July 23, 2026 • 42 mins
The “Elite Recruiter” Deepali Vyas is here to help YOU land a job or get a promotion after your divorce!
Deepali is telling you what to put on (and keep off) your resume, how to negotiate the pay you deserve, and what to keep in mind when looking for a job post-divorce.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hey, I do part two. It's your host, Jenny Garth. Okay,
do you remember that show from a few years ago?
It was called Younger. Hillary Duff was in it and
I just love her. Sutton Foster was in it as well,
and it's all about a divorced woman who put her
career on hold to raise her child and be a wife,
(00:38):
and then in her forties, she found herself divorced and
having to enter back into the workforce, only no one
would hire her because of her age. That story, I know,
is so true to many people listening to this podcast.
Working post divorce can be daunting, but it doesn't have
(00:59):
to be. My guest today is depoly Vias, an executive
recruiter and career strategist known as the Elite Recruiter. She
has spent more than twenty five years advising Fortune five
hundred companies, hedge funds, private equity firms, and I cannot
wait to talk to her. Hello de Polly, Hi, nice
(01:22):
to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. How
are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm good. I'm having a moment because it's just full
circle and you know you're going to get this all
the time, I'm sure. But Kelly Martin or Kelly and
Donna Martin. I'm Kelly, and I just like, oh my god,
my sister and I would like die for each episode
(01:48):
when they came out. So it's really nice to meet you.
And yeah, I've been a fan and.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
With all of your stuff beyond that, you well, I'm
so excited to talk to you today because you used
to have some very valuable information that we have got
to get out there. Okay, so let's say I'm a
divorce woman listening to this podcast right now. I've been
married for the last eighteen years, and maybe I did
a little part time work here and there, or I
(02:15):
put my career on hold to focus on my kids.
Now boom, I'm divorced, single and on a single income.
Where do I start? First? Do I make a resume?
Do I go on LinkedIn? What do I do?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah? So I would say the first things that I
would advise is sort of a what I call a
five step reset. One. I would know your economics, right,
what do you need to earn? And what are you worth?
You mentioned that you know you're working part time or
this person you know had experience, they took time off,
(02:52):
So what are your economics? What do you need to earn?
And what are you worth? The second thing is you're
right audit your career assets, right, skills do you have?
What accomplishments do you have and where do you need
to put them on a resume? And LinkedIn right, so
what is your digital footprint out there? Both of them?
Then I would say the third thing is define your constraints,
(03:15):
because you might have constraints on geography, flexibility, travel, benefits, schedule,
all of those things are going to factor in if
your divorce plus.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Mom right right, right right?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
And then the fourth and fifth thing. Fourth is rebuild
your narrative. Right, you don't have to tell the market
what happened to you. You need to tell it exactly right.
You need to tell it what you're capable of next, yes,
right and fact. The fifth is creating optionality right, building
(03:49):
relationships and potential income streams before you desperately need.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Them, right, okay, getting ahead of it exactly optionality. Yeah,
that leverage, That is leverage because then you it's not
all your eggs aren't in one basket.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well like, look take you for example, right, you've actually
lived something I talk about all the time. Your identity
didn't stop at one version of your career or one
chapter of your personal life. Right right? Actress, mother, author, entrepreneur, podcaster.
You continued adding lanes, and that's what I mean about optionality.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So get multi hyphen it.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Multi hyphen it is that, especially because I think what
women forget sometimes is that they have this experience and
then they kind of just push it down, you know,
when they.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Go like downplay it or right, totally a big deal.
I was, you know, just ran the whatever at the bank.
But yeah, list all your accomplishments, like a.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Bad ass before. I was a badass mom, and now
I'm coming back.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Get ready for me. I love that. Wait, what are
your top three things that every woman should be prepared
for when she is going into that drop interview?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, I would say know your narrative and like really
get in front of it. I think where people make
a lot of mistakes are so you may have this
anxiety about, oh my god, I have this huge gap
on my resume, I've been out of the market, whatever.
When you're in front of an interviewer, the last thing
you want to do is have them address it before
(05:29):
you can tell your story. Right. So, if I'm sitting
in front of you. I'm like, oh, Kelly, you know
you had a five year gap. Can you tell me
about it? You know what Kelly's thinking. I keep saying, Kelly,
Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I don't know why
I keep saying that. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Okay, generic Kelly Kelly, So everybody Kelly named Kelly.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yes, they are thinking. They just asked me this question,
and now I have to dig myself out of this
hole and get to neutral just to feel like I'm
on an even playing field. So what I tell my
clients is get in front of that story. As soon
as you sit down, and the first question is naturally
going to be tell me about yourself. You address that
(06:08):
before they even get there. He tell me, tell you
I have been you know, uh, previously I was the
VP of MX and Strategic Partnerships. I took some time
to do family planning. But these are the skills that
I've kept, you know, up to snuff with, and I've
learned all about AI. And this is why this role
(06:28):
is great for me at this time. Now, since you've
already addressed the elephant in the room, like they can't say, well, wait,
why did you take five years off? I already got
ahead of it. I already told you I took time
for family planning.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Mm hmmmm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
That's so smart. Okay, so that's like number one, right,
what's the what's a couple of other ones?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So the second thing I would say is have stories ready,
Like what are your I'm going to call them the
star stories, right, So what challenging situations have you been in?
What tasks did you do, what action did you take,
and what was the result. That's star and you should
have three or four of those. And whether or not
(07:09):
you've been in and out of the market, you can
go back into your stories and say, this is how
I dealt with conflict. Then I know times have changed,
Here's how my you know, here's how I've matured over
this amount of time, and this is how I would
approach it now. Logical thinking. Right, So even if you
have sort of quote unquote outdated experience, doesn't mean that
you haven't been living life and interacting with people.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
You could have been you know, heading up the PTA,
or you could have been on a nonprofit or whatever
you were doing in between that time, keeping yourself busy,
and so you can interject those things. But you should
have a bag of stories so you don't feel like
you're reaching or you or someone just kind of stops
you in your tracks and you have nothing to say.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
What if you? What if you? Or your story is
that I have taken I have just taken time off
to be a mom and raise my kids.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And that's fine, and say, the lessons that I've learned
as a mother has been, patients has been you know,
so you you completely narrate what you've built with experience
in whatever you were doing. So that's what I would.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Say, yes, even as a mom, like, look at all
the things if you sat and wrote them down and
thought it through.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
You're you're like the CFO of the house. You are
the chief Procurement Officer of the house. Right, you're the
chief operations officer of the house. Like, those are.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
All little skills, they truly are.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Right. You can multitask, right, you can delegate you like,
you can operate, you know, in a in a high
functioning way with multiple tasks, which, by the way, isn't
that a job?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah? It is, right, hardest job ever.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah. And the third thing I would say is that
I would I would be really really in front of
like your sort of brand like spoon feeding them what
you want them to know about you, right, Like, this
is what I'm really good at. Because the thing about interviewers,
right this, this sort of state secret, is that that
(09:09):
interviewer in front of you just wants to get some
of those headlines and pass them over to the next interviewer.
So as long as your story stays consistent, they kind
of give them the highlight reel of your experience, so
you move on to the next interview.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
M oh Keauz. They're a rounds.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Oh yeah, sometimes, oh there are rounds like, yeah, what
do you say, what do you see as the biggest
mistake women are making out there when they're searching for
a job post divorce?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, I think, you know, a couple of things are
especially when you're in this sort of like fragile moment
of you've now gone through something so personal and you
start bleeding your identity and your narrative between personal and professional.
It really does come through. And you know, I think
it is hard, and I don't you know, take it lightly.
(10:04):
Where you're going through something emotional, it's obviously going to
seep into like your energy and all of that. But
if there's any like way. For that half an hour
or forty five minutes that you can completely compartmentalize your
personal from your professional, it will be a very good thing.
And all you have to tell yourself is, like, listen,
(10:25):
it's forty five minutes that I do not have to
think about that, Right. And then it depends on like
who you're in front of. Right, if you're in a
creative profession, and if that is something that is kind
of fueling you or driving you, you can certainly talk
about it. But if you're going into a banking environment, right,
or private equity or whatever it is, and you know
(10:48):
they're buttoned up, you probably don't want to lead with
that or have that seek through in your conversations.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
You don't want to give them like your mom stories.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Only after they've fall in love with you.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, you gotta wait, so true?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
What?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Okay? So I know looking for a job can be
really overwhelming. I see how hard it is for my friends,
and I even see how hard it is for my
young adult daughters as a single mom. What things should
you be mindful of when you're looking and what should
be things that you should be a little more flexible
(11:26):
on during your search?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, you know, I think the biggest thing is sort
of a mindset. I would say you have to think
about it as if you are not starting over, you're
starting with receipts. So whether you're forty five or fifty
or fifty five, right, you have receipts. And that what
I mean by that is you have judgment, you have
pattern recognition, you have relationships, you have scar tissue, you
(11:50):
know what you're good at, you know what you're terrible
at too, by the way, yes, and so I think
you you what you should start by is what environments
bring out your best work? Right? And that and that
means like what can I still do? And then it's
also what do I want to do with everything that
I know now? Right? And sometimes it could be you know,
(12:12):
I actually tell this and and you know, yes this
this is great for your audience in that segment, But
if you actually think about the analogy of like what
do you tell your kids? Right? I have a son
and you know, look, coming from an Indian background, it's
always about like math and science. My son is not
a math and science guy, right, and so like for
(12:34):
me to push that and his father to push that,
it's like I don't I don't want him resenting us
for it, right.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Right, Right?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
And so I tell you know a lot of parents
of kids like tell them to lean into their strengths.
That same advice goes for women. What are your strengths? Like,
don't force yourself into I'm going to take this project
management job when you're not really till oriented.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
That's not for you.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Then you know, like you need to go somewhere where
there's more vision or there's more you know, unstructure or
whatever it is, right Like, you get to think on
your feet and you get to do all of these things,
and it's a little bit more in that vein. So
that's what I say about, you know, what can you
do and what are you really good at? And lean
into that?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, for sure, because this is you're making a big
decision as you move into this next huge phase of
your life.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah. And I think it's also scarcity thinking, right, Like, Yeah,
a lot of people are just kind of like, man,
I just need someone to give me a chance, right,
And that scarcity changes your behavior, right like you apply
to everything, you accept less money, you overlook red flags,
you don't negotiate, you tolerate bad managers, right like you
(13:47):
take the first offer, right, And we've learned that in
business and in real estate and all these things. Never
take the first offer, right, Like you have to negotiate,
and so like, don't sell yourself short just because you've
had this life event and that you think that you
don't have enough to offer.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Don't sell yourself short. It take some time, right, sit
down with yourself and a notepad and a pen, and
like talk yourself up to yourself, like make a list
of all of your accomplishments so far, Like yep, all
the things that you've done. I mean, when you really
do that and you go back and you look at
that list, you'll probably be impressed.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think that you know what, it's
also give yourself permission to reinvent.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Oh right, yes, right?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Why not?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah? You know, sometimes a marriage isn't the only identity
someone has outgrown, right, Maybe it's you know, you became
the flexible parent or the person who didn't travel or whatever.
And you might say, like, you know, I don't actually
have to keep making the same professional choices, right, Sometimes
(14:58):
you maybe were just optimized seeing your career for things
that don't exist anymore, Like and I know it's terrifying,
but like, hey, you know, if if you know Walmart
was founded by a forty four year old, why not you?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Why not you? You know, there's so many inspirational stories
like that, Like I think women should just seek those
out too, like pump it up, pump us up, pump
yourself and then just dream.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I would also join, like, you know, professional communities because
like women do love helping other women absolutely, you know,
And like I'm having a I'm part of this change
the Board Game initiative and we are bringing in women
that are that want to be aspiring board members with
current board members and it's like if you don't know
(15:45):
what it's like, like you need to be in the room.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You need to Yes, you need to be asking the
questions and curious and having people around you that are
smarter than you.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, that is honestly, Jenny. That is like number one.
If I if I gave any advice to your audience,
I would say, Okay, you shed this thing with whatever
was happening with your divorce, look around your neighborhood, your associations, whatever,
and level it up because proximity brings opportunity.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I love that proximity proximity brings opportunity. You guys, did
you hear that little nugget? Okay, what about a resume?
Which should people hire a resume writer? Is that even
a good investment or should they just be using AI?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
So I'm gonna say, I'm going to give you that
answer in two parts. Okay, I think AI is amazing.
I use every AI tool on the planet. So your
first draft thinking, you should definitely put into AI and say, hey,
this is all my stuff, you know, put something together
for me. Again, it's your first draft. It may not
capture the essence there are. And then the second part
(16:54):
of that is if you were just not used to,
you know, putting together a docum that is going to
pass the ATS or it's going to pass a recruiter
or the hiring manager test, then investing in someone that
can write your resume really well will serve you well.
Because the modern resume right now, and look, I've read
(17:15):
a million resumes right in my recruiter role. I know
exactly how I read them. Up top. I read it
like an f like up top and then down, and
then I might go back up and read your first
lines of experience. Right, That's how I read it and
now if you didn't know that, you wouldn't know how
to write it right, And a lot of people end
up putting their whole life story on there. There's a
lot of word salad. I'm trying to parse through the noise.
(17:36):
And the one thing that I will say is that
oftentimes you have to think about it like this. If
you are not clear about your experience, right, you are
now putting the burden on someone like me that is
reading your resume and trying to figure you out. But
guess what I have, Jenny, I have a day job, right,
(17:58):
and so it takes time for me to figure you out.
So if you don't have clarity and that document is
not clear, then it you know, you stop short of
what you really can.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Be right, and too many words is just too many words?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Sometimes word salad sandwich is like to resume?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Do you think that is? Do you think AI is
doing the first scan of most resumes that are submitted now?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
They it is, so a lot of companies use AI
scanners to just pick up some of the keywords. So, yes,
that is happening. It does reach a human. So I
don't want to have a you know, misconception out there
it does reach a human. I think some of the
larger tech companies rely a little bit more on AI
just because they're getting an insane amount of applicants. But
(18:46):
I would say, you know, for the you know, look
for the hidden jebs, look for the mid sized companies
or the smaller companies that are going to take a
look at you because they're going to need someone like
you know. I'll give you a perfect example. There is
a company here in Long Island and the guy was like,
I actually just like hiring moms. And you know the
(19:09):
reason for that is because they multitask, and they know
that they have to drop their kids off in the
morning and they have to go pick their kids back up,
so that nine to two time slot is like optimal
work zone for them, and they have to get it done.
They don't have a choice. And he's like, that's why
I hire them, right, And he's like, my entire workforce
(19:30):
are moms and we get everything done. So my point
is like, there are employers like that out there that
actually prefer that skill set, like prefer that that type
of person.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
You never know because you kind of think, oh, they're
not going to want to hire me, or because I'm
a mom, or because I'm this age, maybe that's exactly
what they're looking for exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So but you have to ask, and you have to
you know, honestly, Like I will say, you know, finding
a job is a full time job. It takes a
lot of work. It's going to be a lot of calls,
going to be a lot of networking, it's going to
be a lot of you know, resume sends, and it's
a volume game and you and the one thing is
you can't take it personally. And the reason why I
say that is because after this type of event, you
(20:13):
have fragility in your ego, you have fragility in your
emotions and all of that. So I am really conscious
of that. And the last thing you want is another rejection,
right yeah, And so I will say that treat your
job like a business and that it's just a numbers game.
And then until you find the right sort of you know,
(20:35):
chemistry and and you know job that's right for you
and the culture that fits you, you can then kind
of invest your whole heart in it. But like, don't
worry about the rejections.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Honestly, m yeah, you know, those just aren't meant to
be yeah, and you're absolutely better off for it.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I feel like every time.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, it's a sign I'm.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Don't believe that this is okay. Do you think that
women out there re entering the workforce are experiencing agism?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yes? Yes, I talk about this all the time in
my content, and I think that you know, it's there's
something about I'll say this agism is real, and I
don't want to give women like a motivational answer that
pretends that it doesn't exist. And I've been in recruiting
(21:31):
for twenty five years. You don't combat agism by trying
to convince somebody you're younger, right, You combat it by
making your experience incredibly relevant. So every time you experience this,
I always tell people, whatever you're thinking, flip it on
its head. Right. If you're thinking I'm not young enough
(21:53):
or I'm not this enough, right, you need to flip
the narrative of like, I have this amount of experience
that I can do this job in half the time.
When if you hire a younger person, and that's the
other thing women, when you're out there interviewing and you're
interviewing for a full time job, you know, and if
(22:13):
they start if you start feeling this red flag on
agism or like you know, don't you know? I would
say slip it in there and give that potential hiring
manager optionality, like, Hey, what do you need to have
done in the next three months? What is your biggest challenge?
I could do that on a consulting basis for you.
(22:34):
How does that sound. Here's my retainer? Right?
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Why are you.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Constrained just because you hire? You were interviewing for a
full time role and they start thinking, I don't know
if I can afford her, she's too experienced. Right, but
you know you can do that job, and you can
do it in three months. Give them a consult and
they can more than likely get that consulting gig approved
(23:02):
faster than they can give you a full time offer.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Interesting, that is a you know what? That felt like
a shark tank hack moment.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
That is my super hack. That is my super hack,
and it happens all the time.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
You are a shark tank of hiring. Wow. Okay, I
hope people really understood that because that's a good one
because you can feel in the in the I almost
said audition, you can feel in the interview what's the undercurrent?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, and then and they'll say things like, wow, you
have a lot of experience. What that's agism, right, that's
ages undercover agism, so and so. And it might be
unconscious to it. It might just be an unconscious bias as
soon as they see you or they read that resume.
And that's when I tell people that, like, listen, you
(23:54):
got to turn it around. You got to say, listen,
what about my experience can lend itself really well in
the next six to eight weeks of something that you
need to complete, I can do that for you. And
here's what I would charge.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
That is good. Know what you're gonna charge too?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Definitely, no way you're going to charge because.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
That's hard being on the spot like that, like coming
up with a number.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
But remember when I talked about, like, know you're earning
potential noise your worth, right, so like you can reverse
engineer talk to AI. Hey, AI, I used to make
you know, two hundred thousand dollars full time. This is
the amount of experience that I've had, This is the
break that I've had. Give me five comparisons of this
type of role in the market between mid size and
(24:37):
large sized companies. All right, So then it'll spit something
back to you and say, yeah, you're probably in the
two to two fifty range. All right, So let me
break that down into if I were to be a
consultant for three months, what would be my monthly retainer
wealthy poly, it would be ten thousand dollars a month.
That's what I would propose.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
That's how you use AI too people right to even
getting a job.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It's like exactly sir, for you, and now you have
thirty thousand dollars in your pocket while you keep looking.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Well, you keep looking smart. You're smart cooking. Okay, are
there things that you should leave off your resume until
you land that interview, like your college graduation year, so
(25:25):
you're not you know, compared, So.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Another sort of one of my hacks. Right, So, look,
I've been in industry for now twenty six years, right, almost
twenty seven. My resume is probably a page and a half.
I do not have graduation years on my resume, not
need it. You know what I'm good at, and this
is what I know. And I would say after the
(25:52):
first or after your last sort of ten years, everything
else should be kind of folded into like smaller points.
And I will say this to you right now. No one,
I don't care how much experience you have needs more
than a two page resume period full stop.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, nobody's going to read it if it's longer than
two pages, right, Like recruiters read resumes for about six
seconds oof literally in an f formation. That's like, you've
got to get it in the top.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah. I want to know your summary, and that summary, Jenny,
is like the killer thing. I want to know what
you do, how you do it, and what were your
accomplishments in the first couple of lines. That is what's
going to travel to the next person. Yes, then I'm
going to see, all right, well, how many jobs have
they kind of had, like what's their kind of experience set?
(26:44):
And then I'm going to look at that last job,
like your most recent job, right, I'm going to look
at that and I'm going to say, hmm, all right,
there's some metrics there. This is what they impacted. Here
are some numbers. They increased revenue by twenty percent, or
they saved us, you know, some costs by thirty percent.
I'm looking for numbers, and if you don't have numbers
on your resume, you're doing it wrong. And I would
(27:05):
say that. Look, why do companies hire anybody at all?
What are they? What's the what's the goal of the.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Company to fulfill a job, to get something done?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
To get something done? But why are they in business?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
To make money?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Boom every company. I don't care how mission driven they
are or whatever. They want to make money. So whatever
is on your resume, you need to follow the dollar right,
Have I helped the company save money? What are those numbers?
Or have I helped the company make money? Put those
(27:42):
dollars in. That's it. That's the resume.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
And what if you don't know, Like if you're coming
off of a job and you're like, I don't know,
how did I raise money for them? Or did I
did I move the needle?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
You know? And I'll tell you how you know? And
this is a this is my other I have a
lot of hacks.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
You got a lot of hacks.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So my other filter that I use is what I
call the so what filter? Three times? Okay, okay. So
what I mean by that is when you look at
your bullet point and you're like, okay, I created reports
for the finance function, so what Well my reports informed
them on what decisions to make from a cost cutting perspective.
(28:24):
So what well, those decisions led to forty percent cost savings.
So what well, forty percent cost savings increased our you know,
spend for next year's budget. That, right, there is the
impact you had by your little report. Right. That's how
(28:45):
you follow the.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Doll, You find it, sniff it out, That's how you
get there. The whole divorce process, I'm not sure if
you've ever been divorced, but the whole process can really
break down our confidence sometimes. Yeah, how do women regain
that when getting back into the workforce or even when
(29:08):
they're you know, on a job and they're advocating for
themselves or maybe they're trying to get a promotion or
raise at work. How do they get that confidence back?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah? I mean, look, I think that first I would
separate confidence and competence. Good idea, because divorce can absolutely
shake your confidence. I realize that it doesn't erase your confidence.
I remember when I was talking about compartmentalizing, That's what
(29:40):
I was talking about, And I think that, you know,
I wouldn't. You know, it's there's not enough platitudes in
the world to say believe in yourself. There's you know,
if you're gonna always get that. I think kind of
going back and doing a really reflective audit on what
have you accomplished, what have you survived? What are you
(30:02):
exceptionally good at? Right, and like all of these things
should rebuild your confidence in a way of like, man,
if I look back, these are things that I did
and you said that, right, Like just to really kind
of sit down. Remember you know, when you're younger, everyone
always used to say, before you make a decision, like
do a pro and calm list, right, Like it was
(30:23):
always like that, And so it's it's a little bit
of that, right and you and again you stop letting
that one relationship become the referendum of your work. So
I would say, even like these small wins, I would
I would literally have sort of a page on my refrigerator,
and any small win I would just start, you know,
writing it down. It starts rebuilding your confidence because you're
(30:46):
now kind of seeing it on the page of like,
should I mind it a lot?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah? You know, Oh I love this. I can't wait
for women to do these things and get proactive. We
got to talk about something very important, which is okay,
getting the pay we deserve, negotiating salary during the hiring
process is not easy. It's not easy for anyone. It's
I am not a good negotiator. What advice would you
give to a woman on how to effectively negotiate for
(31:12):
the pay rate she deserves?
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yeah, so this is probably my number one question of
all time. First of all, you don't have to be
a great negotiator. You just have to be really prepared, okay.
And so what I mean by that is you need
three numbers. You need to know what the market pays
right for that role that you're going for. So go
(31:37):
to flap store, go to levels Dot fy I, do
all of that research. What is the number you want
right and the number below you are prepared to walk away? Okay?
So those are the three numbers in your head floating
around when you are in front of that you know,
recruiter or hiring manager or whatever. The biggest mistake you
(31:59):
can is negotiating against yourself. So I always say the
first person that to throw out a number loses. Okay.
So what you want to do is like, you have
those three numbers in your head and you're like, you
need to ask them, well, what is the range for
someone of my skill level? And experience that you That is,
(32:20):
you know that this role will allow to operate for
me to operate at the top of my license, right,
And so when you say that, you're now saying like, hey, look,
I know I can operate at this level. You tell
me what I'm worth, and then as soon as they
give you that number, you can then say, well, actually, X,
(32:42):
Y and Z firms at this pay pay level is
at this level. So you now come with data in
facts versus emotion. The second thing I would say is
that you know I hate the open ended questions like
what are you looking to make? Right? You need to
counter that again, not with numbers, but like, I'd love
(33:04):
to understand the scope of the position, the overall compensation structure.
When you say overall compensation structure, you now have inserted
into their heads. There's more than just base salary. I
want to know about bonus. I want to know about RSUs.
I want to know all about signons. I want to
know about relocation assistance. I want to know about equity.
(33:26):
I want to know about all of it. Right, I
want to know how much flexibility I have that will
determine whether or not I will accept a lower base salary,
but a higher bonus if I could work remotely, right, Like,
so you're playing with all of these numbers, right, And
so I think women sometimes negotiate and then negotiate against
(33:46):
themselves because they are really uncomfortable in that silence, right,
Like they just want to be like let me just
let me just get it done, you know, versus like
it's okay to go back. They expect you to go back,
and if you don't go back, they're kind of like, oh,
you know, we kind of pulled one over her.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
So they expect you to negotiate.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Oh, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Okay, that's good to know.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
There's definitely gonna be some some recruiters that are hard
asses of like this is all we can do, right,
lead and he loves you, Right, if the company has
fallen in love with you and you are the lead candidate,
you have a lot of sway and you can go
back and say, well what do you think about a
sign on? Well what do you and all the things
(34:30):
that like those guys put you in a box for
of like base and bonus, like there's all these other
things that they can play with.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That is very good to remember because it gets it
can get emotional and then you just you lose your cool,
like you lose.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
And that's the thing. Plan it does get emotional because
for whatever reason, you start tying your personal worth to
your professional worth. And then it's like you almost make
it adversarial, right, and negotiating, And that's the thing. There's
like almost like a negative connotation to negotiating. It's like,
negotiating isn't fighting, right, You're not trying to beat the company, right,
(35:08):
You're trying to structure an agreement where both sides feel
good about saying yes.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I like that. That's a better way to look at it. Yeah,
much more positive.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Okay, we've talked about rebuilding your career or reigniting your
career post divorce, and yes, it can all be a
little bit scary, but there's also a lot of beautiful
things that can come out of it. Yeah, what are
some of the positive things that you've seen come with careers?
(35:51):
In chapter two?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Yeah, so you know, I've actually, you know, had at
our age, we do know quite a few people that
are in that situation, and we've had some very close
friends go through divorce. And I think one of the
sort of beautiful things that I think about if it
because I'm you know, eternally optimistic, right, is that the
(36:16):
second chapter for women is, you know, I to stop
building a career around who they were supposed to be
and start building one around who they actually are. And
I think that you know, women that come out of
this with clarity and agency, by the way, like agency, right,
(36:40):
Like probably in that relationship, there was probably a lot
of moments where they felt like they couldn't make their
own decisions, right, So you look at the positive of this, right,
like you're gonna have agency to make your own decisions
and support you.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Oh yeah, right, this isn't your said that is like
the but I love that word so much agency because
we lose it, we lose sight of it, we let
it slip slip away. Yeah, and this is an opportunity
you guys absolutely reclaim it and you.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Get to set new boundaries, right and big.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Ones whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Right, Once you survived your life blowing up a bit right, right,
like saying no to a bad meeting or negotiating salary,
it doesn't feel as terrifying, like you have to look
at it that way, right, And so I think you
discover that you can rebuild and I feel like that's
sort of the the positives out of this. I mean,
I knew a woman, a good friend of mine, who
(37:52):
really kind of didn't find herself in the marriage. Like
she was just kind of going through job after job
and she wasn't like he was making good money and so,
but you know, their chemistry had fallen apart or whatever,
and so when they ultimately did get divorced, you know,
it took her. You know, she was one of those
people She's like depa I couldn't even move the cup
(38:14):
from here to hear. I was just kind of depressed
and lost. And then when she finally came out of it,
you know, this woman like went on this sort of
I'm going to meet everyone and network everywhere and whatever.
And now she has like she started building these like
you know, wellness clinics and things like that because she
(38:37):
networked with some of these doctors that she knew and whatever.
It was complete departure from like those odds and ends
jobs that she had during her marriage. So it's like
it's honestly, and I don't say this with like the motive,
you know, the sappy motivational quotes, but like literally it's limitless.
(39:01):
It's literally limitless for you when you're kind of broken
free from.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Those school Yes, Oh my gosh, such important messaging. I've
talked about that before too, Like, don't look at it
as I'm aging or I'm aging out of things, or
I you know, think of it as I'm becoming whatever
the f I want to become. Yeah, because the only
person that is holding you back is you.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I talk about that all the time. Like,
you know, I talk about sort of like a what's
the difference between a B plus life and an A life? Right?
B plus is good enough?
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Right?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Intent I like a B plus right.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
B plus is fine? But if you have the opportunity
for a how would you do it differently? Right? I
mean like, look, I'm going to be forty eight this week,
my birthdays in two, thank you. I have never and
again I don't have you know, I'm married and all
(40:02):
of that, so I don't have, you know, the situation
that others do. But in the last eighteen months, I've
completely reinvented myself, even though I had something like normal. Right,
So I have my day job of being an executive
search consultant and running a global practice and all of that,
(40:23):
and then I started doing all the social media stuff
and now I have a media company and I have
ten employees and like I'm running around town and I'm
writing a book and all the like. I've never done
more at the age of forty eight, which is why
I say, like, combating agism is not a thing, right, Like,
you can do so much, you just don't know what
(40:44):
you're capable of until you try.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
You can laughing for that one. Oh, it's so good.
You are so wonderful. If people want to work with you, Depoly,
how do they do that? What do they need to do?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
So I'm known as the Elite Recruiter online on Instagram
and TikTok and then depolyviias dot com and we do
help people rewrite their resumes and get career coaching and
all of that stuff. And I have a fabulous team
handpicked industry experts. We do not I pick top level
(41:20):
people that have been in hiring decisions in order to
help people in a very real way because I don't
believe in like theory.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Gorgeous. Thank you guys, look her.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Up, Jenny, Thank you so much, and thank you for
letting me have my little fangirl moment.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Oh my god, no problem. I was happy that it was.
I was here for it. Thank you so much for
being on this pod. Everybody's going to love it.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Thank you, appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Nice to meet you too.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Are you newly divorced and getting your career back on track?
Are you having huge success with your career in chapter
two and you want to share your experience, Send us
an email or leave us a voicemail. All the info
is in the show notes. Follow us on Socials I
Do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love
(42:11):
is the main objective.
Hey, I do part two. It's your host, Jenny Garth. Okay,
do you remember that show from a few years ago?
It was called Younger. Hillary Duff was in it and
I just love her. Sutton Foster was in it as well,
and it's all about a divorced woman who put her
career on hold to raise her child and be a wife,
(00:38):
and then in her forties, she found herself divorced and
having to enter back into the workforce, only no one
would hire her because of her age. That story, I know,
is so true to many people listening to this podcast.
Working post divorce can be daunting, but it doesn't have
(00:59):
to be. My guest today is depoly Vias, an executive
recruiter and career strategist known as the Elite Recruiter. She
has spent more than twenty five years advising Fortune five
hundred companies, hedge funds, private equity firms, and I cannot
wait to talk to her. Hello de Polly, Hi, nice
(01:22):
to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. How
are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm good. I'm having a moment because it's just full
circle and you know you're going to get this all
the time, I'm sure. But Kelly Martin or Kelly and
Donna Martin. I'm Kelly, and I just like, oh my god,
my sister and I would like die for each episode
(01:48):
when they came out. So it's really nice to meet you.
And yeah, I've been a fan and.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
With all of your stuff beyond that, you well, I'm
so excited to talk to you today because you used
to have some very valuable information that we have got
to get out there. Okay, so let's say I'm a
divorce woman listening to this podcast right now. I've been
married for the last eighteen years, and maybe I did
a little part time work here and there, or I
(02:15):
put my career on hold to focus on my kids.
Now boom, I'm divorced, single and on a single income.
Where do I start? First? Do I make a resume?
Do I go on LinkedIn? What do I do?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah? So I would say the first things that I
would advise is sort of a what I call a
five step reset. One. I would know your economics, right,
what do you need to earn? And what are you worth?
You mentioned that you know you're working part time or
this person you know had experience, they took time off,
(02:52):
So what are your economics? What do you need to earn?
And what are you worth? The second thing is you're
right audit your career assets, right, skills do you have?
What accomplishments do you have and where do you need
to put them on a resume? And LinkedIn right, so
what is your digital footprint out there? Both of them?
Then I would say the third thing is define your constraints,
(03:15):
because you might have constraints on geography, flexibility, travel, benefits, schedule,
all of those things are going to factor in if
your divorce plus.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Mom right right, right right?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
And then the fourth and fifth thing. Fourth is rebuild
your narrative. Right, you don't have to tell the market
what happened to you. You need to tell it exactly right.
You need to tell it what you're capable of next, yes,
right and fact. The fifth is creating optionality right, building
(03:49):
relationships and potential income streams before you desperately need.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Them, right, okay, getting ahead of it exactly optionality. Yeah,
that leverage, That is leverage because then you it's not
all your eggs aren't in one basket.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well like, look take you for example, right, you've actually
lived something I talk about all the time. Your identity
didn't stop at one version of your career or one
chapter of your personal life. Right right? Actress, mother, author, entrepreneur, podcaster.
You continued adding lanes, and that's what I mean about optionality.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So get multi hyphen it.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Multi hyphen it is that, especially because I think what
women forget sometimes is that they have this experience and
then they kind of just push it down, you know,
when they.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Go like downplay it or right, totally a big deal.
I was, you know, just ran the whatever at the bank.
But yeah, list all your accomplishments, like a.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Bad ass before. I was a badass mom, and now
I'm coming back.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Get ready for me. I love that. Wait, what are
your top three things that every woman should be prepared
for when she is going into that drop interview?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, I would say know your narrative and like really
get in front of it. I think where people make
a lot of mistakes are so you may have this
anxiety about, oh my god, I have this huge gap
on my resume, I've been out of the market, whatever.
When you're in front of an interviewer, the last thing
you want to do is have them address it before
(05:29):
you can tell your story. Right. So, if I'm sitting
in front of you. I'm like, oh, Kelly, you know
you had a five year gap. Can you tell me
about it? You know what Kelly's thinking. I keep saying, Kelly,
Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I don't know why
I keep saying that. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Okay, generic Kelly Kelly, So everybody Kelly named Kelly.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yes, they are thinking. They just asked me this question,
and now I have to dig myself out of this
hole and get to neutral just to feel like I'm
on an even playing field. So what I tell my
clients is get in front of that story. As soon
as you sit down, and the first question is naturally
going to be tell me about yourself. You address that
(06:08):
before they even get there. He tell me, tell you
I have been you know, uh, previously I was the
VP of MX and Strategic Partnerships. I took some time
to do family planning. But these are the skills that
I've kept, you know, up to snuff with, and I've
learned all about AI. And this is why this role
(06:28):
is great for me at this time. Now, since you've
already addressed the elephant in the room, like they can't say, well, wait,
why did you take five years off? I already got
ahead of it. I already told you I took time
for family planning.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Mm hmmmm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
That's so smart. Okay, so that's like number one, right,
what's the what's a couple of other ones?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So the second thing I would say is have stories ready,
Like what are your I'm going to call them the
star stories, right, So what challenging situations have you been in?
What tasks did you do, what action did you take,
and what was the result. That's star and you should
have three or four of those. And whether or not
(07:09):
you've been in and out of the market, you can
go back into your stories and say, this is how
I dealt with conflict. Then I know times have changed,
Here's how my you know, here's how I've matured over
this amount of time, and this is how I would
approach it now. Logical thinking. Right, So even if you
have sort of quote unquote outdated experience, doesn't mean that
you haven't been living life and interacting with people.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
You could have been you know, heading up the PTA,
or you could have been on a nonprofit or whatever
you were doing in between that time, keeping yourself busy,
and so you can interject those things. But you should
have a bag of stories so you don't feel like
you're reaching or you or someone just kind of stops
you in your tracks and you have nothing to say.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
What if you? What if you? Or your story is
that I have taken I have just taken time off
to be a mom and raise my kids.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And that's fine, and say, the lessons that I've learned
as a mother has been, patients has been you know,
so you you completely narrate what you've built with experience
in whatever you were doing. So that's what I would.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Say, yes, even as a mom, like, look at all
the things if you sat and wrote them down and
thought it through.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
You're you're like the CFO of the house. You are
the chief Procurement Officer of the house. Right, you're the
chief operations officer of the house. Like, those are.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
All little skills, they truly are.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Right. You can multitask, right, you can delegate you like,
you can operate, you know, in a in a high
functioning way with multiple tasks, which, by the way, isn't
that a job?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah? It is, right, hardest job ever.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah. And the third thing I would say is that
I would I would be really really in front of
like your sort of brand like spoon feeding them what
you want them to know about you, right, Like, this
is what I'm really good at. Because the thing about interviewers,
right this, this sort of state secret, is that that
(09:09):
interviewer in front of you just wants to get some
of those headlines and pass them over to the next interviewer.
So as long as your story stays consistent, they kind
of give them the highlight reel of your experience, so
you move on to the next interview.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
M oh Keauz. They're a rounds.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Oh yeah, sometimes, oh there are rounds like, yeah, what
do you say, what do you see as the biggest
mistake women are making out there when they're searching for
a job post divorce?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, I think, you know, a couple of things are
especially when you're in this sort of like fragile moment
of you've now gone through something so personal and you
start bleeding your identity and your narrative between personal and professional.
It really does come through. And you know, I think
it is hard, and I don't you know, take it lightly.
(10:04):
Where you're going through something emotional, it's obviously going to
seep into like your energy and all of that. But
if there's any like way. For that half an hour
or forty five minutes that you can completely compartmentalize your
personal from your professional, it will be a very good thing.
And all you have to tell yourself is, like, listen,
(10:25):
it's forty five minutes that I do not have to
think about that, Right. And then it depends on like
who you're in front of. Right, if you're in a
creative profession, and if that is something that is kind
of fueling you or driving you, you can certainly talk
about it. But if you're going into a banking environment, right,
or private equity or whatever it is, and you know
(10:48):
they're buttoned up, you probably don't want to lead with
that or have that seek through in your conversations.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
You don't want to give them like your mom stories.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Only after they've fall in love with you.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, you gotta wait, so true?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
What?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Okay? So I know looking for a job can be
really overwhelming. I see how hard it is for my friends,
and I even see how hard it is for my
young adult daughters as a single mom. What things should
you be mindful of when you're looking and what should
be things that you should be a little more flexible
(11:26):
on during your search?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, you know, I think the biggest thing is sort
of a mindset. I would say you have to think
about it as if you are not starting over, you're
starting with receipts. So whether you're forty five or fifty
or fifty five, right, you have receipts. And that what
I mean by that is you have judgment, you have
pattern recognition, you have relationships, you have scar tissue, you
(11:50):
know what you're good at, you know what you're terrible
at too, by the way, yes, and so I think
you you what you should start by is what environments
bring out your best work? Right? And that and that
means like what can I still do? And then it's
also what do I want to do with everything that
I know now? Right? And sometimes it could be you know,
(12:12):
I actually tell this and and you know, yes this
this is great for your audience in that segment, But
if you actually think about the analogy of like what
do you tell your kids? Right? I have a son
and you know, look, coming from an Indian background, it's
always about like math and science. My son is not
a math and science guy, right, and so like for
(12:34):
me to push that and his father to push that,
it's like I don't I don't want him resenting us
for it, right.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Right, Right?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
And so I tell you know a lot of parents
of kids like tell them to lean into their strengths.
That same advice goes for women. What are your strengths? Like,
don't force yourself into I'm going to take this project
management job when you're not really till oriented.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
That's not for you.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Then you know, like you need to go somewhere where
there's more vision or there's more you know, unstructure or
whatever it is, right Like, you get to think on
your feet and you get to do all of these things,
and it's a little bit more in that vein. So
that's what I say about, you know, what can you
do and what are you really good at? And lean
into that?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, for sure, because this is you're making a big
decision as you move into this next huge phase of
your life.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah. And I think it's also scarcity thinking, right, Like, Yeah,
a lot of people are just kind of like, man,
I just need someone to give me a chance, right,
And that scarcity changes your behavior, right like you apply
to everything, you accept less money, you overlook red flags,
you don't negotiate, you tolerate bad managers, right like you
(13:47):
take the first offer, right, And we've learned that in
business and in real estate and all these things. Never
take the first offer, right, Like you have to negotiate,
and so like, don't sell yourself short just because you've
had this life event and that you think that you
don't have enough to offer.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Don't sell yourself short. It take some time, right, sit
down with yourself and a notepad and a pen, and
like talk yourself up to yourself, like make a list
of all of your accomplishments so far, Like yep, all
the things that you've done. I mean, when you really
do that and you go back and you look at
that list, you'll probably be impressed.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think that you know what, it's
also give yourself permission to reinvent.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Oh right, yes, right?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Why not?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah? You know, sometimes a marriage isn't the only identity
someone has outgrown, right, Maybe it's you know, you became
the flexible parent or the person who didn't travel or whatever.
And you might say, like, you know, I don't actually
have to keep making the same professional choices, right, Sometimes
(14:58):
you maybe were just optimized seeing your career for things
that don't exist anymore, Like and I know it's terrifying,
but like, hey, you know, if if you know Walmart
was founded by a forty four year old, why not you?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Why not you? You know, there's so many inspirational stories
like that, Like I think women should just seek those
out too, like pump it up, pump us up, pump
yourself and then just dream.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I would also join, like, you know, professional communities because
like women do love helping other women absolutely, you know,
And like I'm having a I'm part of this change
the Board Game initiative and we are bringing in women
that are that want to be aspiring board members with
current board members and it's like if you don't know
(15:45):
what it's like, like you need to be in the room.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You need to Yes, you need to be asking the
questions and curious and having people around you that are
smarter than you.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, that is honestly, Jenny. That is like number one.
If I if I gave any advice to your audience,
I would say, Okay, you shed this thing with whatever
was happening with your divorce, look around your neighborhood, your associations, whatever,
and level it up because proximity brings opportunity.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I love that proximity proximity brings opportunity. You guys, did
you hear that little nugget? Okay, what about a resume?
Which should people hire a resume writer? Is that even
a good investment or should they just be using AI?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
So I'm gonna say, I'm going to give you that
answer in two parts. Okay, I think AI is amazing.
I use every AI tool on the planet. So your
first draft thinking, you should definitely put into AI and say, hey,
this is all my stuff, you know, put something together
for me. Again, it's your first draft. It may not
capture the essence there are. And then the second part
(16:54):
of that is if you were just not used to,
you know, putting together a docum that is going to
pass the ATS or it's going to pass a recruiter
or the hiring manager test, then investing in someone that
can write your resume really well will serve you well.
Because the modern resume right now, and look, I've read
(17:15):
a million resumes right in my recruiter role. I know
exactly how I read them. Up top. I read it
like an f like up top and then down, and
then I might go back up and read your first
lines of experience. Right, That's how I read it and
now if you didn't know that, you wouldn't know how
to write it right, And a lot of people end
up putting their whole life story on there. There's a
lot of word salad. I'm trying to parse through the noise.
(17:36):
And the one thing that I will say is that
oftentimes you have to think about it like this. If
you are not clear about your experience, right, you are
now putting the burden on someone like me that is
reading your resume and trying to figure you out. But
guess what I have, Jenny, I have a day job, right,
(17:58):
and so it takes time for me to figure you out.
So if you don't have clarity and that document is
not clear, then it you know, you stop short of
what you really can.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Be right, and too many words is just too many words?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Sometimes word salad sandwich is like to resume?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Do you think that is? Do you think AI is
doing the first scan of most resumes that are submitted now?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
They it is, so a lot of companies use AI
scanners to just pick up some of the keywords. So, yes,
that is happening. It does reach a human. So I
don't want to have a you know, misconception out there
it does reach a human. I think some of the
larger tech companies rely a little bit more on AI
just because they're getting an insane amount of applicants. But
(18:46):
I would say, you know, for the you know, look
for the hidden jebs, look for the mid sized companies
or the smaller companies that are going to take a
look at you because they're going to need someone like
you know. I'll give you a perfect example. There is
a company here in Long Island and the guy was like,
I actually just like hiring moms. And you know the
(19:09):
reason for that is because they multitask, and they know
that they have to drop their kids off in the
morning and they have to go pick their kids back up,
so that nine to two time slot is like optimal
work zone for them, and they have to get it done.
They don't have a choice. And he's like, that's why
I hire them, right, And he's like, my entire workforce
(19:30):
are moms and we get everything done. So my point
is like, there are employers like that out there that
actually prefer that skill set, like prefer that that type
of person.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
You never know because you kind of think, oh, they're
not going to want to hire me, or because I'm
a mom, or because I'm this age, maybe that's exactly
what they're looking for exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So but you have to ask, and you have to
you know, honestly, Like I will say, you know, finding
a job is a full time job. It takes a
lot of work. It's going to be a lot of calls,
going to be a lot of networking, it's going to
be a lot of you know, resume sends, and it's
a volume game and you and the one thing is
you can't take it personally. And the reason why I
say that is because after this type of event, you
(20:13):
have fragility in your ego, you have fragility in your
emotions and all of that. So I am really conscious
of that. And the last thing you want is another rejection,
right yeah, And so I will say that treat your
job like a business and that it's just a numbers game.
And then until you find the right sort of you know,
(20:35):
chemistry and and you know job that's right for you
and the culture that fits you, you can then kind
of invest your whole heart in it. But like, don't
worry about the rejections.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Honestly, m yeah, you know, those just aren't meant to
be yeah, and you're absolutely better off for it.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I feel like every time.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, it's a sign I'm.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Don't believe that this is okay. Do you think that
women out there re entering the workforce are experiencing agism?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yes? Yes, I talk about this all the time in
my content, and I think that you know, it's there's
something about I'll say this agism is real, and I
don't want to give women like a motivational answer that
pretends that it doesn't exist. And I've been in recruiting
(21:31):
for twenty five years. You don't combat agism by trying
to convince somebody you're younger, right, You combat it by
making your experience incredibly relevant. So every time you experience this,
I always tell people, whatever you're thinking, flip it on
its head. Right. If you're thinking I'm not young enough
(21:53):
or I'm not this enough, right, you need to flip
the narrative of like, I have this amount of experience
that I can do this job in half the time.
When if you hire a younger person, and that's the
other thing women, when you're out there interviewing and you're
interviewing for a full time job, you know, and if
(22:13):
they start if you start feeling this red flag on
agism or like you know, don't you know? I would
say slip it in there and give that potential hiring
manager optionality, like, Hey, what do you need to have
done in the next three months? What is your biggest challenge?
I could do that on a consulting basis for you.
(22:34):
How does that sound. Here's my retainer? Right?
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Why are you.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Constrained just because you hire? You were interviewing for a
full time role and they start thinking, I don't know
if I can afford her, she's too experienced. Right, but
you know you can do that job, and you can
do it in three months. Give them a consult and
they can more than likely get that consulting gig approved
(23:02):
faster than they can give you a full time offer.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Interesting, that is a you know what? That felt like
a shark tank hack moment.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
That is my super hack. That is my super hack,
and it happens all the time.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
You are a shark tank of hiring. Wow. Okay, I
hope people really understood that because that's a good one
because you can feel in the in the I almost
said audition, you can feel in the interview what's the undercurrent?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, and then and they'll say things like, wow, you
have a lot of experience. What that's agism, right, that's
ages undercover agism, so and so. And it might be
unconscious to it. It might just be an unconscious bias as
soon as they see you or they read that resume.
And that's when I tell people that, like, listen, you
(23:54):
got to turn it around. You got to say, listen,
what about my experience can lend itself really well in
the next six to eight weeks of something that you
need to complete, I can do that for you. And
here's what I would charge.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
That is good. Know what you're gonna charge too?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Definitely, no way you're going to charge because.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
That's hard being on the spot like that, like coming
up with a number.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
But remember when I talked about, like, know you're earning
potential noise your worth, right, so like you can reverse
engineer talk to AI. Hey, AI, I used to make
you know, two hundred thousand dollars full time. This is
the amount of experience that I've had, This is the
break that I've had. Give me five comparisons of this
type of role in the market between mid size and
(24:37):
large sized companies. All right, So then it'll spit something
back to you and say, yeah, you're probably in the
two to two fifty range. All right, So let me
break that down into if I were to be a
consultant for three months, what would be my monthly retainer
wealthy poly, it would be ten thousand dollars a month.
That's what I would propose.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
That's how you use AI too people right to even
getting a job.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It's like exactly sir, for you, and now you have
thirty thousand dollars in your pocket while you keep looking.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Well, you keep looking smart. You're smart cooking. Okay, are
there things that you should leave off your resume until
you land that interview, like your college graduation year, so
(25:25):
you're not you know, compared, So.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Another sort of one of my hacks. Right, So, look,
I've been in industry for now twenty six years, right, almost
twenty seven. My resume is probably a page and a half.
I do not have graduation years on my resume, not
need it. You know what I'm good at, and this
is what I know. And I would say after the
(25:52):
first or after your last sort of ten years, everything
else should be kind of folded into like smaller points.
And I will say this to you right now. No one,
I don't care how much experience you have needs more
than a two page resume period full stop.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, nobody's going to read it if it's longer than
two pages, right, Like recruiters read resumes for about six
seconds oof literally in an f formation. That's like, you've
got to get it in the top.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah. I want to know your summary, and that summary, Jenny,
is like the killer thing. I want to know what
you do, how you do it, and what were your
accomplishments in the first couple of lines. That is what's
going to travel to the next person. Yes, then I'm
going to see, all right, well, how many jobs have
they kind of had, like what's their kind of experience set?
(26:44):
And then I'm going to look at that last job,
like your most recent job, right, I'm going to look
at that and I'm going to say, hmm, all right,
there's some metrics there. This is what they impacted. Here
are some numbers. They increased revenue by twenty percent, or
they saved us, you know, some costs by thirty percent.
I'm looking for numbers, and if you don't have numbers
on your resume, you're doing it wrong. And I would
(27:05):
say that. Look, why do companies hire anybody at all?
What are they? What's the what's the goal of the.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Company to fulfill a job, to get something done?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
To get something done? But why are they in business?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
To make money?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Boom every company. I don't care how mission driven they
are or whatever. They want to make money. So whatever
is on your resume, you need to follow the dollar right,
Have I helped the company save money? What are those numbers?
Or have I helped the company make money? Put those
(27:42):
dollars in. That's it. That's the resume.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
And what if you don't know, Like if you're coming
off of a job and you're like, I don't know,
how did I raise money for them? Or did I
did I move the needle?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
You know? And I'll tell you how you know? And
this is a this is my other I have a
lot of hacks.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
You got a lot of hacks.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So my other filter that I use is what I
call the so what filter? Three times? Okay, okay. So
what I mean by that is when you look at
your bullet point and you're like, okay, I created reports
for the finance function, so what Well my reports informed
them on what decisions to make from a cost cutting perspective.
(28:24):
So what well, those decisions led to forty percent cost savings.
So what well, forty percent cost savings increased our you know,
spend for next year's budget. That, right, there is the
impact you had by your little report. Right. That's how
(28:45):
you follow the.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Doll, You find it, sniff it out, That's how you
get there. The whole divorce process, I'm not sure if
you've ever been divorced, but the whole process can really
break down our confidence sometimes. Yeah, how do women regain
that when getting back into the workforce or even when
(29:08):
they're you know, on a job and they're advocating for
themselves or maybe they're trying to get a promotion or
raise at work. How do they get that confidence back?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah? I mean, look, I think that first I would
separate confidence and competence. Good idea, because divorce can absolutely
shake your confidence. I realize that it doesn't erase your confidence.
I remember when I was talking about compartmentalizing, That's what
(29:40):
I was talking about, And I think that, you know,
I wouldn't. You know, it's there's not enough platitudes in
the world to say believe in yourself. There's you know,
if you're gonna always get that. I think kind of
going back and doing a really reflective audit on what
have you accomplished, what have you survived? What are you
(30:02):
exceptionally good at? Right, and like all of these things
should rebuild your confidence in a way of like, man,
if I look back, these are things that I did
and you said that, right, Like just to really kind
of sit down. Remember you know, when you're younger, everyone
always used to say, before you make a decision, like
do a pro and calm list, right, Like it was
(30:23):
always like that, And so it's it's a little bit
of that, right and you and again you stop letting
that one relationship become the referendum of your work. So
I would say, even like these small wins, I would
I would literally have sort of a page on my refrigerator,
and any small win I would just start, you know,
writing it down. It starts rebuilding your confidence because you're
(30:46):
now kind of seeing it on the page of like,
should I mind it a lot?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah? You know, Oh I love this. I can't wait
for women to do these things and get proactive. We
got to talk about something very important, which is okay,
getting the pay we deserve, negotiating salary during the hiring
process is not easy. It's not easy for anyone. It's
I am not a good negotiator. What advice would you
give to a woman on how to effectively negotiate for
(31:12):
the pay rate she deserves?
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yeah, so this is probably my number one question of
all time. First of all, you don't have to be
a great negotiator. You just have to be really prepared, okay.
And so what I mean by that is you need
three numbers. You need to know what the market pays
right for that role that you're going for. So go
(31:37):
to flap store, go to levels Dot fy I, do
all of that research. What is the number you want
right and the number below you are prepared to walk away? Okay?
So those are the three numbers in your head floating
around when you are in front of that you know,
recruiter or hiring manager or whatever. The biggest mistake you
(31:59):
can is negotiating against yourself. So I always say the
first person that to throw out a number loses. Okay.
So what you want to do is like, you have
those three numbers in your head and you're like, you
need to ask them, well, what is the range for
someone of my skill level? And experience that you That is,
(32:20):
you know that this role will allow to operate for
me to operate at the top of my license, right,
And so when you say that, you're now saying like, hey, look,
I know I can operate at this level. You tell
me what I'm worth, and then as soon as they
give you that number, you can then say, well, actually, X,
(32:42):
Y and Z firms at this pay pay level is
at this level. So you now come with data in
facts versus emotion. The second thing I would say is
that you know I hate the open ended questions like
what are you looking to make? Right? You need to
counter that again, not with numbers, but like, I'd love
(33:04):
to understand the scope of the position, the overall compensation structure.
When you say overall compensation structure, you now have inserted
into their heads. There's more than just base salary. I
want to know about bonus. I want to know about RSUs.
I want to know all about signons. I want to
know about relocation assistance. I want to know about equity.
(33:26):
I want to know about all of it. Right, I
want to know how much flexibility I have that will
determine whether or not I will accept a lower base salary,
but a higher bonus if I could work remotely, right, Like,
so you're playing with all of these numbers, right, And
so I think women sometimes negotiate and then negotiate against
(33:46):
themselves because they are really uncomfortable in that silence, right,
Like they just want to be like let me just
let me just get it done, you know, versus like
it's okay to go back. They expect you to go back,
and if you don't go back, they're kind of like, oh,
you know, we kind of pulled one over her.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
So they expect you to negotiate.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Oh, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Okay, that's good to know.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
There's definitely gonna be some some recruiters that are hard
asses of like this is all we can do, right,
lead and he loves you, Right, if the company has
fallen in love with you and you are the lead candidate,
you have a lot of sway and you can go
back and say, well what do you think about a
sign on? Well what do you and all the things
(34:30):
that like those guys put you in a box for
of like base and bonus, like there's all these other
things that they can play with.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That is very good to remember because it gets it
can get emotional and then you just you lose your cool,
like you lose.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
And that's the thing. Plan it does get emotional because
for whatever reason, you start tying your personal worth to
your professional worth. And then it's like you almost make
it adversarial, right, and negotiating, And that's the thing. There's
like almost like a negative connotation to negotiating. It's like,
negotiating isn't fighting, right, You're not trying to beat the company, right,
(35:08):
You're trying to structure an agreement where both sides feel
good about saying yes.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I like that. That's a better way to look at it. Yeah,
much more positive.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Okay, we've talked about rebuilding your career or reigniting your
career post divorce, and yes, it can all be a
little bit scary, but there's also a lot of beautiful
things that can come out of it. Yeah, what are
some of the positive things that you've seen come with careers?
(35:51):
In chapter two?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Yeah, so you know, I've actually, you know, had at
our age, we do know quite a few people that
are in that situation, and we've had some very close
friends go through divorce. And I think one of the
sort of beautiful things that I think about if it
because I'm you know, eternally optimistic, right, is that the
(36:16):
second chapter for women is, you know, I to stop
building a career around who they were supposed to be
and start building one around who they actually are. And
I think that you know, women that come out of
this with clarity and agency, by the way, like agency, right,
(36:40):
Like probably in that relationship, there was probably a lot
of moments where they felt like they couldn't make their
own decisions, right, So you look at the positive of this, right,
like you're gonna have agency to make your own decisions
and support you.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Oh yeah, right, this isn't your said that is like
the but I love that word so much agency because
we lose it, we lose sight of it, we let
it slip slip away. Yeah, and this is an opportunity
you guys absolutely reclaim it and you.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Get to set new boundaries, right and big.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Ones whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Right, Once you survived your life blowing up a bit right, right,
like saying no to a bad meeting or negotiating salary,
it doesn't feel as terrifying, like you have to look
at it that way, right, And so I think you
discover that you can rebuild and I feel like that's
sort of the the positives out of this. I mean,
I knew a woman, a good friend of mine, who
(37:52):
really kind of didn't find herself in the marriage. Like
she was just kind of going through job after job
and she wasn't like he was making good money and so,
but you know, their chemistry had fallen apart or whatever,
and so when they ultimately did get divorced, you know,
it took her. You know, she was one of those
people She's like depa I couldn't even move the cup
(38:14):
from here to hear. I was just kind of depressed
and lost. And then when she finally came out of it,
you know, this woman like went on this sort of
I'm going to meet everyone and network everywhere and whatever.
And now she has like she started building these like
you know, wellness clinics and things like that because she
(38:37):
networked with some of these doctors that she knew and whatever.
It was complete departure from like those odds and ends
jobs that she had during her marriage. So it's like
it's honestly, and I don't say this with like the motive,
you know, the sappy motivational quotes, but like literally it's limitless.
(39:01):
It's literally limitless for you when you're kind of broken
free from.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Those school Yes, Oh my gosh, such important messaging. I've
talked about that before too, Like, don't look at it
as I'm aging or I'm aging out of things, or
I you know, think of it as I'm becoming whatever
the f I want to become. Yeah, because the only
person that is holding you back is you.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I talk about that all the time. Like,
you know, I talk about sort of like a what's
the difference between a B plus life and an A life? Right?
B plus is good enough?
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Right?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Intent I like a B plus right.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
B plus is fine? But if you have the opportunity
for a how would you do it differently? Right? I
mean like, look, I'm going to be forty eight this week,
my birthdays in two, thank you. I have never and
again I don't have you know, I'm married and all
(40:02):
of that, so I don't have, you know, the situation
that others do. But in the last eighteen months, I've
completely reinvented myself, even though I had something like normal. Right,
So I have my day job of being an executive
search consultant and running a global practice and all of that,
(40:23):
and then I started doing all the social media stuff
and now I have a media company and I have
ten employees and like I'm running around town and I'm
writing a book and all the like. I've never done
more at the age of forty eight, which is why
I say, like, combating agism is not a thing, right, Like,
you can do so much, you just don't know what
(40:44):
you're capable of until you try.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
You can laughing for that one. Oh, it's so good.
You are so wonderful. If people want to work with you, Depoly,
how do they do that? What do they need to do?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
So I'm known as the Elite Recruiter online on Instagram
and TikTok and then depolyviias dot com and we do
help people rewrite their resumes and get career coaching and
all of that stuff. And I have a fabulous team
handpicked industry experts. We do not I pick top level
(41:20):
people that have been in hiring decisions in order to
help people in a very real way because I don't
believe in like theory.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Gorgeous. Thank you guys, look her.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Up, Jenny, Thank you so much, and thank you for
letting me have my little fangirl moment.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Oh my god, no problem. I was happy that it was.
I was here for it. Thank you so much for
being on this pod. Everybody's going to love it.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Thank you, appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Nice to meet you too.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Are you newly divorced and getting your career back on track?
Are you having huge success with your career in chapter
two and you want to share your experience, Send us
an email or leave us a voicemail. All the info
is in the show notes. Follow us on Socials I
Do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love
(42:11):
is the main objective.
Host
Jennie Garth
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Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com