November 13, 2025 • 28 mins
The grand finale of “The Golden Bachelor” may not have ended with an engagement, but it gave us gold in terms of personal and relationship lessons! Spoiler alert on this episode, if you still don’t know how it ends, finish watching before listening. From 60-year-old Cindy who left before the fantasy suite because she doesn’t “need to convince a man to love me” to 62-year-old Peg who went in with zero expectations and ultimately, came out on top, Amy and T.J. talk about if an engagement or marriage is necessary for commitment and just how important it ultimately is for a partner to feel secure.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, November thirteenth, and a
central question in the grand finale of The Golden Bachelor
last night was can you truly prove your commitment short
of an engagement? Well, we got the answer last night.
The thing is, I'm still not exactly sure what it
(00:23):
is Robes And with that, welcome to this episode of
Amy and TJ. Right. That was central to it the
grand finale. We know who Mel picked, but so much
more time was spent on the woman he didn't pick
and why.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
It was an interesting case in how we fall in love,
who we trust, and perhaps even how you handle putting
your heart out there at an older age versus a
younger age. You know, like, how willing are you to trust?
What does time mean to you when you're in your sixties.
It's very different than when you're in your twenties or
(01:00):
thirties or even forties.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
This was a rope. This is a great, great, great show.
I didn't think that the whole season, but when it
all comes together with these relationship themes, and I love
the idea of throwing people in their older ages second chance.
What's on the line? Risk you take everything you just
hit on played out last night. If you haven't been
watching over the season, what was a good chance A
(01:22):
lot of you have not, because this has been a
really low rated season. And I think I've seen just
about everybody places the blame in one place for why
it's been a lowly rated season.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yes, everyone is blaming mel Owens because he's such a good,
nice guy. He's not controversial, he's not over the top.
He's not saying outlandish things or rude things, or even
super loving things. He's playing it straight forward. He's being
true to himself. He's a Michigander, my god, through and through.
(01:53):
I know them well. I come from a long line
of them. And that maybe didn't make for exciting, explosive television.
I used to seeing.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Boring, Yes, boring period. Now you I love that. You
were so delicate now you put that.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
But sometimes life is boring, you know what I mean,
Like I think, but not on television. You don't want
to watch it bad it.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Is, thank you, And I think most people tell you
life is pretty exciting. Oh, in one way or another.
Sometimes it's bad. But this was a case this guy,
and I think, how good and everything you talk about
Michigander came through even more so in these final episodes
because he did something that a lot of women wish
that guys would do. He was honest, yeah, and she
(02:38):
didn't like the answer. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
You know, he reminds me a lot of my dad,
maybe that I'm I feel like I know him because
he is that that guy that every girl wants, and
yet you can't make him or force him to feel,
or do or say what you want them to. And
I think that is what we saw from one of
the final to Women six, Cindy. She's sixty years old
(03:01):
and she wanted him to she said, not be able
to live without her. And I remember I looked at
you when she said that I want somebody who can't
live without me, and I thought that was interesting. That
sounds like something someone would say in their twenties, and
even now, as a woman in her fifties, I can
honestly say to you, I want you to be able
(03:23):
to live without me. I want you to choose me.
I want you to want to spend your life with me.
But I don't need you to want to live to
not be able to live without me. That seems far fetched.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
That's year's life learning experience. Yes, but in defense of women.
And we've heard some things she said, and there was
a live audience. They were women were applauding.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
She got standing ovations multiple times.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Some of the things she was saying, you find, and
I find other people would say that is unhealthy. You
shouldn't need anybody for your happiness. You should need to
provide it to anybody else. And she at times, and
some of the things she was saying include that one
in particular makes you sit up and stop. And I
said to you, that is the thing that's probably that
(04:08):
scares the hell out of guys.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And it scares the hell out of me. Having look,
we've lived enough life. But I've talked about this before.
It's this fairy tale that a lot of us women
are sold. From the moment we can consume any kind
of media, we're told our Prince Charming is out there.
And yes, the narratives are starting to shift with Disney movies,
et cetera. But it also feels very forced, like, oh, yeah,
(04:30):
my true love is my sister or my true love
is myself. Okay, I get that, but the reality is
most of us are told that our prince is waiting
for us, and He's gonna save us from all of
our problems, and it seemed like Cindy was suffering from
that and then being applauded by and supported by other
women who also believe in that. She made a lot
(04:52):
of lines that contribute to that narrative. I don't need
I don't need to convince a man to love me.
I'm not interested in being put on hold. She was
so invested in the outcome, and I get that that
she missed the journey. Dare I say the journey, But
that's a word used a lot on these shows, and
on this one in particular. But she wasn't interested in
(05:15):
the process or in the development. She wanted the happy
ending immediately.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Okay, So I have to at least in her defense
or excuse me, at least a part of the conversation,
and it was a part of the finale as well,
was about the outcome. Where you come onto the show,
she kept arguing understanding what the outcome is supposed to be.
She made the argument that all twenty three of these
women that came here, mel you left them with the
(05:41):
impression just by coming on the show that there was
an engagement at the end, and.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You know, what And I think, yes, that has been
the case in some of the circumstances, and a lot
of the audience is hoping and waiting for that. But
he was there to find someone. He was there to
find a partner. And I believe that he just said
I can't tell you that I'm here to propose, and
that offended her argument.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yes, but should he have understood that these twenty three
women expect that and he needs to deliver it, because
that was the impression she gave, or at least the argument,
like you brought us here, she had one point set
that like all of us here, she did, I have
an expectation of an engagement at the end. The woman
he picked sure didn't. But ultimately, but this woman did.
(06:27):
Is that a fair argument that mel It wasn't okay
for you to tell me that maybe there's not an engagement.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I think it's totally fair. I mean, come on, she's
not a show, yes, but this is still life. We're
talking about real life. This might be a TV show,
but life continues after the show. And I thought he
was actually really smart. It wasn't as if he just said, oh,
I'm not going to end up with anybody I'm doing this.
Do you really think that mel was doing it for
publicity or doing it to make a name for himself
(06:55):
or to get some extra cash on the side. I
do believe he was there to find a partner, and
I actually think it's more valuable and more genuine for
him to say, uh that he was looking for a
partner and that could lead to an engagement and a wife.
But it didn't necessarily mean it had to happen in
that moment, on that day.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
The other issue with it possibly uh In. I don't
know whose favorites this is in, but the timing we
taught timing two things having to do with age and
having to do with how much time they got to
spend together on this show, it is unreasonable to start
dating somebody and to think in four months you need
to propose in real life that's on that's unreasonable now.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
And yes, and if that person is dating twenty three
other people in the beginning of it, that also waters
down the time you have to get to know someone.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
But again that worked against them. But is that the
absurdity of possibly a show like this maybe should take
that out of hell. Even Jesse was a former bachelor,
he didn't propose what it means to me? The first
one that yes, okay, so it happens, but I have
never seen I haven't watched the show enough. Like someone's
(08:06):
so upset that you, while you're still considering another woman,
won't sit here and tell me that you are going
to be willing to get engaged to me, is her argument. Look,
if that's where she is, we have to respect it.
I just I can't fault Mel for being practical.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Neither can I. And look, Cindy seems I mean, she's
obviously an very intelligent woman. She's a mother of three,
She's gone through a lot, she's a biomedical she was
a biomedical engineer. Yes, but what I thought was sad
on her end. And look, look I get it. These
are real feelings, and I think that is what this show,
in this episode certainly proved this season. She was hurt,
(08:48):
she wanted him to be all about her, and I
do think that was unreasonable going for her. She pointed
that Mel was unreasonable for maybe not automatically saying I'm
going to propose to someone at the end, I think
she was unreasonable to believe that she should have been
held up on a pedestal higher than all the other women.
(09:08):
She wanted to have the lightning bolt. She wanted to
have him say I'll do anything, You're the one, and
that's not what the show's about. And even if he
did feel that way, the show would never want him
to say that while there are still two people in Antigua,
where there are still two women, and she wanted confirmation,
she wanted validation, and he couldn't give it to her,
(09:30):
and so instead of and he pointed this out in
the live reunion, which was an awkward, awkward moment on
the show, but he made a really good point, we
never got to go to the fantasy suite. And she
kind of was like, well, you didn't earn the right to,
but he said, no, this wasn't about being intimate with you,
This wasn't about having sex. This was an opportunity to
(09:52):
talk without the microphone, without the cameras, and you denied
us that opportunity because on.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Camera you wouldn't do what I told you you needed
to do. Now I have seen you, we don't know
this show. She's been pleasant throughout Ashley from the very beginning.
I said, that's my girl. Yeah, I said, that's the
one he's going to end up with. You did think
that that's the one? So she all these are pleasant,
accomplished folks. It seems that she did. And he makes
(10:21):
the point, look, things work out, but she missed, and
he said, you didn't see the process through. We don't
know what would have happened if we were in private
and for the first time and all of the show
could sit and look at each other without anybody talking
to us or a camera in our face and nothing
going on. You know, but how are we supposed to
get married or engaged if you and I have only
(10:42):
spent a couple of dates together and then the one
chance we get to finally be alone, one on one
with nothing around you say?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Nah, And you know what, I'm not trying to blame
her at all, because this has got to be a
really tough position to be in. But don't you think
that's ego? She felt rejected. She didn't get the confirmation,
the affirmation, the validation that I understand she wanted, but
also she needed to understand the show she was on.
(11:10):
And when he said we had to finish the journey,
but we never got there, there was another person and
she wasn't being I don't think she was giving him
enough rope to be able to experience both and to
make a choice. He said, you wanted a proposal, and
you and because I wouldn't commit to doing that in
that moment, you refuse to go to the fantasy suite.
(11:31):
And again, it wasn't about sex, it was about conversation.
It was about being able to be private. And when
she you know what she said back to him, I
learned enough. That's ego because then she'll say, I still
I loved you. We could have been great, we could
have been amazing. We could have and she still believes that.
But she didn't give him the opportunity to have private
(11:54):
conversation with her.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And we have to respect her for a decision, for
what she did, decided to do, for why she did it,
and everything else. I was fully prepared in watching the
finale to be upset with something male did. I'm like,
wn he did this girl wrong? Or how it went
down when they let it all play out and you
hear it.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, she needed something he couldn't give her.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yes, And it seemed like we didn't. She didn't take
into consideration the criteria, like the circumstances we're on the show.
This is this is different. It's okay. It's possible she
couldn't handle the idea of the next day that roe
Ceram or whatever might have happened and gotten embarrassed. Who knows,
or she just might know her heart. She knows herself
(12:42):
and that's a wrap.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yes, and there are and look, everyone has different needs.
She needs somebody to be all about her and that's fine.
I get that. That's wonderful and that's what she is
now going to have to go try and find.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
But isn't that what any woman, and certainly the ones
in that room clapping and applauding these lines want you
want the guy? What was her line about lightning strike
or something?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
She said? I got it exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I want to feel like a guy got struck by
lightning and can't live without me. That's what's wrong with
wanting that. Nothing everybody's personal preference. It's not for me,
and I don't want to be with somebody who thinks that,
but for others who want that, And you hit every
why not robes? Now you and I go back and
forth about this. Why shouldn't we hold onto the fantasy?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Why shouldn't we Because it's not reality, and it ends up.
If you have expectations that are that high, yes, no
relationship will ever meet those standards, and you will always
be disappointed. And I will say I young, as a
young woman, I did believe that, and now as a
(13:53):
more mature, experienced woman, I now know. And this is
gonna sound so cheesy, Oh, push through it. You have
to be your biggest advocate and your own champion, and
you have to love yourself the most, and then there
is space to love someone else. And you don't have
to require some unfair amount of love that you need
(14:15):
someone to give you. In fact, you can and I'm
not saying to be treated badly, but when you place
all of your expectations of joy, happiness, love, contentment piece
on someone else, you are always going to be disappointed.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
All right, we'll stay with us, folks. When we come back,
we'll get into who he actually picked and why we
think she might be the perfect pick for him. Also,
we'll get into the back and forth. Did we see
really a difference in personalities between mel and Cindy or
is this more of the same man versus woman? And
(14:50):
we'll give Robock to finally answer this question. Can you
prove a commitment short of an engagement ring. Hey that folks,
I promise you, Robock. And I was still going at
it about this story during that short break there, yes
(15:12):
talking about mel Mel has picked his woman on The
Golden Bachelor last night, the big finale. He picked Peg,
the firefighter, former firefighter and bomb expert who from the
jump robes. I you know what, I said, Cindy, that's
the one for him. You liked Peg? I did, and
my response was he can't handle her.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
But you know what, maybe that's exactly what he needs.
And I from the moment she walked onto this show,
there was an energy, there was a confidence. This is
a woman who's been through stuff just like all the
other women, but she has found a way to love herself.
She walks with confidence, she walks like a badass and
she embodies that. And yes, she wasn't the one saying
(15:57):
I love you, pick me. She said, I'm not sure
that I love you, but I like you. Let's see
where this goes. She had a spirit that was just
full of life and without expectations. And wow, I felt
like we could all seriously as women and we all
have our own moments, but I felt like, well, I
want to be like her. I want to be her,
(16:19):
I want.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
To make I don't know how it's coming off, but
we sounded like we liked her. We didn't like her
for this reason or that read the two every one
we said this from the very beginning. This was the
women were carrying this show.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
They were awesome.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
They were all awesome, all impressive. That was a seventy
seven year old woman that walked out there badass with
that dress on. Do you think girl?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
It's you know what? It was a reminder to me
as I'm getting older, like, look, we all want to
look younger and feel younger. That's a thing. I get it,
and you want to hold on to the beauty of
your youth. But the people and the women who I
fell in love with the most, it didn't matter what
they looked like. It didn't matter if they had hair
extensions or whatever work they had done. It was their spirit,
(17:00):
it was their energy, it was their confidence. It's just
a reminder that is the beauty of us getting older,
what we can bring with us, and it's less about
looks and more about who you are. I really saw
that play out watching this show, and that's why I really.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Do think there's such value in these shows, more so
than I mean, some of the stuff is just entertaining.
When you talk about love islands, all of them broke up,
sure that afternoon, but.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
You still learn about dynamics, ego and relationships.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So it's all the same and it plays out here,
and I love that it played out with that extra
element of age. What do you do? Do you have
time to feel it out, to figure it out, to
make sure this is going to work? Or do we
do as Cindy said, you gotta jump in? What leap
of faith?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yes, leap of faith?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
He wasn't willing to do that, and she thought we
should just take a lip of faith and get engaged. Okay,
but where do you fall on that. You're twenty five,
you're in a relationship for five years, don't go well,
thirty still hot, gon't be okay? But when you're sixty,
sixty two, sixty five, like, wow, I need you to
commit and tell me right now after four months? I
(18:16):
think that's real, is it not? I mean, this is
a smaller timeframe, but in the real world, don't you
hold on thought? Do we know a lot of couples
older couples like e hain't let me stick with this
asshole here because I can't. Ain't nobody else out there
for right?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yes, without a doubt, that is that. That is absolutely
a huge factor in people getting together and staying together,
maybe when if they just gave it a beat, they wouldn't.
And I do think there's nothing more lonely than being
in a bad relationship. I'd rather be alone.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
You say that, I think some people would definitely disagree
with you. I would rather have something. Somebody not being
alone is debilitated.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
That's scary as hell to me. I'm not going to
pretend that I do not fear that. Absolutely. I think
that is a fear within us all on some level.
Maybe I don't know, do you have that fear. I
don't think I'm.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Afraid people will be around all the time exactly. You
are an anomaly, but relationship wise, nobody wants you want somebody.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yes, I hate eating alone. I've never been to a
movie alone. So yes, I fully understand that. I also
know how lonely it is to be in a relationship
that you don't want to be in.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Well, this last thing here I mentioned here man versus
woman or was this male versus Cindy personality wise, he's
they used it. I think he was the one that
said it a matter of like, you're no. She might
have said it, You're practical. You're being practical about these
things and I'm making a more emotional decision. You and
I talk about this in everything we do every day.
(19:53):
This comes up practical versus emotional. Practical versus emotional is
I didn't see as soon as as they say that,
I said, oh, sweetheart, I'm ready to go. This is
early in the show, which was an hour and a half, Yes,
like twenty minutes in, I said, I'm done. We can
do the podcast. I got all I need. That jumped
out at me because that is something that plays out
(20:15):
all the time in relationship. It does.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And even his best friend Diane. This is Mel's best friend, Diane,
who met PEG. After she met her, she went to Mel.
She's a lawyer. Mel's a lawyer. I didn't realize this,
so they're very analytical, and she said, don't let your
brain get in the way of your heart. She told
him that that was her advice to him. And I
(20:37):
do think that, yes, if you really think about how
risky it is to get into a relationship with somebody,
how risky it is to propose or get married to somebody.
You're right, it is, so you do kind of at
some point have to just follow your heart. If you
let your brain do all the work, you'll never you'll
(20:57):
never commit to anyone because you're right, you might get hurt,
your ego might be shattered, and that is always on
the line. Always. You don't ever truly know someone, And
certainly when you've been doing it on television, what is
that trust level? Like, it's hard enough in the real world,
let alone when someone might be just doing something for
(21:20):
the camera.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And these people don't know each other, it's impossible to
know each other. After a few months, you can try
your best, but it takes so much.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I love what Peg and Mel said to each other
in the live when they were reunited, And I have
to tell you, I don't think I'm being hoodwinked here.
They looked absolutely magical together, like happy, and it all
worked out the way it was supposed to. But she
had zero expectations, and I thought that was so cool
because that just allowed for the relationship to develop as
(21:50):
it should in whatever way it was going to. And
he told her this. I trusted you, and you trusted me.
You told me that you knew I would make the
right decision. How cool is that? I mean, that takes
a lot of confidence. She knew there was another woman,
and she still was able to say that, like she
knew she was gonna be okay either way. Put your
(22:11):
heart out there to an extent, but just let it
be and don't force it. You can't force someone. If
you try to force someone to pros to you, I
don't think it's ever gonna work.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
She understood the show, she understood the assignment, and she
understands herself better than anybody. She is going to be okay,
you pick me or you don't. I have no control
over that. I am just PEG. Go back and watch
the season and watch PEG from episode one to the finale,
and you'll see a different type of person whose joy
(22:43):
came from somewhere within that had nothing to do with
everything going around and when you let.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Go cause look and again, I thought that Cindy was
a beautiful, wonderful person.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
He's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
But I have to say when it's such a lesson,
if you can just let go of trying to control everything,
if you can. It's so hard to do and trust.
As Gabby Bernstein says, the universe has your back. Things
start to fall into place when you try to control things,
and she, by leaving controlled the outcome.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Not to control an outcome the other person didn't, and
look at where it ended up. The last thing I
wanted to make sure, I asked here, I want if
people can hear that boat out.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Back going by the very loud voat Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Sorry, we were recording here in our studio at home,
and there's a river right outside of the window, and
apparently the biggest boat ever is going by right now.
But the last question I said, I don't want to
ask you, can you prove a commitment to a woman
short of an engagement.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
That's a really good question, and I think it depends
on the woman. I think yes, the answer is absolutely yes.
How by what you say, how you act, what you do.
I mean that a woman feels what what Cindy wasn't
getting from Mel And this is because of the cameras
(24:04):
in the show itself. Some reassurance, you need verbal reassurance,
you need physical reassurance, and I think you need consistency.
But yes, the trust at some point you do have
to just put your trust in someone else. But I
do think it's by showing up every day. It's by consistency,
(24:25):
it's by being in that person's life every day. It's
about how you.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Act practical things because I hear what you're saying, and
no one and I think include being you would accept
those things. Right. Wow, shows up every day, He's very engaged,
says he loves me, do all the right things. But
he still lives there. I still live here. We still
don't know this person in his life while you talk
(24:50):
about things. Somebody can give you every bit of love,
but there is something or some signal that still oftentimes
people look for to think okay, not engage. No, he's
okay with me.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I have it for you. So I really do think
that I said this to you because we struggled with
this a little for a while. I mean, we were
together for just about three years before you proposed. But
I will say this, I wanted an hour's. I didn't
want a mine and a yours. And for me, the
commitment was having an hours and having our life together
(25:25):
and merging our lives together. I preferred to be married
and to have an engagement. But if you didn't and
we had this conversation, I was okay with that, but
I wanted us to live together. I wanted us to
be together. We didn't have to have the even though
I will fully say here, I prefer it, even though
we don't have to have the legal document that says X,
(25:46):
Y and Z, and it's harder for you to leave
because then you'd have to get a divorce. I don't
want anyone to be with me who feels like they
have to for money or legal reasons. But I do
think that making the commitment to merger lives together is
what it it that was what I needed. I can't
speak for all of them.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
So you said merging lives. Can you merge lives short
of living together?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
No, because you still have one foot out the door
for me. No.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
When you break this down to what we're talking about now,
the only way you can show commitment live together. Give
me a ring for me?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
What do you think it is for most women?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yes? I think it's the same because because I feel
like if you're keeping your options open by keeping your
own place, you've got one foot out the door.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
You're not fully in.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
You're not fully in.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Okay, folks, we might have to do a part too,
because you just said something, Now, how is a foot
out the door?
Speaker 2 (26:40):
You got one foot in one door and one foot
in another door. It feels like that.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Oh man, Okay, folks, we do encourage you. Go back.
If you haven't seen, here we go again promoting an
ABC show. But if you haven't seen Golden Bachelor, we
encourage it because we do believe it. There are great
lessons in there for all of us. Whether it has
to do is relationships, how to treat others, how to
view others, what you should recognize in others, and frankly
(27:07):
just being happy with yourself. And particularly take a look
at Peg and Cindy from the very first to the end.
Now that you know the outcome, I like watching.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
It is kind of cool once you already know. And
I and also just want to say this, I actually
loved the ending. It wasn't a proposal, it was a
promise ring And then a few months later because they
always have to keep it secret while they're putting the
show together and having an air but when we saw
them together for the first time, when they announced, when
we all knew that they were together or an item,
he said, I'm in love with her, and then she said,
(27:39):
and I'm in love with him one hundred percent. And
I love what Jesse Palmer said at the end the
host it worked. He almost sounded surprise.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Jesse was shocked and Jesse, we're gonna call you too, man.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
We have a We love Jesse, we love us, We
miss Jesse.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
We miss Jesse. Well. Georgia game was the last time
we talked to him this season. But we yeah, we're
gonna We're gonna talk to Jesse about We take issue
with some of the tones. Sometimes during during the episodes,
we'll be hollering at you, Jesse, but folks, we always
appreciate you listening to us. We do encourage you to
go back and watch it. But it's been It was fascinating.
(28:15):
We might have to do a part two robes and
you said something that fired me up, So all right,
stay tuned.
Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, November thirteenth, and a
central question in the grand finale of The Golden Bachelor
last night was can you truly prove your commitment short
of an engagement? Well, we got the answer last night.
The thing is, I'm still not exactly sure what it
(00:23):
is Robes And with that, welcome to this episode of
Amy and TJ. Right. That was central to it the
grand finale. We know who Mel picked, but so much
more time was spent on the woman he didn't pick
and why.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
It was an interesting case in how we fall in love,
who we trust, and perhaps even how you handle putting
your heart out there at an older age versus a
younger age. You know, like, how willing are you to trust?
What does time mean to you when you're in your sixties.
It's very different than when you're in your twenties or
(01:00):
thirties or even forties.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
This was a rope. This is a great, great, great show.
I didn't think that the whole season, but when it
all comes together with these relationship themes, and I love
the idea of throwing people in their older ages second chance.
What's on the line? Risk you take everything you just
hit on played out last night. If you haven't been
watching over the season, what was a good chance A
(01:22):
lot of you have not, because this has been a
really low rated season. And I think I've seen just
about everybody places the blame in one place for why
it's been a lowly rated season.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yes, everyone is blaming mel Owens because he's such a good,
nice guy. He's not controversial, he's not over the top.
He's not saying outlandish things or rude things, or even
super loving things. He's playing it straight forward. He's being
true to himself. He's a Michigander, my god, through and through.
(01:53):
I know them well. I come from a long line
of them. And that maybe didn't make for exciting, explosive television.
I used to seeing.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Boring, Yes, boring period. Now you I love that. You
were so delicate now you put that.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
But sometimes life is boring, you know what I mean,
Like I think, but not on television. You don't want
to watch it bad it.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Is, thank you, And I think most people tell you
life is pretty exciting. Oh, in one way or another.
Sometimes it's bad. But this was a case this guy,
and I think, how good and everything you talk about
Michigander came through even more so in these final episodes
because he did something that a lot of women wish
that guys would do. He was honest, yeah, and she
(02:38):
didn't like the answer. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
You know, he reminds me a lot of my dad,
maybe that I'm I feel like I know him because
he is that that guy that every girl wants, and
yet you can't make him or force him to feel,
or do or say what you want them to. And
I think that is what we saw from one of
the final to Women six, Cindy. She's sixty years old
(03:01):
and she wanted him to she said, not be able
to live without her. And I remember I looked at
you when she said that I want somebody who can't
live without me, and I thought that was interesting. That
sounds like something someone would say in their twenties, and
even now, as a woman in her fifties, I can
honestly say to you, I want you to be able
(03:23):
to live without me. I want you to choose me.
I want you to want to spend your life with me.
But I don't need you to want to live to
not be able to live without me. That seems far fetched.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
That's year's life learning experience. Yes, but in defense of women.
And we've heard some things she said, and there was
a live audience. They were women were applauding.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
She got standing ovations multiple times.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Some of the things she was saying, you find, and
I find other people would say that is unhealthy. You
shouldn't need anybody for your happiness. You should need to
provide it to anybody else. And she at times, and
some of the things she was saying include that one
in particular makes you sit up and stop. And I
said to you, that is the thing that's probably that
(04:08):
scares the hell out of guys.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And it scares the hell out of me. Having look,
we've lived enough life. But I've talked about this before.
It's this fairy tale that a lot of us women
are sold. From the moment we can consume any kind
of media, we're told our Prince Charming is out there.
And yes, the narratives are starting to shift with Disney movies,
et cetera. But it also feels very forced, like, oh, yeah,
(04:30):
my true love is my sister or my true love
is myself. Okay, I get that, but the reality is
most of us are told that our prince is waiting
for us, and He's gonna save us from all of
our problems, and it seemed like Cindy was suffering from
that and then being applauded by and supported by other
women who also believe in that. She made a lot
(04:52):
of lines that contribute to that narrative. I don't need
I don't need to convince a man to love me.
I'm not interested in being put on hold. She was
so invested in the outcome, and I get that that
she missed the journey. Dare I say the journey, But
that's a word used a lot on these shows, and
on this one in particular. But she wasn't interested in
(05:15):
the process or in the development. She wanted the happy
ending immediately.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Okay, So I have to at least in her defense
or excuse me, at least a part of the conversation,
and it was a part of the finale as well,
was about the outcome. Where you come onto the show,
she kept arguing understanding what the outcome is supposed to be.
She made the argument that all twenty three of these
women that came here, mel you left them with the
(05:41):
impression just by coming on the show that there was
an engagement at the end, and.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You know, what And I think, yes, that has been
the case in some of the circumstances, and a lot
of the audience is hoping and waiting for that. But
he was there to find someone. He was there to
find a partner. And I believe that he just said
I can't tell you that I'm here to propose, and
that offended her argument.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yes, but should he have understood that these twenty three
women expect that and he needs to deliver it, because
that was the impression she gave, or at least the argument,
like you brought us here, she had one point set
that like all of us here, she did, I have
an expectation of an engagement at the end. The woman
he picked sure didn't. But ultimately, but this woman did.
(06:27):
Is that a fair argument that mel It wasn't okay
for you to tell me that maybe there's not an engagement.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I think it's totally fair. I mean, come on, she's
not a show, yes, but this is still life. We're
talking about real life. This might be a TV show,
but life continues after the show. And I thought he
was actually really smart. It wasn't as if he just said, oh,
I'm not going to end up with anybody I'm doing this.
Do you really think that mel was doing it for
publicity or doing it to make a name for himself
(06:55):
or to get some extra cash on the side. I
do believe he was there to find a partner, and
I actually think it's more valuable and more genuine for
him to say, uh that he was looking for a
partner and that could lead to an engagement and a wife.
But it didn't necessarily mean it had to happen in
that moment, on that day.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
The other issue with it possibly uh In. I don't
know whose favorites this is in, but the timing we
taught timing two things having to do with age and
having to do with how much time they got to
spend together on this show, it is unreasonable to start
dating somebody and to think in four months you need
to propose in real life that's on that's unreasonable now.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
And yes, and if that person is dating twenty three
other people in the beginning of it, that also waters
down the time you have to get to know someone.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
But again that worked against them. But is that the
absurdity of possibly a show like this maybe should take
that out of hell. Even Jesse was a former bachelor,
he didn't propose what it means to me? The first
one that yes, okay, so it happens, but I have
never seen I haven't watched the show enough. Like someone's
(08:06):
so upset that you, while you're still considering another woman,
won't sit here and tell me that you are going
to be willing to get engaged to me, is her argument. Look,
if that's where she is, we have to respect it.
I just I can't fault Mel for being practical.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Neither can I. And look, Cindy seems I mean, she's
obviously an very intelligent woman. She's a mother of three,
She's gone through a lot, she's a biomedical she was
a biomedical engineer. Yes, but what I thought was sad
on her end. And look, look I get it. These
are real feelings, and I think that is what this show,
in this episode certainly proved this season. She was hurt,
(08:48):
she wanted him to be all about her, and I
do think that was unreasonable going for her. She pointed
that Mel was unreasonable for maybe not automatically saying I'm
going to propose to someone at the end, I think
she was unreasonable to believe that she should have been
held up on a pedestal higher than all the other women.
(09:08):
She wanted to have the lightning bolt. She wanted to
have him say I'll do anything, You're the one, and
that's not what the show's about. And even if he
did feel that way, the show would never want him
to say that while there are still two people in Antigua,
where there are still two women, and she wanted confirmation,
she wanted validation, and he couldn't give it to her,
(09:30):
and so instead of and he pointed this out in
the live reunion, which was an awkward, awkward moment on
the show, but he made a really good point, we
never got to go to the fantasy suite. And she
kind of was like, well, you didn't earn the right to,
but he said, no, this wasn't about being intimate with you,
This wasn't about having sex. This was an opportunity to
(09:52):
talk without the microphone, without the cameras, and you denied
us that opportunity because on.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Camera you wouldn't do what I told you you needed
to do. Now I have seen you, we don't know
this show. She's been pleasant throughout Ashley from the very beginning.
I said, that's my girl. Yeah, I said, that's the
one he's going to end up with. You did think
that that's the one? So she all these are pleasant,
accomplished folks. It seems that she did. And he makes
(10:21):
the point, look, things work out, but she missed, and
he said, you didn't see the process through. We don't
know what would have happened if we were in private
and for the first time and all of the show
could sit and look at each other without anybody talking
to us or a camera in our face and nothing
going on. You know, but how are we supposed to
get married or engaged if you and I have only
(10:42):
spent a couple of dates together and then the one
chance we get to finally be alone, one on one
with nothing around you say?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Nah, And you know what, I'm not trying to blame
her at all, because this has got to be a
really tough position to be in. But don't you think
that's ego? She felt rejected. She didn't get the confirmation,
the affirmation, the validation that I understand she wanted, but
also she needed to understand the show she was on.
(11:10):
And when he said we had to finish the journey,
but we never got there, there was another person and
she wasn't being I don't think she was giving him
enough rope to be able to experience both and to
make a choice. He said, you wanted a proposal, and
you and because I wouldn't commit to doing that in
that moment, you refuse to go to the fantasy suite.
(11:31):
And again, it wasn't about sex, it was about conversation.
It was about being able to be private. And when
she you know what she said back to him, I
learned enough. That's ego because then she'll say, I still
I loved you. We could have been great, we could
have been amazing. We could have and she still believes that.
But she didn't give him the opportunity to have private
(11:54):
conversation with her.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And we have to respect her for a decision, for
what she did, decided to do, for why she did it,
and everything else. I was fully prepared in watching the
finale to be upset with something male did. I'm like,
wn he did this girl wrong? Or how it went
down when they let it all play out and you
hear it.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, she needed something he couldn't give her.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yes, And it seemed like we didn't. She didn't take
into consideration the criteria, like the circumstances we're on the show.
This is this is different. It's okay. It's possible she
couldn't handle the idea of the next day that roe
Ceram or whatever might have happened and gotten embarrassed. Who knows,
or she just might know her heart. She knows herself
(12:42):
and that's a wrap.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yes, and there are and look, everyone has different needs.
She needs somebody to be all about her and that's fine.
I get that. That's wonderful and that's what she is
now going to have to go try and find.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
But isn't that what any woman, and certainly the ones
in that room clapping and applauding these lines want you
want the guy? What was her line about lightning strike
or something?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
She said? I got it exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I want to feel like a guy got struck by
lightning and can't live without me. That's what's wrong with
wanting that. Nothing everybody's personal preference. It's not for me,
and I don't want to be with somebody who thinks that,
but for others who want that, And you hit every
why not robes? Now you and I go back and
forth about this. Why shouldn't we hold onto the fantasy?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Why shouldn't we Because it's not reality, and it ends up.
If you have expectations that are that high, yes, no
relationship will ever meet those standards, and you will always
be disappointed. And I will say I young, as a
young woman, I did believe that, and now as a
(13:53):
more mature, experienced woman, I now know. And this is
gonna sound so cheesy, Oh, push through it. You have
to be your biggest advocate and your own champion, and
you have to love yourself the most, and then there
is space to love someone else. And you don't have
to require some unfair amount of love that you need
(14:15):
someone to give you. In fact, you can and I'm
not saying to be treated badly, but when you place
all of your expectations of joy, happiness, love, contentment piece
on someone else, you are always going to be disappointed.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
All right, we'll stay with us, folks. When we come back,
we'll get into who he actually picked and why we
think she might be the perfect pick for him. Also,
we'll get into the back and forth. Did we see
really a difference in personalities between mel and Cindy or
is this more of the same man versus woman? And
(14:50):
we'll give Robock to finally answer this question. Can you
prove a commitment short of an engagement ring. Hey that folks,
I promise you, Robock. And I was still going at
it about this story during that short break there, yes
(15:12):
talking about mel Mel has picked his woman on The
Golden Bachelor last night, the big finale. He picked Peg,
the firefighter, former firefighter and bomb expert who from the
jump robes. I you know what, I said, Cindy, that's
the one for him. You liked Peg? I did, and
my response was he can't handle her.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
But you know what, maybe that's exactly what he needs.
And I from the moment she walked onto this show,
there was an energy, there was a confidence. This is
a woman who's been through stuff just like all the
other women, but she has found a way to love herself.
She walks with confidence, she walks like a badass and
she embodies that. And yes, she wasn't the one saying
(15:57):
I love you, pick me. She said, I'm not sure
that I love you, but I like you. Let's see
where this goes. She had a spirit that was just
full of life and without expectations. And wow, I felt
like we could all seriously as women and we all
have our own moments, but I felt like, well, I
want to be like her. I want to be her,
(16:19):
I want.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
To make I don't know how it's coming off, but
we sounded like we liked her. We didn't like her
for this reason or that read the two every one
we said this from the very beginning. This was the
women were carrying this show.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
They were awesome.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
They were all awesome, all impressive. That was a seventy
seven year old woman that walked out there badass with
that dress on. Do you think girl?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
It's you know what? It was a reminder to me
as I'm getting older, like, look, we all want to
look younger and feel younger. That's a thing. I get it,
and you want to hold on to the beauty of
your youth. But the people and the women who I
fell in love with the most, it didn't matter what
they looked like. It didn't matter if they had hair
extensions or whatever work they had done. It was their spirit,
(17:00):
it was their energy, it was their confidence. It's just
a reminder that is the beauty of us getting older,
what we can bring with us, and it's less about
looks and more about who you are. I really saw
that play out watching this show, and that's why I really.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Do think there's such value in these shows, more so
than I mean, some of the stuff is just entertaining.
When you talk about love islands, all of them broke up,
sure that afternoon, but.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
You still learn about dynamics, ego and relationships.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So it's all the same and it plays out here,
and I love that it played out with that extra
element of age. What do you do? Do you have
time to feel it out, to figure it out, to
make sure this is going to work? Or do we
do as Cindy said, you gotta jump in? What leap
of faith?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yes, leap of faith?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
He wasn't willing to do that, and she thought we
should just take a lip of faith and get engaged. Okay,
but where do you fall on that. You're twenty five,
you're in a relationship for five years, don't go well,
thirty still hot, gon't be okay? But when you're sixty,
sixty two, sixty five, like, wow, I need you to
commit and tell me right now after four months? I
(18:16):
think that's real, is it not? I mean, this is
a smaller timeframe, but in the real world, don't you
hold on thought? Do we know a lot of couples
older couples like e hain't let me stick with this
asshole here because I can't. Ain't nobody else out there
for right?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yes, without a doubt, that is that. That is absolutely
a huge factor in people getting together and staying together,
maybe when if they just gave it a beat, they wouldn't.
And I do think there's nothing more lonely than being
in a bad relationship. I'd rather be alone.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
You say that, I think some people would definitely disagree
with you. I would rather have something. Somebody not being
alone is debilitated.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
That's scary as hell to me. I'm not going to
pretend that I do not fear that. Absolutely. I think
that is a fear within us all on some level.
Maybe I don't know, do you have that fear. I
don't think I'm.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Afraid people will be around all the time exactly. You
are an anomaly, but relationship wise, nobody wants you want somebody.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yes, I hate eating alone. I've never been to a
movie alone. So yes, I fully understand that. I also
know how lonely it is to be in a relationship
that you don't want to be in.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Well, this last thing here I mentioned here man versus
woman or was this male versus Cindy personality wise, he's
they used it. I think he was the one that
said it a matter of like, you're no. She might
have said it, You're practical. You're being practical about these
things and I'm making a more emotional decision. You and
I talk about this in everything we do every day.
(19:53):
This comes up practical versus emotional. Practical versus emotional is
I didn't see as soon as as they say that,
I said, oh, sweetheart, I'm ready to go. This is
early in the show, which was an hour and a half, Yes,
like twenty minutes in, I said, I'm done. We can
do the podcast. I got all I need. That jumped
out at me because that is something that plays out
(20:15):
all the time in relationship. It does.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And even his best friend Diane. This is Mel's best friend, Diane,
who met PEG. After she met her, she went to Mel.
She's a lawyer. Mel's a lawyer. I didn't realize this,
so they're very analytical, and she said, don't let your
brain get in the way of your heart. She told
him that that was her advice to him. And I
(20:37):
do think that, yes, if you really think about how
risky it is to get into a relationship with somebody,
how risky it is to propose or get married to somebody.
You're right, it is, so you do kind of at
some point have to just follow your heart. If you
let your brain do all the work, you'll never you'll
(20:57):
never commit to anyone because you're right, you might get hurt,
your ego might be shattered, and that is always on
the line. Always. You don't ever truly know someone, And
certainly when you've been doing it on television, what is
that trust level? Like, it's hard enough in the real world,
let alone when someone might be just doing something for
(21:20):
the camera.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And these people don't know each other, it's impossible to
know each other. After a few months, you can try
your best, but it takes so much.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I love what Peg and Mel said to each other
in the live when they were reunited, And I have
to tell you, I don't think I'm being hoodwinked here.
They looked absolutely magical together, like happy, and it all
worked out the way it was supposed to. But she
had zero expectations, and I thought that was so cool
because that just allowed for the relationship to develop as
(21:50):
it should in whatever way it was going to. And
he told her this. I trusted you, and you trusted me.
You told me that you knew I would make the
right decision. How cool is that? I mean, that takes
a lot of confidence. She knew there was another woman,
and she still was able to say that, like she
knew she was gonna be okay either way. Put your
(22:11):
heart out there to an extent, but just let it
be and don't force it. You can't force someone. If
you try to force someone to pros to you, I
don't think it's ever gonna work.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
She understood the show, she understood the assignment, and she
understands herself better than anybody. She is going to be okay,
you pick me or you don't. I have no control
over that. I am just PEG. Go back and watch
the season and watch PEG from episode one to the finale,
and you'll see a different type of person whose joy
(22:43):
came from somewhere within that had nothing to do with
everything going around and when you let.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Go cause look and again, I thought that Cindy was
a beautiful, wonderful person.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
He's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
But I have to say when it's such a lesson,
if you can just let go of trying to control everything,
if you can. It's so hard to do and trust.
As Gabby Bernstein says, the universe has your back. Things
start to fall into place when you try to control things,
and she, by leaving controlled the outcome.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Not to control an outcome the other person didn't, and
look at where it ended up. The last thing I
wanted to make sure, I asked here, I want if
people can hear that boat out.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Back going by the very loud voat Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Sorry, we were recording here in our studio at home,
and there's a river right outside of the window, and
apparently the biggest boat ever is going by right now.
But the last question I said, I don't want to
ask you, can you prove a commitment to a woman
short of an engagement.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
That's a really good question, and I think it depends
on the woman. I think yes, the answer is absolutely yes.
How by what you say, how you act, what you do.
I mean that a woman feels what what Cindy wasn't
getting from Mel And this is because of the cameras
(24:04):
in the show itself. Some reassurance, you need verbal reassurance,
you need physical reassurance, and I think you need consistency.
But yes, the trust at some point you do have
to just put your trust in someone else. But I
do think it's by showing up every day. It's by consistency,
(24:25):
it's by being in that person's life every day. It's
about how you.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Act practical things because I hear what you're saying, and
no one and I think include being you would accept
those things. Right. Wow, shows up every day, He's very engaged,
says he loves me, do all the right things. But
he still lives there. I still live here. We still
don't know this person in his life while you talk
(24:50):
about things. Somebody can give you every bit of love,
but there is something or some signal that still oftentimes
people look for to think okay, not engage. No, he's
okay with me.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I have it for you. So I really do think
that I said this to you because we struggled with
this a little for a while. I mean, we were
together for just about three years before you proposed. But
I will say this, I wanted an hour's. I didn't
want a mine and a yours. And for me, the
commitment was having an hours and having our life together
(25:25):
and merging our lives together. I preferred to be married
and to have an engagement. But if you didn't and
we had this conversation, I was okay with that, but
I wanted us to live together. I wanted us to
be together. We didn't have to have the even though
I will fully say here, I prefer it, even though
we don't have to have the legal document that says X,
(25:46):
Y and Z, and it's harder for you to leave
because then you'd have to get a divorce. I don't
want anyone to be with me who feels like they
have to for money or legal reasons. But I do
think that making the commitment to merger lives together is
what it it that was what I needed. I can't
speak for all of them.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
So you said merging lives. Can you merge lives short
of living together?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
No, because you still have one foot out the door
for me. No.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
When you break this down to what we're talking about now,
the only way you can show commitment live together. Give
me a ring for me?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
What do you think it is for most women?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yes? I think it's the same because because I feel
like if you're keeping your options open by keeping your
own place, you've got one foot out the door.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
You're not fully in.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
You're not fully in.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Okay, folks, we might have to do a part too,
because you just said something, Now, how is a foot
out the door?
Speaker 2 (26:40):
You got one foot in one door and one foot
in another door. It feels like that.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Oh man, Okay, folks, we do encourage you. Go back.
If you haven't seen, here we go again promoting an
ABC show. But if you haven't seen Golden Bachelor, we
encourage it because we do believe it. There are great
lessons in there for all of us. Whether it has
to do is relationships, how to treat others, how to
view others, what you should recognize in others, and frankly
(27:07):
just being happy with yourself. And particularly take a look
at Peg and Cindy from the very first to the end.
Now that you know the outcome, I like watching.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
It is kind of cool once you already know. And
I and also just want to say this, I actually
loved the ending. It wasn't a proposal, it was a
promise ring And then a few months later because they
always have to keep it secret while they're putting the
show together and having an air but when we saw
them together for the first time, when they announced, when
we all knew that they were together or an item,
he said, I'm in love with her, and then she said,
(27:39):
and I'm in love with him one hundred percent. And
I love what Jesse Palmer said at the end the
host it worked. He almost sounded surprise.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Jesse was shocked and Jesse, we're gonna call you too, man.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
We have a We love Jesse, we love us, We
miss Jesse.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
We miss Jesse. Well. Georgia game was the last time
we talked to him this season. But we yeah, we're
gonna We're gonna talk to Jesse about We take issue
with some of the tones. Sometimes during during the episodes,
we'll be hollering at you, Jesse, but folks, we always
appreciate you listening to us. We do encourage you to
go back and watch it. But it's been It was fascinating.
(28:15):
We might have to do a part two robes and
you said something that fired me up, So all right,
stay tuned.
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