November 13, 2025 • 25 mins
It was an exceptionally rare day in Oklahoma today. With just minutes to spare before Tremane Wood’s scheduled execution, Republican governor Kevin Stitt made the unusual move to accept the Pardon and Parole Board’s recommendation and commuted Wood’s death sentence to life without parole. Amy and T.J. have been following this case since the Parole Board made its decision, and after speaking with Wood’s family earlier in the week, share their thoughts on this decision that had nothing to do with guilt or innocence, but had everything to do with the fairness of our justice system and the wishes of the victim’s family.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, there are folks. It is Thursday, November thirteenth, and
he's just a little while ago. Actually, a man was
sitting in a room next to a death chamber waiting
to be taken in and executed. He had been served
his last meal and he was minutes away from going
into that death chamber when he got word that his
(00:22):
life was being spared by the governor of Oklahoma. And
with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes.
We can't believe almost that this happened. These are so rare,
and this is a case for whatever reason, we got
very close to and interested in. Lo and behold today
(00:43):
a man's life was.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Spared, and within minutes it was as dramatic as it gets.
And yes, we spoke with Tremaine Wood's family just two
days ago. They could barely speak about his potential impending
death without sobbing. Under Standably, we were on the edge
of our seats waiting to see if the Governor of
(01:04):
Oklahoma was going to go ahead and grant the clemency
that a Pardon and Parole board had recommended the week before.
And tick talk, tick talk, we were all the way
up to ten at the East coast time, ten fifty seven,
ten fifty eight. He was scheduled to die by lethal
(01:26):
injection at eleven am Eastern time ten am local time,
and just before it hit eleven here we got word.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And we talked about this, Robes. I was saying to you,
I mean, these are so rare that it does happen
that the governor grant's clemency, And I said, you know
the ones we've heard about oftentimes, it's not like we
seen the movies, like they're somebody strapped to the chair
and the phone rings on the wall. That's not usually
how it goes down, but it can't. It went down
like that to a great degree today. Now Tremaine Wood
(01:57):
was sitting waiting to be executed. They had moved in
to this holding cell essentially right next door to the
death chamber, and that's where he had been. It was
one of your first questions, rogues, when it had gotten
so close to the hour, the execution hour, You like,
good God, was he strapped to that gurney? Was he
ready to be Was he in there? And then the
(02:19):
call came that's not the case. I can't imagine how
dramatic and what that would have felt like, but still
what he went through today, can you imagine what that
felt like?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
It had to be pretty close to that, short of
being strapped to the gurney. He was in what they
called death watch, and he'd been in death watch for
a couple of days. Can you imagine eating the meal
that you requested as your final meal, your last meal,
knowing this most likely, I mean, you would have to
prepare yourself mentally. And when we spoke to his mother
(02:50):
and his nieces, they said he told them, whether they
believed him or not, that he was ready to die.
If that's what was meant to be, all of the
mental olympics that must have been going on in his head.
And yes, I was imagining being his mother, I was
imagining being his nieces or anyone who loved him. And
what this time we were spending our morning working and
(03:14):
just I was trying to think about what they must
be going through so to have the outcome that they
were obviously hoping for, wishing for, praying for, but wanting
not to be waiting for. And yet that moment came
and you said it to me, The governor just granted clements.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I could. I don't know, it's a case maybe that
screams for this. I we'll share the governor's statement here
in a moment, but it seems to be a case
that screamed for mercy, taking a taking a moment, or
even being humane if you will, to someone who is
now not going to get out of jail for the
(03:54):
rest of his life, who was admitted he was a
part of this criming which somebody died. But again the
argument that he wasn't necessarily the killer, all that stuff.
The governor and I said it to you when I
read the statement, I said, he struck the right. He
sounds like he's got a good head on his shoulder.
I know he's a governor. I don't mean it that way.
What I'm saying is it sounded just level headed and
from the head and heart was combined. And when I
(04:18):
see a politician do that, I'll give them credit.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
It was amazing. And look, he was and is a
Republican governor. And that should be pointed out because by
and large, Republican governors tend to be pro death penalty,
and so to have a Republican governor step in and
grant clemency, it's rare enough for any governor to do so.
But certainly for our Republican governor to do so.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
What is this sixteen? There have been sixteen executions under
his watch, correct there in his term, but I always
missed the number on the parole board versus he doesn't
always go with what the para.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So Tremaine included over his tenure of seven years as governor,
the Pardons and Parole Board has recommended that five death
sentences be commuted to life in prison without the possibility
of parole. Before Tremaine, he had only agreed or granted
(05:12):
that clemency once. So Tremaine makes it twice. So two
out of the five times the Parole Board recommended clemency,
he has now granted it. Now, it's rare for a
Pardon's and Parole board to recommend clemency period. But obviously,
as we look at so many states when the death penalty,
since the death penalty has been reinstated, we have had
(05:35):
dozens of inmates on death row actually exonerated. So look,
I do appreciate, we appreciate when governors and leaders take
their very important position seriously in moments of life or death,
and it seems that this was the case with Governor
stt Governor Kevin Stitt, and we mentioned the extenuating circumstances
(05:56):
in this case. We have now this is our third
podcast on this in pen execution, and there were a
lot of reasons why the governor made the decision he made,
and certainly a lot of folks were absolutely fighting for
the life of Tremaine Wood.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Look and part of what the argument that the governor
may will share his full statement, but Tremaine Wood and
his brother were part of a botched robbery in which
a nineteen year old young man was killed. This was
on New Year's Day two thousand and two. His brother
was sentenced to life in prison without parole. Tremayne was
(06:35):
sentenced to death two separate trials. Now, the argument here
is twofold right for Tremain Wood. One of them is
everybody agrees he got inadequate counsel. His council put in
an embarrassing amount of hours logged, and there were substance
abuse involved. Everybody agrees he got a very very bad lawyer.
(06:59):
The other part of the story is that Tremaine would
his brother as well said it was not Tremaine but
the brother who actually stabbed the gentleman, ending up killing him. Now,
Tremaine's brother has since died in prison by suicide, so
he's not speaking about it anymore. But he spoke before
(07:20):
he died and said it was him and not his brother.
So the argument there, I mean, why is that fair
that two guys same crime, The guy who says he
killed the man gets life in prison, the guy who
didn't actually do the killing gets death. Folks didn't think
that made sense, Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
And the governor agreed, And the big hang up was,
actually it was the technicality in the juror instructions that
ended up having or swaying the parole board to vote
three to two to push for clemency versus the death penalty.
And you know, the governor said he was going to
take his time, as he does with all of these
(08:02):
death penalty cases. He spoke to the Attorney General, who
was adamant he wanted to see Tremaine Wood die by
lethal injection, and he stands by that. He says he
was disappointed in the governor's decision to grant clemency. He
spoke to the victim's family and this was a big deal,
and we know that publicly they have said that they
(08:24):
did not want Tremaine Wood to die by lethal injection.
They were against his execution, and so he spoke to
that family as well, and that had to have been
a powerful conversation. And then he spoke to Tremaine Wood's
attorneys as well, who reiterated all of those points. We
just made that he had clear and adequate, inept representation,
(08:46):
and there were absolutely questions about how his case was
handled in terms of what the jury heard, what they
should consider when it came to issuing the death penalty
or not.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Do you have the governor's statement in front of you.
I do, Governess did again. I've give him credit. This
came out and all those things, but it sounds like
he considered all of the things you would hope a
governor will consider.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, So this is what the governor said just moments
past eleven a m. Eastern time. Here, after a thorough
review of the facts and prayerful consideration, I have chosen
to accept the Pardon and Parole Board's recommendation to commute
Tremaine Wood sentence to life without parole. This action reflects
the same punishment his brother received for their murder of
(09:30):
an innocent young man and ensures a severe punishment that
keeps a violent offender off the streets forever. In Oklahoma,
we continue to hold accountable those who commit violent crimes,
delivering justice, safeguarding our communities, and respecting the rule of law.
I pray for the family of Ronnie Wiffe and for
the surviving victim, Arnie. They are models of Christian forgiveness
(09:54):
and love. I love how he ended that, because that
basically reflected the victim's families willingness to say we don't
want Tremaine Wood to die.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Every governor listening, if the family of the victim says, Governor,
please don't kill this person, you gotta listen. I know
a lot of governors you hear all the time. The
people will have to do what the people want, and
the people are the ones who say this person should die.
Just that is the one voice. And it sounded like
he listened to him and I I don't know, And
(10:25):
there was a Most people will in a moment like
this say how could you defend the murderer? How could
you think about the victim's family? And they're not getting
justice or closure. They're the ones who didn't want it
to happen. They didn't so this should be and it's
a weird thing to celebrate. And we talked about this
(10:46):
robes because we were and we were emotional in getting
the news. It seemed like someone would take it as
how can you celebrate that this monster, this killer, this
murderer is getting to live. That's not it if you
just think of it, that a human beings life was
spared today for whatever reason, that's got to be worth something.
(11:10):
And I think we felt that more than we expected
to feel that today.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
And no one is saying that Tremaine Wood should be freed,
that he should be let go, that he deserves freedom.
It's not that at all. He is going to be
behind bars for the remainder of his life. But the
question is whether or not his life can have value,
whether or not his life can have meaning. And if
(11:33):
you listen to our podcast couple back, where we spoke
to his mother, we spoke to his young nieces, we
would urge you to do so and decide for yourself
after hearing from them.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, value, Yeah, there's value there. There's a lot going
on and the family and challenges and he has been
some steady presence in their lives. And you know what,
you and I was wowed by it that the grandma
was saying she was taking the kids to see him
(12:07):
in prison when they were a month old, when they
were babies, because she thought it was important for them
and for him. She has fostered this relationship, this family dynamic.
I thought that was a heroic of her.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I do too, And one of the many things that
got me, that really got me. Look, we all in
this country want to break the cycle of violence, do
we not? And when his mother said he told her
one of the last times she saw him, and she
didn't know if it was going to be the last
time she saw him or was able to talk to him,
he said, mom, I broke the cycle of violence. He
(12:44):
has two sons who are now grown, he's got nieces,
he's got nephews, there are great grandchildren now, and there
are no troubles with the law. And he said, I
am the cautionary tale. And through his example of saying,
don't be me, stay in school, be kind, don't resort
to violence, that message, at least to his inner circle, resonated.
(13:08):
He was the example of what not to do. And
he proudly wore that and encouraged And I mean, if
you listen to his nieces. They worship him. And it's
weird to think that young kids who seemingly have bright
futures are looking up to their uncle or their relative
(13:29):
who is a convicted murderer and who was on death row.
That doesn't seem like a likely hero or a mentor.
And yet if you listen to these young folks, he
has been and that is pretty awesome by him being
in prison. And he was kind of like, look where
I am in my situation. It broke the cycle of
violence in our family, and for that I'm grateful.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
It was the last thing he said to the parole
board when he made his presentation. He asked them to
see him as someone whose life has value. It was
the last thing he said to them. And then we
got a chance to talk to the nieces. I'm floored
at how it happened. We used to talk about nineteen
twenty three year old young women who this guy in
(14:12):
prison is, as you just said, is everything to them.
But folks, stay here, we're going to tell you just
how rare, rare this is for a governor to give
Clemensing will also tell you why, yes, folks, a life
was spared today on death row. But tonight there is
not a lot of hope that another execution in another
(14:36):
state is going to get stopped. All right, folks, let
me in DJ here continuing now with what was certainly
to a certain degree surprising, rare, but great news at
(14:57):
least for the family of Tremaine. Would death row in
mate convicted murder scheduled to die at eleven am Eastern
time today in Oklahoma, but minutes before he was to
be taken into the death chamber, his life was spared
by the governor the rogues. We talked to his mom
and his nieces, like you said a couple of days ago.
(15:17):
One of the things that struck me most one they
had only contact visits. As they say, right, they get
to visit him a little more often, but all of
those aren't contact. You can actually give up heads through glass.
And so the last time they got to see him
this week was through glass, they said. The last time
they had a contact visit I think was this summer,
(15:38):
early summer. They got to hug him, but they hadn't
had the death date yet, So they hugged him in June,
not realizing that might be the last hug, and that
jumped out at me. We were talking to them the
other day.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Statistically speaking, they look so when we spoke with Linda
Would she didn't seem hopeful. She did not seem hopeful.
She had, I think, prepared herself as much as you
can as a mother that her second son was now
going to die in prison, and you could see that
(16:16):
she didn't even want to show any hope. It was
almost like she didn't want to jinx it. I felt
that from her. You could see it in her face
as she spoke about her son and what was likely
to happen. She was speaking as a mother who was
preparing for her son to die. I did not see
a lot of hope. I didn't see a lot of
(16:37):
hope in the girls either, I really didn't. They were
all preparing themselves for worst case scenario. Because statistically speaking,
you look at the history of what governors have done
in these moments and in these cases, even when clemency
has been recommended, and that's rare in and of itself.
This today was nothing short of a miracle. Honestly, I
was thinking as I was looking, like I said, five
(17:00):
minutes we did, I was like ten minutes, nine minutes,
three minutes, and I was thinking, God, I hope, I
hope that his family got word before all of us did.
And it doesn't seem as though they did, I think,
because every single news article said the last minute, the
minute before all of like the clock was ticking and
(17:21):
everybody was looking at it, and we didn't know until
I don't think we saw or heard word until ten
fifty nine.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Oh. We were kept refreshing, we were following every local
Oklahoma news station, every local Oklahoma reporter.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
You had the governor's we signed on their Twitter. Everything
up to the.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Last second, there was absolutely nothing. And this came. We
talked about rot. How rare this is. There have been
forty one executionecutions in the country this year. That's the
most sens what twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, Yes, and we've
been talking about so and when there's another five I
think scheduled for the rest of this year, one of
them being tonight, another one tomorrow night. We'll speak on
that in the second. But of those forty one executions robes,
(18:00):
there were more scheduled. There were sixty two actual execution
dates this year in the country. Now, some of them
actually got rescheduled, some of them ended up a guy,
one guy actually died, and then some of them are
still to come. So that's why the number is different.
Sixty two, we've only had forty one executions.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
But you say only yeap, that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
View, that's a very good point. But five, only five
of the sixty two scheduled executions this year did a
court step in and stop them in Only five in
zero until today did a governor step in and stop it.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Wow. So this is just it's unheard of. It's exceptionally rare.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
It is very very rare, very very very rare. So
he had a good case, he had a good cause,
And I think this is just one of those where
there's a question. This isn't a matter of guilt or innocence.
This is right and wrong and fair and unfair and
just and unjust, and you have to be just to
all your citizens, including the ones that can make crimes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
The only other time that what we've been covering in
terms of execution is Robert Robertson, that is a question
of guilt or innocence. That was not the case with this.
He is not denying being a part of the robbery
and being in the room when the murder happened. And
in the state of Oklahoma, it's it's much like the
same rule that I'm very familiar with as having been
(19:30):
a crime reporter in South Carolina, which is the hand
of one is the hand of all. So if you're
there when a murder happens, if you're taking part in
a crime where the outcome is murder, you were just
as culpable as the person who pulled the trigger or
the person who wielded the knife.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And some people will tell you there's a lot of
sense in that law, and a lot of people tell
you there's some nonsense in some cases in that law.
But yes, to your point, so he's there just as guilty.
But why is it that the other guy there's got it?
Why aren't they getting the same damn sentence? Is that's
a question of justice.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It is a question of justice. Can you imagine? Though,
Like I had said this before the break, we got
word of what Tremaine Wood's last meal was, when we
didn't know if he was going to be executed or not,
and just hearing and I don't know why this is
fascinating to so many of us. We always have these conversations,
but to think about actually consuming what you think might
(20:23):
be your last meal, and we have what his was,
and to know like, wow, he's I wonder if he's
eaten again since and how different those two meals have been,
how different those two meals are. And I wonder what
it's like the reception. You know, he has been isolated
for quite some time now, as they often do when
folks are about to be executed. I wonder because his
(20:45):
family told us he was put into a cell right
next to where they execute the prisoners. You're on death watch.
You have access to nothing. They take everything from you
except for one book and a tablet where they allow
you to allege you contact your family, they said, for
whatever reason, he was only able to contact one niece.
But you are alone with your thoughts and your book period.
(21:09):
Now he's going to be what reintroduced back into prison
social life. I wow.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I mean he has a new lease on life alive.
He will never see free air the rest of his life.
He never will, barring some miracle. But this was a
part of the clemency, is that he can even request
he is not allowed to go before the parole board again.
He concedes that he will never get out of prison.
So this is it. He gets a life. This is
(21:41):
a young man by our.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Twenty six he's younger than you, forty six years old.
But now he can have those visits with his family,
even if it's through glass. He can have his daily
twenty minute conversation with his family, and there is value
to that for his family. They call him the glue
of their family, and I imagine now what he will
be able. I hope. I hope for him, I hope
(22:04):
for his family that this literal new lease on life.
He was just given years. He was just given an
opportunity that most people do not get, and it'll be
interesting to see what he does with it. We want
to follow up with the family. We actually are going
to without a doubt, hopefully have at some point there
(22:25):
I'm sure being inundated in a joyful way with lots
of media requests, but we'll get them back on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
They can sleep differently, and you didn't share. It's kind
of it seems morbid, but it's it's human curiosity always
because it always makes it always sparks a conversation right.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Among folks in front of him.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yeah, he got he had a three piece fried catfish
platter with oakrah and coleslaw, seven tartar sauce packets, seven
hot sauce packets, so he probably mixed those all up.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
A pint of chocolate ice cream and a two leader
of doctor Pepper. How many people can say they consumed
their last meal and lived to see another day, another week, another.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Year, another meal he's going to get to eat. I
would like to know now his first meal, really that
was his last. I would like to now know his
first Folks will follow this one. And again a head's up,
we might have more news on this front. As you
all know, we've been covering a lot of but there's
been extraordinary year when it comes to executions in this country.
(23:29):
And we're talking about this one today was scheduled for
this morning, but there is another one scheduled for tonight
in Florida for someone who's guilt is not necessarily being
questioned and people aren't rallying to oh, it's not questioned
at all. Bear his life. That one's tonight, and there's
another schedule for tomorrow Robes in South Carolina, and this
is going to be another firing squad.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
When is Aaron This is going to be the third
firing squad execution of the year for the state of
South Carolina. We'll explain why that's become a popular mode
of execution specifically in that state in that episode. But certainly,
this is a moment that is exceptionally rare and certainly
(24:09):
one that I know the Wood family is not taking lightly.
This is a day for celebration for them. And look,
it's not just a celebration for the Wood family, but
I believe the victim's family as well, because they also
had their wishes granted as well, and that's not often
the case that they were able to at least, and
I know that they know that what they told the
(24:32):
governor had to have had a huge impact on his decision,
and so they might sleep a little better tonight knowing
that another senseless death didn't occur from that night back
in two thousand and two.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
That's amazing. I did not think about that they were
actively advocating for saving his life. Now that is some
different level of humanity there. I didn't think, Wow, I'm
glad you did that. At the end, I did not
think about that is a beautiful thing, because you know
that is what they had to have done. What a
(25:06):
story from a tragedy. Hain't it rogues, folks. We always
appreciate you spending some time with us. We're following this one.
We'll talk to you all real soon. For now, on
TJ Holmes on behalf of my Dear Amy Robot. Talk
to you. Alsoon
Hey, there are folks. It is Thursday, November thirteenth, and
he's just a little while ago. Actually, a man was
sitting in a room next to a death chamber waiting
to be taken in and executed. He had been served
his last meal and he was minutes away from going
into that death chamber when he got word that his
(00:22):
life was being spared by the governor of Oklahoma. And
with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes.
We can't believe almost that this happened. These are so rare,
and this is a case for whatever reason, we got
very close to and interested in. Lo and behold today
(00:43):
a man's life was.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Spared, and within minutes it was as dramatic as it gets.
And yes, we spoke with Tremaine Wood's family just two
days ago. They could barely speak about his potential impending
death without sobbing. Under Standably, we were on the edge
of our seats waiting to see if the Governor of
(01:04):
Oklahoma was going to go ahead and grant the clemency
that a Pardon and Parole board had recommended the week before.
And tick talk, tick talk, we were all the way
up to ten at the East coast time, ten fifty seven,
ten fifty eight. He was scheduled to die by lethal
(01:26):
injection at eleven am Eastern time ten am local time,
and just before it hit eleven here we got word.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And we talked about this, Robes. I was saying to you,
I mean, these are so rare that it does happen
that the governor grant's clemency, And I said, you know
the ones we've heard about oftentimes, it's not like we
seen the movies, like they're somebody strapped to the chair
and the phone rings on the wall. That's not usually
how it goes down, but it can't. It went down
like that to a great degree today. Now Tremaine Wood
(01:57):
was sitting waiting to be executed. They had moved in
to this holding cell essentially right next door to the
death chamber, and that's where he had been. It was
one of your first questions, rogues, when it had gotten
so close to the hour, the execution hour, You like,
good God, was he strapped to that gurney? Was he
ready to be Was he in there? And then the
(02:19):
call came that's not the case. I can't imagine how
dramatic and what that would have felt like, but still
what he went through today, can you imagine what that
felt like?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
It had to be pretty close to that, short of
being strapped to the gurney. He was in what they
called death watch, and he'd been in death watch for
a couple of days. Can you imagine eating the meal
that you requested as your final meal, your last meal,
knowing this most likely, I mean, you would have to
prepare yourself mentally. And when we spoke to his mother
(02:50):
and his nieces, they said he told them, whether they
believed him or not, that he was ready to die.
If that's what was meant to be, all of the
mental olympics that must have been going on in his head.
And yes, I was imagining being his mother, I was
imagining being his nieces or anyone who loved him. And
what this time we were spending our morning working and
(03:14):
just I was trying to think about what they must
be going through so to have the outcome that they
were obviously hoping for, wishing for, praying for, but wanting
not to be waiting for. And yet that moment came
and you said it to me, The governor just granted clements.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I could. I don't know, it's a case maybe that
screams for this. I we'll share the governor's statement here
in a moment, but it seems to be a case
that screamed for mercy, taking a taking a moment, or
even being humane if you will, to someone who is
now not going to get out of jail for the
(03:54):
rest of his life, who was admitted he was a
part of this criming which somebody died. But again the
argument that he wasn't necessarily the killer, all that stuff.
The governor and I said it to you when I
read the statement, I said, he struck the right. He
sounds like he's got a good head on his shoulder.
I know he's a governor. I don't mean it that way.
What I'm saying is it sounded just level headed and
from the head and heart was combined. And when I
(04:18):
see a politician do that, I'll give them credit.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
It was amazing. And look, he was and is a
Republican governor. And that should be pointed out because by
and large, Republican governors tend to be pro death penalty,
and so to have a Republican governor step in and
grant clemency, it's rare enough for any governor to do so.
But certainly for our Republican governor to do so.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
What is this sixteen? There have been sixteen executions under
his watch, correct there in his term, but I always
missed the number on the parole board versus he doesn't
always go with what the para.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So Tremaine included over his tenure of seven years as governor,
the Pardons and Parole Board has recommended that five death
sentences be commuted to life in prison without the possibility
of parole. Before Tremaine, he had only agreed or granted
(05:12):
that clemency once. So Tremaine makes it twice. So two
out of the five times the Parole Board recommended clemency,
he has now granted it. Now, it's rare for a
Pardon's and Parole board to recommend clemency period. But obviously,
as we look at so many states when the death penalty,
since the death penalty has been reinstated, we have had
(05:35):
dozens of inmates on death row actually exonerated. So look,
I do appreciate, we appreciate when governors and leaders take
their very important position seriously in moments of life or death,
and it seems that this was the case with Governor
stt Governor Kevin Stitt, and we mentioned the extenuating circumstances
(05:56):
in this case. We have now this is our third
podcast on this in pen execution, and there were a
lot of reasons why the governor made the decision he made,
and certainly a lot of folks were absolutely fighting for
the life of Tremaine Wood.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Look and part of what the argument that the governor
may will share his full statement, but Tremaine Wood and
his brother were part of a botched robbery in which
a nineteen year old young man was killed. This was
on New Year's Day two thousand and two. His brother
was sentenced to life in prison without parole. Tremayne was
(06:35):
sentenced to death two separate trials. Now, the argument here
is twofold right for Tremain Wood. One of them is
everybody agrees he got inadequate counsel. His council put in
an embarrassing amount of hours logged, and there were substance
abuse involved. Everybody agrees he got a very very bad lawyer.
(06:59):
The other part of the story is that Tremaine would
his brother as well said it was not Tremaine but
the brother who actually stabbed the gentleman, ending up killing him. Now,
Tremaine's brother has since died in prison by suicide, so
he's not speaking about it anymore. But he spoke before
(07:20):
he died and said it was him and not his brother.
So the argument there, I mean, why is that fair
that two guys same crime, The guy who says he
killed the man gets life in prison, the guy who
didn't actually do the killing gets death. Folks didn't think
that made sense, Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
And the governor agreed, And the big hang up was,
actually it was the technicality in the juror instructions that
ended up having or swaying the parole board to vote
three to two to push for clemency versus the death penalty.
And you know, the governor said he was going to
take his time, as he does with all of these
(08:02):
death penalty cases. He spoke to the Attorney General, who
was adamant he wanted to see Tremaine Wood die by
lethal injection, and he stands by that. He says he
was disappointed in the governor's decision to grant clemency. He
spoke to the victim's family and this was a big deal,
and we know that publicly they have said that they
(08:24):
did not want Tremaine Wood to die by lethal injection.
They were against his execution, and so he spoke to
that family as well, and that had to have been
a powerful conversation. And then he spoke to Tremaine Wood's
attorneys as well, who reiterated all of those points. We
just made that he had clear and adequate, inept representation,
(08:46):
and there were absolutely questions about how his case was
handled in terms of what the jury heard, what they
should consider when it came to issuing the death penalty
or not.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Do you have the governor's statement in front of you.
I do, Governess did again. I've give him credit. This
came out and all those things, but it sounds like
he considered all of the things you would hope a
governor will consider.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, So this is what the governor said just moments
past eleven a m. Eastern time. Here, after a thorough
review of the facts and prayerful consideration, I have chosen
to accept the Pardon and Parole Board's recommendation to commute
Tremaine Wood sentence to life without parole. This action reflects
the same punishment his brother received for their murder of
(09:30):
an innocent young man and ensures a severe punishment that
keeps a violent offender off the streets forever. In Oklahoma,
we continue to hold accountable those who commit violent crimes,
delivering justice, safeguarding our communities, and respecting the rule of law.
I pray for the family of Ronnie Wiffe and for
the surviving victim, Arnie. They are models of Christian forgiveness
(09:54):
and love. I love how he ended that, because that
basically reflected the victim's families willingness to say we don't
want Tremaine Wood to die.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Every governor listening, if the family of the victim says, Governor,
please don't kill this person, you gotta listen. I know
a lot of governors you hear all the time. The
people will have to do what the people want, and
the people are the ones who say this person should die.
Just that is the one voice. And it sounded like
he listened to him and I I don't know, And
(10:25):
there was a Most people will in a moment like
this say how could you defend the murderer? How could
you think about the victim's family? And they're not getting
justice or closure. They're the ones who didn't want it
to happen. They didn't so this should be and it's
a weird thing to celebrate. And we talked about this
(10:46):
robes because we were and we were emotional in getting
the news. It seemed like someone would take it as
how can you celebrate that this monster, this killer, this
murderer is getting to live. That's not it if you
just think of it, that a human beings life was
spared today for whatever reason, that's got to be worth something.
(11:10):
And I think we felt that more than we expected
to feel that today.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
And no one is saying that Tremaine Wood should be freed,
that he should be let go, that he deserves freedom.
It's not that at all. He is going to be
behind bars for the remainder of his life. But the
question is whether or not his life can have value,
whether or not his life can have meaning. And if
(11:33):
you listen to our podcast couple back, where we spoke
to his mother, we spoke to his young nieces, we
would urge you to do so and decide for yourself
after hearing from them.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, value, Yeah, there's value there. There's a lot going
on and the family and challenges and he has been
some steady presence in their lives. And you know what,
you and I was wowed by it that the grandma
was saying she was taking the kids to see him
(12:07):
in prison when they were a month old, when they
were babies, because she thought it was important for them
and for him. She has fostered this relationship, this family dynamic.
I thought that was a heroic of her.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I do too, And one of the many things that
got me, that really got me. Look, we all in
this country want to break the cycle of violence, do
we not? And when his mother said he told her
one of the last times she saw him, and she
didn't know if it was going to be the last
time she saw him or was able to talk to him,
he said, mom, I broke the cycle of violence. He
(12:44):
has two sons who are now grown, he's got nieces,
he's got nephews, there are great grandchildren now, and there
are no troubles with the law. And he said, I
am the cautionary tale. And through his example of saying,
don't be me, stay in school, be kind, don't resort
to violence, that message, at least to his inner circle, resonated.
(13:08):
He was the example of what not to do. And
he proudly wore that and encouraged And I mean, if
you listen to his nieces. They worship him. And it's
weird to think that young kids who seemingly have bright
futures are looking up to their uncle or their relative
(13:29):
who is a convicted murderer and who was on death row.
That doesn't seem like a likely hero or a mentor.
And yet if you listen to these young folks, he
has been and that is pretty awesome by him being
in prison. And he was kind of like, look where
I am in my situation. It broke the cycle of
violence in our family, and for that I'm grateful.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
It was the last thing he said to the parole
board when he made his presentation. He asked them to
see him as someone whose life has value. It was
the last thing he said to them. And then we
got a chance to talk to the nieces. I'm floored
at how it happened. We used to talk about nineteen
twenty three year old young women who this guy in
(14:12):
prison is, as you just said, is everything to them.
But folks, stay here, we're going to tell you just
how rare, rare this is for a governor to give
Clemensing will also tell you why, yes, folks, a life
was spared today on death row. But tonight there is
not a lot of hope that another execution in another
(14:36):
state is going to get stopped. All right, folks, let
me in DJ here continuing now with what was certainly
to a certain degree surprising, rare, but great news at
(14:57):
least for the family of Tremaine. Would death row in
mate convicted murder scheduled to die at eleven am Eastern
time today in Oklahoma, but minutes before he was to
be taken into the death chamber, his life was spared
by the governor the rogues. We talked to his mom
and his nieces, like you said a couple of days ago.
(15:17):
One of the things that struck me most one they
had only contact visits. As they say, right, they get
to visit him a little more often, but all of
those aren't contact. You can actually give up heads through glass.
And so the last time they got to see him
this week was through glass, they said. The last time
they had a contact visit I think was this summer,
(15:38):
early summer. They got to hug him, but they hadn't
had the death date yet, So they hugged him in June,
not realizing that might be the last hug, and that
jumped out at me. We were talking to them the
other day.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Statistically speaking, they look so when we spoke with Linda
Would she didn't seem hopeful. She did not seem hopeful.
She had, I think, prepared herself as much as you
can as a mother that her second son was now
going to die in prison, and you could see that
(16:16):
she didn't even want to show any hope. It was
almost like she didn't want to jinx it. I felt
that from her. You could see it in her face
as she spoke about her son and what was likely
to happen. She was speaking as a mother who was
preparing for her son to die. I did not see
a lot of hope. I didn't see a lot of
(16:37):
hope in the girls either, I really didn't. They were
all preparing themselves for worst case scenario. Because statistically speaking,
you look at the history of what governors have done
in these moments and in these cases, even when clemency
has been recommended, and that's rare in and of itself.
This today was nothing short of a miracle. Honestly, I
was thinking as I was looking, like I said, five
(17:00):
minutes we did, I was like ten minutes, nine minutes,
three minutes, and I was thinking, God, I hope, I
hope that his family got word before all of us did.
And it doesn't seem as though they did, I think,
because every single news article said the last minute, the
minute before all of like the clock was ticking and
(17:21):
everybody was looking at it, and we didn't know until
I don't think we saw or heard word until ten
fifty nine.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Oh. We were kept refreshing, we were following every local
Oklahoma news station, every local Oklahoma reporter.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
You had the governor's we signed on their Twitter. Everything
up to the.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Last second, there was absolutely nothing. And this came. We
talked about rot. How rare this is. There have been
forty one executionecutions in the country this year. That's the
most sens what twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, Yes, and we've
been talking about so and when there's another five I
think scheduled for the rest of this year, one of
them being tonight, another one tomorrow night. We'll speak on
that in the second. But of those forty one executions robes,
(18:00):
there were more scheduled. There were sixty two actual execution
dates this year in the country. Now, some of them
actually got rescheduled, some of them ended up a guy,
one guy actually died, and then some of them are
still to come. So that's why the number is different.
Sixty two, we've only had forty one executions.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
But you say only yeap, that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
View, that's a very good point. But five, only five
of the sixty two scheduled executions this year did a
court step in and stop them in Only five in
zero until today did a governor step in and stop it.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Wow. So this is just it's unheard of. It's exceptionally rare.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
It is very very rare, very very very rare. So
he had a good case, he had a good cause,
And I think this is just one of those where
there's a question. This isn't a matter of guilt or innocence.
This is right and wrong and fair and unfair and
just and unjust, and you have to be just to
all your citizens, including the ones that can make crimes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
The only other time that what we've been covering in
terms of execution is Robert Robertson, that is a question
of guilt or innocence. That was not the case with this.
He is not denying being a part of the robbery
and being in the room when the murder happened. And
in the state of Oklahoma, it's it's much like the
same rule that I'm very familiar with as having been
(19:30):
a crime reporter in South Carolina, which is the hand
of one is the hand of all. So if you're
there when a murder happens, if you're taking part in
a crime where the outcome is murder, you were just
as culpable as the person who pulled the trigger or
the person who wielded the knife.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And some people will tell you there's a lot of
sense in that law, and a lot of people tell
you there's some nonsense in some cases in that law.
But yes, to your point, so he's there just as guilty.
But why is it that the other guy there's got it?
Why aren't they getting the same damn sentence? Is that's
a question of justice.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It is a question of justice. Can you imagine? Though,
Like I had said this before the break, we got
word of what Tremaine Wood's last meal was, when we
didn't know if he was going to be executed or not,
and just hearing and I don't know why this is
fascinating to so many of us. We always have these conversations,
but to think about actually consuming what you think might
(20:23):
be your last meal, and we have what his was,
and to know like, wow, he's I wonder if he's
eaten again since and how different those two meals have been,
how different those two meals are. And I wonder what
it's like the reception. You know, he has been isolated
for quite some time now, as they often do when
folks are about to be executed. I wonder because his
(20:45):
family told us he was put into a cell right
next to where they execute the prisoners. You're on death watch.
You have access to nothing. They take everything from you
except for one book and a tablet where they allow
you to allege you contact your family, they said, for
whatever reason, he was only able to contact one niece.
But you are alone with your thoughts and your book period.
(21:09):
Now he's going to be what reintroduced back into prison
social life. I wow.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I mean he has a new lease on life alive.
He will never see free air the rest of his life.
He never will, barring some miracle. But this was a
part of the clemency, is that he can even request
he is not allowed to go before the parole board again.
He concedes that he will never get out of prison.
So this is it. He gets a life. This is
(21:41):
a young man by our.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Twenty six he's younger than you, forty six years old.
But now he can have those visits with his family,
even if it's through glass. He can have his daily
twenty minute conversation with his family, and there is value
to that for his family. They call him the glue
of their family, and I imagine now what he will
be able. I hope. I hope for him, I hope
(22:04):
for his family that this literal new lease on life.
He was just given years. He was just given an
opportunity that most people do not get, and it'll be
interesting to see what he does with it. We want
to follow up with the family. We actually are going
to without a doubt, hopefully have at some point there
(22:25):
I'm sure being inundated in a joyful way with lots
of media requests, but we'll get them back on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
They can sleep differently, and you didn't share. It's kind
of it seems morbid, but it's it's human curiosity always
because it always makes it always sparks a conversation right.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Among folks in front of him.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yeah, he got he had a three piece fried catfish
platter with oakrah and coleslaw, seven tartar sauce packets, seven
hot sauce packets, so he probably mixed those all up.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
A pint of chocolate ice cream and a two leader
of doctor Pepper. How many people can say they consumed
their last meal and lived to see another day, another week, another.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Year, another meal he's going to get to eat. I
would like to know now his first meal, really that
was his last. I would like to now know his
first Folks will follow this one. And again a head's up,
we might have more news on this front. As you
all know, we've been covering a lot of but there's
been extraordinary year when it comes to executions in this country.
(23:29):
And we're talking about this one today was scheduled for
this morning, but there is another one scheduled for tonight
in Florida for someone who's guilt is not necessarily being
questioned and people aren't rallying to oh, it's not questioned
at all. Bear his life. That one's tonight, and there's
another schedule for tomorrow Robes in South Carolina, and this
is going to be another firing squad.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
When is Aaron This is going to be the third
firing squad execution of the year for the state of
South Carolina. We'll explain why that's become a popular mode
of execution specifically in that state in that episode. But certainly,
this is a moment that is exceptionally rare and certainly
(24:09):
one that I know the Wood family is not taking lightly.
This is a day for celebration for them. And look,
it's not just a celebration for the Wood family, but
I believe the victim's family as well, because they also
had their wishes granted as well, and that's not often
the case that they were able to at least, and
I know that they know that what they told the
(24:32):
governor had to have had a huge impact on his decision,
and so they might sleep a little better tonight knowing
that another senseless death didn't occur from that night back
in two thousand and two.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
That's amazing. I did not think about that they were
actively advocating for saving his life. Now that is some
different level of humanity there. I didn't think, Wow, I'm
glad you did that. At the end, I did not
think about that is a beautiful thing, because you know
that is what they had to have done. What a
(25:06):
story from a tragedy. Hain't it rogues, folks. We always
appreciate you spending some time with us. We're following this one.
We'll talk to you all real soon. For now, on
TJ Holmes on behalf of my Dear Amy Robot. Talk
to you. Alsoon
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Medal of Honor: Stories of Courage
Rewarded for bravery that goes above and beyond the call of duty, the Medal of Honor is the United States’ top military decoration. The stories we tell are about the heroes who have distinguished themselves by acts of heroism and courage that have saved lives. From Judith Resnik, the second woman in space, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice, these are stories about those who have done the improbable and unexpected, who have sacrificed something in the name of something much bigger than themselves. Every Wednesday on Medal of Honor, uncover what their experiences tell us about the nature of sacrifice, why people put their lives in danger for others, and what happens after you’ve become a hero. Special thanks to series creator Dan McGinn, to the Congressional Medal of Honor Society and Adam Plumpton. Medal of Honor begins on May 28. Subscribe to Pushkin+ to hear ad-free episodes one week early. Find Pushkin+ on the Medal of Honor show page in Apple or at Pushkin.fm. Subscribe on Apple: apple.co/pushkin Subscribe on Pushkin: pushkin.fm/plus
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com