March 31, 2026 • 38 mins
Allia Mohamed is the co-founder and CEO of Openigloo, a platform that connects renters with highly-rated landlords and enables renters to review and research their landlords. With OpenIgloo, Allia’s mission is to bring transparency to rental markets and support tenants throughout their housing journey. Motivated by her own frustrating experiences navigating opaque landlord practices and unpredictable living conditions, she launched OpenIgloo to give renters a voice and access to trustworthy, crowdsourced information about buildings and property owners. Since its launch, OpenIgloo has grown into a trusted resource for renters seeking honest reviews and insights before signing a lease. Allia Mohamed brings a decade of experience from working in finance, venture capital, and consulting. Prior to founding Openigloo, Mohamed served as a VC investor where she managed a startup portfolio as an advisor and board member. She holds a Master of International Affairs from Columbia University and a Bachelor of Commerce from Dalhousie University
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. Renting an apartment in any city
can be a stressful and daunting situation, but nowhere more
so than New York. My guest today is the creator
of a platform that makes the process of finding both
quality apartments and landlords easier. Alia Mohammed created open Igloo
(00:29):
after navigating her own frustrations with the rental market. Born
in Canada, Mohammed spent nearly a decade working in international finance,
venture capital, and consulting. She would eventually leave finance for
the startup world and chose a cause close to home.
With open Igloo, Mohammed hopes to bring transparency to rental
(00:53):
markets by combining open source city data with feedback and
reviews directly from tennant. As of this year, twenty twenty six,
open igloo has supported more than three million New York
City renters. I wanted to know how open igloo gained
such a large following since its launch in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
They find us on social media, they hear about us
through friends and family, and sometimes on podcasts and then
radio shows.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Okay, but when they come to you they is it
a fee they pay? Now? I was told that there's
was there a fee from the beginning, and now there
and there wasn't and now there is whove grounds much
you need to charge them my fee?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, So we support renters all across the five boroughs
in researching buildings and landlords. They're considering and searching for
quality apartments. So we don't charge renters when they search
for an apartment on our platform. The way that we
monetize is we build partnerships with quality and reputable owners,
and when we send them, renters to their door and
at least get signed. That's how we get compensated.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Owners of the buildings. Exactly, and how did the owners
of the buildings react at first when you went to
them and tell them what it was you had up
your slave. It's a great question.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So at the beginning, they were definitely cautious about what
we were building. So we built a platform that allows
renters to read and share reviews about their rental experiences.
We coupled that with city data, so we give renters
access to are there any open violations in this building?
Any litigation history, any eviction history? So landlords were you know,
a little bit cautious. But what we've done is we
(02:25):
built a community of landlords that are really supportive of
this transparency because landlords who take their businesses seriously understand
that renters knowing the good, bad and ugly before they
sign a one good face is really really important. I mean,
I'll give you a small example. There was an apartment
above a bodega that turns into a nightclub every single
night until four in the morning. Why would a landlord
(02:47):
want a tenant to move in not having access to
that information, right, that's not going to be a good
a good starting point for the relationship. So that's really
what we're after is bringing these two sides together and
giving them access to information.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Now, when you have the owners of the buildings, and
there was the ones that didn't want to participate in
your program, they don't want to cooperate it in any way.
That led me to think, among other things, of what's
the number one complaint that renters have in New York
about the buildings they are And I'm going to assume
it's heat.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Heat is a huge one, especially in the weather that
we're having in New York City right now, record weather
exactly seventy percent of buildings in New York City rely
on the landlord to turn on the heat. We also
have really old housing stock in New York City, so
we're using steamed radiators that haven't been maintained in you know,
in decades. So this is a real challenge that even
if the heat is working in the building, your apartment
(03:39):
might feel like asauna. Right, it's one hundred degrees in
your apartment. So definitely heat is a number one complaint
amongst runters.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Now, when I would assume that New Yorkers, or the
political consciousness of New York as it's expressed during elections
and what the candidates say, they care deeply about housing
and the lack thereof, would you say that that's true.
New Yorkers want us to do something about the house situation,
and not just the ones you need it affordable house Exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
There are five and a half million renters in New
York City, sixty five percent of the city rents their home,
and there just simply isn't enough housing. And then you
also look at the affordability of the housing that does exist.
Thirty percent of New York City renter, the majority of
New York City renters spend more than thirty percent of
their income on rent. Another thirty percent of New York
(04:24):
City renter is spend over fifty percent of their income
on rent. So this is considered a very severely rent
burdened city, and it needs to be a holistic solution
that includes building housing, but also smart policy that's going
to keep renters housed in the long run.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Are you heartened by mom Donnie becoming the mayor?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
You know, I'm excited that he really focused on housing
affordability as a pillar of his campaign, and he really
spoke to the hearts of New Yorkers, which is this
is something we're struggling with every single month when we
write that rent check. And I'm excited that he seems
to be really focused on solving this problem.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I remember when I was young, I would come into
New York and we would get the Village Voice there
was no internet, and look for ass in the real
estate market. Go to the apartment, stand in line. The
line's a block long. I'm ever forget. I'm on Bleaker Street.
I walk into the studio and all the walls are
peeling off, the plasters pill you see the last inside
(05:22):
you can see the laugh inside the wood framing, inside
the walls. Everything, the paint is peeling. The thing is
a mess, and there's like a box, a wooden box
resemble the steam trunk. But then you look closer, there
was drawers there. They just had the frame unpainted and
you put a mattress on top, I guess, or some
piece of pham. And I walk up to the guy
and they wanted like back then, they wanted some you know,
(05:43):
I don't remember. It was like, let's say it's fifteen
hundred dollars for something that should have cost half that.
I look at the guy. Because of the neighborhood, obviously
there's a line of people, and I say to the guy,
you gotta be kidding me. I looked him right in
the face. You're charging fifteen hundred dollars to this. He goes.
You come back at four o'clock, it'll be gone. And
that was the reality of it. I learned right away
your apartment. How did you find your apartment?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I found my apartment by standing outside of the building
waiting for people walking in and out, asking them if
they liked the building. So my New York City rental
story not as exciting as yours. But I lived in
apartments that were not well maintained, landlords that never picked
up the phone when something went wrong. So whenever I
would apartment hunt, I wanted to do more research. I
(06:26):
would just stand outside of buildings. I would wait for
people walking in and out, saying do you live here?
How's the landlord? Should I move in? And I got
a lot of really valuable information from doing that, and
that's ultimately how I found my apartment. I got good
reviews from the people that were walking out. And this
was really the light bulb moment to start opening glow,
which is, can we build a platform to crowdsource this
rental feedback, couple it with city data, and give renters
(06:49):
their own background check on a building and landlord in
the same way that renters have to put together one
hundred page application to get an apartment in New York City.
So that's how I found my apartment. It's rent stabilized,
it's in Brooklyn. I've lived there for many years and
don't have plans to leave anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Where are they doing it better? What city are they
doing it better? Because you hear about housing crises all over,
particularly San Francisco, because of the tech world pricing all
that housing. Where's the city that you think is getting
it more right than wrong?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Oh my goodness, it's a great it's a great question.
And I think that New York is not unique in
being a city that struggles with their housing. You look
at San Francisco, you look at La you even look
at Miami that had a lot of influx of new
new renters during COVID. This is a global issue with
metropolitan cities. Even if you look at case studies in Europe,
(07:37):
which you know in Vienna or Berlin or even Paris,
cities that have really strong rent regulation, they're also struggling
to keep up with the population growth and grow the
housing stock. So I think this is something that's really universal.
It's the medium and smaller cities that are that are
doing better, like a Boston or a DC.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
How's Toronto.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Toronto also is having a lot of challenges. A lot
of their housing stock is new, brand new condos, luxury
condos where rents are just too expensive and your average
working class family can't even afford to move into the
new housing that's being constructed. So this is this is
definitely a global issue across the gambit.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I see those huge buildings on the south end of
the park. I see those enormous pencil like buildings they
put up in recent ears to the ugliest buildings I've
ever seen in New York.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
And they have their own construction issues. There was the
story of the match Tick building on Park Avenue where
the garbage shoot, the garbage velocity, yes, exactly, it was
just exploding. And you know, people spend tens of millions
of dollars on those apartments.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So one thing that comes to mind is I hear,
maybe just in my head, the wording of people who
are opposed to the work you do. They're totally market driven,
and they're going to sit there and say, why does
New York owe everybody a place to live here? Like
once we reach where we are and there's a I mean,
I'm all for rend control, stabilization, but the idea that
we owe everybody a house, why don't they just go
(09:04):
somewhere else. There's no room, it's done, it's filled up
for now, and unless they build other things, what do
you say to them?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You know, I have a very firm belief that there
are some things that are human rights, and housing is
one of them, and housing is something that permeates into
all aspects of our society. If people do not have
stable housing, they're not going to have access to education,
They're not going to have access to economic opportunity. Housing
is really the foundation to living in a successful society.
(09:36):
And you'll talk to some of these free market capitalists
that also share that belief that you should not be
able to charge whatever you want on housing, education, or healthcare.
These are things that are extremely sacred that need to
have some sort of regulation. New York City has always
been a place where people want to live, that people
move from all over the world, and we need to
(09:56):
make sure that we are accommodating the spirit and culture
and the history of New York City.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
You function, I'm sure the fees that are paid to
you by your clients, if you will, that doesn't cover
all the costs, correct, correct? So you get funding from
where we do. We're a venture back to startup, right,
and where does the money come from?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So we have monetization models, but we also have venture
capital investors that also believe in this mission of rental
transparency that has provided funding to us.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
You did a lot of things in your career, Yes,
before you did this, and I'm assuming you did fairly well.
You win all these money. My friends who do finance
or whatever it is, as a matter of treasure anything,
I just called them. They're in money. I said, yes,
just make my life simpler because I can't keep track
of all these different offshoots. But you did that. Do
you miss it or do you still do it? Are
(10:43):
you still an entrepreneur in the way that you were
before opening clip?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I am an entrepreneur full time with Open a Glue,
and I do miss my prior stints. I worked in banking,
I worked in venture capital, investing in startups, working on
a trading floor. My first job out of college was
working in Wall Street. That's what brought me to New
York City to begin with. And there's something fun about
the pace and also just the learning. Right When you
(11:08):
work in that type of environment, you're reading the news.
You're reading about what's going on in all corners of
all corners of the world. And I loved that about
the job. But I do that now in my work
with Openeglo. I love staying on top of what is
going on in our city, what is going on in
city politics, what is going on in the housing space,
what is on renters' minds, and taking all of that
(11:30):
knowledge to build a platform that hopefully is going to
make New York City better in the long run. What
we're seeing now, just a few years into building Open Agloo,
is that landlords are changing their behavior. They're actually taking
care of their buildings because they're realizing that the transparency
that we're putting in, the spotlight we're putting on them
means they're losing clients. They're not signing leases as fast
(11:51):
as they once were because renters are looking at the
reviews and saying, well, I don't want to pay four
thousand dollars a month to live here. You don't take
care of your renters that you have right now. So
we're starting to see that impact, and that's really what
I'm excited to continue to focus on.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Not in all things, but I tend to view when
I was reading about you and your work, I tend
to view it like other things, where you're doing jobs
the government ought to be doing. You're providing a service,
and you're providing a reality to people that is a
business the government might have been in to provide transparency,
and so.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Farth transparency and also informing renters about their rights. So
rent stabilization is a big policy that impacts millions of
New Yorkers. There's nearly a million rent stabilized apartments, and
we ask renters when they're reviewing their landlords and buildings,
do you live in a stabilized apartment?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yes? No?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Not sure? Thirty five percent of our users check not sure,
and that breaks my heart. That means that there are
hundreds of thousands of renters who probably live in a
stabilized apartment and don't even know it. And having this
type of protection means your rent increases are limited and
you are entitled to a renewal. The landlord cannot ask
you to leave. So big mission at O BINEGLO has
(13:00):
been sharing this information, trying to trying to get the
work done. Believe absolutely, it's devastating when you when you
think about the old school New Yorkers and we all
know one or two of them that are living in
a five hundred dollars rent controlled apartment on the Upper
West Side. Those are because those renters knew their rights
right and they stayed in that apartment for their entire lives,
and as a result, they're able to stay and live
(13:23):
in the city comfortably, and I want to make sure
as many renters know about those rights as possible.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Open igloo co founder and CEO Alia Mohammad. If you
enjoy conversations about the heart of New York City, check
out my episode with WNYC's Brian Larra.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
People have said to me, oh, your show is the
opposite of Rush Limbaugh. And it's not because he's conservative
and I'm liberal. It's because he makes no secret about
the shows about what he thinks. For me, I have opinions.
I sometimes state my opinions, or I sometimes frame questions
(14:03):
in a leading way that suggests an opinion. But the
show is not about what I think. So if I'm
expressing a point of view, which I'm allowed to do
on the show, but if I do express an opinion,
it's in the context of, Okay, this is what I think. Now,
everybody else who agrees or disagrees, come on in and
(14:24):
let's have a meaningful conversation about it.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
To hear more of my conversation with Brian Lehrer, go
to Here's Thething dot org. After the break, Alia discusses
her hopes for New York City housing plans under Mayor Mumdani.
(14:52):
I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is here's the thing. As
the affordable housing crisis swells across the United States, New
York City leads the way with its unaffordable market for renters.
The newly elected Mayor Zoran Mamdani aims to freeze the
rents on the one million rent stabilized apartments in New
(15:13):
York City. As the terms are often conflated, I wanted
Ali Mohammad to explain the difference between rent controlled and
rent stabilized.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So rent stabilized is typically buildings that were built before
nineteen seventy four that have six or more units, and
rent controlled are very specific units that were built before
nineteen forty seven, where there I might get the years
wrong one or two, but built before nineteen forty seven
(15:43):
where there has been a continuous tenant since nineteen seventy one.
So if you've lived in your apartment since nineteen seventy
one and the building was built before nineteen forty seven,
you might have a rent control department. Now, there's only
about sixteen thousand rent control departments left in New York City,
and that's because when that continuous tenant who most likely
passes away that rent control department converts into a rent
(16:06):
stabilized apartment. So that's just a different regulation status, but
they have many of the similar protections that the rent
control departments are going to be. Those eighty dollars apartments
in Manhattan, and the rent stabilized apartments are not necessarily affordable,
and I think this is a common myth in New York.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
City as well.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So rent stabilized is just giving you protections against really
crazy rent increases, and it protects you against the landlord saying, oh,
I'm not renewing you. You have to leave. That's all
rent stabilization does, but it doesn't mean affordable. The most
expensive rent stabilized apartment on record is fifty thousand dollars
a month per month, and that is because over the
years there have been these tax abatement programs. For example,
(16:44):
where developers build a building they don't have to pay
property taxes for thirty forty years if they make the
building rent stabilized. So it's still very common that you
will see, you know, these units in Hudson Yards that
are rent stabilized, but you do have those protections against
large rent increases.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Now many many people come in I'm talking about the
mayor's race in Mondani and they come in and they
have a lot of hopes and they advertise a lot
about what they intend to do. What do you think
that's achievable? From Mom, Donnie, what would you like to
see him do?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I would love to see his plan of building two
hundred thousand affordable units in New York City where they
go all across the five boroughs. No neighborhood is going
to be immune from getting affordable units built. And this
has been one of the biggest debates in New York City. Oh,
we don't want an affordable housing unit building in Soho.
We don't want affordable housing built on the Upper West Side.
(17:35):
We really need to come together as a community.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
See a lot of affordable housing on the Upper West
Side now as it is, there's a lot of housing authority.
I lived on a I used to live in the
El Dorado for twenty years and in that West nineties
area there was a lot of public housing.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
There is, but there's not enough. When you look at
how the city has grown, and the vacancy rate in
New York City is sub two percent, There's not enough housing.
So I would like to see those two hundred thousand
units built all across the city in the places where
it's going to have the most impact. Right now, there's
challenges and need to make sure if you build those homes,
there's infrastructure to support it, schools, transportation, all of those things.
(18:12):
But if he can really execute on this vision, the
city is going to be in a much better place
than when it started.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
You look at the city and you say, going in
across all five burroughs, and I'm assuming there's some watchdogs
groups like your own similar where the mission is to
locate where more likely could that go? You either have
to identify a insignificant amount of open land that's there
to build houses on within reason, or you're going to
(18:40):
tear something down. When Columbia decided to expand their campus
and they went and bought all these muffler shops or
whatever was up there adjacent to them and ripped everything down,
ripped down like a whole block, yep. And they're going
to do like the wall and have more wall and everything,
you know, their campus, their private campus. Where do you
think the housing can be built quickest?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, it's a great question. Even you know to your
comment about Columbia, they have a very dark history when
it comes to their expansion and displacing communities. I think
we need to be really intentional that if we're going
to be aggressive with this plan to build housing, it
needs to make sure it's taking into consideration the wants
of the community. Give you an example in Bedstide, there
(19:21):
was a project to build an affordable housing building in
a parking lot beside a church, and there were protests
and people were upset about this. How could you build
this beside the church. We weren't tearing down the church
or anything like that. This was a vacant parking lot
that hadn't been used. And there are places like that
all across the city. My friends and family hate me
because every time we're walking somewhere in New York, I'm like,
that could be housing. That could be housing. This could
(19:42):
be housing. It's abandoned parking lots, even in Manhattan. So
I think that there's a lot of opportunities to build
the housing that we need without displacing or changing, you know,
the culture and facade of the neighborhoods that we hold.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Dear, you're doing that work to your knowledge, now of
identifying where the housing can go. Is there a group
you work with or admire or are aware of who.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Is Yeah, you know, citing that city council members, there's
a lot of city council members that are taking this
task really seriously. One or two Tosa, for example, he's
a city council member in BADSTI who was behind that
project close to the church. And I would really encourage
other council members to follow suit and identify those development
(20:23):
areas in their community and do it in a way
with public input, of course, but with a sense of urgency,
because we don't have five years to just argue and
debate what color the brick should be. We need housing yesterday.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, in that way, that real estate is always someone's equity.
There's a town I work in in a film festival culture,
and there's a movie theater there which does okay in
the captive summer months. This is out on Long Island.
The guy that owns the theater, he's never going to
sell it to us, never we've begged him. We've gotten
people with a lot of money, some rich monsters of
(20:59):
our activities. We thought we could work it out. Had
a number that made sense for everybody. But it didn't
matter what the number was, he was. And you always
realize that there are people out there, a huge number
of them, who are never selling their land or their property.
This is of a value them they think is only
going to go up. Is that a problem you come
up with in New York.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know, it's a good point with the theater example.
Real estate is emotional. In New York City. It is emotional,
and anybody who's bought or sold a home knows this.
People think their houses are worth way more than it
actually is because of the childhood memories you have from that.
It's just not true. I would say in New York
City you do see a lot of buildings change hands.
(21:36):
I don't think you have the same stubbornness when it
comes to real estate because it is a business. But
the investors that have done the best are the ones
that have bought and held and never sold. And this
is where you see the most success in New York
City real estate portfolios. You bought a couple buildings in
the fifties, bought a couple buildings in the sixties, and
you kept just building the portfolio. So maybe there is
a little bit of stubbornness. But the buildings in New
(21:58):
York City are already residential units, right, so you don't
have this. You know, the garage owner won't sell because
we want to build housing. I don't think that's true.
I think a lot of those businesses they do end
up selling to developers and getting those buildings built.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Co founder and CEO of open iglu Alia Mohammad. If
you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be sure
to follow Here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify
or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back,
Mohammad tells us how to find a rent stabilized apartment
(22:35):
in New York City. I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is
here's the thing. When open igloo first began in twenty twenty,
its primary goal was to bring transparency to the New
(22:57):
York City rental market help for renters. Open Igloo provides
a platform for tenants to review their landlords and buildings.
By twenty twenty two, open igloo was listed as one
of the top one hundred apps in the App Store,
and since then has grown to help millions of renters
(23:17):
in the Five Boroughs with such success. I was curious
how Alia plans to grow open Igloo beyond her original mission.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I got asked all the time, when is open agglu
gonna expand beyond even New York City. So we started
the platform to help renters do research, and we've really
evolved into a platform where people can find an apartment.
And when I say that, I mean do the research,
find the apartment, schedule the tour, apply for the apartment,
pay sign all within a digital and transparent platform, because
(23:50):
what we commonly hear from New York City renters is
the scams. Okay, I found the apartment, I scheduled the tour,
the broker ignored me, never showed up. Or I applied
for the apartment but there were fifty other applications and
I didn't get it, or there was a bidding war,
or it was a made up scam to begin with.
So these are the challenges we really want to tackle
for renters and help them not just during the due
(24:10):
diligence phase, but really throughout their entire rental journey, and
not just for their first apartment, but for their second
apartment and their third apartment. I think the thing that
always frustrated me was Why is it so hard to
get an apartment the second apartment. I just already have
one year of rent payment history. I'm a good tenant,
everything's good. Why do we need to go through the
same application system all over again. So I think if
(24:32):
we really scale open Igloo to make it this digital platform,
we can make it a lot easier for renters all
across the country.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
How much does an organization like yours at least attempt
to locate housing for people outside the Five boroughs? You
want to say to them, here's some things that are
more affordable for you in New Jersey, in Westchester Lower Westchester.
Are there areas where the City of New York could
be cooperating with other cities and other states in terms
(25:00):
of building affordable housing outside of the.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Five borough Absolutely, I mean you've definitely seen this happen
with New Jersey, a lot of New Yorkers moving to
Jersey City, Hoboken, even deeper into Jersey be definitely more
affordable in New York City. But also the quality. Right
you talk to anybody who lives in Hoboken, They're like,
I've got a pool, and I got a gym, and
i got a rooftop and I'm paying twenty two hundred
dollars a month, which is considered cheap to your average
New Yorker who pays for rent here. But I think
(25:24):
there's definitely room to collaborate with other cities. But what
I would really like to see the city focus on
is the Five Boroughs, because there's so much work to
be done here in the outer Boroughs, in the Bronx,
in Staten Island. There are opportunities all across the Five
Boroughs to build more quality, affordable housing for people who
want to live here. Right, And I hear this all
the time. If you can't afford to live in New York,
(25:46):
just go somewhere else? What about New Yorkers? What about
people who were born and raised here and their families
are here, and their kids' schools are here. It's not
as simple as saying, just move to New Jersey. There's
twenty two hundred dollars apartments over there. We really need
to solve it within our our own four walls.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
How does somebody find a rent stabilized apartment in New York?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
So funny you ask. So you shared earlier about the
Village Voice having to circle classifieds, and you know trying
to know somebody who knows somebody to get your hands
on one.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Of these apartments.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
This was the old way of finding rent stabilized apartments
in New York City. And there's a new way that
we've been really focused on at Open a glu, which
is identifying where these vent say they.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Were previous rather than old. So don't say that's the
old way, it's the old way.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
To sorry, the former way, the previous way. Thank you, Yes,
you're welcome. I apologize please.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
So now we you.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Know, we really want to try and come up with
a digital and transparent way of identifying these apartments. So
in New York City, every single landlord is required to
register their rent stabilized apartments with the state, and we've
taken that data and we've put it on open a
Glue so that you can go and you can search
for I want two bedrooms in this neighborhood at this budget,
and I want it to be rent stabilized, and we
(26:55):
will show you all the units that are available that
are in buildings with those stabilized apartments. There was a
recent law that passed, the Rental Transparency Act and went
into effect just this month that requires landlords to post
notices in their common areas if there are rent stabilized
apartments in the building. And this law was to try
and help renters who are already living in the building
to know if maybe they have a rent stabilized apartment
(27:16):
and know their rights, et cetera. But it's not really
that helpful to people who are apartment hunting because you
don't go door to door and sort of poke your
hat into these vestibules. So this is one of the
ways that you can find a stabilized apartment is going
to opening.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
What's your evaluation to the extent as it relates to
your work, as it relates to people trying to locate
even remotely affordable housing. About the real estate companies in
this city, do they I mean, do real estate companies
when people go and say to them, I want to
get in an apartment and you sa, how much I
have to spend and you're like a normal average person
(27:47):
who wants to be able to spend twenty five or
thirty percent of your monthly income on the rent? Are
they laughing in their faces? And now do the real
estate community community they don't get it sometimes?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Right, you definitely have conversations with those brokers that say, oh,
you're what you're looking for is completely unrealistic, Like I
can't help you, it's not out there. Yeah, your budget
is less than two thousand dollars, like good luck, move
out of state. And you know our answer is yes,
it is very difficult to find those cheap apartments, but
it's not impossible. You need to be intentional, you need
(28:19):
to be focused, and you need to leverage the tools
that are at your disposal, everything from our platform to
the affordable housing lotteries to you know, staying close with
your uncle so that you can inherit the apartment.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
When I was going to school in Washington, which was
the first city I lived in. When I was in
DC to go to gw and they were saying, how
DC was the opposite of New York. We're in DC,
all the wealth was in the center of town, and
you lived in the suburbs going outward to Bethesda and
Silver Spraying and so forth, and the Virginia suburbs, and
that New York was the opposite of that. All the
(28:51):
wealth is in the heart of the city, and everybody
who doesn't have any that has less money and less
economic opportunity to live outside and the other boroughs. And
I'm wondering, is there a bor you think is the
most ready to be redeveloped now with affordable housing the Bronx.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Perhaps the Bronx definitely, but that comes with a lot
of challenges. So we've seen projects open up in the
Bronx that aren't truly affordable.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
You look at the area median income for some neighborhoods
in the Bronx forty fifty thousand dollars a year household
incomes and the apartments are being priced at thirty one
hundred thirty five hundred four thousand. Because these brand new,
beautiful luxury developments. So it's not just enough to build
the housing. The Bronx got a lot of new housing
over the past five years. Problem is, no one can
(29:37):
afford to live in them. So this is something that
we really need to get to the Crux to But
the Bronx is a big burrow and there's a lot
of development opportunities there. My fear is that if we
continue to build these luxury apartments, we're not actually going
to solve anything.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Now there are unscrupulous obviously landlords. I've had a couple
of not many, And we hear about people who don't
get their deposits back. What remedies do they have available
to them.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
If they don't get their deposit back from their landlord.
It's definitely something that happens in New York City. We
actually track data about this at open igloo. The good
thing is that seventy percent of renters report getting their
complete security deposits back at the end of their lease,
and it's a thirty percent that don't. And I'm sure
there's a percentage of those that maybe there was something
that they did break and something should have been retained.
(30:23):
But if a landlord unjustly keeps a security deposit, you
can file a complaint with the Attorney General or you
can take them to Small Claims court. Within fourteen days
of your moveout, and this is a law in New
York City, within fourteen days of your move out, the
landlord has to send you an itemized receipt of why
they are keeping or retaining the deposit. And if they
don't send that to you, they essentially forfeit it back
(30:44):
to you. So those are the past to try and
get it back. At open Igluo, we really want renters
to do research on the landlord before they move in.
Do they have a reputation for not returning security deposits?
And this is data that we track and display on
our platform so that you can avoid those places and
hopefully avoid of that more of.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Them that you want to admit too, that we want
to imagine in terms of that, don't give them their
money back.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Absolutely, yeah, definitely, it's it's a common practice. I'm happy
that it's not as common. It's not the majority of cases,
but there's definitely landlords that are notorious for never giving
security deposits back. What renters will commonly do, and this
is you know, not legal, is they will use the
security deposit to pay for their last month's rent and
then they don't have to deal with this, you know,
(31:25):
potentially confrontanial arrangement. I sort of have a controversial take
on this where I tell renters do not use your
security deposit as your last month's rent, because there is
another law that says you were supposed to earn interest
on your security deposit. So if you use your security
deposit to pay last month's rent, you're essentially forfeiting the
interest that your security deposit earned over that however long
(31:47):
you lived in the apartment. So that's that's my advice
to renters, is you know, collect that interest. I know
it might be little, but if you live somewhere for
five ten years, it adds up.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
My first department in New York that I bought was
a condo, and then I moved into the Eldorado. I
went from a condo to a co op. And now
I'm in a building that's a condo. And I have
been told by the brokers we've dealt with and those
people who've tried to make an offer for us in
our building that there's much more of an attraction toward
condos now than co ops because a lot of people
don't want to pull their pants down and show all
(32:17):
their finances and everything else, like none of your business,
you know, exactly. So my building is lower Fifth Avenue,
and all that east of Fifth Avenue to Broadway area
near Washington Square, all that area is mostly co ops,
and the ones that are condos are thriving. Yes, you know,
everybody wants to come and live at a condo because
they don't want to deal with the board. And we've
(32:40):
had a lot of people connumbering our doorbell and ask
us to buy our apartment.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Don't get me started on the co ops. And it's
one of those things, Alec that I tell renters never
rent in a co op.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Let's get you started. Go ahead, let me start this rant.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
You know, co ops are great, they're beautiful, right, some
of them are beautifully maintained. But when you're a renter
in a co op, it's difficult enough to be an
owner in a car, right, But if you're a renter
and a co op, it's a whole different story. Why
because you are not protected against a lot of things
that renters are protected against in normal buildings. So i'll
give you an example. In New York City, the maximum
(33:12):
that a landlord can charge on a rental application is
twenty dollars simple credit check, background check, et cetera. In
a co op. There is no cap in condos as well,
So co ops can charge one thousand dollars for a
rental application two thousand dollars, and they will. And it's
essentially this way of discriminating against renters, to say we
don't like renters here, and if you can't afford the
non refuehightory, yes, if you can't afford the non refundable
(33:35):
two thousand dollars application, we don't want you here. And
I think there's something that's got something's got to change there.
Even term limits, right, A lot of co ops have
rules that an owner can only sublet their unit for
two years at a time. So as a renter, you
move in, you're just kind of getting settled. You've already
paid all of these fees, and two years later you
have to leave because of board rules. So I think
(33:55):
from a renter's perspective, living and renting in a co
op is a no no for me.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
What do you know about the air conditioning situation in
New York that's coming up.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I have been talking about this for years and years.
So in New York City, there's very strict heat laws.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
New York City landlords are legally obligated to make sure
that their renters have working in sufficient heat because, as
we're seeing, winter can be dangerous and people do die
in their apartments, especially vulnerable elderly New Yorkers. There's a
law to propose something similar for air conditioning. Anyone that
has spent a summer in New York City knows how
disgustingly hot it can be, but also dangerously hot.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So a lot of New Yorkers they live without air conditioning,
and this law would propose that landlords have those same
obligations to air conditioning as they do to heat. Now,
they wouldn't necessarily be obligated to pay for the air
conditioning the electrical bill, for example, from running the air conditioner,
but making sure that the apartment is outfitted with an
air conditioner. But in New York City, for example, every
(34:53):
single summer, cooling centers open up all around the city.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Are cooling buses, Yes, you're.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
The cooling buses. They have doing the same thing right now.
During this cold spurt, warming buses all of its buses
to warming buses. Hospitals turn into warming centers twenty four
to seven. And this is crazy. It means that people
live in apartments where they're not getting sufficient heat or
they're not being able to stay cool, and they actually
have to go to one of these public buildings.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
That's talk about the lottery. It's talking about the lottery.
What is your assessment of the lottery? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Interesting, So New York City has something called the Affordable
Housing Lottery. So a lot of these new construction buildings
that go up, a percentage of the units need to
be allocated for the Affordable Housing Lottery and they are
given to New Yorkers that meet certain income restrictions. Right,
it's been a very successful program. There have been hundreds
of thousands of New Yorkers that have been placed in
(35:44):
these units, but it also has some criticisms. Right the
time it takes to get placed. If you make even
a penny more than what the band is, you don't
get the apartment. Also, some of these bands are allocated
to people who make one hundred and fifty one hundred
and sixty five thousand dollars a year, which by New
York standards doesn't mean you're a very wealthy person. But
(36:04):
it leaves a lot of questions as to why do
we need an affordable housing lottery to house people that
are making six figures? What about people that make lower incomes?
So a lot of criticisms of the program. There was
a recent change, for example, where a person that got
placed in an affordable housing lottery, if they moved out,
that unit used to have to go back into the lottery.
And what would end up happening is that unit would
(36:25):
stay empty for months and months. And they've changed the
law temporarily so that people can just apply directly, first come,
per serve, so we can get that turn happened a
little bit faster.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
This takes me back to the earliest days of my
young days in New York. My uncle lived in his apartment,
him and my father. They were from Fort Green, the
old Fort Grain, But I grew up and spent a
lot of time there as a child with my father's parents,
and my uncle lived in Manhattan for years and got
in an apartment of rent, stabilized apartment with very modest rent.
People don't understand that in New York, with some modest exceptions,
(36:58):
whether it's a terrace or a comunity garden, whatever, then
in New York your home is pretty modest. And in California,
you go out and the sun's on you and you're
going to grow your tomatoes or whatever the hell. But
in New York, you've got to open the door and
close the door behind you when it's your home and
your way. A home in New York is precious, and
I've always been taken with that idea of you know,
(37:18):
you close that door and you have peace and you
have security and I think the work that you're doing
is amazing. I think it's amazing. Thank you very much.
And it's just for all the downtown work you did.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Yes, I'm making up for my bad past.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Thank you so much for doing this with us.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Thank you for having me. It was such an amazing conversation.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
My thanks to open igloos Alia Mohammad. This episode was
recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. We're produced
by Kathleen Russo, Zach McNeice, and Victoria de Martin. Our
engineer is Isaac Kaplin Woolner. Our social media manager is
Danielle Gingwich. I'm Alec Bald and here's the thing is
(38:01):
brought to you by iHeart Radio
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. Renting an apartment in any city
can be a stressful and daunting situation, but nowhere more
so than New York. My guest today is the creator
of a platform that makes the process of finding both
quality apartments and landlords easier. Alia Mohammed created open Igloo
(00:29):
after navigating her own frustrations with the rental market. Born
in Canada, Mohammed spent nearly a decade working in international finance,
venture capital, and consulting. She would eventually leave finance for
the startup world and chose a cause close to home.
With open Igloo, Mohammed hopes to bring transparency to rental
(00:53):
markets by combining open source city data with feedback and
reviews directly from tennant. As of this year, twenty twenty six,
open igloo has supported more than three million New York
City renters. I wanted to know how open igloo gained
such a large following since its launch in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
They find us on social media, they hear about us
through friends and family, and sometimes on podcasts and then
radio shows.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Okay, but when they come to you they is it
a fee they pay? Now? I was told that there's
was there a fee from the beginning, and now there
and there wasn't and now there is whove grounds much
you need to charge them my fee?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, So we support renters all across the five boroughs
in researching buildings and landlords. They're considering and searching for
quality apartments. So we don't charge renters when they search
for an apartment on our platform. The way that we
monetize is we build partnerships with quality and reputable owners,
and when we send them, renters to their door and
at least get signed. That's how we get compensated.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Owners of the buildings. Exactly, and how did the owners
of the buildings react at first when you went to
them and tell them what it was you had up
your slave. It's a great question.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So at the beginning, they were definitely cautious about what
we were building. So we built a platform that allows
renters to read and share reviews about their rental experiences.
We coupled that with city data, so we give renters
access to are there any open violations in this building?
Any litigation history, any eviction history? So landlords were you know,
a little bit cautious. But what we've done is we
(02:25):
built a community of landlords that are really supportive of
this transparency because landlords who take their businesses seriously understand
that renters knowing the good, bad and ugly before they
sign a one good face is really really important. I mean,
I'll give you a small example. There was an apartment
above a bodega that turns into a nightclub every single
night until four in the morning. Why would a landlord
(02:47):
want a tenant to move in not having access to
that information, right, that's not going to be a good
a good starting point for the relationship. So that's really
what we're after is bringing these two sides together and
giving them access to information.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Now, when you have the owners of the buildings, and
there was the ones that didn't want to participate in
your program, they don't want to cooperate it in any way.
That led me to think, among other things, of what's
the number one complaint that renters have in New York
about the buildings they are And I'm going to assume
it's heat.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Heat is a huge one, especially in the weather that
we're having in New York City right now, record weather
exactly seventy percent of buildings in New York City rely
on the landlord to turn on the heat. We also
have really old housing stock in New York City, so
we're using steamed radiators that haven't been maintained in you know,
in decades. So this is a real challenge that even
if the heat is working in the building, your apartment
(03:39):
might feel like asauna. Right, it's one hundred degrees in
your apartment. So definitely heat is a number one complaint
amongst runters.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Now, when I would assume that New Yorkers, or the
political consciousness of New York as it's expressed during elections
and what the candidates say, they care deeply about housing
and the lack thereof, would you say that that's true.
New Yorkers want us to do something about the house situation,
and not just the ones you need it affordable house Exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
There are five and a half million renters in New
York City, sixty five percent of the city rents their home,
and there just simply isn't enough housing. And then you
also look at the affordability of the housing that does exist.
Thirty percent of New York City renter, the majority of
New York City renters spend more than thirty percent of
their income on rent. Another thirty percent of New York
(04:24):
City renter is spend over fifty percent of their income
on rent. So this is considered a very severely rent
burdened city, and it needs to be a holistic solution
that includes building housing, but also smart policy that's going
to keep renters housed in the long run.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Are you heartened by mom Donnie becoming the mayor?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
You know, I'm excited that he really focused on housing
affordability as a pillar of his campaign, and he really
spoke to the hearts of New Yorkers, which is this
is something we're struggling with every single month when we
write that rent check. And I'm excited that he seems
to be really focused on solving this problem.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I remember when I was young, I would come into
New York and we would get the Village Voice there
was no internet, and look for ass in the real
estate market. Go to the apartment, stand in line. The
line's a block long. I'm ever forget. I'm on Bleaker Street.
I walk into the studio and all the walls are
peeling off, the plasters pill you see the last inside
(05:22):
you can see the laugh inside the wood framing, inside
the walls. Everything, the paint is peeling. The thing is
a mess, and there's like a box, a wooden box
resemble the steam trunk. But then you look closer, there
was drawers there. They just had the frame unpainted and
you put a mattress on top, I guess, or some
piece of pham. And I walk up to the guy
and they wanted like back then, they wanted some you know,
(05:43):
I don't remember. It was like, let's say it's fifteen
hundred dollars for something that should have cost half that.
I look at the guy. Because of the neighborhood, obviously
there's a line of people, and I say to the guy,
you gotta be kidding me. I looked him right in
the face. You're charging fifteen hundred dollars to this. He goes.
You come back at four o'clock, it'll be gone. And
that was the reality of it. I learned right away
your apartment. How did you find your apartment?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I found my apartment by standing outside of the building
waiting for people walking in and out, asking them if
they liked the building. So my New York City rental
story not as exciting as yours. But I lived in
apartments that were not well maintained, landlords that never picked
up the phone when something went wrong. So whenever I
would apartment hunt, I wanted to do more research. I
(06:26):
would just stand outside of buildings. I would wait for
people walking in and out, saying do you live here?
How's the landlord? Should I move in? And I got
a lot of really valuable information from doing that, and
that's ultimately how I found my apartment. I got good
reviews from the people that were walking out. And this
was really the light bulb moment to start opening glow,
which is, can we build a platform to crowdsource this
rental feedback, couple it with city data, and give renters
(06:49):
their own background check on a building and landlord in
the same way that renters have to put together one
hundred page application to get an apartment in New York City.
So that's how I found my apartment. It's rent stabilized,
it's in Brooklyn. I've lived there for many years and
don't have plans to leave anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Where are they doing it better? What city are they
doing it better? Because you hear about housing crises all over,
particularly San Francisco, because of the tech world pricing all
that housing. Where's the city that you think is getting
it more right than wrong?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Oh my goodness, it's a great it's a great question.
And I think that New York is not unique in
being a city that struggles with their housing. You look
at San Francisco, you look at La you even look
at Miami that had a lot of influx of new
new renters during COVID. This is a global issue with
metropolitan cities. Even if you look at case studies in Europe,
(07:37):
which you know in Vienna or Berlin or even Paris,
cities that have really strong rent regulation, they're also struggling
to keep up with the population growth and grow the
housing stock. So I think this is something that's really universal.
It's the medium and smaller cities that are that are
doing better, like a Boston or a DC.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
How's Toronto.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Toronto also is having a lot of challenges. A lot
of their housing stock is new, brand new condos, luxury
condos where rents are just too expensive and your average
working class family can't even afford to move into the
new housing that's being constructed. So this is this is
definitely a global issue across the gambit.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I see those huge buildings on the south end of
the park. I see those enormous pencil like buildings they
put up in recent ears to the ugliest buildings I've
ever seen in New York.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
And they have their own construction issues. There was the
story of the match Tick building on Park Avenue where
the garbage shoot, the garbage velocity, yes, exactly, it was
just exploding. And you know, people spend tens of millions
of dollars on those apartments.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So one thing that comes to mind is I hear,
maybe just in my head, the wording of people who
are opposed to the work you do. They're totally market driven,
and they're going to sit there and say, why does
New York owe everybody a place to live here? Like
once we reach where we are and there's a I mean,
I'm all for rend control, stabilization, but the idea that
we owe everybody a house, why don't they just go
(09:04):
somewhere else. There's no room, it's done, it's filled up
for now, and unless they build other things, what do
you say to them?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You know, I have a very firm belief that there
are some things that are human rights, and housing is
one of them, and housing is something that permeates into
all aspects of our society. If people do not have
stable housing, they're not going to have access to education,
They're not going to have access to economic opportunity. Housing
is really the foundation to living in a successful society.
(09:36):
And you'll talk to some of these free market capitalists
that also share that belief that you should not be
able to charge whatever you want on housing, education, or healthcare.
These are things that are extremely sacred that need to
have some sort of regulation. New York City has always
been a place where people want to live, that people
move from all over the world, and we need to
(09:56):
make sure that we are accommodating the spirit and culture
and the history of New York City.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
You function, I'm sure the fees that are paid to
you by your clients, if you will, that doesn't cover
all the costs, correct, correct? So you get funding from
where we do. We're a venture back to startup, right,
and where does the money come from?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So we have monetization models, but we also have venture
capital investors that also believe in this mission of rental
transparency that has provided funding to us.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
You did a lot of things in your career, Yes,
before you did this, and I'm assuming you did fairly well.
You win all these money. My friends who do finance
or whatever it is, as a matter of treasure anything,
I just called them. They're in money. I said, yes,
just make my life simpler because I can't keep track
of all these different offshoots. But you did that. Do
you miss it or do you still do it? Are
(10:43):
you still an entrepreneur in the way that you were
before opening clip?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I am an entrepreneur full time with Open a Glue,
and I do miss my prior stints. I worked in banking,
I worked in venture capital, investing in startups, working on
a trading floor. My first job out of college was
working in Wall Street. That's what brought me to New
York City to begin with. And there's something fun about
the pace and also just the learning. Right When you
(11:08):
work in that type of environment, you're reading the news.
You're reading about what's going on in all corners of
all corners of the world. And I loved that about
the job. But I do that now in my work
with Openeglo. I love staying on top of what is
going on in our city, what is going on in
city politics, what is going on in the housing space,
what is on renters' minds, and taking all of that
(11:30):
knowledge to build a platform that hopefully is going to
make New York City better in the long run. What
we're seeing now, just a few years into building Open Agloo,
is that landlords are changing their behavior. They're actually taking
care of their buildings because they're realizing that the transparency
that we're putting in, the spotlight we're putting on them
means they're losing clients. They're not signing leases as fast
(11:51):
as they once were because renters are looking at the
reviews and saying, well, I don't want to pay four
thousand dollars a month to live here. You don't take
care of your renters that you have right now. So
we're starting to see that impact, and that's really what
I'm excited to continue to focus on.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Not in all things, but I tend to view when
I was reading about you and your work, I tend
to view it like other things, where you're doing jobs
the government ought to be doing. You're providing a service,
and you're providing a reality to people that is a
business the government might have been in to provide transparency,
and so.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Farth transparency and also informing renters about their rights. So
rent stabilization is a big policy that impacts millions of
New Yorkers. There's nearly a million rent stabilized apartments, and
we ask renters when they're reviewing their landlords and buildings,
do you live in a stabilized apartment?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yes? No?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Not sure? Thirty five percent of our users check not sure,
and that breaks my heart. That means that there are
hundreds of thousands of renters who probably live in a
stabilized apartment and don't even know it. And having this
type of protection means your rent increases are limited and
you are entitled to a renewal. The landlord cannot ask
you to leave. So big mission at O BINEGLO has
(13:00):
been sharing this information, trying to trying to get the
work done. Believe absolutely, it's devastating when you when you
think about the old school New Yorkers and we all
know one or two of them that are living in
a five hundred dollars rent controlled apartment on the Upper
West Side. Those are because those renters knew their rights
right and they stayed in that apartment for their entire lives,
and as a result, they're able to stay and live
(13:23):
in the city comfortably, and I want to make sure
as many renters know about those rights as possible.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Open igloo co founder and CEO Alia Mohammad. If you
enjoy conversations about the heart of New York City, check
out my episode with WNYC's Brian Larra.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
People have said to me, oh, your show is the
opposite of Rush Limbaugh. And it's not because he's conservative
and I'm liberal. It's because he makes no secret about
the shows about what he thinks. For me, I have opinions.
I sometimes state my opinions, or I sometimes frame questions
(14:03):
in a leading way that suggests an opinion. But the
show is not about what I think. So if I'm
expressing a point of view, which I'm allowed to do
on the show, but if I do express an opinion,
it's in the context of, Okay, this is what I think. Now,
everybody else who agrees or disagrees, come on in and
(14:24):
let's have a meaningful conversation about it.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
To hear more of my conversation with Brian Lehrer, go
to Here's Thething dot org. After the break, Alia discusses
her hopes for New York City housing plans under Mayor Mumdani.
(14:52):
I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is here's the thing. As
the affordable housing crisis swells across the United States, New
York City leads the way with its unaffordable market for renters.
The newly elected Mayor Zoran Mamdani aims to freeze the
rents on the one million rent stabilized apartments in New
(15:13):
York City. As the terms are often conflated, I wanted
Ali Mohammad to explain the difference between rent controlled and
rent stabilized.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So rent stabilized is typically buildings that were built before
nineteen seventy four that have six or more units, and
rent controlled are very specific units that were built before
nineteen forty seven, where there I might get the years
wrong one or two, but built before nineteen forty seven
(15:43):
where there has been a continuous tenant since nineteen seventy one.
So if you've lived in your apartment since nineteen seventy
one and the building was built before nineteen forty seven,
you might have a rent control department. Now, there's only
about sixteen thousand rent control departments left in New York City,
and that's because when that continuous tenant who most likely
passes away that rent control department converts into a rent
(16:06):
stabilized apartment. So that's just a different regulation status, but
they have many of the similar protections that the rent
control departments are going to be. Those eighty dollars apartments
in Manhattan, and the rent stabilized apartments are not necessarily affordable,
and I think this is a common myth in New York.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
City as well.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So rent stabilized is just giving you protections against really
crazy rent increases, and it protects you against the landlord saying, oh,
I'm not renewing you. You have to leave. That's all
rent stabilization does, but it doesn't mean affordable. The most
expensive rent stabilized apartment on record is fifty thousand dollars
a month per month, and that is because over the
years there have been these tax abatement programs. For example,
(16:44):
where developers build a building they don't have to pay
property taxes for thirty forty years if they make the
building rent stabilized. So it's still very common that you
will see, you know, these units in Hudson Yards that
are rent stabilized, but you do have those protections against
large rent increases.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Now many many people come in I'm talking about the
mayor's race in Mondani and they come in and they
have a lot of hopes and they advertise a lot
about what they intend to do. What do you think
that's achievable? From Mom, Donnie, what would you like to
see him do?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I would love to see his plan of building two
hundred thousand affordable units in New York City where they
go all across the five boroughs. No neighborhood is going
to be immune from getting affordable units built. And this
has been one of the biggest debates in New York City. Oh,
we don't want an affordable housing unit building in Soho.
We don't want affordable housing built on the Upper West Side.
(17:35):
We really need to come together as a community.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
See a lot of affordable housing on the Upper West
Side now as it is, there's a lot of housing authority.
I lived on a I used to live in the
El Dorado for twenty years and in that West nineties
area there was a lot of public housing.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
There is, but there's not enough. When you look at
how the city has grown, and the vacancy rate in
New York City is sub two percent, There's not enough housing.
So I would like to see those two hundred thousand
units built all across the city in the places where
it's going to have the most impact. Right now, there's
challenges and need to make sure if you build those homes,
there's infrastructure to support it, schools, transportation, all of those things.
(18:12):
But if he can really execute on this vision, the
city is going to be in a much better place
than when it started.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
You look at the city and you say, going in
across all five burroughs, and I'm assuming there's some watchdogs
groups like your own similar where the mission is to
locate where more likely could that go? You either have
to identify a insignificant amount of open land that's there
to build houses on within reason, or you're going to
(18:40):
tear something down. When Columbia decided to expand their campus
and they went and bought all these muffler shops or
whatever was up there adjacent to them and ripped everything down,
ripped down like a whole block, yep. And they're going
to do like the wall and have more wall and everything,
you know, their campus, their private campus. Where do you
think the housing can be built quickest?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, it's a great question. Even you know to your
comment about Columbia, they have a very dark history when
it comes to their expansion and displacing communities. I think
we need to be really intentional that if we're going
to be aggressive with this plan to build housing, it
needs to make sure it's taking into consideration the wants
of the community. Give you an example in Bedstide, there
(19:21):
was a project to build an affordable housing building in
a parking lot beside a church, and there were protests
and people were upset about this. How could you build
this beside the church. We weren't tearing down the church
or anything like that. This was a vacant parking lot
that hadn't been used. And there are places like that
all across the city. My friends and family hate me
because every time we're walking somewhere in New York, I'm like,
that could be housing. That could be housing. This could
(19:42):
be housing. It's abandoned parking lots, even in Manhattan. So
I think that there's a lot of opportunities to build
the housing that we need without displacing or changing, you know,
the culture and facade of the neighborhoods that we hold.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Dear, you're doing that work to your knowledge, now of
identifying where the housing can go. Is there a group
you work with or admire or are aware of who.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Is Yeah, you know, citing that city council members, there's
a lot of city council members that are taking this
task really seriously. One or two Tosa, for example, he's
a city council member in BADSTI who was behind that
project close to the church. And I would really encourage
other council members to follow suit and identify those development
(20:23):
areas in their community and do it in a way
with public input, of course, but with a sense of urgency,
because we don't have five years to just argue and
debate what color the brick should be. We need housing yesterday.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, in that way, that real estate is always someone's equity.
There's a town I work in in a film festival culture,
and there's a movie theater there which does okay in
the captive summer months. This is out on Long Island.
The guy that owns the theater, he's never going to
sell it to us, never we've begged him. We've gotten
people with a lot of money, some rich monsters of
(20:59):
our activities. We thought we could work it out. Had
a number that made sense for everybody. But it didn't
matter what the number was, he was. And you always
realize that there are people out there, a huge number
of them, who are never selling their land or their property.
This is of a value them they think is only
going to go up. Is that a problem you come
up with in New York.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know, it's a good point with the theater example.
Real estate is emotional. In New York City. It is emotional,
and anybody who's bought or sold a home knows this.
People think their houses are worth way more than it
actually is because of the childhood memories you have from that.
It's just not true. I would say in New York
City you do see a lot of buildings change hands.
(21:36):
I don't think you have the same stubbornness when it
comes to real estate because it is a business. But
the investors that have done the best are the ones
that have bought and held and never sold. And this
is where you see the most success in New York
City real estate portfolios. You bought a couple buildings in
the fifties, bought a couple buildings in the sixties, and
you kept just building the portfolio. So maybe there is
a little bit of stubbornness. But the buildings in New
(21:58):
York City are already residential units, right, so you don't
have this. You know, the garage owner won't sell because
we want to build housing. I don't think that's true.
I think a lot of those businesses they do end
up selling to developers and getting those buildings built.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Co founder and CEO of open iglu Alia Mohammad. If
you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be sure
to follow Here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify
or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back,
Mohammad tells us how to find a rent stabilized apartment
(22:35):
in New York City. I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is
here's the thing. When open igloo first began in twenty twenty,
its primary goal was to bring transparency to the New
(22:57):
York City rental market help for renters. Open Igloo provides
a platform for tenants to review their landlords and buildings.
By twenty twenty two, open igloo was listed as one
of the top one hundred apps in the App Store,
and since then has grown to help millions of renters
(23:17):
in the Five Boroughs with such success. I was curious
how Alia plans to grow open Igloo beyond her original mission.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I got asked all the time, when is open agglu
gonna expand beyond even New York City. So we started
the platform to help renters do research, and we've really
evolved into a platform where people can find an apartment.
And when I say that, I mean do the research,
find the apartment, schedule the tour, apply for the apartment,
pay sign all within a digital and transparent platform, because
(23:50):
what we commonly hear from New York City renters is
the scams. Okay, I found the apartment, I scheduled the tour,
the broker ignored me, never showed up. Or I applied
for the apartment but there were fifty other applications and
I didn't get it, or there was a bidding war,
or it was a made up scam to begin with.
So these are the challenges we really want to tackle
for renters and help them not just during the due
(24:10):
diligence phase, but really throughout their entire rental journey, and
not just for their first apartment, but for their second
apartment and their third apartment. I think the thing that
always frustrated me was Why is it so hard to
get an apartment the second apartment. I just already have
one year of rent payment history. I'm a good tenant,
everything's good. Why do we need to go through the
same application system all over again. So I think if
(24:32):
we really scale open Igloo to make it this digital platform,
we can make it a lot easier for renters all
across the country.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
How much does an organization like yours at least attempt
to locate housing for people outside the Five boroughs? You
want to say to them, here's some things that are
more affordable for you in New Jersey, in Westchester Lower Westchester.
Are there areas where the City of New York could
be cooperating with other cities and other states in terms
(25:00):
of building affordable housing outside of the.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Five borough Absolutely, I mean you've definitely seen this happen
with New Jersey, a lot of New Yorkers moving to
Jersey City, Hoboken, even deeper into Jersey be definitely more
affordable in New York City. But also the quality. Right
you talk to anybody who lives in Hoboken, They're like,
I've got a pool, and I got a gym, and
i got a rooftop and I'm paying twenty two hundred
dollars a month, which is considered cheap to your average
New Yorker who pays for rent here. But I think
(25:24):
there's definitely room to collaborate with other cities. But what
I would really like to see the city focus on
is the Five Boroughs, because there's so much work to
be done here in the outer Boroughs, in the Bronx,
in Staten Island. There are opportunities all across the Five
Boroughs to build more quality, affordable housing for people who
want to live here. Right, And I hear this all
the time. If you can't afford to live in New York,
(25:46):
just go somewhere else? What about New Yorkers? What about
people who were born and raised here and their families
are here, and their kids' schools are here. It's not
as simple as saying, just move to New Jersey. There's
twenty two hundred dollars apartments over there. We really need
to solve it within our our own four walls.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
How does somebody find a rent stabilized apartment in New York?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
So funny you ask. So you shared earlier about the
Village Voice having to circle classifieds, and you know trying
to know somebody who knows somebody to get your hands
on one.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Of these apartments.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
This was the old way of finding rent stabilized apartments
in New York City. And there's a new way that
we've been really focused on at Open a glu, which
is identifying where these vent say they.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Were previous rather than old. So don't say that's the
old way, it's the old way.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
To sorry, the former way, the previous way. Thank you, Yes,
you're welcome. I apologize please.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
So now we you.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Know, we really want to try and come up with
a digital and transparent way of identifying these apartments. So
in New York City, every single landlord is required to
register their rent stabilized apartments with the state, and we've
taken that data and we've put it on open a
Glue so that you can go and you can search
for I want two bedrooms in this neighborhood at this budget,
and I want it to be rent stabilized, and we
(26:55):
will show you all the units that are available that
are in buildings with those stabilized apartments. There was a
recent law that passed, the Rental Transparency Act and went
into effect just this month that requires landlords to post
notices in their common areas if there are rent stabilized
apartments in the building. And this law was to try
and help renters who are already living in the building
to know if maybe they have a rent stabilized apartment
(27:16):
and know their rights, et cetera. But it's not really
that helpful to people who are apartment hunting because you
don't go door to door and sort of poke your
hat into these vestibules. So this is one of the
ways that you can find a stabilized apartment is going
to opening.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
What's your evaluation to the extent as it relates to
your work, as it relates to people trying to locate
even remotely affordable housing. About the real estate companies in
this city, do they I mean, do real estate companies
when people go and say to them, I want to
get in an apartment and you sa, how much I
have to spend and you're like a normal average person
(27:47):
who wants to be able to spend twenty five or
thirty percent of your monthly income on the rent? Are
they laughing in their faces? And now do the real
estate community community they don't get it sometimes?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Right, you definitely have conversations with those brokers that say, oh,
you're what you're looking for is completely unrealistic, Like I
can't help you, it's not out there. Yeah, your budget
is less than two thousand dollars, like good luck, move
out of state. And you know our answer is yes,
it is very difficult to find those cheap apartments, but
it's not impossible. You need to be intentional, you need
(28:19):
to be focused, and you need to leverage the tools
that are at your disposal, everything from our platform to
the affordable housing lotteries to you know, staying close with
your uncle so that you can inherit the apartment.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
When I was going to school in Washington, which was
the first city I lived in. When I was in
DC to go to gw and they were saying, how
DC was the opposite of New York. We're in DC,
all the wealth was in the center of town, and
you lived in the suburbs going outward to Bethesda and
Silver Spraying and so forth, and the Virginia suburbs, and
that New York was the opposite of that. All the
(28:51):
wealth is in the heart of the city, and everybody
who doesn't have any that has less money and less
economic opportunity to live outside and the other boroughs. And
I'm wondering, is there a bor you think is the
most ready to be redeveloped now with affordable housing the Bronx.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Perhaps the Bronx definitely, but that comes with a lot
of challenges. So we've seen projects open up in the
Bronx that aren't truly affordable.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
You look at the area median income for some neighborhoods
in the Bronx forty fifty thousand dollars a year household
incomes and the apartments are being priced at thirty one
hundred thirty five hundred four thousand. Because these brand new,
beautiful luxury developments. So it's not just enough to build
the housing. The Bronx got a lot of new housing
over the past five years. Problem is, no one can
(29:37):
afford to live in them. So this is something that
we really need to get to the Crux to But
the Bronx is a big burrow and there's a lot
of development opportunities there. My fear is that if we
continue to build these luxury apartments, we're not actually going
to solve anything.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Now there are unscrupulous obviously landlords. I've had a couple
of not many, And we hear about people who don't
get their deposits back. What remedies do they have available
to them.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
If they don't get their deposit back from their landlord.
It's definitely something that happens in New York City. We
actually track data about this at open igloo. The good
thing is that seventy percent of renters report getting their
complete security deposits back at the end of their lease,
and it's a thirty percent that don't. And I'm sure
there's a percentage of those that maybe there was something
that they did break and something should have been retained.
(30:23):
But if a landlord unjustly keeps a security deposit, you
can file a complaint with the Attorney General or you
can take them to Small Claims court. Within fourteen days
of your moveout, and this is a law in New
York City, within fourteen days of your move out, the
landlord has to send you an itemized receipt of why
they are keeping or retaining the deposit. And if they
don't send that to you, they essentially forfeit it back
(30:44):
to you. So those are the past to try and
get it back. At open Igluo, we really want renters
to do research on the landlord before they move in.
Do they have a reputation for not returning security deposits?
And this is data that we track and display on
our platform so that you can avoid those places and
hopefully avoid of that more of.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Them that you want to admit too, that we want
to imagine in terms of that, don't give them their
money back.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Absolutely, yeah, definitely, it's it's a common practice. I'm happy
that it's not as common. It's not the majority of cases,
but there's definitely landlords that are notorious for never giving
security deposits back. What renters will commonly do, and this
is you know, not legal, is they will use the
security deposit to pay for their last month's rent and
then they don't have to deal with this, you know,
(31:25):
potentially confrontanial arrangement. I sort of have a controversial take
on this where I tell renters do not use your
security deposit as your last month's rent, because there is
another law that says you were supposed to earn interest
on your security deposit. So if you use your security
deposit to pay last month's rent, you're essentially forfeiting the
interest that your security deposit earned over that however long
(31:47):
you lived in the apartment. So that's that's my advice
to renters, is you know, collect that interest. I know
it might be little, but if you live somewhere for
five ten years, it adds up.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
My first department in New York that I bought was
a condo, and then I moved into the Eldorado. I
went from a condo to a co op. And now
I'm in a building that's a condo. And I have
been told by the brokers we've dealt with and those
people who've tried to make an offer for us in
our building that there's much more of an attraction toward
condos now than co ops because a lot of people
don't want to pull their pants down and show all
(32:17):
their finances and everything else, like none of your business,
you know, exactly. So my building is lower Fifth Avenue,
and all that east of Fifth Avenue to Broadway area
near Washington Square, all that area is mostly co ops,
and the ones that are condos are thriving. Yes, you know,
everybody wants to come and live at a condo because
they don't want to deal with the board. And we've
(32:40):
had a lot of people connumbering our doorbell and ask
us to buy our apartment.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Don't get me started on the co ops. And it's
one of those things, Alec that I tell renters never
rent in a co op.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Let's get you started. Go ahead, let me start this rant.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
You know, co ops are great, they're beautiful, right, some
of them are beautifully maintained. But when you're a renter
in a co op, it's difficult enough to be an
owner in a car, right, But if you're a renter
and a co op, it's a whole different story. Why
because you are not protected against a lot of things
that renters are protected against in normal buildings. So i'll
give you an example. In New York City, the maximum
(33:12):
that a landlord can charge on a rental application is
twenty dollars simple credit check, background check, et cetera. In
a co op. There is no cap in condos as well,
So co ops can charge one thousand dollars for a
rental application two thousand dollars, and they will. And it's
essentially this way of discriminating against renters, to say we
don't like renters here, and if you can't afford the
non refuehightory, yes, if you can't afford the non refundable
(33:35):
two thousand dollars application, we don't want you here. And
I think there's something that's got something's got to change there.
Even term limits, right, A lot of co ops have
rules that an owner can only sublet their unit for
two years at a time. So as a renter, you
move in, you're just kind of getting settled. You've already
paid all of these fees, and two years later you
have to leave because of board rules. So I think
(33:55):
from a renter's perspective, living and renting in a co
op is a no no for me.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
What do you know about the air conditioning situation in
New York that's coming up.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I have been talking about this for years and years.
So in New York City, there's very strict heat laws.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
New York City landlords are legally obligated to make sure
that their renters have working in sufficient heat because, as
we're seeing, winter can be dangerous and people do die
in their apartments, especially vulnerable elderly New Yorkers. There's a
law to propose something similar for air conditioning. Anyone that
has spent a summer in New York City knows how
disgustingly hot it can be, but also dangerously hot.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So a lot of New Yorkers they live without air conditioning,
and this law would propose that landlords have those same
obligations to air conditioning as they do to heat. Now,
they wouldn't necessarily be obligated to pay for the air
conditioning the electrical bill, for example, from running the air conditioner,
but making sure that the apartment is outfitted with an
air conditioner. But in New York City, for example, every
(34:53):
single summer, cooling centers open up all around the city.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Are cooling buses, Yes, you're.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
The cooling buses. They have doing the same thing right now.
During this cold spurt, warming buses all of its buses
to warming buses. Hospitals turn into warming centers twenty four
to seven. And this is crazy. It means that people
live in apartments where they're not getting sufficient heat or
they're not being able to stay cool, and they actually
have to go to one of these public buildings.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
That's talk about the lottery. It's talking about the lottery.
What is your assessment of the lottery? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Interesting, So New York City has something called the Affordable
Housing Lottery. So a lot of these new construction buildings
that go up, a percentage of the units need to
be allocated for the Affordable Housing Lottery and they are
given to New Yorkers that meet certain income restrictions. Right,
it's been a very successful program. There have been hundreds
of thousands of New Yorkers that have been placed in
(35:44):
these units, but it also has some criticisms. Right the
time it takes to get placed. If you make even
a penny more than what the band is, you don't
get the apartment. Also, some of these bands are allocated
to people who make one hundred and fifty one hundred
and sixty five thousand dollars a year, which by New
York standards doesn't mean you're a very wealthy person. But
(36:04):
it leaves a lot of questions as to why do
we need an affordable housing lottery to house people that
are making six figures? What about people that make lower incomes?
So a lot of criticisms of the program. There was
a recent change, for example, where a person that got
placed in an affordable housing lottery, if they moved out,
that unit used to have to go back into the lottery.
And what would end up happening is that unit would
(36:25):
stay empty for months and months. And they've changed the
law temporarily so that people can just apply directly, first come,
per serve, so we can get that turn happened a
little bit faster.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
This takes me back to the earliest days of my
young days in New York. My uncle lived in his apartment,
him and my father. They were from Fort Green, the
old Fort Grain, But I grew up and spent a
lot of time there as a child with my father's parents,
and my uncle lived in Manhattan for years and got
in an apartment of rent, stabilized apartment with very modest rent.
People don't understand that in New York, with some modest exceptions,
(36:58):
whether it's a terrace or a comunity garden, whatever, then
in New York your home is pretty modest. And in California,
you go out and the sun's on you and you're
going to grow your tomatoes or whatever the hell. But
in New York, you've got to open the door and
close the door behind you when it's your home and
your way. A home in New York is precious, and
I've always been taken with that idea of you know,
(37:18):
you close that door and you have peace and you
have security and I think the work that you're doing
is amazing. I think it's amazing. Thank you very much.
And it's just for all the downtown work you did.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Yes, I'm making up for my bad past.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Thank you so much for doing this with us.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Thank you for having me. It was such an amazing conversation.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
My thanks to open igloos Alia Mohammad. This episode was
recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. We're produced
by Kathleen Russo, Zach McNeice, and Victoria de Martin. Our
engineer is Isaac Kaplin Woolner. Our social media manager is
Danielle Gingwich. I'm Alec Bald and here's the thing is
(38:01):
brought to you by iHeart Radio
Host
Alec Baldwin
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!