July 21, 2026 • 37 mins
Maybe you've seen someone wearing a glowing red LED mask on social media. Or an ad promising smoother skin, thicker hair, less pain, and faster recovery – all from a few minutes under a red light. But how much of that is backed by science?
In this episode of Health vs. Hype, Trace Dominguez shines a light on one of the internet's biggest wellness trends: red light therapy. Joined by dermatologist Dr. Margareta Masse, he explores how photobiomodulation works, why different wavelengths matter, and which claims have real evidence behind them. Along the way, influencer Sly Huncho, skincare creator Rosa Hoffman, and melanoma survivor Mika Stambaugh share their personal experiences using red light therapy for everything from acne and wrinkles to wound healing and inflammation.
So, can red light therapy actually boost collagen? Does it help acne, scars, or hair loss? And are those expensive at-home masks worth the money? Tune in as we separate science from social media and find out whether red light therapy is all health... or just hype.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Ruby. Red light therapy is more than just skincare to me,
It's part of my healthcare. It's a healthcare stack.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And then I started seeing the mask and stuff was like,
he got red light blue light, and then you can
do both at the same time.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
So I was like, oh, it's not red light therapy
every day.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
It's just going to really help with all those dark spots,
aging spots.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
I feel like it's hard to live in the same
age and not have heard about red light therapy.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
Maybe the glow of a red light therapy mask caught
your eye while scrolling social media, or you saw a
targeted ad for a red light helmet promising to reverse
hair loss using light to influence the body's biology, a
practice known as photo biomodulation, has become one of the
fastest growing trends in health and wellness. Today, you'll find
(00:50):
red light therapy everywhere, from medical clinics to gyms to
at home devices, promising professional grade results. Some like content
creator Hoffman, say it smooths wrinkles, fades acne, eases joint pain,
and reduces inflammation.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
When I'm not using red light therapy, the first thing
I notice is my hands. My hands start to feel
that inflammation right away, and I will immediately go and
sit in front of my red light.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
Therapy and online influencers like sly Huncho were drawn in
by the made for TikTok glow and promises of this
latest self help tool.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I definitely love the mass. I've just seen it on
social media. I'm like, what is the benefit that is?
Because I'm really a self cared type of guy, so
I'm like anything that helps, I'm gonna try it.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
Others like Micah Stanbaugh, who was diagnosed with melanoma and
had multiple facial surgeries to remove the skin cancer, claim
it boosts collagen and speeds wound healing.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
All I really cared about was minimizing what my face
was going to look like post surgeries.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I would pretty much try.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Anything that anyone with any dermatology background has to offer,
I would do it.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Thankfully, we have someone with a dermatology background to set
the record straight about red light therapy, doctor Margaretta Massey,
whose areas of specialty include general dermatology, cosmetics, and surgical dermatology.
She brings the.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Evidence there are some cool studies that actually take people
and expose half of their face to red light and
then don't do anything to the other half of the face.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
Welcome back to Health versus Hype with the American Medical Association.
I'm your host, Trace Domingez. Red light therapy has gone
from dermatology offices to at home masks, helmets and panels
that promise professional results from your living room. But how
much of that is actually backed by science and where
does the evidence stop and the internet hype begin. On
(02:42):
this episode of Health Versus Hype, we're bringing the facts
about red light therapy into the spotlight. Join me as
we find out whether red light therapy is all health
or just hype. Okay, before we get too far ahead
(03:06):
of ourselves, let's first understand what red light is in
this context, or for that matter, what light is. No
big deal, not a huge subject at all. Simply put,
light is a form of energy. Different types of light
have different wavelengths, which is the physical distance between the
peak of one light wave and the peak of the next.
This is important here because the wavelength of light determines
(03:29):
its color. We can see some light like the colors
of the rainbow, visible light, while other types like ultraviolet
and infrared are not visible to the human eye. In fact,
red light sits just on the border of the spectrum
of visible to invisible light, and just beyond those red
wavelengths you'd find infrared light. Keeping this basic science lesson
(03:51):
in mind, red light therapy uses specific wavelengths of red
and near infrared light that researchers believe can enter with ourselves.
Some of those researchers are from places like NASA. Red
light therapy has its roots in space research. NASA first
studied how specific wavelengths of light could help plants grow
(04:12):
during space missions, and then explored whether the same technology
could promote wound healing and astronauts. And that's just the
beginning of how red light therapy made the leap to
skincare and the wider health and wellness communities. We've seen
over and over in the wellness community a willingness to
try something, especially if that something doesn't seem to carry
too many risks. So I was curious how our guests
(04:35):
first found out about the red light therapy. Here's sly hunchho.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So the first time that I tried it was in
La I went to like this luxury spot and it
had like different red light therapy. I believe in asana
and it was like this a little roller thing that
you can like sit on and it like massage your
body and stuff like that. So that was when I
was first introduced to it, and then I started seeing
it more and more on social media, so I started
doing more research and stuff looking at up the benefits
(05:00):
of it, just because first off, they caught me attention.
If you put it in videos, it's gonna catch peop's attention.
I'm like, what is This was the benefits, and then
I started seeing the mask and stuff, so I was like,
h let me try this and issue it really helped
me detox and really recharged. It's a good way for
me to just like vibe out.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Rosa Hoffman had some reservations before trying red light therapy
because not all commercial devices are created equally.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I had seen some articles and some news about companies
that were creating these red light masks that were not
actual red light bulbs. They were made with just these
random led bulbs that had no red light or near infrared,
and they were actually causing more damage. And so that's
why it becomes so important where you buy your red light.
(05:51):
So I was a bit hesitant only because I wanted
to make sure I was getting red light. I wanted
to make sure that I wasn't just buying something that
was is not going to actually give me benefits. You know.
I didn't want anything that was just like surface level
and wasn't penetrating. But did I have any reservations on
am I going to turn into a lizard person in
(06:11):
twelve years from now?
Speaker 5 (06:13):
No?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I wasn't really quite worried about that.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Okay, I want to jump right into the science behind
red light therapy, and our expert today again is doctor
Margareta Massy and in addition to practicing dermatology, she is
also the medical director of Dermatology in the Manhattan Division
of north Well Health in New York City. Doctor Massey,
thanks for joining us. Can you start by telling us
what exactly red light therapy is.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
So people say a red light, usually that means either
red light, which is six hundred and thirty to seven
hundred nanimeters and that's very, very superficial that just penetrates
the top layers of skin. And then there's infrared light,
which is a little bit different, but people still use
it when they talk about red light, and that goes
a little bit deeper, and that's when you think about
the joint and the muscle benefits, and sometimes even like
nervous system benefits, people are talking about a little bit different.
(07:00):
And then I think one also feature that is important
to note about red light therapy is it something we
call low level, and that means that it's not at
the high level of energy that we use in some
of these lasers, but it's low level, and so there's
less heat produced and there's less kind of risk, So
there is a better safety profile because of that.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
What is it doing to the skin? What's it doing
to our biology? You know, because it seems to me
if I shine a red light on myself, I don't
understand how it would do anything.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Absolutely, this is kind of like where the geek and
me comes out. I'm so excited about the science behind it.
So red light will shine on your cells. And if
we think back to like our high school classes, everybody
learned about the powerhouse of the cell, the mitochondre y,
yeah you remember that.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Oh yeah, definitely, somebody's got a reverb that the powerhouse
of the cell, Like you just have to it's great.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
So that's the mitochondria for you, and the red light
shines on the cell, it gets mostly targets this mitochondria,
and then mitochondri produces energy. The energy currency overs something
we call ATP, and so that energy allows us cell
to kind of go through its cell processes a little
bit more efficiently and effectively.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
Okay, So ATP is a denazine triphosphate and it's the
primary energy carrying molecule used by all of our living
cells to power all the basic biological functions.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Right, So kind of getting down to the nitty gritty
and especially how it helps with all these anti inflammatory
and skin processes. It does a few things. It kind
of suppresses the pro inflammatory cascade in our cells, so
less inflammation, releases something called nitric oxide, and that helps
dilate our blood vessels, so that means more growth factors,
more nutrients kind of coming to where we want them
(08:40):
to be. And then it can also help turn on
some genes to help stimulate fibroblasts, which are the cells
in our body that help make collagen and elastin. And
so that's where a lot of that anti aging kind
of hype comes from.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
WHOA, that's really interesting. So the skin benefits seem like
they could be any number of things. If it's opening
blood vessels, if it's promoting like some of these collagen things.
Are these supported by scientific evidence as well? I mean,
we've got this long history of science in this area.
Are all of these things supported? Should I be doing this?
Speaker 4 (09:10):
That's a good question. So you know, you have the
basic science which we've kind of talked about, but then
you also have clinical science and we can go into
kind of each indication. But I think one of the
things about red light therapy in general is that you know, yes,
we can apply it to all of these or at
least we think we can apply the benefits to all
of these different facets. But the truth is, we really
really have to look at each specific indication, and there
(09:32):
has to be some kind of good study about each
indication if we want to truly answer that question.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
Okay, doctor Massey, I wanted to get into some of
those specific indications for red light therapy and the evidence
that we currently have, But let's first talk about a
different kind of light, ultraviolet light or UV. That's the
light that the sun gives off. It can damage our skin.
Too much exposure can cause sunburns and speed up signs
of aging like wrinkles and age spots and increase your
(09:58):
risk of skin cancer. And that is what happened to
our guest Micah. So, doctor Massey, I'm going to play
you a clip of some of my interview with Micah
and get your thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
After I have been an avid sun worshiper of my
whole life, I never thought about getting skin cancer since
my melanoma diagnosis. It ended up being nine days of
having the size of a silver dollar cut out of
my right cheek and it took about seventy stitches to
(10:28):
close up. I have a scar on my cheek that
will most likely be there forever and all for a
very silly reason, you know, all because I was a
little misbehaved in the sun. My aesthetician told me about
red light, and she said it will also help your scar,
and it will help with just kind of building collagen
and fine lines and wrinkles and all the things that
(10:50):
you normally care about. The reason that I am more
intently focused on red light than most people, or what
I would have been if I wasn't diagnosed with melanoma,
is because I have a giant scar in my face.
I don't want them to be there forever, So I'm
going to try this.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
So, doctor Massey, do you think that red light therapy
is going to help with Micah's scarring?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
You know what, I really wish I could see her scar,
because we tailor our approaches to scar treatment so much
based on the type of scar, what it looks like,
how long it's been there. She did say that she
has these giant scars. It's going to help a little bit,
hopefully with kind of a commitment to doing this routinely
and regularly. But I hope she's being a little bit
more than that too.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Okay, let's keep going with some of the claims from
our guests. Here's Rosa Hoffman, a content creator who posts
regularly about red light therapy.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
You can have some serums like actually, red light and
green tea are known to work really well together. So
if you have a green tea serum, or even if
you just take a green tea and put in a
spray ball, it'll spray that on your body. That will
also help.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
So green tea does that help enhance any of the
red light therapy benefits? Is there evidence there?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
You know, I hate to say it, but I think
this is probably one of those instances. That's a little
bit more getting ahead of ourselves than like anything to
truly back it up. So what I think she's referring
to is a study from two thousand and nine, but
studying quotation marks, because I don't think you can actually
call it a study. They basically took one patient and
published a before and after photo, and there have been
no study since two thousand and nine. And so you know,
(12:21):
we know that green tea can have its own benefits.
It's an powerfully antioxidant. It actually restricts blood flow, so
good thing for things like redness, good for things like
puffy underize. But to say that together somehow they magnify
or amplify each other as effect, I just don't think
that there's any data behind that. So maybe you can
use them separately, you can use them together, but each
(12:42):
just I think has some benefit, but not something that
has to be coupled together.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Right, So it's not necessarily one's going to enhance the
work of the other one. That makes total sense. Okay,
let's play our next clip from ROSA.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I actually bought a red light device for my gums.
I had gone to the dentist this one year, like
way too many times my gums were really inflamed. All
the research I had done was really around how good
it is for inflammation. So when I bought it and
I tried it within and I am not exaggerating, it
was a very short time. I want to say a
few weeks, my gums were almost healed, to the point
(13:18):
that when I saw my dentist he was like, what
did you do. I'm like, this is what I use.
I use this device. He's like, Okay, keep doing it
because it worked. So at that point I was super
bought in that it does help with inflammation if you're
consistent and you're doing it.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
So what do you think of that clip? Does this
help with inflammation?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
So inflammation specifically, it's just hard to target because we
want to talk about true indications rather than broad inflammation.
And just because we see anti inflammatory signals on on
a molecular level, it doesn't necessarily mean that we'll translate
into kind of a clinical finding. But in her case,
I actually think that there's probably some truth to it.
And the reason I say that is because one of
(13:57):
the best studied indications red light therapy. We put a
lot of research into patients who are undergoing treatments for
cancer or cancer patients. There's just a lot of funding
for that, a lot of interest in that. And so
we know that one of the biggest benefits of red
light therapy that has been documented is for something called mucositis,
which is severe inflammation of the mucosal lining of kind
(14:18):
of your GI tract mouth included. And so a lot
of these kind of world known cancer centers will actually
have red light treatments for people who have really inflamed
mouths oral mucacitis, just to help them deal with some
of the side effects of chemotherapy. So I do actually
believe that there is probably a role for that. Most
people don't use it for oral inflammation, but the data
(14:40):
points to the fact that it probably does work.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Wow, that's amazing. So let's go back for a second
and talk about the evidence for inflammation and how this
can help with inflammation if it does.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
So, when we as dermatologists or physicians in general talk
about inflammation, we can mean twenty or thirty different different things,
different past ways. Just generally speaking, Yes, it's been shown
that when cells are exposed to red light therapy they
produce less of these prone inflammatory signals and more anti
inflammatory signals. But you have to think about, well, what
does that mean clinically? Does that make any sort of difference?
(15:15):
And I always say, just because there's a little bit
of an extra protein in a cell, that doesn't necessarily
translate into it being a cure for sorvisis or arthritis
or any of these inflammatory conditions. And so I think
it just once again we have to focus more specifically
on understanding studies for each specific indication rather than for
something like inflammation broadly.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Yeah, that makes sense. We got another clip here, Let's
listen to it, doctor Massey and see how this goes.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
No matter what I did, lasers, creams, everything, the malasma
kind of kept coming back. And so eventually I did
have a laser that really did help to clear out
a good chunk of that malasma. But it was definitely
the red light therapy that helped keep that inflammation down,
because historically speaking, my milasma always came back even in
(16:01):
the summer, the moment I'm in the warmth, or if
I have a blow dryer on my hair, that heat
would always activate it. And so because I've been so
consistent with the red light using my masks, doing my panels,
I'm not seeing the malasma come back.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
So firstly, let's define what malasma is for the people
that don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Malasma is a scuncondition where you get these patchy hyperpigmentation,
typically on your cheeks or sun exposed areas, and notoriously
very difficult to treat.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Yeah, and so do you think this is something where
red light therapy could help treat or get rid of
this malasma?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
You know, I do find that really hard to believe.
Like I said, malasma is so hard to treat, and
there's just absolutely no evidence that this is better than
any kind of classic or gold standard treatment. So if
you're suffering from malasma, I would one hundred percent all day,
every day, I recommend seeing a dermatologist talking about your topical, oral,
and laser treatment options. Yeah. I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Yeah, Okay, let's play our next clip from ROSA.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I always see like a glowier, plumpier skin when I
do red light. I've been doing it for so long
that I actually have to look back at photos from
before using red light, and you look different. I feel
more more vibrant, I just feel more plumpy. My skin
looks more alive where I feel like it was duller
(17:19):
in the past.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
This is something you hear a lot, right people look
at pictures themselves or they feel their their faces has
changed in some ways. How strong is the evidence behind
this kind of claim that the skin has got more
collagen production. It looks plumpy, it looks nice.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Yeah, you know, if we look at the studies, you
definitely see some benefit. So we talked about how it
can turn on these genes and yourself, which is pretty cool.
It really turns on genes that make more collagen, that
stimulate these fibroblasts to make more collagen. Then you look
at clinical studies, and we talked a little bit about
it before, but they'll literally clinical studies they can use
like an ultrasound, for example, to measure the density of
(17:55):
your collagen, and then this profilometry where they literally go
and measure the depth of your wrinkles. That helps quantify
those changes in collagen. So we definitely have the data there.
What's harder to gauge is scientifically measure changes enough to
see like a clinical change when you're actually looking in
the mirror. There aren't a lot of studies on that,
and I will say just from seeing a lot of
patients on this, it kind of spans the gamut. So
(18:17):
you have patients who definitely feel the same way Rosa feels,
where there's definitely a difference, and then you have patients
who are kind of upset and say, you know, I've
been using this for so long and I see no difference.
And so the truth is there is a difference on
a microscopic level, but not everybody will feel that there's
a clinical difference as well.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
So Rosa's experience with her skin that could be from
red light therapy, it could be from some other part
of her routine. It's hard to say without a lot
more research.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, exactly. And you know, I do think that there
is a benefit, for sure, but it also might be
not only because of the red light. We don't know
what else she's using. I'm not saying that there isn't
a benefit there for sure is.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
Yeah, here's another clip from Rosa.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
And red light therapy is more than just skincare to me,
it's part of my healthcare. It's a healthcare stack. So
it's about my inflammation, it's about my muscle recovery, it's
about relaxing my nervous system that's so important to me too,
and it also does help with my skincare. So I
feel like red light just does a bit more because
(19:21):
it's hitting more issues than just a skincare device. Like
red light is always a stacked protocol in my wellness journey.
So whether I'm working out on a vibration plate, my
red light is on, I could be sitting in my sauna,
my red light is on. I could be giving myself
a little laser and my red light is on, so
(19:43):
I can stack that. And that's also the part about
red light that's great is you can use red light
in any scenario.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
So, doctor Massey, what is your reaction to that.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
I think we need to bring in like a physiatrist
and neurologist to get to the bottom of some of
those claims. You know, in all seriousness, I think there
is some evolving, promising data in those feel does well
and it's really pretty neat to think about, like there's
this one treatment modality that can kind of help all
of these things. I guess my reaction is, I do
imagine that ROSA is using different wavelengths and hopefully different
(20:15):
machines to target these different concerns, because I don't want
anybody to leave this podcast thinking that, you know, your
standard red light mask is going to have any effect
on your nervous system or your joint inflammation because it
does not penetrate anywhere near to those steps. You're really
looking at the infrared wavelength in that sense.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
Yeah, that makes sense, and I think that's something that
people want it to do necessarily, right, We're looking for
those benefits. Whether the science supports it, have to wait
and see when they do more research. We have another
clip from Sly Hunt shows a barber has a huge
online following and he talks about red light therapy as well.
And he's talking about his mask here and it has
different colors of light, not just red.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
So I clicked the button, but it changed colors and
I'm like, hmm, yeah, I clicked it again and changed
the colors and then I like that. To many, it
was like he got red light blue light, and then
you can do both at the same time. So I
was like, oh, it's notat I like to turn both
of them because one of them is for rigals and
then the other ones for like blemishes.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
I'm glad that he brought this up. Because I was
curious about this too. Our little mask that we got
to explore this has like purple and has blue and
does all sorts of I look like fireworks and I'm
wearing it, So what what are the differences? Are their
differences and how do they work?
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Yeah, I really like that some masks are incorporating both
red light and blue light. Blue light has a much
shorter wavelength and even more superficial, incredibly superficial and how
and how it penetrates. So it really just targets your epidermis,
that top topmost layer of skin, and it targets something different.
It doesn't target the mitochondria, targets poor friends, and those
are molecules that are made by the bzier that cause
(21:46):
acne on our skin. And so when blue light hits
those poor friends, it makes something called reactive oxygen species,
and those are toxic to the bacteria on our skin.
And so there's less bacteria than there's less acne. And
so blue light is predominantly whereas you have a lot
of indications for red light. Light is predominantly right now
being used for acne specific treatment. And so because they
(22:06):
work differently when you combine them for something like acne,
you're probably going to get better results.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
That's fascinating. So red light penetrates a little bit deeper.
Blue light stays a little bit more surface level, and
it's mostly used for.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Acne, right, So red lights, I don't want anybody getting
the idea that red light, true red light six thirty
to seven hundred animeters really penetrates deeply, but yes, deeper
than deeper than blue light, and so they're working a
little bit differently.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Does red light also help with acne?
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Absolutely can help with acne. There have been, i think
at this point, so many studies. They are smaller studies,
and so you can't kind of draw as much of
a conclusion from smaller studies than you can have in
studies that are looking at hundreds or thousands of people.
And there are some really cool studies that actually take
people and expose half of their face to red light
and then don't do anything to that other're half of
(22:53):
the face, and that's the best comparison because it's the
same person that they're looking at, and kind of across
the board, all of those studies show that there's less
of an acne bump count lesion count when you compare
it to the side of the face that's been exposed
versus that hasn't been exposed, So that's pretty cool. You
can't really argue with that. But then you know, it
does become a question of we can see the bumps,
but how do patients perceive that? And luckily, in the
(23:15):
sense of acne, most people will say, yes, I do
feel improvement since using my acne mask. But at the
same time, you know, it's not one hundred percent. It's
not the same results that people typically get from medicine,
for example, but there's certainly a benefit and we can't
argue with that.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Got it. What about roseesia?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Roseesia I think less so to be honest, so there
just aren't as many studies first of all. But secondly,
I think when people think of roseesia, a lot of
people think of redness, and they assume that renness is
so hard to target, and were the first to admit
that as dermatologist, it's so hard to target, and so
you're not really doing anything that is targeting that specific
concern with the red light. So maybe you'll get a
(23:54):
few of the bumps from roseesia. Similarly, in it to acne,
that are decreased, but that primary concern that seems to
be run us for a lot of patients that typically
probably isn't going to be really effective.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Yeah, when you say it's hard to target, you mean
it's hard to find out exactly what might be causing
it for that person. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 4 (24:12):
No, I guess more so, I mean, and we know
that it's dilation of blood vessels, and here what the
mask we're saying, Actually it can dilat blood vessels even
more so, that doesn't you know, that's not really helpful
here for something like that, you really do need a
true laser that can target those blood vessels a little
bit more effectively. The mechanism just doesn't align.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Yeah, and so what about exzema or other inflammatory kind
of problems.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Yeah, you know, with exema, I don't think that there
are a lot of great studies. They have very few
patients and they just don't have great quality behind them.
To be fair, though, that is probably because we have
so many other tools in our toolbox as dermatologists that
work so much better for exzema that I don't think
that that's getting investigated, probably as some of the other indications,
(24:55):
but from the few studies that are out there, you know,
they tend to be less impressive and kind of the
acne studies.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
So a lot of influencers suggest that red light therapy
can improve wrinkles, can improve hair growth. Let's talk through
some of these and see which ones have some science
to support it. So first, the one you hear about
a lot, the one that I've thought about getting one
for is wrinkles, and I'm in my forties now starting
to think about it. Does it help for that?
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Yeah, well, you know, we definitely have evidence that it does.
So once again, we always want to talk think about
the basic science, does it mechanistically make sense? And then
we also want to talk about the clinical evidence, like
are people actually seeing a difference. So we mentioned fibroblasts before,
these cells that produce collagen and elastin. So it's really
cool because red light therapy has actually been shown to
turn on specific genes that kind of increase the production
(25:41):
of these fibroblasts and thereby production of collagen. And so
that's kind of what's responsible for making our skin look plump, smooth, youthful.
If you think about it. Clinically, a wrinkle improvement can
be very hard to measure. I mean, if you go
to somebody and say, well, did you do you find
that you improved your skin texture, your wrinkles improved, people
are like, I don't know, you tell me. It's very hard.
(26:03):
So some of these studies, and once again there's such
small studies, but they have used really nifty tools such
as profilometry where they have found a difference, or alostometry
where they can go and measure the amount of elastin.
And so these small, understandably small studies they do seem
to show that there is true benefit.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Yeah cool, I just picture them like stretching my face, like, yeah,
this seems stretchier than last time we were here. What
about for hair growth?
Speaker 4 (26:29):
That I would say has even stronger evidence behind it.
And that might just be because more studies have been
done more either for whatever reason, more funding or more
more interest, and you know, the people are researching these things.
We have really good data. But I just also want
to say we have really good data for specifically androgenetic alopecia,
which is a specific type of hair loss. So I
think a misconception is that it's great for all types
(26:50):
of hair loss, and we just don't have that data,
so we have data for androgenetic, which is female or
male pattern hair loss. It shifts your hair from the
kind of static phase or the shedding face to the
growth phase or what we call the anigen face, so
more hairs entering that growth phase and growing, and then
also dilates blood vessel, so you're just getting people often
do like scalp massage, which actually has some benefit too,
(27:12):
But the more nutrients and the more growth factors you
can get to the hair, the more helpful it will be.
And then clinically, when we kind of look under a microscope,
these studies pretty consistently have shown that there is one
more hair and too that the diameter of the hair
is actually greater. But what is interesting though, is that
also at the end, most of these studies will ask clinically,
we'll ask patients, well, did you see a difference. Typically
(27:34):
there is a difference, but it's much more modest than
the scientific differences. So what that means is that while
on a microscopic level we might be seeing really impressive differences,
those differences might not be kind of clinically as apparent.
Not everybody will see a difference in the mirror.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
Interesting, how often would somebody need to do this kind
of therapy? So is this something I would do every day?
Is it something I do every week?
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Most products will recommend doing good few times a week.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
A few times a week, okay, so it seems doable
for sure.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
One of the most important things that we're realizing with
red light therapy is the frequency at which people are
using it. So if you're more likely to be able
to be consistent with it at home because you can
do it at home and not have to go anywhere,
then it makes sense to do it at home because
you're going to have better results because of the consistency.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. The success of
red light therapy depends on how much time and how
often you can use it. Actually, Sly had something similar
to say about this.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Stay consistent just so you can actually see the results
that you won't because if you try it for one day,
it's going to be like, oh, it don't work. Or
if you try it for like a week, oh it
don't work. Of course it's not going to work in
seven days. You gotta do something one hundred times just
to see if it work. So try it a hundred times,
and then if it don't work or you don't see results,
then you can say it don't work. So my message
would be to stay consistent with whatever red light therapy
(28:51):
or mass that you use.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
This sounds like good advice to me, but it does
make me wonder about the risk of using red light therapy.
Is it something that's safe for everybody universally or are
there situations where people should avoid it.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
That's a great question. One of the things that we
love about it is it's great safety profile. So overall
it's very safe and the probably the most common side
effects we see or a little bit of temporary redness
or maybe a little bit of mild temporary skin pain.
But I do want to say that one population that
really should be a little bit more cautious about it
are skin of color patients, and we know that they
are at higher risk when using these masks, specifically of
(29:28):
redness that prosists permanent discoloration or even blistering, and that
doesn't happen often, but we do see it much more
often on a relative basis in that population. And so
I would say, if you are a skin of color,
I would recommend just starting out of lower power, starting
with lower shorter treatment times, and then kind of working
up as you can tolerate slowly.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
Yeah, to see how your skin reacts to it. That
term skin of color is commonly used in medical and
cosmetic circles to identify people who have naturally pigmented skin,
from olive skin tones to brown and black skin tones.
It's important to acknowledge that people with deeper skin tones
may have to modify their treatment exactly.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
And then one other question. I feel like it all
the time. Maybe it's because of my age group, but
people always want to know is it safe and pregnancy.
I feel like so many things are off limits and
pregnancy because we just don't want to take the risks. Unfortunately,
we don't have a lot of data behind it, and
I think most certain dermatologist myself included, because of that,
take a more conservative approach, better to hold off.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
We've talked about how it works, right, Let's kind of
pivot to what are some of the bigger misconceptions of
these I.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Feel like with all of these influencers now talking about
these rave reviews, I think for me, the biggest misconception
is that we've suddenly, all of a sudden stumbled upon
this magically guarded secret and now it's going to change
your life forever. And that is just, at the end
of the day, not true. You really have to understand
that these are meant to be an adjunct treatment to
other things that you're doing. So a little bit extreme,
(30:55):
but the example I always give is probably at least
a few times a month they'll have an actupatient come
into my and they'll say, you know, I don't wash
my face consistently twice a day every day, but should
I get this mask? I just want to say, well, please,
let's commit to washing your face first, like I promise
you that will give you better results than a red
light therapy mask. I think in this day and age,
we're just all hoping for like that quick health care hack.
(31:16):
You're going to get the best results if you're coupling
that with kind of a multifacet approach. So I always
try to frame it as it would be a good
adjunct therapy rather than a monotherapy. You can't compare it
directly to any of other products out there because it's
not meant to replace them. It's not meant to do
what those other products do. It's meant to work kind
of in tandem with them, you know, is their role
for it as somebody's broader skincare routine. Absolutely, it's incredibly convenient,
(31:38):
has a great safety profile. It would be silly kind
of not to utilize that. There are definitely some proven benefits.
But at the same time, it just shouldn't be the
only thing that you're doing.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
What should a consumer look for when they're evaluating one
of these devices.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
That's a great question because it certainly can seem like
the market is endless out there. Every company's trying to
jump on that on that bandwagon and sell their products,
and so for most I think you have to know
specifically what you want to target. All these indications have
different wavelengths, and so you want to find you one
that either works for acne, your skin rejuvenation, or something
not related to skin at all, and so you really
(32:12):
have to understand kind of what you're trying to solve
for past that you want to look at something called irradiance.
Irradiance we think is the measure of efficacy. So on
a box you'll see that listed as milliwats per centimeter squared.
That's how much power is actually reaching your skin. So
some of these products, we'll just have total led wottage
and that's not really going to give you much information.
(32:33):
So you really want to look at the specific irradians
and typically, generally speaking, higher I radiance means better efficacy.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
We're talking nanometers, we're talking millawatts, we're talking centimeters. That
might be a bit complicated sounding, but irradiance is the
amount of power the red light mask is shining on
each square centimeter of skin, right, more milliwatts of power,
maybe the mask is working a bit.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Better exactly past that. I would say, you know, I
know this sounds silly, but reviews reviews, reviews, So you
want something that a lot of people have used, that
have people have had good results from, and that are
very transparent about all of their specifications. Also bonus points
of something's FDA cleared, because that means it's you know,
it's been around for a little bit of time and
has had a little bit more of investigation into it.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Yeah, most people are reading the reviews of these and
they're seeing like, Okay, well this worked for me, This
worked for me. I mean you mentioned a very specific
set of wavelengths. Is there like reddish light that's outside
of that that someone might still buy a mask and
that's why it's not working. I don't know. It's kind
of a strange question, but I.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Think you know, for a lot of and this is
I guess where dermatologists come in. But for a lot
of these indications, even in that broader wavelength category, there
have been protocols that have been described that narrow down
on well, this is maybe the better wavelength for this
specific condition, and so that's where your dermatologists can come
in to be a little bit more helpful. Yeah, because
it's not just this whole spectrum of light.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
So, doctor Massey, as a dermatoil, where would you rank
red light therapy among all the different kind of interventions
that are available in anti aging and skin health? Where
would you put it?
Speaker 4 (34:10):
This might come as a surprise because I feel like
we've talked about how there are so many studies that
have shown benefits and it's convenient and it's wonderful in
so many ways. But at the same time, I do
still think that it kind of ranks on the lower
end for me. There are just a lot of other
modalities that have much stronger data behind them. So if
we're talking about the very basics, Like any day, every day,
(34:31):
I will always recommend sunscreen, a good moisturizer, and a
retinoid over red light therapy. So I feel like, if
you're not doing that, there's kind of no point in
even talking about a red light mask. You think about, well,
after that, what gives me the most drastic results, And
so I'm much more likely in patients who have specific concerns,
who have cosmetic concerns or just want their skins to
feel better, I'm much more likely to reach for things
(34:52):
like micro needling or chemical appeals, neurotoxins, or resurfacing lasers.
But that doesn't mean that there isn't a place on
the market for these. It just means that even though
there is some data, we still have other tools that
just have so much better data for them right now. Yeah,
but at the same time, I will say, you know,
you also walk down the pharmacy and see like piles
(35:14):
and piles of over the counter creams that probably have
zero data behind them, So it definitely rigs above any
of those.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
You know what, That's actually very clear. I think on
some level that makes me feel better because at first
I thought, oh, I should get one of these and
I'm like, but I'm not really doing a lot of
these other attempts, which I think is important. Red light
therapy isn't the miracle cure you might see on social media,
but it's not just hype either. For some conditions, particularly
(35:41):
certain skin disorders, there's promising evidence that red light therapy
can help when it's used correctly. For many of the
broader claims about pain, recovery, and overall wellness, the science
is still catching up. As with so many health trends,
the biggest takeaway isn't whether red light therapy works, it's
what it works, four, who it works for, and how
(36:02):
much of the internet's enthusiasm is actually supported by research.
So if you're thinking about adding red light therapy to
your routine, make sure to keep chasing the evidence, not
just the glow, and don't forget to check in with
your physician before making changes to your healthcare routine. Have
we shown you the light? Be sure to let us
know down in the comments. Thanks again to doctor Margaretta
(36:24):
Massey for sharing her expertise with us, and thanks to
Sly Hunt Show, Rosa Hoffman, and Micah Stanbaugh for sharing
their stories and experiences with us too. We did it again.
That makes eight online health and wellness trends that we
got to the bottom of. Don't worry, though, we still
have many more trends to cover when Health Versus hyperturns
for another season, So subscribe or follow now if you
(36:46):
haven't already, and join us next time on Health Versus
Hype with the American Medical Association. For more information on
all the topics we're covering, visit AMA Health Versus Hype
dot org. That's AMA Health vs. Hype dot com. Health
Versus Hype is a production of Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia
and the American Medical Association. I'm traced to him Guez.
(37:07):
Our producers are Matt Stillo and Pamela Lawrence. Michael Depoe
Wilson is our writer. The show is engineered and features
original music by Matthew Ernest Filler. Health Versus Hype is
intended for educational and informational purposes only and does not
constitute medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice
of your physician with any questions you may have regarding
(37:28):
a medical condition.
Ruby. Red light therapy is more than just skincare to me,
It's part of my healthcare. It's a healthcare stack.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And then I started seeing the mask and stuff was like,
he got red light blue light, and then you can
do both at the same time.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
So I was like, oh, it's not red light therapy
every day.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
It's just going to really help with all those dark spots,
aging spots.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
I feel like it's hard to live in the same
age and not have heard about red light therapy.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
Maybe the glow of a red light therapy mask caught
your eye while scrolling social media, or you saw a
targeted ad for a red light helmet promising to reverse
hair loss using light to influence the body's biology, a
practice known as photo biomodulation, has become one of the
fastest growing trends in health and wellness. Today, you'll find
(00:50):
red light therapy everywhere, from medical clinics to gyms to
at home devices, promising professional grade results. Some like content
creator Hoffman, say it smooths wrinkles, fades acne, eases joint pain,
and reduces inflammation.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
When I'm not using red light therapy, the first thing
I notice is my hands. My hands start to feel
that inflammation right away, and I will immediately go and
sit in front of my red light.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
Therapy and online influencers like sly Huncho were drawn in
by the made for TikTok glow and promises of this
latest self help tool.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I definitely love the mass. I've just seen it on
social media. I'm like, what is the benefit that is?
Because I'm really a self cared type of guy, so
I'm like anything that helps, I'm gonna try it.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
Others like Micah Stanbaugh, who was diagnosed with melanoma and
had multiple facial surgeries to remove the skin cancer, claim
it boosts collagen and speeds wound healing.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
All I really cared about was minimizing what my face
was going to look like post surgeries.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I would pretty much try.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Anything that anyone with any dermatology background has to offer,
I would do it.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Thankfully, we have someone with a dermatology background to set
the record straight about red light therapy, doctor Margaretta Massey,
whose areas of specialty include general dermatology, cosmetics, and surgical dermatology.
She brings the.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Evidence there are some cool studies that actually take people
and expose half of their face to red light and
then don't do anything to the other half of the face.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
Welcome back to Health versus Hype with the American Medical Association.
I'm your host, Trace Domingez. Red light therapy has gone
from dermatology offices to at home masks, helmets and panels
that promise professional results from your living room. But how
much of that is actually backed by science and where
does the evidence stop and the internet hype begin. On
(02:42):
this episode of Health Versus Hype, we're bringing the facts
about red light therapy into the spotlight. Join me as
we find out whether red light therapy is all health
or just hype. Okay, before we get too far ahead
(03:06):
of ourselves, let's first understand what red light is in
this context, or for that matter, what light is. No
big deal, not a huge subject at all. Simply put,
light is a form of energy. Different types of light
have different wavelengths, which is the physical distance between the
peak of one light wave and the peak of the next.
This is important here because the wavelength of light determines
(03:29):
its color. We can see some light like the colors
of the rainbow, visible light, while other types like ultraviolet
and infrared are not visible to the human eye. In fact,
red light sits just on the border of the spectrum
of visible to invisible light, and just beyond those red
wavelengths you'd find infrared light. Keeping this basic science lesson
(03:51):
in mind, red light therapy uses specific wavelengths of red
and near infrared light that researchers believe can enter with ourselves.
Some of those researchers are from places like NASA. Red
light therapy has its roots in space research. NASA first
studied how specific wavelengths of light could help plants grow
(04:12):
during space missions, and then explored whether the same technology
could promote wound healing and astronauts. And that's just the
beginning of how red light therapy made the leap to
skincare and the wider health and wellness communities. We've seen
over and over in the wellness community a willingness to
try something, especially if that something doesn't seem to carry
too many risks. So I was curious how our guests
(04:35):
first found out about the red light therapy. Here's sly hunchho.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So the first time that I tried it was in
La I went to like this luxury spot and it
had like different red light therapy. I believe in asana
and it was like this a little roller thing that
you can like sit on and it like massage your
body and stuff like that. So that was when I
was first introduced to it, and then I started seeing
it more and more on social media, so I started
doing more research and stuff looking at up the benefits
(05:00):
of it, just because first off, they caught me attention.
If you put it in videos, it's gonna catch peop's attention.
I'm like, what is This was the benefits, and then
I started seeing the mask and stuff, so I was like,
h let me try this and issue it really helped
me detox and really recharged. It's a good way for
me to just like vibe out.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Rosa Hoffman had some reservations before trying red light therapy
because not all commercial devices are created equally.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I had seen some articles and some news about companies
that were creating these red light masks that were not
actual red light bulbs. They were made with just these
random led bulbs that had no red light or near infrared,
and they were actually causing more damage. And so that's
why it becomes so important where you buy your red light.
(05:51):
So I was a bit hesitant only because I wanted
to make sure I was getting red light. I wanted
to make sure that I wasn't just buying something that
was is not going to actually give me benefits. You know.
I didn't want anything that was just like surface level
and wasn't penetrating. But did I have any reservations on
am I going to turn into a lizard person in
(06:11):
twelve years from now?
Speaker 5 (06:13):
No?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I wasn't really quite worried about that.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Okay, I want to jump right into the science behind
red light therapy, and our expert today again is doctor
Margareta Massy and in addition to practicing dermatology, she is
also the medical director of Dermatology in the Manhattan Division
of north Well Health in New York City. Doctor Massey,
thanks for joining us. Can you start by telling us
what exactly red light therapy is.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
So people say a red light, usually that means either
red light, which is six hundred and thirty to seven
hundred nanimeters and that's very, very superficial that just penetrates
the top layers of skin. And then there's infrared light,
which is a little bit different, but people still use
it when they talk about red light, and that goes
a little bit deeper, and that's when you think about
the joint and the muscle benefits, and sometimes even like
nervous system benefits, people are talking about a little bit different.
(07:00):
And then I think one also feature that is important
to note about red light therapy is it something we
call low level, and that means that it's not at
the high level of energy that we use in some
of these lasers, but it's low level, and so there's
less heat produced and there's less kind of risk, So
there is a better safety profile because of that.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
What is it doing to the skin? What's it doing
to our biology? You know, because it seems to me
if I shine a red light on myself, I don't
understand how it would do anything.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Absolutely, this is kind of like where the geek and
me comes out. I'm so excited about the science behind it.
So red light will shine on your cells. And if
we think back to like our high school classes, everybody
learned about the powerhouse of the cell, the mitochondre y,
yeah you remember that.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Oh yeah, definitely, somebody's got a reverb that the powerhouse
of the cell, Like you just have to it's great.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
So that's the mitochondria for you, and the red light
shines on the cell, it gets mostly targets this mitochondria,
and then mitochondri produces energy. The energy currency overs something
we call ATP, and so that energy allows us cell
to kind of go through its cell processes a little
bit more efficiently and effectively.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
Okay, So ATP is a denazine triphosphate and it's the
primary energy carrying molecule used by all of our living
cells to power all the basic biological functions.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Right, So kind of getting down to the nitty gritty
and especially how it helps with all these anti inflammatory
and skin processes. It does a few things. It kind
of suppresses the pro inflammatory cascade in our cells, so
less inflammation, releases something called nitric oxide, and that helps
dilate our blood vessels, so that means more growth factors,
more nutrients kind of coming to where we want them
(08:40):
to be. And then it can also help turn on
some genes to help stimulate fibroblasts, which are the cells
in our body that help make collagen and elastin. And
so that's where a lot of that anti aging kind
of hype comes from.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
WHOA, that's really interesting. So the skin benefits seem like
they could be any number of things. If it's opening
blood vessels, if it's promoting like some of these collagen things.
Are these supported by scientific evidence as well? I mean,
we've got this long history of science in this area.
Are all of these things supported? Should I be doing this?
Speaker 4 (09:10):
That's a good question. So you know, you have the
basic science which we've kind of talked about, but then
you also have clinical science and we can go into
kind of each indication. But I think one of the
things about red light therapy in general is that you know, yes,
we can apply it to all of these or at
least we think we can apply the benefits to all
of these different facets. But the truth is, we really
really have to look at each specific indication, and there
(09:32):
has to be some kind of good study about each
indication if we want to truly answer that question.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
Okay, doctor Massey, I wanted to get into some of
those specific indications for red light therapy and the evidence
that we currently have, But let's first talk about a
different kind of light, ultraviolet light or UV. That's the
light that the sun gives off. It can damage our skin.
Too much exposure can cause sunburns and speed up signs
of aging like wrinkles and age spots and increase your
(09:58):
risk of skin cancer. And that is what happened to
our guest Micah. So, doctor Massey, I'm going to play
you a clip of some of my interview with Micah
and get your thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
After I have been an avid sun worshiper of my
whole life, I never thought about getting skin cancer since
my melanoma diagnosis. It ended up being nine days of
having the size of a silver dollar cut out of
my right cheek and it took about seventy stitches to
(10:28):
close up. I have a scar on my cheek that
will most likely be there forever and all for a
very silly reason, you know, all because I was a
little misbehaved in the sun. My aesthetician told me about
red light, and she said it will also help your scar,
and it will help with just kind of building collagen
and fine lines and wrinkles and all the things that
(10:50):
you normally care about. The reason that I am more
intently focused on red light than most people, or what
I would have been if I wasn't diagnosed with melanoma,
is because I have a giant scar in my face.
I don't want them to be there forever, So I'm
going to try this.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
So, doctor Massey, do you think that red light therapy
is going to help with Micah's scarring?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
You know what, I really wish I could see her scar,
because we tailor our approaches to scar treatment so much
based on the type of scar, what it looks like,
how long it's been there. She did say that she
has these giant scars. It's going to help a little bit,
hopefully with kind of a commitment to doing this routinely
and regularly. But I hope she's being a little bit
more than that too.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Okay, let's keep going with some of the claims from
our guests. Here's Rosa Hoffman, a content creator who posts
regularly about red light therapy.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
You can have some serums like actually, red light and
green tea are known to work really well together. So
if you have a green tea serum, or even if
you just take a green tea and put in a
spray ball, it'll spray that on your body. That will
also help.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
So green tea does that help enhance any of the
red light therapy benefits? Is there evidence there?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
You know, I hate to say it, but I think
this is probably one of those instances. That's a little
bit more getting ahead of ourselves than like anything to
truly back it up. So what I think she's referring
to is a study from two thousand and nine, but
studying quotation marks, because I don't think you can actually
call it a study. They basically took one patient and
published a before and after photo, and there have been
no study since two thousand and nine. And so you know,
(12:21):
we know that green tea can have its own benefits.
It's an powerfully antioxidant. It actually restricts blood flow, so
good thing for things like redness, good for things like
puffy underize. But to say that together somehow they magnify
or amplify each other as effect, I just don't think
that there's any data behind that. So maybe you can
use them separately, you can use them together, but each
(12:42):
just I think has some benefit, but not something that
has to be coupled together.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Right, So it's not necessarily one's going to enhance the
work of the other one. That makes total sense. Okay,
let's play our next clip from ROSA.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I actually bought a red light device for my gums.
I had gone to the dentist this one year, like
way too many times my gums were really inflamed. All
the research I had done was really around how good
it is for inflammation. So when I bought it and
I tried it within and I am not exaggerating, it
was a very short time. I want to say a
few weeks, my gums were almost healed, to the point
(13:18):
that when I saw my dentist he was like, what
did you do. I'm like, this is what I use.
I use this device. He's like, Okay, keep doing it
because it worked. So at that point I was super
bought in that it does help with inflammation if you're
consistent and you're doing it.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
So what do you think of that clip? Does this
help with inflammation?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
So inflammation specifically, it's just hard to target because we
want to talk about true indications rather than broad inflammation.
And just because we see anti inflammatory signals on on
a molecular level, it doesn't necessarily mean that we'll translate
into kind of a clinical finding. But in her case,
I actually think that there's probably some truth to it.
And the reason I say that is because one of
(13:57):
the best studied indications red light therapy. We put a
lot of research into patients who are undergoing treatments for
cancer or cancer patients. There's just a lot of funding
for that, a lot of interest in that. And so
we know that one of the biggest benefits of red
light therapy that has been documented is for something called mucositis,
which is severe inflammation of the mucosal lining of kind
(14:18):
of your GI tract mouth included. And so a lot
of these kind of world known cancer centers will actually
have red light treatments for people who have really inflamed
mouths oral mucacitis, just to help them deal with some
of the side effects of chemotherapy. So I do actually
believe that there is probably a role for that. Most
people don't use it for oral inflammation, but the data
(14:40):
points to the fact that it probably does work.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Wow, that's amazing. So let's go back for a second
and talk about the evidence for inflammation and how this
can help with inflammation if it does.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
So, when we as dermatologists or physicians in general talk
about inflammation, we can mean twenty or thirty different different things,
different past ways. Just generally speaking, Yes, it's been shown
that when cells are exposed to red light therapy they
produce less of these prone inflammatory signals and more anti
inflammatory signals. But you have to think about, well, what
does that mean clinically? Does that make any sort of difference?
(15:15):
And I always say, just because there's a little bit
of an extra protein in a cell, that doesn't necessarily
translate into it being a cure for sorvisis or arthritis
or any of these inflammatory conditions. And so I think
it just once again we have to focus more specifically
on understanding studies for each specific indication rather than for
something like inflammation broadly.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Yeah, that makes sense. We got another clip here, Let's
listen to it, doctor Massey and see how this goes.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
No matter what I did, lasers, creams, everything, the malasma
kind of kept coming back. And so eventually I did
have a laser that really did help to clear out
a good chunk of that malasma. But it was definitely
the red light therapy that helped keep that inflammation down,
because historically speaking, my milasma always came back even in
(16:01):
the summer, the moment I'm in the warmth, or if
I have a blow dryer on my hair, that heat
would always activate it. And so because I've been so
consistent with the red light using my masks, doing my panels,
I'm not seeing the malasma come back.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
So firstly, let's define what malasma is for the people
that don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Malasma is a scuncondition where you get these patchy hyperpigmentation,
typically on your cheeks or sun exposed areas, and notoriously
very difficult to treat.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Yeah, and so do you think this is something where
red light therapy could help treat or get rid of
this malasma?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
You know, I do find that really hard to believe.
Like I said, malasma is so hard to treat, and
there's just absolutely no evidence that this is better than
any kind of classic or gold standard treatment. So if
you're suffering from malasma, I would one hundred percent all day,
every day, I recommend seeing a dermatologist talking about your topical, oral,
and laser treatment options. Yeah. I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Yeah, Okay, let's play our next clip from ROSA.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I always see like a glowier, plumpier skin when I
do red light. I've been doing it for so long
that I actually have to look back at photos from
before using red light, and you look different. I feel
more more vibrant, I just feel more plumpy. My skin
looks more alive where I feel like it was duller
(17:19):
in the past.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
This is something you hear a lot, right people look
at pictures themselves or they feel their their faces has
changed in some ways. How strong is the evidence behind
this kind of claim that the skin has got more
collagen production. It looks plumpy, it looks nice.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Yeah, you know, if we look at the studies, you
definitely see some benefit. So we talked about how it
can turn on these genes and yourself, which is pretty cool.
It really turns on genes that make more collagen, that
stimulate these fibroblasts to make more collagen. Then you look
at clinical studies, and we talked a little bit about
it before, but they'll literally clinical studies they can use
like an ultrasound, for example, to measure the density of
(17:55):
your collagen, and then this profilometry where they literally go
and measure the depth of your wrinkles. That helps quantify
those changes in collagen. So we definitely have the data there.
What's harder to gauge is scientifically measure changes enough to
see like a clinical change when you're actually looking in
the mirror. There aren't a lot of studies on that,
and I will say just from seeing a lot of
patients on this, it kind of spans the gamut. So
(18:17):
you have patients who definitely feel the same way Rosa feels,
where there's definitely a difference, and then you have patients
who are kind of upset and say, you know, I've
been using this for so long and I see no difference.
And so the truth is there is a difference on
a microscopic level, but not everybody will feel that there's
a clinical difference as well.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
So Rosa's experience with her skin that could be from
red light therapy, it could be from some other part
of her routine. It's hard to say without a lot
more research.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, exactly. And you know, I do think that there
is a benefit, for sure, but it also might be
not only because of the red light. We don't know
what else she's using. I'm not saying that there isn't
a benefit there for sure is.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
Yeah, here's another clip from Rosa.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
And red light therapy is more than just skincare to me,
it's part of my healthcare. It's a healthcare stack. So
it's about my inflammation, it's about my muscle recovery, it's
about relaxing my nervous system that's so important to me too,
and it also does help with my skincare. So I
feel like red light just does a bit more because
(19:21):
it's hitting more issues than just a skincare device. Like
red light is always a stacked protocol in my wellness journey.
So whether I'm working out on a vibration plate, my
red light is on, I could be sitting in my sauna,
my red light is on. I could be giving myself
a little laser and my red light is on, so
(19:43):
I can stack that. And that's also the part about
red light that's great is you can use red light
in any scenario.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
So, doctor Massey, what is your reaction to that.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
I think we need to bring in like a physiatrist
and neurologist to get to the bottom of some of
those claims. You know, in all seriousness, I think there
is some evolving, promising data in those feel does well
and it's really pretty neat to think about, like there's
this one treatment modality that can kind of help all
of these things. I guess my reaction is, I do
imagine that ROSA is using different wavelengths and hopefully different
(20:15):
machines to target these different concerns, because I don't want
anybody to leave this podcast thinking that, you know, your
standard red light mask is going to have any effect
on your nervous system or your joint inflammation because it
does not penetrate anywhere near to those steps. You're really
looking at the infrared wavelength in that sense.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
Yeah, that makes sense, and I think that's something that
people want it to do necessarily, right, We're looking for
those benefits. Whether the science supports it, have to wait
and see when they do more research. We have another
clip from Sly Hunt shows a barber has a huge
online following and he talks about red light therapy as well.
And he's talking about his mask here and it has
different colors of light, not just red.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
So I clicked the button, but it changed colors and
I'm like, hmm, yeah, I clicked it again and changed
the colors and then I like that. To many, it
was like he got red light blue light, and then
you can do both at the same time. So I
was like, oh, it's notat I like to turn both
of them because one of them is for rigals and
then the other ones for like blemishes.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
I'm glad that he brought this up. Because I was
curious about this too. Our little mask that we got
to explore this has like purple and has blue and
does all sorts of I look like fireworks and I'm
wearing it, So what what are the differences? Are their
differences and how do they work?
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Yeah, I really like that some masks are incorporating both
red light and blue light. Blue light has a much
shorter wavelength and even more superficial, incredibly superficial and how
and how it penetrates. So it really just targets your epidermis,
that top topmost layer of skin, and it targets something different.
It doesn't target the mitochondria, targets poor friends, and those
are molecules that are made by the bzier that cause
(21:46):
acne on our skin. And so when blue light hits
those poor friends, it makes something called reactive oxygen species,
and those are toxic to the bacteria on our skin.
And so there's less bacteria than there's less acne. And
so blue light is predominantly whereas you have a lot
of indications for red light. Light is predominantly right now
being used for acne specific treatment. And so because they
(22:06):
work differently when you combine them for something like acne,
you're probably going to get better results.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
That's fascinating. So red light penetrates a little bit deeper.
Blue light stays a little bit more surface level, and
it's mostly used for.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Acne, right, So red lights, I don't want anybody getting
the idea that red light, true red light six thirty
to seven hundred animeters really penetrates deeply, but yes, deeper
than deeper than blue light, and so they're working a
little bit differently.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Does red light also help with acne?
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Absolutely can help with acne. There have been, i think
at this point, so many studies. They are smaller studies,
and so you can't kind of draw as much of
a conclusion from smaller studies than you can have in
studies that are looking at hundreds or thousands of people.
And there are some really cool studies that actually take
people and expose half of their face to red light
and then don't do anything to that other're half of
(22:53):
the face, and that's the best comparison because it's the
same person that they're looking at, and kind of across
the board, all of those studies show that there's less
of an acne bump count lesion count when you compare
it to the side of the face that's been exposed
versus that hasn't been exposed, So that's pretty cool. You
can't really argue with that. But then you know, it
does become a question of we can see the bumps,
but how do patients perceive that? And luckily, in the
(23:15):
sense of acne, most people will say, yes, I do
feel improvement since using my acne mask. But at the
same time, you know, it's not one hundred percent. It's
not the same results that people typically get from medicine,
for example, but there's certainly a benefit and we can't
argue with that.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Got it. What about roseesia?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Roseesia I think less so to be honest, so there
just aren't as many studies first of all. But secondly,
I think when people think of roseesia, a lot of
people think of redness, and they assume that renness is
so hard to target, and were the first to admit
that as dermatologist, it's so hard to target, and so
you're not really doing anything that is targeting that specific
concern with the red light. So maybe you'll get a
(23:54):
few of the bumps from roseesia. Similarly, in it to acne,
that are decreased, but that primary concern that seems to
be run us for a lot of patients that typically
probably isn't going to be really effective.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Yeah, when you say it's hard to target, you mean
it's hard to find out exactly what might be causing
it for that person. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 4 (24:12):
No, I guess more so, I mean, and we know
that it's dilation of blood vessels, and here what the
mask we're saying, Actually it can dilat blood vessels even
more so, that doesn't you know, that's not really helpful
here for something like that, you really do need a
true laser that can target those blood vessels a little
bit more effectively. The mechanism just doesn't align.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Yeah, and so what about exzema or other inflammatory kind
of problems.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Yeah, you know, with exema, I don't think that there
are a lot of great studies. They have very few
patients and they just don't have great quality behind them.
To be fair, though, that is probably because we have
so many other tools in our toolbox as dermatologists that
work so much better for exzema that I don't think
that that's getting investigated, probably as some of the other indications,
(24:55):
but from the few studies that are out there, you know,
they tend to be less impressive and kind of the
acne studies.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
So a lot of influencers suggest that red light therapy
can improve wrinkles, can improve hair growth. Let's talk through
some of these and see which ones have some science
to support it. So first, the one you hear about
a lot, the one that I've thought about getting one
for is wrinkles, and I'm in my forties now starting
to think about it. Does it help for that?
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Yeah, well, you know, we definitely have evidence that it does.
So once again, we always want to talk think about
the basic science, does it mechanistically make sense? And then
we also want to talk about the clinical evidence, like
are people actually seeing a difference. So we mentioned fibroblasts before,
these cells that produce collagen and elastin. So it's really
cool because red light therapy has actually been shown to
turn on specific genes that kind of increase the production
(25:41):
of these fibroblasts and thereby production of collagen. And so
that's kind of what's responsible for making our skin look plump, smooth, youthful.
If you think about it. Clinically, a wrinkle improvement can
be very hard to measure. I mean, if you go
to somebody and say, well, did you do you find
that you improved your skin texture, your wrinkles improved, people
are like, I don't know, you tell me. It's very hard.
(26:03):
So some of these studies, and once again there's such
small studies, but they have used really nifty tools such
as profilometry where they have found a difference, or alostometry
where they can go and measure the amount of elastin.
And so these small, understandably small studies they do seem
to show that there is true benefit.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Yeah cool, I just picture them like stretching my face, like, yeah,
this seems stretchier than last time we were here. What
about for hair growth?
Speaker 4 (26:29):
That I would say has even stronger evidence behind it.
And that might just be because more studies have been
done more either for whatever reason, more funding or more
more interest, and you know, the people are researching these things.
We have really good data. But I just also want
to say we have really good data for specifically androgenetic alopecia,
which is a specific type of hair loss. So I
think a misconception is that it's great for all types
(26:50):
of hair loss, and we just don't have that data,
so we have data for androgenetic, which is female or
male pattern hair loss. It shifts your hair from the
kind of static phase or the shedding face to the
growth phase or what we call the anigen face, so
more hairs entering that growth phase and growing, and then
also dilates blood vessel, so you're just getting people often
do like scalp massage, which actually has some benefit too,
(27:12):
But the more nutrients and the more growth factors you
can get to the hair, the more helpful it will be.
And then clinically, when we kind of look under a microscope,
these studies pretty consistently have shown that there is one
more hair and too that the diameter of the hair
is actually greater. But what is interesting though, is that
also at the end, most of these studies will ask clinically,
we'll ask patients, well, did you see a difference. Typically
(27:34):
there is a difference, but it's much more modest than
the scientific differences. So what that means is that while
on a microscopic level we might be seeing really impressive differences,
those differences might not be kind of clinically as apparent.
Not everybody will see a difference in the mirror.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
Interesting, how often would somebody need to do this kind
of therapy? So is this something I would do every day?
Is it something I do every week?
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Most products will recommend doing good few times a week.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
A few times a week, okay, so it seems doable
for sure.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
One of the most important things that we're realizing with
red light therapy is the frequency at which people are
using it. So if you're more likely to be able
to be consistent with it at home because you can
do it at home and not have to go anywhere,
then it makes sense to do it at home because
you're going to have better results because of the consistency.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. The success of
red light therapy depends on how much time and how
often you can use it. Actually, Sly had something similar
to say about this.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Stay consistent just so you can actually see the results
that you won't because if you try it for one day,
it's going to be like, oh, it don't work. Or
if you try it for like a week, oh it
don't work. Of course it's not going to work in
seven days. You gotta do something one hundred times just
to see if it work. So try it a hundred times,
and then if it don't work or you don't see results,
then you can say it don't work. So my message
would be to stay consistent with whatever red light therapy
(28:51):
or mass that you use.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
This sounds like good advice to me, but it does
make me wonder about the risk of using red light therapy.
Is it something that's safe for everybody universally or are
there situations where people should avoid it.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
That's a great question. One of the things that we
love about it is it's great safety profile. So overall
it's very safe and the probably the most common side
effects we see or a little bit of temporary redness
or maybe a little bit of mild temporary skin pain.
But I do want to say that one population that
really should be a little bit more cautious about it
are skin of color patients, and we know that they
are at higher risk when using these masks, specifically of
(29:28):
redness that prosists permanent discoloration or even blistering, and that
doesn't happen often, but we do see it much more
often on a relative basis in that population. And so
I would say, if you are a skin of color,
I would recommend just starting out of lower power, starting
with lower shorter treatment times, and then kind of working
up as you can tolerate slowly.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
Yeah, to see how your skin reacts to it. That
term skin of color is commonly used in medical and
cosmetic circles to identify people who have naturally pigmented skin,
from olive skin tones to brown and black skin tones.
It's important to acknowledge that people with deeper skin tones
may have to modify their treatment exactly.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
And then one other question. I feel like it all
the time. Maybe it's because of my age group, but
people always want to know is it safe and pregnancy.
I feel like so many things are off limits and
pregnancy because we just don't want to take the risks. Unfortunately,
we don't have a lot of data behind it, and
I think most certain dermatologist myself included, because of that,
take a more conservative approach, better to hold off.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
We've talked about how it works, right, Let's kind of
pivot to what are some of the bigger misconceptions of
these I.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Feel like with all of these influencers now talking about
these rave reviews, I think for me, the biggest misconception
is that we've suddenly, all of a sudden stumbled upon
this magically guarded secret and now it's going to change
your life forever. And that is just, at the end
of the day, not true. You really have to understand
that these are meant to be an adjunct treatment to
other things that you're doing. So a little bit extreme,
(30:55):
but the example I always give is probably at least
a few times a month they'll have an actupatient come
into my and they'll say, you know, I don't wash
my face consistently twice a day every day, but should
I get this mask? I just want to say, well, please,
let's commit to washing your face first, like I promise
you that will give you better results than a red
light therapy mask. I think in this day and age,
we're just all hoping for like that quick health care hack.
(31:16):
You're going to get the best results if you're coupling
that with kind of a multifacet approach. So I always
try to frame it as it would be a good
adjunct therapy rather than a monotherapy. You can't compare it
directly to any of other products out there because it's
not meant to replace them. It's not meant to do
what those other products do. It's meant to work kind
of in tandem with them, you know, is their role
for it as somebody's broader skincare routine. Absolutely, it's incredibly convenient,
(31:38):
has a great safety profile. It would be silly kind
of not to utilize that. There are definitely some proven benefits.
But at the same time, it just shouldn't be the
only thing that you're doing.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
What should a consumer look for when they're evaluating one
of these devices.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
That's a great question because it certainly can seem like
the market is endless out there. Every company's trying to
jump on that on that bandwagon and sell their products,
and so for most I think you have to know
specifically what you want to target. All these indications have
different wavelengths, and so you want to find you one
that either works for acne, your skin rejuvenation, or something
not related to skin at all, and so you really
(32:12):
have to understand kind of what you're trying to solve
for past that you want to look at something called irradiance.
Irradiance we think is the measure of efficacy. So on
a box you'll see that listed as milliwats per centimeter squared.
That's how much power is actually reaching your skin. So
some of these products, we'll just have total led wottage
and that's not really going to give you much information.
(32:33):
So you really want to look at the specific irradians
and typically, generally speaking, higher I radiance means better efficacy.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
We're talking nanometers, we're talking millawatts, we're talking centimeters. That
might be a bit complicated sounding, but irradiance is the
amount of power the red light mask is shining on
each square centimeter of skin, right, more milliwatts of power,
maybe the mask is working a bit.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Better exactly past that. I would say, you know, I
know this sounds silly, but reviews reviews, reviews, So you
want something that a lot of people have used, that
have people have had good results from, and that are
very transparent about all of their specifications. Also bonus points
of something's FDA cleared, because that means it's you know,
it's been around for a little bit of time and
has had a little bit more of investigation into it.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Yeah, most people are reading the reviews of these and
they're seeing like, Okay, well this worked for me, This
worked for me. I mean you mentioned a very specific
set of wavelengths. Is there like reddish light that's outside
of that that someone might still buy a mask and
that's why it's not working. I don't know. It's kind
of a strange question, but I.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Think you know, for a lot of and this is
I guess where dermatologists come in. But for a lot
of these indications, even in that broader wavelength category, there
have been protocols that have been described that narrow down
on well, this is maybe the better wavelength for this
specific condition, and so that's where your dermatologists can come
in to be a little bit more helpful. Yeah, because
it's not just this whole spectrum of light.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
So, doctor Massey, as a dermatoil, where would you rank
red light therapy among all the different kind of interventions
that are available in anti aging and skin health? Where
would you put it?
Speaker 4 (34:10):
This might come as a surprise because I feel like
we've talked about how there are so many studies that
have shown benefits and it's convenient and it's wonderful in
so many ways. But at the same time, I do
still think that it kind of ranks on the lower
end for me. There are just a lot of other
modalities that have much stronger data behind them. So if
we're talking about the very basics, Like any day, every day,
(34:31):
I will always recommend sunscreen, a good moisturizer, and a
retinoid over red light therapy. So I feel like, if
you're not doing that, there's kind of no point in
even talking about a red light mask. You think about, well,
after that, what gives me the most drastic results, And
so I'm much more likely in patients who have specific concerns,
who have cosmetic concerns or just want their skins to
feel better, I'm much more likely to reach for things
(34:52):
like micro needling or chemical appeals, neurotoxins, or resurfacing lasers.
But that doesn't mean that there isn't a place on
the market for these. It just means that even though
there is some data, we still have other tools that
just have so much better data for them right now. Yeah,
but at the same time, I will say, you know,
you also walk down the pharmacy and see like piles
(35:14):
and piles of over the counter creams that probably have
zero data behind them, So it definitely rigs above any
of those.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
You know what, That's actually very clear. I think on
some level that makes me feel better because at first
I thought, oh, I should get one of these and
I'm like, but I'm not really doing a lot of
these other attempts, which I think is important. Red light
therapy isn't the miracle cure you might see on social media,
but it's not just hype either. For some conditions, particularly
(35:41):
certain skin disorders, there's promising evidence that red light therapy
can help when it's used correctly. For many of the
broader claims about pain, recovery, and overall wellness, the science
is still catching up. As with so many health trends,
the biggest takeaway isn't whether red light therapy works, it's
what it works, four, who it works for, and how
(36:02):
much of the internet's enthusiasm is actually supported by research.
So if you're thinking about adding red light therapy to
your routine, make sure to keep chasing the evidence, not
just the glow, and don't forget to check in with
your physician before making changes to your healthcare routine. Have
we shown you the light? Be sure to let us
know down in the comments. Thanks again to doctor Margaretta
(36:24):
Massey for sharing her expertise with us, and thanks to
Sly Hunt Show, Rosa Hoffman, and Micah Stanbaugh for sharing
their stories and experiences with us too. We did it again.
That makes eight online health and wellness trends that we
got to the bottom of. Don't worry, though, we still
have many more trends to cover when Health Versus hyperturns
for another season, So subscribe or follow now if you
(36:46):
haven't already, and join us next time on Health Versus
Hype with the American Medical Association. For more information on
all the topics we're covering, visit AMA Health Versus Hype
dot org. That's AMA Health vs. Hype dot com. Health
Versus Hype is a production of Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia
and the American Medical Association. I'm traced to him Guez.
(37:07):
Our producers are Matt Stillo and Pamela Lawrence. Michael Depoe
Wilson is our writer. The show is engineered and features
original music by Matthew Ernest Filler. Health Versus Hype is
intended for educational and informational purposes only and does not
constitute medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice
of your physician with any questions you may have regarding
(37:28):
a medical condition.
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