April 13, 2026 • 39 mins
A girl showed up at a town near Bristol in 1817 wearing a turban, and everyone went nuts.
SOURCES:
"The Caraboo Hoax," Margaret Russell
John Matthew Gutch's narrative
English Eccentrics, by Edith Sitwell
"Devonshire Characters and Strange Events"
"British Performances of Java," Matthew Isaac Cohen
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Hoax, a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Folks.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's a huge.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
When us Evil Blood to see you there.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Hoax, a podcast about the lies we wish
were true and truths that sound like lies.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm the ghost of Danish Worts and.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm the evil twin of Lizzie Logan. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
So Lizzie, this is a rare time in this podcast
where I am going to be talking about a hoax
that I have covered on Noble Blood my other.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Podcast, Self Plagiarisms.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Self Plagiarism. I did go back to the same well
of research. But the reason that I wanted to talk
about it is because I feel like sometimes the format
of Noble Blood one this is just a quintessential hoax
and it is delightful. But also I think the form
of Noble Blood is like a scripted show with a
one single narratives sometimes means I can't explore things in
(01:03):
as wide reaching away as I want to.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It lacks a little Lizzy.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I mean, that's actually what I was gonna say. I'm
not on Noble Blood.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Really, I was gonna say it doesn't have Lizzy's take
on it, and you know, I would never. I don't
really often pause Noble Blood episodes to be like I
always take the historical consensus. But I never paused and like, oh,
this source is this, and this source says that, and
I mean, very rarely do I do that.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
So I am excited to.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Talk a little bit about the broader historical context around
a hoax called Princess Cariboo.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Okay, great, I think I've listened to this Noble Blood episode,
but I think it was a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It was a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I have a vision of myself listening to it at
the gym, and it's been so long since I went
to on Ghim, and I'm like, it couldn't have been
this year, and it couldn't have been last year.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
It was, in fact, a very long time ago. Okay,
So we're going to start the story on April Good Friday.
Some people say it took place at Thursday before, but
most of the story takes place Good Friday, eighteen seventeen. Okay,
so Frankenstein's about to be written. I think Bridgerton is
probably happening around this time. Anatomy a love story if
(02:16):
you're thinking about costumes and what's happening.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
In England at this time, and we're in England. We
are in England.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
We're in Bristol, which is the far west of England,
like almost whales, okay. And a woman arrives at the
small town of Almondsbury, which is right outside Bristol, and
she's wearing what are described as exotic clothes, which in
this case just means like a black turbin a head
covering a black gown with like a muslin frill at
the neck and a red and black shawl.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
To me, looking pretty cool outfit pictures of it.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
It kind of looks like a like a stereo, like
a child dressing like a flamenco dancer.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Oh funny, Like I'm not an accurate reflection of that,
but it's like a girl like putting a scarf on
and being like I'm Spanish, yes, like a child.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
And she has a bundle and this is important, carrying soap.
Just a few haypennies and a counterfeit sixpence and that's
all she has. And this young woman goes to the
house of a cobbler first and talks.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
To him and his wife.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
But she's not speaking English, just sort of an unintelligible language,
and she mimes that she's hungry. They give her some food,
and then she mimes like, oh, can I sleep here,
and they're like no, yeah, no, no no. And the
cobbler's wife takes this woman to the Overseer of the poor,
who's a person who's in charge of what It sounds
like he's like the one who levies taxes on people
(03:38):
and then manages those taxes to manage poorhouses and distribute food, money,
and clothing. Feels like the overseer of the poor is
exactly he should be overseeing this situation.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's who you call.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
And the overseer, though also pawnts her off on someone else.
He goes to like the local magistrate, sort of the
mayor equivalent of this town. Samuel Wirrel and his American
born wife Elizabeth to like figure out this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Two questions, how old does this woman appear to be?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And like what color is she? Young? Pretty? You're asking
like race, like.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Just appearance wise, because if she can't talk, then she
can't really explain her ethnicity, but just like like purely
on the surface, so again it means she could talk.
In the nineteenth century, our understanding of race is different
than it is now. She has dark hair and dark eyes. Okay,
she is in fact like a white person, but that
(04:42):
she's also sort of just like swarthy. Okay, so she
doesn't seem English.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Maybe doesn't seem English. And again she's not dressed like
an English woman. She's speaking another language. And she's a
poor beggar woman. But this is also a case where
I do feel like pretty privileged really does exist. Oh yeah,
where this isn't just like an old crone. This is
like a very pretty young woman, and I think that
makes a difference in the story. And so as you're
(05:07):
listening to the story and how people are treating her,
I think the fact that she is pretty makes a difference,
oh totally, which is just an unfortunate reality of the
world then as it is now, I feel like fundamentally
there was a big to do. I think the equivalent
to the stories, there's a big to do because there
was a very handsome convict at one point.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Do you remember this, oh, like yeah, the hot felon,
the hot felon, And there's a whole account that's like
mug Shouty's yeah, like bugshot of like Shouty's.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I think fundamentally, if you see an unhoused person or
a convict, a felon who is very conventionally attractive, something
in you is like, well, that person shouldn't be there,
they should be doing pilates.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, oh yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Jim Gaffigan has a whole bit about how actors are
way too good looking to be believable, like in certain
roles where he talks about like halle Berry and Monster's Ball,
He's like, she played that poverty stricken woman.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
The whole time.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I was like, why doesn't she just become a model?
She could be the next sale Berry.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
So basically they bring her to this magistrate to figure
out what her deal is, and she acts pretty unusually.
She sleeps only on the floor of the room, even
though there's a bed. And then when they bring her
to like a local inn called the Bowl, their botanical
prints are very popular around this time, like on the wall,
and she sees a botanical print of a pineapple and
(06:37):
says nanas, which is nanas are like is a word
for pineapple and Indonesian but also a lot of other
different languages, and people are like, oh, she knows what
the exotic fruit, pineapple is and then they show her
pictures of China and she gets like very animated and excited,
even though they don't know what language she's speaking. So
they're like, Okay, maybe this woman came from Asia. So again,
(06:59):
sam Old Worrel is the magistrate of this town, but
he doesn't want to be associated with a counterfeitter because
they had found a counterfeit coin in her purse, and
he's like, I don't want to get in trouble for this.
I'm going to have this woman be tried for vagrancy
in Bristol because he thinks she's just a vagrant.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I don't want to get in trouble for being around
this person who did this crime.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, it's my job.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Well you should turn her into the authorities, all right.
I will also say different sources sometimes characterize Samuel Warrel
very ungenerously, like people are like he's a drunk and
a cruel man, and I take those with the grain
of salt, because a lot of contemporary sources just don't
comment on his personality. And I think if you are
embellishing this story, you want to like add a little
(07:50):
spice to the side. Characters and you're like, ah, well,
he sent her to be tried for vagrancy. What a
cruel man, presumably a drunkard. So you might see when
researching this story, might see things like that. I just
am like, I don't know. He didn't want to get
involved with this strange woman acting in a weird way.
But she is briefly imprisoned, and it's while she's in
(08:11):
Bristol that she meets a Portuguese sailor and sometimes in
some sources he's named Manuel Ennis, but I've also seen
Manuel Inesso, and he says that he actually understands the
language that she's speaking, and he's able to translate and
says that according to this woman, her name is Princess Caribou.
She's from the island of Javasu in the Indian Ocean,
(08:33):
right off of Sumatra. She was kidnapped from her homeland
by pirates, managed to escape by jumping overboard, and that's
how she ended up in Bristol. And from this translation
of the Portuguese sailor, we learned that she's the daughter
of a Chinese person of rank and a male woman,
which is a indigenous tribe to this group, like an
(08:56):
indigenous ethnic group in what we now call the Indonesian Islands.
Javasu again located off the coast of Sumatra.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
But I'm going to do a.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Brief spoiler for people who maybe are like, I don't
know where Javasu is. That's not a real place. Oh yeah,
it doesn't sound real. It well sounds kind of like Java, yes,
and Sumatra. But you're like, okay, sort of put them together. Yeah,
but it's not real. But what's happening right now in
England is the exotic is very exciting.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
And so this woman is let out of prison and
the worlds, drunk and cruel, are not take her back
to their house. And this is where like two months
of the best summer we ever had started. So she
is staying with the worlds in this small town and
it is just like.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Do they keep this Portuguese guy around to continue translating? No,
it seems like he's really key to this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
By this point, she's able to communicate enough, okay, And
I think part of like her childlike inability to articulate
things is part of her I'm gonna say air quotes charm.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I also again want to be like she's very pretty.
She has this sort of childlike approach to things, and
I think that's why people get very excited about her.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
There's a great YouTube video that as far as I know,
this YouTube video is what coined the term, but it's
a term that people use now to describe this character
trope in movies mostly born sexy, yesterday born sexy.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That's exactly what she is.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Where it's like Leelu in The Fifth Element or a
little bit Madison and Splash, Yeah, or Bella in a
Poor Things, where it's usually a woman who has the
body of a hot woman and the brain of a child,
not for creepy reasons, but for like sci fi reasons.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, and so she's very helpless and then she's also
very sex for.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Some reason, my brain also goes to like mermaid things.
So I'm going to like, you know, the woman in
Splash Yeah, like in Aquamarine, Yes, that girl where it's
just like I'm just so helpless and silly and naive
with my strange custom Yeah, like how do this work? Yeah,
it's othering a foreigner, but it's not racist. If she's
(11:21):
a mermaid.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
It's infantilizing a grown woman so that you can still
want to fuck her, and also she has no agency.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
That is exactly what's happening with this woman. So a
ton of visitors are coming through Almondsbury because they're all
so excited to see her. The Worls are very excited
that they have a royal visitor. And Samuel Wirrel is
actually starting a private bank at this time, and he
feels like the publicity and sort of the esteem of
having a royal guest is like bolstering his local business.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Surely the answer to this question will be no.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
But does anyone have the idea of like, oh, we
should probably get her home.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
No, Okay, she's an England now, I wonderful. She's a
princess where she's from. Why does she want to leave
with these people? Because maybe because she's having a freaking blast.
She's a princess, I know.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So there's all these anecdotes because a few I'm not
to jump ahead, but newspapers get word of her and
we'll write all these anecdotes. So a lot of our
sources for these unusual things she does come from newspapers.
But according to one source, this gentleman who had visited
Malae in recent years brought out a souvenir sword and caribou.
The princess gets very excited and recognizes it as belonging
(12:40):
to her country, and they even say she tries to
grab at it, but quote from prudence, it was denied her,
which is very born sexy.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yesterday it's like, well, she can't have a night, uh, and.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Then she but she placed the dagger to her right side,
where according to this gentleman who had visited Malley, the
Malay people wore it, which quote confirmed to this gentleman
that she perfectly understood the custom, though not the language
of that country, because she is not speaking malee okay,
she is in fact not speaking any language that anyone
(13:13):
really recognizes. There's a sort of a local expert, like
a polymath named doctor Wilkinson, who shows her this book
Edmund Fry's Pantagraphia, which has is like a manual of
different languages, and she picks hers, which he identifies as
one called Reijng, which is I believe spoken in Sumatra.
(13:34):
And this doctor also identifies that she has strange markings
on her head, scars that could only have come he says,
from Eastern medicine practices, some sort of barbaric surgery.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Wow, okay, so she's from like all over.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, she has some strange scars on her head and
we're like, we don't know what that is. They send
samples of her language to Oxford to be like, do
you know what this is? And they're like no, so
no one quite. I mean this doctor Wilkinson identified what
he thought the language was, but no one quite knows
what she's saying, even though some of the words she's
(14:10):
using are specific to Indonesian languages.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Did you in middle school read The Island of the
Blue Dolphins.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yes, I love that book. It's like the real version
of this, real version of Island of the Blue Dolphins. Well, no,
the Island of the Blue Dolphins is based on a
real lady. What a woman's whole family left her behind
on an island. I think they all died or something.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And then she was like the if I'm remembering fourth
grade correctly, she got separated from her family or whatever
and became the last person in the world who spoke
her language.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Okay, I did not realize Island of the Blue Dolphin
was inspired by a real story.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Can we very quickly check if I'm write yes.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yes, the lone woman of San Nicholas Island left the
one for eighteen years.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, yeah, this woman crazy again. No one, it's it's
hard to get to the place that she came from.
No one really understands the language. But they're having just
a fun summer with Okay, she's doing She swims naked.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Hot hot.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
She practices archery and is apparently very good at it. Okay, good, badass,
badass cooks a chicken curry, performs a war dance with
a gong, and prays on the roof to a god
that she calls a La tala, which is also a
name for a god in a bunch of a few
other languages.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Allah is yeah, most great. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
She also declines to drink alcohol. She brings one or
both of her hands to her forehead to greet people.
She quote bathed more than more often than was the custom,
and we're a shawl while praying. They also just put
her in exotic clothing and have her portrait painted and
throw a ball for her in her honor and bath.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Kind of like et. Yeah, but they're all having a
great time. I mean, what to do next?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
So this doctor doctor Wilkinson, who examined her head and
examined her language, published her findings. There's a Telegraph article
written about her.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
This is you know, June.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
At this point, one of the war el servants, allegedly
who's a Greek Man, doesn't think she's legit, and he
decides to test her, and in the middle of the
night he walks around and shouts fire to see if
she would react, because that would prove that she knew English.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
But she didn't.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
This story, over the course of about eight weeks, gains
in popularity. I think I understand why, which is kind
of I don't want to get ahead of myself. But
the reason people are so interested in this story, I
think is kind of the main fascination here. But this
story becomes so well known that this woman named missus Neil,
(16:55):
who runs a boarding house in Bristol, hears about it
and sees a photograph photographs he's a drawing of this
young woman in the newspaper, and she recognizes the picture
of her published in the Bristol Journal and goes to
inform the worlds that, oh, this girl that you're calling
Princess Caribou, I know her. She's a former servant and
(17:16):
her name is Mary Wilcox and when she lived in
the boarding house that I ran, she just like would
sometimes wear a turban and do a made up language
for fun.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I'm obsessed with her. I love her so much. This
is incredible. I love how much she has committed to
the best.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
She's She's really the patron saint of committing to the bit.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I mean, this is like Nathan Fielder wishes like, this
is jury duty, but uno, reverse Uh, this is.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Just her turning everyone else into the jury duty.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
She's just pranking. I mean, the greatest character actress of
our time.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I do.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I want to point out, and we'll get to this
a little later. She is exploiting in other people of
different races. Yeah, to be like a slight buzzkill here,
she's not just doing like a quirky character, but she
is the queen of committing to the bit.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I'm gonna not give her a pass for being of
her time, but I'm gonna contextualize her as being of
all of the things that people are doing.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yes, in the pre Civil war world, I.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Realize this is in England. Yeah, this to be does
not rank among the atrocities.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
So not the atrocities to people of color, and I
also want to point out I don't think the problem
is as much with her as it is everyone around her.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, if they didn't want to believe in racist stereotypes,
there would have been no stereotypes for her to exploit.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
That is it.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
It's everyone around her delighted that she is indulging exactly
the racist stereotype that they.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Want to enjoy. What a grifter?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, So who is Mary Wilcox. She was born we're
in seventeen ninety one or ninety two in Devonshire. Her
father was a cobbler. We don't know anything about her mother.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Is that why she went to a cobbler house? Oh?
Because she was like, I know how to get around
a cobbler house. Maybe I never even put that together.
This is what I do. These things are not coming
up on Noble.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Her dad apparently said that when she was young she
suffered from rheumatic fever, which affected her mentally after that.
So we don't even know what's going on up there.
She little kookie, she's a little kookie. She left home
at nineteen, came to London and she got very sick
and went to a poorhouse hospital and received an improperly
done cupping operation on her head and that was what
(19:42):
gave her the scars, which I find very funny. It's
like people being like, oh, only a primitive Eastern country
could have possibly done this her, and it's like, no,
this happened in London. Yeah bye, because she was a
poor person at the hospital. Yeah, it's people not realizing
the barbaric practices are what they're doing in their own communities.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
She worked as a nurse maid for a family in
Clapham and apparently the children really liked her. She was
very imaginative with stories, so I like it. Then she
got very interested in their Jewish neighbors. She just like
loved their language and their prayers. I mean, we love
an ally, we love someone being interested in the community.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What it's an anti Semite, like a pro Semite.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
She gets fired from her job for attending a Jewish wedding.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I know that is insane.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I know it's I like, I love an Ally, but
I also there's like the bit of balance here where
she was like maybe a little too interested in their
prayer and language, where I do feel a little like
have you read that Judge Judy interview with RuPaul?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yes, yes, We're like, incorporating Judaism into your personality is
maybe something you don't need.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, but like attending a wedding to me is like
the wedding is great, Like that's fun.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, Like go celebrate, Go celebrate. She shouldn't have gotten fired.
No justice for Mary Wilcox, Yeah, but she did. This
is also one of the most iconic details about her
that I love. She gets admitted to a Magdalen hospital
for fallen women, which is like where us text workers
would go because quote, she admired the uniform of brown
(21:22):
dresses and straw hats for the inmates. So she sees
that these women, these fallen women in a Magdalen hospital
are wearing brown dresses and straw hats, and she's like,
I like that, and so she gets in.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
That's like the opposite of Maria von Trapp being like
I love what's going on with the nuns, I'll become
a nun. She's like, I love what's going on with
the sex workers. I'll hang out with the sex worker.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
She gets kicked out when it's discovered that she's not
actually a sex worker, and then we get pieces of
her backstory from here where we're just kind of assuming
and putting pieces together. We know, she hops around, possibly
goes to France, where she learned some French. She becomes pregnant,
gives birth in secret. At first she says the father
was a brick layer from Essex. Later she'll say it
(22:07):
was a Frenchman she met in a bookshop. The child
passes away very tragically. And this is when Mary hits
the road with a group of Romani people. And this
is kind of important because there's a lot of their
language and culture that she'll sort of imitate in her
own little way. She'll take the seeds and then have
fun with it. Yeah, she becomes a beggar in Bristol
(22:30):
because she got fired for going to a Jewish wedding
what she was supposed to do. And this is kind
of where the seeds of the Caribou trick are born,
because she notices in Bristol there are girls who are
from Brittany who are like ethnic Bretons and that's like
a Celtic ethnic group. And she noticed that the Breton
girls make more money because they're begging in their traditional
(22:54):
Breton clothing. And she's like, hmm, okay, whether it's like
because you're getting attention, you look more unique or something
about it. Mary puts on a turban and pretends to
be French as a beggar. But then they take her
to the French console and she doesn't actually speak all
that well, and so she pretends to be Spanish, and
(23:17):
then at the French console they're like, oh, we have
a cookoo Spanish. Hold on one second, and then she's
like wait, wait, wait, no, no, no, just kidding. And
I think this is probably the point where she realizes
that if she's going to fake an ethnicity, she needs
one that no one can call.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, So then that's I think how the Princess Caribou
situation began. We can kind of assume that the Portuguese
guy was in on it.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It sounds like, yeah, she maybe not from the beginning,
but maybe she like met him and was like you
want to tell people?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, okay. I mean we don't have any information on that.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
We don't know what their relationship was, but it kind
of reading between the lines, like I assumed she would
just like go along with this, well, ITT's have fun
and again, pretty young girl, so I think more people
were willing to go along with it.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, so is that how it ended was when this
woman like outed her after seeing her in the paper.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Well, so once she.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Sort of outed and again I think this woman also
outed her in a very polite way.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
It doesn't seem like it was a real like cancel
culture way. She was just like, oh, by the way,
I know her. She used to talk Gibberish.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, the language was sort of now they realized it's
a combination of Gibberish and Romani words. And technically, because
this is right after the Napoleonic War and imposting was
an actual crime under British law. But I mean because
they're scared of spies during the war, so like you're
not allowed to be an impostor, so what she's doing
(24:48):
is against the law, but she isn't punished, which is
like kind of cool. And what really happened the person
too pretty, But really it was just like, well, this
was all in good fun. And who everyone makes fun
of of is sort of the Bristol elites for believing
that they were hosting a princess. Oh yes, like look
at these stupid rich people in Bristol who were so
(25:10):
amused and like patting themselves on the back for having
a royal guest.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
It's like when you.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
See roundups of really really drunk people who thought they
about celebrities. Yeah, and it's just someone who took a
picture with like a redheaded guy and was like I
met Ed Sheeran, and it's like it's.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Not that's it exactly. Everyone is laughing at the people
around her and like kind of give her a pass.
I think mister Nora, mister Worrel's bank collapses, probably because
everyone's like, oh, yeah, this guy's terrible judgment.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, I wouldn't trust him with my money.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
No, and again maybe he's a cruel drunk. According to
some sources, Missus Worrel, his wife, who was born in America,
I think, feels bad because there's a lot of negative
publicity around Mary now and arranges for her to travel
to Philadelphia, possibly to escape the back. Basically, once she
comes to America, she starts a show. She becomes like
(26:04):
a performer, a very pt Barnum style, but a little earlier.
And so some of the things that she says I
will say are not true because she is saying them
on stage. But according to lore, allegedly when she was
on the ship to America, a storm blew her off course,
and they came so close to Saint Helena, where Napoleon
(26:26):
was being held captive, that she took a small boat
and rowed it on shore and met him, and he
was enchanted by her and possibly became his mistress. Oh funny,
maybe maybe not? Yeah, probably not no no no liar
tells Storyeh, but amusing. So in the US, she tries
(26:50):
to kind of capitalize on her fame and appear on
stage as caribou. The thinking is that Americans are still
smarting from the War of eighteen twelve, and so the
idea like, oh, aren't you going to be entertained by
this woman who fooled these dumb British people. And I
also kind of think it's interesting how nowadays if someone
is like quote unquote canceled, they kind of do their
(27:12):
like villain arc tour. Yes, and the way they try
to capitalize on that notoriety for money and public with
that publicity is happening one hundred years two hundred years ago.
Oh yeah, you would just like write a tell all book. Yeah,
this is this is her tell all, This is her
tell her going on call her daddy, She's going on
call her daddy, except she's going on the Philadelphia stage.
(27:36):
She writes a letter back to the worlds saying that
it's really hard to be a celebrity, just like her notoriety.
Like it's not like, oh, it's so hard to be famous,
but like it's very uncomfortable the way ever knows me,
I don't like living here. And in eighteen twenty four,
so a handful of years later, she comes back to Britain,
and then her life becomes pretty normal. In eighteen twenty eight,
(27:59):
she's living at a widow which is possibly not true.
Maybe she just is living as a widow with the
last name of a cousin, Mary Burgess, so it seems
like she just sort of took on a fake name
to avoid the notoriety. From all of this, she marries
a man named Richard Baker, which is why sometimes if
you see stories about her, she's referenced as Mary Baker.
(28:19):
She gives birth to a daughter, Mary Anne, and in
nineteen twenty nine, so a little over a decade after
all of this, she's making a living selling leeches to
a eighteen twenty nine, eighteen twenty nine, Thank you. Eighteen
twenty nine, she is making a living selling leeches to
the Bristol Infirmary Hospital, which is a thing that you
(28:40):
need to do. Yeah, these hospitals need leeches. They gotta
get them for the blood in the humors. Someone has
to collect those leeches. And apparently she's making a respectable living,
but she is still embarrassed about her notoriety. Children would
run after her, calling caribou. It's kind of like when
a person who was on a sitcom then like works
(29:00):
at Trader Joe's. Yes, because she's just do She's just
the leech lady. She's just trying to have a respectable
job with her husband and child. But that kind of
embarrassment of this youthful summer is by all accounts, making
her very uncomfortable. But she lives until her seventies. She
(29:21):
dies around seventy two or seventy three years old and
Christmas Eve buried in Bristol and unmarked grave because they
were very poor. And then this is like the very
sad part about her story is her daughter takes up
the family leech business and lives alone with a bunch
of cats for the rest of her life until she
dies in a fire in nineteen hundred.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Oh yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Congrats on having a lot of cats. We love cats.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
We love cats. That's very sad.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
It just is a very strange, sad, anticlimactic ending again
because she lives for decades after where it's like she
really shined very bright this summer where she was in
the news and on everyone's lips and then tried to
capitalize on it in this show and knew in America
that wasn't that successful, came back and tried to live
(30:09):
a normal life, was sort of haunted by her reputation,
and then did the best she could.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I mean I think that taking advantage of stereotypes aside,
I find her quote unquote crime like mostly harmless.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, and like that kind of fun.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
She's also not imitating a specific racial group. She's speaking nonsense.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
But what it a little bit reminds me of is
like there's a comedian an actor like lied about surviving
nine to eleven and like that is just all he's ever.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Going to be known for. Yeah, and like it's just done. Yeah,
like the nine to eleven guy.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, like that's it, and like whatever boost he got
from that is completely I hope he enjoyed, like whatever
auditions that anecdote got him.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
But is over and again.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
It's like, this is a woman who was possibly mentally ill,
I mean, suffered from mental issues after her rheumatism when
she was a child, who was impoverished for her entire life.
I'm not here to like cancel this poor woman who
was a beggar for most of her life. I think
the larger issue to examine is that she was like
a symptom of this nineteenth century British obsession with Eastern exoticism,
(31:32):
and they were so amused by what was so obviously
a fraud because they wanted to believe it. I read
a few scholarly articles about this and this Historian Matthew
Isaac Cohen wrote an article about British performances of Java
eighteen eleven to eighteen twenty two, and specifically he wrote
about those years because not to get too deep into history,
(31:55):
but I've heard of like the East Indies, Dutch East Indies,
the Dutch college those islands, and then England colonized those
islands and then they went back. So this was like
a period right after British colonization of the Indies. And
he wrote that her performance offered quote a ground for
imperial fantasy. I'm just going to quote what he says,
which is a theatricalized front to a British audience that
(32:18):
was keen to believe in the possibility of the other
coexisting in their midst a representative of a foreign culture
who was both totally unlike them and also not so
distinct as to cause offense. It's like the perfect version
of an quote unquote other, which is like, it's not
(32:39):
too many people, You're not gonna over You're still my immigration,
not immigration, it's just one quirky princess who happens to
be like a beautiful young woman doing fun things for
our amusement.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Sex.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
They couldn't treat Megan Markle like that. Oh gosh, she
should have been quirkier.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
You know they you know, they treat like that. As
Aria Baldwin realized this, oh my god, I would look
I mean Laria Baldwin episode when I.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Mean, yeah, let's not get too deep into this, but
Alaria is doing a Princess Caribou. She realizes you get
more attention somewhere.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Between Ilaria Baldwin and like Rachel Dole was all yeah,
because it's like clearly she's not doing it.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
To fit in with a real group of people. She's
just doing it for attention, and.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
She's fully just Again, this is she's not pretending to
be a specific culture. She's saying she's from a made
up place and speaking a gibberish language.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, she is definitely.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Using exoticized trappings of Romani people and East Asian people,
but she's not doing she's specifically imitating a group that
no one else is a part of.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Really, what this more so reminds me of is like
singers who pretend to be really poor growing up, or
like you know what I mean, or like how I mean.
We talk all the time about how artists always have
to imbell their backstories and present themselves as like really
unusual and coming from some unexpected place when it's like, no,
(34:09):
you just like went to Idlewild.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah you don't. No one wants to be an artist
who grew up in Brentwood.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, but it's like you could get a bunch of
face tattoos and now you're interesting and different and we
want to listen to you rap.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
I mean, that's the interesting thing is like she knew
as a beggar that she would get more attention by
being distinct and different, and she was completely correct. She
became so famous in this one summer that we are
still talking about her. Yeah, and I think that the
person who should like be in trouble, the bad guy
of this episode isn't necessarily her. It's the system that
(34:44):
did that. What I kind of find interesting is there's
been like a slate of projects where she's sort of
just the ngenu, not even like an unlikable female character.
Like there's a nineteen ninety four movie starring.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Phoebe Kates that is such good casting.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Well here's not also really interesting thing. Kates is half
Chinese Filipino.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, because she's a little bit ethnically ambiguous. Yeah, but
also just like a dropped dead hotti.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Dropped dead hottie. No one talked about the fact that
she was, you know, East Asian when they were making
that movie.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
That was not relevant.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
She was just read she was in a ninety Just
say she reads ethnically ambiguous. I'm not saying that Phoebe
Kate's herself is just like an ambiguous blob in the world.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
No, But I think what's interesting is obviously she's like
a real person nineties, Phoebe Kates was just white.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yes, that's just like you see her, You're like white lady. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
But what I do find interesting is the fact that
she actually is closer to what quote unquote Caribou was
pretending to be. This is, by all accounts, not a
very good movie. You can watch a trailer.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
I watched a trailer for it on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Apparently Laura Bonanti, not ethnically ambiguous, to the best of
my knowledge, hosted a workshop for a musical version in
two thousand and four, and then in twenty sixteen there
was an off West It's then musical about her amazing,
which I kind of do feel like, maybe.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Maybe the Brits need to reckon with this a little bit.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Yeah, I'm like the nineteen ninety four version. I read
the Wikipedia and I watched the trailer. I did not
watch the movie because my time is very limited. But
it's very much sort of like a fairy tale version
of this story where there's kind of no bad guys. Yeah,
and it's absolutely not reckoning with like racial othering. Yeah,
that's just not what that movie is about. But I
(36:29):
do think there is if you are going to make
a piece of art about Princess Caribou. That does seem
to be the thing that you need to touch on,
because otherwise there's just not a lot of there. There's yea,
it is just quirky that a random girl put on
a turban and started acting insane and an entire town
fell in love with her and she became an international
(36:51):
news story. Yeah, that's so funny because she was a princess. Yeah,
I mean you also wonder how long did she think
she was going to pull this off?
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Also, like what was the like, girl, you gotta stash
away your money, Like, well, you know what, you got
to have an exit plan.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
You know what the exit plan should have been if
I were get married. You have to you have to
phase out the accent.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Have you seen that ross on Friends? Many times? If
you start with an accent, you have to phase it out.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
I mean, she quote unquote learns English, she learns English,
stops talking in an accent. And then in like a year,
you just people forget that you are the missing princess
and you're like, oh, yes, my ancestry is quite exotic.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
And then you marry a rich guy. Yeah, marry a
rich guy that would have I guess been my plan
if I had been forced into a Cariboo situation. But
she really it was.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
This con did not last long. I mean it lasted
about two months. Special Summer, one special summer, one amazing
wild summer.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
That is the story of Princess Cariboo.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
A story about how we love sexy dumb ladies or
foreignlyan or smart smart like possibly smart ladies acting very
dumb and childlike.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, Lizzie Logan, where can the good people find you?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
You can talk to us at Hooks the Podcast on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
We love chatting. We love chatting.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Follow us, Yeah, go ahead, do it doesn't hurt.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
And Dana, what about you? Hooks Thepodcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I will get to your emails sometimes a little slowly,
but I do read all the emails. And Dana Schwartz
on Instagram and TikTok with three z's, and I will
also beg you. If you're a listener for the show,
please please pre order a copy of the book The R.
Kane Arts. Pre orders are the most important thing in
the book world. They tell a publisher that this book
is worth caring about and putting in bookstores. So if
(38:41):
you like anything I'm doing please pre order that book.
This podcast is free.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
So it is and if you like it, share it
with a friends, share it with a friend, send it
to someone. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Please hoax responsibly Bye. Poax is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Our hosts are Danas Schwortz and Lizzie Logan. Our executive
producers are Matt Frederick and Trevor Young, with supervising producer
(39:15):
Rima L. Kali and producers Nomes Griffin and Jesse Funk.
Our theme music was composed by Laine Montgomery. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Thanks for listening.
You're listening to Hoax, a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Folks.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's a huge.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
When us Evil Blood to see you there.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Hoax, a podcast about the lies we wish
were true and truths that sound like lies.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm the ghost of Danish Worts and.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm the evil twin of Lizzie Logan. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
So Lizzie, this is a rare time in this podcast
where I am going to be talking about a hoax
that I have covered on Noble Blood my other.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Podcast, Self Plagiarisms.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Self Plagiarism. I did go back to the same well
of research. But the reason that I wanted to talk
about it is because I feel like sometimes the format
of Noble Blood one this is just a quintessential hoax
and it is delightful. But also I think the form
of Noble Blood is like a scripted show with a
one single narratives sometimes means I can't explore things in
(01:03):
as wide reaching away as I want to.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It lacks a little Lizzy.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I mean, that's actually what I was gonna say. I'm
not on Noble Blood.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Really, I was gonna say it doesn't have Lizzy's take
on it, and you know, I would never. I don't
really often pause Noble Blood episodes to be like I
always take the historical consensus. But I never paused and like, oh,
this source is this, and this source says that, and
I mean, very rarely do I do that.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
So I am excited to.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Talk a little bit about the broader historical context around
a hoax called Princess Cariboo.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Okay, great, I think I've listened to this Noble Blood episode,
but I think it was a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It was a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I have a vision of myself listening to it at
the gym, and it's been so long since I went
to on Ghim, and I'm like, it couldn't have been
this year, and it couldn't have been last year.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
It was, in fact, a very long time ago. Okay,
So we're going to start the story on April Good Friday.
Some people say it took place at Thursday before, but
most of the story takes place Good Friday, eighteen seventeen. Okay,
so Frankenstein's about to be written. I think Bridgerton is
probably happening around this time. Anatomy a love story if
(02:16):
you're thinking about costumes and what's happening.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
In England at this time, and we're in England. We
are in England.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
We're in Bristol, which is the far west of England,
like almost whales, okay. And a woman arrives at the
small town of Almondsbury, which is right outside Bristol, and
she's wearing what are described as exotic clothes, which in
this case just means like a black turbin a head
covering a black gown with like a muslin frill at
the neck and a red and black shawl.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
To me, looking pretty cool outfit pictures of it.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
It kind of looks like a like a stereo, like
a child dressing like a flamenco dancer.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Oh funny, Like I'm not an accurate reflection of that,
but it's like a girl like putting a scarf on
and being like I'm Spanish, yes, like a child.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
And she has a bundle and this is important, carrying soap.
Just a few haypennies and a counterfeit sixpence and that's
all she has. And this young woman goes to the
house of a cobbler first and talks.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
To him and his wife.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
But she's not speaking English, just sort of an unintelligible language,
and she mimes that she's hungry. They give her some food,
and then she mimes like, oh, can I sleep here,
and they're like no, yeah, no, no no. And the
cobbler's wife takes this woman to the Overseer of the poor,
who's a person who's in charge of what It sounds
like he's like the one who levies taxes on people
(03:38):
and then manages those taxes to manage poorhouses and distribute food, money,
and clothing. Feels like the overseer of the poor is
exactly he should be overseeing this situation.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's who you call.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
And the overseer, though also pawnts her off on someone else.
He goes to like the local magistrate, sort of the
mayor equivalent of this town. Samuel Wirrel and his American
born wife Elizabeth to like figure out this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Two questions, how old does this woman appear to be?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And like what color is she? Young? Pretty? You're asking
like race, like.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Just appearance wise, because if she can't talk, then she
can't really explain her ethnicity, but just like like purely
on the surface, so again it means she could talk.
In the nineteenth century, our understanding of race is different
than it is now. She has dark hair and dark eyes. Okay,
she is in fact like a white person, but that
(04:42):
she's also sort of just like swarthy. Okay, so she
doesn't seem English.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Maybe doesn't seem English. And again she's not dressed like
an English woman. She's speaking another language. And she's a
poor beggar woman. But this is also a case where
I do feel like pretty privileged really does exist. Oh yeah,
where this isn't just like an old crone. This is
like a very pretty young woman, and I think that
makes a difference in the story. And so as you're
(05:07):
listening to the story and how people are treating her,
I think the fact that she is pretty makes a difference,
oh totally, which is just an unfortunate reality of the
world then as it is now, I feel like fundamentally
there was a big to do. I think the equivalent
to the stories, there's a big to do because there
was a very handsome convict at one point.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Do you remember this, oh, like yeah, the hot felon,
the hot felon, And there's a whole account that's like
mug Shouty's yeah, like bugshot of like Shouty's.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I think fundamentally, if you see an unhoused person or
a convict, a felon who is very conventionally attractive, something
in you is like, well, that person shouldn't be there,
they should be doing pilates.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, oh yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Jim Gaffigan has a whole bit about how actors are
way too good looking to be believable, like in certain
roles where he talks about like halle Berry and Monster's Ball,
He's like, she played that poverty stricken woman.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
The whole time.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I was like, why doesn't she just become a model?
She could be the next sale Berry.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
So basically they bring her to this magistrate to figure
out what her deal is, and she acts pretty unusually.
She sleeps only on the floor of the room, even
though there's a bed. And then when they bring her
to like a local inn called the Bowl, their botanical
prints are very popular around this time, like on the wall,
and she sees a botanical print of a pineapple and
(06:37):
says nanas, which is nanas are like is a word
for pineapple and Indonesian but also a lot of other
different languages, and people are like, oh, she knows what
the exotic fruit, pineapple is and then they show her
pictures of China and she gets like very animated and excited,
even though they don't know what language she's speaking. So
they're like, Okay, maybe this woman came from Asia. So again,
(06:59):
sam Old Worrel is the magistrate of this town, but
he doesn't want to be associated with a counterfeitter because
they had found a counterfeit coin in her purse, and
he's like, I don't want to get in trouble for this.
I'm going to have this woman be tried for vagrancy
in Bristol because he thinks she's just a vagrant.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I don't want to get in trouble for being around
this person who did this crime.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, it's my job.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Well you should turn her into the authorities, all right.
I will also say different sources sometimes characterize Samuel Warrel
very ungenerously, like people are like he's a drunk and
a cruel man, and I take those with the grain
of salt, because a lot of contemporary sources just don't
comment on his personality. And I think if you are
embellishing this story, you want to like add a little
(07:50):
spice to the side. Characters and you're like, ah, well,
he sent her to be tried for vagrancy. What a
cruel man, presumably a drunkard. So you might see when
researching this story, might see things like that. I just
am like, I don't know. He didn't want to get
involved with this strange woman acting in a weird way.
But she is briefly imprisoned, and it's while she's in
(08:11):
Bristol that she meets a Portuguese sailor and sometimes in
some sources he's named Manuel Ennis, but I've also seen
Manuel Inesso, and he says that he actually understands the
language that she's speaking, and he's able to translate and
says that according to this woman, her name is Princess Caribou.
She's from the island of Javasu in the Indian Ocean,
(08:33):
right off of Sumatra. She was kidnapped from her homeland
by pirates, managed to escape by jumping overboard, and that's
how she ended up in Bristol. And from this translation
of the Portuguese sailor, we learned that she's the daughter
of a Chinese person of rank and a male woman,
which is a indigenous tribe to this group, like an
(08:56):
indigenous ethnic group in what we now call the Indonesian Islands.
Javasu again located off the coast of Sumatra.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
But I'm going to do a.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Brief spoiler for people who maybe are like, I don't
know where Javasu is. That's not a real place. Oh yeah,
it doesn't sound real. It well sounds kind of like Java, yes,
and Sumatra. But you're like, okay, sort of put them together. Yeah,
but it's not real. But what's happening right now in
England is the exotic is very exciting.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
And so this woman is let out of prison and
the worlds, drunk and cruel, are not take her back
to their house. And this is where like two months
of the best summer we ever had started. So she
is staying with the worlds in this small town and
it is just like.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Do they keep this Portuguese guy around to continue translating? No,
it seems like he's really key to this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
By this point, she's able to communicate enough, okay, And
I think part of like her childlike inability to articulate
things is part of her I'm gonna say air quotes charm.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I also again want to be like she's very pretty.
She has this sort of childlike approach to things, and
I think that's why people get very excited about her.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
There's a great YouTube video that as far as I know,
this YouTube video is what coined the term, but it's
a term that people use now to describe this character
trope in movies mostly born sexy, yesterday born sexy.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That's exactly what she is.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Where it's like Leelu in The Fifth Element or a
little bit Madison and Splash, Yeah, or Bella in a
Poor Things, where it's usually a woman who has the
body of a hot woman and the brain of a child,
not for creepy reasons, but for like sci fi reasons.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, and so she's very helpless and then she's also
very sex for.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Some reason, my brain also goes to like mermaid things.
So I'm going to like, you know, the woman in
Splash Yeah, like in Aquamarine, Yes, that girl where it's
just like I'm just so helpless and silly and naive
with my strange custom Yeah, like how do this work? Yeah,
it's othering a foreigner, but it's not racist. If she's
(11:21):
a mermaid.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
It's infantilizing a grown woman so that you can still
want to fuck her, and also she has no agency.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
That is exactly what's happening with this woman. So a
ton of visitors are coming through Almondsbury because they're all
so excited to see her. The Worls are very excited
that they have a royal visitor. And Samuel Wirrel is
actually starting a private bank at this time, and he
feels like the publicity and sort of the esteem of
having a royal guest is like bolstering his local business.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Surely the answer to this question will be no.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
But does anyone have the idea of like, oh, we
should probably get her home.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
No, Okay, she's an England now, I wonderful. She's a
princess where she's from. Why does she want to leave
with these people? Because maybe because she's having a freaking blast.
She's a princess, I know.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So there's all these anecdotes because a few I'm not
to jump ahead, but newspapers get word of her and
we'll write all these anecdotes. So a lot of our
sources for these unusual things she does come from newspapers.
But according to one source, this gentleman who had visited
Malae in recent years brought out a souvenir sword and caribou.
The princess gets very excited and recognizes it as belonging
(12:40):
to her country, and they even say she tries to
grab at it, but quote from prudence, it was denied her,
which is very born sexy.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yesterday it's like, well, she can't have a night, uh, and.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Then she but she placed the dagger to her right side,
where according to this gentleman who had visited Malley, the
Malay people wore it, which quote confirmed to this gentleman
that she perfectly understood the custom, though not the language
of that country, because she is not speaking malee okay,
she is in fact not speaking any language that anyone
(13:13):
really recognizes. There's a sort of a local expert, like
a polymath named doctor Wilkinson, who shows her this book
Edmund Fry's Pantagraphia, which has is like a manual of
different languages, and she picks hers, which he identifies as
one called Reijng, which is I believe spoken in Sumatra.
(13:34):
And this doctor also identifies that she has strange markings
on her head, scars that could only have come he says,
from Eastern medicine practices, some sort of barbaric surgery.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Wow, okay, so she's from like all over.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, she has some strange scars on her head and
we're like, we don't know what that is. They send
samples of her language to Oxford to be like, do
you know what this is? And they're like no, so
no one quite. I mean this doctor Wilkinson identified what
he thought the language was, but no one quite knows
what she's saying, even though some of the words she's
(14:10):
using are specific to Indonesian languages.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Did you in middle school read The Island of the
Blue Dolphins.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yes, I love that book. It's like the real version
of this, real version of Island of the Blue Dolphins. Well, no,
the Island of the Blue Dolphins is based on a
real lady. What a woman's whole family left her behind
on an island. I think they all died or something.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And then she was like the if I'm remembering fourth
grade correctly, she got separated from her family or whatever
and became the last person in the world who spoke
her language.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Okay, I did not realize Island of the Blue Dolphin
was inspired by a real story.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Can we very quickly check if I'm write yes.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yes, the lone woman of San Nicholas Island left the
one for eighteen years.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, yeah, this woman crazy again. No one, it's it's
hard to get to the place that she came from.
No one really understands the language. But they're having just
a fun summer with Okay, she's doing She swims naked.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Hot hot.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
She practices archery and is apparently very good at it. Okay, good, badass,
badass cooks a chicken curry, performs a war dance with
a gong, and prays on the roof to a god
that she calls a La tala, which is also a
name for a god in a bunch of a few
other languages.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Allah is yeah, most great. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
She also declines to drink alcohol. She brings one or
both of her hands to her forehead to greet people.
She quote bathed more than more often than was the custom,
and we're a shawl while praying. They also just put
her in exotic clothing and have her portrait painted and
throw a ball for her in her honor and bath.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Kind of like et. Yeah, but they're all having a
great time. I mean, what to do next?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
So this doctor doctor Wilkinson, who examined her head and
examined her language, published her findings. There's a Telegraph article
written about her.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
This is you know, June.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
At this point, one of the war el servants, allegedly
who's a Greek Man, doesn't think she's legit, and he
decides to test her, and in the middle of the
night he walks around and shouts fire to see if
she would react, because that would prove that she knew English.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
But she didn't.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
This story, over the course of about eight weeks, gains
in popularity. I think I understand why, which is kind
of I don't want to get ahead of myself. But
the reason people are so interested in this story, I
think is kind of the main fascination here. But this
story becomes so well known that this woman named missus Neil,
(16:55):
who runs a boarding house in Bristol, hears about it
and sees a photograph photographs he's a drawing of this
young woman in the newspaper, and she recognizes the picture
of her published in the Bristol Journal and goes to
inform the worlds that, oh, this girl that you're calling
Princess Caribou, I know her. She's a former servant and
(17:16):
her name is Mary Wilcox and when she lived in
the boarding house that I ran, she just like would
sometimes wear a turban and do a made up language
for fun.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I'm obsessed with her. I love her so much. This
is incredible. I love how much she has committed to
the best.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
She's She's really the patron saint of committing to the bit.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I mean, this is like Nathan Fielder wishes like, this
is jury duty, but uno, reverse Uh, this is.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Just her turning everyone else into the jury duty.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
She's just pranking. I mean, the greatest character actress of
our time.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I do.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I want to point out, and we'll get to this
a little later. She is exploiting in other people of
different races. Yeah, to be like a slight buzzkill here,
she's not just doing like a quirky character, but she
is the queen of committing to the bit.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I'm gonna not give her a pass for being of
her time, but I'm gonna contextualize her as being of
all of the things that people are doing.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yes, in the pre Civil war world, I.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Realize this is in England. Yeah, this to be does
not rank among the atrocities.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
So not the atrocities to people of color, and I
also want to point out I don't think the problem
is as much with her as it is everyone around her.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, if they didn't want to believe in racist stereotypes,
there would have been no stereotypes for her to exploit.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
That is it.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
It's everyone around her delighted that she is indulging exactly
the racist stereotype that they.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Want to enjoy. What a grifter?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, So who is Mary Wilcox. She was born we're
in seventeen ninety one or ninety two in Devonshire. Her
father was a cobbler. We don't know anything about her mother.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Is that why she went to a cobbler house? Oh?
Because she was like, I know how to get around
a cobbler house. Maybe I never even put that together.
This is what I do. These things are not coming
up on Noble.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Her dad apparently said that when she was young she
suffered from rheumatic fever, which affected her mentally after that.
So we don't even know what's going on up there.
She little kookie, she's a little kookie. She left home
at nineteen, came to London and she got very sick
and went to a poorhouse hospital and received an improperly
done cupping operation on her head and that was what
(19:42):
gave her the scars, which I find very funny. It's
like people being like, oh, only a primitive Eastern country
could have possibly done this her, and it's like, no,
this happened in London. Yeah bye, because she was a
poor person at the hospital. Yeah, it's people not realizing
the barbaric practices are what they're doing in their own communities.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
She worked as a nurse maid for a family in
Clapham and apparently the children really liked her. She was
very imaginative with stories, so I like it. Then she
got very interested in their Jewish neighbors. She just like
loved their language and their prayers. I mean, we love
an ally, we love someone being interested in the community.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What it's an anti Semite, like a pro Semite.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
She gets fired from her job for attending a Jewish wedding.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I know that is insane.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I know it's I like, I love an Ally, but
I also there's like the bit of balance here where
she was like maybe a little too interested in their
prayer and language, where I do feel a little like
have you read that Judge Judy interview with RuPaul?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yes, yes, We're like, incorporating Judaism into your personality is
maybe something you don't need.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, but like attending a wedding to me is like
the wedding is great, Like that's fun.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, Like go celebrate, Go celebrate. She shouldn't have gotten fired.
No justice for Mary Wilcox, Yeah, but she did. This
is also one of the most iconic details about her
that I love. She gets admitted to a Magdalen hospital
for fallen women, which is like where us text workers
would go because quote, she admired the uniform of brown
(21:22):
dresses and straw hats for the inmates. So she sees
that these women, these fallen women in a Magdalen hospital
are wearing brown dresses and straw hats, and she's like,
I like that, and so she gets in.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
That's like the opposite of Maria von Trapp being like
I love what's going on with the nuns, I'll become
a nun. She's like, I love what's going on with
the sex workers. I'll hang out with the sex worker.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
She gets kicked out when it's discovered that she's not
actually a sex worker, and then we get pieces of
her backstory from here where we're just kind of assuming
and putting pieces together. We know, she hops around, possibly
goes to France, where she learned some French. She becomes pregnant,
gives birth in secret. At first she says the father
was a brick layer from Essex. Later she'll say it
(22:07):
was a Frenchman she met in a bookshop. The child
passes away very tragically. And this is when Mary hits
the road with a group of Romani people. And this
is kind of important because there's a lot of their
language and culture that she'll sort of imitate in her
own little way. She'll take the seeds and then have
fun with it. Yeah, she becomes a beggar in Bristol
(22:30):
because she got fired for going to a Jewish wedding
what she was supposed to do. And this is kind
of where the seeds of the Caribou trick are born,
because she notices in Bristol there are girls who are
from Brittany who are like ethnic Bretons and that's like
a Celtic ethnic group. And she noticed that the Breton
girls make more money because they're begging in their traditional
(22:54):
Breton clothing. And she's like, hmm, okay, whether it's like
because you're getting attention, you look more unique or something
about it. Mary puts on a turban and pretends to
be French as a beggar. But then they take her
to the French console and she doesn't actually speak all
that well, and so she pretends to be Spanish, and
(23:17):
then at the French console they're like, oh, we have
a cookoo Spanish. Hold on one second, and then she's
like wait, wait, wait, no, no, no, just kidding. And
I think this is probably the point where she realizes
that if she's going to fake an ethnicity, she needs
one that no one can call.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, So then that's I think how the Princess Caribou
situation began. We can kind of assume that the Portuguese
guy was in on it.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It sounds like, yeah, she maybe not from the beginning,
but maybe she like met him and was like you
want to tell people?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, okay. I mean we don't have any information on that.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
We don't know what their relationship was, but it kind
of reading between the lines, like I assumed she would
just like go along with this, well, ITT's have fun
and again, pretty young girl, so I think more people
were willing to go along with it.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, so is that how it ended was when this
woman like outed her after seeing her in the paper.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Well, so once she.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Sort of outed and again I think this woman also
outed her in a very polite way.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
It doesn't seem like it was a real like cancel
culture way. She was just like, oh, by the way,
I know her. She used to talk Gibberish.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, the language was sort of now they realized it's
a combination of Gibberish and Romani words. And technically, because
this is right after the Napoleonic War and imposting was
an actual crime under British law. But I mean because
they're scared of spies during the war, so like you're
not allowed to be an impostor, so what she's doing
(24:48):
is against the law, but she isn't punished, which is
like kind of cool. And what really happened the person
too pretty, But really it was just like, well, this
was all in good fun. And who everyone makes fun
of of is sort of the Bristol elites for believing
that they were hosting a princess. Oh yes, like look
at these stupid rich people in Bristol who were so
(25:10):
amused and like patting themselves on the back for having
a royal guest.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
It's like when you.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
See roundups of really really drunk people who thought they
about celebrities. Yeah, and it's just someone who took a
picture with like a redheaded guy and was like I
met Ed Sheeran, and it's like it's.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Not that's it exactly. Everyone is laughing at the people
around her and like kind of give her a pass.
I think mister Nora, mister Worrel's bank collapses, probably because
everyone's like, oh, yeah, this guy's terrible judgment.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, I wouldn't trust him with my money.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
No, and again maybe he's a cruel drunk. According to
some sources, Missus Worrel, his wife, who was born in America,
I think, feels bad because there's a lot of negative
publicity around Mary now and arranges for her to travel
to Philadelphia, possibly to escape the back. Basically, once she
comes to America, she starts a show. She becomes like
(26:04):
a performer, a very pt Barnum style, but a little earlier.
And so some of the things that she says I
will say are not true because she is saying them
on stage. But according to lore, allegedly when she was
on the ship to America, a storm blew her off course,
and they came so close to Saint Helena, where Napoleon
(26:26):
was being held captive, that she took a small boat
and rowed it on shore and met him, and he
was enchanted by her and possibly became his mistress. Oh funny,
maybe maybe not? Yeah, probably not no no no liar
tells Storyeh, but amusing. So in the US, she tries
(26:50):
to kind of capitalize on her fame and appear on
stage as caribou. The thinking is that Americans are still
smarting from the War of eighteen twelve, and so the
idea like, oh, aren't you going to be entertained by
this woman who fooled these dumb British people. And I
also kind of think it's interesting how nowadays if someone
is like quote unquote canceled, they kind of do their
(27:12):
like villain arc tour. Yes, and the way they try
to capitalize on that notoriety for money and public with
that publicity is happening one hundred years two hundred years ago.
Oh yeah, you would just like write a tell all book. Yeah,
this is this is her tell all, This is her
tell her going on call her daddy, She's going on
call her daddy, except she's going on the Philadelphia stage.
(27:36):
She writes a letter back to the worlds saying that
it's really hard to be a celebrity, just like her notoriety.
Like it's not like, oh, it's so hard to be famous,
but like it's very uncomfortable the way ever knows me,
I don't like living here. And in eighteen twenty four,
so a handful of years later, she comes back to Britain,
and then her life becomes pretty normal. In eighteen twenty eight,
(27:59):
she's living at a widow which is possibly not true.
Maybe she just is living as a widow with the
last name of a cousin, Mary Burgess, so it seems
like she just sort of took on a fake name
to avoid the notoriety. From all of this, she marries
a man named Richard Baker, which is why sometimes if
you see stories about her, she's referenced as Mary Baker.
(28:19):
She gives birth to a daughter, Mary Anne, and in
nineteen twenty nine, so a little over a decade after
all of this, she's making a living selling leeches to
a eighteen twenty nine, eighteen twenty nine, Thank you. Eighteen
twenty nine, she is making a living selling leeches to
the Bristol Infirmary Hospital, which is a thing that you
(28:40):
need to do. Yeah, these hospitals need leeches. They gotta
get them for the blood in the humors. Someone has
to collect those leeches. And apparently she's making a respectable living,
but she is still embarrassed about her notoriety. Children would
run after her, calling caribou. It's kind of like when
a person who was on a sitcom then like works
(29:00):
at Trader Joe's. Yes, because she's just do She's just
the leech lady. She's just trying to have a respectable
job with her husband and child. But that kind of
embarrassment of this youthful summer is by all accounts, making
her very uncomfortable. But she lives until her seventies. She
(29:21):
dies around seventy two or seventy three years old and
Christmas Eve buried in Bristol and unmarked grave because they
were very poor. And then this is like the very
sad part about her story is her daughter takes up
the family leech business and lives alone with a bunch
of cats for the rest of her life until she
dies in a fire in nineteen hundred.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Oh yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Congrats on having a lot of cats. We love cats.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
We love cats. That's very sad.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
It just is a very strange, sad, anticlimactic ending again
because she lives for decades after where it's like she
really shined very bright this summer where she was in
the news and on everyone's lips and then tried to
capitalize on it in this show and knew in America
that wasn't that successful, came back and tried to live
(30:09):
a normal life, was sort of haunted by her reputation,
and then did the best she could.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I mean I think that taking advantage of stereotypes aside,
I find her quote unquote crime like mostly harmless.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, and like that kind of fun.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
She's also not imitating a specific racial group. She's speaking nonsense.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
But what it a little bit reminds me of is
like there's a comedian an actor like lied about surviving
nine to eleven and like that is just all he's ever.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Going to be known for. Yeah, and like it's just done. Yeah,
like the nine to eleven guy.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, like that's it, and like whatever boost he got
from that is completely I hope he enjoyed, like whatever
auditions that anecdote got him.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
But is over and again.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
It's like, this is a woman who was possibly mentally ill,
I mean, suffered from mental issues after her rheumatism when
she was a child, who was impoverished for her entire life.
I'm not here to like cancel this poor woman who
was a beggar for most of her life. I think
the larger issue to examine is that she was like
a symptom of this nineteenth century British obsession with Eastern exoticism,
(31:32):
and they were so amused by what was so obviously
a fraud because they wanted to believe it. I read
a few scholarly articles about this and this Historian Matthew
Isaac Cohen wrote an article about British performances of Java
eighteen eleven to eighteen twenty two, and specifically he wrote
about those years because not to get too deep into history,
(31:55):
but I've heard of like the East Indies, Dutch East Indies,
the Dutch college those islands, and then England colonized those
islands and then they went back. So this was like
a period right after British colonization of the Indies. And
he wrote that her performance offered quote a ground for
imperial fantasy. I'm just going to quote what he says,
which is a theatricalized front to a British audience that
(32:18):
was keen to believe in the possibility of the other
coexisting in their midst a representative of a foreign culture
who was both totally unlike them and also not so
distinct as to cause offense. It's like the perfect version
of an quote unquote other, which is like, it's not
(32:39):
too many people, You're not gonna over You're still my immigration,
not immigration, it's just one quirky princess who happens to
be like a beautiful young woman doing fun things for
our amusement.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Sex.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
They couldn't treat Megan Markle like that. Oh gosh, she
should have been quirkier.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
You know they you know, they treat like that. As
Aria Baldwin realized this, oh my god, I would look
I mean Laria Baldwin episode when I.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Mean, yeah, let's not get too deep into this, but
Alaria is doing a Princess Caribou. She realizes you get
more attention somewhere.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Between Ilaria Baldwin and like Rachel Dole was all yeah,
because it's like clearly she's not doing it.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
To fit in with a real group of people. She's
just doing it for attention, and.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
She's fully just Again, this is she's not pretending to
be a specific culture. She's saying she's from a made
up place and speaking a gibberish language.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, she is definitely.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Using exoticized trappings of Romani people and East Asian people,
but she's not doing she's specifically imitating a group that
no one else is a part of.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Really, what this more so reminds me of is like
singers who pretend to be really poor growing up, or
like you know what I mean, or like how I mean.
We talk all the time about how artists always have
to imbell their backstories and present themselves as like really
unusual and coming from some unexpected place when it's like, no,
(34:09):
you just like went to Idlewild.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah you don't. No one wants to be an artist
who grew up in Brentwood.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, but it's like you could get a bunch of
face tattoos and now you're interesting and different and we
want to listen to you rap.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
I mean, that's the interesting thing is like she knew
as a beggar that she would get more attention by
being distinct and different, and she was completely correct. She
became so famous in this one summer that we are
still talking about her. Yeah, and I think that the
person who should like be in trouble, the bad guy
of this episode isn't necessarily her. It's the system that
(34:44):
did that. What I kind of find interesting is there's
been like a slate of projects where she's sort of
just the ngenu, not even like an unlikable female character.
Like there's a nineteen ninety four movie starring.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Phoebe Kates that is such good casting.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Well here's not also really interesting thing. Kates is half
Chinese Filipino.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, because she's a little bit ethnically ambiguous. Yeah, but
also just like a dropped dead hotti.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Dropped dead hottie. No one talked about the fact that
she was, you know, East Asian when they were making
that movie.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
That was not relevant.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
She was just read she was in a ninety Just
say she reads ethnically ambiguous. I'm not saying that Phoebe
Kate's herself is just like an ambiguous blob in the world.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
No, But I think what's interesting is obviously she's like
a real person nineties, Phoebe Kates was just white.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yes, that's just like you see her, You're like white lady. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
But what I do find interesting is the fact that
she actually is closer to what quote unquote Caribou was
pretending to be. This is, by all accounts, not a
very good movie. You can watch a trailer.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
I watched a trailer for it on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Apparently Laura Bonanti, not ethnically ambiguous, to the best of
my knowledge, hosted a workshop for a musical version in
two thousand and four, and then in twenty sixteen there
was an off West It's then musical about her amazing,
which I kind of do feel like, maybe.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Maybe the Brits need to reckon with this a little bit.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Yeah, I'm like the nineteen ninety four version. I read
the Wikipedia and I watched the trailer. I did not
watch the movie because my time is very limited. But
it's very much sort of like a fairy tale version
of this story where there's kind of no bad guys. Yeah,
and it's absolutely not reckoning with like racial othering. Yeah,
that's just not what that movie is about. But I
(36:29):
do think there is if you are going to make
a piece of art about Princess Caribou. That does seem
to be the thing that you need to touch on,
because otherwise there's just not a lot of there. There's yea,
it is just quirky that a random girl put on
a turban and started acting insane and an entire town
fell in love with her and she became an international
(36:51):
news story. Yeah, that's so funny because she was a princess. Yeah,
I mean you also wonder how long did she think
she was going to pull this off?
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Also, like what was the like, girl, you gotta stash
away your money, Like, well, you know what, you got
to have an exit plan.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
You know what the exit plan should have been if
I were get married. You have to you have to
phase out the accent.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Have you seen that ross on Friends? Many times? If
you start with an accent, you have to phase it out.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
I mean, she quote unquote learns English, she learns English,
stops talking in an accent. And then in like a year,
you just people forget that you are the missing princess
and you're like, oh, yes, my ancestry is quite exotic.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
And then you marry a rich guy. Yeah, marry a
rich guy that would have I guess been my plan
if I had been forced into a Cariboo situation. But
she really it was.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
This con did not last long. I mean it lasted
about two months. Special Summer, one special summer, one amazing
wild summer.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
That is the story of Princess Cariboo.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
A story about how we love sexy dumb ladies or
foreignlyan or smart smart like possibly smart ladies acting very
dumb and childlike.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, Lizzie Logan, where can the good people find you?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
You can talk to us at Hooks the Podcast on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
We love chatting. We love chatting.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Follow us, Yeah, go ahead, do it doesn't hurt.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
And Dana, what about you? Hooks Thepodcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I will get to your emails sometimes a little slowly,
but I do read all the emails. And Dana Schwartz
on Instagram and TikTok with three z's, and I will
also beg you. If you're a listener for the show,
please please pre order a copy of the book The R.
Kane Arts. Pre orders are the most important thing in
the book world. They tell a publisher that this book
is worth caring about and putting in bookstores. So if
(38:41):
you like anything I'm doing please pre order that book.
This podcast is free.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
So it is and if you like it, share it
with a friends, share it with a friend, send it
to someone. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Please hoax responsibly Bye. Poax is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Our hosts are Danas Schwortz and Lizzie Logan. Our executive
producers are Matt Frederick and Trevor Young, with supervising producer
(39:15):
Rima L. Kali and producers Nomes Griffin and Jesse Funk.
Our theme music was composed by Laine Montgomery. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Thanks for listening.
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