Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am all in again.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Oh, let's just you.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
I am all in again with Scott Patterson and iHeartRadio Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I Am all in Podcast one
eleven productions. iHeartRadio Media. iHeart Podcasts. Oh, we are going
to break down today? Season two, Episode seven, Like Motherlike Daughter,
Air date November thirteenth, two thousand and one with the
one and only Madeline Zeema and she's an actress known
(00:43):
for her roles in Californication, twin Peaks, You and Subservience.
Beginning her career I Just Wait for It two years
old with an appearance to TV commercial for Downy Fabric software.
Madeline's first appearance a Gilmore Girls is in the last
scene of this episode as Lisa. We see her when
(01:05):
Lisa sits down with Rory at the lunch tap. Oh
that was you, okay good? Yeah? The Bookish Headphone Club
the founding members all Right. Rory tries to shed her
loner image by joining a popular click after after her
(01:25):
meeting with Headmaster Charleston, saying that if you want to
get into Harvard, there has got to be a social
component to your life and your resume, because Harvard wants
leaders while Loralai ends up modeling matching outfits with Emily
(01:46):
at a Chilten fashion show hosted at the end directed
by Dennis Erdman writer Joni binder Weiss. Let's talk about Madeline.
Let's talk about Rory's social behavior. She's approached by a
guidance count about her unapproachable behavior, to which she's told
universities do not look kindly on loaners. This leads herd
(02:07):
to seek out a group of social girls, the Puffs,
which catches Paris's eye as she walks by. Roy eventually
gets an invite to join the Puffs, speaks very highly
about Paris, knowing how badly she wants in, and her
whole family is also tied to the Pups. Madeline, thanks
(02:29):
for coming on. Did you go to a regular high school?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh, Scott, No, I didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I hardly went to school at all, to be honest,
I think Junior High was the last I was in
a normal school, and it was daring while I was
on the nanny so I was. I was quite bullied
in school, which was yeah, my parents should have put
me in a private school. But I was in public
school and it was probably the wrong move nowadays, I
(03:01):
feel like if you were in uh like a regular
school and you were on television, it would it would
benefit you. But in the in the nineties and the
two thousands, back in the day, it was not cool,
so or at least not for me. But no, I
didn't go to regular Did you go to a regular
high school?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I went to I went to a Yeah, I went
to public school.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
I always I was always envious of the high school experience,
you know, but I only I only experienced it through
little glimpses of watching things on television, which is not accurate.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Right, Well, so did you think Gilmore Girls capture what
it was like to attend private school?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
I I'm not sure. I feel like I love that
in this episode that there is that that pressure to conform,
and that Rory is a nonconformist, and so it's low
like they both their their relationship mirroring each other in
that way where they're like living their own lives. I
(04:02):
feel like it was so ahead of its time in
terms of the way that shows were and roles were
written for women. You know, they were living by their
own set of rules and and they won in the
face of that kind of like societal pressure to conform
and conform and they didn't and it was it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
To revisit in your experience in schools, did you ever
encounter like a Puffs like group or a cool group
of girls at the school?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Well, when I when I went to junior junior high
was the last time I was in a normal school,
and then I was homeschool and after that, so I
never I never had like real any but but I
did encounter like the cool kids.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And I was the kid that.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Did origami, and my origami actually got me in trouble
I because there was this one girl who was kind
of mean to me. So I made a dog that
was an origami dog and I named it with the
name of the girl who was bullying me at the time.
And I showed it to one boy who I thought
was my friend, and he showed it to her. And
(05:17):
who knew oragami could get you in trouble. I mean,
what that's like wild, right, But yeah it yeah, So
I did encounter like cool or like at least very
mean clique kids that did not like me for sure.
So I was well cast as the like other bookish
bookworm who just wants to like chill with your headphones
(05:40):
and like read at lunch.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Es gave it to another you know, narrative.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Do you believe the storyline if a girl like Rory
went to school, you actually think teachers would would ask
her to socialize more.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
You know, What's it's hard to believe that you know,
a character like Rory. You know, there's something online that
I looked up and I didn't I didn't realize it,
but it's called, uh Rory, It's called Rory Gilmour syndrome
of like having all this privilege and being so beautiful
and perfect.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So it's hard to imagine that like.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
That, like that character had any kind of difficulty. So
it feels a little bit of like a but it is.
It is, I think believable that, especially back in the day,
that they would be like, hey, this person's a loner.
I mean, I don't know, I don't know what it's
like in a in a private school. Maybe they take
a special interest, especially with like a straight a student.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, but I mean in Rory's case, you know, she's
she doesn't come from she actually does come from money,
but not her mom, right, and she's walking into a
situation where she's you know, she's confronted by extremely wealthy, entitled,
privileged people. Yeah, so I kind of understand why she
(07:06):
folded and just sort of you know, blocked out and
zoned out and just wanted to get straight a's and
get the heck out of there and get back home
where her life was normal.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
But I mean, why would we watch if she wasn't struggling? Right,
So it's it's.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
And I also love that the all of the obstacles
do feel like really lived in in the.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Show, you know, even even your your guys's relationship.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Where she's she's thinking you're flirting with a with a
woman and and you're like, no, I was giving her
directions and and just I don't know, it felt as
you know, like you're you're reliving the show and you're
like the writing is so fantastic, so you you always
just kind of go that feels like a very relatable
(07:58):
miscommunication of like disconnect between two people where you see
something out of context done in it all, the all
of the obstacles really feel real to me. So and
it does seem I don't know, just like it's it.
I buy it, I mean, you know, but yeah, I definitely.
(08:19):
I definitely feel like watching from the outside, you're like, oh,
this is such a perfect experience, and then you know,
I definitely had a lot of compassion for Alexis like
coming onto the show because just you know, her amount
the amount of like work and pressure and uh.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
That was upon her.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
I was like, wow, that's you know, I had just
a lot of compassion for her because it was like
a lot.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yeah, eighteen years old and nine months you're locked down
on a set. Yeah, I don't think she was expecting that.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Probably not. It's hard.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
It's hard for anybody who hasn't experienced what a network.
It's very much like a real it's a job. It's
a nine to five job, and sometimes it's eighteen hours
of a job.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
You know, right exactly, like six to six to four
am job. Yeah, six six am to four am. Yeah,
it's just wild.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Sometimes I worked with Milo on Heroes.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I was like a recurrent on that for the last season,
and that was another crazy job where they would do.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Like eighteen hours on that kind of show.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
It was because of the amount of effects and everything,
and then you have a high turnover rate of like
you know, having to do one every week. Like they
were complex, very very ambitious episodes.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, it's after nine months of that, you're ready for
a long sleep.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, yeah, you know, you know, yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
People don't know. You have to experience it to really
know how it feels.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, when you when you rewatch the episodes, is there
anything that you wish you could go back and change
when you like watch? Because for me watching it, I
was like I was such a baby. I think that
this was the first time I maybe was on a
set without my parents, like I really like, I think
I was maybe fifteen sixteen or I had like a
(10:18):
somebody drive me, and I felt like I was there.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I don't know if I was there by myself, but
I felt like I was.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
And because again it's a long time ago, but I
was like, oh man, this is just such a It
was a sea.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Change for me, like just a turning point moment.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
And I wish I had been more confident, you know,
because I was just like a little baby. But I
wish I'd been more confident and more like, you know,
like owned myself a little more. But how can you
when you're so young, you.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Know, well to answer your question the only times and
I don't really watch myself. I don't watch what I do.
I can't bear it. It's hard, right, it's very, very difficult.
And when I'm forced to, I look away and I
you know, I think I scroll on my phone. I
(11:12):
you know, I just don't want to pay attention to it.
But on this there's so much to you know, there's
twenty five years distance. Yeah, so it's like another watching
another person, right, And you know, if I ever see
things that I've done that I want to change, it's
because of the writing on this show. It's really not Yeah,
(11:35):
I mean, there are a couple of things I would change, Yeah, admittedly,
and I've stated this, but for the most part, you know,
the writing was so superb that you just didn't want to.
The thing that I take away from this now is
that I just feel very lucky to have been cast
in this because the writing's so good. And you know
(11:56):
how that is when you're going to work and you
get to be in that situation and say these things
in this situation, it's really that's the power of it,
because sometimes you go to work and you don't want
to be in the situations that they're putting you in,
and you don't have any power to really change it.
You try, and then you get labeled like malcontent or
(12:17):
something else, like watch out for this one. They have
a working brain. So but yeah, I mean it was
it was really I felt that way on a couple
on another show too, where I get to go to
work and I get to say this stuff and be
in these situations. It's really cool. It's like they just
sort of set you up for success. Yeah, and all
(12:39):
I have to do is like not screw it up,
you know. Yeah, That's how I felt about it, all right.
So why do you think Paris is so threatened by Rory?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Well, I mean she says it in the episode she goes,
you wake up and look like this, even though she
did get up and like put on lip gloss or whatever,
Like you know, Alexis as the as the actress is
just such a stunningly beautiful young lady that it's you know,
it's easy to compare yourself and feel like you come
(13:10):
up short kind of thing. So I think I think
it's there's that, which is just sort of an obvious one.
But then also Rory can stand up for herself in
the way that Paris doesn't. So Paris Paris you know,
acquiesces and tries to like bend herself to the pups
to try to make these girls like her. I think
(13:32):
we've all done that, right, We've sold ourselves out a
little bit to try to make somebody like us, and
then it still doesn't work, and we're.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Like, man, you know that, it's such a it's such
a it's a good lesson, right.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
And then and then Rory sitting in her power, not
really caring about these girls, and and realizing.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
For what it is. It's like, this is just a click.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
It's not that important, it doesn't ultimately matter, Like she
has her priorities straight. She's like, I do have friends,
I do have a life like you guys don't know
about it, but I don't need.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
To prove that to you.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Like that's such a I mean, like we all with
I wish I was that self possessed at like you know,
seventeen sixteen or whatever, to be able to be like
this doesn't matter and take it easy. You're you're okay
without this. I think that's one of the reasons she's
so threatened, is that, like Rory has a sense of herself,
(14:25):
and Paris is trying to find herself, you know, And
I think that's kind of you know, where we all
are at in a certain chapter of our lives, where
we're and I feel like you go through phases of that,
you know, right where there's like the part of you
that's the insecure, little kid part of you, and then
you kind of feel like you get over it somehow,
(14:48):
and then it comes back and you're like, how am I,
you know, thirty seven years old, thirty eight years old,
and I still feel like I'm awkward again?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
How did I get awkward again? I thought it was full.
So it's like a constant I feel like losing and
finding yourself.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It is rather amazing that somebody sixteen years old can
stand up for herself that way with such extreme intelligence
and you know, emotional intelligence and extreme cool. She never
really loses her cool at all. It is remarkable. It's
very unique.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Yes, And she also she advocates for this person that's
not even really her friend, right, she advocates for Paris
in a way that makes the girls like change their
mind about her, and she uses a little bit of
dark manipulation. You're like, WHOA.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
She's like, well, she might be going to another clique
like how does she pull that one out? And You're like, wow,
that's the power for me.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
It's like whoa she understands scarcity and sales.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Oh my gosh, yeah, it's pretty like you're saying, really remarkable.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
It is for somebody that you all right, So laurl
I interacting with Chiltern, she gets a little peeved at this, uh,
at this new reality that that her daughter's facing. So
she pays a visit to Headminster, Charleston to defend Rory's
loaner habits, and he reveals that Laurelized active participation is
(16:18):
also low. So the tables turn on laurel I to
what she says, like mother, like daughter. Emily soon discovers
Laurelized lack of involvement at children and again is humiliated.
Uh loural Ie shares she will join the boosters club.
Uh is Emily right?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I don't I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Like again, this is one of those things of like
the societal pressure of being a kind of mom that
goes to all the PTA meetings as opposed to a
mom that really understands their kid, which you know what
I mean is like where is the where is the
emphasis placed? But but to a certain degree, maybe because
(16:59):
she did her daughter did go into the school, so
it's like you kind of have to play that game,
I guess, and then she does, and you know you
can't really I can't really can't change their stripes too much,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
It's like if you don't.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Really want to be the PTA mom, which is pretty
a pretty restrictive role, and especially for that character to
try to step into. I think she was just again
trying to live by her own standards, and then I
was like, Okay, I'll do this for my daughter, but
it's not not natural.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Well do you think Laurla did the right thing going
to the headmaster's office? Is she being too overprotective?
Speaker 3 (17:43):
No? I think she was trying to stand up for
her kid in the face of like what feels like
it's not appropriate. And also again she's she's defending what
her life really is, which is outside of this little,
the very restrictive box of the private school and their expectations.
(18:05):
I think she did absolutely was right, and what any
mom that really understands their kid and what their kid's
life is really like, that's that involved, right, It would
be rare in real life for a mother to know
that much about her teenage daughter, probably, but in this
perfect world where the mothers and daughters have open communication,
(18:28):
she's like, no, this is this is ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Right, all right, let's go to the fashion show. So
she's a new member of the Booster Club, Laura Elias,
and she's well liked.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Which also feels like the Booster Club. When she did
the line, it's like she made it up and it's like, oh,
that was a real thing. I don't know if you
caught that in the show where it's like, oh, yeah,
the Booster Club, right, she was making Yeah, she thought
it was a joke, and it's like, okay, the Booster
Club does do a lot of good work.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Thought cute, Like that's the real thing.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So Laurel I offers to host the chilt and fashion
show at the end, but soon discovers she'll have to
participate in the fashion show herself. So luckily, uh, Laurel
I shamelessly volunteers Emily to be in the fashion show,
but shortly finds out that they will be matching as
a mother and daughter team. What do you think of
(19:34):
this scene? Did did you? Did you enjoy seeing these
two together? And you know, kind of enjoying each other's
company for the first time, like ever.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, of course, it's always nice when when two people
who are sort of opponents in a way like become
peas in a pod again, you know. And that's one
of my favorite moments actually, when you like when you
look over and you're like kind of rooting her on
and she's walking down the runway. That's like such a
cute moment, and I just think, I think it's it's
(20:07):
one of these things where it's like, oh, you know,
you always try to make peace with becoming your parents,
or you're like you don't want to, you rail against it,
and then there's parts of yourself as you get older
that you look at and you're like, hmmm, I'm a
little like them in certain ways, or at least I
can make peace with the parts of myself that I
refuse to look at that are like them, you know,
(20:30):
my stubbornness that mirrors my mother, my whatever I can go,
you know what, there's parts of that that I actually
really can celebrate, and that's so beautiful. So yeah, I
think this is one of actually my favorite moments in
this episode.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
You know, And.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Brenda Strong was so funny in this episode, and she
had that line to Laurel I complimenting her on a
great job in a great fashion show. And you really
went the extra mile. I mean even hired an actor
to play a snooty French French guy.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
It's so funny, it's ridiculous, it's so funny.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, Grenda is strong, like just like what an all
star fantastic cast, you know, right right. And I got
to meet her. She is just like Grace personified in
real life.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
She was fantastic.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
She was just amazing.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I wonder, I wonder, like what her like most famous
role is, you know, because I know definitely that that
episode of Seinfeld where she's like the braw lady. You know,
that's like, to me, one of the things that sticks
in my mind. I know she also voiced I think
she did the voiceover for Desperate House Like she's she's
just like the iconic television actress. And then also I
(21:55):
think she's also directed like she just I don't know,
just one of those people that I when I was younger,
that I looked up to. And then I got to
meet her, and she lived up to every expectations. You know,
when you meet someone in the industry, You're like, gosh,
I just think they're they really had a cool career
and also like and then they are also like cool people.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
That's to me, Eve, right, that's that's and she is
all of that. Yes she was. She was remarkable to
work with and I didn't get I just had that
one little quick thing with her, but I got to
spend some time with her on set. She's she's iconic.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
She's iconic and just so tall and stunning Amazon.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
All right, let's get to the kidnapping. Okay, So the
Puffs kidnapped Rory in the middle of the night, just
as Laura Lai had warned her they might. Paris clearly
caught off garden Is looking like a total mess. That
was pretty funny.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, I liked I liked the pimple cream.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
I liked that addition, even though she had no pimples
on her face, but I love that in television.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And so she gets whisked away, spirited away, and after
sneaking into Chiltern, the girls are all caught by Headmaster
Chiltern and security. And they were going into Headmaster Chilton's
office to ring a bell to initiate Rory and you,
by the way, right, yes, you were being initiated.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
One of the kidnapped kids, that's right.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
And so the Headmaster Charlton springs and Rory defends her
actions by explaining she was encouraged by him to socialize
and find a group of friends. She did, and it's
something she actually never wanted. So it was a great speech.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, it was a great speech, sech.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
And after remembering that he was culpable here, Headmaster Charleston
apologizes and that he mentions he might have been too
hasty to judge. Why do you think Rory agreed to
do this to be kidnapped? Because you know, Laura gave
her the heads up. You think it's kind of seems
a little outside of Rory's comfort zone. But why do
(24:02):
you think she agreed to this?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Again?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I think she really cares about her future, right, Like
she's such an intellect and then going to Harvard is
like her dream, and she just is trying to play
the game so that she can, like you were saying,
keep her head down and kind of like you know,
go through the motions, you know, And and she has
a sense of herself above it, so she's like that's
(24:28):
above the situation, so she doesn't. I think she plays
along knowing she's not going to get like sucked into
any of this stuff. And I mean, how fantastic to
have that as like a.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
A role model.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
But I think it's really funny when they're doing the
little like ceremony, they're like secret Society ceremony, and she's like,
you know, like you know, she's just like she's just
going through, like I'm going to ring the bell, but
I really don't want to well you know, and it's
just like it was just yeah, I remember, I remember
(25:03):
that scene was I think it took us a while
to film that scene. It was like, you know one
of those where you do a few takes and you're
like okay, and I was just like, oh man, Yeah.
It was one of the few times that show was
like one of the few times where it's like I'm
like maybe not as like I'm happy I don't have
that much dialogue.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I had like two lines in the whole episode.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
So anyway, but yeah, it was just it was a
really fun and all the other girls that were there
were really lovely and fun and everybody was really warm.
So that was really nice, really really nice, you know.
To work with other girls, and you're like, you're just
happy to be there.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Did that ever happen to you? Were you ever kidnapped
for any kind of initiation school or anything. No.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
I always I always wanted some out of the box
thing to happen to me. But my whole life has
been sort of strange and out of the box. So
I think that, you know, those extra things haven't luckily
have not happened, like a fake kidnapping. That's also a
great plot device in Jawbreaker, which is one of my
favorite movies from this like era as well, like the
(26:14):
early two thousands, late nineties.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Like that was you know, this is like.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
So many people's like comfort show because it was such
a part of their like adolescence and they're they're growing
up with Rory, you know. So it was like a
really big part of so many people's lives, and it's
one of those things that not to minimize, but like
I sometimes forget I was on the show because it
was like maybe two days of my life.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
But I but.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I was so excited because I had actually, like if
memory serves, auditioned to play Rory, like you know, and
so I was like excited to be a part of
the show was like a big deal, I think the
second season or something, and so I was just like
happy to be like involved at all, like get invited
to the party.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
You read for Rory?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yes, yeah, yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Oh tell us about that? Tell us about that?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Well.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
I mean, like, look, I was fourteen. I think when
they auditioned, I was very young, and so I don't
know if I was really seriously considered. I think I
did get close. I know that Amy Sherman Palladino did
remember me, and Gavin Polone remembered me from the audition.
I think that's part of the reason that I kind
(27:32):
of got cast in this role. I was like lucky
enough to be remembered. I must not have blown it
too bad, which I did for many many auditions of
my life that I've that I've blocked out so long ago.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
But yeah, I did. I did read for Rory. And but.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
I feel like, you know, obviously Alexis did a fantast
We actually had the same birthday me and Alexis.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Oh is that right?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Yeah, I think she's September sixteenth, So uh yeah, So
I think she did a fantastic job, and she was
just a couple of years older than me, and I
know that they searched for a long time for the.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Role, so yeah, they did. They saw a lot of
people for these roles. Yeah, and credit to Amy and
the team to really fight for who they thought was
perfect for the role and not just go for names.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Can I ask you well, because back in the day,
there was more like people actually auditioned and if you
were good.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
You got the job. That was like, that's now that's
not the case.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Now.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
If you're high on a list or whatever, that's you
get the job.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
But you don't necessarily have to know how to say
the words like everybody else had to do.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Right, What was the audition process for you?
Speaker 3 (28:50):
And I forgive me if you've if you've stated it already,
but I'm always curious because I wonder what the testing
process was like for you or Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
So you're you're gonna hate me for this. But the
Loop role was in the pilot only a guest star,
So all I had to do was I went in
one day. I met Amy and Gavin and Leslie Lincot
Gladder who was directing the pilot, and the casting people,
(29:21):
and I read one scene and then I said, see ya,
because I was going to another three auditions that day
that this was the second. You were so loose, Probably
I was, and I didn't care. Yeah, I just I
was prepared, but I did not care because because I was,
(29:41):
I was. I had about a two year streak where
I was just nailing everything and not getting the offer.
And it was always like, you know, he did great,
but we're gonna go with so and so. Always every
everything right, and so I just didn't care anymore. So
(30:01):
I had like this what I call the dumb courage
of the truly burnt out. You know, I was just
like I didn't care what anybody thought of my reads anymore,
and so I just did what I wanted to do instinctively,
and you know, I've prepared the night before and all that.
But anyway, so after the first scene, I said, see
you gotta go, you know, bye bye, And they said, no,
(30:22):
you have another scene. I said, no, I don't. I said,
we'll look on your side. And he says, well, it
says Duke. Who's Duke. No, that's Luke. It's a misprint.
So how am I supposed to do and prepare the scene?
So I said, go prepare the scene? So I prepared
the scene, five minutes later, did the scene, left, had
the job. By the time I got home, it was
on my answering machine, remember answering machines.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Amazing, that's amazing. And then you got it.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
And then they were like, actually, we want to bump
you up to series regular.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
No, no, so I go up. I do the pilot
in Toronto. We did it in Toronto and film the
series of Warner Brothers obviously, and so we did the
pot So that was like the heat check, right, That
was the chemistry check.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Was the job?
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Was the chemistry check. I was still auditioning for the job,
but it was a paid chemistry I was getting paid
to have a chemistry check with Lauren. So it did
the job. Came home, manager call little Waller said they
want to book you for two episodes and I'm gonna
say no. I said, what do you What do you
mean you're gonna say no? She goes, because I want
(31:26):
you to be on the show. And I'm like, okay,
well try that. And then they called back and said
we won him for four episodes, and she said no.
So she called Gavin Palone, who she knew, and said,
grow a pair, go into Warner Brothers and get him
a deal. You know you want him, you know the
(31:46):
chemistry's good. Let's go. So we did. And that's how
I got it. I didn't have to test, I didn't
have to go through anything. The test was the job
in Toronto, working with Lauren.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
That is fantastic. I don't hate you for that. I
think that's fair.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Okay, it's a great way to do it well.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Also, again, it's such a different like it's it reminds
me of this time in the industry where there was
just people who did fight for you. You could get
like you could be good in a room and also
get because people are so passionate about you, you can
get this like.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
You know, fantastic, like life.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Changing, career changing role from just being good one time
in a room. Nowadays, from all my friends who are
you know, directors, casting directors, other actors. How casting works nowadays,
from what I understand a lot of the time is
they have their A choice and their B choice and
(32:50):
because nobody can agree on the A choice or the
B choice, nine times out of ten, the person who
gets the job is the C choice because they don't
because they just don't hate that person, because they're not
like passion.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
They're more neutral. And when you watch a lot of shows,
you're like, man, there's a lot of sea choices.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Up there, right right right.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
That's why people go back to this show so often
because the casting is fantastic, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
I agree, they nailed the casting on this so well. Yeah,
and it's like as great a performance as Lauren gives,
I feel that every other actor in this show delivers
(33:40):
an equally stunning performance.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I mean, I mean, just no matter how big or small,
the role is as memorable, you know, maybe not as
emotionally involved. We don't get to spend as much time.
We spend a lot of time with Lauren, and we should.
It's our show. So but yeah, what a.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Ca There's not a week link in the bunch.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
No, And that's another exciting The exciting part of the
job was you get to go, you know, hit the
ball around with some great players.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Oh yeah, it's that it improves your game.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
You just kind of you get shirt automatically as.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
It's like you know, you know it's sink or swim
over there, because man, I tell you, you know, it's like
it's like the New York theater scene they'll just eat
you alive. If you can't hang right, they will just
chew you up, spit you out. Next. Yeah, it's like
and that's what this was like. And it was just
(34:40):
like perfect environment for me, perfect, just so great. Love
the challenges that that show presented because you don't get that. Yeah, no,
you don't get you don't get that now.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
You definitely don't get the level of writing that the
show obviously had. But then also, like you're saying, when
you work nowadays, sometimes somebody will be cast who's like
an influencer or like whatever. I mean, I haven't worked
with too many people like that, but then, but from
what I hear, it's like it's just like putting training
(35:15):
wheels on and learning to write it. They don't know
how to do anything more than like not to minimize.
Because there's some influencers who are talented and amazing, but
they sometimes don't know how to do more than like
fifteen seconds to a minute at a time. So doing
a six page scene or a monologue where you have
to be verbatim perfect, no, and they get recast. And
(35:38):
so it's an expensive mistake that people make nowadays by
not like just actually reading people and then giving the
role to the person who's right for the job.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
It's just so unfortunate, and I mean, all I have
to do is like, I'm sure you do it, and
you see it, and I see it, and I look
through these shows and I'm like, how on earth did
they did this get made? With these people? What's happening?
You know? Where are the standards? The standards are just
out the window now Again.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
It's perceived value more than just somebody who can really
make you feel something, right, right, I think again, like
like we were saying, like I was saying earlier, like
you sell yourself out to try to like get somebody
to like you. And I feel like our industry has
done a little bit of that. They've tried to sell
themselves out kind of to get more people to like us.
(36:29):
In the process, less and less people do.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Right, because it's no longer you know, the the the
format has changed, the business model has changed completely. It's
not about gathering people around the TV set once a
week at a prescribed time. It's about and then keeping
(36:54):
them for year after year after. It's not about that.
It's about it's about just jamming overwhelming amounts of content
down everybody's throat, right, doesn't matter if it's any good,
and it's never going to have a chance, it's never
going to have a chance to build a real community
around it, except for the outlier you know this maybe
(37:16):
a Stranger Things or something like that. And even those
shows don't last beyond you know, four years, because then,
you know, the business model doesn't allow that show to continue.
They just want to just keep you know, keep general
churning out all of this new content content content. And
that's a constructive you know, that's a contract of construct
(37:37):
of big tech. That's how they want it, right, And
it's like, my desire to remain in the business is
not what it was because of this process and who's
getting cast and how they're getting everything that you've pointed out.
And it's not like adapt or die. It's like it's
(37:59):
you know, maintaining standards. It's like, what quality of work
are you willing to do? You know, how far are
you willing to lower your standards to have a job
in the industry.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
I mean, people will, people will.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Times is tough, so people will do whatever to kind
of you know, times are.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Tough, right, yes, exactly, Yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
I think it's also like sort of like mirroring the
socioeconomic landscape as well, because if you only keep people
for four years, and you have a deal with them
for only four years, and you don't have to renegotiate
because the show is not going to go beyond that,
they can keep people coming in and going for cheap
and it's the new thing, the new thing, the new thing,
so that people don't get a chance to really build
(38:41):
their career and gain longevity and also increase their value.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
So there it's a way of sort of keeping things
fast and cheap and the hot new thing, and it's
it's it's an unfortunate part of what the industry has become,
but it wasn't what the industry was. And I feel
really lucky that I kind of grew up in a
(39:09):
version of the industry. Like when I was on The Nanny,
I got to work with I got to work with
Elizabeth Taylor, I got to work with like Donald O'Connor,
like these like legends of like the silver screen, like
I was even though because I was so young, but
I got an education from like Jason Alexander did a
guest star on The Nanny, so I got to talk
(39:31):
like to George Costanza and he you know, we did
the times together. Like I got to have these amazing
moments of like learning from a totally different generation than
my own and really got such a beautiful education in
terms of you know, like watching people in their craft
(39:51):
and also they're professionalism, there their grace, Like people who
came on the show. I remember just feeling like, wow,
these are the best humans. They told the best like
I mean, like the character actors, best stories. They were
always going to like you know, they had family vacations planned.
(40:11):
I was just like, I was like, I want to
grow up and be a working actor, you know, and
just and just continue to do this because those to
me were the like most lovely humans.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
And so yeah, I'm still doing it. But it's crazy.
It's a crazy industry. Now.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, the epitaph for the industry. I mean, I feel
for great filmmakers. I feel for all the visionary filmmakers
and that aren't going to be able to express their voice.
I feel for people like you know, the next crop
of Tarantinos, you know, this kind of thing. I mean,
(40:51):
that guy was Technology pushed that guy out of the
business because he couldn't do it on film, and he
was rebelling against digital and continues to And it's sad
because that, you know, the great storytellers of our time
are being defeated by technology. That's one of the big
(41:12):
things I noticed on the Netflix episodes when we came
back to do those episodes. The level of technology overwhelmed
the set. It became about what they were capable of doing,
and they got some great stuff, but at what cost,
you know what I mean? So I know I feel
the same way. I'm watching it too, and it's you know,
(41:32):
what do you I don't know what to do about it.
Just accept forge alliances with like minded people, and do
your own projects the way you want to do them.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
I think that's I think that's really the secret. And
also the form changes, right because there is like like
YouTube has has made it possible for there be for
there to be a democratization of content. So if people
do put something together that's good and they can just
put it out themselves, they bypass a lot of the
(42:08):
the monsters of the industry that are like the gatekeepers,
you know. So so I think like there is hope
for for new generations of storytellers if we can all
keep our attention span growing, which I know my attention
span is.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Being chopped up as well.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
So I think it's just, you know, we're all we're
all in a in a in an interesting chapter of
life with the like the like the threat of AI
and all these kind of things, and I think the
only thing that really can keep us, you know, grounded
and tethered to our own humanity is, like you were saying,
to connect with other humans that like share your values,
(42:53):
mirror even like higher standards back and and can keep
us kind of like in a place of hopefulness because
we have have to keep hope alive. We have to
keep that little spark of inspiration and joy and the
love of storytelling and the love of connecting with people
through shared experience. You know, I think just just remaining
(43:17):
to just keep that as as the core of what
we need to share with each other so that we
can kind of see ourselves through what feels like kind
of a dark chapter. Not to be heavy, sorry, like
it's a light podcast. I have no problem. I'm like
always bringing in the existential dread questions.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Sorry, that's okay. I mean somebody's got to play Devil's
advocate because nobody wants to do it anymore, I'll just
want to go along, right And.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yeah, no, And I feel the same because Med.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
And it's like, come on for you to speak speaking up?
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Well, I mean, look, because again I'm from I'm even
though I'm I'm young ish, I'm not really that young,
but like I feel like I'm I'm to this older
generation because of this lineage of storytelling and because I
have been doing this for so long, I have so
much skin in the game, like an embarrassing amount, you know,
(44:12):
Like you know, when you've been doing something for thirty
something years, you should be.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Able to retire.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
I wish I could so, but but uh yeah, you know.
But that's why people love this show, right, That's why
people come back. That's why I watch Friends over and
I fall asleep watching Friends every night, you know what
I mean. Because I'm like, it's.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
That cast is perfection.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
This cast is perfection because they they really had to
earn every role and they were the best for that role.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Period.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
You know, it was more of a meritocracy when we
were coming up, right, it just was more It's still
there were still people who got jobs, and like there
was still like this and that.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
But.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
It was much more like, if you were good, you
could survive. In fact, you could thrive.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Well. If I had to do it all over again,
I would have entered professional wrestling.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, do you smell what theck is cooking? And you're like,
and then I would just have my own production studio
and I could.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
I never should have left the gym. In the gym,
go not acting classes to stay in the gym. Madeline,
you have to come back. We have more ground to cover.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Okay, okay, I'd love to at least come back.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
It was really great talking to you and I love
your insights, So you have to come back. We're gonna
make that commitment right now. It's a verbal contract. So
if you don't come back, you're in trouble.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Oh good, I'm a.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Good deal. Good deal, Madelin Zeema, thank you so much.
We're going to wrap this up right now. Best fans
on the planet. Thanks for download and keep the cards
and letters coming and the emails as well. We love
them all, and remember where you lead, we will follow.
Stay safe, everyone, do everybody to forget. Follow us on
(46:35):
Instagram at I Am all In podcast and email us
at Gilmore at iHeartRadio dot com.