April 30, 2026 • 43 mins
When Gabe Perot’s life changed in a split second, nothing could prepare him—or his loved ones—for what was next. After a near-fatal electric skateboard crash, 18 days in a coma, and what he describes as an encounter with the other side, Gabe returns to share what he experienced, what he saw, and how it’s radically changed his view on faith, identity, and love. Host Ben Higgins dives into Gabe’s story, skepticism, medical realities, and the way one moment can redefine life and belief. Whether you’re curious or searching, this conversation opens up questions about miracles, scripture, prayer, and what it really means to encounter love.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Introducing Gabe Perot’s Story
01:12 Gabe’s Life Before the Crash
02:35 The Skateboard Accident
04:08 Flatlining and Coma Experience
06:39 Encountering Jesus and Heaven
09:02 Faith, Scripture, and Transformation
13:04 Embodied Love in Heaven
17:09 Seeing Prayers While in Coma
20:25 Community and Loneliness in Heaven
25:11 Returning to Life
27:29 Attachments and Radical Change
32:57 Handling Skepticism
36:36 Scripture and Prayer Afterward
40:44 Final Reflections and Advice
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I cracked my skull in half and flat lined and
(00:02):
was in a coma for eighteen days. He looks me
right in the eyes and he says, Gabriel, why are
you concerned about that which I paid for? He truly
showed me that he paid the full price of my
sin and my mistakes on that cross. There's not an
ounce of loneliness in heaven because you literally all feel
One told me my time wasn't up, and he did
send me back, and he told me, he said, Gabriel,
(00:23):
tell them who I show them who I am. Tell
them who I am, testify of who I am.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome to if you can hear me a space where
culture meets the soul.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I'm Ben Higgins.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
You may know me from The Bachelor, and you may
know some of my guests from culture and headlines, but
this podcast is about going beyond the surface into something deeper.
Today's guest is Gabe Poirot, author of Eighteen Days in Heaven,
where he shares the story of a life changing experience
he believes gave him a glimpse of Heaven and a
renewed sense of purpose here on earth.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I invite you to lean in and enjoy this conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Gabriel is joining us today on if you can hear me, Gabe.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Welcome Ben, Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Gabe. I have spent the last few days diving into
your story. It is one I think that believers will
find exciting, comforting, and I also think believers and skeptics
will also be cautious of and I want to dive
into all that today. I hope you're okay, kind of
like bridging that gap.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
No, one hundred percent. I'm so thankful to be here,
and I welcome the conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Now, just before we get started, if people are unfamiliar
with you, we're going to obviously dive into the story
that feels like the pivot point in your life, one
that is obviously I think going to surprise and enlighten.
But I want to start before that, before this incident happened,
that we'll dive into. Tell us a little bit about
(01:54):
who you were. I read that you were a Christian
yours speaking, I believe at the time, kind of fill
that gap leading up to what we'll spend the majority
of this conversation in.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, absolutely so. Before I cracked my skull in half
and flat lined and was in a coma for eighteen
days and saw the truth of the other side before that.
So before October twenty fifth, twenty twenty one, I truly
was living an ordinary life. I had actually gone to
gotten the faith degree. You know, you go to all
the churches and you learn all about faith and you
(02:30):
are claiming to know Jesus and you're really just living
an ordinary life. However, at the time, you know, I
was speaking, I had a YouTube channel. I would share
the gospel, and that was great, but there still were
a lot of you could say, gray areas in my life.
There was a lot of playing both sides, and so
(02:53):
it truly was a I knew a lot about faith,
but I was soon to understand the reality of faith
and the reality of the spiritual realm that I never
would have expected.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I have a bajillion questions off of what's about to
happen next, but let's dive into it. Obviously, this leads
up to a moment where there is a pivot point
or a transition in your life, but also an incident
that is horrific. Can you explain kind of what happened
as we get into then why you're here today?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah? Absolutely, So it was a sunny day. It was
about ten am, and I had an electric skateboard that
I would go out and ride with my friends. They
had one wheels. My skateboard was the boosted board. I
don't know if you saw it on YouTube videos and
stuff like that. Well it would go anywhere from fifteen
to thirty miles per hour at least, and I would
even race cars at times. I mean, there's truly was
(03:51):
no limits on the thing. And my other friend had
just went back home because he was kind of finished up.
But I told my other friend, John Michael, I was like,
you know, why don't we race? So we hooked back
around the curve of the road and there's just this
little light bump right in the middle, and I remember
I just I hit that bump and then I immediately
flipped off the board and I landed directly on my
(04:11):
head and my skull actually cracked in half. And I've
sent you over some of these photos, this medical evidence,
of these topograms that will show this was a true tragedy.
And immediately I actually I flatlined right then and there
my lungs filled with blood, vomit, blood was gushing out
(04:32):
of my ears. It truly didn't even have anywhere to escape.
My friend thought I was pranking him at first, because
he looked back and was just like, what in the world,
because my body had gone plank rigid, and he was
expecting me to just get up. He was expecting me
to respond. He was expecting me to come back to life.
But I didn't. I lay there as a plank. He
(04:54):
ran over, held me up in his arms, and he
called the ambulance. It got there nine minutes. They resuscitated me,
and then they I was in a coma, though still unresponsive, unconscious,
my brain had no activity. And then I was in
that coma for right around rough estimate eighteen days. Now.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Obviously this eighteen days is eighteen days in Heaven is
the name of a book that you were coming out
with on April seventh, Gabe. Let's just kind of start
with the elementary of all of this and maybe the
incident in itself, as you talk to the friend who
(05:37):
was with you in this incident and then obviously probably
called nine when one saw the medics come, what was
he hearing, like, what did he kind of experience during this?
I mean, I'm guessing he thought you were fully gone
and you were.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So I and I was, Yeah, So I wasn't able
to talk with my friend because I wasn't there, which
is quite ironic to say, right like, my body was there,
it truly was, but I wasn't there in fact. And
what was so wild about this is the way that
I'm even able to describe these details. It's part of
it is because I was I literally slipped right out
of my body, and so I saw my body though,
but it was from actually the third perspective. It was
(06:13):
literally from above, not just vertically, not just you know,
ten feet above, but I saw actually the spiritual realm
behind the physical. And I hate to break it to people,
but we are not just flesh and blood, we are
not just biological matter. But there actually is a very
real spiritual realm. And that's not even like a scary
disney Land phenomenon. It's a real it's a real thing.
(06:38):
And so I actually, as as I looked at my
own body, though, I just I knew that eventually it
was all going to be okay. And even as even
as much of a tragedy as it was, I knew
that it was going to be okay. And while my body,
you know, was practically lifeless. Who I was was pulled
(06:59):
up by this light and I literally felt like I
took my first breath in life, which sounds quite ironic, right,
but it truly was the truth. I touched a fabric
of reality that where the colors came alive like never before.
And even as I share this testimony, I didn't want
to share these details for a long time because I
(07:21):
knew people would be so skeptical, people would make fun,
people would even laugh. I knew that, but you know,
my experience was so real and my encounter with not
just this place. I know the title of my book
is eighteen Days in Heaven, but I actually went on
to discover that Heaven can't be described by saying it's
just just a location. This place is a person, and
(07:43):
this light that I was suctioned up to. His name
is Jesus, and that is who I discovered in my
time Eighteen Days in Heaven.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
This happened in twenty twenty, right, so.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Twenty twenty one, So this was October twenty fifth, twenty
twenty one, So this is almost five years ago, but
not even.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Five year I mean it's four it's a little over
four years ago that this happened. I mean, I I
hate to make I have nothing to relate with you
when it comes to this story that you're telling, like
it's powerful, it's I'm curious about it, but you know
in a sense, and you tell me here, But like
(08:22):
when I discovered, not when I came to faith, but
when I had an interaction with the divine. I can
only explain it as like the colors were brighter, the
birds were louder. There was like an excitement, a little
bit of a trembling in fear. There was like a
comfort still like something wild happened, like that transcended reality.
(08:46):
Even today, right that those those things have faded over time,
I don't have the that like euphoric kind of feeling
vivid morning. Yeah, that's the when I when I hear
you tell this story, that's what I think of my
own personal experience. Can you like maybe like, yeah, you
know for me, I said it faded, my love for
(09:08):
Jesus has not, but the feeling and the emotion has.
So how does this affect you today?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, and you know I totally understand that for me,
I still am. I it still is a very heavy
moment because it truly was it was the end of myself.
Like I discovered how in my own abilities and even
my own wisdom, you could say, you know, of course
I didn't need a helmet. I didn't need to listen
(09:36):
to anyone. I didn't I wanted to do what I
wanted to do, you know, like I discovered the end
of myself, but I discovered the start of Him and
the start of his grace. And so yeah, for me,
as I actually as I read the Word of God,
and I read about John's vision of heaven that he
had where he discovered like he had a really similar
(09:57):
testimony where even said this city that he would now
he was talking about the second Heaven, but he said,
this city has no need of sun or moon, for
the lamb is the light. And so I started actually
reading Scripture, and as I read Scripture, the memory of
my testimony would literally come back and be clearer. And
then that is why I only share my testimony within
(10:17):
the I call the landmark of Scripture, because ultimately even
the purpose of my testimony is not even to sell
a book. It's not to get clicks. The purpose of
my testimony is to point to Christ. It's to introduce everyone,
not to a religion, not to an organization, not even
to a set of rules and regulations. My heart is
that they would encounter him today, that they would know him,
(10:38):
not just know about him, but that they would know him.
And so that's my heart.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
You said in a previous interview that every part of
Jesus when you met Jesus, and I would love for
you to dive into that moment when you kind of
came to meet Jesus, that everything about Jesus communicated what
you can describe as I love you. The question I
have on that is, like, what does it mean for
(11:03):
for love to not just be spoken but embodied? Like
if the form of Jesus, it's himself like communicated I
love you, Like, what does that look like to you? Now?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah? For sure? Well you know, it was the same
I Am that Moses encountered, the pre incarnate Christ and
the burning Bush. It's the same I Am that Elisha
encountered when he was surrounded by calamity he discovered the
chariots of fire. But it's the same I am when
Moses struck the ground and delivered a nation out of slavery.
It's the I Am, And we find ourselves in I am,
(11:36):
and so here's what I discovered. So this light suctioned
me higher, and in my peripheral I was aware as
I was kind of just being almost like pulled through
the spiritual realm the first and second on my way
to the third heaven, I was just aware of like
this great chaos that's over this earth, and I actually
I just I slipped right out of that and then
I was just brought to this place of pure light.
(11:57):
Like it was like the light pulled me out of
all the darkness. And as I'm brought to this light,
all of heaven exists as his breath. His love is
something that even as you turn left right, you look
at the flowers and there's colors on the flowers and
they're so beautiful, and you just say love, Love is there,
And the flowers sing the leaves with the wind. They
(12:19):
sing Worthy is the lamb they sing? Worthy? Is the love? Worthy?
Is the King? Like love literally has a hymn in
this place. It's so beautiful, and I'm just like I'm speechless,
you know, because it's like it's such a it's such
a holy and heavy moment that I would even have
a chance to be before not just someone like this
(12:42):
is the one, This is the king of Kings, and
Alfa and Amega beginning in the end, the ancient of days.
And so I'm brought before him. And it was wild Ben,
because it literally was like he waited his entire life
just to be with me. Seriously, like my face was down,
and you know, like I don't deserve. I don't deserve
to be brought before him, right, Like I don't. Who
(13:04):
would I be that I would present my list of
right and wrongs as if I am going to waltz
it right into heaven and tell them my opinion, Like
I don't deserve anything from justice himself, like truth himself,
I don't deserve anything. But he looks me right in
the eyes, like he picks me up. He looks me
right in the eyes, and he says, Gabriel, why are
you concerned about that which I paid for? He truly
(13:27):
showed me that he paid the full price of my
sin and my mistakes on that cross. And as controversial
and as offensive as this might be, I really don't care,
because it was the truth that I saw, and I'm
going to continue sharing it as far as east is
from the west. He had purely paid the price of
my sin, and I truly was forgiven. And I clarify
that's not me telling people that it's just like a
(13:50):
free for all, Like, oh, that just means anyone can
live however they want to live, and it just doesn't matter. No, no, no,
they're mishearing me. You know, I'd placed my faith on him,
his gift, his forgiveness. But like I think we still
think of faith, and we still think of a relationship
with christis if we have to work towards him and
we're judged. We're judged based off of all of our
(14:12):
right versus wrongs, And people just don't understand, like if
you accept his grace and his love, you are not
because of what you do, you are because of him.
So as I looked at him, it was his love.
He didn't even consider loving me. He didn't think about it.
He didn't evaluate the list of my right or wrongs.
He loved me because that's who he was. It was
his very nature. Okay, So like it wasn't some of him,
(14:33):
it wasn't a part of him, It was him. Goodness.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I don't want to jump too far ahead, but I
think there's well, there's one really I think a question
is so many people will will want me to ask,
and then I want to get back to this. Where
we're going with this is so there's flowers in heaven,
is what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
And again, you know, people, if you just try to say, oh,
oh well, okay, let me look at a flower on
the earth, and then I guess that's how a flower
is in heaven, I cannot give that description. Okay, I
use the word flowers, but again, the plants and flowers
and trees and colors and every landscape of heaven that
I only saw one percentage of, by the way, not
(15:17):
even one percent. Okay, I saw a slight picture even
that even trying to understand them, you can't just accept
that they it's even like the earth, like Earth is
a small, slight preview, but even still, it's like Heaven
is to a thousandth of the definition, to a thousandth
of the quality. It's literally, It's why Paul said in
(15:41):
Second Corinthians, He's like, I know a man that has
been to the third Heaven and back and he can't
even put his his experience into description. He said, it's indescribable,
and I agree with him, like it's literally it's why
these interviews are still challenging, they'll forever be challenging because
it's literally indescribable. And we've always thought of heaven though
about all all the things, and we think about, you know,
(16:02):
are oh do I have a mansion? Do I have
a golden Rolex? Do I have a Bugatti? And it's
like people miss the whole point, Like even the things
in heaven are not about the things. They don't point
to themselves. Everyone is first of all, it's not even things,
like everything is alive, okay, So like it's not even
just objects, like they all live, but they live of
His love and they live of his glory and they
(16:23):
just point back to him. So it literally is all
one and it's just all about Jesus Man. And so
actually my faith was radically transformed because no longer was
my faith something I had to work for or get
to christ with or qualify myself. But it was actually
his faith in me that loved me. It was his
faith in me that died for me on that cross.
It was his faith in me that gave me everything.
(16:44):
And so like I'm not saved by my works, I'm
saved by by faith in his grace. But even my
faith is just a gift of his grace, of his love.
So it's like I am only because he is, and
he is in me, and I'm in him, and so
it's like and so you just that and census encounter,
and you know, he miraculously sent me back to my body.
(17:04):
And I could go into details about that, but and
it's all been medically verified. Doctors have even come out
publicly and said, we have no we have no reason
to explain why Gabe is even alive. They didn't expect
me to come back to life, and especially they didn't
expect me to come back with a memory, with an
awareness of things that were happening outside my own body,
with an awareness of how many people were praying for me.
(17:26):
When I came back, I actually looked at people and
I said, I saw your prayers. I saw your prayers.
Thank you for praying for me. Right, And it's like,
how does Gabe know that? There's no reason to believe
that that, especially when someone's brain has zero activity. I
had a traumatic brain injury. I'm not supposed to have
anything going on in my brain. Okay, so you can't
say that I was just imagining something or hallucinating, given
(17:47):
how my brain was literally in a natural coma for
three days, then in medical coma for fifteen days. So
you again like there's there's a timeline where literally I
was nothing, and so the only thing is whatever happened
to me was real. And the way that I know
it is the truth is because I have judged it
against scripture. Right, you know, if I came back, there's
(18:08):
a lot of supernatural encounters that may not be the truth.
But that's why we when we when we see it
points to Jesus, there might be something to say.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah, well, I mean so just for clarity's sake, and
I want to get into the kind of the coming
back into this world moment. But what you're saying is
you were seeing things even though you were in a coma.
You were seeing things and seeing people reaching out to
you through prayer, and you came back into this world
(18:41):
and said, hey, I know that you were holding me,
you know, buddy in your arms as I was dead
on the street. I know you were praying for me,
like you were seeing this happen.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And when I came back, I even would I would
tell uh, you know, everyone that had been praying for me.
I would go up to them and just tell them, hey,
thank you so much. I know you were praying for me.
Or when they would come to me and say I
was praying for you, I would say thank you so
much because I saw I didn't just see maybe like
specifically one person. I don't have a memory of like
(19:16):
person by person. But here's what I have a memory of.
It was all their prayers as one, and they weren't
just their prayers. It was quite wild. I saw their
prayers were actually a part of Love himself. They were
a part of even Christ himself. And when we pray
to to Christ, when we pray the scripture, we're not
just praying to him, We're praying with him. And people
(19:37):
don't understand that. Like He's about relationship. Man, He's a
very face to face Jesus now while we may not
see him right now, face to face like he wants
a fellowship. He wanted not just servants, not just creatures
when he made us. He wanted family. And so when
I did come back, I did share how I knew
people were praying for me, and I did thank them
(19:59):
as much as I think the doctors and nurses which
I'm so thankful for them, you know what I mean.
I've also thanked everyone that was praying for me because
I saw that reality.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Would you say, I mean to dive in a little
bit of the theological like clarity or changes that have
happened since this moment. You've spoken a little bit about,
you know, judgment, and in a lot of ways, what
you're talking about is that encounter with Christ. Would you
you know judgment? I think when when people hear this
in and outside of the church, think of it in
(20:29):
a specific way, you know, a judge bringing down your
verdict or accusing you of your mistakes. But I'm hearing
you say that this felt more like, I guess. The
word that comes to my mind, and again, through this
whole conversation, please always correct me, because I'm just trying
to keep up. The word that comes to my mind
(20:50):
is like an illumination, almost more than a criticism. It
felt like an illumination.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
It was an encounter. That's how I truly describe it.
It was it was eighteen days in heaven, but it
wasn't just a place. It was a person again. And
so with that being said, I saw I meta Jesus
that literally looked at me with the same exact love.
I thought something must have been mistaken in heaven. Seriously,
I was like, oh my goodness, something's something is going
on because he's looking at me with the same love
(21:20):
that the Father looks at Jesus. It's the same exact love.
And so I know we present this Christ as if
he's like up in heaven. And the reason I actually
tell people like he was the opposite of everything I'd
been shown or represented. First of all, he's not some
flamboyant soft guy to just go along with the flow.
(21:41):
He's not okay, okay. So we've presented like that Jesus.
We've also presented to Jesus that is like looking for
reasons to cast people to hell, and he just wants
to send all these people to hell. And like especially
social media, you know, there's just all these videos about
you know, oh that bars is going to hell, that
person like and we just so there's all these clouds
of confusion, right, well, I actually encountered it. Jesus, he
wasn't angry at me. He was angry for me, right,
(22:03):
And so he's not angry at the sinner. He is
angry that sin has captured them, and he paid the
price for their sin. And so it's not that we
need to qualify ourselves for him. It's not that we
need to quote unquote become a Christian so we make
it to heaven. It's actually Heaven that made it to us.
On the cross paid the price of our sins. He
became sin for us so that we could become right
(22:23):
with our father. And so I actually I saw that
it was because of his faith in us that he
paid the price for our mistakes. And so it's about
when you truly see him for who he is, you'll
actually truly find yourself. That's why people can never understand themselves,
people always feel alone, people who feel like nobody gets them.
It's because your only true identity can be found through
(22:44):
Christ and the Cross and at the end of your
own self. And so I quickly again discovered it's the
end of my own ambitions, it's the end of it's
the end of my own way, and it's receiving his
life for me, it's repenting of my own ways and
receiving his finished work of the court.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Gabe. So far, I think you just mentioned feeling a
deep seated feeling of loneliness. So many people feel this
loneliness and without Christ, their identity is you know, confused
or isolated. But the one part I would love you
to touch on is the community that existed for those
(23:22):
eighteen days with you. Was it lonely? I mean, I
think that's one of my biggest fears. It struck my
whole life feeling like an outsider and lonely, and being
lonely is such a scary idea to me and so
many So was this a lonely experience? It was the
first time I was never lonely. Ever, like I there's
(23:43):
not an ounce of loneliness in heaven because you.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Literally all feel one. So I recount my testimony all
about Jesus because I saw in him as everything like
even like even people ask me, well, who else did
you see and have? And in the eyes of Christ,
he did show me timelines and in I would say biblical.
(24:07):
It was like the Bible came to life when I
looked at Jesus. Okay, And so I did see timelines
of like Moses and Elisha. I didn't talk with them
or like actually you know, like see them face to face,
but I saw like the timelines like when Moses was
at the burning bush, and I saw when Elijhah was
surrounded by calamity and wildness, he was rescued like I
(24:28):
saw timelines like that. But that to say, when it
comes to community in heaven, it's not one family over here,
one family over there, another family behind. Instead, it literally
is all one family. Like there's no foster care in
heaven because we're all adopted into him. Like it's so beautiful.
There's no divide, there's no like tears of family. It
(24:50):
truly is. We all are one. We're of the same blood,
of the same love, and of course you still have
like of course in Hebrews twelve talks about the Great
Witnesses as and and that Greek there paints a picture
of their sitting in a stadium watching right, but they
don't The Great Witnesses is referencing those at heaven. But
they don't watch you through through the dim veil, and
(25:11):
they don't see you through all the shame and guilt,
but they see God's plan for your life, and it's glorious.
And again everyone in heaven just has a praise report
of the glory and goodness of God. There's not an
ounce of fear, criticism, critique, there's no loneliness you truly,
you're literally just one family and you're so together. It's
it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I think this is a good time to transition then
into the return. Obviously that is a moment walk us
through what happened when you came back here to this world.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Well, you you never want to leave, right and and
so it's such a real experience. He didn't even just
talk to me in English language. It wasn't just audible.
It was like heart to heart. And you know, even
like on this interview right now, we're communicating and you know,
we get to know each other a little bit, but ultimately,
especially digitally, I'm only going to know a small percentage
of you. As long as I talk to you in English,
(26:06):
i can, I'm limiting myself to a language. But when
Christ talked to me, it was truly heart to heart,
like there was no limits anymore. It's beautiful, and so
of course you never want to leave that place, right like,
once you're there, you never want to come back. But
he told me that my time was not up, and
he actually he revealed his heart that like that he
(26:27):
wanted to reveal his love to his family, and that
is his heart for all of our lives. That's why
he put all of us here on this eartha, so
we would be a testimony for him. And so he
told me my time wasn't up, and he did send
me back, and he told me, he said, Gabriel, tell
them who I show them who I am, tell them
who I am, testify of who I am and of
my grace, and tell them I'm coming back soon. It
(26:49):
was just such an urgency, such a passion, like he's
not angry at me, but he's angry for me. And
he's not soft. He's like a lion, truly, he's the
lamb and the life. He's not playing around, he's not
playing games, and he's passionately in pursuit of every person,
like wildly in love with them, with wildly in love
(27:11):
with every single person.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
It is.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
He's waiting on the edge of his seat just for
one more person to give him their yes and turn
from their own ways and turn to him.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Since coming back, then, say, you've already mentioned how hard
it's been to describe these experiences and words, but from
a you know, I think so many of us, like
even myself, and maybe this is my ego. I'm like, okay,
that's I don't want to die, Like I don't want
to have the experience of having my head smashed against concrete.
(27:44):
But your life has been radically changed from this, and
your experience in this world is so different. I'm curious,
like what attachments I mean, this was where were you
twenty one? So like there's obviously some like maturity and
growth that's happened the last few years too. You're married
and have a child. But what attachments have quickly or
(28:06):
sometimes quietly fallen away in your life since you know
this experience?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah? Absolutely so. As I was sent back to my body,
I saw myself just I saw Jesus answering prayers. And
even when prayers don't necessarily come to pass on the earth,
I saw that He actually gathers up every prayer we offer.
And so even if we ever do pray and we
don't see it come to pass right away, I tell people,
don't assume the story's over, even if it never comes
to pass on the earth, don't assume it's over. Like again,
(28:34):
we can't view life just through our limited perspective on
the earth, like, the story's never over. I tell people
that so anyways, but I was sent back to my body.
I woke up and just nurses doctors were stunned. And
I even joked, I said, give me my skateboard, let
me ride it out of here. But no, I saw
the skateboard. But I went on to completely recover and
(28:55):
gain back my weight even though I was half my weight.
And I still don't think people understand, like my brain
was mashed potatoes. Okay, I am truly not supposed to
be able to function in any manner. And even when
I did come back, they had already planned a therapy
place for the rest of my life that I would
forever be a vegetable. Okay, that's where I was headed for.
But even and even during my coma, they were talking
(29:17):
about me in past tense. I mean they were preparing
like they were like did he write a last will?
Like it was that level. Okay, And so when I
came back, obviously everyone's stunned, and but I just went
on to completely recover, and there has been some major change.
You know, before I would be so fast to tell
everyone scripture and slam it down their throat and and
(29:37):
and you know, like present Jesus as and and faith
as if it's like something they have to work up
towards and like they got to they got to pray
this way and they got to get this out of God.
And I even I had a background of of some
twisted things that that have really exalted and equalized. Okay,
if if you have earth wealth, then then that is uh,
(29:59):
that is like what God wants you to have all
the time. And if you don't have the earthly wealth,
then your life isn't going well. Like it was very
materialistic and that's so toxic. And so actually since my
encounter and since the years, as I have written down
my encounter, which again, by the way, you know, for
four or five years, I just like I wrote down
my testimony and I would share people on the bus
(30:20):
or you know, strangers, I would tell them about Jesus,
but like I didn't go into details. The reason I'm
going into details now is not to sell a book.
It's it's because I want to tell people more about
heaven because they I want to introduce them just to
Christ though right, like I pray they just go buy
a Bible today and encounter Him. But yeah, my life
has radically changed and I'm very fast. Now, I don't
even try preaching at people. I would rather just know
(30:43):
a person. I'd rather just be their friend. I'd rather
just love them and ask them how their day is going.
Like I learned, I could smile and preach more than having,
you know, a full on two hour Bible study with someone.
Like there's something about not just knowing about this love,
but walking in the love and introducing everyone to not
(31:04):
just a Jesus that does love, but a Jesus that
is love.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Game.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
I truly went from a religion to family.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I asked this out of a place. I mean, I'm
sure you've processed it, like why.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
You Well, you know, Ben, I'll never be able to
answer that question. And I still have processed my testimony
a little bit. But you know, can I be honest
with you, I'm never going to be able to fully process.
I'm never going to be able to put through my
brain and through a language actually what I experience again,
you know, just I kind of compare it to this
(31:46):
when you met your wife. There's a love that you
have for her that you try to put into the
English language. You know, I'm sure you do a good job,
but ultimately, like you can't describe the feeling you have
for your wife or for your baby. You hold your
your baby in your arms, and you have such a love,
right like. It's beyond the realm of just an English description,
right like. And scientists know this, scientists know there's eleven dimensions.
(32:08):
It's it's like explaining a three D world to a
stick figure on a two D piece of paper. It's like,
we do our best. So I don't know why me,
you know, I just I know that his grace. I
know he loved me before all the world's wherever put here.
He loved me before all of the creation, like I've
always been his. And so that's the other thing, Like
(32:29):
saying yes to him and turning from my own self
is not again working towards him. It's accepting what he
wrote about me, like he's always planned a life for
me and with me. So it's like turning from my
own self is just choosing to reject the false, sinful,
sinful nature that isn't who I really. Who I really
am is now found in him, not myself. See like, see,
(32:51):
but this is such a secure place that I discovered.
Now people make fun of me, people laugh at me.
You know, I was just on an interview, a two
hour interview with a guy who is just going in
on me, just you know, say that I'm a liar everything,
and ben I actually I was never bothered one second.
And he said, I don't I'm not. I don't believe
you went to heaven. And I told himself, sir, with
all due respect, that's okay, I don't. I don't need
you to. I pray you just read the Bible today.
(33:12):
I pray you just know Jesus. You don't need to
know me. You don't need to know about me. I
just want you to know Jesus man. And you know,
why are you sharing your testimony? It's like, that's my
heart's desire. So it's not even about me. So so
you know, people ask about me. I again, you know,
it's it's not about me, it's him now.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Skepticism obviously, I think anybody would say, hey, you have
to you've had to experience the critics and the skeptics.
Oh yeah, how how do you handle those moments? I
mean you just spoke to you. You said, hey, I'm
here to tell my testimony and my story. You can
(33:51):
believe it or not take it or leave it. Uh.
But I I'm also sin seeing a heart that you have.
I kind of want you, though, to hear it, like
I want you to believe this. So how do you,
oh you navigate those two? Yeah, dismissing and pushing aside?
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Well obviously, So I actually I welcome conversation. I understand skepticism.
I also understand supernatural claims, even the word heaven can
really be manipulated and just thrown out there to you know,
sell a book or get clicks or make your name known.
So I'm not bothered. And I understand when people have skepticism.
I again, I actually I welcome skepticism. And I actually
(34:33):
when I take people through my testimony, and I dedicated
an entire chapter in my book where I actually write
this out actually the end of my book. Literally, I
invite people take this testimony, take it back to scripture
for yourself, get alone, and you explore who Christ could be.
Open your Bible and only judge it against scripture, and
only receive what points you to love, what points you
(34:54):
to Christ, what points you to the truth. I'm not
introducing some special revelation or special gospel or this thing
all about me, like I again, it's it's the purpose
of a testimony, right is, is to point to Christ
and Christ crucified, And so that's why any of us
share any testimony we have and and so yeah, though
I will say, you know, I present the medical documents
(35:15):
and and I've actually never had anyone deny this is
a miracle, even the skeptics. Even the skeptics they even
admitted they can't deny that this is a miracle, right,
and so and then you get to the point, well,
if this was a miracle, if this was a supernatural experience,
if this experience led me to Christ, led me to
even a more real faith, led me to share my
(35:37):
love with my life lived now, then I guess if
this was supernatural and it led me to Christ, then
either it was Christ. And I'm just you know, doing
my best to put it back in the English language.
I may not be perfect, i may not be apostle,
but I'm just giving a testimony. Either it's that or
you know, a lot of a lot of people say
you saw a demon, and I'm like, well, demons, I
(35:58):
guess are very professional light evangelism and pointing to the cross.
Then so maybe we're gonna have to have another conversation
about their faith and demons. So truly, my encounters with
the skepticism has almost been I almost laugh because it's like, man,
they believe in in demonic power more than an angelic power,
so or Christ himself. So it's just, you know, I
(36:19):
embrace all skepticism, though, I just say, let's talk about.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
It personally for you without sounding heretical. Here, I hear this,
and I just imagine that my if I was in
your shoes, my relationship with scripture would have changed drastically
because you've had it experienced in reality and then you're
(36:42):
now back here in this world processing it through scripture
in it.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I don't know. I don't have this experience, but I
feel like it would almost feel less than if that
makes sense, like reading it on pages instead of experiencing
it and real I asked this to say, what is
your relationship with with the Bible been like since coming back?
And then what's your relationship with prayer?
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah? Absolutely, Well, I saw that the Bible isn't just
a book like the Bible is actually a person, and
so the Bible is living. The Bible, the Word of
God is alive and breathe and active, and so the
truth isn't even just words on a page. The truth
is Christ. And so actually now when I love first
of all, I love Scripture even more when I open
my Bible. Now I'm not opening a book. I say
(37:31):
good morning, Jesus, and I open my Bible and I
say it's like it's like thank you, thank you for today,
thank you for the sunshine. You know what, even even
if I had something go awfully wrong or I'm changing
like the tenth diaper with my baby, I just say,
thank you Jesus, thank you for the day you've given,
like thank you for the breath, because I just realized,
like everything is his grace. Like it's just such a thankfulness,
(37:54):
I would say, and so my but definitely my Scripture now,
like I open Revelation, you know where John encountered the
same Jesus where he said, you know, he encountered Jesus
that was said, I'm the first and the last. I'm
alive forever more. Hair is white as woolen, eyes like fire, right,
And I read that and then I'm truthfully, I'm just
like I'm brought to tears again. I remember my encounter
(38:15):
and I'll then for an hour just praise him and
seeing worthy is the Lamb like so I as I
read scripture, I'm reminded of my time with him and
it comes back to life and again. People mishear me
a lot, and I always make this clear. I'm not
introducing some special new revelation that like the like the
book of the Bible of Gabe, Like, I'm not introducing
(38:38):
any special thing. I'm pointing people to the scripture that
their eyes would be opened from scripture, like like this
Bible is not just a historical book. Like this Jesus
that they encountered two thousand years ago is still alive today.
He's not in the grave, and he is still working miracles.
He is reaching out his arms to every person right
and he's more than a place you attend on a
(38:59):
Sunday morning. He wants it all. He wants all of
our lives. What about prayer, absolutely well, you know there's
different the Bible describes. You know, there's different. You know,
there's supplic supplicating prayer, there's intercession, there's giving thanks. So
I've learned that that. But prayer for me, I don't
like try to, you know, like pray for a certain
amount of time like I need to pray for at
(39:20):
least two hours. I have departed from that. I've really
just introduced prayer to a lot more parts of my life.
As I'm driving, as I'm brushing my teeth, as i'm
and I just keep it so real. Obviously, there's a
respect and a fear that you have, a holy fear,
you know. But it's also like I could come to
him when I'm worried. I can come to him when
I'm stressed, I can come to him when I'm angry,
(39:41):
I can come to him when I'm frustrated. Like I
could just come to him because I Am never going
to have to qualify myself for him. I'm only found
in his grace. And so again that's why the Bible says,
let us come boldly to the Throne of Grace, where
we may obtain mercy and find grace elp Us in
our time of need. So and I tell people, you know,
(40:02):
come to him during the time of grace, because one
day this whole world's going to end. One day, one
day everything will fade away. And it's like you can't
count that that grace is just like you got to
say yes during the time of grace, you know. And
receive his grace.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
And closing moments here, Gabe, There's so much more we
could talk about, but that's why you wrote the book
Eighteen Days in Heaven coming out again April seventh. I
would love. I mean, I'm sure most of your interviews. Yeah,
hold that thing up. I'm sure the designing the cover
(40:41):
on that was not easy, trying to make sense of
what you went through.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
No, and it's wild. AI has already copied this, and
I have to tell people make sure you get the
real verified copy. If another book says eighteen days in Heaven,
you know, it's wild. There's like now ten books that
say eighteen days in Heaven, even though there's never a
book with that title. AI now like takes books. It's
kind of wild. So yeah, people make sure you're you
have the verified book all that you're ordering online.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Okay, and I'm assuming people can find that wherever books
are sold.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, wherever books are sold Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Walmart. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Final question for you, in final little couple of minutes,
if you were if you had ten seconds with me
and to summarize what you want to tell me as
a person, how would you what would you tell me
about this experience. How would you summarize it?
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Love paid the price of your mistakes. He died, he
was buried, and he rose again, and he's alive forevermore,
and he wants to live with you. He wants to
walk with you, and he wants to rescue you from
all your questions. So say yes to him today and
leave your own self, repent of your own ways, and
receive his love today and walk with love. Okay, follow
(42:02):
up question to you, how would I do that? Absolutely well.
The Bible says everyone that calls on the name of
Jesus will be saved. And that doesn't mean you just
throw out a prayer. That doesn't even mean you throw
out a prayer just to work yourself to him. That
means you make the decision in your heart to receive
his finished work on the cross, and you receive not
(42:25):
just what he did for you, but who he is.
He is everything you could ever ask for, a dream
or imagine. So you make that decision in your heart
and you call on his name out loud. You literally
just pray out loud, Jesus, I turn for myself, I
turn for my own ways, and I turn to you.
I receive your work. I believe on you and I
(42:46):
want to walk with you.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Gabe Piroh eighteen Days in Heaven Again. As Gabe said
at the beginning, he's not out to sell the most
books or more books, but he's here to explain his
encounter with anybody that wants to listen or read it.
Thanks for joining us today. I know you're it's a
(43:10):
busy time and I appreciate you sharing your story and
I'm glad that you're here with us to share that story.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
If you can hear me,
I cracked my skull in half and flat lined and
(00:02):
was in a coma for eighteen days. He looks me
right in the eyes and he says, Gabriel, why are
you concerned about that which I paid for? He truly
showed me that he paid the full price of my
sin and my mistakes on that cross. There's not an
ounce of loneliness in heaven because you literally all feel
One told me my time wasn't up, and he did
send me back, and he told me, he said, Gabriel,
(00:23):
tell them who I show them who I am. Tell
them who I am, testify of who I am.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome to if you can hear me a space where
culture meets the soul.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I'm Ben Higgins.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
You may know me from The Bachelor, and you may
know some of my guests from culture and headlines, but
this podcast is about going beyond the surface into something deeper.
Today's guest is Gabe Poirot, author of Eighteen Days in Heaven,
where he shares the story of a life changing experience
he believes gave him a glimpse of Heaven and a
renewed sense of purpose here on earth.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I invite you to lean in and enjoy this conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Gabriel is joining us today on if you can hear me, Gabe.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Welcome Ben, Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Gabe. I have spent the last few days diving into
your story. It is one I think that believers will
find exciting, comforting, and I also think believers and skeptics
will also be cautious of and I want to dive
into all that today. I hope you're okay, kind of
like bridging that gap.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
No, one hundred percent. I'm so thankful to be here,
and I welcome the conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Now, just before we get started, if people are unfamiliar
with you, we're going to obviously dive into the story
that feels like the pivot point in your life, one
that is obviously I think going to surprise and enlighten.
But I want to start before that, before this incident happened,
that we'll dive into. Tell us a little bit about
(01:54):
who you were. I read that you were a Christian
yours speaking, I believe at the time, kind of fill
that gap leading up to what we'll spend the majority
of this conversation in.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, absolutely so. Before I cracked my skull in half
and flat lined and was in a coma for eighteen
days and saw the truth of the other side before that.
So before October twenty fifth, twenty twenty one, I truly
was living an ordinary life. I had actually gone to
gotten the faith degree. You know, you go to all
the churches and you learn all about faith and you
(02:30):
are claiming to know Jesus and you're really just living
an ordinary life. However, at the time, you know, I
was speaking, I had a YouTube channel. I would share
the gospel, and that was great, but there still were
a lot of you could say, gray areas in my life.
There was a lot of playing both sides, and so
(02:53):
it truly was a I knew a lot about faith,
but I was soon to understand the reality of faith
and the reality of the spiritual realm that I never
would have expected.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I have a bajillion questions off of what's about to
happen next, but let's dive into it. Obviously, this leads
up to a moment where there is a pivot point
or a transition in your life, but also an incident
that is horrific. Can you explain kind of what happened
as we get into then why you're here today?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah? Absolutely, So it was a sunny day. It was
about ten am, and I had an electric skateboard that
I would go out and ride with my friends. They
had one wheels. My skateboard was the boosted board. I
don't know if you saw it on YouTube videos and
stuff like that. Well it would go anywhere from fifteen
to thirty miles per hour at least, and I would
even race cars at times. I mean, there's truly was
(03:51):
no limits on the thing. And my other friend had
just went back home because he was kind of finished up.
But I told my other friend, John Michael, I was like,
you know, why don't we race? So we hooked back
around the curve of the road and there's just this
little light bump right in the middle, and I remember
I just I hit that bump and then I immediately
flipped off the board and I landed directly on my
(04:11):
head and my skull actually cracked in half. And I've
sent you over some of these photos, this medical evidence,
of these topograms that will show this was a true tragedy.
And immediately I actually I flatlined right then and there
my lungs filled with blood, vomit, blood was gushing out
(04:32):
of my ears. It truly didn't even have anywhere to escape.
My friend thought I was pranking him at first, because
he looked back and was just like, what in the world,
because my body had gone plank rigid, and he was
expecting me to just get up. He was expecting me
to respond. He was expecting me to come back to life.
But I didn't. I lay there as a plank. He
(04:54):
ran over, held me up in his arms, and he
called the ambulance. It got there nine minutes. They resuscitated me,
and then they I was in a coma, though still unresponsive, unconscious,
my brain had no activity. And then I was in
that coma for right around rough estimate eighteen days. Now.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Obviously this eighteen days is eighteen days in Heaven is
the name of a book that you were coming out
with on April seventh, Gabe. Let's just kind of start
with the elementary of all of this and maybe the
incident in itself, as you talk to the friend who
(05:37):
was with you in this incident and then obviously probably
called nine when one saw the medics come, what was
he hearing, like, what did he kind of experience during this?
I mean, I'm guessing he thought you were fully gone
and you were.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So I and I was, Yeah, So I wasn't able
to talk with my friend because I wasn't there, which
is quite ironic to say, right like, my body was there,
it truly was, but I wasn't there in fact. And
what was so wild about this is the way that
I'm even able to describe these details. It's part of
it is because I was I literally slipped right out
of my body, and so I saw my body though,
but it was from actually the third perspective. It was
(06:13):
literally from above, not just vertically, not just you know,
ten feet above, but I saw actually the spiritual realm
behind the physical. And I hate to break it to people,
but we are not just flesh and blood, we are
not just biological matter. But there actually is a very
real spiritual realm. And that's not even like a scary
disney Land phenomenon. It's a real it's a real thing.
(06:38):
And so I actually, as as I looked at my
own body, though, I just I knew that eventually it
was all going to be okay. And even as even
as much of a tragedy as it was, I knew
that it was going to be okay. And while my body,
you know, was practically lifeless. Who I was was pulled
(06:59):
up by this light and I literally felt like I
took my first breath in life, which sounds quite ironic, right,
but it truly was the truth. I touched a fabric
of reality that where the colors came alive like never before.
And even as I share this testimony, I didn't want
to share these details for a long time because I
(07:21):
knew people would be so skeptical, people would make fun,
people would even laugh. I knew that, but you know,
my experience was so real and my encounter with not
just this place. I know the title of my book
is eighteen Days in Heaven, but I actually went on
to discover that Heaven can't be described by saying it's
just just a location. This place is a person, and
(07:43):
this light that I was suctioned up to. His name
is Jesus, and that is who I discovered in my
time Eighteen Days in Heaven.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
This happened in twenty twenty, right, so.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Twenty twenty one, So this was October twenty fifth, twenty
twenty one, So this is almost five years ago, but
not even.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Five year I mean it's four it's a little over
four years ago that this happened. I mean, I I
hate to make I have nothing to relate with you
when it comes to this story that you're telling, like
it's powerful, it's I'm curious about it, but you know
in a sense, and you tell me here, But like
(08:22):
when I discovered, not when I came to faith, but
when I had an interaction with the divine. I can
only explain it as like the colors were brighter, the
birds were louder. There was like an excitement, a little
bit of a trembling in fear. There was like a
comfort still like something wild happened, like that transcended reality.
(08:46):
Even today, right that those those things have faded over time,
I don't have the that like euphoric kind of feeling
vivid morning. Yeah, that's the when I when I hear
you tell this story, that's what I think of my
own personal experience. Can you like maybe like, yeah, you
know for me, I said it faded, my love for
(09:08):
Jesus has not, but the feeling and the emotion has.
So how does this affect you today?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, and you know I totally understand that for me,
I still am. I it still is a very heavy
moment because it truly was it was the end of myself.
Like I discovered how in my own abilities and even
my own wisdom, you could say, you know, of course
I didn't need a helmet. I didn't need to listen
(09:36):
to anyone. I didn't I wanted to do what I
wanted to do, you know, like I discovered the end
of myself, but I discovered the start of Him and
the start of his grace. And so yeah, for me,
as I actually as I read the Word of God,
and I read about John's vision of heaven that he
had where he discovered like he had a really similar
(09:57):
testimony where even said this city that he would now
he was talking about the second Heaven, but he said,
this city has no need of sun or moon, for
the lamb is the light. And so I started actually
reading Scripture, and as I read Scripture, the memory of
my testimony would literally come back and be clearer. And
then that is why I only share my testimony within
(10:17):
the I call the landmark of Scripture, because ultimately even
the purpose of my testimony is not even to sell
a book. It's not to get clicks. The purpose of
my testimony is to point to Christ. It's to introduce everyone,
not to a religion, not to an organization, not even
to a set of rules and regulations. My heart is
that they would encounter him today, that they would know him,
(10:38):
not just know about him, but that they would know him.
And so that's my heart.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
You said in a previous interview that every part of
Jesus when you met Jesus, and I would love for
you to dive into that moment when you kind of
came to meet Jesus, that everything about Jesus communicated what
you can describe as I love you. The question I
have on that is, like, what does it mean for
(11:03):
for love to not just be spoken but embodied? Like
if the form of Jesus, it's himself like communicated I
love you, Like, what does that look like to you? Now?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah? For sure? Well you know, it was the same
I Am that Moses encountered, the pre incarnate Christ and
the burning Bush. It's the same I Am that Elisha
encountered when he was surrounded by calamity he discovered the
chariots of fire. But it's the same I am when
Moses struck the ground and delivered a nation out of slavery.
It's the I Am, And we find ourselves in I am,
(11:36):
and so here's what I discovered. So this light suctioned
me higher, and in my peripheral I was aware as
I was kind of just being almost like pulled through
the spiritual realm the first and second on my way
to the third heaven, I was just aware of like
this great chaos that's over this earth, and I actually
I just I slipped right out of that and then
I was just brought to this place of pure light.
(11:57):
Like it was like the light pulled me out of
all the darkness. And as I'm brought to this light,
all of heaven exists as his breath. His love is
something that even as you turn left right, you look
at the flowers and there's colors on the flowers and
they're so beautiful, and you just say love, Love is there,
And the flowers sing the leaves with the wind. They
(12:19):
sing Worthy is the lamb they sing? Worthy? Is the love? Worthy?
Is the King? Like love literally has a hymn in
this place. It's so beautiful, and I'm just like I'm speechless,
you know, because it's like it's such a it's such
a holy and heavy moment that I would even have
a chance to be before not just someone like this
(12:42):
is the one, This is the king of Kings, and
Alfa and Amega beginning in the end, the ancient of days.
And so I'm brought before him. And it was wild Ben,
because it literally was like he waited his entire life
just to be with me. Seriously, like my face was down,
and you know, like I don't deserve. I don't deserve
to be brought before him, right, Like I don't. Who
(13:04):
would I be that I would present my list of
right and wrongs as if I am going to waltz
it right into heaven and tell them my opinion, Like
I don't deserve anything from justice himself, like truth himself,
I don't deserve anything. But he looks me right in
the eyes, like he picks me up. He looks me
right in the eyes, and he says, Gabriel, why are
you concerned about that which I paid for? He truly
(13:27):
showed me that he paid the full price of my
sin and my mistakes on that cross. And as controversial
and as offensive as this might be, I really don't care,
because it was the truth that I saw, and I'm
going to continue sharing it as far as east is
from the west. He had purely paid the price of
my sin, and I truly was forgiven. And I clarify
that's not me telling people that it's just like a
(13:50):
free for all, Like, oh, that just means anyone can
live however they want to live, and it just doesn't matter. No, no, no,
they're mishearing me. You know, I'd placed my faith on him,
his gift, his forgiveness. But like I think we still
think of faith, and we still think of a relationship
with christis if we have to work towards him and
we're judged. We're judged based off of all of our
(14:12):
right versus wrongs, And people just don't understand, like if
you accept his grace and his love, you are not
because of what you do, you are because of him.
So as I looked at him, it was his love.
He didn't even consider loving me. He didn't think about it.
He didn't evaluate the list of my right or wrongs.
He loved me because that's who he was. It was
his very nature. Okay, So like it wasn't some of him,
(14:33):
it wasn't a part of him, It was him. Goodness.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I don't want to jump too far ahead, but I
think there's well, there's one really I think a question
is so many people will will want me to ask,
and then I want to get back to this. Where
we're going with this is so there's flowers in heaven,
is what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
And again, you know, people, if you just try to say, oh,
oh well, okay, let me look at a flower on
the earth, and then I guess that's how a flower
is in heaven, I cannot give that description. Okay, I
use the word flowers, but again, the plants and flowers
and trees and colors and every landscape of heaven that
I only saw one percentage of, by the way, not
(15:17):
even one percent. Okay, I saw a slight picture even
that even trying to understand them, you can't just accept
that they it's even like the earth, like Earth is
a small, slight preview, but even still, it's like Heaven
is to a thousandth of the definition, to a thousandth
of the quality. It's literally, It's why Paul said in
(15:41):
Second Corinthians, He's like, I know a man that has
been to the third Heaven and back and he can't
even put his his experience into description. He said, it's indescribable,
and I agree with him, like it's literally it's why
these interviews are still challenging, they'll forever be challenging because
it's literally indescribable. And we've always thought of heaven though
about all all the things, and we think about, you know,
(16:02):
are oh do I have a mansion? Do I have
a golden Rolex? Do I have a Bugatti? And it's
like people miss the whole point, Like even the things
in heaven are not about the things. They don't point
to themselves. Everyone is first of all, it's not even things,
like everything is alive, okay, So like it's not even
just objects, like they all live, but they live of
His love and they live of his glory and they
(16:23):
just point back to him. So it literally is all
one and it's just all about Jesus Man. And so
actually my faith was radically transformed because no longer was
my faith something I had to work for or get
to christ with or qualify myself. But it was actually
his faith in me that loved me. It was his
faith in me that died for me on that cross.
It was his faith in me that gave me everything.
(16:44):
And so like I'm not saved by my works, I'm
saved by by faith in his grace. But even my
faith is just a gift of his grace, of his love.
So it's like I am only because he is, and
he is in me, and I'm in him, and so
it's like and so you just that and census encounter,
and you know, he miraculously sent me back to my body.
(17:04):
And I could go into details about that, but and
it's all been medically verified. Doctors have even come out
publicly and said, we have no we have no reason
to explain why Gabe is even alive. They didn't expect
me to come back to life, and especially they didn't
expect me to come back with a memory, with an
awareness of things that were happening outside my own body,
with an awareness of how many people were praying for me.
(17:26):
When I came back, I actually looked at people and
I said, I saw your prayers. I saw your prayers.
Thank you for praying for me. Right, And it's like,
how does Gabe know that? There's no reason to believe
that that, especially when someone's brain has zero activity. I
had a traumatic brain injury. I'm not supposed to have
anything going on in my brain. Okay, so you can't
say that I was just imagining something or hallucinating, given
(17:47):
how my brain was literally in a natural coma for
three days, then in medical coma for fifteen days. So
you again like there's there's a timeline where literally I
was nothing, and so the only thing is whatever happened
to me was real. And the way that I know
it is the truth is because I have judged it
against scripture. Right, you know, if I came back, there's
(18:08):
a lot of supernatural encounters that may not be the truth.
But that's why we when we when we see it
points to Jesus, there might be something to say.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah, well, I mean so just for clarity's sake, and
I want to get into the kind of the coming
back into this world moment. But what you're saying is
you were seeing things even though you were in a coma.
You were seeing things and seeing people reaching out to
you through prayer, and you came back into this world
(18:41):
and said, hey, I know that you were holding me,
you know, buddy in your arms as I was dead
on the street. I know you were praying for me,
like you were seeing this happen.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And when I came back, I even would I would
tell uh, you know, everyone that had been praying for me.
I would go up to them and just tell them, hey,
thank you so much. I know you were praying for me.
Or when they would come to me and say I
was praying for you, I would say thank you so
much because I saw I didn't just see maybe like
specifically one person. I don't have a memory of like
(19:16):
person by person. But here's what I have a memory of.
It was all their prayers as one, and they weren't
just their prayers. It was quite wild. I saw their
prayers were actually a part of Love himself. They were
a part of even Christ himself. And when we pray
to to Christ, when we pray the scripture, we're not
just praying to him, We're praying with him. And people
(19:37):
don't understand that. Like He's about relationship. Man, He's a
very face to face Jesus now while we may not
see him right now, face to face like he wants
a fellowship. He wanted not just servants, not just creatures
when he made us. He wanted family. And so when
I did come back, I did share how I knew
people were praying for me, and I did thank them
(19:59):
as much as I think the doctors and nurses which
I'm so thankful for them, you know what I mean.
I've also thanked everyone that was praying for me because
I saw that reality.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Would you say, I mean to dive in a little
bit of the theological like clarity or changes that have
happened since this moment. You've spoken a little bit about,
you know, judgment, and in a lot of ways, what
you're talking about is that encounter with Christ. Would you
you know judgment? I think when when people hear this
in and outside of the church, think of it in
(20:29):
a specific way, you know, a judge bringing down your
verdict or accusing you of your mistakes. But I'm hearing
you say that this felt more like, I guess. The
word that comes to my mind, and again, through this
whole conversation, please always correct me, because I'm just trying
to keep up. The word that comes to my mind
(20:50):
is like an illumination, almost more than a criticism. It
felt like an illumination.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
It was an encounter. That's how I truly describe it.
It was it was eighteen days in heaven, but it
wasn't just a place. It was a person again. And
so with that being said, I saw I meta Jesus
that literally looked at me with the same exact love.
I thought something must have been mistaken in heaven. Seriously,
I was like, oh my goodness, something's something is going
on because he's looking at me with the same love
(21:20):
that the Father looks at Jesus. It's the same exact love.
And so I know we present this Christ as if
he's like up in heaven. And the reason I actually
tell people like he was the opposite of everything I'd
been shown or represented. First of all, he's not some
flamboyant soft guy to just go along with the flow.
(21:41):
He's not okay, okay. So we've presented like that Jesus.
We've also presented to Jesus that is like looking for
reasons to cast people to hell, and he just wants
to send all these people to hell. And like especially
social media, you know, there's just all these videos about
you know, oh that bars is going to hell, that
person like and we just so there's all these clouds
of confusion, right, well, I actually encountered it. Jesus, he
wasn't angry at me. He was angry for me, right,
(22:03):
And so he's not angry at the sinner. He is
angry that sin has captured them, and he paid the
price for their sin. And so it's not that we
need to qualify ourselves for him. It's not that we
need to quote unquote become a Christian so we make
it to heaven. It's actually Heaven that made it to us.
On the cross paid the price of our sins. He
became sin for us so that we could become right
(22:23):
with our father. And so I actually I saw that
it was because of his faith in us that he
paid the price for our mistakes. And so it's about
when you truly see him for who he is, you'll
actually truly find yourself. That's why people can never understand themselves,
people always feel alone, people who feel like nobody gets them.
It's because your only true identity can be found through
(22:44):
Christ and the Cross and at the end of your
own self. And so I quickly again discovered it's the
end of my own ambitions, it's the end of it's
the end of my own way, and it's receiving his
life for me, it's repenting of my own ways and
receiving his finished work of the court.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Gabe. So far, I think you just mentioned feeling a
deep seated feeling of loneliness. So many people feel this
loneliness and without Christ, their identity is you know, confused
or isolated. But the one part I would love you
to touch on is the community that existed for those
(23:22):
eighteen days with you. Was it lonely? I mean, I
think that's one of my biggest fears. It struck my
whole life feeling like an outsider and lonely, and being
lonely is such a scary idea to me and so
many So was this a lonely experience? It was the
first time I was never lonely. Ever, like I there's
(23:43):
not an ounce of loneliness in heaven because you.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Literally all feel one. So I recount my testimony all
about Jesus because I saw in him as everything like
even like even people ask me, well, who else did
you see and have? And in the eyes of Christ,
he did show me timelines and in I would say biblical.
(24:07):
It was like the Bible came to life when I
looked at Jesus. Okay, And so I did see timelines
of like Moses and Elisha. I didn't talk with them
or like actually you know, like see them face to face,
but I saw like the timelines like when Moses was
at the burning bush, and I saw when Elijhah was
surrounded by calamity and wildness, he was rescued like I
(24:28):
saw timelines like that. But that to say, when it
comes to community in heaven, it's not one family over here,
one family over there, another family behind. Instead, it literally
is all one family. Like there's no foster care in
heaven because we're all adopted into him. Like it's so beautiful.
There's no divide, there's no like tears of family. It
(24:50):
truly is. We all are one. We're of the same blood,
of the same love, and of course you still have
like of course in Hebrews twelve talks about the Great
Witnesses as and and that Greek there paints a picture
of their sitting in a stadium watching right, but they
don't The Great Witnesses is referencing those at heaven. But
they don't watch you through through the dim veil, and
(25:11):
they don't see you through all the shame and guilt,
but they see God's plan for your life, and it's glorious.
And again everyone in heaven just has a praise report
of the glory and goodness of God. There's not an
ounce of fear, criticism, critique, there's no loneliness you truly,
you're literally just one family and you're so together. It's
it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I think this is a good time to transition then
into the return. Obviously that is a moment walk us
through what happened when you came back here to this world.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Well, you you never want to leave, right and and
so it's such a real experience. He didn't even just
talk to me in English language. It wasn't just audible.
It was like heart to heart. And you know, even
like on this interview right now, we're communicating and you know,
we get to know each other a little bit, but ultimately,
especially digitally, I'm only going to know a small percentage
of you. As long as I talk to you in English,
(26:06):
i can, I'm limiting myself to a language. But when
Christ talked to me, it was truly heart to heart,
like there was no limits anymore. It's beautiful, and so
of course you never want to leave that place, right like,
once you're there, you never want to come back. But
he told me that my time was not up, and
he actually he revealed his heart that like that he
(26:27):
wanted to reveal his love to his family, and that
is his heart for all of our lives. That's why
he put all of us here on this eartha, so
we would be a testimony for him. And so he
told me my time wasn't up, and he did send
me back, and he told me, he said, Gabriel, tell
them who I show them who I am, tell them
who I am, testify of who I am and of
my grace, and tell them I'm coming back soon. It
(26:49):
was just such an urgency, such a passion, like he's
not angry at me, but he's angry for me. And
he's not soft. He's like a lion, truly, he's the
lamb and the life. He's not playing around, he's not
playing games, and he's passionately in pursuit of every person,
like wildly in love with them, with wildly in love
(27:11):
with every single person.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
It is.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
He's waiting on the edge of his seat just for
one more person to give him their yes and turn
from their own ways and turn to him.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Since coming back, then, say, you've already mentioned how hard
it's been to describe these experiences and words, but from
a you know, I think so many of us, like
even myself, and maybe this is my ego. I'm like, okay,
that's I don't want to die, Like I don't want
to have the experience of having my head smashed against concrete.
(27:44):
But your life has been radically changed from this, and
your experience in this world is so different. I'm curious,
like what attachments I mean, this was where were you
twenty one? So like there's obviously some like maturity and
growth that's happened the last few years too. You're married
and have a child. But what attachments have quickly or
(28:06):
sometimes quietly fallen away in your life since you know
this experience?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah? Absolutely so. As I was sent back to my body,
I saw myself just I saw Jesus answering prayers. And
even when prayers don't necessarily come to pass on the earth,
I saw that He actually gathers up every prayer we offer.
And so even if we ever do pray and we
don't see it come to pass right away, I tell people,
don't assume the story's over, even if it never comes
to pass on the earth, don't assume it's over. Like again,
(28:34):
we can't view life just through our limited perspective on
the earth, like, the story's never over. I tell people
that so anyways, but I was sent back to my body.
I woke up and just nurses doctors were stunned. And
I even joked, I said, give me my skateboard, let
me ride it out of here. But no, I saw
the skateboard. But I went on to completely recover and
(28:55):
gain back my weight even though I was half my weight.
And I still don't think people understand, like my brain
was mashed potatoes. Okay, I am truly not supposed to
be able to function in any manner. And even when
I did come back, they had already planned a therapy
place for the rest of my life that I would
forever be a vegetable. Okay, that's where I was headed for.
But even and even during my coma, they were talking
(29:17):
about me in past tense. I mean they were preparing
like they were like did he write a last will?
Like it was that level. Okay, And so when I
came back, obviously everyone's stunned, and but I just went
on to completely recover, and there has been some major change.
You know, before I would be so fast to tell
everyone scripture and slam it down their throat and and
(29:37):
and you know, like present Jesus as and and faith
as if it's like something they have to work up
towards and like they got to they got to pray
this way and they got to get this out of God.
And I even I had a background of of some
twisted things that that have really exalted and equalized. Okay,
if if you have earth wealth, then then that is uh,
(29:59):
that is like what God wants you to have all
the time. And if you don't have the earthly wealth,
then your life isn't going well. Like it was very
materialistic and that's so toxic. And so actually since my
encounter and since the years, as I have written down
my encounter, which again, by the way, you know, for
four or five years, I just like I wrote down
my testimony and I would share people on the bus
(30:20):
or you know, strangers, I would tell them about Jesus,
but like I didn't go into details. The reason I'm
going into details now is not to sell a book.
It's it's because I want to tell people more about
heaven because they I want to introduce them just to
Christ though right, like I pray they just go buy
a Bible today and encounter Him. But yeah, my life
has radically changed and I'm very fast. Now, I don't
even try preaching at people. I would rather just know
(30:43):
a person. I'd rather just be their friend. I'd rather
just love them and ask them how their day is going.
Like I learned, I could smile and preach more than having,
you know, a full on two hour Bible study with someone.
Like there's something about not just knowing about this love,
but walking in the love and introducing everyone to not
(31:04):
just a Jesus that does love, but a Jesus that
is love.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Game.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
I truly went from a religion to family.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I asked this out of a place. I mean, I'm
sure you've processed it, like why.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
You Well, you know, Ben, I'll never be able to
answer that question. And I still have processed my testimony
a little bit. But you know, can I be honest
with you, I'm never going to be able to fully process.
I'm never going to be able to put through my
brain and through a language actually what I experience again,
you know, just I kind of compare it to this
(31:46):
when you met your wife. There's a love that you
have for her that you try to put into the
English language. You know, I'm sure you do a good job,
but ultimately, like you can't describe the feeling you have
for your wife or for your baby. You hold your
your baby in your arms, and you have such a love,
right like. It's beyond the realm of just an English description,
right like. And scientists know this, scientists know there's eleven dimensions.
(32:08):
It's it's like explaining a three D world to a
stick figure on a two D piece of paper. It's like,
we do our best. So I don't know why me,
you know, I just I know that his grace. I
know he loved me before all the world's wherever put here.
He loved me before all of the creation, like I've
always been his. And so that's the other thing, Like
(32:29):
saying yes to him and turning from my own self
is not again working towards him. It's accepting what he
wrote about me, like he's always planned a life for
me and with me. So it's like turning from my
own self is just choosing to reject the false, sinful,
sinful nature that isn't who I really. Who I really
am is now found in him, not myself. See like, see,
(32:51):
but this is such a secure place that I discovered.
Now people make fun of me, people laugh at me.
You know, I was just on an interview, a two
hour interview with a guy who is just going in
on me, just you know, say that I'm a liar everything,
and ben I actually I was never bothered one second.
And he said, I don't I'm not. I don't believe
you went to heaven. And I told himself, sir, with
all due respect, that's okay, I don't. I don't need
you to. I pray you just read the Bible today.
(33:12):
I pray you just know Jesus. You don't need to
know me. You don't need to know about me. I
just want you to know Jesus man. And you know,
why are you sharing your testimony? It's like, that's my
heart's desire. So it's not even about me. So so
you know, people ask about me. I again, you know,
it's it's not about me, it's him now.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Skepticism obviously, I think anybody would say, hey, you have
to you've had to experience the critics and the skeptics.
Oh yeah, how how do you handle those moments? I
mean you just spoke to you. You said, hey, I'm
here to tell my testimony and my story. You can
(33:51):
believe it or not take it or leave it. Uh.
But I I'm also sin seeing a heart that you have.
I kind of want you, though, to hear it, like
I want you to believe this. So how do you,
oh you navigate those two? Yeah, dismissing and pushing aside?
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Well obviously, So I actually I welcome conversation. I understand skepticism.
I also understand supernatural claims, even the word heaven can
really be manipulated and just thrown out there to you know,
sell a book or get clicks or make your name known.
So I'm not bothered. And I understand when people have skepticism.
I again, I actually I welcome skepticism. And I actually
(34:33):
when I take people through my testimony, and I dedicated
an entire chapter in my book where I actually write
this out actually the end of my book. Literally, I
invite people take this testimony, take it back to scripture
for yourself, get alone, and you explore who Christ could be.
Open your Bible and only judge it against scripture, and
only receive what points you to love, what points you
(34:54):
to Christ, what points you to the truth. I'm not
introducing some special revelation or special gospel or this thing
all about me, like I again, it's it's the purpose
of a testimony, right is, is to point to Christ
and Christ crucified, And so that's why any of us
share any testimony we have and and so yeah, though
I will say, you know, I present the medical documents
(35:15):
and and I've actually never had anyone deny this is
a miracle, even the skeptics. Even the skeptics they even
admitted they can't deny that this is a miracle, right,
and so and then you get to the point, well,
if this was a miracle, if this was a supernatural experience,
if this experience led me to Christ, led me to
even a more real faith, led me to share my
(35:37):
love with my life lived now, then I guess if
this was supernatural and it led me to Christ, then
either it was Christ. And I'm just you know, doing
my best to put it back in the English language.
I may not be perfect, i may not be apostle,
but I'm just giving a testimony. Either it's that or
you know, a lot of a lot of people say
you saw a demon, and I'm like, well, demons, I
(35:58):
guess are very professional light evangelism and pointing to the cross.
Then so maybe we're gonna have to have another conversation
about their faith and demons. So truly, my encounters with
the skepticism has almost been I almost laugh because it's like, man,
they believe in in demonic power more than an angelic power,
so or Christ himself. So it's just, you know, I
(36:19):
embrace all skepticism, though, I just say, let's talk about.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
It personally for you without sounding heretical. Here, I hear this,
and I just imagine that my if I was in
your shoes, my relationship with scripture would have changed drastically
because you've had it experienced in reality and then you're
(36:42):
now back here in this world processing it through scripture
in it.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I don't know. I don't have this experience, but I
feel like it would almost feel less than if that
makes sense, like reading it on pages instead of experiencing
it and real I asked this to say, what is
your relationship with with the Bible been like since coming back?
And then what's your relationship with prayer?
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah? Absolutely, Well, I saw that the Bible isn't just
a book like the Bible is actually a person, and
so the Bible is living. The Bible, the Word of
God is alive and breathe and active, and so the
truth isn't even just words on a page. The truth
is Christ. And so actually now when I love first
of all, I love Scripture even more when I open
my Bible. Now I'm not opening a book. I say
(37:31):
good morning, Jesus, and I open my Bible and I
say it's like it's like thank you, thank you for today,
thank you for the sunshine. You know what, even even
if I had something go awfully wrong or I'm changing
like the tenth diaper with my baby, I just say,
thank you Jesus, thank you for the day you've given,
like thank you for the breath, because I just realized,
like everything is his grace. Like it's just such a thankfulness,
(37:54):
I would say, and so my but definitely my Scripture now,
like I open Revelation, you know where John encountered the
same Jesus where he said, you know, he encountered Jesus
that was said, I'm the first and the last. I'm
alive forever more. Hair is white as woolen, eyes like fire, right,
And I read that and then I'm truthfully, I'm just
like I'm brought to tears again. I remember my encounter
(38:15):
and I'll then for an hour just praise him and
seeing worthy is the Lamb like so I as I
read scripture, I'm reminded of my time with him and
it comes back to life and again. People mishear me
a lot, and I always make this clear. I'm not
introducing some special new revelation that like the like the
book of the Bible of Gabe, Like, I'm not introducing
(38:38):
any special thing. I'm pointing people to the scripture that
their eyes would be opened from scripture, like like this
Bible is not just a historical book. Like this Jesus
that they encountered two thousand years ago is still alive today.
He's not in the grave, and he is still working miracles.
He is reaching out his arms to every person right
and he's more than a place you attend on a
(38:59):
Sunday morning. He wants it all. He wants all of
our lives. What about prayer, absolutely well, you know there's
different the Bible describes. You know, there's different. You know,
there's supplic supplicating prayer, there's intercession, there's giving thanks. So
I've learned that that. But prayer for me, I don't
like try to, you know, like pray for a certain
amount of time like I need to pray for at
(39:20):
least two hours. I have departed from that. I've really
just introduced prayer to a lot more parts of my life.
As I'm driving, as I'm brushing my teeth, as i'm
and I just keep it so real. Obviously, there's a
respect and a fear that you have, a holy fear,
you know. But it's also like I could come to
him when I'm worried. I can come to him when
I'm stressed, I can come to him when I'm angry,
(39:41):
I can come to him when I'm frustrated. Like I
could just come to him because I Am never going
to have to qualify myself for him. I'm only found
in his grace. And so again that's why the Bible says,
let us come boldly to the Throne of Grace, where
we may obtain mercy and find grace elp Us in
our time of need. So and I tell people, you know,
(40:02):
come to him during the time of grace, because one
day this whole world's going to end. One day, one
day everything will fade away. And it's like you can't
count that that grace is just like you got to
say yes during the time of grace, you know. And
receive his grace.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
And closing moments here, Gabe, There's so much more we
could talk about, but that's why you wrote the book
Eighteen Days in Heaven coming out again April seventh. I
would love. I mean, I'm sure most of your interviews. Yeah,
hold that thing up. I'm sure the designing the cover
(40:41):
on that was not easy, trying to make sense of
what you went through.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
No, and it's wild. AI has already copied this, and
I have to tell people make sure you get the
real verified copy. If another book says eighteen days in Heaven,
you know, it's wild. There's like now ten books that
say eighteen days in Heaven, even though there's never a
book with that title. AI now like takes books. It's
kind of wild. So yeah, people make sure you're you
have the verified book all that you're ordering online.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Okay, and I'm assuming people can find that wherever books
are sold.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, wherever books are sold Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Walmart. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Final question for you, in final little couple of minutes,
if you were if you had ten seconds with me
and to summarize what you want to tell me as
a person, how would you what would you tell me
about this experience. How would you summarize it?
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Love paid the price of your mistakes. He died, he
was buried, and he rose again, and he's alive forevermore,
and he wants to live with you. He wants to
walk with you, and he wants to rescue you from
all your questions. So say yes to him today and
leave your own self, repent of your own ways, and
receive his love today and walk with love. Okay, follow
(42:02):
up question to you, how would I do that? Absolutely well.
The Bible says everyone that calls on the name of
Jesus will be saved. And that doesn't mean you just
throw out a prayer. That doesn't even mean you throw
out a prayer just to work yourself to him. That
means you make the decision in your heart to receive
his finished work on the cross, and you receive not
(42:25):
just what he did for you, but who he is.
He is everything you could ever ask for, a dream
or imagine. So you make that decision in your heart
and you call on his name out loud. You literally
just pray out loud, Jesus, I turn for myself, I
turn for my own ways, and I turn to you.
I receive your work. I believe on you and I
(42:46):
want to walk with you.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Gabe Piroh eighteen Days in Heaven Again. As Gabe said
at the beginning, he's not out to sell the most
books or more books, but he's here to explain his
encounter with anybody that wants to listen or read it.
Thanks for joining us today. I know you're it's a
(43:10):
busy time and I appreciate you sharing your story and
I'm glad that you're here with us to share that story.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
If you can hear me,
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