Music & Therapy with DJ Hesta Prynn

Priyanka and Hari explore the healing power of music with DJ Hesta Prynn, a DJ and therapist blending neuroscience, psychology, and music. From earworms and breakup songs to rave culture, lullabies, and ketamine-assisted therapy, they unpack why certain songs hit so deeply, how music shapes emotion and memory, and whether the songs we obsess over might be telling us something about ourselves.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is for information purposes only and should not
be considered professional medical advice. As someone I really respect
once explained to me that this process of healing, it's
not about feeling better, it's about getting better at feeling.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Like who doesn't want to talk about records and in
the end be happier in the life they're living.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
I think medicine needs more DJ answers.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm Hurrycandibolu, I'm doctor pre uncle Wally, and this is
health stuff.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Do you wake up to music? Do you listen to
music when you wake up?

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Or is well, yes, yeah, I do, Like I have
a list of songs and I'll just listen to those
first thing in the morning.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Nice.

Speaker 4 (00:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
I don't know if you get this, but do you
get earworms where songs get stuck in your head and
then they play over and over like maybe a mine
from a song or it just is like really catchier,
competitive and then it just goes on a loop.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's It's it's great at first because
it's like, oh, I love that song, and then after
a while it's like this is so irritating. I wanted
to I think currently my song is summer Eileen and
drunk Dory by Weezer.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Okay, which line specifically, it's none of the lines, it's
just the the rhythm.

Speaker 4 (01:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Oh interesting, Yeah, Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Usually it's it's it's a lyric, but this time it's
not a lyric. And then there's another Weezer song called
go Away and so the So the two of those
songs are kind of playing in a loop even though
they don't go together.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
Okay, it's very weird. It's been two days and it's
just going interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
I wonder what has been going on in your life
over the last two days that triggered this year worm?

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Do you think it needs to be triggered?

Speaker 3 (01:52):
You don't think it's just like you listen to something
and for whatever reason, it just pops in.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
It could be that my experience with earworms is that
they occur with some kind of association with something I'm
dealing with in the present moment. So like, for example,
right now, I'm nursing my baby at night, feeding my
baby at night, and since my baby has come home,

(02:21):
the song that gets stuck in my head at like
three in the morning is like a G six, Specifically
the line like fucking bottles on ice because that's literally
like what happens like popin bottles on ice, sip in
and slide in or whatever. The lyric is like a

(02:41):
G six. I never used to have that song stuck
in my head, and now that's literally what comes on
in my mind only at three in the morning, and
then once I put him down, I go to sleep
and then it doesn't bother me for the rest of
the day.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
That's so funny.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
And you know, when when I was beginning the birth process,
the day I woke up where I was scheduled to
have this induction that morning, the first song that popped
in my head was the line from Cheryl Crow's song
First Cut is the Deepest. The song itself is about

(03:22):
a heartbreak, but that line first cut is the deepest.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
That part plays over and over.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
We went over and over and over, and for the
listeners that have heard my story, I mean, I had
like a very challenging birth experience, so I feel like
that was something in my subconscious telling me, like, your
first time, it's gonna be really hard. And I'm not

(03:51):
like a Cheryl Crow fan. It was just like it
just happened. So for me, when I get earworms, it's
correlated to something.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
At least when you like the song, like it helps.
But when it's a song you don't like but it's
very catchy, it's the worst.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
It's tough. It's tough. I know. After the Bad Bunny
super Bowl performance, Yeah, I had his entire fifteen minute
performance really playing on loop in my head. Yeah. I
think Bad Buddy songs are incredibly, incredibly catchy. Yeah, whether
you know Spanish or not, they're they're just there's something

(04:33):
about the frequency and the vibration of that music that
it just it gets you.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, so yeah, So, I mean, today we're going to
talk about the impact of music on our health, specifically
with an really incredible guest who is a DJ and
a therapist, Like talk about a double threat and DJ
has to print. We'll be able to basically answer the
question for us about if that random song that you

(05:01):
can't stop playing in your head, is it actually random
or not. So it's funny to me that there are
studies in medicine about the health benefits of music, because
it seems so obvious to me that music would be
good for our health, Like, we don't need a randomized
controlled trial showing us that it lowers depression, right, Like,

(05:22):
human beings have been making music since we were human beings,
whether it was like beating a drum or slapping your
hand on a rock or your your thigh like this
is to make music is to be.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Human, yes, yes, and to reflect the human experience through
sound exactly.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
And so to me, it's always comical when I see
published studies talking about the health benefits of music for
specific illnesses, because it's like, yeah, of course the person's
going to feel better temporarily when they listen to the music,
Like I don't need to shell out a study for that.
But alas, we live in a world where unless you

(06:04):
have evidence, you're not gonna get validity in the medical realm,
which is unfortunate.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
I mean, I would like to know whether music increases depression.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Okay, why do you think that.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Because There's been times where I've been down where I've
listened to sad songs and I don't think it helps me.
It's not like all this song is relating to me.
I understand it. It gets me deeper in the whole.
If I listen to the Red House Painters or the
Cure or the Smiths or Joy Division, it doesn't get
me excited and up and out of it. It just

(06:42):
kind of buries me deeper. It's the soundtrack for the sadness.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, totally, gosh, yeah, I mean this conversation is making
you remember years ago, I went through this breakup right
as part of the grieving process, I just kept listening
to this one Taylor Swift song, Oh God, over and
over and over, and there was something about it going
on loop that was just keeping me in this grieving state.

(07:11):
And I was like, so sad about this breakup. And
then I took a flight somewhere and I was like
listening to the Taylor Sliff song and sobbing on the airplane.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
And That's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Like it also music triggers all sorts of reactions.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
So I'm really curious to talk to our guests today.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Well that's a great question, you know my take, because
I was, for that specific situation going through like this
grieving period and I needed to feel the pain in
order to eventually release it. Whenever I feel sad, one
of the things that I tell myself is that this

(07:50):
sadness is a teacher. It's there to show me something.
It's teaching me something, and so in many ways it's
important to feel it so that you don't miss the lesson.
And in the example with the breakup, I mean what
that sadness essentially taught me was that like I was
just like interested in the wrong type of person completely,

(08:14):
and so remembering that sadness helped actually guide me. So
in many ways, as painful as that breakup was, it
was critical teaching for me to learn to not do
the same mistake in the future. So I actually am
thankful to that Taylor Swift song for being played on

(08:35):
repeat because it helped me like sit with the feeling
to eventually then release it.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
What if a.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Random song you can't stop playing isn't random? Our guest
today is DJ has to print who may be able
to answer that question for us has to combines live
djaying with clinical training and a background in neuroscience to
create experiences that shift energy, focus, and connection in real time.
As a licensed clinical therapist and DJ, she's in a

(09:06):
really unique position to combine those experiences into a complex
interplay of factors like using music theory, human psychology, and
artistic expression to explore the healing power of music. Welcome
Hasta to the show.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Thanks for having me. That's quite an intro. Is that
on my website? I don't even know where you've got that.
I love that though.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
Oh we're good, We're real good.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, very thorough here. Yeah, okay, So I am so
curious to get to know you. What came first being
a DJ or being a healer? What's your origin story?

Speaker 2 (09:46):
I love this question. So I've been a DJ for
fifteen years. I started really DJing professionally as my only
job in twenty ten, so sixteen years, I guess. And
I became a DJ because I was in an all
girl hip hop group called Northern State Feminist Hip Hop
Grip at a Shaved Head, and we went on tour
with the Roots, and I ended up touring with the

(10:06):
Roots on and off for about two years. And I
always really loved being in the studio and talking to people.
And Questlove has this incredible vinyl library in Philly, and
I was going through a terrible breakup and I didn't
want to like leave the studio ever, so I would
hang out and you know, kind of listen to the
records and play with the records. And he taught me
how to mix vinyl where you put both records, you know,

(10:26):
one on the left side, one on the right side,
and you loop them. And he taught me to do
that using a song called Kites are Fun from like
a Norwegian family band. So he showed me, you put
it on the left side, kites are fun. Put it
on the right side, Kites are Fun, and back and
back and back and forth. And I really liked doing it,
and I was I was pretty good at it, and
I really preferred that to being like in the band.

(10:48):
That's how I became a DJ. I did that for
a lot of brands and some celebrities and different types
of acts and things for a long time. But I
was always interested in becoming a therapist. I was like,
one day, my forties, I'll become a therapist. Like that'll
that'll never come, that will never happen. And then during
the pandemic, I had done a couple of years of
graduate school kind of here and there, but I was
really on tour as a DJ, and during the pandemic,

(11:11):
all of my events canceled in seventy two hours, right,
and I had a panic attack, my first and only
and I called my brother and he said, well, why
don't you see if you could like finish graduate school,
because that would be a pandemic proof job. So I
started going to graduate school. And I was on air
at SERIOUSXM at the time talking about music and my
connection to music, and I started djaying on social media

(11:34):
thirty minutes a day. I called it indoor recess. Like
when I first got on, I was djaying and you know,
nobody was watching, and I felt like a total loser.
And then the next day I went on and I
just started to take records and talk about them. This
is why I love this album, this is what this
means to me, And people started to watch, and then
eventually that grew ten people, one hundred people, a thousand people.
Between that Instagram show and the work I was doing

(11:57):
on SERIOUSXM, I kind of started developing what is now
my modality music connection therapy. I started developing some of
these ideas like why did the songs the pop songs?
This isn't like singing bowls and you know, this isn't
like sort of woo woo, burning man out there type stuff.
Why is it that when I listened to this Lady
Gaga record, it brings up these feelings for me? How

(12:18):
come Joni Mitchell makes me cry and nothing else does.
Like everyone has songs like these, and people would call
in the radio and say, this song reminds me of
my dad, this song reminds me of my hometown. So
that became like my kickof this reminds me of your hometown.
What was that like for you? While it was a
small town and you know I felt so alone? Is
that true?

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Who knows you?

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Who's with you? Is your sister with you? Did she
find you? That way became this way to sort of
like acts ex people's emotional experience without asking the boring
therapy questions. Right, Yeah, So after the pandemic, you know,
I finished graduate school, I became a licensed clinician. Like
you know, one thing led to another, and now I
do this live experience on the dance for that's a

(13:00):
mix of music and neuroscience and psychology and curation and
it's a lot of fun because it allows people to
really feel things, but in like a fun way and
in a safe way.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
We'll be back with more health stuff after this break.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
What is it about music that helps us tap into
our emotions? Is it lyrics or is it just the sow?
The sound hits us like what is it about music?

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Well, I don't think it's one thing or the other.
The process the science answer right, because that's what we're
doing here, is like it bypasses the prefrontal cortex, the
thinking part of our brain, the youngest part of our
brain that makes us human. And when we say I'm
feeling I have anxiety because of X y Z, we're
telling a story with our prefrontal cortex. Music bypasses that
and it goes right back here to the limbic system,

(13:52):
and that's where the oldest part of our brain, the
lizard brain, where all of our feelings are and all
of our memories are stored. So like if I played
this song, let's say, time after time.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
You can just yeah, see how I.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Just said the name of the song and both of
you I could see in your eyes and you made
the sound like this is not a thinking response. I
spoke to the back of your brain just by saying
the name of that song. And my job, because I'm
like a DJ and I like to rock a party
first and foremost, is my job is to know which
songs are going to make you go m you know

(14:28):
what I mean? Yeah, without telling you.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
So this is truly brilliant, like what you've created here
with what you call Music Connection Theory or MCT. Can
you walk us through what is MCT, how does it
work and what can it be used for therapeutically?

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yes, MCT is music connection therapy, right, that's my modality.
And so what I do is I when I do
one on one sessions, I'll tell you how it goes
about that. For half an hour, we're going to talk
about your life and an area of your life that
you want to change. Maybe it's relationships, maybe it's money,

(15:08):
maybe it's your body you want to get into shape. Right,
we talk about this and we sort of uncover what
your dream is for that area of your life where
you are now which is usually pretty far away from that,
and what's standing in your way and the thing that's
standing in your way, your excuses as we call them.
That's just like your negative inner dialogue. So I help people,
like in a fun quick way, get really clear on

(15:31):
this stuff. And then we put it to music. So
I figure out with you based on kind of where
you come from, how old you or who you are.
You know, we curate together songs that make you feel
the way you need to feel to talk back to
that negative inner dialogue. Does that make sense?

Speaker 4 (15:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (15:49):
And then I have a playlist of things that you're
getting rid of and a playlist of things that you're
bringing in. So the idea is it takes four hundred
repetitions of a new thought or behavior to create a
new neural pathway, but with play shortens the repetition time
down to ten to twenty. So my theory, which is
pop psychology in some ways, because it's unproven, right, I'm
proving it. I'm proving it session by session, dance by

(16:12):
dancelor Eventually I will do the science behind this, right,
I'll come back on and let you know what we discover.
But my theory is that, for example, if I listen
to dom Daala, who's a Australiandigi I love. If I
listen to dom Dalla's records when I work out every
single day for like two months. If I then am
walking down the street and I listen to dom Daala,
will it make my heart pound? Will it make me

(16:33):
burn more calories? Will it help me grow muscle like
Pavlov's dog? Will the song do the lifting for me?
I think it will, And so I do this with
people in an emotional way that helps them change their lives. Wow.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
I have a little boy, and when I had to
start singing him lullabies like the things that came into
my head the first and that I seem to know
the best or the songs I listen to as a teenager.
So everything he listens to like or knows is like
nineties alternative rock records and the Pixies and Weezer, And

(17:13):
so he's like, you know, that's what he grew up,
that those are his lullabies, right, And I just find
it so weird that like that was just a certain
part of my life. But even this many years later,
I still feel connected to the music I listened to
as a teenager. Is this more than nostalgia?

Speaker 2 (17:31):
This? This is first of all, I got to ask you.
As you can see in my studio, Pixies and Weezer
are probably right. Yeah, the Pixies are my favorite band.
What's the lullaby that you're saying?

Speaker 4 (17:41):
Gigantic?

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Ah, A big, big love? What about from Weezer?

Speaker 3 (17:48):
I mean anything off the Blue record? I mean the
world has turned has left me here? Is for some
reason that percentage wise seems to bring him to like
get him to sleep more than any other Weezer song.
And I don't know why I more than in the
This is an unscientific study, but this is based on
several years of research. Every night, but that seems to

(18:08):
do it more than say it ain't so in the garage,
definitely not. My name is Jonas, but but yeah, the
world has turned left me here.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
It definitely is the one that gets.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
I love that one. Another one I would try if
I was curating Weezer for Lallabizas, I would go on
the green record that last song, Oh Girlfriend, I Miss
You and no wonder how Yeah, exactly. Okay, now that
we've now that we've gotten I'm like, now that we've
gone through that, let me go be a silentist again,
all right. And I just I'm like, I just want

(18:38):
to be a DJ. What I always got to talk
like a clinician. Okay, So what you're talking about is
the songs, the music of your youth. This is my
this is I do a whole series on Instagram called
Lessons from the Nineties and it does very well because
those of us who grew up in the nineties like
you and me were. It's so deeply connected to it.
So everyone thinks the songs of their teenage years were
the best songs, and they actually were biologically because so

(19:01):
much of your brain comes online when you are going
through puberty. Gross such a gross word, right too, But
when you're going when you go through puberty, so much
of your brain comes online. You actually are coming alive.
You understand, there's pieces of you that are coming to
the planet Earth when you're going through this time in
your life. So now they're playing what's playing in the background. Well,

(19:24):
and if you ask people from the sixties what the
best music that ever was was, that's what they're going
to tell you. They're going to tell you led Zeppelin,
who's my favorite band? If you ask people from the seventies,
they're going to always have this soft spot for like
certain types of dance records and certain types of like
psychedelic rock and roll. People from the eighties will always
and forever love those pop records, and you and me
will always love Nirvana, Pixies are the Pixies, Weezer and

(19:44):
Soundgarden and Mother Love Bone and Temple of the Dog
and like the real Deep Cuts. Now, I don't know
if you've heard that Temple of the Dog record. Lately
it's not that good, but but when we were hearing it,
it was as if we were here music for the
very first time, because parts of our brains were hearing
music for the very first time. It's like, imagine the

(20:07):
first taste of ice cream you ever had, Like when
you have your kid does the first birthday and they
do the cake smash. Yep, we that, Yeah, of course
you did. And so it's the first time the kid
tastes sugar like that, and you take pictures and the
child's like, oh my god. Like the kid is like,
you know, launching into space because parts of this child's
nervous system are operating for the first time ever. That's

(20:27):
you and me listening to in Utero. Well, you know,
but you're gonna have the coolest kid if you're singing
nineties like you know, alternative rock as lullabies. I want
my kids to be friends with your kid.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
I wanted just a touch base to something you briefly
remarked on a couple of minutes ago around just I'm
a DJ, but I have to be a clinician. Yeah,
you know, that really resonated with me, you know, as
a physician who also has been a performer, and you're
advocating a kind of therapy right now that it's relatively new, right,

(21:10):
Like there's no RCTs to back up sort of like
what you're saying and whatnot. But clearly, I mean I
was telling Harry earlier like, we don't need studies to
show us that music feels good and is beneficial for
our health. Yeah, So I'm curious about how do you
personally toggle these two worlds, Like this very scientific, evidence

(21:30):
based world where you you got to have studies to
kind of validate what you're saying, But then the music world,
it's all it's vibration, it's energy, it's you know, totally opposite.
How do you balance that?

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, I love this question, and yes, you and I
have have this in common right in a lot of ways.
That's why I'm excited to be on the show speaking
with you. First of all, there are studies around music
and the power of music and the healing power of music,
but I don't because I use pop records and because
I'm using songs people love to access emotional states, it's

(22:04):
not totally totally you know, relevant one to one to
what I do. So the question is totally valid. You know,
the reason I became a licensed clinician, and maybe you
can relate to this in some ways, is because I
didn't want to be a DJ who likes mental health,
like that's a great thing to be. I'm a successful
DJ too, I'm not, like, you know, totally a bedroom
DJ where I have anything to prove. And yet and yet,

(22:27):
like you know, the the idea of being like a
DJ with a cool idea, it didn't turn me on.
I was like, I'm going to become a licensed clinician
because other clinicians know what it takes to make that happen.
I'm not a life coach, you know, and so I
have been trained in postmodern therapy techniques. I'm an LMFT,
and so I use a lot of this, like in

(22:47):
session when I talk to you, when I do the
first half of the session before we curate your playlist,
I'm speaking to you as a therapist. I'm speaking to you,
you know. Structurally, I use a lot of Michael White
narrative therapy, like I use the models I use EFT,
like I use the models that are scientifically proven that
have been you know, what is it? RCTs random controls

(23:11):
tell Yeah. I was like, I know exactly what she's
talking about, but I'm using those techniques and then when
I bring my piece into it, that's the part where
I'm really experimenting. I also wanted to become a licensed
clinician because I wanted to make sure I was doing
this in a safe way. So I do this work mostly.
I do one on one sessions, but I bring my

(23:31):
big live dance floor experience mostly to companies, so I
work at Google. I was just in Sweden keynoting a conference,
and I never could do that if I wasn't licensed,
because I think people trust me because I know how
to create the container. I know how to pace it,
I know how to keep it safe. I can really
read the room and read the energy, but in a
clinical way. I can really read the room so that

(23:54):
we're not going too far, we're not going too deep.
We're having a transformational experience. But sometimes, you know, I
walk into these spaces and I'm like the first spiritual
person these folks have ever met. I'm not, and I'm
not that far out. It's like I want to wake
people up. I love to like ignite people and wake
them up and get them psyched because I'm a DJ,
I'm a vinyl DJ. I want to like, you know,

(24:14):
like rock this dance floor, Like that's what I want
to do. I don't need to take people to their
deepest trauma and have them like heal it with me
through music, although I very much believe that it's possible
to do that, and some folks who are using psychedelics
and music together are doing this work in a very
deep way, and there are studies about that that are

(24:35):
super exciting. But that's not my beat.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
Oh absolutely, I mean yeah, So I actually work with
Ketymine and my private practice doing kedemineasisted therapy, and the
music is a huge, huge part of the treatment. I mean,
it is critical to have a very well curated playlist

(24:59):
for the specific client. So what's so beautiful about what
you're saying, though, is the mindfulness with which you decided, Hey,
I'm going to become a licensed therapist and create a
sense of true safety and then use my great DJ skills.

(25:20):
I mean, to me, it's the definition of the art
of medicine. Like that, to me is what practicing the
art of medicine is about. So I think that's really awesome.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Well, Thank you. That's so great to hear. I have
a question for you. How do you curate the playlist
when you do the ketamine therapy? And is this like
a one time experience? Is it like people are coming
back for a serious Can you tell me a little
bit about that, because I'm curious.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah, So, every session is there's a lot of preparation
done before the actual session, and intention setting is a
huge part of that. We set an intention for what
they plan on seeking out of the session, what what
is their goal? What are they trying to understand or

(26:03):
get closer to, And so then the music is structured
around that intention. With the way ketamine works as a
medicine is that there's usually a slow start, so the
music rhythmly is quite gentle, and then as the medicine
sort of takes deeper effect in the body, the music

(26:24):
itself will intensify and timed out to the actual session,
whether it's an intramuscular session or depending on the dose
that's decided. So intention setting is a big part of it.
And generally, I mean I've said this before, but the
studies for depression, which is an FDA off label use
for ketamine, generally shows about a seventy percent reduction and

(26:48):
depressive symptoms after six treatments in a two to three
week period, So that's kind of an estimate, but of
course individual results may vary. Some people may not need
six treatments, some may only need one or two, and
some need more than six, So it just depends on
the nature.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, are you are you curating the music? I choose
the playlist for specific session? What kind of records do
you pick? Are you picking?

Speaker 3 (27:13):
Like?

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Are you picking records? People know? Are you picking songs?
Vibe records?

Speaker 4 (27:18):
Like?

Speaker 2 (27:18):
How do you pick it?

Speaker 1 (27:19):
It's majority is instrumental. The the artists are all over
like Sacred Earth Guard Stevenson, DJ dres mcog like SCJ,
and like a whole sort of range depending on where
in the session they're going to experience kind of the

(27:41):
peak and whatnot. And I have so many I have
so many songs like I can't It's like it's just
like songs and songs and songs.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
So it's very it's very cool. I have I have
some friends of mine in my world who are deep
in this work as well. Nice and I've like experimented
with this work. I did a did an experience called
the Art of Sound for all acoustics. All acoustics like
super highest high end audio equipment. And they had a
company called Compass that uses psilocybs, so they use and

(28:14):
they're amazing then and I had dinner with them after
and they use psilocybin and the music and sting you know,
is invested in uh And I was really like turned
on by this and for me because as a as
a therapist, as a clinician, I was like, is there
a way I can blend what I do with what
these folks do? And I'm saying it because I think
there's a cool opportunity for it. Like at some point

(28:38):
I feel like I feel like that's where I'm going
to get my trial.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, there's definitely Like you and I should connect after.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
We really should.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
More.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
After this break, I had a question how do earworms work?
How do they happen? How does the brain pick the song?
And I think this is the most important question, how
do you make it stop?

Speaker 2 (29:10):
You know, I really wish that I had like a
scientific answer.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
You know.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
The reason I said, God, I just want to be
a DJ and not a therapist, or sometimes I say,
now it's a DJ. Talking now, it's a therapist talking
is because as a DJ, I can just like tell
you what I think and be like here's what you
should do, like this is what's up. And I'm most
comfortable in that space. And when I speak as a clinician,
I'm like, oh, you got to know what you're talking about.
You can't just like bullshit hear about something that. So
I'm going to answer this as a DJ, not a therapist.

Speaker 4 (29:35):
How about that?

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Because I don't because I don't know the answer. I
believe and this is what I do is that I
think we choose a song that says something we can't.
So for example, there's a Kalid song, not DJ Kalid, Kalid,
right different artists Calid or Kalid. I'm not sure exactly
you say it. The song is called know You're Worth
you Don't Know You're It's like a like a gentle

(29:57):
EDM song, right chill DM, and I've been listening to
it a lot lately. It's like made its way onto
my playlist. And there's a line in the song where
he says find someone who will love you at your worst,
which I think is like an interesting turn of phrase.
It doesn't exactly quite rhyme and it kind of like
falls away in there, and I've been listening to it
a lot. And when I noticed myself listening to the

(30:18):
same record a lot because I'm into this work, I'm like,
why am I listening to this record so much? What's
happening here? And I was able to connect it to
something I was feeling in my relationship, like it was
one to one. I was like, oh, duh, Like I
want my husband to love me at my worst and
feel unconditional love and support and all these things. I
think that that happens a lot more than we realize.

(30:38):
Like I would invite anyone listening right now to without
thinking too hard about it, identify the song that you're
listening to over and over and over again, and without
thinking too much about it, ask yourself, what is the
song saying that I can't? And I find that to
be that's like very music connection therapy because it's scientific ish,

(31:02):
it's fun, and it's self discovery. Most of us don't
ask these questions, what am I feeling? What's repeating inside?
What's my what is my inner voice repeating? Is that
my intuition or is that my my demon? You know?
Is that negative inner dialogue. Is that coming from fear?
Is that coming from brattiness and not wanting to work? Like?

(31:25):
Where is that coming from? And I think that the
song you're listening to might hold the answer.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
If we're tapping into our emotions. And Harry was mentioning earlier,
like listening to a sad song, but it makes you
feel more sad, so you go like deeper into the sadness.
So what is your take on that? Like, if you're
tapping into an emotion but the emotions getting heavier, could

(31:55):
it backfire?

Speaker 2 (31:56):
I love this question. So, when you are sad, listening
to music doesn't make you sadder. What it does is
it matches you. It attunes to you, It settles your
nervous system. It makes you feel better, whether you cry
or you don't cry. So, like when you're a kid,
let's use an example of your kid, your nine Let's
say you have a kid who listens to nineties alternative music.
I'm just spitballing. Let's say that, so your kid. How

(32:19):
old is your kid?

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Now?

Speaker 4 (32:20):
Five and a half?

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Okay, perfect age? Kid comes home from school, daddy, Oh
my god, let me tell you what happens? Right, excited
and you say, oh my god, I can't wait to
hear about it. That's attunement. Yeah, here's another example, daddy, daddy,
let me tell you what happens. I don't have time
for you right now. You should see what my day
was like misattunement. Right, So, when someone attunes to you,

(32:42):
it settles your nervous system. It makes you go like this,
and you feel good, you feel better. All the chemistry,
right chords, all and all the things. When someone misattunes
to you, it's the opposite. It's a stress response. And
so I believe, and I think I'm right here that
the song, if the song match is your emotion, it
it tunes to you. So if I'm sad, I put

(33:03):
on torri Emos always now and forever and ever and ever.
Speaking of the nineties, I love Toy, but that's my
sad music. I put on Scarlet's Walk, not her best record,
but my favorite record. I put on Scarlet's Walk, and
it matches my sadness. And my sadness can be like
a mercurial, you know, like art school girl type of sadness.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
That's a sadness I go for, right, and that's her.
And when she sings it, and then we match and
my nervous system settles, and then I release it and
then I move on. So, if you're sad and you
listen to happy music, it makes you feel worse. If
you're sad and you listen to sad music, it will
help the emotion move through your body. If you're angry

(33:44):
and you listen to angry music, it's the greatest release,
isn't it. Isn't that why Metallica is such a big band.
Isn't that why everyone goes back to reage against the
Machine now and forever? Isn't that what some of us
love about certain hip hop records. I can feel these feelings.
This music sets the tone, and I'm it gives me
permission to feels me. Isn't that why women loved Alanis

(34:04):
and Fiona and Shirlie Manson and Courtney. It's like I
say their names and it gives me chills because it
makes me feel power because they allowed us to feel power.
And then I can sort of like release it and
move on with my day. Does that make sense?

Speaker 4 (34:19):
That makes sense?

Speaker 3 (34:20):
But what about situations where you're you're fairly neutral? Yeah,
and you know, one of my depression bands is the
Red House Painters.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
I don't know that band.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
Oh they're very sad.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Okay, it's okay, okay, But like it'll be like Red
House Painters, the Smiths Joy Divisions, Like you know, there's
there's a bunch of bands and I will listen to
it and they will they will trigger a certain kind
of depressed response for me, like they'll trigger sad thoughts
and emotions. Is that an example then, of miss misattainment?

Speaker 2 (34:53):
I don't think so. I think that there's you know,
I don't think that we're ever neutral. I challenged this
idea that one is emotionally neutral.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
Is that? Okay, what's the meaning of this? Right?

Speaker 2 (35:04):
And so I think when you know I'm meditating, I'm
sure you have meditation practices. I'm sure many people listening
here have the meditation practice. And I think when you've
kind of first I do TM, I've done TM for
I think nine years. So when I first learned TM,
and I didn't know that much about meditation, they explained
it to me, like when you settle and you know
you do TM, bubbles come up like from the bottom

(35:24):
of the ocean, you know, like air bubbles, and they
can come up and be physical sensations, and an emotion
is just a physical sensation. And so when you're in
stillness in meditation, you can feel a sadness can come,
or a worried headachey nous or relaxation, whatever is in
there for you can come up. And so if the

(35:45):
Red House Painters, I don't know this band, but if
the Red House Painters you said is one of your
depression artists, that's what you said, depression songs. So you
have wired your nervous system to the Red House Painters
in that way, just like when I said time after
time she that's is so powerful. She did it for
all of us. It was like it was a worldwide hypnosis.
You know what to feel when you hear that when

(36:06):
you're lost and you go up and you you know
when you hear I will survive by Gloria Gaynor, You
fucking know how to feel. So you have trained yourself
to feel a certain way when you hear the Red
House Painters. And so if you're if you think you're neutral,
I wonder if you're just not being conscious of what
you're feeling in your body. And when you settle and

(36:28):
the song comes on the song pulls that part of
you up because this depression or sadness or happiness whatever done,
all these emotions live in us all the time, right
make the surface anyway, And it's just what are we
allowing ourselves to feel in a given moment? What is
appropriate to feel in a given moment. People with depression,
like I'm sure you're patients who do the ketamine experiences,

(36:48):
their sadness is so profound and so overwhelming that they're
not able to feel anything else. And that's why you
do this work, and it releases this so that they
can feel other things. Doesn't mean they'll never feel sad again.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, someone I really respect once explained to me that
this process of sort of healing, it's not about feeling better,
it's about getting better at feeling.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
Oh beautiful, that's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
So that's so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Now one question I have, So you do one on
one therapy with clients?

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Is that correct?

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Okay? So is there is there like a dance floor
in your or.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
I do so many different things, but I do I
guess what you would call regular therapy. I have a
therapy practice. It's called direct support therapy. You can google
it like direct support like the opening band is the
direct support. But I do that type of therapy like
talk therapy, you know, and then I do music connection
therapy sessions and so that I do them over zoom

(37:46):
or I do them in person, and yeah, like sometimes
we move, but it's not it's not like I'm coaching
people through a dance floor experience one on one in
sort of like a weird New age kind of way.
That's why I'm like, yo, I'm a DJ first, Like
I'm literally like, I'm like, tell me about you know,
you just told me about this red house painters, and
you revealed something about you personally your feelings and you know,

(38:06):
something vulnerable or how you revealed the songs that you
sing to you to your baby right right, And so
that's me in the session. I'm like, Yo, which Pixies
song is that? Like why did you pick that one?

Speaker 4 (38:17):
Like?

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Oh, what does the kid think when we say this?

Speaker 4 (38:19):
Well?

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Tell me, like what was the song for you? Where
were you when you heard that? Who was there? Your friend?
Can I call your friend, call your friend on the phone,
text and ask him like it has it has to be.
It has to be for me and my clients. How
it has to be fun, has to be safe. I'm
really just going taking it back to you know, the
first day I learned how to be a DJ was
in the studio in Philly and I sat on the couch,

(38:41):
like the shiny black studio couch, and I sat there
and I talked about records. That's all I ever wanted
to do. That's what I did on Serious XM. I
would talk about records, just like we did when we
talked about the Lullabies.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
I know, I know all the records, and I want
not all of them. I know a lot of them.
I want to talk about the records. And so I
found a way to talk about the records but with
a path towards healing and changing your life, Like who
doesn't want to talk about records and in the end
be happier in the life they're living. Yep, right, Yeah,

(39:15):
So I'm teaching people how to do that.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Right, We're going to take a short break.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Stay with us.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Both Priyanka and I are stand up comics as well,
and so we both have to be in situations.

Speaker 4 (39:34):
Where we read the room, read the energy of the room.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
Sometimes you'll know like this room feels off, or the
comic before kind of set a certain tone. So now
I'm coming into that and you have to respond to that,
Like there is a degree of how do I play
to a crowd considering, you know, with the energy of
the crowd in mind, and you do the same thing
as a DJ.

Speaker 4 (39:53):
How do you read the room? Like? How do you
know how to respond?

Speaker 2 (39:58):
This is like my favorite talk. So I'm going to
give you two answers. There's two answers to the question.
The first thing is demographics. Who are these people? How
old are they? Where do they come from? And then
what I do is I subtract and I figure out
what was the music of their teenagers?

Speaker 4 (40:16):
Wow, that's smart.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
I've been doing that for over a decade. That's like
that that makes sense to me. So that's the first thing.
And that's the first question. You asked me about nostalgia, right,
because it's not nostalgia. Let me show you the first
song you ever heard. So I read the room of
who's in this room?

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Male?

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Female? Are in between? What are we like? How much
money do these folks have? Are they trying to show
how much money these folks like? Things like that? And
I try to pick enough cultural touch points that I'm
able to bring in like eighty five percent of them.
And I can get eighty five percent like that just
with the on paper knowledge and mix it up and
make it fun and perform it and sell it. Now

(40:53):
I got eighty five percent of this room. Okay, Now
I got to go for the other fifteen. This is
like the art part. And so what I do is
like I'll find one person. I'll be like this guy,
this like forty nine year old man. I played all
the right records, but he's not feeling it. So I
missed something. I'm gonna play like a motown joint and
see if, like maybe his dad used to play the

(41:14):
Big Chill soundtrack for him. Let's see, you know what
I mean. I'll play like that Stones record, like something
like that, and I'll play around. It's like how I
entertain myself. I'll play around with something until I figure
out what this dude is into. As soon as I
figure it out and I see him come alive, I'll
play a second one to check my work, and now
I got him. I often play for the security guards

(41:36):
in the room. That's another thing. It's like the people working.
Security guards are usually like men of a certain age
and demo. That's my easiest target because I have all
the same musical taste as them. I play sometimes for
like the bartending staff, you know, like the cater readers,
like these type of people because they want you to
be good so that their night doesn't suck. But they
don't have like a horse in the race, and so

(41:58):
sometimes I really just play for those people first, because
the energy will change if the people working in the
room are happy, the bartenders are having fun, because the
bartenders like the coolest people in the room. Security guards
are the biggest people in the room, the cater waiters
are moving around the space. Sometimes I aim for them first,
you know, especially now because the cater waders are all
like in their thirties. I play them some like you

(42:20):
know Timberland joints, so like a Nelly Furtado, promiscuous something
like this, and they all like they all just light up,
all play some like deep justin Timberlake cuts you know
where he would like guess on someone's record. People love
that stuff. Yeah, So that's how I read the room,
Like who is in this room? And how do I
read them?

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Now?

Speaker 2 (42:35):
I've now I've talked your ear off. How does a
comedian read the room, because that's a lot harder. You
don't have all these hit records, like you don't have
Michael Jackson to stand bylight, So how are you doing this?

Speaker 3 (42:47):
I mean sometimes it's talking to the crowd. You know,
it's not one of my favorite things to do, but
like certainly like talking to the crowd and getting a
sense of where they're at helps, and also being.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
In the room with them in the moment.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Like that's one thing about improvising or you know, ad
libbing in a moment is that they know that this
is genuine you're with me right now, and they give
you points for trying to be with them, you know,
and not just going to your act. So I think
that kind of connections is a big part of it.
Before you start, you know, basically playing any of your
songs right, playing any of you doing any jokes like

(43:20):
if to make sure that they know that this is
this is not pre recorded, like you're with them.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Before the show would start, I would always actually peak
my yeah through the curtain and look at like the
first two rows, like again, how how old, what their
demographics are, What's what's their vibe? If I can catch
you know a bit about what they're talking about, maybe,

(43:47):
you know, just sort of scoping out before the show starts.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
That's a funny kind of there's a bit of profiling too,
It's like yes, you know, like like he's wearing army
fatigue pants, backward hat, what.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Does this mean?

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Totally? I'm like, this man is wearing a Rolex sub mariner.
I'm like I played some you know, pitbull like totally exactly.
Being a stand up is the hardest and the most
powerful of all the performing arts because it's just you,
but no one can take it from you. You don't
need a you don't need a you know, a director

(44:23):
to cast you or write a script or you don't
need a record lya able to record that. You don't
need anybody. You just need yourself and your voice.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Right right. Have you ever DJ'ed an Indian wedding, because
that's probably hard as hell, like this some of the
hardest crowds to please.

Speaker 4 (44:38):
Yeah yeah, and to read yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Probably well, especially for me because it's not that's not
my culture. I have never DJ'd an Indian wedding. But
there was a time in New York about nineteen ninety
eight when there was a party called Basement Bangra do
you know, oh my.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
God, legendary, yes, DJ legendary Djra, Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
And I was super I got turned on to Bangram music.
I'm sure this, I'm sure I'm not the old non
Indian person who's gonna admit this. But of course I
found out about Bangra music because of the jay Z
funjab emc. Of course, I mean, that was the gateway,
that was the game. But jay Z is my favorite rapper,
still probably my favorite rapper. And so I used to
go to basement Bangra at was it at don Hill
No Sobs at Sobs And I would go. I had

(45:18):
like two of my homegirls that I would go with
sometimes and I got super into those vibes and like
that party was so lit, uh and it's so fun.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Well, I think it's such an important point around kind
of the other cultural musical therapies that exist out there,
you know, like when I think about, like, let's say
the way I grew up in my culture and Sanskrit
mantras like Amnthra is the original music, like you repeat

(45:51):
sort of this sound. It's essentially a sound and it's
literally for healing purposes and you look through the world.
I mean in South America. Indigenous tribes in Peru, the
Shapibo tribe, for example, they sing eCos when they do
ceremonies involving ayahuasca. Ecros is a song and the song

(46:16):
is what heals, according to the native Corndero's So the
idea that music is medicine is ingrained in our ancient societies,
and so you're essentially taking this to the modern level.
The question that I have for you is, then, how

(46:38):
how do you feel about like the ai music that's
being created? Now? You can create music, catchy music that
doesn't even need a human being? Is that still music?
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Got so many questions? You know, in Kabbalistic tradition there
are also songs and messages of healing written it and
Madonna actually samples some of these in the Confessions on
a Dance Floor record. And I love this idea, right,
and yes, what I'm trying to do. The group I
want to be in is like all of these leading
up to the modern day. Okay, but let me show

(47:13):
you how to use dualipa AI. Well, I'm curious what
you guys think as writers, because I'm sure you write
your own material but here's here's what I think. What
I have noticed is that on my substack, I was
using AI for a little while to help me with
my writing, and my engagement tanked and I was like,
what is going on? And I was using it but

(47:34):
engaging with it, but it wasn't working, and I was like,
I'm going to write this old school and I wrote
my last substack like just you know, by hands whatever,
and it came right back. So there is something in
the LMS that feels inhuman, and I'm going to guess
that music maybe is the same way. So TBD. That's
the first thing. The second thing is, yeah, of course,

(47:56):
I do think it's a tragedy that kids aren't going
to be learning instruments any more, because what's the point.
But that's been a problem since bands could no longer
make money on the road, Right, that's a technology problem.
I mean it's a problem of technology that you can
make a record in your basement. I can make a
record right here in my attic. We're making a podcast,
you know, like on the screens, so you don't have

(48:18):
to be a virtuoso anymore. And so now we have
the sounds of any person who can just because you
can doesn't mean you should. On the other hand, AI
is created by human beings. Is this not just the
natural extension or the next thing that we're doing. I
think it's like very tempting to say, like I like

(48:38):
things the way that I like things. I like the
music of my youth, or nostalgia, even if nostalgia is
just a human being playing an instrument, is nostalgia? At
some point that will be nostalgia. I like things the
way I like them and the way I understand them.
But like, we don't really know what the future is
at all. How can we say that it's worse if
machines make all the art, although I kind of think

(49:00):
it is, don't you like? What do you guys think?

Speaker 3 (49:02):
It just feels soulless? I mean, how can a machine
have a soul? How can a machine have feelings? Like
it's almost like they're interpreting and giving you what they
think human feelings are and how humans will respond, but
they themselves don't have it. Like it's something about that
feels manipulative over like this is a human being that's

(49:24):
in pain or is celebrating something or whatever, like has
these real emotions that are now being shared through music,
like you feel connected to that person all of a sudden.
If it's being if it's a machine, what are you
connecting to?

Speaker 1 (49:39):
I think AI music is going to be flawless music,
perfect music, catchy music, but it won't have that preciousness
that I think a human voice with like a slightly
irregular pitch and you know, just the subtle imperfections Like
to me, that's precious. That's what it means to be human.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
And yeah, I don't disagree. I really don't disagree, and
of course I agree. I don't disagree, and I do agree,
but there is like a there is a nay saying
part of me, Like there is an argument that I
hear in my own head about like when was the
last time you heard an unprocessed, irregular vocal?

Speaker 4 (50:22):
Right?

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah, no, really, I mean that it would honestly be
like hearing a family member seeing live.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Well, that's I think live is is a different thing.
And but you know, also like I remember when people
thought hip hop wasn't music right because of course, and
it's so culturally relevant and important and deep and I'm
a DJ. I remember, you know, people complaining about ed M,
which I think is maybe some of the most spiritual

(50:51):
music that I've ever heard, truly. So there's like a
there's like a nagging voice in me that feels like
if it were if we weren't scared of this, if
we weren't scared of like what that means the meaning
of AI. Let me speak for myself, if I wasn't
scared of what the meaning of AI is for the
world and myself and our connection. Like what could be

(51:12):
the coolest, weirdest outcome is that AI making music that's
totally otherworldly the way that like turntablism and scratching felt
like it was otherworldly when it first came out. And
are the parties listening to this music people or are
they other machines?

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Right?

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Wow, Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
We're certainly in an interesting time.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
So yeah, I don't know. I don't know about that one.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
So we know that our hormone levels changed throughout the day.
Cortisolt levels are highest in the morning and then they
drop in the evening. And so I'm curious if you
have any thoughts around listening to different music at different
times of the day and if you've noticed anything around
that in terms of helping someone self regulate.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yes, I love this question. I think it's really important
to start your day with the feeling you want to have,
Like how do I want to not like a to
do list, but like a to be to feel list?
And I think music is the way to do that.
I don't have like a one size fits all answer,
but I have a I have several songs that I
use when I need them. So, like, do you know

(52:22):
the song Stump by the Brothers Johnson as produced by
Quincy Jones, Yes, you do. It goes like this, We're
gonna stomp all night in the neighborhood. Don't feel all right?
We're gonna stuff yeah down a party till the morning.
That's been like my wake up song on my phone
for since my daughter started going to school, because I

(52:43):
have to get up at six fifty and it's brutal,
and I'm like, you know, it's DJing party TI two
o'clock in the morning. Got to get at six fifty.
How am I going to get up out of bed?
And I wake up and that song has a really
hot start. It goes h boo boom, boom boom with
the horns, and so it's like, I get out of
bed like I'm going out to night life party in
the seventies. I think that's a seventies record, you know

(53:04):
what I mean. Like, I'm like me and Quincy are
like gonna roll down to the strip and go party tonight.
So I think you can use music to feel how
you want to and need to feel at different moments
in your day. Like dinner music as a concept is
always cocktail music. Dinner music, It's always very chill but
a little sexy. It's like things are just getting started,
but it's not nighttime, you know what I mean. I

(53:26):
don't know if this is really answering your question because
you asked me a clinical question and I gave you
a DJ answer.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
That I actually love the DJ answers. I think medicine
needs more DJ dancwers.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
I feel that.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Yeah. No, I mean I think music is so healing.
I remember the first time I did an ecstatic dance.
This is many years ago, and it was like a meditation.
It was like a three hour prayer, and I felt
like I really released just stuff, you know, yes, energetic debris,

(54:03):
energetic garbage, whatever you want to call it. I walked
away lighter, and I'm not talking about burning calories. Yeah,
I'm talking about like psychological burdens eliminated, which yes, very unexpected,
but also so so pleasant.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
I so feel you. So I do it with pop
records and things like I went and saw Lady Gaga
twice last month, and I felt the same way I
felt that I released, you know a lot, because that
music's I'm very into Lady Gaga and her music's very
powerful for me. There's certain songs that really, you know,
pull certain things from me. And I had amazing tickets
and I sat very close. And there's a section of

(54:39):
the show where she sits at the end of like
the runway, and she plays piano, which is her most
powerful thing that she does, and she plays piano and
she sings with that voice and she is healing. You know,
a lot of lgbt QIA folks right who come to
this show that's really their space. And I feel like
a visitor, even though I love Gaga and the same
way I did at Basement Bongra, Like this is not

(55:00):
necessarily for me my space, but I'm a visitor and
I honor this. And in those moments, like I cried
and I danced and I let go of the things
that I connect to those songs. I left them there
in that energetic space, just as all these other people had.
It's like we left our pain so that we could

(55:21):
go into the world and survive another day. That's what
I think is the most magical thing about the dance floor.
And I've seen people do that. I've seen people like
leave it on the dance floor. That's a really beautiful thing.
It's a holy church temple experience, and so I'm trying
to put some structure to that so that it doesn't

(55:44):
just happen if you got lucky that day.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Hester Thank you so much for joining us. For our listeners,
you can find DJ has to Print exploring the healing
power of music on the podcast Music is Therapy.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Thank you so much. Was a pleasure.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Thank you so much for having me. You guys are awesome.
I love the show.

Speaker 4 (56:06):
Well that was cool.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Yeah, Heston was really really cool to talk to. And
I just really love the blending of the music with
the medicine.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
Yes, yes, it's so smart. I mean it's rare to
have somebody who's an expert in two seemingly disparate fields,
but who has found a way to connect them into
this one incredible thing, and so the work she's.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
Doing is really great.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
And yeah, it was also nice to talk about Weezer
and the Pixies briefly.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. We need to squeeze that in every
chance we get, right, yep. Listening to the work that
she does and the way I incorporate music, for example
in my work, like with the Kenemine sessions, it helps
reinspire me about the importance of how therapeutic music can be,

(56:57):
whether you use it in a clinical setting or just
out and about listening to music. It's so healing and man, yeah,
I just I'm gonna probably like after we say goodbye
like here, I'll probably like put on some good music
and like dance around.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
Health Stuff is a production of iHeart Podcasts. The show
is hosted by me Haricin Debolu and doctor Prianco Wally.
Producers are Rebecca Eisenberg, Jenna Cagel, Christina Loranger, Maya Howard,
and Katrina Norville. Our researcher is Maria Tremarki and our
intern is Katia is obode Ayala. To send us a question,
you can email us a voicemail at health Stuff podcast

(57:40):
at gmail dot com.

Speaker 4 (57:42):
Thank you for listening,