanted to attempt something called a vaginal birth after a
sea section, which is a higher risk birth, but she
wanted to attempt it, and she had had a couple
of prior sea sections before, for reasons that have not
(48:49):
been publicly divulge yet, she didn't want a sea section,
so she was then subpoena by a court and they
pulled up a zoom and on that zoom she was
like on a laptop in labor at the hospital, and
on that zoom were a bunch of lawyers and a
judge and they were basically at court ordering her to
(49:15):
get a C section. I mean, this is like beyond
not okay, you know it was. It was like it
basically an attempt to control her right to how she
wants to labor legally.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Yes, I mean it's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
It's terrifying, But I mean the reality is that in
certain states, pregnant people have fewer rights than other people.
You know, as human beings in a medical system, we
have the right to refuse medical treatment and that includes surgery.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
That's your right.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
But if you are pregnant somehow in certain states like Florida,
you have fewer rights, which is terrifying.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
As a woman, you're already dealing with the bias against you,
plus you're in a compromised position being pregnant about to
give birth, like You're in a very vulnerable situation and
that's being used against you, like it's being weaponized.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
This is totally totally unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
We'll be back with more health stuff after this break.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Can we backtrack just for a moment, just to talk
about because you know, we've heard about c sections that
aren't new, but can we kind of define what makes
a C section and when it's used?
Speaker 1 (50:40):
Yeah, And I think before we get into c sections, like,
I want to also say that, like c sections can
also save lives. Let's be clear about that, Like there
are some times where c sections are really really important
and necessary. But what's really interesting is that over the
last fifty years, c section rates have increased by a
(51:00):
factor of seven, meaning today one in three women give
birth by C section, and it's literally it's the most
common surgical procedure performed in the United States.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
But so the rate varies dramatically depending on the hospital, right,
because yes, there's a statistics that say, for the lowest
rate is seven percent, but the highest rate is seventy percent,
which is terrifying, Like, how is it that high?
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Yes, yes, and this is something that again I wish
I had known beforehand, But you can look up hospital
c section rates.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
There's a source.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Leap Frog Group is the source, but you can actually
look up which hospitals have what sea section rates to
see like is am I going to deliver at a
hospital where there's a very high likelihood that I'm going
to get a sea section? Now, across the world, twenty
one percent of births are by sea section, like countries
(52:07):
like Brazil, it's it's more than half of babies are
delivered by sea section.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Why is that? Why? Why are the rates so different?
Why is it so high in Brazil? And is the
Dominican Republic.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Like why like, for example, Brazil highest sea section rate
in the world.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
I think a lot of it has to.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
Do with financial incentives and the way the healthcare system
is structured because and this is the same in the
United States, but sea sections generate more revenue than vaginal births.
Speaker 3 (52:44):
So it's it's I'm just trying to come to terms
like this. I know capitalism like runs all of this,
but it's just nuts to imagine, like how every aspect
of everything, including birth is monetized. Like you can see
like this is this is the path to more money.
Put you know, c section, put the kid in the
(53:06):
NICU regardless, that's more money. That's I don't even know
how to digest that.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Clearly, I mean, we if we effectively live in a
culture or a world where money is the god, like
money is the god that is worshiped, Like it's not
in God we trust, it's in money we trust, right right,
you know? So, yeah, the financial thing is one part.
And I think also not not being sued is another reason,
(53:41):
probably in Brazil that physicians perform se sections, because it's
it's basically like practicing defensive medicine. So yeah, basically they're
they're doing it because they don't want to be sued,
which which is crazy. It's like really crazy, just.
Speaker 3 (54:02):
Like what we just talked about in terms of providers
not listening to black women who are giving birth, if
the mother is a black woman, they are twenty percent
more likely to have a C section than white women,
even with the same risk factors. Research shows this is
driven by provider bias, of course, systemic issues, communication gaps,
and hospital capacity, rather than medical necessity.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Yeah, exactly, And studies show that there are higher rates
of unnecessary, unplanned c sections, and this to me really
points to failures in listening to black patients. Yeah, yeah,
(54:47):
I wonder like, for example, if my doula had been
a white woman, would would she have been treated differently?
Speaker 3 (54:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Probably we need to stop just talking about this, like
there's enough data to show that there are really bad
disparities and we need to actually do something about it.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
And it's crazy because you.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Know, even like Serena Williams came out about her near
she had like a near death experience after birth, and
her her whole takeaway from that was that like she
wasn't listened to. Yeah, she ended up having I believe,
pulmonary umbolism. So she was like complaining, which can happen
(55:33):
after birth? That's like that can be a complication of childbirth.
And she was sort of telling them that, you know, hey,
my legs are numb or like I can't move my
legs or my back and I've passed out, and they
were just like, oh, no, like you're fine, like we
you know, you don't need anything. And she actually was
(55:54):
having a pulmonary embolism.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
You know, It's just like no, and think about that, Serena,
I know Williams, if somebody that famous is having these
issues like that shows you how powerful race is in
this country.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
We need to listen to what people are saying and
we need to believe patients. So Ever since wrote v.
Wade was overturned, and there seems to be more of
(56:31):
a controlling of women's bodies, you know, we're seeing more
and more really strange stories like this propping up in
the news, like the court ordered C section, which is
completely completely unacceptable. It's really kind of creating this sense
(56:54):
of like, do women have autonomy over their own bodies?
Speaker 3 (57:01):
Clearly there's a political context to this right, you know,
unequal rights. Pregnant women in some states have fewer rights
and other mentally competent adults to refuse medical treatment, including surgery.
There's constitutional questions. The rise of fetal personhood policies has
some legal experts worried about an increase in court ordered
(57:22):
medical care. Now that's another you can't ignore this discussion
of when is a person a person because that's going
to affect medical care, that's going to affect how it's
viewed in court as well. And then there are disparities
in places like Florida. Florida has gone further than other
states to guarantee medical freedom to those who decline vaccines
(57:44):
but also has restricted medical freedom of pregnant women. So like,
you're dealing with these issues and they're not happening in
a void. They happen in this context, and they affect
things even as you know, as essential as giving birth.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
You know, I'll tell you one thing, Like, while giving birth,
I feel like I tapped into feminine energy, feminine power
in a way that I had never before experienced. And
what I feel I understand about feminine energy after going
(58:22):
through that experience is that feminine energy is deep, powerful, raw,
It's savage, and it's incredibly beautiful. And I can see
why someone would want to control it, cap it, snippet,
(58:42):
put it in a box and not let it get
out because it could be perceived as really wild and chaotic.
But I think on a higher level, this is about
us as a species, us as a society, really getting
comfort with raw feminine power.
Speaker 3 (59:04):
Yeah, where you live matters when it comes to giving birth.
More than thirty five percent of urban hospitals and many
rural hospitals lack obstetric services, forcing patients to travel long
distances for care. So where you live is essential here.
It's not you know, in New Mexico, the median is
(59:24):
sixty three minutes in North Dakota. It's sixty three minutes
to get to a hospital where you can give birth.
Speaker 1 (59:31):
Yeah, and so the impact of that, you know, if
it takes you an hour to get to the clinic, right,
what is the implication. It's it's going to mean you're
going to have fewer prenatal visits, higher risk of preterm births.
Speaker 2 (59:47):
You know, riskier births.
Speaker 1 (59:48):
Right, Like there's a higher likelihood that you might give
birth in a car if you're spending an hour commuting
to the hospital. So it's riskier, right, And more than
thirty five percent of the country are considered a maternity
care desert. So that's not like insignificant. We as a
country can do more to solve that problem. Like, to me,
(01:00:11):
that seems like a very solvable problem.
Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Charec. We've talked about a lot of things that are
hard in this episode, but I want to bring it
back to you. Can you share some moments of love
and joy that you have had?
Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Yeah, I mean there's something about motherhood. It's like, Wow,
you can feel so much deep, profound love for this
new human being who you'll do anything for. I mean,
it's it's that that to me is the medicine, you know,
And it's at the moment I came home with my son,
(01:00:50):
my cortisol levels went down, my blood pressure went down,
my heart rate went down, like my love and joy
went up such that even like these the sleepless nights
are heaven compared to what we went through in the hospital,
you know.
Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
And so.
Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
It this experience has like forever changed me and I've
learned so much and I hope to use this experience
to like just basically help other people not go through
the things that I had to go through. Like so
for example, like things I wish i'd known, like look
up your hospital c section rates, look up your hospital
(01:01:33):
nick you admission rates, look up your hospital episiotomy rates.
That's another thing, you know, research your hospitals, Uh, when
choosing where to go and interview your obs, Like if
you're not comfortable, find a different ob, ask lots of questions,
do research, and I would I would plug hypnoe birthing.
(01:01:57):
I really think that helped me a lot too.
Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
Prianka, I'm so glad you're back. I'm so glad that
you are healthy, that the baby is healthy, that we're
doing this welcome back, and I can't think of a
better way to wrap up this show.
Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Thank you so much, and if you're enjoying the show,
please like, subscribe and leave us a five star review
wherever you listen. It helps more people discover the podcast
and it makes a huge difference for us.
Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
We appreciate your sport. Health Stuff is a production of
iHeart Podcasts. The show is hosted by Me, doctor Preancle Wally,
and Harrikonnebolu. Producers are Rebecca Eisenberg, Jenna Cagel, Christina Loranger,
Maya Howard, and Katrina Norvel. Our researcher is Maria Tremarki
(01:02:47):
and our intern is Katiya sobel lea Ayala. To send
us a question, you can email us a voice memo
at health Stuff Podcasts at gmail dot com. Thanks so
much for listening.
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